I note the free speech brigade are trying to shut Rayner down, whilst I think her comments will do absolutely nothing to get people voting Labour, I do want to draw attention to the obvious hypocrisy that is around. If BoJo had said such a thing people would be saying "ah Boris, what a lad he is". Why is Rayner different?
I was reminded by a Tweet earlier that at every recent Labour conference there's some level of infighting, "Labour is in chaos" etc even with the Deputy Leader doing or saying something similar, even when Labour won elections. Of course the difference was that the leaders's speech at the end changed it all, so this is really "now or never" for Keir Starmer.
The changes Starmer wishes to make seem to be set to now go through with UNISON's backing, which will prevent morons - including myself - from being able to vote a Corbyn character into the leadership ever again. Which can only be a good thing.
I am also encouraged that Starmer is now taking a pragmatic view on nationalisation. I think railways should be nationalised no question but energy companies? That just seems ideological to me - and Starmer getting away from that is a good move.
Nobody feels any pain Tonight as I stand inside the rain Everybody knows that baby's got new clothes But lately I see her ribbons and her bows Have fallen from her curls
She takes just like a cis woman Yes, she does, she makes love just like a cis woman Yes, she does, and she aches just like a cis woman But she breaks just like a little cis girl
Well they're clearly not going to turn the other one which would make a lot of sense. He ought also to remember that while the French are European, europe is not France.
And someone decided to write a newspaper article about this phenomenon? One thing wrong about this country: its cultural cringe towards posh twits in fee-paying schools. Nauseating stuff. I'm with George Bernard Shaw: burn down the lot and sow salt in the ashes.
Hate to break it to you, but twits no longer get into the fee-paying schools you've heard of, nor into the Ivy League.
Are you also with Shaw in insisting Hitler and Mussolini should be judged by results, in thinking that freedom was a worthless political value, and in wanting to sterilise or exxterminate the socially unfit?
Relatedly, I watched American Psycho for the first time last night. Brilliant. How long ago all that seems now, and what an aching irony that when he leaves the restaurant after breaking up with his fiancee there's a gorgeous shot of the twin towers. The film came out in 2000.
I suppose you think you've made some sort of killer point in all that, but I'm struggling to identify what it could be.
American psycho is irrelevant. But I'm thinking that someone who wants people killed in the gas chambers for having Down's syndrome would not be my go-to guy on other social issues, either. You must make your own mind up, though. I'm sure there is much to be said on both sides of the argument.
Christian Bale's performance in the film was remarkable. It was difficult to believe he was British when watching it.
I note the free speech brigade are trying to shut Rayner down, whilst I think her comments will do absolutely nothing to get people voting Labour, I do want to draw attention to the obvious hypocrisy that is around. If BoJo had said such a thing people would be saying "ah Boris, what a lad he is". Why is Rayner different?
I was reminded by a Tweet earlier that at every recent Labour conference there's some level of infighting, "Labour is in chaos" etc even with the Deputy Leader doing or saying something similar, even when Labour won elections. Of course the difference was that the leaders's speech at the end changed it all, so this is really "now or never" for Keir Starmer.
The changes Starmer wishes to make seem to be set to now go through with UNISON's backing, which will prevent morons - including myself - from being able to vote a Corbyn character into the leadership ever again. Which can only be a good thing.
I am also encouraged that Starmer is now taking a pragmatic view on nationalisation. I think railways should be nationalised no question but energy companies? That just seems ideological to me - and Starmer getting away from that is a good move.
I don't think anyone has said she shouldn't be allowed to say what she said. Most, like you have just done, were simply pointing out how unhelpful it was.
An article on some of the tail-chasing self-absorption that is definitely an issue currently on some parts of the Left, and that Leon and some other posters might like - an apparent set-to against white feminists by other feminists.
So. Half an hour to German exit poll. What does everyone think?
That clip of the CDU guy laughing during his visit to the Rhineland flood-devastated town will put him in second place. What happens thereafter is up to the SPD. They will have to choose between getting the FPD or Linke on board (assuming they already have an offer ready to pitch to the Greens). They’d be best advised to woo the FDP; Linke’s peculiar mix of unreconstructed communists in the east and young radical Corbynites in the west doesn’t suggest a basis for a stable coalition.
Things will certainly be much simpler if the SPD do come first.
I note the free speech brigade are trying to shut Rayner down, whilst I think her comments will do absolutely nothing to get people voting Labour, I do want to draw attention to the obvious hypocrisy that is around. If BoJo had said such a thing people would be saying "ah Boris, what a lad he is". Why is Rayner different?
I was reminded by a Tweet earlier that at every recent Labour conference there's some level of infighting, "Labour is in chaos" etc even with the Deputy Leader doing or saying something similar, even when Labour won elections. Of course the difference was that the leaders's speech at the end changed it all, so this is really "now or never" for Keir Starmer.
The changes Starmer wishes to make seem to be set to now go through with UNISON's backing, which will prevent morons - including myself - from being able to vote a Corbyn character into the leadership ever again. Which can only be a good thing.
I am also encouraged that Starmer is now taking a pragmatic view on nationalisation. I think railways should be nationalised no question but energy companies? That just seems ideological to me - and Starmer getting away from that is a good move.
Listen up chum. If Angela Rayner is going to slag of Boris by calling him and his colleagues scum, she is fair game. Enough people slag of Boris on here and have been slagging him off about his private life and I don't seem to recall you reproving them.
For centuries of our country’s history we have been concerned about, and engaged with, what is happening on the other side of the Channel. That the buffoons and morons currently comprising our government think they can chart a different path defies all credible belief.
Except where it belongs, which is selfish twats filling cars to the brim when there was no need at all, given they hardly ever leave the drive.....
Agree but it seems to be human nature. I'm struggling to understand how 33% manage to blame the last Labour Govt. Much as I can see many might want to, it is an stretch.
That probably just shows a base level Tory tribal vote, picking the most favourable option whether they believe it or not.
Here's a stab at how it could be Labour's fault.
This petrol panic is about the market turmoil from a shortage of HGV drivers.
Labour let the FOM influx of Eastern European in on their watch, knowing what would happen to pay rates of lower paid workers. This meant that in many areas, the normal laws of supply and demand got misaligned from their natural levels, as supply became pretty much infinitely elastic. This held down wage levels, resulting in fewer UK nationals training to become HGV drivers.
There has now been a massive market correction because lots of the cheap labour has vanished over the last year or so - partly Brexit, mainly Covid (it's much less fun being cheap labour in the UK if you can't Easyjet your way home to see family for a weekend at £20 a go every month or two).
Had Labour not let that influx of cheap labor come in the first place, we wouldn't suddenly be in a roller-coaster of a mega correction now, as the market would have operated normally over the last 15 years or so - so wages would have risen gradually, more drivers would have been trained, lorry operators would have put more effort into maximising productivity etc...
I don't think it's just Labour's fault, but it's not unreasonable to assign them a share of the blame.
Wow!
Well I am tempted to blame Aneurin Bevan for the woes of the NHS for the last decade, oh, and Ted Heath for Brexit.
A well-argued POV - and you are reduced to taking the piss because you don't like it's underlying assumptions.
Yes, but you only agree with a rather far fetched thesis because of your partisanship. There again 33% of 2019 Conservative voters (a whopping 15% of the entire voting electorate) concurr, so what do I know?
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described.
You might become slightly less bored by the topic when a teacher turns up at the school your daughter goes to and it turns out that they are a man who has legally become a woman in Scotland (if Sturgeon's GRA changes go through) after three months without any medical diagnosis of dysphoria and without having transitioned in any way and that such a teacher can access the loos and changing rooms your daughter uses.
This is inferring easier transition will likely lead to deviant men gaming the system, something not supported by evidence from countries that have such a system. The other problem is it erroneously links 'trans' with 'perverts', which leads to prejudice and bigotry.
I actually find your philosophical ‘TERF’ arguments stronger. That self-ID represents a trivializing of womanhood. The obvious retort is what about female to male trans, but I guess you’d say, well, yes, but men are secure in their status/power in our (still) patriarchal society, so feel no need to kick up a fuss, which is a good point. My other retort would be that women are more supportive of transpeople than men are, most see no conflict with their own rights, and this is particularly true of younger women, where it’s overwhelming, but to this I guess you’d say, well, yes, because it’s older generation women who remember the fierce fights for equality, hence are more sensitive to encroachments, also a good point.
And is this men telling women what to think? I see why you say this but, no, I don’t think that’s fair. There are loads of men on the anti side of the debate and loads of women on the pro. I don’t see it as a male v female issue at all, to me it’s about allowing this small group of people to be themselves. Changing gender seems odd but I can imagine that one day it’ll be as “shrug” as homosexuality (almost) is today, in which case these battles will be looked back upon in a similar light to those around that. But who knows. The antis are strong at the moment, their arguments resonate, and I haven’t a clue where it’s going longer term.
Please do not call me a TERF.
I have to go now. But I did respond to your questions to me on the thread header I wrote the other day. Right at the end. Not going to repeat here. Just wanted to let you know that I did not ignore your questions.
Your first paragraph is very naive, btw. If anything the evidence - such as it is (too early to say) goes the other way.
Nor do I think this a generational issue. Daughter does not care if people want to transition but very firmly against transwomen competing in women's sports.
Anyway, have a nice day all.
A wonderful debate of men telling women what to think.
Nobody feels any pain Tonight as I stand inside the rain Everybody knows that baby's got new clothes But lately I see her ribbons and her bows Have fallen from her curls
She takes just like a cis woman Yes, she does, she makes love just like a cis woman Yes, she does, and she aches just like a cis woman But she breaks just like a little cis girl
Re Germany. Well, more musing really. And haven't googled. Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right? It can't be Boris, can it?
I note the free speech brigade are trying to shut Rayner down, whilst I think her comments will do absolutely nothing to get people voting Labour, I do want to draw attention to the obvious hypocrisy that is around. If BoJo had said such a thing people would be saying "ah Boris, what a lad he is". Why is Rayner different?
I was reminded by a Tweet earlier that at every recent Labour conference there's some level of infighting, "Labour is in chaos" etc even with the Deputy Leader doing or saying something similar, even when Labour won elections. Of course the difference was that the leaders's speech at the end changed it all, so this is really "now or never" for Keir Starmer.
The changes Starmer wishes to make seem to be set to now go through with UNISON's backing, which will prevent morons - including myself - from being able to vote a Corbyn character into the leadership ever again. Which can only be a good thing.
I am also encouraged that Starmer is now taking a pragmatic view on nationalisation. I think railways should be nationalised no question but energy companies? That just seems ideological to me - and Starmer getting away from that is a good move.
You tempted by the labour lead bet a second time, CHB ?
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described.
You might become slightly less bored by the topic when a teacher turns up at the school your daughter goes to and it turns out that they are a man who has legally become a woman in Scotland (if Sturgeon's GRA changes go through) after three months without any medical diagnosis of dysphoria and without having transitioned in any way and that such a teacher can access the loos and changing rooms your daughter uses.
This is inferring easier transition will likely lead to deviant men gaming the system, something not supported by evidence from countries that have such a system. The other problem is it erroneously links 'trans' with 'perverts', which leads to prejudice and bigotry.
I actually find your philosophical ‘TERF’ arguments stronger. That self-ID represents a trivializing of womanhood. The obvious retort is what about female to male trans, but I guess you’d say, well, yes, but men are secure in their status/power in our (still) patriarchal society, so feel no need to kick up a fuss, which is a good point. My other retort would be that women are more supportive of transpeople than men are, most see no conflict with their own rights, and this is particularly true of younger women, where it’s overwhelming, but to this I guess you’d say, well, yes, because it’s older generation women who remember the fierce fights for equality, hence are more sensitive to encroachments, also a good point.
And is this men telling women what to think? I see why you say this but, no, I don’t think that’s fair. There are loads of men on the anti side of the debate and loads of women on the pro. I don’t see it as a male v female issue at all, to me it’s about allowing this small group of people to be themselves. Changing gender seems odd but I can imagine that one day it’ll be as “shrug” as homosexuality (almost) is today, in which case these battles will be looked back upon in a similar light to those around that. But who knows. The antis are strong at the moment, their arguments resonate, and I haven’t a clue where it’s going longer term.
Please do not call me a TERF.
I have to go now. But I did respond to your questions to me on the thread header I wrote the other day. Right at the end. Not going to repeat here. Just wanted to let you know that I did not ignore your questions.
Your first paragraph is very naive, btw. If anything the evidence - such as it is (too early to say) goes the other way.
Nor do I think this a generational issue. Daughter does not care if people want to transition but very firmly against transwomen competing in women's sports.
Anyway, have a nice day all.
For someone who denies TERFism, you do seem to repeat an awful lot of TERF talking points Cyclefree.
Perhaps if you don’t like the moniker, you could think about why it might be being applied?
Re Germany. Well, more musing really. And haven't googled. Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right? It can't be Boris, can it?
It was. If the SPD win tonight then Boris will be the only centre right leader of a G7 nation left apart from the PM of Japan.
Would show how well Boris has done and is doing to still have a poll lead given a post Covid social democratic tide in the western world rather like the tide to the centre left in the late 1990s
Re Germany. Well, more musing really. And haven't googled. Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right? It can't be Boris, can it?
After Biden the runes do suggest that the centre-left might be best positioned to capitalise on the mood of the post-pandemic world. Our weakness is that neither Labour nor the LibDems appear match fit enough to catch the ball. Our clown’s survival depends upon how well he is able to govern from the centre-left while duping his party, through the empty posturing and symbolism that they love, that he remains on the right.
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described.
You might become slightly less bored by the topic when a teacher turns up at the school your daughter goes to and it turns out that they are a man who has legally become a woman in Scotland (if Sturgeon's GRA changes go through) after three months without any medical diagnosis of dysphoria and without having transitioned in any way and that such a teacher can access the loos and changing rooms your daughter uses.
This is inferring easier transition will likely lead to deviant men gaming the system, something not supported by evidence from countries that have such a system. The other problem is it erroneously links 'trans' with 'perverts', which leads to prejudice and bigotry.
I actually find your philosophical ‘TERF’ arguments stronger. That self-ID represents a trivializing of womanhood. The obvious retort is what about female to male trans, but I guess you’d say, well, yes, but men are secure in their status/power in our (still) patriarchal society, so feel no need to kick up a fuss, which is a good point. My other retort would be that women are more supportive of transpeople than men are, most see no conflict with their own rights, and this is particularly true of younger women, where it’s overwhelming, but to this I guess you’d say, well, yes, because it’s older generation women who remember the fierce fights for equality, hence are more sensitive to encroachments, also a good point.
And is this men telling women what to think? I see why you say this but, no, I don’t think that’s fair. There are loads of men on the anti side of the debate and loads of women on the pro. I don’t see it as a male v female issue at all, to me it’s about allowing this small group of people to be themselves. Changing gender seems odd but I can imagine that one day it’ll be as “shrug” as homosexuality (almost) is today, in which case these battles will be looked back upon in a similar light to those around that. But who knows. The antis are strong at the moment, their arguments resonate, and I haven’t a clue where it’s going longer term.
Please do not call me a TERF.
I have to go now. But I did respond to your questions to me on the thread header I wrote the other day. Right at the end. Not going to repeat here. Just wanted to let you know that I did not ignore your questions.
Your first paragraph is very naive, btw. If anything the evidence - such as it is (too early to say) goes the other way.
Nor do I think this a generational issue. Daughter does not care if people want to transition but very firmly against transwomen competing in women's sports.
Anyway, have a nice day all.
For someone who denies TERFism, you do seem to repeat an awful lot of TERF talking points Cyclefree.
Perhaps if you don’t like the moniker, you could think about why it might be being applied?
To predispose people toward the arguer rather than than the argument? The same reason people slap labels on most people as broadly as possible.
Re Germany. Well, more musing really. And haven't googled. Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right? It can't be Boris, can it?
It was. If the SPD win tonight then Boris will be the only centre right leader of a G7 nation left apart from the PM of Japan.
Would show how well Boris has done given a post Covid social democratic tide rather like the tide to the centre left in the late 1990s
Somewhat difficult to categorise Japan. It's always the same Party.
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described.
You might become slightly less bored by the topic when a teacher turns up at the school your daughter goes to and it turns out that they are a man who has legally become a woman in Scotland (if Sturgeon's GRA changes go through) after three months without any medical diagnosis of dysphoria and without having transitioned in any way and that such a teacher can access the loos and changing rooms your daughter uses.
This is inferring easier transition will likely lead to deviant men gaming the system, something not supported by evidence from countries that have such a system. The other problem is it erroneously links 'trans' with 'perverts', which leads to prejudice and bigotry.
I actually find your philosophical ‘TERF’ arguments stronger. That self-ID represents a trivializing of womanhood. The obvious retort is what about female to male trans, but I guess you’d say, well, yes, but men are secure in their status/power in our (still) patriarchal society, so feel no need to kick up a fuss, which is a good point. My other retort would be that women are more supportive of transpeople than men are, most see no conflict with their own rights, and this is particularly true of younger women, where it’s overwhelming, but to this I guess you’d say, well, yes, because it’s older generation women who remember the fierce fights for equality, hence are more sensitive to encroachments, also a good point.
And is this men telling women what to think? I see why you say this but, no, I don’t think that’s fair. There are loads of men on the anti side of the debate and loads of women on the pro. I don’t see it as a male v female issue at all, to me it’s about allowing this small group of people to be themselves. Changing gender seems odd but I can imagine that one day it’ll be as “shrug” as homosexuality (almost) is today, in which case these battles will be looked back upon in a similar light to those around that. But who knows. The antis are strong at the moment, their arguments resonate, and I haven’t a clue where it’s going longer term.
Please do not call me a TERF.
I have to go now. But I did respond to your questions to me on the thread header I wrote the other day. Right at the end. Not going to repeat here. Just wanted to let you know that I did not ignore your questions.
Your first paragraph is very naive, btw. If anything the evidence - such as it is (too early to say) goes the other way.
Nor do I think this a generational issue. Daughter does not care if people want to transition but very firmly against transwomen competing in women's sports.
Anyway, have a nice day all.
For someone who denies TERFism, you do seem to repeat an awful lot of TERF talking points Cyclefree.
Perhaps if you don’t like the moniker, you could think about why it might be being applied?
Mansplain to her a bit more, you can join Kinabalu in the club of white men telling women to know their role.
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described.
You might become slightly less bored by the topic when a teacher turns up at the school your daughter goes to and it turns out that they are a man who has legally become a woman in Scotland (if Sturgeon's GRA changes go through) after three months without any medical diagnosis of dysphoria and without having transitioned in any way and that such a teacher can access the loos and changing rooms your daughter uses.
That’s a good point. The trans issue does not especially interest me now (except as a satisfied spectator of lefty civil wars) - but I have two daughters. Hmm
One thing that does bug me is Starmer’s insistence (restated again today) that trans people are ‘the most marginalized of communities’ Is there anything to back this up? If there is, does it explain the modern Left’s obsession with trans rights - ie in their pursuit of intersectional privilege, or lack of, are trans people the intersect which meets maximum bigotry and hatred?
I have my doubts there are enough trans people to make the data reliable, but who knows
Trans people are protected under the Equality Act.
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described. and changing rooms your daughter uses.
I respect your position @Cyclefree but you have to also recognise that plenty of women do not feel their sex-based rights are under threat in the same way you do.
Refusing to collect data about it is both daft and potentially dangerous.
I refused to answer questions about my gender identity and sexuality on the diversity form to join my new employer.
They've still confirmed my appointment. So good so far, but I suspect I'll find a dissenting line hard to navigate at director level.
I wouldn't worry about it. The best thing to do is simply ignore the bullshit. That's what I do. I've also actively pushed back on something called "alignment groups" without any repercussions. The idea was that all the Asians or Jews or women could align themselves and ask for special treatment. It's something that's come over from our US office and I refused to implement them for my team by saying they'd be divisive. I argued my case to the directors and they agreed so junked them for London.
Thanks Max. I also heard on Friday from a colleague of mine that my old (well, current for the next 3 weeks) firm has just hired an EDI advisor, and we all know what that means.
Looks like I got out just in time. I hope in my new firm, in my new position, I can find the courage to do what you did and push back against the more divisive lunacies of this.
So we are not allowed to.talk about Rayner and her appalling comment. .. but its all right though for Boris to.be slagged off then.. strikes me as odd...
Who has stopped you talking about Rayner's indiscretion? I have only been on occasionally so I have missed it.
Re Germany. Well, more musing really. And haven't googled. Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right? It can't be Boris, can it?
After Biden the runes do suggest that the centre-left might be best positioned to capitalise on the mood of the post-pandemic world. Our weakness is that neither Labour nor the LibDems appear match fit enough to catch the ball.
To be honest I think a huge opportunity has opened for the lib dems in remain areas
They should commit to joining the single market and freedom of movement at GE24 without rejoining the EU
They are not going to win red wall seats but labour have the real problem that it would be a very negative issue in the red wall if they did the same
Re Germany. Well, more musing really. And haven't googled. Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right? It can't be Boris, can it?
It was. If the SPD win tonight then Boris will be the only centre right leader of a G7 nation left apart from the PM of Japan.
Would show how well Boris has done given a post Covid social democratic tide rather like the tide to the centre left in the late 1990s
Somewhat difficult to categorise Japan. It's always the same Party.
Largely, though it did have PMs from the centre left Democratic Party from 2009 to 2012 (and a Socialist PM briefly from 1994 to 1996) even if the centre right LDP are back in power now
I note the free speech brigade are trying to shut Rayner down, whilst I think her comments will do absolutely nothing to get people voting Labour, I do want to draw attention to the obvious hypocrisy that is around. If BoJo had said such a thing people would be saying "ah Boris, what a lad he is". Why is Rayner different?
I was reminded by a Tweet earlier that at every recent Labour conference there's some level of infighting, "Labour is in chaos" etc even with the Deputy Leader doing or saying something similar, even when Labour won elections. Of course the difference was that the leaders's speech at the end changed it all, so this is really "now or never" for Keir Starmer.
The changes Starmer wishes to make seem to be set to now go through with UNISON's backing, which will prevent morons - including myself - from being able to vote a Corbyn character into the leadership ever again. Which can only be a good thing.
I am also encouraged that Starmer is now taking a pragmatic view on nationalisation. I think railways should be nationalised no question but energy companies? That just seems ideological to me - and Starmer getting away from that is a good move.
Listen up chum. If Angela Rayner is going to slag of Boris by calling him and his colleagues scum, she is fair game. Enough people slag of Boris on here and have been slagging him off about his private life and I don't seem to recall you reproving them.
Boris is a lazy, self-regarding, unprincipled, lying lump of lard with the morals of a pig. How does stating those obvious facts constitute "slagging him off," and more interestingly why do you thrust yourself forward time and time again as his unsolicited (presumably) champion to protest his moral purity and loveliness? What's in it for you?
Another way of looking at it might be that she's building a brand - "authentic gobby Angela" , but with somewhat moderated actual policy, and without some of Corbyn's toxic historical baggage on areas like the IRA and Iran.
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described.
You might become slightly less bored by the topic when a teacher turns up at the school your daughter goes to and it turns out that they are a man who has legally become a woman in Scotland (if Sturgeon's GRA changes go through) after three months without any medical diagnosis of dysphoria and without having transitioned in any way and that such a teacher can access the loos and changing rooms your daughter uses.
This is inferring easier transition will likely lead to deviant men gaming the system, something not supported by evidence from countries that have such a system. The other problem is it erroneously links 'trans' with 'perverts', which leads to prejudice and bigotry.
I actually find your philosophical ‘TERF’ arguments stronger. That self-ID represents a trivializing of womanhood. The obvious retort is what about female to male trans, but I guess you’d say, well, yes, but men are secure in their status/power in our (still) patriarchal society, so feel no need to kick up a fuss, which is a good point. My other retort would be that women are more supportive of transpeople than men are, most see no conflict with their own rights, and this is particularly true of younger women, where it’s overwhelming, but to this I guess you’d say, well, yes, because it’s older generation women who remember the fierce fights for equality, hence are more sensitive to encroachments, also a good point.
And is this men telling women what to think? I see why you say this but, no, I don’t think that’s fair. There are loads of men on the anti side of the debate and loads of women on the pro. I don’t see it as a male v female issue at all, to me it’s about allowing this small group of people to be themselves. Changing gender seems odd but I can imagine that one day it’ll be as “shrug” as homosexuality (almost) is today, in which case these battles will be looked back upon in a similar light to those around that. But who knows. The antis are strong at the moment, their arguments resonate, and I haven’t a clue where it’s going longer term.
Please do not call me a TERF.
I have to go now. But I did respond to your questions to me on the thread header I wrote the other day. Right at the end. Not going to repeat here. Just wanted to let you know that I did not ignore your questions.
Your first paragraph is very naive, btw. If anything the evidence - such as it is (too early to say) goes the other way.
Nor do I think this a generational issue. Daughter does not care if people want to transition but very firmly against transwomen competing in women's sports.
Anyway, have a nice day all.
For someone who denies TERFism, you do seem to repeat an awful lot of TERF talking points Cyclefree.
Perhaps if you don’t like the moniker, you could think about why it might be being applied?
Wow, another man telling a woman what to think. It’s a great look. Cyclefree, know your place, Phil is speaking Mansplain a little more to her.
Re Germany. Well, more musing really. And haven't googled. Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right? It can't be Boris, can it?
It was. If the SPD win tonight then Boris will be the only centre right leader of a G7 nation left apart from the PM of Japan.
Would show how well Boris has done given a post Covid social democratic tide in the western world rather like the tide to the centre left in the late 1990s
Anyone care to speculate why that might be? Thinking of the trend, rather than Johnson. We discussed him plenty. A recognition that society is actually more fragile than it normally appears? And that we depend quite heavily on public services, even if we don’t like paying for them? Or. Like 1945, no great yearning to return to the status quo ante? Or has Trump, and anti-vax, anti-lockdown conspiracies queered the pitch for the right? Or has a decade of generally right wing government since GFC let folk down? Or a bit of all of this?
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described.
You might become slightly less bored by the topic when a teacher turns up at the school your daughter goes to and it turns out that they are a man who has legally become a woman in Scotland (if Sturgeon's GRA changes go through) after three months without any medical diagnosis of dysphoria and without having transitioned in any way and that such a teacher can access the loos and changing rooms your daughter uses.
That’s a good point. The trans issue does not especially interest me now (except as a satisfied spectator of lefty civil wars) - but I have two daughters. Hmm
One thing that does bug me is Starmer’s insistence (restated again today) that trans people are ‘the most marginalized of communities’ Is there anything to back this up? If there is, does it explain the modern Left’s obsession with trans rights - ie in their pursuit of intersectional privilege, or lack of, are trans people the intersect which meets maximum bigotry and hatred?
I have my doubts there are enough trans people to make the data reliable, but who knows
Trans people are protected under the Equality Act.
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described. and changing rooms your daughter uses.
I respect your position @Cyclefree but you have to also recognise that plenty of women do not feel their sex-based rights are under threat in the same way you do.
Refusing to collect data about it is both daft and potentially dangerous.
I refused to answer questions about my gender identity and sexuality on the diversity form to join my new employer.
They've still confirmed my appointment. So good so far, but I suspect I'll find a dissenting line hard to navigate at director level.
I wouldn't worry about it. The best thing to do is simply ignore the bullshit. That's what I do. I've also actively pushed back on something called "alignment groups" without any repercussions. The idea was that all the Asians or Jews or women could align themselves and ask for special treatment. It's something that's come over from our US office and I refused to implement them for my team by saying they'd be divisive. I argued my case to the directors and they agreed so junked them for London.
Thanks Max. I also heard on Friday from a colleague of mine that my old (well, current for the next 3 weeks) firm has just hired an EDI advisor, and we all know what that means.
Looks like I got out just in time. I hope in my new firm, in my new position, I can find the courage to do what you did and push back against the more divisive lunacies of this.
The worst part about this stuff is that no one specific is asking for it. I consulted with my team first before making my opposition known to the HR director and in the discussion not a single person who would be in favour of them based on their racial background was. In the end the discussion with the HR director was pretty good, though being Asian probably helped me while you won't have that in your back pocket.
British thinking is completely different to the US where everyone seems to think like a victim of something or other. Maybe it's because we've got pretty tough culture fit standards and people who think in that manner don't make it through the door.
Another way of looking at it might be that she's building a brand - "authentic gobby Angela" , but with somewhat moderated actual policy, and without some of Corbyn's toxic historical baggage on areas like the IRA ans Iran.
ie if that is the case she is not that authentic. As always language like she used reflects on the user of it not the recipient of it . Most voters I doubt appreciate it either so more damage to her and labour I suspect for its use.
If she thinks she can "build a brand" on a northern accent and course words then its a bit juvenile really and shallow
I note the free speech brigade are trying to shut Rayner down, whilst I think her comments will do absolutely nothing to get people voting Labour, I do want to draw attention to the obvious hypocrisy that is around. If BoJo had said such a thing people would be saying "ah Boris, what a lad he is". Why is Rayner different?
I was reminded by a Tweet earlier that at every recent Labour conference there's some level of infighting, "Labour is in chaos" etc even with the Deputy Leader doing or saying something similar, even when Labour won elections. Of course the difference was that the leaders's speech at the end changed it all, so this is really "now or never" for Keir Starmer.
The changes Starmer wishes to make seem to be set to now go through with UNISON's backing, which will prevent morons - including myself - from being able to vote a Corbyn character into the leadership ever again. Which can only be a good thing.
I am also encouraged that Starmer is now taking a pragmatic view on nationalisation. I think railways should be nationalised no question but energy companies? That just seems ideological to me - and Starmer getting away from that is a good move.
I think you've fallen on the opposite side of the 'what if opponents did this?' test. We don't have to think what people on here would do, we only need to know, with certainty, what the person in question would have said if their target had said the same about them.
I think we can all be confident we know what they'd have said.
I note the free speech brigade are trying to shut Rayner down, whilst I think her comments will do absolutely nothing to get people voting Labour, I do want to draw attention to the obvious hypocrisy that is around. If BoJo had said such a thing people would be saying "ah Boris, what a lad he is". Why is Rayner different?
I was reminded by a Tweet earlier that at every recent Labour conference there's some level of infighting, "Labour is in chaos" etc even with the Deputy Leader doing or saying something similar, even when Labour won elections. Of course the difference was that the leaders's speech at the end changed it all, so this is really "now or never" for Keir Starmer.
The changes Starmer wishes to make seem to be set to now go through with UNISON's backing, which will prevent morons - including myself - from being able to vote a Corbyn character into the leadership ever again. Which can only be a good thing.
I am also encouraged that Starmer is now taking a pragmatic view on nationalisation. I think railways should be nationalised no question but energy companies? That just seems ideological to me - and Starmer getting away from that is a good move.
I very much doubt if many free speech minded old fashioned liberals are trying to prevent Angela Rayner's freedom to speak. Some are drawing attention to the possible political fallout from what she has said. I think they are both correct and, if you are of the centre right, politically astute, to do so. John Stuart Mill doesn't come into it.
One of the merits of free speech is that it allows people to make and form judgements better.
Re Germany. Well, more musing really. And haven't googled. Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right? It can't be Boris, can it?
It was. If the SPD win tonight then Boris will be the only centre right leader of a G7 nation left apart from the PM of Japan.
Would show how well Boris has done given a post Covid social democratic tide in the western world rather like the tide to the centre left in the late 1990s
Anyone care to speculate why that might be? Thinking of the trend, rather than Johnson. We discussed him plenty. A recognition that society is actually more fragile than it normally appears? And that we depend quite heavily on public services, even if we don’t like paying for them? Or. Like 1945, no great yearning to return to the status quo ante? Or has Trump, and anti-vax, anti-lockdown conspiracies queered the pitch for the right? Or has a decade of generally right wing government since GFC let folk down? Or a bit of all of this?
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described.
You might become slightly less bored by the topic when a teacher turns up at the school your daughter goes to and it turns out that they are a man who has legally become a woman in Scotland (if Sturgeon's GRA changes go through) after three months without any medical diagnosis of dysphoria and without having transitioned in any way and that such a teacher can access the loos and changing rooms your daughter uses.
Eh? I actually agree with you on all of that. It's the relentless way the issue keeps being prosecuted by the identity obsessed Left that bores me.
I don't know why you keep trying to introduce a battle of the sexes dimension into this where it doesn't exist; we've got enough group polarisation as it is.
I agree with you. Sorry if I did not make myself clear. It should not be a battle of the sexes issue but it does appear to me that a lot of the trans activists attacks on women are coming from men, though not exclusively so. It is curious that the women-transitioning-to-men side is nowhere near as toxic. The Keira Bell case was more about what was being done to her and there was very little of the same women telling men what a man is or seeking to redefine manhood that goes on in relation to transwomen.
I think the best way to look at this is another expression of white male privilege over women. The main purveyors of self-ID transgenderism are white men. For their whole lives they've got their way and now they've suddenly found that everyone's fighting back against them having free access to women only spaces. That's why this is still getting any airtime. The idea saying women have cocks is ridiculous and yet here we are. The white men will always get their way, Cyclefree.
My appeal would be: can we please not fall into the trap of fighting Woke with more Woke?
If we want to get past this and into an enlightened world where we are treated fairly as individuals we need to stop playing this game by their rules.
Starmer says Rosie Duffield is wrong saying only women have a cervix
I am astonished he has not stood above this issue
I assume he was directly asked? Foolish to get involved, if not.
I would however agree that Duffield is wrong and very clearly so. Even leaving trans-women out of the picture, doesn't a hysterectomy sometimes (often?) involve removal of the cervix?
Edit: No, I've misread what she's reported to have said - not that all women have a cervix, but that only women have a cervix. That's more open to interpretations of what is a man and what is a woman. So, scrub out my comment on Duffield, without me knowing more of the facts.
Another way of looking at it might be that she's building a brand - "authentic gobby Angela" , but with somewhat moderated actual policy, and without some of Corbyn's toxic historical baggage on areas like the IRA ans Iran.
ie if that is the case she is not that authentic. As always language like she used reflects on the user of it not the recipient of it . Most voters I doubt appreciate it either so more damage to her and labour I suspect for its use.
If she thinks she can "build a brand" on a northern accent and course words then its a bit juvenile really and shallow
I'm not really sure, to be honest. It might be that she was just feeling drunk or indiscreet with a late-night Labour audience, rather than being calculating. It won't help her in the short-term, but particularly if she employs her more charming aspect later on to apologise for it, or put in some ironic distance from it with some sort of quip, as I suspect she might and is her style, she probably won't be too badly affected by it in the long-term.
Starmer says Rosie Duffield is wrong saying only women have a cervix
I am astonished he has not stood above this issue
I assume he was directly asked? Foolish to get involved, if not.
I would however agree that Duffield is wrong and very clearly so. Even leaving trans-women out of the picture, doesn't a hysterectomy sometimes (often?) involve removal of the cervix?
My wife had a hysterectomy but I doubt she would agree with Starmer
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described.
You might become slightly less bored by the topic when a teacher turns up at the school your daughter goes to and it turns out that they are a man who has legally become a woman in Scotland (if Sturgeon's GRA changes go through) after three months without any medical diagnosis of dysphoria and without having transitioned in any way and that such a teacher can access the loos and changing rooms your daughter uses.
Eh? I actually agree with you on all of that. It's the relentless way the issue keeps being prosecuted by the identity obsessed Left that bores me.
I don't know why you keep trying to introduce a battle of the sexes dimension into this where it doesn't exist; we've got enough group polarisation as it is.
I agree with you. Sorry if I did not make myself clear. It should not be a battle of the sexes issue but it does appear to me that a lot of the trans activists attacks on women are coming from men, though not exclusively so. It is curious that the women-transitioning-to-men side is nowhere near as toxic. The Keira Bell case was more about what was being done to her and there was very little of the same women telling men what a man is or seeking to redefine manhood that goes on in relation to transwomen.
I think the best way to look at this is another expression of white male privilege over women. The main purveyors of self-ID transgenderism are white men. For their whole lives they've got their way and now they've suddenly found that everyone's fighting back against them having free access to women only spaces. That's why this is still getting any airtime. The idea saying women have cocks is ridiculous and yet here we are. The white men will always get their way, Cyclefree.
My appeal would be: can we please not fall into the trap of fighting Woke with more Woke?
If we want to get past this and into an enlightened world where we are treated fairly as individuals we need to stop playing this game by their rules.
For sure, however, sometimes it's good to put it in terms they understand.
My, half serious, point was that this is men telling women to know their role and shut up about their hard won rights.
Absolutely no queues at my petrol station. All fuel available and only 2 of 6 pumps being used.
Don’t tell people that! The selfish twunks will set off from around the nation and converge...
Yes there really is no more selfish behaviour than wanting to make sure you have enough fuel to get your kids to school and yourself to work.
Fine if you need fuel. How many yesterday didn’t actually need to fill up?
While that's true, can you blame people for having more range anxiety than normal in the current circumstances? It's all very well being the "sensible one" until everyone else has fuel and you don't.
No I don’t blame them. I was even tempted myself, but I’ve got 3/4 tank and so about 270 miles in my car. Wife’s diesel is only half full and might be a bigger issue as she does a longer commute. I just despair at our collective stupidity.
Starmer says Rosie Duffield is wrong saying only women have a cervix
I am astonished he has not stood above this issue
I assume he was directly asked? Foolish to get involved, if not.
I would however agree that Duffield is wrong and very clearly so. Even leaving trans-women out of the picture, doesn't a hysterectomy sometimes (often?) involve removal of the cervix?
My wife had a hysterectomy but I doubt she would agree with Starmer
See my edit to my post - comprehension fail on my part when first replying.
Starmer says Rosie Duffield is wrong saying only women have a cervix
I am astonished he has not stood above this issue
I assume he was directly asked? Foolish to get involved, if not.
I would however agree that Duffield is wrong and very clearly so. Even leaving trans-women out of the picture, doesn't a hysterectomy sometimes (often?) involve removal of the cervix?
Edit: No, I've misread what she's reported to have said - not that all women have a cervix, but that only women have a cervix. That's more open to interpretations of what is a man and what is a woman. So, scrub out my comment on Duffield, without me knowing more of the facts.
I'm actually surprised that Starmer fell into the trap. He's now on the side of denying basic fucking biology.
Starmer says Rosie Duffield is wrong saying only women have a cervix
I am astonished he has not stood above this issue
I assume he was directly asked? Foolish to get involved, if not.
I would however agree that Duffield is wrong and very clearly so. Even leaving trans-women out of the picture, doesn't a hysterectomy sometimes (often?) involve removal of the cervix?
My wife had a hysterectomy but I doubt she would agree with Starmer
See my edit to my post - comprehension fail on my part when first replying.
Tie in Germany. But who will be Chancellor. I did say last night there was a tradition of late swingback. I was shown to be wrong at the last election, but it seems to have re-emerged. Will Linke get 5%? That could make all the difference.
Absolutely no queues at my petrol station. All fuel available and only 2 of 6 pumps being used.
Don’t tell people that! The selfish twunks will set off from around the nation and converge...
Yes there really is no more selfish behaviour than wanting to make sure you have enough fuel to get your kids to school and yourself to work.
Fine if you need fuel. How many yesterday didn’t actually need to fill up?
Why is it so hard to believe people queuing to buy fuel need fuel? My local station hasn’t had fuel since Wed and there’s no public transport and little in the way of walkable amenities for many.
Life’s a more pleasant experience when you stop instinctively leaning towards bitterness and condescension every time you look upon your fellow Man.
Oh come on! All of them? Why didn’t they need it last week then? We went from 5-6 BP stations out of fuel, and a fair number missing one type to the scenes now, not because they all needed to fill up, but because they didn’t want to be the ones missing out. I understand it, I really do. But if you had a 3/4 full tank, no intention of driving more than 200 miles this coming week, but filled up anyway, I think you’ve been selfish AND caused the small issue to become a crisis.
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described.
You might become slightly less bored by the topic when a teacher turns up at the school your daughter goes to and it turns out that they are a man who has legally become a woman in Scotland (if Sturgeon's GRA changes go through) after three months without any medical diagnosis of dysphoria and without having transitioned in any way and that such a teacher can access the loos and changing rooms your daughter uses.
That’s a good point. The trans issue does not especially interest me now (except as a satisfied spectator of lefty civil wars) - but I have two daughters. Hmm
One thing that does bug me is Starmer’s insistence (restated again today) that trans people are ‘the most marginalized of communities’ Is there anything to back this up? If there is, does it explain the modern Left’s obsession with trans rights - ie in their pursuit of intersectional privilege, or lack of, are trans people the intersect which meets maximum bigotry and hatred?
I have my doubts there are enough trans people to make the data reliable, but who knows
Trans people are protected under the Equality Act.
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described. and changing rooms your daughter uses.
I respect your position @Cyclefree but you have to also recognise that plenty of women do not feel their sex-based rights are under threat in the same way you do.
Refusing to collect data about it is both daft and potentially dangerous.
I refused to answer questions about my gender identity and sexuality on the diversity form to join my new employer.
They've still confirmed my appointment. So good so far, but I suspect I'll find a dissenting line hard to navigate at director level.
I wouldn't worry about it. The best thing to do is simply ignore the bullshit. That's what I do. I've also actively pushed back on something called "alignment groups" without any repercussions. The idea was that all the Asians or Jews or women could align themselves and ask for special treatment. It's something that's come over from our US office and I refused to implement them for my team by saying they'd be divisive. I argued my case to the directors and they agreed so junked them for London.
Thanks Max. I also heard on Friday from a colleague of mine that my old (well, current for the next 3 weeks) firm has just hired an EDI advisor, and we all know what that means.
Looks like I got out just in time. I hope in my new firm, in my new position, I can find the courage to do what you did and push back against the more divisive lunacies of this.
The worst part about this stuff is that no one specific is asking for it. I consulted with my team first before making my opposition known to the HR director and in the discussion not a single person who would be in favour of them based on their racial background was. In the end the discussion with the HR director was pretty good, though being Asian probably helped me while you won't have that in your back pocket.
British thinking is completely different to the US where everyone seems to think like a victim of something or other. Maybe it's because we've got pretty tough culture fit standards and people who think in that manner don't make it through the door.
That's true, I don't have that. I am a "white male". I can contrive various cards if I really wanted to - foreign wife, international school, first in family to go to university, cousins married to those of different races, probably slightly on the spectrum etc.
But, I don't want to play it because that will perpetuate this nonsense - both for me and for everyone else.
So, I will have to find another way. And it will be a harder way.
It looks like the CDU/CSU have the numbers to stay in office if they can cobble together a coalition with the Greens and the FDP but that must be unlikely given their policy differences.
It looks like the CDU/CSU have the numbers to stay in office if they can cobble together a coalition with the Greens and the FDP but that must be unlikely given their policy differences.
Yeah. But it's a bit on a knife edge isn't it? I mean this could come down to a few tens of thousands of votes for first place.
The CDU/CSU are saying they want a CDU/CSU + Greens + FDP coalition
Won't happen if the SPD are largest party, the Greens won't join that.
Another Union and SPD grand coalition now almost certain, with maybe the Greens or FDP too
Rubbish, it is very far from certain, it's third likeliest coalition on those numbers, and if it does happen it almost certainly won't involve a third party, why on earth would it?
Starmer says Rosie Duffield is wrong saying only women have a cervix
I am astonished he has not stood above this issue
I assume he was directly asked? Foolish to get involved, if not.
I would however agree that Duffield is wrong and very clearly so. Even leaving trans-women out of the picture, doesn't a hysterectomy sometimes (often?) involve removal of the cervix?
Edit: No, I've misread what she's reported to have said - not that all women have a cervix, but that only women have a cervix. That's more open to interpretations of what is a man and what is a woman. So, scrub out my comment on Duffield, without me knowing more of the facts.
I'm actually surprised that Starmer fell into the trap. He's now on the side of denying basic fucking biology.
It looks like the CDU/CSU have the numbers to stay in office if they can cobble together a coalition with the Greens and the FDP but that must be unlikely given their policy differences.
Yeah. But it's a bit on a knife edge isn't it? I mean this could come down to a few tens of thousands of votes for first place.
Is who comes first important, or does the biggest party in the current government get first shot at forming a coalition?
Starmer says Rosie Duffield is wrong saying only women have a cervix
I am astonished he has not stood above this issue
I assume he was directly asked? Foolish to get involved, if not.
I would however agree that Duffield is wrong and very clearly so. Even leaving trans-women out of the picture, doesn't a hysterectomy sometimes (often?) involve removal of the cervix?
Edit: No, I've misread what she's reported to have said - not that all women have a cervix, but that only women have a cervix. That's more open to interpretations of what is a man and what is a woman. So, scrub out my comment on Duffield, without me knowing more of the facts.
I'm actually surprised that Starmer fell into the trap. He's now on the side of denying basic fucking biology.
Starmer is a lawyer. The side he’s on right now is the side of affirming standing UK law: as currently enacted the legal reality is that trans women are women & trans men are men. (The act talks in terms of “gender reassignment” - to be more precise, if you want to treat a trans- person differently from someone born in that gender then under the Act, you need to have an extremely good reason drawn from a very short list. Otherwise, you have to treat them as equivalent for legal purposes.)
If you want to repeal the 2010 Equality Act, then feel free to get right on that but Starmer is not saying anything that’s controversial about the current situation in UK law.
The CDU/CSU are saying they want a CDU/CSU + Greens + FDP coalition
Won't happen if the SPD are largest party, the Greens won't join that.
Another Union and SPD grand coalition now almost certain, with maybe the Greens or FDP too
Rubbish, it is very far from certain, it's third likeliest coalition on those numbers, and if it does happen it almost certainly won't involve a third party, why on earth would it?
SPD, Greens and Linke do not have the numbers on either exit poll for a leftwing government, nor do Union and FDP for a centre right government. The pro business FDP and the Greens are not natural allies and would be wary of going into government with each other.
So that means it will have to involve bargaining with another grand coalition a strong possibility
It looks like the CDU/CSU have the numbers to stay in office if they can cobble together a coalition with the Greens and the FDP but that must be unlikely given their policy differences.
Yeah. But it's a bit on a knife edge isn't it? I mean this could come down to a few tens of thousands of votes for first place.
Is who comes first important, or does the biggest party in the current government get first shot at forming a coalition?
I dunno. Officially. But it would seem the largest Party would be morally entitled to first dibs. If it's a tie, goodness only knows.
The CDU/CSU are saying they want a CDU/CSU + Greens + FDP coalition
Won't happen if the SPD are largest party, the Greens won't join that.
Another Union and SPD grand coalition now almost certain, with maybe the Greens or FDP too
Rubbish, it is very far from certain, it's third likeliest coalition on those numbers, and if it does happen it almost certainly won't involve a third party, why on earth would it?
SPD, Greens and Linke do not have the numbers on either exit poll for a leftwing government, nor do Union and FDP for a centre right government. The pro business FDP and the Greens are not natural allies and would be wary of going into government with each other
So that means it will have to involve bargaining with another grand coalition a strong possibility
Doesn't @kamski live in Germany and is this you again telling someone who actually lives there that you know best
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described.
You might become slightly less bored by the topic when a teacher turns up at the school your daughter goes to and it turns out that they are a man who has legally become a woman in Scotland (if Sturgeon's GRA changes go through) after three months without any medical diagnosis of dysphoria and without having transitioned in any way and that such a teacher can access the loos and changing rooms your daughter uses.
That’s a good point. The trans issue does not especially interest me now (except as a satisfied spectator of lefty civil wars) - but I have two daughters. Hmm
One thing that does bug me is Starmer’s insistence (restated again today) that trans people are ‘the most marginalized of communities’ Is there anything to back this up? If there is, does it explain the modern Left’s obsession with trans rights - ie in their pursuit of intersectional privilege, or lack of, are trans people the intersect which meets maximum bigotry and hatred?
I have my doubts there are enough trans people to make the data reliable, but who knows
Trans people are protected under the Equality Act.
I can't be the only one who's thoroughly bored by "Trans".
Of course you are. But it is not your sex-based rights which are at risk. Nor how you describe yourself and are described. and changing rooms your daughter uses.
I respect your position @Cyclefree but you have to also recognise that plenty of women do not feel their sex-based rights are under threat in the same way you do.
Refusing to collect data about it is both daft and potentially dangerous.
I refused to answer questions about my gender identity and sexuality on the diversity form to join my new employer.
They've still confirmed my appointment. So good so far, but I suspect I'll find a dissenting line hard to navigate at director level.
I wouldn't worry about it. The best thing to do is simply ignore the bullshit. That's what I do. I've also actively pushed back on something called "alignment groups" without any repercussions. The idea was that all the Asians or Jews or women could align themselves and ask for special treatment. It's something that's come over from our US office and I refused to implement them for my team by saying they'd be divisive. I argued my case to the directors and they agreed so junked them for London.
Thanks Max. I also heard on Friday from a colleague of mine that my old (well, current for the next 3 weeks) firm has just hired an EDI advisor, and we all know what that means.
Looks like I got out just in time. I hope in my new firm, in my new position, I can find the courage to do what you did and push back against the more divisive lunacies of this.
The worst part about this stuff is that no one specific is asking for it. I consulted with my team first before making my opposition known to the HR director and in the discussion not a single person who would be in favour of them based on their racial background was. In the end the discussion with the HR director was pretty good, though being Asian probably helped me while you won't have that in your back pocket.
British thinking is completely different to the US where everyone seems to think like a victim of something or other. Maybe it's because we've got pretty tough culture fit standards and people who think in that manner don't make it through the door.
That's true, I don't have that. I am a "white male". I can contrive various cards if I really wanted to - foreign wife, international school, first in family to go to university, cousins married to those of different races, probably slightly on the spectrum etc.
But, I don't want to play it because that will perpetuate this nonsense - both for me and for everyone else.
So, I will have to find another way. And it will be a harder way.
Yes, I think having the white male HR director tell the Asian guy with pretty racially diverse team that this would be imposed on us would have gone badly. It's a very strange dynamic. As I said, in the end it was a good conversation and I think he took my criticisms on board really well. In all honesty I think he was looking for a way out, he never seemed like a big fan of this nonsense but at the same time the big US banks are implementing this kind of stuff in NY/London and Japan doesn't want to be left behind them.
One of the other big things I pushed back on was an "optional" lecture from some US racial expert. It was listed as optional in everyone's calendar but the white employees feared not attending it and some in my team asked if I could put in a meeting/event that clashed with it so they could say no without fear of repercussions. In the end I raised their objections with the HR manager and said that if any of them were singled out for not attending I'd back them all the way in any review and the event was deleted from everyone's calendar. It became an event that anyone who wanted to go had to ask for an invite rather than inviting the whole London office by default and pressuring people into attending.
I went to it for a few minutes and it was such a pile of wank. Completely irrelevant to anyone outside of the US and it was on Friday at 4pm-6pm. Literally one of the worst events the company has ever held, just a stream of critical race theory propaganda dressed up as fact.
The CDU/CSU are saying they want a CDU/CSU + Greens + FDP coalition
Won't happen if the SPD are largest party, the Greens won't join that.
Another Union and SPD grand coalition now almost certain, with maybe the Greens or FDP too
Rubbish, it is very far from certain, it's third likeliest coalition on those numbers, and if it does happen it almost certainly won't involve a third party, why on earth would it?
SPD, Greens and Linke do not have the numbers on either exit poll for a leftwing government, nor do Union and FDP for a centre right government. The pro business FDP and the Greens are not natural allies and would be wary of going into government with each other
So that means it will have to involve bargaining with another grand coalition a strong possibility
Doesn't @kamski live in Germany and is this you again telling someone who actually lives there that you know best
I could live on Mars and still read polls and exit polls and what they mean, kamski is also centre left and was pushing SPD, Green, Linke before the election which is now not possible on the exit polls
Re Germany. Well, more musing really. And haven't googled. Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right? It can't be Boris, can it?
It was. If the SPD win tonight then Boris will be the only centre right leader of a G7 nation left apart from the PM of Japan.
Would show how well Boris has done and is doing to still have a poll lead given a post Covid social democratic tide in the western world rather like the tide to the centre left in the late 1990s
Gibberish to call the US democrat president man of left. He is right of centre. Macron no more left than Boris.
Re Germany. Well, more musing really. And haven't googled. Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right? It can't be Boris, can it?
It was. If the SPD win tonight then Boris will be the only centre right leader of a G7 nation left apart from the PM of Japan.
Would show how well Boris has done and is doing to still have a poll lead given a post Covid social democratic tide in the western world rather like the tide to the centre left in the late 1990s
Gibberish to call the US democrat president man of left. He is right of centre.
In US terms Biden is centre left and the Democrats control congress too.
In US terms the CDU would be centrist even centre left but in German terms they are centre right and you measure it on which is the main centre left or centre right party in each nation
The CDU/CSU are saying they want a CDU/CSU + Greens + FDP coalition
Won't happen if the SPD are largest party, the Greens won't join that.
Another Union and SPD grand coalition now almost certain, with maybe the Greens or FDP too
Rubbish, it is very far from certain, it's third likeliest coalition on those numbers, and if it does happen it almost certainly won't involve a third party, why on earth would it?
SPD, Greens and Linke do not have the numbers on either exit poll for a leftwing government, nor do Union and FDP for a centre right government. The pro business FDP and the Greens are not natural allies and would be wary of going into government with each other
So that means it will have to involve bargaining with another grand coalition a strong possibility
Doesn't @kamski live in Germany and is this you again telling someone who actually lives there that you know best
I could live on Mars and still read polls and exit polls and what they mean, kamski is also centre left and was pushing SPD, Green, Linke before the election which is now not possible on the exit polls
Sky now actually showing with subtitles Rayner's address to the activists last night
I've never really understood why parties let journalists into all events at conferences. It's a space for the choir to preach to each other, obviously it isn't always going to look good to the outside world.
This may already have been mentioned but the Telegraph has a commentary piece written by John Sergeant and headlined:
"I lived through the winter of discontent – this is how Boris can avoid turning into Ted Heath"
Am I wrong in thinking either Sergeant or the headline writer has this wrong? I thought the Winter of Discontent was under Callaghan in 1978. Heath wasn't even Leader of the Opposition let alone PM by then.
This may already have been mentioned but the Telegraph has a commentary piece written by John Sergeant and headlined:
"I lived through the winter of discontent – this is how Boris can avoid turning into Ted Heath"
Am I wrong in thinking either Sergeant or the headline writer has this wrong? I thought the Winter of Discontent was under Callaghan in 1978. Heath wasn't even Leader of the Opposition let alone PM by then.
Of course you are right Richard, but perhaps it is jut a mixed metaphor?
Re Germany. Well, more musing really. And haven't googled. Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right? It can't be Boris, can it?
It was. If the SPD win tonight then Boris will be the only centre right leader of a G7 nation left apart from the PM of Japan.
Would show how well Boris has done and is doing to still have a poll lead given a post Covid social democratic tide in the western world rather like the tide to the centre left in the late 1990s
Gibberish to call the US democrat president man of left. He is right of centre. Macron no more left than Boris.
Tbf to @HYUFD. His comment was in response to my question of when the last major election victory went to the candidate of the right? And astonishment it was actually Boris. Biden may be centre-right. As I'd argue is Trudeau. But they weren't the candidates of the right.
Sky now actually showing with subtitles Rayner's address to the activists last night
I thought discussion of this was banned ?
I think it's specific to her marital status and age at which she had a child. The whole discussion around it is ridiculous anyway. Glad to have it put out of bounds.
It looks like the CDU/CSU have the numbers to stay in office if they can cobble together a coalition with the Greens and the FDP but that must be unlikely given their policy differences.
Yeah. But it's a bit on a knife edge isn't it? I mean this could come down to a few tens of thousands of votes for first place.
Hard to see how the Union can lead a coalition after losing a quarter or so of their support since the last GE.
Re Germany. Well, more musing really. And haven't googled. Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right? It can't be Boris, can it?
It was. If the SPD win tonight then Boris will be the only centre right leader of a G7 nation left apart from the PM of Japan.
Would show how well Boris has done and is doing to still have a poll lead given a post Covid social democratic tide in the western world rather like the tide to the centre left in the late 1990s
Gibberish to call the US democrat president man of left. He is right of centre. Macron no more left than Boris.
Tbf to @HYUFD. His comment was in response to my question of when the last major election victory went to the candidate of the right? And astonishment it was actually Boris. Biden may be centre-right. As I'd argue is Trudeau. But they weren't the candidates of the right?
Exactly, the GOP are the party of the centre right in the US, the Conservative Party of Canada is the centre right party in Canada, not Biden and not Trudeau (Trudeau is more centrist, effectively leading a centre left government now with the leftwing NDP).
The CDU would not be considered rightwing in the US and indeed most of the Anglosphere, indeed the FDP is the more Thatcherite party in Germany economically and the AfD the most rightwing party on social issues but the CDU/CSU is still the main centre right block in Germany
Re Germany. Well, more musing really. And haven't googled. Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right? It can't be Boris, can it?
It was. If the SPD win tonight then Boris will be the only centre right leader of a G7 nation left apart from the PM of Japan.
Would show how well Boris has done and is doing to still have a poll lead given a post Covid social democratic tide in the western world rather like the tide to the centre left in the late 1990s
Gibberish to call the US democrat president man of left. He is right of centre. Macron no more left than Boris.
Macron is a social liberal and a pro immigration globalist and pro EU unlike Boris who has delivered Brexit and ended free movement to the UK from the EU/EEA.
Biden is also a social liberal, pro immigration globalist even if not a socialist
This may already have been mentioned but the Telegraph has a commentary piece written by John Sergeant and headlined:
"I lived through the winter of discontent – this is how Boris can avoid turning into Ted Heath"
Am I wrong in thinking either Sergeant or the headline writer has this wrong? I thought the Winter of Discontent was under Callaghan in 1978. Heath wasn't even Leader of the Opposition let alone PM by then.
Of course you are right Richard, but perhaps it is jut a mixed metaphor?
Probably. January/February 1974 was clearly a discontented winter, but not The Winter of Discontent.
Though Taking Back Control from Boris would be an amusing echo of "Who Runs Britain? / Not You Ted".
Quoted on BBC news site - also the 25/25 poll gave Union a small seat lead, also if exit poll excludes postals and old people (ie Union voters) vote more by post, again favours Union
Comments
I note the free speech brigade are trying to shut Rayner down, whilst I think her comments will do absolutely nothing to get people voting Labour, I do want to draw attention to the obvious hypocrisy that is around. If BoJo had said such a thing people would be saying "ah Boris, what a lad he is". Why is Rayner different?
I was reminded by a Tweet earlier that at every recent Labour conference there's some level of infighting, "Labour is in chaos" etc even with the Deputy Leader doing or saying something similar, even when Labour won elections. Of course the difference was that the leaders's speech at the end changed it all, so this is really "now or never" for Keir Starmer.
The changes Starmer wishes to make seem to be set to now go through with UNISON's backing, which will prevent morons - including myself - from being able to vote a Corbyn character into the leadership ever again. Which can only be a good thing.
I am also encouraged that Starmer is now taking a pragmatic view on nationalisation. I think railways should be nationalised no question but energy companies? That just seems ideological to me - and Starmer getting away from that is a good move.
Nobody feels any pain
Tonight as I stand inside the rain
Everybody knows that baby's got new clothes
But lately I see her ribbons and her bows
Have fallen from her curls
She takes just like a cis woman
Yes, she does, she makes love just like a cis woman
Yes, she does, and she aches just like a cis woman
But she breaks just like a little cis girl
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/26/white-feminists-are-under-attack-from-other-women-here-can-only-be-one-winner--men
Starmer says Rosie Duffield is wrong saying only women have a cervix
I am astonished he has not stood above this issue
Off the top of my head, which was the last election of a major country won by the candidate of the right?
It can't be Boris, can it?
Perhaps if you don’t like the moniker, you could think about why it might be being applied?
Would show how well Boris has done and is doing to still have a poll lead given a post Covid social democratic tide in the western world rather like the tide to the centre left in the late 1990s
Looks like I got out just in time. I hope in my new firm, in my new position, I can find the courage to do what you did and push back against the more divisive lunacies of this.
They should commit to joining the single market and freedom of movement at GE24 without rejoining the EU
They are not going to win red wall seats but labour have the real problem that it would be a very negative issue in the red wall if they did the same
Thinking of the trend, rather than Johnson. We discussed him plenty.
A recognition that society is actually more fragile than it normally appears? And that we depend quite heavily on public services, even if we don’t like paying for them?
Or. Like 1945, no great yearning to return to the status quo ante? Or has Trump, and anti-vax, anti-lockdown conspiracies queered the pitch for the right? Or has a decade of generally right wing government since GFC let folk down?
Or a bit of all of this?
British thinking is completely different to the US where everyone seems to think like a victim of something or other. Maybe it's because we've got pretty tough culture fit standards and people who think in that manner don't make it through the door.
If she thinks she can "build a brand" on a northern accent and course words then its a bit juvenile really and shallow
I think we can all be confident we know what they'd have said.
One of the merits of free speech is that it allows people to make and form judgements better.
https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1442111297395515394
I found the Tweet I was referring to before.
Now, must be off.
If we want to get past this and into an enlightened world where we are treated fairly as individuals we need to stop playing this game by their rules.
I would however agree that Duffield is wrong and very clearly so. Even leaving trans-women out of the picture, doesn't a hysterectomy sometimes (often?) involve removal of the cervix?
Edit: No, I've misread what she's reported to have said - not that all women have a cervix, but that only women have a cervix. That's more open to interpretations of what is a man and what is a woman. So, scrub out my comment on Duffield, without me knowing more of the facts.
CDU/CSU: 25%
SPD: 25%
Greens: 15%
AfD: 11%
FDP: 11%
Linke: 5%
Maybe should have hung on to my (full) union position afterall...
My, half serious, point was that this is men telling women to know their role and shut up about their hard won rights.
How long will Spurs manager last
3 - 0 down to Arsenal in 34 minutes
Will Linke get 5%? That could make all the difference.
https://twitter.com/BR24/status/1442158029265321986?s=19
So another grand coalition between the Union and SPD looks likely, zero change despite all the hype. Only question which of Scholz or Laschet leads it
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1442157383334211589?s=20
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1442158082600144901?s=20
But, I don't want to play it because that will perpetuate this nonsense - both for me and for everyone else.
So, I will have to find another way. And it will be a harder way.
Another Union and SPD grand coalition now almost certain, with maybe the Greens or FDP too
Not sure their leader is strong enough to command it though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_chancellors_of_Germany
I mean this could come down to a few tens of thousands of votes for first place.
If you want to repeal the 2010 Equality Act, then feel free to get right on that but Starmer is not saying anything that’s controversial about the current situation in UK law.
https://www.dw.com/en/media-center/live-tv/s-100825
So that means it will have to involve bargaining with another grand coalition a strong possibility
If it's a tie, goodness only knows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Souq7Dzgz48
Another programme in German.
https://www.zdf.de/politik/wahlen/videos/bundestagswahl-berlin-mecklenburg-vorpommern-100.html
One of the other big things I pushed back on was an "optional" lecture from some US racial expert. It was listed as optional in everyone's calendar but the white employees feared not attending it and some in my team asked if I could put in a meeting/event that clashed with it so they could say no without fear of repercussions. In the end I raised their objections with the HR manager and said that if any of them were singled out for not attending I'd back them all the way in any review and the event was deleted from everyone's calendar. It became an event that anyone who wanted to go had to ask for an invite rather than inviting the whole London office by default and pressuring people into attending.
I went to it for a few minutes and it was such a pile of wank. Completely irrelevant to anyone outside of the US and it was on Friday at 4pm-6pm. Literally one of the worst events the company has ever held, just a stream of critical race theory propaganda dressed up as fact.
This is what US workers are up against.
In US terms the CDU would be centrist even centre left but in German terms they are centre right and you measure it on which is the main centre left or centre right party in each nation
This may already have been mentioned but the Telegraph has a commentary piece written by John Sergeant and headlined:
"I lived through the winter of discontent – this is how Boris can avoid turning into Ted Heath"
Am I wrong in thinking either Sergeant or the headline writer has this wrong? I thought the Winter of Discontent was under Callaghan in 1978. Heath wasn't even Leader of the Opposition let alone PM by then.
Biden may be centre-right. As I'd argue is Trudeau.
But they weren't the candidates of the right.
The CDU would not be considered rightwing in the US and indeed most of the Anglosphere, indeed the FDP is the more Thatcherite party in Germany economically and the AfD the most rightwing party on social issues but the CDU/CSU is still the main centre right block in Germany
Biden is also a social liberal, pro immigration globalist even if not a socialist
Though Taking Back Control from Boris would be an amusing echo of "Who Runs Britain? / Not You Ted".