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Not much politics on today’s front pages – politicalbetting.com

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  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,787

    Rishi says they are ‘literally’ throwing the kitchen sink at helping people get back into work. Don’t think that’s going to help tbh.

    The diminutive twat has probably focused group exactly what flavour of illiterate drivel plays well in Hartlepool.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    tlg86 said:

    Starmer on ITV. "The England team show what modern Britain is all about."

    What, utterly straight and male?

    Not very inclusive there, SKS ...

    (My one and only objection to the England team taking the knee is that it seems a slightly 'easy' cause. Given the number of footballers, it is slightly odd that there are no openly gay footballers in the male game. Well, it's not odd at all. https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/no-gay-footballers-in-the-premier-league )
    I suspect the biggest issue is that there would be a media circus around a player who came out. Beyond that, though, I suspect teammates are potentially a bigger issue that knobheads in the crowd. That article fails to mention one of the more illuminating press conferences given by a player:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/jun/12/euro-2012-antonio-cassano-gays
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    It did not do Harold Wilson much good back in 1966. England won the World Cup at the end of July, yet by the end of 1967 the Labour Government had lost 5 by elections - and suffered a landslide defeat at the GLC elections. A further 5 by elections were lost in the first half of 1968 accompanied by disastrous results at the May 1968 local elections.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    edited July 2021
    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/

    Had nothing on it, now just about the commentary. A tad sad.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    So what if it wasn't? The Dutch referee thought it was and VAR was not compelled to overturn it, which is all that matters.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Andy_JS said:

    NEW: South Korea reports 1,275 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record

    What happened to their world-beating track and trace system?
    Sadly, I think it is Delta.
    You have to imagine when the R rate increases so much you have to increase the size of your track and trace team to match, plus their will be viable transmission situations that weren't before.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,172
    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/
    Some bloke from the home counties checking out the Daily Record sports section to see if they’re producing the required amount of enthusiasm for the England football team is peak something or other.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,967
    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,319

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    is there anything you don't object to ? :smile:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040
    Gnud said:

    A good day to bury news.

    ‘Why is the government planning to scrap English Votes for English Laws?’

    Johnson’s neo-unionism reflects a British imaginary that sees devolved government and calls to provide some form of English-level recognition as sources of fragmentation, and resiles from the idea that the UK is a voluntary union of self-determining peoples. In taking this line his administration has triggered an increasingly open conflict with the pro-devolution unionist position, which was, until recently, the prevalent view in both Whitehall and Westminster.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/devolution/2021/07/why-government-planning-scrap-english-votes-english-laws

    One can, of course, advance a perfectly legitimate argument that devolution has been catastrophic for the Union, but a response that consists, essentially, of leaving it untouched where it already exists whilst failing to implement equivalence where it does not is the worst of all worlds. The only stable configurations for the UK are a federation or a unitary state, not the dog's breakfast that the idiot Blair bequeathed us.

    Of course, Boris Johnson is a lucky general. If the British state does finally founder, it'll almost certainly be on someone else's watch.
    If they wanted a unitary state they should have done it shortly after 1707. Yes, they successfully tricked the Scots nobility with English gold and juicy terms in the Treaty of Union, but they should have reneged on the lot in the first 10 years and effectively have imposed a unitary dictatorship on the whole island. By now GB would be as uniform as, say, Italy, Germany or France.

    The key error was allowing the College of Justice to continue to exist. And the Kirk.

    But far too late now.

    (I laugh when folk blame Blair. They obviously know zilch about the mood at the time. Blair was painted into a corner, and boy did he know it.)

    (As for “federation”: that’s the biggest yawn fest of Scottish politics. Gordon Brown’s neverending whine.)
    Agreed about the Scottish legal system.

    But turnout in the 1997 devolution referendum was 60%. In the British GE four months before, Scottish turnout was 71%. There wasn't much of a mood at the time.
    I went to a lecture by Lord Hope pre lockdown which explained that it had been a near run thing. James I & V1was all for English law applying in Scotland because Scots law was a bit of a mess. A decision was deferred for a few years during which Lord Stair wrote his Institutions which codified Scots law with a large wedge of Roman law being adopted. Lord Hope thought that this was a very good thing and seemed somewhat taken aback when I pointed out that every person in the room (the lecture was at the Faculty of Advocates) would be making far more money and have a vastly wider range of opportunities had it not happened.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Andy_JS said:

    NEW: South Korea reports 1,275 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record

    What happened to their world-beating track and trace system?
    Sadly, I think it is Delta.
    The Johnson Variant.

    As most of them will be from now. Johnson Alpha, Johnson Beta, Johnson Lambada.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,476

    Rishi says they are ‘literally’ throwing the kitchen sink at helping people get back into work. Don’t think that’s going to help tbh.

    Creates jobs for kitchen installers, I guess.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/
    Some bloke from the home counties checking out the Daily Record sports section to see if they’re producing the required amount of enthusiasm for the England football team is peak something or other.
    It’s not about enthusiasm it’s about what’s news.

    When Wales reached the semis it was major news. If Scotland reached the final of a major competition it would be a big story.

    Here we have to get out the airbrush for some reason.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943

    More ‘gestures’.
    Never far away from self pity with these lads.

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1413017049744433154?s=21

    The relentless whinge of the right-wing Brexit loon is the muzak of our time.

    In the spirit of Unionist unity Redwood could always sing us a verse of "Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau".
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    justin124 said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    It did not do Harold Wilson much good back in 1966. England won the World Cup at the end of July, yet by the end of 1967 the Labour Government had lost 5 by elections - and suffered a landslide defeat at the GLC elections. A further 5 by elections were lost in the first half of 1968 accompanied by disastrous results at the May 1968 local elections.
    Yet if it wasn’t for the managerial mistakes in the Germany match, would have got in again.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040
    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Rishi says they are ‘literally’ throwing the kitchen sink at helping people get back into work. Don’t think that’s going to help tbh.

    I think it hilarious that whilst literally means, well, literally, its use to mean figuratively is now so common it's essentially a secondary, yet contradcitory, meaning of the word.

    That is, literally means both literally and not literally at times.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/
    Some bloke from the home counties checking out the Daily Record sports section to see if they’re producing the required amount of enthusiasm for the England football team is peak something or other.
    It’s not about enthusiasm it’s about what’s news.

    When Wales reached the semis it was major news. If Scotland reached the final of a major competition it would be a big story.

    Here we have to get out the airbrush for some reason.
    Don't worry about it, their fragility is really their problem. Most of us are just happy to be in the final. I know I am. It's another curse that's been broken.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/
    Some bloke from the home counties checking out the Daily Record sports section to see if they’re producing the required amount of enthusiasm for the England football team is peak something or other.
    Absurd Scottish bitterness about the English football team and absurd English paranoia about Scots' failure to support England are two cheeks of this same arse. Everyone needs to get over themselves.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,950
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Starmer on ITV. "The England team show what modern Britain is all about."

    What, utterly straight and male?

    Not very inclusive there, SKS ...

    (My one and only objection to the England team taking the knee is that it seems a slightly 'easy' cause. Given the number of footballers, it is slightly odd that there are no openly gay footballers in the male game. Well, it's not odd at all. https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/no-gay-footballers-in-the-premier-league )
    I suspect the biggest issue is that there would be a media circus around a player who came out. Beyond that, though, I suspect teammates are potentially a bigger issue that knobheads in the crowd. That article fails to mention one of the more illuminating press conferences given by a player:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/jun/12/euro-2012-antonio-cassano-gays
    I appreciate this may be idealistic of me and I suspect the reasons for not coming out are to do with the reaction it would cause

    BUT in reality why should they come out? It is none of my business or anyone else as to whether someone is gay or not. We will know it doesn't matter when none of us care or are interested.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,990

    The Nevster putting the richly deserved boot in..

    https://twitter.com/alanjstedman/status/1412891404787982336?s=21

    As does ex Boro MP Tom Blenkinsop after Tiny Tory Mayor Ben Houchen International Airport ranted at Gareth Southgate as not being as good as Bobby Robson

    https://twitter.com/TomBlenkinsop/status/1412888975833026568
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,172
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/
    Some bloke from the home counties checking out the Daily Record sports section to see if they’re producing the required amount of enthusiasm for the England football team is peak something or other.
    It’s not about enthusiasm it’s about what’s news.

    When Wales reached the semis it was major news. If Scotland reached the final of a major competition it would be a big story.

    Here we have to get out the airbrush for some reason.
    I expect despite (like all papers) having a diminishing readership that the Daily Record still has a fairly acute nose as to what constitutes ‘news’ for their readership. They’re not known for being reticent when it comes touting any old shite for attention.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/
    Some bloke from the home counties checking out the Daily Record sports section to see if they’re producing the required amount of enthusiasm for the England football team is peak something or other.
    It’s not about enthusiasm it’s about what’s news.

    When Wales reached the semis it was major news. If Scotland reached the final of a major competition it would be a big story.

    Here we have to get out the airbrush for some reason.
    ...ah but will you and I be cheering for Boris as he waves and salutes the grateful and adoring fans from the open topped team bus as it meanders its victory lap of London on Monday afternoon?

    Actually, on this occasion, I think I will!
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/

    Had nothing on it, now just about the commentary. A tad sad.
    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/

    Had nothing on it, now just about the commentary. A tad sad.
    At least it's the top news from the European Championship, in Bild it's second to a story about Germany players eating Sushi after beating Portugal a couple of weeks ago!

    And it seems to be on the front page of the Scottish newspapers today (England beating Denmark, that is, not Sushigate) including the Daily Record:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-57760445

    So you can cheer up!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    This group of “scientists” have gone completely bonkers, what they’re saying isn’t close to being bourne out by the evidence and statistics, but they’re becoming rediculously shrill in their statements.

    They also don’t have to balance the real-world costs of keeping the restrictions in place, with furlough, unemployment, business failures and crashing tax revenues weighing heavily on the minds of those actually making the decisions.

    It’s clear there will be no overwhelming of the health system, therefore there’s no need for the restrictions to remain. Domestically at least, in the U.K. the pandemic is over.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,669
    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    The dose figures are wrong

    First dose is 86% and second is 64.6%

    But this is iSage
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    rkrkrk said:

    The govt should be straight with the British public. They clearly have modelling on what 100k cases/whatever the expectation is -> means in terms of hospitalizations & deaths. They should release it. The public has a right to know.

    With the state of so much of the modelling, I 'm not sure it would help, no matter what it says. Currently tracking way below the Warwick models that were used to postpone stage 4.

    I'd also pay attention to Scotland - cases appear to have peaked (although I note an increase yesterday) and that is surely associated with the Scottish team being out the Euros and the schools breaking up. This will happen here too (Euros are over on sunday) and schools break up shortly.

    Also - we have personal responsibility. Keep yourself as safe as you can. If you are worried about public transport find another way. If you cant, get an FFP3 mask that will protect you.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211
    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    Swallows and summers etc... but

    image

    The 20-24 line is *starting* to look a little interesting.....

    No guarantees. This data may contain nuts. It may contain nutters. It may contain trained Marxist nutters. All wrongs reserved.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/
    Some bloke from the home counties checking out the Daily Record sports section to see if they’re producing the required amount of enthusiasm for the England football team is peak something or other.
    It’s not about enthusiasm it’s about what’s news.

    When Wales reached the semis it was major news. If Scotland reached the final of a major competition it would be a big story.

    Here we have to get out the airbrush for some reason.
    Yes, its just wrong, or it would be if it happened which the headlines in the thread header shows that it doesn't. All of my kids considered themselves to be honorary English for the night talking about "we" should do this and the other in messages but I have another friend who was very bitter about it all, maintaining that the English were a bunch of cheats, divers etc. Curiously, politically, he is a Unionist of Italian extraction and there is no doubt who he will be supporting in the final.

    Personally I was supporting England in the same way as I do with the cricket. I want them to do well, I am delighted when they score but the passion is not what it is when Scotland play.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/
    Some bloke from the home counties checking out the Daily Record sports section to see if they’re producing the required amount of enthusiasm for the England football team is peak something or other.
    It’s not about enthusiasm it’s about what’s news.

    When Wales reached the semis it was major news. If Scotland reached the final of a major competition it would be a big story.

    Here we have to get out the airbrush for some reason.
    Don't worry about it, their fragility is really their problem. Most of us are just happy to be in the final. I know I am. It's another curse that's been broken.
    Is it a curse? Have we been statistical outliers over all those years of hurt, or just not particularly good at this?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    Swallows and summers etc... but

    image

    The 20-24 line is *starting* to look a little interesting.....

    No guarantees. This data may contain nuts. It may contain nutters. It may contain trained Marxist nutters. All wrongs reserved.
    Thanks. That confirms my suspicions. I think the number of cases will be falling by the 19th.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    edited July 2021
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    This group of “scientists” have gone completely bonkers, what they’re saying isn’t close to being bourne out by the evidence and statistics, but they’re becoming rediculously shrill in their statements.

    They also don’t have to balance the real-world costs of keeping the restrictions in place, with furlough, unemployment, business failures and crashing tax revenues weighing heavily on the minds of those actually making the decisions.

    It’s clear there will be no overwhelming of the health system, therefore there’s no need for the restrictions to remain. Domestically at least, in the U.K. the pandemic is over.
    Ha ha ha 😀

    They are not talking about overwhelming of NHS now, they are saying

    “exponential growth of COVID-19 will likely leave hundreds of thousands with long-term illness and disability".

    "This strategy risks creating a generation left with chronic health problems and disability, the personal and economic impacts of which might be felt for decades to come."

    “the strategy "provides fertile ground for the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants".

    “"The government has made a deliberate choice to expose children to mass infection, rather than protect them in schools or vaccinate them. This is unethical and unacceptable. Our young have already suffered so much in the past year, and are now being condemned to suffer the consequences of this dangerous experiment."

    Scientists are bonkers are they?

    Remember the PB maxim “the only right scientist is the one telling you what you want to hear”. 😀
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903

    Rishi says they are ‘literally’ throwing the kitchen sink at helping people get back into work. Don’t think that’s going to help tbh.

    Jeez. And his school cost how much per term?
    What's next? `pacifically' in place of 'specifically'?
    Country is literally going to the dogs.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,519
    I have the hangover from hell ffs
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137

    I have the hangover from hell ffs

    same as the rest of england then...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,990
    edited July 2021

    Rishi says they are ‘literally’ throwing the kitchen sink at helping people get back into work. Don’t think that’s going to help tbh.

    There are a few structural problems for him to address as there are a *lot* of job vacancies that cannot be filled:

    1. The jobs aren't where the unemployed live.
    2. The cost / practicality of work can be prohibitive. I remember Iain Duncan Smith telling the unemployed of the Welsh Valleys how many jobs there were in booming Cardiff. Great! Except that shift / evening work 30 miles away is no good if you have kids and no car. Or even if you are single and have a car the cost of doing the job outweighs the salary.
    3. Many of the jobs are skilled and the unemployed unskilled. We can't just - as the Wizard of Wazza insists - have 60k+ truck drivers trained in 8 weeks even if there were 100k (some will fail the test) candidates available, willing and living near the vacancies which there aren't.

    In short this is why Blair let in the eastern Europeans in the first place - we had vacancies and no-one to fill them. If you look at the map of vacancies to unemployed there isn't much correlation so even if the jobs paid enough and there was public transport and childcare and training the jobs aren't where the people are.

    I'm sure a simple solution is waiting. Something to do with belief over the evidence.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049

    Now that the 100k new cases a day figure has emerged, are we expecting any polling on how the people of England feel about that? I am discounting the strident UNLOCK NOW IT IS RISK FREE voices on here as I suspect you aren't representative.

    Ordinarily, football or not, the superspreader events in pubs across the country for the fitba would have been something people would avoid like the plague. Perhaps Monday's pre-announcement that they will make a decision next Monday as to whether to allow the following Monday what is already happening was there specifically to give people permission to bin the restrictions now.

    As the plan is let her rip, may as well get on with it.

    We're fine. Thanks for asking. We'll make our own minds up.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943

    The Nevster putting the richly deserved boot in..

    https://twitter.com/alanjstedman/status/1412891404787982336?s=21

    As does ex Boro MP Tom Blenkinsop after Tiny Tory Mayor Ben Houchen International Airport ranted at Gareth Southgate as not being as good as Bobby Robson

    https://twitter.com/TomBlenkinsop/status/1412888975833026568
    What top current "in crowd" Tories would like of course, is cultural Marxist Gareth 'take the knee' Southgate relieved of his duties on Sunday afternoon so a proper leader, say Boris Johnson, can lead the team out to Wembley victory at 8pm.

    Now that would be a fairytale...or a nightmare.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    The dose figures are wrong

    First dose is 86% and second is 64.6%

    But this is iSage
    Total population (so includes U18)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,172

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/
    Some bloke from the home counties checking out the Daily Record sports section to see if they’re producing the required amount of enthusiasm for the England football team is peak something or other.
    Absurd Scottish bitterness about the English football team and absurd English paranoia about Scots' failure to support England are two cheeks of this same arse. Everyone needs to get over themselves.
    You can always depend on Anas to find the spot between those cheeks.


  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,572
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    This group of “scientists” have gone completely bonkers, what they’re saying isn’t close to being bourne out by the evidence and statistics, but they’re becoming rediculously shrill in their statements.

    They also don’t have to balance the real-world costs of keeping the restrictions in place, with furlough, unemployment, business failures and crashing tax revenues weighing heavily on the minds of those actually making the decisions.

    It’s clear there will be no overwhelming of the health system, therefore there’s no need for the restrictions to remain. Domestically at least, in the U.K. the pandemic is over.
    You're being a bit rash there - there's an argument that we should unlock for economic reasons, but both hospitalisation and death rates are up sharply as the previous increase in cases feeds through. There's also a tricky decision to make over whether to let NHS staff who "ping" stay at work with daily tests, or wait for the relaxation in August. If they wait, then hospitals will struggle to cope (not just with Covid). If they don't wait, then they may make hospitals more dangerous.

    Vaccination is working well and the situation is much less grave than 8 months ago. But we can't blithely say the pandemic is over. Even Johnson, always sanguine, is not saying that. We need to move carefully to avoid putting us back into difficulty.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/

    Had nothing on it, now just about the commentary. A tad sad.
    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/

    Had nothing on it, now just about the commentary. A tad sad.
    At least it's the top news from the European Championship, in Bild it's second to a story about Germany players eating Sushi after beating Portugal a couple of weeks ago!

    And it seems to be on the front page of the Scottish newspapers today (England beating Denmark, that is, not Sushigate) including the Daily Record:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-57760445

    So you can cheer up!
    Trust me, I don’t need to be cheered up today. 😀
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,669

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    The dose figures are wrong

    First dose is 86% and second is 64.6%

    But this is iSage
    Total population (so includes U18)
    Thank you but misleading
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    TOPPING said:

    Now that the 100k new cases a day figure has emerged, are we expecting any polling on how the people of England feel about that? I am discounting the strident UNLOCK NOW IT IS RISK FREE voices on here as I suspect you aren't representative.

    Ordinarily, football or not, the superspreader events in pubs across the country for the fitba would have been something people would avoid like the plague. Perhaps Monday's pre-announcement that they will make a decision next Monday as to whether to allow the following Monday what is already happening was there specifically to give people permission to bin the restrictions now.

    As the plan is let her rip, may as well get on with it.

    We're fine. Thanks for asking. We'll make our own minds up.
    Quite. Attendance at nightclubs and sporting events isn’t being made compulsory.

    If you’re not vaccinated and worried about getting sick, then continue to wear a mask and avoid crowded planes.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    I have the hangover from hell ffs

    Is it correct to 'like' this or not? Sympathies, but I think I know why!
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208

    Rishi says they are ‘literally’ throwing the kitchen sink at helping people get back into work. Don’t think that’s going to help tbh.

    Jeez. And his school cost how much per term?
    What's next? `pacifically' in place of 'specifically'?
    Country is literally going to the dogs.
    Pacifically instead of specifically is a mistake.

    Using "literally" in this way is the pretty much the same as using "really" in the same way. "We are really throwing the kitchen sink at this". Does anybody complain that they aren't "really"?

    But because really has been completely absorbed as just an intensifier, literally works better as an attempt to revive a dead metaphor like "throwing the kitchen sink". Therefore it's better in this kind of example.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    For the record, I disapprove of the Chancellor's officially stated policy of throwing sinks at people. I'm surprised it's even legal, to be honest.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    In regards to the football I think Southgate is using up all the luck other England Managers did not have.
    Some of his decisions I find bizarre

    What team in this tournament would Phil Foden not start for, he is world class which he looked when he came on yet Mason Mount who has done nothing is selected in front of him. In the 2nd half of extra time Denmark were out on their feet and down to 10 men. Yet Southgate decided to take off the sub Grealish and change our whole system of playing by going to 5 at the back. Go defensive against a team who are exhausted and down to 10 men?

    And the penalty! A terrible penalty where Kane basically passed to the goalie, yet somehow the ball managed to rebound off Schmeichel straight back to Kane.

    Its as if God has decided that England have had enough bad luck (remember the Sol Campbell goal against Argentina which was disallowed) and has blessed Southgate with all the good luck in the world.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited July 2021
    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/
    Some bloke from the home counties checking out the Daily Record sports section to see if they’re producing the required amount of enthusiasm for the England football team is peak something or other.
    It’s not about enthusiasm it’s about what’s news.

    When Wales reached the semis it was major news. If Scotland reached the final of a major competition it would be a big story.

    Here we have to get out the airbrush for some reason.
    Yes, its just wrong, or it would be if it happened which the headlines in the thread header shows that it doesn't. All of my kids considered themselves to be honorary English for the night talking about "we" should do this and the other in messages but I have another friend who was very bitter about it all, maintaining that the English were a bunch of cheats, divers etc. Curiously, politically, he is a Unionist of Italian extraction and there is no doubt who he will be supporting in the final.

    Personally I was supporting England in the same way as I do with the cricket. I want them to do well, I am delighted when they score but the passion is not what it is when Scotland play.
    But many people - particularly non-football fans like myself - see the whole thing as trivial and inconsequential. The effect of the OTT hype is to alienate us followed by a great sense of relief when England lose. To be fair - until this morning's headlines - it has been more bearable during this tournament with far fewer flags seen flying on cars etc.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    The dose figures are wrong

    First dose is 86% and second is 64.6%

    But this is iSage
    They are using total population, the PHE dashboard (where you probably got the 86 and 64.6) is using over-18 population.

    Both numbers have their uses - the over-18s number is relevant because it shows how close we are to completing the (current) plan. The whole population numbers relate to the population immunity question (aka herd immunity)...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,951

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    The dose figures are wrong

    First dose is 86% and second is 64.6%

    But this is iSage
    Total population (so includes U18)
    Thank you but misleading
    It's not misleading. The percentage dosed of the whole population is more important from an epidemiological point of view, while the percentage dose of the adult population is more important for judging how well the vaccine rollout is going. They are different answers to different questions and it's not accurate to say it is misleading to look at one rather than the other, unless one figure is misrepresented as being the other, which is not the case here.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    This group of “scientists” have gone completely bonkers, what they’re saying isn’t close to being bourne out by the evidence and statistics, but they’re becoming rediculously shrill in their statements.

    They also don’t have to balance the real-world costs of keeping the restrictions in place, with furlough, unemployment, business failures and crashing tax revenues weighing heavily on the minds of those actually making the decisions.

    It’s clear there will be no overwhelming of the health system, therefore there’s no need for the restrictions to remain. Domestically at least, in the U.K. the pandemic is over.
    You're being a bit rash there - there's an argument that we should unlock for economic reasons, but both hospitalisation and death rates are up sharply as the previous increase in cases feeds through. There's also a tricky decision to make over whether to let NHS staff who "ping" stay at work with daily tests, or wait for the relaxation in August. If they wait, then hospitals will struggle to cope (not just with Covid). If they don't wait, then they may make hospitals more dangerous.

    Vaccination is working well and the situation is much less grave than 8 months ago. But we can't blithely say the pandemic is over. Even Johnson, always sanguine, is not saying that. We need to move carefully to avoid putting us back into difficulty.
    Hospitalisation and death rates may be up sharply, but from very very low bases. From the England data it looks like no-one under 60 has died from Covid in months. That is not to write-off anyone over 60, but to re-frame the disease. It is much more treatable thanks to the vaccination programme.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,674
    edited July 2021

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    The dose figures are wrong

    First dose is 86% and second is 64.6%

    But this is iSage
    Total population (so includes U18)
    According to the FT chart, the 7 day rolling average infections was ~14k on Jun 26, and ~28k on Jul 7, so doubling in ~11 days (which week on week figures can't show you of course).

    ETA: More encouragingly, it is Jun 21 - Jul 7 for deaths to (slightly more than) double from a 7 day average 10 to a 7 day average of 23. So about 15-16 days for doubling.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211
    gealbhan said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    This group of “scientists” have gone completely bonkers, what they’re saying isn’t close to being bourne out by the evidence and statistics, but they’re becoming rediculously shrill in their statements.

    They also don’t have to balance the real-world costs of keeping the restrictions in place, with furlough, unemployment, business failures and crashing tax revenues weighing heavily on the minds of those actually making the decisions.

    It’s clear there will be no overwhelming of the health system, therefore there’s no need for the restrictions to remain. Domestically at least, in the U.K. the pandemic is over.
    Ha ha ha 😀

    They are not talking about overwhelming of NHS now, they are saying

    “exponential growth of COVID-19 will likely leave hundreds of thousands with long-term illness and disability".

    "This strategy risks creating a generation left with chronic health problems and disability, the personal and economic impacts of which might be felt for decades to come."

    “the strategy "provides fertile ground for the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants".

    “"The government has made a deliberate choice to expose children to mass infection, rather than protect them in schools or vaccinate them. This is unethical and unacceptable. Our young have already suffered so much in the past year, and are now being condemned to suffer the consequences of this dangerous experiment."

    Scientists are bonkers are they?

    Remember the PB maxim “the only right scientist is the one telling you what you want to hear”. 😀
    What's the address of Josiah Jessop's Scientist Shop, again?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,572

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    So what if it wasn't? The Dutch referee thought it was and VAR was not compelled to overturn it, which is all that matters.
    It's a pity to win by a debatable penalty, especially when we're the first to complain when it happens to us. But although I was supporting Denmark because of my background, the result is a fair reflection of the overall game.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,198

    I have the hangover from hell ffs

    same as the rest of england then...
    Slightly regretting opening the cooking brandy, for medicinal purposes...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    The dose figures are wrong

    First dose is 86% and second is 64.6%

    But this is iSage
    Total population (so includes U18)
    Thank you but misleading
    It does say it on the link. There has always been two ways of reporting this - in the UK we have consistently reported the percentages for the adult population (as they are the only ones currently that we are vaccinating). Elsewhere they have used the entire population.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,236

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    The dose figures are wrong

    First dose is 86% and second is 64.6%

    But this is iSage
    Total population (so includes U18)
    Thank you but misleading
    It's not misleading. The percentage dosed of the whole population is more important from an epidemiological point of view, while the percentage dose of the adult population is more important for judging how well the vaccine rollout is going. They are different answers to different questions and it's not accurate to say it is misleading to look at one rather than the other, unless one figure is misrepresented as being the other, which is not the case here.
    Though accurate, it is deliberately misleading - designed to be so in this publication - in that the silver bullet route out of lockdown was based on percentage of the adult population being covered by the vaccine. It is only now that we are close to the removal of legal restrictions that some are attempting to move the goalposts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,319
    Thailand reports 6,990 community cases of coronavirus, the biggest one-day increase so far, and a record 75 new deaths
    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1412973715797659652

    Only about 10% vaccinated, so not good.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049

    In regards to the football I think Southgate is using up all the luck other England Managers did not have.
    Some of his decisions I find bizarre

    What team in this tournament would Phil Foden not start for, he is world class which he looked when he came on yet Mason Mount who has done nothing is selected in front of him. In the 2nd half of extra time Denmark were out on their feet and down to 10 men. Yet Southgate decided to take off the sub Grealish and change our whole system of playing by going to 5 at the back. Go defensive against a team who are exhausted and down to 10 men?

    And the penalty! A terrible penalty where Kane basically passed to the goalie, yet somehow the ball managed to rebound off Schmeichel straight back to Kane.

    Its as if God has decided that England have had enough bad luck (remember the Sol Campbell goal against Argentina which was disallowed) and has blessed Southgate with all the good luck in the world.

    Mate. I was in the front rank of bemoaning our tactics vs Germany (receive the ball, turn to face Pickford). But we have been a different team in the last two games, pushing forward, pressing high, looking for the opening, playing the triangles. Dear god at times the team last night reminded me of glory days *rs*n*l (which is why I was terrified at 2-1).

    I think Southgate therefore gets a free pass on his tactics whatever little tweaks people might think he should make.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,669

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    This group of “scientists” have gone completely bonkers, what they’re saying isn’t close to being bourne out by the evidence and statistics, but they’re becoming rediculously shrill in their statements.

    They also don’t have to balance the real-world costs of keeping the restrictions in place, with furlough, unemployment, business failures and crashing tax revenues weighing heavily on the minds of those actually making the decisions.

    It’s clear there will be no overwhelming of the health system, therefore there’s no need for the restrictions to remain. Domestically at least, in the U.K. the pandemic is over.
    You're being a bit rash there - there's an argument that we should unlock for economic reasons, but both hospitalisation and death rates are up sharply as the previous increase in cases feeds through. There's also a tricky decision to make over whether to let NHS staff who "ping" stay at work with daily tests, or wait for the relaxation in August. If they wait, then hospitals will struggle to cope (not just with Covid). If they don't wait, then they may make hospitals more dangerous.

    Vaccination is working well and the situation is much less grave than 8 months ago. But we can't blithely say the pandemic is over. Even Johnson, always sanguine, is not saying that. We need to move carefully to avoid putting us back into difficulty.
    Hospitalisation and death rates may be up sharply, but from very very low bases. From the England data it looks like no-one under 60 has died from Covid in months. That is not to write-off anyone over 60, but to re-frame the disease. It is much more treatable thanks to the vaccination programme.
    As most of you know my wife's family live in Moray and we have a great interest in news from there

    Inverness, Elgin and Aberdeen hospitals are being overwhelmed but seemingly more by staff isolating than covid admissions

    This does raise the question that all four nations should exempt double vaccinated staff from isolation
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    Foxy said:

    I have the hangover from hell ffs

    same as the rest of england then...
    Slightly regretting opening the cooking brandy, for medicinal purposes...
    I opened a fresh bottle of Jura 'Journey' for extra time... Very nice! And cheap in Waitrose last week!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211
    Foxy said:

    I have the hangover from hell ffs

    same as the rest of england then...
    Slightly regretting opening the cooking brandy, for medicinal purposes...
    The mistake you made was violating Floyd's Dictum - "Never put alcohol you wouldn't drink in your cooking"

    The concept of cooking brandy, sherry etc is the problem.

    Get a bottle of Gautier Freres 1865 for your reductions :-)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    This group of “scientists” have gone completely bonkers, what they’re saying isn’t close to being bourne out by the evidence and statistics, but they’re becoming rediculously shrill in their statements.

    They also don’t have to balance the real-world costs of keeping the restrictions in place, with furlough, unemployment, business failures and crashing tax revenues weighing heavily on the minds of those actually making the decisions.

    It’s clear there will be no overwhelming of the health system, therefore there’s no need for the restrictions to remain. Domestically at least, in the U.K. the pandemic is over.
    You're being a bit rash there - there's an argument that we should unlock for economic reasons, but both hospitalisation and death rates are up sharply as the previous increase in cases feeds through. There's also a tricky decision to make over whether to let NHS staff who "ping" stay at work with daily tests, or wait for the relaxation in August. If they wait, then hospitals will struggle to cope (not just with Covid). If they don't wait, then they may make hospitals more dangerous.

    Vaccination is working well and the situation is much less grave than 8 months ago. But we can't blithely say the pandemic is over. Even Johnson, always sanguine, is not saying that. We need to move carefully to avoid putting us back into difficulty.
    Hospitalisation and death rates may be up sharply, but from very very low bases. From the England data it looks like no-one under 60 has died from Covid in months. That is not to write-off anyone over 60, but to re-frame the disease. It is much more treatable thanks to the vaccination programme.
    As most of you know my wife's family live in Moray and we have a great interest in news from there

    Inverness, Elgin and Aberdeen hospitals are being overwhelmed but seemingly more by staff isolating than covid admissions

    This does raise the question that all four nations should exempt double vaccinated staff from isolation
    Yep - the sooner the double jabbed can move to 'test negative after a contact' means carry on, the better.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    gealbhan said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    This group of “scientists” have gone completely bonkers, what they’re saying isn’t close to being bourne out by the evidence and statistics, but they’re becoming rediculously shrill in their statements.

    They also don’t have to balance the real-world costs of keeping the restrictions in place, with furlough, unemployment, business failures and crashing tax revenues weighing heavily on the minds of those actually making the decisions.

    It’s clear there will be no overwhelming of the health system, therefore there’s no need for the restrictions to remain. Domestically at least, in the U.K. the pandemic is over.
    Ha ha ha 😀

    They are not talking about overwhelming of NHS now, they are saying

    “exponential growth of COVID-19 will likely leave hundreds of thousands with long-term illness and disability".

    "This strategy risks creating a generation left with chronic health problems and disability, the personal and economic impacts of which might be felt for decades to come."

    “the strategy "provides fertile ground for the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants".

    “"The government has made a deliberate choice to expose children to mass infection, rather than protect them in schools or vaccinate them. This is unethical and unacceptable. Our young have already suffered so much in the past year, and are now being condemned to suffer the consequences of this dangerous experiment."

    Scientists are bonkers are they?

    Remember the PB maxim “the only right scientist is the one telling you what you want to hear”. 😀
    What's the address of Josiah Jessop's Scientist Shop, again?
    "Ah, sir. So you desire a long covid expert? Well, I've got an excellent one over here. As you can see, she's quite presentable; neat hair, good teeth, pleasant voice, a certain style with her clothing. Comes over well on TV. She's not an 'expert', of course, on long covid or anything else, but she'll say whatever'll get her on TV."
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,674
    edited July 2021
    pm215 said:

    kjh said:

    I appreciate this may be idealistic of me and I suspect the reasons for not coming out are to do with the reaction it would cause

    BUT in reality why should they come out? It is none of my business or anyone else as to whether someone is gay or not. We will know it doesn't matter when none of us care or are interested.

    Indeed, for any individual footballer it is and should be entirely their own choice whether to come out publicly, be 'out' in their personal life but simply never mention it in interviews, or remain closeted. But if we look at an entire group of people and observe that *none* of them are publicly known to be gay, we should strongly suspect that there is an underlying cultural/social/structural problem worth trying to address (for the benefit of the people who have to live and work within that flawed system).

    (In this way it's reminiscent of the "Bechdel Test" for films which looks for conversations between female characters about something other than a man -- many great films fail the test and it doesn't make them bad films; but if almost the entire output of the hollywood movie-making system is failing the test, we should presume an underlying systematic issue.)
    Hooray! Someone who knows that the Bechdel test isn't a pass/fail test for an individual film, but a systemic measure of representation! A rare soul.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Stocky said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    The dose figures are wrong

    First dose is 86% and second is 64.6%

    But this is iSage
    Total population (so includes U18)
    Thank you but misleading
    It's not misleading. The percentage dosed of the whole population is more important from an epidemiological point of view, while the percentage dose of the adult population is more important for judging how well the vaccine rollout is going. They are different answers to different questions and it's not accurate to say it is misleading to look at one rather than the other, unless one figure is misrepresented as being the other, which is not the case here.
    Though accurate, it is deliberately misleading - designed to be so in this publication - in that the silver bullet route out of lockdown was based on percentage of the adult population being covered by the vaccine. It is only now that we are close to the removal of legal restrictions that some are attempting to move the goalposts.
    AFAIK the Guardian have had the percentage vaccinated of total population on that dashboard from the start, unless someone has seen any different?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,674

    Foxy said:

    I have the hangover from hell ffs

    same as the rest of england then...
    Slightly regretting opening the cooking brandy, for medicinal purposes...
    The mistake you made was violating Floyd's Dictum - "Never put alcohol you wouldn't drink in your cooking"

    The concept of cooking brandy, sherry etc is the problem.

    Get a bottle of Gautier Freres 1865 for your reductions :-)
    Ah. But he did drink it...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,172

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    The dose figures are wrong

    First dose is 86% and second is 64.6%

    But this is iSage
    In 2021 everyone will be a statistician for 15 minutes
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/
    Some bloke from the home counties checking out the Daily Record sports section to see if they’re producing the required amount of enthusiasm for the England football team is peak something or other.
    Absurd Scottish bitterness about the English football team and absurd English paranoia about Scots' failure to support England are two cheeks of this same arse. Everyone needs to get over themselves.
    You can always depend on Anas to find the spot between those cheeks.


    I think this is the sweet spot. Joking aside, his position is the right one IMHO. Mind you, I am a Scot in England with England bunting on my house, so perhaps I am suffering from some kind of cognitive dissonance.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211

    gealbhan said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    This group of “scientists” have gone completely bonkers, what they’re saying isn’t close to being bourne out by the evidence and statistics, but they’re becoming rediculously shrill in their statements.

    They also don’t have to balance the real-world costs of keeping the restrictions in place, with furlough, unemployment, business failures and crashing tax revenues weighing heavily on the minds of those actually making the decisions.

    It’s clear there will be no overwhelming of the health system, therefore there’s no need for the restrictions to remain. Domestically at least, in the U.K. the pandemic is over.
    Ha ha ha 😀

    They are not talking about overwhelming of NHS now, they are saying

    “exponential growth of COVID-19 will likely leave hundreds of thousands with long-term illness and disability".

    "This strategy risks creating a generation left with chronic health problems and disability, the personal and economic impacts of which might be felt for decades to come."

    “the strategy "provides fertile ground for the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants".

    “"The government has made a deliberate choice to expose children to mass infection, rather than protect them in schools or vaccinate them. This is unethical and unacceptable. Our young have already suffered so much in the past year, and are now being condemned to suffer the consequences of this dangerous experiment."

    Scientists are bonkers are they?

    Remember the PB maxim “the only right scientist is the one telling you what you want to hear”. 😀
    What's the address of Josiah Jessop's Scientist Shop, again?
    "Ah, sir. So you desire a long covid expert? Well, I've got an excellent one over here. As you can see, she's quite presentable; neat hair, good teeth, pleasant voice, a certain style with her clothing. Comes over well on TV. She's not an 'expert', of course, on long covid or anything else, but she'll say whatever'll get her on TV."
    Apologies for mis-spelling your name.

    "Josias Jessop's Scientist Emporium".... that's better.... has the right "Victorian Carnival Barker" feel to it? I can almost hear a red faced man in an alarming waistcoat.....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    This group of “scientists” have gone completely bonkers, what they’re saying isn’t close to being bourne out by the evidence and statistics, but they’re becoming rediculously shrill in their statements.

    They also don’t have to balance the real-world costs of keeping the restrictions in place, with furlough, unemployment, business failures and crashing tax revenues weighing heavily on the minds of those actually making the decisions.

    It’s clear there will be no overwhelming of the health system, therefore there’s no need for the restrictions to remain. Domestically at least, in the U.K. the pandemic is over.
    You're being a bit rash there - there's an argument that we should unlock for economic reasons, but both hospitalisation and death rates are up sharply as the previous increase in cases feeds through. There's also a tricky decision to make over whether to let NHS staff who "ping" stay at work with daily tests, or wait for the relaxation in August. If they wait, then hospitals will struggle to cope (not just with Covid). If they don't wait, then they may make hospitals more dangerous.

    Vaccination is working well and the situation is much less grave than 8 months ago. But we can't blithely say the pandemic is over. Even Johnson, always sanguine, is not saying that. We need to move carefully to avoid putting us back into difficulty.
    Hospitalisation and death rates may be up sharply, but from very very low bases. From the England data it looks like no-one under 60 has died from Covid in months. That is not to write-off anyone over 60, but to re-frame the disease. It is much more treatable thanks to the vaccination programme.
    As most of you know my wife's family live in Moray and we have a great interest in news from there

    Inverness, Elgin and Aberdeen hospitals are being overwhelmed but seemingly more by staff isolating than covid admissions

    This does raise the question that all four nations should exempt double vaccinated staff from isolation
    Yesterday's Courier confirmed that Ninewells Hospital in Dundee has the highest number of cases in ICU since February but this sounds a lot more alarming than it actually is. There are currently 6 in ICU in Ninewells and 44 across Tayside which is down from the 53 there were on Sunday.

    There is no doubt that this particular wave is hitting Scotland harder than rUK and that this is causing some pressure on the NHS but it really needs to be kept in some form of proportion. The threat of Sturgeon delaying freedom day in Scotland is real but misguided.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,319
    China's gene giant harvests data from millions of women
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-china-bgi-dna-idUSKCN2ED1A6
    ...Reuters has found that BGI’s prenatal test, one of the most popular in the world, is a source of genetic data for the company, which has worked with the Chinese military to improve “population quality” and on genetic research to combat hearing loss and altitude sickness in soldiers.

    BGI says it stores and re-analyses left-over blood samples and genetic data from the prenatal tests, sold in at least 52 countries to detect abnormalities such as Down’s syndrome in the foetus. The tests – branded NIFTY for “Non-Invasive Fetal TrisomY” – also capture genetic information about the mother, as well as personal details such as her country, height and weight, but not her name, BGI computer code viewed by Reuters shows....


    Seems, at the very least, that those using the test were not fully aware of the use of their data.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,093
    edited July 2021
    kamski said:

    Rishi says they are ‘literally’ throwing the kitchen sink at helping people get back into work. Don’t think that’s going to help tbh.

    Jeez. And his school cost how much per term?
    What's next? `pacifically' in place of 'specifically'?
    Country is literally going to the dogs.
    Pacifically instead of specifically is a mistake.

    Using "literally" in this way is the pretty much the same as using "really" in the same way. "We are really throwing the kitchen sink at this". Does anybody complain that they aren't "really"?

    But because really has been completely absorbed as just an intensifier, literally works better as an attempt to revive a dead metaphor like "throwing the kitchen sink". Therefore it's better in this kind of example.
    No, no, no, no, no.
    You can't just arbitrarily decide to use a word to use the opposite of what it means.

    Like everyone else, I enjoy hearing the word 'literally' being misused, but it deserves mockery when it is. You can't just say 'oh, it's all right, he actually meant figuratively'. The sentence would have worked far better had he just left the word out.
    And if we allow literally to be used in this way we will have no word for when we are, literally, throwing a kitchen sink at something.

    This misuse of literally is years, maybe decades old now, but other more creative uses are also creeping into the language. I particularly enjoy the word 'literally' used where the listener could be in no possible doubt that you were speaking literally, as in "it's literally a nice light grey colour". The kids are also using literally to mean 'FFS' - as in: "Mum! Literally! Those are my sister's socks!", or just to mean 'er', or '...', as in for example "I was just, literally, ..."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211
    mwadams said:

    Foxy said:

    I have the hangover from hell ffs

    same as the rest of england then...
    Slightly regretting opening the cooking brandy, for medicinal purposes...
    The mistake you made was violating Floyd's Dictum - "Never put alcohol you wouldn't drink in your cooking"

    The concept of cooking brandy, sherry etc is the problem.

    Get a bottle of Gautier Freres 1865 for your reductions :-)
    Ah. But he did drink it...
    Yes - the moment that the fallacy crystallises...

    Having shit booze around the place is like having a loaded gun in the cabinet. No matter what you say about safety catches etc.....
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,951

    Foxy said:

    I have the hangover from hell ffs

    same as the rest of england then...
    Slightly regretting opening the cooking brandy, for medicinal purposes...
    The mistake you made was violating Floyd's Dictum - "Never put alcohol you wouldn't drink in your cooking"

    The concept of cooking brandy, sherry etc is the problem.

    Get a bottle of Gautier Freres 1865 for your reductions :-)
    I always thought that the reason for having cooking drinks was precisely so that you didn't drink them all and leave yourself with nothing when you needed it for cooking, not that it should be so foul you wouldn't want to drink it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    This group of “scientists” have gone completely bonkers, what they’re saying isn’t close to being bourne out by the evidence and statistics, but they’re becoming rediculously shrill in their statements.

    They also don’t have to balance the real-world costs of keeping the restrictions in place, with furlough, unemployment, business failures and crashing tax revenues weighing heavily on the minds of those actually making the decisions.

    It’s clear there will be no overwhelming of the health system, therefore there’s no need for the restrictions to remain. Domestically at least, in the U.K. the pandemic is over.
    You're being a bit rash there - there's an argument that we should unlock for economic reasons, but both hospitalisation and death rates are up sharply as the previous increase in cases feeds through. There's also a tricky decision to make over whether to let NHS staff who "ping" stay at work with daily tests, or wait for the relaxation in August. If they wait, then hospitals will struggle to cope (not just with Covid). If they don't wait, then they may make hospitals more dangerous.

    Vaccination is working well and the situation is much less grave than 8 months ago. But we can't blithely say the pandemic is over. Even Johnson, always sanguine, is not saying that. We need to move carefully to avoid putting us back into difficulty.
    I thought my language was quite temperate, compared to that used in the letter.

    The hospitalisation rates are now very low for the case numbers, with vaccinations having broken the link between testing positive and getting seriously ill. There’s also a strong suggestion that most people in hospital are unvaccinated by choice, in which case that’s the risk they take and it’s difficult to justify restrictions on businesses to take account of vaccine refuseniks.

    Yes, there’s questions about how the NHS should deal with positive cases among staff, but at the moment there’s an average of three people per Parliamentary constituency in hospital with Covid.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,443

    A good day to bury news.

    ‘Why is the government planning to scrap English Votes for English Laws?’

    Johnson’s neo-unionism reflects a British imaginary that sees devolved government and calls to provide some form of English-level recognition as sources of fragmentation, and resiles from the idea that the UK is a voluntary union of self-determining peoples. In taking this line his administration has triggered an increasingly open conflict with the pro-devolution unionist position, which was, until recently, the prevalent view in both Whitehall and Westminster.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/devolution/2021/07/why-government-planning-scrap-english-votes-english-laws

    One can, of course, advance a perfectly legitimate argument that devolution has been catastrophic for the Union, but a response that consists, essentially, of leaving it untouched where it already exists whilst failing to implement equivalence where it does not is the worst of all worlds. The only stable configurations for the UK are a federation or a unitary state, not the dog's breakfast that the idiot Blair bequeathed us.

    Of course, Boris Johnson is a lucky general. If the British state does finally founder, it'll almost certainly be on someone else's watch.
    If they wanted a unitary state they should have done it shortly after 1707. Yes, they successfully tricked the Scots nobility with English gold and juicy terms in the Treaty of Union, but they should have reneged on the lot in the first 10 years and effectively have imposed a unitary dictatorship on the whole island. By now GB would be as uniform as, say, Italy, Germany or France.

    The key error was allowing the College of Justice to continue to exist. And the Kirk.

    But far too late now.

    (I laugh when folk blame Blair. They obviously know zilch about the mood at the time. Blair was painted into a corner, and boy did he know it.)

    (As for “federation”: that’s the biggest yawn fest of Scottish politics. Gordon Brown’s neverending whine.)
    Excellent spot re EVEL, Stuart.

    I wondered if it was to make sure that the Tories could draw on all their MPs for future contentious English-only legislation, given that the SNP and IIRC also PC normally recuse themselves from such things, Barnett consequentials and suchlike apart.

    But that doesn't make much sense given current numbers and that it would also allow LDs, SLAB, Llafur, and revenge-bent DUP to vote.

    I'm wondering if there are two factors we are missing -

    1. Could be to remove a power of the Speaker and return it to Mr R-M's party position.
    2. Could be to neuter the obvious rebuttal to Tory election propaganda about how a Starmer-Sturgeon coalition would lead to the Scots ruling England, cue hysteria and brown golf trousers from Epping to Camborne ...

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,443
    algarkirk said:

    A good day to bury news.

    ‘Why is the government planning to scrap English Votes for English Laws?’

    Johnson’s neo-unionism reflects a British imaginary that sees devolved government and calls to provide some form of English-level recognition as sources of fragmentation, and resiles from the idea that the UK is a voluntary union of self-determining peoples. In taking this line his administration has triggered an increasingly open conflict with the pro-devolution unionist position, which was, until recently, the prevalent view in both Whitehall and Westminster.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/devolution/2021/07/why-government-planning-scrap-english-votes-english-laws

    One can, of course, advance a perfectly legitimate argument that devolution has been catastrophic for the Union, but a response that consists, essentially, of leaving it untouched where it already exists whilst failing to implement equivalence where it does not is the worst of all worlds. The only stable configurations for the UK are a federation or a unitary state, not the dog's breakfast that the idiot Blair bequeathed us.

    Of course, Boris Johnson is a lucky general. If the British state does finally founder, it'll almost certainly be on someone else's watch.
    If they wanted a unitary state they should have done it shortly after 1707. Yes, they successfully tricked the Scots nobility with English gold and juicy terms in the Treaty of Union, but they should have reneged on the lot in the first 10 years and effectively have imposed a unitary dictatorship on the whole island. By now GB would be as uniform as, say, Italy, Germany or France.

    The key error was allowing the College of Justice to continue to exist. And the Kirk.

    But far too late now.

    (I laugh when folk blame Blair. They obviously know zilch about the mood at the time. Blair was painted into a corner, and boy did he know it.)

    (As for “federation”: that’s the biggest yawn fest of Scottish politics. Gordon Brown’s neverending whine.)
    The idea that it would have been possible to marginalise presbyterianism in Scotland, and impose Anglicanism, in the early 1700s pays no regard to the realities of what had been happening since 1688. Apart from Roman Catholicism the post 1688 regime allowed religious toleration in England.



    Quite right. And since well before 1688 too. 1707 was bang in the middle of the Wars of the Covenant.

    To close down the Kirk and the legal system would have been to kick in the teeth the very establishment whiuch supported the Glorious Revolution, and, later, the Hanoverian succession.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515
    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Starmer on ITV. "The England team show what modern Britain is all about."

    What, utterly straight and male?

    Not very inclusive there, SKS ...

    (My one and only objection to the England team taking the knee is that it seems a slightly 'easy' cause. Given the number of footballers, it is slightly odd that there are no openly gay footballers in the male game. Well, it's not odd at all. https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/no-gay-footballers-in-the-premier-league )
    I suspect the biggest issue is that there would be a media circus around a player who came out. Beyond that, though, I suspect teammates are potentially a bigger issue that knobheads in the crowd. That article fails to mention one of the more illuminating press conferences given by a player:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/jun/12/euro-2012-antonio-cassano-gays
    I appreciate this may be idealistic of me and I suspect the reasons for not coming out are to do with the reaction it would cause

    BUT in reality why should they come out? It is none of my business or anyone else as to whether someone is gay or not. We will know it doesn't matter when none of us care or are interested.
    They shouldn't have to. But perhaps, just perhaps, some would prefer not to be living a lie? Your first line highlights the problem: why should it cause a reaction? They're gay, so what? Why does it matter to the fans and teammates?

    As an example, just look at the way that s** John Fashanu treated his little brother when he bravely came out. He's gone through several levels of shitbaggery: disowning Justin when he came out, only regretting it after Justin took his own life, and then later denying Justin was even gay.

    When the Premier League do try to address the issue, there's a sad reaction:
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/19/sport/lgbt-premier-league-social-intl-spt/index.html

    So yes, whilst it is an individual's choice, the fact that none feel able to come out is very telling, and a sad indictment on footballers, the clubs, and their fans.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,323
    Cookie said:

    kamski said:

    Rishi says they are ‘literally’ throwing the kitchen sink at helping people get back into work. Don’t think that’s going to help tbh.

    Jeez. And his school cost how much per term?
    What's next? `pacifically' in place of 'specifically'?
    Country is literally going to the dogs.
    Pacifically instead of specifically is a mistake.

    Using "literally" in this way is the pretty much the same as using "really" in the same way. "We are really throwing the kitchen sink at this". Does anybody complain that they aren't "really"?

    But because really has been completely absorbed as just an intensifier, literally works better as an attempt to revive a dead metaphor like "throwing the kitchen sink". Therefore it's better in this kind of example.
    No, no, no, no, no.
    You can't just arbitrarily decide to use a word to use the opposite of what it means.

    Like everyone else, I enjoy hearing the word 'literally' being misused, but it deserves mockery when it is. You can't just say 'oh, it's all right, he actually meant figuratively'. The sentence would have worked far better had he just left the word out.
    And if we allow literally to be used in this way we will have no word for when we are, literally, throwing a kitchen sink at something.

    This misuse of literally is years, maybe decades old now, but other more creative uses are also creeping into the language. I particularly enjoy the word 'literally' used where the listener could be in no possible doubt that you were speaking literally, as in "it's literally a nice light grey colour". The kids are also using literally to mean 'FFS' - as in: "Mum! Literally! Those are my sister's socks!", or just to mean 'er', or '...', as in for example "I was just, literally, ..."
    At least we seem to be immune to the Americanism “I could care less”.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,572

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    This group of “scientists” have gone completely bonkers, what they’re saying isn’t close to being bourne out by the evidence and statistics, but they’re becoming rediculously shrill in their statements.

    They also don’t have to balance the real-world costs of keeping the restrictions in place, with furlough, unemployment, business failures and crashing tax revenues weighing heavily on the minds of those actually making the decisions.

    It’s clear there will be no overwhelming of the health system, therefore there’s no need for the restrictions to remain. Domestically at least, in the U.K. the pandemic is over.
    You're being a bit rash there - there's an argument that we should unlock for economic reasons, but both hospitalisation and death rates are up sharply as the previous increase in cases feeds through. There's also a tricky decision to make over whether to let NHS staff who "ping" stay at work with daily tests, or wait for the relaxation in August. If they wait, then hospitals will struggle to cope (not just with Covid). If they don't wait, then they may make hospitals more dangerous.

    Vaccination is working well and the situation is much less grave than 8 months ago. But we can't blithely say the pandemic is over. Even Johnson, always sanguine, is not saying that. We need to move carefully to avoid putting us back into difficulty.
    Hospitalisation and death rates may be up sharply, but from very very low bases. From the England data it looks like no-one under 60 has died from Covid in months. That is not to write-off anyone over 60, but to re-frame the disease. It is much more treatable thanks to the vaccination programme.
    Yes, agreed on the last point (and you've looked at the age data more closely than I had), though I do think the 40% bounce in hospitalisation this week (to 2446) is a concern. The main remaining issues are (a) the extent and severity of long Covid in all age groups (nobody is quite sure about definition, spread, severity or duration) (b) avoiding hospitalisation and deaths in the vulnerable sectors accelerating because of rapid spread among the young.

    The position is much better than it was, as I said, but it's hyperbole to say that the pandemic is over. We've come a long way and just need to avoid spoiling it now.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,951
    mwadams said:

    pm215 said:

    kjh said:

    I appreciate this may be idealistic of me and I suspect the reasons for not coming out are to do with the reaction it would cause

    BUT in reality why should they come out? It is none of my business or anyone else as to whether someone is gay or not. We will know it doesn't matter when none of us care or are interested.

    Indeed, for any individual footballer it is and should be entirely their own choice whether to come out publicly, be 'out' in their personal life but simply never mention it in interviews, or remain closeted. But if we look at an entire group of people and observe that *none* of them are publicly known to be gay, we should strongly suspect that there is an underlying cultural/social/structural problem worth trying to address (for the benefit of the people who have to live and work within that flawed system).

    (In this way it's reminiscent of the "Bechdel Test" for films which looks for conversations between female characters about something other than a man -- many great films fail the test and it doesn't make them bad films; but if almost the entire output of the hollywood movie-making system is failing the test, we should presume an underlying systematic issue.)
    Hooray! Someone who knows that the Bechdel test isn't a pass/fail test for an individual film, but a systemic measure of representation! A rare soul.
    I always thought that the interesting thing to do with the Bechdel test would be to also run it in reverse (two make characters talking about something other than a woman), as that would then give you an idea of what you're aiming for (to have the two equal) rather than the implied target of every film passing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited July 2021
    rkrkrk said:

    The govt should be straight with the British public. They clearly have modelling on what 100k cases/whatever the expectation is -> means in terms of hospitalizations & deaths. They should release it. The public has a right to know.

    Thay is exactly what is happening in next few days......as reported by the Evening Standard yesterday.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,640

    I have the hangover from hell ffs

    good lad :D
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Foxy said:

    I have the hangover from hell ffs

    same as the rest of england then...
    Slightly regretting opening the cooking brandy, for medicinal purposes...
    The mistake you made was violating Floyd's Dictum - "Never put alcohol you wouldn't drink in your cooking"

    The concept of cooking brandy, sherry etc is the problem.

    Get a bottle of Gautier Freres 1865 for your reductions :-)
    One of my favourite family memories, was of my father’s face late one Christmas Eve, when we were preparing the next day’s food and drink - and he realised that all we had to put in the brandy butter was Remy Martin XO :o
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    For a Labour supporter Sunday's fixture - where the people's heroes in red look likely to be undone by the dark arts of the blue team - has a sad aura of familiarity. As always, it's the hope that keeps us going, and the hope that will break our heart.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    Boris in the clear for the Mustique holiday, apparently.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,951

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
    Check out the sports news on the Daily https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/
    Some bloke from the home counties checking out the Daily Record sports section to see if they’re producing the required amount of enthusiasm for the England football team is peak something or other.
    Absurd Scottish bitterness about the English football team and absurd English paranoia about Scots' failure to support England are two cheeks of this same arse. Everyone needs to get over themselves.
    You can always depend on Anas to find the spot between those cheeks.


    I think this is the sweet spot. Joking aside, his position is the right one IMHO. Mind you, I am a Scot in England with England bunting on my house, so perhaps I am suffering from some kind of cognitive dissonance.
    I'm an Englishman in Scotland with a Scotland flag affixed to my bicycle. Flexibility on these issues is a virtue.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,882
    This morning, you know who I feel most sorry for?
    It's not the Danish team. Or the Spanish. Or anyone else who has been knocked out of Euro 2020 unfairly.

    It's my 9 year old daughter.

    She said to me this morning that we're going to finish at least second, and that's really good. And we got to the Semi-finals in 2018! So England are really good.

    She doesn't remember before that. The defeat to Iceland, and the thirty years of agony of watching England.

    My poor child. She's got all this to come. Because normal service will be resumed very shortly I'm sure.......
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,950
    edited July 2021
    pm215 said:

    kjh said:

    I appreciate this may be idealistic of me and I suspect the reasons for not coming out are to do with the reaction it would cause

    BUT in reality why should they come out? It is none of my business or anyone else as to whether someone is gay or not. We will know it doesn't matter when none of us care or are interested.

    Indeed, for any individual footballer it is and should be entirely their own choice whether to come out publicly, be 'out' in their personal life but simply never mention it in interviews, or remain closeted. But if we look at an entire group of people and observe that *none* of them are publicly known to be gay, we should strongly suspect that there is an underlying cultural/social/structural problem worth trying to address (for the benefit of the people who have to live and work within that flawed system).

    (In this way it's reminiscent of the "Bechdel Test" for films which looks for conversations between female characters about something other than a man -- many great films fail the test and it doesn't make them bad films; but if almost the entire output of the hollywood movie-making system is failing the test, we should presume an underlying systematic issue.)
    Agree 100%.

    At the moment people don't come out because other people care, in an unpleasant way. In the future it would be nice if people don't come out in public because people don't care in a totally disinterested way.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,319
    Cookie said:

    kamski said:

    Rishi says they are ‘literally’ throwing the kitchen sink at helping people get back into work. Don’t think that’s going to help tbh.

    Jeez. And his school cost how much per term?
    What's next? `pacifically' in place of 'specifically'?
    Country is literally going to the dogs.
    Pacifically instead of specifically is a mistake.

    Using "literally" in this way is the pretty much the same as using "really" in the same way. "We are really throwing the kitchen sink at this". Does anybody complain that they aren't "really"?

    But because really has been completely absorbed as just an intensifier, literally works better as an attempt to revive a dead metaphor like "throwing the kitchen sink". Therefore it's better in this kind of example.
    No, no, no, no, no.
    You can't just arbitrarily decide to use a word to use the opposite of what it means....
    You literally can.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited July 2021

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    This group of “scientists” have gone completely bonkers, what they’re saying isn’t close to being bourne out by the evidence and statistics, but they’re becoming rediculously shrill in their statements.

    They also don’t have to balance the real-world costs of keeping the restrictions in place, with furlough, unemployment, business failures and crashing tax revenues weighing heavily on the minds of those actually making the decisions.

    It’s clear there will be no overwhelming of the health system, therefore there’s no need for the restrictions to remain. Domestically at least, in the U.K. the pandemic is over.
    You're being a bit rash there - there's an argument that we should unlock for economic reasons, but both hospitalisation and death rates are up sharply as the previous increase in cases feeds through. There's also a tricky decision to make over whether to let NHS staff who "ping" stay at work with daily tests, or wait for the relaxation in August. If they wait, then hospitals will struggle to cope (not just with Covid). If they don't wait, then they may make hospitals more dangerous.

    Vaccination is working well and the situation is much less grave than 8 months ago. But we can't blithely say the pandemic is over. Even Johnson, always sanguine, is not saying that. We need to move carefully to avoid putting us back into difficulty.
    Hospitalisation and death rates may be up sharply, but from very very low bases. From the England data it looks like no-one under 60 has died from Covid in months. That is not to write-off anyone over 60, but to re-frame the disease. It is much more treatable thanks to the vaccination programme.
    Yes, agreed on the last point (and you've looked at the age data more closely than I had), though I do think the 40% bounce in hospitalisation this week (to 2446) is a concern. The main remaining issues are (a) the extent and severity of long Covid in all age groups (nobody is quite sure about definition, spread, severity or duration) (b) avoiding hospitalisation and deaths in the vulnerable sectors accelerating because of rapid spread among the young.

    The position is much better than it was, as I said, but it's hyperbole to say that the pandemic is over. We've come a long way and just need to avoid spoiling it now.
    There appear to be 122k hospital beds in the UK (across all specialities). We are at 81% capacity which again appears to be a 10-year low.

    Edit: although they do say "caution should be exercised in comparing overall occupancy rates between this year and previous years. " on account of Covid.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    edited July 2021
    Cookie said:

    kamski said:

    Rishi says they are ‘literally’ throwing the kitchen sink at helping people get back into work. Don’t think that’s going to help tbh.

    Jeez. And his school cost how much per term?
    What's next? `pacifically' in place of 'specifically'?
    Country is literally going to the dogs.
    Pacifically instead of specifically is a mistake.

    Using "literally" in this way is the pretty much the same as using "really" in the same way. "We are really throwing the kitchen sink at this". Does anybody complain that they aren't "really"?

    But because really has been completely absorbed as just an intensifier, literally works better as an attempt to revive a dead metaphor like "throwing the kitchen sink". Therefore it's better in this kind of example.
    No, no, no, no, no.
    You can't just arbitrarily decide to use a word to use the opposite of what it means.

    Like everyone else, I enjoy hearing the word 'literally' being misused, but it deserves mockery when it is. You can't just say 'oh, it's all right, he actually meant figuratively'. The sentence would have worked far better had he just left the word out.
    And if we allow literally to be used in this way we will have no word for when we are, literally, throwing a kitchen sink at something.

    This misuse of literally is years, maybe decades old now, but other more creative uses are also creeping into the language. I particularly enjoy the word 'literally' used where the listener could be in no possible doubt that you were speaking literally, as in "it's literally a nice light grey colour". The kids are also using literally to mean 'FFS' - as in: "Mum! Literally! Those are my sister's socks!", or just to mean 'er', or '...', as in for example "I was just, literally, ..."
    It's not me arbitrarily deciding, it's how the word is used - and it performs the useful function of bringing dead metaphors back to life. You've heard the expression "she was glued to the TV" so often that you no longer picture someone really glued to a television, but when someone says "she was literally glued to the TV" it might still bring that image to your mind, so an effective use of language.

    In both your examples you could replace the word "literally" with "really"
    "it's really a nice light grey colour" - where nobody could doubt that you meant in reality
    "Mum! Really! Those are my sister's socks!"

    I'm not sure why if you don't have a problem with "really" in those examples, you would have a problem with "literally"
    In fact, "literally" is more effective because it is still slightly fresh, whereas "really" has hardly any power at all any more.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211

    Foxy said:

    I have the hangover from hell ffs

    same as the rest of england then...
    Slightly regretting opening the cooking brandy, for medicinal purposes...
    The mistake you made was violating Floyd's Dictum - "Never put alcohol you wouldn't drink in your cooking"

    The concept of cooking brandy, sherry etc is the problem.

    Get a bottle of Gautier Freres 1865 for your reductions :-)
    I always thought that the reason for having cooking drinks was precisely so that you didn't drink them all and leave yourself with nothing when you needed it for cooking, not that it should be so foul you wouldn't want to drink it.
    Much easier to simply have enough to drink and cook with. That way you don't make dangerous mistakes.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,947

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    The Guardian and Numbers, from that piece about the 'expert' letter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    "Cases doubling every 9 days"


    Their own dashboard embedded in the article shows cases up by only 25% in a week.


    It really is ridiculous. Cases are not doubling over such periods and the rate of increase is clearly slowing down. I think we are not yet at peak but we are close.
    The dose figures are wrong

    First dose is 86% and second is 64.6%

    But this is iSage
    In 2021 everyone will be a statistician for 15 minutes
    The isage figures are total population, the gov dashboard is 18 and above.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Anyone thing the Govt talking up 100k cases a week etc is because current modelling has this at top end of worse case scenarios, they are confident that modelling has generally been pessimistic anyway, and it is effectively expectations management. So if cases did top out at 50-60k then the doom-mongers who are currently shrieking about how the govt “won’t release the data because it’s so bad” will look rather silly?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049

    Cookie said:

    kamski said:

    Rishi says they are ‘literally’ throwing the kitchen sink at helping people get back into work. Don’t think that’s going to help tbh.

    Jeez. And his school cost how much per term?
    What's next? `pacifically' in place of 'specifically'?
    Country is literally going to the dogs.
    Pacifically instead of specifically is a mistake.

    Using "literally" in this way is the pretty much the same as using "really" in the same way. "We are really throwing the kitchen sink at this". Does anybody complain that they aren't "really"?

    But because really has been completely absorbed as just an intensifier, literally works better as an attempt to revive a dead metaphor like "throwing the kitchen sink". Therefore it's better in this kind of example.
    No, no, no, no, no.
    You can't just arbitrarily decide to use a word to use the opposite of what it means.

    Like everyone else, I enjoy hearing the word 'literally' being misused, but it deserves mockery when it is. You can't just say 'oh, it's all right, he actually meant figuratively'. The sentence would have worked far better had he just left the word out.
    And if we allow literally to be used in this way we will have no word for when we are, literally, throwing a kitchen sink at something.

    This misuse of literally is years, maybe decades old now, but other more creative uses are also creeping into the language. I particularly enjoy the word 'literally' used where the listener could be in no possible doubt that you were speaking literally, as in "it's literally a nice light grey colour". The kids are also using literally to mean 'FFS' - as in: "Mum! Literally! Those are my sister's socks!", or just to mean 'er', or '...', as in for example "I was just, literally, ..."
    At least we seem to be immune to the Americanism “I could care less”.
    "Lucked out" was always one I needed to run over in my mind before I could see which way round it was.
This discussion has been closed.