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As UK COVID deaths drop to zero the front page of tomorrow’s Daily Mail – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,047
    edited June 2021

    MaxPB said:

    Also this zero deaths day has come with perfect timing as it's completely derailed all of the zero COVID bullshit from the last few days and made them all look ridiculous. Loads of people had stopped paying attention to the detailed numbers but this evening there was loads of chat in the family WhatsApp about 0 deaths and that the scientists have their own agenda and want to keep everyone locked away. Listening to the scientists people seem to have assumed the situation is really bad with loads of people still dying but this has completely shattered the illusion the scientists were trying to create that we're "on a knife edge" etc...

    The zero covidians will be shifting the goal posts....they are the inverse of the likes of Alister Haimes.
    The new target is between minus 10 and minus 100 deaths. If we can't meet that target, it's only right to keep the lockdown going.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,035
    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    21 June: partial lockdown relief

    EG in pubs: bar service will be allowed and no social restrictions BUT track and trace will remain, no standing or seating by the bar, masks required when ordering at the bar and when moving around the pub.

    Similar rules in restaurants, indoor places like cinemas etc.

    Prudent sensible provisions.

    That's not good enough, sitting at the bar and standing in the pub are part of being in a pub. Of all people I thought you'd realise it!

    End all restrictions on June 21st. No half measures that the zero COVID c***s will turn into permanent "low cost" interventions like mask wearing. People are free to wear them but it should be a personal choice from June 21st onwards.
    I’m on holiday this week and the mask-on, mask-off nonsense is driving me bonkers. I have lost six or seven masks in three days! I look forward to the day when the mask mandate ends, as I am simply too absent-minded to manage the bloody things. And they are really uncomfortable in warm weather.
    I'm sick of having to plan evenings out and book everything in advance and get to the next place within 15 minutes of the booking time and all of that crap. There's no more spontaneity. We can't just decide to go to the pub or to a restaurant and stay for an indefinite period of time. Life is now made up of two hour blocks.
    You have to book to go to the pub?
    Isn't happening up here.
    Pub not full, rock up.
    Pub full. Queue. More likely find pub not full.
    The pubs that my wife and I like to go to are always packed and now only take bookings. The manager said that they'd need for social distancing to be canned to remove that restriction.
    OK fair enough. Was genuinely unaware this was still a thing. Knew it happened shortly after re opening. No evidence of it in the Northeast.
    Maybe I don't go where the in crowd go.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,015
    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    21 June: partial lockdown relief

    EG in pubs: bar service will be allowed and no social restrictions BUT track and trace will remain, no standing or seating by the bar, masks required when ordering at the bar and when moving around the pub.

    Similar rules in restaurants, indoor places like cinemas etc.

    Prudent sensible provisions.

    That's not good enough, sitting at the bar and standing in the pub are part of being in a pub. Of all people I thought you'd realise it!

    End all restrictions on June 21st. No half measures that the zero COVID c***s will turn into permanent "low cost" interventions like mask wearing. People are free to wear them but it should be a personal choice from June 21st onwards.
    I’m on holiday this week and the mask-on, mask-off nonsense is driving me bonkers. I have lost six or seven masks in three days! I look forward to the day when the mask mandate ends, as I am simply too absent-minded to manage the bloody things. And they are really uncomfortable in warm weather.
    I'm sick of having to plan evenings out and book everything in advance and get to the next place within 15 minutes of the booking time and all of that crap. There's no more spontaneity. We can't just decide to go to the pub or to a restaurant and stay for an indefinite period of time. Life is now made up of two hour blocks.
    You have to book to go to the pub?
    Isn't happening up here.
    Pub not full, rock up.
    Pub full. Queue. More likely find pub not full.
    The pubs that my wife and I like to go to are always packed and now only take bookings. The manager said that they'd need for social distancing to be canned to remove that restriction.
    OK fair enough. Was genuinely unaware this was still a thing. Knew it happened shortly after re opening. No evidence of it in the Northeast.
    Maybe I don't go where the in crowd go.
    In Havering they book 60% of tables and leave the rest to first come, first served on the night
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,035
    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    21 June: partial lockdown relief

    EG in pubs: bar service will be allowed and no social restrictions BUT track and trace will remain, no standing or seating by the bar, masks required when ordering at the bar and when moving around the pub.

    Similar rules in restaurants, indoor places like cinemas etc.

    Prudent sensible provisions.

    That's not good enough, sitting at the bar and standing in the pub are part of being in a pub. Of all people I thought you'd realise it!

    End all restrictions on June 21st. No half measures that the zero COVID c***s will turn into permanent "low cost" interventions like mask wearing. People are free to wear them but it should be a personal choice from June 21st onwards.
    I’m on holiday this week and the mask-on, mask-off nonsense is driving me bonkers. I have lost six or seven masks in three days! I look forward to the day when the mask mandate ends, as I am simply too absent-minded to manage the bloody things. And they are really uncomfortable in warm weather.
    I'm sick of having to plan evenings out and book everything in advance and get to the next place within 15 minutes of the booking time and all of that crap. There's no more spontaneity. We can't just decide to go to the pub or to a restaurant and stay for an indefinite period of time. Life is now made up of two hour blocks.
    You have to book to go to the pub?
    Isn't happening up here.
    Pub not full, rock up.
    Pub full. Queue. More likely find pub not full.
    The pubs that my wife and I like to go to are always packed and now only take bookings. The manager said that they'd need for social distancing to be canned to remove that restriction.
    OK fair enough. Was genuinely unaware this was still a thing. Knew it happened shortly after re opening. No evidence of it in the Northeast.
    Maybe I don't go where the in crowd go.
    In Havering they book 60% of tables and leave the rest to first come, first served on the night
    OK. Maybe some of the punters have pre booked. I am famously unobservant.
    But you don't have to book if you are unconcerned where you drink.
    I am also rather unfussy. Won't queue, just go somewhere less popular.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,047
    O/T

    Are the cricket highlights going to be on a FreeView channel tomorrow? I've had a quick search but can't find anything.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,361
    Brom said:

    Did anybody actually watch the old Starmer interview?

    No, and that’s the problem. It’ll do only about 2 million viewers, mostly politically engaged who aren’t swing voters. I think because he’s so dull a lot of people wouldn’t tune in anyway.

    When he’s got to turn on the charisma is prior to a general election when millions more people consider their vote and might dip into a bit more politics than usual.
    I expect the audience share will be far greater when he interviewed Gemma Collins or Colleen Nolan than SKS..
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,604
    I mean. WHAT OBAMA SAID
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,300
    Leon said:

    I mean. WHAT OBAMA SAID

    Have you been on the grape juice again?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,300
    Great video from Wendover...

    Why There are Now So Many Shortages (It's Not COVID)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1JlYZQG3lI
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,604

    MaxPB said:

    21 June: partial lockdown relief

    EG in pubs: bar service will be allowed and no social restrictions BUT track and trace will remain, no standing or seating by the bar, masks required when ordering at the bar and when moving around the pub.

    Similar rules in restaurants, indoor places like cinemas etc.

    Prudent sensible provisions.

    That's not good enough, sitting at the bar and standing in the pub are part of being in a pub. Of all people I thought you'd realise it!

    End all restrictions on June 21st. No half measures that the zero COVID c***s will turn into permanent "low cost" interventions like mask wearing. People are free to wear them but it should be a personal choice from June 21st onwards.
    I’m on holiday this week and the mask-on, mask-off nonsense is driving me bonkers. I have lost six or seven masks in three days! I look forward to the day when the mask mandate ends, as I am simply too absent-minded to manage the bloody things. And they are really uncomfortable in warm weather.
    Get a gaiter. They’re brilliant. They look cool in all weathers. Slip it over your mouth and nose for shops


    https://www.icebreaker.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-IB-UK-Site/en_GB/Product-Show
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,604

    Leon said:

    I mean. WHAT OBAMA SAID

    Have you been on the grape juice again?
    Did you see what he said?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,300
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I mean. WHAT OBAMA SAID

    Have you been on the grape juice again?
    Did you see what he said?
    About new religions if little green men exist?
  • Options
    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    21 June: partial lockdown relief

    EG in pubs: bar service will be allowed and no social restrictions BUT track and trace will remain, no standing or seating by the bar, masks required when ordering at the bar and when moving around the pub.

    Similar rules in restaurants, indoor places like cinemas etc.

    Prudent sensible provisions.

    That's not good enough, sitting at the bar and standing in the pub are part of being in a pub. Of all people I thought you'd realise it!

    End all restrictions on June 21st. No half measures that the zero COVID c***s will turn into permanent "low cost" interventions like mask wearing. People are free to wear them but it should be a personal choice from June 21st onwards.
    I’m on holiday this week and the mask-on, mask-off nonsense is driving me bonkers. I have lost six or seven masks in three days! I look forward to the day when the mask mandate ends, as I am simply too absent-minded to manage the bloody things. And they are really uncomfortable in warm weather.
    I'm sick of having to plan evenings out and book everything in advance and get to the next place within 15 minutes of the booking time and all of that crap. There's no more spontaneity. We can't just decide to go to the pub or to a restaurant and stay for an indefinite period of time. Life is now made up of two hour blocks.
    You have to book to go to the pub?
    Isn't happening up here.
    Pub not full, rock up.
    Pub full. Queue. More likely find pub not full.
    The pubs that my wife and I like to go to are always packed and now only take bookings. The manager said that they'd need for social distancing to be canned to remove that restriction.
    OK fair enough. Was genuinely unaware this was still a thing. Knew it happened shortly after re opening. No evidence of it in the Northeast.
    Maybe I don't go where the in crowd go.
    In Havering they book 60% of tables and leave the rest to first come, first served on the night
    That’s quite canny actually.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,604

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I mean. WHAT OBAMA SAID

    Have you been on the grape juice again?
    Did you see what he said?
    About new religions if little green men exist?
    Yes. No way he’d say all this - to the New York Times - unless he felt something big was trundling in our direction. Buckle up
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,300
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I mean. WHAT OBAMA SAID

    Have you been on the grape juice again?
    Did you see what he said?
    About new religions if little green men exist?
    Yes. No way he’d say all this - to the New York Times - unless he felt something big was trundling in our direction. Buckle up
    Sounds like i better get plenty of grape juice in then....
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,047

    21 June: partial lockdown relief

    EG in pubs: bar service will be allowed and no social restrictions BUT track and trace will remain, no standing or seating by the bar, masks required when ordering at the bar and when moving around the pub.

    Similar rules in restaurants, indoor places like cinemas etc.

    Prudent sensible provisions.

    I was hoping to see the back of all of those restrictions on 21st June.
  • Options
    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I mean. WHAT OBAMA SAID

    Have you been on the grape juice again?
    Did you see what he said?
    About new religions if little green men exist?
    Yes. No way he’d say all this - to the New York Times - unless he felt something big was trundling in our direction. Buckle up
    Are some people on social media enjoying their exploiting of the poor media literacy skills of others, such as being able to identify misinformation, or is this stuff, pushing the line governments hiding evidence that aliens have visited earth [or insert anything] just harmless fun?

    Is it really wrong and harmful to indulge in such pastime of conspiracy theories ? Are there social consequences? Could conspiracy theories undermine democracy? Undermine internal relations in a country or internationally? If it’s health base conspiracy for example, will it lead to deaths? Undermine trust in authority, where trust is needed?

    Does it all work on basis it can’t be proved, but damn hard to utterly disprove too, that is actually part of an absolutist anti-governmentalism agenda to undermine a regulatory state and credentialed experts, leading us to an undemocratic and elitist future?

    You, Flint Knob, are pushing two simultaneously - UFO conspiracy - China Virus conspiracy. You do it like you hold all the facts, bare assertions, so it’s open and shut case. Though you obviously haven’t heard the Scientists playing with COVID in the lab used to meet children in subterranean room of a sushi restaurant, in their private life.

    Ask yourself, which of the two books you are going to write next, what do people want to read and which gets Hollywood interested - how it was actually impossible for Elizabeth l to keep up the secret she was a man throughout her life and after - or that it’s credible a child under care could die from something and be swapped out with a boy from Bisley? we even have a skeleton.

    You appreciate you have a case to answer?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,604
    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    21 June: partial lockdown relief

    EG in pubs: bar service will be allowed and no social restrictions BUT track and trace will remain, no standing or seating by the bar, masks required when ordering at the bar and when moving around the pub.

    Similar rules in restaurants, indoor places like cinemas etc.

    Prudent sensible provisions.

    That's not good enough, sitting at the bar and standing in the pub are part of being in a pub. Of all people I thought you'd realise it!

    End all restrictions on June 21st. No half measures that the zero COVID c***s will turn into permanent "low cost" interventions like mask wearing. People are free to wear them but it should be a personal choice from June 21st onwards.
    I’m on holiday this week and the mask-on, mask-off nonsense is driving me bonkers. I have lost six or seven masks in three days! I look forward to the day when the mask mandate ends, as I am simply too absent-minded to manage the bloody things. And they are really uncomfortable in warm weather.
    I'm sick of having to plan evenings out and book everything in advance and get to the next place within 15 minutes of the booking time and all of that crap. There's no more spontaneity. We can't just decide to go to the pub or to a restaurant and stay for an indefinite period of time. Life is now made up of two hour blocks.
    You have to book to go to the pub?
    Isn't happening up here.
    Pub not full, rock up.
    Pub full. Queue. More likely find pub not full.
    The pubs that my wife and I like to go to are always packed and now only take bookings. The manager said that they'd need for social distancing to be canned to remove that restriction.
    In Camden and primrose hill the pubs are all wide open and you can swing by, any time (outside peak hours - Friday evening etc). I hope the govt ditches all restrictions June 21st. Enuff
  • Options
    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Taz said:

    Brom said:

    Did anybody actually watch the old Starmer interview?

    No, and that’s the problem. It’ll do only about 2 million viewers, mostly politically engaged who aren’t swing voters. I think because he’s so dull a lot of people wouldn’t tune in anyway.

    When he’s got to turn on the charisma is prior to a general election when millions more people consider their vote and might dip into a bit more politics than usual.
    I expect the audience share will be far greater when he interviewed Gemma Collins or Colleen Nolan than SKS..
    Without doubt. It’s half term and the weather is warm, plus the lead-inshow ‘Masked Dancer’ has been underachieving.

    I’m surprised ‘Life Stories’ is still going in some regards, I mean Piers Morgan is bad enough but 10 years ago he had James Corden and Rolf Harris as back to back guests.

    The only fast way of getting the public to give a politician a fresh look en masse is to go on Strictly or Im a Celeb, but that can also help kill careers as shown with Kezia Dugdale.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,604
    gealbhan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I mean. WHAT OBAMA SAID

    Have you been on the grape juice again?
    Did you see what he said?
    About new religions if little green men exist?
    Yes. No way he’d say all this - to the New York Times - unless he felt something big was trundling in our direction. Buckle up
    Are some people on social media enjoying their exploiting of the poor media literacy skills of others, such as being able to identify misinformation, or is this stuff, pushing the line governments hiding evidence that aliens have visited earth [or insert anything] just harmless fun?

    Is it really wrong and harmful to indulge in such pastime of conspiracy theories ? Are there social consequences? Could conspiracy theories undermine democracy? Undermine internal relations in a country or internationally? If it’s health base conspiracy for example, will it lead to deaths? Undermine trust in authority, where trust is needed?

    Does it all work on basis it can’t be proved, but damn hard to utterly disprove too, that is actually part of an absolutist anti-governmentalism agenda to undermine a regulatory state and credentialed experts, leading us to an undemocratic and elitist future?

    You, Flint Knob, are pushing two simultaneously - UFO conspiracy - China Virus conspiracy. You do it like you hold all the facts, bare assertions, so it’s open and shut case. Though you obviously haven’t heard the Scientists playing with COVID in the lab used to meet children in subterranean room of a sushi restaurant, in their private life.

    Ask yourself, which of the two books you are going to write next, what do people want to read and which gets Hollywood interested - how it was actually impossible for Elizabeth l to keep up the secret she was a man throughout her life and after - or that it’s credible a child under care could die from something and be swapped out with a boy from Bisley? we even have a skeleton.

    You appreciate you have a case to answer?
    I shall print and frame this comment and put it on the wall of my loo
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,300
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    21 June: partial lockdown relief

    EG in pubs: bar service will be allowed and no social restrictions BUT track and trace will remain, no standing or seating by the bar, masks required when ordering at the bar and when moving around the pub.

    Similar rules in restaurants, indoor places like cinemas etc.

    Prudent sensible provisions.

    That's not good enough, sitting at the bar and standing in the pub are part of being in a pub. Of all people I thought you'd realise it!

    End all restrictions on June 21st. No half measures that the zero COVID c***s will turn into permanent "low cost" interventions like mask wearing. People are free to wear them but it should be a personal choice from June 21st onwards.
    I’m on holiday this week and the mask-on, mask-off nonsense is driving me bonkers. I have lost six or seven masks in three days! I look forward to the day when the mask mandate ends, as I am simply too absent-minded to manage the bloody things. And they are really uncomfortable in warm weather.
    I'm sick of having to plan evenings out and book everything in advance and get to the next place within 15 minutes of the booking time and all of that crap. There's no more spontaneity. We can't just decide to go to the pub or to a restaurant and stay for an indefinite period of time. Life is now made up of two hour blocks.
    You have to book to go to the pub?
    Isn't happening up here.
    Pub not full, rock up.
    Pub full. Queue. More likely find pub not full.
    The pubs that my wife and I like to go to are always packed and now only take bookings. The manager said that they'd need for social distancing to be canned to remove that restriction.
    In Camden and primrose hill the pubs are all wide open and you can swing by, any time (outside peak hours - Friday evening etc). I hope the govt ditches all restrictions June 21st. Enuff
    Spare a thought for those of us who still have another 2 months until will be fully vaxxed...sigh...
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,375
    dixiedean said:



    OK fair enough. Was genuinely unaware this was still a thing. Knew it happened shortly after re opening. No evidence of it in the Northeast.
    Maybe I don't go where the in crowd go.

    Very variable by area, I think. I visited friends at the weekend (how daring) and we went to the excellent local Indian restuarant in The Avenue, Ealing. Door wide open throughout, big plastic screens separating the widely-spaced tables, all staff wearing masks. Had another Indian meal with a friend in Croydon before heading back, and the staff wore masks but the door was shut and no particular table separation (but also not many people there).
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,604
    edited June 2021

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    21 June: partial lockdown relief

    EG in pubs: bar service will be allowed and no social restrictions BUT track and trace will remain, no standing or seating by the bar, masks required when ordering at the bar and when moving around the pub.

    Similar rules in restaurants, indoor places like cinemas etc.

    Prudent sensible provisions.

    That's not good enough, sitting at the bar and standing in the pub are part of being in a pub. Of all people I thought you'd realise it!

    End all restrictions on June 21st. No half measures that the zero COVID c***s will turn into permanent "low cost" interventions like mask wearing. People are free to wear them but it should be a personal choice from June 21st onwards.
    I’m on holiday this week and the mask-on, mask-off nonsense is driving me bonkers. I have lost six or seven masks in three days! I look forward to the day when the mask mandate ends, as I am simply too absent-minded to manage the bloody things. And they are really uncomfortable in warm weather.
    I'm sick of having to plan evenings out and book everything in advance and get to the next place within 15 minutes of the booking time and all of that crap. There's no more spontaneity. We can't just decide to go to the pub or to a restaurant and stay for an indefinite period of time. Life is now made up of two hour blocks.
    You have to book to go to the pub?
    Isn't happening up here.
    Pub not full, rock up.
    Pub full. Queue. More likely find pub not full.
    The pubs that my wife and I like to go to are always packed and now only take bookings. The manager said that they'd need for social distancing to be canned to remove that restriction.
    In Camden and primrose hill the pubs are all wide open and you can swing by, any time (outside peak hours - Friday evening etc). I hope the govt ditches all restrictions June 21st. Enuff
    Spare a thought for those of us who still have another 2 months until will be fully vaxxed...sigh...
    Aren’t you 40-50? And already single jabbed? Your risk is minimal already.

    If you’re under 40 it’s tiny. Forgive me if I’ve got this wrong
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,375
    A propos of nothing, a 1-minute video about charity wills that a 70-year-old friend put up:

    https://youtu.be/pnjEthFzHOk

    Thought some of you might like it. Not political.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,300
    edited June 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    21 June: partial lockdown relief

    EG in pubs: bar service will be allowed and no social restrictions BUT track and trace will remain, no standing or seating by the bar, masks required when ordering at the bar and when moving around the pub.

    Similar rules in restaurants, indoor places like cinemas etc.

    Prudent sensible provisions.

    That's not good enough, sitting at the bar and standing in the pub are part of being in a pub. Of all people I thought you'd realise it!

    End all restrictions on June 21st. No half measures that the zero COVID c***s will turn into permanent "low cost" interventions like mask wearing. People are free to wear them but it should be a personal choice from June 21st onwards.
    I’m on holiday this week and the mask-on, mask-off nonsense is driving me bonkers. I have lost six or seven masks in three days! I look forward to the day when the mask mandate ends, as I am simply too absent-minded to manage the bloody things. And they are really uncomfortable in warm weather.
    I'm sick of having to plan evenings out and book everything in advance and get to the next place within 15 minutes of the booking time and all of that crap. There's no more spontaneity. We can't just decide to go to the pub or to a restaurant and stay for an indefinite period of time. Life is now made up of two hour blocks.
    You have to book to go to the pub?
    Isn't happening up here.
    Pub not full, rock up.
    Pub full. Queue. More likely find pub not full.
    The pubs that my wife and I like to go to are always packed and now only take bookings. The manager said that they'd need for social distancing to be canned to remove that restriction.
    In Camden and primrose hill the pubs are all wide open and you can swing by, any time (outside peak hours - Friday evening etc). I hope the govt ditches all restrictions June 21st. Enuff
    Spare a thought for those of us who still have another 2 months until will be fully vaxxed...sigh...
    Aren’t you 40-50? And already single jabbed? Your risk is minimal already.

    If you’re under 40 it’s tiny. Forgive me if I’ve got this wrong
    I am low risk and had one jab (which was the Skynet one, so high protection from first jab), but still giving crowded indoor locations a swerve until had the 2nd one.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,300
    edited June 2021
    BBC News - Covid-19: Tutoring sessions in £1.4bn catch-up school plan
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57320450

    No extended school day...teachers will be happy. Looks like the government will be outsourcing the tutoring.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,592

    A propos of nothing, a 1-minute video about charity wills that a 70-year-old friend put up:

    https://youtu.be/pnjEthFzHOk

    Thought some of you might like it. Not political.

    Dated 2015 – is that the right one? Timely anyway, as I'm contemplating writing a will soon, before it's too late.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,047
    O/T

    Cricket highlights will be on BBC TV apparently.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,592
    UFOs – what happened to that London kid from a few years back who hacked into the Pentagon to see what they were covering up about aliens?
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,047
    Any news from New Mexico? Maybe polls close at 2am UK time.
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,319
    edited June 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    Cricket highlights will be on BBC TV apparently.

    Just as they were last year.

    BBC has 5 year contract with the ECB from 2020 to 2024 inclusive for:

    - Highlights of all home England Tests, ODIs and T20s
    - Two live T20s

    Plus the Hundred - 10 live games.

    Plus Womens Hundred - 8 live games
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,300
    edited June 2021
    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
    In the context of a national Tory lead of 7% - 10% it was still ok.Labour's margin over the Tories at the 1981 GLC elections was narrower - ie when the Tories under Horace Cutler were defeated.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,300
    edited June 2021
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
    In the context of a national Tory lead of 7% - 10% it was still ok.Labour's margin over the Tories at the 1981 GLC elections was narrower - ie when the Tories under Horace Cutler were defeated.
    Again the world has changed...it isn't 1981...London is a different place and we are post-Brexit, which currently is a big anchor on the Tories in places like London from some traditional voting blocks i.e. middle / upper middle class people who voted Remain....

    And as you say in the context of a Tory 10% lead....that's poor in itself, which was the original point, where I was saying polling is bad, and the real world test of that was the local election were poor for Labour (outside of a couple of uni towns and some personal mandates for popular candidates).

    It might even be worse than 10%, Labour could be sub 30%. I don't think they are, but we have had polls with that shockingly low numbers. The old adage in the recent past was take the worse Labour number and the best Tory number as a reasonable estimate of the real situation, then we are talking 15%+.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,679
    edited June 2021
    New Mexico CD1 Special Election

    District includes:
    >most of Bernalillo County (appox 75% of district) including bulk of City of Albuquerque
    > part of Sandoval County, in particular suburban Rio Rancho
    > all of rural, desert Torrance County
    > part of Valencia County, esp Los Lunas
    > small section of Santa Fe County with few people

    As of Jan 2021, registration breakdown, total = 466k (source NM Secretary of State)
    > Democratic 218k (48%)
    > Republican 132k (28%)
    > Libertarian 5k (1%)
    > other (mostly non-party) 111k (24%)

    My guess is that earliest results reported will be from early voting, which appears was dominated by Democrats. Note that total special election early vote = 93k, which is 20% of registered voters and obviously much higher % of final turnout.

    May take some time for rest of the vote to come in tonight.

    Addendum - turns out more current info re: voter reg is available, if you want to see it check out
    https://www.sos.state.nm.us/2021-voter-registration-data/
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,047
    Thanks SeaShantyIrish2 for the NM-1 information.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited June 2021

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
    In the context of a national Tory lead of 7% - 10% it was still ok.Labour's margin over the Tories at the 1981 GLC elections was narrower - ie when the Tories under Horace Cutler were defeated.
    Again the world has changed...it isn't 1981...London is a different place and we are post-Brexit, which currently is a big anchor on the Tories in places like London from some traditional voting blocks i.e. middle / upper middle class people who voted Remain....

    And as you say in the context of a Tory 10% lead....that's poor in itself, which was the original point, where I was saying polling is bad, and the real world test of that was the local election were poor for Labour (outside of a couple of uni towns and some personal mandates for popular candidates).

    It might even be worse than 10%, Labour could be sub 30%. I don't think they are, but we have had polls with that shockingly low numbers. The old adage in the recent past was take the worse Labour number and the best Tory number as a reasonable estimate of the real situation, then we are talking 15%+.
    Only Yougov has Labour below 30% - a clear House effect matched by a very high Green vote. The latter would struggle to exceed 3% in a GE IMHO.
    Labour did ok in Manchester - Liverpool- West Yorks - Wales - West of England Mayoralty - Peterborough & Cambridge - Kent - Sussex coast - parts of Cornwall. Much as I expected - Scotland rather disappointing for them.
    I was far more disturbed by the loss of a by election which did not need to be called at all - a self-inflicted wound for which Starmer bears responsibility. Should Labour lose Batley& Spen, he should be ousted on the basis that - yet again - the by election has been mistimed.
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,437

    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
    I'm no expert but Sadiq K has had a fairly bumpy year with opponents (unfairly) hammering him on crime, whilst SKS's leadership (dont mention Europe..) probably didnt get the Momentum vote out and the Greens pushed hard. In some ways I think he did ok under the circumstances...makes the next London elections most interesting
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,047
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,437
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
    In the context of a national Tory lead of 7% - 10% it was still ok.Labour's margin over the Tories at the 1981 GLC elections was narrower - ie when the Tories under Horace Cutler were defeated.
    Again the world has changed...it isn't 1981...London is a different place and we are post-Brexit, which currently is a big anchor on the Tories in places like London from some traditional voting blocks i.e. middle / upper middle class people who voted Remain....

    And as you say in the context of a Tory 10% lead....that's poor in itself, which was the original point, where I was saying polling is bad, and the real world test of that was the local election were poor for Labour (outside of a couple of uni towns and some personal mandates for popular candidates).

    It might even be worse than 10%, Labour could be sub 30%. I don't think they are, but we have had polls with that shockingly low numbers. The old adage in the recent past was take the worse Labour number and the best Tory number as a reasonable estimate of the real situation, then we are talking 15%+.
    Only Yougov has Labour below 30% - a clear House effect matched by a very high Green vote. The latter would struggle to exceed 3% in a GE IMHO.
    Labour did ok in Manchester - Liverpool- West Yorks - Wales - West of England Mayoralty - Peterborough & Cambridge - Kent - Sussex coast - parts of Cornwall. Much as I expected - Scotland rather disappointing for them.
    I was far more disturbed by the loss of a by election which did not need to be called at all - a self-inflicted wound for which Starmer bears responsibility. Should Labour lose Batley& Spen, he should be ousted on the basis that - yet again - the by election has been mistimed.
    sexual allegations against the former MP.... its a no brainer but to ditch him.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,047

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
    In the context of a national Tory lead of 7% - 10% it was still ok.Labour's margin over the Tories at the 1981 GLC elections was narrower - ie when the Tories under Horace Cutler were defeated.
    Again the world has changed...it isn't 1981...London is a different place and we are post-Brexit, which currently is a big anchor on the Tories in places like London from some traditional voting blocks i.e. middle / upper middle class people who voted Remain....

    And as you say in the context of a Tory 10% lead....that's poor in itself, which was the original point, where I was saying polling is bad, and the real world test of that was the local election were poor for Labour (outside of a couple of uni towns and some personal mandates for popular candidates).

    It might even be worse than 10%, Labour could be sub 30%. I don't think they are, but we have had polls with that shockingly low numbers. The old adage in the recent past was take the worse Labour number and the best Tory number as a reasonable estimate of the real situation, then we are talking 15%+.
    It would be interesting to know what percentage of the London population today were living in London in 1981, and compare that to the figure for the rest of the country. I have no idea what the results would be but they'd probably be interesting.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,679
    Andy_JS said:
    Interesting. Usually NYT is behind paywall, but sometimes they make exception for election returns. It will update regularly based on AP feed.

    Saw somewhere that vote counting (except for odds & ends) SHOULD be finished by 10pm Mountain Time. But do NOT hold your breath!

    The election will likely be decided in the mostly Anglo, middle-class neighborhoods up on the heights. It is NOT a coincidence that both the Democratic and Republican nominees are state representatives from this area.

    While we wait for numbers, check out this clip from 2019 Albuquerque Balloon Festival

    Hot air balloons finally rise at New Mexico fiesta
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQwTIhxBuSQ
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
    In the context of a national Tory lead of 7% - 10% it was still ok.Labour's margin over the Tories at the 1981 GLC elections was narrower - ie when the Tories under Horace Cutler were defeated.
    Again the world has changed...it isn't 1981...London is a different place and we are post-Brexit, which currently is a big anchor on the Tories in places like London from some traditional voting blocks i.e. middle / upper middle class people who voted Remain....

    And as you say in the context of a Tory 10% lead....that's poor in itself, which was the original point, where I was saying polling is bad, and the real world test of that was the local election were poor for Labour (outside of a couple of uni towns and some personal mandates for popular candidates).

    It might even be worse than 10%, Labour could be sub 30%. I don't think they are, but we have had polls with that shockingly low numbers. The old adage in the recent past was take the worse Labour number and the best Tory number as a reasonable estimate of the real situation, then we are talking 15%+.
    Only Yougov has Labour below 30% - a clear House effect matched by a very high Green vote. The latter would struggle to exceed 3% in a GE IMHO.
    Labour did ok in Manchester - Liverpool- West Yorks - Wales - West of England Mayoralty - Peterborough & Cambridge - Kent - Sussex coast - parts of Cornwall. Much as I expected - Scotland rather disappointing for them.
    I was far more disturbed by the loss of a by election which did not need to be called at all - a self-inflicted wound for which Starmer bears responsibility. Should Labour lose Batley& Spen, he should be ousted on the basis that - yet again - the by election has been mistimed.
    sexual allegations against the former MP.... its a no brainer but to ditch him.
    That misses the point. Labour should certainly have disowned him by removing the Whip - leaving him to sit as an independent. He was persuaded to resign his seat , though he could have ignored what the leadership said to him. The allegations against him are not obviously more serious than those made against the Tory MP for Delyn- yet we see no immediate sign of a by election there. Hartlepool could easily have been put off until the Autumn - and possibly into 2022. By that time the political scene could look more challenging for the Tories. Starmer showed serious lack of 'nous' in how he dealt with it. Holding Batley&Spen as early as July 1st is also high risk, and makes me fear that Starmer lacks the political instincts and antennae needed of a leader. He is no Harold Wilson.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,047
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
    In the context of a national Tory lead of 7% - 10% it was still ok.Labour's margin over the Tories at the 1981 GLC elections was narrower - ie when the Tories under Horace Cutler were defeated.
    Again the world has changed...it isn't 1981...London is a different place and we are post-Brexit, which currently is a big anchor on the Tories in places like London from some traditional voting blocks i.e. middle / upper middle class people who voted Remain....

    And as you say in the context of a Tory 10% lead....that's poor in itself, which was the original point, where I was saying polling is bad, and the real world test of that was the local election were poor for Labour (outside of a couple of uni towns and some personal mandates for popular candidates).

    It might even be worse than 10%, Labour could be sub 30%. I don't think they are, but we have had polls with that shockingly low numbers. The old adage in the recent past was take the worse Labour number and the best Tory number as a reasonable estimate of the real situation, then we are talking 15%+.
    Only Yougov has Labour below 30% - a clear House effect matched by a very high Green vote. The latter would struggle to exceed 3% in a GE IMHO.
    Labour did ok in Manchester - Liverpool- West Yorks - Wales - West of England Mayoralty - Peterborough & Cambridge - Kent - Sussex coast - parts of Cornwall. Much as I expected - Scotland rather disappointing for them.
    I was far more disturbed by the loss of a by election which did not need to be called at all - a self-inflicted wound for which Starmer bears responsibility. Should Labour lose Batley& Spen, he should be ousted on the basis that - yet again - the by election has been mistimed.
    sexual allegations against the former MP.... its a no brainer but to ditch him.
    That misses the point. Labour should certainly have disowned him by removing the Whip - leaving him to sit as an independent. He was persuaded to resign his seat , though he could have ignored what the leadership said to him. The allegations against him are not obviously more serious than those made against the Tory MP for Delyn- yet we see no immediate sign of a by election there. Hartlepool could easily have been put off until the Autumn - and possibly into 2022. By that time the political scene could look more challenging for the Tories. Starmer showed serious lack of 'nous' in how he dealt with it. Holding Batley&Spen as early as July 1st is also high risk, and makes me fear that Starmer lacks the political instincts and antennae needed of a leader. He is no Harold Wilson.
    I don't understand why he decided to hold them on the dates he has. Maybe he thought it was better to get them over and done with.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,300
    edited June 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
    In the context of a national Tory lead of 7% - 10% it was still ok.Labour's margin over the Tories at the 1981 GLC elections was narrower - ie when the Tories under Horace Cutler were defeated.
    Again the world has changed...it isn't 1981...London is a different place and we are post-Brexit, which currently is a big anchor on the Tories in places like London from some traditional voting blocks i.e. middle / upper middle class people who voted Remain....

    And as you say in the context of a Tory 10% lead....that's poor in itself, which was the original point, where I was saying polling is bad, and the real world test of that was the local election were poor for Labour (outside of a couple of uni towns and some personal mandates for popular candidates).

    It might even be worse than 10%, Labour could be sub 30%. I don't think they are, but we have had polls with that shockingly low numbers. The old adage in the recent past was take the worse Labour number and the best Tory number as a reasonable estimate of the real situation, then we are talking 15%+.
    It would be interesting to know what percentage of the London population today were living in London in 1981, and compare that to the figure for the rest of the country. I have no idea what the results would be but they'd probably be interesting.
    London is now over 40% ethnic minority. 1990 it was ~20%. So i would guess 1981, even less than 20%. Plus huge number of the likes of eastern European (white) immigrants in London that wouldn't have been there in 1981.

    Its population has been totally transformed in the past 30-40 years.

    There was a report a few weeks showing the British migration in, and then out, of London, where they headed when they left. i didn't look at the numbers, but I think that is also an established significant pattern now, move to London in your 20s, leave in your 40s. Which means constant turn over.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,018
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
    In the context of a national Tory lead of 7% - 10% it was still ok.Labour's margin over the Tories at the 1981 GLC elections was narrower - ie when the Tories under Horace Cutler were defeated.
    Again the world has changed...it isn't 1981...London is a different place and we are post-Brexit, which currently is a big anchor on the Tories in places like London from some traditional voting blocks i.e. middle / upper middle class people who voted Remain....

    And as you say in the context of a Tory 10% lead....that's poor in itself, which was the original point, where I was saying polling is bad, and the real world test of that was the local election were poor for Labour (outside of a couple of uni towns and some personal mandates for popular candidates).

    It might even be worse than 10%, Labour could be sub 30%. I don't think they are, but we have had polls with that shockingly low numbers. The old adage in the recent past was take the worse Labour number and the best Tory number as a reasonable estimate of the real situation, then we are talking 15%+.
    Only Yougov has Labour below 30% - a clear House effect matched by a very high Green vote. The latter would struggle to exceed 3% in a GE IMHO.
    Labour did ok in Manchester - Liverpool- West Yorks - Wales - West of England Mayoralty - Peterborough & Cambridge - Kent - Sussex coast - parts of Cornwall. Much as I expected - Scotland rather disappointing for them.
    I was far more disturbed by the loss of a by election which did not need to be called at all - a self-inflicted wound for which Starmer bears responsibility. Should Labour lose Batley& Spen, he should be ousted on the basis that - yet again - the by election has been mistimed.
    sexual allegations against the former MP.... its a no brainer but to ditch him.
    That misses the point. Labour should certainly have disowned him by removing the Whip - leaving him to sit as an independent. He was persuaded to resign his seat , though he could have ignored what the leadership said to him. The allegations against him are not obviously more serious than those made against the Tory MP for Delyn- yet we see no immediate sign of a by election there. Hartlepool could easily have been put off until the Autumn - and possibly into 2022. By that time the political scene could look more challenging for the Tories. Starmer showed serious lack of 'nous' in how he dealt with it. Holding Batley&Spen as early as July 1st is also high risk, and makes me fear that Starmer lacks the political instincts and antennae needed of a leader. He is no Harold Wilson.
    Aren’t Labour supposed to be better than the Tories? The fact Tories are dishonourable scum is priced in.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,300
    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
    In the context of a national Tory lead of 7% - 10% it was still ok.Labour's margin over the Tories at the 1981 GLC elections was narrower - ie when the Tories under Horace Cutler were defeated.
    Again the world has changed...it isn't 1981...London is a different place and we are post-Brexit, which currently is a big anchor on the Tories in places like London from some traditional voting blocks i.e. middle / upper middle class people who voted Remain....

    And as you say in the context of a Tory 10% lead....that's poor in itself, which was the original point, where I was saying polling is bad, and the real world test of that was the local election were poor for Labour (outside of a couple of uni towns and some personal mandates for popular candidates).

    It might even be worse than 10%, Labour could be sub 30%. I don't think they are, but we have had polls with that shockingly low numbers. The old adage in the recent past was take the worse Labour number and the best Tory number as a reasonable estimate of the real situation, then we are talking 15%+.
    Only Yougov has Labour below 30% - a clear House effect matched by a very high Green vote. The latter would struggle to exceed 3% in a GE IMHO.
    Labour did ok in Manchester - Liverpool- West Yorks - Wales - West of England Mayoralty - Peterborough & Cambridge - Kent - Sussex coast - parts of Cornwall. Much as I expected - Scotland rather disappointing for them.
    I was far more disturbed by the loss of a by election which did not need to be called at all - a self-inflicted wound for which Starmer bears responsibility. Should Labour lose Batley& Spen, he should be ousted on the basis that - yet again - the by election has been mistimed.
    sexual allegations against the former MP.... its a no brainer but to ditch him.
    That misses the point. Labour should certainly have disowned him by removing the Whip - leaving him to sit as an independent. He was persuaded to resign his seat , though he could have ignored what the leadership said to him. The allegations against him are not obviously more serious than those made against the Tory MP for Delyn- yet we see no immediate sign of a by election there. Hartlepool could easily have been put off until the Autumn - and possibly into 2022. By that time the political scene could look more challenging for the Tories. Starmer showed serious lack of 'nous' in how he dealt with it. Holding Batley&Spen as early as July 1st is also high risk, and makes me fear that Starmer lacks the political instincts and antennae needed of a leader. He is no Harold Wilson.
    Aren’t Labour supposed to be better than the Tories? The fact Tories are dishonourable scum is priced in.
    They never even sent me my toasted baby to eat after I voted for them on one occasion.....
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,679
    edited June 2021
    NM CD1 Special Election

    Melanie Stansbury (D) 57.6%
    Mark Moores (R) 38.5%
    Aubrey Dunn (I) 2.7%
    Christopher Manning 1.1%

    Votes above are from Sandoval (65% of pcts plus I think EV), Santa Fe (EV) and Valencia (EV); no votes yet from Bernalillo (the Big Enchilada) or Torrance.

    Valencia has gone heavily for Stansbury, note this part of district is heavily Hispanic. But Valencia mostly in, so not much left there.

    EDIT - Bernalillo just posted a handful of votes, which went for Moores. and lowered Stansbury to 54.7% and him to 41.2% districtwide
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,679
    Melanie Stansbury
    Democrat
    58,983 63.8%
    Mark Moores
    Republican
    30,030 32.5
    Aubrey Dunn
    Independent
    2,375 2.6
    Christopher Manning
    Libertarian
    1,105 1.2

    Total reported
    92,493


    Bernalillo says 68% reported, Sandoval 77%, rest under 1%


  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,047
    "Dave Wasserman
    @Redistrict

    I've seen enough: Melanie Stansbury (D) defeats Mark Moores (R) in #NM01 special election to fill the unexpired term of Deb Haaland (D)."

    https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1399905029524492293
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,679
    EDIT - Looking at county numbers on NYT website, note total ballots counted (excluding the Lib with just 1% districtwide) and with zero from Torrance Co = 92k which is very close to total Early Vote ballots reported.

    So could be that the votes counted so far are all EVs and without poll votes.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,679
    edited June 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    "Dave Wasserman
    @Redistrict

    I've seen enough: Melanie Stansbury (D) defeats Mark Moores (R) in #NM01 special election to fill the unexpired term of Deb Haaland (D)."

    https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1399905029524492293

    If few or no poll votes reported, tad premature maybe. But likely correct in the end.

    EDIT - Torrance just reported small number of votes that went for Moores
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,679
    KRQE-TV - Melanie Stansbury projected winner of CD1 seat

    Democrat Melanie Stansbury is the projected winner of the Congressional District 1 seat. This marks the third special election for a Congressional seat in New Mexico in 24 years. Stansbury will represent New Mexico’s Congressional District 1 in the U.S. House of Representatives through 2022.

  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,437
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
    In the context of a national Tory lead of 7% - 10% it was still ok.Labour's margin over the Tories at the 1981 GLC elections was narrower - ie when the Tories under Horace Cutler were defeated.
    Again the world has changed...it isn't 1981...London is a different place and we are post-Brexit, which currently is a big anchor on the Tories in places like London from some traditional voting blocks i.e. middle / upper middle class people who voted Remain....

    And as you say in the context of a Tory 10% lead....that's poor in itself, which was the original point, where I was saying polling is bad, and the real world test of that was the local election were poor for Labour (outside of a couple of uni towns and some personal mandates for popular candidates).

    It might even be worse than 10%, Labour could be sub 30%. I don't think they are, but we have had polls with that shockingly low numbers. The old adage in the recent past was take the worse Labour number and the best Tory number as a reasonable estimate of the real situation, then we are talking 15%+.
    Only Yougov has Labour below 30% - a clear House effect matched by a very high Green vote. The latter would struggle to exceed 3% in a GE IMHO.
    Labour did ok in Manchester - Liverpool- West Yorks - Wales - West of England Mayoralty - Peterborough & Cambridge - Kent - Sussex coast - parts of Cornwall. Much as I expected - Scotland rather disappointing for them.
    I was far more disturbed by the loss of a by election which did not need to be called at all - a self-inflicted wound for which Starmer bears responsibility. Should Labour lose Batley& Spen, he should be ousted on the basis that - yet again - the by election has been mistimed.
    sexual allegations against the former MP.... its a no brainer but to ditch him.
    That misses the point. Labour should certainly have disowned him by removing the Whip - leaving him to sit as an independent. He was persuaded to resign his seat , though he could have ignored what the leadership said to him. The allegations against him are not obviously more serious than those made against the Tory MP for Delyn- yet we see no immediate sign of a by election there. Hartlepool could easily have been put off until the Autumn - and possibly into 2022. By that time the political scene could look more challenging for the Tories. Starmer showed serious lack of 'nous' in how he dealt with it. Holding Batley&Spen as early as July 1st is also high risk, and makes me fear that Starmer lacks the political instincts and antennae needed of a leader. He is no Harold Wilson.
    I reckon in 6 months time..... Hartlepool will have been forgotten (but will pop up as a byelection factoid every now and again). Its easy to use hindsight wrt to Hartlepool.

    B&S - well thats a different matter entirely, perhaps SKS trusts his subordinates? which is unusual in British political parties.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited June 2021
    Note that I have updated the grpahic to incude a wider selection
    of front pages
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,473
    edited June 2021

    BBC News - Covid-19: Tutoring sessions in £1.4bn catch-up school plan
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57320450

    No extended school day...teachers will be happy. Looks like the government will be outsourcing the tutoring.

    Not sure how effective that will be. A friend of mine has been doing the tutoring and says mostly the children don’t bother turning up.

    They also seem underwhelmed with the idea when people bother to ask them:

    What students really want from school catch-up
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57246697

    Of course the really urgent issue is to decide what the hell happens with next year’s exams. But as OFQUAL are in charge of it and they are (to coin a phrase) as thick as mince and lazy as toads the only thing we can be sure of is that it will be another shambles.
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,437
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    CatMan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer is clearly decent, warm, human being who got where he is through his own efforts overcoming serious problems along the way.

    Doomed as a politician then....
    Well let’s hope not and he done pretty well so far. Party leader and a serious contender for no10 is more than pretty much everyone else achieves in politics.
    You obviously missed the recent polling showing his ratings as bad as any Labour leader (at a comparable time, I believe worse than Jezza) and Labour being 10% back.

    And those local elections...Labour didn't even manage to win control of the London Assembly....Remainistan left leaning London...
    Saying Labour didn't win control of the London Assembly is like saying the Tories didn't win a majority of votes at the last General Election
    Labour's performance in London was very poor. The few places it went well, a couple of uni towns and where there was a big personal mandidate e.g. Burnham.
    The London Mayoral performance was ok - particularly in relation to prevailing party vote shares nationally. Compared with the 2012 result when Johnson narrowly held off Livingstone to narrowly win a second term, it represented a 6.5% Con to Lab swing.
    We were talking about London Assembly..and conparisons to 2012 are mute, the world has changed, we are now post Brexit, Boris / Tories burned loads of bridges.

    But on Mayoral, the useless Shaun Bailey did better for the Tories than last time.... that's piss poor for Labour, whose candidate is a well polished political operator.

    Labour should be smashing it in London, but they don't even control the Assembly.
    In the context of a national Tory lead of 7% - 10% it was still ok.Labour's margin over the Tories at the 1981 GLC elections was narrower - ie when the Tories under Horace Cutler were defeated.
    Again the world has changed...it isn't 1981...London is a different place and we are post-Brexit, which currently is a big anchor on the Tories in places like London from some traditional voting blocks i.e. middle / upper middle class people who voted Remain....

    And as you say in the context of a Tory 10% lead....that's poor in itself, which was the original point, where I was saying polling is bad, and the real world test of that was the local election were poor for Labour (outside of a couple of uni towns and some personal mandates for popular candidates).

    It might even be worse than 10%, Labour could be sub 30%. I don't think they are, but we have had polls with that shockingly low numbers. The old adage in the recent past was take the worse Labour number and the best Tory number as a reasonable estimate of the real situation, then we are talking 15%+.
    Only Yougov has Labour below 30% - a clear House effect matched by a very high Green vote. The latter would struggle to exceed 3% in a GE IMHO.
    Labour did ok in Manchester - Liverpool- West Yorks - Wales - West of England Mayoralty - Peterborough & Cambridge - Kent - Sussex coast - parts of Cornwall. Much as I expected - Scotland rather disappointing for them.
    I was far more disturbed by the loss of a by election which did not need to be called at all - a self-inflicted wound for which Starmer bears responsibility. Should Labour lose Batley& Spen, he should be ousted on the basis that - yet again - the by election has been mistimed.
    sexual allegations against the former MP.... its a no brainer but to ditch him.
    That misses the point. Labour should certainly have disowned him by removing the Whip - leaving him to sit as an independent. He was persuaded to resign his seat , though he could have ignored what the leadership said to him. The allegations against him are not obviously more serious than those made against the Tory MP for Delyn- yet we see no immediate sign of a by election there. Hartlepool could easily have been put off until the Autumn - and possibly into 2022. By that time the political scene could look more challenging for the Tories. Starmer showed serious lack of 'nous' in how he dealt with it. Holding Batley&Spen as early as July 1st is also high risk, and makes me fear that Starmer lacks the political instincts and antennae needed of a leader. He is no Harold Wilson.
    Pressure mounting on the Tory MP for Delyn.....https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-57321468
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,473
    edited June 2021
    FPT
    dixiedean said:

    All is revealed as to why the Tories want rid of Bob Roberts in Delyn.
    Possible second complainant if he won't resign.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57321468.amp

    That is actually a disturbing story. If he behaved towards her as she says, she should complain, regardless of his particular circumstances. If he didn’t, she shouldn’t be saying such things. But in neither case should she be talking to the media in a bid to pressure him to resign without making a formal complaint. That’s not on and actually undermines the credibility of the complaints process.

    The fact that procedures have been messed up so he hasn’t been removed is a different problem.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,971
    Pagan2 said:
    Many of the large tech companies are seriously failing to understand why people object to this stuff. It’s a complete privacy nightmare, by design, with hardware you’ve paid for - and it’s a change in functionality that the customer didn’t ask for, and appears to be forced on them under pain of their expensive hardware becoming a brick.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,971
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    dixiedean said:

    All is revealed as to why the Tories want rid of Bob Roberts in Delyn.
    Possible second complainant if he won't resign.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57321468.amp

    That is actually a disturbing story. If he behaved towards her as she says, she should complain, regardless of his particular circumstances. If he didn’t, she shouldn’t be saying such things. But in neither case should she be talking to the media in a bid to pressure him to resign without making a formal complaint. That’s not on and actually undermines the credibility of the complaints process.

    The fact that procedures have been messed up so he hasn’t been removed is a different problem.
    He likely has grounds for an OFCOM complaint about the BBC. It’s pretty close to blackmail, to say to the media that you’ll make a complaint against a named person unless he resigns from his job.
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,437
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    dixiedean said:

    All is revealed as to why the Tories want rid of Bob Roberts in Delyn.
    Possible second complainant if he won't resign.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57321468.amp

    That is actually a disturbing story. If he behaved towards her as she says, she should complain, regardless of his particular circumstances. If he didn’t, she shouldn’t be saying such things. But in neither case should she be talking to the media in a bid to pressure him to resign without making a formal complaint. That’s not on and actually undermines the credibility of the complaints process.

    The fact that procedures have been messed up so he hasn’t been removed is a different problem.
    He likely has grounds for an OFCOM complaint about the BBC. It’s pretty close to blackmail, to say to the media that you’ll make a complaint against a named person unless he resigns from his job.
    Yes, but even key figures in his own party (JRM) seem to make the argument he should go...so the Beeb is doing more than just hinting at the complaint
  • Options
    I love how The Guardian just couldn't bring itself to lead on the zero deaths news.

    There are some bloody curmudgeonly people around.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Cockney, I raised an eyebrow at the juxtaposition of BBC red button headlines last night.

    "0 deaths" was followed by "Start of the third wave in Scotland".
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,971

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    dixiedean said:

    All is revealed as to why the Tories want rid of Bob Roberts in Delyn.
    Possible second complainant if he won't resign.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57321468.amp

    That is actually a disturbing story. If he behaved towards her as she says, she should complain, regardless of his particular circumstances. If he didn’t, she shouldn’t be saying such things. But in neither case should she be talking to the media in a bid to pressure him to resign without making a formal complaint. That’s not on and actually undermines the credibility of the complaints process.

    The fact that procedures have been messed up so he hasn’t been removed is a different problem.
    He likely has grounds for an OFCOM complaint about the BBC. It’s pretty close to blackmail, to say to the media that you’ll make a complaint against a named person unless he resigns from his job.
    Yes, but even key figures in his own party (JRM) seem to make the argument he should go...so the Beeb is doing more than just hinting at the complaint
    Oh of course, I think he should resign too - but publishing thinly veiled threats against individuals is not what the BBC should be doing, and they should be called out for it.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,473
    edited June 2021

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    dixiedean said:

    All is revealed as to why the Tories want rid of Bob Roberts in Delyn.
    Possible second complainant if he won't resign.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57321468.amp

    That is actually a disturbing story. If he behaved towards her as she says, she should complain, regardless of his particular circumstances. If he didn’t, she shouldn’t be saying such things. But in neither case should she be talking to the media in a bid to pressure him to resign without making a formal complaint. That’s not on and actually undermines the credibility of the complaints process.

    The fact that procedures have been messed up so he hasn’t been removed is a different problem.
    He likely has grounds for an OFCOM complaint about the BBC. It’s pretty close to blackmail, to say to the media that you’ll make a complaint against a named person unless he resigns from his job.
    Yes, but even key figures in his own party (JRM) seem to make the argument he should go...so the Beeb is doing more than just hinting at the complaint
    Yes, but they (the Beeb, that is) should not be. If he’s innocent, which I personally think is unlikely but is the legal situation, they’ve just libelled him. If he is guilty, the way it’s been done means any actual complaint will be dismissed as completely worthless. It will just be described as media whistling.

    They should have told her to stop talking to them and start talking to the police. Have they learned nothing at all from the Cliff Richard case?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,473
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    dixiedean said:

    All is revealed as to why the Tories want rid of Bob Roberts in Delyn.
    Possible second complainant if he won't resign.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57321468.amp

    That is actually a disturbing story. If he behaved towards her as she says, she should complain, regardless of his particular circumstances. If he didn’t, she shouldn’t be saying such things. But in neither case should she be talking to the media in a bid to pressure him to resign without making a formal complaint. That’s not on and actually undermines the credibility of the complaints process.

    The fact that procedures have been messed up so he hasn’t been removed is a different problem.
    He likely has grounds for an OFCOM complaint about the BBC. It’s pretty close to blackmail, to say to the media that you’ll make a complaint against a named person unless he resigns from his job.
    Yes, but even key figures in his own party (JRM) seem to make the argument he should go...so the Beeb is doing more than just hinting at the complaint
    Oh of course, I think he should resign too - but publishing thinly veiled threats against individuals is not what the BBC should be doing, and they should be called out for it.
    If anything, this is likely to make his position more secure. I don’t think the Commons authorities or the police will take kindly to the way this has been done. It looks like they are being pressured to presume guilt which is what’s got them into trouble before.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,245
    Obama:

    “Obama told New York Times columnist Ezra Klein that hopefully aliens could unite humans.

    Obama told Klein he "absolutely" would like to know what exactly are the unidentified objects picked up by military infrared cameras and radar”

    https://www.businessinsider.com/obama-ufo-quote-ezra-klein-interview-senate-report-2021-6
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799
    Succinct summary of the issues in the Terf wars:

    I took screenshots of a legal argument made by Allison Bailey, which beautifully explains the difference between sex & gender.
    I didn't know that under the Gender Recognition Act 2004 only those men with a Gender Recognition Certificate can declare himself lawfully to be a woman.


    https://twitter.com/giddeeaunt/status/1399482206993719296?s=21
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    OT, but only slightly, has anyone in their 30s cancelled and rebooked an earlier 2nd jab? I'm keen but also wary of the cancel button coming before the rebooking options...
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,526
    0700 temperatures this week here down by the sea: Monday 12.5C,Tuesday 15.5C, today 17.5C
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,526

    I love how The Guardian just couldn't bring itself to lead on the zero deaths news.

    There are some bloody curmudgeonly people around.

    Maybe they are actually clever enough to understand the bank holiday effect?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,971
    edited June 2021

    Succinct summary of the issues in the Terf wars:

    I took screenshots of a legal argument made by Allison Bailey, which beautifully explains the difference between sex & gender.
    I didn't know that under the Gender Recognition Act 2004 only those men with a Gender Recognition Certificate can declare himself lawfully to be a woman.


    https://twitter.com/giddeeaunt/status/1399482206993719296?s=21

    There’s a bill going through Congress now to allow men to identify as women in prison, and move to the women’s prison. This already happens in California, with entirely the outcomes you’d have thought might happen.

    https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/male-inmates-in-womens-prisons-11622474215
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I see in the New Mexico special election the Dem candidate won by only 24 points which is *check notes* 8 points higher than the Dems got in November and higher even than the margin Biden won the district by.

    I haven't yet worked out how this shows the Anti-Biden backlash is in full swing and the deep disgust at the socialists in Congress is being manifested by the people but I'll get back to you on that.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,526
    Our new case numbers yesterday were higher than both Italy and Germany’s, which illustrates the good progress now being made in the EU with both vaccination and summer weather.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,473

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Cockney, I raised an eyebrow at the juxtaposition of BBC red button headlines last night.

    "0 deaths" was followed by "Start of the third wave in Scotland".

    Indeed.

    The media have a lot to answer for. Sky News have spent the last couple of months breathlessly and endlessly trumpeting every scare mongering scientist they can drag in front of camera. Often it's the same people again and again and again which then appears on the website under 'BREAKING NEWS'.

    And it's all very well for the Daily Mail to carry the Zero banner but they too have been up and down like a whore's drawers (Rowan Atkinson): one minute demonstrating for our freedom, the next telling us that cases are rising sharply. They even declared last week that deaths had risen by an alarming 16%. The raw data behind that was an increase from 6 deaths to 7 deaths. Stop for a moment and consider the utter absurdity of that.

    There's only one statistic which matters: vaccinations. These brilliant vaccines work. We need to trust them and get everybody jabbed asap.

    Then back to life, back to big Government butting out of our lives and putting the media back in their box.
    Depending on which figures you look at, either two or four people who had been double jabbed have died from this new variant. That’s out of a very substantial number of cases.

    Therefore either this new variant is not especially serious - evidence not supported by the figures from India - or vaccines are very highly effective against it - if not in spreading it, at least in reducing its severity.

    In neither case should we be talking about delaying opening up.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799
    IanB2 said:

    Our new case numbers yesterday were higher than both Italy and Germany’s, which illustrates the good progress now being made in the EU with both vaccination and summer weather.

    What are the testing rates in Italy & Germany?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,473
    Mortimer said:

    OT, but only slightly, has anyone in their 30s cancelled and rebooked an earlier 2nd jab? I'm keen but also wary of the cancel button coming before the rebooking options...

    I haven’t been given a date for my second jab yet. I’m planning to get in in the last week of July if I can, which would be about nine weeks after the first jab.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,463
    Bell is a refreshing change from the endless Pagel/Gupta show we have had across the media the last week.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,463
    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Cockney, I raised an eyebrow at the juxtaposition of BBC red button headlines last night.

    "0 deaths" was followed by "Start of the third wave in Scotland".

    Indeed.

    The media have a lot to answer for. Sky News have spent the last couple of months breathlessly and endlessly trumpeting every scare mongering scientist they can drag in front of camera. Often it's the same people again and again and again which then appears on the website under 'BREAKING NEWS'.

    And it's all very well for the Daily Mail to carry the Zero banner but they too have been up and down like a whore's drawers (Rowan Atkinson): one minute demonstrating for our freedom, the next telling us that cases are rising sharply. They even declared last week that deaths had risen by an alarming 16%. The raw data behind that was an increase from 6 deaths to 7 deaths. Stop for a moment and consider the utter absurdity of that.

    There's only one statistic which matters: vaccinations. These brilliant vaccines work. We need to trust them and get everybody jabbed asap.

    Then back to life, back to big Government butting out of our lives and putting the media back in their box.
    Depending on which figures you look at, either two or four people who had been double jabbed have died from this new variant. That’s out of a very substantial number of cases.

    Therefore either this new variant is not especially serious - evidence not supported by the figures from India - or vaccines are very highly effective against it - if not in spreading it, at least in reducing its severity.

    In neither case should we be talking about delaying opening up.
    Have we established the dead double jabbed cases where definitely two or more weeks beyond their second jab, which seems crucial to me.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,463
    Mortimer said:

    OT, but only slightly, has anyone in their 30s cancelled and rebooked an earlier 2nd jab? I'm keen but also wary of the cancel button coming before the rebooking options...

    In think someone posted last night/evening on this very subject. They had iirc done a rebook successfully, but you better go through the thread and check my recollection is correct.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,473
    edited June 2021

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Cockney, I raised an eyebrow at the juxtaposition of BBC red button headlines last night.

    "0 deaths" was followed by "Start of the third wave in Scotland".

    Indeed.

    The media have a lot to answer for. Sky News have spent the last couple of months breathlessly and endlessly trumpeting every scare mongering scientist they can drag in front of camera. Often it's the same people again and again and again which then appears on the website under 'BREAKING NEWS'.

    And it's all very well for the Daily Mail to carry the Zero banner but they too have been up and down like a whore's drawers (Rowan Atkinson): one minute demonstrating for our freedom, the next telling us that cases are rising sharply. They even declared last week that deaths had risen by an alarming 16%. The raw data behind that was an increase from 6 deaths to 7 deaths. Stop for a moment and consider the utter absurdity of that.

    There's only one statistic which matters: vaccinations. These brilliant vaccines work. We need to trust them and get everybody jabbed asap.

    Then back to life, back to big Government butting out of our lives and putting the media back in their box.
    Depending on which figures you look at, either two or four people who had been double jabbed have died from this new variant. That’s out of a very substantial number of cases.

    Therefore either this new variant is not especially serious - evidence not supported by the figures from India - or vaccines are very highly effective against it - if not in spreading it, at least in reducing its severity.

    In neither case should we be talking about delaying opening up.
    Have we established the dead double jabbed cases where definitely two or more weeks beyond their second jab, which seems crucial to me.
    Well, I haven’t personally.

    There are cases of vaccine failure, even with double dose. It’s hardly surprising therefore if these people who have sadly died despite being double jabbed are another example of it. That’s one reason why to stop people getting ill we need to jab as many people as possible.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088
    Another lovely sunny morning; how soon before we get drought warnings,?Although I see that someone is advising us not to use mains water on our lawns.

    14.7degC on my app!

    I'm off this afternoon to do my bit in the u3a's Open Day; getting us going again and recruiting new members now it looks as though meetings will be possible.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799

    Bell is a refreshing change from the endless Pagel/Gupta show we have had across the media the last week.

    I've noticed R4 seems to be getting more balanced contributors in recent days - a great improvement on the publicity seeking doom mongers....
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,463
    "Vaccination is keeping Covid patients out of intensive care, NHS bosses have said, as data shows that Indian variant hotspots have started to pass their peaks."

    Telegraph
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,473

    Another lovely sunny morning; how soon before we get drought warnings,?Although I see that someone is advising us not to use mains water on our lawns.

    14.7degC on my app!

    I'm off this afternoon to do my bit in the u3a's Open Day; getting us going again and recruiting new members now it looks as though meetings will be possible.

    What are we supposed to do, piss on them?

    (Normally I would have water butts but due to building works they’ve had to be moved and are currently empty.)
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,463

    Bell is a refreshing change from the endless Pagel/Gupta show we have had across the media the last week.

    I've noticed R4 seems to be getting more balanced contributors in recent days - a great improvement on the publicity seeking doom mongers....
    Maybe the more balanced members of science community were away enjoying the sunshine over the half term/bank holiday rather than hunched over twitter typing 'doom' every few minutes? :smiley:
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799
    Sandpit said:

    Succinct summary of the issues in the Terf wars:

    I took screenshots of a legal argument made by Allison Bailey, which beautifully explains the difference between sex & gender.
    I didn't know that under the Gender Recognition Act 2004 only those men with a Gender Recognition Certificate can declare himself lawfully to be a woman.


    https://twitter.com/giddeeaunt/status/1399482206993719296?s=21

    There’s a bill going through Congress now to allow men to identify as women in prison, and move to the women’s prison. This already happens in California, with entirely the outcomes you’d have thought might happen.

    https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/male-inmates-in-womens-prisons-11622474215
    My favourite line from Bailley:

    ...while S9 GRA provides a legal right to be treated equally as a woman, it cannot conceivably turn a man, biologically, physically and anatomically into a woman. That would be transubstantiation, which is not within the gift of legislation.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,211
    Starmer was born in 1962. By the time he was 10, the vast majority of households had a TV:

    http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8101/CBP-8101.pdf

    If Starmer's family didn't have a TV it would almost certainly have been through choice.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088
    ydoethur said:

    Another lovely sunny morning; how soon before we get drought warnings,?Although I see that someone is advising us not to use mains water on our lawns.

    14.7degC on my app!

    I'm off this afternoon to do my bit in the u3a's Open Day; getting us going again and recruiting new members now it looks as though meetings will be possible.

    What are we supposed to do, piss on them?

    (Normally I would have water butts but due to building works they’ve had to be moved and are currently empty.)
    Let the lawn go brown according to the RHS. Grass is, after all, pretty resilient. And I've got some photos somewhere of the local cricket club, where it's difficult to distinguish the square from the rest of the field, all are so brown.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,463
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Cockney, I raised an eyebrow at the juxtaposition of BBC red button headlines last night.

    "0 deaths" was followed by "Start of the third wave in Scotland".

    Indeed.

    The media have a lot to answer for. Sky News have spent the last couple of months breathlessly and endlessly trumpeting every scare mongering scientist they can drag in front of camera. Often it's the same people again and again and again which then appears on the website under 'BREAKING NEWS'.

    And it's all very well for the Daily Mail to carry the Zero banner but they too have been up and down like a whore's drawers (Rowan Atkinson): one minute demonstrating for our freedom, the next telling us that cases are rising sharply. They even declared last week that deaths had risen by an alarming 16%. The raw data behind that was an increase from 6 deaths to 7 deaths. Stop for a moment and consider the utter absurdity of that.

    There's only one statistic which matters: vaccinations. These brilliant vaccines work. We need to trust them and get everybody jabbed asap.

    Then back to life, back to big Government butting out of our lives and putting the media back in their box.
    Depending on which figures you look at, either two or four people who had been double jabbed have died from this new variant. That’s out of a very substantial number of cases.

    Therefore either this new variant is not especially serious - evidence not supported by the figures from India - or vaccines are very highly effective against it - if not in spreading it, at least in reducing its severity.

    In neither case should we be talking about delaying opening up.
    Have we established the dead double jabbed cases where definitely two or more weeks beyond their second jab, which seems crucial to me.
    Well, I haven’t personally.

    There are cases of vaccine failure, even with double dose. It’s hardly surprising therefore if these people who have sadly died despite being double jabbed are another example of it. That’s one reason why to stop people getting ill we need to jab as many people as possible.
    I agree. I doubt anyone is arguing that we shouldn't vaccinate as many people as possible. Well, except Lozza Fox. But the question is should we be locking down again because of the new variant while we do more vaccination and I think the government is right to not make a decision yet, but is clearly minded to not reintroduce further restrictions and indeed to stick to 21st deadline on new stuff.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    21 June: partial lockdown relief

    EG in pubs: bar service will be allowed and no social restrictions BUT track and trace will remain, no standing or seating by the bar, masks required when ordering at the bar and when moving around the pub.

    Similar rules in restaurants, indoor places like cinemas etc.

    Prudent sensible provisions.

    Is that what you're expecting, or wanting, or have seen somewhere?

    Its not good enough. Seating at the bar is part of a pub. Masks are not.

    Its time to get back to normal. If someone unvaccinated doesn't want to go to a pub operating like normal, they have a simple choice: don't go there!
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799
    On the topic of "experts":

    Robert Dingwall has been nicknamed “Robert Dingbat” in government due to his rent-a-quote activity over the past year or so. Whitehall officials have been bemused that a part-time professor of sociology at Nottingham Trent University is presented in some sections of the media as a pandemic expert just because he sits on one government advisory group and loves talking to journalists.

    https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/politico-london-playbook-4-hour-fiasco-zeroing-in-on-freedom-had-enough-of-experts/
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,871
    ydoethur said:

    Another lovely sunny morning; how soon before we get drought warnings,?Although I see that someone is advising us not to use mains water on our lawns.

    14.7degC on my app!

    I'm off this afternoon to do my bit in the u3a's Open Day; getting us going again and recruiting new members now it looks as though meetings will be possible.

    What are we supposed to do, piss on them?

    (Normally I would have water butts but due to building works they’ve had to be moved and are currently empty.)
    Let the grass go brown. It revives with the first proper rain.

    I would have thought that the reservoirs must be pretty full at present.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,473
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Another lovely sunny morning; how soon before we get drought warnings,?Although I see that someone is advising us not to use mains water on our lawns.

    14.7degC on my app!

    I'm off this afternoon to do my bit in the u3a's Open Day; getting us going again and recruiting new members now it looks as though meetings will be possible.

    What are we supposed to do, piss on them?

    (Normally I would have water butts but due to building works they’ve had to be moved and are currently empty.)
    Let the grass go brown. It revives with the first proper rain.

    I would have thought that the reservoirs must be pretty full at present.
    I’ve just had to reseed it. That isn’t going to work.
This discussion has been closed.