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The German election looks very tight – politicalbetting.com

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  • nico679nico679 Posts: 602
    RobD said:

    nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Soldiers likely to be put on notice to drive petrol tankers to forecourts within days amid panic buying

    It will take at least a week before they are ready for deployment & ministers hope crisis will have eased by then

    But ministers planning for worst


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/81c95d4a-1efb-11ec-a1fd-37d9030e4d65?shareToken=9da441ad39c185f701b8e7a32702e09d

    If only they had put fuel shortages on the side of the bus ! We just need the powdered eggs and general rationing now to be able to re-live the glory years ! I feel a Vera Lynn song coming on ! The EU must be pissing themselves laughing , the last few weeks has done wonders for them. Just imagine another country stupid enough to go for a referendum . All the pro EU side have to do is show the cluster fuck in the UK.
    Seems unlikely given that HGV driver shortages seem to be a problem all over the continent. The fuel shortages have only been caused by panic buying, with demands over 500% of normal levels. That would cause issues in any country, Brexit or not.
    It’s Europe wide but is effecting the U.K. more because of the disproportionate amount of drivers who left last year . The supply chains are also different as EU hauliers have much more flexibility and don’t have to go through red tape on steroids.
  • geoffw said:

    Guten Abend, Lieblings :)

    Lieblinge :)

    Sunil learned his German at the Wayne Newton School of Linguistics, Las Vegas, Nevada
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I thought three constituencies got you the PR seats irrespective of vote share.

    Yes, sorry, my mistake.

    By the way, the AfD campaigned heavily against mask-wearing - their big drop in support is possibly related to that. But I suspect suspect both they and Linke got squeezed by people trying to make the CDU or SPD largest.

    Green leader saying they would have preferred a coalition with the SPD alone, but would now have to see what the negotiations produce. Similarly, the FDP leader is open to negotiations but definitely wants to be in government. I don't think there's much doubt that Scholz will be Kanzler, though.
    What are the AfD predicted to get? I thought I saw 11%, isn’t that what they were polling pretty much throughout?
    Alice Weidel actually claimed during die Berliner Runde earlier that the slight drop in AfD vote relative to 2017 was due to losses to die Freie Wähler and if they were not in this election they'd have ended up slightly higher.
  • nico679 said:

    RobD said:

    nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Soldiers likely to be put on notice to drive petrol tankers to forecourts within days amid panic buying

    It will take at least a week before they are ready for deployment & ministers hope crisis will have eased by then

    But ministers planning for worst


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/81c95d4a-1efb-11ec-a1fd-37d9030e4d65?shareToken=9da441ad39c185f701b8e7a32702e09d

    If only they had put fuel shortages on the side of the bus ! We just need the powdered eggs and general rationing now to be able to re-live the glory years ! I feel a Vera Lynn song coming on ! The EU must be pissing themselves laughing , the last few weeks has done wonders for them. Just imagine another country stupid enough to go for a referendum . All the pro EU side have to do is show the cluster fuck in the UK.
    Seems unlikely given that HGV driver shortages seem to be a problem all over the continent. The fuel shortages have only been caused by panic buying, with demands over 500% of normal levels. That would cause issues in any country, Brexit or not.
    It’s Europe wide but is effecting the U.K. more because of the disproportionate amount of drivers who left last year . The supply chains are also different as EU hauliers have much more flexibility and don’t have to go through red tape on steroids.
    cabotage
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 1,257
    edited September 2021
    Loew said:

    Argh - I just noticed this in a previous thread:

    darkage said:

    Cycled from Dundee to Aberdeen along the coastal path. Rolling hills, long sandy beaches, quirky military installations etc. No midges. Mostly free of english tourists. Everyone I met was very friendly.

    You write of English visitors as if they were a bad rash, the way some BNP boneheads and other white racists talk about non-whites whether born here or settlers or visitors. What a disgusting outlook, deserving of the epithet "Dark Age".

    I was describing the character of an area. The prevalance or otherwise of english accents is a characteristic. I have no idea what is behind you taking offence to this remark; but had you read some of my other posts it would become obvious that I am English myself.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,749

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:
    For what it's worth, SPDer has taken the Pied Piper's constituency . . .

    EDIT - most of the constituencies reporting results so far are Bavarian.
    That’s some Hanover.
    You've been Aachen to post that!
    Well, yes, but I had no particular Aix to grind.
    Bonn voyage!
    You'll be Saary
    Poor effort, it played you Pfalz.

    Goodnight, before I Rhein out of German puns.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:
    For what it's worth, SPDer has taken the Pied Piper's constituency . . .

    EDIT - most of the constituencies reporting results so far are Bavarian.
    That’s some Hanover.
    You've been Aachen to post that!
    Well, yes, but I had no particular Aix to grind.
    Bonn voyage!
    You'll be Saary
    That's a very poor Erfurt!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,659
    BigRich said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As no one was willing to take a stab at French nuclear availability, I'll tell you.

    61.7% in 2020.

    Now, there were probably some Covid related issues in there. So I'll tell you what 2021 was: 67%.

    A French nuclear power is typically only available to generate power on two-thirds of days. The availability of Hinkley Point C, which is based around the new EPR design, will be less than that - at least initially. It is probably reasonable to assume no more than 50% availability for the first couple of years.

    The problem with wind is that turbines all go offline together (too little wind or stormy weather) in addition to individual outage for maintenance or mechanical failure.
    Tidal lagoon power produces for 14 hours a day. 58% coverage

    But one 3 hours tide up the coast would give 70% production coverage through 24 hours.

    Four spread around the coasts could give 95.8% coverage through 24 hours.

    Each day. Every day. For 120 years. Minimum. Zero carbon. Zero waste.......
    Zero chance of a critical meltdown incident. A terrorist attack would be a hassle, but wouldn't entirely render the area uninhabitable. Predictable what the tide will be in 120 years.
    I could go on and on.
    Lagoons are a third of the capital cost to build versus nuclear (and last at least twice as long - probably far longer).

    Electricity at a 40-50% discount to the price for that generated by nuclear.

    Virtually zero abandonment costs for tidal versus the current bill of up to £220 billion to abandon the UKs existing nuclear facilities.

    Regeneration of coastal towns by creation of new leisure facilities at lagoons
    - versus each nuclear plant requiring a 24 hour armed police force

    80,000 jobs and apprenticeships created in building a fleet of lagoons.....
    I've often wondered about Tidal, and you are selling it well, I haven't checked the numbers, but what are the downsides/why has it not happened already? Environmental damage to the seabed?
    Wetland and Wildlife Fund and Greenpeace have both come out in support of tidal barrages. There is some need for dredging, but other than that, really there aren't downsides.

    The only downside is for a handful of civil servants who bet the farm on nuclear at £92.50 (and a £37 billion public/ consumer subsidy) - and would look prats if the true numbers come out.

    Plus the nuclear industry sees tidal as an existential threat - build one tidal power station, and the economics of another nuclear plant would be just laughed at. No more £37 billions from the public teat....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713

    SAN MARINO REFERENDUM to Legalize Abortion - Yes 77.3% (35 of 37 districts reporting)

    https://www.barrons.com/news/san-marino-votes-to-legalise-abortion-partial-referendum-results-01632686706?tesla=y

    Though still only up to 12 weeks, not 24 like here
  • Determined to make every graduate under the age of say 40 vote Labour, Johnson presses on:



    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    3m
    FINANCIAL TIMES: No10 plans to cut graduate salary threshold for paying back loans #TomorrowsPapersToday
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,018
    nico679 said:

    RobD said:

    nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Soldiers likely to be put on notice to drive petrol tankers to forecourts within days amid panic buying

    It will take at least a week before they are ready for deployment & ministers hope crisis will have eased by then

    But ministers planning for worst


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/81c95d4a-1efb-11ec-a1fd-37d9030e4d65?shareToken=9da441ad39c185f701b8e7a32702e09d

    If only they had put fuel shortages on the side of the bus ! We just need the powdered eggs and general rationing now to be able to re-live the glory years ! I feel a Vera Lynn song coming on ! The EU must be pissing themselves laughing , the last few weeks has done wonders for them. Just imagine another country stupid enough to go for a referendum . All the pro EU side have to do is show the cluster fuck in the UK.
    Seems unlikely given that HGV driver shortages seem to be a problem all over the continent. The fuel shortages have only been caused by panic buying, with demands over 500% of normal levels. That would cause issues in any country, Brexit or not.
    It’s Europe wide but is effecting the U.K. more because of the disproportionate amount of drivers who left last year . The supply chains are also different as EU hauliers have much more flexibility and don’t have to go through red tape on steroids.
    ...affecting the UK...

    Sorry, I can't stop myself.
  • A newly-elected member of the Bundetag from Bavaria (CSU) Dr. Geissler has "Tecumseh" as a middle name.

    There MUST be a story behind THAT.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,659
    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As no one was willing to take a stab at French nuclear availability, I'll tell you.

    61.7% in 2020.

    Now, there were probably some Covid related issues in there. So I'll tell you what 2021 was: 67%.

    A French nuclear power is typically only available to generate power on two-thirds of days. The availability of Hinkley Point C, which is based around the new EPR design, will be less than that - at least initially. It is probably reasonable to assume no more than 50% availability for the first couple of years.

    The problem with wind is that turbines all go offline together (too little wind or stormy weather) in addition to individual outage for maintenance or mechanical failure.
    Tidal lagoon power produces for 14 hours a day. 58% coverage

    But one 3 hours tide up the coast would give 70% production coverage through 24 hours.

    Four spread around the coasts could give 95.8% coverage through 24 hours.

    Each day. Every day. For 120 years. Minimum. Zero carbon. Zero waste.......
    Zero chance of a critical meltdown incident. A terrorist attack would be a hassle, but wouldn't entirely render the area uninhabitable. Predictable what the tide will be in 120 years.
    I could go on and on.
    Lagoons are a third of the capital cost to build versus nuclear (and last at least twice as long - probably far longer).

    Electricity at a 40-50% discount to the price for that generated by nuclear.

    Virtually zero abandonment costs for tidal versus the current bill of up to £220 billion to abandon the UKs existing nuclear facilities.

    Regeneration of coastal towns by creation of new leisure facilities at lagoons
    - versus each nuclear plant requiring a 24 hour armed police force

    80,000 jobs and apprenticeships created in building a fleet of lagoons.....
    I've often wondered about Tidal, and you are selling it well, I haven't checked the numbers, but what are the downsides/why has it not happened already? Environmental damage to the seabed?
    MM will know more, but they are massive engineering projects: and the more power you want to generate, the larger the project and therefore the cost. There are also potential environmental issues as well, from fish spawning to birds.

    There are also many different designs, from tidal lagoons to full-on barrages. In fact, many bird fans (Hi, MM!) like some tidal designs as they can create larger area of intertidal zones.

    Projected costs are also all over the place: some in favour of the Severn Barrage (just one potential type) give a cost of £4 billion; others come up with costs between 14 and 25 billion.

    All AIUI.
    I'm willing to bet that the first large scale tidal power plant will be massively overbudget. And I'd be willing to bet that by number five, they'll get both costs down and predictability up.
    I'd be willing to bet that it would be very close to budget. This will be private capital - and all the restraints that requires. Like North Sea oil production platforms, where you'd get kicked off as project operator if the costs overran by more than 10%.

    Not everything goes overbudget like HS2. Or nuclear plants.....
  • Another straw in the wind from the French establishment:

    Gérard Araud: “NATO is the most overvalued organization in the world : no forces of its own, limited budget, limited remit, fading relevance and looking for a raison d’etre. Can be summarized by “ensuring the US military presence in Europe”. What happens if the Americans are tiptoeing out?”

    https://twitter.com/gerardaraud/status/1442193482949537795
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,777
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:
    For what it's worth, SPDer has taken the Pied Piper's constituency . . .

    EDIT - most of the constituencies reporting results so far are Bavarian.
    That’s some Hanover.
    You've been Aachen to post that!
    Well, yes, but I had no particular Aix to grind.
    Bonn voyage!
    You'll be Saary
    Poor effort, it played you Pfalz.

    Goodnight, before I Rhein out of German puns.
    rein deutsche Wortspielerei

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713
    edited September 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT Re Jimmy Saville.
    He groomed an entire nation's Establishment. Using him to have a pop at just the BBC is a bit reductive.
    Strangely. It was widely rumoured about amongst the younger generation. We knew not to go to his club in Manchester. Don't know anyone my age who thought him other than a total creep.
    But our elders and betters couldn't contain their gushing enthusiasm for the living saint amongst us.
    Any forensic dramatisation might expose the hypocrisy of an entire generation.

    His fundamental weirdness was hidden in plain sight. You’d never go near a random who looked like that in the street, but because he was Jimmy Saville, somehow he was ok. I’d love to know the full truth of who new what about him. I know attitudes have changed, and for the better, but you’d have to think some who knew what he did wish they’d tried to do something back then.
    Sex with young groupies was considered a bit of a perk in those days, in a way we would not tolerate now.
    It should not have been 'tolerated' then. The Summer of Love and the swinging sixties have a great deal to answer for. It was often great for men; less so for women.

    On a related note: how the heck is John Peel still revered?
    Indeed, his marriage to an underage American has faded into history, alongside his Seventies slot "Schoolgirl of the week". That many of his groupies were young, and indeed underage is not something he has ever hidden, and while she was 15 he did actually marry her.

    http://andywalmsley.blogspot.com/2014/10/peel-reveals.html?m=1

    I think the difference is one of scale, but also of emphasis. Peel had a transparent excellence at spotting new musical trends that transcends his sexual misbehaviour. His evening show in the Eighties was a cornucopia of the brilliant and the avant garde alongside stuff like The Fall, which no matter how much I listen, I cannot get.
    Cor. Did you really mean that.

    Paedophilia is “sexual misbehaviour”

    His ability to spot good music transcends it?

    FFS
  • eekeek Posts: 17,300
    HYUFD said:

    SAN MARINO REFERENDUM to Legalize Abortion - Yes 77.3% (35 of 37 districts reporting)

    https://www.barrons.com/news/san-marino-votes-to-legalise-abortion-partial-referendum-results-01632686706?tesla=y

    Though still only up to 12 weeks, not 24 like here
    If you want to live in America nothing is stopping you but here abortion is a moral issue which means votes are personal and not whipped.
  • HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    Your vote to REMAIN was a centre-left vote.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    Your vote to REMAIN was a centre-left vote.
    It wasn't given the leader of the Remain campaign, Cameron, was leader of the Conservative Party at the time and plenty of working class Labour voters voted Leave
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713
    edited September 2021
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    SAN MARINO REFERENDUM to Legalize Abortion - Yes 77.3% (35 of 37 districts reporting)

    https://www.barrons.com/news/san-marino-votes-to-legalise-abortion-partial-referendum-results-01632686706?tesla=y

    Though still only up to 12 weeks, not 24 like here
    If you want to live in America nothing is stopping you but here abortion is a moral issue which means votes are personal and not whipped.
    I would prefer 12 weeks to 24 like much of Europe. I did not say I would ban abortion outright (and of course outside of Texas the abortion laws are generally as liberal in the US as in the UK, in some liberal states even more so)
  • HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,678

    A newly-elected member of the Bundetag from Bavaria (CSU) Dr. Geissler has "Tecumseh" as a middle name.

    There MUST be a story behind THAT.

    Named for General Sherman?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713

    Another straw in the wind from the French establishment:

    Gérard Araud: “NATO is the most overvalued organization in the world : no forces of its own, limited budget, limited remit, fading relevance and looking for a raison d’etre. Can be summarized by “ensuring the US military presence in Europe”. What happens if the Americans are tiptoeing out?”

    https://twitter.com/gerardaraud/status/1442193482949537795

    France and Germany have to increase defence spending to keep Putin out of the Baltic states and Ukraine
  • Foxy said:

    A newly-elected member of the Bundetag from Bavaria (CSU) Dr. Geissler has "Tecumseh" as a middle name.

    There MUST be a story behind THAT.

    Named for General Sherman?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecumseh
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,288
    MaxPB said:

    Now that I'm sufficiently recovered from last night - London is bouncing. At least Camden is, I don't think it's fresher's week either because everyone looked sort of around 25-30 rather than of student age. We went to two bars and eventually a late night one with a dancefloor playing 90s grunge. Absolutely fucking packed. Queue at the bar was at least 3 people deep and the dancefloor was just rammed. Got offered coke and mandy at least three times as well so London's party drug dealers are definitely back in business as well.

    The whole conversation about masks to stop spread just seems so irrelevant when places like this are open.

    All in all the old normal is back, if you want to experience it. People are out there living the old normal and that is going to become more and more common over the next few months until there's just a few holdouts banging on about stopping the virus and tutting behind their masks at the rest of society.

    Milton Keynes was heaving too. Well the Tesco fuel stop was..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713
    edited September 2021

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    I said that earlier, but HY and others disagreed with me. HY said some rubbish about its not an international yardstick, but yardstick for each nation. Which is rubbish and it means US Dems are ‘left’ on basis they are to the left of GOP.

    You are absolutely right Big G, Boris is nationalising, Biden will never consider, that is the sort of thing the yardstick is measured on.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 602
    edited September 2021

    Determined to make every graduate under the age of say 40 vote Labour, Johnson presses on:



    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    3m
    FINANCIAL TIMES: No10 plans to cut graduate salary threshold for paying back loans #TomorrowsPapersToday

    So graduates will be hit by both the NI rise and this. And it will of course hurt those on lower incomes the most . Awful policy , my loathing of the Tories increases by the day .
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,196
    INDEPENDENT DIGITAL: Now half of petrol stations run out of fuel #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1442229012911177730/photo/1
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As no one was willing to take a stab at French nuclear availability, I'll tell you.

    61.7% in 2020.

    Now, there were probably some Covid related issues in there. So I'll tell you what 2021 was: 67%.

    A French nuclear power is typically only available to generate power on two-thirds of days. The availability of Hinkley Point C, which is based around the new EPR design, will be less than that - at least initially. It is probably reasonable to assume no more than 50% availability for the first couple of years.

    The problem with wind is that turbines all go offline together (too little wind or stormy weather) in addition to individual outage for maintenance or mechanical failure.
    Tidal lagoon power produces for 14 hours a day. 58% coverage

    But one 3 hours tide up the coast would give 70% production coverage through 24 hours.

    Four spread around the coasts could give 95.8% coverage through 24 hours.

    Each day. Every day. For 120 years. Minimum. Zero carbon. Zero waste.......
    Zero chance of a critical meltdown incident. A terrorist attack would be a hassle, but wouldn't entirely render the area uninhabitable. Predictable what the tide will be in 120 years.
    I could go on and on.
    Lagoons are a third of the capital cost to build versus nuclear (and last at least twice as long - probably far longer).

    Electricity at a 40-50% discount to the price for that generated by nuclear.

    Virtually zero abandonment costs for tidal versus the current bill of up to £220 billion to abandon the UKs existing nuclear facilities.

    Regeneration of coastal towns by creation of new leisure facilities at lagoons
    - versus each nuclear plant requiring a 24 hour armed police force

    80,000 jobs and apprenticeships created in building a fleet of lagoons.....
    Are you still involved with that proposal to build a tidal barrage in the Severn estuary?

    A disclaimer may be required
  • Foxy said:

    A newly-elected member of the Bundetag from Bavaria (CSU) Dr. Geissler has "Tecumseh" as a middle name.

    There MUST be a story behind THAT.

    Named for General Sherman?
    My guess is that Dr G was, like the General, named in honor of Tecumseh -THE great Native American leader.

    Germany has long been known for affinity to the lore & legend of the American West, for example as chronicled in the novels of Karl May. Who counted among his fans both Albert Einstein and Adolf Hitler.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,386
    edited September 2021
    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    I said that earlier, but HY and others disagreed with me. HY said some rubbish about its not an international yardstick, but yardstick for each nation. Which is rubbish and it means US Dems are ‘left’ on basis they are to the left of GOP.

    You are absolutely right Big G, Boris is nationalising, Biden will never consider, that is the sort of thing the yardstick is measured on.
    You can choose one metric to compare two politicians on, and make one appear more left than the other.
    But taken across the piece, Biden is to the left of Boris, no question.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
  • HYUFD said:

    Another straw in the wind from the French establishment:

    Gérard Araud: “NATO is the most overvalued organization in the world : no forces of its own, limited budget, limited remit, fading relevance and looking for a raison d’etre. Can be summarized by “ensuring the US military presence in Europe”. What happens if the Americans are tiptoeing out?”

    https://twitter.com/gerardaraud/status/1442193482949537795

    France and Germany have to increase defence spending to keep Putin out of the Baltic states and Ukraine
    In truth the UK and France need a security and defence pact as Germany is not in the mix
  • It would be so encouraging to so many people in a political sense if 91.6% of all votes went towards electing someone, rather than being wasted.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,196
    TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: ⁦@grantshapps⁩ plan to let truckers work longer hours falls flat #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1442229490818723845/photo/1
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,102

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:
    For what it's worth, SPDer has taken the Pied Piper's constituency . . .

    EDIT - most of the constituencies reporting results so far are Bavarian.
    That’s some Hanover.
    You've been Aachen to post that!
    Well, yes, but I had no particular Aix to grind.
    Bonn voyage!
    You'll be Saary
    That's a very poor Erfurt!
    You’re all just having a Wank.
  • Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Now that I'm sufficiently recovered from last night - London is bouncing. At least Camden is, I don't think it's fresher's week either because everyone looked sort of around 25-30 rather than of student age. We went to two bars and eventually a late night one with a dancefloor playing 90s grunge. Absolutely fucking packed. Queue at the bar was at least 3 people deep and the dancefloor was just rammed. Got offered coke and mandy at least three times as well so London's party drug dealers are definitely back in business as well.

    The whole conversation about masks to stop spread just seems so irrelevant when places like this are open.

    All in all the old normal is back, if you want to experience it. People are out there living the old normal and that is going to become more and more common over the next few months until there's just a few holdouts banging on about stopping the virus and tutting behind their masks at the rest of society.

    Milton Keynes was heaving too. Well the Tesco fuel stop was..
    Based on my conversations with friends and family and passing acquaintances in the last week or so I would say that as the school reopening has not led to a huge iSAGE-level surge, most peeps are sayings 'ok, great, that's it, this is over', 'I'm going full speed from now on'.

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 602
    Scott_xP said:

    TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: ⁦@grantshapps⁩ plan to let truckers work longer hours falls flat #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1442229490818723845/photo/1

    Another moronic proposal by this cesspit government hopefully bites the dust .
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,102
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    Why not remind us how things ended for him?
  • nico679 said:

    Determined to make every graduate under the age of say 40 vote Labour, Johnson presses on:



    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    3m
    FINANCIAL TIMES: No10 plans to cut graduate salary threshold for paying back loans #TomorrowsPapersToday

    So graduates will be hit by both the NI rise and this. And it will of course hurt those on lower incomes the most . Awful policy , my loathing of the Tories increases by the day .
    Maybe wait for Rishi budget next month rather than believe newspaper stories

    You may be in for quite a surprise , not least an adjustment on UC
  • IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:
    For what it's worth, SPDer has taken the Pied Piper's constituency . . .

    EDIT - most of the constituencies reporting results so far are Bavarian.
    That’s some Hanover.
    You've been Aachen to post that!
    Well, yes, but I had no particular Aix to grind.
    Bonn voyage!
    You'll be Saary
    That's a very poor Erfurt!
    You’re all just having a Wank.
    You're a Baden, that's for sure!
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Farooq said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    I said that earlier, but HY and others disagreed with me. HY said some rubbish about its not an international yardstick, but yardstick for each nation. Which is rubbish and it means US Dems are ‘left’ on basis they are to the left of GOP.

    You are absolutely right Big G, Boris is nationalising, Biden will never consider, that is the sort of thing the yardstick is measured on.
    You can choose one metric to compare two politicians on, and make one appear more left than the other.
    But taken across the piece, Biden is to the left of Boris, no question.
    I’m definitely questioning that! You are wrong. It’s who you vote with on economics, tax and spend, nationalise privatise, welfare or cut welfare that really matters, and that puts Biden and most Dems much to the right of Boris.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713
    edited September 2021
    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    I said that earlier, but HY and others disagreed with me. HY said some rubbish about its not an international yardstick, but yardstick for each nation. Which is rubbish and it means US Dems are ‘left’ on basis they are to the left of GOP.

    You are absolutely right Big G, Boris is nationalising, Biden will never consider, that is the sort of thing the yardstick is measured on.
    That is rubbish. Biden is far left of Boris on immigration or the culture wars for example or Brexit and the Irish Sea border.

    Biden is also proposing to raise more taxes on the rich than Boris is and to spend more than any US President since LBJ.

    The GOP are in the IDU with the Tories and the CDU/CSU, that does not mean they are ideologically identical but they are all the main conservative or centre right parties in their countries. As are other parties in the IDU like the Spanish PP, the Canadian Conservatives or the Australian Liberals and the NZ Nationals.

    The Democrats sister parties are Labour and the SPD, hence Blair, Clinton and Schroder were so chummy.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,196
    Matt Hancock mocked for going full 'Alan Partridge' in cringeworthy new comeback video - https://ift.tt/3CNCKvT
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    I never said he was near Corbyn or Rayner, but he is left of centre no matter what you may claim
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    Social issues not even etched on the yardstick. Kate Hoey went hunting, but was rightly in the Labour Party for how she voted on economic questions.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Matt Hancock mocked for going full 'Alan Partridge' in cringeworthy new comeback video - https://ift.tt/3CNCKvT

    Sounds f*cking desperate.
  • nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: ⁦@grantshapps⁩ plan to let truckers work longer hours falls flat #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1442229490818723845/photo/1

    Another moronic proposal by this cesspit government hopefully bites the dust .
    You actually want the crisis to get worse

    Sad
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,386
    edited September 2021
    gealbhan said:

    Farooq said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    I said that earlier, but HY and others disagreed with me. HY said some rubbish about its not an international yardstick, but yardstick for each nation. Which is rubbish and it means US Dems are ‘left’ on basis they are to the left of GOP.

    You are absolutely right Big G, Boris is nationalising, Biden will never consider, that is the sort of thing the yardstick is measured on.
    You can choose one metric to compare two politicians on, and make one appear more left than the other.
    But taken across the piece, Biden is to the left of Boris, no question.
    I’m definitely questioning that! You are wrong. It’s who you vote with on economics, tax and spend, nationalise privatise, welfare or cut welfare that really matters, and that puts Biden and most Dems much to the right of Boris.
    Who you vote with is entirely irrelevant, what you vote for is what counts.
    Look down this nice summary. Much of what's in there falls into the first two categories:
    1. Yes, I could imagine Boris doing that.
    2. No, that's probably too left wing for Boris.
    3. No, that's probably too right wing for Boris.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden#Tax
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713
    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    Social issues not even etched on the yardstick. Kate Hoey went hunting, but was rightly in the Labour Party for how she voted on economic questions.
    Social issues are the yardstick which makes you a conservative as well as support for inheritance, being economically Thatcherite could make you a classical liberal as much as a conservative
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,575

    Scott_xP said:

    Matt Hancock mocked for going full 'Alan Partridge' in cringeworthy new comeback video - https://ift.tt/3CNCKvT

    Sounds f*cking desperate.
    I don't dare watch it :D
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    I never said he was near Corbyn or Rayner, but he is left of centre no matter what you may claim
    He isn't. if he was he would be increasing immigration, increasing welfare spending, increasing income tax and IHT and very woke
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,622
    Scott_xP said:

    INDEPENDENT DIGITAL: Now half of petrol stations run out of fuel #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1442229012911177730/photo/1

    well it was 70% a few hours ago, according to a twiter reposted on here so maybe by the morning they will all be full again :)
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,386

    nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: ⁦@grantshapps⁩ plan to let truckers work longer hours falls flat #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1442229490818723845/photo/1

    Another moronic proposal by this cesspit government hopefully bites the dust .
    You actually want the crisis to get worse

    Sad
    The crisis in government, or the crisis on the roads?
  • HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    Social issues not even etched on the yardstick. Kate Hoey went hunting, but was rightly in the Labour Party for how she voted on economic questions.
    Social issues are the yardstick which makes you a conservative as well as support for inheritance, being economically Thatcherite could make you a classical liberal as much as a conservative
    I hope the rumours that Rishi is looking at inheritance tax are true
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713
    edited September 2021
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    Why not remind us how things ended for him?
    He left office after 12 years in 2007, the longest serving President post war after Mitterand and was given a state funeral when he died?
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    I said that earlier, but HY and others disagreed with me. HY said some rubbish about its not an international yardstick, but yardstick for each nation. Which is rubbish and it means US Dems are ‘left’ on basis they are to the left of GOP.

    You are absolutely right Big G, Boris is nationalising, Biden will never consider, that is the sort of thing the yardstick is measured on.
    That is rubbish. Biden is far left of Boris on immigration or the culture wars for example or Brexit and the Irish Sea border.

    Biden is also proposing to raise more taxes on the rich than Boris is and to spend more than any US President since LBJ.

    The GOP are in the IDU with the Tories and the CDU/CSU, that does not mean they are ideologically identical but they are all the main conservative or centre right parties in their countries. As are other parties in the IDU like the Spanish PP, the Canadian Conservatives or the Australian Liberals and the NZ Nationals.

    The Democrats sister parties are Labour and the SPD, hence Blair, Clinton and Schroder were so chummy.

    Nonsense. To start with, the only yardstick here is economic. Your understanding of Conservative is shaky too. You calling Trump a conservative? You can explain the difference between right wing populism and conservatism?

    The Conservatives are those practising fiscal conservatism, which Trump certainly didn’t.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,622
    nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: ⁦@grantshapps⁩ plan to let truckers work longer hours falls flat #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1442229490818723845/photo/1

    Another moronic proposal by this cesspit government hopefully bites the dust .
    It seemed to work ok at the start of the pandemic, without any noticeable increases in accidents, so why not relax the rules.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,575
    BigRich said:

    Scott_xP said:

    INDEPENDENT DIGITAL: Now half of petrol stations run out of fuel #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1442229012911177730/photo/1

    well it was 70% a few hours ago, according to a twiter reposted on here so maybe by the morning they will all be full again :)
    It's surprising there aren't more reliable stats on this. If the oil companies are going to prioritise (see earlier tweet about competition regulation), they will need to know where to send it.
  • Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: ⁦@grantshapps⁩ plan to let truckers work longer hours falls flat #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1442229490818723845/photo/1

    Another moronic proposal by this cesspit government hopefully bites the dust .
    You actually want the crisis to get worse

    Sad
    The crisis in government, or the crisis on the roads?
    On the roads

    And Shapp's attempt at deflection was embarrassing

  • HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    Social issues not even etched on the yardstick. Kate Hoey went hunting, but was rightly in the Labour Party for how she voted on economic questions.
    Social issues are the yardstick which makes you a conservative as well as support for inheritance, being economically Thatcherite could make you a classical liberal as much as a conservative
    Engels rode with the Cheshire Hunt.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713
    edited September 2021

    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    Social issues not even etched on the yardstick. Kate Hoey went hunting, but was rightly in the Labour Party for how she voted on economic questions.
    Social issues are the yardstick which makes you a conservative as well as support for inheritance, being economically Thatcherite could make you a classical liberal as much as a conservative
    I hope the rumours that Rishi is looking at inheritance tax are true
    If they are he can kiss goodbye to any chance of any hope of being Tory leader and PM, there would be a revolution amongst Tory MPs and grassroots and we would lose our poll lead.

    As May discovered in 2017 threatening to take peoples' inheritance is electoral suicide.

    As Osborne discovered in 2007 however IHT cut proposals are extremely popular
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,386
    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    I said that earlier, but HY and others disagreed with me. HY said some rubbish about its not an international yardstick, but yardstick for each nation. Which is rubbish and it means US Dems are ‘left’ on basis they are to the left of GOP.

    You are absolutely right Big G, Boris is nationalising, Biden will never consider, that is the sort of thing the yardstick is measured on.
    That is rubbish. Biden is far left of Boris on immigration or the culture wars for example or Brexit and the Irish Sea border.

    Biden is also proposing to raise more taxes on the rich than Boris is and to spend more than any US President since LBJ.

    The GOP are in the IDU with the Tories and the CDU/CSU, that does not mean they are ideologically identical but they are all the main conservative or centre right parties in their countries. As are other parties in the IDU like the Spanish PP, the Canadian Conservatives or the Australian Liberals and the NZ Nationals.

    The Democrats sister parties are Labour and the SPD, hence Blair, Clinton and Schroder were so chummy.

    I think you're sort of on the right track here, but it's futile bringing up Blair, Clinton and Schroder like nothing has changed in the last 15-20 years.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    Social issues not even etched on the yardstick. Kate Hoey went hunting, but was rightly in the Labour Party for how she voted on economic questions.
    Social issues are the yardstick which makes you a conservative as well as support for inheritance, being economically Thatcherite could make you a classical liberal as much as a conservative
    social issues are not the defining factor, economics is. Kate Hoey sitting with Labour a perfect example.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just seen that Kwasi is set to approve the RR mini-nuke reactors.

    I wonder if any of them will ever actually get built.

    Interesting.
    Indeed. It's a decision that's comes 8 years too late because Dave and George decided to get in bed with China.

    I do wonder what the subsidies for this will look like and what share of the liability the state will take on. RR isn't in any kind of financial position to take on all of the liability of a civilian nuclear programme.
    It doesn't require the eye-watering up-front investment in a single site, or a tiny handful of sites, though. It can be done in a much more incremental way, and the technology is pretty well established.
    Which is why it's an interesting (and good) decision. I'm not massively in favour of nuclear power as it is being done with a massive and unreliable EPR with a very high subsidised strike price.

    This could potentially be done with a much lower initial subsidy and once they've got it figured out incremental costs could be very low indeed. One of my colleagues compared it to a submarine programme (the top of the week), the first one will be expensive, late and people will slate it because it won't be what was promised. The ones that come after will be cheaper, faster and will bring improvements to the original that they couldn't figure out.
    Agree 100%.

    Nuclear tends to have rather less uptime than you like, with plants being taken off line for unscheduled maintenance rather more frequently than people might think.

    (PBers - give me your guess for EDF's French nuclear availability in 2020. That is, of 100 hours of theoretical uptime, how many hours were power stations actually able to generate power. For context, a modern CCGT has more than 99% availability.)

    Concentrated nuclear - i.e. one massive site - is therefore a really bad idea, because what if your 3GW nuclear plant happens comes off line at the same time the wind isn't blowing?

    Distributed small scale plants don't have this problem. Down for unscheduled maintenance? Well, that's 50-100MW off-line. In the general scheme of things, that's nothing.
    I think something like 75 hours for the French nuclear plants. A fair few of them are getting quite old I think, so they would have managed ~85 hours earlier in their lifespan.
    You're a bit high, it's usually in the mid to high 60s.

    But you are absolutely right that it used to be quite a bit better, as nuclear plants tend to go through three distinct stages:

    The first couple of years, when there are lots of kinks to work out, and when you probably only get 50% availability.

    And then a kind of magnificent maturity when you get 80-85%, and which hopefully lasts a decade or more.

    Then a steady increase in problems and issues as things get old and worn out.
    Sounds like the average bloke!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713

    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    Social issues not even etched on the yardstick. Kate Hoey went hunting, but was rightly in the Labour Party for how she voted on economic questions.
    Social issues are the yardstick which makes you a conservative as well as support for inheritance, being economically Thatcherite could make you a classical liberal as much as a conservative
    Engels rode with the Cheshire Hunt.
    He did not support inherited wealth nor the monarchy nor religion and as a Marxist globalist was pro open door immigration
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,647
    Freiburg has been won by the Greens.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 47,523
    edited September 2021
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    I never said he was near Corbyn or Rayner, but he is left of centre no matter what you may claim
    He isn't. if he was he would be increasing immigration, increasing welfare spending, increasing income tax and IHT and very woke
    Visa quotas increasing immigration, pension and benefits rises in April of approximately 3.4%, NI increases and rumours of inheritance tax changes rather contradicts your view
  • Is anyone else surprised that CDU has taken Neuwied?

    Judging by the name, surely it should be going for the Green!

    PS - smoke 'em I've you've got 'em . . .
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    Social issues not even etched on the yardstick. Kate Hoey went hunting, but was rightly in the Labour Party for how she voted on economic questions.
    Social issues are the yardstick which makes you a conservative as well as support for inheritance, being economically Thatcherite could make you a classical liberal as much as a conservative
    Engels rode with the Cheshire Hunt.
    He did not support inherited wealth nor the monarchy nor religion and as a Marxist globalist was pro open door immigration
    He benefited from inherited wealth though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713
    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    I said that earlier, but HY and others disagreed with me. HY said some rubbish about its not an international yardstick, but yardstick for each nation. Which is rubbish and it means US Dems are ‘left’ on basis they are to the left of GOP.

    You are absolutely right Big G, Boris is nationalising, Biden will never consider, that is the sort of thing the yardstick is measured on.
    That is rubbish. Biden is far left of Boris on immigration or the culture wars for example or Brexit and the Irish Sea border.

    Biden is also proposing to raise more taxes on the rich than Boris is and to spend more than any US President since LBJ.

    The GOP are in the IDU with the Tories and the CDU/CSU, that does not mean they are ideologically identical but they are all the main conservative or centre right parties in their countries. As are other parties in the IDU like the Spanish PP, the Canadian Conservatives or the Australian Liberals and the NZ Nationals.

    The Democrats sister parties are Labour and the SPD, hence Blair, Clinton and Schroder were so chummy.

    Nonsense. To start with, the only yardstick here is economic. Your understanding of Conservative is shaky too. You calling Trump a conservative? You can explain the difference between right wing populism and conservatism?

    The Conservatives are those practising fiscal conservatism, which Trump certainly didn’t.
    Trump is a conservative yes, he is a populist one but still a conservative, conservatives here have often supported tariffs as he did.

    Fiscal conservatism was practised by the Liberal Party in the 19th and postwar 20th century as much as the Conservatives
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713
    edited September 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    Social issues not even etched on the yardstick. Kate Hoey went hunting, but was rightly in the Labour Party for how she voted on economic questions.
    Social issues are the yardstick which makes you a conservative as well as support for inheritance, being economically Thatcherite could make you a classical liberal as much as a conservative
    Engels rode with the Cheshire Hunt.
    He did not support inherited wealth nor the monarchy nor religion and as a Marxist globalist was pro open door immigration
    He benefited from inherited wealth though.
    Yes well like many socialists it was do as I say not I do and once they benefited from a public school or grammar school education and inherited wealth they are happy to pull up the drawbridge for others
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,647
    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    Still 1.21 for Scholz to be next chancellor.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.176694234
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    Social issues not even etched on the yardstick. Kate Hoey went hunting, but was rightly in the Labour Party for how she voted on economic questions.
    Social issues are the yardstick which makes you a conservative as well as support for inheritance, being economically Thatcherite could make you a classical liberal as much as a conservative
    I hope the rumours that Rishi is looking at inheritance tax are true
    If they are he can kiss goodbye to any chance of any hope of being Tory leader and PM, there would be a revolution amongst Tory MPs and grassroots and we would lose our poll lead.

    As May discovered in 2017 threatening to take peoples' inheritance is electoral suicide.

    As Osborne discovered in 2007 however IHT cut proposals are extremely popular
    Another nonsense post to be rowed back on when it happens
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    I said that earlier, but HY and others disagreed with me. HY said some rubbish about its not an international yardstick, but yardstick for each nation. Which is rubbish and it means US Dems are ‘left’ on basis they are to the left of GOP.

    You are absolutely right Big G, Boris is nationalising, Biden will never consider, that is the sort of thing the yardstick is measured on.
    That is rubbish. Biden is far left of Boris on immigration or the culture wars for example or Brexit and the Irish Sea border.

    Biden is also proposing to raise more taxes on the rich than Boris is and to spend more than any US President since LBJ.

    The GOP are in the IDU with the Tories and the CDU/CSU, that does not mean they are ideologically identical but they are all the main conservative or centre right parties in their countries. As are other parties in the IDU like the Spanish PP, the Canadian Conservatives or the Australian Liberals and the NZ Nationals.

    The Democrats sister parties are Labour and the SPD, hence Blair, Clinton and Schroder were so chummy.

    I think you're sort of on the right track here, but it's futile bringing up Blair, Clinton and Schroder like nothing has changed in the last 15-20 years.
    Biden, Starmer and Scholz are ideologically not that much different either
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Farooq said:

    gealbhan said:

    Farooq said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    I said that earlier, but HY and others disagreed with me. HY said some rubbish about its not an international yardstick, but yardstick for each nation. Which is rubbish and it means US Dems are ‘left’ on basis they are to the left of GOP.

    You are absolutely right Big G, Boris is nationalising, Biden will never consider, that is the sort of thing the yardstick is measured on.
    You can choose one metric to compare two politicians on, and make one appear more left than the other.
    But taken across the piece, Biden is to the left of Boris, no question.
    I’m definitely questioning that! You are wrong. It’s who you vote with on economics, tax and spend, nationalise privatise, welfare or cut welfare that really matters, and that puts Biden and most Dems much to the right of Boris.
    Who you vote with is entirely irrelevant, what you vote for is what counts.
    Look down this nice summary. Much of what's in there falls into the first two categories:
    1. Yes, I could imagine Boris doing that.
    2. No, that's probably too left wing for Boris.
    3. No, that's probably too right wing for Boris.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden#Tax
    Thanks I had a look. I stand by what I said. UK and US in different place as nations. The US more right wing, more capitalist. They don’t have a left right split in politics like we have, two right of centre parties in relation to capitalism and socialism GOP and Dem voting actually come from the Civil War.

    Boris Downing Street is to the left economically to Biden’s White House.
  • Some come back from the SPD.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    I never said he was near Corbyn or Rayner, but he is left of centre no matter what you may claim
    He isn't. if he was he would be increasing immigration, increasing welfare spending, increasing income tax and IHT and very woke
    Visa quotas increasing immigration, pension and benefits rises in Apri, of approximately 3.4%, NI increases and rumours of inheritance tax changes rather contradicts your view
    A points system to replace EU free movement, triple lock ended and pensions frozen, NI raised to avoid income tax and IHT rises and most nations fund healthcare through insurance anyway
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    Social issues not even etched on the yardstick. Kate Hoey went hunting, but was rightly in the Labour Party for how she voted on economic questions.
    Social issues are the yardstick which makes you a conservative as well as support for inheritance, being economically Thatcherite could make you a classical liberal as much as a conservative
    I hope the rumours that Rishi is looking at inheritance tax are true
    If they are he can kiss goodbye to any chance of any hope of being Tory leader and PM, there would be a revolution amongst Tory MPs and grassroots and we would lose our poll lead.

    As May discovered in 2017 threatening to take peoples' inheritance is electoral suicide.

    As Osborne discovered in 2007 however IHT cut proposals are extremely popular
    Another nonsense post to be rowed back on when it happens
    And I think what polling on this we have the general population back on on this Big G.

    However, where HY might be right, an important section of Tory support may be in the oppose column?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just seen that Kwasi is set to approve the RR mini-nuke reactors.

    I wonder if any of them will ever actually get built.

    I think they're based on the PWR3 design that RR did for the Dreadnought class submarines.

    (And yes, I know that a chunk of the design of PWR3 is American.)
    Which is interesting because that's a highly enriched uranium reactor. The safety implications of that in a civilian nuclear programme will be extremely negative.
    Perhaps not:

    "It would use 4.95% enriched fuel"

    From this:
    https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/nuclear-power-reactors/small-nuclear-power-reactors.aspx
    and this:
    https://aris.iaea.org/PDF/UK-SMR_2020.pdf

    So if they are correct, then the RR SMR would use low-enriched uranium.
    Show me a Tory MP that wants a RollsRoyce mini-nuke in their constituency.
    You don't need to distribute them widely, the national grid still exists. The point of these is that they are manufactured on a production line (sort of) and then shipped to a location. One imagines you'd put 10-15 of these in a single location, probably those places where nuclear power plants already exist, given the infrastructure also already exists there.
    Well stuff that. I am in the 3Okm blast zone of Hinckley Point and a similar distance from @MarqueeMark 's Swansea Bay Barrage. I know which one I want In my back yard. The one with no potential for mushroom clouds.
    I grew up near to the AWRE and was always strangely comforted that I’d be wiped out on the first strike rather than suffer some long lingering death…
  • HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    I said that earlier, but HY and others disagreed with me. HY said some rubbish about its not an international yardstick, but yardstick for each nation. Which is rubbish and it means US Dems are ‘left’ on basis they are to the left of GOP.

    You are absolutely right Big G, Boris is nationalising, Biden will never consider, that is the sort of thing the yardstick is measured on.
    That is rubbish. Biden is far left of Boris on immigration or the culture wars for example or Brexit and the Irish Sea border.

    Biden is also proposing to raise more taxes on the rich than Boris is and to spend more than any US President since LBJ.

    The GOP are in the IDU with the Tories and the CDU/CSU, that does not mean they are ideologically identical but they are all the main conservative or centre right parties in their countries. As are other parties in the IDU like the Spanish PP, the Canadian Conservatives or the Australian Liberals and the NZ Nationals.

    The Democrats sister parties are Labour and the SPD, hence Blair, Clinton and Schroder were so chummy.

    The Democrats are NOT members of The Progressive Alliance OR the Socialist International.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,386
    gealbhan said:

    Farooq said:

    gealbhan said:

    Farooq said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    I said that earlier, but HY and others disagreed with me. HY said some rubbish about its not an international yardstick, but yardstick for each nation. Which is rubbish and it means US Dems are ‘left’ on basis they are to the left of GOP.

    You are absolutely right Big G, Boris is nationalising, Biden will never consider, that is the sort of thing the yardstick is measured on.
    You can choose one metric to compare two politicians on, and make one appear more left than the other.
    But taken across the piece, Biden is to the left of Boris, no question.
    I’m definitely questioning that! You are wrong. It’s who you vote with on economics, tax and spend, nationalise privatise, welfare or cut welfare that really matters, and that puts Biden and most Dems much to the right of Boris.
    Who you vote with is entirely irrelevant, what you vote for is what counts.
    Look down this nice summary. Much of what's in there falls into the first two categories:
    1. Yes, I could imagine Boris doing that.
    2. No, that's probably too left wing for Boris.
    3. No, that's probably too right wing for Boris.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden#Tax
    Thanks I had a look. I stand by what I said. UK and US in different place as nations. The US more right wing, more capitalist. They don’t have a left right split in politics like we have, two right of centre parties in relation to capitalism and socialism GOP and Dem voting actually come from the Civil War.

    Boris Downing Street is to the left economically to Biden’s White House.
    Appreciate what you're saying about America being generally to the right of Britain, but I think the overlap is stronger than you seem to. In any case, we'll agree to disagree. From a voting point of view, I wouldn't go for either unless forced to by circumstance (that is, I would have voted anti-Trump), so I don't really have any stake in this.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,196
    GUARDIAN: Petrol Crisis: PM to rule on army to deliver fuel #TomorrowsPapeesToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1442235561494732801/photo/1
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713
    edited September 2021
    gealbhan said:

    Farooq said:

    gealbhan said:

    Farooq said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    I said that earlier, but HY and others disagreed with me. HY said some rubbish about its not an international yardstick, but yardstick for each nation. Which is rubbish and it means US Dems are ‘left’ on basis they are to the left of GOP.

    You are absolutely right Big G, Boris is nationalising, Biden will never consider, that is the sort of thing the yardstick is measured on.
    You can choose one metric to compare two politicians on, and make one appear more left than the other.
    But taken across the piece, Biden is to the left of Boris, no question.
    I’m definitely questioning that! You are wrong. It’s who you vote with on economics, tax and spend, nationalise privatise, welfare or cut welfare that really matters, and that puts Biden and most Dems much to the right of Boris.
    Who you vote with is entirely irrelevant, what you vote for is what counts.
    Look down this nice summary. Much of what's in there falls into the first two categories:
    1. Yes, I could imagine Boris doing that.
    2. No, that's probably too left wing for Boris.
    3. No, that's probably too right wing for Boris.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden#Tax
    Thanks I had a look. I stand by what I said. UK and US in different place as nations. The US more right wing, more capitalist. They don’t have a left right split in politics like we have, two right of centre parties in relation to capitalism and socialism GOP and Dem voting actually come from the Civil War.

    Boris Downing Street is to the left economically to Biden’s White House.
    No it isn't, Biden is left of Boris. Though you could equally make the argument that the Nordic countries conservative parties are sometimes left of the UK Labour Party, certainly New Labour let alone the Tories.

    The US is the most rightwing nation in the western world on most issues (apart from maybe Switzerland) so obviously its politics are more rightwing. I would accept Boris is left of Trump however he is not left of Biden and certainly not left of Sanders.

    When we had Thatcher as PM though she was so rightwing in UK terms she was even right of the GOP president in her final term, Bush Snr. Indeed in the 1992 presidential election my parents had some friends who stayed with NH Republicans and they said they wished they had Thatcher as President not Bush. She was certainly closer to Reagan
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,788
    edited September 2021

    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    Social issues not even etched on the yardstick. Kate Hoey went hunting, but was rightly in the Labour Party for how she voted on economic questions.
    Social issues are the yardstick which makes you a conservative as well as support for inheritance, being economically Thatcherite could make you a classical liberal as much as a conservative
    Engels rode with the Cheshire Hunt.
    Also disapproved of Karl Marx's mistress, for being "too common"

    It always amuses me to see Engels' name on a blue plaque in Primrose Hill, on a house which must be worth £3-5m now

    You just know he would have *enjoyed* the money
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Per betfair SPD have won. Thanks to @NickPalmer for the tip when it was 1.3.

    If true then Boris will indeed be the only conservative leader left in the G7 apart from Japan (if you count the LDP as conservative which is debatable given their name).

    The last time there was only 1 conservative in the G7 was Chirac from 1998-2000, again an equally charismatic figure like Boris able to defy the western tide to the centre left
    I am not sure if you have noticed, but Boris has moved noticeably to the left so there is only Japan left then
    He is still the leader of the main Conservative Party in the UK and his cut to UC and ending of free movement from the EU for example are hardly centre left actions.

    Though yes he has positioned himself generally in the relative centre ground
    Time for for Rishi to ameliorate the UC cut but he is left of centre and some distance from the right of the party
    He is not left of centre, he is centrist on economics, populist on culture and social issues, he is miles away from Rayner and Corbyn.

    He is not a pure Thatcherite but then most Tory PMs aren't
    I never said he was near Corbyn or Rayner, but he is left of centre no matter what you may claim
    He isn't. if he was he would be increasing immigration, increasing welfare spending, increasing income tax and IHT and very woke
    Visa quotas increasing immigration, pension and benefits rises in Apri, of approximately 3.4%, NI increases and rumours of inheritance tax changes rather contradicts your view
    A points system to replace EU free movement, triple lock ended and pensions frozen, NI raised to avoid income tax and IHT rises and most nations fund healthcare through insurance anyway
    Pensions are not frozen, they rise by cpi in April if above 2.5% and current forecast is 3.4%

    NI rise is not connected to the rumoured rise in IHT and is nowhere near enough for social care

    And I have no idea what you are talking about most fund health care through insurance, a privileged few maybe

    I cannot believe you write such nonsense
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,647
    Map of the results, clickable.

    https://www.election.de/cgi-bin/showres_btw21.pl
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,196
    MAIL: Smart M-Ways horrors exposed #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1442236489497300992/photo/1
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,829

    Some come back from the SPD.

    22.52 score - looks pretty firm now - SPD 26, CDU 24.5, Greens 13.9, FDP 11.5, AfD 11.5, Linke 5.0 (probably just safe but the main remaining uncertainty). That makes Red-Green-Red mathrmatically impossible, so SPD-Green-FDP still the most likely.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,196
    Are there any odds on Shapps to be next out of cabinet?
  • Some come back from the SPD.

    Question is, is it a true renaissance, or dead-cat bounce?

    Zeit und Scholz will tell. But clearly there's still some kick left in the old lady in red!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,018
    @HYUFD and other PB Tories:

    "UK suspends competition law to boost fuel supplies"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58701620

    But wait... I thought competition was the solution to everything?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,575

    @HYUFD and other PB Tories:

    "UK suspends competition law to boost fuel supplies"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58701620

    But wait... I thought competition was the solution to everything?

    You must admit the circumstances aren't normal!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,647
    Still not certain which party will head the new coalition in Germany. Union + Greens + FDP have majority of seats.
This discussion has been closed.