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Survation has the party that dropped 20% in C&A with a 6% lead in Batley & Spen – politicalbetting.c

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  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    Taz said:
    I first read that as Ding Junhui has defected to the US!
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,058
    If Labour keeps losing seats in the formerly red wall, where does it look to next to win back seats?

    There's limited further scope in London and Wales. Southern Tory non-urban seats are unlikely to switch to Labour (but could form a new base for the Lib Dems). Scotland will remain tactical on unionist issues that mean it won't return to Labour like it used to.

    I'm struggling to see where they make a meaningful number of gains if not by recovering in the north.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Silverstone cleared for 140,000 crowd for the Grand Prix on 18th July.

    Wimbledon and the Open Golf also allowed a full house on the same weekend.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2021/06/18/britishgrandprix-cleared-capacity-crowd-added-pilot-event-list/

    And yet the government says amateur choirs can only sing in groups of 6?

    Admittedly, having drawn up the regulations wrongly they have designated ‘amateur choirs’ as a type of organisation that doesn’t exist, but it’s still madness.
    You can't dance a weddings. We're going to one in August and really hoping that these idiotic restrictions are over by then.
    Our sons wedding in six weeks is a nightmare of regulations including the sides of the marquee to be open 51% and no dancing and table service only

    The amount of 'covid' regulations required by Drakeford at weddings is absurd, not least he will fine our son and daughter in law to be £10,000 for any breach

    Our next doors neighbour's daughter gets married on Anglesey in two weeks and they have the same strict rules and punitive fines

    These politicians are power crazy, and I notice two local firms are taking Drakeford to court over the fact the same businesses in England are open
    No dancing at weddings? Oliver Cromwell would have been proud of Johnson and Hancock.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited June 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Taz said:
    I first read that as Ding Junhui has defected to the US!
    Joining that long list of distinguished American snooker players!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470

    ” Tony Blair is mulling a return to Westminster, and he is said to believe he would do a better job as PM now than when he first occupied the post”

    https://twitter.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1406179274441334787

    Don't subscribe to the Thunderer so can't read the article. Of which party is he considering a return with? He would struggle to get selected with Labour and certainly wouldn't be elected its leader. I assume he isn't going to join the LibDems. He isn't a Tory.

    So the only thing that makes sense is him forming a new centre party. He would need to win the support of the WWC who backed him previously AND the support of remainer shire Tories fed up with Johnsonism.

    An utterly impossible task. Surely. For anyone who isn't Blair...
    Blair is Labour through and through. If he didn't renege under Corbyn, which he didn't, he's hardly going to jump ship under Starmer. A not-happening event.
    Sure! And yet his Labour and today's Labour are not remotely the same. If he wants a front line role in politics it won't be through Labour as they won't support him.

    Blair has an Ego denser than a black hole. Ego drives people to do all kinds of crazy things.
    There are definitely CLPs who would put Blair up. It really would get left-wingers refusing to vote, though, and polling suggests that he's not really popular with any sector of the electorate..

    My preferred SKS strategy is a Grand Compromise. Put Blair in the Lords. Welcome Alastair Campbell back. Restore the whip to Corbyn. Get Ed Balls a seat. Adopt one imaginative policy - a proper social care package funded by higher tax on people earning over £75K, say. Annoy everyone a bit, but give everyone something to console themselves with. Pussy-footing doesn't work, either for left-winger or the electorate as a whole.
    With you on the one imaginative policy thing. He needs a big idea. One thing that can be sold over and over on the doorstep.
    Build loads of council houses. Make them to a decent design with rooms bigger than the shite that are being slung up now by the developers. This will give ordinary people a chance to live somewhere decent and force the developers to build decent private housing stock. Give councils the ability to raise the money for them with the rents ringfenced to pay it back.
    Oh, and stfu about Palestine. It really annoys people who wonder why you care more about them than the people you want to vote for you.
    That sounds like a very urban, in particular London-centric, policy.

    Now perhaps in areas with high levels of council house living and high levels of HMO private rented squalor it might be a vote winner.

    But in the rest of the country a council house isn't aspirational - rather it is associated with 'slums in the sky' or edge of conurbation sink estates or in the worst cases 'slums in the sky' in edge of conurbation sink estates.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Silverstone cleared for 140,000 crowd for the Grand Prix on 18th July.

    Wimbledon and the Open Golf also allowed a full house on the same weekend.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2021/06/18/britishgrandprix-cleared-capacity-crowd-added-pilot-event-list/

    And yet the government says amateur choirs can only sing in groups of 6?

    Admittedly, having drawn up the regulations wrongly they have designated ‘amateur choirs’ as a type of organisation that doesn’t exist, but it’s still madness.
    You can't dance a weddings. We're going to one in August and really hoping that these idiotic restrictions are over by then.
    Our sons wedding in six weeks is a nightmare of regulations including the sides of the marquee to be open 51% and no dancing and table service only

    The amount of 'covid' regulations required by Drakeford at weddings is absurd, not least he will fine our son and daughter in law to be £10,000 for any breach

    Our next doors neighbour's daughter gets married on Anglesey in two weeks and they have the same strict rules and punitive fines

    These politicians are power crazy, and I notice two local firms are taking Drakeford to court over the fact the same businesses in England are open
    No dancing at weddings? Oliver Cromwell would have been proud of Johnson and Hancock.
    And this is in Wales
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573

    ” Tony Blair is mulling a return to Westminster, and he is said to believe he would do a better job as PM now than when he first occupied the post”

    https://twitter.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1406179274441334787

    Don't subscribe to the Thunderer so can't read the article. Of which party is he considering a return with? He would struggle to get selected with Labour and certainly wouldn't be elected its leader. I assume he isn't going to join the LibDems. He isn't a Tory.

    So the only thing that makes sense is him forming a new centre party. He would need to win the support of the WWC who backed him previously AND the support of remainer shire Tories fed up with Johnsonism.

    An utterly impossible task. Surely. For anyone who isn't Blair...
    Blair is Labour through and through. If he didn't renege under Corbyn, which he didn't, he's hardly going to jump ship under Starmer. A not-happening event.
    Sure! And yet his Labour and today's Labour are not remotely the same. If he wants a front line role in politics it won't be through Labour as they won't support him.

    Blair has an Ego denser than a black hole. Ego drives people to do all kinds of crazy things.
    There are definitely CLPs who would put Blair up. It really would get left-wingers refusing to vote, though, and polling suggests that he's not really popular with any sector of the electorate..

    My preferred SKS strategy is a Grand Compromise. Put Blair in the Lords. Welcome Alastair Campbell back. Restore the whip to Corbyn. Get Ed Balls a seat. Adopt one imaginative policy - a proper social care package funded by higher tax on people earning over £75K, say. Annoy everyone a bit, but give everyone something to console themselves with. Pussy-footing doesn't work, either for left-winger or the electorate as a whole.
    With you on the one imaginative policy thing. He needs a big idea. One thing that can be sold over and over on the doorstep.
    Build loads of council houses. Make them to a decent design with rooms bigger than the shite that are being slung up now by the developers. This will give ordinary people a chance to live somewhere decent and force the developers to build decent private housing stock. Give councils the ability to raise the money for them with the rents ringfenced to pay it back.
    Oh, and stfu about Palestine. It really annoys people who wonder why you care more about them than the people you want to vote for you.
    That sounds like a very urban, in particular London-centric, policy.

    Now perhaps in areas with high levels of council house living and high levels of HMO private rented squalor it might be a vote winner.

    But in the rest of the country a council house isn't aspirational - rather it is associated with 'slums in the sky' or edge of conurbation sink estates or in the worst cases 'slums in the sky' in edge of conurbation sink estates.
    Quite.

    What people want is 3 or 4 bed homes with gardens. Build more of them and you create extra capacity in the whole housing ladder rather than just the first step.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited June 2021

    ” Tony Blair is mulling a return to Westminster, and he is said to believe he would do a better job as PM now than when he first occupied the post”

    https://twitter.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1406179274441334787

    Don't subscribe to the Thunderer so can't read the article. Of which party is he considering a return with? He would struggle to get selected with Labour and certainly wouldn't be elected its leader. I assume he isn't going to join the LibDems. He isn't a Tory.

    So the only thing that makes sense is him forming a new centre party. He would need to win the support of the WWC who backed him previously AND the support of remainer shire Tories fed up with Johnsonism.

    An utterly impossible task. Surely. For anyone who isn't Blair...
    Blair is Labour through and through. If he didn't renege under Corbyn, which he didn't, he's hardly going to jump ship under Starmer. A not-happening event.
    Sure! And yet his Labour and today's Labour are not remotely the same. If he wants a front line role in politics it won't be through Labour as they won't support him.

    Blair has an Ego denser than a black hole. Ego drives people to do all kinds of crazy things.
    There are definitely CLPs who would put Blair up. It really would get left-wingers refusing to vote, though, and polling suggests that he's not really popular with any sector of the electorate..

    My preferred SKS strategy is a Grand Compromise. Put Blair in the Lords. Welcome Alastair Campbell back. Restore the whip to Corbyn. Get Ed Balls a seat. Adopt one imaginative policy - a proper social care package funded by higher tax on people earning over £75K, say. Annoy everyone a bit, but give everyone something to console themselves with. Pussy-footing doesn't work, either for left-winger or the electorate as a whole.
    With you on the one imaginative policy thing. He needs a big idea. One thing that can be sold over and over on the doorstep.
    Build loads of council houses. Make them to a decent design with rooms bigger than the shite that are being slung up now by the developers. This will give ordinary people a chance to live somewhere decent and force the developers to build decent private housing stock. Give councils the ability to raise the money for them with the rents ringfenced to pay it back.
    Oh, and stfu about Palestine. It really annoys people who wonder why you care more about them than the people you want to vote for you.
    That sounds like a very urban, in particular London-centric, policy.

    Now perhaps in areas with high levels of council house living and high levels of HMO private rented squalor it might be a vote winner.

    But in the rest of the country a council house isn't aspirational - rather it is associated with 'slums in the sky' or edge of conurbation sink estates or in the worst cases 'slums in the sky' in edge of conurbation sink estates.
    A better policy would be releasing piles of state-owned land, for some sort of a rent-to-own scheme. Specify the design, and let builders compete for the construction.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Good afternoon, fellow humans.

    F1: don't often watch practice but saw some. Verstappen looking good.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573
    Taz said:
    Well if he isn't already out of China, Simpson just did his bit to get the bloke disappeared, whether the rumour is true or false. Incredibly irresponsible.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    Surge testing in Cumbria @Cyclefree
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Good afternoon, fellow humans.

    F1: don't often watch practice but saw some. Verstappen looking good.

    That was one hell of a lap from the Dutchman, 0.7” ahead of everyone. I had thought of backing Bottas for pole, but now not so sure.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573

    Good afternoon, fellow humans.

    F1: don't often watch practice but saw some. Verstappen looking good.

    Red Bull were on way higher engine mode, much quicker on every speed trap (same as Bottas medium run yesterday) but it was an impressive final sector regardless. Prior to that final run Mercs were comfortably ahead, engine adjusted.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    maaarsh said:

    Good afternoon, fellow humans.

    F1: don't often watch practice but saw some. Verstappen looking good.

    Red Bull were on way higher engine mode, much quicker on every speed trap (same as Bottas medium run yesterday) but it was an impressive final sector regardless. Prior to that final run Mercs were comfortably ahead, engine adjusted.
    Yes, I did think they might just be testing the qualy mode with the new engine. They had some issues last season, when the engine stuttered when turned all the way up, so maybe wanted to make sure that wouldn’t happen again.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Aaron Bastani
    @AaronBastani
    ·
    43m
    It’s not just Palestine. Galloway focusing on closure of local police station and Huddersfield getting all the money in Kirklees.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Silverstone cleared for 140,000 crowd for the Grand Prix on 18th July.

    Wimbledon and the Open Golf also allowed a full house on the same weekend.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2021/06/18/britishgrandprix-cleared-capacity-crowd-added-pilot-event-list/

    And yet the government says amateur choirs can only sing in groups of 6?

    Admittedly, having drawn up the regulations wrongly they have designated ‘amateur choirs’ as a type of organisation that doesn’t exist, but it’s still madness.
    You can't dance a weddings. We're going to one in August and really hoping that these idiotic restrictions are over by then.
    Our sons wedding in six weeks is a nightmare of regulations including the sides of the marquee to be open 51% and no dancing and table service only

    The amount of 'covid' regulations required by Drakeford at weddings is absurd, not least he will fine our son and daughter in law to be £10,000 for any breach

    Our next doors neighbour's daughter gets married on Anglesey in two weeks and they have the same strict rules and punitive fines

    These politicians are power crazy, and I notice two local firms are taking Drakeford to court over the fact the same businesses in England are open
    No dancing at weddings? Oliver Cromwell would have been proud of Johnson and Hancock.
    Oliver Cromwell had dancing and music at his daughter’s wedding.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,165
    Well, well. Galloway to cost Labour the seat. Didn't expect that.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573
    edited June 2021
    Sandpit said:

    maaarsh said:

    Good afternoon, fellow humans.

    F1: don't often watch practice but saw some. Verstappen looking good.

    Red Bull were on way higher engine mode, much quicker on every speed trap (same as Bottas medium run yesterday) but it was an impressive final sector regardless. Prior to that final run Mercs were comfortably ahead, engine adjusted.
    Yes, I did think they might just be testing the qualy mode with the new engine. They had some issues last season, when the engine stuttered when turned all the way up, so maybe wanted to make sure that wouldn’t happen again.
    For most of practice both merc and red bull were at 275kph at the end of 2nd sector. For their final runs Max turned it up to 281 (Perez 285, but with a bit of a tow) whilst Mercs turned it down to 272.

    Merc seem to have a habit this season of not trying to use max tyre and max engine performance together in practice - they'll only turn the engine up once and it will always be on old tyres or a run they're not pushing the corners so much.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,662

    Surge testing in Cumbria @Cyclefree

    Oh dear that's where my staycation is going to.be.. or not....
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Specific seats being targeted by the LibDems:

    Wimbledon
    Carshalton and Wallington
    Winchester
    Esher and Walton
    Guildford
    Eastbourne
    Wokingham
    Surrey South West
    Cheltenham
    Lewes

    And if this meme really takes off, which I think it will, there are a raft of other seats that could be under threat.

    Where does this leave Labour? I don't know to be honest.

    It leaves Scottish Labour grinning like a Cheshire cat.

    This is fantastic news for progressive opponents of the Scottish Liberal Democrats. The more their English bosses chase votes in Surrey, Hampshire, Berkshire et al the easier it is to continue peeling away centre-left SLD voters.

    Without tactical voting the SLDs would be extinct.
    Given the LibDems are benefiting from unionist tactical voting, it's unclear that their specific policy platform has any impact on their Scottish electoral success (or otherwise).
    Tactical voting is, by its very nature, short-term. Eventually all declining parties, irrespective of tactical votes, fall back to their very core. The problem for the SLDs is that they have no core. They have no throbbing heart. They have no raison d’être.

    Unionist tactical votes are a false dawn for the SLDs, because one day those voters will all go “home”. And when that happens, the vacuum at the core will dissolve in a wee fart.
    I don't think that we can discount the effect of a Scottish national leader. For all her faults, Swinson was Scottish and represented a Scottish seat, albeit clearly a Scottish tradition that is anathema to you.

    All parties do better in Scotland when the national leader is Scottish. Brown held onto SLAB seats that would just be a dream now.

    The converse is that those 4 SLD seats do look vulnerable with Davey in charge.
    Hmm. The national party leader thing didn't work for Ms Swinson in her very own seat. (I often wondered if prospective fracking in the area was an issue.)

    Yes, the SLDs only have 4 MSPs, down one from last time, in Holyrood - but this is an only roughly proportional voting system which gives extra seats to minor parties ()as fiddled originally by SLD + Labour, as I have said ad nauseam here). That in a parliament with 7 Scottish Greens MSPs.

    I suspect Swinson was rather off-putting to potential tactical support from SCON voters.

    2019 SCON vote:
    Fife NE -11.1%
    Caithness -6.1%
    Ed W -4.9%
    Dunb E -0.5%
    She had already squeezed the SCon vote in 2017
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    edited June 2021
    Back on housing.

    Where I live (Hackney), the council are doing a good job of developing high quality, but denser (not smaller), council housing.

    There’s a lot of council house crap from the 60s through 90s that is low spec, badly maintained, low rise etc. Slowly - but slightly faster in Hackney’s case - they are being replaced.

    The solution to Britain’s housing issues lies IN PART in an ambitious council housing development programme, delivering say 100,000 new homes per annum.

    We have some of the best architects in the world.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573

    Back on housing.

    Where I live (Hackney), the council are doing a good job of developing high quality, but denser (not smaller), council housing.

    There’s a lot of council house crap from the 60s through 90s that is low spec, badly maintained, low rise etc. Slowly - but slightly faster in Hackney’s case - they are being replaced.

    The solution to Britain’s housing issues lies IN PART in an ambitious council housing development programme, delivering say 100,000 new homes per annum.

    We have some of the best architects in the world.

    If Labour get their way on work from home, you're busy trying to win the last war. No reason to try and squeeze so many people in to London anymore, and who wants to work from home in a small dense box.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,662

    ” Tony Blair is mulling a return to Westminster, and he is said to believe he would do a better job as PM now than when he first occupied the post”

    https://twitter.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1406179274441334787

    Don't subscribe to the Thunderer so can't read the article. Of which party is he considering a return with? He would struggle to get selected with Labour and certainly wouldn't be elected its leader. I assume he isn't going to join the LibDems. He isn't a Tory.

    So the only thing that makes sense is him forming a new centre party. He would need to win the support of the WWC who backed him previously AND the support of remainer shire Tories fed up with Johnsonism.

    An utterly impossible task. Surely. For anyone who isn't Blair...
    Blair is Labour through and through. If he didn't renege under Corbyn, which he didn't, he's hardly going to jump ship under Starmer. A not-happening event.
    Sure! And yet his Labour and today's Labour are not remotely the same. If he wants a front line role in politics it won't be through Labour as they won't support him.

    Blair has an Ego denser than a black hole. Ego drives people to do all kinds of crazy things.
    There are definitely CLPs who would put Blair up. It really would get left-wingers refusing to vote, though, and polling suggests that he's not really popular with any sector of the electorate..

    My preferred SKS strategy is a Grand Compromise. Put Blair in the Lords. Welcome Alastair Campbell back. Restore the whip to Corbyn. Get Ed Balls a seat. Adopt one imaginative policy - a proper social care package funded by higher tax on people earning over £75K, say. Annoy everyone a bit, but give everyone something to console themselves with. Pussy-footing doesn't work, either for left-winger or the electorate as a whole.
    Does Ed Balls want to return? My impression is that he's happier out of politics.
    Neo endogenous growth theory is so last century
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    alex_ said:


    Eleanor Langford
    @eleanormia
    Squared newExclusive polling for
    @politicshome
    found that 62% of UK adults would back delaying lockdown past 19 July if necessary

    Older womanOlder age groups were much more likely to back the delay, with 75% of 55-64s in favour compared to 54% of 18-24s

    With the 75% of 55-64s ignoring any restrictions they don't like.
    You say that a lot, but do you have any non-anecdotal evidence? My (anecdotal!) impression is that the 55+ group are zealously masking and social distancing.
    Possibly. But it's also that there aren't many activities engaged in on a widespread basis by the 55+ age group that are restricted under current rules.
    Going to the pub? I have certainly been to a couple that haven't been following the rules to the letter. As long as it's calm and fairly socially distanced I'm OK with it. I certainly wouldn't go to a pub showing a football match though, having heard reports from one of my locals
    Why not? Aren’t you double-jabbed?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    maaarsh said:

    Back on housing.

    Where I live (Hackney), the council are doing a good job of developing high quality, but denser (not smaller), council housing.

    There’s a lot of council house crap from the 60s through 90s that is low spec, badly maintained, low rise etc. Slowly - but slightly faster in Hackney’s case - they are being replaced.

    The solution to Britain’s housing issues lies IN PART in an ambitious council housing development programme, delivering say 100,000 new homes per annum.

    We have some of the best architects in the world.

    If Labour get their way on work from home, you're busy trying to win the last war. No reason to try and squeeze so many people in to London anymore, and who wants to work from home in a small dense box.
    London’s fortunes remain to be seen.
    Anyway, the point about council housing is still valid.

    The private market is not capable of delivering sufficient quantity to keep prices affordable.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Back on housing.

    Where I live (Hackney), the council are doing a good job of developing high quality, but denser (not smaller), council housing.

    There’s a lot of council house crap from the 60s through 90s that is low spec, badly maintained, low rise etc. Slowly - but slightly faster in Hackney’s case - they are being replaced.

    The solution to Britain’s housing issues lies IN PART in an ambitious council housing development programme, delivering say 100,000 new homes per annum.

    We have some of the best architects in the world.

    Councils tend to include necessary services in their developments. Something to which too many private developers only do in theory.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470
    Alistair said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Specific seats being targeted by the LibDems:

    Wimbledon
    Carshalton and Wallington
    Winchester
    Esher and Walton
    Guildford
    Eastbourne
    Wokingham
    Surrey South West
    Cheltenham
    Lewes

    And if this meme really takes off, which I think it will, there are a raft of other seats that could be under threat.

    Where does this leave Labour? I don't know to be honest.

    It leaves Scottish Labour grinning like a Cheshire cat.

    This is fantastic news for progressive opponents of the Scottish Liberal Democrats. The more their English bosses chase votes in Surrey, Hampshire, Berkshire et al the easier it is to continue peeling away centre-left SLD voters.

    Without tactical voting the SLDs would be extinct.
    Given the LibDems are benefiting from unionist tactical voting, it's unclear that their specific policy platform has any impact on their Scottish electoral success (or otherwise).
    Tactical voting is, by its very nature, short-term. Eventually all declining parties, irrespective of tactical votes, fall back to their very core. The problem for the SLDs is that they have no core. They have no throbbing heart. They have no raison d’être.

    Unionist tactical votes are a false dawn for the SLDs, because one day those voters will all go “home”. And when that happens, the vacuum at the core will dissolve in a wee fart.
    I don't think that we can discount the effect of a Scottish national leader. For all her faults, Swinson was Scottish and represented a Scottish seat, albeit clearly a Scottish tradition that is anathema to you.

    All parties do better in Scotland when the national leader is Scottish. Brown held onto SLAB seats that would just be a dream now.

    The converse is that those 4 SLD seats do look vulnerable with Davey in charge.
    Hmm. The national party leader thing didn't work for Ms Swinson in her very own seat. (I often wondered if prospective fracking in the area was an issue.)

    Yes, the SLDs only have 4 MSPs, down one from last time, in Holyrood - but this is an only roughly proportional voting system which gives extra seats to minor parties ()as fiddled originally by SLD + Labour, as I have said ad nauseam here). That in a parliament with 7 Scottish Greens MSPs.

    I suspect Swinson was rather off-putting to potential tactical support from SCON voters.

    2019 SCON vote:
    Fife NE -11.1%
    Caithness -6.1%
    Ed W -4.9%
    Dunb E -0.5%
    She had already squeezed the SCon vote in 2017
    The SCON vote increased in 2017:

    East Dunbartonshire SCON
    2010 15.5%
    2015 8.6% - lots of tactical voting for Swinson
    2017 14.6%
    2019 14.1% - little tactical voting for Swinson

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Dunbartonshire_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Dunbartonshire_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573

    maaarsh said:

    Back on housing.

    Where I live (Hackney), the council are doing a good job of developing high quality, but denser (not smaller), council housing.

    There’s a lot of council house crap from the 60s through 90s that is low spec, badly maintained, low rise etc. Slowly - but slightly faster in Hackney’s case - they are being replaced.

    The solution to Britain’s housing issues lies IN PART in an ambitious council housing development programme, delivering say 100,000 new homes per annum.

    We have some of the best architects in the world.

    If Labour get their way on work from home, you're busy trying to win the last war. No reason to try and squeeze so many people in to London anymore, and who wants to work from home in a small dense box.
    London’s fortunes remain to be seen.
    Anyway, the point about council housing is still valid.

    The private market is not capable of delivering sufficient quantity to keep prices affordable.
    The private market is perfectly capable of meeting demand in most other areas. The problem with the housing market is government driven on the supply side, planning laws, and the demand side, immigration driven demand which has not been built for (see supply side).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    Alistair said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Specific seats being targeted by the LibDems:

    Wimbledon
    Carshalton and Wallington
    Winchester
    Esher and Walton
    Guildford
    Eastbourne
    Wokingham
    Surrey South West
    Cheltenham
    Lewes

    And if this meme really takes off, which I think it will, there are a raft of other seats that could be under threat.

    Where does this leave Labour? I don't know to be honest.

    It leaves Scottish Labour grinning like a Cheshire cat.

    This is fantastic news for progressive opponents of the Scottish Liberal Democrats. The more their English bosses chase votes in Surrey, Hampshire, Berkshire et al the easier it is to continue peeling away centre-left SLD voters.

    Without tactical voting the SLDs would be extinct.
    Given the LibDems are benefiting from unionist tactical voting, it's unclear that their specific policy platform has any impact on their Scottish electoral success (or otherwise).
    Tactical voting is, by its very nature, short-term. Eventually all declining parties, irrespective of tactical votes, fall back to their very core. The problem for the SLDs is that they have no core. They have no throbbing heart. They have no raison d’être.

    Unionist tactical votes are a false dawn for the SLDs, because one day those voters will all go “home”. And when that happens, the vacuum at the core will dissolve in a wee fart.
    I don't think that we can discount the effect of a Scottish national leader. For all her faults, Swinson was Scottish and represented a Scottish seat, albeit clearly a Scottish tradition that is anathema to you.

    All parties do better in Scotland when the national leader is Scottish. Brown held onto SLAB seats that would just be a dream now.

    The converse is that those 4 SLD seats do look vulnerable with Davey in charge.
    Hmm. The national party leader thing didn't work for Ms Swinson in her very own seat. (I often wondered if prospective fracking in the area was an issue.)

    Yes, the SLDs only have 4 MSPs, down one from last time, in Holyrood - but this is an only roughly proportional voting system which gives extra seats to minor parties ()as fiddled originally by SLD + Labour, as I have said ad nauseam here). That in a parliament with 7 Scottish Greens MSPs.

    I suspect Swinson was rather off-putting to potential tactical support from SCON voters.

    2019 SCON vote:
    Fife NE -11.1%
    Caithness -6.1%
    Ed W -4.9%
    Dunb E -0.5%
    She had already squeezed the SCon vote in 2017
    The SCON vote increased in 2017:

    East Dunbartonshire SCON
    2010 15.5%
    2015 8.6% - lots of tactical voting for Swinson
    2017 14.6%
    2019 14.1% - little tactical voting for Swinson

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Dunbartonshire_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Dunbartonshire_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
    Must have been tempting to vote SNP to get a laugh at the Lib Dem’s expense.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    edited June 2021
    FF43 said:

    I wonder if the Tories are making a mistake with their Anti-Woke Cancel Culture agenda. What's coming across in the vox pops in Chesham & Amersham is that erstwhile and potential Conservative Party voters don't think the party in its current version is nice. I don't imagine many of them would ever "take the knee", but do believe people do these things for good motives. In any case it's not up to them to control how people think.
    I think it's a sound tactic, but less is more - let the ridiculousness of things speak for themselves, then critique the sillier bits with a long suffering common sense kind of style which will chime well for a lot of people. Go too hard too often and it looks obsessive.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Poll shows "20 percent of American adults still say they will definitely not get the vaccine or will get vaccinated only if it is required,"

    NY Times
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    edited June 2021

    Aaron Bastani
    @AaronBastani
    ·
    43m
    It’s not just Palestine. Galloway focusing on closure of local police station and Huddersfield getting all the money in Kirklees.

    Sure, but lots of small party and Indy candidates focus on local issues and they don't even get a look in. From reports it seems pretty clear it's Palestine, and Galloway's stance on those issues, that is giving him a chance to be heard on others.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    I see today we're getting a lot of hot takes on "Voters in C&A voted the way they did because of issues important to me":

    Tories claiming planning policies are to blame for an astounding 25% swing to LidDems in Chesham, with Labour + Green’s lost deposits are refusing to face truth. What swung it was Brexit and repulsion with Johnson - his lies, erratic handling of Covid +serial abuse of power.

    https://twitter.com/williamnhutton/status/1406173213164453889?s=20

    Tory rout in Chesham is not just about HS2 and planning. Voters are also furious about cuts to foreign aid, social care and help for poor kids. They hate Brexit, lies, cronyism and sleaze. Boris Johnson should be terrified. This is the endgame of his cynical and failed regime

    https://twitter.com/MaryRiddell/status/1406147082281525251?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    "Iran’s ultraconservative judiciary chief, Ebrahim Raisi, looked certain to become the country’s next president on Saturday after an election that many voters skipped, seeing it as rigged in his favor."

    NY Times
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    I see today we're getting a lot of hot takes on "Voters in C&A voted the way they did because of issues important to me":

    Tories claiming planning policies are to blame for an astounding 25% swing to LidDems in Chesham, with Labour + Green’s lost deposits are refusing to face truth. What swung it was Brexit and repulsion with Johnson - his lies, erratic handling of Covid +serial abuse of power.

    https://twitter.com/williamnhutton/status/1406173213164453889?s=20

    Tory rout in Chesham is not just about HS2 and planning. Voters are also furious about cuts to foreign aid, social care and help for poor kids. They hate Brexit, lies, cronyism and sleaze. Boris Johnson should be terrified. This is the endgame of his cynical and failed regime

    https://twitter.com/MaryRiddell/status/1406147082281525251?s=20

    I love a good over the top take. The grander the better, especially if the 'endgame' is not evidenced at the next electoral test that is encountered.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    Not really relevant to politics, but I understand Rishi Sunak has been at an open day at Marlborough College today, presumably considering it for his kids.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470
    Looking at the world in data vaccination numbers it looks like France is starting to lag behind the other western European countries.

    If it continues for the next few days it will suggest that France is reaching its max vaccination level - which was already suggested by them opening vaccination to 12 year olds.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    New thread
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Fighting battles, losing wars:

    Exclusive: Stop using terms ‘boy’ and ‘girl’, Stonewall tells teachers
    Use the word ‘learner’ instead, says controversial LGBT charity as it urges schools to ditch all gendered language and gendered uniforms


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/18/exclusive-stop-using-terms-boy-girl-stonewall-tells-teachers/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    Not really relevant to politics, but I understand Rishi Sunak has been at an open day at Marlborough College today, presumably considering it for his kids.

    Well, he can afford to splurge on such things I guess.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575

    ” Tony Blair is mulling a return to Westminster, and he is said to believe he would do a better job as PM now than when he first occupied the post”

    https://twitter.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1406179274441334787

    Don't subscribe to the Thunderer so can't read the article. Of which party is he considering a return with? He would struggle to get selected with Labour and certainly wouldn't be elected its leader. I assume he isn't going to join the LibDems. He isn't a Tory.

    So the only thing that makes sense is him forming a new centre party. He would need to win the support of the WWC who backed him previously AND the support of remainer shire Tories fed up with Johnsonism.

    An utterly impossible task. Surely. For anyone who isn't Blair...
    It's quite a good article (and yes, it's Labour he'd stand for) - I was interested to see a reference to Harold Wilson's book on previous PMs, which is available from Amazon for a few quid and had 100% 5* reviews, quoting its chatty and accessible style. I'd never heard of it and I've ordered it.
    There is also a DVD of Wilson's television series on past Prime Ministers. As it happens, I am just rewatching the Cockerill documentary, How to be an ex-Prime Minister, which does mention Churchill having had a stroke as well as heart attacks (paging @ydoethur). I've got Moran's book somewhere but I can't put my hand on it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    Back on housing.

    Where I live (Hackney), the council are doing a good job of developing high quality, but denser (not smaller), council housing.

    There’s a lot of council house crap from the 60s through 90s that is low spec, badly maintained, low rise etc. Slowly - but slightly faster in Hackney’s case - they are being replaced.

    The solution to Britain’s housing issues lies IN PART in an ambitious council housing development programme, delivering say 100,000 new homes per annum.

    We have some of the best architects in the world.

    If Labour get their way on work from home, you're busy trying to win the last war. No reason to try and squeeze so many people in to London anymore, and who wants to work from home in a small dense box.
    London’s fortunes remain to be seen.
    Anyway, the point about council housing is still valid.

    The private market is not capable of delivering sufficient quantity to keep prices affordable.
    The private market is perfectly capable of meeting demand in most other areas. The problem with the housing market is government driven on the supply side, planning laws, and the demand side, immigration driven demand which has not been built for (see supply side).
    There are several “issues” with housing that make it a unique market; land scarcity, planning rights and local consent, equity of ownership, house as joint home/investment, ease of finance.

    No sensible person says, “leave it all to the market”.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Fighting battles, losing wars:

    Exclusive: Stop using terms ‘boy’ and ‘girl’, Stonewall tells teachers
    Use the word ‘learner’ instead, says controversial LGBT charity as it urges schools to ditch all gendered language and gendered uniforms


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/18/exclusive-stop-using-terms-boy-girl-stonewall-tells-teachers/

    Would love to know how they teach sex education and “the facts of life” these days...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    supposedly “Independent” Sage includes two Labour donors, two communists (one former, one practising), a handful of Corbynistas and a Momentum activist. No one on the committee appears to have voted for Boris Johnson or Brexit.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/19/scare-tactics-owe-socialism-science/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    Not really relevant to politics, but I understand Rishi Sunak has been at an open day at Marlborough College today, presumably considering it for his kids.

    Not very handy for either Darlington, Richmond or Westminster, is it?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,708
    Scott_xP said:

    ITV once again need to take the blame for last nights draw. By way of update, since France ‘98, England’s record at tournaments now stands at:

    ITV: P24 W4 D12 L8
    BBC: P22 W15 D3 L4

    The last time England won in 90mins on ITV Jude Bellingham was 8 years old. #ITVCurse

    https://twitter.com/LewisMatthews1/status/1406167151476674563

    And to think of all the patriots who now want to get rid of the BBC.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,708
    I'd accept Brexit being THE issue in C & A if remain was something like 70% there. But I don't think it was.

    My own take and I'm not suggesting this was the only factor is that people are starting to understand the benefits of living in a marginal seat. They're tired of elections in their area being a foregone conclusion and the incentive if you live in a safe seat is to turn it into a marginal.

    In Hartlepool - if we vote Tory they'll start listening to us. In Chesham - if we stop voting Tory they'll start listening to us. A very transactional or mercenary approach to politics but it seems to be where we are.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    I'd accept Brexit being THE issue in C & A if remain was something like 70% there. But I don't think it was.

    My own take and I'm not suggesting this was the only factor is that people are starting to understand the benefits of living in a marginal seat. They're tired of elections in their area being a foregone conclusion and the incentive if you live in a safe seat is to turn it into a marginal.

    In Hartlepool - if we vote Tory they'll start listening to us. In Chesham - if we stop voting Tory they'll start listening to us. A very transactional or mercenary approach to politics but it seems to be where we are.

    That would be encouraging indeed, more competitive seats and less tribal voting is good, though I fear it may be more flash in the pan.
This discussion has been closed.