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The UK vaccination programme nearly 8 months after the first jab – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 4 in General
imageThe UK vaccination programme nearly 8 months after the first jab – politicalbetting.com

Our vaccine programme is on the whole going well, however despite falling case rates ( At least when I wrote this piece) the virus could well resurge in the autumn and winter.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,760
    edited August 4
    Update on my Olympic medal bets I felt very much in two minds about: The 538 forecast has dropped the US to 110 medals forecast, the first time they have been below both betting lines I took (and thus implying I may win with both bookies). That's including the double medal in the Mens' 200m.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,165
    Good header Pulpstar

    Yes agreed - we should get on with vaccinating 12 to 17 year olds - to reduce overall population exposure to infection as much as the direct benefits to the 12 to 17 year olds themselves.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,760
    On topic: I agree with Pulpstar. The risk to teenagers of the vaccine is even lower than the risk of COVID, and they also benefit from the pandemic ending sooner for their older family members/vulnerable friends.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,760
    Quincel said:

    Update on my Olympic medal bets I felt very much in two minds about: The 538 forecast has dropped the US to 110 medals forecast, the first time they have been below both betting lines I took (and thus implying I may win with both bookies). That's including the double medal in the Mens' 200m.

    On a separate Olympic note, which I didn't bet on: the 200m is another narrowly missed gold for America. China really are going to top the Gold/Silver/Bronze medal table aren't they?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,209
    edited August 4
    Fifth like the Scottish Liberal Democrats
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,486
    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Update on my Olympic medal bets I felt very much in two minds about: The 538 forecast has dropped the US to 110 medals forecast, the first time they have been below both betting lines I took (and thus implying I may win with both bookies). That's including the double medal in the Mens' 200m.

    On a separate Olympic note, which I didn't bet on: the 200m is another narrowly missed gold for America. China really are going to top the Gold/Silver/Bronze medal table aren't they?
    Indeed. US having a bit of a mare in these Games. Michael Johnson making the point many of their athletes don't seem to have prepared that well.

    Educated guess here but I think there is going to be some blowback in the US on this, if not politically then in the realms of public opinion. China comprehensively thrashing the US on Golds will be seen as an apt metaphor for the rise of China over the States. While they did it in Beijing, they don't have home advantage in these Games.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,209
    I know a child who got Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children (MIS-C). You do not want that disease, believe me.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,692
    I agree about vaccinating children. Incidentally, the Spanish fifth wave actually began after the end of school/university - end of term parties of various kinds - and has raged for the past couple of months although now showing signs of easing a little. I'm therefore not so sure that being at school triggered high case numbers here in Spain. It may be that the issue of in/out of school is something of a red herring.
  • This is one of the areas the government have to postal on if it happens.

    Postal on social media, postal on the internet, postal in the media, postal everywhere against the antivaxxers.

    It was no coincidence that the MMR hoax was focussed on vaccines for kids.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 88,970
    4 out of 5 people are in favour of offering the vaccine to 16 to 17 year olds

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1422881212008443917?s=20
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,557

    This is one of the areas the government have to postal on if it happens.

    Postal on social media, postal on the internet, postal in the media, postal everywhere against the antivaxxers.

    It was no coincidence that the MMR hoax was focussed on vaccines for kids.

    Postal by post?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 96,536
    edited August 4
    DougSeal said:

    This is one of the areas the government have to postal on if it happens.

    Postal on social media, postal on the internet, postal in the media, postal everywhere against the antivaxxers.

    It was no coincidence that the MMR hoax was focussed on vaccines for kids.

    Postal by post?
    Yup and like Michael Douglas in Falling Down.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 88,970
    edited August 4
    MrEd said:

    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Update on my Olympic medal bets I felt very much in two minds about: The 538 forecast has dropped the US to 110 medals forecast, the first time they have been below both betting lines I took (and thus implying I may win with both bookies). That's including the double medal in the Mens' 200m.

    On a separate Olympic note, which I didn't bet on: the 200m is another narrowly missed gold for America. China really are going to top the Gold/Silver/Bronze medal table aren't they?
    Indeed. US having a bit of a mare in these Games. Michael Johnson making the point many of their athletes don't seem to have prepared that well.

    Educated guess here but I think there is going to be some blowback in the US on this, if not politically then in the realms of public opinion. China comprehensively thrashing the US on Golds will be seen as an apt metaphor for the rise of China over the States. While they did it in Beijing, they don't have home advantage in these Games.
    China has 4 times the population of the US, in an even year China should always be top of the Olympics medal table. The US will just have to get used to the fact it is no longer the sole superpower, whether economically, militarily or indeed now in the sporting arena.

    There is no shame in that, on the basis of population the US should be 3rd, so even 2nd place is a relatively good performance
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,209
    MrEd said:

    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Update on my Olympic medal bets I felt very much in two minds about: The 538 forecast has dropped the US to 110 medals forecast, the first time they have been below both betting lines I took (and thus implying I may win with both bookies). That's including the double medal in the Mens' 200m.

    On a separate Olympic note, which I didn't bet on: the 200m is another narrowly missed gold for America. China really are going to top the Gold/Silver/Bronze medal table aren't they?
    Indeed. US having a bit of a mare in these Games. Michael Johnson making the point many of their athletes don't seem to have prepared that well.

    Educated guess here but I think there is going to be some blowback in the US on this, if not politically then in the realms of public opinion. China comprehensively thrashing the US on Golds will be seen as an apt metaphor for the rise of China over the States. While they did it in Beijing, they don't have home advantage in these Games.
    I think folk around here overestimate the effect of events on voting intentions and electoral behaviour. I think you’re doing it again here. Yes, some Americans will be a bit disappointed, but I seriously doubt it will be the wake up call. The true wake up call is Hong Kong, Taiwan and the Uighurs, and the world just dozed onwards.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 29,568

    Fifth like the Scottish Liberal Democrats

    Wait a goshdarn minute...


  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 67,957
    The odd thing is everyone I think assumes the JCVI simply recommends when the "doses are free" so to speak. But the report doesn't go into supply or prioritsation at all ?!?

    I'll be interested to see the updated report recommending rollout to 16/17 yr olds.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915
    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Update on my Olympic medal bets I felt very much in two minds about: The 538 forecast has dropped the US to 110 medals forecast, the first time they have been below both betting lines I took (and thus implying I may win with both bookies). That's including the double medal in the Mens' 200m.

    On a separate Olympic note, which I didn't bet on: the 200m is another narrowly missed gold for America. China really are going to top the Gold/Silver/Bronze medal table aren't they?
    They shall acquire all under heaven, as is their right.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,486

    MrEd said:

    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Update on my Olympic medal bets I felt very much in two minds about: The 538 forecast has dropped the US to 110 medals forecast, the first time they have been below both betting lines I took (and thus implying I may win with both bookies). That's including the double medal in the Mens' 200m.

    On a separate Olympic note, which I didn't bet on: the 200m is another narrowly missed gold for America. China really are going to top the Gold/Silver/Bronze medal table aren't they?
    Indeed. US having a bit of a mare in these Games. Michael Johnson making the point many of their athletes don't seem to have prepared that well.

    Educated guess here but I think there is going to be some blowback in the US on this, if not politically then in the realms of public opinion. China comprehensively thrashing the US on Golds will be seen as an apt metaphor for the rise of China over the States. While they did it in Beijing, they don't have home advantage in these Games.
    I think folk around here overestimate the effect of events on voting intentions and electoral behaviour. I think you’re doing it again here. Yes, some Americans will be a bit disappointed, but I seriously doubt it will be the wake up call. The true wake up call is Hong Kong, Taiwan and the Uighurs, and the world just dozed onwards.
    Rationally, I'd agree with you, HK et al should be the true wake up call. In terms of grabbing the public attention, the US of A always sees itself as top in sports and no one else close. I'm not saying it will influence voting behaviour but I think it will gain more public attention from certain quarters.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,720
    felix said:

    I agree about vaccinating children. Incidentally, the Spanish fifth wave actually began after the end of school/university - end of term parties of various kinds - and has raged for the past couple of months although now showing signs of easing a little. I'm therefore not so sure that being at school triggered high case numbers here in Spain. It may be that the issue of in/out of school is something of a red herring.

    The Spanish also have some of the biggest, busiest nightclubs in the world, and young people have been traveling from all over the country to go to super spreader events, which is a bit different to most other European countries.

    Ultimately, though, Delta is so infectious when introduced to a completely unprotected community, that it burns very hot, but runs out of hosts pretty quickly.

    The case numbers - would not plummeting - are now on their way back down in Spain, and one would hope that will continue as the summer progresses. By the beginning of September, Spain should be in a pretty good position as far as protection goes.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,486
    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Update on my Olympic medal bets I felt very much in two minds about: The 538 forecast has dropped the US to 110 medals forecast, the first time they have been below both betting lines I took (and thus implying I may win with both bookies). That's including the double medal in the Mens' 200m.

    On a separate Olympic note, which I didn't bet on: the 200m is another narrowly missed gold for America. China really are going to top the Gold/Silver/Bronze medal table aren't they?
    Indeed. US having a bit of a mare in these Games. Michael Johnson making the point many of their athletes don't seem to have prepared that well.

    Educated guess here but I think there is going to be some blowback in the US on this, if not politically then in the realms of public opinion. China comprehensively thrashing the US on Golds will be seen as an apt metaphor for the rise of China over the States. While they did it in Beijing, they don't have home advantage in these Games.
    China has 4 times the population of the US, in an even year China should always be top of the Olympics medal table. The US will just have to get used to the fact it is no longer the sole superpower, whether economically, militarily or indeed now in the sporting arena.

    There is no shame in that, on the basis of population the US should be 3rd, so even 2nd place is a relatively good performance
    Although India is so bobbins it is unreal
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,720
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Update on my Olympic medal bets I felt very much in two minds about: The 538 forecast has dropped the US to 110 medals forecast, the first time they have been below both betting lines I took (and thus implying I may win with both bookies). That's including the double medal in the Mens' 200m.

    On a separate Olympic note, which I didn't bet on: the 200m is another narrowly missed gold for America. China really are going to top the Gold/Silver/Bronze medal table aren't they?
    Indeed. US having a bit of a mare in these Games. Michael Johnson making the point many of their athletes don't seem to have prepared that well.

    Educated guess here but I think there is going to be some blowback in the US on this, if not politically then in the realms of public opinion. China comprehensively thrashing the US on Golds will be seen as an apt metaphor for the rise of China over the States. While they did it in Beijing, they don't have home advantage in these Games.
    I think folk around here overestimate the effect of events on voting intentions and electoral behaviour. I think you’re doing it again here. Yes, some Americans will be a bit disappointed, but I seriously doubt it will be the wake up call. The true wake up call is Hong Kong, Taiwan and the Uighurs, and the world just dozed onwards.
    Rationally, I'd agree with you, HK et al should be the true wake up call. In terms of grabbing the public attention, the US of A always sees itself as top in sports and no one else close. I'm not saying it will influence voting behaviour but I think it will gain more public attention from certain quarters.
    Maybe it’s because the US isn’t doing well, and maybe it’s due to time zones, or the death of broadcast TV, but I’m barely seeing coverage of the Olympic Games here.

    Ted Lasso is much more talked about than the performance of Team USA.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,209

    Fifth like the Scottish Liberal Democrats

    Wait a goshdarn minute...

    SLD renaissance nr. 7,933.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,720
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Update on my Olympic medal bets I felt very much in two minds about: The 538 forecast has dropped the US to 110 medals forecast, the first time they have been below both betting lines I took (and thus implying I may win with both bookies). That's including the double medal in the Mens' 200m.

    On a separate Olympic note, which I didn't bet on: the 200m is another narrowly missed gold for America. China really are going to top the Gold/Silver/Bronze medal table aren't they?
    Indeed. US having a bit of a mare in these Games. Michael Johnson making the point many of their athletes don't seem to have prepared that well.

    Educated guess here but I think there is going to be some blowback in the US on this, if not politically then in the realms of public opinion. China comprehensively thrashing the US on Golds will be seen as an apt metaphor for the rise of China over the States. While they did it in Beijing, they don't have home advantage in these Games.
    I think folk around here overestimate the effect of events on voting intentions and electoral behaviour. I think you’re doing it again here. Yes, some Americans will be a bit disappointed, but I seriously doubt it will be the wake up call. The true wake up call is Hong Kong, Taiwan and the Uighurs, and the world just dozed onwards.
    Rationally, I'd agree with you, HK et al should be the true wake up call. In terms of grabbing the public attention, the US of A always sees itself as top in sports and no one else close. I'm not saying it will influence voting behaviour but I think it will gain more public attention from certain quarters.
    Maybe it’s because the US isn’t doing well, and maybe it’s due to time zones, or the death of broadcast TV, but I’m barely seeing coverage of the Olympic Games here.

    Ted Lasso is much more talked about than the performance of Team USA.
    That is not quite true: the women’s soccer loss to Canada is considered something quite extraordinary.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,127
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Update on my Olympic medal bets I felt very much in two minds about: The 538 forecast has dropped the US to 110 medals forecast, the first time they have been below both betting lines I took (and thus implying I may win with both bookies). That's including the double medal in the Mens' 200m.

    On a separate Olympic note, which I didn't bet on: the 200m is another narrowly missed gold for America. China really are going to top the Gold/Silver/Bronze medal table aren't they?
    Indeed. US having a bit of a mare in these Games. Michael Johnson making the point many of their athletes don't seem to have prepared that well.

    Educated guess here but I think there is going to be some blowback in the US on this, if not politically then in the realms of public opinion. China comprehensively thrashing the US on Golds will be seen as an apt metaphor for the rise of China over the States. While they did it in Beijing, they don't have home advantage in these Games.
    I think folk around here overestimate the effect of events on voting intentions and electoral behaviour. I think you’re doing it again here. Yes, some Americans will be a bit disappointed, but I seriously doubt it will be the wake up call. The true wake up call is Hong Kong, Taiwan and the Uighurs, and the world just dozed onwards.
    Rationally, I'd agree with you, HK et al should be the true wake up call. In terms of grabbing the public attention, the US of A always sees itself as top in sports and no one else close. I'm not saying it will influence voting behaviour but I think it will gain more public attention from certain quarters.
    Maybe it’s because the US isn’t doing well, and maybe it’s due to time zones, or the death of broadcast TV, but I’m barely seeing coverage of the Olympic Games here.

    Ted Lasso is much more talked about than the performance of Team USA.
    NBC getting a kickin' for their coverage:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/aug/02/nbc-olympic-coverage-peacock-replays-primetime
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,720

    Fifth like the Scottish Liberal Democrats

    Wait a goshdarn minute...

    SLD renaissance nr. 7,933.
    You think they’ll get that many votes in Scotland next time?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,720
    RobD said:

    Quincel said:

    Sturgeon on brink of cooperation deal with Scottish Greens
    Exclusive: agreement would cement a pro-independence majority at Holyrood and may give Greens ministerial seats

    The formal deal, which will stop short of a full coalition of the kind agreed by the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats under David Cameron and Nick Clegg in 2010, would give the Scottish National party and Scottish Greens a clear majority of seats at Holyrood.

    It would allow the first minister to present a strong pro-climate agenda in advance of the Cop26 climate talks in Glasgow this November, and outvote anti-independence parties in Holyrood.

    It would be the first time after 14 years in power the SNP had signed a formal deal with another party

    The deal will present Scottish Labour, currently Holyrood’s third-largest party, with a significant political challenge. It is likely to give Sturgeon a resilient centre-left majority and removes her need to seek deals with Labour to get policies through the devolved parliament.

    the Conservatives are taking a softer line on the potential for a fresh independence referendum

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/03/sturgeon-on-brink-cooperation-deal-scottish-greens

    Forgive my pedantry, but if there is a formal deal which gives Greens ministerial seats then in what way does it stop short of full coalition?
    Very good question, which the article fails to answer.

    Any agreement which gives both parties seats in Cabinet, a shared programme of legislation and an agreed Budget is a coalition. End of.
    It would be a sensible assumption that the Green Party will get the Environment brief. If they are in government but not in coalition then what? Are the SNP handing the entire environment brief and policy over to the Green Party to run independently?

    Either way, Scotland elected 73 explicitly pro-independence MSPs giving a comfortable majority. Despite HYUFD's endless whining that it isn't a majority, it is. I will be greatly entertained to watch nippy bleat on about a referendum without actually producing one, but that is the "settled will of the Scottish people" or whatever the Tories latest phrase is.
    Good morning

    I agree with you about an indyref2 mandate but I genuinely believe it will not happen this side of the next GE

    @HYUFD make lots of antagonistic comments on the subject but in truth we are little over 2 and a half years from GE 24 believe it or not and that is not long, especially with covid still an issue

    Furthermore and notwithstanding the gung-ho nature of the Nationalists they have not even started to provide an answer to the big issues including

    Currency
    Hard border
    Pensions
    The timing of re-admittance to the EU
    Investment decision deferred due to unknowns and uncertainty


    (to name a few)


    Additionally, there has been a drift away by the Scots themselves to even holding indyref2, let alone voting for it, that it seems to me that it is unlikely to happen anytime soon
    They are all mouth and no trousers, but they *are* the 4 times elected government with their biggest ever vote this time on the biggest ever turnout.

    On the issues you raise they need to say some fairly simple things.
    Currency: will maintain the existing sterling currency union until admitted to the Euro
    Border: the same solution as GB eventually reaches with the EU will apply (so not really a Scotland-specific problem)
    Pensions: a positive migration policy to have sufficient workers to pay them
    EU timing - apply for membership on morning 1 of independence
    etc

    They won't. There seems to be a fear that if they go into detail people may start ignoring heart and feel and instead start making considered judgements...
    They should come up with answers. Answers are entirely possible, plenty of countries have become independent before.

    Currency your answer doesn't work, since there's literally no such thing as "the existing sterling currency union".

    Sterling is a currency for the unitary state of the United Kingdom, ultimately controlled by the Bank of England, Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Westminster Parliament. The Euro has a collegiate union decision making process because it is a currency union, sterling does not.
    Pedant mode, but there is a Sterling currency union for the overseas territories. The UK is a part of that, but Scotland is not in its own right.
    Were Scotland to become independent, there is exactly one currency option. They would create the Groat, and would peg it at 1:1 with the Pound Sterling for at least the first three years. After that, they would either join the Euro, or they would let it float, or they would simply follow the Danish route of a permanent peg to their near neighbor.

    Of course, such a policy would require a great deal of fiscal rectitude, to convince the markets that the Groat was a stable currency. But this system worked for the Estonians (and others), and I’m sure it could work for Scotland.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,209
    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Update on my Olympic medal bets I felt very much in two minds about: The 538 forecast has dropped the US to 110 medals forecast, the first time they have been below both betting lines I took (and thus implying I may win with both bookies). That's including the double medal in the Mens' 200m.

    On a separate Olympic note, which I didn't bet on: the 200m is another narrowly missed gold for America. China really are going to top the Gold/Silver/Bronze medal table aren't they?
    Indeed. US having a bit of a mare in these Games. Michael Johnson making the point many of their athletes don't seem to have prepared that well.

    Educated guess here but I think there is going to be some blowback in the US on this, if not politically then in the realms of public opinion. China comprehensively thrashing the US on Golds will be seen as an apt metaphor for the rise of China over the States. While they did it in Beijing, they don't have home advantage in these Games.
    China has 4 times the population of the US, in an even year China should always be top of the Olympics medal table. The US will just have to get used to the fact it is no longer the sole superpower, whether economically, militarily or indeed now in the sporting arena.

    There is no shame in that, on the basis of population the US should be 3rd, so even 2nd place is a relatively good performance
    Although India is so bobbins it is unreal
    Indonesia, Pakistan, Brazil, Nigeria and Bangladesh also seriously underperform, on a per capita basis.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,226
    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,760
    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,127
    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Computer gaming would be in it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 29,568

    Fifth like the Scottish Liberal Democrats

    Wait a goshdarn minute...
    SLD renaissance nr. 7,933.
    Spectator clutching at whatever straw they think will stop the Natz nr. 7,932



  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,209
    rcs1000 said:

    Fifth like the Scottish Liberal Democrats

    Wait a goshdarn minute...

    SLD renaissance nr. 7,933.
    You think they’ll get that many votes in Scotland next time?
    They got 137,152 votes in May, so dropping below 10,000 seems unlikely. Not in one go anyway.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 3,833
    On topic, the JCVI position on vaccinating 12-17 year olds seems odd, in the face of decisions by other bodies, worldwide. I think there must be some on the committee who strongly believe that we shouldn't increase the risk to the teenagers in order to reduce the risk to others. In other words narrowly considering only the risks to the individual, not to society as a whole. I do think that eventually we will vaccinate down to 12, possibly when the schools are back, but it seems mystifying to the outside observer that we are shooting ourselves in the foot in trying to reach herd immunity without including a large chunk of the population. Indeed it may not even be possible as Delta is so infectious.
    As frustrating as this is for many, we should remember that this is a committee of experts, just as the MHRA is, and it is possible to reach different conclusions from the same data, especially when the risks all around are so low.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 4,615
    edited August 4
    Thanks to Pulpstar for going through the JCVI report and writing a thread header on it. You end with:

    "Hopefully when the vaccine is authorised for 12+ (I think the “new evidence” will get them there eventually…” equivocation from the JCVI on this won’t effect takeup."

    I think they must have done some damage. One problem is that I'm not sure any new evidence will show us anything dramatically different to what we know already - that the vaccine is safe and effective for 12+, and provides a net benefit to their personal health, as well as a community benefit.

    But, maybe they do know better than me. Perhaps by delaying the decision they will create more confidence in it when it is made, by the appearance of being particularly cautious? I certainly hope so.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,209

    Fifth like the Scottish Liberal Democrats

    Wait a goshdarn minute...
    SLD renaissance nr. 7,933.
    Spectator clutching at whatever straw they think will stop the Natz nr. 7,932
    They’re a weird bunch at the Spectator. A lot of soiled nappies and frothing at the mouth.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,245
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Quincel said:

    Sturgeon on brink of cooperation deal with Scottish Greens
    Exclusive: agreement would cement a pro-independence majority at Holyrood and may give Greens ministerial seats

    The formal deal, which will stop short of a full coalition of the kind agreed by the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats under David Cameron and Nick Clegg in 2010, would give the Scottish National party and Scottish Greens a clear majority of seats at Holyrood.

    It would allow the first minister to present a strong pro-climate agenda in advance of the Cop26 climate talks in Glasgow this November, and outvote anti-independence parties in Holyrood.

    It would be the first time after 14 years in power the SNP had signed a formal deal with another party

    The deal will present Scottish Labour, currently Holyrood’s third-largest party, with a significant political challenge. It is likely to give Sturgeon a resilient centre-left majority and removes her need to seek deals with Labour to get policies through the devolved parliament.

    the Conservatives are taking a softer line on the potential for a fresh independence referendum

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/03/sturgeon-on-brink-cooperation-deal-scottish-greens

    Forgive my pedantry, but if there is a formal deal which gives Greens ministerial seats then in what way does it stop short of full coalition?
    Very good question, which the article fails to answer.

    Any agreement which gives both parties seats in Cabinet, a shared programme of legislation and an agreed Budget is a coalition. End of.
    It would be a sensible assumption that the Green Party will get the Environment brief. If they are in government but not in coalition then what? Are the SNP handing the entire environment brief and policy over to the Green Party to run independently?

    Either way, Scotland elected 73 explicitly pro-independence MSPs giving a comfortable majority. Despite HYUFD's endless whining that it isn't a majority, it is. I will be greatly entertained to watch nippy bleat on about a referendum without actually producing one, but that is the "settled will of the Scottish people" or whatever the Tories latest phrase is.
    Good morning

    I agree with you about an indyref2 mandate but I genuinely believe it will not happen this side of the next GE

    @HYUFD make lots of antagonistic comments on the subject but in truth we are little over 2 and a half years from GE 24 believe it or not and that is not long, especially with covid still an issue

    Furthermore and notwithstanding the gung-ho nature of the Nationalists they have not even started to provide an answer to the big issues including

    Currency
    Hard border
    Pensions
    The timing of re-admittance to the EU
    Investment decision deferred due to unknowns and uncertainty


    (to name a few)


    Additionally, there has been a drift away by the Scots themselves to even holding indyref2, let alone voting for it, that it seems to me that it is unlikely to happen anytime soon
    They are all mouth and no trousers, but they *are* the 4 times elected government with their biggest ever vote this time on the biggest ever turnout.

    On the issues you raise they need to say some fairly simple things.
    Currency: will maintain the existing sterling currency union until admitted to the Euro
    Border: the same solution as GB eventually reaches with the EU will apply (so not really a Scotland-specific problem)
    Pensions: a positive migration policy to have sufficient workers to pay them
    EU timing - apply for membership on morning 1 of independence
    etc

    They won't. There seems to be a fear that if they go into detail people may start ignoring heart and feel and instead start making considered judgements...
    They should come up with answers. Answers are entirely possible, plenty of countries have become independent before.

    Currency your answer doesn't work, since there's literally no such thing as "the existing sterling currency union".

    Sterling is a currency for the unitary state of the United Kingdom, ultimately controlled by the Bank of England, Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Westminster Parliament. The Euro has a collegiate union decision making process because it is a currency union, sterling does not.
    Pedant mode, but there is a Sterling currency union for the overseas territories. The UK is a part of that, but Scotland is not in its own right.
    Were Scotland to become independent, there is exactly one currency option. They would create the Groat, and would peg it at 1:1 with the Pound Sterling for at least the first three years. After that, they would either join the Euro, or they would let it float, or they would simply follow the Danish route of a permanent peg to their near neighbor.

    Of course, such a policy would require a great deal of fiscal rectitude, to convince the markets that the Groat was a stable currency. But this system worked for the Estonians (and others), and I’m sure it could work for Scotland.
    The problem is (he says, ducking for cover) is that structural government spending is higher. The “fiscal rectitude” of which you speak will require tax rises and austerity on a level not seen in many years. Which will likely lead to a bumpy landing
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,226
    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Not exactly the most compelling viewing, though.
    Each discipline needs both utility and crowd appeal.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 11,469
    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Reminds me of this:

    https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2385:_Final_Exam
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,446
    edited August 4
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Computer gaming would be in it.
    Nah! The new pentathlon: intelligence, logistics, unified battlefield command, drone targeting, and hacking (both for intelligence, and service denial).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 29,568

    Fifth like the Scottish Liberal Democrats

    Wait a goshdarn minute...
    SLD renaissance nr. 7,933.
    Spectator clutching at whatever straw they think will stop the Natz nr. 7,932
    They’re a weird bunch at the Spectator. A lot of soiled nappies and frothing at the mouth.
    Yep, that recent piece on the Speccie's influence on uk politics which I annoyingly can't find a link to was spot on. To paraphrase, some good writers but none with a genuine political idea or particle of nous between their ears.
  • Wow.

    Tottenham Hotspur have lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT after footage emerged of a caller to the station claiming Daniel Levy wanted big money for Harry Kane because he was Jewish.

    The episode provoked outrage, with presenters Perry Groves and Jordan Jarrett Bryan accused online of failing immediately to challenge the contributor or apologise for his comments.

    “Levy, he’s a Jew. He’s not going to let him go for nothing, is he?” said the caller when asked by Jarrett Bryan if Spurs should hold out for the fee England captain Kane was worth.

    A clip of the station’s live YouTube stream posted online showed Groves, the former Arsenal star, display visible shock at the outburst, while Jarrett Bryan also appeared to disapprove.

    But neither made any immediate comment about it, with Jarrett Bryan seeking to move the conversation on.

    Spurs confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they had lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT over the incident from Tuesday night’s edition of ‘The Sports Bar’ and were awaiting a response from the station.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/08/04/spurs-lodge-complaint-talksport-presenters-fail-call-antisemitic/
  • eekeek Posts: 14,809
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Quincel said:

    Sturgeon on brink of cooperation deal with Scottish Greens
    Exclusive: agreement would cement a pro-independence majority at Holyrood and may give Greens ministerial seats

    The formal deal, which will stop short of a full coalition of the kind agreed by the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats under David Cameron and Nick Clegg in 2010, would give the Scottish National party and Scottish Greens a clear majority of seats at Holyrood.

    It would allow the first minister to present a strong pro-climate agenda in advance of the Cop26 climate talks in Glasgow this November, and outvote anti-independence parties in Holyrood.

    It would be the first time after 14 years in power the SNP had signed a formal deal with another party

    The deal will present Scottish Labour, currently Holyrood’s third-largest party, with a significant political challenge. It is likely to give Sturgeon a resilient centre-left majority and removes her need to seek deals with Labour to get policies through the devolved parliament.

    the Conservatives are taking a softer line on the potential for a fresh independence referendum

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/03/sturgeon-on-brink-cooperation-deal-scottish-greens

    Forgive my pedantry, but if there is a formal deal which gives Greens ministerial seats then in what way does it stop short of full coalition?
    Very good question, which the article fails to answer.

    Any agreement which gives both parties seats in Cabinet, a shared programme of legislation and an agreed Budget is a coalition. End of.
    It would be a sensible assumption that the Green Party will get the Environment brief. If they are in government but not in coalition then what? Are the SNP handing the entire environment brief and policy over to the Green Party to run independently?

    Either way, Scotland elected 73 explicitly pro-independence MSPs giving a comfortable majority. Despite HYUFD's endless whining that it isn't a majority, it is. I will be greatly entertained to watch nippy bleat on about a referendum without actually producing one, but that is the "settled will of the Scottish people" or whatever the Tories latest phrase is.
    Good morning

    I agree with you about an indyref2 mandate but I genuinely believe it will not happen this side of the next GE

    @HYUFD make lots of antagonistic comments on the subject but in truth we are little over 2 and a half years from GE 24 believe it or not and that is not long, especially with covid still an issue

    Furthermore and notwithstanding the gung-ho nature of the Nationalists they have not even started to provide an answer to the big issues including

    Currency
    Hard border
    Pensions
    The timing of re-admittance to the EU
    Investment decision deferred due to unknowns and uncertainty


    (to name a few)


    Additionally, there has been a drift away by the Scots themselves to even holding indyref2, let alone voting for it, that it seems to me that it is unlikely to happen anytime soon
    They are all mouth and no trousers, but they *are* the 4 times elected government with their biggest ever vote this time on the biggest ever turnout.

    On the issues you raise they need to say some fairly simple things.
    Currency: will maintain the existing sterling currency union until admitted to the Euro
    Border: the same solution as GB eventually reaches with the EU will apply (so not really a Scotland-specific problem)
    Pensions: a positive migration policy to have sufficient workers to pay them
    EU timing - apply for membership on morning 1 of independence
    etc

    They won't. There seems to be a fear that if they go into detail people may start ignoring heart and feel and instead start making considered judgements...
    They should come up with answers. Answers are entirely possible, plenty of countries have become independent before.

    Currency your answer doesn't work, since there's literally no such thing as "the existing sterling currency union".

    Sterling is a currency for the unitary state of the United Kingdom, ultimately controlled by the Bank of England, Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Westminster Parliament. The Euro has a collegiate union decision making process because it is a currency union, sterling does not.
    Pedant mode, but there is a Sterling currency union for the overseas territories. The UK is a part of that, but Scotland is not in its own right.
    Were Scotland to become independent, there is exactly one currency option. They would create the Groat, and would peg it at 1:1 with the Pound Sterling for at least the first three years. After that, they would either join the Euro, or they would let it float, or they would simply follow the Danish route of a permanent peg to their near neighbor.

    Of course, such a policy would require a great deal of fiscal rectitude, to convince the markets that the Groat was a stable currency. But this system worked for the Estonians (and others), and I’m sure it could work for Scotland.
    The problem is (he says, ducking for cover) is that structural government spending is higher. The “fiscal rectitude” of which you speak will require tax rises and austerity on a level not seen in many years. Which will likely lead to a bumpy landing
    That's what will make is so much fun to watch from a distance.

    The levels of austerity required will be way beyond anything the Scottish Government can prepare for.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,702

    On topic, the JCVI position on vaccinating 12-17 year olds seems odd, in the face of decisions by other bodies, worldwide. I think there must be some on the committee who strongly believe that we shouldn't increase the risk to the teenagers in order to reduce the risk to others. In other words narrowly considering only the risks to the individual, not to society as a whole. I do think that eventually we will vaccinate down to 12, possibly when the schools are back, but it seems mystifying to the outside observer that we are shooting ourselves in the foot in trying to reach herd immunity without including a large chunk of the population. Indeed it may not even be possible as Delta is so infectious.
    As frustrating as this is for many, we should remember that this is a committee of experts, just as the MHRA is, and it is possible to reach different conclusions from the same data, especially when the risks all around are so low.

    I think it may be a combination of things

    1) error bar sizes - the spread of estimates for safety and effects. Given the very low risks and low benefits, *guaranteeing* that benefit outweighs risk may require more data
    2) Questions about vaccinating for benefits to *others* - though as some have pointed out, we already do this for other vaccines.
    3) The benefit of vaccinating children vs using the vaccines overseas.
    4) If delta is infectious enough, vaccinating children down to 12 may not shift the R very much.
  • Savanta ComRes have finally published their last three VI polls.

    All I had to do was threaten then with a BPC complaint ask nicely.

    https://comresglobal.com/our-work/poll-archive/
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,446

    On topic, the JCVI position on vaccinating 12-17 year olds seems odd, in the face of decisions by other bodies, worldwide. I think there must be some on the committee who strongly believe that we shouldn't increase the risk to the teenagers in order to reduce the risk to others. In other words narrowly considering only the risks to the individual, not to society as a whole. I do think that eventually we will vaccinate down to 12, possibly when the schools are back, but it seems mystifying to the outside observer that we are shooting ourselves in the foot in trying to reach herd immunity without including a large chunk of the population. Indeed it may not even be possible as Delta is so infectious.
    As frustrating as this is for many, we should remember that this is a committee of experts, just as the MHRA is, and it is possible to reach different conclusions from the same data, especially when the risks all around are so low.

    I think it may be a combination of things

    1) error bar sizes - the spread of estimates for safety and effects. Given the very low risks and low benefits, *guaranteeing* that benefit outweighs risk may require more data
    2) Questions about vaccinating for benefits to *others* - though as some have pointed out, we already do this for other vaccines.
    3) The benefit of vaccinating children vs using the vaccines overseas.
    4) If delta is infectious enough, vaccinating children down to 12 may not shift the R very much.
    Although, on point 4, if Ro is now already 6+, it takes big increases of Ro to result in noticeable changes to the herd immunity %
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,127

    Wow.

    Tottenham Hotspur have lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT after footage emerged of a caller to the station claiming Daniel Levy wanted big money for Harry Kane because he was Jewish.

    The episode provoked outrage, with presenters Perry Groves and Jordan Jarrett Bryan accused online of failing immediately to challenge the contributor or apologise for his comments.

    “Levy, he’s a Jew. He’s not going to let him go for nothing, is he?” said the caller when asked by Jarrett Bryan if Spurs should hold out for the fee England captain Kane was worth.

    A clip of the station’s live YouTube stream posted online showed Groves, the former Arsenal star, display visible shock at the outburst, while Jarrett Bryan also appeared to disapprove.

    But neither made any immediate comment about it, with Jarrett Bryan seeking to move the conversation on.

    Spurs confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they had lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT over the incident from Tuesday night’s edition of ‘The Sports Bar’ and were awaiting a response from the station.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/08/04/spurs-lodge-complaint-talksport-presenters-fail-call-antisemitic/

    Interestingly that only went on You Tube:

    https://talksport.com/football/921497/talksport-response-offensive-remark-about-tottenham-chairman-daniel-levy/
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 2,455
    edited August 4
    Nigelb said:

    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Not exactly the most compelling viewing, though.
    Each discipline needs both utility and crowd appeal.
    Take a Mission Impossible style approach - the only available computer is located on an island, is powered by a treadmill-driven generator, guarded by swordspersons, and has fifteen partial keyboards located above fences at heights only accessible on horseback, with a final keyboard - the only one containing the enter key - suspended out of reach by a set of 5 steel cables that can only be severed with an accurate pistol shot.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,517
    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_pentathlon

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,702
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Not exactly the most compelling viewing, though.
    Each discipline needs both utility and crowd appeal.
    Take a Mission Impossible style approach - the only available computer is located on an island, is powered by a treadmill-driven generator, guarded by swordspersons, and has a fifteen partial keyboards located above fences at heights only accessible on horseback, with a final keyboard - the only one containing the enter key - suspended out of reach by a set of 5 steel cables that can only be severed with an accurate pistol shot.
    So - "Crystal Maze - the Olympic round"??
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 4,615
    edited August 4
    Nigelb said:

    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Not exactly the most compelling viewing, though.
    Each discipline needs both utility and crowd appeal.
    Drone Quidditch.

    Mortar bowls.

    Rally driving.

    Rib racing.

    Target shooting, but with moving targets and negative score targets that have to not be shot.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,226

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_pentathlon

    Good effort, but a bit 20thC.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,226

    Nigelb said:

    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Not exactly the most compelling viewing, though.
    Each discipline needs both utility and crowd appeal.
    Drone Quidditch.

    Mortar bowls.

    Rally driving.

    Rib racing.
    Add a tuk tuk event, and you might be onto something.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,226
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Not exactly the most compelling viewing, though.
    Each discipline needs both utility and crowd appeal.
    Take a Mission Impossible style approach - the only available computer is located on an island, is powered by a treadmill-driven generator, guarded by swordspersons, and has fifteen partial keyboards located above fences at heights only accessible on horseback, with a final keyboard - the only one containing the enter key - suspended out of reach by a set of 5 steel cables that can only be severed with an accurate pistol shot.
    Sounds like a bad Bond script.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,517
    I think you could do CQB drills as an additional event - accuracy vs the clock on a given range.
  • tlg86 said:

    Wow.

    Tottenham Hotspur have lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT after footage emerged of a caller to the station claiming Daniel Levy wanted big money for Harry Kane because he was Jewish.

    The episode provoked outrage, with presenters Perry Groves and Jordan Jarrett Bryan accused online of failing immediately to challenge the contributor or apologise for his comments.

    “Levy, he’s a Jew. He’s not going to let him go for nothing, is he?” said the caller when asked by Jarrett Bryan if Spurs should hold out for the fee England captain Kane was worth.

    A clip of the station’s live YouTube stream posted online showed Groves, the former Arsenal star, display visible shock at the outburst, while Jarrett Bryan also appeared to disapprove.

    But neither made any immediate comment about it, with Jarrett Bryan seeking to move the conversation on.

    Spurs confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they had lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT over the incident from Tuesday night’s edition of ‘The Sports Bar’ and were awaiting a response from the station.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/08/04/spurs-lodge-complaint-talksport-presenters-fail-call-antisemitic/

    Interestingly that only went on You Tube:

    https://talksport.com/football/921497/talksport-response-offensive-remark-about-tottenham-chairman-daniel-levy/
    Cheers, as a broadcaster of PL matches you really don't want to piss of a club, I think the PL will similarly enraged.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,071
    MrEd said:

    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Update on my Olympic medal bets I felt very much in two minds about: The 538 forecast has dropped the US to 110 medals forecast, the first time they have been below both betting lines I took (and thus implying I may win with both bookies). That's including the double medal in the Mens' 200m.

    On a separate Olympic note, which I didn't bet on: the 200m is another narrowly missed gold for America. China really are going to top the Gold/Silver/Bronze medal table aren't they?
    Indeed. US having a bit of a mare in these Games. Michael Johnson making the point many of their athletes don't seem to have prepared that well.

    Educated guess here but I think there is going to be some blowback in the US on this, if not politically then in the realms of public opinion. China comprehensively thrashing the US on Golds will be seen as an apt metaphor for the rise of China over the States. While they did it in Beijing, they don't have home advantage in these Games.
    I though USA won the most golds in 2016
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,517
    More seriously, timed removing the pink wafers from the biscuit packet before leaving in the officer's mess.
  • YoungTurkYoungTurk Posts: 158
    edited August 4
    malcolmg said:

    spudgfsh said:

    spudgfsh said:

    spudgfsh said:

    They are all mouth and no trousers, but they *are* the 4 times elected government with their biggest ever vote this time on the biggest ever turnout.

    On the issues you raise they need to say some fairly simple things.
    Currency: will maintain the existing sterling currency union until admitted to the Euro
    Border: the same solution as GB eventually reaches with the EU will apply (so not really a Scotland-specific problem)
    Pensions: a positive migration policy to have sufficient workers to pay them
    EU timing - apply for membership on morning 1 of independence
    etc

    They won't. There seems to be a fear that if they go into detail people may start ignoring heart and feel and instead start making considered judgements...

    on entry to the EU, Entry into the EU wouldn't be automatic and would take a number of years of negotiating and implementing. all other things would follow on from that delay. the SNP would also be forced to hold a referendum on EU membership which they'd not be certain to win (although it's highly likely). The EU might also say that Scotland needs to finish negotiating with rUK first before they can start negotiating with them.
    on the currency, they said that they'd keep sterling in the last indiref and the UK said no. That wouldn't change in indiref2. There's no saying that people would vote for joining the Euro and the SNP couldn't force it on the country
    on the border, even if Scotland joins the EU it will take a fair amount of time and a medium term position on the border would be required which the UK would be stupid to base the timing of anything on the entry of Scotland into the EU. A fixed and determined situation needs to be agreed initially.
    Pensions, it's not about the new liabilities which is the problems it is the share of existing liabilities which will be the problem. (plus the share of accumulated debt).
    I get all of that, I am just saying that none of it is the insurmountable "see, you can't go" barrier that is suggested.

    EU membership? They are well practised at adding new countries, and in this case they would be reincorporating a territory. Easy enough to show alignment as Scotland is already aligned, and even as a UK nation it won't become particularly unaligned in the next few years.

    On the currency the situation has changed from 2014. A 2023 (?) question where "independence means the EU and the Euro" is different to 2014 where EU membership wasn't part of the equation. It doesn't matter what the position was back then or what people thought, things have changed.

    I think you are trying to complicate the border issue. Scotland will become an EU member state. By the time independence happens GB would already have a settled operating model for its EU border. Whatever we eventually end up doing with France is what you would do with Scotland, and as GB doesn't recognise the EU as anything other than a 3rd country it hardly matters if Scotland is an actual EU member or just an ascension state.
    The border issue is more complex than you think. I get the impression from the SNP that they's want the equivalent frictionless border that currently exists. that's not going to happen, and I suspect that it'll be a long time before the UK has a settled border policy with the EU and it'll be nothing like what existed before. There may be some improvements but nothing major and not until Labour win an election (which won't happen before Sind)

    Scotland are in the same position in relation to the UK as the UK was with the EU. They may think that they have the aces in the negotiations but if they want 'independence with all of the existing benefits' then they will not get it.

    When it comes to the currency, the referendum will only be for Independence future scottish elections would have to deal with joining the EU and the Euro.
    Remember the Tory Brexiteers plugging a digital border for Ireland? There's the solution for Scotland. Just need to invent one first...
    Technological solutions to the border issues are possible but there's nowhere in the world where it has been implemented. you're talking somewhere around 10-20 years before it becomes a possibility (assuming someone puts the cash into it).

    As I said, If the Scots think that the border post independence will be the same as it is now then they are mistaken.
    You halfwit , we don't give a crap about minutiae, that is all part of the negotiations, as RP said , Fatso gave away NI with his digital border , we will just extend across the water and though our land border, problem solved. Stop shaking like a big jelly and worrying about things you have no clue about.
    Do you think the "Stop peeing your pants, you clueless tosser" attitude will win many votes on the doorstep from middle-ground, potentially wavering Unionists who raise objections on practicalities in order to find out what the YesSNP's answer is? You know you deserve what you want, and that should be good enough for anybody, right? Other countries are already independent, and Scots aren't inferior. "Shove your currency question, you halfwit", etc. Like, really persuasive.

    But while I expect to have a good ol' laugh if Boris Johnson decides to assent to a rerun of the referendum, all of this foaming at the mouth stuff may be too easy to mock. Never mind 1690. Remember 2016 when the Brexiteers won.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 88,970
    edited August 4

    tlg86 said:

    Wow.

    Tottenham Hotspur have lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT after footage emerged of a caller to the station claiming Daniel Levy wanted big money for Harry Kane because he was Jewish.

    The episode provoked outrage, with presenters Perry Groves and Jordan Jarrett Bryan accused online of failing immediately to challenge the contributor or apologise for his comments.

    “Levy, he’s a Jew. He’s not going to let him go for nothing, is he?” said the caller when asked by Jarrett Bryan if Spurs should hold out for the fee England captain Kane was worth.

    A clip of the station’s live YouTube stream posted online showed Groves, the former Arsenal star, display visible shock at the outburst, while Jarrett Bryan also appeared to disapprove.

    But neither made any immediate comment about it, with Jarrett Bryan seeking to move the conversation on.

    Spurs confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they had lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT over the incident from Tuesday night’s edition of ‘The Sports Bar’ and were awaiting a response from the station.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/08/04/spurs-lodge-complaint-talksport-presenters-fail-call-antisemitic/

    Interestingly that only went on You Tube:

    https://talksport.com/football/921497/talksport-response-offensive-remark-about-tottenham-chairman-daniel-levy/
    Cheers, as a broadcaster of PL matches you really don't want to piss of a club, I think the PL will similarly enraged.
    Clearly was wrong but I heard far worse jokes/remarks of a similar vein in Palestine 2 years ago
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,702
    TimT said:

    On topic, the JCVI position on vaccinating 12-17 year olds seems odd, in the face of decisions by other bodies, worldwide. I think there must be some on the committee who strongly believe that we shouldn't increase the risk to the teenagers in order to reduce the risk to others. In other words narrowly considering only the risks to the individual, not to society as a whole. I do think that eventually we will vaccinate down to 12, possibly when the schools are back, but it seems mystifying to the outside observer that we are shooting ourselves in the foot in trying to reach herd immunity without including a large chunk of the population. Indeed it may not even be possible as Delta is so infectious.
    As frustrating as this is for many, we should remember that this is a committee of experts, just as the MHRA is, and it is possible to reach different conclusions from the same data, especially when the risks all around are so low.

    I think it may be a combination of things

    1) error bar sizes - the spread of estimates for safety and effects. Given the very low risks and low benefits, *guaranteeing* that benefit outweighs risk may require more data
    2) Questions about vaccinating for benefits to *others* - though as some have pointed out, we already do this for other vaccines.
    3) The benefit of vaccinating children vs using the vaccines overseas.
    4) If delta is infectious enough, vaccinating children down to 12 may not shift the R very much.
    Although, on point 4, if Ro is now already 6+, it takes big increases of Ro to result in noticeable changes to the herd immunity %
    It further occurs to me that the differing rates of infection of the various chide groups are an input in this -

    image

    to make it plainer -

    image

    Which strongly suggests to me that the 16-17 decision is about the 15-19 curve.....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,490
    Enjoying “Vaxxers” about the development of the Oxford AZ vaccine. In Phase I trials every single medical event has to be recorded. In the Oxford leg “bicycle accidents” cropped up from time to time, in Baltimore it was “gunshot wounds”….
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 15,832
    Boris Johnson's favourability rating among the public has fallen to its lowest level since October.

    Net Favourability ratings of leading politicians:

    Sunak: +10
    Javid: -6
    Starmer: -15
    Johnson: -20
    Patel: -39

    Source: (1,009 adults, 23-26 July) https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/favourability-towards-boris-johnson-falls-lowest-level-october https://twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/1422877020413964290/photo/1
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,071
    I notice a couple of Regions are showing a tiny uptick on their 7 day average specimen date graph. Today's case numbers will be hugely important.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915

    Fifth like the Scottish Liberal Democrats

    Wait a goshdarn minute...
    SLD renaissance nr. 7,933.
    Spectator clutching at whatever straw they think will stop the Natz nr. 7,932
    They’re a weird bunch at the Spectator. A lot of soiled nappies and frothing at the mouth.
    Better than frothing nappies and soiled mouths?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915
    Nigelb said:

    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Not exactly the most compelling viewing, though.
    Each discipline needs both utility and crowd appeal.
    I wouldn't have thought youd get crowds in to watch people play an online game but they do, so anything is possible.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 88,970
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson's favourability rating among the public has fallen to its lowest level since October.

    Net Favourability ratings of leading politicians:

    Sunak: +10
    Javid: -6
    Starmer: -15
    Johnson: -20
    Patel: -39

    Source: (1,009 adults, 23-26 July) https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/favourability-towards-boris-johnson-falls-lowest-level-october https://twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/1422877020413964290/photo/1

    On a net basis but in terms of favourability only Johnson has 27% favourable to 23% favourable for Starmer
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 8,877
    I can’t tell whether the SNP’s intention to promote a hard border with England as “job-making” is total genius or totally crackers.

    But, it *did* work for Brexiters.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,702
    Alistair said:

    I notice a couple of Regions are showing a tiny uptick on their 7 day average specimen date graph. Today's case numbers will be hugely important.

    Yes

    image
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,122
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Not exactly the most compelling viewing, though.
    Each discipline needs both utility and crowd appeal.
    Drone Quidditch.

    Mortar bowls.

    Rally driving.

    Rib racing.
    Add a tuk tuk event, and you might be onto something.
    Tuk tuk polo? (Oddly not as fun as it sounds)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 88,970

    I can’t tell whether the SNP’s intention to promote a hard border with England as “job-making” is total genius or totally crackers.

    But, it *did* work for Brexiters.

    Though only 43% of UK exports now go to the EU, 60% of Scottish exports go to the rest of the UK
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Not exactly the most compelling viewing, though.
    Each discipline needs both utility and crowd appeal.
    Take a Mission Impossible style approach - the only available computer is located on an island, is powered by a treadmill-driven generator, guarded by swordspersons, and has a fifteen partial keyboards located above fences at heights only accessible on horseback, with a final keyboard - the only one containing the enter key - suspended out of reach by a set of 5 steel cables that can only be severed with an accurate pistol shot.
    So - "Crystal Maze - the Olympic round"??
    Perfect - people can even obtain the medal instead of a crystal that way.

    This needs to happen.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,760
    edited August 4
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Not exactly the most compelling viewing, though.
    Each discipline needs both utility and crowd appeal.
    I wouldn't have thought youd get crowds in to watch people play an online game but they do, so anything is possible.
    You've never seen Serral take GSL vs The World for the second year in a row! Or watched Flash reach the ASL semifinals without dropping a map while playing Random!

    I've...outed myself, haven't I?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,162
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Wow.

    Tottenham Hotspur have lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT after footage emerged of a caller to the station claiming Daniel Levy wanted big money for Harry Kane because he was Jewish.

    The episode provoked outrage, with presenters Perry Groves and Jordan Jarrett Bryan accused online of failing immediately to challenge the contributor or apologise for his comments.

    “Levy, he’s a Jew. He’s not going to let him go for nothing, is he?” said the caller when asked by Jarrett Bryan if Spurs should hold out for the fee England captain Kane was worth.

    A clip of the station’s live YouTube stream posted online showed Groves, the former Arsenal star, display visible shock at the outburst, while Jarrett Bryan also appeared to disapprove.

    But neither made any immediate comment about it, with Jarrett Bryan seeking to move the conversation on.

    Spurs confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they had lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT over the incident from Tuesday night’s edition of ‘The Sports Bar’ and were awaiting a response from the station.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/08/04/spurs-lodge-complaint-talksport-presenters-fail-call-antisemitic/

    Interestingly that only went on You Tube:

    https://talksport.com/football/921497/talksport-response-offensive-remark-about-tottenham-chairman-daniel-levy/
    Cheers, as a broadcaster of PL matches you really don't want to piss of a club, I think the PL will similarly enraged.
    Clearly was wrong but I heard far worse jokes/remarks of a similar vein in Palestine 2 years ago
    Huh? You are Jeremy Corbyn and I claim my £5.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 8,877
    Arguments against Sindy are similar to the arguments against Brexit:

    Scotland would be smaller, weaker, and poorer.

    Tone deafness from EU / U.K. in response to local sentiment seems very similar, too.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,266

    TimT said:

    On topic, the JCVI position on vaccinating 12-17 year olds seems odd, in the face of decisions by other bodies, worldwide. I think there must be some on the committee who strongly believe that we shouldn't increase the risk to the teenagers in order to reduce the risk to others. In other words narrowly considering only the risks to the individual, not to society as a whole. I do think that eventually we will vaccinate down to 12, possibly when the schools are back, but it seems mystifying to the outside observer that we are shooting ourselves in the foot in trying to reach herd immunity without including a large chunk of the population. Indeed it may not even be possible as Delta is so infectious.
    As frustrating as this is for many, we should remember that this is a committee of experts, just as the MHRA is, and it is possible to reach different conclusions from the same data, especially when the risks all around are so low.

    I think it may be a combination of things

    1) error bar sizes - the spread of estimates for safety and effects. Given the very low risks and low benefits, *guaranteeing* that benefit outweighs risk may require more data
    2) Questions about vaccinating for benefits to *others* - though as some have pointed out, we already do this for other vaccines.
    3) The benefit of vaccinating children vs using the vaccines overseas.
    4) If delta is infectious enough, vaccinating children down to 12 may not shift the R very much.
    Although, on point 4, if Ro is now already 6+, it takes big increases of Ro to result in noticeable changes to the herd immunity %
    It further occurs to me that the differing rates of infection of the various chide groups are an input in this -

    image

    to make it plainer -

    image

    Which strongly suggests to me that the 16-17 decision is about the 15-19 curve.....
    Malmesbury I do love these age chart. a lot of revelling information in them, do you produce them your self?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 12,870
    edited August 4
    It looks like JCVI are directly contradicting MHRA on the risk/benefit calculation for 12-17 years olds. However they do appear to have the call on that decision. In other words an MHRA validation is a required endorsement, but not an instruction to proceed. That comes from JCVI
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 88,970

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Wow.

    Tottenham Hotspur have lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT after footage emerged of a caller to the station claiming Daniel Levy wanted big money for Harry Kane because he was Jewish.

    The episode provoked outrage, with presenters Perry Groves and Jordan Jarrett Bryan accused online of failing immediately to challenge the contributor or apologise for his comments.

    “Levy, he’s a Jew. He’s not going to let him go for nothing, is he?” said the caller when asked by Jarrett Bryan if Spurs should hold out for the fee England captain Kane was worth.

    A clip of the station’s live YouTube stream posted online showed Groves, the former Arsenal star, display visible shock at the outburst, while Jarrett Bryan also appeared to disapprove.

    But neither made any immediate comment about it, with Jarrett Bryan seeking to move the conversation on.

    Spurs confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they had lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT over the incident from Tuesday night’s edition of ‘The Sports Bar’ and were awaiting a response from the station.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/08/04/spurs-lodge-complaint-talksport-presenters-fail-call-antisemitic/

    Interestingly that only went on You Tube:

    https://talksport.com/football/921497/talksport-response-offensive-remark-about-tottenham-chairman-daniel-levy/
    Cheers, as a broadcaster of PL matches you really don't want to piss of a club, I think the PL will similarly enraged.
    Clearly was wrong but I heard far worse jokes/remarks of a similar vein in Palestine 2 years ago
    Huh? You are Jeremy Corbyn and I claim my £5.
    I went to Israel too but Jewish jokes amongst Palestinians are par for the course if you have been there
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915

    Arguments against Sindy are similar to the arguments against Brexit:

    Scotland would be smaller, weaker, and poorer.

    Tone deafness from EU / U.K. in response to local sentiment seems very similar, too.

    Perhaps so. Though will it be the same in that many say the response is tone deaf and fails, but right?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 30,984
    Alistair said:

    I notice a couple of Regions are showing a tiny uptick on their 7 day average specimen date graph. Today's case numbers will be hugely important.

    Yes, I think we're going to see R~1 pretty soon and then it will hover around that for a while until the second dose programme gets down to 18-30 year olds in a few weeks.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 2,455
    This looks like great fun.* Loving the actual pit in the track part way round. Slightly disappointed the trip wires weren't rigged to (at least special effects) explosives though.

    *Though I'd probably break a leg with some of those jumps down. Crash mats for me, I think...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915
    Quincel said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Not exactly the most compelling viewing, though.
    Each discipline needs both utility and crowd appeal.
    I wouldn't have thought youd get crowds in to watch people play an online game but they do, so anything is possible.
    You've never seen Serral take GSL vs The World for the second year in a row! Or watched Flash reach the ASL semifinals without dropping a map while playing Random!

    I've...outed myself, haven't I?
    Yep.

    I've watched many a let's play or live stream, but competitions? Pfff
  • eekeek Posts: 14,809
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Wow.

    Tottenham Hotspur have lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT after footage emerged of a caller to the station claiming Daniel Levy wanted big money for Harry Kane because he was Jewish.

    The episode provoked outrage, with presenters Perry Groves and Jordan Jarrett Bryan accused online of failing immediately to challenge the contributor or apologise for his comments.

    “Levy, he’s a Jew. He’s not going to let him go for nothing, is he?” said the caller when asked by Jarrett Bryan if Spurs should hold out for the fee England captain Kane was worth.

    A clip of the station’s live YouTube stream posted online showed Groves, the former Arsenal star, display visible shock at the outburst, while Jarrett Bryan also appeared to disapprove.

    But neither made any immediate comment about it, with Jarrett Bryan seeking to move the conversation on.

    Spurs confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they had lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT over the incident from Tuesday night’s edition of ‘The Sports Bar’ and were awaiting a response from the station.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/08/04/spurs-lodge-complaint-talksport-presenters-fail-call-antisemitic/

    Interestingly that only went on You Tube:

    https://talksport.com/football/921497/talksport-response-offensive-remark-about-tottenham-chairman-daniel-levy/
    Cheers, as a broadcaster of PL matches you really don't want to piss of a club, I think the PL will similarly enraged.
    Clearly was wrong but I heard far worse jokes/remarks of a similar vein in Palestine 2 years ago
    Is Palestine a nationwide broadcaster subject to UK law, UK public decency standards and Ofcom?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,702
    BigRich said:

    TimT said:

    On topic, the JCVI position on vaccinating 12-17 year olds seems odd, in the face of decisions by other bodies, worldwide. I think there must be some on the committee who strongly believe that we shouldn't increase the risk to the teenagers in order to reduce the risk to others. In other words narrowly considering only the risks to the individual, not to society as a whole. I do think that eventually we will vaccinate down to 12, possibly when the schools are back, but it seems mystifying to the outside observer that we are shooting ourselves in the foot in trying to reach herd immunity without including a large chunk of the population. Indeed it may not even be possible as Delta is so infectious.
    As frustrating as this is for many, we should remember that this is a committee of experts, just as the MHRA is, and it is possible to reach different conclusions from the same data, especially when the risks all around are so low.

    I think it may be a combination of things

    1) error bar sizes - the spread of estimates for safety and effects. Given the very low risks and low benefits, *guaranteeing* that benefit outweighs risk may require more data
    2) Questions about vaccinating for benefits to *others* - though as some have pointed out, we already do this for other vaccines.
    3) The benefit of vaccinating children vs using the vaccines overseas.
    4) If delta is infectious enough, vaccinating children down to 12 may not shift the R very much.
    Although, on point 4, if Ro is now already 6+, it takes big increases of Ro to result in noticeable changes to the herd immunity %
    It further occurs to me that the differing rates of infection of the various chide groups are an input in this -

    image

    to make it plainer -

    image

    Which strongly suggests to me that the 16-17 decision is about the 15-19 curve.....
    Malmesbury I do love these age chart. a lot of revelling information in them, do you produce them your self?
    All the charts I post I produce myself.

    The data comes from the PHE data feed, which gives you data in JSON form for a given request. For example

    https://api.coronavirus.data.gov.uk/v1/data?page=2&filters=areaType=ltla&structure={"date":"date","areaName":"areaName","areaType":"areaType","areaCode":"areaCode","cases":"newCasesBySpecimenDate","deaths":"newDeaths28DaysByDeathDate","pcrPercentage":"uniqueCasePositivityBySpecimenDateRollingSum"}

    This is what is used to provide the data for the dashboard - https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ - if you turn on the developer tools in your browser, you will see a whole bunch of such calls to get the data for various things in the dashboard.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,186
    No-one here has been doubting Joe Root, have they?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,162
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Wow.

    Tottenham Hotspur have lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT after footage emerged of a caller to the station claiming Daniel Levy wanted big money for Harry Kane because he was Jewish.

    The episode provoked outrage, with presenters Perry Groves and Jordan Jarrett Bryan accused online of failing immediately to challenge the contributor or apologise for his comments.

    “Levy, he’s a Jew. He’s not going to let him go for nothing, is he?” said the caller when asked by Jarrett Bryan if Spurs should hold out for the fee England captain Kane was worth.

    A clip of the station’s live YouTube stream posted online showed Groves, the former Arsenal star, display visible shock at the outburst, while Jarrett Bryan also appeared to disapprove.

    But neither made any immediate comment about it, with Jarrett Bryan seeking to move the conversation on.

    Spurs confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they had lodged a formal complaint with talkSPORT over the incident from Tuesday night’s edition of ‘The Sports Bar’ and were awaiting a response from the station.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/08/04/spurs-lodge-complaint-talksport-presenters-fail-call-antisemitic/

    Interestingly that only went on You Tube:

    https://talksport.com/football/921497/talksport-response-offensive-remark-about-tottenham-chairman-daniel-levy/
    Cheers, as a broadcaster of PL matches you really don't want to piss of a club, I think the PL will similarly enraged.
    Clearly was wrong but I heard far worse jokes/remarks of a similar vein in Palestine 2 years ago
    Huh? You are Jeremy Corbyn and I claim my £5.
    I went to Israel too but Jewish jokes amongst Palestinians are par for the course if you have been there
    No rowing back, I've tumbled your game, you'll be singing The Red Flag next!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,226
    Sandpit said:

    No-one here has been doubting Joe Root, have they?

    Yes, I expect an imminent collapse.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 67,957
    Going to go with 26,500 for today's case estimate.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,226
    edited August 4
    Omnium said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Not exactly the most compelling viewing, though.
    Each discipline needs both utility and crowd appeal.
    Drone Quidditch.

    Mortar bowls.

    Rally driving.

    Rib racing.
    Add a tuk tuk event, and you might be onto something.
    Tuk tuk polo? (Oddly not as fun as it sounds)
    Or bar crawl, with different rounds to be consumed at each stop.

    Militarily relevant, as EMP could take out GPS etc, and this would test navigational skills under stress conditions.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 3,833
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    No-one here has been doubting Joe Root, have they?

    Yes, I expect an imminent collapse.
    I always expect an imminent collapse. Sod Geoffrey's add 2 wickets, I add 5.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 29,066
    edited August 4
    John Rentoul makes a good point:

    "[In a hung parliament, the SNP] would find themselves with no influence in the making of a government. Because the SNP... have absolutely ruled out ever propping up a Conservative government in Westminster, they would have to allow a minority Labour government to take office. There need be no deals or coalitions.
    ...
    And Sturgeon would have surprisingly little leverage to force the [independence referendum] issue."


    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1422909157884182529
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 44,971
    Breaking

    Scientist announce from Downing Street all 16-17 year olds to be offered covid vaccine
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,186
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    No-one here has been doubting Joe Root, have they?

    Yes, I expect an imminent collapse.
    Damn you!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,226
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    No-one here has been doubting Joe Root, have they?

    Yes, I expect an imminent collapse.
    Damn you!
    Hey, it's you who did the damage - I was trying to mitigate your blunder.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 8,877
    HYUFD said:

    I can’t tell whether the SNP’s intention to promote a hard border with England as “job-making” is total genius or totally crackers.

    But, it *did* work for Brexiters.

    Though only 43% of UK exports now go to the EU, 60% of Scottish exports go to the rest of the UK
    U.K. goods exports to the single market are about 10% higher, ie approx 53%.

    Relevant in this context.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 8,877
    edited August 4

    John Rentoul makes a good point:

    "[In a hung parliament, the SNP] would find themselves with no influence in the making of a government. Because the SNP... have absolutely ruled out ever propping up a Conservative government in Westminster, they would have to allow a minority Labour government to take office. There need be no deals or coalitions.
    ...
    And Sturgeon would have surprisingly little leverage to force the [independence referendum] issue."


    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1422909157884182529

    Yes, and Keir needs to hammer this home.
    But he won’t, cos he’s very bad at politics.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 12,870
    edited August 4
    FF43 said:

    It looks like JCVI are directly contradicting MHRA on the risk/benefit calculation for 12-17 years olds. However they do appear to have the call on that decision. In other words an MHRA validation is a required endorsement, but not an instruction to proceed. That comes from JCVI

    Add a couple of points.

    It doesn't necessarily mean the MRHA is right on this point and JCVI is wrong - or the other way round. Both are looking a trade off between rare events in this age group: getting serious Covid or mycarditis, and coming to a balanced decision. It is quite normal for regulators to come to different views, as we also saw with AZ and the bloodclots issue.

    Secondly, it is an important principle that the requlators make the calls. So we might think they are wrong on a decision, and it may turn out that they were wrong. We can criticise them on a blog like this, but it shouldn't make any difference to the decisions they actually make, which are informed by their knowledge and the facts in front of them.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 1,524
    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Quincel said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the pentathlon disciplines are based in the military requirements of Victorian times, what events would make more sense for a truly modern pentathlon ?

    Hacking the secured email server of the other athlete's governing bodies.
    Not exactly the most compelling viewing, though.
    Each discipline needs both utility and crowd appeal.
    Drone Quidditch.

    Mortar bowls.

    Rally driving.

    Rib racing.
    Add a tuk tuk event, and you might be onto something.
    Tuk tuk polo? (Oddly not as fun as it sounds)
    Or bar crawl, with different rounds to be consumed at each stop.

    Militarily relevant, as EMP could take out GPS etc, and this would test navigational skills under stress conditions.
    Global Thermonuclear War.

    No half measures.


    A guaranteed medal for New Zealand, though.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 30,984

    Breaking

    Scientist announce from Downing Street all 16-17 year olds to be offered covid vaccine

    Which is ridiculous given that just two weeks ago they said that it's less safe for 16/17 year olds to get vaccinated than to get COVID.

    Completely agree with your header @Pulpstar the JCVI are another one of those advisory bodies who look at this in complete isolation. Vaccination is the way out of the idiotic school bubbles permanently. That system has done more harm to kids than Pfizer or Moderna, given that we can (and probably should) give advice of a 48h rest period after each dose for under 30s.
This discussion has been closed.