HTF can an ambulance driver be legal for an HGV tanker
Because ambulences are big and heavy and require the same license as a HGV? It doesn't say anything about tankers.
I have yet to see a fuel tanker the size of an ambulance. Also an ambulance is not even the size of a Luton if that , it is in no way comparable to a fuel tanker and to boot you need special licence to handle fuel into the bargain. Sounds like any white van man can start driving ambulances.
Again, no mention of fuel tankers. This is just about HGVs, for which ambulance drivers have the necessary license to drive.
Bollox , they have LGV C1 nowhere near HGV licences
Indeed. But you can get dinky little 12 ton fuel tankers which you could drive with a C1 licence, so maybe they have a stack of those parked up somewhere?
HTF can an ambulance driver be legal for an HGV tanker
Because ambulences are big and heavy and require the same license as a HGV? It doesn't say anything about tankers.
I have yet to see a fuel tanker the size of an ambulance. Also an ambulance is not even the size of a Luton if that , it is in no way comparable to a fuel tanker and to boot you need special licence to handle fuel into the bargain. Sounds like any white van man can start driving ambulances.
Again, no mention of fuel tankers. This is just about HGVs, for which ambulance drivers have the necessary license to drive.
Bollox , they have LGV C1 nowhere near HGV licences
Indeed. But you can get dinky little 12 ton fuel tankers which you could drive with a C1 licence, so maybe they have a stack of those parked up somewhere?
Electorally the issue is the majority support removing the tax breaks from private schools, but virtually none of those who support that will change their vote because of it. Whereas there are lots of middle class centrists who would switch against any party proposing it.
Sadly that means tactically Labour should simply avoid talking about it as much as possible.
Actually 48% of voters support private schools keeping charitable status and their tax status if they partner with and help local state schools, with 67% of Conservative voters also backing them keeping charitable status on that basis, only 41% opposed.
Though 52% of Labour voters still back ending private schools charitable status even if they partner with local state schools
I am just finishing a journey from Kent to Berkshire and back to the island, and things look as bad as at the weekend
I've got no issue at all on my own fuel supply - it's people using the streets as queues on routes with no alternatives which is a bloody nightmare.
And of course when people get trapped in a queue they don't want, by the time they reach the front they might as well top up having paid the price to do so unwillingly anyway.
Ending charitable status for private schools will just reduce the number of bursaries they can provide and make them even more exclusive to the rich
That just proves that their core business isn't charitable.
The advancement of education is a charitable purpose under the Charities Act and the bursaries they provide through that charitable status provides that education to members of the public who could not otherwise afford their fees.
If their charitable status is ended then private schools will just become educational and sporting country clubs for the children of the rich
That is what they are already, with a thin veneer of do-goodery tacked on the side to deflect criticism.
HTF can an ambulance driver be legal for an HGV tanker
Because ambulences are big and heavy and require the same license as a HGV? It doesn't say anything about tankers.
I have yet to see a fuel tanker the size of an ambulance. Also an ambulance is not even the size of a Luton if that , it is in no way comparable to a fuel tanker and to boot you need special licence to handle fuel into the bargain. Sounds like any white van man can start driving ambulances.
Again, no mention of fuel tankers. This is just about HGVs, for which ambulance drivers have the necessary license to drive.
Bollox , they have LGV C1 nowhere near HGV licences
Indeed. But you can get dinky little 12 ton fuel tankers which you could drive with a C1 licence, so maybe they have a stack of those parked up somewhere?
But the letter isn't about fuel tanker drivers, which will undoubtedly require additional licensing. It's just about HGVs in general.
But as has been eloquently pointed out by Malcolm G, ambulance drivers can’t drive any kind of HGV. They’re qualified for light goods vehicles only.
Maybe the government is hoping to send out fleets of ambulance drivers in dinky trucks, but I don’t think this is going to do much to relieve our HGV driver shortage & we’re short on ambulances as it is aren’t we?
HTF can an ambulance driver be legal for an HGV tanker
Because ambulences are big and heavy and require the same license as a HGV? It doesn't say anything about tankers.
I have yet to see a fuel tanker the size of an ambulance. Also an ambulance is not even the size of a Luton if that , it is in no way comparable to a fuel tanker and to boot you need special licence to handle fuel into the bargain. Sounds like any white van man can start driving ambulances.
Again, no mention of fuel tankers. This is just about HGVs, for which ambulance drivers have the necessary license to drive.
Bollox , they have LGV C1 nowhere near HGV licences
Is it possible that some ambulance drivers might have an HGV licence as well? There are after all 1 million+ HGV licence holders in the UK
Ending charitable status for private schools will just reduce the number of bursaries they can provide and make them even more exclusive to the rich
That just proves that their core business isn't charitable.
Th problem that was spotted before when this has been proposed is that a number of private schools do more (as a proportion of expenditure) charitable work* than many charities.
So equity and fairness arguments would either mean that a regulation targeting private schools would get binned, or a number of other charities would get the chop.
*bursaries, usage of facilities for the community etc etc.
I have no problem with a generalised clean up of charitable status to make sure that tax breaks are only given to organisations that deserve them. I'm sure that private schools are only one example of this kind of scam.
Harris and Biden combined under 60% for the Dem nomination. Must be unusual, surely, for the pres and VP to be so low? Even the pres alone would generally be higher, I'd have thought? (I don't normally follow US political betting, so maybe I'm talking nonsense.)
HTF can an ambulance driver be legal for an HGV tanker
Are there small tankers they can legally drive? You need a C1 endorsement on your licence to drive an ambulance I believe - gets you up to 7.5 tonnes. (Ambulances are heavy vehicles!)
Checking my own licence - apparantly I can drive anything with a trailer where the total vehicle weight doesn’t exceed 8250kg. That’s a restricted C1E vehicle category.
Really not sure I’d be happy driving an articulated vehicle of that weight, but apparently I’m qualified to do so! (IIRC they took away that default sometime back in the late 90s early 00s?)
Absolute madness that being an ambulance driver only pays 9p above minimum wage if that site is to be believed. There's probably a recruitment crisis brewing under the surface - I wonder how many ambulance drivers are over 42 with the C1 category grandfathered onto their license...
HTF can an ambulance driver be legal for an HGV tanker
Because ambulences are big and heavy and require the same license as a HGV? It doesn't say anything about tankers.
I have yet to see a fuel tanker the size of an ambulance. Also an ambulance is not even the size of a Luton if that , it is in no way comparable to a fuel tanker and to boot you need special licence to handle fuel into the bargain. Sounds like any white van man can start driving ambulances.
Again, no mention of fuel tankers. This is just about HGVs, for which ambulance drivers have the necessary license to drive.
Bollox , they have LGV C1 nowhere near HGV licences
Indeed. But you can get dinky little 12 ton fuel tankers which you could drive with a C1 licence, so maybe they have a stack of those parked up somewhere?
But the letter isn't about fuel tanker drivers, which will undoubtedly require additional licensing. It's just about HGVs in general.
But as has been eloquently pointed out by Malcolm G, ambulance drivers can’t drive any kind of HGV. They’re qualified for light goods vehicles only.
Maybe the government is hoping to send out fleets of ambulance drivers in dinky trucks, but I don’t think this is going to do much to relieve our HGV driver shortage & we’re short on ambulances as it is aren’t we?
Oh wait, this is the Sun making controversy out of nothing again isn’t it?
quote: “Letters have been sent out to a million people including ambulance drivers”.
i.e. everyone with an HGV licence has received this letter.
Points to the government for at least trying something sensible I guess. This falls under the “can’t hurt, might help, is cheap so we may as well try it” column.
The only convincing argument I can think of not to hang this bent copper is because it’s quite likely he is responsible for other missing persons. And they’re not gonna get justice if he heads into the eternal abyss now.
omg, it never occured to me that there could be others.
It seems highly unlikely to be a first offence at his age, though perhaps the previous ones were less extreme.
Ending charitable status for private schools will just reduce the number of bursaries they can provide and make them even more exclusive to the rich
That just proves that their core business isn't charitable.
Th problem that was spotted before when this has been proposed is that a number of private schools do more (as a proportion of expenditure) charitable work* than many charities.
So equity and fairness arguments would either mean that a regulation targeting private schools would get binned, or a number of other charities would get the chop.
*bursaries, usage of facilities for the community etc etc.
I have no problem with a generalised clean up of charitable status to make sure that tax breaks are only given to organisations that deserve them. I'm sure that private schools are only one example of this kind of scam.
Yeah, but that's not what's driving this from Labour. For the most part they are very pro-charities.
HTF can an ambulance driver be legal for an HGV tanker
Because ambulences are big and heavy and require the same license as a HGV? It doesn't say anything about tankers.
I have yet to see a fuel tanker the size of an ambulance. Also an ambulance is not even the size of a Luton if that , it is in no way comparable to a fuel tanker and to boot you need special licence to handle fuel into the bargain. Sounds like any white van man can start driving ambulances.
Again, no mention of fuel tankers. This is just about HGVs, for which ambulance drivers have the necessary license to drive.
Bollox , they have LGV C1 nowhere near HGV licences
Is it possible that some ambulance drivers might have an HGV licence as well? There are after all 1 million+ HGV licence holders in the UK
...and all of them will get a letter from Government pleading with them to return to work, even the retired and deceased ones.
HTF can an ambulance driver be legal for an HGV tanker
Because ambulences are big and heavy and require the same license as a HGV? It doesn't say anything about tankers.
I have yet to see a fuel tanker the size of an ambulance. Also an ambulance is not even the size of a Luton if that , it is in no way comparable to a fuel tanker and to boot you need special licence to handle fuel into the bargain. Sounds like any white van man can start driving ambulances.
Again, no mention of fuel tankers. This is just about HGVs, for which ambulance drivers have the necessary license to drive.
Bollox , they have LGV C1 nowhere near HGV licences
Is it possible that some ambulance drivers might have an HGV licence as well? There are after all 1 million+ HGV licence holders in the UK
Including the Queen, I believe, from her time working during the War.
Ending charitable status for private schools will just reduce the number of bursaries they can provide and make them even more exclusive to the rich
That just proves that their core business isn't charitable.
Th problem that was spotted before when this has been proposed is that a number of private schools do more (as a proportion of expenditure) charitable work* than many charities.
So equity and fairness arguments would either mean that a regulation targeting private schools would get binned, or a number of other charities would get the chop.
*bursaries, usage of facilities for the community etc etc.
I have no problem with a generalised clean up of charitable status to make sure that tax breaks are only given to organisations that deserve them. I'm sure that private schools are only one example of this kind of scam.
Yeah, but that's not what's driving this from Labour. For the most part they are very pro-charities.
What happened perviously (under Brown at least, IIRC)
- propose removing charitable status - Lawyers point out that they would have to do it in a "equitable" fashion to avoid challenge. - Lawyer point out that this would catch a whole bunch of charities, a number of which were.... friendly to the Labour party - Charities go "WUT!?"
What proportion of a organisations turnover needs to go to actual charitable activities before you regard it as a charity?
HTF can an ambulance driver be legal for an HGV tanker
Because ambulences are big and heavy and require the same license as a HGV? It doesn't say anything about tankers.
I have yet to see a fuel tanker the size of an ambulance. Also an ambulance is not even the size of a Luton if that , it is in no way comparable to a fuel tanker and to boot you need special licence to handle fuel into the bargain. Sounds like any white van man can start driving ambulances.
Again, no mention of fuel tankers. This is just about HGVs, for which ambulance drivers have the necessary license to drive.
Bollox , they have LGV C1 nowhere near HGV licences
Is it possible that some ambulance drivers might have an HGV licence as well? There are after all 1 million+ HGV licence holders in the UK
Including the Queen, I believe, from her time working during the War.
I suspect that she hasn't kept it up to date.
I know a few posho County Set with HGV licenses for equestrian purposes.
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
There's a critical mass tipping point where queues stop being long enough to back up back on to streets, but until we hit that it's going to look and feel much worse than it is as every driver regardless of fuel need is going to get stuck in the queues.
Electorally the issue is the majority support removing the tax breaks from private schools, but virtually none of those who support that will change their vote because of it. Whereas there are lots of middle class centrists who would switch against any party proposing it.
Sadly that means tactically Labour should simply avoid talking about it as much as possible.
Actually 48% of voters support private schools keeping charitable status and their tax status if they partner with and help local state schools, with 67% of Conservative voters also backing them keeping charitable status on that basis, only 41% opposed.
Though 52% of Labour voters still back ending private schools charitable status even if they partner with local state schools
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
The excellent David Allen Green nails the law relating to today's sentencing exercise, and shows how carefully, and rightly, the judge went about his grim task, exactly:
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
Ending charitable status for private schools will just reduce the number of bursaries they can provide and make them even more exclusive to the rich
That just proves that their core business isn't charitable.
Th problem that was spotted before when this has been proposed is that a number of private schools do more (as a proportion of expenditure) charitable work* than many charities.
So equity and fairness arguments would either mean that a regulation targeting private schools would get binned, or a number of other charities would get the chop.
*bursaries, usage of facilities for the community etc etc.
I have no problem with a generalised clean up of charitable status to make sure that tax breaks are only given to organisations that deserve them. I'm sure that private schools are only one example of this kind of scam.
Yeah, but that's not what's driving this from Labour. For the most part they are very pro-charities.
What happened perviously (under Brown at least, IIRC)
- propose removing charitable status - Lawyers point out that they would have to do it in a "equitable" fashion to avoid challenge. - Lawyer point out that this would catch a whole bunch of charities, a number of which were.... friendly to the Labour party - Charities go "WUT!?"
What proportion of a organisations turnover needs to go to actual charitable activities before you regard it as a charity?
The Labour party are increasingly reliant on winning seats very unlike Hartlepool where Labour support in recent times runs alongside a quiet and understated use of private schools for one's own children, even though they would be very unsuitable for the wrong sort. Try Putney, Cambridge and Hampstead.
Electorally the issue is the majority support removing the tax breaks from private schools, but virtually none of those who support that will change their vote because of it. Whereas there are lots of middle class centrists who would switch against any party proposing it.
Sadly that means tactically Labour should simply avoid talking about it as much as possible.
Actually 48% of voters support private schools keeping charitable status and their tax status if they partner with and help local state schools, with 67% of Conservative voters also backing them keeping charitable status on that basis, only 41% opposed.
Though 52% of Labour voters still back ending private schools charitable status even if they partner with local state schools
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
"There's always been some stations at some times without fuel".
Electorally the issue is the majority support removing the tax breaks from private schools, but virtually none of those who support that will change their vote because of it. Whereas there are lots of middle class centrists who would switch against any party proposing it.
Sadly that means tactically Labour should simply avoid talking about it as much as possible.
Actually 48% of voters support private schools keeping charitable status and their tax status if they partner with and help local state schools, with 67% of Conservative voters also backing them keeping charitable status on that basis, only 41% opposed.
Though 52% of Labour voters still back ending private schools charitable status even if they partner with local state schools
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
Fuel might be OK near you (Nr Warrington iirc) but how do you have any idea what it's like elsewhere ?
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
I have just returned from town and neither the two local garages or Asda had queues, and as the Asda driver on our delivery said this morning that there was only one car filing up as he left on our delivery
It is clear that for parts of the country it is over but others are still experiencing problems
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
Agreed. Very patchy. My wife has just returned from the Hairdressers (open wallet surgery there), and tells me that Tesco petrol station in West Wales was very quiet, with fuel. Perhaps we won't need the Army after all.
The excellent David Allen Green nails the law relating to today's sentencing exercise, and shows how carefully, and rightly, the judge went about his grim task, exactly:
The excellent David Allen Green nails the law relating to today's sentencing exercise, and shows how carefully, and rightly, the judge went about his grim task, exactly:
That's really interesting. I was thinking it would have been a fairly easy decision for the judge. Not so. This bit is interesting:
Had the facts been that Everard had got into that car for any other reason than by use of police powers, the ordeal would have been just as terrifying, but it would not have ended with a whole-life sentence for the murderer.
Or had the murderer only been pretending to be police officer, and so was not actually using police powers, it may also not have ended with a whole-life sentence for the murderer.
Victims of other murderers will suffer as much if not worse than murderers caught by the whole-life categories, but their murders will get shorter sentences.
Personally, I'm not quite as outraged at the Met for this as others on here are precisely because anyone could have done what he did. The issue with the police is that it looks like they turned a blind eye to his prior behaviour.
Quite frankly, anyone who does this sort of thing should be locked up for life.
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
"There's always been some stations at some times without fuel".
Really??
I have to agree there. I quite often encountered locked off some pumps in some stations in the past. When I asked inside the till assistant said it was a common way of controlling demand, prolonging supply for a few more days until a delivery. And that was ina normal period pre-covid/pingdemic/brexite.
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back
The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.... ....If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.
I am just finishing a journey from Kent to Berkshire and back to the island, and things look as bad as at the weekend
Petrol is fine in South Yorkshire where I've been for a few days. Completely normal. Also noticeable is a big difference in mask wearing. They've pretty much ditched them up here.
Is mask use still a thing elsewhere ? Covid's over here for the most part. It's still at the vets, mind.
Certainly not in London, other than (around 50% use) on public transport. I wondered whether masklessness was a London thing, but it appears to be nationwide. Does anyone bother with them now, unless they are mandatory both de facto and de jure?
PB brains trust query: We're currently getting quotes for building work, substantial extension, probably be towards £100k, so we want it done right. Just had someone round to quote who is doing work down the road. A bit of Googling has revealed the company in question was incorporated in 2020 and the person we spoke to (owner) had a previous building company which underwent creditors voluntary liquidation in 2020 at around the same time. We'll obviously ask about this if we consider going further, but is it - on the face of it - sketchy? Or might there be quite innocuous explanations?
(We just got this guy in as an 'extra' quote really - already had builder round who did a big extension for sister-in-law and have a couple more reccommended by architect, but they're proving hard to pin down. We want at least a few quotes to compare, but would most likely go for the guy we know most about unless there are good reasons to choose someone else)
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
And according to the PRA three quarters of their members have fuel.
I couldn't care less what other countries are doing.
If some parts of the country people are still hoarding fuel they need to grow up and stop doing that.
I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back
The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.... ....If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
"There's always been some stations at some times without fuel".
Really??
I have to agree there. I quite often encountered locked off some pumps in some stations in the past. When I asked inside the till assistant said it was a common way of controlling demand, prolonging supply for a few more days until a delivery. And that was ina normal period pre-covid/pingdemic/brexite.
Some pumps, yes. Entire stations without fuel weren't so common, let alone a signifigant fraction of the nation's stations.
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
Honestly, if this were happening in, say, France, don't you think PT would be having a field day? Well, I'm pretty sure that PT's French counterpart is laughing his stripy socks off at the moment.
PB brains trust query: We're currently getting quotes for building work, substantial extension, probably be towards £100k, so we want it done right. Just had someone round to quote who is doing work down the road. A bit of Googling has revealed the company in question was incorporated in 2020 and the person we spoke to (owner) had a previous building company which underwent creditors voluntary liquidation in 2020 at around the same time. We'll obviously ask about this if we consider going further, but is it - on the face of it - sketchy? Or might there be quite innocuous explanations?
(We just got this guy in as an 'extra' quote really - already had builder round who did a big extension for sister-in-law and have a couple more reccommended by architect, but they're proving hard to pin down. We want at least a few quotes to compare, but would most likely go for the guy we know most about unless there are good reasons to choose someone else)
Hmmmmm
Not especially good sounding - how long was the previous company running for?
Yes, constructive bankruptcies are a standard operating procedure for a certain type.
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
Sorry to go off topic but remember the police tried to fit up a serving cabinet minister.
As a couple of cabinet ministers at the time said 'If they can try and fit us up what chance does a black kid in Brixton have?'
Police need taking down a peg or five, starting with Cressida Dick.
Also fire every cop who cannot pass a DBS. If you cannot be a PCC with a criminal record then you shouldn't be a copper with a criminal record.
Police officers aren't routinely DBS checked?
Wha'daff?
I remember a while ago a decision by Sadiq Khan to not make criminal conviction a bar to becoming a Met officer as it harmed "diversity".
You could imagine really minor crimes done as a kid being ignored.
Is there a time limit on convictions in DBS checks ?
My ex colleague's £100k+ fraud seems to have completely disappeared from Google, and perhaps any DBS checks..
Nope.
There's two types of DBS checks, both will show past convictions and cautions, the enhanced one will show any cases where convictions didn't happen.
For teacher training there is no time limit. Everything remains. Even under 18, so I am told.
Indeed. Always found it ironic when the rozzers came round to speak at my kid's school. Quite a few of them wouldn’t have been allowed in the building but for their uniform.
I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back
The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.
This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.
She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.
Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.
They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.
Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.
Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....
...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.
This is the problem.
This is the culture we have to deal with.
THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.
P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.
The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.
Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today
If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.
I am just finishing a journey from Kent to Berkshire and back to the island, and things look as bad as at the weekend
Petrol is fine in South Yorkshire where I've been for a few days. Completely normal. Also noticeable is a big difference in mask wearing. They've pretty much ditched them up here.
Is mask use still a thing elsewhere ? Covid's over here for the most part. It's still at the vets, mind.
Certainly not in London, other than (around 50% use) on public transport. I wondered whether masklessness was a London thing, but it appears to be nationwide. Does anyone bother with them now, unless they are mandatory both de facto and de jure?
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
Honestly, if this were happening in, say, France, don't you think PT would be having a field day? Well, I'm pretty sure that PT's French counterpart is laughing his stripy socks off at the moment.
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
I absolutely can say that.
The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc
I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.
I am just finishing a journey from Kent to Berkshire and back to the island, and things look as bad as at the weekend
Petrol is fine in South Yorkshire where I've been for a few days. Completely normal. Also noticeable is a big difference in mask wearing. They've pretty much ditched them up here.
Is mask use still a thing elsewhere ? Covid's over here for the most part. It's still at the vets, mind.
Certainly not in London, other than (around 50% use) on public transport. I wondered whether masklessness was a London thing, but it appears to be nationwide. Does anyone bother with them now, unless they are mandatory both de facto and de jure?
I don't bother. Haven't since the law went.
I only wear one when a train is really busy. As I rarely travel at peak time nowadays, that's rare and there's usually only a few people in the carriage, half of which aren't wearing a mask anyway.
Many of your posts on this concern the failings within the police force for what must have clearly been a bad apple the ranks were closed around? But is there not a problem in wider society outside the police, making this horrendous crime by man on woman far from a one of?
So what is our way forward cyclefree? You likely have every single man in the country other than Wayne Couzens upset and angry toward this most warped, most selfish and brutal man. What effective action can now be taken, or education and guidance taken on board?
If he is just a rotten apple in a barrel, a bad egg, do we regard it as important still for boys to be allowed to be boys, and girls should welcome what is hardcoded into their DNA too? As per the current and traditional teaching, To become a man a boy needs to know how to have a presence, how to have a power - and their courage must never be demeaned by anybody?
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
Honestly, if this were happening in, say, France, don't you think PT would be having a field day? Well, I'm pretty sure that PT's French counterpart is laughing his stripy socks off at the moment.
PB brains trust query: We're currently getting quotes for building work, substantial extension, probably be towards £100k, so we want it done right. Just had someone round to quote who is doing work down the road. A bit of Googling has revealed the company in question was incorporated in 2020 and the person we spoke to (owner) had a previous building company which underwent creditors voluntary liquidation in 2020 at around the same time. We'll obviously ask about this if we consider going further, but is it - on the face of it - sketchy? Or might there be quite innocuous explanations?
(We just got this guy in as an 'extra' quote really - already had builder round who did a big extension for sister-in-law and have a couple more reccommended by architect, but they're proving hard to pin down. We want at least a few quotes to compare, but would most likely go for the guy we know most about unless there are good reasons to choose someone else)
Hmmmmm
Not especially good sounding - how long was the previous company running for?
Yes, constructive bankruptcies are a standard operating procedure for a certain type.
Previous co was running ~5 years. Will have a good look through the filings...
I am just finishing a journey from Kent to Berkshire and back to the island, and things look as bad as at the weekend
Petrol is fine in South Yorkshire where I've been for a few days. Completely normal. Also noticeable is a big difference in mask wearing. They've pretty much ditched them up here.
Is mask use still a thing elsewhere ? Covid's over here for the most part. It's still at the vets, mind.
Certainly not in London, other than (around 50% use) on public transport. I wondered whether masklessness was a London thing, but it appears to be nationwide. Does anyone bother with them now, unless they are mandatory both de facto and de jure?
I don't bother. Haven't since the law went.
I only wear one when a train is really busy. As I rarely travel at peak time nowadays, that's rare and there's usually only a few people in the carriage, half of which aren't wearing a mask anyway.
I wear mine all the time. I’ll probably wear it forever now, how exactly to make the decision between safe and not safe enough?
I even wear it in bed sometimes, just to be extra sure.
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
Honestly, if this were happening in, say, France, don't you think PT would be having a field day? Well, I'm pretty sure that PT's French counterpart is laughing his stripy socks off at the moment.
Ending charitable status for private schools will just reduce the number of bursaries they can provide and make them even more exclusive to the rich
That just proves that their core business isn't charitable.
Th problem that was spotted before when this has been proposed is that a number of private schools do more (as a proportion of expenditure) charitable work* than many charities.
So equity and fairness arguments would either mean that a regulation targeting private schools would get binned, or a number of other charities would get the chop.
*bursaries, usage of facilities for the community etc etc.
I have no problem with a generalised clean up of charitable status to make sure that tax breaks are only given to organisations that deserve them. I'm sure that private schools are only one example of this kind of scam.
A pleasant surprise to see Labour keep that policy - ending private schools tax breaks. I thought it might be ditched for fear of 'class war' or 'politics of envy' optics.
PB brains trust query: We're currently getting quotes for building work, substantial extension, probably be towards £100k, so we want it done right. Just had someone round to quote who is doing work down the road. A bit of Googling has revealed the company in question was incorporated in 2020 and the person we spoke to (owner) had a previous building company which underwent creditors voluntary liquidation in 2020 at around the same time. We'll obviously ask about this if we consider going further, but is it - on the face of it - sketchy? Or might there be quite innocuous explanations?
(We just got this guy in as an 'extra' quote really - already had builder round who did a big extension for sister-in-law and have a couple more reccommended by architect, but they're proving hard to pin down. We want at least a few quotes to compare, but would most likely go for the guy we know most about unless there are good reasons to choose someone else)
Hmmmmm
Not especially good sounding - how long was the previous company running for?
Yes, constructive bankruptcies are a standard operating procedure for a certain type.
Previous co was running ~5 years. Will have a good look through the filings...
Could be a clearing up of financial problems. The other thing to check for is legal trouble. The higher you go in the building trade, the more common the lawsuits.
At the multi-million level, the builders assume that they will be sued and budget accordingly...
I am just finishing a journey from Kent to Berkshire and back to the island, and things look as bad as at the weekend
Petrol is fine in South Yorkshire where I've been for a few days. Completely normal. Also noticeable is a big difference in mask wearing. They've pretty much ditched them up here.
Is mask use still a thing elsewhere ? Covid's over here for the most part. It's still at the vets, mind.
Certainly not in London, other than (around 50% use) on public transport. I wondered whether masklessness was a London thing, but it appears to be nationwide. Does anyone bother with them now, unless they are mandatory both de facto and de jure?
I don't bother. Haven't since the law went.
I only wear one when a train is really busy. As I rarely travel at peak time nowadays, that's rare and there's usually only a few people in the carriage, half of which aren't wearing a mask anyway.
I wear mine all the time. I’ll probably wear it forever now, how exactly to make the decision between safe and not safe enough?
I even wear it in bed sometimes, just to be extra sure.
....hmmm but are the lederhosen and harness really necessary..?
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
"improved overall" != "all over"
Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
Honestly, if this were happening in, say, France, don't you think PT would be having a field day? Well, I'm pretty sure that PT's French counterpart is laughing his stripy socks off at the moment.
To be honest I think France and other countries have mountains of problems of their own, but it really does not bother me if they want to obsess about the UK
They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
I have just returned from town and neither the two local garages or Asda had queues, and as the Asda driver on our delivery said this morning that there was only one car filing up as he left on our delivery
It is clear that for parts of the country it is over but others are still experiencing problems
This thing started because a small area of (I think) Kent had some delivery issues that led to 20 BP garages running out. Some inflammatory reporting and BINGO! soon you have people queuing "because other people are queuing...."
Have people in the UK abandoned public transport? Presumably the wfh trend is persisting.
Tube in London is full(ish) at commute time - down on what it used to be, but still full. Buses are often full, though the services seem to have been reduced a bit.
I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back
The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.
This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.
She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.
Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.
They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.
Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.
Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....
...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.
This is the problem.
This is the culture we have to deal with.
THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.
P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.
The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.
Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today
If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.
That is the key. The bad cops have to lose their jobs and be open to both civil and criminal prosecution. And their bosses, if they serially fail to attend to such failures, should lose their jobs and, depending on their own level of negligence, be open to similar prosecution.
Good to see the righties here little bit frit again.
Yes. Obviously worried.
Dredging up the brexit referendum is clutching at straws really, considering the lies, corruption and gaslighting on Johnson's part (telegraph articles etc) showed how undemocratic it was. If it wasn't for the fact that the courts declared it "advisory only" there was a large chance it would have been overturned anyway. At best it was no better than a YouGov opinion poll with a bigger sample.
I mean, my God. The state of this comment
I cannot say I agree with daveyboy (and I don't know why 'advisory only' was in quotes as while true in a legal sense that doesn't mean a referendum has no weight behind it), but the idea that a sovereign parliament seeking not to follow through on the Brexit vote, and ultimately would face the consequences of that at any election as indeed happened, as being analagous to instigating an armed mob to storm a legislature, I think takes an even wilder imagination.
Trump tried to get an election - a nationwide vote - overturned because it was allegedly "rigged". That is exactly what Remoaners tried to do to Brexit, only in more polite and British ways
As I say, consider the Scottish analogy, and imagine if some government - in Holyrood or Westminster - had tried to overturn a YES vote, and get it re-run with "more information", while ignoring the first vote for independence. Here the argument ends
He engaged in spurious legal challenges and then instigated a mob based on fantasies, entreating those in Congress such as Pence to ignore their legal duty. And given his wishes to control the election outcomes through those who could certify them, people would not have gotten another chance had he succeeded.
However wrong one may think the attempt to not enact the Brexit outcome was, Parliament definitely had the legal right to not do it because while calling the referendum vote an opinion poll is irresponsibly belittling and unhelpful, it isn't the case that they were acting against some law or constitution in their actions. They should have gone with a compromise Brexit, but instead chanced their arm - they were legally able to, where Trump was not legally able to given what he was seeking, and the big difference is that if they had succeeded, an election would have come, and they would have been accountable for their decision. Indeed, the voters punished them for not getting Brexit done.
I am sure if there is a Yes vote for Sindy there will precisely be those arguments played out again.
Granted there were also many spurious Brexit legal challenges.
But bottom line while the remainer clique in parliament may morally outrage, it was akin to an insurrection, and in the end that is what Trump's actions amounted to. If people want to say they are in the same category, fine, whatever, but they are not the same. SImply calling it a nationwide vote doesn't make it the same as a presidential vote, they were not the same type of thing.
I am prone to focus a bit much on process, but the different types of vote, law and powers of those involved in parliamentary sovereignty, do make a difference on it.
They could do what they did - the question was whether they should have, politically and morally. He neither could nor should.
Christ, what a load of pointless waffle. I'm right, but you find it uncomfortable
Pointless waffle, perhaps, but I don't find 'it' uncomfortable - I thought it was bollocks but was trying to be polite about it.
I am just finishing a journey from Kent to Berkshire and back to the island, and things look as bad as at the weekend
Petrol is fine in South Yorkshire where I've been for a few days. Completely normal. Also noticeable is a big difference in mask wearing. They've pretty much ditched them up here.
Is mask use still a thing elsewhere ? Covid's over here for the most part. It's still at the vets, mind.
Certainly not in London, other than (around 50% use) on public transport. I wondered whether masklessness was a London thing, but it appears to be nationwide. Does anyone bother with them now, unless they are mandatory both de facto and de jure?
I don't bother. Haven't since the law went.
I only wear one when a train is really busy. As I rarely travel at peak time nowadays, that's rare and there's usually only a few people in the carriage, half of which aren't wearing a mask anyway.
I wear mine all the time. I’ll probably wear it forever now, how exactly to make the decision between safe and not safe enough?
I even wear it in bed sometimes, just to be extra sure.
"how exactly to make the decision between safe and not safe enough"
Whether you are vaccinated or not? Vaccines = silver bullet remember.
I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back
The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.... ....If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.
I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back
The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.
This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.
She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.
Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.
They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.
Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.
Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....
...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.
This is the problem.
This is the culture we have to deal with.
THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.
P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.
The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.
Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today
If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.
I am just finishing a journey from Kent to Berkshire and back to the island, and things look as bad as at the weekend
Petrol is fine in South Yorkshire where I've been for a few days. Completely normal. Also noticeable is a big difference in mask wearing. They've pretty much ditched them up here.
Here in the Midlands petrol still massive issue - "no fuel" signs still present.
Masks only really encountered in any number in health care settings.
In health care settings plus the tools on the Labour benches in the Commons. Turns my stomach, but I'd be interested in your *honest* opinion of that @kinabalu - you were always with me on the Freedom Day thing after all.
I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back
The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.
This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.
She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.
Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.
They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.
Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.
Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....
...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.
This is the problem.
This is the culture we have to deal with.
THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.
P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.
The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.
Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today
If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.
To think the police used to be widely respected in this country, not that long ago.
And then we had cctv and mobile phone cameras....
Since the advent of ubiquitous video camera ownership we've had no greater evidence of Big Foot or Nessie but amazingly a massive increase in the evidence of Police Brutality and Illegality.
I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back
The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.
This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.
She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.
Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.
They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.
Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.
Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....
...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.
This is the problem.
This is the culture we have to deal with.
THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.
P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.
The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.
Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today
If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.
That is the key. The bad cops have to lose their jobs and be open to both civil and criminal prosecution. And their bosses, if they serially fail to attend to such failures, should lose their jobs and, depending on their own level of negligence, be open to similar prosecution.
A part of the problem runs thus -
The cops on the ground are convinced that if something goes wrong, their superiors will stitch them up. There is no trust in the Senior Management Team.
In turn there is a widespread belief that there is no way that a senior officer would end up carrying the can - that they would pass the buck to junior officers.
In the case of De Mendes, the odd bit is that the police on the ground, who actually shot him were blameless. They were carrying out orders which they had reason to believe were lawful and necessary. It was the fuck up with the surveillance and the control of the operation which was the problem.
Which comes back to the doctrine of command responsibility. Where someone in authority can be guilty, but the subordinates who carried out what they thought were lawful orders are not.
The problem is that the police have been convinced that either they all hang together or they all hang separately. Hence the omertà...
I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back
The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.
This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.
She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.
Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.
They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.
Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.
Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....
...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.
This is the problem.
This is the culture we have to deal with.
THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.
P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.
The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.
Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today
If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.
To think the police used to be widely respected in this country, not that long ago.
PB is in some ways a bit more anti-police than the public perhaps. Certainly occasionally someone will pop up to suggest the group think is a bit too harsh given the job that the police are there to do. I think politically there's still too much resistance to the idea of anything but performative condemnation, with the idea of action then being seen as going 'too far' for our brave boys in blue.
But the example that TSE quotes is utterly unsurprising. As many good officers (or ex-officers) I know, we all know there are ones who act that way, I knew another ex-one who was upfront about thinking that kind of behaviour in response to people not doing what the police say immediately was acceptable.
They shouldn't face less accountability because of the nature of their job, they should face more.
I am just finishing a journey from Kent to Berkshire and back to the island, and things look as bad as at the weekend
Petrol is fine in South Yorkshire where I've been for a few days. Completely normal. Also noticeable is a big difference in mask wearing. They've pretty much ditched them up here.
Here in the Midlands petrol still massive issue - "no fuel" signs still present.
Masks only really encountered in any number in health care settings.
In health care settings plus the tools on the Labour benches in the Commons. Turns my stomach, but I'd be interested in your *honest* opinion of that @kinabalu - you were always with me on the Freedom Day thing after all.
The Labour MPs wearing masks in the Commons is the epitome of Covid theatre: nobody wears them IRL, including the Labour MPs themselves, who have just spent the last week crushed next to each other in the conference halls, pubs and nightclubs of Brighton, sans masks.
The excellent David Allen Green nails the law relating to today's sentencing exercise, and shows how carefully, and rightly, the judge went about his grim task, exactly:
That's really interesting. I was thinking it would have been a fairly easy decision for the judge. Not so. This bit is interesting:
Had the facts been that Everard had got into that car for any other reason than by use of police powers, the ordeal would have been just as terrifying, but it would not have ended with a whole-life sentence for the murderer.
Or had the murderer only been pretending to be police officer, and so was not actually using police powers, it may also not have ended with a whole-life sentence for the murderer.
Victims of other murderers will suffer as much if not worse than murderers caught by the whole-life categories, but their murders will get shorter sentences.
Personally, I'm not quite as outraged at the Met for this as others on here are precisely because anyone could have done what he did. The issue with the police is that it looks like they turned a blind eye to his prior behaviour.
Quite frankly, anyone who does this sort of thing should be locked up for life.
Of course. There are 2 public policy reasons why sentences have to differentiate in cases where the obvious reaction is rightly: Life should mean life.
Firstly you have to deter the very worst of offending by keeping the absolute max to a smaller group of offenders.
Second, people in the prison system who cannot under any circumstances receive a harsher punishment than they already have, have nothing to lose and are a massive danger to everyone working in the system. They need to be kept to a minimum. It is one of the costs of abolishing the death penalty.
I am just finishing a journey from Kent to Berkshire and back to the island, and things look as bad as at the weekend
Petrol is fine in South Yorkshire where I've been for a few days. Completely normal. Also noticeable is a big difference in mask wearing. They've pretty much ditched them up here.
Here in the Midlands petrol still massive issue - "no fuel" signs still present.
Masks only really encountered in any number in health care settings.
In health care settings plus the tools on the Labour benches in the Commons. Turns my stomach, but I'd be interested in your *honest* opinion of that @kinabalu - you were always with me on the Freedom Day thing after all.
The Labour MPs wearing masks in the Commons is the epitome of Covid theatre: nobody wears them IRL, including the Labour MPs themselves, who have just spent the last week crushed next to each other in the conference halls, pubs and nightclubs of Brighton, sans masks.
I agree with Mike that local election betting would be great. For light bets at least - so many unknowns even when sites make an effort, that you can get some great shocks
I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back
The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.
This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.
She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.
Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.
They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.
Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.
Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....
...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.
This is the problem.
This is the culture we have to deal with.
THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.
P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.
The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.
Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today
If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.
To think the police used to be widely respected in this country, not that long ago.
And then we had cctv and mobile phone cameras....
Since the advent of ubiquitous video camera ownership we've had no greater evidence of Big Foot or Nessie but amazingly a massive increase in the evidence of Police Brutality and Illegality.
Oh, I don't know.
In my youth we had the entertainment of the West Midland Serious Crime Squad.
Who turned out to be committing a serious proportion of the Serious Crimes in the West Midlands.
"By God, this police unit is well-named" as Sir Harry Esson might have said...
I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back
The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.
This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.
She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.
Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.
They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.
Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.
Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....
...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.
This is the problem.
This is the culture we have to deal with.
THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.
P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.
The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.
Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today
If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.
To think the police used to be widely respected in this country, not that long ago.
And then we had cctv and mobile phone cameras....
Since the advent of ubiquitous video camera ownership we've had no greater evidence of Big Foot or Nessie but amazingly a massive increase in the evidence of Police Brutality and Illegality.
Oh, I don't know.
In my youth we had the entertainment of the West Midland Serious Crime Squad.
Who turned out to be committing a serious proportion of the Serious Crimes in the West Midlands.
"By God, this police unit is well-named" as Sir Harry Esson might have said...
Well as Lord Vetinari said, if you're going to have crime it might as well be organised crime at least.
PB brains trust query: We're currently getting quotes for building work, substantial extension, probably be towards £100k, so we want it done right. Just had someone round to quote who is doing work down the road. A bit of Googling has revealed the company in question was incorporated in 2020 and the person we spoke to (owner) had a previous building company which underwent creditors voluntary liquidation in 2020 at around the same time. We'll obviously ask about this if we consider going further, but is it - on the face of it - sketchy? Or might there be quite innocuous explanations?
(We just got this guy in as an 'extra' quote really - already had builder round who did a big extension for sister-in-law and have a couple more reccommended by architect, but they're proving hard to pin down. We want at least a few quotes to compare, but would most likely go for the guy we know most about unless there are good reasons to choose someone else)
I'm not that experienced but thats a warning sign in case things go wrong. Double glazing companies (for instance) can offer long guarantees, then the company (Turbotubbs Glazing) folds, so null and void. Next week you get a flyer from Tubbsturbo Glazing...
Comments
Eg https://www.gdjones.co.uk/en/vehicles
Edit: Oh wait, those aren’t trailers, so you can’t use the combined weight thing to allow a 12 ton limit.
Maybe even /smaller/ tankers then? It all sounds a bit pointless doesn’t it?
Though 52% of Labour voters still back ending private schools charitable status even if they partner with local state schools
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/sx0xopiuqb/InternalResults_141126_private_schools_Website.pdf
Maybe the government is hoping to send out fleets of ambulance drivers in dinky trucks, but I don’t think this is going to do much to relieve our HGV driver shortage & we’re short on ambulances as it is aren’t we?
quote: “Letters have been sent out to a million people including ambulance drivers”.
i.e. everyone with an HGV licence has received this letter.
Points to the government for at least trying something sensible I guess. This falls under the “can’t hurt, might help, is cheap so we may as well try it” column.
Every Shadow Cabinet member has a net unfavourable rating though with Nandy, Green and Stevens least unpopular
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1443564087460474882?s=20
- propose removing charitable status
- Lawyers point out that they would have to do it in a "equitable" fashion to avoid challenge.
- Lawyer point out that this would catch a whole bunch of charities, a number of which were.... friendly to the Labour party
- Charities go "WUT!?"
What proportion of a organisations turnover needs to go to actual charitable activities before you regard it as a charity?
I know a few posho County Set with HGV licenses for equestrian purposes.
surely not..
Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
https://davidallengreen.com/2021/09/why-the-whole-life-sentence-for-the-murderer-of-sarah-everard-is-correct/
Really??
It is clear that for parts of the country it is over but others are still experiencing problems
Had the facts been that Everard had got into that car for any other reason than by use of police powers, the ordeal would have been just as terrifying, but it would not have ended with a whole-life sentence for the murderer.
Or had the murderer only been pretending to be police officer, and so was not actually using police powers, it may also not have ended with a whole-life sentence for the murderer.
Victims of other murderers will suffer as much if not worse than murderers caught by the whole-life categories, but their murders will get shorter sentences.
Personally, I'm not quite as outraged at the Met for this as others on here are precisely because anyone could have done what he did. The issue with the police is that it looks like they turned a blind eye to his prior behaviour.
Quite frankly, anyone who does this sort of thing should be locked up for life.
We're currently getting quotes for building work, substantial extension, probably be towards £100k, so we want it done right. Just had someone round to quote who is doing work down the road. A bit of Googling has revealed the company in question was incorporated in 2020 and the person we spoke to (owner) had a previous building company which underwent creditors voluntary liquidation in 2020 at around the same time. We'll obviously ask about this if we consider going further, but is it - on the face of it - sketchy? Or might there be quite innocuous explanations?
(We just got this guy in as an 'extra' quote really - already had builder round who did a big extension for sister-in-law and have a couple more reccommended by architect, but they're proving hard to pin down. We want at least a few quotes to compare, but would most likely go for the guy we know most about unless there are good reasons to choose someone else)
Thommo does post so much though, you’ll never find it.
I pray he’s a bot otherwise his wife’s a PB widow 😔
I couldn't care less what other countries are doing.
If some parts of the country people are still hoarding fuel they need to grow up and stop doing that.
I know this is an American Video and quite long, but he just about sums up how we should deal with our police, sadly.
Honestly, if this were happening in, say, France, don't you think PT would be having a field day? Well, I'm pretty sure that PT's French counterpart is laughing his stripy socks off at the moment.
Not especially good sounding - how long was the previous company running for?
Yes, constructive bankruptcies are a standard operating procedure for a certain type.
Quite a few of them wouldn’t have been allowed in the building but for their uniform.
The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc
I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.
You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
So what is our way forward cyclefree? You likely have every single man in the country other than Wayne Couzens upset and angry toward this most warped, most selfish and brutal man. What effective action can now be taken, or education and guidance taken on board?
If he is just a rotten apple in a barrel, a bad egg, do we regard it as important still for boys to be allowed to be boys, and girls should welcome what is hardcoded into their DNA too? As per the current and traditional teaching, To become a man a boy needs to know how to have a presence, how to have a power - and their courage must never be demeaned by anybody?
I even wear it in bed sometimes, just to be extra sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-_5JJmNB6E
At the multi-million level, the builders assume that they will be sued and budget accordingly...
Value a bit over £5bn.
They've done rather better out of the pandemic than AZN.
Whether you are vaccinated or not? Vaccines = silver bullet remember.
Masks only really encountered in any number in health care settings.
In health care settings plus the tools on the Labour benches in the Commons. Turns my stomach, but I'd be interested in your *honest* opinion of that @kinabalu - you were always with me on the Freedom Day thing after all.
The cops on the ground are convinced that if something goes wrong, their superiors will stitch them up. There is no trust in the Senior Management Team.
In turn there is a widespread belief that there is no way that a senior officer would end up carrying the can - that they would pass the buck to junior officers.
In the case of De Mendes, the odd bit is that the police on the ground, who actually shot him were blameless. They were carrying out orders which they had reason to believe were lawful and necessary. It was the fuck up with the surveillance and the control of the operation which was the problem.
Which comes back to the doctrine of command responsibility. Where someone in authority can be guilty, but the subordinates who carried out what they thought were lawful orders are not.
The problem is that the police have been convinced that either they all hang together or they all hang separately. Hence the omertà...
How to deal with that?
But the example that TSE quotes is utterly unsurprising. As many good officers (or ex-officers) I know, we all know there are ones who act that way, I knew another ex-one who was upfront about thinking that kind of behaviour in response to people not doing what the police say immediately was acceptable.
They shouldn't face less accountability because of the nature of their job, they should face more.
If DeSantis can kill just a few thousand more of his citizens I think he will take the lead.
As a sanity check though note the source of the poll.
Firstly you have to deter the very worst of offending by keeping the absolute max to a smaller group of offenders.
Second, people in the prison system who cannot under any circumstances receive a harsher punishment than they already have, have nothing to lose and are a massive danger to everyone working in the system. They need to be kept to a minimum. It is one of the costs of abolishing the death penalty.
In my youth we had the entertainment of the West Midland Serious Crime Squad.
Who turned out to be committing a serious proportion of the Serious Crimes in the West Midlands.
"By God, this police unit is well-named" as Sir Harry Esson might have said...
If you cannot stop crime, join in and control it!