On topic, how reliable do we think a poll taken on a (very nice) Sunday is? @Isam always says that the politically engaged are always over represented in polls; it may be even more true for this one.
Ah, @Isam still banned. Don't know why, but more's the pity.
He’s the Joey Barton of PB. No matter how well he’s playing you know it’s only a matter of time before his next red card and suspension.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
I don't think that's true - I think Denmark is more open than the UK.
Debateable as it stands, but 100% definitely not the case as of midnight.
In Denmark you can't enter a gym, or attend any organised indoor sport events without a Corona Passport. In the UK you've been able to attend a gym without a Covid passport.
In Denmark you need a Corona Passport to enter restraurants, cafes and bars. You don't in the UK. In Denmark all restaraunts, cafes and bars much close no later than 2am.
In Denmark for massages, haircuts and tattoos etc you must present a Covid Passport. You don't in the UK.
In Denmark you can't enter a museum, amusement park, cinema, venues, zoos, stadiums or other sport venues without a corona passport. You can in the UK.
In Denmark all discos and nightclubs are closed, they will be open tonight in the UK.
In Denmark its illegal to have indoor events and activities of more than 250 people, all such restrictions are being abolished in the UK.
In Denmark a face mask is legally required on public transport. Its not in the UK from tomorrow.
Sure, but that's Denmark's way (like Israel's) of achieving close to 100% vaccine uptake. It's basically freedom, so long as you are willing to get jabbed.
Sure, but that's not more free than the UK is it?
They pretty much have the same restrictions the UK had in Stage 3 but with the Covid passport in addition too. They're not at UK Stage 4 restrictions even with the passport yet.
At midnight tonight drinkers in bars up and down the UK will be able to go from bars to nightclubs, they won't in Denmark.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
I don't think that's true - I think Denmark is more open than the UK.
Debateable as it stands, but 100% definitely not the case as of midnight.
In Denmark you can't enter a gym, or attend any organised indoor sport events without a Corona Passport. In the UK you've been able to attend a gym without a Covid passport.
In Denmark you need a Corona Passport to enter restraurants, cafes and bars. You don't in the UK. In Denmark all restaraunts, cafes and bars much close no later than 2am.
In Denmark for massages, haircuts and tattoos etc you must present a Covid Passport. You don't in the UK.
In Denmark you can't enter a museum, amusement park, cinema, venues, zoos, stadiums or other sport venues without a corona passport. You can in the UK.
In Denmark all discos and nightclubs are closed, they will be open tonight in the UK.
In Denmark its illegal to have indoor events and activities of more than 250 people, all such restrictions are being abolished in the UK.
In Denmark a face mask is legally required on public transport. Its not in the UK from tomorrow.
Had they not self isolated it may have been damaging, now they are doing so which the poll shows most of the public agree with then I doubt it will be damaging.
If they brought forward ending self isolation for the double jabbed if they have come into contact with a Covid case from next month then it would not be an issue at all
Maybe but thousands, even millions have taken the decision to delete the app anyway
When you say bringing it forward from next month would not make it an issue, but the sheer scale of stupidity over this, and todays nonsense provides Boris and HMG opponents with gifts that just keep on coming
The time for Boris to move over is rapidly coming, and the sooner the better to be fair for many of moderate conservatives.
Of course, you will show some selective polling that Boris is the darling of the Country but every day he seems to be challenging that popularity, and losing goodwill by the bucket full and reminding so many of how easily 'Ratner' trashed his brand so quickly
It was Boris who won the Red Wall and Boris who is the most successful Tory election winner since Thatcher, once Thatcher went of course the Tories lost 3 out of 4 of the following general elections and even when they got back in in 2010 it was without a majority.
Similarly when Labour replaced Blair, its most successful election winner ever, with Brown in 2007 it then went on to lose 4 successive general elections and has still not got back in power yet.
Parties get win of leaders who win big general election majorities at their peril
With respect you just do not get it
HYUFD is right. Boris single handedly saved the conservative party in 2019 and reshaped it, against almost unthinkable odds, in to the election winning force that it is today.
That is not to say that he will never be manouvred out, he will - and probably relatively soon given his apparent lack of interest in the job. But trying to shift him after 2 years whilst he is doing well in the polls is really unthinkable and somewhat absurd.
Indeed, the 43.6% Boris won for the Tories in 2019 was the highest Tory voteshare since the 43.9% Thatcher got in 1979 and the Tories are still on 40%+ in every poll, getting rid of Boris now would be absurd.
This would be a perfectly acceptable position if the Conservative Party was in Opposition, and its leader’s only real measurable was to collect enough votes to form a government.
But Boris Johnson isn’t in Opposition, he is leading the government and has a major impact on our lives. More so in fact than any PM in living memory for all but a tiny fraction of us.
We should all have a higher standard and broader set of deliverables for him, than merely what polling score he can record. That is especially the case for party members and activists. Your (small) role in the governance of the country above us mere voters, means you have a duty to your fellow countrymen to ensure the gift they bestowed of a strong majority is wisely used. Because it is only activists and members who really have the power to change the course of a poor government in between elections.
That you cannot see this speaks volumes.
The UK government under Johnson has got more of its population double vaccinated than almost any other western nation and no party that I can think of has willingly got rid of a leader with a big poll lead whether in power or not
You're right, but what happens when that poll lead evaporates, or reduces significantly, as it almost certainly will?
What makes Johnson vulnerable I suspect is that a lot of his own MPs, conservative commentators/journalists, and activists like yourself, don't really think that he is a suitable Prime Minister. They have serious doubts about his character, integrity, honesty and competence. Even you have hinted at some doubts, despite your undying loyalty. Most are happy to keep quiet about these doubts while he's a winner, but they will surface once his capacity to win is diminished, and it will be brutal.
So I doubt if Starmer will need to topple Johnson. The Tories will be the executioners.
There is some truth in this. But they are wider truths. Boris was brought in to get Brexit done, and by an accident of history presided over Covid. For the first he stands alone in suitability. For the second, not. But Brexit is not done, and won't be for some time. Who is the right PM for the chicanery required to get the EU to tear up their red lines over Ireland, see off Nicola, keep hold of the northern wall, defend the south against LDs AND sort Covid and ordinary dull politics? On balance Boris for now, but not for always.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
On topic, how reliable do we think a poll taken on a (very nice) Sunday is? @Isam always says that the politically engaged are always over represented in polls; it may be even more true for this one.
Ah, @Isam still banned. Don't know why, but more's the pity.
yes it's bollocks. STOP BANNING ISAM
You could offer to take his place on the banned list, like some sort of hostage exchange?
It seems pretty easy going here. What do you have to do to get a ban ?
I've no idea. We could ask the banned, but they couldn't reply......
Who is the right PM for the chicanery required to get the EU to tear up their red lines over Ireland, see off Nicola, keep hold of the northern wall, defend the south against LDs AND sort Covid and ordinary dull politics? On balance Boris for now, but not for always.
BoZo can't do any of those things and has already failed in spectacular fashion on some.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask
People who moan about the headers on PB are free, presumably, to post elsewhere.
The PB Tory supply is inexhaustible, so they won’t be missed.
I was just pointing out the lack of balance which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. You will be pleased to know my posting on the site has reduced to almost zero. I hope it keeps you happy.
I too have been swamped by left wingery on this site. As the leading social liberal centre moderate on this site I have applied to DWP for a benefit to be able to continue to post here.
More seriously the site's direction is hard left but it is still the best site and allows posting from moderates like me and you so keep posting! ♥️
The site is not hard left. It is generally an excellent place to be, tolerant, amusing, and exceedingly well informed
However they could do with a couple more loyal Tories - or Borisovites - to write threaders. 43% of the country still supports the PM, you would never know that from PB
And constantly banning articulate reasonable right wingers like Isam is, I feel, an error
But this site is all available for free, and it is better than any other chat forum I know. So, there's that, too
Moderation is the site owners prerogative.
I yawn at the site with every successive anti Boris thread. There really is no point in arguing with the twitterati types. They love bashing Boris. If it makes them happy, I will leave them to it except for commenting occasionally.
When you get comments insulting Boris as a prelude to the main assault.. there really is no point.
I have had a wonderful week.in the Lake District. The Telly has been off bar the last ten mins of the Challenge Cup Final. Huzzah. Saints won.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
I didn't say it wasn't the fault(in part) of the likes of Macron and Handelsblatt. I was simply saying that a factor in their lower vax rates was that they were relying more on AZ. And the sad reality is that AZ has come to be seen in many countries as not to be trusted, thereby exacerbating what may already have been a cultural vaccine hesitancy. I was using it as an explanation for differences between East and West. No more, no less.
If as is now looking probable viral vector vaccines give the best long-term protection the comments of the likes of Macron verge on being murderous. Even Trump has never quite plumbed such depths in regards to covid.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
I don't think that's true - I think Denmark is more open than the UK.
Debateable as it stands, but 100% definitely not the case as of midnight.
In Denmark you can't enter a gym, or attend any organised indoor sport events without a Corona Passport. In the UK you've been able to attend a gym without a Covid passport.
In Denmark you need a Corona Passport to enter restraurants, cafes and bars. You don't in the UK. In Denmark all restaraunts, cafes and bars much close no later than 2am.
In Denmark for massages, haircuts and tattoos etc you must present a Covid Passport. You don't in the UK.
In Denmark you can't enter a museum, amusement park, cinema, venues, zoos, stadiums or other sport venues without a corona passport. You can in the UK.
In Denmark all discos and nightclubs are closed, they will be open tonight in the UK.
In Denmark its illegal to have indoor events and activities of more than 250 people, all such restrictions are being abolished in the UK.
In Denmark a face mask is legally required on public transport. Its not in the UK from tomorrow.
Taking of which, Sweden now seems to be the only EU member not having a 3rd wave, (cases staying at 200-250 a day)
Perhaps, that's just luck and it will start to rise next week, or maybe that's because lots of young people including under 18s had it asymptomatically in the earlier wayvs and therefor have a level of antibody/T Cell immunity, which in conjunction with the Vaccines in the Old and middle-aged.
Anybody else with 17 months hindsight wish we had taken the Swedish approach?
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask
Which is true in the UK as of midnight even without proof, so the UK will be more open than Austria as of midnight.
It was also true of Spain until recently but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people after it reopened all its nightclubs and bars without restriction or Covid passports it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions, if we do see restrictions again nightclubs are likely to be first to go given so many of their customers will be younger and under 30 and not yet double vaccinated
I think the Tweet is unpleasant so I don't agree with that but Johnson doesn't look well at all, again? It can't be an easy job whatever my misgivings with Johnson himself - but he doesn't look well
On your point (not the Tweet) I'd have thought that Mr Johnson was only too well aware of his hero's final term in office.
If the Prime Minister relies on that leading biography, The Churchill Factor, by Boris Johnson, he may well be entirely unaware of Churchill's second term in office. So far as I can see from skimming the table of contents, it is not mentioned, let alone covered.
A couple of sleazeballs caught in the act. The sense of entitlement in this government is something we've never seen before and are struggling to get used to
I think one problem for Boris is that he is building up a huge backlog of awkward questions that would make any interview difficult even done by an incompetent journalist. I don't see how he can escape scrutiny in the medium term and during a future GE. Given that plus other character indicators he may quit while ahead with a bit of long Covid/ ill health/ exhaustion as the excuse whilst still ahead in the polls.
A couple of sleazeballs caught in the act. The sense of entitlement in this government is something we've never seen before and are struggling to get used to
You never commented negatively when it was your man Prescott and Ms Tracy Temple having a dabble...
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
I don't think that's true - I think Denmark is more open than the UK.
Debateable as it stands, but 100% definitely not the case as of midnight.
In Denmark you can't enter a gym, or attend any organised indoor sport events without a Corona Passport. In the UK you've been able to attend a gym without a Covid passport.
In Denmark you need a Corona Passport to enter restraurants, cafes and bars. You don't in the UK. In Denmark all restaraunts, cafes and bars much close no later than 2am.
In Denmark for massages, haircuts and tattoos etc you must present a Covid Passport. You don't in the UK.
In Denmark you can't enter a museum, amusement park, cinema, venues, zoos, stadiums or other sport venues without a corona passport. You can in the UK.
In Denmark all discos and nightclubs are closed, they will be open tonight in the UK.
In Denmark its illegal to have indoor events and activities of more than 250 people, all such restrictions are being abolished in the UK.
In Denmark a face mask is legally required on public transport. Its not in the UK from tomorrow.
Taking of which, Sweden now seems to be the only EU member not having a 3rd wave, (cases staying at 200-250 a day)
Perhaps, that's just luck and it will start to rise next week, or maybe that's because lots of young people including under 18s had it asymptomatically in the earlier wayvs and therefor have a level of antibody/T Cell immunity, which in conjunction with the Vaccines in the Old and middle-aged.
Anybody else with 17 months hindsight wish we had taken the Swedish approach?
Yes, like Sweden we should have shut down international travel early.
Snap.. another anti Boris thread... no.mention of the poll that says Labour are losing the black vote.. its getting very one sided....
There is a genuinely interesting header to be written, which is why is Johnson's government 10 percentage points ahead of Labour when they screw everything up on such an unprecedented scale? Simply saying they DO screw everything up doesn't get to the answer IMO, nor is saying, they ARE 10% ahead in the polls so they must be doing something right.
Maybe you could write that header?
There is a simple answer and not one that voted tory since 2010 nor in fact for anyone.
Yes the tories did crap
However pretty sure labour would have been worse, starmer would have joined the eu vaccine scheme and frankly without the uk outpacing them the eu would still be dawdling
The lib dems would have done even worse not only would we have joined the eu vaccines scheme they would have sent any vaccines we did receive to more needy eu nations
In contrast to the zeitgeist a couple of months back, when it appeared that the pace of your nation’s organised vaccination rollout in was the only game in town, it is now quite obvious that there are many other factors in play. We haven’t gained any significant advantage from being a month or two ahead in vaccination, when you compare our stats with other countries.
The counter factual is that if the uk hadnt been showing them up the eu would have continued at their liesurely snails pace....not provable either way but boy they sure werent in a hurry till the comparisons came out
I think there's a fair amount of truth in that. Who says healthy competition isn't good for everybody?
On the subject of the EU, what doesn't get a lot of attention is the ridiculous difference in vaccine uptakes between Eastern and Western Europe.
In the West, you have Iceland (90% of adults with at least one jab) and the UK (89%) leading the pack, with Belgium (83%) and the Netherlands (82%) not far behind. Germany, France, Italy and Spain are in a group behind at between 67% and 75%.
Now look to the East... Latvia is at only 42%, Romania at 31% (which is basically identical to the number double jabbed), while Bulgaria is at a barely believable 18% and jabbing has basically ground to a halt there.
The East is going to get hammered by Delta.
A lot of the differences are obviously cultural, but isn't another major factor that most of the poorer countries in Eastern Europe put all their money down on the cheaper AZ vaccines. Given what happened subsequently i doubt that the better performing countries would be doing as well as they are if they weren't awash with Pfizer.
Most (maybe all) of those countries signed up to the EU procurement scheme, so I think it's uptake related, not availability.
So in short we're no further ahead than anyone else in terms of freedom, despite our "world beating" vaccine programme.
What? 😲
We've just had a detailed conversation explaining in bulk how the UK is much further ahead than everyone else in Europe (as of midnight tonight) and we already were ahead of almost everyone else before then even.
And your response to that is to turn around and say "in short we're no further ahead"?
You just have a predetermined outcome in your mind and the truth doesn't matter an iota to you, does it?
A couple of sleazeballs caught in the act. The sense of entitlement in this government is something we've never seen before and are struggling to get used to
You never commented negatively when it was your man Prescott and Ms Tracy Temple having a dabble...
THey didn't do it when the bubonic plague was afoot. (Feels almost that long ago.)
Edit: if indeed they did. I can't remember that far back.
Snap.. another anti Boris thread... no.mention of the poll that says Labour are losing the black vote.. its getting very one sided....
There is a genuinely interesting header to be written, which is why is Johnson's government 10 percentage points ahead of Labour when they screw everything up on such an unprecedented scale? Simply saying they DO screw everything up doesn't get to the answer IMO, nor is saying, they ARE 10% ahead in the polls so they must be doing something right.
Maybe you could write that header?
There is a simple answer and not one that voted tory since 2010 nor in fact for anyone.
Yes the tories did crap
However pretty sure labour would have been worse, starmer would have joined the eu vaccine scheme and frankly without the uk outpacing them the eu would still be dawdling
The lib dems would have done even worse not only would we have joined the eu vaccines scheme they would have sent any vaccines we did receive to more needy eu nations
In contrast to the zeitgeist a couple of months back, when it appeared that the pace of your nation’s organised vaccination rollout in was the only game in town, it is now quite obvious that there are many other factors in play. We haven’t gained any significant advantage from being a month or two ahead in vaccination, when you compare our stats with other countries.
The counter factual is that if the uk hadnt been showing them up the eu would have continued at their liesurely snails pace....not provable either way but boy they sure werent in a hurry till the comparisons came out
I think there's a fair amount of truth in that. Who says healthy competition isn't good for everybody?
On the subject of the EU, what doesn't get a lot of attention is the ridiculous difference in vaccine uptakes between Eastern and Western Europe.
In the West, you have Iceland (90% of adults with at least one jab) and the UK (89%) leading the pack, with Belgium (83%) and the Netherlands (82%) not far behind. Germany, France, Italy and Spain are in a group behind at between 67% and 75%.
Now look to the East... Latvia is at only 42%, Romania at 31% (which is basically identical to the number double jabbed), while Bulgaria is at a barely believable 18% and jabbing has basically ground to a halt there.
The East is going to get hammered by Delta.
For different reasons both the UK and the EU were lucky in their vaccine rollouts. The UK was lucky the EU didn't block vaccine exports as the US and India have done, given half of the UK administered vaccines originate in the EU. It would otherwise be dependent on Chinese vaccines as the only other major exporter. The EU was lucky to have over-invested in Pfizer/Biontech, which was the jackpot winner in the vaccine stakes for speed to market, good production ramp-up and no major side effects so far.
To @alex_'s point, I don't think money is the issue for countries like Romania who haven't managed to find willing recipients for the vaccines they do have and are now selling the leftovers to places like Denmark.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
I don't think that's true - I think Denmark is more open than the UK.
Debateable as it stands, but 100% definitely not the case as of midnight.
In Denmark you can't enter a gym, or attend any organised indoor sport events without a Corona Passport. In the UK you've been able to attend a gym without a Covid passport.
In Denmark you need a Corona Passport to enter restraurants, cafes and bars. You don't in the UK. In Denmark all restaraunts, cafes and bars much close no later than 2am.
In Denmark for massages, haircuts and tattoos etc you must present a Covid Passport. You don't in the UK.
In Denmark you can't enter a museum, amusement park, cinema, venues, zoos, stadiums or other sport venues without a corona passport. You can in the UK.
In Denmark all discos and nightclubs are closed, they will be open tonight in the UK.
In Denmark its illegal to have indoor events and activities of more than 250 people, all such restrictions are being abolished in the UK.
In Denmark a face mask is legally required on public transport. Its not in the UK from tomorrow.
Taking of which, Sweden now seems to be the only EU member not having a 3rd wave, (cases staying at 200-250 a day)
Perhaps, that's just luck and it will start to rise next week, or maybe that's because lots of young people including under 18s had it asymptomatically in the earlier wayvs and therefor have a level of antibody/T Cell immunity, which in conjunction with the Vaccines in the Old and middle-aged.
Anybody else with 17 months hindsight wish we had taken the Swedish approach?
The Swedes did end up implementing very similar measures to the UK, at least in the cities. There's much less difference in 2021 between their approach and everyone else, than in 2021.
The biggest "third wave" timing indicator is simply the number of seeded Delta cases.
I think the Tweet is unpleasant so I don't agree with that but Johnson doesn't look well at all, again? It can't be an easy job whatever my misgivings with Johnson himself - but he doesn't look well
On your point (not the Tweet) I'd have thought that Mr Johnson was only too well aware of his hero's final term in office.
If the Prime Minister relies on that leading biography, The Churchill Factor, by Boris Johnson, he may well be entirely unaware of Churchill's second term in office. So far as I can see from skimming the table of contents, it is not mentioned, let alone covered.
Now that is very, very interesting indeed.
The chapter headings are so vague I think it's hard to come to that conclusion without actually reading it.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
I don't think that's true - I think Denmark is more open than the UK.
Debateable as it stands, but 100% definitely not the case as of midnight.
In Denmark you can't enter a gym, or attend any organised indoor sport events without a Corona Passport. In the UK you've been able to attend a gym without a Covid passport.
In Denmark you need a Corona Passport to enter restraurants, cafes and bars. You don't in the UK. In Denmark all restaraunts, cafes and bars much close no later than 2am.
In Denmark for massages, haircuts and tattoos etc you must present a Covid Passport. You don't in the UK.
In Denmark you can't enter a museum, amusement park, cinema, venues, zoos, stadiums or other sport venues without a corona passport. You can in the UK.
In Denmark all discos and nightclubs are closed, they will be open tonight in the UK.
In Denmark its illegal to have indoor events and activities of more than 250 people, all such restrictions are being abolished in the UK.
In Denmark a face mask is legally required on public transport. Its not in the UK from tomorrow.
Taking of which, Sweden now seems to be the only EU member not having a 3rd wave, (cases staying at 200-250 a day)
Perhaps, that's just luck and it will start to rise next week, or maybe that's because lots of young people including under 18s had it asymptomatically in the earlier wayvs and therefor have a level of antibody/T Cell immunity, which in conjunction with the Vaccines in the Old and middle-aged.
Anybody else with 17 months hindsight wish we had taken the Swedish approach?
Yes, like Sweden we should have shut down international travel early.
Sweden restricted international travel later than we did, they were practically the last place in the would to do that.
Johnson says he only ‘briefly’ considered not isolating: Boris Johnson says he only looked “briefly into the idea” of avoiding self-isolation through a daily contact testing pilot after being pinged by NHS test and trace.
He considered long enough to
1. issue a press release saying they were doing it 2. send a minister on all the morning shows to defend them doing it.
BoZo thinks the people who vote for him are idiots.
He also treats his staff like shit. Philip Thompson is working 14 hour days and hasn't had a day off including week ends since Johnson took over
I think the Tweet is unpleasant so I don't agree with that but Johnson doesn't look well at all, again? It can't be an easy job whatever my misgivings with Johnson himself - but he doesn't look well
On your point (not the Tweet) I'd have thought that Mr Johnson was only too well aware of his hero's final term in office.
If the Prime Minister relies on that leading biography, The Churchill Factor, by Boris Johnson, he may well be entirely unaware of Churchill's second term in office. So far as I can see from skimming the table of contents, it is not mentioned, let alone covered.
Now that is very, very interesting indeed.
The chapter headings are so vague I think it's hard to come to that conclusion without actually reading it.
For some unaccountable reason I do not wish to shell out £0.99 on amazon.co.uk and rather more importantly the time spent in reading it. Maybe some kind PBer could advise us?
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
I don't think that's true - I think Denmark is more open than the UK.
Debateable as it stands, but 100% definitely not the case as of midnight.
In Denmark you can't enter a gym, or attend any organised indoor sport events without a Corona Passport. In the UK you've been able to attend a gym without a Covid passport.
In Denmark you need a Corona Passport to enter restraurants, cafes and bars. You don't in the UK. In Denmark all restaraunts, cafes and bars much close no later than 2am.
In Denmark for massages, haircuts and tattoos etc you must present a Covid Passport. You don't in the UK.
In Denmark you can't enter a museum, amusement park, cinema, venues, zoos, stadiums or other sport venues without a corona passport. You can in the UK.
In Denmark all discos and nightclubs are closed, they will be open tonight in the UK.
In Denmark its illegal to have indoor events and activities of more than 250 people, all such restrictions are being abolished in the UK.
In Denmark a face mask is legally required on public transport. Its not in the UK from tomorrow.
Taking of which, Sweden now seems to be the only EU member not having a 3rd wave, (cases staying at 200-250 a day)
Perhaps, that's just luck and it will start to rise next week, or maybe that's because lots of young people including under 18s had it asymptomatically in the earlier wayvs and therefor have a level of antibody/T Cell immunity, which in conjunction with the Vaccines in the Old and middle-aged.
Anybody else with 17 months hindsight wish we had taken the Swedish approach?
Yes, like Sweden we should have shut down international travel early.
Sweden restricted international travel later than we did, they were practically the last place in the would to do that.
No, sweden restricted international flights on the 18th of march 2020.
Snap.. another anti Boris thread... no.mention of the poll that says Labour are losing the black vote.. its getting very one sided....
There is a genuinely interesting header to be written, which is why is Johnson's government 10 percentage points ahead of Labour when they screw everything up on such an unprecedented scale? Simply saying they DO screw everything up doesn't get to the answer IMO, nor is saying, they ARE 10% ahead in the polls so they must be doing something right.
Maybe you could write that header?
There is a simple answer and not one that voted tory since 2010 nor in fact for anyone.
Yes the tories did crap
However pretty sure labour would have been worse, starmer would have joined the eu vaccine scheme and frankly without the uk outpacing them the eu would still be dawdling
The lib dems would have done even worse not only would we have joined the eu vaccines scheme they would have sent any vaccines we did receive to more needy eu nations
In contrast to the zeitgeist a couple of months back, when it appeared that the pace of your nation’s organised vaccination rollout in was the only game in town, it is now quite obvious that there are many other factors in play. We haven’t gained any significant advantage from being a month or two ahead in vaccination, when you compare our stats with other countries.
The counter factual is that if the uk hadnt been showing them up the eu would have continued at their liesurely snails pace....not provable either way but boy they sure werent in a hurry till the comparisons came out
I think there's a fair amount of truth in that. Who says healthy competition isn't good for everybody?
On the subject of the EU, what doesn't get a lot of attention is the ridiculous difference in vaccine uptakes between Eastern and Western Europe.
In the West, you have Iceland (90% of adults with at least one jab) and the UK (89%) leading the pack, with Belgium (83%) and the Netherlands (82%) not far behind. Germany, France, Italy and Spain are in a group behind at between 67% and 75%.
Now look to the East... Latvia is at only 42%, Romania at 31% (which is basically identical to the number double jabbed), while Bulgaria is at a barely believable 18% and jabbing has basically ground to a halt there.
The East is going to get hammered by Delta.
For different reasons both the UK and the EU were lucky in their vaccine rollouts. The UK was lucky the EU didn't block vaccine exports as the US and India have done, given half of the UK administered vaccines originate in the EU. It would otherwise be dependent on Chinese vaccines as the only other major exporter. The EU was lucky to have over-invested in Pfizer/Biontech, which was the jackpot winner in the vaccine stakes for speed to market, good production ramp-up and no major side effects so far.
To @alex_'s point, I don't think money is the issue for countries like Romania who haven't managed to find willing recipients for the vaccines they do have and are now selling the leftovers to places like Denmark.
Ah lucky the eu didn't block legally ordered and contracted for medecines because they failed their own people by ordering late and signing crap contracts.....aren't you one of the first to complain if you think the uk is doing that sort of thing?
On topic, how reliable do we think a poll taken on a (very nice) Sunday is? @Isam always says that the politically engaged are always over represented in polls; it may be even more true for this one.
One sign @isam is right about the politically-engaged being over-represented in polls is that a lot of MPs declare receiving payments from the polling companies. It may be these are for special MP-only surveys but I doubt it. Another sign is that we used to see a lot of PBers post on here that they had just completed a poll (although not so much recently).
I think the Tweet is unpleasant so I don't agree with that but Johnson doesn't look well at all, again? It can't be an easy job whatever my misgivings with Johnson himself - but he doesn't look well
On your point (not the Tweet) I'd have thought that Mr Johnson was only too well aware of his hero's final term in office.
If the Prime Minister relies on that leading biography, The Churchill Factor, by Boris Johnson, he may well be entirely unaware of Churchill's second term in office. So far as I can see from skimming the table of contents, it is not mentioned, let alone covered.
Now that is very, very interesting indeed.
The chapter headings are so vague I think it's hard to come to that conclusion without actually reading it.
For some unaccountable reason I do not wish to shell out £0.99 on amazon.co.uk and rather more importantly the time spent in reading it. Maybe some kind PBer could advise us?
That's fair enough. I was just pointing out it's probably not safe to jump to that conclusion without actually having read it.
After lamenting about edinburgh's piss poor vaccine numbers a couple of months ago it looks like the populace has got their finger out, up to 82% first vax which is a massive improvement.
But for 1st vax numbers no one can hold a candle to East Dunbartonshire at a stinking 96.8%!
In Uxbridge West - I presume at least partly in the Prime Minister's constituency, the first dose vaccination rate is ... 52.9%. In Stamford Hill South it's 44.6%.
There does seem to have been a failure in the government's ability to convince some people to accept the vaccine.
Johnson says he only ‘briefly’ considered not isolating: Boris Johnson says he only looked “briefly into the idea” of avoiding self-isolation through a daily contact testing pilot after being pinged by NHS test and trace.
He considered long enough to
1. issue a press release saying they were doing it 2. send a minister on all the morning shows to defend them doing it.
BoZo thinks the people who vote for him are idiots.
He also treats his staff like shit. Philip Thompson is working 14 hour days and hasn't had a day off including week ends since Johnson took over
I hope he's asked for a raise, he's doing a good job
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
People who moan about the headers on PB are free, presumably, to post elsewhere.
The PB Tory supply is inexhaustible, so they won’t be missed.
I was just pointing out the lack of balance which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. You will be pleased to know my posting on the site has reduced to almost zero. I hope it keeps you happy.
I too have been swamped by left wingery on this site. As the leading social liberal centre moderate on this site I have applied to DWP for a benefit to be able to continue to post here.
More seriously the site's direction is hard left but it is still the best site and allows posting from moderates like me and you so keep posting! ♥️
The site is not hard left. It is generally an excellent place to be, tolerant, amusing, and exceedingly well informed
However they could do with a couple more loyal Tories - or Borisovites - to write threaders. 43% of the country still supports the PM, you would never know that from PB
And constantly banning articulate reasonable right wingers like Isam is, I feel, an error
But this site is all available for free, and it is better than any other chat forum I know. So, there's that, too
Moderation is the site owners prerogative.
I yawn at the site with every successive anti Boris thread. There really is no point in arguing with the twitterati types. They love bashing Boris. If it makes them happy, I will leave them to it except for commenting occasionally.
When you get comments insulting Boris as a prelude to the main assault.. there really is no point.
I have had a wonderful week.in the Lake District. The Telly has been off bar the last ten mins of the Challenge Cup Final. Huzzah. Saints won.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
I don't think that's true - I think Denmark is more open than the UK.
Debateable as it stands, but 100% definitely not the case as of midnight.
In Denmark you can't enter a gym, or attend any organised indoor sport events without a Corona Passport. In the UK you've been able to attend a gym without a Covid passport.
In Denmark you need a Corona Passport to enter restraurants, cafes and bars. You don't in the UK. In Denmark all restaraunts, cafes and bars much close no later than 2am.
In Denmark for massages, haircuts and tattoos etc you must present a Covid Passport. You don't in the UK.
In Denmark you can't enter a museum, amusement park, cinema, venues, zoos, stadiums or other sport venues without a corona passport. You can in the UK.
In Denmark all discos and nightclubs are closed, they will be open tonight in the UK.
In Denmark its illegal to have indoor events and activities of more than 250 people, all such restrictions are being abolished in the UK.
In Denmark a face mask is legally required on public transport. Its not in the UK from tomorrow.
Taking of which, Sweden now seems to be the only EU member not having a 3rd wave, (cases staying at 200-250 a day)
Perhaps, that's just luck and it will start to rise next week, or maybe that's because lots of young people including under 18s had it asymptomatically in the earlier wayvs and therefor have a level of antibody/T Cell immunity, which in conjunction with the Vaccines in the Old and middle-aged.
Anybody else with 17 months hindsight wish we had taken the Swedish approach?
Yes, like Sweden we should have shut down international travel early.
Sweden restricted international travel later than we did, they were practically the last place in the would to do that.
No, sweden restricted international flights on the 18th of march 2020.
Apologies, decision taken on the 17th, restriction in place on the 19th
I think the Tweet is unpleasant so I don't agree with that but Johnson doesn't look well at all, again? It can't be an easy job whatever my misgivings with Johnson himself - but he doesn't look well
On your point (not the Tweet) I'd have thought that Mr Johnson was only too well aware of his hero's final term in office.
If the Prime Minister relies on that leading biography, The Churchill Factor, by Boris Johnson, he may well be entirely unaware of Churchill's second term in office. So far as I can see from skimming the table of contents, it is not mentioned, let alone covered.
Now that is very, very interesting indeed.
The chapter headings are so vague I think it's hard to come to that conclusion without actually reading it.
For some unaccountable reason I do not wish to shell out £0.99 on amazon.co.uk and rather more importantly the time spent in reading it. Maybe some kind PBer could advise us?
That's fair enough. I was just pointing out it's probably not safe to jump to that conclusion without actually having read it.
Admittedly that 99p is a special offer at present, for a Kindle version. But still.
I think the Tweet is unpleasant so I don't agree with that but Johnson doesn't look well at all, again? It can't be an easy job whatever my misgivings with Johnson himself - but he doesn't look well
On your point (not the Tweet) I'd have thought that Mr Johnson was only too well aware of his hero's final term in office.
If the Prime Minister relies on that leading biography, The Churchill Factor, by Boris Johnson, he may well be entirely unaware of Churchill's second term in office. So far as I can see from skimming the table of contents, it is not mentioned, let alone covered.
Now that is very, very interesting indeed.
The chapter headings are so vague I think it's hard to come to that conclusion without actually reading it.
For some unaccountable reason I do not wish to shell out £0.99 on amazon.co.uk and rather more importantly the time spent in reading it. Maybe some kind PBer could advise us?
To be clear, I do own and have read Boris's The Churchill Factor (along with at least two of his other books) so by that objective measure, and in cash (royalties) terms, I might well be Boris's biggest supporter on PB.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
In California, one needs proof of vaccination against measles (and various other things) to go to public school.
If covid is added to the list of things one is required to be vaccinated against, is that tyranny? Or sanity?
There is a large difference between a one off proof and having to show it everywhere you might want to go. One is more like show me your provisional licence before you can take a driving test....the other is leave house....go to cinema show vaxport...leave cinema...goto restaurant...show vaxport...leave restaurant....goto bar show vaxport multiply by number of days you go out
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
Spain reopened nightclubs in June but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people regions like Catalonia had to impose restrictions on them again.
The case rate amongst young not fully vaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week when UK nightclubs are allowed to reopen restriction free without social distancing and without mandatory facemasks
I'd say it looks a bit sticky for the SNP if they've subsequently spent the money, but it's a bit perverse to complain about money raised for a second referendum campaign not being spent on a second referendum campaign at the same time as preventing a second referendum.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
Spain reopened nightclubs in June but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people regions like Catalonia had to impose restrictions on them again.
The case rate amongst young unvaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week
The case rate from the hordes of stag and hen dos heading from Newcastle to all points today may be an issue. I haven't seen Central Station as busy, even during rush hour on a weekday * as it was at lunch time today. All Parties of 12-30 young, probably not double vaxxed, people after a weekend's debauchery in the Covid capital of the UK. Heading to a station near you.
Johnson says he only ‘briefly’ considered not isolating: Boris Johnson says he only looked “briefly into the idea” of avoiding self-isolation through a daily contact testing pilot after being pinged by NHS test and trace.
He considered long enough to
1. issue a press release saying they were doing it 2. send a minister on all the morning shows to defend them doing it.
BoZo thinks the people who vote for him are idiots.
To be fair, you give the impression of thinking the same thing.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
Spain reopened nightclubs in June but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people regions like Catalonia had to impose restrictions on them again.
The case rate amongst young not fully vaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week when UK nightclubs are allowed to reopen restriction free without social distancing and without mandatory facemasks
Personally I would have required Covid vaccination passports for nightclubs at least if they are going to reopen social distancing and facemask free from midnight tonight
BREAKING Downing St and the Cabinet Office have tonight formally pulled out of the Covid-19 pilot scheme that allowed ministers and civil servants to keep working if they do daily tests. Full story on a day of chaos in The Daily Telegraph tomorrow and on http://telegraph.co.uk
I'd say it looks a bit sticky for the SNP if they've subsequently spent the money, but it's a bit perverse to complain about money raised for a second referendum campaign not being spent on a second referendum campaign at the same time as preventing a second referendum.
I'd say it looks a bit sticky for the SNP if they've subsequently spent the money, but it's a bit perverse to complain about money raised for a second referendum campaign not being spent on a second referendum campaign at the same time as preventing a second referendum.
The police are preventing a second referendum?
I think that's being left to the Epping Fusiliers.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
Spain reopened nightclubs in June but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people regions like Catalonia had to impose restrictions on them again.
The case rate amongst young not fully vaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week when UK nightclubs are allowed to reopen restriction free without social distancing and without mandatory facemasks
I live here - they were never re-opened without restrictions. Here in Andalucía restrictions remained throughout wrt masks, capacity, dancing, etc, etc. The same applies to everything else I said. Whether the measures make sense or not the idea that all restrictions ended or anywhere near ended is utter bullshit. There remains a requirement at all times indoor and outdoors to wear mask on entering places or whenever social distancing is not possible. All staff wear masks at all times. You really need to learn to listen to people who live here before telling us what our rules are.
BREAKING Downing St and the Cabinet Office have tonight formally pulled out of the Covid-19 pilot scheme that allowed ministers and civil servants to keep working if they do daily tests. Full story on a day of chaos in The Daily Telegraph tomorrow and on http://telegraph.co.uk
What a joke.
Has there ever been an individual more unsuited to being PM?
BREAKING Downing St and the Cabinet Office have tonight formally pulled out of the Covid-19 pilot scheme that allowed ministers and civil servants to keep working if they do daily tests. Full story on a day of chaos in The Daily Telegraph tomorrow and on http://telegraph.co.uk
What a joke.
Has there ever been an individual more unsuited to being PM?
May I revive the notion of Mr Nibbles? He at least can be guaranteed to have a suit that fits him. And to look bright-eyed, if somewhat briefly bushy-tailed, at all times.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
Spain reopened nightclubs in June but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people regions like Catalonia had to impose restrictions on them again.
The case rate amongst young not fully vaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week when UK nightclubs are allowed to reopen restriction free without social distancing and without mandatory facemasks
I live here - they were never re-opened without restrictions. Here in Andalucía restrictions remained throughout wrt masks, capacity, dancing, etc, etc. The same applies to everything else I said. Whether the measures make sense or not the idea that all restrictions ended or anywhere near ended is utter bullshit. There remains a requirement at all times indoor and outdoors to wear mask on entering places or whenever social distancing is not possible. All staff wear masks at all times. You really need to learn to listen to people who live here before telling us what our rules are.
The fact is nightclubs were allowed to reopen in Spain over a month ago, well before nightclubs have been allowed to reopen here which is not until midnight tonight. Spanish nightclubs were also allowed to reopen without Covid passports which were required for nightclub reopening in Austria for example.
However the case rate amongst not fully vaccinated young Spaniards surged, even if some restrictions remained in clubs and so Spain had to reverse course and shut its nightclubs again in many regions.
Thus if our nightclubs are reopened tonight without mandatory facemasks, without social distancing and without mandatory Covid passports (which I personally would have required) there is a risk of a surge in cases amongst young British people not yet fully vaccinated who go clubbing
A couple of sleazeballs caught in the act. The sense of entitlement in this government is something we've never seen before and are struggling to get used to
You never commented negatively when it was your man Prescott and Ms Tracy Temple having a dabble...
Sorry; have I misunderstood an important detail of the Johnson-Sunak cock-up?
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
Spain reopened nightclubs in June but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people regions like Catalonia had to impose restrictions on them again.
The case rate amongst young not fully vaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week when UK nightclubs are allowed to reopen restriction free without social distancing and without mandatory facemasks
I live here - they were never re-opened without restrictions. Here in Andalucía restrictions remained throughout wrt masks, capacity, dancing, etc, etc. The same applies to everything else I said. Whether the measures make sense or not the idea that all restrictions ended or anywhere near ended is utter bullshit. There remains a requirement at all times indoor and outdoors to wear mask on entering places or whenever social distancing is not possible. All staff wear masks at all times. You really need to learn to listen to people who live here before telling us what our rules are.
The fact is nightclubs were allowed to reopen in Spain over a month ago, well before nightclubs have been allowed to reopen here which is not until midnight tonight. Nightclubs were also allowed to reopen without Covid passports which were required for nightclub reopening in Austria for example.
However the case rate amongst not fully vaccinated young Spaniards surged, even if some restrictions remained in clubs and so Spain had to reverse course and shut its nightclubs again in many regions.
Thus if our nightclubs are reopened tonight without mandatory facemasks, without social distancing and without mandatory Covid passports there is a risk of a surge in cases amongst young British people not yet fully vaccinated who go clubbing
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
Spain reopened nightclubs in June but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people regions like Catalonia had to impose restrictions on them again.
The case rate amongst young not fully vaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week when UK nightclubs are allowed to reopen restriction free without social distancing and without mandatory facemasks
Foxjr2 has a gap between shows so is planning a night out clubbing in Leicester on Friday. First time in 18 months for the young lad. He likes to get out on the floor.
BREAKING Downing St and the Cabinet Office have tonight formally pulled out of the Covid-19 pilot scheme that allowed ministers and civil servants to keep working if they do daily tests. Full story on a day of chaos in The Daily Telegraph tomorrow and on http://telegraph.co.uk
What a joke.
Has there ever been an individual more unsuited to being PM?
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
I don't think that's true - I think Denmark is more open than the UK.
Debateable as it stands, but 100% definitely not the case as of midnight.
In Denmark you can't enter a gym, or attend any organised indoor sport events without a Corona Passport. In the UK you've been able to attend a gym without a Covid passport.
In Denmark you need a Corona Passport to enter restraurants, cafes and bars. You don't in the UK. In Denmark all restaraunts, cafes and bars much close no later than 2am.
In Denmark for massages, haircuts and tattoos etc you must present a Covid Passport. You don't in the UK.
In Denmark you can't enter a museum, amusement park, cinema, venues, zoos, stadiums or other sport venues without a corona passport. You can in the UK.
In Denmark all discos and nightclubs are closed, they will be open tonight in the UK.
In Denmark its illegal to have indoor events and activities of more than 250 people, all such restrictions are being abolished in the UK.
In Denmark a face mask is legally required on public transport. Its not in the UK from tomorrow.
Taking of which, Sweden now seems to be the only EU member not having a 3rd wave, (cases staying at 200-250 a day)
Perhaps, that's just luck and it will start to rise next week, or maybe that's because lots of young people including under 18s had it asymptomatically in the earlier wayvs and therefor have a level of antibody/T Cell immunity, which in conjunction with the Vaccines in the Old and middle-aged.
Anybody else with 17 months hindsight wish we had taken the Swedish approach?
Yes, like Sweden we should have shut down international travel early.
Sweden restricted international travel later than we did, they were practically the last place in the would to do that.
No, sweden restricted international flights on the 18th of march 2020.
Apologies, decision taken on the 17th, restriction in place on the 19th
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
Spain reopened nightclubs in June but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people regions like Catalonia had to impose restrictions on them again.
The case rate amongst young unvaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week
The case rate from the hordes of stag and hen dos heading from Newcastle to all points today may be an issue. I haven't seen Central Station as busy, even during rush hour on a weekday * as it was at lunch time today. All Parties of 12-30 young, probably not double vaxxed, people after a weekend's debauchery in the Covid capital of the UK. Heading to a station near you.
*Edit. Post -pandemic that is.
Many of whom ha e probably tuned the app off or deleted it or never had it.
BREAKING Downing St and the Cabinet Office have tonight formally pulled out of the Covid-19 pilot scheme that allowed ministers and civil servants to keep working if they do daily tests. Full story on a day of chaos in The Daily Telegraph tomorrow and on http://telegraph.co.uk
What a joke.
Has there ever been an individual more unsuited to being PM?
Wasn't that a scene in Yes, Minister, where Sir Humphrey is plotting to have Jim Hacker elected Prime Minister?
Sir Humphrey: ... after all, there have been less likely Prime Ministers. Chief Whip: Yes. [Pause] Who? Sir Humphrey: Oh, there must have been.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
Spain reopened nightclubs in June but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people regions like Catalonia had to impose restrictions on them again.
The case rate amongst young not fully vaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week when UK nightclubs are allowed to reopen restriction free without social distancing and without mandatory facemasks
I live here - they were never re-opened without restrictions. Here in Andalucía restrictions remained throughout wrt masks, capacity, dancing, etc, etc. The same applies to everything else I said. Whether the measures make sense or not the idea that all restrictions ended or anywhere near ended is utter bullshit. There remains a requirement at all times indoor and outdoors to wear mask on entering places or whenever social distancing is not possible. All staff wear masks at all times. You really need to learn to listen to people who live here before telling us what our rules are.
The fact is nightclubs were allowed to reopen in Spain over a month ago, well before nightclubs have been allowed to reopen here which is not until midnight tonight. Spanish nightclubs were also allowed to reopen without Covid passports which were required for nightclub reopening in Austria for example.
However the case rate amongst not fully vaccinated young Spaniards surged, even if some restrictions remained in clubs and so Spain had to reverse course and shut its nightclubs again in many regions.
Thus if our nightclubs are reopened tonight without mandatory facemasks, without social distancing and without mandatory Covid passports (which I personally would have required) there is a risk of a surge in cases amongst young British people not yet fully vaccinated who go clubbing
You're frankly an idiot when you try to tell people living here what our rules are. Pointless to engage with such a level of stupidity. I know I shouldn't waste my time with someone so pig-headed but it's just so irritating.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
Spain reopened nightclubs in June but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people regions like Catalonia had to impose restrictions on them again.
The case rate amongst young not fully vaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week when UK nightclubs are allowed to reopen restriction free without social distancing and without mandatory facemasks
Foxjr2 has a gap between shows so is planning a night out clubbing in Leicester on Friday. First time in 18 months for the young lad. He likes to get out on the floor.
Should be at 60 000+ cases per day by then...🙄
Good for him.
Its about time that we cease to count cases and to let people like your lad get on with their lives. They've sacrificed enough time already, no need to sacrifice this summer on the altar of "cases".
The MoS printed a story this morning suggesting that Rishi is looking at a tax rise equiv. to 2p on income tax...has been completely overshadowed by the isolation cock-up.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
Spain reopened nightclubs in June but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people regions like Catalonia had to impose restrictions on them again.
The case rate amongst young not fully vaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week when UK nightclubs are allowed to reopen restriction free without social distancing and without mandatory facemasks
I live here - they were never re-opened without restrictions. Here in Andalucía restrictions remained throughout wrt masks, capacity, dancing, etc, etc. The same applies to everything else I said. Whether the measures make sense or not the idea that all restrictions ended or anywhere near ended is utter bullshit. There remains a requirement at all times indoor and outdoors to wear mask on entering places or whenever social distancing is not possible. All staff wear masks at all times. You really need to learn to listen to people who live here before telling us what our rules are.
The fact is nightclubs were allowed to reopen in Spain over a month ago, well before nightclubs have been allowed to reopen here which is not until midnight tonight. Spanish nightclubs were also allowed to reopen without Covid passports which were required for nightclub reopening in Austria for example.
However the case rate amongst not fully vaccinated young Spaniards surged, even if some restrictions remained in clubs and so Spain had to reverse course and shut its nightclubs again in many regions.
Thus if our nightclubs are reopened tonight without mandatory facemasks, without social distancing and without mandatory Covid passports (which I personally would have required) there is a risk of a surge in cases amongst young British people not yet fully vaccinated who go clubbing
You're frankly an idiot when you try to tell people living here what our rules are. Pointless to engage with such a level of stupidity. I know I shouldn't waste my time with someone so pig-headed but it's just so irritating.
The fact is whether you like it or not Spain reopened its nightclubs without requiring mandatory Covid vaccination passports. It did not work so most Spanish regions had to shut them again.
Austria however has only reopened its nightclubs with mandatory Covid vaccination passports and it has worked
The MoS printed a story this morning suggesting that Rishi is looking at a tax rise equiv. to 2p on income tax...has been completely overshadowed by the isolation cock-up.
The MoS printed a story this morning suggesting that Rishi is looking at a tax rise equiv. to 2p on income tax...has been completely overshadowed by the isolation cock-up.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
Spain reopened nightclubs in June but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people regions like Catalonia had to impose restrictions on them again.
The case rate amongst young not fully vaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week when UK nightclubs are allowed to reopen restriction free without social distancing and without mandatory facemasks
Foxjr2 has a gap between shows so is planning a night out clubbing in Leicester on Friday. First time in 18 months for the young lad. He likes to get out on the floor.
Should be at 60 000+ cases per day by then...🙄
This whole notion of 'clubbing' is a bit beyond me. From what I can ascertain it consists of:
a) Having to stand in a queue for no apparent reason b) Having to pay to go through a dark, piss-stained entrance way c) Paying stupid money for pissy drinks d) Being unable to hold a conversation due to the ridiculous volume of music you can't stand e) Struggling to stay awake f) Having to walk home because there are no buses or taxis at 3am
BREAKING Downing St and the Cabinet Office have tonight formally pulled out of the Covid-19 pilot scheme that allowed ministers and civil servants to keep working if they do daily tests. Full story on a day of chaos in The Daily Telegraph tomorrow and on http://telegraph.co.uk
What a joke.
Has there ever been an individual more unsuited to being PM?
Unfortunately yes. Jeremy Corbyn, which is why we have Johnson where he is today.
What advantages have we actually gained? Are we any more free or open than elsewhere in Europe? It doesn't seem like it
Yes we are. We're the most open nation in Europe.
Actually Austria is for the vaccinated, all Austrian bars, restaurants and nightclubs are already reopen for anyone with proof of vaccination without the need for social distancing or a facemask.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
Wrong - it's still a requirement to wear masks entering any restaurant or bar and there are indoor capacity limits. All public transport and all shops and commercial centres require masks at all times. Even in public outside you must have a mask to hand to put on whenever it is not possible to maintain social distance. Any idea that we're back to normal is utter and complete nonsense.
Spain reopened nightclubs in June but because of rising cases amongst unvaccinated young people regions like Catalonia had to impose restrictions on them again.
The case rate amongst young not fully vaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week when UK nightclubs are allowed to reopen restriction free without social distancing and without mandatory facemasks
Foxjr2 has a gap between shows so is planning a night out clubbing in Leicester on Friday. First time in 18 months for the young lad. He likes to get out on the floor.
Should be at 60 000+ cases per day by then...🙄
This whole notion of 'clubbing' is a bit beyond me. From what I can ascertain it consists of:
a) Having to stand in a queue for no apparent reason b) Having to pay to go through a dark, piss-stained entrance way c) Paying stupid money for pissy drinks d) Being unable to hold a conversation due to the ridiculous volume of music you can't stand e) Struggling to stay awake f) Having to walk home because there are no buses or taxis at 3am
BREAKING Downing St and the Cabinet Office have tonight formally pulled out of the Covid-19 pilot scheme that allowed ministers and civil servants to keep working if they do daily tests. Full story on a day of chaos in The Daily Telegraph tomorrow and on http://telegraph.co.uk
What a joke.
Has there ever been an individual more unsuited to being PM?
Unfortunately yes. Jeremy Corbyn, which is why we have Johnson where he is today.
Comments
They pretty much have the same restrictions the UK had in Stage 3 but with the Covid passport in addition too. They're not at UK Stage 4 restrictions even with the passport yet.
At midnight tonight drinkers in bars up and down the UK will be able to go from bars to nightclubs, they won't in Denmark.
I'm back for holiday in the Orkney Islands, very relaxing and interesting, thank you for all the advice given, as to places to see.
Spain was the first nation to reopen all its bars and clubs without restrictions but it had to reimpose restrictions in some regions due to rising cases amongst younger partygoers
https://www.mypartybible.com/where-are-nightclubs-and-bars-open-in-europe-coronavirus-covid
I yawn at the site with every successive anti Boris thread. There really is no point in arguing with the twitterati types. They love bashing Boris. If it makes them happy, I will leave them to it except for commenting occasionally.
When you get comments insulting Boris as a prelude to the main assault.. there really is no point.
I have had a wonderful week.in the Lake District. The Telly has been off bar the last ten mins of the Challenge Cup Final. Huzzah. Saints won.
https://www.visitstockholm.com/travel-info/coronavirus-covid-19-information-visitors
Taking of which, Sweden now seems to be the only EU member not having a 3rd wave, (cases staying at 200-250 a day)
Perhaps, that's just luck and it will start to rise next week, or maybe that's because lots of young people including under 18s had it asymptomatically in the earlier wayvs and therefor have a level of antibody/T Cell immunity, which in conjunction with the Vaccines in the Old and middle-aged.
Anybody else with 17 months hindsight wish we had taken the Swedish approach?
Refuse interviews and hide in a fridge.
We've just had a detailed conversation explaining in bulk how the UK is much further ahead than everyone else in Europe (as of midnight tonight) and we already were ahead of almost everyone else before then even.
And your response to that is to turn around and say "in short we're no further ahead"?
You just have a predetermined outcome in your mind and the truth doesn't matter an iota to you, does it?
Edit: if indeed they did. I can't remember that far back.
To @alex_'s point, I don't think money is the issue for countries like Romania who haven't managed to find willing recipients for the vaccines they do have and are now selling the leftovers to places like Denmark.
The biggest "third wave" timing indicator is simply the number of seeded Delta cases.
He thought he was going to get away with telling them he didn't need to isolate.
If covid is added to the list of things one is required to be vaccinated against, is that tyranny? Or sanity?
There does seem to have been a failure in the government's ability to convince some people to accept the vaccine.
Stains?
https://www.government.se/press-releases/2020/03/temporary-ban-on-travel-to-sweden-due-to-covid-19/
The "temporary" ban was still in place in October and was extended IIRC.
I like her enough to just think we shouldn't care.
https://www.mypartybible.com/where-are-nightclubs-and-bars-open-in-europe-coronavirus-covid
The case rate amongst young not fully vaccinated clubbers in the big UK cities is where the biggest problem is likely to be from next week when UK nightclubs are allowed to reopen restriction free without social distancing and without mandatory facemasks
The ancients had much wisdom to share with us.
Also penis imagery.
"The funding that was raised during the period of the ref.scot crowdfunder will only be used for the specific purpose of a referendum campaign."
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15345394.snp-forced-reassure-donors-money-raised-fight-second-referendum-campaign-will-frozen-partys-accounts/
I'd say it looks a bit sticky for the SNP if they've subsequently spent the money, but it's a bit perverse to complain about money raised for a second referendum campaign not being spent on a second referendum campaign at the same time as preventing a second referendum.
I haven't seen Central Station as busy, even during rush hour on a weekday * as it was at lunch time today.
All Parties of 12-30 young, probably not double vaxxed, people after a weekend's debauchery in the Covid capital of the UK.
Heading to a station near you.
*Edit. Post -pandemic that is.
Full story on a day of chaos in The Daily Telegraph tomorrow and on http://telegraph.co.uk
Has there ever been an individual more unsuited to being PM?
However the case rate amongst not fully vaccinated young Spaniards surged, even if some restrictions remained in clubs and so Spain had to reverse course and shut its nightclubs again in many regions.
Thus if our nightclubs are reopened tonight without mandatory facemasks, without social distancing and without mandatory Covid passports (which I personally would have required) there is a risk of a surge in cases amongst young British people not yet fully vaccinated who go clubbing
Should be at 60 000+ cases per day by then...🙄
However, it does seem that my post was inaccurate,
Katie Hopkins deported from Australia
Deputy PM of Australia Barnaby Joyce said:
'We've got no problem sending home someone who flouts our laws. You can pack your bonga and get out of our country'
#BigBrotherAU #bigbrothervip #freedomdayUK https://t.co/tb8GkTbFhT
Sir Humphrey: ... after all, there have been less likely Prime Ministers.
Chief Whip: Yes. [Pause] Who?
Sir Humphrey: Oh, there must have been.
But what on Earth were they thinking in the first place??
Its about time that we cease to count cases and to let people like your lad get on with their lives. They've sacrificed enough time already, no need to sacrifice this summer on the altar of "cases".
https://www.reuters.com/world/australia-investigates-britains-katie-hopkins-over-quarantine-video-2021-07-18/
Austria however has only reopened its nightclubs with mandatory Covid vaccination passports and it has worked
£15bn a year.
I just noticed in Gibraltar, they literally tell you every new case, what age, vaccination status, resident or visitor.
a) Having to stand in a queue for no apparent reason
b) Having to pay to go through a dark, piss-stained entrance way
c) Paying stupid money for pissy drinks
d) Being unable to hold a conversation due to the ridiculous volume of music you can't stand
e) Struggling to stay awake
f) Having to walk home because there are no buses or taxis at 3am
Have I missed anything?