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Keir Starmer now slumps to Corbyn levels in the latest Ipsos leader ratings – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,127
edited June 2021 in General
imageKeir Starmer now slumps to Corbyn levels in the latest Ipsos leader ratings – politicalbetting.com

Yesterday in an interview Starmer was asked whether he could name his party’s candidate in next week’s Chesham and Amersham by-election. He couldn’t and another indication of how badly things are going for him.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    edited June 2021
    Oh dear! That's a shame...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Shouldn't you put a trigger warning on that? Some of the flag sensitive types here might have a convulsive fit....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    But Brittas absolutely smashed it on Piers Moron....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    FPT - yes, there are cases here too (including my plumber).

    But, if they're not progressing to significant numbers of hospitalisations then it may be best to ensure vaccination, use a bit of common sense and let it wash.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Maybe he should be concentrating on Batley and Spen, rather than on internal rows between trans activists and feminist activists?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    I like it. Looks like a great place to watch the Euros. Some nice pubs in Sheffield.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,570
    Boris's +ve numbers are very close to the current Tory voting intention numbers.

    His -ve numbers are very much in line with Lab+LD+Grn.

    This would seem to be a good point of validation.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    FPT - yes, there are cases here too (including my plumber).

    But, if they're not progressing to significant numbers of hospitalisations then it may be best to ensure vaccination, use a bit of common sense and let it wash.

    We have to have an exit wave at some stage. Surely it is better to let it wash now than face it in the autumn when the weather is worse, and more people are socialising indoors?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Not sure this will help Starmer's ratings:

    https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549?s=20
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    nationalism ultimately exists only to support itself, it is never truly utilitarian. This is the perfect example of that. Wilson’s argument is that the extra money for public services is bad because it is not ‘ours’ - but that is only true if you accept the more narrow, nationalist definition of who we are. The money is ours for as long as we remain in the UK. The unsustainable deficit only becomes real if leave.

    Like nationalists the world over, they are spending all their time trying to work out how to solve problems that are caused only by their nationalism.


    https://notesonnationalism.substack.com/p/are-we-supposed-to-take-this-seriously
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited June 2021
    FPT
    Pulpstar said:

    Here's how 1st doses have been utilised over time.



    Will add 2nds at some point

    Interesting to see how little Moderna has been given so far, I know they've been giving it out occasionally as 1sts at the Leeds Elland Road mass vaccination centre for a couple of weeks now (including myself yesterday, although I expected Pfizer right up until being told) so I thought the line would be about 3x as high as where it is now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    It’s everyone’s duty to spend the next four weeks supporting the hard-hit licenced trade, most affected by the pandemic, by being in the pub every night and drinking the bar dry.

    At least, that’s my excuse.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    FPT - yes, there are cases here too (including my plumber).

    But, if they're not progressing to significant numbers of hospitalisations then it may be best to ensure vaccination, use a bit of common sense and let it wash.

    From previous threads, what I have been saying for a while is -

    1) We are not at herd immunity(*) for COVID
    2) It will be very difficult to reach herd immunity. It may well not be possible.
    3) Unlocking will therefore cause a rise in cases.
    4) The hope/intention is that the cases will not lead to a rise in serious illness/deaths, due to vaccinations
    5) The political problem is vulnerable groups

    *Meaning R is below 1 for no restrictions. COVID dies out by itself.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    Notice Burnham looking quite popular there... Waiting in the wings to return Labour to power in 2029 or thereabouts... ;)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    RH1992 said:

    FPT

    Pulpstar said:

    Here's how 1st doses have been utilised over time.



    Will add 2nds at some point

    Interesting to see how little Moderna has been given so far, I know they've been giving it out occasionally as 1sts at the Leeds Elland Road mass vaccination centre for a couple of weeks now (including myself yesterday, although I expected Pfizer right up until being told) but didn't expect it to be that few.
    I had it and it is a bugger to get a second dose. There clearly don't have that much of it.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2021
    A discussion of Starmer's ratings with IPSOS and others from 2 April that's useful to quote two months later. Mike (with perhaps a few others) was right!

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Fernando said:

    Aren’t you missing the obvious. He was doing quite well in 2020. However, since then Johnson has been shown to have made the correct decisions on vaccines. Starmer can’t escape from the popular judgement that he would have left us in the same position as the EU.
    One leader was right. The other was wrong. We rarely have such a clear division.

    Good spot. Starmer was leading in the ratings and Labour led the polls - but, now more people know who he is, his ratings have fallen off a cliff.

    Look at these YouGovs - since he took over he hasn’t got any more positives, and all the don’t knows have gone negative, it is almost strangely ridiculously clear




    This broadly happens with most LOTO - start well, as people know them, they drop.

    There are three main outliers

    *Blair, who never dropped
    *Cameron, who dropped during the Brown bounce, and recovered back to where he was
    *Corbyn, who only rose when May stacked it, and recovered back to where he was
    Cameron did terribly vs Blair and great vs Brown. But your point is a good one, and it underlines the fact that most LotOs have ratings that follow the pattern of Sir Keir’s, & don’t become PM.
    Disagree. Cameron's negative bit was solely in that spell when Brown was hyping the election that never was.

    image
    As you've pointed out and the chart shows, most new LOTOs tend to lose their shine quite quickly. But so far at least, that last straight line representing Starmer is something dramatic - it looks like a meteorite on impact trajectory...
    So we should be expecting big Tory gains in the locals on May 6th
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    FPT - yes, there are cases here too (including my plumber).

    But, if they're not progressing to significant numbers of hospitalisations then it may be best to ensure vaccination, use a bit of common sense and let it wash.

    From previous threads, what I have been saying for a while is -

    1) We are not at herd immunity(*) for COVID
    2) It will be very difficult to reach herd immunity. It may well not be possible.
    3) Unlocking will therefore cause a rise in cases.
    4) The hope/intention is that the cases will not lead to a rise in serious illness/deaths, due to vaccinations
    5) The political problem is vulnerable groups

    *Meaning R is below 1 for no restrictions. COVID dies out by itself.
    Vulnerable groups have all be double jabbed by now, unless they have refused the vaccine?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Just don't mention the NHS's PPE you banned the export of to the UK:

    "A few days ahead of the G7, consultation with NGOs. From day one, France has worked to make solutions to the pandemic a global public good. Sharing of doses, opening-up of intellectual property, funding of health systems. It's up to the G7 to commit!" - President Macron

    https://twitter.com/FranceintheUK/status/1402922665841770504?s=20
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657
    Sandpit said:

    It’s everyone’s duty to spend the next four weeks supporting the hard-hit licenced trade, most affected by the pandemic, by being in the pub every night and drinking the bar dry.

    At least, that’s my excuse.
    I did that at the end of the last lockdown and ended up being banned from Wetherspoons. That's gratitude for you!
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,570
    edited June 2021

    FPT - yes, there are cases here too (including my plumber).

    But, if they're not progressing to significant numbers of hospitalisations then it may be best to ensure vaccination, use a bit of common sense and let it wash.

    We have to have an exit wave at some stage. Surely it is better to let it wash now than face it in the autumn when the weather is worse, and more people are socialising indoors?
    Surely it's better to have the "final" exit in the spring when we're at 75%+ 2-doses, and have got through the winter demand on the NHS, rather than loading up the NHS into that winter spike?

    The worst thing for e.g. hospitality would be a return to (even local) lockdowns in response to a slightly-worse-than-expected exit spike now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    GIN1138 said:

    Notice Burnham looking quite popular there... Waiting in the wings to return Labour to power in 2029 or thereabouts... ;)

    He’s the obvious successor to Starmer, one of few Labour politicians who is acting like a statesman at the moment. The question is, how can he get himself back into Parliament before the vacancy arises?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Interesting how little comment Hancock's testimony is getting compared to Cummings a few weeks ago.

    Hancock certainly seems to know his stuff, which you should hope for a Health Secretary nearly a year and a half into a pandemic, and has good answers for the things Cummings brought up.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    FPT - yes, there are cases here too (including my plumber).

    But, if they're not progressing to significant numbers of hospitalisations then it may be best to ensure vaccination, use a bit of common sense and let it wash.

    From previous threads, what I have been saying for a while is -

    1) We are not at herd immunity(*) for COVID
    2) It will be very difficult to reach herd immunity. It may well not be possible.
    3) Unlocking will therefore cause a rise in cases.
    4) The hope/intention is that the cases will not lead to a rise in serious illness/deaths, due to vaccinations
    5) The political problem is vulnerable groups

    *Meaning R is below 1 for no restrictions. COVID dies out by itself.
    Vulnerable groups have all be double jabbed by now, unless they have refused the vaccine?
    Just waiting on the latest release for England today... but remember that even at the highest, take-up is 96%

    So take your 85+ group, multiply it out... that's a quite a few people who have no vaccine at all. CFR is 30% for them - get Covid, and 1/3rd die.

    When you add in the factor that these pockets of low/no vax are socially concentrated.....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    (FPT)
    TOPPING said:

    When I saw that Keir was introducing self-ID for trans yesterday, my heart sank.

    In what possible universe is this a good position to stake out during a key by-election.

    The government is fighting a culture war, and winning.

    Keir is an idiot. He must stand down immediately after Batley & Spen which is increasingly looking like a loss (I previously had it as a win).

    Where did you see this?
    https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549?s=20
    Interesting. Not having the tables in front of me are trans people really "one of the most discriminated against" in the UK?

    I suppose if the proportion of trans people who are discriminated against is higher that the proportion of other minorities then perhaps. Who has the stats?

    I mean of course one trans person discriminated against is one too much but what a strange thing for SKS to say.
    Impolitic perhaps, but not strange, since it's quite likely true.

    You won't find any 'tables' since for reasons which ought to be obvious, it's not a group easy for statisticians to identify even if it were a priority for them, which it hasn't been.

    Even the government's own publications suggest as much.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/721642/GEO-LGBT-factsheet.pdf
    How many trans people are there?
    We don’t know. No robust data on the UK trans population exists. We tentatively estimate that there are approximately 200,000-500,000 trans people in the UK. The Office for National Statistics is researching whether and how to develop a population estimate.
    Facts and Figures
    41% of trans men and trans women responding to
    a Stonewall survey said they had experienced a hate crime or incident because of their gender identity in the last 12 months. They also found that 25% of trans people had experienced homelessness at some point in their lives. Our national LGBT survey found similar results, with 67% of trans respondents saying they had avoided being open about their gender identity for fear of a negative reaction from others...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455

    FPT - yes, there are cases here too (including my plumber).

    But, if they're not progressing to significant numbers of hospitalisations then it may be best to ensure vaccination, use a bit of common sense and let it wash.

    From previous threads, what I have been saying for a while is -

    1) We are not at herd immunity(*) for COVID
    2) It will be very difficult to reach herd immunity. It may well not be possible.
    3) Unlocking will therefore cause a rise in cases.
    4) The hope/intention is that the cases will not lead to a rise in serious illness/deaths, due to vaccinations
    5) The political problem is vulnerable groups

    *Meaning R is below 1 for no restrictions. COVID dies out by itself.
    Vulnerable groups have all be double jabbed by now, unless they have refused the vaccine?
    One thing we can't do is shape policy around refuseniks.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Notice Burnham looking quite popular there... Waiting in the wings to return Labour to power in 2029 or thereabouts... ;)

    He’s the obvious successor to Starmer, one of few Labour politicians who is acting like a statesman at the moment. The question is, how can he get himself back into Parliament before the vacancy arises?
    He has to hope Starmer can drag it out until the next election.

    The trend is not Starmer's friend in that chart in the OP. I wonder if we'll see crossover soon and Starmer even more unpopular than Corbyn at the same point?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Not sure this will help Starmer's ratings:

    https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549?s=20

    It doesn't seem very politically savvy to go wading into this. It is such a divisive issue, especially among left leaning traditional feminist types. Let along traditional red wall flat cap and whippet lot.
    It's politically inept - nothing wrong with supporting LGBTQ+ rights, but grasping the third rail of self-id, which is far from being an uncontested matter on the left, let alone the general population when it potentially conflicts with natal women's rights - its an odd hill to die on.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    FPT:

    Mr. Walker, point of order: the vast majority of those opposing May's deal were pro-EU.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455

    Not sure this will help Starmer's ratings:

    https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549?s=20

    It doesn't seem very politically savvy to go wading into this. It is such a divisive issue, especially among left leaning traditional feminist types. Let along traditional red wall flat cap and whippet lot.
    It's politically inept - nothing wrong with supporting LGBTQ+ rights, but grasping the third rail of self-id, which is far from being an uncontested matter on the left, let alone the general population when it potentially conflicts with natal women's rights - its an odd hill to die on.
    Its not even a uncontested among the gay community. The very funny Dave Chapelle but about this shines a light on it.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    I am sure it is very dispiriting for SKS. SKS can see Johnson is a rogue, as we all can.

    But, enough of the UK electorate think Johnson is a loveable old rogue.

    It is very obvious SKS is going down to defeat in 2024.

    SKS is MORE wooden and accident-prone than Ed Miliband. (Even some of the accidents are the same -- remember when Ed Miliband could not name the SLAB leader).

    How come Labour carries on making the same mistakes again and again?

    Presumably we are due for Corbyn Mark II, after SKS has resigned at 3.00 am on Friday 3rd May 2024.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    One for the accepted wisdom to chew over..,


  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Notice Burnham looking quite popular there... Waiting in the wings to return Labour to power in 2029 or thereabouts... ;)

    He’s the obvious successor to Starmer, one of few Labour politicians who is acting like a statesman at the moment. The question is, how can he get himself back into Parliament before the vacancy arises?
    I think Burnham is pretty shallow, and I always found his Professional Northerner act a bit grating. Mind you, I didn't vote for Starmer either - he is a smart guy and would make a great PM but I have met him and to say that he lacks showbiz appeal would be an understatement. It's hard to get excited about any of them TBH.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    edited June 2021
    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Notice Burnham looking quite popular there... Waiting in the wings to return Labour to power in 2029 or thereabouts... ;)

    He’s the obvious successor to Starmer, one of few Labour politicians who is acting like a statesman at the moment. The question is, how can he get himself back into Parliament before the vacancy arises?
    Well Starmer is there until the next election IMO.

    1. Labour never remove their leaders mid-term

    2. Who (of the serious contenders) would want the job at the moment?

    Stamer will be left in place to take the next general election loss... Burnham will stand at the next election and then after Starmer loses the general election there will be a leadership contest which Burnham will win.

    Burnham will be quite a popular LOTO and with Boris likely to stand down at some point in the next Parliament and the Tories probably becoming very unpopular after 15-20 years in power Burnham will win the following election around 2027-2029 and return Labour to government!

    Big unknown is how Scotland fits in to all this. On that I have no idea... but that's how Mystic GIN sees the rest of the decade panning out.

    Bet accordingly (or not) haha!!!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    No demarche. Biden admin isn’t issuing any diplomatic rebuke to UK over Northern Ireland, I’m told, contrary to a report in a British newspaper. US is saying same thing to in private as in public about concerns about Britain's handling of the post-Brexit situation, per officials.

    https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1402901660867993601?s=20
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257

    FPT:

    Mr. Walker, point of order: the vast majority of those opposing May's deal were pro-EU.

    I’m not sure that’s even true.

    I can’t remember the various polling, but there was a continued plurality for a soft Brexit.
    Mays wasn’t a true soft Brexit, but not a true hard Brexit.

    Her deal died because
    a) an unholy alliance between hard core Brexiters, the DUP, and Boris-putschists.

    b) she was unwilling to pass the deal with opposition votes, fearing it would mean the end of her premiership because of (a).

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Notice Burnham looking quite popular there... Waiting in the wings to return Labour to power in 2029 or thereabouts... ;)

    He’s the obvious successor to Starmer, one of few Labour politicians who is acting like a statesman at the moment. The question is, how can he get himself back into Parliament before the vacancy arises?
    I think Burnham is pretty shallow, and I always found his Professional Northerner act a bit grating. Mind you, I didn't vote for Starmer either - he is a smart guy and would make a great PM but I have met him and to say that he lacks showbiz appeal would be an understatement. It's hard to get excited about any of them TBH.
    People seem to forget how useless he was as a minister. And for all the king of the North stuff, he lost and actually caused more deaths by delaying proper restrictions to come into place.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited June 2021
    A woman who lost her job after saying that people cannot change their biological sex has won an appeal against an employment tribunal.

    BBC News - Maya Forstater: Woman wins tribunal appeal over transgender tweet
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57426579
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257


    I am sure it is very dispiriting for SKS. SKS can see Johnson is a rogue, as we all can.

    But, enough of the UK electorate think Johnson is a loveable old rogue.

    It is very obvious SKS is going down to defeat in 2024.

    SKS is MORE wooden and accident-prone than Ed Miliband. (Even some of the accidents are the same -- remember when Ed Miliband could not name the SLAB leader).

    How come Labour carries on making the same mistakes again and again?

    Presumably we are due for Corbyn Mark II, after SKS has resigned at 3.00 am on Friday 3rd May 2024.

    Keir’s mission now is simply to make sure that Labour cannot vote for another Corbyn.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    FPT - yes, there are cases here too (including my plumber).

    But, if they're not progressing to significant numbers of hospitalisations then it may be best to ensure vaccination, use a bit of common sense and let it wash.

    From previous threads, what I have been saying for a while is -

    1) We are not at herd immunity(*) for COVID
    2) It will be very difficult to reach herd immunity. It may well not be possible.
    3) Unlocking will therefore cause a rise in cases.
    4) The hope/intention is that the cases will not lead to a rise in serious illness/deaths, due to vaccinations
    5) The political problem is vulnerable groups

    *Meaning R is below 1 for no restrictions. COVID dies out by itself.
    Vulnerable groups have all be double jabbed by now, unless they have refused the vaccine?
    Just waiting on the latest release for England today... but remember that even at the highest, take-up is 96%

    So take your 85+ group, multiply it out... that's a quite a few people who have no vaccine at all. CFR is 30% for them - get Covid, and 1/3rd die.

    When you add in the factor that these pockets of low/no vax are socially concentrated.....
    Presumably those people have refused the vaccine?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited June 2021

    No demarche. Biden admin isn’t issuing any diplomatic rebuke to UK over Northern Ireland, I’m told, contrary to a report in a British newspaper. US is saying same thing to in private as in public about concerns about Britain's handling of the post-Brexit situation, per officials.

    https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1402901660867993601?s=20

    Sounds like the nonsense about he wouldn't phone Boris after winning election....the difference with the new administration team is that they are professionals, they do things in the more traditional diplomatic manner rather than Trump style megaphone.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    DougSeal said:

    One for the accepted wisdom to chew over..,


    Interesting that there’s less support in Scotland than England, but very much split as we have discussed on here.

    Of more concern, will be the split among those who actually attend the matches.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257

    No demarche. Biden admin isn’t issuing any diplomatic rebuke to UK over Northern Ireland, I’m told, contrary to a report in a British newspaper. US is saying same thing to in private as in public about concerns about Britain's handling of the post-Brexit situation, per officials.

    https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1402901660867993601?s=20

    Sounds like the nonsense about he wouldn't phone Boris after winning election....the difference with the new administration team is that they are professional.
    What really is the tangible difference, diplomatically, between issuing a demarche, and leaking to the Times that you are minded to issue a demarche?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited June 2021
    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    One for the accepted wisdom to chew over..,


    Interesting that there’s less support in Scotland than England, but very much split as we have discussed on here.

    Of more concern, will be the split among those who actually attend the matches.
    It isn't even certain the team will be doing the taking of the knee.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited June 2021

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Notice Burnham looking quite popular there... Waiting in the wings to return Labour to power in 2029 or thereabouts... ;)

    He’s the obvious successor to Starmer, one of few Labour politicians who is acting like a statesman at the moment. The question is, how can he get himself back into Parliament before the vacancy arises?
    I think Burnham is pretty shallow, and I always found his Professional Northerner act a bit grating. Mind you, I didn't vote for Starmer either - he is a smart guy and would make a great PM but I have met him and to say that he lacks showbiz appeal would be an understatement. It's hard to get excited about any of them TBH.
    People seem to forget how useless he was as a minister. And for all the king of the North stuff, he lost and actually caused more deaths by delaying proper restrictions to come into place.
    Since when is being useless a debar to a serious career in politics ... The House of Commons would be empty if we applied such a stringent criterion.

    Burnham has shown more ... street wisdom ... on how to oppose Boris than SKS.

    Agreed, it was mainly posturing and emptiness, but it worked.

    That's politics. That's what SKS is crap at.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    Good discussion of the UFO footage by a US fighter/commercial pilot, for Wired magazine

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6aBWssGnng

    Stand out line: one aircraft was seen doing 46,000 miles an hour - 60 times the speed of sound
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited June 2021
    I see cricket have managed to find a middle ground....very simple statement, cricket should he seen as a game for me, no matter who I am.

    And not a boo to be heard.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    A WOMAN who lost her job after tweeting that “male people are not women” has won a landmark employment case.

    The victory for Maya Forstater, who was backed by JK Rowling and SNP MP Joanna Cherry QC, means people with ‘gender critical’ beliefs must not be sacked simply for holding them.

    However, they cannot express them in a way that discriminates against trans people.

    Ms Cherry said the decision should end discrimination against academics, trade unionists and others like herself who had been bullied and threatened because of their beliefs.


    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19362788.maya-forstater-wins-landmark-employment-case-gender-critical-beliefs/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Notice Burnham looking quite popular there... Waiting in the wings to return Labour to power in 2029 or thereabouts... ;)

    He’s the obvious successor to Starmer, one of few Labour politicians who is acting like a statesman at the moment. The question is, how can he get himself back into Parliament before the vacancy arises?
    I think Burnham is pretty shallow, and I always found his Professional Northerner act a bit grating. Mind you, I didn't vote for Starmer either - he is a smart guy and would make a great PM but I have met him and to say that he lacks showbiz appeal would be an understatement. It's hard to get excited about any of them TBH.
    Who would get your vote, and who do you think the party in general are likely to vote for?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Sandpit said:

    It’s everyone’s duty to spend the next four weeks supporting the hard-hit licenced trade, most affected by the pandemic, by being in the pub every night and drinking the bar dry.

    At least, that’s my excuse.
    Yes!!!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455

    A WOMAN who lost her job after tweeting that “male people are not women” has won a landmark employment case.

    The victory for Maya Forstater, who was backed by JK Rowling and SNP MP Joanna Cherry QC, means people with ‘gender critical’ beliefs must not be sacked simply for holding them.

    However, they cannot express them in a way that discriminates against trans people.

    Ms Cherry said the decision should end discrimination against academics, trade unionists and others like herself who had been bullied and threatened because of their beliefs.


    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19362788.maya-forstater-wins-landmark-employment-case-gender-critical-beliefs/

    And on the day Starmer wades in on the other side of the debate.....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    I see twitter is trying to cancel Brrewdog today...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited June 2021
    As a member of the sports sub-committee of Independent SAGE, it is my duty to tell you I expect England to be 3 down shortly.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    TOPPING said:

    When I saw that Keir was introducing self-ID for trans yesterday, my heart sank.

    In what possible universe is this a good position to stake out during a key by-election.

    The government is fighting a culture war, and winning.

    Keir is an idiot. He must stand down immediately after Batley & Spen which is increasingly looking like a loss (I previously had it as a win).

    Where did you see this?
    https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549?s=20
    Interesting. Not having the tables in front of me are trans people really "one of the most discriminated against" in the UK?

    I suppose if the proportion of trans people who are discriminated against is higher that the proportion of other minorities then perhaps. Who has the stats?

    I mean of course one trans person discriminated against is one too much but what a strange thing for SKS to say.
    Impolitic perhaps, but not strange, since it's quite likely true.

    You won't find any 'tables' since for reasons which ought to be obvious, it's not a group easy for statisticians to identify even if it were a priority for them, which it hasn't been.

    Even the government's own publications suggest as much.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/721642/GEO-LGBT-factsheet.pdf
    How many trans people are there?
    We don’t know. No robust data on the UK trans population exists. We tentatively estimate that there are approximately 200,000-500,000 trans people in the UK. The Office for National Statistics is researching whether and how to develop a population estimate.
    Facts and Figures
    41% of trans men and trans women responding to
    a Stonewall survey said they had experienced a hate crime or incident because of their gender identity in the last 12 months. They also found that 25% of trans people had experienced homelessness at some point in their lives. Our national LGBT survey found similar results, with 67% of trans respondents saying they had avoided being open about their gender identity for fear of a negative reaction from others...
    Interesting. Thanks.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    FPT:

    Mr. Walker, point of order: the vast majority of those opposing May's deal were pro-EU.

    I’m not sure that’s even true.

    I can’t remember the various polling, but there was a continued plurality for a soft Brexit.
    Mays wasn’t a true soft Brexit, but not a true hard Brexit.

    Her deal died because
    a) an unholy alliance between hard core Brexiters, the DUP, and Boris-putschists.

    b) she was unwilling to pass the deal with opposition votes, fearing it would mean the end of her premiership because of (a).

    a) There was nothing unholy about hard core Brexiteers opposing May's deal. May's deal was atrocious and it was replaced with an infinitely better deal as far as we were concerned.

    b) She was unable to pass the deal with opposition votes because the opposition opposed. Had Corbyn whipped his MPs to abstain on the Meaningful Vote then the deal would have gone through, we'd have been trapped in a ludicrous BRINO backstop deal and the Tory party would have been torn asunder in bitterness.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    Masks don't seem very popular at the cricket.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    A WOMAN who lost her job after tweeting that “male people are not women” has won a landmark employment case.

    The victory for Maya Forstater, who was backed by JK Rowling and SNP MP Joanna Cherry QC, means people with ‘gender critical’ beliefs must not be sacked simply for holding them.

    However, they cannot express them in a way that discriminates against trans people.

    Ms Cherry said the decision should end discrimination against academics, trade unionists and others like herself who had been bullied and threatened because of their beliefs.


    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19362788.maya-forstater-wins-landmark-employment-case-gender-critical-beliefs/

    And on the day Starmer wades in on the other side of the debate.....
    Awesome timing!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,891
    edited June 2021
    RH1992 said:

    FPT

    Pulpstar said:

    Here's how 1st doses have been utilised over time.



    Will add 2nds at some point

    Interesting to see how little Moderna has been given so far, I know they've been giving it out occasionally as 1sts at the Leeds Elland Road mass vaccination centre for a couple of weeks now (including myself yesterday, although I expected Pfizer right up until being told) so I thought the line would be about 3x as high as where it is now.
    Here's the full caboodle - the first dose previously was a bit wrong in case you're wondering.


  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    TOPPING said:

    When I saw that Keir was introducing self-ID for trans yesterday, my heart sank.

    In what possible universe is this a good position to stake out during a key by-election.

    The government is fighting a culture war, and winning.

    Keir is an idiot. He must stand down immediately after Batley & Spen which is increasingly looking like a loss (I previously had it as a win).

    Where did you see this?
    https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549?s=20
    Interesting. Not having the tables in front of me are trans people really "one of the most discriminated against" in the UK?

    I suppose if the proportion of trans people who are discriminated against is higher that the proportion of other minorities then perhaps. Who has the stats?

    I mean of course one trans person discriminated against is one too much but what a strange thing for SKS to say.
    Impolitic perhaps, but not strange, since it's quite likely true.

    You won't find any 'tables' since for reasons which ought to be obvious, it's not a group easy for statisticians to identify even if it were a priority for them, which it hasn't been.

    Even the government's own publications suggest as much.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/721642/GEO-LGBT-factsheet.pdf
    How many trans people are there?
    We don’t know. No robust data on the UK trans population exists. We tentatively estimate that there are approximately 200,000-500,000 trans people in the UK. The Office for National Statistics is researching whether and how to develop a population estimate.
    Facts and Figures
    41% of trans men and trans women responding to
    a Stonewall survey said they had experienced a hate crime or incident because of their gender identity in the last 12 months. They also found that 25% of trans people had experienced homelessness at some point in their lives. Our national LGBT survey found similar results, with 67% of trans respondents saying they had avoided being open about their gender identity for fear of a negative reaction from others...
    I'd be wary about believing what Stonewall issues these days on this topic since they give out misleading and incorrect advice on what the law on sex-based rights actually is. This ought to be a bigger scandal than it is, especially given that they are paid by a lot of government departments and other big companies to issue advice. Lying about what the law says in order to suit a particular agenda is utterly disgraceful.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Mr. Walker, she thrice put it to the Commons and a combination of Conservative MPs rebelling and the Labour Party (and other opposition MPs) en masse voted it down.

    I said at the time that when you've got MPs who really like the EU and MPs who really dislike the EU voting the same way, someone's screwing it up.

    The dumb soft pro-EU MPs of the Commons rejected everything and guaranteed that we'd leave on harder terms. It was epitomised by the lauded Grieve shrieking it was 'too late' when he was given the exact concession he'd asked for, but still didn't vote for it.

    I know this is going over old ground, but people generally should try to at least learn something from it. To tie it into the football story, pointing at people and telling them they're wicked for disliking the EU, or a gesture associated with iconoclast barbarians, isn't going to persuade them. The Little Englander nonsense from Cameron was dumb as hell, yet there were plenty of pro-EU types here tittering about it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    edited June 2021


    I am sure it is very dispiriting for SKS. SKS can see Johnson is a rogue, as we all can.

    But, enough of the UK electorate think Johnson is a loveable old rogue.

    It is very obvious SKS is going down to defeat in 2024.

    SKS is MORE wooden and accident-prone than Ed Miliband. (Even some of the accidents are the same -- remember when Ed Miliband could not name the SLAB leader).

    How come Labour carries on making the same mistakes again and again?

    Presumably we are due for Corbyn Mark II, after SKS has resigned at 3.00 am on Friday 3rd May 2024.

    Doesn't matter that he's wooden. It matters that he has not opposed the government in any vote in parliament over the past 15 months.

    Why would anyone vote for an opposition that has supported the government at every turn during one of the most important periods of post-war history? Even Jezza realised that an opposition should oppose.

    And national emergency my arse. Of course it was an extreme time but we weren't at war.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    TOPPING said:


    I am sure it is very dispiriting for SKS. SKS can see Johnson is a rogue, as we all can.

    But, enough of the UK electorate think Johnson is a loveable old rogue.

    It is very obvious SKS is going down to defeat in 2024.

    SKS is MORE wooden and accident-prone than Ed Miliband. (Even some of the accidents are the same -- remember when Ed Miliband could not name the SLAB leader).

    How come Labour carries on making the same mistakes again and again?

    Presumably we are due for Corbyn Mark II, after SKS has resigned at 3.00 am on Friday 3rd May 2024.

    Doesn't matter that he's wooden. It matters that he has not opposed the government in any vote in parliament over the past 15 months.

    Why would anyone vote for an opposition that has supported the government at every turn during one of the most important periods of post-war history?

    Even Jezza realised that an opposition should oppose.

    And national emergency my arse. Of course it was an extreme time but we weren't at war.
    It worse than not opposing anything, it is then how he then moans the government got it all wrong several months down the line...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2021

    Not sure this will help Starmer's ratings:

    https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549?s=20

    He has a strange way of talking to the camera in monologues, seems to over emphasise every 8th or 9th word . Doubt he speaks that way in real life.

    I guess all politicians do though, Boris does too now I come to think of it

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,272
    edited June 2021
    Interesting that while Boris is currently seen as more having what it takes to be a good PM than all Tory and Labour alternatives, including Sunak and Burnham, Burnham is narrowly preferred to Sunak and does best on a net basis too.

    Starmer can take comfort from the fact that the only alternative Labour figures who are seen to be better potential PMs than him, Khan and Burnham, are not even MPs at present
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    One for the accepted wisdom to chew over..,


    Interesting that there’s less support in Scotland than England, but very much split as we have discussed on here.

    Of more concern, will be the split among those who actually attend the matches.
    It upsets @Theuniondivvie 's "Scots nice, English nasty" narrative slightly given how close the two figures are. Probably weren't true Scots answering the question
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    isam said:

    Not sure this will help Starmer's ratings:

    https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549?s=20

    He has a strange way of talking to the camera in monologues, seems to over emphasise every 8th or 9th word . Doubt he speaks that way in real life.

    That interview he did with Ch4 before the locals was really weird. It was like Ed Miliband +++
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337


    I am sure it is very dispiriting for SKS. SKS can see Johnson is a rogue, as we all can.

    But, enough of the UK electorate think Johnson is a loveable old rogue.

    It is very obvious SKS is going down to defeat in 2024.

    SKS is MORE wooden and accident-prone than Ed Miliband. (Even some of the accidents are the same -- remember when Ed Miliband could not name the SLAB leader).

    How come Labour carries on making the same mistakes again and again?

    Presumably we are due for Corbyn Mark II, after SKS has resigned at 3.00 am on Friday 3rd May 2024.

    Keir’s mission now is simply to make sure that Labour cannot vote for another Corbyn.
    How might he do that? [incidentally who would a retread Corbyn be in your eyes?]
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575

    Interesting how little comment Hancock's testimony is getting compared to Cummings a few weeks ago.

    Hancock certainly seems to know his stuff, which you should hope for a Health Secretary nearly a year and a half into a pandemic, and has good answers for the things Cummings brought up.

    Some of what Hancock says about, say, data is similar to what Cummings said. The difference might be that Cummings took this as proof that Civil Servants were incompetent if not malevolent and should be replaced by his mates, whereas those who've done it know that knocking up dashboards can be done from scratch in just a few days.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,272
    DougSeal said:

    One for the accepted wisdom to chew over..,


    More racists in Scotland than England?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Notice Burnham looking quite popular there... Waiting in the wings to return Labour to power in 2029 or thereabouts... ;)

    He’s the obvious successor to Starmer, one of few Labour politicians who is acting like a statesman at the moment. The question is, how can he get himself back into Parliament before the vacancy arises?
    I think Burnham is pretty shallow, and I always found his Professional Northerner act a bit grating. Mind you, I didn't vote for Starmer either - he is a smart guy and would make a great PM but I have met him and to say that he lacks showbiz appeal would be an understatement. It's hard to get excited about any of them TBH.
    People seem to forget how useless he was as a minister. And for all the king of the North stuff, he lost and actually caused more deaths by delaying proper restrictions to come into place.
    Since when is being useless a debar to a serious career in politics ... The House of Commons would be empty if we applied such a stringent criterion.

    Burnham has shown more ... street wisdom ... on how to oppose Boris than SKS.

    Agreed, it was mainly posturing and emptiness, but it worked.

    That's politics. That's what SKS is crap at.
    And the critiques of Burnham would carry more weight if those advancing them acknowledged that much the same can and could have been said about Johnson, and with every bit as much justification.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    I need to stay off Twitter


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    TOPPING said:


    I am sure it is very dispiriting for SKS. SKS can see Johnson is a rogue, as we all can.

    But, enough of the UK electorate think Johnson is a loveable old rogue.

    It is very obvious SKS is going down to defeat in 2024.

    SKS is MORE wooden and accident-prone than Ed Miliband. (Even some of the accidents are the same -- remember when Ed Miliband could not name the SLAB leader).

    How come Labour carries on making the same mistakes again and again?

    Presumably we are due for Corbyn Mark II, after SKS has resigned at 3.00 am on Friday 3rd May 2024.

    Doesn't matter that he's wooden. It matters that he has not opposed the government in any vote in parliament over the past 15 months.

    Why would anyone vote for an opposition that has supported the government at every turn during one of the most important periods of post-war history?

    Even Jezza realised that an opposition should oppose.

    And national emergency my arse. Of course it was an extreme time but we weren't at war.
    It worse than not opposing anything, it is then how he then moans the government got it all wrong several months down the line...
    LotO is a difficult job during something like a pandemic, but he doesn’t even seem to be trying.

    He could have played to his strengths as a serious, thoughtful type, to come up with constructive suggestions on how things might be done better, but he’s said nothing substantive except in hindsight, and focussed excessively on trivialities like wallpaper.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    One for the accepted wisdom to chew over..,


    More racists in Scotland than England?
    Can't be true. TUD told us that the racists are all English.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    On Topic

    SKS fans please explain
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,891
    I might yet vote for Stormer, on a purely objective basis of running the country he may well do a better job than Boris. He's got all the appeal of a rather dull spreadsheet though.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Mr. Walker, she thrice put it to the Commons and a combination of Conservative MPs rebelling and the Labour Party (and other opposition MPs) en masse voted it down.

    I said at the time that when you've got MPs who really like the EU and MPs who really dislike the EU voting the same way, someone's screwing it up.

    The dumb soft pro-EU MPs of the Commons rejected everything and guaranteed that we'd leave on harder terms. It was epitomised by the lauded Grieve shrieking it was 'too late' when he was given the exact concession he'd asked for, but still didn't vote for it.

    I know this is going over old ground, but people generally should try to at least learn something from it. To tie it into the football story, pointing at people and telling them they're wicked for disliking the EU, or a gesture associated with iconoclast barbarians, isn't going to persuade them. The Little Englander nonsense from Cameron was dumb as hell, yet there were plenty of pro-EU types here tittering about it.

    Absolutely the "too late" remark was peak hubris.

    The pro-EU MPs swallowed their own spin hook, line and sinker and thought they would win and overturn Brexit entirely rather than compromise on a BRINO Backstop that effectively kept us trapped in the Single Market and Customs Union with the EU having a veto on us ever leaving it.

    Seeing Grieve kicked out of the party after his behaviour, then comprehensively thrashed at Beaconsfield and an hard rather than soft Brexit follow was really enjoyable.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Notice Burnham looking quite popular there... Waiting in the wings to return Labour to power in 2029 or thereabouts... ;)

    He’s the obvious successor to Starmer, one of few Labour politicians who is acting like a statesman at the moment. The question is, how can he get himself back into Parliament before the vacancy arises?
    I think Burnham is pretty shallow, and I always found his Professional Northerner act a bit grating. Mind you, I didn't vote for Starmer either - he is a smart guy and would make a great PM but I have met him and to say that he lacks showbiz appeal would be an understatement. It's hard to get excited about any of them TBH.
    Who would get your vote, and who do you think the party in general are likely to vote for?
    Hmm I struggle to think who I would vote for TBH. I voted for Nandy last time. I couldn't claim to have my fingers on the pulse of the party, I am very inactive and never attend ward meetings. I voted the same way as the party in my first two leadership elections (Blair, E Miliband) but I've been out of touch with the party's mainstream since then. I don't think Labour has any obvious stars right now, that's one of their problems.
    I don't hold out much hope for this country having enlightened leadership any time soon. I hope it's cyclical but I worry we are in secular decline.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Masks don't seem very popular at the cricket.

    Someone shoudl tell Susan Michie


  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    In a defence of Starmer, despite his invisibility as LOTO, he is up against Johnson who the voters have perceived has had an inch-perfect, error-free pandemic.

    Johnson's genius has been his non-stop campaigning throughout the pandemic (something I was critical of, considering it tasteless during the height of a pandemic where thousands of people were dying each week). The campaigning has paid dividends and has given the impression that vaccine, procurement, programming and delivery were all entirely his gift to the nation, and now we a reaping the benefits- a nation unlocked and Covid vanquished. (Remember, perception, not reality, although the link between Covid and deaths seems over).

    I still cannot see past the early stages of a chaotic economy this time next year, which is why I feel Johnson should go very, very, early Spring/ early Autumn 2022. I believe the economic strife will take a year or so to fully make its mark on Johnson, which is why 2024 is too late.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:


    I am sure it is very dispiriting for SKS. SKS can see Johnson is a rogue, as we all can.

    But, enough of the UK electorate think Johnson is a loveable old rogue.

    It is very obvious SKS is going down to defeat in 2024.

    SKS is MORE wooden and accident-prone than Ed Miliband. (Even some of the accidents are the same -- remember when Ed Miliband could not name the SLAB leader).

    How come Labour carries on making the same mistakes again and again?

    Presumably we are due for Corbyn Mark II, after SKS has resigned at 3.00 am on Friday 3rd May 2024.

    Doesn't matter that he's wooden. It matters that he has not opposed the government in any vote in parliament over the past 15 months.

    Why would anyone vote for an opposition that has supported the government at every turn during one of the most important periods of post-war history?

    Even Jezza realised that an opposition should oppose.

    And national emergency my arse. Of course it was an extreme time but we weren't at war.
    It worse than not opposing anything, it is then how he then moans the government got it all wrong several months down the line...
    LotO is a difficult job during something like a pandemic, but he doesn’t even seem to be trying.

    He could have played to his strengths as a serious, thoughtful type, to come up with constructive suggestions on how things might be done better, but he’s said nothing substantive except in hindsight, and focussed excessively on trivialities like wallpaper.
    Jeremy Hunt has shown him how it could be done. He has repeatedly made sensible suggestions e.g. we should keep schools open for kids of key workers.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    DougSeal said:

    I need to stay off Twitter


    Time to sack these loons from SAGE.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    A WOMAN who lost her job after tweeting that “male people are not women” has won a landmark employment case.

    The victory for Maya Forstater, who was backed by JK Rowling and SNP MP Joanna Cherry QC, means people with ‘gender critical’ beliefs must not be sacked simply for holding them.

    However, they cannot express them in a way that discriminates against trans people.

    Ms Cherry said the decision should end discrimination against academics, trade unionists and others like herself who had been bullied and threatened because of their beliefs.


    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19362788.maya-forstater-wins-landmark-employment-case-gender-critical-beliefs/

    And on the day Starmer wades in on the other side of the debate.....
    Did he ?
    The tribunal decision seems pretty uncontroversial to me. Has Starmer ever even hinted that it's OK to sack someone simply for holding such beliefs ?
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337
    TOPPING said:


    I am sure it is very dispiriting for SKS. SKS can see Johnson is a rogue, as we all can.

    But, enough of the UK electorate think Johnson is a loveable old rogue.

    It is very obvious SKS is going down to defeat in 2024.

    SKS is MORE wooden and accident-prone than Ed Miliband. (Even some of the accidents are the same -- remember when Ed Miliband could not name the SLAB leader).

    How come Labour carries on making the same mistakes again and again?

    Presumably we are due for Corbyn Mark II, after SKS has resigned at 3.00 am on Friday 3rd May 2024.

    Doesn't matter that he's wooden. It matters that he has not opposed the government in any vote in parliament over the past 15 months.

    Why would anyone vote for an opposition that has supported the government at every turn during one of the most important periods of post-war history? Even Jezza realised that an opposition should oppose.

    And national emergency my arse. Of course it was an extreme time but we weren't at war.
    Most lawyers are not leaders, second in commands perhaps. Barristers who are leaders are an even rarer breed.

    Opposing would have involved taking a different view to government and selling it. All Labour has to said, "they should have done the same things, but harder, earlier and for longer". Doing something else would have involved political skill and leadership. It is not obvious that Starmer, or indeed the people around him, have the mental mindmap to do that.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited June 2021
    DougSeal said:

    I need to stay off Twitter


    I bet the government are regretting ever having her anywhere near a SAGE committee. She literally does the meeting, then goes on the media and says its wrong...and magically stuff gets leaked.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    DougSeal said:

    One for the accepted wisdom to chew over..,


    It was 49:41 back in October so not much has shifted either way. I think it will have positively influenced the next generation of kids but should probably be substituted off after the euros and brought out only occasionally for guest appearances from then on.
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337

    DougSeal said:

    I need to stay off Twitter


    I bet the government are regretting ever having her anywhere near a SAGE committee.
    She can fuck off to North Korea and stay there.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Not sure this will help Starmer's ratings:

    https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549?s=20

    He has a strange way of talking to the camera in monologues, seems to over emphasise every 8th or 9th word . Doubt he speaks that way in real life.

    That interview he did with Ch4 before the locals was really weird. It was like Ed Miliband +++
    Yes, I’ve never thought he seemed much different to Ed stylistically. Awkward, and not good at faking it. If May had faced either, Labour could have won I suppose. But Boris vs Sir Keir is no contest with the public

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    One for the accepted wisdom to chew over..,


    More racists in Scotland than England?
    Can't be true. TUD told us that the racists are all English.
    I think he'll claim that 42% of Scots are Rangers fans.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    I need to stay off Twitter


    I bet the government are regretting ever having her anywhere near a SAGE committee.
    Does she want to abolish Strictly etc? I mean I wish that these people would explain the practicalities of what they are suggesting. On the C5 interview she said that it would become like "wearing a seatbelt or picking up after your dog".
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    One for the accepted wisdom to chew over..,


    Interesting that there’s less support in Scotland than England, but very much split as we have discussed on here.

    Of more concern, will be the split among those who actually attend the matches.
    It upsets @Theuniondivvie 's "Scots nice, English nasty" narrative slightly given how close the two figures are. Probably weren't true Scots answering the question
    Thanks for the rent free accommodation.
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337
    Pulpstar said:

    I might yet vote for Stormer, on a purely objective basis of running the country he may well do a better job than Boris. He's got all the appeal of a rather dull spreadsheet though.

    A Lotus 123 politican, perhaps? Popular once, now with his future behind him?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    @Malmesbury spot on, but politics isn't always logical.

    For example, if one or two young people die in August as a result then the salience of that will be far higher than if hundreds of older people are dying daily, and burying it as a result, and therefore there will be a higher "shock" factor with political consequences.

    People get far more upset by a gut-wrenching personal tragedy than a statistic.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    TOPPING said:

    When I saw that Keir was introducing self-ID for trans yesterday, my heart sank.

    In what possible universe is this a good position to stake out during a key by-election.

    The government is fighting a culture war, and winning.

    Keir is an idiot. He must stand down immediately after Batley & Spen which is increasingly looking like a loss (I previously had it as a win).

    Where did you see this?
    https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549?s=20
    Interesting. Not having the tables in front of me are trans people really "one of the most discriminated against" in the UK?

    I suppose if the proportion of trans people who are discriminated against is higher that the proportion of other minorities then perhaps. Who has the stats?

    I mean of course one trans person discriminated against is one too much but what a strange thing for SKS to say.
    Impolitic perhaps, but not strange, since it's quite likely true.

    You won't find any 'tables' since for reasons which ought to be obvious, it's not a group easy for statisticians to identify even if it were a priority for them, which it hasn't been.

    Even the government's own publications suggest as much.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/721642/GEO-LGBT-factsheet.pdf
    How many trans people are there?
    We don’t know. No robust data on the UK trans population exists. We tentatively estimate that there are approximately 200,000-500,000 trans people in the UK. The Office for National Statistics is researching whether and how to develop a population estimate.
    Facts and Figures
    41% of trans men and trans women responding to
    a Stonewall survey said they had experienced a hate crime or incident because of their gender identity in the last 12 months. They also found that 25% of trans people had experienced homelessness at some point in their lives. Our national LGBT survey found similar results, with 67% of trans respondents saying they had avoided being open about their gender identity for fear of a negative reaction from others...
    Interesting. Thanks.
    No prob.
    The most damaging form of such discrimination, and it's far from uncommon, is when it comes from those individuals' own families. Which is what accounts for that homelessness figure.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited June 2021
    Nigelb said:

    A WOMAN who lost her job after tweeting that “male people are not women” has won a landmark employment case.

    The victory for Maya Forstater, who was backed by JK Rowling and SNP MP Joanna Cherry QC, means people with ‘gender critical’ beliefs must not be sacked simply for holding them.

    However, they cannot express them in a way that discriminates against trans people.

    Ms Cherry said the decision should end discrimination against academics, trade unionists and others like herself who had been bullied and threatened because of their beliefs.


    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19362788.maya-forstater-wins-landmark-employment-case-gender-critical-beliefs/

    And on the day Starmer wades in on the other side of the debate.....
    Did he ?
    The tribunal decision seems pretty uncontroversial to me. Has Starmer ever even hinted that it's OK to sack someone simply for holding such beliefs ?
    We are talking about self identication, this lady is very strongly on one side of the argument and he has just popped up backing the other side. The absolute specifics of the case are slightly irreverent to that.

    "She believes trans women holding certificates that recognise their transgender identity cannot describe themselves as women."

    BBC News - Maya Forstater: Woman wins tribunal appeal over transgender tweet
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57426579
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Nigelb said:

    A WOMAN who lost her job after tweeting that “male people are not women” has won a landmark employment case.

    The victory for Maya Forstater, who was backed by JK Rowling and SNP MP Joanna Cherry QC, means people with ‘gender critical’ beliefs must not be sacked simply for holding them.

    However, they cannot express them in a way that discriminates against trans people.

    Ms Cherry said the decision should end discrimination against academics, trade unionists and others like herself who had been bullied and threatened because of their beliefs.


    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19362788.maya-forstater-wins-landmark-employment-case-gender-critical-beliefs/

    And on the day Starmer wades in on the other side of the debate.....
    Did he ?
    The tribunal decision seems pretty uncontroversial to me. Has Starmer ever even hinted that it's OK to sack someone simply for holding such beliefs ?
    No, but that shouldn't stop Urquhart from telling you otherwise, and don't forget it's not Starmer, it's Brittas
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114
    edited June 2021

    DougSeal said:

    I need to stay off Twitter


    Time to sack these loons from SAGE.

    Actually sacking one or two pour encourger les autres might not be a bad idea....
This discussion has been closed.