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Suddenly pinging it becomes the main COVID story – politicalbetting.com

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  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    No - its a stupid thing to have no gradation between only leaving your house once a day for exercise in lockdown and having a limit (that no one is checking or observing) on house guests, who are allowed to stay overnight etc and calling it lockdown.
    Yes - there are still legal restrictions on our lives that would have horrified all of us in 2019, but these are extraordinary times. No - we are not in lockdown still.

    I am using lockdown as a generic term to denote those restrictions on liberty.

    We are still in lockdown.
    I think lockdown should not be used in that way - you do see the difference don't you? You can go to the pub or restaurant, go to work, see a movie, see a play, go to watch sport. The list goes on. This is not consistent with lockdown (see March 2020 for details).
    Exactly. Lockdown was "you must stay at home". Being able to go on holiday or to the beach with your friends or on a pissed up flare in anus rampage is not "lockdown".
    Bet that bloke with a rocket up his arse won't be wearing a mask in Tesco.
    My chrome new page news feed keeps showing me pics of Danielle westbrook then and now. You couldn't imagine a clearer incentive to keep away from the cocaine.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stocky said:

    Genuine question.

    What do RP and his fellow travellers do when invited to a friend’s barbecue, or a wedding, or a birthday party at the pub?

    Do they decline the invitation?

    If asked to go on holiday with a few friends, would they go?

    Do they send their children to school?

    I have no idea what their real lives must be like, as unless it’s all an act they seem to be in an eternal state of extreme fearfulness.

    1. BBQ yes, done
    2. Wedding haven't been invited but yes
    3. Pub yes, done
    4. Kids in school yes, done

    What are you on about? "Extreme fearfulness" is as stupid as your previous "lockdown forever". Nobody is arguing for that.
    Restrictions forever are being argued for. I cannot understand why you - a liberal - are not more sensitive to this. see:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-masks-continue-sage-scientist-b1863955.html
    Because he's not a liberal, he's a Liberal Democrat.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    Pagan2 said:

    A thought on the polls saying a majority support restrictions still

    Less than half the country downloaded the app (25 million). Of those only 2/3 activated the app (16 million) and that 2/3 includes those who activated the app then turned off tracing or have since removed the app.

    Judge what people really think by what they do not what they say seems something to consider

    Source
    https://www.publictechnology.net/articles/news/data-suggests-millions-users-have-not-enabled-nhs-contact-tracing-app

    Do you need to have the app to remain socially distanced or wear a mask or not go on a million pissheads march down Wembley Way? Using or not using the app is not the same following the restrictions on gatherings and masks etc etc

    It points out that a lot of people are pretty not much using anti covid measures available. If they are concerned they will have the app. If they are unconcerned I wouldn't have much faith they are obeying the other things either. Remember the figure for how many actually isolated when meant to do so was only about 20%. Frankly I look at what people are doing not what they are telling pollsters and all the evidence points to they are lying through their teeth
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    No - its a stupid thing to have no gradation between only leaving your house once a day for exercise in lockdown and having a limit (that no one is checking or observing) on house guests, who are allowed to stay overnight etc and calling it lockdown.
    Yes - there are still legal restrictions on our lives that would have horrified all of us in 2019, but these are extraordinary times. No - we are not in lockdown still.

    I am using lockdown as a generic term to denote those restrictions on liberty.

    We are still in lockdown.
    I think lockdown should not be used in that way - you do see the difference don't you? You can go to the pub or restaurant, go to work, see a movie, see a play, go to watch sport. The list goes on. This is not consistent with lockdown (see March 2020 for details).
    Exactly. Lockdown was "you must stay at home". Being able to go on holiday or to the beach with your friends or on a pissed up flare in anus rampage is not "lockdown".
    You and @turbotubbs are carving your initials on one tree. We are in the woods.

    "Lockdown" evolves. It is illegal for you to invite more than six people into your home.

    What would you call that? You have until Monday (in England) to respond.
    If 6 people can come from their homes to my home in what way are they locked down?
    Point of order.

    They can’t under the law, unless you yourself and everyone in your family vacate the premises.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    No - its a stupid thing to have no gradation between only leaving your house once a day for exercise in lockdown and having a limit (that no one is checking or observing) on house guests, who are allowed to stay overnight etc and calling it lockdown.
    Yes - there are still legal restrictions on our lives that would have horrified all of us in 2019, but these are extraordinary times. No - we are not in lockdown still.

    I am using lockdown as a generic term to denote those restrictions on liberty.

    We are still in lockdown.
    I think lockdown should not be used in that way - you do see the difference don't you? You can go to the pub or restaurant, go to work, see a movie, see a play, go to watch sport. The list goes on. This is not consistent with lockdown (see March 2020 for details).
    Exactly. Lockdown was "you must stay at home". Being able to go on holiday or to the beach with your friends or on a pissed up flare in anus rampage is not "lockdown".
    Bet that bloke with a rocket up his arse won't be wearing a mask in Tesco.
    Maybe he was trying an extreme form of... sterilisation?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575

    Fishing said:

    Genuine question.

    What do RP and his fellow travellers do when invited to a friend’s barbecue, or a wedding, or a birthday party at the pub?

    Do they decline the invitation?

    If asked to go on holiday with a few friends, would they go?

    Do they send their children to school?

    I have no idea what their real lives must be like, as unless it’s all an act they seem to be in an eternal state of extreme fearfulness.

    On the assumption the SAGE people and others advising the government know more about it than me, I try to follow the rules. I'm not a virologist, an epidemiologist or an atmospheric physicist.

    Trouble is, HMG has gone cakeist. It is lifting all the restrictions but still wants them observed by the public and reimposed by businesses.
    Imagine that, a government that trusts the judgement of the people that elected it.
    Imagine that, the people are in general not qualified to judge which is why we have SAGE, JCVI and the rest of the alphabet soup.
    Absolutely. Expecting people to use their judgement is wrong.

    All restrictions should be enshrined in law and enforced by armed police. Which discretion or exception.

    For your own safety, Cressida Dick will "Learn lessons" about why you were shot for sneezing in a public street.
    Motorway speed limits. The government does not leave it to drivers' judgements, nor does it shoot those doing 80 in the middle lane.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    The war situation has developed not necessarily to our advantage.


    To answer the Spectator's question: I think the Tories failed to listen to the players' own explanation for why they were taking the knee. If they had listened and taken the players seriously they would have seen that taking the opposite side would land them in hot water, because most reasonable people listening to what the players were saying with an open mind would be on their side.
    Why didn't they do that? Snobbishness is probably part of the story. When Southgate penned his excellent and moving "Dear England" letter, there were complaints from Downing Street suggesting it must have been ghostwritten. Because obviously nobody in football (not even a man intelligent enough to have been tasked with managing the national team) could be smart enough to write in proper English, right? The reflexive elitism of the English ruling class is a problem.
    The other obvious explanation is that they are just unaware or deliberately blind to the extent of racism in English society, and so are conditioned to downplay the very thing that the England players were protesting against. If you don't think racism is a problem, you will tend to assume that anti-racist actions are just 'gesture politics' or 'wokery'.
    I sincerely hope the Tories learn something from this because we need as many people as possible to be on board in the fight to create a society free from the poison of racism, and the comments coming from the Cabinet, right from the top in fact, on this topic were unhelpful towards that cause, in my opinion.
    Plus some political calculation imo. An unwillingness to get on the wrong side of a significant part of their base - those who (for whatever reason) are so intensely irritated by the Knee as to be psychologically onside with the booing of it at the football.

    Having played the 'culture war' for votes, the Cons are stuck with the voters who delivered those votes. They can't just abandon them. Hence the prevarication over that issue. The PM unable to quickly and clearly condemn a bunch of racists booing the England football team. Amazing really when you think about it.

    And it would probably have worked out ok for them but for the 3 black players missing from the spot in the final. Cue the inevitable torrent of racial abuse on social media and then all the obfuscating crap melts away and the issue can be seen as the black/white, good/bad, dark/light one it really is.

    So - rotten luck for the Tories here.
    And yet a 13 point lead in the poll yesterday....and past 5 polls no change in their average vote share, with average lead of ~9-10 points.

    Given Hancock scandal, rising covid cases that are scaring people, its quite something they are still so far ahead, and no sign Labour are picking up. Its Lib Dems that seem to be nicking a few points from here and there.
    Tory voters used to have alternatives. The LDs were a centrist place to go. Then UKIP, Brexit and all that on the centre right in addition in more recent times.

    Now it is fairly clear the LDs would not prop up a Tory government but would sustain a centre left one. So there is only one place to go if you think there are reasons to keep the centre right in and the Labour party + its rainbow coalition out. I think this explains the stickiness of the Tory figures. To have no political friends is a twist or bust policy, but it concentrates the mind.

    The other thing is that the centre left incursion into Tory ground is massively exaggerated. It does not match the revolution happening in the north and midlands.

    Indeed - the south contains many, many bastions of elderly voters and l/w/c voters - the Medway towns come to mind. The affluent educates south has more voters than the affluent educated north but not enough I suspect.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    Stocky said:

    Genuine question.

    What do RP and his fellow travellers do when invited to a friend’s barbecue, or a wedding, or a birthday party at the pub?

    Do they decline the invitation?

    If asked to go on holiday with a few friends, would they go?

    Do they send their children to school?

    I have no idea what their real lives must be like, as unless it’s all an act they seem to be in an eternal state of extreme fearfulness.

    1. BBQ yes, done
    2. Wedding haven't been invited but yes
    3. Pub yes, done
    4. Kids in school yes, done

    What are you on about? "Extreme fearfulness" is as stupid as your previous "lockdown forever". Nobody is arguing for that.
    Restrictions forever are being argued for. I cannot understand why you - a liberal - are not more sensitive to this. see:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-masks-continue-sage-scientist-b1863955.html
    Lol you know who she is? She was probably arguing for masks forever before Covid.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited July 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    No - its a stupid thing to have no gradation between only leaving your house once a day for exercise in lockdown and having a limit (that no one is checking or observing) on house guests, who are allowed to stay overnight etc and calling it lockdown.
    Yes - there are still legal restrictions on our lives that would have horrified all of us in 2019, but these are extraordinary times. No - we are not in lockdown still.

    I am using lockdown as a generic term to denote those restrictions on liberty.

    We are still in lockdown.
    I think lockdown should not be used in that way - you do see the difference don't you? You can go to the pub or restaurant, go to work, see a movie, see a play, go to watch sport. The list goes on. This is not consistent with lockdown (see March 2020 for details).
    Exactly. Lockdown was "you must stay at home". Being able to go on holiday or to the beach with your friends or on a pissed up flare in anus rampage is not "lockdown".
    Bet that bloke with a rocket up his arse won't be wearing a mask in Tesco.
    My chrome new page news feed keeps showing me pics of Danielle westbrook then and now. You couldn't imagine a clearer incentive to keep away from the cocaine.
    The widespread use of coke seems to be something the media don't go near....acting with total shock and outrage when a pob lookalike politician is found to have tried a line or two.

    Its has now transitioned from the party drug of the rich and famous to the widespread use among the plebs. It wasn't just flare yobbo off his tits on it on Sunday, you could see the telltale signs of it in lots of the snapshot videos.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    No - its a stupid thing to have no gradation between only leaving your house once a day for exercise in lockdown and having a limit (that no one is checking or observing) on house guests, who are allowed to stay overnight etc and calling it lockdown.
    Yes - there are still legal restrictions on our lives that would have horrified all of us in 2019, but these are extraordinary times. No - we are not in lockdown still.

    I am using lockdown as a generic term to denote those restrictions on liberty.

    We are still in lockdown.
    I think lockdown should not be used in that way - you do see the difference don't you? You can go to the pub or restaurant, go to work, see a movie, see a play, go to watch sport. The list goes on. This is not consistent with lockdown (see March 2020 for details).
    Exactly. Lockdown was "you must stay at home". Being able to go on holiday or to the beach with your friends or on a pissed up flare in anus rampage is not "lockdown".
    You and @turbotubbs are carving your initials on one tree. We are in the woods.

    "Lockdown" evolves. It is illegal for you to invite more than six people into your home.

    What would you call that? You have until Monday (in England) to respond.
    If 6 people can come from their homes to my home in what way are they locked down?
    It is illegal for more than six people to meet indoors. They are "locked down". Or call it what you want as I mentioned I'm not fussed. What would you call it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    A thought on the polls saying a majority support restrictions still

    Less than half the country downloaded the app (25 million). Of those only 2/3 activated the app (16 million) and that 2/3 includes those who activated the app then turned off tracing or have since removed the app.

    Judge what people really think by what they do not what they say seems something to consider

    Source
    https://www.publictechnology.net/articles/news/data-suggests-millions-users-have-not-enabled-nhs-contact-tracing-app

    Do you need to have the app to remain socially distanced or wear a mask or not go on a million pissheads march down Wembley Way? Using or not using the app is not the same following the restrictions on gatherings and masks etc etc

    It points out that a lot of people are pretty not much using anti covid measures available. If they are concerned they will have the app. If they are unconcerned I wouldn't have much faith they are obeying the other things either. Remember the figure for how many actually isolated when meant to do so was only about 20%. Frankly I look at what people are doing not what they are telling pollsters and all the evidence points to they are lying through their teeth
    Fair point. Throughout this shitshow all the evidence is that people support restrictions on other people, but fail to follow them themselves.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690
    I have a private bet standing that the Uk will not enter a new lockdown, as defined by pubs and restaurants closing inside again. What are my chances do you think?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    moonshine said:

    I have a private bet standing that the Uk will not enter a new lockdown, as defined by pubs and restaurants closing inside again. What are my chances do you think?

    The UK? I don't know. Nicola might do that.

    England? Excellent. Not a snowball's chance in hell of that happening again.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848
    A slight aside on the subject of track and trace, a friend was telling us last night that he reckons he has managed to get an annoying neighbour isolating 3 or 4 times already by signing in as him wherever he goes. Apparently said neighbour has been ranting about useless track and trace telling him to self isolate because of contact in places he has never been.

    I guess track and trace does have a use
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,360
    I never downloaded the app. But if I had, then having been jabbed twice, I would certainly now be deleting that app. I expect millions to take the same stance.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale doesn't even believe in the rules himself.

    He hates the Tories and wants to attack the Prime Minister. That's all he cares about.

    The PM could be saying "free cupcakes for everyone, I've paid for them myself" and he'd say "but what about dentists?"
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    moonshine said:

    I have a private bet standing that the Uk will not enter a new lockdown, as defined by pubs and restaurants closing inside again. What are my chances do you think?

    I agree actually. Once all adults are double vaxxed (soon) there is simply no moral justification for it. So yes, I would be on your side of the wager.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Pagan2 said:

    A slight aside on the subject of track and trace, a friend was telling us last night that he reckons he has managed to get an annoying neighbour isolating 3 or 4 times already by signing in as him wherever he goes. Apparently said neighbour has been ranting about useless track and trace telling him to self isolate because of contact in places he has never been.

    I guess track and trace does have a use

    How very odd. Surely he doesn't want the annoying neighbour at home?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    Genuine question.

    What do RP and his fellow travellers do when invited to a friend’s barbecue, or a wedding, or a birthday party at the pub?

    Do they decline the invitation?

    If asked to go on holiday with a few friends, would they go?

    Do they send their children to school?

    I have no idea what their real lives must be like, as unless it’s all an act they seem to be in an eternal state of extreme fearfulness.

    1. BBQ yes, done
    2. Wedding haven't been invited but yes
    3. Pub yes, done
    4. Kids in school yes, done

    What are you on about? "Extreme fearfulness" is as stupid as your previous "lockdown forever". Nobody is arguing for that.
    I’m glad to hear that. So in which case it’s fair to say you support restrictions on others but not on yourself or your friends?
    Huh? BBQ. Friend's house. In the garden. Within restrictions. Pub. Masks when not at table. With friends. Within restrictions. Schools obviously.

    So I ask again, what are you on about?
    So you agree with going to the pub and wearing a mask while walking to the loo but not when seated?
    Yes. And on the train when not eating / drinking. Any barrier is better than no barrier. And there is the difference between us - you are an absolutist, I am a pragmatist.

    Not that any of this matters. You and the other absolutists only reinforce people's hesitancy which makes the absolute freedom you want go even further off.

    Someone posted that they volunteer on a steam railway, and they can't afford to keep operating with 64 seat capacity per coach cut to 20. I sympathise, but if 20 people aren't coming this week when you have to wear a mask, 64 aren't going to come next week when you don't.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    moonshine said:

    I have a private bet standing that the Uk will not enter a new lockdown, as defined by pubs and restaurants closing inside again. What are my chances do you think?

    The UK? I don't know. Nicola might do that.

    England? Excellent. Not a snowball's chance in hell of that happening again.
    Sorry yes, I meant England too 🤦‍♂️ Apologies.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    slade said:

    felix said:

    The Tory 'decline' in the polls is now being reflected in local elections results.... :smiley:


    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    24m
    Tividale (Sandwell) result:

    CON: 52.6% (+20.7)
    LAB: 43.2% (-13.7)
    IND: 2.1% (+2.1)
    LDEM: 1.6% (+1.6)
    TUSC: 0.5% (+0.5)

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    No Grn (-11.3) as prev.
    Chgs. w/ 2018

    The Lib Dem score was good
    They did however gain a seat from the Conservatives ( by 1 vote) in a parish council election in Telford.
    A thread header is required on the collapse of the Tory vote in Telford
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848
    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    A slight aside on the subject of track and trace, a friend was telling us last night that he reckons he has managed to get an annoying neighbour isolating 3 or 4 times already by signing in as him wherever he goes. Apparently said neighbour has been ranting about useless track and trace telling him to self isolate because of contact in places he has never been.

    I guess track and trace does have a use

    How very odd. Surely he doesn't want the annoying neighbour at home?
    I think its more the neighbour is annoying because he did something once back in the mists of time and has never been forgiven type that a persistent action he does
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale doesn't even believe in the rules himself.

    He hates the Tories and wants to attack the Prime Minister. That's all he cares about.

    The PM could be saying "free cupcakes for everyone, I've paid for them myself" and he'd say "but what about dentists?"
    Fuck dentists. Evil sadistic bastards the lot of them.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    Genuine question.

    What do RP and his fellow travellers do when invited to a friend’s barbecue, or a wedding, or a birthday party at the pub?

    Do they decline the invitation?

    If asked to go on holiday with a few friends, would they go?

    Do they send their children to school?

    I have no idea what their real lives must be like, as unless it’s all an act they seem to be in an eternal state of extreme fearfulness.

    1. BBQ yes, done
    2. Wedding haven't been invited but yes
    3. Pub yes, done
    4. Kids in school yes, done

    What are you on about? "Extreme fearfulness" is as stupid as your previous "lockdown forever". Nobody is arguing for that.
    I’m glad to hear that. So in which case it’s fair to say you support restrictions on others but not on yourself or your friends?
    Huh? BBQ. Friend's house. In the garden. Within restrictions. Pub. Masks when not at table. With friends. Within restrictions. Schools obviously.

    So I ask again, what are you on about?
    So you agree with going to the pub and wearing a mask while walking to the loo but not when seated?
    Yes. And on the train when not eating / drinking. Any barrier is better than no barrier. And there is the difference between us - you are an absolutist, I am a pragmatist.

    Not that any of this matters. You and the other absolutists only reinforce people's hesitancy which makes the absolute freedom you want go even further off.

    Someone posted that they volunteer on a steam railway, and they can't afford to keep operating with 64 seat capacity per coach cut to 20. I sympathise, but if 20 people aren't coming this week when you have to wear a mask, 64 aren't going to come next week when you don't.
    Unless those people aren't coming because its not an enjoyable experience if you have to wear a mask.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    edited July 2021

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    Who is saying this? Another straw man! The rules are relaxed here on Monday anyway. I’m keeping to the rules as best I can until then.

    However, I fully support the relaxation.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    I couldn't give a hairy crack of a rat's arse if Pagel, Chris, Rochdale or anyone else is terrified. Let them take personal responsibility for themselves and cower away until the end of time if they want to do so. OCD and phobias are nothing new.

    I have an issue when people try to project their irrational phobias onto others, compelling others to wear a mask or hide away or do anything else by law.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Fishing said:

    Genuine question.

    What do RP and his fellow travellers do when invited to a friend’s barbecue, or a wedding, or a birthday party at the pub?

    Do they decline the invitation?

    If asked to go on holiday with a few friends, would they go?

    Do they send their children to school?

    I have no idea what their real lives must be like, as unless it’s all an act they seem to be in an eternal state of extreme fearfulness.

    On the assumption the SAGE people and others advising the government know more about it than me, I try to follow the rules. I'm not a virologist, an epidemiologist or an atmospheric physicist.

    Trouble is, HMG has gone cakeist. It is lifting all the restrictions but still wants them observed by the public and reimposed by businesses.
    Imagine that, a government that trusts the judgement of the people that elected it.
    Imagine that, the people are in general not qualified to judge which is why we have SAGE, JCVI and the rest of the alphabet soup.
    Absolutely. Expecting people to use their judgement is wrong.

    All restrictions should be enshrined in law and enforced by armed police. Which discretion or exception.

    For your own safety, Cressida Dick will "Learn lessons" about why you were shot for sneezing in a public street.
    Motorway speed limits. The government does not leave it to drivers' judgements, nor does it shoot those doing 80 in the middle lane.
    Actually it very largely does leave it to judgement - hence the lack of prosecutions for doing 80 on a motorway.

    In the case of the real issue with motorway safety - bad driving, tail gating etc, there is essentially no enforcement. Apart from recommendations in the Highway Code.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Genuine question.

    What do RP and his fellow travellers do when invited to a friend’s barbecue, or a wedding, or a birthday party at the pub?

    Do they decline the invitation?

    If asked to go on holiday with a few friends, would they go?

    Do they send their children to school?

    I have no idea what their real lives must be like, as unless it’s all an act they seem to be in an eternal state of extreme fearfulness.

    1. BBQ yes, done
    2. Wedding haven't been invited but yes
    3. Pub yes, done
    4. Kids in school yes, done

    What are you on about? "Extreme fearfulness" is as stupid as your previous "lockdown forever". Nobody is arguing for that.
    I’m glad to hear that. So in which case it’s fair to say you support restrictions on others but not on yourself or your friends?
    Huh? BBQ. Friend's house. In the garden. Within restrictions. Pub. Masks when not at table. With friends. Within restrictions. Schools obviously.

    So I ask again, what are you on about?
    So you agree with going to the pub and wearing a mask while walking to the loo but not when seated?
    Yes. And on the train when not eating / drinking. Any barrier is better than no barrier. And there is the difference between us - you are an absolutist, I am a pragmatist.

    Not that any of this matters. You and the other absolutists only reinforce people's hesitancy which makes the absolute freedom you want go even further off.

    Someone posted that they volunteer on a steam railway, and they can't afford to keep operating with 64 seat capacity per coach cut to 20. I sympathise, but if 20 people aren't coming this week when you have to wear a mask, 64 aren't going to come next week when you don't.
    Where do you get this idea that I’m an absolutist? I follow the rules as best I can, yet support their relaxation.

    I’d have been fine with masks continuing on public transport for a while. They are in London in any case.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    Genuine question.

    What do RP and his fellow travellers do when invited to a friend’s barbecue, or a wedding, or a birthday party at the pub?

    Do they decline the invitation?

    If asked to go on holiday with a few friends, would they go?

    Do they send their children to school?

    I have no idea what their real lives must be like, as unless it’s all an act they seem to be in an eternal state of extreme fearfulness.

    1. BBQ yes, done
    2. Wedding haven't been invited but yes
    3. Pub yes, done
    4. Kids in school yes, done

    What are you on about? "Extreme fearfulness" is as stupid as your previous "lockdown forever". Nobody is arguing for that.
    I’m glad to hear that. So in which case it’s fair to say you support restrictions on others but not on yourself or your friends?
    Huh? BBQ. Friend's house. In the garden. Within restrictions. Pub. Masks when not at table. With friends. Within restrictions. Schools obviously.

    So I ask again, what are you on about?
    So you agree with going to the pub and wearing a mask while walking to the loo but not when seated?
    Yes. And on the train when not eating / drinking. Any barrier is better than no barrier. And there is the difference between us - you are an absolutist, I am a pragmatist.

    Not that any of this matters. You and the other absolutists only reinforce people's hesitancy which makes the absolute freedom you want go even further off.

    Someone posted that they volunteer on a steam railway, and they can't afford to keep operating with 64 seat capacity per coach cut to 20. I sympathise, but if 20 people aren't coming this week when you have to wear a mask, 64 aren't going to come next week when you don't.
    I went on a steam special from Woking to Weymouth last Friday. I felt sorry for the on-board stewards who felt they have to wear a mask, but none of the punters bothered with wearing a mask.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,214
    Pretty scary numbers in this BBC COVID article: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57840825

    "The research showed that 13% of 19 to 29 year olds and 17% of 30 to 39 year olds hospitalised with Covid were unable to look after themselves at discharge and had to rely on friends and family."

    That is from studies pre-vaccine & pre-variants... don't know whether it would still apply to those hospitalized nowadays after vaccination.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    Who is saying this? Another straw msn! The rules are relaxed here on Monday anyway. I’m keeping to the rules as best I can until then.

    However, I fully support the relaxation.
    What you have missed in all your frothing is that I also support the relaxation *now that masks are being retained*. Drop everything in one go was stupid. Retain masks with the caution in people's behaviour that drives was important.

    The challenge now is the T&T app which is getting deleted faster than gammon can denounce GB News. "Don't test, no need, no risk" is bloody stupid.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Oh dear iSAGE. The inventor of Oxford vaccine says don't do children yet as other countries need the vaccine.

    That would blow a hole in the iSAGE strategy of keeping lockdown until every single person is vaccinated in UK.


    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    42m
    Sarah Gilbert on vaccines for UK children, via
    @HugoGye
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/dame-sarah-gilbert-covid-oxford-vaccine-applause-wimbledon-value-science-1104914
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    I guess I just don’t understand your position RP.
    Would you relax the rules or not? If not, which would you keep? When would you relax them?

    You seem to rail against Monday’s change but offer no alternative…
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    edited July 2021

    moonshine said:

    I have a private bet standing that the Uk will not enter a new lockdown, as defined by pubs and restaurants closing inside again. What are my chances do you think?

    I agree actually. Once all adults are double vaxxed (soon) there is simply no moral justification for it. So yes, I would be on your side of the wager.
    Al adults will not be vaxxed soon. The number will top out below 90%, I believe.

    image
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Putting France on the red list in the school holidays would make all previous travel changes look like a walk in the park IMO. However much people opine about how people would have brought it upon themselves by travelling abroad during a pandemic.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    Who is saying this? Another straw msn! The rules are relaxed here on Monday anyway. I’m keeping to the rules as best I can until then.

    However, I fully support the relaxation.
    What you have missed in all your frothing is that I also support the relaxation *now that masks are being retained*. Drop everything in one go was stupid. Retain masks with the caution in people's behaviour that drives was important.

    The challenge now is the T&T app which is getting deleted faster than gammon can denounce GB News. "Don't test, no need, no risk" is bloody stupid.
    Haven't seen any news item saying masks are being retained as mandatory....source?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,609
    Not sure whether we've done this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57840825
    "Younger adults admitted to hospital with Covid are almost as likely to suffer from complications as those over 50 years old, a study has found."

    Not a big suprise, I guess - in the absence of rationing, young people admitted to hospital should be about as sick as older people admitted to hospital. Haven't tracked down the source study, but the rate of complications per infecton (not hospitalisation) by age would be a far more informative measure.

    Also question 'almost' as high: 51% over 50 years; 44% in 40-49 years and 37% in 30-39 years, so by point estimate the incidence in 30-39 years is 28% lower than in over 50 years.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    Who is saying this? Another straw msn! The rules are relaxed here on Monday anyway. I’m keeping to the rules as best I can until then.

    However, I fully support the relaxation.
    What you have missed in all your frothing is that I also support the relaxation *now that masks are being retained*. Drop everything in one go was stupid. Retain masks with the caution in people's behaviour that drives was important.

    The challenge now is the T&T app which is getting deleted faster than gammon can denounce GB News. "Don't test, no need, no risk" is bloody stupid.
    They aren’t being retained except on public transport in London as I understand it. On Monday, none of the pubs around me will ask for masks. None.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    Oh dear iSAGE. The inventor of Oxford vaccine says don't do children yet as other countries need the vaccine.

    That would blow a hole in the iSAGE strategy of keeping lockdown until every single person is vaccinated in UK.


    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    42m
    Sarah Gilbert on vaccines for UK children, via
    @HugoGye
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/dame-sarah-gilbert-covid-oxford-vaccine-applause-wimbledon-value-science-1104914

    Why would it blow a hole in their strategy? iSage seem perfectly happy with permalockdowns, so I expect they'll say just send the vaccines abroad and lockdown until everyone else in the world has been done.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    Who is saying this? Another straw msn! The rules are relaxed here on Monday anyway. I’m keeping to the rules as best I can until then.

    However, I fully support the relaxation.
    What you have missed in all your frothing is that I also support the relaxation *now that masks are being retained*. Drop everything in one go was stupid. Retain masks with the caution in people's behaviour that drives was important.

    The challenge now is the T&T app which is getting deleted faster than gammon can denounce GB News. "Don't test, no need, no risk" is bloody stupid.
    You're right dropping everything in one go was stupid. I can't believe we went overnight from outdoor dining being banned, indoor dining being banned, nobody being allowed in your home whatsoever and masks being required to all that being dropped in one go.

    Oh wait, it wasn't. This is the final step of an arduous farcically elongated months long process.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    Genuine question.

    What do RP and his fellow travellers do when invited to a friend’s barbecue, or a wedding, or a birthday party at the pub?

    Do they decline the invitation?

    If asked to go on holiday with a few friends, would they go?

    Do they send their children to school?

    I have no idea what their real lives must be like, as unless it’s all an act they seem to be in an eternal state of extreme fearfulness.

    1. BBQ yes, done
    2. Wedding haven't been invited but yes
    3. Pub yes, done
    4. Kids in school yes, done

    What are you on about? "Extreme fearfulness" is as stupid as your previous "lockdown forever". Nobody is arguing for that.
    I’m glad to hear that. So in which case it’s fair to say you support restrictions on others but not on yourself or your friends?
    Huh? BBQ. Friend's house. In the garden. Within restrictions. Pub. Masks when not at table. With friends. Within restrictions. Schools obviously.

    So I ask again, what are you on about?
    So you agree with going to the pub and wearing a mask while walking to the loo but not when seated?
    Yes. And on the train when not eating / drinking. Any barrier is better than no barrier. And there is the difference between us - you are an absolutist, I am a pragmatist.

    Not that any of this matters. You and the other absolutists only reinforce people's hesitancy which makes the absolute freedom you want go even further off.

    Someone posted that they volunteer on a steam railway, and they can't afford to keep operating with 64 seat capacity per coach cut to 20. I sympathise, but if 20 people aren't coming this week when you have to wear a mask, 64 aren't going to come next week when you don't.
    Where do you get this idea that I’m an absolutist?
    Comments such as "Those that wish to lock themselves away forever are free to do so". Who - specifically - is proposing to do so? It is not an absolute where not saying "there is no risk" like Philip means you propose "lock themselves away forever.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    I couldn't give a hairy crack of a rat's arse if Pagel, Chris, Rochdale or anyone else is terrified. Let them take personal responsibility for themselves and cower away until the end of time if they want to do so. OCD and phobias are nothing new.

    I have an issue when people try to project their irrational phobias onto others, compelling others to wear a mask or hide away or do anything else by law.
    God, but you're lovely when you're angry.

    And brave. So brave.

    But trying to portray concern now or in the foreseeable future about getting or transmitting to others covid as "OCD and phobias" just makes you look silly.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Gnud said:

    Chris said:

    "On a personal level I know of several people I have regular dealings with who have had to self isolate because they were pinged even though they have been double jabbed."

    And why not? AstraZeneca is estimated to have only about 60% efficacy against symptomatic infection, where the Delta variant is concerned. Its efficacy against asymptomatic infection is expected to be lower. The "double jabbed" can still get the disease and pass on the disease.

    Whatever anyone thinks the best strategy is for dealing with this, please let's not mislead anyone into thinking otherwise.

    I love how when it was launched, amid much boke-inducing hype, it was boastingly called the “Oxford” vaccine (sticking out of chest compulsory). Now that the planet universally acknowledges it as a dud, it is the “AstraZeneca” vaccine, a product of a dodgy EU company, based in Sweden.

    Shades of that other phenomenon:
    - Andy Murray winning =British success
    - Andy Murray losing = Scottish failure
    Many Scots with chips on their shoulders love saying this, because it plays to the idea of "Infamy, infamy, the English have all got it in for me". But "Sutton United Win the FA Cup" would be front-page British news, whereas "Sutton United Get Knocked Out in the Preliminaries" would only make the local press.

    Trust me. You're not being picked on.

    Don't tell him that. He bizarrely likes to wallow in a phoney sense of Scottish inferiority to appeal to an equally phoney sense of injustice. The inconvenient truth for the Nats is that Scots have been a driving force behind the British establishment. Their universities and schools have provided a disproportionate amount of leading politicians who are either Scottish or of Scottish decent. The Blair government was a leading example. The Scots were enthusiastic promoters of Empire, and their troops used to repress the genuinely oppressed around the world. Nats promote a false history, just like all nationalists and their close cousins, fascists.
    The 'colonised' claims some SNATs use are fascinating given that there were no end to the Scottish settlers / soldiers / traders / explorers during the British Empire days.

    And before that there was Scotland's own attempts at colonies most notably the Darien debacle.

    And before that there were the Scottish invasions of Ireland and plantations in Ulster (and the Hebrides).
    Don’t forget the original Scottish invasion of Pictland
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    Selebian said:

    Not sure whether we've done this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57840825
    "Younger adults admitted to hospital with Covid are almost as likely to suffer from complications as those over 50 years old, a study has found."

    Not a big suprise, I guess - in the absence of rationing, young people admitted to hospital should be about as sick as older people admitted to hospital. Haven't tracked down the source study, but the rate of complications per infecton (not hospitalisation) by age would be a far more informative measure.

    Also question 'almost' as high: 51% over 50 years; 44% in 40-49 years and 37% in 30-39 years, so by point estimate the incidence in 30-39 years is 28% lower than in over 50 years.

    The study ended in August 2020, so entirely pre vaccinations, and medicines and treatments will have improved since then for the non vaccinated as well.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Genuine question.

    What do RP and his fellow travellers do when invited to a friend’s barbecue, or a wedding, or a birthday party at the pub?

    Do they decline the invitation?

    If asked to go on holiday with a few friends, would they go?

    Do they send their children to school?

    I have no idea what their real lives must be like, as unless it’s all an act they seem to be in an eternal state of extreme fearfulness.

    1. BBQ yes, done
    2. Wedding haven't been invited but yes
    3. Pub yes, done
    4. Kids in school yes, done

    What are you on about? "Extreme fearfulness" is as stupid as your previous "lockdown forever". Nobody is arguing for that.
    I’m glad to hear that. So in which case it’s fair to say you support restrictions on others but not on yourself or your friends?
    Huh? BBQ. Friend's house. In the garden. Within restrictions. Pub. Masks when not at table. With friends. Within restrictions. Schools obviously.

    So I ask again, what are you on about?
    So you agree with going to the pub and wearing a mask while walking to the loo but not when seated?
    Yes. And on the train when not eating / drinking. Any barrier is better than no barrier. And there is the difference between us - you are an absolutist, I am a pragmatist.

    Not that any of this matters. You and the other absolutists only reinforce people's hesitancy which makes the absolute freedom you want go even further off.

    Someone posted that they volunteer on a steam railway, and they can't afford to keep operating with 64 seat capacity per coach cut to 20. I sympathise, but if 20 people aren't coming this week when you have to wear a mask, 64 aren't going to come next week when you don't.
    Where do you get this idea that I’m an absolutist?
    Comments such as "Those that wish to lock themselves away forever are free to do so". Who - specifically - is proposing to do so? It is not an absolute where not saying "there is no risk" like Philip means you propose "lock themselves away forever.
    There is risk, you just need to live with it.

    If you want to hide away, or wear a mask, or anything else then that's your choice. It just isn't other people's requirement anymore.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    I guess I just don’t understand your position RP.
    Would you relax the rules or not? If not, which would you keep? When would you relax them?

    You seem to rail against Monday’s change but offer no alternative…

    Do you actually read what I post? Most of what I am posting is against the "no risk" absolutists. They and their friends in government HAD planned an absolute unlock with no further restrictions at all. I was against that.

    Having been hit by the duo of pox cases skyrocketing and public opinion being against them, these people have been sidelined by the government who is now using totally different language and saying that people should be careful and should wear masks and not forget all about it. Much better.

    The risk is the damage that has been done by the weeks of FREEDOM DAY bullshit. We're back to swamping at least parts of the NHS and we're barely getting started, despite the endless "peak Covid" claims of the pray it away posters.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    I don't know if it's been covered here, but the scenes from the flooding in Germany and Belgium appear almost apocalyptic.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    Who is saying this? Another straw msn! The rules are relaxed here on Monday anyway. I’m keeping to the rules as best I can until then.

    However, I fully support the relaxation.
    What you have missed in all your frothing is that I also support the relaxation *now that masks are being retained*. Drop everything in one go was stupid. Retain masks with the caution in people's behaviour that drives was important.

    The challenge now is the T&T app which is getting deleted faster than gammon can denounce GB News. "Don't test, no need, no risk" is bloody stupid.
    You're right dropping everything in one go was stupid. I can't believe we went overnight from outdoor dining being banned, indoor dining being banned, nobody being allowed in your home whatsoever and masks being required to all that being dropped in one go.

    Oh wait, it wasn't. This is the final step of an arduous farcically elongated months long process.
    But it's a step that was delayed a month due to figures being so bad in June (10,000 infections a day) to justify restrictions being removed. Yet, we are now in July, infection rates are way higher (40,000 infections a day) and yet we are going to remove the restrictions.

    Now I fully understand the need to remove some restrictions but if you read the sentence above it's hard to see why it's OK to do things on July 19th but not on June 21st.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    I don't know if it's been covered here, but the scenes from the flooding in Germany and Belgium appear almost apocalyptic.

    Serves the germans right for burning all that coal instead of using nice clean nuclear. Sympathy with the belgians
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    Pagan2 said:

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    Who is saying this? Another straw msn! The rules are relaxed here on Monday anyway. I’m keeping to the rules as best I can until then.

    However, I fully support the relaxation.
    What you have missed in all your frothing is that I also support the relaxation *now that masks are being retained*. Drop everything in one go was stupid. Retain masks with the caution in people's behaviour that drives was important.

    The challenge now is the T&T app which is getting deleted faster than gammon can denounce GB News. "Don't test, no need, no risk" is bloody stupid.
    Haven't seen any news item saying masks are being retained as mandatory....source?
    Did I say mandatory? And since when have they been mandatory - I can walk into a shop now, not wear a mask and not have to justify myself. The shop of course is entitled to ask me to leave!

    The major difference is that masks are still required and expected. A major shift from the week before where we were being told to throw them in the bin. I wish we could - I despise wearing one with a passion.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    No - its a stupid thing to have no gradation between only leaving your house once a day for exercise in lockdown and having a limit (that no one is checking or observing) on house guests, who are allowed to stay overnight etc and calling it lockdown.
    Yes - there are still legal restrictions on our lives that would have horrified all of us in 2019, but these are extraordinary times. No - we are not in lockdown still.

    I am using lockdown as a generic term to denote those restrictions on liberty.

    We are still in lockdown.
    I think lockdown should not be used in that way - you do see the difference don't you? You can go to the pub or restaurant, go to work, see a movie, see a play, go to watch sport. The list goes on. This is not consistent with lockdown (see March 2020 for details).
    Exactly. Lockdown was "you must stay at home". Being able to go on holiday or to the beach with your friends or on a pissed up flare in anus rampage is not "lockdown".
    Bet that bloke with a rocket up his arse won't be wearing a mask in Tesco.
    My chrome new page news feed keeps showing me pics of Danielle westbrook then and now. You couldn't imagine a clearer incentive to keep away from the cocaine.
    The widespread use of coke seems to be something the media don't go near....acting with total shock and outrage when a pob lookalike politician is found to have tried a line or two.

    Its has now transitioned from the party drug of the rich and famous to the widespread use among the plebs. It wasn't just flare yobbo off his tits on it on Sunday, you could see the telltale signs of it in lots of the snapshot videos.
    Which is a shame, given that it typically makes horrible people more horrible where mdma makes them nicer (and ketamine takes them out of the picture altogether).
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    Who is saying this? Another straw msn! The rules are relaxed here on Monday anyway. I’m keeping to the rules as best I can until then.

    However, I fully support the relaxation.
    What you have missed in all your frothing is that I also support the relaxation *now that masks are being retained*. Drop everything in one go was stupid. Retain masks with the caution in people's behaviour that drives was important.

    The challenge now is the T&T app which is getting deleted faster than gammon can denounce GB News. "Don't test, no need, no risk" is bloody stupid.
    They aren’t being retained except on public transport in London as I understand it. On Monday, none of the pubs around me will ask for masks. None.
    Most shops will. Public transport. Expect a whole load of other indoor places. As now you don't have to wear one. Most will.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    Pagan2 said:

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    Who is saying this? Another straw msn! The rules are relaxed here on Monday anyway. I’m keeping to the rules as best I can until then.

    However, I fully support the relaxation.
    What you have missed in all your frothing is that I also support the relaxation *now that masks are being retained*. Drop everything in one go was stupid. Retain masks with the caution in people's behaviour that drives was important.

    The challenge now is the T&T app which is getting deleted faster than gammon can denounce GB News. "Don't test, no need, no risk" is bloody stupid.
    Haven't seen any news item saying masks are being retained as mandatory....source?
    Did I say mandatory? And since when have they been mandatory - I can walk into a shop now, not wear a mask and not have to justify myself. The shop of course is entitled to ask me to leave!

    The major difference is that masks are still required and expected. A major shift from the week before where we were being told to throw them in the bin. I wish we could - I despise wearing one with a passion.
    You posted "*now that masks are being retained*" currently masks are mandatory if you aren't exempt....how else to read your comment except for its being retained when it definitely isn't
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    Goldman Sachs to require workers to wear masks as they return to the office

    https://twitter.com/telebusiness/status/1415982586447421442?s=20
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    No - its a stupid thing to have no gradation between only leaving your house once a day for exercise in lockdown and having a limit (that no one is checking or observing) on house guests, who are allowed to stay overnight etc and calling it lockdown.
    Yes - there are still legal restrictions on our lives that would have horrified all of us in 2019, but these are extraordinary times. No - we are not in lockdown still.

    I am using lockdown as a generic term to denote those restrictions on liberty.

    We are still in lockdown.
    I think lockdown should not be used in that way - you do see the difference don't you? You can go to the pub or restaurant, go to work, see a movie, see a play, go to watch sport. The list goes on. This is not consistent with lockdown (see March 2020 for details).
    Exactly. Lockdown was "you must stay at home". Being able to go on holiday or to the beach with your friends or on a pissed up flare in anus rampage is not "lockdown".
    Bet that bloke with a rocket up his arse won't be wearing a mask in Tesco.
    My chrome new page news feed keeps showing me pics of Danielle westbrook then and now. You couldn't imagine a clearer incentive to keep away from the cocaine.
    The widespread use of coke seems to be something the media don't go near....acting with total shock and outrage when a pob lookalike politician is found to have tried a line or two.

    Its has now transitioned from the party drug of the rich and famous to the widespread use among the plebs. It wasn't just flare yobbo off his tits on it on Sunday, you could see the telltale signs of it in lots of the snapshot videos.
    Which is a shame, given that it typically makes horrible people more horrible where mdma makes them nicer (and ketamine takes them out of the picture altogether).
    The reason the media don't go near it, is because most of them are into coke.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    IshmaelZ said:

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    I couldn't give a hairy crack of a rat's arse if Pagel, Chris, Rochdale or anyone else is terrified. Let them take personal responsibility for themselves and cower away until the end of time if they want to do so. OCD and phobias are nothing new.

    I have an issue when people try to project their irrational phobias onto others, compelling others to wear a mask or hide away or do anything else by law.
    God, but you're lovely when you're angry.

    And brave. So brave.

    But trying to portray concern now or in the foreseeable future about getting or transmitting to others covid as "OCD and phobias" just makes you look silly.
    We're post vaccines. It is OCD and phobia now.

    Or antivaxx nonsense.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    edited July 2021
    eek said:

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    Who is saying this? Another straw msn! The rules are relaxed here on Monday anyway. I’m keeping to the rules as best I can until then.

    However, I fully support the relaxation.
    What you have missed in all your frothing is that I also support the relaxation *now that masks are being retained*. Drop everything in one go was stupid. Retain masks with the caution in people's behaviour that drives was important.

    The challenge now is the T&T app which is getting deleted faster than gammon can denounce GB News. "Don't test, no need, no risk" is bloody stupid.
    You're right dropping everything in one go was stupid. I can't believe we went overnight from outdoor dining being banned, indoor dining being banned, nobody being allowed in your home whatsoever and masks being required to all that being dropped in one go.

    Oh wait, it wasn't. This is the final step of an arduous farcically elongated months long process.
    But it's a step that was delayed a month due to figures being so bad in June (10,000 infections a day) to justify restrictions being removed. Yet, we are now in July, infection rates are way higher (40,000 infections a day) and yet we are going to remove the restrictions.

    Now I fully understand the need to remove some restrictions but if you read the sentence above it's hard to see why it's OK to do things on July 19th but not on June 21st.
    The reasons given for the delay were

    - time to do extra vaccinations
    - more time to quantify the scale of the disconnection between cases and hospitalisation/death for Delta.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    Who is saying this? Another straw msn! The rules are relaxed here on Monday anyway. I’m keeping to the rules as best I can until then.

    However, I fully support the relaxation.
    What you have missed in all your frothing is that I also support the relaxation *now that masks are being retained*. Drop everything in one go was stupid. Retain masks with the caution in people's behaviour that drives was important.

    The challenge now is the T&T app which is getting deleted faster than gammon can denounce GB News. "Don't test, no need, no risk" is bloody stupid.
    They aren’t being retained except on public transport in London as I understand it. On Monday, none of the pubs around me will ask for masks. None.
    Most shops will. Public transport. Expect a whole load of other indoor places. As now you don't have to wear one. Most will.
    Most shops will be told no. Most will just mutter exempt as the easy option. I fully expect mask usage to plummet everywhere Monday
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    alex_ said:

    Putting France on the red list in the school holidays would make all previous travel changes look like a walk in the park IMO. However much people opine about how people would have brought it upon themselves by travelling abroad during a pandemic.

    We're already on their amber list. Which means essential travel only unless you are fully vaccinated. What we choose to count as Green or Amber countries and our restrictions on those are only half the issue - you have to be allowed into the other country first.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited July 2021
    Guardian.....UK unlocking threat to the world.....checks article, on its Non-Independent SAGE tw@ttering again.

    Clearly there 1000 person letter signed by the likes of Brenda who cleans the bogs didn't have a big enough effect.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    eek said:

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    Who is saying this? Another straw msn! The rules are relaxed here on Monday anyway. I’m keeping to the rules as best I can until then.

    However, I fully support the relaxation.
    What you have missed in all your frothing is that I also support the relaxation *now that masks are being retained*. Drop everything in one go was stupid. Retain masks with the caution in people's behaviour that drives was important.

    The challenge now is the T&T app which is getting deleted faster than gammon can denounce GB News. "Don't test, no need, no risk" is bloody stupid.
    You're right dropping everything in one go was stupid. I can't believe we went overnight from outdoor dining being banned, indoor dining being banned, nobody being allowed in your home whatsoever and masks being required to all that being dropped in one go.

    Oh wait, it wasn't. This is the final step of an arduous farcically elongated months long process.
    But it's a step that was delayed a month due to figures being so bad in June (10,000 infections a day) to justify restrictions being removed. Yet, we are now in July, infection rates are way higher (40,000 infections a day) and yet we are going to remove the restrictions.

    Now I fully understand the need to remove some restrictions but if you read the sentence above it's hard to see why it's OK to do things on July 19th but not on June 21st.
    That sounds to me like delaying raising the restrictions had little impact on case numbers. I understood the justification for delay was to ensure greater full vaccination coverage amongst vulnerable groups (excepting those who persisted in refusing it) so the ongoing growth in case numbers would not be considered an exceptional issue in overall public health terms. Ie. The remaining unvaccinated mainly being those who were at relatively low risk or those who had refused it.unfortunately for the immunosuppressive they ultimately have to take their own precautions because there is no good time to lift restrictions if they are the primary concern.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    Yes. "Farmer blasts EU red tape stopping workers coming to UK" is exquisite.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    No - its a stupid thing to have no gradation between only leaving your house once a day for exercise in lockdown and having a limit (that no one is checking or observing) on house guests, who are allowed to stay overnight etc and calling it lockdown.
    Yes - there are still legal restrictions on our lives that would have horrified all of us in 2019, but these are extraordinary times. No - we are not in lockdown still.

    I am using lockdown as a generic term to denote those restrictions on liberty.

    We are still in lockdown.
    I think lockdown should not be used in that way - you do see the difference don't you? You can go to the pub or restaurant, go to work, see a movie, see a play, go to watch sport. The list goes on. This is not consistent with lockdown (see March 2020 for details).
    Exactly. Lockdown was "you must stay at home". Being able to go on holiday or to the beach with your friends or on a pissed up flare in anus rampage is not "lockdown".
    Bet that bloke with a rocket up his arse won't be wearing a mask in Tesco.
    My chrome new page news feed keeps showing me pics of Danielle westbrook then and now. You couldn't imagine a clearer incentive to keep away from the cocaine.
    The widespread use of coke seems to be something the media don't go near....acting with total shock and outrage when a pob lookalike politician is found to have tried a line or two.

    Its has now transitioned from the party drug of the rich and famous to the widespread use among the plebs. It wasn't just flare yobbo off his tits on it on Sunday, you could see the telltale signs of it in lots of the snapshot videos.
    Which is a shame, given that it typically makes horrible people more horrible where mdma makes them nicer (and ketamine takes them out of the picture altogether).
    Its one of those correlation or causation issues. Are crackheads attracted to coke because they're dickheads, or do people become dickheads because they're on coke?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798

    moonshine said:

    I have a private bet standing that the Uk will not enter a new lockdown, as defined by pubs and restaurants closing inside again. What are my chances do you think?

    I agree actually. Once all adults are double vaxxed (soon) there is simply no moral justification for it. So yes, I would be on your side of the wager.
    Al adults will not be vaxxed soon. The number will top out below 90%, I believe.

    image
    Tsk, Scotland under performing again.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited July 2021

    moonshine said:

    I have a private bet standing that the Uk will not enter a new lockdown, as defined by pubs and restaurants closing inside again. What are my chances do you think?

    I agree actually. Once all adults are double vaxxed (soon) there is simply no moral justification for it. So yes, I would be on your side of the wager.
    Al adults will not be vaxxed soon. The number will top out below 90%, I believe.

    image
    Tsk, Scotland under performing again.
    Now that's interesting - obviously some of that Drakeford juice has been acquired.

    Odd, seeing as to how we wer ebeing lectured only the other day ... lagging ... inefficient.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798

    I don't know if it's been covered here, but the scenes from the flooding in Germany and Belgium appear almost apocalyptic.

    The 'hundreds still missing' is sort of the worst bit.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460

    moonshine said:

    I have a private bet standing that the Uk will not enter a new lockdown, as defined by pubs and restaurants closing inside again. What are my chances do you think?

    I agree actually. Once all adults are double vaxxed (soon) there is simply no moral justification for it. So yes, I would be on your side of the wager.
    Al adults will not be vaxxed soon. The number will top out below 90%, I believe.

    image
    NI appear to have an issue.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Am I the only one not bothered by masks? I don't even notice. Walked home 30 minutes from the station last night and didn't realise I still had it on.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    No - its a stupid thing to have no gradation between only leaving your house once a day for exercise in lockdown and having a limit (that no one is checking or observing) on house guests, who are allowed to stay overnight etc and calling it lockdown.
    Yes - there are still legal restrictions on our lives that would have horrified all of us in 2019, but these are extraordinary times. No - we are not in lockdown still.

    I am using lockdown as a generic term to denote those restrictions on liberty.

    We are still in lockdown.
    I think lockdown should not be used in that way - you do see the difference don't you? You can go to the pub or restaurant, go to work, see a movie, see a play, go to watch sport. The list goes on. This is not consistent with lockdown (see March 2020 for details).
    Exactly. Lockdown was "you must stay at home". Being able to go on holiday or to the beach with your friends or on a pissed up flare in anus rampage is not "lockdown".
    Bet that bloke with a rocket up his arse won't be wearing a mask in Tesco.
    My chrome new page news feed keeps showing me pics of Danielle westbrook then and now. You couldn't imagine a clearer incentive to keep away from the cocaine.
    The widespread use of coke seems to be something the media don't go near....acting with total shock and outrage when a pob lookalike politician is found to have tried a line or two.

    Its has now transitioned from the party drug of the rich and famous to the widespread use among the plebs. It wasn't just flare yobbo off his tits on it on Sunday, you could see the telltale signs of it in lots of the snapshot videos.
    Which is a shame, given that it typically makes horrible people more horrible where mdma makes them nicer (and ketamine takes them out of the picture altogether).
    Its one of those correlation or causation issues. Are crackheads attracted to coke because they're dickheads, or do people become dickheads because they're on coke?
    Never known anyone no matter how nice not become a dickhead while coked, think the jury is firmly back on that one.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    moonshine said:

    I have a private bet standing that the Uk will not enter a new lockdown, as defined by pubs and restaurants closing inside again. What are my chances do you think?

    I agree actually. Once all adults are double vaxxed (soon) there is simply no moral justification for it. So yes, I would be on your side of the wager.
    Al adults will not be vaxxed soon. The number will top out below 90%, I believe.

    image
    Tsk, Scotland under performing again.
    Scotland, like Wales, has less of the groups who are more anti-vax. If you look at localised vaccination rates, they are actually quite uniform when you are comparing similar groups.

    The flip side of diversity.....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    I suspect for all his bluster on here, Rochdale will have broken the rules. I suspect 99% of the public have at some stage, unwittingly in many cases.

    Almost certainly! The difference between me and thee is i'm not going round saying "fuck the rules" and then accusing the people largely following them of being terrified forever.
    Who is saying this? Another straw msn! The rules are relaxed here on Monday anyway. I’m keeping to the rules as best I can until then.

    However, I fully support the relaxation.
    What you have missed in all your frothing is that I also support the relaxation *now that masks are being retained*. Drop everything in one go was stupid. Retain masks with the caution in people's behaviour that drives was important.

    The challenge now is the T&T app which is getting deleted faster than gammon can denounce GB News. "Don't test, no need, no risk" is bloody stupid.
    You're right dropping everything in one go was stupid. I can't believe we went overnight from outdoor dining being banned, indoor dining being banned, nobody being allowed in your home whatsoever and masks being required to all that being dropped in one go.

    Oh wait, it wasn't. This is the final step of an arduous farcically elongated months long process.
    But it's a step that was delayed a month due to figures being so bad in June (10,000 infections a day) to justify restrictions being removed. Yet, we are now in July, infection rates are way higher (40,000 infections a day) and yet we are going to remove the restrictions.

    Now I fully understand the need to remove some restrictions but if you read the sentence above it's hard to see why it's OK to do things on July 19th but not on June 21st.
    It should have gone ahead on 21/6 but there's been another four weeks of vaccinations now.

    If there are to be no legal restrictions then base caseload doesn't matter, only vaccination levels matter. A higher caseload in a more vaccinated population is less of a problem with zero restrictions than a lower caseload in a less vaccinated population.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,609
    edited July 2021
    The headline on the Express website has now been updated, to the equally nutty:
    "Farmer blasts EU red tape stopping workers coming to UK - fears shops will use Europe goods"
    (there's nothing in the article to suggest the farmer actually blames EU red tape for this)

    The article does state "five miles away there is a field of wasted courgettes", which is an interesting mental image - courgettes singing, getting into fights, vomiting over the carrots :smile:
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Stupidity from the Express, but the whole issue is a nonsense. Either the farms can pay more, in which case that is higher wages for people, or they can't, in which case it is low productivity work dragging down our GDP per worker numbers and we don't need it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    moonshine said:

    I have a private bet standing that the Uk will not enter a new lockdown, as defined by pubs and restaurants closing inside again. What are my chances do you think?

    I agree actually. Once all adults are double vaxxed (soon) there is simply no moral justification for it. So yes, I would be on your side of the wager.
    Al adults will not be vaxxed soon. The number will top out below 90%, I believe.

    image
    NI appear to have an issue.
    Anti-gevrenment being fashionable in one community, plus gibbering religious loons. What could possibly go wrong?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    Selebian said:

    The headline on the Express website has now been updated, to the equally nutty:
    "Farmer blasts EU red tape stopping workers coming to UK - fears shops will use Europe goods"
    (there's nothing in the article to suggest the farmer actually blames EU red tape for this)

    The article does state "five miles away there is a field of wasted courgettes", which is an interesting mental image - courgettes singing, getting into fights, vomiting over the carrots :smile:
    A courgette standing naked waving its seeds as its friends look on. A courgette with a smoke flair up its arse etc
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    I don't know if it's been covered here, but the scenes from the flooding in Germany and Belgium appear almost apocalyptic.

    The 'hundreds still missing' is sort of the worst bit.
    And yet we still have idiots denying climate change.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    Pagan2 said:

    I don't know if it's been covered here, but the scenes from the flooding in Germany and Belgium appear almost apocalyptic.

    Serves the germans right for burning all that coal instead of using nice clean nuclear. Sympathy with the belgians
    'Die Fritz, serves you right' was the cry...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    dixiedean said:

    Am I the only one not bothered by masks? I don't even notice. Walked home 30 minutes from the station last night and didn't realise I still had it on.

    No, me too.

    I instinctively tend to feel that people objecting to masks are being whiny brats. That's an immediate gut reaction rather than a thought out one and is grossly unfair to some people.

    But as I have said before, I've never heard of this supposed mask psychosis sort of thing before covid (for instance, in the work context).

    I wonder what happened in 1917-19?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Aslan said:

    Stupidity from the Express, but the whole issue is a nonsense. Either the farms can pay more, in which case that is higher wages for people, or they can't, in which case it is low productivity work dragging down our GDP per worker numbers and we don't need it.
    Or they could invest in more mechanisation. Up til now, people have been cheaper than machines for a lot of low end tasks.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    Pagan2 said:

    I don't know if it's been covered here, but the scenes from the flooding in Germany and Belgium appear almost apocalyptic.

    Serves the germans right for burning all that coal instead of using nice clean nuclear. Sympathy with the belgians
    You are relentlessly unpleasant, aren't you? Many Germans have died.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Aslan said:

    I don't know if it's been covered here, but the scenes from the flooding in Germany and Belgium appear almost apocalyptic.

    The 'hundreds still missing' is sort of the worst bit.
    And yet we still have idiots denying climate change.
    And yet we still have the German Greens (let alone the German CDU/CSU) wanting to do less on climate change than the UK Tory government has done.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    edited July 2021
    Aslan said:

    Stupidity from the Express, but the whole issue is a nonsense. Either the farms can pay more, in which case that is higher wages for people, or they can't, in which case it is low productivity work dragging down our GDP per worker numbers and we don't need it.
    In either case, the answer is higher food prices. Another EU plot.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Stocky said:

    I'm missing @BluestBlue 's posts. Anyone know if he is OK?

    Sadly, we've lost a few blues over time... CornishBlue, Royal Blue, BluestBlue.. etc.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    Pagan2 said:

    I don't know if it's been covered here, but the scenes from the flooding in Germany and Belgium appear almost apocalyptic.

    Serves the germans right for burning all that coal instead of using nice clean nuclear. Sympathy with the belgians
    'Die Fritz, serves you right' was the cry...
    Well turning off nuclear because fukushima and switching to dirty coal .was a stupid move lets face it. However in my defence when I made the comment I wasn't aware there are hundreds missing. I assumed it was more like the boscastle flooding type incident
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    Aslan said:

    Stupidity from the Express, but the whole issue is a nonsense. Either the farms can pay more, in which case that is higher wages for people, or they can't, in which case it is low productivity work dragging down our GDP per worker numbers and we don't need it.
    Wages are part of the issue. Picking veg isn't the lowest paid job out there, but as it is seasonal you can't be a full time permanent fruit-picker.

    The big issue is the work itself. Repetitive. Back-breaking. Cold & wet or hot & parched depending on the weather. People don't want to do it. When there was that big push to get patriotic Brits picking last year there were nowhere near enough applicants and most didn't last very long before quitting.

    Your solution is full on Brexiteer inspiration stuff. Lets abandon farming and make ourselves entirely dependent on imports. Perhaps we would look to join a local free market to make the importation of such things as easy and cheap as possible?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Oh dear iSAGE. The inventor of Oxford vaccine says don't do children yet as other countries need the vaccine.

    That would blow a hole in the iSAGE strategy of keeping lockdown until every single person is vaccinated in UK.


    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    42m
    Sarah Gilbert on vaccines for UK children, via
    @HugoGye
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/dame-sarah-gilbert-covid-oxford-vaccine-applause-wimbledon-value-science-1104914

    Why would it blow a hole in their strategy? iSage seem perfectly happy with permalockdowns, so I expect they'll say just send the vaccines abroad and lockdown until everyone else in the world has been done.
    The first job of government is to protect the lives of its own citizens. There is absolutely no reason we should allow higher deaths from British children to help out mismanaged countries elsewhere in the world.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    moonshine said:

    I have a private bet standing that the Uk will not enter a new lockdown, as defined by pubs and restaurants closing inside again. What are my chances do you think?

    I agree actually. Once all adults are double vaxxed (soon) there is simply no moral justification for it. So yes, I would be on your side of the wager.
    Al adults will not be vaxxed soon. The number will top out below 90%, I believe.

    image
    Tsk, Scotland under performing again.
    Scotland, like Wales, has less of the groups who are more anti-vax. If you look at localised vaccination rates, they are actually quite uniform when you are comparing similar groups.

    The flip side of diversity.....
    On the other hand, plenty of the 'groups' from NI (whoi presumably don't get counted in the 'diversity' stats)? That signal should appear in Scotland, too. But the level in NI isn't perhaps big enough to register anyway.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    Oh dear iSAGE. The inventor of Oxford vaccine says don't do children yet as other countries need the vaccine.

    That would blow a hole in the iSAGE strategy of keeping lockdown until every single person is vaccinated in UK.


    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    42m
    Sarah Gilbert on vaccines for UK children, via
    @HugoGye
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/dame-sarah-gilbert-covid-oxford-vaccine-applause-wimbledon-value-science-1104914

    Why would it blow a hole in their strategy? iSage seem perfectly happy with permalockdowns, so I expect they'll say just send the vaccines abroad and lockdown until everyone else in the world has been done.
    Well, they do occasionally mutter that they are only asking for lockdown for another few weeks so that all kids and young adults can be done.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    No - its a stupid thing to have no gradation between only leaving your house once a day for exercise in lockdown and having a limit (that no one is checking or observing) on house guests, who are allowed to stay overnight etc and calling it lockdown.
    Yes - there are still legal restrictions on our lives that would have horrified all of us in 2019, but these are extraordinary times. No - we are not in lockdown still.

    I am using lockdown as a generic term to denote those restrictions on liberty.

    We are still in lockdown.
    I think lockdown should not be used in that way - you do see the difference don't you? You can go to the pub or restaurant, go to work, see a movie, see a play, go to watch sport. The list goes on. This is not consistent with lockdown (see March 2020 for details).
    Exactly. Lockdown was "you must stay at home". Being able to go on holiday or to the beach with your friends or on a pissed up flare in anus rampage is not "lockdown".
    Bet that bloke with a rocket up his arse won't be wearing a mask in Tesco.
    My chrome new page news feed keeps showing me pics of Danielle westbrook then and now. You couldn't imagine a clearer incentive to keep away from the cocaine.
    The widespread use of coke seems to be something the media don't go near....acting with total shock and outrage when a pob lookalike politician is found to have tried a line or two.

    Its has now transitioned from the party drug of the rich and famous to the widespread use among the plebs. It wasn't just flare yobbo off his tits on it on Sunday, you could see the telltale signs of it in lots of the snapshot videos.
    Which is a shame, given that it typically makes horrible people more horrible where mdma makes them nicer (and ketamine takes them out of the picture altogether).
    The reason the media don't go near it, is because most of them are into coke.
    And to be fair to the media, there was no backlash in 2019 when the various Conservative leadership contenders owned up to the odd sniff of icing sugar. Michael Gove was eliminated on a charge of hypocrisy because of his stance on sacking coked-up teachers but that was different. Think back to the collective sigh of indifference over that photo of George Osborne.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited July 2021
    Odd that the Express headline isn't 'Brexit TRIUMPH as farmers GO BUST without CHEAP EU migrants'

    "This is exactly what we always wanted", said Nigel Farage. "We don't need these farms, we can buy all the courgettes we want from Holland and Spain".
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798

    moonshine said:

    I have a private bet standing that the Uk will not enter a new lockdown, as defined by pubs and restaurants closing inside again. What are my chances do you think?

    I agree actually. Once all adults are double vaxxed (soon) there is simply no moral justification for it. So yes, I would be on your side of the wager.
    Al adults will not be vaxxed soon. The number will top out below 90%, I believe.

    image
    Tsk, Scotland under performing again.
    Scotland, like Wales, has less of the groups who are more anti-vax. If you look at localised vaccination rates, they are actually quite uniform when you are comparing similar groups.

    The flip side of diversity.....
    Well, I'm glad we've moved on from suggesting that the raw vax figures were worst of all for Scotland. Looking forward to an actual scale whereby I can calculate how much Scotland has to over perform just to be 'as good as'.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    Pagan2 said:

    I don't know if it's been covered here, but the scenes from the flooding in Germany and Belgium appear almost apocalyptic.

    Serves the germans right for burning all that coal instead of using nice clean nuclear. Sympathy with the belgians
    You are relentlessly unpleasant, aren't you? Many Germans have died.
    Which as I noted below I wasn't aware of. Flooding often does not mean deaths and the comment I replied to was the first time I had heard there had been flooding
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    No - its a stupid thing to have no gradation between only leaving your house once a day for exercise in lockdown and having a limit (that no one is checking or observing) on house guests, who are allowed to stay overnight etc and calling it lockdown.
    Yes - there are still legal restrictions on our lives that would have horrified all of us in 2019, but these are extraordinary times. No - we are not in lockdown still.

    I am using lockdown as a generic term to denote those restrictions on liberty.

    We are still in lockdown.
    I think lockdown should not be used in that way - you do see the difference don't you? You can go to the pub or restaurant, go to work, see a movie, see a play, go to watch sport. The list goes on. This is not consistent with lockdown (see March 2020 for details).
    Exactly. Lockdown was "you must stay at home". Being able to go on holiday or to the beach with your friends or on a pissed up flare in anus rampage is not "lockdown".
    Bet that bloke with a rocket up his arse won't be wearing a mask in Tesco.
    My chrome new page news feed keeps showing me pics of Danielle westbrook then and now. You couldn't imagine a clearer incentive to keep away from the cocaine.
    The widespread use of coke seems to be something the media don't go near....acting with total shock and outrage when a pob lookalike politician is found to have tried a line or two.

    Its has now transitioned from the party drug of the rich and famous to the widespread use among the plebs. It wasn't just flare yobbo off his tits on it on Sunday, you could see the telltale signs of it in lots of the snapshot videos.
    Which is a shame, given that it typically makes horrible people more horrible where mdma makes them nicer (and ketamine takes them out of the picture altogether).
    Its one of those correlation or causation issues. Are crackheads attracted to coke because they're dickheads, or do people become dickheads because they're on coke?
    Never known anyone no matter how nice not become a dickhead while coked, think the jury is firmly back on that one.
    I have a theory, based on the Victorian term "liberated by drink" - it just lets out the inner dickhead.

    The people who don't have an inner dickhead don't want coke, generally, I think. Bit like the correlation between drinking Stella and violence..... It's alot to do with the fact that people who aren't thugs inside shy away from the association.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Aslan said:

    Stupidity from the Express, but the whole issue is a nonsense. Either the farms can pay more, in which case that is higher wages for people, or they can't, in which case it is low productivity work dragging down our GDP per worker numbers and we don't need it.
    Wages are part of the issue. Picking veg isn't the lowest paid job out there, but as it is seasonal you can't be a full time permanent fruit-picker.

    The big issue is the work itself. Repetitive. Back-breaking. Cold & wet or hot & parched depending on the weather. People don't want to do it. When there was that big push to get patriotic Brits picking last year there were nowhere near enough applicants and most didn't last very long before quitting.

    Your solution is full on Brexiteer inspiration stuff. Lets abandon farming and make ourselves entirely dependent on imports. Perhaps we would look to join a local free market to make the importation of such things as easy and cheap as possible?
    Or perhaps we should open ourselves up to global trade so we're not constrained to rely upon locals alone.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    No - its a stupid thing to have no gradation between only leaving your house once a day for exercise in lockdown and having a limit (that no one is checking or observing) on house guests, who are allowed to stay overnight etc and calling it lockdown.
    Yes - there are still legal restrictions on our lives that would have horrified all of us in 2019, but these are extraordinary times. No - we are not in lockdown still.

    I am using lockdown as a generic term to denote those restrictions on liberty.

    We are still in lockdown.
    I think lockdown should not be used in that way - you do see the difference don't you? You can go to the pub or restaurant, go to work, see a movie, see a play, go to watch sport. The list goes on. This is not consistent with lockdown (see March 2020 for details).
    Exactly. Lockdown was "you must stay at home". Being able to go on holiday or to the beach with your friends or on a pissed up flare in anus rampage is not "lockdown".
    Bet that bloke with a rocket up his arse won't be wearing a mask in Tesco.
    My chrome new page news feed keeps showing me pics of Danielle westbrook then and now. You couldn't imagine a clearer incentive to keep away from the cocaine.
    The widespread use of coke seems to be something the media don't go near....acting with total shock and outrage when a pob lookalike politician is found to have tried a line or two.

    Its has now transitioned from the party drug of the rich and famous to the widespread use among the plebs. It wasn't just flare yobbo off his tits on it on Sunday, you could see the telltale signs of it in lots of the snapshot videos.
    Which is a shame, given that it typically makes horrible people more horrible where mdma makes them nicer (and ketamine takes them out of the picture altogether).
    The reason the media don't go near it, is because most of them are into coke.
    And to be fair to the media, there was no backlash in 2019 when the various Conservative leadership contenders owned up to the odd sniff of icing sugar. Michael Gove was eliminated on a charge of hypocrisy because of his stance on sacking coked-up teachers but that was different. Think back to the collective sigh of indifference over that photo of George Osborne.
    ...because they knew that if they really went after someone on the issue, sooner or later a Conservative MP would say - "Well, I was there when you snorted x lines of coke - are you resigning?" to an interviewer.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    No - its a stupid thing to have no gradation between only leaving your house once a day for exercise in lockdown and having a limit (that no one is checking or observing) on house guests, who are allowed to stay overnight etc and calling it lockdown.
    Yes - there are still legal restrictions on our lives that would have horrified all of us in 2019, but these are extraordinary times. No - we are not in lockdown still.

    I am using lockdown as a generic term to denote those restrictions on liberty.

    We are still in lockdown.
    I think lockdown should not be used in that way - you do see the difference don't you? You can go to the pub or restaurant, go to work, see a movie, see a play, go to watch sport. The list goes on. This is not consistent with lockdown (see March 2020 for details).
    Exactly. Lockdown was "you must stay at home". Being able to go on holiday or to the beach with your friends or on a pissed up flare in anus rampage is not "lockdown".
    Bet that bloke with a rocket up his arse won't be wearing a mask in Tesco.
    My chrome new page news feed keeps showing me pics of Danielle westbrook then and now. You couldn't imagine a clearer incentive to keep away from the cocaine.
    The widespread use of coke seems to be something the media don't go near....acting with total shock and outrage when a pob lookalike politician is found to have tried a line or two.

    Its has now transitioned from the party drug of the rich and famous to the widespread use among the plebs. It wasn't just flare yobbo off his tits on it on Sunday, you could see the telltale signs of it in lots of the snapshot videos.
    Which is a shame, given that it typically makes horrible people more horrible where mdma makes them nicer (and ketamine takes them out of the picture altogether).
    Its one of those correlation or causation issues. Are crackheads attracted to coke because they're dickheads, or do people become dickheads because they're on coke?
    Never known anyone no matter how nice not become a dickhead while coked, think the jury is firmly back on that one.
    I have a theory, based on the Victorian term "liberated by drink" - it just lets out the inner dickhead.

    The people who don't have an inner dickhead don't want coke, generally, I think. Bit like the correlation between drinking Stella and violence..... It's alot to do with the fact that people who aren't thugs inside shy away from the association.

    Not sure that is necessarily true however, anecdotal but heard lots of people say similar things about various drinks. I for example like whisky.....I don't drink it though as it makes me agressive. Other spirits I am fine on for similar amounts and rum makes me I am told positively laid back and mellow.
This discussion has been closed.