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Will Starmer be Labour leader at the next general election? – politicalbetting.com

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  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,487
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    No dissent from me. Only ill health is likely to stop him, John Smith style. He looks pretty healthy to me, certainly a lot healthier than Smith did.

    Its team Starmer that is the problem in terms of succession. There is no standout candidate AFAIC that would be better the current incumbent.

    Certainly not in Parliament. You have to be careful as you get older that your memories do not get tinged with nostalgia but I cannot recall a time when so few politicians of any party had any credibility or standing with the public as they do right now and Labour seem particularly badly affected although the Tories are far from immune. Starmer is as good as it gets in Labour.
    Now, you've drawn me into a Starmer is crap post.

    There are plenty of able Labour MPs , who are available, Benn, Kinnock, Cooper, Jarvis and plenty of others, plus people outside Parliament. Sadly after Corbyn there are also a raft of former quality Labour Politicians who are also outside the Party. And no I am not referring directly to Corbyn.

    The key problem of why, for good or bad, we are lumbered with Starmer is the vague, but worrying prospect that he could be replaced by a moron like Burgon or RLB.
    I think that there are few bright young things on the Labour benches is a feature of the massive defeat under Corbyn. It means that there are fewer new faces, and only those in the safest seats remain, therefore old timers or people like the useless Webbe in Leicester West, parachuted in under Corbyn following the purges.

    I think the next Leader will be Nandy or Rayner, or someone else elected after 2010.
    Leicester East, and Webbe replaced Keith Vaz who was not victim of a Corbynite purge, even if Webbe was parachuted in. Leicester West is Liz Kendall, who is just about hanging on.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 39,240
    edited July 2021
    FPT
    justin124 said:

    @StuartDickson
    @Theuniondivvie

    Scottish Labour won their largest percentage of Scottish seats under Blair, in 1997 and 2001 (56 out of 72 available back then). Under Corbyn, they collapsed!

    The 2015 figure is wrong. Under Miliband Labour was reduced to 1 seat in Scotland.
    Yes, my apologies!

    Here is the corrected table:

    GE Scots seats %seats Boss

    1970 44/71 61.9% Wilson
    1974F 40/71 56.3% Wilson
    1974O 41/71 57.7% Wilson
    1979 44/71 61.9% Callaghan
    1983 41/72 56.9% Foot
    1987 50/72 69.4% Kinnock
    1992 49/72 68.1% Kinnock
    1997 56/72 77.8% Blair
    2001 56/72 77.8% Blair

    2005 41/59 69.5% Blair
    2010 41/59 69.5% Brown
    2015 1/59 1.6% Miliband
    2017 7/59 11.9% Corbyn
    2019 1/59 1.6% Corbyn
    Scottish Labour won their largest percentage of Scottish seats under Blair, in 1997 and 2001 (56 out of 72 available back then). Under Miliband and Corbyn, they collapsed!

    Sorely and bitterly disappointed that @StuartDickson didn't spot my mistake :lol:
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    No dissent from me. Only ill health is likely to stop him, John Smith style. He looks pretty healthy to me, certainly a lot healthier than Smith did.

    Its team Starmer that is the problem in terms of succession. There is no standout candidate AFAIC that would be better the current incumbent.

    Certainly not in Parliament. You have to be careful as you get older that your memories do not get tinged with nostalgia but I cannot recall a time when so few politicians of any party had any credibility or standing with the public as they do right now and Labour seem particularly badly affected although the Tories are far from immune. Starmer is as good as it gets in Labour.
    Now, you've drawn me into a Starmer is crap post.

    There are plenty of able Labour MPs , who are available, Benn, Kinnock, Cooper, Jarvis and plenty of others, plus people outside Parliament. Sadly after Corbyn there are also a raft of former quality Labour Politicians who are also outside the Party. And no I am not referring directly to Corbyn.

    The key problem of why, for good or bad, we are lumbered with Starmer is the vague, but worrying prospect that he could be replaced by a moron like Burgon or RLB.
    I think that there are few bright young things on the Labour benches is a feature of the massive defeat under Corbyn. It means that there are fewer new faces, and only those in the safest seats remain, therefore old timers or people like the useless Webbe in Leicester West, parachuted in under Corbyn following the purges.

    I think the next Leader will be Nandy or Rayner, or someone else elected after 2010.
    Let it be Rayner..please.. she is the thickest MP since Abbott
    I don't think either Rayner or Abbott are thick. Abbott's problem is that her intellect has declined markedly over the years, probably through her health issues.

    I think that Starmer will be in post at the GE, and will probably gain a modest number of seats, but probably not enough to form a government.
    Have you watched some of Rayners videos?. If she isn't thick, then why is she
    spouting crap....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 46,531
    Julia HB told to self isolate by Track & Trace.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,042

    Julia HB told to self isolate by Track & Trace.

    And every other fcuker.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582

    Julia HB told to self isolate by Track & Trace.

    And yes, I know when and where I came into contact with the person who tested positive because the 10 day isolation period translates back to the date of my flight home from my holiday.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1419289482176704514?s=20

    Bloody unnecessary foreign travel....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited July 2021
    "Furlough political journalists."

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1419267151756767232?s=20

    This reply made me chuckle...

    The ‘peston’ variant seems to have been present throughout the covid saga. Symptoms include fear mongering, being too close to the screen at 5pm every day and asking questions longer than the extended version of War & peace. Fortunately patient zero has only infected Beth rigby

    https://twitter.com/hillb0y/status/1419275691351236612?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 46,531
    edited July 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe the German Greens won't be in second place for much longer, given recent trends.

    "@EuropeElects
    Germany, INSA poll:

    CDU/CSU-EPP: 27% (-2)
    GRÜNE-G/EFA: 18%
    SPD-S&D: 17% (+0.5)
    FDP-RE: 13% (+1)
    AfD-ID: 11% (-0.5)
    LINKE-LEFT: 7% (+1)

    +/- vs. 16-19 Jul

    Fieldwork: 19-23 July 2021
    Sample size: 1,316 "

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1419072422251307013

    My header for PB on German Greens a couple of months ago looking distinctly unprescient at the moment! :pensive:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582

    Julia HB told to self isolate by Track & Trace.

    And every other fcuker.
    Like getting the Moderna vaccine, only the cool kids don't get pinged ;-)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 46,531

    Julia HB told to self isolate by Track & Trace.

    And every other fcuker.
    Like getting the Moderna vaccine, only the cool kids don't get pinged ;-)
    I suspect her radio show tomorrow will just be a serious of expletives and the word 'pingdemic' for the first hour.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 46,531

    "Furlough political journalists."

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1419267151756767232?s=20

    This reply made me chuckle...

    The ‘peston’ variant seems to have been present throughout the covid saga. Symptoms include fear mongering, being too close to the screen at 5pm every day and asking questions longer than the extended version of War & peace. Fortunately patient zero has only infected Beth rigby

    https://twitter.com/hillb0y/status/1419275691351236612?s=20

    "Furlough political journalists"

    Is there a petition?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582

    Julia HB told to self isolate by Track & Trace.

    And every other fcuker.
    Like getting the Moderna vaccine, only the cool kids don't get pinged ;-)
    I suspect her radio show tomorrow will just be a serious of expletives and the word 'pingdemic' for the first hour.
    So her regular show then ;-)

    I wonder when she gets signed up to GB News?
  • TresTres Posts: 680
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Team GB on the track is especially weak this time around. Its Dina Asher Smith and KJT and then maybe sprint relays and thats about it.

    Yes, the indoor cycling team doesn't look in great shape either. The rowers will also win fewer medals than Rio as well. Our medal factories are going to underperform.
    And the like of athletics, gymnastics, rowing and swimming are going to get even less next cycle, but its ok because we funded sports like basketball....where we have square root of f##k chance in.
    WHY DID WE DO THIS

    Seriously, why?

    The country enjoyed our incredible Olympics prowess. So.... they change the methods that produced it? FFS!
    Because sport is about so much more than the nationality of Olympic medalists.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,396

    "Furlough political journalists."

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1419267151756767232?s=20

    This reply made me chuckle...

    The ‘peston’ variant seems to have been present throughout the covid saga. Symptoms include fear mongering, being too close to the screen at 5pm every day and asking questions longer than the extended version of War & peace. Fortunately patient zero has only infected Beth rigby

    https://twitter.com/hillb0y/status/1419275691351236612?s=20

    "Furlough political journalists"

    Is there a petition?
    One problem, according to my journalist friend, is that many journalists think that a raw data feed, or a general report with in formation in it as "buried news". To them, proper government consists of handing them press releases, with the answers all filled it.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 7,073
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Apocalyptic thundercracks here in Camden

    I see Fearsome Portents

    Which area of London has been your favourite to live in? Unless it's Camden.
    Telegraph Hill, SE14. We currently have the thunder storm down here, absolutely pelting it down. The plan to walk over to Peckham for dinner may have to be tweaked...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited July 2021

    "Furlough political journalists."

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1419267151756767232?s=20

    This reply made me chuckle...

    The ‘peston’ variant seems to have been present throughout the covid saga. Symptoms include fear mongering, being too close to the screen at 5pm every day and asking questions longer than the extended version of War & peace. Fortunately patient zero has only infected Beth rigby

    https://twitter.com/hillb0y/status/1419275691351236612?s=20

    "Furlough political journalists"

    Is there a petition?
    One problem, according to my journalist friend, is that many journalists think that a raw data feed, or a general report with in formation in it as "buried news". To them, proper government consists of handing them press releases, with the answers all filled it.
    Well it is rather dangerous, because if you aren't careful you get Ed Conway doing his "data dive" telling everybody that 79% vaccine efficacy means 21 out of every 100 people will get infected.....and then extrapolating to cover 21% of the whole population getting covid and how many that will mean in hospital.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,880

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    No dissent from me. Only ill health is likely to stop him, John Smith style. He looks pretty healthy to me, certainly a lot healthier than Smith did.

    Its team Starmer that is the problem in terms of succession. There is no standout candidate AFAIC that would be better the current incumbent.

    Certainly not in Parliament. You have to be careful as you get older that your memories do not get tinged with nostalgia but I cannot recall a time when so few politicians of any party had any credibility or standing with the public as they do right now and Labour seem particularly badly affected although the Tories are far from immune. Starmer is as good as it gets in Labour.
    Now, you've drawn me into a Starmer is crap post.

    There are plenty of able Labour MPs , who are available, Benn, Kinnock, Cooper, Jarvis and plenty of others, plus people outside Parliament. Sadly after Corbyn there are also a raft of former quality Labour Politicians who are also outside the Party. And no I am not referring directly to Corbyn.

    The key problem of why, for good or bad, we are lumbered with Starmer is the vague, but worrying prospect that he could be replaced by a moron like Burgon or RLB.
    I think that there are few bright young things on the Labour benches is a feature of the massive defeat under Corbyn. It means that there are fewer new faces, and only those in the safest seats remain, therefore old timers or people like the useless Webbe in Leicester West, parachuted in under Corbyn following the purges.

    I think the next Leader will be Nandy or Rayner, or someone else elected after 2010.
    Leicester East, and Webbe replaced Keith Vaz who was not victim of a Corbynite purge, even if Webbe was parachuted in. Leicester West is Liz Kendall, who is just about hanging on.
    Yes, of course. The infighting in Leicester East Labour Party is such that in the event of a by election they may well lose a lot more of the majority. For all his faults Vaz was good at cultivating his constituency vote.

    Liz Kendall should be alright in LWest, as she held on in 2019, though the new boundaries are probably not going to help her.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,335
    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Right at the beginning of the pandemic… I was told by a very senior figure that there was “a lot of worry” the Queen could be killed by Covid, with incalculable effects on public morale and trust in government.

    While elaborate precautions were put in motion to safeguard the Queen, someone in government did not get the memo. Or he did receive the memo, but couldn’t be arsed to read it. In mid-March of last year, when staff at Number 10 were already falling ill as the virus rampaged around that rabbit-warren building, Boris Johnson told aides that he was going to carry on with his weekly in-person audience with the Queen. He answered protests that this was sensationally reckless by responding: “That’s what I do every Wednesday. Sod this, I’m gonna go and see her.”

    In the initial phase of this crisis, it was “sod this” to attending meetings Cobra because he was too busy dealing with his divorce. Then it was “sod this” to agreeing to a timely first lockdown because that involved accepting how serious the situation had become. Last autumn, it was “sod this” to the scientists when they warned that the disease would accelerate wildly out of control if he didn’t impose a second lockdown. And “sod this” to acting in time to save lives because he had made a baseless promise that the nation could revel through a “normal Christmas”. It was also “sod this” to the fatality rate because the data suggested to him that the median age of those claimed by Covid was 82. “That is above life expectancy,” he flippantly declared. “So get Covid and live longer.” He went on to say: “I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff.” That’s something Number 10 can’t deny because it was recorded in WhatsApp messages.

    Mr Johnson feared a monstering at the hands of the rightwing media and a big revolt by Tory MPs, a chunk of whom turned up in the chamber of the Commons ostentatiously refusing to wear masks. On Mr Cummings’ account, the prime minister regards the Daily Telegraph, for which he once wrote a highly remunerative column, as “my real boss”. That puts everyone else in their place. It is to this minority faction of opinion, not to parliament or the public, that he sees himself as answerable.

    Few can claim to have got everything right about this pandemic, but none has been more consistently wrong than the threat-deniers, lockdown-haters, mask-defiers and let-it-rippers. Yet this is the one group to whom the prime minister is never capable of saying “sod this”.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Leon said:

    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Apocalyptic thundercracks here in Camden

    I see Fearsome Portents

    Which area of London has been your favourite to live in? Unless it's Camden.
    In order

    Marylebone
    Fitzrovia
    Camden
    Bloomsbury
    Primrose Hill
    Wapping
    Brixton Prison
    Wormwood Scrubs
    Why was Brixton better than wormwood scrubs?
    More freedom, within the context of prison. Wormwood Scrubs was "23 hour bang up" - literally in your cell 23 hours a day. Basically torture

    Also the screws overlooked dope smoking in Brixton. Which was kinda humane. They'd walk into your smoke-filled cell, tut, then just walk out again

    Booze, however, suffered zero tolerance. Because violence

    This was long before the days of evil skunk, however
    Thx - just curious. Not looking to seek out either 😁
  • EPGEPG Posts: 3,729
    But, like, the less involvement by Johnson in crisis management, the better. So absenting himself from the pandemic crisis elements is fine with me.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,880

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    No dissent from me. Only ill health is likely to stop him, John Smith style. He looks pretty healthy to me, certainly a lot healthier than Smith did.

    Its team Starmer that is the problem in terms of succession. There is no standout candidate AFAIC that would be better the current incumbent.

    Certainly not in Parliament. You have to be careful as you get older that your memories do not get tinged with nostalgia but I cannot recall a time when so few politicians of any party had any credibility or standing with the public as they do right now and Labour seem particularly badly affected although the Tories are far from immune. Starmer is as good as it gets in Labour.
    Now, you've drawn me into a Starmer is crap post.

    There are plenty of able Labour MPs , who are available, Benn, Kinnock, Cooper, Jarvis and plenty of others, plus people outside Parliament. Sadly after Corbyn there are also a raft of former quality Labour Politicians who are also outside the Party. And no I am not referring directly to Corbyn.

    The key problem of why, for good or bad, we are lumbered with Starmer is the vague, but worrying prospect that he could be replaced by a moron like Burgon or RLB.
    I think that there are few bright young things on the Labour benches is a feature of the massive defeat under Corbyn. It means that there are fewer new faces, and only those in the safest seats remain, therefore old timers or people like the useless Webbe in Leicester West, parachuted in under Corbyn following the purges.

    I think the next Leader will be Nandy or Rayner, or someone else elected after 2010.
    Let it be Rayner..please.. she is the thickest MP since Abbott
    I don't think either Rayner or Abbott are thick. Abbott's problem is that her intellect has declined markedly over the years, probably through her health issues.

    I think that Starmer will be in post at the GE, and will probably gain a modest number of seats, but probably not enough to form a government.
    Have you watched some of Rayners videos?. If she isn't thick, then why is she
    spouting crap....
    There is a big difference between being clever and having a long formal education. I think Rayner has a sharp mind and good political antennae. That is why she is queen over the water, if Starmer goes.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,139
    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    It's a bit sad that I explain an idea that might be positive towards Scottish Independence, and the self-proclaimed Scottish 'experts' on here ignore it and just choose to go on their usual arguments against their enemies.

    If they think it was a stupid idea, fair enough. Ditto in the unlikely event they thought it was a brilliant, positive idea. Instead there is the PB equivalent of tumbleweeds blowing down the glen. But I'd hope they'd at least address the idea ...

    For my part I've been busy with DIY so have only just had a late lunch (black pudding and fried egg roll and home made tomato soup with French beans) and now seen this and looked up the idea. Don't want you to feel neglected, but it is simply too much of a conditional event, a detail on the main issue. Indeed, an idea for the future, nice as it is. To express support or criticism of it is like discussing what nibbles to have at the book launch before you've handed in the TS to the publisher - or indeed like Mr Johnson calculating on an outburst of love for the Tories from the NIrish when his bridge(s) are completed - and would instantly and rightly invite ridicule and a monstering from the PB Unionists. (One might almost suspect you of being mischievous were one unkind. But I'm too nice to do that.)

    But just to prove I read the proposal, I have a purely practical point to make. It wouldn't necessarily work as stated: many modern papers and inks aren't permanent on that sort of timescale: you'd need to tell people to use acid-free paper and pigment inks and that would be an instant turnoff for many, who wouldn't know what you were on about never mind what to get hold of.
    Thanks for your reply, though I'm so jealous of your lunch that I might just tell you to f*** *** **** *** **** ***. ;) . On your last point, I was going to suggest vellum, but some might have objections to that. The way I see it working is to go around Scotland, playing to small arenas; lay out the independence cause, and then invite people to sign pages (later to be bound). ISTR in 2014 they went for an Internet-based approach, which was fairly pathetic.

    It could become a focal point, reaching every point of the country.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,312
    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Right at the beginning of the pandemic… I was told by a very senior figure that there was “a lot of worry” the Queen could be killed by Covid, with incalculable effects on public morale and trust in government.

    While elaborate precautions were put in motion to safeguard the Queen, someone in government did not get the memo. Or he did receive the memo, but couldn’t be arsed to read it. In mid-March of last year, when staff at Number 10 were already falling ill as the virus rampaged around that rabbit-warren building, Boris Johnson told aides that he was going to carry on with his weekly in-person audience with the Queen. He answered protests that this was sensationally reckless by responding: “That’s what I do every Wednesday. Sod this, I’m gonna go and see her.”

    In the initial phase of this crisis, it was “sod this” to attending meetings Cobra because he was too busy dealing with his divorce. Then it was “sod this” to agreeing to a timely first lockdown because that involved accepting how serious the situation had become. Last autumn, it was “sod this” to the scientists when they warned that the disease would accelerate wildly out of control if he didn’t impose a second lockdown. And “sod this” to acting in time to save lives because he had made a baseless promise that the nation could revel through a “normal Christmas”. It was also “sod this” to the fatality rate because the data suggested to him that the median age of those claimed by Covid was 82. “That is above life expectancy,” he flippantly declared. “So get Covid and live longer.” He went on to say: “I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff.” That’s something Number 10 can’t deny because it was recorded in WhatsApp messages.

    Mr Johnson feared a monstering at the hands of the rightwing media and a big revolt by Tory MPs, a chunk of whom turned up in the chamber of the Commons ostentatiously refusing to wear masks. On Mr Cummings’ account, the prime minister regards the Daily Telegraph, for which he once wrote a highly remunerative column, as “my real boss”. That puts everyone else in their place. It is to this minority faction of opinion, not to parliament or the public, that he sees himself as answerable.

    Few can claim to have got everything right about this pandemic, but none has been more consistently wrong than the threat-deniers, lockdown-haters, mask-defiers and let-it-rippers. Yet this is the one group to whom the prime minister is never capable of saying “sod this”.

    And it was also "sod this" to border control yet Rawnsley doesn't mention it.

    Perhaps because Rawnsley thinks likewise ?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,577
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Team GB on the track is especially weak this time around. Its Dina Asher Smith and KJT and then maybe sprint relays and thats about it.

    Yes, the indoor cycling team doesn't look in great shape either. The rowers will also win fewer medals than Rio as well. Our medal factories are going to underperform.
    And the like of athletics, gymnastics, rowing and swimming are going to get even less next cycle, but its ok because we funded sports like basketball....where we have square root of f##k chance in.
    WHY DID WE DO THIS

    Seriously, why?

    The country enjoyed our incredible Olympics prowess. So.... they change the methods that produced it? FFS!
    Too many poshos winning medals.....
    Was it really that? Really?

    Fucking morons
    Yes and no....read my mote serious answer. Its was about encouraging wider range of sports, concerns over a feedback loop and i think unease that a load of poshos do well in posho sports, which does encourage widespread participation in sport.

    Overall its as absolutely dumb and self defeating....its pointless funding basketball for the Olympics for instance, just because its more diverse, we ain't a hope or funding an athlete on the track in an event they clearly aren't top 10. Especially if it means taking away from things like sailing or rowing, which GB historically excel in.
    More to do with the systematic bullying, wasn't it?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/cycling/british-cycling-independent-review-bullying-jess-varnish-shane-sutton-a7789211.html

    In any case, isn't it better to leave the analysis until after the games?. Let's see how we do first. It always surprises me how negative towards the teams supposed British/English patriots are.
    We also rarely get many medals in the first few days. I’m not expecting a bumper haul, but we’ll do ok.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 39,240
    edited July 2021
    Heavy bloody rain and very dark in outer east London right now - have to turn on my living room lights at 4pm in July!
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,114
    Let’s be honest. That’s why a fair few watch it 😂😂😂😂
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,487
    edited July 2021
    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,991

    Heavy bloody rain and very dark in outer east London right now - have to turn on my living room lights at 4pm in July!

    Can some of it - not all of it, obvs - come up to the Midlands? The weather’s been drier than my sense of humour for the last ten days and my garden looks thirsty.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited July 2021

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    It's a bit sad that I explain an idea that might be positive towards Scottish Independence, and the self-proclaimed Scottish 'experts' on here ignore it and just choose to go on their usual arguments against their enemies.

    If they think it was a stupid idea, fair enough. Ditto in the unlikely event they thought it was a brilliant, positive idea. Instead there is the PB equivalent of tumbleweeds blowing down the glen. But I'd hope they'd at least address the idea ...

    For my part I've been busy with DIY so have only just had a late lunch (black pudding and fried egg roll and home made tomato soup with French beans) and now seen this and looked up the idea. Don't want you to feel neglected, but it is simply too much of a conditional event, a detail on the main issue. Indeed, an idea for the future, nice as it is. To express support or criticism of it is like discussing what nibbles to have at the book launch before you've handed in the TS to the publisher - or indeed like Mr Johnson calculating on an outburst of love for the Tories from the NIrish when his bridge(s) are completed - and would instantly and rightly invite ridicule and a monstering from the PB Unionists. (One might almost suspect you of being mischievous were one unkind. But I'm too nice to do that.)

    But just to prove I read the proposal, I have a purely practical point to make. It wouldn't necessarily work as stated: many modern papers and inks aren't permanent on that sort of timescale: you'd need to tell people to use acid-free paper and pigment inks and that would be an instant turnoff for many, who wouldn't know what you were on about never mind what to get hold of.
    Thanks for your reply, though I'm so jealous of your lunch that I might just tell you to f*** *** **** *** **** ***. ;) . On your last point, I was going to suggest vellum, but some might have objections to that. The way I see it working is to go around Scotland, playing to small arenas; lay out the independence cause, and then invite people to sign pages (later to be bound). ISTR in 2014 they went for an Internet-based approach, which was fairly pathetic.

    It could become a focal point, reaching every point of the country.
    I posted this picture of my cousin Edward signing the Ulster Covenant on the last thread but you may have missed it

    https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/the-lesson-we-can-learn-from-this-decade-of-remembrance-with-somme-and-rising-is-death-does-not-take-sides-34971588.html
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,316
    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Right at the beginning of the pandemic… I was told by a very senior figure that there was “a lot of worry” the Queen could be killed by Covid, with incalculable effects on public morale and trust in government.

    While elaborate precautions were put in motion to safeguard the Queen, someone in government did not get the memo. Or he did receive the memo, but couldn’t be arsed to read it. In mid-March of last year, when staff at Number 10 were already falling ill as the virus rampaged around that rabbit-warren building, Boris Johnson told aides that he was going to carry on with his weekly in-person audience with the Queen. He answered protests that this was sensationally reckless by responding: “That’s what I do every Wednesday. Sod this, I’m gonna go and see her.”

    In the initial phase of this crisis, it was “sod this” to attending meetings Cobra because he was too busy dealing with his divorce. Then it was “sod this” to agreeing to a timely first lockdown because that involved accepting how serious the situation had become. Last autumn, it was “sod this” to the scientists when they warned that the disease would accelerate wildly out of control if he didn’t impose a second lockdown. And “sod this” to acting in time to save lives because he had made a baseless promise that the nation could revel through a “normal Christmas”. It was also “sod this” to the fatality rate because the data suggested to him that the median age of those claimed by Covid was 82. “That is above life expectancy,” he flippantly declared. “So get Covid and live longer.” He went on to say: “I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff.” That’s something Number 10 can’t deny because it was recorded in WhatsApp messages.

    Mr Johnson feared a monstering at the hands of the rightwing media and a big revolt by Tory MPs, a chunk of whom turned up in the chamber of the Commons ostentatiously refusing to wear masks. On Mr Cummings’ account, the prime minister regards the Daily Telegraph, for which he once wrote a highly remunerative column, as “my real boss”. That puts everyone else in their place. It is to this minority faction of opinion, not to parliament or the public, that he sees himself as answerable.

    Few can claim to have got everything right about this pandemic, but none has been more consistently wrong than the threat-deniers, lockdown-haters, mask-defiers and let-it-rippers. Yet this is the one group to whom the prime minister is never capable of saying “sod this”.

    Hmm. I'm not quite sure of the conclusion. Its' certainly worrying how he comes to his decisions and when, but he has done quite a lot that upsets the lockdown haters and let it rippers, so even if he has acted too late by some of these reports because of them, he hasn't actually done the things they wanted.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,718

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe the German Greens won't be in second place for much longer, given recent trends.

    "@EuropeElects
    Germany, INSA poll:

    CDU/CSU-EPP: 27% (-2)
    GRÜNE-G/EFA: 18%
    SPD-S&D: 17% (+0.5)
    FDP-RE: 13% (+1)
    AfD-ID: 11% (-0.5)
    LINKE-LEFT: 7% (+1)

    +/- vs. 16-19 Jul

    Fieldwork: 19-23 July 2021
    Sample size: 1,316 "

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1419072422251307013

    My header for PB on German Greens a couple of months ago looking distinctly unprescient at the moment! :pensive:
    very repectable showing for the Libs there.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited July 2021
    On Sunday 25 July, 29,173 new cases were reported across the UK.

    Apparently PHE Windows XP computer is still broken for the rest of the data.

    That's lower case number than 2 Sundays ago.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,487
    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Right at the beginning of the pandemic… I was told by a very senior figure that there was “a lot of worry” the Queen could be killed by Covid, with incalculable effects on public morale and trust in government.

    While elaborate precautions were put in motion to safeguard the Queen, someone in government did not get the memo. Or he did receive the memo, but couldn’t be arsed to read it. In mid-March of last year, when staff at Number 10 were already falling ill as the virus rampaged around that rabbit-warren building, Boris Johnson told aides that he was going to carry on with his weekly in-person audience with the Queen. He answered protests that this was sensationally reckless by responding: “That’s what I do every Wednesday. Sod this, I’m gonna go and see her.”

    In the initial phase of this crisis, it was “sod this” to attending meetings Cobra because he was too busy dealing with his divorce. Then it was “sod this” to agreeing to a timely first lockdown because that involved accepting how serious the situation had become. Last autumn, it was “sod this” to the scientists when they warned that the disease would accelerate wildly out of control if he didn’t impose a second lockdown. And “sod this” to acting in time to save lives because he had made a baseless promise that the nation could revel through a “normal Christmas”. It was also “sod this” to the fatality rate because the data suggested to him that the median age of those claimed by Covid was 82. “That is above life expectancy,” he flippantly declared. “So get Covid and live longer.” He went on to say: “I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff.” That’s something Number 10 can’t deny because it was recorded in WhatsApp messages.

    Mr Johnson feared a monstering at the hands of the rightwing media and a big revolt by Tory MPs, a chunk of whom turned up in the chamber of the Commons ostentatiously refusing to wear masks. On Mr Cummings’ account, the prime minister regards the Daily Telegraph, for which he once wrote a highly remunerative column, as “my real boss”. That puts everyone else in their place. It is to this minority faction of opinion, not to parliament or the public, that he sees himself as answerable.

    Few can claim to have got everything right about this pandemic, but none has been more consistently wrong than the threat-deniers, lockdown-haters, mask-defiers and let-it-rippers. Yet this is the one group to whom the prime minister is never capable of saying “sod this”.

    If Rawnsley missed Dominic Cummings telling the same story about Boris attempting regicide, his interview is available on BBC iplayer.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000ygcg/bbc-news-special-dominic-cummings-the-interview
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,302
    FPT:

    Paging Prof Peston....

    Spain's world number one Rahm has tested positive for the second time in as many months.

    Tokyo Olympics: Bryson DeChambeau and Jon Rahm out of golf after testing positive for Covid-19 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57959149

    Although in all seriousness, i presume on Rahm case it is actually it never fully went away. Wasn't there some blokein the UK who kept testing positive for nearly a year?

    Golf has been a shambles of a sport during COVID....the game is literally socially distance outdoor activity.

    Presumably Rahm has tested negative many times since Muirfield Village, not least when he came here for The Open.

  • felixfelix Posts: 13,843
    edited July 2021
    Don't let anyone tell you it's all open and restriction free in the EU:
    EDIT: Nivel 1 is the lowest level of restrictions - 2/3/4 are something else!


  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,359
    29k vs 48k last week - 40% down again, a bit too strong and consistent to just be a blip I would say.
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298
    ydoethur said:

    Since 1935, the only Labour leader to be removed prior to fighting a General Election has been John Smith, and that wasn’t exactly by the Labour Party’s choice. Foot and Corbyn both had very near squeaks of it, but both survived.

    I cannot believe Starmer will be removed involuntarily. Leaving aside the lack of an obvious challenger, Labour is just so bad at regicide it’s actually embarrassing.

    Ill health or a scandal might be different, but he looks pretty fit and while his time as DPP was hardly an unqualified success after Jennifer Arcuri it’s hard to see what would bring any politician down.

    ydoethur said:

    Since 1935, the only Labour leader to be removed prior to fighting a General Election has been John Smith, and that wasn’t exactly by the Labour Party’s choice. Foot and Corbyn both had very near squeaks of it, but both survived.

    I cannot believe Starmer will be removed involuntarily. Leaving aside the lack of an obvious challenger, Labour is just so bad at regicide it’s actually embarrassing.

    Ill health or a scandal might be different, but he looks pretty fit and while his time as DPP was hardly an unqualified success after Jennifer Arcuri it’s hard to see what would bring any politician down.

    But then came Matthew Hancock.
    Then again, ever since Peter Cruddas was exposed on tape offering meetings with prime minister David Cameron for £250K a throw and Cameron stayed in office, the notion that the Augean stables may be cleaned out some time in the foreseeable future has seemed a bit far-fetched.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,718
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Team GB on the track is especially weak this time around. Its Dina Asher Smith and KJT and then maybe sprint relays and thats about it.

    Yes, the indoor cycling team doesn't look in great shape either. The rowers will also win fewer medals than Rio as well. Our medal factories are going to underperform.
    And the like of athletics, gymnastics, rowing and swimming are going to get even less next cycle, but its ok because we funded sports like basketball....where we have square root of f##k chance in.
    WHY DID WE DO THIS

    Seriously, why?

    The country enjoyed our incredible Olympics prowess. So.... they change the methods that produced it? FFS!
    Just like the brexit decision I suppose.....just change the word "olympics" to "trading", infuriating.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,312

    On Sunday 25 July, 29,173 new cases were reported across the UK.

    Apparently PHE Windows XP computer is still broken for the rest of the data.

    That's lower case number than 2 Sundays ago.

    Because of technical difficulties in processing England deaths data, today's update is delayed.

    I wish they would update the cases now and the deaths later as necessary. Its not as if some data isn't reported in any case during the weekend.

    That's two consecutive days lower than two weeks ago.

    Very promising but we will have to see the effect of last week's restriction reduction in next week's numbers.

    Even so with millions more vaccine doses effective and hundreds of thousands more with acquired immunity than two weeks ago the situation is much safer.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Right at the beginning of the pandemic… I was told by a very senior figure that there was “a lot of worry” the Queen could be killed by Covid, with incalculable effects on public morale and trust in government.

    While elaborate precautions were put in motion to safeguard the Queen, someone in government did not get the memo. Or he did receive the memo, but couldn’t be arsed to read it. In mid-March of last year, when staff at Number 10 were already falling ill as the virus rampaged around that rabbit-warren building, Boris Johnson told aides that he was going to carry on with his weekly in-person audience with the Queen. He answered protests that this was sensationally reckless by responding: “That’s what I do every Wednesday. Sod this, I’m gonna go and see her.”

    In the initial phase of this crisis, it was “sod this” to attending meetings Cobra because he was too busy dealing with his divorce. Then it was “sod this” to agreeing to a timely first lockdown because that involved accepting how serious the situation had become. Last autumn, it was “sod this” to the scientists when they warned that the disease would accelerate wildly out of control if he didn’t impose a second lockdown. And “sod this” to acting in time to save lives because he had made a baseless promise that the nation could revel through a “normal Christmas”. It was also “sod this” to the fatality rate because the data suggested to him that the median age of those claimed by Covid was 82. “That is above life expectancy,” he flippantly declared. “So get Covid and live longer.” He went on to say: “I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff.” That’s something Number 10 can’t deny because it was recorded in WhatsApp messages.

    Mr Johnson feared a monstering at the hands of the rightwing media and a big revolt by Tory MPs, a chunk of whom turned up in the chamber of the Commons ostentatiously refusing to wear masks. On Mr Cummings’ account, the prime minister regards the Daily Telegraph, for which he once wrote a highly remunerative column, as “my real boss”. That puts everyone else in their place. It is to this minority faction of opinion, not to parliament or the public, that he sees himself as answerable.

    Few can claim to have got everything right about this pandemic, but none has been more consistently wrong than the threat-deniers, lockdown-haters, mask-defiers and let-it-rippers. Yet this is the one group to whom the prime minister is never capable of saying “sod this”.

    And it was also "sod this" to border control yet Rawnsley doesn't mention it.

    Perhaps because Rawnsley thinks likewise ?
    Is it just me that thing "Prime Minister wanted to continue to see the Queen as he does every week [but doesn't for over a year]" is the biggest non story of this pandemic?

    Whatever his initial thoughts he clearly chose not to in the end.

    Whenever anyone is facing difficult decisions the ability to play Devils Advocate and end up coming down on the right decision is important.

    Better than just going pigheaded and obstinately down the wrong path - either because you're following your own preferences without listening to reason, or because you're listening unquestioningly to "reason" which is wrong and not challenging it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,991
    Gnud said:

    ydoethur said:

    Since 1935, the only Labour leader to be removed prior to fighting a General Election has been John Smith, and that wasn’t exactly by the Labour Party’s choice. Foot and Corbyn both had very near squeaks of it, but both survived.

    I cannot believe Starmer will be removed involuntarily. Leaving aside the lack of an obvious challenger, Labour is just so bad at regicide it’s actually embarrassing.

    Ill health or a scandal might be different, but he looks pretty fit and while his time as DPP was hardly an unqualified success after Jennifer Arcuri it’s hard to see what would bring any politician down.

    ydoethur said:

    Since 1935, the only Labour leader to be removed prior to fighting a General Election has been John Smith, and that wasn’t exactly by the Labour Party’s choice. Foot and Corbyn both had very near squeaks of it, but both survived.

    I cannot believe Starmer will be removed involuntarily. Leaving aside the lack of an obvious challenger, Labour is just so bad at regicide it’s actually embarrassing.

    Ill health or a scandal might be different, but he looks pretty fit and while his time as DPP was hardly an unqualified success after Jennifer Arcuri it’s hard to see what would bring any politician down.

    But then came Matthew Hancock.
    Then again, ever since Peter Cruddas was exposed on tape offering meetings with prime minister David Cameron for £250K a throw and Cameron stayed in office, the notion that the Augean stables may be cleaned out some time in the foreseeable future has seemed a bit far-fetched.
    I still can’t believe he didn’t try a Cummings defence. ‘I just needed to test my sense of taste.’
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,150
    Today's reports


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    Paging Prof Peston....

    Spain's world number one Rahm has tested positive for the second time in as many months.

    Tokyo Olympics: Bryson DeChambeau and Jon Rahm out of golf after testing positive for Covid-19 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57959149

    Although in all seriousness, i presume on Rahm case it is actually it never fully went away. Wasn't there some blokein the UK who kept testing positive for nearly a year?

    Golf has been a shambles of a sport during COVID....the game is literally socially distance outdoor activity.

    Presumably Rahm has tested negative many times since Muirfield Village, not least when he came here for The Open.

    It is only 6 weeks since he had it, so I think it is basically impossible he has actually been re-infected. It is much more likely he has viral material hanging around and it has triggered a positive test.

    I have no idea in terms of the Olympics if they can ask for a re-test. I know one of the British Lions players tested positive, then they retested him 3 days on the bounce and was negative each time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,316

    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Right at the beginning of the pandemic… I was told by a very senior figure that there was “a lot of worry” the Queen could be killed by Covid, with incalculable effects on public morale and trust in government.

    While elaborate precautions were put in motion to safeguard the Queen, someone in government did not get the memo. Or he did receive the memo, but couldn’t be arsed to read it. In mid-March of last year, when staff at Number 10 were already falling ill as the virus rampaged around that rabbit-warren building, Boris Johnson told aides that he was going to carry on with his weekly in-person audience with the Queen. He answered protests that this was sensationally reckless by responding: “That’s what I do every Wednesday. Sod this, I’m gonna go and see her.”

    In the initial phase of this crisis, it was “sod this” to attending meetings Cobra because he was too busy dealing with his divorce. Then it was “sod this” to agreeing to a timely first lockdown because that involved accepting how serious the situation had become. Last autumn, it was “sod this” to the scientists when they warned that the disease would accelerate wildly out of control if he didn’t impose a second lockdown. And “sod this” to acting in time to save lives because he had made a baseless promise that the nation could revel through a “normal Christmas”. It was also “sod this” to the fatality rate because the data suggested to him that the median age of those claimed by Covid was 82. “That is above life expectancy,” he flippantly declared. “So get Covid and live longer.” He went on to say: “I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff.” That’s something Number 10 can’t deny because it was recorded in WhatsApp messages.

    Mr Johnson feared a monstering at the hands of the rightwing media and a big revolt by Tory MPs, a chunk of whom turned up in the chamber of the Commons ostentatiously refusing to wear masks. On Mr Cummings’ account, the prime minister regards the Daily Telegraph, for which he once wrote a highly remunerative column, as “my real boss”. That puts everyone else in their place. It is to this minority faction of opinion, not to parliament or the public, that he sees himself as answerable.

    Few can claim to have got everything right about this pandemic, but none has been more consistently wrong than the threat-deniers, lockdown-haters, mask-defiers and let-it-rippers. Yet this is the one group to whom the prime minister is never capable of saying “sod this”.

    And it was also "sod this" to border control yet Rawnsley doesn't mention it.

    Perhaps because Rawnsley thinks likewise ?
    Is it just me that thing "Prime Minister wanted to continue to see the Queen as he does every week [but doesn't for over a year]" is the biggest non story of this pandemic?

    Whatever his initial thoughts he clearly chose not to in the end.

    Whenever anyone is facing difficult decisions the ability to play Devils Advocate and end up coming down on the right decision is important.

    Better than just going pigheaded and obstinately down the wrong path - either because you're following your own preferences without listening to reason, or because you're listening unquestioningly to "reason" which is wrong and not challenging it.
    I think there's something in critiquing his instincts, and where that may have led to delays or problems on other matters, but that particular issue had no effect it would seem, so is focused on as a juicy story only.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,150
    edited July 2021
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Team GB on the track is especially weak this time around. Its Dina Asher Smith and KJT and then maybe sprint relays and thats about it.

    Yes, the indoor cycling team doesn't look in great shape either. The rowers will also win fewer medals than Rio as well. Our medal factories are going to underperform.
    And the like of athletics, gymnastics, rowing and swimming are going to get even less next cycle, but its ok because we funded sports like basketball....where we have square root of f##k chance in.
    WHY DID WE DO THIS

    Seriously, why?

    The country enjoyed our incredible Olympics prowess. So.... they change the methods that produced it? FFS!
    They haven't. There comes a point when continued underperformance for the considerable funding that is provided has to have consequences. And force the affected sports to take action to turn things round (and if necessary find some of their own funding in the meantime).

  • sladeslade Posts: 1,402

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    Unlike on the professional tour radios are not allowed in the Olympics. There also was an absence of blackboard info from the motorbikes. So the riders had very little information of the gaps in the peloton.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited July 2021
    slade said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    Unlike on the professional tour radios are not allowed in the Olympics. There also was an absence of blackboard info from the motorbikes. So the riders had very little information of the gaps in the peloton.
    You would think with all the modern technology that countries would have a "spectator" with an ipad just standing at the side of the road. Also they still go to team cars to get supplies right? Surely somebody would text at least one and say your missing one of the break away, or the break away is x riders, make sure you count them as you pass.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,898

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,335

    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Right at the beginning of the pandemic… I was told by a very senior figure that there was “a lot of worry” the Queen could be killed by Covid, with incalculable effects on public morale and trust in government.

    While elaborate precautions were put in motion to safeguard the Queen, someone in government did not get the memo. Or he did receive the memo, but couldn’t be arsed to read it. In mid-March of last year, when staff at Number 10 were already falling ill as the virus rampaged around that rabbit-warren building, Boris Johnson told aides that he was going to carry on with his weekly in-person audience with the Queen. He answered protests that this was sensationally reckless by responding: “That’s what I do every Wednesday. Sod this, I’m gonna go and see her.”

    In the initial phase of this crisis, it was “sod this” to attending meetings Cobra because he was too busy dealing with his divorce. Then it was “sod this” to agreeing to a timely first lockdown because that involved accepting how serious the situation had become. Last autumn, it was “sod this” to the scientists when they warned that the disease would accelerate wildly out of control if he didn’t impose a second lockdown. And “sod this” to acting in time to save lives because he had made a baseless promise that the nation could revel through a “normal Christmas”. It was also “sod this” to the fatality rate because the data suggested to him that the median age of those claimed by Covid was 82. “That is above life expectancy,” he flippantly declared. “So get Covid and live longer.” He went on to say: “I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff.” That’s something Number 10 can’t deny because it was recorded in WhatsApp messages.

    Mr Johnson feared a monstering at the hands of the rightwing media and a big revolt by Tory MPs, a chunk of whom turned up in the chamber of the Commons ostentatiously refusing to wear masks. On Mr Cummings’ account, the prime minister regards the Daily Telegraph, for which he once wrote a highly remunerative column, as “my real boss”. That puts everyone else in their place. It is to this minority faction of opinion, not to parliament or the public, that he sees himself as answerable.

    Few can claim to have got everything right about this pandemic, but none has been more consistently wrong than the threat-deniers, lockdown-haters, mask-defiers and let-it-rippers. Yet this is the one group to whom the prime minister is never capable of saying “sod this”.

    And it was also "sod this" to border control yet Rawnsley doesn't mention it.

    Perhaps because Rawnsley thinks likewise ?
    Is it just me that thing "Prime Minister wanted to continue to see the Queen as he does every week [but doesn't for over a year]" is the biggest non story of this pandemic?

    Whatever his initial thoughts he clearly chose not to in the end.

    Whenever anyone is facing difficult decisions the ability to play Devils Advocate and end up coming down on the right decision is important.

    Better than just going pigheaded and obstinately down the wrong path - either because you're following your own preferences without listening to reason, or because you're listening unquestioningly to "reason" which is wrong and not challenging it.
    The point is that the PM’s judgement is so often wrong, and he has to be read the riot act by his aides - or have the obvious pointed out to him - before he agrees to do the right thing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,991

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    I’m a bad person.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,991

    slade said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    Unlike on the professional tour radios are not allowed in the Olympics. There also was an absence of blackboard info from the motorbikes. So the riders had very little information of the gaps in the peloton.
    You would think with all the modern technology that countries would have a "spectator" with an ipad just standing at the side of the road. Also they still go to team cars to get supplies right? Surely somebody would text at least one and say your missing one of the break away, or the break away is x riders, make sure you count them as you pass.
    Count them? But surely the maths prof was the one who was in front?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,312

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    Paging Prof Peston....

    Spain's world number one Rahm has tested positive for the second time in as many months.

    Tokyo Olympics: Bryson DeChambeau and Jon Rahm out of golf after testing positive for Covid-19 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57959149

    Although in all seriousness, i presume on Rahm case it is actually it never fully went away. Wasn't there some blokein the UK who kept testing positive for nearly a year?

    Golf has been a shambles of a sport during COVID....the game is literally socially distance outdoor activity.

    Presumably Rahm has tested negative many times since Muirfield Village, not least when he came here for The Open.

    It is only 6 weeks since he had it, so I think it is basically impossible he has actually been re-infected. It is much more likely he has viral material hanging around and it has triggered a positive test.

    I have no idea in terms of the Olympics if they can ask for a re-test. I know one of the British Lions players tested positive, then they retested him 3 days on the bounce and was negative each time.
    Is it possible that he had some viral material 'hanging around' but picked up a little more later on ?

    With neither of the two being enough to trigger a positive test but combined they did.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,396

    On Sunday 25 July, 29,173 new cases were reported across the UK.

    Apparently PHE Windows XP computer is still broken for the rest of the data.

    That's lower case number than 2 Sundays ago.

    Because of technical difficulties in processing England deaths data, today's update is delayed.

    I wish they would update the cases now and the deaths later as necessary. Its not as if some data isn't reported in any case during the weekend.

    That's two consecutive days lower than two weeks ago.

    Very promising but we will have to see the effect of last week's restriction reduction in next week's numbers.

    Even so with millions more vaccine doses effective and hundreds of thousands more with acquired immunity than two weeks ago the situation is much safer.
    The actually PHE dashboard system is using top-of-the-line software and methodologies.

    The problem is that due the usual my-little-empire & my-pet-techonlogies in various places the inputs to the system range from database connections to hand created and uploaded files.

    For example, several organisations have forbidden a direct data feed from their organisation to the dashboard system(s).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,396
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Right at the beginning of the pandemic… I was told by a very senior figure that there was “a lot of worry” the Queen could be killed by Covid, with incalculable effects on public morale and trust in government.

    While elaborate precautions were put in motion to safeguard the Queen, someone in government did not get the memo. Or he did receive the memo, but couldn’t be arsed to read it. In mid-March of last year, when staff at Number 10 were already falling ill as the virus rampaged around that rabbit-warren building, Boris Johnson told aides that he was going to carry on with his weekly in-person audience with the Queen. He answered protests that this was sensationally reckless by responding: “That’s what I do every Wednesday. Sod this, I’m gonna go and see her.”

    In the initial phase of this crisis, it was “sod this” to attending meetings Cobra because he was too busy dealing with his divorce. Then it was “sod this” to agreeing to a timely first lockdown because that involved accepting how serious the situation had become. Last autumn, it was “sod this” to the scientists when they warned that the disease would accelerate wildly out of control if he didn’t impose a second lockdown. And “sod this” to acting in time to save lives because he had made a baseless promise that the nation could revel through a “normal Christmas”. It was also “sod this” to the fatality rate because the data suggested to him that the median age of those claimed by Covid was 82. “That is above life expectancy,” he flippantly declared. “So get Covid and live longer.” He went on to say: “I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff.” That’s something Number 10 can’t deny because it was recorded in WhatsApp messages.

    Mr Johnson feared a monstering at the hands of the rightwing media and a big revolt by Tory MPs, a chunk of whom turned up in the chamber of the Commons ostentatiously refusing to wear masks. On Mr Cummings’ account, the prime minister regards the Daily Telegraph, for which he once wrote a highly remunerative column, as “my real boss”. That puts everyone else in their place. It is to this minority faction of opinion, not to parliament or the public, that he sees himself as answerable.

    Few can claim to have got everything right about this pandemic, but none has been more consistently wrong than the threat-deniers, lockdown-haters, mask-defiers and let-it-rippers. Yet this is the one group to whom the prime minister is never capable of saying “sod this”.

    And it was also "sod this" to border control yet Rawnsley doesn't mention it.

    Perhaps because Rawnsley thinks likewise ?
    Is it just me that thing "Prime Minister wanted to continue to see the Queen as he does every week [but doesn't for over a year]" is the biggest non story of this pandemic?

    Whatever his initial thoughts he clearly chose not to in the end.

    Whenever anyone is facing difficult decisions the ability to play Devils Advocate and end up coming down on the right decision is important.

    Better than just going pigheaded and obstinately down the wrong path - either because you're following your own preferences without listening to reason, or because you're listening unquestioningly to "reason" which is wrong and not challenging it.
    The point is that the PM’s judgement is so often wrong, and he has to be read the riot act by his aides - or have the obvious pointed out to him - before he agrees to do the right thing.
    Have you read the Alan Brooke diaries?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,115
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Right at the beginning of the pandemic… I was told by a very senior figure that there was “a lot of worry” the Queen could be killed by Covid, with incalculable effects on public morale and trust in government.

    While elaborate precautions were put in motion to safeguard the Queen, someone in government did not get the memo. Or he did receive the memo, but couldn’t be arsed to read it. In mid-March of last year, when staff at Number 10 were already falling ill as the virus rampaged around that rabbit-warren building, Boris Johnson told aides that he was going to carry on with his weekly in-person audience with the Queen. He answered protests that this was sensationally reckless by responding: “That’s what I do every Wednesday. Sod this, I’m gonna go and see her.”

    In the initial phase of this crisis, it was “sod this” to attending meetings Cobra because he was too busy dealing with his divorce. Then it was “sod this” to agreeing to a timely first lockdown because that involved accepting how serious the situation had become. Last autumn, it was “sod this” to the scientists when they warned that the disease would accelerate wildly out of control if he didn’t impose a second lockdown. And “sod this” to acting in time to save lives because he had made a baseless promise that the nation could revel through a “normal Christmas”. It was also “sod this” to the fatality rate because the data suggested to him that the median age of those claimed by Covid was 82. “That is above life expectancy,” he flippantly declared. “So get Covid and live longer.” He went on to say: “I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff.” That’s something Number 10 can’t deny because it was recorded in WhatsApp messages.

    Mr Johnson feared a monstering at the hands of the rightwing media and a big revolt by Tory MPs, a chunk of whom turned up in the chamber of the Commons ostentatiously refusing to wear masks. On Mr Cummings’ account, the prime minister regards the Daily Telegraph, for which he once wrote a highly remunerative column, as “my real boss”. That puts everyone else in their place. It is to this minority faction of opinion, not to parliament or the public, that he sees himself as answerable.

    Few can claim to have got everything right about this pandemic, but none has been more consistently wrong than the threat-deniers, lockdown-haters, mask-defiers and let-it-rippers. Yet this is the one group to whom the prime minister is never capable of saying “sod this”.

    And it was also "sod this" to border control yet Rawnsley doesn't mention it.

    Perhaps because Rawnsley thinks likewise ?
    Is it just me that thing "Prime Minister wanted to continue to see the Queen as he does every week [but doesn't for over a year]" is the biggest non story of this pandemic?

    Whatever his initial thoughts he clearly chose not to in the end.

    Whenever anyone is facing difficult decisions the ability to play Devils Advocate and end up coming down on the right decision is important.

    Better than just going pigheaded and obstinately down the wrong path - either because you're following your own preferences without listening to reason, or because you're listening unquestioningly to "reason" which is wrong and not challenging it.
    The point is that the PM’s judgement is so often wrong, and he has to be read the riot act by his aides - or have the obvious pointed out to him - before he agrees to do the right thing.
    While I have some sympathies with Mr T's view about Devils Advocacy I don't think the business over the trip to the Palace shows our PM in a very good light, and it's reasonable for a columnist in a Centre-Left newspaper to point it out.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,115
    ydoethur said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    I’m a bad person.
    Why this time?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,316

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    Sounds pretty funny (albeit not for her)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,312
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Right at the beginning of the pandemic… I was told by a very senior figure that there was “a lot of worry” the Queen could be killed by Covid, with incalculable effects on public morale and trust in government.

    While elaborate precautions were put in motion to safeguard the Queen, someone in government did not get the memo. Or he did receive the memo, but couldn’t be arsed to read it. In mid-March of last year, when staff at Number 10 were already falling ill as the virus rampaged around that rabbit-warren building, Boris Johnson told aides that he was going to carry on with his weekly in-person audience with the Queen. He answered protests that this was sensationally reckless by responding: “That’s what I do every Wednesday. Sod this, I’m gonna go and see her.”

    In the initial phase of this crisis, it was “sod this” to attending meetings Cobra because he was too busy dealing with his divorce. Then it was “sod this” to agreeing to a timely first lockdown because that involved accepting how serious the situation had become. Last autumn, it was “sod this” to the scientists when they warned that the disease would accelerate wildly out of control if he didn’t impose a second lockdown. And “sod this” to acting in time to save lives because he had made a baseless promise that the nation could revel through a “normal Christmas”. It was also “sod this” to the fatality rate because the data suggested to him that the median age of those claimed by Covid was 82. “That is above life expectancy,” he flippantly declared. “So get Covid and live longer.” He went on to say: “I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff.” That’s something Number 10 can’t deny because it was recorded in WhatsApp messages.

    Mr Johnson feared a monstering at the hands of the rightwing media and a big revolt by Tory MPs, a chunk of whom turned up in the chamber of the Commons ostentatiously refusing to wear masks. On Mr Cummings’ account, the prime minister regards the Daily Telegraph, for which he once wrote a highly remunerative column, as “my real boss”. That puts everyone else in their place. It is to this minority faction of opinion, not to parliament or the public, that he sees himself as answerable.

    Few can claim to have got everything right about this pandemic, but none has been more consistently wrong than the threat-deniers, lockdown-haters, mask-defiers and let-it-rippers. Yet this is the one group to whom the prime minister is never capable of saying “sod this”.

    And it was also "sod this" to border control yet Rawnsley doesn't mention it.

    Perhaps because Rawnsley thinks likewise ?
    Is it just me that thing "Prime Minister wanted to continue to see the Queen as he does every week [but doesn't for over a year]" is the biggest non story of this pandemic?

    Whatever his initial thoughts he clearly chose not to in the end.

    Whenever anyone is facing difficult decisions the ability to play Devils Advocate and end up coming down on the right decision is important.

    Better than just going pigheaded and obstinately down the wrong path - either because you're following your own preferences without listening to reason, or because you're listening unquestioningly to "reason" which is wrong and not challenging it.
    The point is that the PM’s judgement is so often wrong, and he has to be read the riot act by his aides - or have the obvious pointed out to him - before he agrees to do the right thing.
    Bit like his hero Churchill then.

    And Charles II as well.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,898
    edited July 2021
    kle4 said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    Sounds pretty funny (albeit not for her)
    it was definitely a "gold " kind of celebration. The italian who finished third did a more reduced "silver " celebration thinking she had come second and the peleton then sprinted to a finish thinking bronze was at stake but the winner of that sprint got fourth
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,316
    edited July 2021

    kle4 said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    Sounds pretty funny (albeit not for her)
    it was definitely a "gold " kind of celebration. The italian who finished third did a more reduced "silver " celebration thinking she had come second and the peleton then sprinted to a finish thinking bronze was at stake but the winner of that sprint got fourth
    I don't know cycling from anything, but given the lady who won did so on her own it does seem a bit petty of some others to be whinging about lack of communication, looks like searching for excuses.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,335

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Right at the beginning of the pandemic… I was told by a very senior figure that there was “a lot of worry” the Queen could be killed by Covid, with incalculable effects on public morale and trust in government.

    While elaborate precautions were put in motion to safeguard the Queen, someone in government did not get the memo. Or he did receive the memo, but couldn’t be arsed to read it. In mid-March of last year, when staff at Number 10 were already falling ill as the virus rampaged around that rabbit-warren building, Boris Johnson told aides that he was going to carry on with his weekly in-person audience with the Queen. He answered protests that this was sensationally reckless by responding: “That’s what I do every Wednesday. Sod this, I’m gonna go and see her.”

    In the initial phase of this crisis, it was “sod this” to attending meetings Cobra because he was too busy dealing with his divorce. Then it was “sod this” to agreeing to a timely first lockdown because that involved accepting how serious the situation had become. Last autumn, it was “sod this” to the scientists when they warned that the disease would accelerate wildly out of control if he didn’t impose a second lockdown. And “sod this” to acting in time to save lives because he had made a baseless promise that the nation could revel through a “normal Christmas”. It was also “sod this” to the fatality rate because the data suggested to him that the median age of those claimed by Covid was 82. “That is above life expectancy,” he flippantly declared. “So get Covid and live longer.” He went on to say: “I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff.” That’s something Number 10 can’t deny because it was recorded in WhatsApp messages.

    Mr Johnson feared a monstering at the hands of the rightwing media and a big revolt by Tory MPs, a chunk of whom turned up in the chamber of the Commons ostentatiously refusing to wear masks. On Mr Cummings’ account, the prime minister regards the Daily Telegraph, for which he once wrote a highly remunerative column, as “my real boss”. That puts everyone else in their place. It is to this minority faction of opinion, not to parliament or the public, that he sees himself as answerable.

    Few can claim to have got everything right about this pandemic, but none has been more consistently wrong than the threat-deniers, lockdown-haters, mask-defiers and let-it-rippers. Yet this is the one group to whom the prime minister is never capable of saying “sod this”.

    And it was also "sod this" to border control yet Rawnsley doesn't mention it.

    Perhaps because Rawnsley thinks likewise ?
    Is it just me that thing "Prime Minister wanted to continue to see the Queen as he does every week [but doesn't for over a year]" is the biggest non story of this pandemic?

    Whatever his initial thoughts he clearly chose not to in the end.

    Whenever anyone is facing difficult decisions the ability to play Devils Advocate and end up coming down on the right decision is important.

    Better than just going pigheaded and obstinately down the wrong path - either because you're following your own preferences without listening to reason, or because you're listening unquestioningly to "reason" which is wrong and not challenging it.
    The point is that the PM’s judgement is so often wrong, and he has to be read the riot act by his aides - or have the obvious pointed out to him - before he agrees to do the right thing.
    While I have some sympathies with Mr T's view about Devils Advocacy I don't think the business over the trip to the Palace shows our PM in a very good light, and it's reasonable for a columnist in a Centre-Left newspaper to point it out.
    Especially since he subsequently contracted Covid and in a parallel universe somewhere probably has killed the Queen.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,150
    edited July 2021

    kle4 said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    Sounds pretty funny (albeit not for her)
    it was definitely a "gold " kind of celebration. The italian who finished third did a more reduced "silver " celebration thinking she had come second and the peleton then sprinted to a finish thinking bronze was at stake but the winner of that sprint got fourth
    Not actually correct I think (re: the sprint). I'm pretty sure 4 had already finished by then.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,898
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    Sounds pretty funny (albeit not for her)
    it was definitely a "gold " kind of celebration. The italian who finished third did a more reduced "silver " celebration thinking she had come second and the peleton then sprinted to a finish thinking bronze was at stake but the winner of that sprint got fourth
    I don't know cycling from anything, but given the lady who won did so on her own it does seem a bit petty of some others to be whinging about lack of communication, looks like searching for excuses.
    I just enjoyed the comedy of it !
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,335

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Right at the beginning of the pandemic… I was told by a very senior figure that there was “a lot of worry” the Queen could be killed by Covid, with incalculable effects on public morale and trust in government.

    While elaborate precautions were put in motion to safeguard the Queen, someone in government did not get the memo. Or he did receive the memo, but couldn’t be arsed to read it. In mid-March of last year, when staff at Number 10 were already falling ill as the virus rampaged around that rabbit-warren building, Boris Johnson told aides that he was going to carry on with his weekly in-person audience with the Queen. He answered protests that this was sensationally reckless by responding: “That’s what I do every Wednesday. Sod this, I’m gonna go and see her.”

    In the initial phase of this crisis, it was “sod this” to attending meetings Cobra because he was too busy dealing with his divorce. Then it was “sod this” to agreeing to a timely first lockdown because that involved accepting how serious the situation had become. Last autumn, it was “sod this” to the scientists when they warned that the disease would accelerate wildly out of control if he didn’t impose a second lockdown. And “sod this” to acting in time to save lives because he had made a baseless promise that the nation could revel through a “normal Christmas”. It was also “sod this” to the fatality rate because the data suggested to him that the median age of those claimed by Covid was 82. “That is above life expectancy,” he flippantly declared. “So get Covid and live longer.” He went on to say: “I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff.” That’s something Number 10 can’t deny because it was recorded in WhatsApp messages.

    Mr Johnson feared a monstering at the hands of the rightwing media and a big revolt by Tory MPs, a chunk of whom turned up in the chamber of the Commons ostentatiously refusing to wear masks. On Mr Cummings’ account, the prime minister regards the Daily Telegraph, for which he once wrote a highly remunerative column, as “my real boss”. That puts everyone else in their place. It is to this minority faction of opinion, not to parliament or the public, that he sees himself as answerable.

    Few can claim to have got everything right about this pandemic, but none has been more consistently wrong than the threat-deniers, lockdown-haters, mask-defiers and let-it-rippers. Yet this is the one group to whom the prime minister is never capable of saying “sod this”.

    And it was also "sod this" to border control yet Rawnsley doesn't mention it.

    Perhaps because Rawnsley thinks likewise ?
    Is it just me that thing "Prime Minister wanted to continue to see the Queen as he does every week [but doesn't for over a year]" is the biggest non story of this pandemic?

    Whatever his initial thoughts he clearly chose not to in the end.

    Whenever anyone is facing difficult decisions the ability to play Devils Advocate and end up coming down on the right decision is important.

    Better than just going pigheaded and obstinately down the wrong path - either because you're following your own preferences without listening to reason, or because you're listening unquestioningly to "reason" which is wrong and not challenging it.
    The point is that the PM’s judgement is so often wrong, and he has to be read the riot act by his aides - or have the obvious pointed out to him - before he agrees to do the right thing.
    Bit like his hero Churchill then.

    And Charles II as well.
    Churchill was wrong on almost everything, apart from the big question of whether Hitler’s Germany presented a threat.

    So you’re right, except that Johnson has yet to be found right on anything world changing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,991

    ydoethur said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    I’m a bad person.
    Why this time?
    Because I laughed, which is a bit mean of me.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    edited July 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Heavy bloody rain and very dark in outer east London right now - have to turn on my living room lights at 4pm in July!

    Can some of it - not all of it, obvs - come up to the Midlands? The weather’s been drier than my sense of humour for the last ten days and my garden looks thirsty.
    Today has been heavy at times but persistent rain which is great for my Sussex garden....
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 3,884

    On Sunday 25 July, 29,173 new cases were reported across the UK.

    Apparently PHE Windows XP computer is still broken for the rest of the data.

    That's lower case number than 2 Sundays ago.

    Because of technical difficulties in processing England deaths data, today's update is delayed.

    I wish they would update the cases now and the deaths later as necessary. Its not as if some data isn't reported in any case during the weekend.

    That's two consecutive days lower than two weeks ago.

    Very promising but we will have to see the effect of last week's restriction reduction in next week's numbers.

    Even so with millions more vaccine doses effective and hundreds of thousands more with acquired immunity than two weeks ago the situation is much safer.
    I make that around 27,434 in England (from 44,777 last Sunday).
    Very encouraging.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,150
    ydoethur said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    I’m a bad person.
    I still reckon the Dutch silver will have been pretty happy - many will recall what happened to her in 2016 when she was leading and had a horrifying crash on the descent.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    My personal view is that Starmer will do a lot better than people think, by virtue of the fact he isn't Jeremy Corbyn - and because he's quietly putting into place a lot of people and processes that will lead to good outcomes.

    260 seats is the worst I think he will do, which if true probably isn't enough to be PM but will mean his successor will be able to form a government with a much smaller swing. I think if he's lucky and the Lib Dems have a good night, 270+ would probably be enough to form a government and push through PR (which is frankly what I want at this point).

    I also believe his one unique selling point is his appeal to Lib Dem voters, which is something few Labour leaders have done recently. We've seen now on two occasions, tactical voting.

    260 seats might be enough - assuming the SNP have circa 40 with the LDs on circa 15. Plaid plus Green plus SDLP /Alliance should be 6 or so in total. 322 non-Tory MPs - before even considering the DUP - could well be sufficient to block a minority Tory government.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,115

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    Sounds pretty funny (albeit not for her)
    it was definitely a "gold " kind of celebration. The italian who finished third did a more reduced "silver " celebration thinking she had come second and the peleton then sprinted to a finish thinking bronze was at stake but the winner of that sprint got fourth
    I don't know cycling from anything, but given the lady who won did so on her own it does seem a bit petty of some others to be whinging about lack of communication, looks like searching for excuses.
    I just enjoyed the comedy of it !
    It's over-reliance on technology. Up there with the (probably apocryphal) tale of the Americans inventing an ink which could be used in pens in space, whereas the Russians just used pencils.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,880
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    Sounds pretty funny (albeit not for her)
    it was definitely a "gold " kind of celebration. The italian who finished third did a more reduced "silver " celebration thinking she had come second and the peleton then sprinted to a finish thinking bronze was at stake but the winner of that sprint got fourth
    I don't know cycling from anything, but given the lady who won did so on her own it does seem a bit petty of some others to be whinging about lack of communication, looks like searching for excuses.
    Indeed, winning on your own is surely an olympian spirit type outcome?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,312
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Right at the beginning of the pandemic… I was told by a very senior figure that there was “a lot of worry” the Queen could be killed by Covid, with incalculable effects on public morale and trust in government.

    While elaborate precautions were put in motion to safeguard the Queen, someone in government did not get the memo. Or he did receive the memo, but couldn’t be arsed to read it. In mid-March of last year, when staff at Number 10 were already falling ill as the virus rampaged around that rabbit-warren building, Boris Johnson told aides that he was going to carry on with his weekly in-person audience with the Queen. He answered protests that this was sensationally reckless by responding: “That’s what I do every Wednesday. Sod this, I’m gonna go and see her.”

    In the initial phase of this crisis, it was “sod this” to attending meetings Cobra because he was too busy dealing with his divorce. Then it was “sod this” to agreeing to a timely first lockdown because that involved accepting how serious the situation had become. Last autumn, it was “sod this” to the scientists when they warned that the disease would accelerate wildly out of control if he didn’t impose a second lockdown. And “sod this” to acting in time to save lives because he had made a baseless promise that the nation could revel through a “normal Christmas”. It was also “sod this” to the fatality rate because the data suggested to him that the median age of those claimed by Covid was 82. “That is above life expectancy,” he flippantly declared. “So get Covid and live longer.” He went on to say: “I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff.” That’s something Number 10 can’t deny because it was recorded in WhatsApp messages.

    Mr Johnson feared a monstering at the hands of the rightwing media and a big revolt by Tory MPs, a chunk of whom turned up in the chamber of the Commons ostentatiously refusing to wear masks. On Mr Cummings’ account, the prime minister regards the Daily Telegraph, for which he once wrote a highly remunerative column, as “my real boss”. That puts everyone else in their place. It is to this minority faction of opinion, not to parliament or the public, that he sees himself as answerable.

    Few can claim to have got everything right about this pandemic, but none has been more consistently wrong than the threat-deniers, lockdown-haters, mask-defiers and let-it-rippers. Yet this is the one group to whom the prime minister is never capable of saying “sod this”.

    And it was also "sod this" to border control yet Rawnsley doesn't mention it.

    Perhaps because Rawnsley thinks likewise ?
    Is it just me that thing "Prime Minister wanted to continue to see the Queen as he does every week [but doesn't for over a year]" is the biggest non story of this pandemic?

    Whatever his initial thoughts he clearly chose not to in the end.

    Whenever anyone is facing difficult decisions the ability to play Devils Advocate and end up coming down on the right decision is important.

    Better than just going pigheaded and obstinately down the wrong path - either because you're following your own preferences without listening to reason, or because you're listening unquestioningly to "reason" which is wrong and not challenging it.
    The point is that the PM’s judgement is so often wrong, and he has to be read the riot act by his aides - or have the obvious pointed out to him - before he agrees to do the right thing.
    While I have some sympathies with Mr T's view about Devils Advocacy I don't think the business over the trip to the Palace shows our PM in a very good light, and it's reasonable for a columnist in a Centre-Left newspaper to point it out.
    Especially since he subsequently contracted Covid and in a parallel universe somewhere probably has killed the Queen.
    Given that Charles also caught covid at that time we might have had King William V now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,991
    edited July 2021
    justin124 said:

    My personal view is that Starmer will do a lot better than people think, by virtue of the fact he isn't Jeremy Corbyn - and because he's quietly putting into place a lot of people and processes that will lead to good outcomes.

    260 seats is the worst I think he will do, which if true probably isn't enough to be PM but will mean his successor will be able to form a government with a much smaller swing. I think if he's lucky and the Lib Dems have a good night, 270+ would probably be enough to form a government and push through PR (which is frankly what I want at this point).

    I also believe his one unique selling point is his appeal to Lib Dem voters, which is something few Labour leaders have done recently. We've seen now on two occasions, tactical voting.

    260 seats might be enough - assuming the SNP have circa 40 with the LDs on circa 15. Plaid plus Green plus SDLP /Alliance should be 6 or so in total. 322 non-Tory MPs - before even considering the DUP - could well be sufficient to block a minority Tory government.
    How many are you expecting Plaid to get?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,898

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    Sounds pretty funny (albeit not for her)
    it was definitely a "gold " kind of celebration. The italian who finished third did a more reduced "silver " celebration thinking she had come second and the peleton then sprinted to a finish thinking bronze was at stake but the winner of that sprint got fourth
    I don't know cycling from anything, but given the lady who won did so on her own it does seem a bit petty of some others to be whinging about lack of communication, looks like searching for excuses.
    I just enjoyed the comedy of it !
    It's over-reliance on technology. Up there with the (probably apocryphal) tale of the Americans inventing an ink which could be used in pens in space, whereas the Russians just used pencils.
    yes radios were not allowed in this race. If Question of Sport is around still in 20 years it will be a what happened next . Fair play to the Austrian winner as anyone who can ride out alone for the last 40kms deserves to win but woudl have been the icing on the cake if she said it was part of her plan to effectively go "stealth" and get everyone to forget about her!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,115
    justin124 said:

    My personal view is that Starmer will do a lot better than people think, by virtue of the fact he isn't Jeremy Corbyn - and because he's quietly putting into place a lot of people and processes that will lead to good outcomes.

    260 seats is the worst I think he will do, which if true probably isn't enough to be PM but will mean his successor will be able to form a government with a much smaller swing. I think if he's lucky and the Lib Dems have a good night, 270+ would probably be enough to form a government and push through PR (which is frankly what I want at this point).

    I also believe his one unique selling point is his appeal to Lib Dem voters, which is something few Labour leaders have done recently. We've seen now on two occasions, tactical voting.

    260 seats might be enough - assuming the SNP have circa 40 with the LDs on circa 15. Plaid plus Green plus SDLP /Alliance should be 6 or so in total. 322 non-Tory MPs - before even considering the DUP - could well be sufficient to block a minority Tory government.
    We've discussed before the possible C&S options for a Government after the next elections. SF seems to be the most likely!!!!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,335
    justin124 said:

    My personal view is that Starmer will do a lot better than people think, by virtue of the fact he isn't Jeremy Corbyn - and because he's quietly putting into place a lot of people and processes that will lead to good outcomes.

    260 seats is the worst I think he will do, which if true probably isn't enough to be PM but will mean his successor will be able to form a government with a much smaller swing. I think if he's lucky and the Lib Dems have a good night, 270+ would probably be enough to form a government and push through PR (which is frankly what I want at this point).

    I also believe his one unique selling point is his appeal to Lib Dem voters, which is something few Labour leaders have done recently. We've seen now on two occasions, tactical voting.

    260 seats might be enough - assuming the SNP have circa 40 with the LDs on circa 15. Plaid plus Green plus SDLP /Alliance should be 6 or so in total. 322 non-Tory MPs - before even considering the DUP - could well be sufficient to block a minority Tory government.
    It hangs on how low Johnson can sink in the run-up to an election. Based on recent performance you can’t fault him for not giving it his best shot.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,335

    ydoethur said:

    Heavy bloody rain and very dark in outer east London right now - have to turn on my living room lights at 4pm in July!

    Can some of it - not all of it, obvs - come up to the Midlands? The weather’s been drier than my sense of humour for the last ten days and my garden looks thirsty.
    Today has been heavy at times but persistent rain which is great for my Sussex garden....
    On the island we’ve escaped the rain until today - driving back from the Cotswolds yesterday afternoon I left at 4pm with the car thermometer reading 16C and got back here at nearly 7pm when had risen to above 20. But right now the heavens have opened and it is pouring down.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,396
    While we wait... The case trends data from yesterday. This is done by having a seven day average for each day, and comparing the change day to day...

    image
    image
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,696
    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone noticed how it was almost compulsory to be positive about the 2012 London Olympics, and it's almost compulsory to be negative about this one in Tokyo.

    before 2012 or afterwards? because in the runup, it was painful how negative literally everything about 2012 was...
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,150
    edited July 2021
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    My personal view is that Starmer will do a lot better than people think, by virtue of the fact he isn't Jeremy Corbyn - and because he's quietly putting into place a lot of people and processes that will lead to good outcomes.

    260 seats is the worst I think he will do, which if true probably isn't enough to be PM but will mean his successor will be able to form a government with a much smaller swing. I think if he's lucky and the Lib Dems have a good night, 270+ would probably be enough to form a government and push through PR (which is frankly what I want at this point).

    I also believe his one unique selling point is his appeal to Lib Dem voters, which is something few Labour leaders have done recently. We've seen now on two occasions, tactical voting.

    260 seats might be enough - assuming the SNP have circa 40 with the LDs on circa 15. Plaid plus Green plus SDLP /Alliance should be 6 or so in total. 322 non-Tory MPs - before even considering the DUP - could well be sufficient to block a minority Tory government.
    How many are you expecting Plaid to get?
    3 or 4.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,880

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    Sounds pretty funny (albeit not for her)
    it was definitely a "gold " kind of celebration. The italian who finished third did a more reduced "silver " celebration thinking she had come second and the peleton then sprinted to a finish thinking bronze was at stake but the winner of that sprint got fourth
    I don't know cycling from anything, but given the lady who won did so on her own it does seem a bit petty of some others to be whinging about lack of communication, looks like searching for excuses.
    I just enjoyed the comedy of it !
    It's over-reliance on technology. Up there with the (probably apocryphal) tale of the Americans inventing an ink which could be used in pens in space, whereas the Russians just used pencils.
    An urban myth I am afraid, Both countries used pencils initially, but then both switched to a privately designed space pen at the princely cost of $4 each.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,335
    alex_ said:
    When I moved here one of the things that pissed me off was John Lewis insurance writing to say that my buildings insurance premium would have to double because I lived only a few hundred metres from the sea and they were worried about flooding. Pointing out that, despite being five minutes from the beach, I lived halfway up a very steep hill and that based on the altitude of my house a large part of London would already be underwater before there was any risk of the sea flooding my home made no difference to their computer still saying no.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,880
    edited July 2021
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heavy bloody rain and very dark in outer east London right now - have to turn on my living room lights at 4pm in July!

    Can some of it - not all of it, obvs - come up to the Midlands? The weather’s been drier than my sense of humour for the last ten days and my garden looks thirsty.
    Today has been heavy at times but persistent rain which is great for my Sussex garden....
    On the island we’ve escaped the rain until today - driving back from the Cotswolds yesterday afternoon I left at 4pm with the car thermometer reading 16C and got back here at nearly 7pm when had risen to above 20. But right now the heavens have opened and it is pouring down.
    Things wilting in my garden here and the grass going brown in parts. Lots of soft fruit though. One blackcurrant produced 7kg, and plums looking quite profuse.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,316
    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone noticed how it was almost compulsory to be positive about the 2012 London Olympics, and it's almost compulsory to be negative about this one in Tokyo.

    I don't think compulsory means what you think it means.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,115
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    Sounds pretty funny (albeit not for her)
    it was definitely a "gold " kind of celebration. The italian who finished third did a more reduced "silver " celebration thinking she had come second and the peleton then sprinted to a finish thinking bronze was at stake but the winner of that sprint got fourth
    I don't know cycling from anything, but given the lady who won did so on her own it does seem a bit petty of some others to be whinging about lack of communication, looks like searching for excuses.
    I just enjoyed the comedy of it !
    It's over-reliance on technology. Up there with the (probably apocryphal) tale of the Americans inventing an ink which could be used in pens in space, whereas the Russians just used pencils.
    An urban myth I am afraid, Both countries used pencils initially, but then both switched to a privately designed space pen at the princely cost of $4 each.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/
    I did concede it was 'probably apocryphal'. But thanks for the reference.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,898
    I love Olympic sport - there may be a lot of dodgy things going in within the IOC but the athletes themselves are 99% unspoilt and doing it for the love of competing . I think it is a pity that they have to wear masks at the medals ceremony as it is hardly likely to be the difference between containing covid or not and it may be the one chance they ever get to be on an olympic podium .
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,150
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone noticed how it was almost compulsory to be positive about the 2012 London Olympics, and it's almost compulsory to be negative about this one in Tokyo.

    I don't think compulsory means what you think it means.
    Also there was loads of negativity in the first week of 2012 when medal after expected medal failed to materialise...
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 5,704

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    OT Maths nerd wins stealth cycling gold.

    Anna Kiesenhofer, an amateur rider who studied for a masters in mathematics at Cambridge University and now works as a postdoctoral researcher [in nonlinear partial differential equations] at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, completely outsmarted the field yesterday to win gold in the women’s road race.

    She beat the mighty Dutch team, who most pundits thought invincible. She beat Britain’s best Lizzie Deignan. She beat the best the women’s World Tour could offer. And best of all, she did it without any of them realising.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/25/womens-road-race-tokyo-olympics-2021-cycling-live-great-britain/

    yes watched this and the Dutch lady (who came second) celebrating thinking she had won
    Sounds pretty funny (albeit not for her)
    it was definitely a "gold " kind of celebration. The italian who finished third did a more reduced "silver " celebration thinking she had come second and the peleton then sprinted to a finish thinking bronze was at stake but the winner of that sprint got fourth
    I don't know cycling from anything, but given the lady who won did so on her own it does seem a bit petty of some others to be whinging about lack of communication, looks like searching for excuses.
    I just enjoyed the comedy of it !
    It's over-reliance on technology. Up there with the (probably apocryphal) tale of the Americans inventing an ink which could be used in pens in space, whereas the Russians just used pencils.
    Very much apocryphal, indeed misleading. Pencils are not good in space as graphite is a conductor and you don’t want bits of it floating into the electronics producing short circuits. The “space pens” are real, but were produced by a private company who sell them for a profit.

    https://www.spacepen.com/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,115
    IanB2 said:

    alex_ said:
    When I moved here one of the things that pissed me off was John Lewis insurance writing to say that my buildings insurance premium would have to double because I lived only a few hundred metres from the sea and they were worried about flooding. Pointing out that, despite being five minutes from the beach, I lived halfway up a very steep hill and that based on the altitude of my house a large part of London would already be underwater before there was any risk of the sea flooding my home made no difference to their computer still saying no.
    We've had arguments over that. We don't live too far from a river, which has, in recent memory flooded part of the town. However, the floodwaters never got anywhere near our house and were such an occasion to occur, damage to furniture would be among the least of our worries.
    Half of N Essex would be under water.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,898
    edited July 2021
    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone noticed how it was almost compulsory to be positive about the 2012 London Olympics, and it's almost compulsory to be negative about this one in Tokyo.

    I don't think compulsory means what you think it means.
    Also there was loads of negativity in the first week of 2012 when medal after expected medal failed to materialise...
    I think it was only a couple of days before gold was struck. Although they were weighted more to the later days. Golds are nice but the best thing about London 2012 was the general atmosphere - Contrast with the Euro 2020 final . Also London 2012 had a great mockumentary (2012) which anyone who has ever been involved in a big project could relate to with absurd marketing proposals , over worrying about little things and missing a few elephants in the room.it also had Lord Grantham in
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited July 2021

    I love Olympic sport - there may be a lot of dodgy things going in within the IOC but the athletes themselves are 99% unspoilt and doing it for the love of competing . I think it is a pity that they have to wear masks at the medals ceremony as it is hardly likely to be the difference between containing covid or not and it may be the one chance they ever get to be on an olympic podium .

    I watched the swimming last night and it is all such a load of performative nonsense. They have all been tested a load, but have to have a mask on for the walk out to the event, straight away whipping it off as soon as they are out of camera shot...then the medal ceremony, have to have their mask on, put your own medal around your neck, then they whipped off the masks and all hugged it out on the podium.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,396
    IanB2 said:

    alex_ said:
    When I moved here one of the things that pissed me off was John Lewis insurance writing to say that my buildings insurance premium would have to double because I lived only a few hundred metres from the sea and they were worried about flooding. Pointing out that, despite being five minutes from the beach, I lived halfway up a very steep hill and that based on the altitude of my house a large part of London would already be underwater before there was any risk of the sea flooding my home made no difference to their computer still saying no.
    Then again....

    A chap I knew was asked to look at a project in Wales, half way up a hill side. The client was building a new house on a rocky outcrop, which formed a nice solid base. The chap I knew had a look at the hillside and raised some red flags.....

    Sometime after the house was completed, there was a massive rainstorm. It turned out that the reason it was a rocky outcrop was that a torrent came down the hillside and had stripped the topsoil off the rock. The house was built, essentially, in the middle of dry riverbed....
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,831
    Nice thread TSE, and a pretty straightforward value bet imho. Arguably there are others I'd prefer over the timescale, but the logic behind this one is hard to argue with.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    alex_ said:
    After what's happened recently in Germany and Belgium, that looks like a bit of rainwater and not a flood.

    I hope nobody suffered in it. Best wishes for anyone affected.
  • TresTres Posts: 680
    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone noticed how it was almost compulsory to be positive about the 2012 London Olympics, and it's almost compulsory to be negative about this one in Tokyo.

    I don't think compulsory means what you think it means.
    Also there was loads of negativity in the first week of 2012 when medal after expected medal failed to materialise...
    I think the negativity in the first week of London was from all the pictures of empty seats from events that were supposedly sold out.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,831
    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone noticed how it was almost compulsory to be positive about the 2012 London Olympics, and it's almost compulsory to be negative about this one in Tokyo.

    I don't think compulsory means what you think it means.
    Also there was loads of negativity in the first week of 2012 when medal after expected medal failed to materialise...
    Yes, a great example of hindsight bias. Many people have completely forgotten the negativity in advance of the games and for the first bit.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,150
    edited July 2021
    Tres said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone noticed how it was almost compulsory to be positive about the 2012 London Olympics, and it's almost compulsory to be negative about this one in Tokyo.

    I don't think compulsory means what you think it means.
    Also there was loads of negativity in the first week of 2012 when medal after expected medal failed to materialise...
    I think the negativity in the first week of London was from all the pictures of empty seats from events that were supposedly sold out.
    That as well. And the usual "teething difficulty" reports of people struggling to get past security and into the events.

    Anyway, Japan seems to have been having a bit of early success which is good to see.
This discussion has been closed.