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On his wedding day Johnson sees rating hits on approval, competence, and likeability – politicalbett

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited May 2021 in General
imageOn his wedding day Johnson sees rating hits on approval, competence, and likeability – politicalbetting.com

Generally I do not work Sundays and never really get the chance of getting into the findings of my favourite pollster, Opinium, which comes out every other weekend in the Observer. It has by far the best and comprehensive datasets of any pollster and has been running regular approval ratings longer than any other firm and its surveys always carry a range of leadership questions.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    First (again!)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    edited May 2021
    Only because I couldn't comment. Humph!

    Another sleepless night. I am getting very fed up with this insomnia.

    Mind you, dawn is beautiful and I have the rising sun shining into my window. So I may as well get up and breakfast on the terrace.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    For some of us, Sunday is a work day and we are in the office already!
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    Not sure if any bounce from vaccines etc has now been long forgotten.... when UK travellers suddenly find quite an onerous (but appropriate) testing regime, the tax bills need paying and furlough ends it could be an interesting Summer....
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    Whilst I think that this effect will probably ease off over time - people after all dislike Cummings much more - I think the government has been fairly constrained for the last 15 months and limited by the election for the 6 months prior to that. We have yet to see Boris on the open road and to be honest I think he won't be as popular as he is now. He will have to choose to focus on something and that will alienate some voters
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,724
    edited May 2021
    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094

    Whilst I think that this effect will probably ease off over time - people after all dislike Cummings much more - I think the government has been fairly constrained for the last 15 months and limited by the election for the 6 months prior to that. We have yet to see Boris on the open road and to be honest I think he won't be as popular as he is now. He will have to choose to focus on something and that will alienate some voters

    Spending £200m plus on a new ship of dubious utility seems to be his latest focus?
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    IanB2 said:

    Whilst I think that this effect will probably ease off over time - people after all dislike Cummings much more - I think the government has been fairly constrained for the last 15 months and limited by the election for the 6 months prior to that. We have yet to see Boris on the open road and to be honest I think he won't be as popular as he is now. He will have to choose to focus on something and that will alienate some voters

    Spending £200m plus on a new ship of dubious utility seems to be his latest focus?
    is it a good way of whipping up a culture war???? expensive folly springs to mind.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited May 2021
    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    Wouldn’t that make it easier to score??
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited May 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    It makes you despair and the media are to blame for promoting such nonsense

    At this rate the economy will be closed each year in the flu season

    The public need to stand up to this claptrap
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    As Matt Singh observed yesterday:

    So our poll had a 12-point Tory lead, Survation had 10, YouGov had 14, Opinium have 6. Without debating who is right or wrong, I wonder which of these polls will get the most attention?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1398716807251378176?s=20
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    And on the 2017 research which showed polls favouring Labour got more tweets:

    https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/sexy-labour-leaning-polls-get-more-traction-on-twitter-4f3113415a88

    Some people have suggested that this may have changed since the change of Labour leader. Anecdotally there are a few hints of it. But that doesn't change the social media (and traditional media) bias towards outliers, particularly those that fit whichever story is big at the time

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1398726051069583364?s=20
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,288
    I thought Mori was Mr Smithson's favourite pollster.... In any event getting exited about one poll that may prove to be an indication of change or an outlier seems a bit ahead of oneself.
    It also seems ridiculous to take the word of Cummings for. anything..The left were baying for his blood as somonene who is completely untrustworthy. Now he is their stick to beat Boris with... Ludicrous , but that's politics.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way



  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good morning, everyone.

    It seems summer may be upon us.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    I thought Mori was Mr Smithson's favourite pollster.... In any event getting exited about one poll that may prove to be an indication of change or an outlier seems a bit ahead of oneself.
    It also seems ridiculous to take the word of Cummings for. anything..The left were baying for his blood as somonene who is completely untrustworthy. Now he is their stick to beat Boris with... Ludicrous , but that's politics.

    The governments principal adviser goes on the record denouncing the pm and senior ministers.

    The stick is beating the government all on its own.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    Morning OKC, Blue sky and sunshine here, looks like it will be a stunning day
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Jonathan said:

    I thought Mori was Mr Smithson's favourite pollster.... In any event getting exited about one poll that may prove to be an indication of change or an outlier seems a bit ahead of oneself.
    It also seems ridiculous to take the word of Cummings for. anything..The left were baying for his blood as somonene who is completely untrustworthy. Now he is their stick to beat Boris with... Ludicrous , but that's politics.

    The governments principal adviser goes on the record denouncing the pm and senior ministers.

    The stick is beating the government all on its own.
    Only if you believe someone who was traduced by most everyone probably including yourself

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038
    On topic, I think OGH might be getting a tad too excited.

    I'd want more than 19/1 on the LDs for C&A too.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited May 2021

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Lab leak story front Sunday Times front page:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1398758890200866816?s=20
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    It makes you despair and the media are to blame for promoting such nonsense

    At this rate the economy will be closed each year in the flu season

    The public need to stand up to this claptrap
    Yep this is going full crazy.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57294438

    "Hospitals are seeing no rise in admissions due to Covid, but delays to easing of restrictions need to be debated because they are seeing growing pressure from non Covid admissions. Effectively the argument seems to be that people have put off seeking medical help for important but non-critical problems whilst the pandemic was seen as a threat, and the only way to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed is to maintain the public perception of this threat to keep them from presenting...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    Wouldn’t that make it easier to score??
    It might inhibit the running around which I understand is traditional before a goal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    edited May 2021
    alex_ said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    It makes you despair and the media are to blame for promoting such nonsense

    At this rate the economy will be closed each year in the flu season

    The public need to stand up to this claptrap
    Yep this is going full crazy.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57294438

    "Hospitals are seeing no rise in admissions due to Covid, but delays to easing of restrictions need to be debated because they are seeing growing pressure from non Covid admissions. Effectively the argument seems to be that people have put off seeking medical help for important but non-critical problems whilst the pandemic was seen as a threat, and the only way to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed is to maintain the public perception of this threat to keep them from presenting...
    Yes, this can be read alongside the stories of the abuse surgery receptions have been getting from patients recently. Which is utterly wrong, but likely fuelled by a sense that people have waited long enough and are now insistent on being seen. Meanwhile many GP surgeries remain in their bunkers, mostly offering remote consultations whenever possible.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    I thought Mori was Mr Smithson's favourite pollster.... In any event getting exited about one poll that may prove to be an indication of change or an outlier seems a bit ahead of oneself.
    It also seems ridiculous to take the word of Cummings for. anything..The left were baying for his blood as somonene who is completely untrustworthy. Now he is their stick to beat Boris with... Ludicrous , but that's politics.

    The governments principal adviser goes on the record denouncing the pm and senior ministers.

    The stick is beating the government all on its own.
    Only if you believe someone who was traduced by most everyone probably including yourself

    You don’t have to believe every word Cummings says to conclude that this government is dysfunctional. If he lied or told the truth, he was at the heart of government and part of key decision making. Either way it’s a total basket case.

    Quite frankly I’m surprised that folks are so eager to associate themselves publicly and so enthusiastically with this administration. I guess that the power of modern tribal politics.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
    Read what I said

    Unless their is real evidence the NHS is being overwhelmed and the vaccine is not effective then yes, we cannot be held ransom to something which is not much more serious than flu in those contracting it
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,724
    alex_ said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    It makes you despair and the media are to blame for promoting such nonsense

    At this rate the economy will be closed each year in the flu season

    The public need to stand up to this claptrap
    Yep this is going full crazy.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57294438

    "Hospitals are seeing no rise in admissions due to Covid, but delays to easing of restrictions need to be debated because they are seeing growing pressure from non Covid admissions. Effectively the argument seems to be that people have put off seeking medical help for important but non-critical problems whilst the pandemic was seen as a threat, and the only way to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed is to maintain the public perception of this threat to keep them from presenting...
    I've got an X-Ray lined up for mid-June, after a (telephone) consultation with the GP on 25th.
    The appointment letter suggests that I might be able to get in earlier if I phone, indicating possible cancellations and other non-attendances.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I thought Mori was Mr Smithson's favourite pollster.... In any event getting exited about one poll that may prove to be an indication of change or an outlier seems a bit ahead of oneself.
    It also seems ridiculous to take the word of Cummings for. anything..The left were baying for his blood as somonene who is completely untrustworthy. Now he is their stick to beat Boris with... Ludicrous , but that's politics.

    The governments principal adviser goes on the record denouncing the pm and senior ministers.

    The stick is beating the government all on its own.
    Only if you believe someone who was traduced by most everyone probably including yourself

    You don’t have to believe every word Cummings says to conclude that this government is dysfunctional. If he lied or told the truth, he was at the heart of government and part of key decision making. Either way it’s a total basket case.

    Quite frankly I’m surprised that folks are so eager to associate themselves publicly and so enthusiastically with this administration. I guess that the power of modern tribal politics.
    Or that the alternatives are worse
  • circleacirclea Posts: 2
    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
    Read what I said

    Unless their is real evidence the NHS is being overwhelmed and the vaccine is not effective then yes, we cannot be held ransom to something which is not much more serious than flu in those contracting it
    Move over Whitty, Big G knows best, he’ll judge the evidence and tell us what to do.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    IanB2 said:

    alex_ said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    It makes you despair and the media are to blame for promoting such nonsense

    At this rate the economy will be closed each year in the flu season

    The public need to stand up to this claptrap
    Yep this is going full crazy.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57294438

    "Hospitals are seeing no rise in admissions due to Covid, but delays to easing of restrictions need to be debated because they are seeing growing pressure from non Covid admissions. Effectively the argument seems to be that people have put off seeking medical help for important but non-critical problems whilst the pandemic was seen as a threat, and the only way to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed is to maintain the public perception of this threat to keep them from presenting...
    Yes, this can be read alongside the stories of the abuse surgery receptions have been getting from patients recently. Which is utterly wrong, but likely fuelled by a sense that people have waited long enough and are now insistent on being seen. Meanwhile many GP surgeries remain in their bunkers, mostly offering remote consultations whenever possible.
    The irony is that those putting the argument can't see how it completely turns the criticisms of the approach to Covid on it's head (which was - the earlier you act, the lower the problem down the line). The backlog in the NHS (or the courts, or the problems facing the public finances etc etc) aren't going to go away, they are only going to get worse. Kicking the backlog to the NHS down the road will only make it worse. And if you can't aspire to make a dent in it during the summer, it's clearly not going to get better in the winter. Unless the hope is that all those people wanting hip replacements, or whatever, die before they ever get round to burdening the NHS with the problem. Which makes a mockery of the idea that the restrictions are designed to save lives.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I thought Mori was Mr Smithson's favourite pollster.... In any event getting exited about one poll that may prove to be an indication of change or an outlier seems a bit ahead of oneself.
    It also seems ridiculous to take the word of Cummings for. anything..The left were baying for his blood as somonene who is completely untrustworthy. Now he is their stick to beat Boris with... Ludicrous , but that's politics.

    The governments principal adviser goes on the record denouncing the pm and senior ministers.

    The stick is beating the government all on its own.
    Only if you believe someone who was traduced by most everyone probably including yourself

    You don’t have to believe every word Cummings says to conclude that this government is dysfunctional. If he lied or told the truth, he was at the heart of government and part of key decision making. Either way it’s a total basket case.

    Quite frankly I’m surprised that folks are so eager to associate themselves publicly and so enthusiastically with this administration. I guess that the power of modern tribal politics.
    Or that the alternatives are worse
    QED
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,288
    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I think he booked it for the time Cummings was speaking but it had to be rearranged.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
    Read what I said

    Unless their is real evidence the NHS is being overwhelmed and the vaccine is not effective then yes, we cannot be held ransom to something which is not much more serious than flu in those contracting it
    Move over Whitty, Big G knows best, he’ll judge the evidence and tell us what to do.
    I am not telling anyone what to do

    I am making the point about myself and others must take their own responsibility
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    Quite. The latest in the endless litany of excuses from those who want as many restrictions as possible to be kept, and kept forever. As I said the other day, all so predictable: there'll always be a new excuse for why it's "unsafe" to do otherwise.

    The amount of mithering we hear from great chunks of the scientific and medical establishment about the variants reveals that these people want to continue to exercise their power over us permanently, either because they've become irrationally obsessed with the disease to the exclusion of all else, or they like the attention, or both. It is as if, the further and deeper the vaccines penetrate into society, the more useless they become! We are entreated to think of the welfare of very low risk under 30s, almost invulnerable children, and to remember that vaccination "only" slashes transmission and keeps 9 in 10 of what would previously have been the most serious cases out of hospital.

    The basic message is, if you dare let go of the security blanket then some more people (and it doesn't matter how few) will die, and they will die because you didn't care about them, or the NHS. And that will all be your fault, because you are an evil person who wouldn't do something so small and harmless as spend half the remainder of your life walking around in a gag, and wetting your pants every time somebody you don't live with gets within two metres of you, in order to protect them.

    Thus, it becomes increasingly obvious that no level of vaccination will ever be good enough for these people, and we're left relying on the Government to stop listening to them. Hopefully it will, but it's far from certain - and if the Prime Minister buckles we could still be stuck with rules and prodding and nannying and paranoia in 2025. Because there will always, ALWAYS be one more reason for not declaring the disaster over and moving on.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,336
    Off Topic

    Just watched Friday Night Dinner anniversary show. I was shocked to see how ill Paul Ritter was. A great shame to lose him, he was so funny in the show, and excellent in Chernobyl.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
    Read what I said

    Unless their is real evidence the NHS is being overwhelmed and the vaccine is not effective then yes, we cannot be held ransom to something which is not much more serious than flu in those contracting it
    Move over Whitty, Big G knows best, he’ll judge the evidence and tell us what to do.
    Well, as Whitty is happy to say when pushed. He gives advice on Covid. He has no brief to advise and/or weigh up against competing priorities.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    OT - fascinating account of Scots' involvement in breaking the Chinese tea monopoly:

    “I knew quite a bit about Scotland’s disproportionate role in running the British empire, and had long been aware that many Scots had been tea planters, but I had no idea that the early pioneering work on tea was so dominated by Scots.

    One of my grandmother's sisters had lived on a Ceylon plantation in the 1930s - returning after independence and naming their home in Angus "Kandy".
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038
    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,288

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    Quite. The latest in the endless litany of excuses from those who want as many restrictions as possible to be kept, and kept forever. As I said the other day, all so predictable: there'll always be a new excuse for why it's "unsafe" to do otherwise.

    The amount of mithering we hear from great chunks of the scientific and medical establishment about the variants reveals that these people want to continue to exercise their power over us permanently, either because they've become irrationally obsessed with the disease to the exclusion of all else, or they like the attention, or both. It is as if, the further and deeper the vaccines penetrate into society, the more useless they become! We are entreated to think of the welfare of very low risk under 30s, almost invulnerable children, and to remember that vaccination "only" slashes transmission and keeps 9 in 10 of what would previously have been the most serious cases out of hospital.

    The basic message is, if you dare let go of the security blanket then some more people (and it doesn't matter how few) will die, and they will die because you didn't care about them, or the NHS. And that will all be your fault, because you are an evil person who wouldn't do something so small and harmless as spend half the remainder of your life walking around in a gag, and wetting your pants every time somebody you don't live with gets within two metres of you, in order to protect them.

    Thus, it becomes increasingly obvious that no level of vaccination will ever be good enough for these people, and we're left relying on the Government to stop listening to them. Hopefully it will, but it's far from certain - and if the Prime Minister buckles we could still be stuck with rules and prodding and nannying and paranoia in 2025. Because there will always, ALWAYS be one more reason for not declaring the disaster over and moving on.
    The virus has bred conspiracy theorists as fast as it spread.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
    Well isn't that the point? If the public were more likely to take an interest in Cummings, then they'd be no value in timing it to "defuse fallout"!!!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    OT - fascinating account of Scots' involvement in breaking the Chinese tea monopoly:

    “I knew quite a bit about Scotland’s disproportionate role in running the British empire, and had long been aware that many Scots had been tea planters, but I had no idea that the early pioneering work on tea was so dominated by Scots.

    One of my grandmother's sisters had lived on a Ceylon plantation in the 1930s - returning after independence and naming their home in Angus "Kandy".

    Link:

    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/nostalgia/2245414/meet-the-north-east-planters-and-pioneers-who-brewed-up-a-storm-in-a-teacup/
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
    Read what I said

    Unless their is real evidence the NHS is being overwhelmed and the vaccine is not effective then yes, we cannot be held ransom to something which is not much more serious than flu in those contracting it
    Move over Whitty, Big G knows best, he’ll judge the evidence and tell us what to do.
    I am not telling anyone what to do

    I am making the point about myself and others must take their own responsibility
    All through this pandemic there have been armchair experts claiming they know best, that they are responsible and speak for the majority. By and large they are total nutters.

    I am sad to see you want to join their ranks because, like the rest of us, are fed up. We are so close to getting out of this hell, now is not the time to go rogue.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    Whilst I think that this effect will probably ease off over time - people after all dislike Cummings much more - I think the government has been fairly constrained for the last 15 months and limited by the election for the 6 months prior to that. We have yet to see Boris on the open road and to be honest I think he won't be as popular as he is now. He will have to choose to focus on something and that will alienate some voters

    Or, politics.

  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    Quite. The latest in the endless litany of excuses from those who want as many restrictions as possible to be kept, and kept forever. As I said the other day, all so predictable: there'll always be a new excuse for why it's "unsafe" to do otherwise.

    The amount of mithering we hear from great chunks of the scientific and medical establishment about the variants reveals that these people want to continue to exercise their power over us permanently, either because they've become irrationally obsessed with the disease to the exclusion of all else, or they like the attention, or both. It is as if, the further and deeper the vaccines penetrate into society, the more useless they become! We are entreated to think of the welfare of very low risk under 30s, almost invulnerable children, and to remember that vaccination "only" slashes transmission and keeps 9 in 10 of what would previously have been the most serious cases out of hospital.

    The basic message is, if you dare let go of the security blanket then some more people (and it doesn't matter how few) will die, and they will die because you didn't care about them, or the NHS. And that will all be your fault, because you are an evil person who wouldn't do something so small and harmless as spend half the remainder of your life walking around in a gag, and wetting your pants every time somebody you don't live with gets within two metres of you, in order to protect them.

    Thus, it becomes increasingly obvious that no level of vaccination will ever be good enough for these people, and we're left relying on the Government to stop listening to them. Hopefully it will, but it's far from certain - and if the Prime Minister buckles we could still be stuck with rules and prodding and nannying and paranoia in 2025. Because there will always, ALWAYS be one more reason for not declaring the disaster over and moving on.
    The virus has bred conspiracy theorists as fast as it spread.
    We may wish, at this point, to take a step back and note how many conspiracies of 2020 appear to be less of a theory in 2021.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    Wouldn’t that make it easier to score??
    It might inhibit the running around which I understand is traditional before a goal.
    The phrase I think you were seeking is "This is not so much shifting the goalposts as taking them away altogether"

    Sunday morning PB pedantry at its best.... ;)
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,016
    Three things:

    1. This new ship. Great! Don't knock work being unveiled to "reinvigorate the shipbuilding industry". Probably worth pointing out though that we have been a major sea-faring power for a long time. The notion that it will be "distinct from any previous national flagship reflecting the UK's new status as an independent trading nation and helping us to seize the opportunities that status presents" is laughable. Year Zero was not 1996. Or 1973. We have spent centuries as an "independent trading nation" and have a long history of sending in flagships to "seize" opportunities.

    2. The Unite plot to spread itself through the party and oust Iain Duncan Starmer. If Unite was a force for good or change then perhaps I would get their plan. Instead Unite could get done under RICO laws in America and wasted £2m of member's money in an absurd legal action against a Labour MP.

    I keep making this point that its now absolutely clear that the hard left and the centre right can no longer occupy the same party. Their sole aim seems to be war against the other. The Labour brand is beyond tarnished anyway, let the nutters have it, and take the majority of members, MPs and the party machine away to do something relevant.

    3. Congratulations to Boris and Carrie! Boris better get writing some more books to pay for the inevitable divorce when he shags someone else again.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited May 2021

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    Quite. The latest in the endless litany of excuses from those who want as many restrictions as possible to be kept, and kept forever. As I said the other day, all so predictable: there'll always be a new excuse for why it's "unsafe" to do otherwise.

    The amount of mithering we hear from great chunks of the scientific and medical establishment about the variants reveals that these people want to continue to exercise their power over us permanently, either because they've become irrationally obsessed with the disease to the exclusion of all else, or they like the attention, or both. It is as if, the further and deeper the vaccines penetrate into society, the more useless they become! We are entreated to think of the welfare of very low risk under 30s, almost invulnerable children, and to remember that vaccination "only" slashes transmission and keeps 9 in 10 of what would previously have been the most serious cases out of hospital.

    The basic message is, if you dare let go of the security blanket then some more people (and it doesn't matter how few) will die, and they will die because you didn't care about them, or the NHS. And that will all be your fault, because you are an evil person who wouldn't do something so small and harmless as spend half the remainder of your life walking around in a gag, and wetting your pants every time somebody you don't live with gets within two metres of you, in order to protect them.

    Thus, it becomes increasingly obvious that no level of vaccination will ever be good enough for these people, and we're left relying on the Government to stop listening to them. Hopefully it will, but it's far from certain - and if the Prime Minister buckles we could still be stuck with rules and prodding and nannying and paranoia in 2025. Because there will always, ALWAYS be one more reason for not declaring the disaster over and moving on.
    The virus has bred conspiracy theorists as fast as it spread.
    I don't believe in the idea of a conspiracy to maintain permanent control and "rule by scientists". However there clearly needs to be a break at some point (and soon!) because it is clear that the medical community is dominated by a mindset which often works in contradiction to the traditional view of the UK as a free society. This is nothing new. We know that there are a whole host of "personal choice" activities (and even not so "personal choice" when one considers the indirect effect on the resourcing of public health services etc) that the medical establishment have always been "zero tolerance" of but politicians have largely been able to resist. Smoking, drinking, restrictions on unhealthy foods etc etc. And even been able to fight against not just on the grounds purely of "freedom and personal choice" but because they've been able to see that measures proposed by the medical establishment will often not work as intended (the "prohibition" issue).

    What Covid has done is elevate one issue above all others to a level where the medical establishment can command widespread public support for their "zero tolerance" approach. But take the arguments on Covid to their logical conclusion and suddenly we have zero tolerance of anything that might put someone in hospital and therefore deprive public health resources to more "deserving" others. And then, too late, the public start to realise that they aren't able to the things that they want to do, and the restrictions no longer just apply to others.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,288

    Three things:

    1. This new ship. Great! Don't knock work being unveiled to "reinvigorate the shipbuilding industry". Probably worth pointing out though that we have been a major sea-faring power for a long time. The notion that it will be "distinct from any previous national flagship reflecting the UK's new status as an independent trading nation and helping us to seize the opportunities that status presents" is laughable. Year Zero was not 1996. Or 1973. We have spent centuries as an "independent trading nation" and have a long history of sending in flagships to "seize" opportunities.

    2. The Unite plot to spread itself through the party and oust Iain Duncan Starmer. If Unite was a force for good or change then perhaps I would get their plan. Instead Unite could get done under RICO laws in America and wasted £2m of member's money in an absurd legal action against a Labour MP.

    I keep making this point that its now absolutely clear that the hard left and the centre right can no longer occupy the same party. Their sole aim seems to be war against the other. The Labour brand is beyond tarnished anyway, let the nutters have it, and take the majority of members, MPs and the party machine away to do something relevant.

    3. Congratulations to Boris and Carrie! Boris better get writing some more books to pay for the inevitable divorce when he shags someone else again.

    It never ceases to amaze me how indignant second wives(who were partially responsible for the break up of their husbands first marriage) become when their husband buggers off with someone else..
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,016

    Good morning, everyone.

    It seems summer may be upon us.

    Indeed! Thursday and then Friday were increasingly glorious in Buchan. Saturday up early to drive to Lancashire. No traffic of note until Cumbria where the queue to get off the M6 for the lakes backed up all the way south past Preston.

    Saw my parents for the first time in 15 months (bliss) to help get their house fit for viewings next week. They're moving to Scotland to be with their sons and the grandkids which is great!

    And then onto Manchester. Why stay here when the olds live in Rochdale? Vecause even the Travelodge wanted £170 for 2 nights and I have Diamond Hilton status and points to burn darling. Town was rammed with people last night. Look out over Canal Street from my room and it was busy busy. And this morning? A n ice jog in the sunshine down the canal.

    Yes, it seems summer may be upon us. Today's activities include doing egregious damage to the overgrowth in the old's garden. I hope for scorchio!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
    As for what it means, it means - if Boris really is now a Catholic - that he can't recommend bishops for the CoE to HMQ. So Paul Dacre won't get made a Bishop as consolation for not getting the Ofcom job. So there is that, I suppose.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769
    edited May 2021
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
    Read what I said

    Unless their is real evidence the NHS is being overwhelmed and the vaccine is not effective then yes, we cannot be held ransom to something which is not much more serious than flu in those contracting it
    Move over Whitty, Big G knows best, he’ll judge the evidence and tell us what to do.
    I am not telling anyone what to do

    I am making the point about myself and others must take their own responsibility
    All through this pandemic there have been armchair experts claiming they know best, that they are responsible and speak for the majority. By and large they are total nutters. civil servants.
    FTFY 😀

    Truthfully, I’d far rather trust Big G than Whitty, who has a weird mask fetish and has got just about every call wrong.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884
    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    And yet@foxy says social distancing is making it harder for his clinics, so there is a dichotomy here.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
    Read what I said

    Unless their is real evidence the NHS is being overwhelmed and the vaccine is not effective then yes, we cannot be held ransom to something which is not much more serious than flu in those contracting it
    Move over Whitty, Big G knows best, he’ll judge the evidence and tell us what to do.
    I am not telling anyone what to do

    I am making the point about myself and others must take their own responsibility
    All through this pandemic there have been armchair experts claiming they know best, that they are responsible and speak for the majority. By and large they are total nutters.

    I am sad to see you want to join their ranks because, like the rest of us, are fed up. We are so close to getting out of this hell, now is not the time to go rogue.
    BigG in his post set criteria that he wants to see to be prevented from taking his own decisions. It is entirely reasonable for individual "armchair generals" to question why they should continue to obey the rules laid down by our superiors, when the proclaimed reasons for them are so far away from those we were given when we entered this whole thing. He is prepared to continue to follow if shown how by doing so is justified. But when hints are made that restrictions should continue to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed by non-Covid patients then it is entirely reasonable to ask questions about what is happening...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,016

    Three things:

    1. This new ship. Great! Don't knock work being unveiled to "reinvigorate the shipbuilding industry". Probably worth pointing out though that we have been a major sea-faring power for a long time. The notion that it will be "distinct from any previous national flagship reflecting the UK's new status as an independent trading nation and helping us to seize the opportunities that status presents" is laughable. Year Zero was not 1996. Or 1973. We have spent centuries as an "independent trading nation" and have a long history of sending in flagships to "seize" opportunities.

    2. The Unite plot to spread itself through the party and oust Iain Duncan Starmer. If Unite was a force for good or change then perhaps I would get their plan. Instead Unite could get done under RICO laws in America and wasted £2m of member's money in an absurd legal action against a Labour MP.

    I keep making this point that its now absolutely clear that the hard left and the centre right can no longer occupy the same party. Their sole aim seems to be war against the other. The Labour brand is beyond tarnished anyway, let the nutters have it, and take the majority of members, MPs and the party machine away to do something relevant.

    3. Congratulations to Boris and Carrie! Boris better get writing some more books to pay for the inevitable divorce when he shags someone else again.

    It never ceases to amaze me how indignant second wives(who were partially responsible for the break up of their husbands first marriage) become when their husband buggers off with someone else..
    I don't even have to refer back to his previous wives - and neither seemingly did the priest at the church. I only need to go back to last year, point at the resulting superinjunction and shrug my shoulders.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    Indy: Boris Johnson falls out of favour with public as Tory poll lead slashed in wake of Cummings evidence
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,922

    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
    I think Carrie wanted Westminster Abbey, but it was fully booked - so they had to go down the road.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    Wouldn’t that make it easier to score??
    It might inhibit the running around which I understand is traditional before a goal.
    The phrase I think you were seeking is "This is not so much shifting the goalposts as taking them away altogether"

    Sunday morning PB pedantry at its best.... ;)
    I've had no sleep. At all. Plus I know nothing about football. It was the best I could do. I feel as sick as a parrot. I promise never to use a footballing metaphor ever again.

    Will this do?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    Cyclefree said:

    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
    It has pissed me off mightily. Not the fact of them getting married. But the way the Catholic Church, the church I have on and off belonged to all my life, seems to have abandoned all pretence of believing in the 10 Commandments, especially the 6th one.

    We're all sinners deserving of mercy blah, blah, I know all that. But this same church, not content with overlooking the most revolting crimes against children by some of its priests, says that my gay son, born like that and, according to church doctrine, made in the image of God, is "disordered" and "intrinsically immoral".

    Well stuff that, frankly. If the church going to opine on immorality, it needs to take a good hard look at itself. I know who in that little group listed above is immoral and it isn't my son.
    I thought the whole point of being a catholic was that you could do what you like as long as you said sorry?

    Logically I don't see the point of converting to it until the very last minute.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,016
    Cyclefree said:

    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
    It has pissed me off mightily. Not the fact of them getting married. But the way the Catholic Church, the church I have on and off belonged to all my life, seems to have abandoned all pretence of believing in the 10 Commandments, especially the 6th one.

    We're all sinners deserving of mercy blah, blah, I know all that. But this same church, not content with overlooking the most revolting crimes against children by some of its priests, says that my gay son, born like that and, according to church doctrine, made in the image of God, is "disordered" and "intrinsically immoral".

    Well stuff that, frankly. If the church going to opine on immorality, it needs to take a good hard look at itself. I know who in that little group listed above is immoral and it isn't my son.
    I hear you. I found God as an adult, still believe in Him, but after some great years at specific flavours of groovy CofE churches have failed to find one since that isn't inflexibly hypocritical.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,288
    Cyclefree said:

    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
    It has pissed me off mightily. Not the fact of them getting married. But the way the Catholic Church, the church I have on and off belonged to all my life, seems to have abandoned all pretence of believing in the 10 Commandments, especially the 6th one.

    We're all sinners deserving of mercy blah, blah, I know all that. But this same church, not content with overlooking the most revolting crimes against children by some of its priests, says that my gay son, born like that and, according to church doctrine, made in the image of God, is "disordered" and "intrinsically immoral".

    Well stuff that, frankly. If the church going to opine on immorality, it needs to take a good hard look at itself. I know who in that little group listed above is immoral and it isn't my son.
    Join another church that is more welcoming. ROMAN Catholicism and the Church of England are not the only ones offering pastoral support.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    Wouldn’t that make it easier to score??
    It might inhibit the running around which I understand is traditional before a goal.
    The phrase I think you were seeking is "This is not so much shifting the goalposts as taking them away altogether"

    Sunday morning PB pedantry at its best.... ;)
    I've had no sleep. At all. Plus I know nothing about football. It was the best I could do. I feel as sick as a parrot. I promise never to use a footballing metaphor ever again.

    Will this do?
    Sorry you are feeling bad. If it helps, I know little about football either.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884
    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    Caution is needed but the vaccines are expressly to decouple hospitalisation and death, and it looks like it is. I’d also point to Israel for opening up with similar levels of vaccination as us now. We do have an issue in some locations, and the much hated regional approach may need to be used, but for much of the country you couldn’t get infected if you tried.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
    Read what I said

    Unless their is real evidence the NHS is being overwhelmed and the vaccine is not effective then yes, we cannot be held ransom to something which is not much more serious than flu in those contracting it
    Move over Whitty, Big G knows best, he’ll judge the evidence and tell us what to do.
    I am not telling anyone what to do

    I am making the point about myself and others must take their own responsibility
    All through this pandemic there have been armchair experts claiming they know best, that they are responsible and speak for the majority. By and large they are total nutters.

    I am sad to see you want to join their ranks because, like the rest of us, are fed up. We are so close to getting out of this hell, now is not the time to go rogue.
    I am not going rogue as you say

    I do not go out to pubs, or concerts, or the cinema but I do meet up with all my family, who by the way are vaccinated, and I do wear a mask in shops and try to socially distance

    I will continue to do all those things, but it is time the public took on the media and the zero covid devotees as there is no proof that the hospitalisation and death figures are significantly rising and there is plenty of proof vaccines work

    Voices have to be heard to take on these attitudes as mental health and the backlog of health issues are made far worse each time we lockdown

    My anger this morning is directed at the one sided arguments being put forward by those who just want us kept prisoner when the indicators do not justify the need for such action

    If it is proven the hospitals are being overwhelmed, or the vaccine is not working, then of course I will comply with restrictions but the case has to be made and it has not been so far
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    Wonder if Poots and the DUP have an opinion on Boris’s nuptials.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
    It has pissed me off mightily. Not the fact of them getting married. But the way the Catholic Church, the church I have on and off belonged to all my life, seems to have abandoned all pretence of believing in the 10 Commandments, especially the 6th one.

    We're all sinners deserving of mercy blah, blah, I know all that. But this same church, not content with overlooking the most revolting crimes against children by some of its priests, says that my gay son, born like that and, according to church doctrine, made in the image of God, is "disordered" and "intrinsically immoral".

    Well stuff that, frankly. If the church going to opine on immorality, it needs to take a good hard look at itself. I know who in that little group listed above is immoral and it isn't my son.
    I thought the whole point of being a catholic was that you could do what you like as long as you said sorry?

    Logically I don't see the point of converting to it until the very last minute.
    No - apologies are not enough. Repentance is needed: this is quite a lot harder. For one thing you need to promise - and mean it - not to do the bad thing ever again.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,922
    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    Wouldn’t that make it easier to score??
    It might inhibit the running around which I understand is traditional before a goal.
    The phrase I think you were seeking is "This is not so much shifting the goalposts as taking them away altogether"

    Sunday morning PB pedantry at its best.... ;)
    I've had no sleep. At all. Plus I know nothing about football. It was the best I could do. I feel as sick as a parrot. I promise never to use a footballing metaphor ever again.

    Will this do?
    I recommend studying the pronouncements of JVT - learn from the master of the football metaphor.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
    Read what I said

    Unless their is real evidence the NHS is being overwhelmed and the vaccine is not effective then yes, we cannot be held ransom to something which is not much more serious than flu in those contracting it
    Move over Whitty, Big G knows best, he’ll judge the evidence and tell us what to do.
    To be fair, his is not an isolated view. At some point, for the sake of the hospitality industry, social distancing needs to end. It looks likely now that masks are going to carry on, especially on public transport and in clinical settings. As others have said, we are not really in lockdown anymore. But the restrictions, as well as being ignored by some ( household mixing etc), are a drag on the economy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769
    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    Wouldn’t that make it easier to score??
    It might inhibit the running around which I understand is traditional before a goal.
    The phrase I think you were seeking is "This is not so much shifting the goalposts as taking them away altogether"

    Sunday morning PB pedantry at its best.... ;)
    I've had no sleep. At all. Plus I know nothing about football. It was the best I could do. I feel as sick as a parrot. I promise never to use a footballing metaphor ever again.

    Will this do?
    Sorry you are feeling bad. If it helps, I know little about football either.
    Wrong shape of ball.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,288
    edited May 2021
    IanB2 said:

    Indy: Boris Johnson falls out of favour with public as Tory poll lead slashed in wake of Cummings evidence

    We I guess it sells newspapers,but the entire statement can be picked apart. One poll does not a summer make.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,016

    Wonder if Poots and the DUP have an opinion on Boris’s nuptials.

    Poots thinks Boris should undergo trial by dinosaur like early man did.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004

    Three things:

    1. This new ship. Great! Don't knock work being unveiled to "reinvigorate the shipbuilding industry". Probably worth pointing out though that we have been a major sea-faring power for a long time. The notion that it will be "distinct from any previous national flagship reflecting the UK's new status as an independent trading nation and helping us to seize the opportunities that status presents" is laughable. Year Zero was not 1996. Or 1973. We have spent centuries as an "independent trading nation" and have a long history of sending in flagships to "seize" opportunities.

    2. The Unite plot to spread itself through the party and oust Iain Duncan Starmer. If Unite was a force for good or change then perhaps I would get their plan. Instead Unite could get done under RICO laws in America and wasted £2m of member's money in an absurd legal action against a Labour MP.

    I keep making this point that its now absolutely clear that the hard left and the centre right can no longer occupy the same party. Their sole aim seems to be war against the other. The Labour brand is beyond tarnished anyway, let the nutters have it, and take the majority of members, MPs and the party machine away to do something relevant.

    3. Congratulations to Boris and Carrie! Boris better get writing some more books to pay for the inevitable divorce when he shags someone else again.

    I was about to like your post and you spoil it with your last few words unfortunately

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good morning one and all. There's some cloud, apparently, drifting in from the North Sea and some of it's hanging over North Essex. However the forecasters assure us that it will soon break and we'll have another lovely day.

    Able to sit in the pub garden by choice yesterday, after gardening, instead of by necessity! No-one, though, in the small group I was talking to, expects things to be back to 'normal', or very near it, next month. And the same thought is coming through other chats, on-line as well as face-to-face.

    I fear you are right. The first item on the news this morning was some NHS wallah saying that NHS hospitals would be overwhelmed by all the backlog and other emergency treatments and therefore restrictions should continue. This is not so much shifting the goalposts as covering the entire bloody field in them.
    Wouldn’t that make it easier to score??
    It might inhibit the running around which I understand is traditional before a goal.
    The phrase I think you were seeking is "This is not so much shifting the goalposts as taking them away altogether"

    Sunday morning PB pedantry at its best.... ;)
    I've had no sleep. At all. Plus I know nothing about football. It was the best I could do. I feel as sick as a parrot. I promise never to use a footballing metaphor ever again.

    Will this do?
    Sorry you are feeling bad. If it helps, I know little about football either.
    Not knowing about football frees up my time and space in my brain for other things. I just need to keep sufficiently abreast to be able to console son when his team loses - as it did yesterday.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Just a tangential point on the "overwhelming NHS hospitals with non-covid patients" thing. I suspect the next few years are going to be very good news for the private medical sector. If they can get the nurses. Which means they will be prepared to pay very well. Which means the NHS is going to need to respond and/or scour the globe.

    No doubt there will be calls in some quarters to nationalise private providers to create new capacity. Of course however on of the advantages (in principle - noting the point about nurses) of the private sector is that it can grow to meet demand in a way the NHS can't, because more demand means more money to meet that demand. So nationalisation is a false solution. If more "equitable".
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Three things:

    1. This new ship. Great! Don't knock work being unveiled to "reinvigorate the shipbuilding industry". Probably worth pointing out though that we have been a major sea-faring power for a long time. The notion that it will be "distinct from any previous national flagship reflecting the UK's new status as an independent trading nation and helping us to seize the opportunities that status presents" is laughable. Year Zero was not 1996. Or 1973. We have spent centuries as an "independent trading nation" and have a long history of sending in flagships to "seize" opportunities.

    2. The Unite plot to spread itself through the party and oust Iain Duncan Starmer. If Unite was a force for good or change then perhaps I would get their plan. Instead Unite could get done under RICO laws in America and wasted £2m of member's money in an absurd legal action against a Labour MP.

    I keep making this point that its now absolutely clear that the hard left and the centre right can no longer occupy the same party. Their sole aim seems to be war against the other. The Labour brand is beyond tarnished anyway, let the nutters have it, and take the majority of members, MPs and the party machine away to do something relevant.

    3. Congratulations to Boris and Carrie! Boris better get writing some more books to pay for the inevitable divorce when he shags someone else again.

    It never ceases to amaze me how indignant second wives(who were partially responsible for the break up of their husbands first marriage) become when their husband buggers off with someone else..
    Surely one of the first things the second wife found out about her future husband, is that he’s the sort of man who cheats on his wife?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
    Read what I said

    Unless their is real evidence the NHS is being overwhelmed and the vaccine is not effective then yes, we cannot be held ransom to something which is not much more serious than flu in those contracting it
    Move over Whitty, Big G knows best, he’ll judge the evidence and tell us what to do.
    To be fair, his is not an isolated view. At some point, for the sake of the hospitality industry, social distancing needs to end. It looks likely now that masks are going to carry on, especially on public transport and in clinical settings. As others have said, we are not really in lockdown anymore. But the restrictions, as well as being ignored by some ( household mixing etc), are a drag on the economy.
    By some? By everyone.

    Since Barnard Castle everyone has taken the view that restrictions on other people are very important, but that it’s OK for them to use their judgement. After all, the Attorney General said that herself.

    As a result, the best argument for lifting restrictions is that they are being widely flouted anyway and bringing the law into disrepute. Like arbitrary speed limits imposed by councils obsessed with miles per hour ahead of planning proper junctions and road layouts that make people less likely to follow speed limits where they are important (e.g. outside schools and through roadworks).

    Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    alex_ said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
    Read what I said

    Unless their is real evidence the NHS is being overwhelmed and the vaccine is not effective then yes, we cannot be held ransom to something which is not much more serious than flu in those contracting it
    Move over Whitty, Big G knows best, he’ll judge the evidence and tell us what to do.
    I am not telling anyone what to do

    I am making the point about myself and others must take their own responsibility
    All through this pandemic there have been armchair experts claiming they know best, that they are responsible and speak for the majority. By and large they are total nutters.

    I am sad to see you want to join their ranks because, like the rest of us, are fed up. We are so close to getting out of this hell, now is not the time to go rogue.
    BigG in his post set criteria that he wants to see to be prevented from taking his own decisions. It is entirely reasonable for individual "armchair generals" to question why they should continue to obey the rules laid down by our superiors, when the proclaimed reasons for them are so far away from those we were given when we entered this whole thing. He is prepared to continue to follow if shown how by doing so is justified. But when hints are made that restrictions should continue to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed by non-Covid patients then it is entirely reasonable to ask questions about what is happening...
    Thank you.

    You make my point perfectly
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
    It has pissed me off mightily. Not the fact of them getting married. But the way the Catholic Church, the church I have on and off belonged to all my life, seems to have abandoned all pretence of believing in the 10 Commandments, especially the 6th one.

    We're all sinners deserving of mercy blah, blah, I know all that. But this same church, not content with overlooking the most revolting crimes against children by some of its priests, says that my gay son, born like that and, according to church doctrine, made in the image of God, is "disordered" and "intrinsically immoral".

    Well stuff that, frankly. If the church going to opine on immorality, it needs to take a good hard look at itself. I know who in that little group listed above is immoral and it isn't my son.
    I thought the whole point of being a catholic was that you could do what you like as long as you said sorry?

    Logically I don't see the point of converting to it until the very last minute.
    No - apologies are not enough. Repentance is needed: this is quite a lot harder. For one thing you need to promise - and mean it - not to do the bad thing ever again.
    Best done on the deathbed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769

    Wonder if Poots and the DUP have an opinion on Boris’s nuptials.

    Poots thinks Boris should undergo trial by dinosaur like early man did.
    Why? What did dinosaurs do to him?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,883
    IanB2 said:

    Whilst I think that this effect will probably ease off over time - people after all dislike Cummings much more - I think the government has been fairly constrained for the last 15 months and limited by the election for the 6 months prior to that. We have yet to see Boris on the open road and to be honest I think he won't be as popular as he is now. He will have to choose to focus on something and that will alienate some voters

    Spending £200m plus on a new ship of dubious utility seems to be his latest focus?
    HMY Britannia had utility to the RN as it was a dumping ground for alcoholics and incompetents who could be permanently drafted to it in the knowledge they couldn't fuck up anything important. See also HMS Endurance in the Antarctic. Although they did almost sink that.

    This more than anything indicates that Johnson is in it for the long haul. There is no way this fucking thing will be complete by the next GE and I'd say it's not certain it'll be commissioned by the GE after that. Mr and Mrs Johnson aren't going to miss out the chance to embark on for an imperial procession.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    IanB2 said:

    Indy: Boris Johnson falls out of favour with public as Tory poll lead slashed in wake of Cummings evidence

    Which one of the four polls out is that citing?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Cyclefree said:

    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
    It has pissed me off mightily. Not the fact of them getting married. But the way the Catholic Church, the church I have on and off belonged to all my life, seems to have abandoned all pretence of believing in the 10 Commandments, especially the 6th one.

    We're all sinners deserving of mercy blah, blah, I know all that. But this same church, not content with overlooking the most revolting crimes against children by some of its priests, says that my gay son, born like that and, according to church doctrine, made in the image of God, is "disordered" and "intrinsically immoral".

    Well stuff that, frankly. If the church going to opine on immorality, it needs to take a good hard look at itself. I know who in that little group listed above is immoral and it isn't my son.
    Join another church that is more welcoming. ROMAN Catholicism and the Church of England are not the only ones offering pastoral support.

    It's the CATHOLIC church to me - none of this Roman nonsense which is just the English trying to make us sound foreign as if England were the centre of the world.

    I'm not going to change. More likely I will gently drift away if it continues behaving like a pillock.

    I can't help feeling that in the upper reaches there is a Brideshead tendency which is a bit too enamoured with the idea of catching high profile people as converts or those returning to the faith and that this makes them a bit less diligent about the entry requirements.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884
    Sandpit said:

    Three things:

    1. This new ship. Great! Don't knock work being unveiled to "reinvigorate the shipbuilding industry". Probably worth pointing out though that we have been a major sea-faring power for a long time. The notion that it will be "distinct from any previous national flagship reflecting the UK's new status as an independent trading nation and helping us to seize the opportunities that status presents" is laughable. Year Zero was not 1996. Or 1973. We have spent centuries as an "independent trading nation" and have a long history of sending in flagships to "seize" opportunities.

    2. The Unite plot to spread itself through the party and oust Iain Duncan Starmer. If Unite was a force for good or change then perhaps I would get their plan. Instead Unite could get done under RICO laws in America and wasted £2m of member's money in an absurd legal action against a Labour MP.

    I keep making this point that its now absolutely clear that the hard left and the centre right can no longer occupy the same party. Their sole aim seems to be war against the other. The Labour brand is beyond tarnished anyway, let the nutters have it, and take the majority of members, MPs and the party machine away to do something relevant.

    3. Congratulations to Boris and Carrie! Boris better get writing some more books to pay for the inevitable divorce when he shags someone else again.

    It never ceases to amaze me how indignant second wives(who were partially responsible for the break up of their husbands first marriage) become when their husband buggers off with someone else..
    Surely one of the first things the second wife found out about her future husband, is that he’s the sort of man who cheats on his wife?
    Years ago I knew a guy who had had two kids with the first wife, then had an affair and went off to the next wife and had two more. Then had another affair and moved off to the third wife. Who had two children... You’d have to be worried at that point, right?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Fascinating reconstruction of the Tulsa massacre and the community it destroyed:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/24/us/tulsa-race-massacre.html
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    IanB2 said:

    Indy: Boris Johnson falls out of favour with public as Tory poll lead slashed in wake of Cummings evidence

    We I guess it sells newspapers,but the entire statement can be picked apart. One poll does not a summer make.
    The day the polls turned?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
    It has pissed me off mightily. Not the fact of them getting married. But the way the Catholic Church, the church I have on and off belonged to all my life, seems to have abandoned all pretence of believing in the 10 Commandments, especially the 6th one.

    We're all sinners deserving of mercy blah, blah, I know all that. But this same church, not content with overlooking the most revolting crimes against children by some of its priests, says that my gay son, born like that and, according to church doctrine, made in the image of God, is "disordered" and "intrinsically immoral".

    Well stuff that, frankly. If the church going to opine on immorality, it needs to take a good hard look at itself. I know who in that little group listed above is immoral and it isn't my son.
    Join another church that is more welcoming. ROMAN Catholicism and the Church of England are not the only ones offering pastoral support.

    It's the CATHOLIC church to me - none of this Roman nonsense which is just the English trying to make us sound foreign as if England were the centre of the world.

    Cyclefree tag teaming with HYUFD*! Never thought i'd see the day ;)

    (*see last night's late night ramblings)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038
    Cyclefree said:

    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
    It has pissed me off mightily. Not the fact of them getting married. But the way the Catholic Church, the church I have on and off belonged to all my life, seems to have abandoned all pretence of believing in the 10 Commandments, especially the 6th one.

    We're all sinners deserving of mercy blah, blah, I know all that. But this same church, not content with overlooking the most revolting crimes against children by some of its priests, says that my gay son, born like that and, according to church doctrine, made in the image of God, is "disordered" and "intrinsically immoral".

    Well stuff that, frankly. If the church going to opine on immorality, it needs to take a good hard look at itself. I know who in that little group listed above is immoral and it isn't my son.
    Yes, indeed.

    Also, and it's not something I have any issue with at all, if Carrie is a strong practicing Catholic then one presumes the priest might have had something to say about having a child out of wedlock.

    Hypocrisy is rife.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,883

    Sandpit said:

    Three things:

    1. This new ship. Great! Don't knock work being unveiled to "reinvigorate the shipbuilding industry". Probably worth pointing out though that we have been a major sea-faring power for a long time. The notion that it will be "distinct from any previous national flagship reflecting the UK's new status as an independent trading nation and helping us to seize the opportunities that status presents" is laughable. Year Zero was not 1996. Or 1973. We have spent centuries as an "independent trading nation" and have a long history of sending in flagships to "seize" opportunities.

    2. The Unite plot to spread itself through the party and oust Iain Duncan Starmer. If Unite was a force for good or change then perhaps I would get their plan. Instead Unite could get done under RICO laws in America and wasted £2m of member's money in an absurd legal action against a Labour MP.

    I keep making this point that its now absolutely clear that the hard left and the centre right can no longer occupy the same party. Their sole aim seems to be war against the other. The Labour brand is beyond tarnished anyway, let the nutters have it, and take the majority of members, MPs and the party machine away to do something relevant.

    3. Congratulations to Boris and Carrie! Boris better get writing some more books to pay for the inevitable divorce when he shags someone else again.

    It never ceases to amaze me how indignant second wives(who were partially responsible for the break up of their husbands first marriage) become when their husband buggers off with someone else..
    Surely one of the first things the second wife found out about her future husband, is that he’s the sort of man who cheats on his wife?
    Years ago I knew a guy who had had two kids with the first wife, then had an affair and went off to the next wife and had two more. Then had another affair and moved off to the third wife. Who had two children... You’d have to be worried at that point, right?
    I have an old shipmate who has married and divorced four flight attendants in succession. He has less money than Johnson.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038

    Wonder if Poots and the DUP have an opinion on Boris’s nuptials.

    They almost certainly will.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    alex_ said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
    Read what I said

    Unless their is real evidence the NHS is being overwhelmed and the vaccine is not effective then yes, we cannot be held ransom to something which is not much more serious than flu in those contracting it
    Move over Whitty, Big G knows best, he’ll judge the evidence and tell us what to do.
    I am not telling anyone what to do

    I am making the point about myself and others must take their own responsibility
    All through this pandemic there have been armchair experts claiming they know best, that they are responsible and speak for the majority. By and large they are total nutters.

    I am sad to see you want to join their ranks because, like the rest of us, are fed up. We are so close to getting out of this hell, now is not the time to go rogue.
    BigG in his post set criteria that he wants to see to be prevented from taking his own decisions. It is entirely reasonable for individual "armchair generals" to question why they should continue to obey the rules laid down by our superiors, when the proclaimed reasons for them are so far away from those we were given when we entered this whole thing. He is prepared to continue to follow if shown how by doing so is justified. But when hints are made that restrictions should continue to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed by non-Covid patients then it is entirely reasonable to ask questions about what is happening...
    Questioning experts is essential. Making up your own rules based on an amateur interpretation of data and Internet discussions, which is what BigG was actually saying, is something very different.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769
    Jonathan said:

    alex_ said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is possible this poll has identified a Cummings effect but it has not been evident in the other polls released since Cummings appearance so it is prudent to wait and see if this is a trend away from HMG

    The critical factor will be Boris's decision on opening the economy and we presently have a media obsessed with the zero covid narrative and simply not giving airtime to any other contrary views

    As I said yesterday I intend acting in a responsible manner but will make my own judgment on these matters

    It is time for HMG to step aside and trust the public as I fear the public are at the point where compliance to HMG edicts is going to evaporate anyway

    You can only keep the public prisoner to restrictions for so long and I believe the dam is about to burst, if it has not done so already

    The only way HMG will gain the trust of the public is if they provide detailed hospitalisation figures and clearly demonstrate the vaccine status of the patients and the media stops succumbing to and giving their platform to those who want to eliminate the disease

    So, in short, you’re intending to take the law into your own hands because you think you know best. I trust you’re happy for everyone else to do the same.

    Haven’t we seen people take similar positions repeatedly through the pandemic, whilst exponential growth quietly does its work undoing gains.

    Everyone is fed up with Covid, but it’s premature to say it’s all done and dusted and to go rogue.
    I have been vaccinated along with millions of others and unless there is real evidence to justify this present zero covid mantra then yes, I and millions of others willl decide our own freedoms in a responsible way
    So you, in your infinite wisdom, get to define what is ‘responsible’ for the management of this virus basically because your now are a bit fed up.
    Read what I said

    Unless their is real evidence the NHS is being overwhelmed and the vaccine is not effective then yes, we cannot be held ransom to something which is not much more serious than flu in those contracting it
    Move over Whitty, Big G knows best, he’ll judge the evidence and tell us what to do.
    I am not telling anyone what to do

    I am making the point about myself and others must take their own responsibility
    All through this pandemic there have been armchair experts claiming they know best, that they are responsible and speak for the majority. By and large they are total nutters.

    I am sad to see you want to join their ranks because, like the rest of us, are fed up. We are so close to getting out of this hell, now is not the time to go rogue.
    BigG in his post set criteria that he wants to see to be prevented from taking his own decisions. It is entirely reasonable for individual "armchair generals" to question why they should continue to obey the rules laid down by our superiors, when the proclaimed reasons for them are so far away from those we were given when we entered this whole thing. He is prepared to continue to follow if shown how by doing so is justified. But when hints are made that restrictions should continue to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed by non-Covid patients then it is entirely reasonable to ask questions about what is happening...
    Questioning experts is essential. Making up your own rules based on an amateur interpretation of data and Internet discussions, which is what BigG was actually saying, is something very different.
    But it’s what the government has been doing all along.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,288

    Sandpit said:

    Three things:

    1. This new ship. Great! Don't knock work being unveiled to "reinvigorate the shipbuilding industry". Probably worth pointing out though that we have been a major sea-faring power for a long time. The notion that it will be "distinct from any previous national flagship reflecting the UK's new status as an independent trading nation and helping us to seize the opportunities that status presents" is laughable. Year Zero was not 1996. Or 1973. We have spent centuries as an "independent trading nation" and have a long history of sending in flagships to "seize" opportunities.

    2. The Unite plot to spread itself through the party and oust Iain Duncan Starmer. If Unite was a force for good or change then perhaps I would get their plan. Instead Unite could get done under RICO laws in America and wasted £2m of member's money in an absurd legal action against a Labour MP.

    I keep making this point that its now absolutely clear that the hard left and the centre right can no longer occupy the same party. Their sole aim seems to be war against the other. The Labour brand is beyond tarnished anyway, let the nutters have it, and take the majority of members, MPs and the party machine away to do something relevant.

    3. Congratulations to Boris and Carrie! Boris better get writing some more books to pay for the inevitable divorce when he shags someone else again.

    It never ceases to amaze me how indignant second wives(who were partially responsible for the break up of their husbands first marriage) become when their husband buggers off with someone else..
    Surely one of the first things the second wife found out about her future husband, is that he’s the sort of man who cheats on his wife?
    Years ago I knew a guy who had had two kids with the first wife, then had an affair and went off to the next wife and had two more. Then had another affair and moved off to the third wife. Who had two children... You’d have to be worried at that point, right?
    About whether he could afford the child support for nos 5 and 6
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038

    Cyclefree said:

    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
    It has pissed me off mightily. Not the fact of them getting married. But the way the Catholic Church, the church I have on and off belonged to all my life, seems to have abandoned all pretence of believing in the 10 Commandments, especially the 6th one.

    We're all sinners deserving of mercy blah, blah, I know all that. But this same church, not content with overlooking the most revolting crimes against children by some of its priests, says that my gay son, born like that and, according to church doctrine, made in the image of God, is "disordered" and "intrinsically immoral".

    Well stuff that, frankly. If the church going to opine on immorality, it needs to take a good hard look at itself. I know who in that little group listed above is immoral and it isn't my son.
    I hear you. I found God as an adult, still believe in Him, but after some great years at specific flavours of groovy CofE churches have failed to find one since that isn't inflexibly hypocritical.
    There's a lot of collaboration between the Methodist /Evangelical and CofE churches in the parish where I live, locally. They're effectively in alliance.

    I went to the Evangelical one a lot as a child for Sunday school because the singing and dancing were more fun, frankly.

    However, the Catholic church still does its own thing. And the Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall definitely does its own thing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,724
    Cyclefree said:

    circlea said:

    can't help cynically thinking that the wedding was timed to diffuse fall-out from the Cummings appearance - afterall, "everything is political" - it would be interesting to see when it was booked in!

    I'm not sure about that. A greater slice of the public are likely to take more interest in the wedding than Cummings ramblings, particularly how Boris managed to get married in a Catholic church and whether/ if he's reconverted and what that might mean.

    It's a simple human interest story.
    As for what it means, it means - if Boris really is now a Catholic - that he can't recommend bishops for the CoE to HMQ. So Paul Dacre won't get made a Bishop as consolation for not getting the Ofcom job. So there is that, I suppose.
    IIRC he was 'born' a Catholic, then confirmed in the CoE at Eton.
    Story of his life; whatever seems a good idea at the time, I suppose.

    I believe Carrie has always been Catholic, though.
This discussion has been closed.