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A big question after this week is whether Johnson’s leader ratings are moving up or down – political

SystemSystem Posts: 12,162
edited May 2021 in General
imageA big question after this week is whether Johnson’s leader ratings are moving up or down – politicalbetting.com

We have now had the first leader ratings on the PM following the seven hour Cummings Commons committee appearance on Wednesday. Number Cruncher Politics finds 42% saying they are satisfied with Johnson and 45% dissatisfied. The only problem is that this appears to be the first time NCP has asked the question so we have nothing to compare them with.

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Comments

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2021
    We can compare them with Sir Keir’s, which are

    23 Satisfied
    48 Disatisfied

    So Boris leads by 19 on Gross Positives & 22 Net
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    Is that the big question? Not, is Boris half-way competent or honest or up to the job? Nixon won an election after Watergate, Blair after Iraq.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    Why is the Prime Minister running for a train? Don't they know who he is?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032

    Why is the Prime Minister running for a train? Don't they know who he is?
    The thing is it will resonate with thousands of rail passengers who do the same and regularly

    It is pure Boris
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Is this the first example of an ex PM coming out as trans & bisexual?


  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    edited May 2021

    Is that the big question? Not, is Boris half-way competent or honest or up to the job? Nixon won an election after Watergate, Blair after Iraq.

    The Watergate break in happened during the election campaign but the burglars didn't go on trial until a few weeks after the election so few people knew that they were connected to the Republican party at election time.
    I'll never understand why they did that, Nixon was always going to beat McGovern.

    Blair did lose votes after Iraq but the Tories largely backed his decision to join the Americans in the invasion and they didn't make a big election issue out of it.

    With out next election still 3 years away, there's plenty of time for Cummings to be forgotten about, he's shot his bolt so from now on, we'll be hearing less and less from him or about him.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    isam said:

    Is this the first example of an ex PM coming out as trans & bisexual?


    Dove Cameron out and proud. 🏳️‍🌈
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    edited May 2021
    8th?

    He/She/Whatever obvs likes games with feathers.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Most voters when polled don't support Boris. Most voters when polled don't vote Tory. The Tories are consistently on 40-45% and no other party has any time for Tory/centre right politics. So 42% approval ratings is enough. There are no doubt some who approve of Boris but vote Labour, just as there will be Kenneth Clarkeite Tories who vote Tory but disapprove of Boris.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    isam said:

    We can compare them with Sir Keir’s, which are

    23 Satisfied
    48 Disatisfied

    So Boris leads by 19 on Gross Positives & 22 Net

    One trusts that we are not talking about previous affairs here.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Another big question is why Boris could order a nuclear strike on Bournemouth and still have higher ratings than the Leader of the Opposition...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    isam said:

    We can compare them with Sir Keir’s, which are

    23 Satisfied
    48 Disatisfied

    So Boris leads by 19 on Gross Positives & 22 Net

    The 19 is more important than the 22, even if it's an inferior lead.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited May 2021

    Another big question is why Boris could order a nuclear strike on Bournemouth and still have higher ratings than the Leader of the Opposition...

    When your captor finally lets you out of the basement and you experience the hustle and bustle of reality, you will discover that the world works differently to your perceived view.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    DeClare said:

    Is that the big question? Not, is Boris half-way competent or honest or up to the job? Nixon won an election after Watergate, Blair after Iraq.

    The Watergate break in happened during the election campaign but the burglars didn't go on trial until a few weeks after the election so few people knew that they were connected to the Republican party at election time.
    I'll never understand why they did that, Nixon was always going to beat McGovern.

    Blair did lose votes after Iraq but the Tories largely backed his decision to join the Americans in the invasion and they didn't make a big election issue out of it.

    With out next election still 3 years away, there's plenty of time for Cummings to be forgotten about, he's shot his bolt so from now on, we'll be hearing less and less from him or about him.
    2005 was the year they did the Not Quite Debates. I remember Howard saying to the effect that even if he knew then what he knew now wrt to WMD, he would still have voted for the Iraq War. At which point, I and millions of others decided to tick the box for Charlie Kennedy.

    Equally it’s hard to see what would deprive Boris of his majority next time around. Winter lockdowns this year might do it I suppose.
  • O/T But just watched a press conference from California Governor Gavin Newsome. He freaks me out. Looks and acts like someone who would sell you a very bad investment.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:
    Another great campaigner, victor and national hero.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 2021

    Another big question is why Boris could order a nuclear strike on Bournemouth and still have higher ratings than the Leader of the Opposition...

    When your captor finally let's you out of the basement and you experience the hustle and bustle of reality, you will discover that the world works differently to your perceived view.
    Really? Which one of us was labouring under the comical delusion that Boris' wallpaper had the slightest political significance? Oh, right, it was you.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Another big question is why Boris could order a nuclear strike on Bournemouth and still have higher ratings than the Leader of the Opposition...

    When your captor finally let's you out of the basement and you experience the hustle and bustle of reality, you will discover that the world works differently to your perceived view.
    Really? Which of us was labouring under the comical delusion that Boris' wallpaper had the slightest political significance? Oh, right, it was you.
    And I still think at some point in the not too distant future, Johnson's wallpaper will resonate with voters. Not yet perhaps, but it will.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Scott_xP said:
    Another great campaigner, victor and national hero.
    He’s certainly a survivor.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    Most people - mistakenly, I think - really dislike Dominic Cummings, to the point where media was able to gleefully report - and show video of - members of the public demonstrating outside his house after the fake news that he was in favour of Herd Immunity. No doubt leading to exactly the sorts of situations that would be security concerns.

    I do wonder if journalists hate him because he essentially has the attitude of a journalist - that government is incompetent and needs sorting out - but he also has the same attitude towards journalism. He's one of them, but not.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 2021

    Another big question is why Boris could order a nuclear strike on Bournemouth and still have higher ratings than the Leader of the Opposition...

    When your captor finally let's you out of the basement and you experience the hustle and bustle of reality, you will discover that the world works differently to your perceived view.
    Really? Which of us was labouring under the comical delusion that Boris' wallpaper had the slightest political significance? Oh, right, it was you.
    And I still think at some point in the not too distant future, Johnson's wallpaper will resonate with voters. Not yet perhaps, but it will.
    Ah, of course, the desperate appeal to some unspecified time in the future when you'll be proved right in defiance of all the evidence to date. We really need to come up with a succinct term for that particular gambit, not least because of how common it is at the moment...

    'The Appeal to Futurity'? 'One-Dayism'? I like 'One-Dayism'.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    O/T But just watched a press conference from California Governor Gavin Newsome. He freaks me out. Looks and acts like someone who would sell you a very bad investment.

    I think he is still odds on to be not be recalled,
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    O/T But just watched a press conference from California Governor Gavin Newsome. He freaks me out. Looks and acts like someone who would sell you a very bad investment.

    Sounds bad. But I've just watched Lulu's cover of Mr Tambourine Man and am thus totally desensitised.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Another big question is why Boris could order a nuclear strike on Bournemouth and still have higher ratings than the Leader of the Opposition...

    When your captor finally let's you out of the basement and you experience the hustle and bustle of reality, you will discover that the world works differently to your perceived view.
    Really? Which of us was labouring under the comical delusion that Boris' wallpaper had the slightest political significance? Oh, right, it was you.
    And I still think at some point in the not too distant future, Johnson's wallpaper will resonate with voters. Not yet perhaps, but it will.
    Yep. When it rains, oh man it'll pour. And we'll have a brolly. Will I lend mine to those less fortunate? Not sure. I'm a nice guy but the sins of the Johnson fanbois are starting to really mount up.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    kinabalu said:

    Another big question is why Boris could order a nuclear strike on Bournemouth and still have higher ratings than the Leader of the Opposition...

    When your captor finally let's you out of the basement and you experience the hustle and bustle of reality, you will discover that the world works differently to your perceived view.
    Really? Which of us was labouring under the comical delusion that Boris' wallpaper had the slightest political significance? Oh, right, it was you.
    And I still think at some point in the not too distant future, Johnson's wallpaper will resonate with voters. Not yet perhaps, but it will.
    Yep. When it rains, oh man it'll pour. And we'll have a brolly. Will I lend mine to those less fortunate? Not sure. I'm a nice guy but the sins of the Johnson fanbois are starting to really mount up.
    When the storm clouds gather Johnson will be doing his impression of the Ned Beatty character in Deliverance.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,036
    edited May 2021
    Monkeys said:

    Most people - mistakenly, I think - really dislike Dominic Cummings, to the point where media was able to gleefully report - and show video of - members of the public demonstrating outside his house after the fake news that he was in favour of Herd Immunity. No doubt leading to exactly the sorts of situations that would be security concerns.

    I do wonder if journalists hate him because he essentially has the attitude of a journalist - that government is incompetent and needs sorting out - but he also has the same attitude towards journalism. He's one of them, but not.

    I think what annoys people is his well-developed, but ultimately solitary, sense of his own intellectual preeminence.

    People like him can go far on a favourable tide, but ultimately have no friends to fall back on when the tide goes out, as it does for everybody eventually.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    isam said:

    We can compare them with Sir Keir’s, which are

    23 Satisfied
    48 Disatisfied

    So Boris leads by 19 on Gross Positives & 22 Net

    The 19 is more important than the 22, even if it's an inferior lead.
    19 vs 22 is MoE stuff. Let's just say 20. JOHNSON leads Starmer by 20 here in May 21. Brexit and Covid hangover about to start. Election not for ages.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    edited May 2021
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    We can compare them with Sir Keir’s, which are

    23 Satisfied
    48 Disatisfied

    So Boris leads by 19 on Gross Positives & 22 Net

    The 19 is more important than the 22, even if it's an inferior lead.
    19 vs 22 is MoE stuff. Let's just say 20. JOHNSON leads Starmer by 20 here in May 21. Brexit and Covid hangover about to start. Election not for ages.
    He’s talking about the difference between gross and net. They aren’t measuring the same thing, so it’s nothing to do with MoE.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    I wonder whether we’ll still be talking about Cummings’ evidence to the HSC for as long as we’ve been talking about his ocular assessment methods.

    My bet is no, because entertaining though his malicious character assassinations were, they told us nothing we didn’t already know, while there’s every reason to suppose he was either totally mistaken or wilfully misleading on matters of fact.

    Rendering his evidence, as I have said before, of little value,
  • juniusjunius Posts: 73
    One day - sooner - or maybe, not so soon, - many will become aware that we have been taken in.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    BigRich said:

    O/T But just watched a press conference from California Governor Gavin Newsome. He freaks me out. Looks and acts like someone who would sell you a very bad investment.

    I think he is still odds on to be not be recalled,
    He won't be recalled, partly because he's been really lucky with timings (California is done with Covid) and partly because Caitlin Jenner is not a great alternative.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374

    kinabalu said:

    Another big question is why Boris could order a nuclear strike on Bournemouth and still have higher ratings than the Leader of the Opposition...

    When your captor finally let's you out of the basement and you experience the hustle and bustle of reality, you will discover that the world works differently to your perceived view.
    Really? Which of us was labouring under the comical delusion that Boris' wallpaper had the slightest political significance? Oh, right, it was you.
    And I still think at some point in the not too distant future, Johnson's wallpaper will resonate with voters. Not yet perhaps, but it will.
    Yep. When it rains, oh man it'll pour. And we'll have a brolly. Will I lend mine to those less fortunate? Not sure. I'm a nice guy but the sins of the Johnson fanbois are starting to really mount up.
    When the storm clouds gather Johnson will be doing his impression of the Ned Beatty character in Deliverance.
    Really? I thought he would be finding a fridge guaranteed to be waterproof.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    Official UFO hunters wanted (maybe)

    The Government may relaunch a team of UFO hunters in the wake of a US report into alien visitors, a senior defence source has revealed.

    Ever since the Ministry of Defence's dedicated UFO desk was disbanded in 2009, no agency has been responsible for monitoring the skies over Britain for unidentified flying objects.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/28/britains-x-files-governments-ufo-hunters-may-restart-search/ (£££)
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    Me too!!!!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    kinabalu said:

    O/T But just watched a press conference from California Governor Gavin Newsome. He freaks me out. Looks and acts like someone who would sell you a very bad investment.

    Sounds bad. But I've just watched Lulu's cover of Mr Tambourine Man and am thus totally desensitised.
    Have you heard William Shatner's?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Official UFO hunters wanted (maybe)

    The Government may relaunch a team of UFO hunters in the wake of a US report into alien visitors, a senior defence source has revealed.

    Ever since the Ministry of Defence's dedicated UFO desk was disbanded in 2009, no agency has been responsible for monitoring the skies over Britain for unidentified flying objects.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/28/britains-x-files-governments-ufo-hunters-may-restart-search/ (£££)

    More Z Cars than X-Files?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    RobD said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    We can compare them with Sir Keir’s, which are

    23 Satisfied
    48 Disatisfied

    So Boris leads by 19 on Gross Positives & 22 Net

    The 19 is more important than the 22, even if it's an inferior lead.
    19 vs 22 is MoE stuff. Let's just say 20. JOHNSON leads Starmer by 20 here in May 21. Brexit and Covid hangover about to start. Election not for ages.
    He’s talking about the difference between gross and net. They aren’t measuring the same thing, so it’s nothing to do with MoE.
    Yes ok Rob. But you take my main point. The cackling is premature. Let's see how things look in a year from now. If the Cons and Johnson still have big leads then, ok cackling will be justified. But this cackling right now is immature and wrong and reflects badly on people.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    ydoethur said:

    I wonder whether we’ll still be talking about Cummings’ evidence to the HSC for as long as we’ve been talking about his ocular assessment methods.

    My bet is no, because entertaining though his malicious character assassinations were, they told us nothing we didn’t already know, while there’s every reason to suppose he was either totally mistaken or wilfully misleading on matters of fact.

    Rendering his evidence, as I have said before, of little value,

    Six hours of he said, she said will have left most people bemused about the Cummings revelations. We'll find out at the next PMQs if SKS or SNP can make anything of it but I suspect the real audience was Conservative MPs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Monkeys said:

    Most people - mistakenly, I think - really dislike Dominic Cummings, to the point where media was able to gleefully report - and show video of - members of the public demonstrating outside his house after the fake news that he was in favour of Herd Immunity. No doubt leading to exactly the sorts of situations that would be security concerns.

    I do wonder if journalists hate him because he essentially has the attitude of a journalist - that government is incompetent and needs sorting out - but he also has the same attitude towards journalism. He's one of them, but not.

    I've decided to watch the entire 7 hours of his evidence. So far I've watched 2 hours.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    isam said:

    Is this the first example of an ex PM coming out as trans & bisexual?


    Dove Cameron out and proud. 🏳️‍🌈
    An article in Pigeon English?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ydoethur said:

    I wonder whether we’ll still be talking about Cummings’ evidence to the HSC for as long as we’ve been talking about his ocular assessment methods.

    My bet is no, because entertaining though his malicious character assassinations were, they told us nothing we didn’t already know, while there’s every reason to suppose he was either totally mistaken or wilfully misleading on matters of fact.

    Rendering his evidence, as I have said before, of little value,

    I think it is true that Cummings told you nothing on Wednesday that you didn't already know, or had assumed about Johnson and Hancock.

    He may however have down a seed of doubt into the minds of red wall voters. Particularly, I would say, the mums.

    It may not resonate now, but as the economy faulters it Cumming's testimony will be remembered, along with Carrie's wallpaper.

    But what about the 'v' shaped boom cry the fanbois? Anecdote alert, I was due to fly to NI this week, but got out of it. Huzzah! My business partner, nonetheless had to go. He said nothing has reopened at Bristol Airport, some of the shops, the big bar and Frankie and Bennies have all gone, and it looks permanent. When staying in Lisburn we occasionally eat at Frankie and Bennies in Sprucefield- gone for good too. Anyway next month and July we have tickets from Cardiff, so weyhey!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    edited May 2021
    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder whether we’ll still be talking about Cummings’ evidence to the HSC for as long as we’ve been talking about his ocular assessment methods.

    My bet is no, because entertaining though his malicious character assassinations were, they told us nothing we didn’t already know, while there’s every reason to suppose he was either totally mistaken or wilfully misleading on matters of fact.

    Rendering his evidence, as I have said before, of little value,

    I think it is true that Cummings told you nothing on Wednesday that you didn't already know, or had assumed about Johnson and Hancock.

    He may however have down a seed of doubt into the minds of red wall voters. Particularly, I would say, the mums.

    It may not resonate now, but as the economy faulters it Cumming's testimony will be remembered, along with Carrie's wallpaper.

    But what about the 'v' shaped boom cry the fanbois? Anecdote alert, I was due to fly to NI this week, but got out of it. Huzzah! My business partner, nonetheless had to go. He said nothing has reopened at Bristol Airport, some of the shops, the big bar and Frankie and Bennies have all gone, and it looks permanent. When staying in Lisburn we occasionally eat at Frankie and Bennies in Sprucefield- gone for good too. Anyway next month and July we have tickets from Cardiff, so weyhey!
    Cummings.. so last week.....
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    Andy_JS said:

    Monkeys said:

    Most people - mistakenly, I think - really dislike Dominic Cummings, to the point where media was able to gleefully report - and show video of - members of the public demonstrating outside his house after the fake news that he was in favour of Herd Immunity. No doubt leading to exactly the sorts of situations that would be security concerns.

    I do wonder if journalists hate him because he essentially has the attitude of a journalist - that government is incompetent and needs sorting out - but he also has the same attitude towards journalism. He's one of them, but not.

    I've decided to watch the entire 7 hours of his evidence. So far I've watched 2 hours.
    He's a historian, and he did it for the record.

    Rebecca Long-Bailey doesn't fail to disappoint in her questioning that manages to completely miss the point of everything said thus far.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638
    ydoethur said:

    I wonder whether we’ll still be talking about Cummings’ evidence to the HSC for as long as we’ve been talking about his ocular assessment methods.

    My bet is no, because entertaining though his malicious character assassinations were, they told us nothing we didn’t already know, while there’s every reason to suppose he was either totally mistaken or wilfully misleading on matters of fact.

    Rendering his evidence, as I have said before, of little value,

    I think the opposite. It is obvious to everyone Right or Left, Remain or Leaver that Cummings is a disloyal and disgruntled ex employee out for revenge, and willing to embroider the truth to do so, so I don't expect it to be much of a political hit in the short term.

    It will be of interest to political historians when they write of either the Pandemic, or of Johnsons regime. The descriptions of chaos, back biting and fueding between the Mekon and Carrie Antoinette, while the Emperor parades his new clothes will be very much of interest to the historians.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder whether we’ll still be talking about Cummings’ evidence to the HSC for as long as we’ve been talking about his ocular assessment methods.

    My bet is no, because entertaining though his malicious character assassinations were, they told us nothing we didn’t already know, while there’s every reason to suppose he was either totally mistaken or wilfully misleading on matters of fact.

    Rendering his evidence, as I have said before, of little value,

    I think the opposite. It is obvious to everyone Right or Left, Remain or Leaver that Cummings is a disloyal and disgruntled ex employee out for revenge, and willing to embroider the truth to do so, so I don't expect it to be much of a political hit in the short term.

    It will be of interest to political historians when they write of either the Pandemic, or of Johnsons regime. The descriptions of chaos, back biting and fueding between the Mekon and Carrie Antoinette, while the Emperor parades his new clothes will be very much of interest to the historians.
    Be careful.. Nigel Foremain's will have you for that as a brexiteer
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder whether we’ll still be talking about Cummings’ evidence to the HSC for as long as we’ve been talking about his ocular assessment methods.

    My bet is no, because entertaining though his malicious character assassinations were, they told us nothing we didn’t already know, while there’s every reason to suppose he was either totally mistaken or wilfully misleading on matters of fact.

    Rendering his evidence, as I have said before, of little value,

    I think the opposite. It is obvious to everyone Right or Left, Remain or Leaver that Cummings is a disloyal and disgruntled ex employee out for revenge, and willing to embroider the truth to do so, so I don't expect it to be much of a political hit in the short term.

    It will be of interest to political historians when they write of either the Pandemic, or of Johnsons regime. The descriptions of chaos, back biting and fueding between the Mekon and Carrie Antoinette, while the Emperor parades his new clothes will be very much of interest to the historians.
    Yes - but anyone paying attention already knew that. It will be one potential confirmatory strand of evidence.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    edited May 2021
    Monkeys said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Monkeys said:

    Most people - mistakenly, I think - really dislike Dominic Cummings, to the point where media was able to gleefully report - and show video of - members of the public demonstrating outside his house after the fake news that he was in favour of Herd Immunity. No doubt leading to exactly the sorts of situations that would be security concerns.

    I do wonder if journalists hate him because he essentially has the attitude of a journalist - that government is incompetent and needs sorting out - but he also has the same attitude towards journalism. He's one of them, but not.

    I've decided to watch the entire 7 hours of his evidence. So far I've watched 2 hours.
    He's a historian, and he did it for the record.

    Rebecca Long-Bailey doesn't fail to disappoint in her questioning that manages to completely miss the point of everything said thus far.
    A history degree from Oxford does not make somebody an historian.

    (As Fysics Teacher pointed out to me the other day when I called him a scientist.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder whether we’ll still be talking about Cummings’ evidence to the HSC for as long as we’ve been talking about his ocular assessment methods.

    My bet is no, because entertaining though his malicious character assassinations were, they told us nothing we didn’t already know, while there’s every reason to suppose he was either totally mistaken or wilfully misleading on matters of fact.

    Rendering his evidence, as I have said before, of little value,

    I think the opposite. It is obvious to everyone Right or Left, Remain or Leaver that Cummings is a disloyal and disgruntled ex employee out for revenge, and willing to embroider the truth to do so, so I don't expect it to be much of a political hit in the short term.

    It will be of interest to political historians when they write of either the Pandemic, or of Johnsons regime. The descriptions of chaos, back biting and fueding between the Mekon and Carrie Antoinette, while the Emperor parades his new clothes will be very much of interest to the historians.
    Yes - but anyone paying attention already knew that. It will be one potential confirmatory strand of evidence.
    Yes, but much of what we know is off the record. Cummings put it on the record, so that will be the bit cited.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Frickin aliens, man

    ALIENS
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,589

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder whether we’ll still be talking about Cummings’ evidence to the HSC for as long as we’ve been talking about his ocular assessment methods.

    My bet is no, because entertaining though his malicious character assassinations were, they told us nothing we didn’t already know, while there’s every reason to suppose he was either totally mistaken or wilfully misleading on matters of fact.

    Rendering his evidence, as I have said before, of little value,

    I think it is true that Cummings told you nothing on Wednesday that you didn't already know, or had assumed about Johnson and Hancock.

    He may however have down a seed of doubt into the minds of red wall voters. Particularly, I would say, the mums.

    It may not resonate now, but as the economy faulters it Cumming's testimony will be remembered, along with Carrie's wallpaper.

    But what about the 'v' shaped boom cry the fanbois? Anecdote alert, I was due to fly to NI this week, but got out of it. Huzzah! My business partner, nonetheless had to go. He said nothing has reopened at Bristol Airport, some of the shops, the big bar and Frankie and Bennies have all gone, and it looks permanent. When staying in Lisburn we occasionally eat at Frankie and Bennies in Sprucefield- gone for good too. Anyway next month and July we have tickets from Cardiff, so weyhey!
    It makes me feel bad to intrude upon the grief of a Frankie and Benny's addict but perhaps those closures might be because Frankie and Benny's is a bit crap and more than a bit overpriced.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited May 2021
    For those interested, here are some comments from one of the evolutationary virologists on the weekly biosecurity call I am on.

    "As you might expect from my comments in the past few weeks, I agree completely with this piece from Zeynep Tufekci.

    "https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/28/opinion/covid-vaccine-variants.html

    "Everyone's going to see this the virus. The more people who see the vaccine first, the fewer deaths and long-term health problems. But our race against the virus to reach people before it does keeps getting harder. We need a massive ramp up of vaccine production, yesterday."

    [My bold and italics]
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Leon said:

    Frickin aliens, man

    ALIENS

    Sunil, is that you?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Another big question is why Boris could order a nuclear strike on Bournemouth and still have higher ratings than the Leader of the Opposition...

    When your captor finally let's you out of the basement and you experience the hustle and bustle of reality, you will discover that the world works differently to your perceived view.
    Really? Which of us was labouring under the comical delusion that Boris' wallpaper had the slightest political significance? Oh, right, it was you.
    And I still think at some point in the not too distant future, Johnson's wallpaper will resonate with voters. Not yet perhaps, but it will.
    Ah, of course, the desperate appeal to some unspecified time in the future when you'll be proved right in defiance of all the evidence to date. We really need to come up with a succinct term for that particular gambit, not least because of how common it is at the moment...

    'The Appeal to Futurity'? 'One-Dayism'? I like 'One-Dayism'.
    οὐχ ὁράᾳς οἷος καὶ ἐγὼ καλός τε μέγας τε;
    πατρὸς δ' εἴμ' ἀγαθοῖο, θεὰ δέ με γείνατο μήτηρ:
    ἀλλ' ἔπι τοι καὶ ἐμοὶ θάνατος καὶ μοῖρα κραταιή:
    ἔσσεται ἢ ἠὼς ἢ δείλη ἢ μέσον ἦμαρ
    ὁππότε τις καὶ ἐμεῖο Ἄρῃ ἐκ θυμὸν ἕληται
    ἢ ὅ γε δουρὶ βαλὼν ἢ ἀπὸ νευρῆφιν ὀϊστῷ.

    And on that day what are you going to say? You never bother to make the case that Boris is doing a good job with the huge political capital he now has, so you won't be able to say Well, he had a good innings. You are just going to look silly, perhaps sooner then you think.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Frickin aliens, man

    ALIENS

    Sunil, is that you?
    We'd better get back, 'cause it'll be dark soon, and they mostly come at night... mostly.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder whether we’ll still be talking about Cummings’ evidence to the HSC for as long as we’ve been talking about his ocular assessment methods.

    My bet is no, because entertaining though his malicious character assassinations were, they told us nothing we didn’t already know, while there’s every reason to suppose he was either totally mistaken or wilfully misleading on matters of fact.

    Rendering his evidence, as I have said before, of little value,

    I think the opposite. It is obvious to everyone Right or Left, Remain or Leaver that Cummings is a disloyal and disgruntled ex employee out for revenge, and willing to embroider the truth to do so, so I don't expect it to be much of a political hit in the short term.

    It will be of interest to political historians when they write of either the Pandemic, or of Johnsons regime. The descriptions of chaos, back biting and fueding between the Mekon and Carrie Antoinette, while the Emperor parades his new clothes will be very much of interest to the historians.
    Yes - but anyone paying attention already knew that. It will be one potential confirmatory strand of evidence.
    Yes, but much of what we know is off the record. Cummings put it on the record, so that will be the bit cited.
    Cummings congratulated himself on having appointed Simon Case to Number 10. Boris is said to be suspicious of the Cabinet Secretary, who is also investigating whether donation rules were broken in Wallpapergate. Soap.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Late evening all :)

    In lieu of aliens, I thought I'd try a more reflective post.

    You can walk up East Ham High Street and you'd be hard pressed to think anything had happened. Only a couple of units remain unoccupied (and they are being worked on) and the High Street seems as bustling as ever.

    That's the thing - local perception can be local illusion or even local delusion.

    It's obvious in other areas retail has been severely damaged - walking up a quiet Villiers Street from Embankment to Leicester Square yesterday, the closures were there for all to see. Leicester Square too has been decimated in retail terms - Chinatown survives but there are gaps even in Gerrard and Lisle Streets. It's not as it was and the absence of tourists is being keenly felt.

    Today at the O2 and with the arena quiet, no more than half the restaurants were open and even in the Icon Outlet, there were gaps where there were no gaps soon after the place was opened. There were people around the O2 but passing through, enjoying the day and not really stopping for lunch.

    Obviously, the O2 is a special case and the return of the Arena will bring back the numbers and I'm sure the return of tourists in 2022 will help London but is there something else going on? Is traditional High Street retailing, like traditional office working, being transformed at speed by events and facing an uncertain future?

    I'm not sure - it may be local retail will be able to weather the storm - indeed, one can argue more people working at home should be good news for local shops and services.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    Leon said:

    Frickin aliens, man

    ALIENS

    Well, stop voting for them then.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    Don't see the relevance. Sindyref 1 didn't follow General Election franchise.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    Who gets the vote will be the same as those who would qualify for a Scottish passport in the event of independence. This must be announced by the Scottish government before any referendum. Tricky.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    edited May 2021
    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    That might happen but this is a Cameron/Osborne-era proposal, along with the seat reduction and gerrymandered boundary reviews. Ex-pats tend to vote blue, so the more the merrier.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    That might happen but this is a Cameron/Osborne-era proposal, along with the seat reduction and gerrymandered boundary reviews. Ex-pats tend to vote blue, so the more the merrier.
    Seat reduction is no longer happening, and really, gerrymandered?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    edited May 2021
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    That might happen but this is a Cameron/Osborne-era proposal, along with the seat reduction and gerrymandered boundary reviews. Ex-pats tend to vote blue, so the more the merrier.
    Seat reduction is no longer happening, and really, gerrymandered?
    Voter supression is. Straight out of the GOP playbook.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder whether we’ll still be talking about Cummings’ evidence to the HSC for as long as we’ve been talking about his ocular assessment methods.

    My bet is no, because entertaining though his malicious character assassinations were, they told us nothing we didn’t already know, while there’s every reason to suppose he was either totally mistaken or wilfully misleading on matters of fact.

    Rendering his evidence, as I have said before, of little value,

    I think it is true that Cummings told you nothing on Wednesday that you didn't already know, or had assumed about Johnson and Hancock.

    He may however have down a seed of doubt into the minds of red wall voters. Particularly, I would say, the mums.

    It may not resonate now, but as the economy faulters it Cumming's testimony will be remembered, along with Carrie's wallpaper.

    But what about the 'v' shaped boom cry the fanbois? Anecdote alert, I was due to fly to NI this week, but got out of it. Huzzah! My business partner, nonetheless had to go. He said nothing has reopened at Bristol Airport, some of the shops, the big bar and Frankie and Bennies have all gone, and it looks permanent. When staying in Lisburn we occasionally eat at Frankie and Bennies in Sprucefield- gone for good too. Anyway next month and July we have tickets from Cardiff, so weyhey!
    It makes me feel bad to intrude upon the grief of a Frankie and Benny's addict but perhaps those closures might be because Frankie and Benny's is a bit crap and more than a bit overpriced.
    Not a favourite of mine, unless working. My business partner is quite frugal with our expensesTwo courses for a tennerallow us the indulgence of a pint of Samual Adams' Boston beer each. Both the airport and the Lisburn branch were busy back in the day. My point is not a party political observation, just an observation. I fear for the post-pandemic post-boom economy. With a little luck, I will be wrong, and there will be no long term job losses, no inflation and no rate rises.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    2m
    TIMES: Plan to keep face masks if infections go on rising #TomorrowsPapersToday
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Whatever your politics, this is just..... unsettling

    The Post Millennial
    @TPostMillennial
    Joe Biden looks at a little girl in the audience, the daughter of a veteran, and says "I love those barrettes in your hair. Man I’ll tell you what, look at her she looks like she's 19 years old sitting there like a little lady with her legs crossed.""


    https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1398347198149152774

    Deeply, deeply uncomfortable
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    Another big question is why Boris could order a nuclear strike on Bournemouth and still have higher ratings than the Leader of the Opposition...

    When your captor finally let's you out of the basement and you experience the hustle and bustle of reality, you will discover that the world works differently to your perceived view.
    Really? Which of us was labouring under the comical delusion that Boris' wallpaper had the slightest political significance? Oh, right, it was you.
    And I still think at some point in the not too distant future, Johnson's wallpaper will resonate with voters. Not yet perhaps, but it will.
    Ah, of course, the desperate appeal to some unspecified time in the future when you'll be proved right in defiance of all the evidence to date. We really need to come up with a succinct term for that particular gambit, not least because of how common it is at the moment...

    'The Appeal to Futurity'? 'One-Dayism'? I like 'One-Dayism'.
    οὐχ ὁράᾳς οἷος καὶ ἐγὼ καλός τε μέγας τε;
    πατρὸς δ' εἴμ' ἀγαθοῖο, θεὰ δέ με γείνατο μήτηρ:
    ἀλλ' ἔπι τοι καὶ ἐμοὶ θάνατος καὶ μοῖρα κραταιή:
    ἔσσεται ἢ ἠὼς ἢ δείλη ἢ μέσον ἦμαρ
    ὁππότε τις καὶ ἐμεῖο Ἄρῃ ἐκ θυμὸν ἕληται
    ἢ ὅ γε δουρὶ βαλὼν ἢ ἀπὸ νευρῆφιν ὀϊστῷ.

    And on that day what are you going to say? You never bother to make the case that Boris is doing a good job with the huge political capital he now has, so you won't be able to say Well, he had a good innings. You are just going to look silly, perhaps sooner then you think.
    Yes, very good. But I'm not quite sure that Achilles' words to Lycaon before he refuses him mercy and cuts him to pieces necessarily prove your point. Death is as inevitable for heroes as eventual failure is for politicians, and as a paradoxical result so supremely important a fact of life doesn't actually matter all that much. What matters is the glory that comes before the eternal darkness, something Achilles achieves even as he overtly eschews it in the mad dash for vengeance that is his crowning aristeia. So for that matter does Boris, as he wins once-in-a-generation victories and overcomes once-in-a-century challenges less than two years into his premiership. If he left office tomorrow, his κλέος would still be ἄφθιτον...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    That might happen but this is a Cameron/Osborne-era proposal, along with the seat reduction and gerrymandered boundary reviews. Ex-pats tend to vote blue, so the more the merrier.
    Seat reduction is no longer happening, and really, gerrymandered?
    Voter supression is. Straight out of the GOP playbook.
    You really think GOP-scale voter suppression is happening in the UK?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638
    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    Who gets the vote will be the same as those who would qualify for a Scottish passport in the event of independence. This must be announced by the Scottish government before any referendum. Tricky.
    Over 16s on the Scottish electoral register. Sounds fairly straightforward to me.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638
    Leon said:

    Whatever your politics, this is just..... unsettling

    The Post Millennial
    @TPostMillennial
    Joe Biden looks at a little girl in the audience, the daughter of a veteran, and says "I love those barrettes in your hair. Man I’ll tell you what, look at her she looks like she's 19 years old sitting there like a little lady with her legs crossed.""


    https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1398347198149152774

    Deeply, deeply uncomfortable

    Almost Trumpian.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    RobD said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    That might happen but this is a Cameron/Osborne-era proposal, along with the seat reduction and gerrymandered boundary reviews. Ex-pats tend to vote blue, so the more the merrier.
    Seat reduction is no longer happening, and really, gerrymandered?
    Voter supression is. Straight out of the GOP playbook.
    You really think GOP-scale voter suppression is happening in the UK?
    No, but I think the new ID requirement the Tories want to introduce to vote is something they've copied from them
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    That might happen but this is a Cameron/Osborne-era proposal, along with the seat reduction and gerrymandered boundary reviews. Ex-pats tend to vote blue, so the more the merrier.
    Seat reduction is no longer happening, and really, gerrymandered?
    For want of a better word. Purge the electoral rolls and switch to individual registration, which makes high turnover areas seem less populated than they are, then assign seats. That was the plan. I believe American Republicans adopted the scheme. Ironically it probably ended Cameron's political career because it led to Brexit, as younger voters removed from the rolls were more likely to vote Remain.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    That might happen but this is a Cameron/Osborne-era proposal, along with the seat reduction and gerrymandered boundary reviews. Ex-pats tend to vote blue, so the more the merrier.
    Seat reduction is no longer happening, and really, gerrymandered?
    Voter supression is. Straight out of the GOP playbook.
    You really think GOP-scale voter suppression is happening in the UK?
    No, but I think the new ID requirement the Tories want to introduce to vote is something they've copied from them
    So they are the only country in the world that has a similar scheme?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    2m
    TIMES: Plan to keep face masks if infections go on rising #TomorrowsPapersToday

    As I sit here in wiltshire with 6 cases per 100,000 in the last week, I wonder what we’d have to do to get away from fucking masks. I do not apologise for swearing.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder whether we’ll still be talking about Cummings’ evidence to the HSC for as long as we’ve been talking about his ocular assessment methods.

    My bet is no, because entertaining though his malicious character assassinations were, they told us nothing we didn’t already know, while there’s every reason to suppose he was either totally mistaken or wilfully misleading on matters of fact.

    Rendering his evidence, as I have said before, of little value,

    I think it is true that Cummings told you nothing on Wednesday that you didn't already know, or had assumed about Johnson and Hancock.

    He may however have down a seed of doubt into the minds of red wall voters. Particularly, I would say, the mums.

    It may not resonate now, but as the economy faulters it Cumming's testimony will be remembered, along with Carrie's wallpaper.

    But what about the 'v' shaped boom cry the fanbois? Anecdote alert, I was due to fly to NI this week, but got out of it. Huzzah! My business partner, nonetheless had to go. He said nothing has reopened at Bristol Airport, some of the shops, the big bar and Frankie and Bennies have all gone, and it looks permanent. When staying in Lisburn we occasionally eat at Frankie and Bennies in Sprucefield- gone for good too. Anyway next month and July we have tickets from Cardiff, so weyhey!
    It makes me feel bad to intrude upon the grief of a Frankie and Benny's addict but perhaps those closures might be because Frankie and Benny's is a bit crap and more than a bit overpriced.
    Not a favourite of mine, unless working. My business partner is quite frugal with our expensesTwo courses for a tennerallow us the indulgence of a pint of Samual Adams' Boston beer each. Both the airport and the Lisburn branch were busy back in the day. My point is not a party political observation, just an observation. I fear for the post-pandemic post-boom economy. With a little luck, I will be wrong, and there will be no long term job losses, no inflation and no rate rises.
    I wandered through Leicester last Saturday running a few errands. Definitely quieter than an average wet May Saturday. A fair number of shops and cafes looked as if they will not be reopening.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    2m
    TIMES: Plan to keep face masks if infections go on rising #TomorrowsPapersToday

    As I sit here in wiltshire with 6 cases per 100,000 in the last week, I wonder what we’d have to do to get away from fucking masks. I do not apologise for swearing.
    One of them might have been you...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Whatever your politics, this is just..... unsettling

    The Post Millennial
    @TPostMillennial
    Joe Biden looks at a little girl in the audience, the daughter of a veteran, and says "I love those barrettes in your hair. Man I’ll tell you what, look at her she looks like she's 19 years old sitting there like a little lady with her legs crossed.""


    https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1398347198149152774

    Deeply, deeply uncomfortable

    Almost Trumpian.
    WORSE than Trump (who targets adults, as far as I know)

    Check this thread. It's probably written by a Trumpite, but who cares. I defy anyone to read this without coming away and thinking Who the F is in the White House

    https://twitter.com/RAMRANTS/status/930065838387863552?s=20

    Biden looks like a Jimmy Savile in plain sight. He does it IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA

    It is all intensely creepy
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    edited May 2021
    Leon said:

    Frickin aliens, man

    ALIENS

    doctor...DOCTOR!






















  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    RobD said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    That might happen but this is a Cameron/Osborne-era proposal, along with the seat reduction and gerrymandered boundary reviews. Ex-pats tend to vote blue, so the more the merrier.
    Seat reduction is no longer happening, and really, gerrymandered?
    Voter supression is. Straight out of the GOP playbook.
    You really think GOP-scale voter suppression is happening in the UK?
    No, but I think the new ID requirement the Tories want to introduce to vote is something they've copied from them
    So they are the only country in the world that has a similar scheme?
    I honestly have no idea. But it's well established that voter fraud in Britain is almost non existant, so why the hell do the Tories want to bring it in?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    2m
    TIMES: Plan to keep face masks if infections go on rising #TomorrowsPapersToday

    As I sit here in wiltshire with 6 cases per 100,000 in the last week, I wonder what we’d have to do to get away from fucking masks. I do not apologise for swearing.
    One of them might have been you...
    Very small odds, especially as I haven’t taken a test since feb and had both shots (last one 4 weeks ago).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    edited May 2021

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    That might happen but this is a Cameron/Osborne-era proposal, along with the seat reduction and gerrymandered boundary reviews. Ex-pats tend to vote blue, so the more the merrier.
    Seat reduction is no longer happening, and really, gerrymandered?
    For want of a better word. Purge the electoral rolls and switch to individual registration, which makes high turnover areas seem less populated than they are, then assign seats. That was the plan. I believe American Republicans adopted the scheme. Ironically it probably ended Cameron's political career because it led to Brexit, as younger voters removed from the rolls were more likely to vote Remain.
    But they weren’t excluded. At any time they could register. In fact the individual registration numbers are often quoted as being disastrous for the Tories in the run up to elections.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Soo... let's sum up the last 48 hrs.. despite Leon saying it wasn't a damp squib.. Cummings is last nights fish and chip paper.. Boris found not to have broken any rules over Wallpapergate.. polls not moved .. a good week for the incumbent dontcha think.....
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    Who gets the vote will be the same as those who would qualify for a Scottish passport in the event of independence. This must be announced by the Scottish government before any referendum. Tricky.
    Over 16s on the Scottish electoral register. Sounds fairly straightforward to me.
    That's not the issue here. The question is whether natural-born expatriate Scots, many living in England, get the vote. British expatriates are to have their vote restored to them.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Whatever your politics, this is just..... unsettling

    The Post Millennial
    @TPostMillennial
    Joe Biden looks at a little girl in the audience, the daughter of a veteran, and says "I love those barrettes in your hair. Man I’ll tell you what, look at her she looks like she's 19 years old sitting there like a little lady with her legs crossed.""


    https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1398347198149152774

    Deeply, deeply uncomfortable

    Almost Trumpian.
    WORSE than Trump (who targets adults, as far as I know)

    Check this thread. It's probably written by a Trumpite, but who cares. I defy anyone to read this without coming away and thinking Who the F is in the White House

    https://twitter.com/RAMRANTS/status/930065838387863552?s=20

    Biden looks like a Jimmy Savile in plain sight. He does it IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA

    It is all intensely creepy
    Didn't we do this sketch last year, in the run-up to the American election?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    That might happen but this is a Cameron/Osborne-era proposal, along with the seat reduction and gerrymandered boundary reviews. Ex-pats tend to vote blue, so the more the merrier.
    Seat reduction is no longer happening, and really, gerrymandered?
    For want of a better word. Purge the electoral rolls and switch to individual registration, which makes high turnover areas seem less populated than they are, then assign seats. That was the plan. I believe American Republicans adopted the scheme. Ironically it probably ended Cameron's political career because it led to Brexit, as younger voters removed from the rolls were more likely to vote Remain.
    That doesn't make sense. The latter point. Which younger voters were "removed" from the rolls, and (if wrongly) unable to re-register?

    I'm not quite sure how you can reliably use electoral rolls to determine seat population when some people (students particularly) can be registered in more than one place.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    That might happen but this is a Cameron/Osborne-era proposal, along with the seat reduction and gerrymandered boundary reviews. Ex-pats tend to vote blue, so the more the merrier.
    Seat reduction is no longer happening, and really, gerrymandered?
    Voter supression is. Straight out of the GOP playbook.
    You really think GOP-scale voter suppression is happening in the UK?
    No, but I think the new ID requirement the Tories want to introduce to vote is something they've copied from them
    So they are the only country in the world that has a similar scheme?
    I honestly have no idea. But it's well established that voter fraud in Britain is almost non existant, so why the hell do the Tories want to bring it in?
    Voter ID requirement is commonplace in Europe, for example. And has it been demonstrated? Easy to dismiss something if you aren’t looking for it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Owen Jones Rose
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    9h
    This polling was completed after Dominic Cummings' testimony.

    If Labour can't make progress after *Boris Johnson's number two told the nation that the government killed tens of thousands of people by being catastrophically shit* it needs to ask itself some pretty big questions!



    Maybe Owen. But I don't think you'll like the answers.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Jesus H. Christ - "scientist" on Sky now saying we need to stay locked down until everyone's had two doses months from now.

    F**k right off already now. This is religious by some people now.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Whatever your politics, this is just..... unsettling

    The Post Millennial
    @TPostMillennial
    Joe Biden looks at a little girl in the audience, the daughter of a veteran, and says "I love those barrettes in your hair. Man I’ll tell you what, look at her she looks like she's 19 years old sitting there like a little lady with her legs crossed.""


    https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1398347198149152774

    Deeply, deeply uncomfortable

    Almost Trumpian.
    WORSE than Trump (who targets adults, as far as I know)

    Check this thread. It's probably written by a Trumpite, but who cares. I defy anyone to read this without coming away and thinking Who the F is in the White House

    https://twitter.com/RAMRANTS/status/930065838387863552?s=20

    Biden looks like a Jimmy Savile in plain sight. He does it IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA

    It is all intensely creepy
    Didn't we do this sketch last year, in the run-up to the American election?
    Check out that thread. I challenge you, if you can come away thinking Biden is fit to be POTUS, then bravo.

    I cannot. This is a deeply weird man, who has no boundaries
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Eric Topol
    @EricTopol
    ·
    5h
    Lombardy, Italy was one of the worst-hit places in the world in the 1st wave of the pandemic. Now, a year later, how many had reinfections?
    0.3%
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638
    geoffw said:

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    Who gets the vote will be the same as those who would qualify for a Scottish passport in the event of independence. This must be announced by the Scottish government before any referendum. Tricky.
    Over 16s on the Scottish electoral register. Sounds fairly straightforward to me.
    That's not the issue here. The question is whether natural-born expatriate Scots, many living in England, get the vote. British expatriates are to have their vote restored to them.

    No Expat Scots in England are registered in a different constituency.

    Possibly a few expat Scots overseas may get the vote, such as Mr Connery in the Bahamas.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Jesus H. Christ - "scientist" on Sky now saying we need to stay locked down until everyone's had two doses months from now.

    F**k right off already now. This is religious by some people now.

    They have truly forgotten ‘protect the vulnerable’ haven’t they. Now, no one must die. Fuck business and fuck people’s mental health. I’ve gone very potty mouthed tonight. Not proud.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Jesus H. Christ - "scientist" on Sky now saying we need to stay locked down until everyone's had two doses months from now.

    F**k right off already now. This is religious by some people now.

    Pagel again?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638
    edited May 2021
    RobD said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Welcome news for some on here I think:
    Expats to get lifetime general elections vote as 15-year limit abolished
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    So my son in Spain is to be re-enfranchised.

    The Telegraph explains that Ministers believe expats should have a say because decisions made by MPs on areas such as foreign policy, defence, immigration, pensions, and trade deals affect them wherever they live.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/27/british-expats-get-lifetime-general-elections-vote-government/

    Reassuring to learn it is not just crude party advantage!
    It is surely preparing the ground, in the late 2020s, 2030s, for a new Sindyref. HMG will be able to say, Well this is the agreed franchise for general elections, so Scots-born people living in rUK must have a vote
    That might happen but this is a Cameron/Osborne-era proposal, along with the seat reduction and gerrymandered boundary reviews. Ex-pats tend to vote blue, so the more the merrier.
    Seat reduction is no longer happening, and really, gerrymandered?
    Voter supression is. Straight out of the GOP playbook.
    You really think GOP-scale voter suppression is happening in the UK?
    No, but I think the new ID requirement the Tories want to introduce to vote is something they've copied from them
    So they are the only country in the world that has a similar scheme?
    I honestly have no idea. But it's well established that voter fraud in Britain is almost non existant, so why the hell do the Tories want to bring it in?
    Voter ID requirement is commonplace in Europe, for example. And has it been demonstrated? Easy to dismiss something if you aren’t looking for it.
    Yes but ID cards are compulsory already in most of Europe. Hence everyone has one.

    It may well be that those disenfranchised are the ID free older CDE voters in the Red Wall.
This discussion has been closed.