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Not much politics on today’s front pages – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,018
edited July 2021 in General
imageNot much politics on today’s front pages – politicalbetting.com

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited July 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I agree with Sandy and others: the period when we played Ole football was possibly the most impressive bit of all

    It felt like watching a supremely confident German or Italian side in their pomp, and that is high praise

    England now have possibly the best collection of young talent in Europe. Mount, Foden, Sancho, Bellingham, Saka, Hudson-Odoi, Greenwood, Rashford....I could go on....we really aren't the sick man of Europe kick it and rush, if you spill my pint I will bite your legs...we have seriousky world class technical players.
    Yes. The two most talented squads in Europe (the world?) are England and France

    When Foden came on - my God. He's brilliant
    I don't quite understand how this happened.
    England had the golden generation, who never really achieved anything, and then when they retired about 2010 the cupboard seemed almost laughably bare.
    Prospects for England ever being any good again seemed remote. Our kids were no longer interested in football, we were told - didn't play it in the streets any more, all the playing fields being built over.
    They even lost to Iceland in 2016.
    And now look - the most talented young squad in Europe.

    Presumably this hasn't happened by accident. Presumably a lot of work has gone into youth development. The results are very impressive.

    Highly professional academy system and influx of foreign managers with their weird continental ways of working on players technical abilites and also much more advanced tactical systems.
    Yes, I remember when the first reports came in: how the English FA had sat down and said, OK, what are Spain and Italy and France and Germany doing, why is it better than our system, and how do we copy them?

    It seemed simple, and promising. It is exactly what we did in the Olympics. We sat down and said Who do we copy, and the answer was AUSTRALIA and so we copied them, and in the last 3 Olympics we have been the best performing medal nation per capita, I think

    Copy the best, and then exceed them. That's it. And it is basically what every great performer/artist does.

    It appears we might now be doing it, finally, in soccer. Yay
    Unfortunately this Olympics, particularly athletics Team GB is weakest its been for a number of games.
    Does Richardson (frankly ludicrous) exclusion help Asher Smith.
    Do we have any male hopefuls at all ?
    Adam Gemili is always there or there abouts in the 200m for 3-4-5th.

    On the women's side a half fit Katarina Johnson-Thompson I think is best hope. Laura Muir perhaps.

    Not much more than that really.

    There are quite a few events where Team GB doesn't even have a qualified athlete.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited July 2021
    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Surely theres an election somewhere in Europe to talk about?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    Keeping the semi finals in Wembley feels like a Boris decision.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited July 2021
    International Independent SAGE weighing in now....

    Writing in the Lancet, more than 100 global experts warn that removing restrictions on 19 July will cause millions of infections and risk creating a generation with chronic health problems and disability from long Covid, the impact of which may be felt for decades.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    International Independent SAGE weighing in now....

    Writing in the Lancet, more than 100 global experts warn that removing restrictions on 19 July will cause millions of infections and risk creating a generation with chronic health problems and disability from long Covid, the impact of which may be felt for decades.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    How can I put this .. fuck off sage
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    International Independent SAGE weighing in now....

    Writing in the Lancet, more than 100 global experts warn that removing restrictions on 19 July will cause millions of infections and risk creating a generation with chronic health problems and disability from long Covid, the impact of which may be felt for decades.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    I have no issue with putting that view in principle, so long as theres no deliberate attempt to mislead (as Indy Sage do via their name).
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    Losing in the final is going to be so much worse ffs
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited July 2021
    The Gruardian tomorrow seem to have managed to have several different articles written by or reporting on Indepedent SAGE claims, often not mentioning they are as such e.g.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/07/living-with-the-virus-uk-vaccinated-covid-cases
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Losing in the final is going to be so much worse ffs

    Nah, decades have inured us to any disappointment having got this far.

    Same way Test Cricket in the 90s means no England performance, however bad, can faze me.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,056

    International Independent SAGE weighing in now....

    Writing in the Lancet, more than 100 global experts warn that removing restrictions on 19 July will cause millions of infections and risk creating a generation with chronic health problems and disability from long Covid, the impact of which may be felt for decades.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    This is so disingenuous. If it were urgent to suppress this wave then we would need new tighter restrictions rather than a delay in reopening.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Losing in the final is going to be so much worse ffs

    I live in Bedford where 29% of the population are of Italian descent and this is the worst possible final. There've been serious street disturbances in the past.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,161
    MaxPB said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    Keeping the semi finals in Wembley feels like a Boris decision.
    Filling the stadium with 64,000 England fans certainly was.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,161

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Israel COVID update:

    - New cases: 486
    - Average: 372 (+28)
    - In hospital: 80 (+7)
    - In ICU: 19 (+2)
    - New deaths: 0

    Population vaccinated:
    - 1st dose: 61.16% (+0.18)
    - 2nd dose: 55.76% (+0.04)
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,956
    edited July 2021

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960

    International Independent SAGE weighing in now....

    Writing in the Lancet, more than 100 global experts warn that removing restrictions on 19 July will cause millions of infections and risk creating a generation with chronic health problems and disability from long Covid, the impact of which may be felt for decades.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    This is so disingenuous. If it were urgent to suppress this wave then we would need new tighter restrictions rather than a delay in reopening.
    Not only that, but if we are not going to vaccinate children, then they are all going to end up catching Delta - the only question is when.

    If there was a genuine case that Delta would overwhelm the ability of the health services to cope, as was very much the case in the two previous peaks, then there would be a case for saying "we need to manage this, so that health care capacity is not overwhelmed". But that's not the case right now.

    So, "not opening up now" is just a euphemism for "let your kids catch it a little later in the year while we all endure additional restrictions because...".

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960

    Israel COVID update:

    - New cases: 486
    - Average: 372 (+28)
    - In hospital: 80 (+7)
    - In ICU: 19 (+2)
    - New deaths: 0

    Population vaccinated:
    - 1st dose: 61.16% (+0.18)
    - 2nd dose: 55.76% (+0.04)

    That's not so bad, actually: with lower numbers of new cases than the last couple of days.

    It's also worth remembering that Israel actively tests all people who come into contact with any infection, so there will presumably be a fair number of asymptomatic or very mild cases.

    Good to see vaccinations moving up again.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    NEW: South Korea reports 1,275 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,582

    NEW: South Korea reports 1,275 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record

    What happened to their world-beating track and trace system?
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    “Not much politics”?!? Pull the other one. This is politics at its purest: the affairs of the nation.

    And the nation in question is not the trashy cooked-up brand Yookania, but that forgotten, nay almost forbidden nation, which means more to them than any other. That nation is England.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,347
    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
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    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    I've watched again a few times and I actually now think it was, not because of the legs but because of the second upper body check. Sterling was through.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Football - who the f*** cares? ! ? Although clearly leaving the EU clearly inspired most of the home nations to excel themselves this year :smiley:
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,557
    RIP Carlos Reutemann.
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    If the two victorious teams play on Sunday like they did in the semis then it will be a heck of a final.

    If you're neutral you have to love the way the Italians play football these days under Mancini. It's a crying shame we won't see the crazy and brilliant Spinazzola. But England also upped the tempo last night which was refreshing to see.

    Could be a classic if they don't go back into their shells.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Losing in the final is going to be so much worse ffs

    No, whatever happens now this is a breakthrough. Although that said, I shall continue to channel the energy of Radical Pessimism, to try to scupper the Italians: the final is going to be a disaster, in which England will turn out to be an eminently moveable object pitted against an irresistible force, and Italy will win 3-0 or something. Just a few more doom-laden predictions left to go...

    Losing in the final is going to be so much worse ffs

    I live in Bedford where 29% of the population are of Italian descent and this is the worst possible final. There've been serious street disturbances in the past.
    It's also nice to see someone else share in shouldering the heavy burden of miserablism...

    International Independent SAGE weighing in now....

    Writing in the Lancet, more than 100 global experts warn that removing restrictions on 19 July will cause millions of infections and risk creating a generation with chronic health problems and disability from long Covid, the impact of which may be felt for decades.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    And the gold medal winners at the World Miserablism Championships speaketh!
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    Losing in the final is going to be so much worse ffs

    I live in Bedford where 29% of the population are of Italian descent and this is the worst possible final. There've been serious street disturbances in the past.
    I used to live there including when they won the World Cup in 1982. It was amazing.

    Two great sides and generally this competition has been played in a really great spirit. I hink there's a collective sigh of relief after covid. I just wish Boris would extend the courtesy of special arrangements for Italian fans to fly in.

    Let's pack Wembley to capacity.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    A good day to bury news.

    ‘Why is the government planning to scrap English Votes for English Laws?’

    Johnson’s neo-unionism reflects a British imaginary that sees devolved government and calls to provide some form of English-level recognition as sources of fragmentation, and resiles from the idea that the UK is a voluntary union of self-determining peoples. In taking this line his administration has triggered an increasingly open conflict with the pro-devolution unionist position, which was, until recently, the prevalent view in both Whitehall and Westminster.


    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/devolution/2021/07/why-government-planning-scrap-english-votes-english-laws
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    I've watched again a few times and I actually now think it was, not because of the legs but because of the second upper body check. Sterling was through.
    Only it wouldn't matter if it wasn't. From the hand of God goal downwards, England have got the shit end of the stick for decades. They're long overdue a run of good fortune.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,557

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    I've watched again a few times and I actually now think it was, not because of the legs but because of the second upper body check. Sterling was through.
    I agree… there seems to be a tendency to ignore anything that happens above the waist.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    The more de Pfeffel associates himself with Churchill’s forbidden word the better.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,270
    The excitement has built to the point where Mount Etna has erupted again.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,892

    If the two victorious teams play on Sunday like they did in the semis then it will be a heck of a final.

    If you're neutral you have to love the way the Italians play football these days under Mancini. It's a crying shame we won't see the crazy and brilliant Spinazzola. But England also upped the tempo last night which was refreshing to see.

    Could be a classic if they don't go back into their shells.

    Sadly, cup final matches rarely live up to the billing, too much expectation from the supporters and pressure on the teams.

    Statistically, the most likely score line is 1-0, which would be shame after two great semi-finals.

    But it’s coming home. Who’d have thought that song, talking about 30 years of hurt, would need 25 years more, before we again reached a major final.
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    borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    Does MOTD have a shoe sponsor?

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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited July 2021

    A good day to bury news.

    ‘Why is the government planning to scrap English Votes for English Laws?’

    Johnson’s neo-unionism reflects a British imaginary that sees devolved government and calls to provide some form of English-level recognition as sources of fragmentation, and resiles from the idea that the UK is a voluntary union of self-determining peoples. In taking this line his administration has triggered an increasingly open conflict with the pro-devolution unionist position, which was, until recently, the prevalent view in both Whitehall and Westminster.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/devolution/2021/07/why-government-planning-scrap-english-votes-english-laws

    One can, of course, advance a perfectly legitimate argument that devolution has been catastrophic for the Union, but a response that consists, essentially, of leaving it untouched where it already exists whilst failing to implement equivalence where it does not is the worst of all worlds. The only stable configurations for the UK are a federation or a unitary state, not the dog's breakfast that the idiot Blair bequeathed us.

    Of course, Boris Johnson is a lucky general. If the British state does finally founder, it'll almost certainly be on someone else's watch.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    kle4 said:

    Surely theres an election somewhere in Europe to talk about?

    There was nearly one imminent in Sweden, but yesterday PM Stefan Löfven (social democrat) was successfully re-elected by the riksdag.

    This whole episode has been an embarrassing setback for the Moderate Party (=Tory “wet”) leader Ulf Kristersson: he failed miserably in his attempt to cobble together a new parliamentary bloc. His weakness was on full view for the nation. His only saving grace is that Swedes have *extremely* long holidays, and most people long ago switched off their screens and removed to the cabin/boat/beach/forest. They’ll only start paying attention again in September.

    The Liberal Party are history at parliamentary level. The last year has been one disaster after another, topped by a key MP refusing the whip yesterday. They’ll be lucky to get 2% in next year’s GE (the threshold is 4%).

    The long list of winners from the turmoil of the past weeks include:
    Stefan Löfven: an outstanding negotiator and a cool head
    The Centre Party (=agrarian lib demmish, centre-right greens)
    The Left Party (re-named Communists)
    The Sweden Democrats (=Boris Johnson/Nigel Farage fellow travellers)

    Mugs:
    The Moderate Party
    The Christian Democrats
    The Greens

    Idiots of the year:
    The Liberal Party
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    I agree. British nationalism is very intrusive.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    I agree. British nationalism is very intrusive.
    Agreed. Look at the SNP and all their dodgy dealings, they’re never out of the papers.
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    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,417
    edited July 2021
    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    A good day to bury news.

    ‘Why is the government planning to scrap English Votes for English Laws?’

    Johnson’s neo-unionism reflects a British imaginary that sees devolved government and calls to provide some form of English-level recognition as sources of fragmentation, and resiles from the idea that the UK is a voluntary union of self-determining peoples. In taking this line his administration has triggered an increasingly open conflict with the pro-devolution unionist position, which was, until recently, the prevalent view in both Whitehall and Westminster.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/devolution/2021/07/why-government-planning-scrap-english-votes-english-laws

    One can, of course, advance a perfectly legitimate argument that devolution has been catastrophic for the Union, but a response that consists, essentially, of leaving it untouched where it already exists whilst failing to implement equivalence where it does not is the worst of all worlds. The only stable configurations for the UK are a federation or a unitary state, not the dog's breakfast that the idiot Blair bequeathed us.

    Of course, Boris Johnson is a lucky general. If the British state does finally founder, it'll almost certainly be on someone else's watch.
    If they wanted a unitary state they should have done it shortly after 1707. Yes, they successfully tricked the Scots nobility with English gold and juicy terms in the Treaty of Union, but they should have reneged on the lot in the first 10 years and effectively have imposed a unitary dictatorship on the whole island. By now GB would be as uniform as, say, Italy, Germany or France.

    The key error was allowing the College of Justice to continue to exist. And the Kirk.

    But far too late now.

    (I laugh when folk blame Blair. They obviously know zilch about the mood at the time. Blair was painted into a corner, and boy did he know it.)

    (As for “federation”: that’s the biggest yawn fest of Scottish politics. Gordon Brown’s neverending whine.)
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    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,417

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I agree with Sandy and others: the period when we played Ole football was possibly the most impressive bit of all

    It felt like watching a supremely confident German or Italian side in their pomp, and that is high praise

    England now have possibly the best collection of young talent in Europe. Mount, Foden, Sancho, Bellingham, Saka, Hudson-Odoi, Greenwood, Rashford....I could go on....we really aren't the sick man of Europe kick it and rush, if you spill my pint I will bite your legs...we have seriousky world class technical players.
    Yes. The two most talented squads in Europe (the world?) are England and France

    When Foden came on - my God. He's brilliant
    I don't quite understand how this happened.
    England had the golden generation, who never really achieved anything, and then when they retired about 2010 the cupboard seemed almost laughably bare.
    Prospects for England ever being any good again seemed remote. Our kids were no longer interested in football, we were told - didn't play it in the streets any more, all the playing fields being built over.
    They even lost to Iceland in 2016.
    And now look - the most talented young squad in Europe.

    Presumably this hasn't happened by accident. Presumably a lot of work has gone into youth development. The results are very impressive.

    Highly professional academy system and influx of foreign managers with their weird continental ways of working on players technical abilites and also much more advanced tactical systems.
    Yes, I remember when the first reports came in: how the English FA had sat down and said, OK, what are Spain and Italy and France and Germany doing, why is it better than our system, and how do we copy them?

    It seemed simple, and promising. It is exactly what we did in the Olympics. We sat down and said Who do we copy, and the answer was AUSTRALIA and so we copied them, and in the last 3 Olympics we have been the best performing medal nation per capita, I think

    Copy the best, and then exceed them. That's it. And it is basically what every great performer/artist does.

    It appears we might now be doing it, finally, in soccer. Yay
    Unfortunately this Olympics, particularly athletics Team GB is weakest its been for a number of games.
    Does Richardson (frankly ludicrous) exclusion help Asher Smith.
    Do we have any male hopefuls at all ?
    Adam Gemili is always there or there abouts in the 200m for 3-4-5th.

    On the women's side a half fit Katarina Johnson-Thompson I think is best hope. Laura Muir perhaps.

    Not much more than that really.

    There are quite a few events where Team GB doesn't even have a qualified athlete.
    I think the swimming is a far better prospect for GB than athletics this time
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,289
    I just popped over to The Scotsman. England story is third one down. That seems about right.

    Also Health Sec not promising there won't be further lockdowns this winter.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,270

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I agree with Sandy and others: the period when we played Ole football was possibly the most impressive bit of all

    It felt like watching a supremely confident German or Italian side in their pomp, and that is high praise

    England now have possibly the best collection of young talent in Europe. Mount, Foden, Sancho, Bellingham, Saka, Hudson-Odoi, Greenwood, Rashford....I could go on....we really aren't the sick man of Europe kick it and rush, if you spill my pint I will bite your legs...we have seriousky world class technical players.
    Yes. The two most talented squads in Europe (the world?) are England and France

    When Foden came on - my God. He's brilliant
    I don't quite understand how this happened.
    England had the golden generation, who never really achieved anything, and then when they retired about 2010 the cupboard seemed almost laughably bare.
    Prospects for England ever being any good again seemed remote. Our kids were no longer interested in football, we were told - didn't play it in the streets any more, all the playing fields being built over.
    They even lost to Iceland in 2016.
    And now look - the most talented young squad in Europe.

    Presumably this hasn't happened by accident. Presumably a lot of work has gone into youth development. The results are very impressive.

    Highly professional academy system and influx of foreign managers with their weird continental ways of working on players technical abilites and also much more advanced tactical systems.
    Yes, I remember when the first reports came in: how the English FA had sat down and said, OK, what are Spain and Italy and France and Germany doing, why is it better than our system, and how do we copy them?

    It seemed simple, and promising. It is exactly what we did in the Olympics. We sat down and said Who do we copy, and the answer was AUSTRALIA and so we copied them, and in the last 3 Olympics we have been the best performing medal nation per capita, I think

    Copy the best, and then exceed them. That's it. And it is basically what every great performer/artist does.

    It appears we might now be doing it, finally, in soccer. Yay
    Unfortunately this Olympics, particularly athletics Team GB is weakest its been for a number of games.
    Does Richardson (frankly ludicrous) exclusion help Asher Smith.
    Do we have any male hopefuls at all ?
    Adam Gemili is always there or there abouts in the 200m for 3-4-5th.

    On the women's side a half fit Katarina Johnson-Thompson I think is best hope. Laura Muir perhaps.

    Not much more than that really.

    There are quite a few events where Team GB doesn't even have a qualified athlete.
    I think the swimming is a far better prospect for GB than athletics this time
    Watching swimming is pretty boring
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I agree with Sandy and others: the period when we played Ole football was possibly the most impressive bit of all

    It felt like watching a supremely confident German or Italian side in their pomp, and that is high praise

    England now have possibly the best collection of young talent in Europe. Mount, Foden, Sancho, Bellingham, Saka, Hudson-Odoi, Greenwood, Rashford....I could go on....we really aren't the sick man of Europe kick it and rush, if you spill my pint I will bite your legs...we have seriousky world class technical players.
    Yes. The two most talented squads in Europe (the world?) are England and France

    When Foden came on - my God. He's brilliant
    I don't quite understand how this happened.
    England had the golden generation, who never really achieved anything, and then when they retired about 2010 the cupboard seemed almost laughably bare.
    Prospects for England ever being any good again seemed remote. Our kids were no longer interested in football, we were told - didn't play it in the streets any more, all the playing fields being built over.
    They even lost to Iceland in 2016.
    And now look - the most talented young squad in Europe.

    Presumably this hasn't happened by accident. Presumably a lot of work has gone into youth development. The results are very impressive.

    Highly professional academy system and influx of foreign managers with their weird continental ways of working on players technical abilites and also much more advanced tactical systems.
    Yes, I remember when the first reports came in: how the English FA had sat down and said, OK, what are Spain and Italy and France and Germany doing, why is it better than our system, and how do we copy them?

    It seemed simple, and promising. It is exactly what we did in the Olympics. We sat down and said Who do we copy, and the answer was AUSTRALIA and so we copied them, and in the last 3 Olympics we have been the best performing medal nation per capita, I think

    Copy the best, and then exceed them. That's it. And it is basically what every great performer/artist does.

    It appears we might now be doing it, finally, in soccer. Yay
    Unfortunately this Olympics, particularly athletics Team GB is weakest its been for a number of games.
    Does Richardson (frankly ludicrous) exclusion help Asher Smith.
    Do we have any male hopefuls at all ?
    Adam Gemili is always there or there abouts in the 200m for 3-4-5th.

    On the women's side a half fit Katarina Johnson-Thompson I think is best hope. Laura Muir perhaps.

    Not much more than that really.

    There are quite a few events where Team GB doesn't even have a qualified athlete.
    I think the swimming is a far better prospect for GB than athletics this time
    If they don’t swim well, we’re sunk, and there will be a lot of rowing about it.

    Have a good morning.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    Alastair Campbell looks like he's swallowed a wasp.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I agree with Sandy and others: the period when we played Ole football was possibly the most impressive bit of all

    It felt like watching a supremely confident German or Italian side in their pomp, and that is high praise

    England now have possibly the best collection of young talent in Europe. Mount, Foden, Sancho, Bellingham, Saka, Hudson-Odoi, Greenwood, Rashford....I could go on....we really aren't the sick man of Europe kick it and rush, if you spill my pint I will bite your legs...we have seriousky world class technical players.
    Yes. The two most talented squads in Europe (the world?) are England and France

    When Foden came on - my God. He's brilliant
    I don't quite understand how this happened.
    England had the golden generation, who never really achieved anything, and then when they retired about 2010 the cupboard seemed almost laughably bare.
    Prospects for England ever being any good again seemed remote. Our kids were no longer interested in football, we were told - didn't play it in the streets any more, all the playing fields being built over.
    They even lost to Iceland in 2016.
    And now look - the most talented young squad in Europe.

    Presumably this hasn't happened by accident. Presumably a lot of work has gone into youth development. The results are very impressive.

    Highly professional academy system and influx of foreign managers with their weird continental ways of working on players technical abilites and also much more advanced tactical systems.
    Yes, I remember when the first reports came in: how the English FA had sat down and said, OK, what are Spain and Italy and France and Germany doing, why is it better than our system, and how do we copy them?

    It seemed simple, and promising. It is exactly what we did in the Olympics. We sat down and said Who do we copy, and the answer was AUSTRALIA and so we copied them, and in the last 3 Olympics we have been the best performing medal nation per capita, I think

    Copy the best, and then exceed them. That's it. And it is basically what every great performer/artist does.

    It appears we might now be doing it, finally, in soccer. Yay
    Unfortunately this Olympics, particularly athletics Team GB is weakest its been for a number of games.
    Does Richardson (frankly ludicrous) exclusion help Asher Smith.
    Do we have any male hopefuls at all ?
    Adam Gemili is always there or there abouts in the 200m for 3-4-5th.

    On the women's side a half fit Katarina Johnson-Thompson I think is best hope. Laura Muir perhaps.

    Not much more than that really.

    There are quite a few events where Team GB doesn't even have a qualified athlete.
    I think the swimming is a far better prospect for GB than athletics this time
    Watching swimming is pretty boring
    As a former freestyle and butterfly specialist, it pains me to say this, but you’re bang on! Swimming is tedious in extremis to watch… but fantastic fun to do.

    I actually think this about most sports: they are great fun to participate in, especially if they involve a lot of skill (like butterfly). But watching the bloody thing is like watching paint dry. For me, the only exceptions are road cycling (especially the one-day classics) and watching my own children participate.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    tlg86 said:

    Alastair Campbell looks like he's swallowed a wasp.

    Alastair Campbell, more than most, fully comprehends the appalling implications of 1966 MkII for his Unionist cause.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,270
    La Gazzetta dello Sport: England will challenge Italy in the final of the European Championships. The Southgate team sweated a lot to confirm the prediction that they were favorites against Denmark, beaten 2-1.

    Denmark found the goal at the half hour with a free-kick from Dorian Damsgaard, a talent forced to play too many benches last season. Here, against a team that could play the game they wanted, England showed maturity: without losing their minds, they first devoured a goal from two steps with Sterling (but what a good Schmeichel Jr.), then took advantage of a detour. of Kjaer in his own goal. The Milan defender sacrificed himself to avoid Sterling's tap-in. The English then continuously attacked a team with excellent defenders who were well protected by what was very often a 5-4-1.

    England confirmed a great basic solidity: the first goal conceded of the tournament came from a set piece, then the uncertain Pickford didn't have to get his gloves dirty anymore. The British are nowhere near as good as Spain's dribble, also because Rice and Phillips in front of the defense are a formidable but not very creative dam. But when they manage to bring the ball forward, especially with the one-on-one of the offensive winger and in the overlaps, they hurt. And they have a growing Kane, which the gods of football lent a hand after he kicked Schmeichel the penalty of victory. Yes, the rigor. A very little English penalty: Sterling falls after a light contact with Maehle, the referee blows his whistle and the Var confirms. Doubts remain.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    International Independent SAGE weighing in now....

    Writing in the Lancet, more than 100 global experts warn that removing restrictions on 19 July will cause millions of infections and risk creating a generation with chronic health problems and disability from long Covid, the impact of which may be felt for decades.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    I have no issue with putting that view in principle, so long as theres no deliberate attempt to mislead (as Indy Sage do via their name).
    Although the guardian uses the old trick

    “Lots of cases; big percentage rise in hospitalisations”
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Losing in the final is going to be so much worse ffs

    I find myself in a familiar position: win-win.

  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    I've watched again a few times and I actually now think it was, not because of the legs but because of the second upper body check. Sterling was through.
    The Danish guy swing his hips into Sterling just as he fell. Not sure whether that counts but it looked unfair play to me
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    I've watched again a few times and I actually now think it was, not because of the legs but because of the second upper body check. Sterling was through.
    The Danish guy swing his hips into Sterling just as he fell. Not sure whether that counts but it looked unfair play to me
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,056
    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    The Scottish press is largely Unionist. If you’re a Unionist you should be applauding their muting of the 3 Lions volume.

    Thankfully the BBC has no such capability.



  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,892
    edited July 2021
    Charles said:

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    I've watched again a few times and I actually now think it was, not because of the legs but because of the second upper body check. Sterling was through.
    The Danish guy swing his hips into Sterling just as he fell. Not sure whether that counts but it looked unfair play to me
    There was definitely contact from both defenders; sometimes these are given, and other times not. The VAR guy wasn’t going to over-rule the ref though, and ITV’s ref pundit said that he would have given it.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,250

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,112
    rcs1000 said:

    International Independent SAGE weighing in now....

    Writing in the Lancet, more than 100 global experts warn that removing restrictions on 19 July will cause millions of infections and risk creating a generation with chronic health problems and disability from long Covid, the impact of which may be felt for decades.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    This is so disingenuous. If it were urgent to suppress this wave then we would need new tighter restrictions rather than a delay in reopening.
    Not only that, but if we are not going to vaccinate children, then they are all going to end up catching Delta - the only question is when.

    If there was a genuine case that Delta would overwhelm the ability of the health services to cope, as was very much the case in the two previous peaks, then there would be a case for saying "we need to manage this, so that health care capacity is not overwhelmed". But that's not the case right now.

    So, "not opening up now" is just a euphemism for "let your kids catch it a little later in the year while we all endure additional restrictions because...".

    Surely, the iSAGE position must be that we allow no children for say 18 years. That would break the link with children being a transmission vector...
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,502
    Morning all.

    Have I missed something?

    Has some news been buried, or is this a football pun?

    I like: "The British are nowhere near as good as Spain's dribble."
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,502
    Nigelb said:
    Are those not basically the same as last year when job applications to the NHS were very significantly up when various media-shouters were talking about the NHS having an undermined future?
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,930
    It looked like a very soft penalty to me. Justice was done when Kane missed it.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,977
    edited July 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    Keeping the semi finals in Wembley feels like a Boris decision.
    And the final; especially when no-one from the other country can come to support their team.

    The cries of Danmark, Danmark were often barely audible.

    And, just possibly it seems that the weather is improving.
  • Options
    GnudGnud Posts: 298
    For comparison with last night's foul on Raheem Sterling: the Muhammad Ali punch that knocked out Sonny Liston in 1965, "too fast for any camera to catch".
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,599
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    I've watched again a few times and I actually now think it was, not because of the legs but because of the second upper body check. Sterling was through.
    I agree… there seems to be a tendency to ignore anything that happens above the waist.
    C'mon! It's not basketball...

    We would have been very annoyed if that penalty was against us.

    Despite Grealish and Sterling constantly tripping over blades of grass, there is this myth that it is filthy foreigners who dive.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,112
    Alistair said:
    OK, we'll have all our stuff back from Lindisfarne then, you thieving Viking bastards....
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,930
    IanB2 said:

    La Gazzetta dello Sport: England will challenge Italy in the final of the European Championships. The Southgate team sweated a lot to confirm the prediction that they were favorites against Denmark, beaten 2-1.

    Denmark found the goal at the half hour with a free-kick from Dorian Damsgaard, a talent forced to play too many benches last season. Here, against a team that could play the game they wanted, England showed maturity: without losing their minds, they first devoured a goal from two steps with Sterling (but what a good Schmeichel Jr.), then took advantage of a detour. of Kjaer in his own goal. The Milan defender sacrificed himself to avoid Sterling's tap-in. The English then continuously attacked a team with excellent defenders who were well protected by what was very often a 5-4-1.

    England confirmed a great basic solidity: the first goal conceded of the tournament came from a set piece, then the uncertain Pickford didn't have to get his gloves dirty anymore. The British are nowhere near as good as Spain's dribble, also because Rice and Phillips in front of the defense are a formidable but not very creative dam. But when they manage to bring the ball forward, especially with the one-on-one of the offensive winger and in the overlaps, they hurt. And they have a growing Kane, which the gods of football lent a hand after he kicked Schmeichel the penalty of victory. Yes, the rigor. A very little English penalty: Sterling falls after a light contact with Maehle, the referee blows his whistle and the Var confirms. Doubts remain.

    Italians complaining about dodgy penalties given after light contact is magnificent!

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,112
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    I've watched again a few times and I actually now think it was, not because of the legs but because of the second upper body check. Sterling was through.
    I agree… there seems to be a tendency to ignore anything that happens above the waist.
    C'mon! It's not basketball...

    We would have been very annoyed if that penalty was against us.

    Despite Grealish and Sterling constantly tripping over blades of grass, there is this myth that it is filthy foreigners who dive.
    Let's wait until we have played the Italians before visiting that particular theme, eh....?
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,930
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    I've watched again a few times and I actually now think it was, not because of the legs but because of the second upper body check. Sterling was through.
    I agree… there seems to be a tendency to ignore anything that happens above the waist.
    C'mon! It's not basketball...

    We would have been very annoyed if that penalty was against us.

    Despite Grealish and Sterling constantly tripping over blades of grass, there is this myth that it is filthy foreigners who dive.

    We'd have been pig sick if that penalty had been given against us. Just as we have been many times when it has happened. Our players fall and dive and foul and do everything else that all other players from wherever they are do. And now we face the absolute masters of the dark arts. Another learning experience awaits!

  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,206

    A good day to bury news.

    ‘Why is the government planning to scrap English Votes for English Laws?’

    Johnson’s neo-unionism reflects a British imaginary that sees devolved government and calls to provide some form of English-level recognition as sources of fragmentation, and resiles from the idea that the UK is a voluntary union of self-determining peoples. In taking this line his administration has triggered an increasingly open conflict with the pro-devolution unionist position, which was, until recently, the prevalent view in both Whitehall and Westminster.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/devolution/2021/07/why-government-planning-scrap-english-votes-english-laws

    One can, of course, advance a perfectly legitimate argument that devolution has been catastrophic for the Union, but a response that consists, essentially, of leaving it untouched where it already exists whilst failing to implement equivalence where it does not is the worst of all worlds. The only stable configurations for the UK are a federation or a unitary state, not the dog's breakfast that the idiot Blair bequeathed us.

    Of course, Boris Johnson is a lucky general. If the British state does finally founder, it'll almost certainly be on someone else's watch.
    If they wanted a unitary state they should have done it shortly after 1707. Yes, they successfully tricked the Scots nobility with English gold and juicy terms in the Treaty of Union, but they should have reneged on the lot in the first 10 years and effectively have imposed a unitary dictatorship on the whole island. By now GB would be as uniform as, say, Italy, Germany or France.

    The key error was allowing the College of Justice to continue to exist. And the Kirk.

    But far too late now.

    (I laugh when folk blame Blair. They obviously know zilch about the mood at the time. Blair was painted into a corner, and boy did he know it.)

    (As for “federation”: that’s the biggest yawn fest of Scottish politics. Gordon Brown’s neverending whine.)
    Federalism could still work. The elephant in the room with the current settlement is the lack of an English parliament. As with God Save the Queen the view is that the national parliament is also the English parliament (because the nation is England anyway).

    Create 4 fully functional parliaments with maximum possible devolution, widen out the role of Westminster so that it more for national defence and strategic planning, and the UK might hold together.

    Sadly there is little chance of it. The UK in its current form is unsustainable. NI has already been cast off to the status of a semi-detached colony. Scotland is being told that democracy is dead in Scotland because the views of England overrule it. Wales is enjoying its growing powers and wanting to do things differently. England either doesn't care much or just wants the moaning to stop.

    We're going to break apart regardless of how nostalgically sad that makes people feel. Once Brexit plays out for a few more years and we can see if England will come to its senses and actually want free trade partners then we can shape the form of the divorce.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    I've watched again a few times and I actually now think it was, not because of the legs but because of the second upper body check. Sterling was through.
    I agree… there seems to be a tendency to ignore anything that happens above the waist.
    C'mon! It's not basketball...

    We would have been very annoyed if that penalty was against us.

    Despite Grealish and Sterling constantly tripping over blades of grass, there is this myth that it is filthy foreigners who dive.

    We'd have been pig sick if that penalty had been given against us. Just as we have been many times when it has happened. Our players fall and dive and foul and do everything else that all other players from wherever they are do. And now we face the absolute masters of the dark arts. Another learning experience awaits!

    Interesting article on MEN saying Danish free kick shouldn’t have been given because Danes were too close to the wall.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    Starmer on ITV. "The England team show what modern Britain is all about."
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,206
    Now that the 100k new cases a day figure has emerged, are we expecting any polling on how the people of England feel about that? I am discounting the strident UNLOCK NOW IT IS RISK FREE voices on here as I suspect you aren't representative.

    Ordinarily, football or not, the superspreader events in pubs across the country for the fitba would have been something people would avoid like the plague. Perhaps Monday's pre-announcement that they will make a decision next Monday as to whether to allow the following Monday what is already happening was there specifically to give people permission to bin the restrictions now.

    As the plan is let her rip, may as well get on with it.
  • Options
    GnudGnud Posts: 298

    A good day to bury news.

    ‘Why is the government planning to scrap English Votes for English Laws?’

    Johnson’s neo-unionism reflects a British imaginary that sees devolved government and calls to provide some form of English-level recognition as sources of fragmentation, and resiles from the idea that the UK is a voluntary union of self-determining peoples. In taking this line his administration has triggered an increasingly open conflict with the pro-devolution unionist position, which was, until recently, the prevalent view in both Whitehall and Westminster.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/devolution/2021/07/why-government-planning-scrap-english-votes-english-laws

    One can, of course, advance a perfectly legitimate argument that devolution has been catastrophic for the Union, but a response that consists, essentially, of leaving it untouched where it already exists whilst failing to implement equivalence where it does not is the worst of all worlds. The only stable configurations for the UK are a federation or a unitary state, not the dog's breakfast that the idiot Blair bequeathed us.

    Of course, Boris Johnson is a lucky general. If the British state does finally founder, it'll almost certainly be on someone else's watch.
    If they wanted a unitary state they should have done it shortly after 1707. Yes, they successfully tricked the Scots nobility with English gold and juicy terms in the Treaty of Union, but they should have reneged on the lot in the first 10 years and effectively have imposed a unitary dictatorship on the whole island. By now GB would be as uniform as, say, Italy, Germany or France.

    The key error was allowing the College of Justice to continue to exist. And the Kirk.

    But far too late now.

    (I laugh when folk blame Blair. They obviously know zilch about the mood at the time. Blair was painted into a corner, and boy did he know it.)

    (As for “federation”: that’s the biggest yawn fest of Scottish politics. Gordon Brown’s neverending whine.)
    Agreed about the Scottish legal system.

    But turnout in the 1997 devolution referendum was 60%. In the British GE four months before, Scottish turnout was 71%. There wasn't much of a mood at the time.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,056
    More ‘gestures’.
    Never far away from self pity with these lads.

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1413017049744433154?s=21
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,988
    tlg86 said:

    Starmer on ITV. "The England team show what modern Britain is all about."

    What, utterly straight and male?

    Not very inclusive there, SKS ...

    (My one and only objection to the England team taking the knee is that it seems a slightly 'easy' cause. Given the number of footballers, it is slightly odd that there are no openly gay footballers in the male game. Well, it's not odd at all. https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/no-gay-footballers-in-the-premier-league )
  • Options
    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    edited July 2021
    “any strategy that tolerates high levels of infection is "illogical".”

    “exponential growth of COVID-19 will likely leave hundreds of thousands with long-term illness and disability".

    "This strategy risks creating a generation left with chronic health problems and disability, the personal and economic impacts of which might be felt for decades to come."

    “the strategy "provides fertile ground for the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants".

    “"The government has made a deliberate choice to expose children to mass infection, rather than protect them in schools or vaccinate them. This is unethical and unacceptable. Our young have already suffered so much in the past year, and are now being condemned to suffer the consequences of this dangerous experiment."

    Zerocovid idiots, or asking for more time for the vaccination route?

    And, they would say that wouldn’t they, but they are one lobby who want it their way, don’t have to take the bigger picture - business, the economy, and the mountain of lockdown created deaths, disability and mental illness?

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-ending-restrictions-on-19-july-is-a-dangerous-and-unethical-experiment-scientists-warn-12351079
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    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347
    tlg86 said:

    Starmer on ITV. "The England team show what modern Britain is all about."

    Incredibly well paid young men running around?
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,176
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:
    Are those not basically the same as last year when job applications to the NHS were very significantly up when various media-shouters were talking about the NHS having an undermined future?
    Anecdata from me - our Pharmacy course looks like being biggest intake in about 5 years. Part is the demographics (we are coming out of the slump in teenagers) but I suspect covid has led to a resurgence of interest in healthcare as an option,
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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,250
    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    If you want to avoid football go to the Scottish press. The one part of European media not talking about. Bit sad really. Wish nationalism didn’t have to get in the way.

    You can tell from my name i am no nationalist but dont really see why football (perhaps the most mainstream sport that encourages bad habits like cheating ,spitting etc) needs to be plastered all over the media especially in countries that have no team left
    I'd guess that apart from in England and Denmark it's just a medium-importance sports story in most of Europe. Certainly not headline news here in Germany.
    Top story on Bild. Third story on FAZ.
    Third story on the Scotsman website so your original complaint doesn't make much sense.

    The main headline in today's Bild is "Polizei sollte Sushi für Jogis Stars holen" as you can see for yourself:

    https://epaper.bild.de/

    On the TV news it's the first item of sports news, after all the proper news, just before the weather
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,056
    The Nevster putting the richly deserved boot in..

    https://twitter.com/alanjstedman/status/1412891404787982336?s=21
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    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    I've watched again a few times and I actually now think it was, not because of the legs but because of the second upper body check. Sterling was through.
    I agree… there seems to be a tendency to ignore anything that happens above the waist.
    C'mon! It's not basketball...

    We would have been very annoyed if that penalty was against us.

    Despite Grealish and Sterling constantly tripping over blades of grass, there is this myth that it is filthy foreigners who dive.

    We'd have been pig sick if that penalty had been given against us. Just as we have been many times when it has happened. Our players fall and dive and foul and do everything else that all other players from wherever they are do. And now we face the absolute masters of the dark arts. Another learning experience awaits!

    Kane’s shout for penalty could easily have been given, and the Danish goal came from just as soft a call as our pen.

    And the Italian pen against us (1990) was softer still, that was down to home advantage, as was this one you are arguing about.

    Make the most of home advantage when you have it. We will never get a World Cup here again, with our willingness to roll out the Royal Family in support and remind FIFA delegates of the criminality of our Imperial past.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    tlg86 said:

    Starmer on ITV. "The England team show what modern Britain is all about."

    Incredibly well paid young men running around?
    Cheating immigrants.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    rcs1000 said:

    International Independent SAGE weighing in now....

    Writing in the Lancet, more than 100 global experts warn that removing restrictions on 19 July will cause millions of infections and risk creating a generation with chronic health problems and disability from long Covid, the impact of which may be felt for decades.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    This is so disingenuous. If it were urgent to suppress this wave then we would need new tighter restrictions rather than a delay in reopening.
    Not only that, but if we are not going to vaccinate children, then they are all going to end up catching Delta - the only question is when.

    If there was a genuine case that Delta would overwhelm the ability of the health services to cope, as was very much the case in the two previous peaks, then there would be a case for saying "we need to manage this, so that health care capacity is not overwhelmed". But that's not the case right now.

    So, "not opening up now" is just a euphemism for "let your kids catch it a little later in the year while we all endure additional restrictions because...".

    Seems to me that the real problems in hospitals are being caused by the policies on mandatory isolation for close contacts, not levels of Covid. But when the approach is challenged, particularly for double vaxxed staff, we get the consistently one sided response that it’s “even more important in hospitals because of all the vulnerable people”.

    But where’s the balance? Both that mandatory isolation is not likely to keep Covid out anyway when there’s so many other way for it to get in (and systems of daily testing arguable make far more sense) but also there’s huge secondary harm caused by hospitals not being able to function at full capacity.

    As with everything the focus needs to be far more on the balance of risks, and not only the Covid risks (which as has been pointed out are rapidly being dwarfed by the lockdown chickens coming home to roost).
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,930

    More ‘gestures’.
    Never far away from self pity with these lads.

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1413017049744433154?s=21

    The relentless whinge of the right-wing Brexit loon is the muzak of our time.

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,930
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    I've watched again a few times and I actually now think it was, not because of the legs but because of the second upper body check. Sterling was through.
    I agree… there seems to be a tendency to ignore anything that happens above the waist.
    C'mon! It's not basketball...

    We would have been very annoyed if that penalty was against us.

    Despite Grealish and Sterling constantly tripping over blades of grass, there is this myth that it is filthy foreigners who dive.

    We'd have been pig sick if that penalty had been given against us. Just as we have been many times when it has happened. Our players fall and dive and foul and do everything else that all other players from wherever they are do. And now we face the absolute masters of the dark arts. Another learning experience awaits!

    Interesting article on MEN saying Danish free kick shouldn’t have been given because Danes were too close to the wall.

    I do think these things even themselves out over time - except with Manchester United.

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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,502

    International Independent SAGE weighing in now....

    Writing in the Lancet, more than 100 global experts warn that removing restrictions on 19 July will cause millions of infections and risk creating a generation with chronic health problems and disability from long Covid, the impact of which may be felt for decades.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/global-experts-urge-boris-johnson-delay-covid-reopening

    Have we seen the actual letter?
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    StereodogStereodog Posts: 400
    As a non football fan I can't understand the amount of license given to bad behaviour because of it. The photos in the Guardian of England fans 'celebrating' would have been called a breakdown of law and order in any other context. If it were an anti vax protest or a vigil there'd have been mass arrests under COVID laws.

    After the quarter finals a colleague came in to a meeting with a massive hangover and the entire senior leadership team found it amusing. I made a mental note to see if I would get the same indulgence after my next trip to watch a test match.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,373
    Andy_JS said:

    NEW: South Korea reports 1,275 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record

    What happened to their world-beating track and trace system?
    Sadly, I think it is Delta.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    edited July 2021

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.

    "Success is nothing to do with him", au contraire.

    Who was wearing the number 10 shirt today? What number was on the shirt worn by the player that won Englan'd's penalty? I rest my circumstantial, but nonetheless compelling case.
    It is the PM wot won it. Even with a tie under his shirt. QED.
    And he didn't dive. And immediately sacked Hancock. Etc., etc.
    Not convince the penalty was a penalty. The slo mo makes me think not....
    I've watched again a few times and I actually now think it was, not because of the legs but because of the second upper body check. Sterling was through.
    I agree… there seems to be a tendency to ignore anything that happens above the waist.
    C'mon! It's not basketball...

    We would have been very annoyed if that penalty was against us.

    Despite Grealish and Sterling constantly tripping over blades of grass, there is this myth that it is filthy foreigners who dive.

    We'd have been pig sick if that penalty had been given against us. Just as we have been many times when it has happened. Our players fall and dive and foul and do everything else that all other players from wherever they are do. And now we face the absolute masters of the dark arts. Another learning experience awaits!

    Interesting article on MEN saying Danish free kick shouldn’t have been given because Danes were too close to the wall.

    I do think these things even themselves out over time - except with Manchester United.

    Even the first Danish FK that led to the second was soft. Over the course of the match the ref was pretty fair. Kane's penalty shout was stronger than Sterling's though. Italy will need to be very disciplined not to make any contact with either in the box because both if them will try and win the pen if there is even the slightest amount.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I miss the days when children 100% guaranteed fact cannot catch or pass on Covid.

    Good times.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,502

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:
    Are those not basically the same as last year when job applications to the NHS were very significantly up when various media-shouters were talking about the NHS having an undermined future?
    Anecdata from me - our Pharmacy course looks like being biggest intake in about 5 years. Part is the demographics (we are coming out of the slump in teenagers) but I suspect covid has led to a resurgence of interest in healthcare as an option,
    It would be interesting to spot the mix of motivations between a desire to work in health and for future security - both are logical in uncertain times.
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,526

    A good day to bury news.

    ‘Why is the government planning to scrap English Votes for English Laws?’

    Johnson’s neo-unionism reflects a British imaginary that sees devolved government and calls to provide some form of English-level recognition as sources of fragmentation, and resiles from the idea that the UK is a voluntary union of self-determining peoples. In taking this line his administration has triggered an increasingly open conflict with the pro-devolution unionist position, which was, until recently, the prevalent view in both Whitehall and Westminster.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/devolution/2021/07/why-government-planning-scrap-english-votes-english-laws

    One can, of course, advance a perfectly legitimate argument that devolution has been catastrophic for the Union, but a response that consists, essentially, of leaving it untouched where it already exists whilst failing to implement equivalence where it does not is the worst of all worlds. The only stable configurations for the UK are a federation or a unitary state, not the dog's breakfast that the idiot Blair bequeathed us.

    Of course, Boris Johnson is a lucky general. If the British state does finally founder, it'll almost certainly be on someone else's watch.
    If they wanted a unitary state they should have done it shortly after 1707. Yes, they successfully tricked the Scots nobility with English gold and juicy terms in the Treaty of Union, but they should have reneged on the lot in the first 10 years and effectively have imposed a unitary dictatorship on the whole island. By now GB would be as uniform as, say, Italy, Germany or France.

    The key error was allowing the College of Justice to continue to exist. And the Kirk.

    But far too late now.

    (I laugh when folk blame Blair. They obviously know zilch about the mood at the time. Blair was painted into a corner, and boy did he know it.)

    (As for “federation”: that’s the biggest yawn fest of Scottish politics. Gordon Brown’s neverending whine.)
    The idea that it would have been possible to marginalise presbyterianism in Scotland, and impose Anglicanism, in the early 1700s pays no regard to the realities of what had been happening since 1688. Apart from Roman Catholicism the post 1688 regime allowed religious toleration in England.



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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,056
    Rishi says they are ‘literally’ throwing the kitchen sink at helping people get back into work. Don’t think that’s going to help tbh.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    The govt should be straight with the British public. They clearly have modelling on what 100k cases/whatever the expectation is -> means in terms of hospitalizations & deaths. They should release it. The public has a right to know.
This discussion has been closed.