I AM SORRY FOR THAT NASTY REMARK ABOUT THE GERMANS DROWNING
It was - genuinely - a joke, but I understand some did not take it that way, and I apologise to anyone I offended
For the sake of clarity, I have also removed my DVD of "Dambusters", smashed it into tiny pieces with a clawhammer, put the grainy remnants in a bin, and had the bin legally incinerated.
I then gathered the ashes of the incinerated bin containing tiny remnants of the smashed up DVD of "Dambusters", and I Ipoured them all into a sealed leaden urn which was then airlifted to Switzerland and swiftly taken underground where it was torn into fundamental particles in the super-collider at CERN, which means the final atoms are now probably rolling into the Rhine. Ironically.
Easily the most bizarre non apology in human and extra terrestrial history.
No, that's a real apology. I am sorry
The remark was a gag - and I never imagined anyone would see it otherwise. I don't actually "enjoy" watching humans drown
But after my outrage settled I came back and had a look why I was banned and I read that line and I thought Oof, yes, that doesn't look good - if you were a passing visitor to the site, say, and you saw that one sentence you could easily take it literally and think PB is some horrible sewer of slurs and bile. And Mike has to look after the place, and keep it respectable, so he was right to yellow card me and I am genuinely contrite
Given the fact that the government has – as we understand – almost entirely failed to enforce the isolation rule, what on earth makes any think it can enforce the clubbing rule?
That is not to say people won't use the vaxpasses, I'm sure they will, but whether contravention is enforceable is a very different question.
You have doormen on clubs. They love a bit of authoritarianism.
I have been a doorman on a club and I'm sorry to say that is absolutely true. But only to the bellends.
A lot of bellends amongst doormen
Yes true. Most of those who are out of order are a bit heavy handed but as they say, you should walk a mile in their shoes first. A _lot_ of bellends present themselves (Fridays worse than Saturdays...).
I am now able to report from the Covid Freedom Day Front Line AKA the gastropubs of Highgate
Verdict: a disappointing lack of jubilation, or, indeed, Freedom. You weren't allowed to order at the bar, you had to check in at the door, the staff were mostly wearing masks, it was table service only
Almost nothing has changed
Indeed I've just been out shopping in Camden and if anything there seem to be MORE masks, people look even more nervous. for the first time ever I saw someone wearing the full Covid monty: mask, visor and disposable blue nitrile gloves WHILE WALKING DOWN THE STREET
Have we terrified humanity - or at least the British part of it - into some ridiculous, unnecessary dystopia?
Been maskless into tesco, lidl and the fishmongers at Widemouth Bay. In every case people looking twitchy about masklessness but not enough to make something of it.
Couple of Londoners in the pub garden at Crackington Haven shouting their heads off about how they've been pinged and are isolating in their campervan.
Okay, a plea to PBers. Whilst I was out on the school run, my wife reported seeing a small bird fly in through her window. She didn't see where it went. Now, in another room, me and the little 'un have heard two periods of wing flapping over twenty minutes. We *think* we know which part of the room it is in (amongst the little 'uns toys or the TV/DVD area), but we can't find it for love nor money.
If he hadn't heard it as well I'd think I was going crazy. We don't think it was coming from outside.
I AM SORRY FOR THAT NASTY REMARK ABOUT THE GERMANS DROWNING
It was - genuinely - a joke, but I understand some did not take it that way, and I apologise to anyone I offended
For the sake of clarity, I have also removed my DVD of "Dambusters", smashed it into tiny pieces with a clawhammer, put the grainy remnants in a bin, and had the bin legally incinerated.
I then gathered the ashes of the incinerated bin containing tiny remnants of the smashed up DVD of "Dambusters", and I poured them all into a sealed leaden urn which was then airlifted to Switzerland and swiftly taken underground where it was torn into fundamental particles in the super-collider at CERN, which means the final atoms are now probably rolling into the Rhine. Ironically.
Welcome back. I wasn't offended, but it just shows the lack of nuance on the old internet. How was the ordering at the bar?
Vaccine passports for nightclubs are to stop the NHS being overwhelmed, right?
But we are not restricting access at weddings, funerals (and associated wakes), football matches, indoor ice hockey matches, pubs, choirs, churches, concerts (both Debussy and UK Subs), and so on.
And people want to fine and criminalise those people going to nightclubs without the appropriate papers.
Seems sensible to me.
I'm against vaxports on principle.
But in practice, they absolutely do work to encourage people to get jabbed.
If you just want to be practical as opposed to theoretical there's absolutely no reason for consistency and weddings, funerals etc to be the same rules as nightclubs. If a third of the young are refusing the vaccine and almost all of them end up going for it as its needed for clubs and travel then the system has worked as intended, even if its inconsistent.
Its like the Swiss Cheese model for risk assessment. In practice it works, even if in principle its a mess.
This is increasingly my view. We need to encourage high vaccine take-up, because given the infectiousness of Delta, getting 90+% of adults, plus essentially all teenagers, vaccinated is required for us to get over this thing.
Younger people are far more likely to engage in less socially distanced activities (like pubs, clubs etc.). They are therefore the group that it is most important to get jabbed.
But the data is that these groups are not getting jabbed at a rapid pace. It is therefore in the interests of all that we encourage vaccine take-up by making participation in certain events dependent on presentation of a Vaxport.
This is a public health issue. We have no problems in requiring restaurants not to spread salmonella, it doesn't seem unreasonable that we put in measures to stop people spreading Covid.
Do we not achieve the same end by allowing the unvaccinated to catch the disease and get their antibodies that way?
The simple truth is that for the vast majority of clubbers, a dose of covid will be indistinguishable from a hangover or comedown.
I am now able to report from the Covid Freedom Day Front Line AKA the gastropubs of Highgate
Verdict: a disappointing lack of jubilation, or, indeed, Freedom. You weren't allowed to order at the bar, you had to check in at the door, the staff were mostly wearing masks, it was table service only
Almost nothing has changed
Indeed I've just been out shopping in Camden and if anything there seem to be MORE masks, people look even more nervous. for the first time ever I saw someone wearing the full Covid monty: mask, visor and disposable blue nitrile gloves WHILE WALKING DOWN THE STREET
Have we terrified humanity - or at least the British part of it - into some ridiculous, unnecessary dystopia?
First, welcome back.
Second, well, perhaps the notion of ordering at the bar and hanging round there like an S.K Tremayne book in a WH Smith bargain book bin isn't as popular as some on here think.
Anecdotal warning - in my limited social circle of inadequates, reprobates and malcontents, there is almost universal support for finding a table and using an app to order and pay. It's just so much more civilised than a scrum down and pretending not to be invisible but chacun a son gout as someone else once said.
East Ham isn't Camden (in so many aspects) but yes, there's still a lot of mask wearing. Are those wearing the masks (especially older people) the unvaccinated? Who needs a vaxport - just look for old people with masks - perhaps not.
We crossed that Rubicon of Absurdity (a good title for a book methinks?) some time ago.
I AM SORRY FOR THAT NASTY REMARK ABOUT THE GERMANS DROWNING
It was - genuinely - a joke, but I understand some did not take it that way, and I apologise to anyone I offended
For the sake of clarity, I have also removed my DVD of "Dambusters", smashed it into tiny pieces with a clawhammer, put the grainy remnants in a bin, and had the bin legally incinerated.
I then gathered the ashes of the incinerated bin containing tiny remnants of the smashed up DVD of "Dambusters", and I poured them all into a sealed leaden urn which was then airlifted to Switzerland and swiftly taken underground where it was torn into fundamental particles in the super-collider at CERN, which means the final atoms are now probably rolling into the Rhine. Ironically.
And we were so looking forward to seeing what the trade of your next reincarnation would be?
I toyed with becoming a Gelato-Flavourist of Color from Gospel Oak, but I am glad and grateful to be back as me, Leon the Flint Knapper and I promise never to be mean about anyone or anything ever again, or at least for a good few weeks hours
Given the fact that the government has – as we understand – almost entirely failed to enforce the isolation rule, what on earth makes any think it can enforce the clubbing rule?
That is not to say people won't use the vaxpasses, I'm sure they will, but whether contravention is enforceable is a very different question.
You have doormen on clubs. They love a bit of authoritarianism.
I have been a doorman on a club and I'm sorry to say that is absolutely true. But only to the bellends.
A lot of bellends amongst doormen
Yes true. Most of those who are out of order are a bit heavy handed but as they say, you should walk a mile in their shoes first. A _lot_ of bellends present themselves (Fridays worse than Saturdays...).
Quite true, I have met plenty of doormen that are fine people sadly I have met a lot that aren't including one memorable individual that would find a reason to chuck out guys who were with women he fancied. Thankfully he didnt last long
Vaccine passports for nightclubs are to stop the NHS being overwhelmed, right?
But we are not restricting access at weddings, funerals (and associated wakes), football matches, indoor ice hockey matches, pubs, choirs, churches, concerts (both Debussy and UK Subs), and so on.
And people want to fine and criminalise those people going to nightclubs without the appropriate papers.
Seems sensible to me.
I'm against vaxports on principle.
But in practice, they absolutely do work to encourage people to get jabbed.
If you just want to be practical as opposed to theoretical there's absolutely no reason for consistency and weddings, funerals etc to be the same rules as nightclubs. If a third of the young are refusing the vaccine and almost all of them end up going for it as its needed for clubs and travel then the system has worked as intended, even if its inconsistent.
Its like the Swiss Cheese model for risk assessment. In practice it works, even if in principle its a mess.
This is increasingly my view. We need to encourage high vaccine take-up, because given the infectiousness of Delta, getting 90+% of adults, plus essentially all teenagers, vaccinated is required for us to get over this thing.
Younger people are far more likely to engage in less socially distanced activities (like pubs, clubs etc.). They are therefore the group that it is most important to get jabbed.
But the data is that these groups are not getting jabbed at a rapid pace. It is therefore in the interests of all that we encourage vaccine take-up by making participation in certain events dependent on presentation of a Vaxport.
This is a public health issue. We have no problems in requiring restaurants not to spread salmonella, it doesn't seem unreasonable that we put in measures to stop people spreading Covid.
Do we not achieve the same end by allowing the unvaccinated to catch the disease and get their antibodies that way?
The simple truth is that for the vast majority of clubbers, a dose of covid will be indistinguishable from a hangover or comedown.
When my just graduated nephew got Covid he said it was difficult to distinguish the symptoms on account of the beer he had consumed the previous evening.
It will piss even more off if they try to implement it....imagine long queues building up outside pubs. restaurants, nightclubs,gigs ...."Sorry cant let you in because cant verify your status as the servers are down"
Very forseeable so the gov't will of course ensure the server capacity is increased prior to it being a condition
You can't increase the capacity that much, botnets are cheap to hire and IoT has provide many more millions of devices to run them on. Plus when did you last see a competent government it operation
The vaccine passport is on the users phone. No need for the nightclub to have computer access, just a doorman who knows what to look for. Same when you fly etc*. So no government IT to bring down.
*One of our nurses was in Spain a couple of weeks back. No one checked either way.
No way will Mr Bill Jones' screenshotted double vaccine confirmation ever be used. A million times.
I can advise that fake vaccine certification is already changing hands for £500 a pop.
There are some idiots around, aren't there? Get vaccinated, save yourself £500.
And a fine and criminal record.
You're a LibDem you say?
Yes, but I don't write policy.
I think that deliberately falsifying vaccine documentation is worthy of a fine and criminal record.
So first off you disagree with what is a flagship LibDem policy. Arguably the only LibDem policy (that anyone has heard of anyway).
And when did a vaccine document become governed by law. What is that law, I wonder? Attending a nightclub while unvaccinated? What do you suggest?
I would say that using a fake vaxxport to enter premises is obtaining services by deception.
It would be better if people behaved responsibly rather than recklessly spread their germs, but clearly many in our country are too selfish to do so.
I am now able to report from the Covid Freedom Day Front Line AKA the gastropubs of Highgate
Verdict: a disappointing lack of jubilation, or, indeed, Freedom. You weren't allowed to order at the bar, you had to check in at the door, the staff were mostly wearing masks, it was table service only
Almost nothing has changed
Indeed I've just been out shopping in Camden and if anything there seem to be MORE masks, people look even more nervous. for the first time ever I saw someone wearing the full Covid monty: mask, visor and disposable blue nitrile gloves WHILE WALKING DOWN THE STREET
Have we terrified humanity - or at least the British part of it - into some ridiculous, unnecessary dystopia?
First, welcome back.
Second, well, perhaps the notion of ordering at the bar and hanging round there like an S.K Tremayne book in a WH Smith bargain book bin isn't as popular as some on here think.
Anecdotal warning - in my limited social circle of inadequates, reprobates and malcontents, there is almost universal support for finding a table and using an app to order and pay. It's just so much more civilised than a scrum down and pretending not to be invisible but chacun a son gout as someone else once said.
East Ham isn't Camden (in so many aspects) but yes, there's still a lot of mask wearing. Are those wearing the masks (especially older people) the unvaccinated? Who needs a vaxport - just look for old people with masks - perhaps not.
We crossed that Rubicon of Absurdity (a good title for a book methinks?) some time ago.
Last Thursday to settle arguments over what we wanted to eat we went to the Food Pit at Durham which is a number of street food vendors with tables.
Its the only time I would have willingly gone round and ordered at each individual vendor as 4 different orders on your phone (all paid for individually) is blooming painful.
I am now able to report from the Covid Freedom Day Front Line AKA the gastropubs of Highgate
Verdict: a disappointing lack of jubilation, or, indeed, Freedom. You weren't allowed to order at the bar, you had to check in at the door, the staff were mostly wearing masks, it was table service only
Almost nothing has changed
Indeed I've just been out shopping in Camden and if anything there seem to be MORE masks, people look even more nervous. for the first time ever I saw someone wearing the full Covid monty: mask, visor and disposable blue nitrile gloves WHILE WALKING DOWN THE STREET
Have we terrified humanity - or at least the British part of it - into some ridiculous, unnecessary dystopia?
At our school pick-up yesterday, 80-90% of parents were wearing masks. This afternoon; about half. It'll be interesting to see if this keeps reducing in the next two days before the end of term.
That's encouraging
I took my mask off when I was shopping, though I had it ready
It took a bit of nerve seeing as 90-95% of people ARE masked around here
We cannot let masks become some permanent feature of society. They are hideous and desolating. You seldom see a human smile, that cheerful gaze from a stranger which can lift your heart. So sad, and really bad for kids who need reassurance
It will piss even more off if they try to implement it....imagine long queues building up outside pubs. restaurants, nightclubs,gigs ...."Sorry cant let you in because cant verify your status as the servers are down"
Very forseeable so the gov't will of course ensure the server capacity is increased prior to it being a condition
You can't increase the capacity that much, botnets are cheap to hire and IoT has provide many more millions of devices to run them on. Plus when did you last see a competent government it operation
The vaccine passport is on the users phone. No need for the nightclub to have computer access, just a doorman who knows what to look for. Same when you fly etc*. So no government IT to bring down.
*One of our nurses was in Spain a couple of weeks back. No one checked either way.
No way will Mr Bill Jones' screenshotted double vaccine confirmation ever be used. A million times.
I can advise that fake vaccine certification is already changing hands for £500 a pop.
There are some idiots around, aren't there? Get vaccinated, save yourself £500.
And a fine and criminal record.
You're a LibDem you say?
Yes, but I don't write policy.
I think that deliberately falsifying vaccine documentation is worthy of a fine and criminal record.
So first off you disagree with what is a flagship LibDem policy. Arguably the only LibDem policy (that anyone has heard of anyway).
And when did a vaccine document become governed by law. What is that law, I wonder? Attending a nightclub while unvaccinated? What do you suggest?
It will piss even more off if they try to implement it....imagine long queues building up outside pubs. restaurants, nightclubs,gigs ...."Sorry cant let you in because cant verify your status as the servers are down"
Very forseeable so the gov't will of course ensure the server capacity is increased prior to it being a condition
You can't increase the capacity that much, botnets are cheap to hire and IoT has provide many more millions of devices to run them on. Plus when did you last see a competent government it operation
The vaccine passport is on the users phone. No need for the nightclub to have computer access, just a doorman who knows what to look for. Same when you fly etc*. So no government IT to bring down.
*One of our nurses was in Spain a couple of weeks back. No one checked either way.
No way will Mr Bill Jones' screenshotted double vaccine confirmation ever be used. A million times.
I can advise that fake vaccine certification is already changing hands for £500 a pop.
There are some idiots around, aren't there? Get vaccinated, save yourself £500.
And a fine and criminal record.
You're a LibDem you say?
Yes, but I don't write policy.
I think that deliberately falsifying vaccine documentation is worthy of a fine and criminal record.
So first off you disagree with what is a flagship LibDem policy. Arguably the only LibDem policy (that anyone has heard of anyway).
And when did a vaccine document become governed by law. What is that law, I wonder? Attending a nightclub while unvaccinated? What do you suggest?
I would say that using a fake vaxxport to enter premises is obtaining services by deception.
It would be better if people behaved responsibly rather than recklessly spread their germs, but clearly many in our country are too selfish to do so.
So how am I obtaining services by deception if I enter with a fake vaxport. I am fully jabbed
It will piss even more off if they try to implement it....imagine long queues building up outside pubs. restaurants, nightclubs,gigs ...."Sorry cant let you in because cant verify your status as the servers are down"
Very forseeable so the gov't will of course ensure the server capacity is increased prior to it being a condition
You can't increase the capacity that much, botnets are cheap to hire and IoT has provide many more millions of devices to run them on. Plus when did you last see a competent government it operation
The vaccine passport is on the users phone. No need for the nightclub to have computer access, just a doorman who knows what to look for. Same when you fly etc*. So no government IT to bring down.
*One of our nurses was in Spain a couple of weeks back. No one checked either way.
No way will Mr Bill Jones' screenshotted double vaccine confirmation ever be used. A million times.
I can advise that fake vaccine certification is already changing hands for £500 a pop.
There are some idiots around, aren't there? Get vaccinated, save yourself £500.
And a fine and criminal record.
You're a LibDem you say?
Yes, but I don't write policy.
I think that deliberately falsifying vaccine documentation is worthy of a fine and criminal record.
So first off you disagree with what is a flagship LibDem policy. Arguably the only LibDem policy (that anyone has heard of anyway).
And when did a vaccine document become governed by law. What is that law, I wonder? Attending a nightclub while unvaccinated? What do you suggest?
It will piss even more off if they try to implement it....imagine long queues building up outside pubs. restaurants, nightclubs,gigs ...."Sorry cant let you in because cant verify your status as the servers are down"
Very forseeable so the gov't will of course ensure the server capacity is increased prior to it being a condition
You can't increase the capacity that much, botnets are cheap to hire and IoT has provide many more millions of devices to run them on. Plus when did you last see a competent government it operation
The vaccine passport is on the users phone. No need for the nightclub to have computer access, just a doorman who knows what to look for. Same when you fly etc*. So no government IT to bring down.
*One of our nurses was in Spain a couple of weeks back. No one checked either way.
No way will Mr Bill Jones' screenshotted double vaccine confirmation ever be used. A million times.
I can advise that fake vaccine certification is already changing hands for £500 a pop.
There are some idiots around, aren't there? Get vaccinated, save yourself £500.
And a fine and criminal record.
You're a LibDem you say?
Yes, but I don't write policy.
I think that deliberately falsifying vaccine documentation is worthy of a fine and criminal record.
So first off you disagree with what is a flagship LibDem policy. Arguably the only LibDem policy (that anyone has heard of anyway).
And when did a vaccine document become governed by law. What is that law, I wonder? Attending a nightclub while unvaccinated? What do you suggest?
I would say that using a fake vaxxport to enter premises is obtaining services by deception.
It would be better if people behaved responsibly rather than recklessly spread their germs, but clearly many in our country are too selfish to do so.
Would you give 17 year olds who manage to get served at pubs a criminal record?
If a girl wears lots of make up and dresses older so she can get served, is that obtaining services by deception?
I am now able to report from the Covid Freedom Day Front Line AKA the gastropubs of Highgate
Verdict: a disappointing lack of jubilation, or, indeed, Freedom. You weren't allowed to order at the bar, you had to check in at the door, the staff were mostly wearing masks, it was table service only
Almost nothing has changed
Indeed I've just been out shopping in Camden and if anything there seem to be MORE masks, people look even more nervous. for the first time ever I saw someone wearing the full Covid monty: mask, visor and disposable blue nitrile gloves WHILE WALKING DOWN THE STREET
Have we terrified humanity - or at least the British part of it - into some ridiculous, unnecessary dystopia?
Maybe you could do another report from a mostly working-class area to see if there are any differences. Basildon or Harlow for example.
I am now able to report from the Covid Freedom Day Front Line AKA the gastropubs of Highgate
Verdict: a disappointing lack of jubilation, or, indeed, Freedom. You weren't allowed to order at the bar, you had to check in at the door, the staff were mostly wearing masks, it was table service only
Almost nothing has changed
Indeed I've just been out shopping in Camden and if anything there seem to be MORE masks, people look even more nervous. for the first time ever I saw someone wearing the full Covid monty: mask, visor and disposable blue nitrile gloves WHILE WALKING DOWN THE STREET
Have we terrified humanity - or at least the British part of it - into some ridiculous, unnecessary dystopia?
It will be interesting to see in the coming months how the economy performs in these conditions.
Me too but in the deepest, darkest part of suburban middle class North London (with my dad) so I'm not sure what to expect. He's been saying people are fairly lax and pubs were already doing bar service last week.
Given the fact that the government has – as we understand – almost entirely failed to enforce the isolation rule, what on earth makes any think it can enforce the clubbing rule?
That is not to say people won't use the vaxpasses, I'm sure they will, but whether contravention is enforceable is a very different question.
You have doormen on clubs. They love a bit of authoritarianism.
I have been a doorman on a club and I'm sorry to say that is absolutely true. But only to the bellends.
A lot of bellends amongst doormen
Yes true. Most of those who are out of order are a bit heavy handed but as they say, you should walk a mile in their shoes first. A _lot_ of bellends present themselves (Fridays worse than Saturdays...).
Quite true, I have met plenty of doormen that are fine people sadly I have met a lot that aren't including one memorable individual that would find a reason to chuck out guys who were with women he fancied. Thankfully he didnt last long
Thing is, as a doorman, you quite fancy yourself to start with, plus you have your mates around you (I used to do it with people from my boxing club), plus you are stone cold sober, plus as a figure of authority and a handy geezer you believe yourself to be immediately fanciable by the opposite sex in your opinion, plus you spend much of the evening standing in blokes' faces and usually watching them back down, and finally you know that it would take quite a coordinated approach to get the better of you all.
Naturally all that breeds some degree of arrogant gitosity.
I am now able to report from the Covid Freedom Day Front Line AKA the gastropubs of Highgate
Verdict: a disappointing lack of jubilation, or, indeed, Freedom. You weren't allowed to order at the bar, you had to check in at the door, the staff were mostly wearing masks, it was table service only
Almost nothing has changed
Indeed I've just been out shopping in Camden and if anything there seem to be MORE masks, people look even more nervous. for the first time ever I saw someone wearing the full Covid monty: mask, visor and disposable blue nitrile gloves WHILE WALKING DOWN THE STREET
Have we terrified humanity - or at least the British part of it - into some ridiculous, unnecessary dystopia?
At our school pick-up yesterday, 80-90% of parents were wearing masks. This afternoon; about half. It'll be interesting to see if this keeps reducing in the next two days before the end of term.
That's encouraging
I took my mask off when I was shopping, though I had it ready
It took a bit of nerve seeing as 90-95% of people ARE masked around here
We cannot let masks become some permanent feature of society. They are hideous and desolating. You seldom see a human smile, that cheerful gaze from a stranger which can lift your heart. So sad, and really bad for kids who need reassurance
It will piss even more off if they try to implement it....imagine long queues building up outside pubs. restaurants, nightclubs,gigs ...."Sorry cant let you in because cant verify your status as the servers are down"
Very forseeable so the gov't will of course ensure the server capacity is increased prior to it being a condition
You can't increase the capacity that much, botnets are cheap to hire and IoT has provide many more millions of devices to run them on. Plus when did you last see a competent government it operation
The vaccine passport is on the users phone. No need for the nightclub to have computer access, just a doorman who knows what to look for. Same when you fly etc*. So no government IT to bring down.
*One of our nurses was in Spain a couple of weeks back. No one checked either way.
No way will Mr Bill Jones' screenshotted double vaccine confirmation ever be used. A million times.
I can advise that fake vaccine certification is already changing hands for £500 a pop.
There are some idiots around, aren't there? Get vaccinated, save yourself £500.
And a fine and criminal record.
You're a LibDem you say?
Yes, but I don't write policy.
I think that deliberately falsifying vaccine documentation is worthy of a fine and criminal record.
So first off you disagree with what is a flagship LibDem policy. Arguably the only LibDem policy (that anyone has heard of anyway).
And when did a vaccine document become governed by law. What is that law, I wonder? Attending a nightclub while unvaccinated? What do you suggest?
I would say that using a fake vaxxport to enter premises is obtaining services by deception.
It would be better if people behaved responsibly rather than recklessly spread their germs, but clearly many in our country are too selfish to do so.
Just out of interest, as a LibDem do you feel any twang at all about the liberal element of this policy a la LibDem's pronouncements on it?
I am now able to report from the Covid Freedom Day Front Line AKA the gastropubs of Highgate
Verdict: a disappointing lack of jubilation, or, indeed, Freedom. You weren't allowed to order at the bar, you had to check in at the door, the staff were mostly wearing masks, it was table service only
Almost nothing has changed
Indeed I've just been out shopping in Camden and if anything there seem to be MORE masks, people look even more nervous. for the first time ever I saw someone wearing the full Covid monty: mask, visor and disposable blue nitrile gloves WHILE WALKING DOWN THE STREET
Have we terrified humanity - or at least the British part of it - into some ridiculous, unnecessary dystopia?
At our school pick-up yesterday, 80-90% of parents were wearing masks. This afternoon; about half. It'll be interesting to see if this keeps reducing in the next two days before the end of term.
That's encouraging
I took my mask off when I was shopping, though I had it ready
It took a bit of nerve seeing as 90-95% of people ARE masked around here
We cannot let masks become some permanent feature of society. They are hideous and desolating. You seldom see a human smile, that cheerful gaze from a stranger which can lift your heart. So sad, and really bad for kids who need reassurance
I am now able to report from the Covid Freedom Day Front Line AKA the gastropubs of Highgate
Verdict: a disappointing lack of jubilation, or, indeed, Freedom. You weren't allowed to order at the bar, you had to check in at the door, the staff were mostly wearing masks, it was table service only
Almost nothing has changed
Indeed I've just been out shopping in Camden and if anything there seem to be MORE masks, people look even more nervous. for the first time ever I saw someone wearing the full Covid monty: mask, visor and disposable blue nitrile gloves WHILE WALKING DOWN THE STREET
Have we terrified humanity - or at least the British part of it - into some ridiculous, unnecessary dystopia?
Maybe you could do another report from a working-class area to see if there any differences. Basildon or Harlow for example.
Camden - down by the Tube - really isn't posh in any sense. It is all of humankind, rich, poor, middling, homeless, trustafarian, Muslim, atheist, Goth, emo, Gen X Gen Z Gen Lambda, 50-something flint knappers buying laksa ingredients
This is a big reason I am attached to it, I like the grittiness and the melee (tho I am glad I live at the slightly posher end, we are all human)
So Camden is probably quite representative - at least of London as a whole (and Highgate felt very similar). Dunno about the UK
It will piss even more off if they try to implement it....imagine long queues building up outside pubs. restaurants, nightclubs,gigs ...."Sorry cant let you in because cant verify your status as the servers are down"
Very forseeable so the gov't will of course ensure the server capacity is increased prior to it being a condition
You can't increase the capacity that much, botnets are cheap to hire and IoT has provide many more millions of devices to run them on. Plus when did you last see a competent government it operation
The vaccine passport is on the users phone. No need for the nightclub to have computer access, just a doorman who knows what to look for. Same when you fly etc*. So no government IT to bring down.
*One of our nurses was in Spain a couple of weeks back. No one checked either way.
No way will Mr Bill Jones' screenshotted double vaccine confirmation ever be used. A million times.
I can advise that fake vaccine certification is already changing hands for £500 a pop.
There are some idiots around, aren't there? Get vaccinated, save yourself £500.
And a fine and criminal record.
You're a LibDem you say?
Yes, but I don't write policy.
I think that deliberately falsifying vaccine documentation is worthy of a fine and criminal record.
So first off you disagree with what is a flagship LibDem policy. Arguably the only LibDem policy (that anyone has heard of anyway).
And when did a vaccine document become governed by law. What is that law, I wonder? Attending a nightclub while unvaccinated? What do you suggest?
I would say that using a fake vaxxport to enter premises is obtaining services by deception.
It would be better if people behaved responsibly rather than recklessly spread their germs, but clearly many in our country are too selfish to do so.
Just out of interest, as a LibDem do you feel any twang at all about the liberal element of this policy a la LibDem's pronouncements on it?
He is a lib dem like North korea the democrat part of the name is a lie so is the liberal
I am now able to report from the Covid Freedom Day Front Line AKA the gastropubs of Highgate
Verdict: a disappointing lack of jubilation, or, indeed, Freedom. You weren't allowed to order at the bar, you had to check in at the door, the staff were mostly wearing masks, it was table service only
Almost nothing has changed
Indeed I've just been out shopping in Camden and if anything there seem to be MORE masks, people look even more nervous. for the first time ever I saw someone wearing the full Covid monty: mask, visor and disposable blue nitrile gloves WHILE WALKING DOWN THE STREET
Have we terrified humanity - or at least the British part of it - into some ridiculous, unnecessary dystopia?
First, welcome back.
Second, well, perhaps the notion of ordering at the bar and hanging round there like an S.K Tremayne book in a WH Smith bargain book bin isn't as popular as some on here think.
Anecdotal warning - in my limited social circle of inadequates, reprobates and malcontents, there is almost universal support for finding a table and using an app to order and pay. It's just so much more civilised than a scrum down and pretending not to be invisible but chacun a son gout as someone else once said.
East Ham isn't Camden (in so many aspects) but yes, there's still a lot of mask wearing. Are those wearing the masks (especially older people) the unvaccinated? Who needs a vaxport - just look for old people with masks - perhaps not.
We crossed that Rubicon of Absurdity (a good title for a book methinks?) some time ago.
Round my way, shops and cafes seem at least as quiet as they were last week. Mask-wearing seems more common than it was last week.
Personally, I'm wearing a mask despite being double jabbed. Here's my (more-or-less-absurd) rationale. Because I have school-age kids, that puts me in a "rather likely to get exposed to the plague" group, and (being double jabbed) any infection is likely to be asymptomatic. I've also got hay fever, so I'm attempting to keep my regular and violent sneezes broadly to myself.
I am now able to report from the Covid Freedom Day Front Line AKA the gastropubs of Highgate
Verdict: a disappointing lack of jubilation, or, indeed, Freedom. You weren't allowed to order at the bar, you had to check in at the door, the staff were mostly wearing masks, it was table service only
Almost nothing has changed
Indeed I've just been out shopping in Camden and if anything there seem to be MORE masks, people look even more nervous. for the first time ever I saw someone wearing the full Covid monty: mask, visor and disposable blue nitrile gloves WHILE WALKING DOWN THE STREET
Have we terrified humanity - or at least the British part of it - into some ridiculous, unnecessary dystopia?
At our school pick-up yesterday, 80-90% of parents were wearing masks. This afternoon; about half. It'll be interesting to see if this keeps reducing in the next two days before the end of term.
People will wear them in venue specific circumstances until at critical mass at that venue don’t. At which point they’ll be an instant significant drop off.
Morning all. Sorry, only just read the @Cyclefree PT header on the stubborn Tory poll lead. It's a very good helicopter piece.
"If the choice is between the Tories and an empty space, the latter is unlikely to win."
The above line jumped out at me. You read it and reflexively nod and think "too right". It's one of those.
But then - if you're me - you dwell on it a while and wonder whether it is such a slam dunk. This government (and particularly this PM) are increasingly being viewed by anybody with eyes to see and ears to listen and noses to smell and mouths to - ok ok you get the picture - as an utter shambles. No principles. No competence. 'No' as in ZERO.
They've got away with it so far (pollwise) but for how long? Brexit is shedding its potency as iconic wedge issue. Slowly, to be sure, but it is. They can poke the fires of its culture war aspect but is this enough to stay at 40%? I doubt it. Tough times lie ahead with the economy and in Fiscal Corner. Leveling Up, for example, has to move from soundbite to hard policy choices and this will piss some people off. If it doesn't it's not real and remains a soundbite. Which would also start to piss some people off, just a different bunch, those Leavers who voted for this agenda, believing it to be genuine. Because these folk are not total blithering idiots - not in the main and not all the time. Whatever, poll damage is coming either way. Ditto with Social Care. There are no votes in that. Only negative ones if you get serious about it. Ask Andy Burnham or Theresa May. So the same choice there. A solid plan and loss of popularity or a cop out and loss of popularity.
Now we have this mismanaged exit from the pandemic. Plus (the header here) further damaging reveals from Cummings - who was right there in the middle of it - about the response and attitude throughout. The PM at key moments in thrall to bizarre right-wing 'contrarians' for heaven's sake, most of them no wiser than our PB one. His focus not on preventing Covid running amok in England and killing tens of thousands but on something far more important - impressing the Daily Telegraph and the Spectator.
I could go on. The challenge is to stop. But I can do that too. I'm going out maskless in a minute. Big moment. The point is, surely all of this shit is probably going to lead within a year to the Cons polling no better than mid 30s. And then come the GE, given things can only get worse, if the choice is indeed between more of the same or a nice cool empty space fronted by a non-scary, competent, decent sounding bloke who looks like he could run a whelk stall and could manage to tell the truth every now and again, well for me that's a toss up.
I take issue with 'poke the fires of its culture war aspect'. Blaming the right for the culture war is like blaming Poland for World War Two. The right isn't trying to move back to 1953, it just doesn't want to be dragged forward to year zero. All the movement on the culture war is from the left. The right isn't trying to rewrite history. The right is, occasionally, suggesting that perhaps the left might be going a bit too far. Now you're astute, and you'll notice I'm saying 'the left' and not 'the Labour Party'. SKS is trying his hardest to avoid the loonier fringes of the culture war, though his party occasionally drag him into it. But to the electorate as a whole, that's not enough. Neil Kinnock was no culture warrior. But the culture warriors of the wider left - the ILEA, for example - lost him votes. How does SKS distance Labour from the likes of Zarah Sultana and Nadia Whittome?
EDIT - and have you read the Telegraph or the Spectator recently? If the PM has been trying to impress the Telegraph and the Spectator, he's going about it abysmally. What he's trying to do (and succeeding) is to impress the authoritarian lobby which want more laws on other people (like @gealbhan yesterday - although I wasn't sure how serious he was).
EDIT2: And good luck going maskless. Enjoy exchanging smiles with other demaskers!
As named, I’ll explain.
My point being the argument between authoritarian and libertarian is not a left right one, nor is it a case of one side being right, the other wrong. It’s a case of both should listen to the other and debate the other, to help get things right.
It shows up clearly in Covid politics, commentators in the Telegraph (Conservative in party politics, split between libertarian and authoritarian in Covid response) and the Daily Mail (Conservative till sixties, populist right since) also to a smaller degree split between authoritarian and libertarian, though tending toward libertarian in editorial.
In downing street yesterday, JVT Libertarian, open nite clubs, Vallance authoritarian, against doing it right now.
But with the success of vaccines, things have now moved on, old media and new media like this blog very slow to realise how things have moved. It’s never been, if not now then when, it was always going to be how, post vaccine.
It’s not about vaccines now, it’s about behaviours. The horse taken to water (jabbed) could say the easier equation than getting it to drink (behaviour) hence now proper debate required between authoritarian and libertarian to achieve those behaviours.
The government have already decided the road ahead and won’t u turn. My evidence? The main headline this lunchtime, government no intention to tackle pingdemic, they are determined to generate it, latest missive from Downing Street, if you are pinged then isolate.
So if you delete the app, ie show the wrong behaviour, the government won’t concede to you, they will coerce you into the behaviours in the end.
I don’t make this up, I’m just the messenger where for many the penny hasn’t dropped yet.
Marginally following this up, isn't one of Labour's problems that very few of the real choices we face are left v right. A number of left issues are over, and therefore discounted. The NHS, free education to 18, not being an imperial power, social housing, payments to those not in work, House of Lords reform, minimum wage, employment rights, high taxes on the rich, health and safety etc. The centre left has won all the battles, and the centre right occupies what would have been a centre/centre left position.
Covid, Brexit, China, Russia, Islamic extremism, free speech, debt and deficit, the state of the UK union - none of these have obvious left v right alternative solutions.
The game has changed. I think so far the Tories have been better at silently shifting. Labour members still seem to think that the very people who vote in Patel, Sunak, Kwarteng and Nadhim Zahawi are filthy racists because they don't think Diane Abbott, Dawn Butler and Zarah Sultana are outstanding politicians.
The next left/right debate is UBI (and the terms of that debate will, in part be set by the experience of furlough, and our economic path over the next 5 years or so).
I think the left is at *extreme* danger of being outflanked on this by the right, with a post-industrial market-economy argument being made (and won) for its introduction by a future Tory administration, while Labour sits it out, scared of frightening the middle-england horses.
There is no debate to be had, UBI which is enough to live on is unaffordable
UBI already exists in this country, we just don't call it that and we have an extremely high real marginal income tax on it.
A sensible UBI introduction would be to merge existing things together, sort out the tax rates so they're sensible, then call it UBI. Not introduce massive new benefits.
A bit like Osborne introducing a Living Wage, based upon the pre-existing Minimum Wage and not dramatically different.
UBI will not work until they sort out housing benefit, specifically in London and the south.
The current numbers require something like £1k a month for an adult, £500 for a child, and an income tax rate of 35% with no personal allowance. Then start making allowances for behavioural changes, all of which will be on the downside for the Chancellor.
Don't like it, don't get it - handouts for sitting at home make zero sense to me. I take the 'Judge Judy' approach to welfare!
The entire point of a UBI, as opposed to UC/JSA etc is that its not a handout for sitting at home.
What we have today is handouts encouraging people to stay at home.
I t further weakens the notion of self-help and nurse knows best. No thanks.
Actually it does the complete opposite.
UC/JSA weakens the notion of self-help because it pays people to not be working. Work and "you lose your benefits". If you fail to work, you're paid for that.
UBI reinforces the notion of self-help as you get the UBI whether you work or not. Fail to work, you're not given any extra money than those who do work, so you're the one who suffers.
You can only claim JSA now if able bodied if you have made enough NI contributions when in work, so JSA now encourages self-help.
UBI would be paid to anyone, whether a billionaire or multimillionaire in a mansion or someone out of work in a council house.
Are you sure you can't get any benefits without NI contributions? I don't think you're right.
That its paid to a millionaire or in a council house, is the entire point of universality. By paying it to everyone you get rid of the 'poverty trap' and ensure that its not worth anyone not working because if they don't work they only hurt themselves.
The millionaire getting the benefit should just see the benefit offset against the taxes they owe, no different to how the tax-free allowance always worked prior to it being written off for highest earners.
I fail to see why the average taxpayer should fund a benefit to millionaires or why it should mean the millionaire then gets a tax cut instead.
Because you're not thinking straight.
By taxing away the benefits you're not affecting the millionaires marginal tax rate at all.
The people who have a high marginal tax rate and suffer from means testing are the poor not the rich.
The richest who are paying hundreds of thousands or millions of pounds a year in taxes getting a tiny amount back in 'universal benefits' is a rounding error for them, but its incredibly meaningful for the people not facing 75% marginal tax rates anymore.
UC means the poor and out of work are not facing 75% marginal tax rates anymore, as it only reduces their benefits gradually as their working hours increase and earnings up to £12,750 pay no income tax at all
If you are 23 or older working minimum wage then you hit the earnings threshold at 27.5 hours per week. Only working six hours a day, with a half hour lunch break, takes you to £12,750.
If you are working 30 hours a week at £8.91 minimum wage and getting UC then what is your marginal tax rate?
Taking into account Income Tax, National Insurance and UC Taper what marginal tax rate are you facing if you get a job offer for 40 hours a week instead of 30 hours per week?
An argument for cutting taxes further for those earning under £20k, not for paying multimillionaires a UBI
Morning all. Sorry, only just read the @Cyclefree PT header on the stubborn Tory poll lead. It's a very good helicopter piece.
"If the choice is between the Tories and an empty space, the latter is unlikely to win."
The above line jumped out at me. You read it and reflexively nod and think "too right". It's one of those.
But then - if you're me - you dwell on it a while and wonder whether it is such a slam dunk. This government (and particularly this PM) are increasingly being viewed by anybody with eyes to see and ears to listen and noses to smell and mouths to - ok ok you get the picture - as an utter shambles. No principles. No competence. 'No' as in ZERO.
They've got away with it so far (pollwise) but for how long? Brexit is shedding its potency as iconic wedge issue. Slowly, to be sure, but it is. They can poke the fires of its culture war aspect but is this enough to stay at 40%? I doubt it. Tough times lie ahead with the economy and in Fiscal Corner. Leveling Up, for example, has to move from soundbite to hard policy choices and this will piss some people off. If it doesn't it's not real and remains a soundbite. Which would also start to piss some people off, just a different bunch, those Leavers who voted for this agenda, believing it to be genuine. Because these folk are not total blithering idiots - not in the main and not all the time. Whatever, poll damage is coming either way. Ditto with Social Care. There are no votes in that. Only negative ones if you get serious about it. Ask Andy Burnham or Theresa May. So the same choice there. A solid plan and loss of popularity or a cop out and loss of popularity.
Now we have this mismanaged exit from the pandemic. Plus (the header here) further damaging reveals from Cummings - who was right there in the middle of it - about the response and attitude throughout. The PM at key moments in thrall to bizarre right-wing 'contrarians' for heaven's sake, most of them no wiser than our PB one. His focus not on preventing Covid running amok in England and killing tens of thousands but on something far more important - impressing the Daily Telegraph and the Spectator.
I could go on. The challenge is to stop. But I can do that too. I'm going out maskless in a minute. Big moment. The point is, surely all of this shit is probably going to lead within a year to the Cons polling no better than mid 30s. And then come the GE, given things can only get worse, if the choice is indeed between more of the same or a nice cool empty space fronted by a non-scary, competent, decent sounding bloke who looks like he could run a whelk stall and could manage to tell the truth every now and again, well for me that's a toss up.
I take issue with 'poke the fires of its culture war aspect'. Blaming the right for the culture war is like blaming Poland for World War Two. The right isn't trying to move back to 1953, it just doesn't want to be dragged forward to year zero. All the movement on the culture war is from the left. The right isn't trying to rewrite history. The right is, occasionally, suggesting that perhaps the left might be going a bit too far. Now you're astute, and you'll notice I'm saying 'the left' and not 'the Labour Party'. SKS is trying his hardest to avoid the loonier fringes of the culture war, though his party occasionally drag him into it. But to the electorate as a whole, that's not enough. Neil Kinnock was no culture warrior. But the culture warriors of the wider left - the ILEA, for example - lost him votes. How does SKS distance Labour from the likes of Zarah Sultana and Nadia Whittome?
EDIT - and have you read the Telegraph or the Spectator recently? If the PM has been trying to impress the Telegraph and the Spectator, he's going about it abysmally. What he's trying to do (and succeeding) is to impress the authoritarian lobby which want more laws on other people (like @gealbhan yesterday - although I wasn't sure how serious he was).
EDIT2: And good luck going maskless. Enjoy exchanging smiles with other demaskers!
As named, I’ll explain.
My point being the argument between authoritarian and libertarian is not a left right one, nor is it a case of one side being right, the other wrong. It’s a case of both should listen to the other and debate the other, to help get things right.
It shows up clearly in Covid politics, commentators in the Telegraph (Conservative in party politics, split between libertarian and authoritarian in Covid response) and the Daily Mail (Conservative till sixties, populist right since) also to a smaller degree split between authoritarian and libertarian, though tending toward libertarian in editorial.
In downing street yesterday, JVT Libertarian, open nite clubs, Vallance authoritarian, against doing it right now.
But with the success of vaccines, things have now moved on, old media and new media like this blog very slow to realise how things have moved. It’s never been, if not now then when, it was always going to be how, post vaccine.
It’s not about vaccines now, it’s about behaviours. The horse taken to water (jabbed) could say the easier equation than getting it to drink (behaviour) hence now proper debate required between authoritarian and libertarian to achieve those behaviours.
The government have already decided the road ahead and won’t u turn. My evidence? The main headline this lunchtime, government no intention to tackle pingdemic, they are determined to generate it, latest missive from Downing Street, if you are pinged then isolate.
So if you delete the app, ie show the wrong behaviour, the government won’t concede to you, they will coerce you into the behaviours in the end.
I don’t make this up, I’m just the messenger where for many the penny hasn’t dropped yet.
Marginally following this up, isn't one of Labour's problems that very few of the real choices we face are left v right. A number of left issues are over, and therefore discounted. The NHS, free education to 18, not being an imperial power, social housing, payments to those not in work, House of Lords reform, minimum wage, employment rights, high taxes on the rich, health and safety etc. The centre left has won all the battles, and the centre right occupies what would have been a centre/centre left position.
Covid, Brexit, China, Russia, Islamic extremism, free speech, debt and deficit, the state of the UK union - none of these have obvious left v right alternative solutions.
The game has changed. I think so far the Tories have been better at silently shifting. Labour members still seem to think that the very people who vote in Patel, Sunak, Kwarteng and Nadhim Zahawi are filthy racists because they don't think Diane Abbott, Dawn Butler and Zarah Sultana are outstanding politicians.
The next left/right debate is UBI (and the terms of that debate will, in part be set by the experience of furlough, and our economic path over the next 5 years or so).
I think the left is at *extreme* danger of being outflanked on this by the right, with a post-industrial market-economy argument being made (and won) for its introduction by a future Tory administration, while Labour sits it out, scared of frightening the middle-england horses.
There is no debate to be had, UBI which is enough to live on is unaffordable
UBI already exists in this country, we just don't call it that and we have an extremely high real marginal income tax on it.
A sensible UBI introduction would be to merge existing things together, sort out the tax rates so they're sensible, then call it UBI. Not introduce massive new benefits.
A bit like Osborne introducing a Living Wage, based upon the pre-existing Minimum Wage and not dramatically different.
UBI will not work until they sort out housing benefit, specifically in London and the south.
The current numbers require something like £1k a month for an adult, £500 for a child, and an income tax rate of 35% with no personal allowance. Then start making allowances for behavioural changes, all of which will be on the downside for the Chancellor.
Don't like it, don't get it - handouts for sitting at home make zero sense to me. I take the 'Judge Judy' approach to welfare!
The entire point of a UBI, as opposed to UC/JSA etc is that its not a handout for sitting at home.
What we have today is handouts encouraging people to stay at home.
I t further weakens the notion of self-help and nurse knows best. No thanks.
Actually it does the complete opposite.
UC/JSA weakens the notion of self-help because it pays people to not be working. Work and "you lose your benefits". If you fail to work, you're paid for that.
UBI reinforces the notion of self-help as you get the UBI whether you work or not. Fail to work, you're not given any extra money than those who do work, so you're the one who suffers.
You can only claim JSA now if able bodied if you have made enough NI contributions when in work, so JSA now encourages self-help.
UBI would be paid to anyone, whether a billionaire or multimillionaire in a mansion or someone out of work in a council house.
Are you sure you can't get any benefits without NI contributions? I don't think you're right.
That its paid to a millionaire or in a council house, is the entire point of universality. By paying it to everyone you get rid of the 'poverty trap' and ensure that its not worth anyone not working because if they don't work they only hurt themselves.
The millionaire getting the benefit should just see the benefit offset against the taxes they owe, no different to how the tax-free allowance always worked prior to it being written off for highest earners.
I fail to see why the average taxpayer should fund a benefit to millionaires or why it should mean the millionaire then gets a tax cut instead.
Because you're not thinking straight.
By taxing away the benefits you're not affecting the millionaires marginal tax rate at all.
The people who have a high marginal tax rate and suffer from means testing are the poor not the rich.
The richest who are paying hundreds of thousands or millions of pounds a year in taxes getting a tiny amount back in 'universal benefits' is a rounding error for them, but its incredibly meaningful for the people not facing 75% marginal tax rates anymore.
UC means the poor and out of work are not facing 75% marginal tax rates anymore, as it only reduces their benefits gradually as their working hours increase and earnings up to £12,750 pay no income tax at all
If you are 23 or older working minimum wage then you hit the earnings threshold at 27.5 hours per week. Only working six hours a day, with a half hour lunch break, takes you to £12,750.
If you are working 30 hours a week at £8.91 minimum wage and getting UC then what is your marginal tax rate?
Taking into account Income Tax, National Insurance and UC Taper what marginal tax rate are you facing if you get a job offer for 40 hours a week instead of 30 hours per week?
An argument for cutting taxes further for those earning under £20k, not for paying multimillionaires a UBI
I am with @Philip_Thompson all the way with this. Firstly the well off do not benefit from it because it gets taxed back in a higher or earlier applying marginal rate, so only those less well off benefit. It makes the tax and benefits system simpler, it helps to remove poverty and abuse of the benefits system and helps stop people missing out on what they are due. It would have made the furlough scheme much more simple also. You could scrap most of the DWP.
It will piss even more off if they try to implement it....imagine long queues building up outside pubs. restaurants, nightclubs,gigs ...."Sorry cant let you in because cant verify your status as the servers are down"
Very forseeable so the gov't will of course ensure the server capacity is increased prior to it being a condition
You can't increase the capacity that much, botnets are cheap to hire and IoT has provide many more millions of devices to run them on. Plus when did you last see a competent government it operation
The vaccine passport is on the users phone. No need for the nightclub to have computer access, just a doorman who knows what to look for. Same when you fly etc*. So no government IT to bring down.
*One of our nurses was in Spain a couple of weeks back. No one checked either way.
No way will Mr Bill Jones' screenshotted double vaccine confirmation ever be used. A million times.
I can advise that fake vaccine certification is already changing hands for £500 a pop.
There are some idiots around, aren't there? Get vaccinated, save yourself £500.
And a fine and criminal record.
You're a LibDem you say?
Yes, but I don't write policy.
I think that deliberately falsifying vaccine documentation is worthy of a fine and criminal record.
So first off you disagree with what is a flagship LibDem policy. Arguably the only LibDem policy (that anyone has heard of anyway).
And when did a vaccine document become governed by law. What is that law, I wonder? Attending a nightclub while unvaccinated? What do you suggest?
I would say that using a fake vaxxport to enter premises is obtaining services by deception.
It would be better if people behaved responsibly rather than recklessly spread their germs, but clearly many in our country are too selfish to do so.
Just out of interest, as a LibDem do you feel any twang at all about the liberal element of this policy a la LibDem's pronouncements on it?
Not really, I am a party member, but that doesn't mean I am bound by party opinion. I disagree with my party over a number of issues. It is a party where different views are respected.
I AM SORRY FOR THAT NASTY REMARK ABOUT THE GERMANS DROWNING
It was - genuinely - a joke, but I understand some did not take it that way, and I apologise to anyone I offended
For the sake of clarity, I have also removed my DVD of "Dambusters", smashed it into tiny pieces with a clawhammer, put the grainy remnants in a bin, and had the bin legally incinerated.
I then gathered the ashes of the incinerated bin containing tiny remnants of the smashed up DVD of "Dambusters", and I Ipoured them all into a sealed leaden urn which was then airlifted to Switzerland and swiftly taken underground where it was torn into fundamental particles in the super-collider at CERN, which means the final atoms are now probably rolling into the Rhine. Ironically.
Easily the most bizarre non apology in human and extra terrestrial history.
No, that's a real apology. I am sorry
The remark was a gag - and I never imagined anyone would see it otherwise. I don't actually "enjoy" watching humans drown
But after my outrage settled I came back and had a look why I was banned and I read that line and I thought Oof, yes, that doesn't look good - if you were a passing visitor to the site, say, and you saw that one sentence you could easily take it literally and think PB is some horrible sewer of slurs and bile. And Mike has to look after the place, and keep it respectable, so he was right to yellow card me and I am genuinely contrite
Suspicion is you got away with a yellow card because you are box office and very popular in this room. If I was to joke say, would have enjoyed seeing you had slept the session off in a recycle bin and drowned on your own vomit, it would become the last thing I ever posted.
I AM SORRY FOR THAT NASTY REMARK ABOUT THE GERMANS DROWNING
It was - genuinely - a joke, but I understand some did not take it that way, and I apologise to anyone I offended
For the sake of clarity, I have also removed my DVD of "Dambusters", smashed it into tiny pieces with a clawhammer, put the grainy remnants in a bin, and had the bin legally incinerated.
I then gathered the ashes of the incinerated bin containing tiny remnants of the smashed up DVD of "Dambusters", and I poured them all into a sealed leaden urn which was then airlifted to Switzerland and swiftly taken underground where it was torn into fundamental particles in the super-collider at CERN, which means the final atoms are now probably rolling into the Rhine. Ironically.
Oddly enough, I randomly came across the Dambusters' memorial when passing through Woodhall Spa the other day.
I wasn't totally convinced that a representation of the destroyed target was a suitable memorial although perhaps that's just me. I don't imagine the airmen of 617 squadron would mind.
Given the fact that the government has – as we understand – almost entirely failed to enforce the isolation rule, what on earth makes any think it can enforce the clubbing rule?
That is not to say people won't use the vaxpasses, I'm sure they will, but whether contravention is enforceable is a very different question.
You have doormen on clubs. They love a bit of authoritarianism.
I have been a doorman on a club and I'm sorry to say that is absolutely true. But only to the bellends.
A lot of bellends amongst doormen
Yes true. Most of those who are out of order are a bit heavy handed but as they say, you should walk a mile in their shoes first. A _lot_ of bellends present themselves (Fridays worse than Saturdays...).
Walking a mile in their shoes means you will be a mile away when they react...
Comments
The remark was a gag - and I never imagined anyone would see it otherwise. I don't actually "enjoy" watching humans drown
But after my outrage settled I came back and had a look why I was banned and I read that line and I thought Oof, yes, that doesn't look good - if you were a passing visitor to the site, say, and you saw that one sentence you could easily take it literally and think PB is some horrible sewer of slurs and bile. And Mike has to look after the place, and keep it respectable, so he was right to yellow card me and I am genuinely contrite
I'll report back.
Couple of Londoners in the pub garden at Crackington Haven shouting their heads off about how they've been pinged and are isolating in their campervan.
Okay, a plea to PBers. Whilst I was out on the school run, my wife reported seeing a small bird fly in through her window. She didn't see where it went. Now, in another room, me and the little 'un have heard two periods of wing flapping over twenty minutes. We *think* we know which part of the room it is in (amongst the little 'uns toys or the TV/DVD area), but we can't find it for love nor money.
If he hadn't heard it as well I'd think I was going crazy. We don't think it was coming from outside.
Any tips on how to find it?
Second, well, perhaps the notion of ordering at the bar and hanging round there like an S.K Tremayne book in a WH Smith bargain book bin isn't as popular as some on here think.
Anecdotal warning - in my limited social circle of inadequates, reprobates and malcontents, there is almost universal support for finding a table and using an app to order and pay. It's just so much more civilised than a scrum down and pretending not to be invisible but chacun a son gout as someone else once said.
East Ham isn't Camden (in so many aspects) but yes, there's still a lot of mask wearing. Are those wearing the masks (especially older people) the unvaccinated? Who needs a vaxport - just look for old people with masks - perhaps not.
We crossed that Rubicon of Absurdity (a good title for a book methinks?) some time ago.
It would be better if people behaved responsibly rather than recklessly spread their germs, but clearly many in our country are too selfish to do so.
Its the only time I would have willingly gone round and ordered at each individual vendor as 4 different orders on your phone (all paid for individually) is blooming painful.
I took my mask off when I was shopping, though I had it ready
It took a bit of nerve seeing as 90-95% of people ARE masked around here
We cannot let masks become some permanent feature of society. They are hideous and desolating. You seldom see a human smile, that cheerful gaze from a stranger which can lift your heart. So sad, and really bad for kids who need reassurance
If a girl wears lots of make up and dresses older so she can get served, is that obtaining services by deception?
Naturally all that breeds some degree of arrogant gitosity.
Up until March of this year, masks were seatbelts
Or something.
This is a big reason I am attached to it, I like the grittiness and the melee (tho I am glad I live at the slightly posher end, we are all human)
So Camden is probably quite representative - at least of London as a whole (and Highgate felt very similar). Dunno about the UK
Personally, I'm wearing a mask despite being double jabbed. Here's my (more-or-less-absurd) rationale. Because I have school-age kids, that puts me in a "rather likely to get exposed to the plague" group, and (being double jabbed) any infection is likely to be asymptomatic. I've also got hay fever, so I'm attempting to keep my regular and violent sneezes broadly to myself.
I wasn't totally convinced that a representation of the destroyed target was a suitable memorial although perhaps that's just me. I don't imagine the airmen of 617 squadron would mind.
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g1055128-d7733363-Reviews-Dambusters_Memorial-Woodhall_Spa_Lincolnshire_England.html
The Lancaster fly-bys of Howden Dam, though - lets have more of those...