New greener petrol will be introduced to service stations across Britain from today despite fears that hundreds of thousands of drivers still do not know whether their car can use it without being damaged.
More than 8,000 petrol stations will start selling E10 fuel, which is designed to cut greenhouse gas emissions from combustion engines, throughout September. The petrol is blended with 10 per cent bioethanol, which is made from materials such as grains, sugars and waste wood.
E5 petrol, which is sold throughout the UK at present, has 5 per cent bioethanol.
I filled up with E10 in France yesterday. So far, so good.
@IanB2 I'm cycling in France shortly, then returning and almost immediately going to Portugal again.
I think I know what I am doing but would appreciate checking with you.
I am going to be in the middle of nowhere so getting the Antigen test prior to return maybe a challenge. Did you find it easy? Can you just walk into any pharmacy? I probably wont see one until I cycle into St Malo just before my ferry.
Did you book a proper Day 2 test or go for one of the cheaper dubious ones. After all, all you need is the code for the Passenger Location Form.
Did France accept your NHS vaccine app (plus self notification, which seems trivial)?
A comment for every one else; the process is a shambles. You might remember from my previous trip to Portugal the booking of the return test had to be done before, then changed, which was fortunate as I couldn't do it without a return flight, now it seems we are back to before. Nobody checks you have taken the day 2 test; anyone could have done it for you. The paperwork is barely checked and then only by the courier (my passenger locator form was in a folder and not removed), the antigen certificate could have been anything with a few stamps on it. A survey of French pharmacies shows they have no idea what the UK technical requirements are (they are on the web site), but their certificates are all accepted.
I went on the Govt web site. The 4 cheapest Day 2 providers lie about their starting price and by a factor of 350%. The next has a rating of 1 out of 5. Don't expect a test from them or a result if you do get one, you are just getting the number you need for the Passenger Location Form. Five have been removed for not having any tests at all (just scams). Various who claim to be using certain tests or certain locations for tests haven't actually bought those tests or booked those locations (Which checked with the suppliers)
Antigen and PCR tests can vary in price for exactly the same thing from £20 to over £500!
Acceptance of the NHS app as being compatible with the EU certificate is completely up in the air (another wonderful benefit of Brexit). Some accept it, some don't, but some might (might is a fat lot of use at the terminal). The UK Govt is in negotiations with the EU. France seem to, Portugal might, but might is not good enough. That is going to cost us £100 for 2 Antigen tests (well actually for 2 certificates, the test is free if you do it yourself)
Bizarely you actually don't need any of these test. You need a number to put on your Passenger Locator form that nobody looks at and a piece of paper that anyone could produce and is only checked by the person at the boarding gate. he had no idea who the Doctor was who gave me my certificate in Portugal last time.
It is all a lot of bollocks, with a lot of people ripping people off from the out and out scammers to the high st chemists taking advantage of an opportunity.
And why have we made it so much more complex than the French and Portuguese.
Addressing three of your points:
"I am going to be in the middle of nowhere so getting the Antigen test prior to return maybe a challenge. Did you find it easy? Can you just walk into any pharmacy?" - Don't rely on a local pharmacy. Well in advance of your departure from the UK book a zoom service through Qured - you take the test with you and they watch you do it and you email a photo of the result and they email you back a certificate. Cost £40 ish.
"Did you book a proper Day 2 test or go for one of the cheaper dubious ones. After all, all you need is the code for the Passenger Location Form." Randox £43 - not dubious - it is a PCR. Book before you go away and keep record of booking reference as you will need this for the passenger locator form.
Did France accept your NHS vaccine app (plus self notification, which seems trivial)? My advice is to get a paper vaccination certificate from NHS - it is easy - see:
2) Randox was my plan, used them before and were good. Just wondered about the pointlessness of it all and just going for the £28 dubious one that everyone else seems to be using Cost difference 3 x (43 - 28). Probably not worth worrying about and at least I will be paying a proper organisation for an actual test.
3) My concern was whether they accepted it (in real life). It is all up in the air at the moment re EU countries. France seems to, Portugal not at the moment (so need antigen test before going), but might accept before I go. Was interested in a real life experience. Good idea re taking a paper copy.
Thank you.
Re Qured: I've used it four times so far. Excellent. But you have to be organised and it requires decent internet for the video call of course.
A week or so before you leave the UK, order the test at £39:
1) they post the test to you and you need to take it with you . It is just a small light box.
2) you book the video call, timed for within 72 hours of your return to UK. You book a ten minute slot. You need to remember this appointment, but Qured send you a message on your phone exactly one hour before the video call to remind you and also to provide you with a link. 10 minutes before the appointment time you click on the link and enter a "waiting room". The guy eventually appears and instructs you how to take the test and watches you. You then have to time 15 minutes for the result to be revealed in the little white test box and then you take a photo of it and email it to Qured and they email you back your certificate.
Isn't a pharmacy easier? In Portugal I had a selection of places to go to in walking distance so I am happy with there (going to same place). I paid 60 Euros last time (could have got it for 30 Euros, but would have had to get a lift from my host), but now the Govt have set up a place at 15 Euros. My worry in France is I won't see anything appropriate until the afternoon/evening before the morning I travel when I cycle into St Malo. But if any old pharmacy does provide it I should be ok. They appear to, but you never know what real life is like!
A pharmacy may indeed be easier. But you have to find one , hope it's open etc and for me that would be a bigger faff and something to worry about on my travels. But I am a bit of a worrier.
So am I!
There are lots in St Malo. Just worried about the potential for a shrug of the shoulders. The testing sites are at airports so I would have thought ports to, but can't find anything on that.
The whole planet is heading in this direction. I think we’re heading fast to three day weeks.
I personally work as few hours as I possibly can, typically about 30 hours a week, but sometimes fewer. I regard people who work more than 50 hours per week to be mentally retarded.
The habit of “presenteeism” is a tragedy. Folk hanging around doing fuck all. Twats. Either be productive or go home.
I think the opposite, a 3 day week poses other kinds of social problems. In the end, you must work constantly to make life meaningful; to distract yourself from contemplating the void of existence and the existential trauma it reveals. If you stop working, you quickly end up going mad.
The problem is work that people hate: work that creates deep moral conflict, work that has no meaning.
I think the problem is the word "work" - which implies bosses, grind, repetitiveness - and a better word would be "doing stuff", which can include restoring things, educating and training people, researching and writing things, and community projects.
It's productive and rewarding activity that matters.
Exactly. I too am of the opinion that the main point of all activity is to distract from existential angst but it can be any activity. It doesn't have to be paid work. In fact a lot of paid work is mundane and allows much space for existential angst. Whereas cf something like posting on PB - eg this post I'm doing right here and now - isn't paid work but it does, just for the time that I'm doing it, keep the black howling wolf from the door. So if you ever see a post of mine and think, "ffs, that's a very longwinded way of getting his point across," please cut me some slack. There's a reason for it. Oh god, I have to finish this one now, can't think of a way to continue, oh god oh god, emptiness beckons, the futility the futility ...
That's fair, and I guess I don't view it as futile.
It's best to view life as a rich experience, to derive as much from as you can, and focus on what you can do rather than what you can't.
I know some people who've been dealt terrible sets of cards - and experienced some awful personal tragedies - but, like so much else, it's about one's attitude subsequently since you can't change or control that.
That's always inspiring, people who overcome challenges. It doesn't have to be anything grand or extreme either. I remember once seeing this chap in Camden, very old and not in good shape, who nevertheless had got dressed and turned out smartly and was making his laboured way to the shops. Nothing that special about it, or him, but it rather hammered me.
"Green" issues will simply be absorbed into the political mainstream with the dividing line being technological capitalists versus luddite ecosocialism.
There's another dividing line in approximately the same place: wishful thinkers and denialists versus prepared to bite the bullet. The profit motive is powerful and necessary but it won't be fixing this on its own. It needs coordinated action from governments of all stripes.
I think denialist are down to 15-20% of the electorate. The debate is about what we do, how far we go and how quickly - even what parts of it we must 'accept' and adapt to.
Again, my antennae are very much up because I can smell groups that are trying to use this as a once in a generation opportunity to "reshape society" a mile away.
It is usually us oldies that rail against the mores of the upcoming generation, the angst heightened because we know that, however much we protest and however strong our arguments, simple demographics and the passage of time guarantees that we are destined to lose.
You seem to have come down with a very early case and are destined for a miserable old age surrounded by people with long hair and loud music...as the generation before me would have complained
I was out clubbing at the Ministry of Sound last Friday night until 4am. And I also don't live with my mum.
I suspect I'm a tad more 'hip' than your good self.
I hear Michael Gove is tipped to become the Minister for Sound in the post COP reshuffle
The whole planet is heading in this direction. I think we’re heading fast to three day weeks.
I personally work as few hours as I possibly can, typically about 30 hours a week, but sometimes fewer. I regard people who work more than 50 hours per week to be mentally retarded.
The habit of “presenteeism” is a tragedy. Folk hanging around doing fuck all. Twats. Either be productive or go home.
I think the opposite, a 3 day week poses other kinds of social problems. In the end, you must work constantly to make life meaningful; to distract yourself from contemplating the void of existence and the existential trauma it reveals. If you stop working, you quickly end up going mad.
The problem is work that people hate: work that creates deep moral conflict, work that has no meaning.
I think the problem is the word "work" - which implies bosses, grind, repetitiveness - and a better word would be "doing stuff", which can include restoring things, educating and training people, researching and writing things, and community projects.
It's productive and rewarding activity that matters.
Exactly. I too am of the opinion that the main point of all activity is to distract from existential angst but it can be any activity. It doesn't have to be paid work. In fact a lot of paid work is mundane and allows much space for existential angst. Whereas cf something like posting on PB - eg this post I'm doing right here and now - isn't paid work but it does, just for the time that I'm doing it, keep the black howling wolf from the door. So if you ever see a post of mine and think, "ffs, that's a very longwinded way of getting his point across," please cut me some slack. There's a reason for it. Oh god, I have to finish this one now, can't think of a way to continue, oh god oh god, emptiness beckons, the futility the futility ...
The whole planet is heading in this direction. I think we’re heading fast to three day weeks.
I personally work as few hours as I possibly can, typically about 30 hours a week, but sometimes fewer. I regard people who work more than 50 hours per week to be mentally retarded.
The habit of “presenteeism” is a tragedy. Folk hanging around doing fuck all. Twats. Either be productive or go home.
I think the opposite, a 3 day week poses other kinds of social problems. In the end, you must work constantly to make life meaningful; to distract yourself from contemplating the void of existence and the existential trauma it reveals. If you stop working, you quickly end up going mad.
The problem is work that people hate: work that creates deep moral conflict, work that has no meaning.
I think the problem is the word "work" - which implies bosses, grind, repetitiveness - and a better word would be "doing stuff", which can include restoring things, educating and training people, researching and writing things, and community projects.
It's productive and rewarding activity that matters.
Exactly. I too am of the opinion that the main point of all activity is to distract from existential angst but it can be any activity. It doesn't have to be paid work. In fact a lot of paid work is mundane and allows much space for existential angst. Whereas cf something like posting on PB - eg this post I'm doing right here and now - isn't paid work but it does, just for the time that I'm doing it, keep the black howling wolf from the door. So if you ever see a post of mine and think, "ffs, that's a very longwinded way of getting his point across," please cut me some slack. There's a reason for it. Oh god, I have to finish this one now, can't think of a way to continue, oh god oh god, emptiness beckons, the futility the futility ...
That's fair, and I guess I don't view it as futile.
It's best to view life as a rich experience, to derive as much from as you can, and focus on what you can do rather than what you can't.
I know some people who've been dealt terrible sets of cards - and experienced some awful personal tragedies - but, like so much else, it's about one's attitude subsequently since you can't change or control that.
That's always inspiring, people who overcome challenges. It doesn't have to be anything grand or extreme either. I remember once seeing this chap in Camden, very old and not in good shape, who nevertheless had got dressed and turned out smartly and was making his laboured way to the shops. Nothing that special about it, or him, but it rather hammered me.
Was it L**n?
Seriously though, yes, any sign of grace in the face of life's various vicissitudes is to be treasured, and can be quite unmanning the older I get.
Since we're on the subject does anyone know how easy/difficult it is to get a lateral flow test in Greece for the 72h pre-departure requirement when coming back to the UK?
I could have a massive rant about how it's completely fucking pointless but I'll leave that for another day, just want to get everything sorted.
Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico · 4h Almost all commentary on the mass vaccination of 12-15 yr olds fails to grant the context that the epidemic is de facto over. Would ministers be trying to apply political pressure to JCVI to mass vaxx 12-15s if they believed the epidemic finished?
As 94% of UK adults have antibodies, I suppose you could make an argument that the epidemic is de facto over, but everyone has a different threshold for declaring it as such.
I'm not convinced that possessing antibodies is always enough to stop infection.
Mr. Kinabalu, remember what Plato said: no human thing is of serious importance.
Yes, that's my deep and innate feeling. Had it all my life. Fought it all my life.
Embrace it, enjoy the ride. For one day the whole of human existence - endeavour, creation, genius, conflict, joy and pain and suffering will mean nothing. The species will be gone. Like a fart in a wind tunnel our species, our planet, our galaxy, exists for a fleeting moment in the infinity of the universe, only to be quickly blown away.
I find it strangely comforting. If I find myself starting to take life too seriously I try and think about it. Not bleak at all for me. We have been gifted consciousness to enjoy existing. The flipside is consciousness has made existing very complicated. But nevertheless, just enjoy the ride!
It's being so cheerful what keeps me going.
That was a beautiful post, until I got to fart in a wind tunnel.
Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico · 4h Almost all commentary on the mass vaccination of 12-15 yr olds fails to grant the context that the epidemic is de facto over. Would ministers be trying to apply political pressure to JCVI to mass vaxx 12-15s if they believed the epidemic finished?
As 94% of UK adults have antibodies, I suppose you could make an argument that the epidemic is de facto over, but everyone has a different threshold for declaring it as such.
I'm not convinced that possessing antibodies is always enough to stop infection.
I don't think its enough to stop infection. I do think its enough to declare the epidemic over.
This is now endemic instead of epidemic. People may get infected, some may get infected for a second or more time, but there's a reasonable chance thanks to antibodies etc to fight the infection off - as such we can live with the virus as we do any other endemic virus.
The whole planet is heading in this direction. I think we’re heading fast to three day weeks.
I personally work as few hours as I possibly can, typically about 30 hours a week, but sometimes fewer. I regard people who work more than 50 hours per week to be mentally retarded.
The habit of “presenteeism” is a tragedy. Folk hanging around doing fuck all. Twats. Either be productive or go home.
I think the opposite, a 3 day week poses other kinds of social problems. In the end, you must work constantly to make life meaningful; to distract yourself from contemplating the void of existence and the existential trauma it reveals. If you stop working, you quickly end up going mad.
The problem is work that people hate: work that creates deep moral conflict, work that has no meaning.
I think the problem is the word "work" - which implies bosses, grind, repetitiveness - and a better word would be "doing stuff", which can include restoring things, educating and training people, researching and writing things, and community projects.
It's productive and rewarding activity that matters.
Exactly. I too am of the opinion that the main point of all activity is to distract from existential angst but it can be any activity. It doesn't have to be paid work. In fact a lot of paid work is mundane and allows much space for existential angst. Whereas cf something like posting on PB - eg this post I'm doing right here and now - isn't paid work but it does, just for the time that I'm doing it, keep the black howling wolf from the door. So if you ever see a post of mine and think, "ffs, that's a very longwinded way of getting his point across," please cut me some slack. There's a reason for it. Oh god, I have to finish this one now, can't think of a way to continue, oh god oh god, emptiness beckons, the futility the futility ...
That's fair, and I guess I don't view it as futile.
It's best to view life as a rich experience, to derive as much from as you can, and focus on what you can do rather than what you can't.
I know some people who've been dealt terrible sets of cards - and experienced some awful personal tragedies - but, like so much else, it's about one's attitude subsequently since you can't change or control that.
That's always inspiring, people who overcome challenges. It doesn't have to be anything grand or extreme either. I remember once seeing this chap in Camden, very old and not in good shape, who nevertheless had got dressed and turned out smartly and was making his laboured way to the shops. Nothing that special about it, or him, but it rather hammered me.
Was it L**n?
Seriously though, yes, any sign of grace in the face of life's various vicissitudes is to be treasured, and can be quite unmanning the older I get.
- well he was chuntering away to himself about something or other so ...
Yes, work for more years but for fewer hours PER year. This is what I expect the trend to be.
How do you increase productivity by 20% so that your standard of living does not nose dive. How many companies, self employed etc will be able to afford it
I strongly suspect Boris Johnson's popularity rating will sink through the floor by next spring when covid has surged this winter and his northern fan club finally twig about what a prat the man is.
Next PM (shortest from each party) Sunak Con 3/1 Starmer Lab 5/1 Farage 66/1 Carmichael LD 75/1
Next FM (shortest from each party) Robertson SNP 7/2 Sarwar SLab 12/1 Ross SCon 18/1 Rennie SLD 100/1
Can I lay Rennie? Given that he is no longer the leader of the SLDs that looks a really safe bet.
There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.
If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.
I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.
So what? Live and let live.
Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.
We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
Mr. Kinabalu, remember what Plato said: no human thing is of serious importance.
Yes, that's my deep and innate feeling. Had it all my life. Fought it all my life.
Embrace it, enjoy the ride. For one day the whole of human existence - endeavour, creation, genius, conflict, joy and pain and suffering will mean nothing. The species will be gone. Like a fart in a wind tunnel our species, our planet, our galaxy, exists for a fleeting moment in the infinity of the universe, only to be quickly blown away.
I find it strangely comforting. If I find myself starting to take life too seriously I try and think about it. Not bleak at all for me. We have been gifted consciousness to enjoy existing. The flipside is consciousness has made existing very complicated. But nevertheless, just enjoy the ride!
It's being so cheerful what keeps me going.
That was a beautiful post, until I got to fart in a wind tunnel.
The zero-case obsession, a binary position that says we either have no COVID cases or catastrophic outbreaks on a scale witnessed in Italy and New York at the start of the pandemic, has been consigned to the epidemiological dustbin.
The virus is here to stay. It will continue to spread in Victoria, more people will get critically sick and some will die.
Instead of pretending this can be avoided with curfews, five-kilometre rules and stopping children from playing on swings and monkey bars, Victoria has joined NSW in accepting we cannot protect life by keeping it on hold forever.
But it might be true. There's lots of things which oscillate between extremes instead of settling down at a nice equilibrium. If the facts are binary, a binary position is the right one. If there is a 500 ton meteor which might or might not hit earth, then there is. There is no point in arguing the political merits of it being bound to hit us, but only weighing half a ton.
In the case of Zerocovid, it's demonstrably untrue.
You can point to a country jogging happily along with a significant but absolutely stable covid burden?
Who the fuck think it's a good idea conducting the end of your marriage through the medium of a tabloid column? I'm almost beginning to feel some sympathy for the Gover.
Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico · 4h Almost all commentary on the mass vaccination of 12-15 yr olds fails to grant the context that the epidemic is de facto over. Would ministers be trying to apply political pressure to JCVI to mass vaxx 12-15s if they believed the epidemic finished?
As 94% of UK adults have antibodies, I suppose you could make an argument that the epidemic is de facto over, but everyone has a different threshold for declaring it as such.
I'm not convinced that possessing antibodies is always enough to stop infection.
I don't think its enough to stop infection. I do think its enough to declare the epidemic over.
This is now endemic instead of epidemic. People may get infected, some may get infected for a second or more time, but there's a reasonable chance thanks to antibodies etc to fight the infection off - as such we can live with the virus as we do any other endemic virus.
Which is fine as long as you don't mind being heavily restricted in where you are allowed to travel by a rest of the world less dismissive about this epidemic.
Mr. Kinabalu, remember what Plato said: no human thing is of serious importance.
Yes, that's my deep and innate feeling. Had it all my life. Fought it all my life.
Embrace it, enjoy the ride. For one day the whole of human existence - endeavour, creation, genius, conflict, joy and pain and suffering will mean nothing. The species will be gone. Like a fart in a wind tunnel our species, our planet, our galaxy, exists for a fleeting moment in the infinity of the universe, only to be quickly blown away.
I find it strangely comforting. If I find myself starting to take life too seriously I try and think about it. Not bleak at all for me. We have been gifted consciousness to enjoy existing. The flipside is consciousness has made existing very complicated. But nevertheless, just enjoy the ride!
It's being so cheerful what keeps me going.
That was a beautiful post, until I got to fart in a wind tunnel.
Cheer up, not everyone gets to fart in a wind tunnel.
I usually only read it on a morning as that is my internet/admin/car parts buying time but it means I miss all of the really choice drunken agro that goes on at night.
Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico · 4h Almost all commentary on the mass vaccination of 12-15 yr olds fails to grant the context that the epidemic is de facto over. Would ministers be trying to apply political pressure to JCVI to mass vaxx 12-15s if they believed the epidemic finished?
As 94% of UK adults have antibodies, I suppose you could make an argument that the epidemic is de facto over, but everyone has a different threshold for declaring it as such.
I'm not convinced that possessing antibodies is always enough to stop infection.
I don't think its enough to stop infection. I do think its enough to declare the epidemic over.
This is now endemic instead of epidemic. People may get infected, some may get infected for a second or more time, but there's a reasonable chance thanks to antibodies etc to fight the infection off - as such we can live with the virus as we do any other endemic virus.
One of the more curious things about the world's response to Covid is that there are lots of assumptions being made about re-infection rates, and the seriousness (or otherwise) of re-infection, but as far as I can tell, very little is data.
The fact that we get are getting breakthrough infections of the vaccines suggests that there is going to be a reasonable rate of re-infection, but probably with less serious consequences than the first time round.
Unless much better vaccines appear, one would expect it to remain endemic like the other Cronaviruses, but so long as you've had it a few times as a kid, or after vaccination it will probably only result in a dose of the sniffles.
Is one possible argument against vaxing kids that immunity from infection is stronger than that from the vaccines? Given it doesn't do many of them any harm to have the disease, are we better letting them acquire the best possible immunity for later life now, whilst it won't do them any harm, rather than ending up in a place later where they have fading vaccine induced immunity, but stand significant risk of actually getting ill if they catch the disease?
Scott, I am so efficient I need to do other things or I show everybody up. Since I will likely chuck it soon they should make all public services/government sinecures work 6 days for current wages and reduce the senior management salaries by 50% minimum. And whilst at it get shot of all the hangers on quangos being paid over the top for woke rubbish.
Sainsbury's sitrep midday yesterday. For the first time, there are many (though still a minority, say 20 per cent of) customers not wearing masks. Some shelves are still bare.
It's utter madness at the moment not to be wearing a mask in a confined indoor space. I had a go at M&S staff two days ago. All the customers were in masks and none of the staff. My other local shop had to shut because, surprise surprise, the anti-mask staff got struck down by covid.
We only need to look at Israel to see this ain't yet over. Where's Johnson on this? Nowhere. So a month or two from now we will start playing catch up.
If you have been double vaccinated it should be personal choice if you want to wear a mask in shops.
Yes you might be slightly more likely to catch Covid but you are very unlikely to be hospitalised anyway.
If you have not been double vaccinated then getting jabbed would protect you from Covid far more than just wearing a mask would and almost everyone has been offered both jabs now
With respect HYUFD, the point of conforming to mask-wearing is to signal to other people that you are not threatening them with the virus.
With respect, its gesture bollocks and I won't take part in it anymore (unless I'm on someone's property and they tell, not ask, me to).
I've been double jabbed and that's it as far as I'm concerned. We need to get back on with our lives and wearing flimsy cloth masks post-vaccines is meaningless.
If you're concerned, go out and get a proper mask that actually works rather than replying upon strangers wearing cloth masks that don't.
Cloth masks made sense when there was a limitation on supply of proper masks, and when vaccines weren't available. That time has passed.
There are plenty of people out there who would be scared by your blithe insouciance as you swagger maskless around Waitrose potentially shedding virus even though you've been double-vaxxed. Anti-social behaviour imho.
I'm sorry but I have no intention to pander to irrational phobias. Are those people wearing FFP3 masks?
If not, and I never see them at Tesco's, then I couldn't give a fuck what they're irrationally afraid of. Get a proper mask and move on, FFP3 masks work and third-party cloth masks don't.
Philibet the Libertarian Tells Other People What To Do, Part 999874.
Nope. I'm saying other people can do whatever they please. Wear a cloth mask, don't wear any mask, wear an FFP3 mask, put a sock on their head and put pencils up their nose . . . whatever they choose its their choice.
If they're afraid post-vaccines then the sensible thing to do is to wear an FFP3 mask. Or stay at home. Or get over their irrational phobias.
My wife really doesn't want to get Covid because of health issues. I might suggest you broaden your little mind and try to understand why people's fear might not be 'irrational phobias'.
A month ago I said I'd continue wearing masks where I felt it was appropriate. In response, someone said: "just as long as you don't condemn those who decide differently." Well, I've tried not to. But now it appears fine to criticise people continuing to wear them.
Just to remind you: Covid hasn't gone away. For some people Covid is a real threat - and they're not all old. But in your mind that's just 'irrational phobias'.
(As an aside, I feel we'll all get Covid eventually. I see no harm - and a fair bit of good - in delaying getting it.)
I have no qualms with your or your wife or anyone else wearing a mask. What I have a qualm with is being told I must because others are "afraid" if I don't.
If you or your wife or anyone else is "afraid" of me not wearing a mask then yes that is an irrational phobia. Especially if the person in question is not wearing an FFP3 mask.
I avoid public places indoors where mask refusers accumulate, it is a fairly good and visible flag for other reckless behaviour.
Not forever, but for the next couple of months while the prevalence is so high.
And when you're wearing a mask are you wearing an FFP3 mask that works properly? Or a cloth mask that has negligible post-vaccination real world impact?
At the football I wear an FFP3, on places like the Red Funnel, I wear a FFP2, when not outside.
Good for you.
Meanwhile at Tesco's almost all I ever see is cloth masks, amongst the minority still wearing masks. Me switching to the minority wearing masks won't change anyone's risk in reality - but people who aren't vaccinated getting vaccinated, or those who aren't wearing FFP2/3 masks putting them on certainly would.
"Stylish" cloth masks seem to have become a fashion thing for some. Combination of look at my cool mask plus virtue signalling they are still doing the mask thing. Rather than use a mask that works, which are easy to come by.
100% agreed with this, its a fashion now.
I don't have any tattoos, I don't wear jewellery, and I don't wear masks unnecessarily. I'm just not into any of that crap but fair play to those who are if that's their fashion.
I wear a mask in Waitrose out of respect for the staff. I'm in there for five minutes and don't interact with anyone, but they're in for eight hours and have to interact with anyone who choses. The difference between paper masks and proper masks is irrelevant: the key point is that the workers have 50 times greater exposure than I do and if they get sick I don't eat. In the end it all boils down to selfishness.
There's nothing selfish about it whatsoever.
Most of the staff at my local Tesco's aren't masked up, just like most of the customers. Indeed the overwhelming majority aren't.
My wearing a mask or not wearing a mask won't make any real difference to the staff at all, because of both their own and other customers lack of masks and the fact that paper/cloth masks do not work like real masks that are available or vaccines do.
If the staff are bothered and want to wear an FFP3 mask they're free to do so. I haven't seen a single one do so, so why the hell would I wear a useless crappy cloth masks that is just uncomfortable and not effective?
The staff at my local Waitrose are 100% masked for eight hours a day, and if they feel the need I will respect their feelings by doing likewise for 5 minutes.
Tell me your secret:
How TF do you manage to get around Waitrose in five minutes?
Sainsbury's sitrep midday yesterday. For the first time, there are many (though still a minority, say 20 per cent of) customers not wearing masks. Some shelves are still bare.
It's utter madness at the moment not to be wearing a mask in a confined indoor space. I had a go at M&S staff two days ago. All the customers were in masks and none of the staff. My other local shop had to shut because, surprise surprise, the anti-mask staff got struck down by covid.
We only need to look at Israel to see this ain't yet over. Where's Johnson on this? Nowhere. So a month or two from now we will start playing catch up.
If you have been double vaccinated it should be personal choice if you want to wear a mask in shops.
Yes you might be slightly more likely to catch Covid but you are very unlikely to be hospitalised anyway.
If you have not been double vaccinated then getting jabbed would protect you from Covid far more than just wearing a mask would and almost everyone has been offered both jabs now
With respect HYUFD, the point of conforming to mask-wearing is to signal to other people that you are not threatening them with the virus.
With respect, its gesture bollocks and I won't take part in it anymore (unless I'm on someone's property and they tell, not ask, me to).
I've been double jabbed and that's it as far as I'm concerned. We need to get back on with our lives and wearing flimsy cloth masks post-vaccines is meaningless.
If you're concerned, go out and get a proper mask that actually works rather than replying upon strangers wearing cloth masks that don't.
Cloth masks made sense when there was a limitation on supply of proper masks, and when vaccines weren't available. That time has passed.
There are plenty of people out there who would be scared by your blithe insouciance as you swagger maskless around Waitrose potentially shedding virus even though you've been double-vaxxed. Anti-social behaviour imho.
I'm sorry but I have no intention to pander to irrational phobias. Are those people wearing FFP3 masks?
If not, and I never see them at Tesco's, then I couldn't give a fuck what they're irrationally afraid of. Get a proper mask and move on, FFP3 masks work and third-party cloth masks don't.
Philibet the Libertarian Tells Other People What To Do, Part 999874.
Nope. I'm saying other people can do whatever they please. Wear a cloth mask, don't wear any mask, wear an FFP3 mask, put a sock on their head and put pencils up their nose . . . whatever they choose its their choice.
If they're afraid post-vaccines then the sensible thing to do is to wear an FFP3 mask. Or stay at home. Or get over their irrational phobias.
My wife really doesn't want to get Covid because of health issues. I might suggest you broaden your little mind and try to understand why people's fear might not be 'irrational phobias'.
A month ago I said I'd continue wearing masks where I felt it was appropriate. In response, someone said: "just as long as you don't condemn those who decide differently." Well, I've tried not to. But now it appears fine to criticise people continuing to wear them.
Just to remind you: Covid hasn't gone away. For some people Covid is a real threat - and they're not all old. But in your mind that's just 'irrational phobias'.
(As an aside, I feel we'll all get Covid eventually. I see no harm - and a fair bit of good - in delaying getting it.)
I have no qualms with your or your wife or anyone else wearing a mask. What I have a qualm with is being told I must because others are "afraid" if I don't.
If you or your wife or anyone else is "afraid" of me not wearing a mask then yes that is an irrational phobia. Especially if the person in question is not wearing an FFP3 mask.
I avoid public places indoors where mask refusers accumulate, it is a fairly good and visible flag for other reckless behaviour.
Not forever, but for the next couple of months while the prevalence is so high.
And when you're wearing a mask are you wearing an FFP3 mask that works properly? Or a cloth mask that has negligible post-vaccination real world impact?
At the football I wear an FFP3, on places like the Red Funnel, I wear a FFP2, when not outside.
Good for you.
Meanwhile at Tesco's almost all I ever see is cloth masks, amongst the minority still wearing masks. Me switching to the minority wearing masks won't change anyone's risk in reality - but people who aren't vaccinated getting vaccinated, or those who aren't wearing FFP2/3 masks putting them on certainly would.
"Stylish" cloth masks seem to have become a fashion thing for some. Combination of look at my cool mask plus virtue signalling they are still doing the mask thing. Rather than use a mask that works, which are easy to come by.
100% agreed with this, its a fashion now.
I don't have any tattoos, I don't wear jewellery, and I don't wear masks unnecessarily. I'm just not into any of that crap but fair play to those who are if that's their fashion.
I wear a mask in Waitrose out of respect for the staff. I'm in there for five minutes and don't interact with anyone, but they're in for eight hours and have to interact with anyone who choses. The difference between paper masks and proper masks is irrelevant: the key point is that the workers have 50 times greater exposure than I do and if they get sick I don't eat. In the end it all boils down to selfishness.
There's nothing selfish about it whatsoever.
Most of the staff at my local Tesco's aren't masked up, just like most of the customers. Indeed the overwhelming majority aren't.
My wearing a mask or not wearing a mask won't make any real difference to the staff at all, because of both their own and other customers lack of masks and the fact that paper/cloth masks do not work like real masks that are available or vaccines do.
If the staff are bothered and want to wear an FFP3 mask they're free to do so. I haven't seen a single one do so, so why the hell would I wear a useless crappy cloth masks that is just uncomfortable and not effective?
The staff at my local Waitrose are 100% masked for eight hours a day, and if they feel the need I will respect their feelings by doing likewise for 5 minutes.
Tell me your secret:
How TF do you manage to get around Waitrose in five minutes?
Yes, work for more years but for fewer hours PER year. This is what I expect the trend to be.
How do you increase productivity by 20% so that your standard of living does not nose dive. How many companies, self employed etc will be able to afford it
There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.
If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.
I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.
So what? Live and let live.
Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.
We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
You can get a FFP3 mask for £30!
My sense is that this 'big spike; of covid is in fact a fall in positive tests in England?
And give over with the childish language – pox, wazzocks, you sound like a primary school kid.
And why is meeting your friends and socialising without a mask wayward behaviour? It's – erm – normal behaviour.
The zero-case obsession, a binary position that says we either have no COVID cases or catastrophic outbreaks on a scale witnessed in Italy and New York at the start of the pandemic, has been consigned to the epidemiological dustbin.
The virus is here to stay. It will continue to spread in Victoria, more people will get critically sick and some will die.
Instead of pretending this can be avoided with curfews, five-kilometre rules and stopping children from playing on swings and monkey bars, Victoria has joined NSW in accepting we cannot protect life by keeping it on hold forever.
But it might be true. There's lots of things which oscillate between extremes instead of settling down at a nice equilibrium. If the facts are binary, a binary position is the right one. If there is a 500 ton meteor which might or might not hit earth, then there is. There is no point in arguing the political merits of it being bound to hit us, but only weighing half a ton.
In the case of Zerocovid, it's demonstrably untrue.
You can point to a country jogging happily along with a significant but absolutely stable covid burden?
Which one?
You don't need to be 'absolutely stable' to be non-extreme.
England has a near-equilibrium state at the moment...
"Green" issues will simply be absorbed into the political mainstream with the dividing line being technological capitalists versus luddite ecosocialism.
There's another dividing line in approximately the same place: wishful thinkers and denialists versus prepared to bite the bullet. The profit motive is powerful and necessary but it won't be fixing this on its own. It needs coordinated action from governments of all stripes.
I think denialist are down to 15-20% of the electorate. The debate is about what we do, how far we go and how quickly - even what parts of it we must 'accept' and adapt to.
Again, my antennae are very much up because I can smell groups that are trying to use this as a once in a generation opportunity to "reshape society" a mile away.
It is usually us oldies that rail against the mores of the upcoming generation, the angst heightened because we know that, however much we protest and however strong our arguments, simple demographics and the passage of time guarantees that we are destined to lose.
You seem to have come down with a very early case and are destined for a miserable old age surrounded by people with long hair and loud music...as the generation before me would have complained
I was out clubbing at the Ministry of Sound last Friday night until 4am. And I also don't live with my mum.
I suspect I'm a tad more 'hip' than your good self.
I am quite sure that you are. But it was an analogy remembering the complaints old people used to make when I was your age.
Resistance [to generational social change] is futile. And will simply condemn you to an unhappy old age
Personally? I am able to respond to and process societal change; the challenge is to identify the positive trends that need embracing (treating those of all backgrounds fairly), those that aren't quite right and need shaping (the response to climate change, or gender identity issues) and those that aren't right and need resisting (suffocating free speech, a rise of polarisation/authoritarianism and attacking the foundations on which our society is built).
One might not get the balance of that right from time but it's also not right simply to "go along" with all change in the belief that the youngest generations are always the best informed.
Yes, work for more years but for fewer hours PER year. This is what I expect the trend to be.
How do you increase productivity by 20% so that your standard of living does not nose dive. How many companies, self employed etc will be able to afford it
I usually only read it on a morning as that is my internet/admin/car parts buying time but it means I miss all of the really choice drunken agro that goes on at night.
That is actually better read the morning after, I find. If you're in the middle of it you can get blood up and saying quite fruity things. There's no PB equivalent of the intervening girlfriend "C'mon, Kuntibula, leave it, he's just not worth it."
"Green" issues will simply be absorbed into the political mainstream with the dividing line being technological capitalists versus luddite ecosocialism.
There's another dividing line in approximately the same place: wishful thinkers and denialists versus prepared to bite the bullet. The profit motive is powerful and necessary but it won't be fixing this on its own. It needs coordinated action from governments of all stripes.
I think denialist are down to 15-20% of the electorate. The debate is about what we do, how far we go and how quickly - even what parts of it we must 'accept' and adapt to.
Again, my antennae are very much up because I can smell groups that are trying to use this as a once in a generation opportunity to "reshape society" a mile away.
It is usually us oldies that rail against the mores of the upcoming generation, the angst heightened because we know that, however much we protest and however strong our arguments, simple demographics and the passage of time guarantees that we are destined to lose.
You seem to have come down with a very early case and are destined for a miserable old age surrounded by people with long hair and loud music...as the generation before me would have complained
I was out clubbing at the Ministry of Sound last Friday night until 4am. And I also don't live with my mum.
I suspect I'm a tad more 'hip' than your good self.
I hear Michael Gove is tipped to become the Minister for Sound in the post COP reshuffle
The zero-case obsession, a binary position that says we either have no COVID cases or catastrophic outbreaks on a scale witnessed in Italy and New York at the start of the pandemic, has been consigned to the epidemiological dustbin.
The virus is here to stay. It will continue to spread in Victoria, more people will get critically sick and some will die.
Instead of pretending this can be avoided with curfews, five-kilometre rules and stopping children from playing on swings and monkey bars, Victoria has joined NSW in accepting we cannot protect life by keeping it on hold forever.
But it might be true. There's lots of things which oscillate between extremes instead of settling down at a nice equilibrium. If the facts are binary, a binary position is the right one. If there is a 500 ton meteor which might or might not hit earth, then there is. There is no point in arguing the political merits of it being bound to hit us, but only weighing half a ton.
In the case of Zerocovid, it's demonstrably untrue.
You can point to a country jogging happily along with a significant but absolutely stable covid burden?
Yes, work for more years but for fewer hours PER year. This is what I expect the trend to be.
How do you increase productivity by 20% so that your standard of living does not nose dive. How many companies, self employed etc will be able to afford it
Comments
There are lots in St Malo. Just worried about the potential for a shrug of the shoulders. The testing sites are at airports so I would have thought ports to, but can't find anything on that.
Seriously though, yes, any sign of grace in the face of life's various vicissitudes is to be treasured, and can be quite unmanning the older I get.
I could have a massive rant about how it's completely fucking pointless but I'll leave that for another day, just want to get everything sorted.
This is now endemic instead of epidemic. People may get infected, some may get infected for a second or more time, but there's a reasonable chance thanks to antibodies etc to fight the infection off - as such we can live with the virus as we do any other endemic virus.
We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
Which one?
The fact that we get are getting breakthrough infections of the vaccines suggests that there is going to be a reasonable rate of re-infection, but probably with less serious consequences than the first time round.
Unless much better vaccines appear, one would expect it to remain endemic like the other Cronaviruses, but so long as you've had it a few times as a kid, or after vaccination it will probably only result in a dose of the sniffles.
Is one possible argument against vaxing kids that immunity from infection is stronger than that from the vaccines? Given it doesn't do many of them any harm to have the disease, are we better letting them acquire the best possible immunity for later life now, whilst it won't do them any harm, rather than ending up in a place later where they have fading vaccine induced immunity, but stand significant risk of actually getting ill if they catch the disease?
How TF do you manage to get around Waitrose in five minutes?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs
So in the grand scheme of things - if it's in the right areas (which is a lot of areas) - less hours worked will not equate to less useful work done.
My sense is that this 'big spike; of covid is in fact a fall in positive tests in England?
And give over with the childish language – pox, wazzocks, you sound like a primary school kid.
And why is meeting your friends and socialising without a mask wayward behaviour? It's – erm – normal behaviour.
Even uniforms - for some reason U Boat crews got a pile of them.
England has a near-equilibrium state at the moment...
One might not get the balance of that right from time but it's also not right simply to "go along" with all change in the belief that the youngest generations are always the best informed.
NEW THREAD
See this motivational video by the CEO, speaking to his management pyramid....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlwVTRTCdnk
Why does rabbit-sentimentalism have such a hold in Taiwan?