Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Has Biden’s Afghan move put the mockers on the 2024 nomination? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited August 2021 in General
imageHas Biden’s Afghan move put the mockers on the 2024 nomination? – politicalbetting.com

Even though 78 year old Biden has only been in office since January the speculation is starting to build around 2024. Is Biden, as some reports suggest, going to seek re-election in three years’ time when he will be in his early 80s.

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    A new CBS News/YouGov poll had 63% of Americans support removing U.S. troops from Afghanistan but just 47% approve of Biden’s handling of it.

    All in all, those numbers aren’t too bad.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    tlg86 said:

    A new CBS News/YouGov poll had 63% of Americans support removing U.S. troops from Afghanistan but just 47% approve of Biden’s handling of it.

    All in all, those numbers aren’t too bad.

    47% is much higher than might have been expected.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    Australia has now had 3 days in a row of over 800 cases. They will be hoping it doesn't jump again in the next few days.

    NZ has jumped from 21 to 35 cases. Their concern will be that they are rapidly losing the opportunity to get it under early control.

    Both of them under severe restrictions. We have 30K+ cases per day with almost no restrictions. Australia have now accepted that they can't stop it and just need to vaccinate as many as the UK to remove restrictions. NZ still on their Zero Covid approach but one wonders for how long.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited August 2021
    “ the mockers”? Is that a Bedfordshire term?

    EDIT: forget that; it’s Australian.
  • Although there have been some breakthrough infections with the delta variant, the vast majority (82 per cent) of people catching Covid currently have not had two doses.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/22/hidden-immunity-booster-jabs-may-not-needed/

    I don't know where they got this stat, but if correct, it is incredibly encouraging.
  • AlistairM said:

    Australia has now had 3 days in a row of over 800 cases. They will be hoping it doesn't jump again in the next few days.

    NZ has jumped from 21 to 35 cases. Their concern will be that they are rapidly losing the opportunity to get it under early control.

    Both of them under severe restrictions. We have 30K+ cases per day with almost no restrictions. Australia have now accepted that they can't stop it and just need to vaccinate as many as the UK to remove restrictions. NZ still on their Zero Covid approach but one wonders for how long.

    By the time you think you have a problem, you have a problem.....
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    theProle said:

    Nigelb said:

    Boris Johnson ‘serious’ on delivering tunnel or bridge linking Northern Ireland and Scotland, says former aide

    Dominic Cummings described it as “the world’s most stupid tunnel to Ireland”.

    However, Mr Johnson’s former communications director Guto Harri believes a ‘Boris Burrow’ or ‘Boris Bridge’ should not be dismissed entirely.

    “He wants to maintain the union and he wants to persuade the rest of the world that we're still big players and can build big things - and what would be bigger than a tunnel under the Irish Sea, linking Scotland and Northern Ireland?” he told BBC Radio Ulster’s and Radio Scotland’s Boris’ Tunnel Vision.

    https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/boris-johnson-serious-on-delivering-tunnel-or-bridgelinking-northern-ireland-and-scotland-says-former-aide-40776906.html

    Puddled.
    In other reports we have had heard that HS2 East connection thru to Leeds is to be scrapped to save money and yet Johnson is pressing on with a tunnel to N Ireland?

    Bonkers on slits.
    HS2b was getting dangerously close to becoming more than hot air and some fancy CAD sketches at an overpriced consultancy.
    I think they would have canned HS2 were it not too far advanced when Covid came. Its logical to bin HS2b now, before the point of no return is reached.

    A tunnel to Ireland is at least 10 - 15 years away from that sort of point, in the mean time its mostly just PR events and a bung or two to their favourite consultancies for some feasibility studies. Why cancel it until its really obvious it's not going to happen? Also in ten years time it's pretty much guaranteed to be someone else's problem - much better to leave this particular unexploded bomb for someone else to defuse.

    Going back to HS2, I think the idea it's popular in the red wall is a London bubble myth.
    Notherners mostly drive, quite es small percentage use the train and even fewer regularly travel long distance by train.
    My town is 20 minutes from a station on the WCML, and its under 3hours to London. We've already suffered rampant house price inflation,especially of the larger/nicer houses as people figured they could move out of London and get back to the office a couple of days a week. This isn't a trend the locals wish to continue - rich southerners are better staying in the south, rather than turning more of the country into London commuter belt.

    Almost no one in the north will benefit from HS2, its just another tool to suck everything closer to London and most northerners despise London and all its works. So cancel away - we want to pay less tax, not have it wasted on white elephants. Or if they really must spend it, they could fix some of the more appalling bits of the road network in the north - that might actually be useful for us northerners.
    There is a “London bubble” dominating Westminster and Whitehall decision-making? I’m shocked I tells ya.

    These Bubble governments really do have a talent for spaffing good money up the wall. Sitting duck aircraft carrier with no planes, Trident, Afghanistan, Iraq, HS2, Brexit, the public service pension reform fiasco, the list is endless. It’s almost as if they’ve rejected Maggie’s attempted supply side revolution.

    The Scotland-Ireland bridge is very obviously an enormous squirrel. It is indicative of the mind of someone who doesn’t know about and doesn’t care about the transport needs of those countries. A fraction of the £33 billion* sum would make a huge difference to existing transport infrastructure. Give £5 billion one-off payments each to Stormont and Holyrood, drop the idiotic bridge nonsense, and watch transport infrastructure flourish in NI and Scotland.

    The 1.4 bn wasted on the Millennium Dome and the £10 bn wasted on Concorde pale into insignificance compared to the Scotland-Ireland bridge white elephant.

    (*£33 billion is, of course, a preposterous underestimate)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    "HS2b was getting dangerously close to becoming more than hot air"

    It already is more than hot air because I see them working on it nearly every day.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    “ the mockers”? Is that a Bedfordshire term?

    EDIT: forget that; it’s Australian.

    Come to PB - extend your vocabulary
    I’m not a fan of the import of Antipodean and North American linguistic trends. I realise however that that particular battle is well and truly lost. Youngsters these days sound bloody awful. I hate to think what the kidz will sound like in a hundred years time. Luckily I won’t be here to find out.

    I have (extremely reluctantly) given up correcting American spellings and grammar. They are so prolific that it is like trying to eradicate Rhododendron ponticum with one handsaw. However, a pet hate of mine is the mixing of American English and English English in one and the same document. Pick a version and bloody stick to it, you ignorant buffoons.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    “ the mockers”? Is that a Bedfordshire term?

    EDIT: forget that; it’s Australian.

    Come to PB - extend your vocabulary
    I’m not a fan of the import of Antipodean and North American linguistic trends. I realise however that that particular battle is well and truly lost. Youngsters these days sound bloody awful. I hate to think what the kidz will sound like in a hundred years time. Luckily I won’t be here to find out.

    I have (extremely reluctantly) given up correcting American spellings and grammar. They are so prolific that it is like trying to eradicate Rhododendron ponticum with one handsaw. However, a pet hate of mine is the mixing of American English and English English in one and the same document. Pick a version and bloody stick to it, you ignorant buffoons.
    I fear you would hate UN English.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    tlg86 said:

    A new CBS News/YouGov poll had 63% of Americans support removing U.S. troops from Afghanistan but just 47% approve of Biden’s handling of it.

    All in all, those numbers aren’t too bad.

    That’s exactly what I thought.

    I can only presume that post-cognitive dissonance has not kicked in with Biden voters yet. If you look at Johnson you now see only 34% approval, and that figure is bound to fall as the Covid crisis recedes and the full horror of Brexit takes shape.

    If Kabul turns into a Suez bloodbath then both Biden’s and Johnson’s approval ratings will drop off a cliff. Anthony Eden has a good excuse: he was seriously ill. What excuses are Biden and Johnson going to come up with?

    According to the BBC a surprisingly small number - 20 - have died at Kabul airport so far. That will surely not be the final figure.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    tlg86 said:

    A new CBS News/YouGov poll had 63% of Americans support removing U.S. troops from Afghanistan but just 47% approve of Biden’s handling of it.

    All in all, those numbers aren’t too bad.

    20% is just a ludicrous number for 2024. People at the top hardly ever quit voluntarily, and incumbent presidents usually win. You can't predict the result by a news cycle three years out. If his health holds up he's likely to run again, and if he runs again he's at least a 50-50 shot, probably quite a bit better.
    That’s fighting talk on a blog about politics gambling.

    How much have you wagered on this market?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Although there have been some breakthrough infections with the delta variant, the vast majority (82 per cent) of people catching Covid currently have not had two doses.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/22/hidden-immunity-booster-jabs-may-not-needed/

    I don't know where they got this stat, but if correct, it is incredibly encouraging.

    Agreed. I’m so bloody happy to be double vaccinated. It’s like a wee bonus Christmas present. Heck no, it’s *much* better than Christmas, even a Swedish one (which are ten times better than the Anglo-American variety).

    Our middle child got his second vaccination yesterday. He was delighted and so am I. That’s all four adults done. Just the wee one left and he’s as fit as a fiddle and ineligible anyway.

    If and when we do get it (we did antibody tests, and no one’s had it yet), I’m still expecting a dreadful week, but I’m kinda hoping I don’t end up in hospital.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    Although there have been some breakthrough infections with the delta variant, the vast majority (82 per cent) of people catching Covid currently have not had two doses.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/22/hidden-immunity-booster-jabs-may-not-needed/

    I don't know where they got this stat, but if correct, it is incredibly encouraging.

    My niece, 26 years old and double Pfizer, is one of them. Just heard she has COVID. Fortunately just a mild case, which is probably because of the vaccine.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136

    tlg86 said:

    A new CBS News/YouGov poll had 63% of Americans support removing U.S. troops from Afghanistan but just 47% approve of Biden’s handling of it.

    All in all, those numbers aren’t too bad.

    That’s exactly what I thought.

    I can only presume that post-cognitive dissonance has not kicked in with Biden voters yet. If you look at Johnson you now see only 34% approval, and that figure is bound to fall as the Covid crisis recedes and the full horror of Brexit takes shape.

    If Kabul turns into a Suez bloodbath then both Biden’s and Johnson’s approval ratings will drop off a cliff. Anthony Eden has a good excuse: he was seriously ill. What excuses are Biden and Johnson going to come up with?

    According to the BBC a surprisingly small number - 20 - have died at Kabul airport so far. That will surely not be the final figure.
    The number that matters to Americans is the number of dead Americans, which currently seems to be zero, amazingly.

    The papers running on chaos obviously isn't helpful to the president but the 2024 election isn't going to turn on the GOP criticizing Biden for not getting enough Afghan refugees into America.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    TimT said:

    “ the mockers”? Is that a Bedfordshire term?

    EDIT: forget that; it’s Australian.

    Come to PB - extend your vocabulary
    I’m not a fan of the import of Antipodean and North American linguistic trends. I realise however that that particular battle is well and truly lost. Youngsters these days sound bloody awful. I hate to think what the kidz will sound like in a hundred years time. Luckily I won’t be here to find out.

    I have (extremely reluctantly) given up correcting American spellings and grammar. They are so prolific that it is like trying to eradicate Rhododendron ponticum with one handsaw. However, a pet hate of mine is the mixing of American English and English English in one and the same document. Pick a version and bloody stick to it, you ignorant buffoons.
    I fear you would hate UN English.
    Can’t be worse that Swedish English.

    I am a bit of a fan of our crown princess Victoria. A lovely woman doing a good job*. However, one day I heard her speaking English and I was horrified. Pure Yankee. Somehow you expect royals to speak English like the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha clan.

    I avoid speaking English with Swedes. They just annoy the crap out of me. Working for the state I am mercifully not obliged to speak English at work very often, unlike those poor buggers at Volvo, AstraZeneca and nearly every other large concern who are forced to speak “the company language”. “Volvo English” is a favourite object of scorn.

    One of my involuntary pastimes is proof reading documentation written by Swedes in English. Sometimes you lose the will to live.

    (* I’m a republican in Scotland and a monarchist in Sweden. Go figure. As the Yanks say.)
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Andy_JS said:

    "HS2b was getting dangerously close to becoming more than hot air"

    It already is more than hot air because I see them working on it nearly every day.

    The “b” bit?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    TimT said:

    “ the mockers”? Is that a Bedfordshire term?

    EDIT: forget that; it’s Australian.

    Come to PB - extend your vocabulary
    I’m not a fan of the import of Antipodean and North American linguistic trends. I realise however that that particular battle is well and truly lost. Youngsters these days sound bloody awful. I hate to think what the kidz will sound like in a hundred years time. Luckily I won’t be here to find out.

    I have (extremely reluctantly) given up correcting American spellings and grammar. They are so prolific that it is like trying to eradicate Rhododendron ponticum with one handsaw. However, a pet hate of mine is the mixing of American English and English English in one and the same document. Pick a version and bloody stick to it, you ignorant buffoons.
    I fear you would hate UN English.
    Can’t be worse that Swedish English.

    I am a bit of a fan of our crown princess Victoria. A lovely woman doing a good job*. However, one day I heard her speaking English and I was horrified. Pure Yankee. Somehow you expect royals to speak English like the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha clan.

    I avoid speaking English with Swedes. They just annoy the crap out of me. Working for the state I am mercifully not obliged to speak English at work very often, unlike those poor buggers at Volvo, AstraZeneca and nearly every other large concern who are forced to speak “the company language”. “Volvo English” is a favourite object of scorn.

    One of my involuntary pastimes is proof reading documentation written by Swedes in English. Sometimes you lose the will to live.

    (* I’m a republican in Scotland and a monarchist in Sweden. Go figure. As the Yanks say.)
    The Swedes I deal with - most of my clients - speak excellent English and are unfailingly charming. I’m sorry that you struggle to fit into your adopted country
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    tlg86 said:

    A new CBS News/YouGov poll had 63% of Americans support removing U.S. troops from Afghanistan but just 47% approve of Biden’s handling of it.

    All in all, those numbers aren’t too bad.

    Yup, and this is against a background of almost universal press hostility. They also can't really brag about the successes of the evacuation yet: For example they seem to have evacuated Americans with exactly zero deaths, which is definitely not what you'd have predicted if you heard Kabul fell to the Taliban over the course of a weekend with a bunch of diplomats and aid workers still there. But we don't yet know for sure that this will be true next week, so all they can do right now is damage control.

    20% is just a ludicrous number for 2024. People at the top hardly ever quit voluntarily, and incumbent presidents usually win. You can't predict the result by a news cycle three years out. If his health holds up he's likely to run again, and if he runs again he's at least a 50-50 shot, probably quite a bit better.
    Couldn't agree less. I don't like amateur Internet psychological diagnoses but this one has betting implications. He is deteriorating fast and by 2024 he'll be at the stage when other people can de facto make the decision for him by " forgetting" to get his nomination papers in on time or something.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    “ the mockers”? Is that a Bedfordshire term?

    EDIT: forget that; it’s Australian.

    Come to PB - extend your vocabulary
    I’m not a fan of the import of Antipodean and North American linguistic trends. I realise however that that particular battle is well and truly lost. Youngsters these days sound bloody awful. I hate to think what the kidz will sound like in a hundred years time. Luckily I won’t be here to find out.

    I have (extremely reluctantly) given up correcting American spellings and grammar. They are so prolific that it is like trying to eradicate Rhododendron ponticum with one handsaw. However, a pet hate of mine is the mixing of American English and English English in one and the same document. Pick a version and bloody stick to it, you ignorant buffoons.
    I fear you would hate UN English.
    Can’t be worse that Swedish English.

    I am a bit of a fan of our crown princess Victoria. A lovely woman doing a good job*. However, one day I heard her speaking English and I was horrified. Pure Yankee. Somehow you expect royals to speak English like the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha clan.

    I avoid speaking English with Swedes. They just annoy the crap out of me. Working for the state I am mercifully not obliged to speak English at work very often, unlike those poor buggers at Volvo, AstraZeneca and nearly every other large concern who are forced to speak “the company language”. “Volvo English” is a favourite object of scorn.

    One of my involuntary pastimes is proof reading documentation written by Swedes in English. Sometimes you lose the will to live.

    (* I’m a republican in Scotland and a monarchist in Sweden. Go figure. As the Yanks say.)
    The Swedes I deal with - most of my clients - speak excellent English and are unfailingly charming. I’m sorry that you struggle to fit into your adopted country
    I have a Swedish personality and a Scottish personality. You only ever see my Scottish one. In Sweden I’m as boring and meek as fuck. Never do “charm” in either version. Well, not outwith the bedroom.

    You do realise that being “unfailingly charming” is just a tool, don’t you? Just like your name-dropping.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    "Afghanistan: Taliban warns there will be 'consequences' if Biden delays withdrawal of US troops

    The Taliban meets Sky News in Doha to discuss what happens next - and issues a stark warning about the withdrawal of troops from the country.

    Taliban spokesperson Dr Suhail Shaheen said: "It's a red line. President Biden announced that on 31 August they would withdraw all their military forces. So if they extend it that means they are extending occupation while there is no need for that."

    He added: "If the US or UK were to seek additional time to continue evacuations - the answer is no. Or there would be consequences.

    "It will create mistrust between us. If they are intent on continuing the occupation it will provoke a reaction." "

    https://news.sky.com/story/amp/afghanistan-taliban-warns-there-will-be-consequences-if-biden-delays-withdrawal-of-us-troops-12388436
  • theProletheProle Posts: 948
    Andy_JS said:

    "HS2b was getting dangerously close to becoming more than hot air"

    It already is more than hot air because I see them working on it nearly every day.

    Really? Aiui HS2b is the Leeds/York arm - and I didn't think they'd dug a single hole in the ground for it yet.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good morning, everyone.

    A persistent problem with polling is that a percentage for/against something indicates breadth of a view but not really depth (and that might be something even the individuals in questions can't accurately assess). If 20% of people are mildly peeved that matters less than if 8% are livid and won't forget, and have their vote determined by said cause of fury.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited August 2021
    Also Sky News

    "Afghanistan: Boris Johnson to personally plead with Joe Biden to extend deadline for US withdrawal
    The PM will use an emergency G7 summit of the world's most powerful leaders to appeal to the president to delay the 31 August deadline to tackle the chaos and mayhem at Kabul airport."

    Edit fixed link

    https://news.sky.com/story/afghanistan-boris-johnson-to-personally-plead-with-joe-biden-to-extend-deadline-for-us-withdrawal-12388435
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,758
    For me the question remains whether Biden will finish his current term. I think that there is next to no chance of him running again. The first question determines whether Harris is running as the incumbent, in which event she probably gets the nomination, or not, in which case she almost certainly doesn't.

    The big story in the US is whether Biden is going to get his finance package through or not. If he does Buttigieg will practically never be off the news as the US infrastructure finally gets refurbished. That will make him a serious player but apparently there are some Democrats who are not supporting it at the moment.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    tlg86 said:

    A new CBS News/YouGov poll had 63% of Americans support removing U.S. troops from Afghanistan but just 47% approve of Biden’s handling of it.

    All in all, those numbers aren’t too bad.

    That’s exactly what I thought.

    I can only presume that post-cognitive dissonance has not kicked in with Biden voters yet. If you look at Johnson you now see only 34% approval, and that figure is bound to fall as the Covid crisis recedes and the full horror of Brexit takes shape.

    If Kabul turns into a Suez bloodbath then both Biden’s and Johnson’s approval ratings will drop off a cliff. Anthony Eden has a good excuse: he was seriously ill. What excuses are Biden and Johnson going to come up with?

    According to the BBC a surprisingly small number - 20 - have died at Kabul airport so far. That will surely not be the final figure.
    Looks like boris is going to ask joe to delay US final evacuation date beyond august 31st. Does he really want this or is it just optics so it looks like he's trying? Another headline said RAF aiming to get 6000 out. Doesnt sound too many over 9 days but I guess the bottleneck is getting to airport rather than plane capacity.

    Either way I think the hardest bit will be getting the last few troops out of whatever nationality. Nobody defending the airport perimeter then.

    Maybe boris wants US to say they might stay beyond August so the attacks being planned for Sept 1st fail because we all disappeared in the night.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited August 2021

    Good morning, everyone.

    A persistent problem with polling is that a percentage for/against something indicates breadth of a view but not really depth (and that might be something even the individuals in questions can't accurately assess). If 20% of people are mildly peeved that matters less than if 8% are livid and won't forget, and have their vote determined by said cause of fury.

    The linked article is worth reading

    "Along with the drop in approval, there's been a more specific impact on qualities the public sees in Mr. Biden. He'd been positive on qualities like competence, focus, and effectiveness — now those are each at least slightly net negative."

    And

    "With the Taliban now in control, Americans fear the threat of terrorism will go up. It may come as no surprise that this view is held in even higher numbers by Republicans, for whom it is often a larger concern and a point on which to criticize the Biden administration. "

    And

    "On some of these measures we find a lot of partisan agreement, more than we commonly see on other topics these days. Most in each party say the way troops were withdrawn has gone badly, and most across party lines agree that the U.S. ought to help Afghans who helped the U.S."

    All bad news for Biden. As they note cross party condemnation is a big deal these days.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 948
    edited August 2021
    Fishing said:

    theProle said:



    HS2b was getting dangerously close to becoming more than hot air and some fancy CAD sketches at an overpriced consultancy.
    I think they would have canned HS2 were it not too far advanced when Covid came. Its logical to bin HS2b now, before the point of no return is reached.

    A tunnel to Ireland is at least 10 - 15 years away from that sort of point, in the mean time its mostly just PR events and a bung or two to their favourite consultancies for some feasibility studies. Why cancel it until its really obvious it's not going to happen? Also in ten years time it's pretty much guaranteed to be someone else's problem - much better to leave this particular unexploded bomb for someone else to defuse.

    Going back to HS2, I think the idea it's popular in the red wall is a London bubble myth.
    Notherners mostly drive, quite es small percentage use the train and even fewer regularly travel long distance by train.
    My town is 20 minutes from a station on the WCML, and its under 3hours to London. We've already suffered rampant house price inflation,especially of the larger/nicer houses as people figured they could move out of London and get back to the office a couple of days a week. This isn't a trend the locals wish to continue - rich southerners are better staying in the south, rather than turning more of the country into London commuter belt.

    Almost no one in the north will benefit from HS2, its just another tool to suck everything closer to London and most northerners despise London and all its works. So cancel away - we want to pay less tax, not have it wasted on white elephants. Or if they really must spend it, they could fix some of the more appalling bits of the road network in the north - that might actually be useful for us northerners.

    Northerners clearly don't despite ALL London's works as they are happy enough to take the gigantic subsidies those works fund.
    I think you're looking at the wrong end of the telescope on this one.
    London spaffs money at the north, mostly on stuff Northerners don't actually want (see also very expensive trainsets so the London politicians can do their "northern" photo ops in Manchester and be sure to be back home in London in time for tea). They then have the cheek to expect the north to be grateful for their largesse.

    Its also a circular game - London is full of consultants and lobbyists, tax payer funded pressure groups and the rest. They say they are investing £x in infrastructure in the North, then shovel half of the £x to their mates in London, before half the time cancelling the project anyway. This sort of activity is actually London subsidising London.

    Of course this utter misdirection of funds happens at every level of government which is why the state should be cut back to being as small as possible, with as much direct democracy as possible.

    A trivial example. My local council decided to paint 20mph signs on the road past my house. It makes zero difference to the speed of anyone driving down that street, and probably cost the equivalent of my entire council tax payment for the year. No rational person asked "would you like us to spend all your council tax on white paint" would say yes, but they did it anyway, at a time when they were also whinging and groaning about having no money because of government cuts.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    TimT said:

    Although there have been some breakthrough infections with the delta variant, the vast majority (82 per cent) of people catching Covid currently have not had two doses.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/22/hidden-immunity-booster-jabs-may-not-needed/

    I don't know where they got this stat, but if correct, it is incredibly encouraging.

    My niece, 26 years old and double Pfizer, is one of them. Just heard she has COVID. Fortunately just a mild case, which is probably because of the vaccine.
    My 15yo niece has just had her first jab. Not sure which one. I didnt even know they were eligible yet.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Governments around the world are uncovering secret operations to expand China's influence - the work of a little-known branch of the Chinese Communist Party called the United Front Work Department. President Xi has called it his 'magic weapon'.

    Australia has changed its laws to combat foreign interference, and America says eight out of ten industrial espionage cases now involve China. So what is the United Front doing in the UK? Jane Corbin investigates this powerful but shadowy organisation. Has influence become interference as China bids to become the most powerful nation on earth?


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000z2yt
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    Kamala Harris joins diplomatic charm offensive in South East Asia
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58277226
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,758
    Nigelb said:

    Kamala Harris joins diplomatic charm offensive in South East Asia
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58277226

    What could go wrong?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    theProle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "HS2b was getting dangerously close to becoming more than hot air"

    It already is more than hot air because I see them working on it nearly every day.

    Really? Aiui HS2b is the Leeds/York arm - and I didn't think they'd dug a single hole in the ground for it yet.
    I don't think 'HS2b' officially means anything. There is HS2 Phase 1 (London to Birmingham), HS2 Phase 2a (Birmingham to Crewe) and Phase 2b (Crewe to Manchester, and West Midlands to Leeds)

    HS2 Phase 1 is being constructed at the moment.
    HS2 Phase 2a is currently at the enabling works stage.
    HS2 Phase 2b (both legs) are at the advanced planning stage, with work possible starting next year. If one or both legs are not canned.

    People are just lazily leaving off the phase and mangling it together with the project name.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 948
    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    DavidL said:

    TimT said:

    Although there have been some breakthrough infections with the delta variant, the vast majority (82 per cent) of people catching Covid currently have not had two doses.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/22/hidden-immunity-booster-jabs-may-not-needed/

    I don't know where they got this stat, but if correct, it is incredibly encouraging.

    My niece, 26 years old and double Pfizer, is one of them. Just heard she has COVID. Fortunately just a mild case, which is probably because of the vaccine.
    My 15yo niece has just had her first jab. Not sure which one. I didnt even know they were eligible yet.
    My son has just got his appointment for his second jab which means he will have had it in good time for going away to University in October which is a relief. Hopefully he is not unusual in this and the return of University Halls will be less of an issue than it was last year.
    Same applies to Younger Grandson. Leaves for University late in September.

    And Good Morning everybody. Weather looked, yesterday evening as though it was brightening up, but the cloud cover is back this morning. Fractionally warmer though, at 13.9degC.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Prole, hope you make a full and swift recovery.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Have had a double dosed (AZ) friend come down with it - like a "bad flu" but now on the mend - we're all going to get it sooner or later. Hope you keep getting better.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    (Snip). Give £5 billion one-off payments each to Stormont and Holyrood, drop the idiotic bridge nonsense, and watch transport infrastructure flourish in NI and Scotland.
    (/Snip)

    Not really. Just one project - the much-needed duelling of the A9 between Perth and Inverness - is costing £3 billion. The new Queensferry Crossing cost £1.3 billion.

    That's two projects that have swallowed up nearly all that money. Necessary projects; yes (though I still think the Queensferry Bridge should have had a walkway/cyclepath), but such money soon disappears.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    DavidL said:

    For me the question remains whether Biden will finish his current term. I think that there is next to no chance of him running again. The first question determines whether Harris is running as the incumbent, in which event she probably gets the nomination, or not, in which case she almost certainly doesn't.

    The big story in the US is whether Biden is going to get his finance package through or not. If he does Buttigieg will practically never be off the news as the US infrastructure finally gets refurbished. That will make him a serious player but apparently there are some Democrats who are not supporting it at the moment.

    If I have understood it, there are two big packages: infrastructure and general social welfare and government support. Presumably it is the former that will see Buttigieg all over the news. The former has support from both parties and was about to be passed but Pelosi wants them both passed at same time and that is causing an issue with 9 key democrats.

    I'm paraphrasing what seems a rather complex legislative situation, so hope I have got it roughly right.

    In other news Buttigieg announced he is to have a child with his partner.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    tlg86 said:

    A new CBS News/YouGov poll had 63% of Americans support removing U.S. troops from Afghanistan but just 47% approve of Biden’s handling of it.

    All in all, those numbers aren’t too bad.

    That’s exactly what I thought.

    I can only presume that post-cognitive dissonance has not kicked in with Biden voters yet. If you look at Johnson you now see only 34% approval, and that figure is bound to fall as the Covid crisis recedes and the full horror of Brexit takes shape.

    If Kabul turns into a Suez bloodbath then both Biden’s and Johnson’s approval ratings will drop off a cliff. Anthony Eden has a good excuse: he was seriously ill. What excuses are Biden and Johnson going to come up with?

    According to the BBC a surprisingly small number - 20 - have died at Kabul airport so far. That will surely not be the final figure.
    Looks like boris is going to ask joe to delay US final evacuation date beyond august 31st. Does he really want this or is it just optics so it looks like he's trying? Another headline said RAF aiming to get 6000 out. Doesnt sound too many over 9 days but I guess the bottleneck is getting to airport rather than plane capacity.

    Either way I think the hardest bit will be getting the last few troops out of whatever nationality. Nobody defending the airport perimeter then.

    Maybe boris wants US to say they might stay beyond August so the attacks being planned for Sept 1st fail because we all disappeared in the night.
    Optics. The Taliban won't wear an extension.

    Biggest gamble? Delegating to the Taliban on a point of honour the task of ensuring a least bad withdrawal of those eligible.

    Biggest risk? They lose interest or, as likely, other factions choose the airport to make a play for power or a place at the table with bloody consequences for all.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    Although there have been some breakthrough infections with the delta variant, the vast majority (82 per cent) of people catching Covid currently have not had two doses.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/22/hidden-immunity-booster-jabs-may-not-needed/

    I don't know where they got this stat, but if correct, it is incredibly encouraging.

    Agreed. I’m so bloody happy to be double vaccinated. It’s like a wee bonus Christmas present. Heck no, it’s *much* better than Christmas, even a Swedish one (which are ten times better than the Anglo-American variety).

    Our middle child got his second vaccination yesterday. He was delighted and so am I. That’s all four adults done. Just the wee one left and he’s as fit as a fiddle and ineligible anyway.

    If and when we do get it (we did antibody tests, and no one’s had it yet), I’m still expecting a dreadful week, but I’m kinda hoping I don’t end up in hospital.
    If you are all mostly vaccinated and have done antibody tests, you wouldn’t be expecting negative results?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Hope you have a speedy and full recovery.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    theProle said:

    Fishing said:

    theProle said:



    HS2b was getting dangerously close to becoming more than hot air and some fancy CAD sketches at an overpriced consultancy.
    I think they would have canned HS2 were it not too far advanced when Covid came. Its logical to bin HS2b now, before the point of no return is reached.

    A tunnel to Ireland is at least 10 - 15 years away from that sort of point, in the mean time its mostly just PR events and a bung or two to their favourite consultancies for some feasibility studies. Why cancel it until its really obvious it's not going to happen? Also in ten years time it's pretty much guaranteed to be someone else's problem - much better to leave this particular unexploded bomb for someone else to defuse.

    Going back to HS2, I think the idea it's popular in the red wall is a London bubble myth.
    Notherners mostly drive, quite es small percentage use the train and even fewer regularly travel long distance by train.
    My town is 20 minutes from a station on the WCML, and its under 3hours to London. We've already suffered rampant house price inflation,especially of the larger/nicer houses as people figured they could move out of London and get back to the office a couple of days a week. This isn't a trend the locals wish to continue - rich southerners are better staying in the south, rather than turning more of the country into London commuter belt.

    Almost no one in the north will benefit from HS2, its just another tool to suck everything closer to London and most northerners despise London and all its works. So cancel away - we want to pay less tax, not have it wasted on white elephants. Or if they really must spend it, they could fix some of the more appalling bits of the road network in the north - that might actually be useful for us northerners.

    Northerners clearly don't despite ALL London's works as they are happy enough to take the gigantic subsidies those works fund.
    I think you're looking at the wrong end of the telescope on this one.
    London spaffs money at the north, mostly on stuff Northerners don't actually want (see also very expensive trainsets so the London politicians can do their "northern" photo ops in Manchester and be sure to be back home in London in time for tea). They then have the cheek to expect the north to be grateful for their largesse.

    Its also a circular game - London is full of consultants and lobbyists, tax payer funded pressure groups and the rest. They say they are investing £x in infrastructure in the North, then shovel half of the £x to their mates in London, before half the time cancelling the project anyway. This sort of activity is actually London subsidising London.

    Of course this utter misdirection of funds happens at every level of government which is why the state should be cut back to being as small as possible, with as much direct democracy as possible.

    A trivial example. My local council decided to paint 20mph signs on the road past my house. It makes zero difference to the speed of anyone driving down that street, and probably cost the equivalent of my entire council tax payment for the year. No rational person asked "would you like us to spend all your council tax on white paint" would say yes, but they did it anyway, at a time when they were also whinging and groaning about having no money because of government cuts.
    It is difficult to believe that such a direct nudge makes zero difference to people's behaviour.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Singapore & Germany open travel corridor for the fully vaccinated:

    https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapores-covid-19-travel-lane-with-germany-should-you-go
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    edited August 2021
    theProle said:

    Fishing said:

    theProle said:



    HS2b was getting dangerously close to becoming more than hot air and some fancy CAD sketches at an overpriced consultancy.
    I think they would have canned HS2 were it not too far advanced when Covid came. Its logical to bin HS2b now, before the point of no return is reached.

    A tunnel to Ireland is at least 10 - 15 years away from that sort of point, in the mean time its mostly just PR events and a bung or two to their favourite consultancies for some feasibility studies. Why cancel it until its really obvious it's not going to happen? Also in ten years time it's pretty much guaranteed to be someone else's problem - much better to leave this particular unexploded bomb for someone else to defuse.

    Going back to HS2, I think the idea it's popular in the red wall is a London bubble myth.
    Notherners mostly drive, quite es small percentage use the train and even fewer regularly travel long distance by train.
    My town is 20 minutes from a station on the WCML, and its under 3hours to London. We've already suffered rampant house price inflation,especially of the larger/nicer houses as people figured they could move out of London and get back to the office a couple of days a week. This isn't a trend the locals wish to continue - rich southerners are better staying in the south, rather than turning more of the country into London commuter belt.

    Almost no one in the north will benefit from HS2, its just another tool to suck everything closer to London and most northerners despise London and all its works. So cancel away - we want to pay less tax, not have it wasted on white elephants. Or if they really must spend it, they could fix some of the more appalling bits of the road network in the north - that might actually be useful for us northerners.

    Northerners clearly don't despite ALL London's works as they are happy enough to take the gigantic subsidies those works fund.
    I think you're looking at the wrong end of the telescope on this one.
    London spaffs money at the north, mostly on stuff Northerners don't actually want (see also very expensive trainsets so the London politicians can do their "northern" photo ops in Manchester and be sure to be back home in London in time for tea). They then have the cheek to expect the north to be grateful for their largesse.

    Its also a circular game - London is full of consultants and lobbyists, tax payer funded pressure groups and the rest. They say they are investing £x in infrastructure in the North, then shovel half of the £x to their mates in London, before half the time cancelling the project anyway. This sort of activity is actually London subsidising London.

    Of course this utter misdirection of funds happens at every level of government which is why the state should be cut back to being as small as possible, with as much direct democracy as possible.

    A trivial example. My local council decided to paint 20mph signs on the road past my house. It makes zero difference to the speed of anyone driving down that street, and probably cost the equivalent of my entire council tax payment for the year. No rational person asked "would you like us to spend all your council tax on white paint" would say yes, but they did it anyway, at a time when they were also whinging and groaning about having no money because of government cuts.
    There are a fair few studies on the impact of such zones with moderate to strong evidence that they reduce casualty rates. Even though compliance - in terms of people generally driving at 20 mph - is poor, the findings suggest that people do reduce speed (with faster drivers reducing by more) and this improves safety. There is also evidence that sign-only schemes are the least effective and the more other stuff you do - painting the road, humps, traffic calming, chicanes, etc - the more effective the zone.

    In simple terms, a having a 20moh zone is a very effective way of limiting speeds to 30mph, whereas the pre-existing occasional 30 sign on a lamppost is not.

    So the likelihood is that your council tax money was well spent. And your neighbour’s contribution spent on something else.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Careful, Mr. Jessop. Being critical of public healthcare in the UK might get you a fatwa.

    I'm glad your son was ok, but (though I said it flippantly) it's a serious problem for the country that the NHS and GPs have a nigh on religious status.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    edited August 2021
    Delighted we have appointed cricket legend @BeefyBotham as our new trade envoy to Australia

    Ian will bat for United Kingdom business Down Under and help them seize the opportunities created by our historic trade deal.

    He’ll do a brilliant job


    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1429685742691835907?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Notable story in the Mail, both in the fact that it happened and that it’s being reported.

    SAS extraction snatch squad picked up a couple of dozen of their own near Kandahar, using a Hercules landed in the desert.

    Reading between the lines, it looks like they were down there trying to reopen the airfield, but the Taliban got there first and our boys decided it wasn’t worth the fight.

    It also tells us there’s a lot of special forces hiding in the ‘Stan at the moment, presumably trying to mop up Westerners before the safe routes out close.

    Who dares wins.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9917109/SAS-dramatic-desert-raid-save-troops-Taliban.html
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited August 2021

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    Absolutely. For all the applause the NHS is barely fit for purpose. For 95% of the time it is fine but of course that leaves many hundreds of thousands of cases such as your own. Ask any friend and they will have similar stories. I have too many to mention.

    The most "amusing" of which is, when I had a suspected broken bone they made an appointment to see a doctor five weeks later to discuss treatment.

    I was at a private consultant the following day (and yes readers it was broken).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    This study will test the COVID-19 vaccine candidate AZD1222 to investigate its safety, tolerability and capability of boosting immune responses both in the blood and the lung when administered to the respiratory tract, in volunteers previously vaccinated by intramuscular COVID-19 vaccination. Using standardised methods, we will measure immune responses in the blood, nose and lower airway and compare with data from ongoing clinical trials of intramuscular vaccination. Thus, we will show the effect of the delivery method and provide the critical information required to begin further clinical trials to show the efficacy of this needle-free vaccination strategy for booster vaccination.

    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05007275
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Politico reporting higher number evacuated by UK:

    5,725: The number of people airlifted out of Afghanistan on U.K. flights since August 13.

    3,100: The number of those who are Afghans.

    1,000: The number evacuated in a 14-hour period this weekend.

    6,000: The number the Times’ Steve Swinford reports Britain wants to evacuate from Afghanistan this week. The last RAF evacuation flight had been due to take off tomorrow. Swinford reports that will now be pushed back to Friday or Saturday to get more people out. He says ministers still fear “hundreds, if not thousands” will be left behind.


    https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/politico-london-playbook-bide-your-time-58-days-of-summer-reshuffle-rumor-mill/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,877

    Although there have been some breakthrough infections with the delta variant, the vast majority (82 per cent) of people catching Covid currently have not had two doses.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/22/hidden-immunity-booster-jabs-may-not-needed/

    I don't know where they got this stat, but if correct, it is incredibly encouraging.

    It’s far too easy for people shouting loudly about getting infected after two jabs (Marr, for instance) to distort the overall perception.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    Delighted we have appointed cricket legend @BeefyBotham as our new trade envoy to Australia

    Ian will bat for United Kingdom business Down Under and help them seize the opportunities created by our historic trade deal.

    He’ll do a brilliant job


    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1429685742691835907?s=20

    I'm not sure he's done 'a brilliant job' with Durham Cricket, has he? And, from what I've seen, he can be quite aggressive.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    US now promising a continuous airlift until Kabul evacuation is completed
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    Perhaps, but talking to people, there wouldn't be many. I know of several families who have oved surgery to the nearest village, and one who has somehow moved to one on St Neots, eight miles away ...

    Another story: I needed an urgent scan on my lungs. It is arranged and I go to Hinchinbrooke. A couple of days later I get a letter from the doctor saying the results are in. So I turn up with Mrs J, who is very worried, and the doctor doesn't know anything about it. I show him a letter, from the GP surgery, with his name, telling me to come in for the results. We wait, but they cannot find them. The result was that I had to take time off and go back to Hunchinbrooke for more scans...

    The surgery blamed Hinchinbrooke. But I doubt it: why did the GP surgery send me a letter saying they had the results, along with an appointment time?

    We have other stories, and I have heard worse from other people. Yet our previous GP in Romsey (Southampton, not Town), was superb: proactive, efficient, professional. And the one before that south of Cambridge was the same.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,730
    edited August 2021

    theProle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "HS2b was getting dangerously close to becoming more than hot air"

    It already is more than hot air because I see them working on it nearly every day.

    Really? Aiui HS2b is the Leeds/York arm - and I didn't think they'd dug a single hole in the ground for it yet.
    I don't think 'HS2b' officially means anything. There is HS2 Phase 1 (London to Birmingham), HS2 Phase 2a (Birmingham to Crewe) and Phase 2b (Crewe to Manchester, and West Midlands to Leeds)

    HS2 Phase 1 is being constructed at the moment.
    HS2 Phase 2a is currently at the enabling works stage.
    HS2 Phase 2b (both legs) are at the advanced planning stage, with work possible starting next year. If one or both legs are not canned.

    People are just lazily leaving off the phase and mangling it together with the project name.
    One of the many civil servants at the DfT taking money from the road lobby is clearly trying to put pressure on the government to scrap the Leeds leg. We can tell that from the false figures included in the report. Might even be the same one who buggered up the contracts and caused costs to balloon in the first place.

    Problem is, this government usually does cave in to pressure like this - see schools reopening and the postponement of June unlocking - although I wonder if it was a tactical error leaking this one in the Mirror rather than the Mail.

    The bigger problem, and why this is genius on the part of the road lobby, is that without the HS2 extension to Leeds and the reduction in pressure on the ECML there is no realistic prospect of reopening any closed lines or otherwise improving local services in the East Midlands and particularly in Yorkshire, as the station capacity simply won’t be there.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    Perhaps, but talking to people, there wouldn't be many. I know of several families who have oved surgery to the nearest village, and one who has somehow moved to one on St Neots, eight miles away ...

    Another story: I needed an urgent scan on my lungs. It is arranged and I go to Hinchinbrooke. A couple of days later I get a letter from the doctor saying the results are in. So I turn up with Mrs J, who is very worried, and the doctor doesn't know anything about it. I show him a letter, from the GP surgery, with his name, telling me to come in for the results. We wait, but they cannot find them. The result was that I had to take time off and go back to Hunchinbrooke for more scans...

    The surgery blamed Hinchinbrooke. But I doubt it: why did the GP surgery send me a letter saying they had the results, along with an appointment time?

    We have other stories, and I have heard worse from other people. Yet our previous GP in Romsey (Southampton, not Town), was superb: proactive, efficient, professional. And the one before that south of Cambridge was the same.
    I wonder what GP services will be put in place for Cambourne West.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 948

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    That wasn't the issue here. The last GP I'd seen (about 15 years ago) had my correct address, but no actual medical records.
    I only found that out after 45 mins on hold trying to speak to their receptionist, who was pretty rude and unhelpful when I finally got hold of her.
    I think I'm now registered with a local practice, but don't really know 100% as I filled in all the forms online, and only got an instantaneous automated email which literally just said (in plain text, nothing else) "thank you for registering with *** medical practice."

    I got my jab my driving 30 miles to a no questions asked walk in centre. I'll probably have to repeat the process for the second dose (I've no booking).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    Perhaps, but talking to people, there wouldn't be many. I know of several families who have oved surgery to the nearest village, and one who has somehow moved to one on St Neots, eight miles away ...

    Another story: I needed an urgent scan on my lungs. It is arranged and I go to Hinchinbrooke. A couple of days later I get a letter from the doctor saying the results are in. So I turn up with Mrs J, who is very worried, and the doctor doesn't know anything about it. I show him a letter, from the GP surgery, with his name, telling me to come in for the results. We wait, but they cannot find them. The result was that I had to take time off and go back to Hunchinbrooke for more scans...

    The surgery blamed Hinchinbrooke. But I doubt it: why did the GP surgery send me a letter saying they had the results, along with an appointment time?

    We have other stories, and I have heard worse from other people. Yet our previous GP in Romsey (Southampton, not Town), was superb: proactive, efficient, professional. And the one before that south of Cambridge was the same.
    Every sympathy. I wouldn't direct someone I disliked to some of the surgeries I've visited in my time.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    Perhaps, but talking to people, there wouldn't be many. I know of several families who have oved surgery to the nearest village, and one who has somehow moved to one on St Neots, eight miles away ...

    Another story: I needed an urgent scan on my lungs. It is arranged and I go to Hinchinbrooke. A couple of days later I get a letter from the doctor saying the results are in. So I turn up with Mrs J, who is very worried, and the doctor doesn't know anything about it. I show him a letter, from the GP surgery, with his name, telling me to come in for the results. We wait, but they cannot find them. The result was that I had to take time off and go back to Hunchinbrooke for more scans...

    The surgery blamed Hinchinbrooke. But I doubt it: why did the GP surgery send me a letter saying they had the results, along with an appointment time?

    We have other stories, and I have heard worse from other people. Yet our previous GP in Romsey (Southampton, not Town), was superb: proactive, efficient, professional. And the one before that south of Cambridge was the same.
    Every sympathy. I wouldn't direct someone I disliked to some of the surgeries I've visited in my time.
    Good thinking; keep the good stuff to yourself!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Covid incidence in Germany is up 56% week on week; ICU occupancy up 38%. The candidates for the chancellery are ruling out a return to lockdown, but covid clearly has the potential to complicate the election campaign.

    https://twitter.com/tom_nuttall/status/1429696651984261126?s=20
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Oh and another favourite story is the GP and I at her desk googling conditions because she had never heard of the potential condition, the symptoms of which I was presenting with.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    TOPPING said:

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    Absolutely. For all the applause the NHS is barely fit for purpose. For 95% of the time it is fine but of course that leaves many hundreds of thousands of cases such as your own. Ask any friend and they will have similar stories. I have too many to mention.

    The most "amusing" of which is, when I had a suspected broken bone they made an appointment to see a doctor five weeks later to discuss treatment.

    I was at a private consultant the following day (and yes readers it was broken).
    On the other hand: a few years back I fractured my elbow at Cape Wrath, at the very northwestern tip of Scotland. I made my way back to the hotel in the tiny village of Durness. It was about five in the afternoon, and when I realised how badly I'd bollocked up my arm (I couldn't undress), I asked the receptionist for a doctor. They phoned him for me, and he was in Rhiconich, many miles away. He was at Durness half an hour later, and he came back the next day (I think a Saturday) to do further tests.

    Brilliant service. I was offered an ambulance to the nearest A&E in Inverness, which was three hours away. Instead I awaited for my dad and sister to come and rescue me, as I couldn't drive.

    GP services really are varied.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited August 2021
    I think this morning so far on PB has proved the point. No matter how amazing parts of the NHS undoubtedly are, overall there are far too many instances of appalling service and treatment.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    TOPPING said:

    Oh and another favourite story is the GP and I at her desk googling conditions because she had never heard of the potential condition, the symptoms of which I was presenting with.

    IMV: the NHS is brilliant if you have conditions it knows about and can categorise. You may have to wait for a new hip, but they'll get it done. They're great with most cancers and heart problems.

    They're terrible when it comes to conditions they cannot diagnose or categorise.

    I've no idea about mental health conditions, but I doubt it's overall good.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    TOPPING said:

    I think this morning so far on PB has proved the point. No matter how amazing parts of the NHS undoubtedly are, overall there are far too many instances of appalling service and treatment.

    Anyone who’s lived abroad in a developed country will agree with that. The NHS, for all the worship, is terrible at customer service and patient outcomes. The only developed country that comes close to being as bad is the USA, for exactly the opposite reasons.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 948
    IanB2 said:

    theProle said:

    Fishing said:

    theProle said:



    HS2b was getting dangerously close to becoming more than hot air and some fancy CAD sketches at an overpriced consultancy.
    I think they would have canned HS2 were it not too far advanced when Covid came. Its logical to bin HS2b now, before the point of no return is reached.

    A tunnel to Ireland is at least 10 - 15 years away from that sort of point, in the mean time its mostly just PR events and a bung or two to their favourite consultancies for some feasibility studies. Why cancel it until its really obvious it's not going to happen? Also in ten years time it's pretty much guaranteed to be someone else's problem - much better to leave this particular unexploded bomb for someone else to defuse.

    Going back to HS2, I think the idea it's popular in the red wall is a London bubble myth.
    Notherners mostly drive, quite es small percentage use the train and even fewer regularly travel long distance by train.
    My town is 20 minutes from a station on the WCML, and its under 3hours to London. We've already suffered rampant house price inflation,especially of the larger/nicer houses as people figured they could move out of London and get back to the office a couple of days a week. This isn't a trend the locals wish to continue - rich southerners are better staying in the south, rather than turning more of the country into London commuter belt.

    Almost no one in the north will benefit from HS2, its just another tool to suck everything closer to London and most northerners despise London and all its works. So cancel away - we want to pay less tax, not have it wasted on white elephants. Or if they really must spend it, they could fix some of the more appalling bits of the road network in the north - that might actually be useful for us northerners.

    Northerners clearly don't despite ALL London's works as they are happy enough to take the gigantic subsidies those works fund.
    I think you're looking at the wrong end of the telescope on this one.
    London spaffs money at the north, mostly on stuff Northerners don't actually want (see also very expensive trainsets so the London politicians can do their "northern" photo ops in Manchester and be sure to be back home in London in time for tea). They then have the cheek to expect the north to be grateful for their largesse.

    Its also a circular game - London is full of consultants and lobbyists, tax payer funded pressure groups and the rest. They say they are investing £x in infrastructure in the North, then shovel half of the £x to their mates in London, before half the time cancelling the project anyway. This sort of activity is actually London subsidising London.

    Of course this utter misdirection of funds happens at every level of government which is why the state should be cut back to being as small as possible, with as much direct democracy as possible.

    A trivial example. My local council decided to paint 20mph signs on the road past my house. It makes zero difference to the speed of anyone driving down that street, and probably cost the equivalent of my entire council tax payment for the year. No rational person asked "would you like us to spend all your council tax on white paint" would say yes, but they did it anyway, at a time when they were also whinging and groaning about having no money because of government cuts.
    There are a fair few studies on the impact of such zones with moderate to strong evidence that they reduce casualty rates. Even though compliance - in terms of people generally driving at 20 mph - is poor, the findings suggest that people do reduce speed (with faster drivers reducing by more) and this improves safety. There is also evidence that sign-only schemes are the least effective and the more other stuff you do - painting the road, humps, traffic calming, chicanes, etc - the more effective the zone.

    In simple terms, a having a 20moh zone is a very effective way of limiting speeds to 30mph, whereas the pre-existing occasional 30 sign on a lamppost is not.

    So the likelihood is that your council tax money was well spent. And your neighbour’s contribution spent on something else.
    You'd do quite well to drive down my street at 30mph - we didn't have a traffic problem before the paint was applied.

    It's not the most egregious bit of "traffic calming" they've done on my estate - on the main route out, they decided to repaint the lines so the main road suddenly turns right into a tiny side road, with the intention that everyone who wants to go straight on (99% of people) has to stop and look because they don't have right of way anymore.
    The problem is that as there is hardly ever any traffic coming from the side road, a lot of people ignore the whole thing, and carry straight on - with the predictable result of quite a lot of near misses and the occasional direct hit whenever anyone is actually headed out of the side road.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    General Practice has changed a lot organisationally in recent years, with smaller practices amalgamating, with the rise of mega-practices. It is the directors of these 200+ Dr practices that are the ones that you see with the very big renumeration. They use salaried staff rather than partners, and often lots of locums. Quality of care is often an issue, particularly with many refusing face to face contacts.

    There are some very good GPs and it is a hard job to do well, but very patchy. I saw a middle aged diabetic last week with no blood tests for 4 years. That isn't covid, just bad medicine.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    TOPPING said:

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    Perhaps, but talking to people, there wouldn't be many. I know of several families who have oved surgery to the nearest village, and one who has somehow moved to one on St Neots, eight miles away ...

    Another story: I needed an urgent scan on my lungs. It is arranged and I go to Hinchinbrooke. A couple of days later I get a letter from the doctor saying the results are in. So I turn up with Mrs J, who is very worried, and the doctor doesn't know anything about it. I show him a letter, from the GP surgery, with his name, telling me to come in for the results. We wait, but they cannot find them. The result was that I had to take time off and go back to Hunchinbrooke for more scans...

    The surgery blamed Hinchinbrooke. But I doubt it: why did the GP surgery send me a letter saying they had the results, along with an appointment time?

    We have other stories, and I have heard worse from other people. Yet our previous GP in Romsey (Southampton, not Town), was superb: proactive, efficient, professional. And the one before that south of Cambridge was the same.
    I wonder what GP services will be put in place for Cambourne West.
    As far as I can tell, just an expansion to the existing surgery because of ' economies of scale'. Which will probably involve moving the library, or reducing it in size. :(

    http://www.cambourneparishcouncil.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/item-7-healthcare.pdf

    I have no idea if this is true, but a couple of people have said that the issue is that GP surgeries get paid not just by population, but by age as well. Since we have a very young population, they get less funding than if we we had more elderly people.

    Anyone know if that's correct?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052
    TOPPING said:

    I think this morning so far on PB has proved the point. No matter how amazing parts of the NHS undoubtedly are, overall there are far too many instances of appalling service and treatment.

    Worth noting that there are plenty of horror stories from other countries too. I've seen it from all over the world.
  • theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Same thing happened to me re disappearing from the NHS which is one reason for cutting the unvaccinated some slack – there must be lots like us waiting for a call which will never come.

    Sore throat – get some Chloraseptic spray. It's magic.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    Oh and another favourite story is the GP and I at her desk googling conditions because she had never heard of the potential condition, the symptoms of which I was presenting with.

    IMV: the NHS is brilliant if you have conditions it knows about and can categorise. You may have to wait for a new hip, but they'll get it done. They're great with most cancers and heart problems.

    They're terrible when it comes to conditions they cannot diagnose or categorise.

    I've no idea about mental health conditions, but I doubt it's overall good.
    Absolutely. If you are wheeled in to A&E then they are generally excellent.

    Anything as you say complicated or involving MDTs or cross department liaison or which requires further investigation beyond first glance they are too often dreadful.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052

    TOPPING said:

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    Perhaps, but talking to people, there wouldn't be many. I know of several families who have oved surgery to the nearest village, and one who has somehow moved to one on St Neots, eight miles away ...

    Another story: I needed an urgent scan on my lungs. It is arranged and I go to Hinchinbrooke. A couple of days later I get a letter from the doctor saying the results are in. So I turn up with Mrs J, who is very worried, and the doctor doesn't know anything about it. I show him a letter, from the GP surgery, with his name, telling me to come in for the results. We wait, but they cannot find them. The result was that I had to take time off and go back to Hunchinbrooke for more scans...

    The surgery blamed Hinchinbrooke. But I doubt it: why did the GP surgery send me a letter saying they had the results, along with an appointment time?

    We have other stories, and I have heard worse from other people. Yet our previous GP in Romsey (Southampton, not Town), was superb: proactive, efficient, professional. And the one before that south of Cambridge was the same.
    I wonder what GP services will be put in place for Cambourne West.
    As far as I can tell, just an expansion to the existing surgery because of ' economies of scale'. Which will probably involve moving the library, or reducing it in size. :(

    http://www.cambourneparishcouncil.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/item-7-healthcare.pdf

    I have no idea if this is true, but a couple of people have said that the issue is that GP surgeries get paid not just by population, but by age as well. Since we have a very young population, they get less funding than if we we had more elderly people.

    Anyone know if that's correct?
    GP funding is quite complex. There is percapita funding and there is age weighting, but also bonuses for meeting vaccination targets in children etc.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    Foxy said:

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    General Practice has changed a lot organisationally in recent years, with smaller practices amalgamating, with the rise of mega-practices. It is the directors of these 200+ Dr practices that are the ones that you see with the very big renumeration. They use salaried staff rather than partners, and often lots of locums. Quality of care is often an issue, particularly with many refusing face to face contacts.

    There are some very good GPs and it is a hard job to do well, but very patchy. I saw a middle aged diabetic last week with no blood tests for 4 years. That isn't covid, just bad medicine.
    Totally agree, although using locums isn't necessarily a bad thing. Fresh pair of eyes, and all that. If they keep the records properly, shouldn't be a problem.
    The use of salaried staff doesn't of itself give rise to problems either. In fact, it should improve the situation. Your, Dr F, are salaried, after all!
    AFAIK GP training doesn't include business management, and, to be fair, nor should they be expected to have good business management skills. As you say, ' it is a hard job to do well'!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    Perhaps, but talking to people, there wouldn't be many. I know of several families who have oved surgery to the nearest village, and one who has somehow moved to one on St Neots, eight miles away ...

    Another story: I needed an urgent scan on my lungs. It is arranged and I go to Hinchinbrooke. A couple of days later I get a letter from the doctor saying the results are in. So I turn up with Mrs J, who is very worried, and the doctor doesn't know anything about it. I show him a letter, from the GP surgery, with his name, telling me to come in for the results. We wait, but they cannot find them. The result was that I had to take time off and go back to Hunchinbrooke for more scans...

    The surgery blamed Hinchinbrooke. But I doubt it: why did the GP surgery send me a letter saying they had the results, along with an appointment time?

    We have other stories, and I have heard worse from other people. Yet our previous GP in Romsey (Southampton, not Town), was superb: proactive, efficient, professional. And the one before that south of Cambridge was the same.
    I wonder what GP services will be put in place for Cambourne West.
    As far as I can tell, just an expansion to the existing surgery because of ' economies of scale'. Which will probably involve moving the library, or reducing it in size. :(

    http://www.cambourneparishcouncil.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/item-7-healthcare.pdf

    I have no idea if this is true, but a couple of people have said that the issue is that GP surgeries get paid not just by population, but by age as well. Since we have a very young population, they get less funding than if we we had more elderly people.

    Anyone know if that's correct?
    GP funding is quite complex. There is percapita funding and there is age weighting, but also bonuses for meeting vaccination targets in children etc.
    Yes; those targets vary from year to year, too, depending on perceived local issues.
  • Morning folks

    FPT
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:
    You prefer the use of glyphosate? Sad.
    Attack of the Superweeds
    Herbicides are losing the war — and agriculture might never be the same again.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/18/magazine/superweeds-monsanto.html
    That is a stonkingly good article. Really detailed and informative. I do love the growing tendency of some papers (the NYT and the Guardian being the best examples) to go for the 'long' article looking at issues or events in real depth.

    Anyway, many thanks for posting Nigel.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,728
    Delta is different to the original virus- and changed how we can manage it.

    With original SARS-CoV-2, Pfizer & Moderna were over 90% effective at stopping infection (& stopping transmission). With delta, this has dropped to ~50%.
    https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1429525708565487616

    I tested positive for COVID this week, along with 9 of 12 fully vaxxed friends (among others), days after we attended an outdoor wedding (that required proof of vaccination) in 1 of the lowest-risk states in the country.
    https://twitter.com/drmeowza/status/1429221776270135296
  • theProle said:

    IanB2 said:

    theProle said:

    Fishing said:

    theProle said:



    HS2b was getting dangerously close to becoming more than hot air and some fancy CAD sketches at an overpriced consultancy.
    I think they would have canned HS2 were it not too far advanced when Covid came. Its logical to bin HS2b now, before the point of no return is reached.

    A tunnel to Ireland is at least 10 - 15 years away from that sort of point, in the mean time its mostly just PR events and a bung or two to their favourite consultancies for some feasibility studies. Why cancel it until its really obvious it's not going to happen? Also in ten years time it's pretty much guaranteed to be someone else's problem - much better to leave this particular unexploded bomb for someone else to defuse.

    Going back to HS2, I think the idea it's popular in the red wall is a London bubble myth.
    Notherners mostly drive, quite es small percentage use the train and even fewer regularly travel long distance by train.
    My town is 20 minutes from a station on the WCML, and its under 3hours to London. We've already suffered rampant house price inflation,especially of the larger/nicer houses as people figured they could move out of London and get back to the office a couple of days a week. This isn't a trend the locals wish to continue - rich southerners are better staying in the south, rather than turning more of the country into London commuter belt.

    Almost no one in the north will benefit from HS2, its just another tool to suck everything closer to London and most northerners despise London and all its works. So cancel away - we want to pay less tax, not have it wasted on white elephants. Or if they really must spend it, they could fix some of the more appalling bits of the road network in the north - that might actually be useful for us northerners.

    Northerners clearly don't despite ALL London's works as they are happy enough to take the gigantic subsidies those works fund.
    I think you're looking at the wrong end of the telescope on this one.
    London spaffs money at the north, mostly on stuff Northerners don't actually want (see also very expensive trainsets so the London politicians can do their "northern" photo ops in Manchester and be sure to be back home in London in time for tea). They then have the cheek to expect the north to be grateful for their largesse.

    Its also a circular game - London is full of consultants and lobbyists, tax payer funded pressure groups and the rest. They say they are investing £x in infrastructure in the North, then shovel half of the £x to their mates in London, before half the time cancelling the project anyway. This sort of activity is actually London subsidising London.

    Of course this utter misdirection of funds happens at every level of government which is why the state should be cut back to being as small as possible, with as much direct democracy as possible.

    A trivial example. My local council decided to paint 20mph signs on the road past my house. It makes zero difference to the speed of anyone driving down that street, and probably cost the equivalent of my entire council tax payment for the year. No rational person asked "would you like us to spend all your council tax on white paint" would say yes, but they did it anyway, at a time when they were also whinging and groaning about having no money because of government cuts.
    There are a fair few studies on the impact of such zones with moderate to strong evidence that they reduce casualty rates. Even though compliance - in terms of people generally driving at 20 mph - is poor, the findings suggest that people do reduce speed (with faster drivers reducing by more) and this improves safety. There is also evidence that sign-only schemes are the least effective and the more other stuff you do - painting the road, humps, traffic calming, chicanes, etc - the more effective the zone.

    In simple terms, a having a 20moh zone is a very effective way of limiting speeds to 30mph, whereas the pre-existing occasional 30 sign on a lamppost is not.

    So the likelihood is that your council tax money was well spent. And your neighbour’s contribution spent on something else.
    You'd do quite well to drive down my street at 30mph - we didn't have a traffic problem before the paint was applied.

    It's not the most egregious bit of "traffic calming" they've done on my estate - on the main route out, they decided to repaint the lines so the main road suddenly turns right into a tiny side road, with the intention that everyone who wants to go straight on (99% of people) has to stop and look because they don't have right of way anymore.
    The problem is that as there is hardly ever any traffic coming from the side road, a lot of people ignore the whole thing, and carry straight on - with the predictable result of quite a lot of near misses and the occasional direct hit whenever anyone is actually headed out of the side road.
    As a non-driver, or rather as a pedestrian, my issue with 20 mph zones on busy roads is they make it harder to cross the road. We cross in gaps in the traffic, and if on a busy road, speed is reduced to 20 mph then cars bunch up and there are no gaps. The same thing happens when traffic slows for rain. Of course, 20 mph collisions are less likely to be fatal but are we risking more of them?

    Regarding badly designed junctions, one recent phenomenon is dashcam footage being sent to traffic departments. Whether it helps, or the planners just blame stupid motorists, I could not say. Here is an example I saw yesterday.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MeToxTpoco
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,728
    The plan appears to be to delay the eastern leg of #hs2 indefinitely, rather than admitting it's been cancelled https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/now-looks-like-eastern-section-21105962
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    I think this morning so far on PB has proved the point. No matter how amazing parts of the NHS undoubtedly are, overall there are far too many instances of appalling service and treatment.

    Worth noting that there are plenty of horror stories from other countries too. I've seen it from all over the world.
    I don't doubt it.

    Makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to those in the UK.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 948

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Sore throat – get some Chloraseptic spray. It's magic.
    Nice idea, however I live alone, and it's now against the law for me to leave the house. I do have friends who will get me stuff, but I don't want to impose on them too much.
  • Foxy said:

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    General Practice has changed a lot organisationally in recent years, with smaller practices amalgamating, with the rise of mega-practices. It is the directors of these 200+ Dr practices that are the ones that you see with the very big renumeration. They use salaried staff rather than partners, and often lots of locums. Quality of care is often an issue, particularly with many refusing face to face contacts.

    There are some very good GPs and it is a hard job to do well, but very patchy. I saw a middle aged diabetic last week with no blood tests for 4 years. That isn't covid, just bad medicine.
    Totally agree, although using locums isn't necessarily a bad thing. Fresh pair of eyes, and all that. If they keep the records properly, shouldn't be a problem.
    The use of salaried staff doesn't of itself give rise to problems either. In fact, it should improve the situation. Your, Dr F, are salaried, after all!
    AFAIK GP training doesn't include business management, and, to be fair, nor should they be expected to have good business management skills. As you say, ' it is a hard job to do well'!
    Agree about the locums (loci?)

    After seeing my doctor 3 times over a year with a worrying skin condition and being told it was nothing, it was a locum who finally decided it should be seen by a specialist who confirmed it was a Basal Cell Carcinoma and also asked why I had taken so long to come and see her about it.

    That said, in terms of the actual running of the practice my GPs is the best I have ever used. They serve a large rural community and suffer terribly from pressures brought about by lack of space and a rapidly increasing population due to lots of new housing developments in the local villages. And yet they have adopted technology and tools such as 'Ask my GP' to make their systems both effective and quick. They use it as I envisage it should be used for rapid triage of cases so that they can concentrate on those that actually need a face to face appointment. This means that generally you get a face to face at the surgery on the same day and they have more time to actually talk to people and discuss general health to identify any possible issues that have not been raised.

    Compare this with my sister's surgery back in Newark where waiting times to see a GP are still measured in weeks and they will discuss nothing but the specific issue you booked to see them about.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    edited August 2021

    Foxy said:

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    General Practice has changed a lot organisationally in recent years, with smaller practices amalgamating, with the rise of mega-practices. It is the directors of these 200+ Dr practices that are the ones that you see with the very big renumeration. They use salaried staff rather than partners, and often lots of locums. Quality of care is often an issue, particularly with many refusing face to face contacts.

    There are some very good GPs and it is a hard job to do well, but very patchy. I saw a middle aged diabetic last week with no blood tests for 4 years. That isn't covid, just bad medicine.
    Totally agree, although using locums isn't necessarily a bad thing. Fresh pair of eyes, and all that. If they keep the records properly, shouldn't be a problem.
    The use of salaried staff doesn't of itself give rise to problems either. In fact, it should improve the situation. Your, Dr F, are salaried, after all!
    AFAIK GP training doesn't include business management, and, to be fair, nor should they be expected to have good business management skills. As you say, ' it is a hard job to do well'!
    Agree about the locums (loci?)

    After seeing my doctor 3 times over a year with a worrying skin condition and being told it was nothing, it was a locum who finally decided it should be seen by a specialist who confirmed it was a Basal Cell Carcinoma and also asked why I had taken so long to come and see her about it.

    That said, in terms of the actual running of the practice my GPs is the best I have ever used. They serve a large rural community and suffer terribly from pressures brought about by lack of space and a rapidly increasing population due to lots of new housing developments in the local villages. And yet they have adopted technology and tools such as 'Ask my GP' to make their systems both effective and quick. They use it as I envisage it should be used for rapid triage of cases so that they can concentrate on those that actually need a face to face appointment. This means that generally you get a face to face at the surgery on the same day and they have more time to actually talk to people and discuss general health to identify any possible issues that have not been raised.

    Compare this with my sister's surgery back in Newark where waiting times to see a GP are still measured in weeks and they will discuss nothing but the specific issue you booked to see them about.
    Went, quite a few years ago now, to see the GP with a set of symptoms and insisted I'd like further investigation. He reluctantly agreed; 'however, I can assure you, you haven't got cancer'
    Two months later I was in hospital being treated for cancer.

    Said GP has now left, to go into private practice.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Scott_xP said:

    The plan appears to be to delay the eastern leg of #hs2 indefinitely, rather than admitting it's been cancelled https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/now-looks-like-eastern-section-21105962

    Idiots.

    Levelling up my arse.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Foxy said:

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    General Practice has changed a lot organisationally in recent years, with smaller practices amalgamating, with the rise of mega-practices. It is the directors of these 200+ Dr practices that are the ones that you see with the very big renumeration. They use salaried staff rather than partners, and often lots of locums. Quality of care is often an issue, particularly with many refusing face to face contacts.

    There are some very good GPs and it is a hard job to do well, but very patchy. I saw a middle aged diabetic last week with no blood tests for 4 years. That isn't covid, just bad medicine.
    Totally agree, although using locums isn't necessarily a bad thing. Fresh pair of eyes, and all that. If they keep the records properly, shouldn't be a problem.
    The use of salaried staff doesn't of itself give rise to problems either. In fact, it should improve the situation. Your, Dr F, are salaried, after all!
    AFAIK GP training doesn't include business management, and, to be fair, nor should they be expected to have good business management skills. As you say, ' it is a hard job to do well'!
    Agree about the locums (loci?)

    After seeing my doctor 3 times over a year with a worrying skin condition and being told it was nothing, it was a locum who finally decided it should be seen by a specialist who confirmed it was a Basal Cell Carcinoma and also asked why I had taken so long to come and see her about it.

    That said, in terms of the actual running of the practice my GPs is the best I have ever used. They serve a large rural community and suffer terribly from pressures brought about by lack of space and a rapidly increasing population due to lots of new housing developments in the local villages. And yet they have adopted technology and tools such as 'Ask my GP' to make their systems both effective and quick. They use it as I envisage it should be used for rapid triage of cases so that they can concentrate on those that actually need a face to face appointment. This means that generally you get a face to face at the surgery on the same day and they have more time to actually talk to people and discuss general health to identify any possible issues that have not been raised.

    Compare this with my sister's surgery back in Newark where waiting times to see a GP are still measured in weeks and they will discuss nothing but the specific issue you booked to see them about.
    Really hope it gets cleared up soon and completely.

    I have an annual check at The Mole Clinic. The thought of a GP knowing a dimple from a blister from something more sinister and then being able to refer you on is laughable.

    Yours is another from the PB NHS shop of horrors anecdotes.
  • theProle said:

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Sore throat – get some Chloraseptic spray. It's magic.
    Nice idea, however I live alone, and it's now against the law for me to leave the house. I do have friends who will get me stuff, but I don't want to impose on them too much.
    Impose on your friends or impose on your local supermarket's delivery service.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    Perhaps, but talking to people, there wouldn't be many. I know of several families who have oved surgery to the nearest village, and one who has somehow moved to one on St Neots, eight miles away ...

    Another story: I needed an urgent scan on my lungs. It is arranged and I go to Hinchinbrooke. A couple of days later I get a letter from the doctor saying the results are in. So I turn up with Mrs J, who is very worried, and the doctor doesn't know anything about it. I show him a letter, from the GP surgery, with his name, telling me to come in for the results. We wait, but they cannot find them. The result was that I had to take time off and go back to Hunchinbrooke for more scans...

    The surgery blamed Hinchinbrooke. But I doubt it: why did the GP surgery send me a letter saying they had the results, along with an appointment time?

    We have other stories, and I have heard worse from other people. Yet our previous GP in Romsey (Southampton, not Town), was superb: proactive, efficient, professional. And the one before that south of Cambridge was the same.
    I wonder what GP services will be put in place for Cambourne West.
    As far as I can tell, just an expansion to the existing surgery because of ' economies of scale'. Which will probably involve moving the library, or reducing it in size. :(

    http://www.cambourneparishcouncil.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/item-7-healthcare.pdf

    I have no idea if this is true, but a couple of people have said that the issue is that GP surgeries get paid not just by population, but by age as well. Since we have a very young population, they get less funding than if we we had more elderly people.

    Anyone know if that's correct?
    GP funding is quite complex. There is percapita funding and there is age weighting, but also bonuses for meeting vaccination targets in children etc.
    Thanks for that. I've actually noticed the following in the document I linked to earlier:
    "
    Monkfield Medical Practice (MMP) had extra funding to start with because of the new town factor, this has now stopped. The Carr-Hill Formula is the main funding formula for medical practices and it takes account of average population: you get extra funding for older people living in the area.

    Cambourne’s age distribution doesn’t fit the classic bell shape. Under this formula MMP stood to lose half its funding. They wrote a bid for exceptional case funding, which was successful but they will still lose £100,000 of funding. However they have been told by the Primary Care Trust (PCT) that this is as good as we can get so the situation has changed as MMP is no longer trying to kick up a fuss about the funding, they are trying to make the best of it. They are looking at where they can make cutbacks internally, e.g. by sending patients text messages, rather than sending letters. Their system sends automated text reminders for appointments. There were 300 appointments in November that people didn’t attend, which represents a huge amount of money lost.

    Comment from audience: “you should charge the people who do not attend”.
    MMP: “unfortunately we can’t”.
    "
  • TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    General Practice has changed a lot organisationally in recent years, with smaller practices amalgamating, with the rise of mega-practices. It is the directors of these 200+ Dr practices that are the ones that you see with the very big renumeration. They use salaried staff rather than partners, and often lots of locums. Quality of care is often an issue, particularly with many refusing face to face contacts.

    There are some very good GPs and it is a hard job to do well, but very patchy. I saw a middle aged diabetic last week with no blood tests for 4 years. That isn't covid, just bad medicine.
    Totally agree, although using locums isn't necessarily a bad thing. Fresh pair of eyes, and all that. If they keep the records properly, shouldn't be a problem.
    The use of salaried staff doesn't of itself give rise to problems either. In fact, it should improve the situation. Your, Dr F, are salaried, after all!
    AFAIK GP training doesn't include business management, and, to be fair, nor should they be expected to have good business management skills. As you say, ' it is a hard job to do well'!
    Agree about the locums (loci?)

    After seeing my doctor 3 times over a year with a worrying skin condition and being told it was nothing, it was a locum who finally decided it should be seen by a specialist who confirmed it was a Basal Cell Carcinoma and also asked why I had taken so long to come and see her about it.

    That said, in terms of the actual running of the practice my GPs is the best I have ever used. They serve a large rural community and suffer terribly from pressures brought about by lack of space and a rapidly increasing population due to lots of new housing developments in the local villages. And yet they have adopted technology and tools such as 'Ask my GP' to make their systems both effective and quick. They use it as I envisage it should be used for rapid triage of cases so that they can concentrate on those that actually need a face to face appointment. This means that generally you get a face to face at the surgery on the same day and they have more time to actually talk to people and discuss general health to identify any possible issues that have not been raised.

    Compare this with my sister's surgery back in Newark where waiting times to see a GP are still measured in weeks and they will discuss nothing but the specific issue you booked to see them about.
    Really hope it gets cleared up soon and completely.

    I have an annual check at The Mole Clinic. The thought of a GP knowing a dimple from a blister from something more sinister and then being able to refer you on is laughable.

    Yours is another from the PB NHS shop of horrors anecdotes.
    You'd have thought there'd be a mobile phone app to analyse spots by now.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    People do go on about Joe Biden's age, but as I am older than he maybe I'm a bit sensitive about that. Sea Shanty Irish assures us that Biden has always been a trifle "meandery". In any case, although I cannot say I'm knowledgeable about the details of the withdrawal, I sympathize with the intent. Whatever: here's a recent thoughtful article about the topic by one of my favorite journalists.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/19/opinion/afghanistan-us-taliban.html
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,287
    On thread. Come 2024. Few in the US will be bothered about Afghanisyan unless terror is high on thrxagenda. There is a greater terror.. Trump.
  • Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    theProle said:

    So I'm single dosed with Pfizer, about 5 weeks in (after a major fight with the NHS who in their all-knowing wisdom had binned my medical records because I've failed miserably to be ill enough to see a doctor for years, thus couldn't book me a jab).

    Saturday I had a bit of a sore throat / headache. Sunday morning I still had them, plus a bit of a fever, and flu like aching joints. Spent most of Sunday in bed feeling grim. No lose of taste or smell, no cough, sneezed a couple of times but not persistently.
    Concluded it was probably manflu.

    Was chatting to my young lady (she's 165 miles away) and she insisted I took a LFT - came up strongly positive in seconds.

    Got a drive through PCR to go to this morning, but I'm pretty sure it will be positive. Feeling a bit better this morning - still got a terrible sore throat (getting a throat swab for the PCR may actually cause so much pain I won't be able to do it - the LFT was a nasal one), but no fever.

    Looks like I get 10 days isolation at home, which feels as if its probably going to be a bit silly - at the current rate of progress I think I'll be back to normal (and thus not infectious) in another couple of days.

    Re your first paragraph, people moving house, and therefore likely GP, but no-one being told, has been a problem has been a problem for the NHS for years. Especially in areas like East London with a lot of short-term rentals.
    The real NHS postcode lottery is the delivery of GP services. Our current GP practice is hideously poor. You get to see real differences in GPs when you move about the country, or even an area.

    As an example: the little 'un had some jabs at ?four? years old. One in each arm. The next morning, one had come up with a 50-p sized redness. It was not bothering him, but I told the teacher. I got a phone call at lunchtime from the school telling me that his arm was swollen; they had fetched the nurse from the adjacent village college who had said he needed to see a doctor immediately.

    I got his medical book and phoned the GP surgery. I told them a school nurse had said he needed to see a doctor, and they said they'd book him in the next week. They were adamant.

    I went to the school, and his entire arm was swollen and red, and he had a fever. I had two choices: to take him to A&E, or try the doctor first as it was much nearer. I did the latter, stood in the queue, and when I reached the front, they said I'd have to take the original appointment. So I took his shirt off in the queue and showed them his arm, and explained it was an injection done at their surgery.

    Five minutes later, I was in with a doctor. They called in the nurse who gave the injections, who could not remember which injection had gone into which arm.

    Fortunately he was okay after a couple of days, but we still don't know which injection he had the reaction to ...

    And this was one story of many. They really are utterly hopeless, yet there is not much chance of a change.
    At one time I was professionally concerned with GP services and standards, and have no trouble in believing your story. It's like the little girl, isn't it. When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad ......
    Not sure about the situation now, but training of receptionists, the front-line staff, the people who control access used to be 'inadequate. Too often it appeared to patients that the receptionists duty was to 'protect' the GP from patients.
    And record-keeping, especially in the days of hand-writing could be abysmal.

    IMHO the basic problem is the contractual system; GP's are usually (not invariably nowadays) small businesses, possibly single handed, maybe 2+ partners 'in contract' to provide services, perhaps with a practice manager, maybe not. And while some of those services are essential, some can be cherry-picked.

    You're quite right that if people don't move about, they can't compare; I'm prepared to bet (!) that if I went to the practice where you had your awful experience I could find a few patients who thought the place was wonderful.

    Perhaps, but talking to people, there wouldn't be many. I know of several families who have oved surgery to the nearest village, and one who has somehow moved to one on St Neots, eight miles away ...

    Another story: I needed an urgent scan on my lungs. It is arranged and I go to Hinchinbrooke. A couple of days later I get a letter from the doctor saying the results are in. So I turn up with Mrs J, who is very worried, and the doctor doesn't know anything about it. I show him a letter, from the GP surgery, with his name, telling me to come in for the results. We wait, but they cannot find them. The result was that I had to take time off and go back to Hunchinbrooke for more scans...

    The surgery blamed Hinchinbrooke. But I doubt it: why did the GP surgery send me a letter saying they had the results, along with an appointment time?

    We have other stories, and I have heard worse from other people. Yet our previous GP in Romsey (Southampton, not Town), was superb: proactive, efficient, professional. And the one before that south of Cambridge was the same.
    I wonder what GP services will be put in place for Cambourne West.
    As far as I can tell, just an expansion to the existing surgery because of ' economies of scale'. Which will probably involve moving the library, or reducing it in size. :(

    http://www.cambourneparishcouncil.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/item-7-healthcare.pdf

    I have no idea if this is true, but a couple of people have said that the issue is that GP surgeries get paid not just by population, but by age as well. Since we have a very young population, they get less funding than if we we had more elderly people.

    Anyone know if that's correct?
    GP funding is quite complex. There is percapita funding and there is age weighting, but also bonuses for meeting vaccination targets in children etc.
    Thanks for that. I've actually noticed the following in the document I linked to earlier:
    "
    Monkfield Medical Practice (MMP) had extra funding to start with because of the new town factor, this has now stopped. The Carr-Hill Formula is the main funding formula for medical practices and it takes account of average population: you get extra funding for older people living in the area.

    Cambourne’s age distribution doesn’t fit the classic bell shape. Under this formula MMP stood to lose half its funding. They wrote a bid for exceptional case funding, which was successful but they will still lose £100,000 of funding. However they have been told by the Primary Care Trust (PCT) that this is as good as we can get so the situation has changed as MMP is no longer trying to kick up a fuss about the funding, they are trying to make the best of it. They are looking at where they can make cutbacks internally, e.g. by sending patients text messages, rather than sending letters. Their system sends automated text reminders for appointments. There were 300 appointments in November that people didn’t attend, which represents a huge amount of money lost.

    Comment from audience: “you should charge the people who do not attend”.
    MMP: “unfortunately we can’t”.
    "
    Comment from audience: how is money lost? Isn't it more likely that someone has naively averaged fixed costs over time and decided a ten minute appointment costs £50 or whatever, forgetting that the fixed costs are, well, fixed, and they have to pay the doctor, receptionist and rates whether people turn up or not?
This discussion has been closed.