I used to work with a former F3 pilot. There was something about his insistence, unprompted, when pissed, that it was the World's Best Fighter...
Often underestimated but it had to be flown to its strengths and experience with the platform and its systems really counted. One of the most one sided beatings we ever got in the Sea Harrier was in a 2v2 by the OEU 'Gauntlet Flight' F3s. AWACS was actually laughing at us.
But ultimately there's not much use having an aircraft that only a few sets of crews in the entire air force are capable of exploiting to its maximum.
So are you suggesting that we should intervene in a military capacity?
The UK is already intervening in a military capacity. It buys a lot of Israeli military hardware, hosts joint exercises in the UK for the IASF and the Chief of the Air Staff has just got back from an extended tour of Israeli air bases.
Having said that, the UK does send them Land Rover Defenders which can only impair the mobility of the IDF.
Punchline of the day 😆
I've heard it said that the big Tornado sale to Saudi Arabia was a two-for-the-price-of-one - it paid for alot of British jobs and it made sure that the Saudis spent their money on Tornados, rather than something better.
In the desert they would be better off with Mirage’s?
They nearly bought the Mirage 4000 which was a hot ship - it would do standstill to M2.0 at FL500 in under 4 minutes. In the end they bought the Mighty Eagle and the Mir4k was cancelled.
Shades of that mad F4 soup up they tried to buy - the one with literal tons of water injection.
Big story coming on Bellingcat this afternoon, expecting it about 2pm UK time.
Apparently not Russia related
US related seemingly. Could be interesting.
I've got it, it's aliens!
Overnight the DoD confirmed as genuine a video leak of radar data from the 2019 incident off the coast of LA, the video of which was leaked a couple of weeks ago. The radar confirms the reports of many objects “swarming” a warship before at least one entered the ocean, were not a) hyperbole, b) a glitch in the FLIR infrared camera, nor c) balloons (the radar confirmed speeds above 100mph).
So rather than being a child, perhaps‘s you’d like to consider that there are really only a couple of likely explanations at this point, neither of which should be taken lightly.
That the Chinese have developed a stealth sub that reached 100km from Santa Monica pier completely undetected, then launched a multitude of transmedium drones that buzzed US military assets for a couple of days, before being recovered by said stealth submarine, all without the best US naval assets and minds being able to see it coming, do very much about it or explain the tech. Not to mention like many of the other such reports, that there was an apparent break in the chain of command over the initial reporting of this incident.
Or... that it’s something else entirely more in line with the tic tac incidents. At which point we should consider the growing number of the most senior intelligence, political and military people in the US who are ready to publicly consider that at least some of these incidents “might not be of this world”, to use the words of one.
So are you suggesting that we should intervene in a military capacity?
The UK is already intervening in a military capacity. It buys a lot of Israeli military hardware, hosts joint exercises in the UK for the IASF and the Chief of the Air Staff has just got back from an extended tour of Israeli air bases.
Having said that, the UK does send them Land Rover Defenders which can only impair the mobility of the IDF.
Punchline of the day 😆
I've heard it said that the big Tornado sale to Saudi Arabia was a two-for-the-price-of-one - it paid for alot of British jobs and it made sure that the Saudis spent their money on Tornados, rather than something better.
In the desert they would be better off with Mirage’s?
They nearly bought the Mirage 4000 which was a hot ship - it would do standstill to M2.0 at FL500 in under 4 minutes. In the end they bought the Mighty Eagle and the Mir4k was cancelled.
My attempt at punchline of the day fell Fata Morgana.
Steering onto Hadden-Cave. The Public sector have to keep records, such as decision not to copy Americans and put flame retardant around fuel tanks, but the private sector in UK not compelled to keep such records? Keeping records of evidence Torpedoed the tobacco industry didn’t it?
How many have you been asked to self isolate in the last 3 months?
I dont have the App,
My wife does as do many friends and family, I do not know anybody who has been asked to isolated in the last 3 months.
Actually, I can only think of one time somebody I know was asked to isolated, it was my Brother who was phoned and texts 15 times, after his wife, tested positive. Which was all a bit pointless, as he had a test at the same time as her and also tested positive,
Mr. Pioneers, I, for one, am shocked that the French haven't given us Normandy, Anjou, Brittany, and Aquitaine back.
They can keep Calais though. It's a dump.
That's a shade harsh. It's not one of the great attractions of France, granted. It's ultimately just a standard large town/small city of the type you'd find almost anywhere, with a couple of things to see, some nice bits, and some not so nice bits. It's not unpleasant, just unremarkable.
Mr. Pioneers, I, for one, am shocked that the French haven't given us Normandy, Anjou, Brittany, and Aquitaine back.
They can keep Calais though. It's a dump.
That's a shade harsh. It's not one of the great attractions of France, granted. It's ultimately just a standard large town/small city of the type you'd find almost anywhere, with a couple of things to see, some nice bits, and some not so nice bits. It's not unpleasant, just unremarkable.
The bit between Dover to Calais is good fun. The bits before and after?? It’s not exactly like Wellington to Marlborough is it.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
How is it "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" than what is happening to the Kurds? Or the Uighur? Or the Tibetans? Or many more?
I'm not saying it's worse than other atrocities. I'm not doing a finely calibrated rating of one against the other.
And there's something else I don't do. When there happens to be a protest in the UK against something happening elsewhere I don't leap in and say either of the following -
That the people who feel strongly enough to join the protest have questions to answer if they are not also in the habit of protesting all and sundry other issues.
That a protest in the UK is inappropriate because it relates to things happening outside the UK.
What you're doing is imputing bad faith to a protest purely because you don't like the cause. It's no different to the negative stuff that gets said about BLM - although not by you in that case since there you DO like the cause.
Mr. Pioneers, I, for one, am shocked that the French haven't given us Normandy, Anjou, Brittany, and Aquitaine back.
They can keep Calais though. It's a dump.
That's a shade harsh. It's not one of the great attractions of France, granted. It's ultimately just a standard large town/small city of the type you'd find almost anywhere, with a couple of things to see, some nice bits, and some not so nice bits. It's not unpleasant, just unremarkable.
Plus...
According to various migrant campaign groups, the conditions for migrants in Calais are intolerable, and they need to be let into the UK.
So incorporating Calais into the UK would fix that. Bring the country to the migrants.....
So are you suggesting that we should intervene in a military capacity?
The UK is already intervening in a military capacity. It buys a lot of Israeli military hardware, hosts joint exercises in the UK for the IASF and the Chief of the Air Staff has just got back from an extended tour of Israeli air bases.
Having said that, the UK does send them Land Rover Defenders which can only impair the mobility of the IDF.
Punchline of the day 😆
I've heard it said that the big Tornado sale to Saudi Arabia was a two-for-the-price-of-one - it paid for alot of British jobs and it made sure that the Saudis spent their money on Tornados, rather than something better.
In the desert they would be better off with Mirage’s?
They nearly bought the Mirage 4000 which was a hot ship - it would do standstill to M2.0 at FL500 in under 4 minutes. In the end they bought the Mighty Eagle and the Mir4k was cancelled.
My attempt at punchline of the day fell Fata Morgana.
Steering onto Hadden-Cave. The Public sector have to keep records, such as decision not to copy Americans and put flame retardant around fuel tanks, but the private sector in UK not compelled to keep such records? Keeping records of evidence Torpedoed the tobacco industry didn’t it?
I wonder how many single doses of Johnson & Johnson we have and how soon it can be rolled out?
Given we're already at 1% of population per day, surging from here would be great news.
J&J will become the vaccine they give to initial refusers that they fear won't come back for a second dose.
You've got your finger on the pulse, will that be any time soon?
Sky saying "later this year" but later this year is surely too late? If we're supposed to be vaccinating everyone by end July - and as many as possible by 21 June - then how later is it going to be but still be useful?
I've heard end of July, it's not going to arrive soon enough for unlockdown.
I really think it's going to be used to sweep up refuseniks that want to go overseas. It's a good vaccine for that as you get it done in one shot and you can do it four weeks before flying to get ~70% efficacy against symptomatic COVID.
Right so essentially its too late for the vaccine rollout since that's meant to be done by end of July, but will be good for any refuseniks that change their mind and decide to go for it afterall?
Yes, that's my understanding of how the government wants to deploy it. Anyone who gets vaccinated in the next few weeks will get Pfizer/Moderna for under 40s or AZ for over 40s and then 4-8 weeks later they'll get their second dose.
I understand the UK government are siding with Biden in pushing for vaccine IPR to be surrendered to the world - something I was told on this blog was impossible to do?
How many have you been asked to self isolate in the last 3 months?
I dont have the App,
My wife does as do many friends and family, I do not know anybody who has been asked to isolated in the last 3 months.
Actually, I can only think of one time somebody I know was asked to isolated, it was my Brother who was phoned and texts 15 times, after his wife, tested positive. Which was all a bit pointless, as he had a test at the same time as her and also tested positive,
I didn’t bother with it, either.
Being part of the IOW trial app, which I dutifully carried round for a month before we were told that it didn’t work, dented my enthusiasm for trying again. And hearing that if the App told you out of the blue to isolate, it was then an offence not to, put me off further.
I have however downloaded the NHS App and it is good to see the vaccination confirmation displayed there, which it says will be good for foreign travel as and when it becomes practicable again.
I wonder how many single doses of Johnson & Johnson we have and how soon it can be rolled out?
Given we're already at 1% of population per day, surging from here would be great news.
J&J will become the vaccine they give to initial refusers that they fear won't come back for a second dose.
You've got your finger on the pulse, will that be any time soon?
Sky saying "later this year" but later this year is surely too late? If we're supposed to be vaccinating everyone by end July - and as many as possible by 21 June - then how later is it going to be but still be useful?
I've heard end of July, it's not going to arrive soon enough for unlockdown.
I really think it's going to be used to sweep up refuseniks that want to go overseas. It's a good vaccine for that as you get it done in one shot and you can do it four weeks before flying to get ~70% efficacy against symptomatic COVID.
Right so essentially its too late for the vaccine rollout since that's meant to be done by end of July, but will be good for any refuseniks that change their mind and decide to go for it afterall?
Yes, that's my understanding of how the government wants to deploy it. Anyone who gets vaccinated in the next few weeks will get Pfizer/Moderna for under 40s or AZ for over 40s and then 4-8 weeks later they'll get their second dose.
I understand the UK government are siding with Biden in pushing for vaccine IPR to be surrendered to the world - something I was told on this blog was impossible to do?
I haven't seen that, do you have a link? Aiui the position was that IP should be respected and companies should step up and forego profits while the pandemic is still going as AZN have done. If that's changed I'd be interested to read about it.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
How is it "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" than what is happening to the Kurds? Or the Uighur? Or the Tibetans? Or many more?
I'm not saying it's worse than other atrocities. I'm not doing a finely calibrated rating of one against the other.
And there's something else I don't do. When there happens to be a protest in the UK against something happening elsewhere I don't leap in and say either of the following -
That the people who feel strongly enough to join the protest have questions to answer if they are not also in the habit of protesting all and sundry other issues.
That a protest in the UK is inappropriate because it relates to things happening outside the UK.
What you're doing is imputing bad faith to a protest purely because you don't like the cause. It's no different to the negative stuff that gets said about BLM - although not by you in that case since there you DO like the cause.
You're the one who used the words "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" so I think its fair to ask how that applies.
Just because people are protesting doesn't justify their protest. If people are protesting because they dislike oppression a la Kurds, Tibet, Uighur and Palestine etc consistently then I respect that.
If people are protesting because they dislike Jews, then that's no better than an EDL one.
Big story coming on Bellingcat this afternoon, expecting it about 2pm UK time.
Apparently not Russia related
US related seemingly. Could be interesting.
I've got it, it's aliens!
Overnight the DoD confirmed as genuine a video leak of radar data from the 2019 incident off the coast of LA, the video of which was leaked a couple of weeks ago. The radar confirms the reports of many objects “swarming” a warship before at least one entered the ocean, were not a) hyperbole, b) a glitch in the FLIR infrared camera, nor c) balloons (the radar confirmed speeds above 100mph).
So rather than being a child, perhaps‘s you’d like to consider that there are really only a couple of likely explanations at this point, neither of which should be taken lightly.
That the Chinese have developed a stealth sub that reached 100km from Santa Monica pier completely undetected, then launched a multitude of transmedium drones that buzzed US military assets for a couple of days, before being recovered by said stealth submarine, all without the best US naval assets and minds being able to see it coming, do very much about it or explain the tech. Not to mention like many of the other such reports, that there was an apparent break in the chain of command over the initial reporting of this incident.
Or... that it’s something else entirely more in line with the tic tac incidents. At which point we should consider the growing number of the most senior intelligence, political and military people in the US who are ready to publicly consider that at least some of these incidents “might not be of this world”, to use the words of one.
I was just making a joke! While I think that it being aliens is unlikely, the lack of obvious motive for *why* these statements are being released and the more likely explanations being rather unpalatable (as you outline) does make me a bit nervous.
Big story coming on Bellingcat this afternoon, expecting it about 2pm UK time.
Apparently not Russia related
US related seemingly. Could be interesting.
I've got it, it's aliens!
Overnight the DoD confirmed as genuine a video leak of radar data from the 2019 incident off the coast of LA, the video of which was leaked a couple of weeks ago. The radar confirms the reports of many objects “swarming” a warship before at least one entered the ocean, were not a) hyperbole, b) a glitch in the FLIR infrared camera, nor c) balloons (the radar confirmed speeds above 100mph).
So rather than being a child, perhaps‘s you’d like to consider that there are really only a couple of likely explanations at this point, neither of which should be taken lightly.
That the Chinese have developed a stealth sub that reached 100km from Santa Monica pier completely undetected, then launched a multitude of transmedium drones that buzzed US military assets for a couple of days, before being recovered by said stealth submarine, all without the best US naval assets and minds being able to see it coming, do very much about it or explain the tech. Not to mention like many of the other such reports, that there was an apparent break in the chain of command over the initial reporting of this incident.
Or... that it’s something else entirely more in line with the tic tac incidents. At which point we should consider the growing number of the most senior intelligence, political and military people in the US who are ready to publicly consider that at least some of these incidents “might not be of this world”, to use the words of one.
Some of those drones disappeared upwards outside the radar envelope - so what, 80 thousand feet plus?
China, Russia or someone / something else that is some jump in technology for a drone
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
How is it "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" than what is happening to the Kurds? Or the Uighur? Or the Tibetans? Or many more?
I'm not saying it's worse than other atrocities. I'm not doing a finely calibrated rating of one against the other.
And there's something else I don't do. When there happens to be a protest in the UK against something happening elsewhere I don't leap in and say either of the following -
That the people who feel strongly enough to join the protest have questions to answer if they are not also in the habit of protesting all and sundry other issues.
That a protest in the UK is inappropriate because it relates to things happening outside the UK.
What you're doing is imputing bad faith to a protest purely because you don't like the cause. It's no different to the negative stuff that gets said about BLM - although not by you in that case since there you DO like the cause.
You're the one who used the words "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" so I think its fair to ask how that applies.
Just because people are protesting doesn't justify their protest. If people are protesting because they dislike oppression a la Kurds, Tibet, Uighur and Palestine etc consistently then I respect that.
If people are protesting because they dislike Jews, then that's no better than an EDL one.
@Isam posted a picture the subtext of which is that we have come to a pretty pass when a section of British people are being advised to stay at home when another section of British people are protesting as the assumption (with evidence from the last publicised such protest) is that it will get violent and abusive, perhaps criminally so, towards the former set of British people, in this case Jews.
@Gardenwalker, who I have no doubt is race-blind, took it to be just "British people" not in particular Jews and responded as such and with reference to the particular grouping which @isam posted, hence the "maybe the Luton Jews...". In so doing, however, he invoked age old anti-semitic tropes (such as blaming the Jews for Israeli action) and then people rightly called out those tropes.
Oh and then a bunch of bozos jumped in which, in typical fashion, reflected their own positions on the one hand of an Israeli-hating British Jew, and on the other of a leftie who has no real confidence in his own convictions and hence tries to skip around making "correct" pronouncements which add nothing to the debate.
Big story coming on Bellingcat this afternoon, expecting it about 2pm UK time.
Apparently not Russia related
US related seemingly. Could be interesting.
I've got it, it's aliens!
Overnight the DoD confirmed as genuine a video leak of radar data from the 2019 incident off the coast of LA, the video of which was leaked a couple of weeks ago. The radar confirms the reports of many objects “swarming” a warship before at least one entered the ocean, were not a) hyperbole, b) a glitch in the FLIR infrared camera, nor c) balloons (the radar confirmed speeds above 100mph).
So rather than being a child, perhaps‘s you’d like to consider that there are really only a couple of likely explanations at this point, neither of which should be taken lightly.
That the Chinese have developed a stealth sub that reached 100km from Santa Monica pier completely undetected, then launched a multitude of transmedium drones that buzzed US military assets for a couple of days, before being recovered by said stealth submarine, all without the best US naval assets and minds being able to see it coming, do very much about it or explain the tech. Not to mention like many of the other such reports, that there was an apparent break in the chain of command over the initial reporting of this incident.
Or... that it’s something else entirely more in line with the tic tac incidents. At which point we should consider the growing number of the most senior intelligence, political and military people in the US who are ready to publicly consider that at least some of these incidents “might not be of this world”, to use the words of one.
"Ultimately, the methodical elimination of various explanations for these phenomena – from mundane factors, ultra-secret U.S. aircraft or a plot to boost defense spending – leaves two possibilities, both of which have startling implications: Either a foreign nation has developed remarkable technical capabilities or U.S. military personnel observed “non-human technology” in American airspace.
"To be sure, any revelation that Russia, China or another foreign power has developed technology capable of defying the laws of physics and aerodynamics (while managing to keep it secret since at least 2004) would amount to the most significant national security development since the dawn of the nuclear age.
"At the same time, there is no conclusive evidence that these encounters involve objects of extraterrestrial origin. But the mere fact that the U.S. government, with its nearly unlimited investigatory capabilities, is reportedly considering “alien” technology as an explanation for these phenomena is a jaw-dropping development."
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
How is it "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" than what is happening to the Kurds? Or the Uighur? Or the Tibetans? Or many more?
I'm not saying it's worse than other atrocities. I'm not doing a finely calibrated rating of one against the other.
And there's something else I don't do. When there happens to be a protest in the UK against something happening elsewhere I don't leap in and say either of the following -
That the people who feel strongly enough to join the protest have questions to answer if they are not also in the habit of protesting all and sundry other issues.
That a protest in the UK is inappropriate because it relates to things happening outside the UK.
What you're doing is imputing bad faith to a protest purely because you don't like the cause. It's no different to the negative stuff that gets said about BLM - although not by you in that case since there you DO like the cause.
You're the one who used the words "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" so I think its fair to ask how that applies.
Just because people are protesting doesn't justify their protest. If people are protesting because they dislike oppression a la Kurds, Tibet, Uighur and Palestine etc consistently then I respect that.
If people are protesting because they dislike Jews, then that's no better than an EDL one.
I sense you get my point. Good.
No I don't get your point. You seem to want to justify this, without justifying it, because you know its unjustifiable.
Please can you say how it is "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)", or please can you say that it isn't and those words were inappropriate?
I wonder how many single doses of Johnson & Johnson we have and how soon it can be rolled out?
Given we're already at 1% of population per day, surging from here would be great news.
J&J will become the vaccine they give to initial refusers that they fear won't come back for a second dose.
You've got your finger on the pulse, will that be any time soon?
Sky saying "later this year" but later this year is surely too late? If we're supposed to be vaccinating everyone by end July - and as many as possible by 21 June - then how later is it going to be but still be useful?
I've heard end of July, it's not going to arrive soon enough for unlockdown.
I really think it's going to be used to sweep up refuseniks that want to go overseas. It's a good vaccine for that as you get it done in one shot and you can do it four weeks before flying to get ~70% efficacy against symptomatic COVID.
Right so essentially its too late for the vaccine rollout since that's meant to be done by end of July, but will be good for any refuseniks that change their mind and decide to go for it afterall?
Yes, that's my understanding of how the government wants to deploy it. Anyone who gets vaccinated in the next few weeks will get Pfizer/Moderna for under 40s or AZ for over 40s and then 4-8 weeks later they'll get their second dose.
I understand the UK government are siding with Biden in pushing for vaccine IPR to be surrendered to the world - something I was told on this blog was impossible to do?
I haven't seen that, do you have a link? Aiui the position was that IP should be respected and companies should step up and forego profits while the pandemic is still going as AZN have done. If that's changed I'd be interested to read about it.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
How is it "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" than what is happening to the Kurds? Or the Uighur? Or the Tibetans? Or many more?
I'm not saying it's worse than other atrocities. I'm not doing a finely calibrated rating of one against the other.
And there's something else I don't do. When there happens to be a protest in the UK against something happening elsewhere I don't leap in and say either of the following -
That the people who feel strongly enough to join the protest have questions to answer if they are not also in the habit of protesting all and sundry other issues.
That a protest in the UK is inappropriate because it relates to things happening outside the UK.
What you're doing is imputing bad faith to a protest purely because you don't like the cause. It's no different to the negative stuff that gets said about BLM - although not by you in that case since there you DO like the cause.
You're the one who used the words "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" so I think its fair to ask how that applies.
Just because people are protesting doesn't justify their protest. If people are protesting because they dislike oppression a la Kurds, Tibet, Uighur and Palestine etc consistently then I respect that.
If people are protesting because they dislike Jews, then that's no better than an EDL one.
I sense you get my point. Good.
No I don't get your point. You seem to want to justify this, without justifying it, because you know its unjustifiable.
Please can you say how it is "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)", or please can you say that it isn't and those words were inappropriate?
Yeah don't forget that although @kini is clueless on UK black/white race he believes he is on far firmer footing with Israel/Palestine. There is a more established body of left wing literature on the subject which he draws upon in the absence of an opinion of his own. So expect a few back and forths.
US soldiers stationed on European bases that host nuclear weapons have exposed a multitude of sensitive security details -- including where weapons are stored & secret duress words -- by using flashcard learning apps that appear publicly in online searches
US soldiers stationed on European bases that host nuclear weapons have exposed a multitude of sensitive security details -- including where weapons are stored & secret duress words -- by using flashcard learning apps that appear publicly in online searches
ONS survey confirming the virus increasing much faster in Scotland.
Any idea why?
Rangers won the league?
Quite possibly given the Glasgow numbers?
Certainly the celebrations of the Scottish Champions seem to be very different to the celebrations of the English ones both of Man City and of Liverpool last year.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
US soldiers stationed on European bases that host nuclear weapons have exposed a multitude of sensitive security details -- including where weapons are stored & secret duress words -- by using flashcard learning apps that appear publicly in online searches
...[Screaming out "Fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, free Palestine"]... might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
NICOLA Sturgeon has warned people not to follow the example set by Scottish Green co-leader Patrick Harvie, who this week broke Covid rules to have a pint.
Mr Harvie and two other Green MSPs, co-leader Lorna Slater and Ross Greer, and a fourth person were caught breaking the three household limit in an Edinburgh bar on Tuesday.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
It seems to me to be at least equally important to stop "negative commentary on Israel" being used as dog-whistle antisemitism.
Apparently it's far more important to you to be able to criticise a foreign country's policy than it is to prevent actual racist abuse against your fellow citizens. This feels, to put it mildly, a fair way out of synch with your usual commentary on race-related issues.
I'm always disappointed when this happens, but not surprised. Not any more.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
Do you not find it a little suspicious that the middle east conflict is such a cause celebre for so many people, particularly those on the far left? The behaviour of Israel is often atrocious, and though it doesn't excuse them, there are probably hundreds of regimes around the world who are considerably worse.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
I like a laugh as much as the next man, but try as I might I can't find a rich seam of humour in the public's indifference to government screw ups on coronavirus.
That's the thing about the public - they're on an altogether different level to you. I find that highly amusing.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
Do you not find it a little suspicious that the middle east conflict is such a cause celebre for so many people, particularly those on the far left? The behaviour of Israel is often atrocious, and though it doesn't excuse them, there are probably hundreds of regimes around the world who are considerably worse.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
Because many of the protesters think British Jews are responsible. Because they are anti-semitic. I think the Israeli government is appalling - but they're hardly alone. It is very odd that so much fuss is made about Israel and so little about all of the other states butchering and oppressing.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
I don’t get this criticism. Is it sinophobic to focus on Chinese abuse?
As far as I can tell, Israel enlivens passions because it is seen on the hard left through the prism of anti-imperialist critique.
In turn this can curdle into anti-semitism, a la Livingstone, although as @Roger explains it is very hard to separate legitimate criticism of Israel from a racist criticism of Jewish people; and that in turns suits some Israeli apologists and elements of the Right.
Its really simple. Legitimate criticism of Israel (and there is a LOT to criticise) should be aimed at Israel. Far too many - including the protesters in question - aim it at British Jews.
Equating Jews with Israel is anti-semitism.
I think you should calm down here a bit. It is possible @Gardenwalker made a statement that could be misinterpreted, but I think accusing him of anti-Semitism is a bit much TBH
I haven't accused him. I said he toed the line - just. The protestors - and the hard left loons - who equate British Jews with Israel are the anti-semites. That does not include @Gardenwalker
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
Do you not find it a little suspicious that the middle east conflict is such a cause celebre for so many people, particularly those on the far left? The behaviour of Israel is often atrocious, and though it doesn't excuse them, there are probably hundreds of regimes around the world who are considerably worse.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
There is a reason that some have said that "Anti-semitism is the socialism of fools" - plenty of people, historically, have fallen into that cesspit.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
Do you not find it a little suspicious that the middle east conflict is such a cause celebre for so many people, particularly those on the far left? The behaviour of Israel is often atrocious, and though it doesn't excuse them, there are probably hundreds of regimes around the world who are considerably worse.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
It does - and some of it has permeated parts of the Labour party often unchallenged, not least because there is a considerable voting bloc involved in some constituencies.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Two other long-standing issues on the other side:
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works 2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
When you say "character and guts", are you referring to our prime minister?
Funny how Brexity folk obsess about WW2 and yet have such a limited knowledge of the history of that conflict. Too much reading war comics I guess.
I suggest Mr. Fishing reads a little about Norwegian resistance against occupation before he insults their national character.
I never mentioned World War 2 and have never read a WW2 comic. Why are Remainers so obsessed by that conflict? They bring it up all the time.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
Do you not find it a little suspicious that the middle east conflict is such a cause celebre for so many people, particularly those on the far left? The behaviour of Israel is often atrocious, and though it doesn't excuse them, there are probably hundreds of regimes around the world who are considerably worse.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
There is a reason that some have said that "Anti-semitism is the socialism of fools" - plenty of people, historically, have fallen into that cesspit.
Interesting quote. It suggests that socialism in it's normal non-antisemitic form is not for fools!
Brave BJ will be giving Orban a hard time today over his relationship with antisemitism, right? Perhaps a little more diffident over the Islamophobia, mind.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
Do you not find it a little suspicious that the middle east conflict is such a cause celebre for so many people, particularly those on the far left? The behaviour of Israel is often atrocious, and though it doesn't excuse them, there are probably hundreds of regimes around the world who are considerably worse.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
There is a reason that some have said that "Anti-semitism is the socialism of fools" - plenty of people, historically, have fallen into that cesspit.
Interesting quote. It suggests that socialism in it's normal non-antisemitic form is not for fools!
It was made by proud Socialists who regarded falling into anti-semitism as grotesque.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
How is it "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" than what is happening to the Kurds? Or the Uighur? Or the Tibetans? Or many more?
I'm not saying it's worse than other atrocities. I'm not doing a finely calibrated rating of one against the other.
And there's something else I don't do. When there happens to be a protest in the UK against something happening elsewhere I don't leap in and say either of the following -
That the people who feel strongly enough to join the protest have questions to answer if they are not also in the habit of protesting all and sundry other issues.
That a protest in the UK is inappropriate because it relates to things happening outside the UK.
What you're doing is imputing bad faith to a protest purely because you don't like the cause. It's no different to the negative stuff that gets said about BLM - although not by you in that case since there you DO like the cause.
You're the one who used the words "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" so I think its fair to ask how that applies.
Just because people are protesting doesn't justify their protest. If people are protesting because they dislike oppression a la Kurds, Tibet, Uighur and Palestine etc consistently then I respect that.
If people are protesting because they dislike Jews, then that's no better than an EDL one.
I sense you get my point. Good.
No I don't get your point. You seem to want to justify this, without justifying it, because you know its unjustifiable.
Please can you say how it is "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)", or please can you say that it isn't and those words were inappropriate?
Ah ok. Just the once more then. I have a few minutes.
Assume there are 26 different atrocities going on in the world outside the UK - one for every letter of the alphabet, A to Z. And there's a protest going on in London about one of them. About M.
So now a common technique adopted by people who dislike and disagree with the protesters (against M) is to say the following -
"How come these people are not protesting against A thru L, and N thru Z? They're hypocrites!"
This is what you're doing here. Where M = Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.
Compare with if there were a protest where M = the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs.
Would you in that case be employing the "why aren't they protesting against A thru L, and N thru Z?" technique?
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Two other long-standing issues on the other side:
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works 2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
When you say "character and guts", are you referring to our prime minister?
Funny how Brexity folk obsess about WW2 and yet have such a limited knowledge of the history of that conflict. Too much reading war comics I guess.
I suggest Mr. Fishing reads a little about Norwegian resistance against occupation before he insults their national character.
I never mentioned World War 2 and have never read a WW2 comic. Why are Remainers so obsessed by that conflict? They bring it up all the time.
I guess you are trying to be ironic and failing. Your comment about Norway was ignorant. Very ignorant, but you seem to be someone that revels in your stupidity.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
How is it "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" than what is happening to the Kurds? Or the Uighur? Or the Tibetans? Or many more?
I'm not saying it's worse than other atrocities. I'm not doing a finely calibrated rating of one against the other.
And there's something else I don't do. When there happens to be a protest in the UK against something happening elsewhere I don't leap in and say either of the following -
That the people who feel strongly enough to join the protest have questions to answer if they are not also in the habit of protesting all and sundry other issues.
That a protest in the UK is inappropriate because it relates to things happening outside the UK.
What you're doing is imputing bad faith to a protest purely because you don't like the cause. It's no different to the negative stuff that gets said about BLM - although not by you in that case since there you DO like the cause.
You're the one who used the words "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" so I think its fair to ask how that applies.
Just because people are protesting doesn't justify their protest. If people are protesting because they dislike oppression a la Kurds, Tibet, Uighur and Palestine etc consistently then I respect that.
If people are protesting because they dislike Jews, then that's no better than an EDL one.
I sense you get my point. Good.
No I don't get your point. You seem to want to justify this, without justifying it, because you know its unjustifiable.
Please can you say how it is "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)", or please can you say that it isn't and those words were inappropriate?
Ah ok. Just the once more then. I have a few minutes.
Assume there are 26 different atrocities going on in the world outside the UK - one for every letter of the alphabet, A to Z. And there's a protest going on in London about one of them. About M.
So now a common technique adopted by people who dislike and disagree with the protesters (against M) is to say the following -
"How come these people are not protesting against A thru L, and N thru Z? They're hypocrites!"
This is what you're doing here. Where M = Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.
Compare with if there were a protest where M = the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs.
Would you in that case be employing the "why aren't they protesting against A thru L, and N thru Z?" technique?
Grrr - Insurers now have to ensure existing customers get same quote as new customers. What happened to searching the market or challenging your existing supplier when they send out your renewal. I have never paid the renewal quote, yet don't often have to move.
Just subsidizing the lazy. Same thing with energy prices. We just need rules to prevent rip offs and exploitation of the vulnerable. The rest of us should be subject to the marketplace.
Surely you mean the lazy were subsidising you before and now they aren't
Yes it does. Not sure what your point is.
I am in favour of free markets with proper protection of the vulnerable. I don't want the state controlling what prices I sell stuff at. Loss leaders is normal commercial practice. It leads to a more efficient market if there is competition.
My point was that your claim the lazy were being subsidised is fallacious, they are now merely paying a fair price. You on the other hand have lost your subsidy and also having to pay the fair price for the product. No one is telling you what you have to charge just that you have to charge all people the same.
Unless you believe in communism that is nonsense. None of us pay the same price for the same thing. That is the point of the marketplace. It is competitive which drives prices down and or quality up.
Do you propose that all petrol stations sell petrol at the same price, or all supermarkets sell potatoes at the same price. Even the same supplier will not necessarily sell the same products at the same price. Most expensive items are negotiable.
What right have you got to tell me that I must charge everyone the same price. It is none of your business what I charge anyone. I ran a company and I charged what I thought was appropriate.
And that is how it should be with insurance. The price is negotiable or you can go elsewhere.
If you can't be arsed to negotiate a better price why should I subsidise you.
My only proviso is that for certain products and services there should be proper protection for the vulnerable and in certain cases the provision should be provided by the state via taxation (education, health, etc)
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
Do you not find it a little suspicious that the middle east conflict is such a cause celebre for so many people, particularly those on the far left? The behaviour of Israel is often atrocious, and though it doesn't excuse them, there are probably hundreds of regimes around the world who are considerably worse.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
It does - and some of it has permeated parts of the Labour party often unchallenged, not least because there is a considerable voting bloc involved in some constituencies.
I think it is a lot deeper that the association with Muslims, which I think is more recent. If you look at the anti-Semitic mural that Corbyn condoned, that was a clear attempt to equate Jews with capitalism. The fact that there are a number of leading Jewish millionaire and billionaire individuals and families and successful businbessses feeds this prejudice.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
Everything for you is seen through your obsessional irrational hatred of the EU. You have absolutely no understanding of continental politics, much like everything else you pronounce on from the standpoint of ignorance, for that matter.
Continental politics has essential evolved in the direction of compromise. In order to facilitate that compromise you take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on, or fudged if you prefer the more pejorative term. It will happen with Switzerland, and they will maintain their half in half out position.
Pathetic! I repeat. Get a Job!
Sorry, was that post meant for Philip Thompson? I have a job thanks, and a pretty good one. Your powers of debate suggest that analysis and response are not part of yours. Part of my job meant that I spent quite a large time travelling Europe and in particular Switzerland. So, no not pathetic, but a response to Philip posting a comment based upon an article in the non-too-partial DT. I think you might need to get a job, pillock!
I think we finally found some consensus - Roger the pillock!
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
Do you not find it a little suspicious that the middle east conflict is such a cause celebre for so many people, particularly those on the far left? The behaviour of Israel is often atrocious, and though it doesn't excuse them, there are probably hundreds of regimes around the world who are considerably worse.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
There is a reason that some have said that "Anti-semitism is the socialism of fools" - plenty of people, historically, have fallen into that cesspit.
Interesting quote. It suggests that socialism in it's normal non-antisemitic form is not for fools!
It was made by proud Socialists who regarded falling into anti-semitism as grotesque.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
Everything for you is seen through your obsessional irrational hatred of the EU. You have absolutely no understanding of continental politics, much like everything else you pronounce on from the standpoint of ignorance, for that matter.
Continental politics has essential evolved in the direction of compromise. In order to facilitate that compromise you take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on, or fudged if you prefer the more pejorative term. It will happen with Switzerland, and they will maintain their half in half out position.
Pathetic! I repeat. Get a Job!
Sorry, was that post meant for Philip Thompson? I have a job thanks, and a pretty good one. Your powers of debate suggest that analysis and response are not part of yours. Part of my job meant that I spent quite a large time travelling Europe and in particular Switzerland. So, no not pathetic, but a response to Philip posting a comment based upon an article in the non-too-partial DT. I think you might need to get a job, pillock!
Sorry meant for Philip. Getting paid by GCHQ to write tripe about the collapse of the EU seems a terrible waste of areasonably agile mind! If I posted against the wrong post and poster apologies. I'm multi tasking at the moment
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
How is it "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" than what is happening to the Kurds? Or the Uighur? Or the Tibetans? Or many more?
I'm not saying it's worse than other atrocities. I'm not doing a finely calibrated rating of one against the other.
And there's something else I don't do. When there happens to be a protest in the UK against something happening elsewhere I don't leap in and say either of the following -
That the people who feel strongly enough to join the protest have questions to answer if they are not also in the habit of protesting all and sundry other issues.
That a protest in the UK is inappropriate because it relates to things happening outside the UK.
What you're doing is imputing bad faith to a protest purely because you don't like the cause. It's no different to the negative stuff that gets said about BLM - although not by you in that case since there you DO like the cause.
You're the one who used the words "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" so I think its fair to ask how that applies.
Just because people are protesting doesn't justify their protest. If people are protesting because they dislike oppression a la Kurds, Tibet, Uighur and Palestine etc consistently then I respect that.
If people are protesting because they dislike Jews, then that's no better than an EDL one.
I sense you get my point. Good.
No I don't get your point. You seem to want to justify this, without justifying it, because you know its unjustifiable.
Please can you say how it is "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)", or please can you say that it isn't and those words were inappropriate?
Ah ok. Just the once more then. I have a few minutes.
Assume there are 26 different atrocities going on in the world outside the UK - one for every letter of the alphabet, A to Z. And there's a protest going on in London about one of them. About M.
So now a common technique adopted by people who dislike and disagree with the protesters (against M) is to say the following -
"How come these people are not protesting against A thru L, and N thru Z? They're hypocrites!"
This is what you're doing here. Where M = Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.
Compare with if there were a protest where M = the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs.
Would you in that case be employing the "why aren't they protesting against A thru L, and N thru Z?" technique?
I sense not.
That might make sense if the distribution of protests were even, so that 1/26th of all protests were about M. But I'll fix it for you.
Assume there are 26 different atrocities going on in the world outside the UK - one for every letter of the alphabet, A to Z. And there's a protest going on in London about one of them. About M.
Now suppose there's 25 more protests. All about M.
Now suppose that next week there'll be 26 protests. All about M.
Imagine that every weekend there's protests. All about M.
"How come these people are not protesting against A thru L, and N thru Z? They're hypocrites!"
This is happening here. Where M = Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.
Compare with if there were a protest where M = the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs. Would that happen? No, because the hypocrites don't protest that.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Two other long-standing issues on the other side:
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works 2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
When you say "character and guts", are you referring to our prime minister?
Funny how Brexity folk obsess about WW2 and yet have such a limited knowledge of the history of that conflict. Too much reading war comics I guess.
I suggest Mr. Fishing reads a little about Norwegian resistance against occupation before he insults their national character.
I suggest you take a visit to charm school. Your posts are getting ever more ugly and impolite.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Two other long-standing issues on the other side:
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works 2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
When you say "character and guts", are you referring to our prime minister?
Funny how Brexity folk obsess about WW2 and yet have such a limited knowledge of the history of that conflict. Too much reading war comics I guess.
I suggest Mr. Fishing reads a little about Norwegian resistance against occupation before he insults their national character.
I suggest you take a visit to charm school. Your posts are getting ever more ugly and impolite.
Before I go to charm school I am working on my resolution to be much nicer to idiots. how are you today?
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Two other long-standing issues on the other side:
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works 2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
When you say "character and guts", are you referring to our prime minister?
Funny how Brexity folk obsess about WW2 and yet have such a limited knowledge of the history of that conflict. Too much reading war comics I guess.
I suggest Mr. Fishing reads a little about Norwegian resistance against occupation before he insults their national character.
I never mentioned World War 2 and have never read a WW2 comic. Why are Remainers so obsessed by that conflict? They bring it up all the time.
I guess you are trying to be ironic and failing. Your comment about Norway was ignorant. Very ignorant, but you seem to be someone that revels in your stupidity.
Why did you bring up WW2 in an irrelevant context then?
I know a fair amount about the resistance of (some of) the Norwegian people to Hitler, and that has nothing whatever to do with their supine attitude towards the EU today. So you were 100% wrong.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
Everything for you is seen through your obsessional irrational hatred of the EU. You have absolutely no understanding of continental politics, much like everything else you pronounce on from the standpoint of ignorance, for that matter.
Continental politics has essential evolved in the direction of compromise. In order to facilitate that compromise you take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on, or fudged if you prefer the more pejorative term. It will happen with Switzerland, and they will maintain their half in half out position.
Pathetic! I repeat. Get a Job!
Sorry, was that post meant for Philip Thompson? I have a job thanks, and a pretty good one. Your powers of debate suggest that analysis and response are not part of yours. Part of my job meant that I spent quite a large time travelling Europe and in particular Switzerland. So, no not pathetic, but a response to Philip posting a comment based upon an article in the non-too-partial DT. I think you might need to get a job, pillock!
Sorry meant for Philip. Getting paid by GCHQ to write tripe about the collapse of the EU seems a terrible waste of areasonably agile mind! If I posted against the wrong post and poster apologies. I'm multi tasking at the moment
It's a measure of how barking mad some of your posts are that I'm genuinely unsure if you actually meant CCHQ.
@Isam posted a picture the subtext of which is that we have come to a pretty pass when a section of British people are being advised to stay at home when another section of British people are protesting as the assumption (with evidence from the last publicised such protest) is that it will get violent and abusive, perhaps criminally so, towards the former set of British people, in this case Jews.
@Gardenwalker, who I have no doubt is race-blind, took it to be just "British people" not in particular Jews and responded as such and with reference to the particular grouping which @isam posted, hence the "maybe the Luton Jews...". In so doing, however, he invoked age old anti-semitic tropes (such as blaming the Jews for Israeli action) and then people rightly called out those tropes.
Oh and then a bunch of bozos jumped in which, in typical fashion, reflected their own positions on the one hand of an Israeli-hating British Jew, and on the other of a leftie who has no real confidence in his own convictions and hence tries to skip around making "correct" pronouncements which add nothing to the debate.
Did I miss anything?
It's good but just needed one final bit to get a 10/10 excellent.
And then another bozo jumped in and in typical fashion attempted to disguise his own immense bias on this subject as a detached 'executive summary' of a discussion he hadn't quite followed since it strayed outside the area of electric toothbrushes and flatulence filtering pants.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
Do you not find it a little suspicious that the middle east conflict is such a cause celebre for so many people, particularly those on the far left? The behaviour of Israel is often atrocious, and though it doesn't excuse them, there are probably hundreds of regimes around the world who are considerably worse.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
It does - and some of it has permeated parts of the Labour party often unchallenged, not least because there is a considerable voting bloc involved in some constituencies.
I think it is a lot deeper that the association with Muslims, which I think is more recent. If you look at the anti-Semitic mural that Corbyn condoned, that was a clear attempt to equate Jews with capitalism. The fact that there are a number of leading Jewish millionaire and billionaire individuals and families and successful businbessses feeds this prejudice.
Oh I agree - but the voting link is also a powerful add-on.
@Isam posted a picture the subtext of which is that we have come to a pretty pass when a section of British people are being advised to stay at home when another section of British people are protesting as the assumption (with evidence from the last publicised such protest) is that it will get violent and abusive, perhaps criminally so, towards the former set of British people, in this case Jews.
@Gardenwalker, who I have no doubt is race-blind, took it to be just "British people" not in particular Jews and responded as such and with reference to the particular grouping which @isam posted, hence the "maybe the Luton Jews...". In so doing, however, he invoked age old anti-semitic tropes (such as blaming the Jews for Israeli action) and then people rightly called out those tropes.
Oh and then a bunch of bozos jumped in which, in typical fashion, reflected their own positions on the one hand of an Israeli-hating British Jew, and on the other of a leftie who has no real confidence in his own convictions and hence tries to skip around making "correct" pronouncements which add nothing to the debate.
Did I miss anything?
It's good but just needed one final bit to get a 10/10 excellent.
And then another bozo jumped in and in typical fashion attempted to disguise his own immense bias on this subject as a detached 'executive summary' of a discussion he hadn't quite followed since it strayed outside the area of electric toothbrushes and flatulence filtering pants.
Grrr - Insurers now have to ensure existing customers get same quote as new customers. What happened to searching the market or challenging your existing supplier when they send out your renewal. I have never paid the renewal quote, yet don't often have to move.
Just subsidizing the lazy. Same thing with energy prices. We just need rules to prevent rip offs and exploitation of the vulnerable. The rest of us should be subject to the marketplace.
Surely you mean the lazy were subsidising you before and now they aren't
Yes it does. Not sure what your point is.
I am in favour of free markets with proper protection of the vulnerable. I don't want the state controlling what prices I sell stuff at. Loss leaders is normal commercial practice. It leads to a more efficient market if there is competition.
My point was that your claim the lazy were being subsidised is fallacious, they are now merely paying a fair price. You on the other hand have lost your subsidy and also having to pay the fair price for the product. No one is telling you what you have to charge just that you have to charge all people the same.
Unless you believe in communism that is nonsense. None of us pay the same price for the same thing. That is the point of the marketplace. It is competitive which drives prices down and or quality up.
Do you propose that all petrol stations sell petrol at the same price, or all supermarkets sell potatoes at the same price. Even the same supplier will not necessarily sell the same products at the same price. Most expensive items are negotiable.
What right have you got to tell me that I must charge everyone the same price. It is none of your business what I charge anyone. I ran a company and I charged what I thought was appropriate.
And that is how it should be with insurance. The price is negotiable or you can go elsewhere.
If you can't be arsed to negotiate a better price why should I subsidise you.
My only proviso is that for certain products and services there should be proper protection for the vulnerable and in certain cases the provision should be provided by the state via taxation (education, health, etc)
The point you fail to see though is that despite not being vulnerable many can't change supplier for example. For insurance and electric as well companies deliberately make it virtually impossible for a lot of people to work out which is best or cheapest using different tariff schedules, different levels of excess and similar ploys.
In addition no one is telling companies what they have to charge they are just telling you that you cant charge different customers different prices for the exact same product. For years you have been getting things on the cheap paid for by those who either can't or won't shop around. No one is saying every company has to charge the same price either. Insurer A is free to charge 250 and insurer B is free to charge 350.
However you carry on advocating for being a parasite on those that can't or won't.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
Do you not find it a little suspicious that the middle east conflict is such a cause celebre for so many people, particularly those on the far left? The behaviour of Israel is often atrocious, and though it doesn't excuse them, there are probably hundreds of regimes around the world who are considerably worse.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
It does - and some of it has permeated parts of the Labour party often unchallenged, not least because there is a considerable voting bloc involved in some constituencies.
I think it is a lot deeper that the association with Muslims, which I think is more recent. If you look at the anti-Semitic mural that Corbyn condoned, that was a clear attempt to equate Jews with capitalism. The fact that there are a number of leading Jewish millionaire and billionaire individuals and families and successful businbessses feeds this prejudice.
How many miscarriages of justice have there been where someone not so bright got picked on and fitted up for it.? Eh?
So it’s only people who are not very bright who are anti Semitic? Is that what you pseuds are saying?
The philosophy you are pushing here is disgusting.
You are trying to make political point scoring out of anti Semitism. I’m embarrassed for you. You haven’t the first clue what you are blabbering on about. You are ignorant of your own history your own culture your own psyche.
British history is vehemently anti Semitic. It’s ingrained into the British culture, and in the psyche of so many posters here, who are oblivious to it, and think they, and Britain, have always been the good guys.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
Do you not find it a little suspicious that the middle east conflict is such a cause celebre for so many people, particularly those on the far left? The behaviour of Israel is often atrocious, and though it doesn't excuse them, there are probably hundreds of regimes around the world who are considerably worse.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
It does - and some of it has permeated parts of the Labour party often unchallenged, not least because there is a considerable voting bloc involved in some constituencies.
I think it is a lot deeper that the association with Muslims, which I think is more recent. If you look at the anti-Semitic mural that Corbyn condoned, that was a clear attempt to equate Jews with capitalism. The fact that there are a number of leading Jewish millionaire and billionaire individuals and families and successful businbessses feeds this prejudice.
Oh I agree - but the voting link is also a powerful add-on.
I think that associating with people that have... certain views, rubs off on some people, quite readily.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
Do you not find it a little suspicious that the middle east conflict is such a cause celebre for so many people, particularly those on the far left? The behaviour of Israel is often atrocious, and though it doesn't excuse them, there are probably hundreds of regimes around the world who are considerably worse.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Two other long-standing issues on the other side:
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works 2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
When you say "character and guts", are you referring to our prime minister?
Funny how Brexity folk obsess about WW2 and yet have such a limited knowledge of the history of that conflict. Too much reading war comics I guess.
I suggest Mr. Fishing reads a little about Norwegian resistance against occupation before he insults their national character.
I suggest you take a visit to charm school. Your posts are getting ever more ugly and impolite.
Before I go to charm school I am working on my resolution to be much nicer to idiots. how are you today?
Grrr - Insurers now have to ensure existing customers get same quote as new customers. What happened to searching the market or challenging your existing supplier when they send out your renewal. I have never paid the renewal quote, yet don't often have to move.
Just subsidizing the lazy. Same thing with energy prices. We just need rules to prevent rip offs and exploitation of the vulnerable. The rest of us should be subject to the marketplace.
Surely you mean the lazy were subsidising you before and now they aren't
Yes it does. Not sure what your point is.
I am in favour of free markets with proper protection of the vulnerable. I don't want the state controlling what prices I sell stuff at. Loss leaders is normal commercial practice. It leads to a more efficient market if there is competition.
My point was that your claim the lazy were being subsidised is fallacious, they are now merely paying a fair price. You on the other hand have lost your subsidy and also having to pay the fair price for the product. No one is telling you what you have to charge just that you have to charge all people the same.
Unless you believe in communism that is nonsense. None of us pay the same price for the same thing. That is the point of the marketplace. It is competitive which drives prices down and or quality up.
Do you propose that all petrol stations sell petrol at the same price, or all supermarkets sell potatoes at the same price. Even the same supplier will not necessarily sell the same products at the same price. Most expensive items are negotiable.
What right have you got to tell me that I must charge everyone the same price. It is none of your business what I charge anyone. I ran a company and I charged what I thought was appropriate.
And that is how it should be with insurance. The price is negotiable or you can go elsewhere.
If you can't be arsed to negotiate a better price why should I subsidise you.
My only proviso is that for certain products and services there should be proper protection for the vulnerable and in certain cases the provision should be provided by the state via taxation (education, health, etc)
My main point in response is that insurance products (specifically personal lines insurance, covering motor, home and contents, etc) are almost as important as health and education and the government should absolutely regulate to ensure people can access them easily and fairly. The fact that you might not agree with the above point is mostly a statement about public perception, which could seriously do with being changed.
In addition:
1) Insurance is supposed to be priced on risk-based fundamentals. The fact that providers are basing their pricing on willingness to pay is bad, and indicative of a poorly functioning market. 2) Loyalty penalties are the exact opposite of what is supposed to happen, given how expensive it is to find new customers as opposed to retaining existing ones - again, evidence of market failure.
Bottom line, the insurance market should have resolved long ago without need for outside interference. The fact that it couldn't means regulatory intervention was needed.
NICOLA Sturgeon has warned people not to follow the example set by Scottish Green co-leader Patrick Harvie, who this week broke Covid rules to have a pint.
Mr Harvie and two other Green MSPs, co-leader Lorna Slater and Ross Greer, and a fourth person were caught breaking the three household limit in an Edinburgh bar on Tuesday.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Two other long-standing issues on the other side:
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works 2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
When you say "character and guts", are you referring to our prime minister?
Funny how Brexity folk obsess about WW2 and yet have such a limited knowledge of the history of that conflict. Too much reading war comics I guess.
I suggest Mr. Fishing reads a little about Norwegian resistance against occupation before he insults their national character.
I never mentioned World War 2 and have never read a WW2 comic. Why are Remainers so obsessed by that conflict? They bring it up all the time.
It is said that the reason the young are mainly Remainers is because they're looking to the future whereas the old -overwhelmingly Leavers- are looking to the past
BREAKING: Lord Geidt finds the Trust Boris Johnson wanted to set up to pay for Downing Street refurb "was not subjected to a scheme of rigorous project management by officials".
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
Well no defence from me of any of that. Not sure about "act of war against the UK", but certainly it was sordid criminality that should be prosecuted. Protests have to be against the government of Israel not against Jews generally. So long as they are, I don't see a problem, and this applies regardless of whether the protesters are active for other causes. Protesting in public against the Israeli oppression of Palestinians but not against other atrocities might be a signal of possible antisemitism but you need more evidence than that to make such an accusation. It's important to say this otherwise antisemitism can end up being used as a way of shutting down negative commentary on Israel.
Do you not find it a little suspicious that the middle east conflict is such a cause celebre for so many people, particularly those on the far left? The behaviour of Israel is often atrocious, and though it doesn't excuse them, there are probably hundreds of regimes around the world who are considerably worse.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
There is a reason that some have said that "Anti-semitism is the socialism of fools" - plenty of people, historically, have fallen into that cesspit.
Interesting quote. It suggests that socialism in it's normal non-antisemitic form is not for fools!
It was made by proud Socialists who regarded falling into anti-semitism as grotesque.
If we are doing quotas about Isums, then I'll share this from Anya Rand:
Like every other form of collectivism, racism is a quest for the unearned. It is a quest for automatic knowledge—for an automatic evaluation of men’s characters that bypasses the responsibility of exercising rational or moral judgment—and, above all, a quest for an automatic self-esteem (or pseudo-self-esteem).
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
Everything for you is seen through your obsessional irrational hatred of the EU. You have absolutely no understanding of continental politics, much like everything else you pronounce on from the standpoint of ignorance, for that matter.
Continental politics has essential evolved in the direction of compromise. In order to facilitate that compromise you take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on, or fudged if you prefer the more pejorative term. It will happen with Switzerland, and they will maintain their half in half out position.
Pathetic! I repeat. Get a Job!
Sorry, was that post meant for Philip Thompson? I have a job thanks, and a pretty good one. Your powers of debate suggest that analysis and response are not part of yours. Part of my job meant that I spent quite a large time travelling Europe and in particular Switzerland. So, no not pathetic, but a response to Philip posting a comment based upon an article in the non-too-partial DT. I think you might need to get a job, pillock!
Sorry meant for Philip. Getting paid by GCHQ to write tripe about the collapse of the EU seems a terrible waste of areasonably agile mind! If I posted against the wrong post and poster apologies. I'm multi tasking at the moment
It's a measure of how barking mad some of your posts are that I'm genuinely unsure if you actually meant CCHQ.
As I said I'm multi tasking! Of course I meant CCHQ!
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Two other long-standing issues on the other side:
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works 2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
When you say "character and guts", are you referring to our prime minister?
Funny how Brexity folk obsess about WW2 and yet have such a limited knowledge of the history of that conflict. Too much reading war comics I guess.
I suggest Mr. Fishing reads a little about Norwegian resistance against occupation before he insults their national character.
I never mentioned World War 2 and have never read a WW2 comic. Why are Remainers so obsessed by that conflict? They bring it up all the time.
It is said that the reason the young are mainly Remainers is because they're looking to the future whereas the old -overwhelmingly Leavers- are looking to the past
Sure, people in their late teens and 20s are notoriously good long-range planners. Older people are much more short term in their thinking, and have no perspective on life because they know they haven't got long left.
NICOLA Sturgeon has warned people not to follow the example set by Scottish Green co-leader Patrick Harvie, who this week broke Covid rules to have a pint.
Mr Harvie and two other Green MSPs, co-leader Lorna Slater and Ross Greer, and a fourth person were caught breaking the three household limit in an Edinburgh bar on Tuesday.
This is a completely unbelievable story. 3 people want to have a pint with Patrick Harvie? I mean, come on.
The other thing that I find genuinely startling about that story is, err, what 3 household rule was that? We had the first beer club meeting in over a year when lockdown was eased. 5 of us were sitting outside, freezing our nuts off, in Edinburgh. 1 was a QC and 4 were advocates, one of whom sits as a Justice of the Peace. None of us had any idea that we were breaking a law nor was it suggested by the establishment. Was this because we were outside? Or is it simply an illustration of how our law has fallen into disrepute as a result of this nonsense?
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Two other long-standing issues on the other side:
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works 2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
When you say "character and guts", are you referring to our prime minister?
Funny how Brexity folk obsess about WW2 and yet have such a limited knowledge of the history of that conflict. Too much reading war comics I guess.
I suggest Mr. Fishing reads a little about Norwegian resistance against occupation before he insults their national character.
I never mentioned World War 2 and have never read a WW2 comic. Why are Remainers so obsessed by that conflict? They bring it up all the time.
It is said that the reason the young are mainly Remainers is because they're looking to the future whereas the old -overwhelmingly Leavers- are looking to the past
Quite, it is mostly middle-aged and elderly remainers who bring up the Second World War constantly. An elderly relative of mine, for instance. grew up in the 50s in a bombed out London and supported remaining in the EU to prevent France and Germany clashing again - something that would never even occur to most people under 50 I expect.
NICOLA Sturgeon has warned people not to follow the example set by Scottish Green co-leader Patrick Harvie, who this week broke Covid rules to have a pint.
Mr Harvie and two other Green MSPs, co-leader Lorna Slater and Ross Greer, and a fourth person were caught breaking the three household limit in an Edinburgh bar on Tuesday.
Grrr - Insurers now have to ensure existing customers get same quote as new customers. What happened to searching the market or challenging your existing supplier when they send out your renewal. I have never paid the renewal quote, yet don't often have to move.
Just subsidizing the lazy. Same thing with energy prices. We just need rules to prevent rip offs and exploitation of the vulnerable. The rest of us should be subject to the marketplace.
Surely you mean the lazy were subsidising you before and now they aren't
Yes it does. Not sure what your point is.
I am in favour of free markets with proper protection of the vulnerable. I don't want the state controlling what prices I sell stuff at. Loss leaders is normal commercial practice. It leads to a more efficient market if there is competition.
My point was that your claim the lazy were being subsidised is fallacious, they are now merely paying a fair price. You on the other hand have lost your subsidy and also having to pay the fair price for the product. No one is telling you what you have to charge just that you have to charge all people the same.
Unless you believe in communism that is nonsense. None of us pay the same price for the same thing. That is the point of the marketplace. It is competitive which drives prices down and or quality up.
Do you propose that all petrol stations sell petrol at the same price, or all supermarkets sell potatoes at the same price. Even the same supplier will not necessarily sell the same products at the same price. Most expensive items are negotiable.
What right have you got to tell me that I must charge everyone the same price. It is none of your business what I charge anyone. I ran a company and I charged what I thought was appropriate.
And that is how it should be with insurance. The price is negotiable or you can go elsewhere.
If you can't be arsed to negotiate a better price why should I subsidise you.
My only proviso is that for certain products and services there should be proper protection for the vulnerable and in certain cases the provision should be provided by the state via taxation (education, health, etc)
The point you fail to see though is that despite not being vulnerable many can't change supplier for example. For insurance and electric as well companies deliberately make it virtually impossible for a lot of people to work out which is best or cheapest using different tariff schedules, different levels of excess and similar ploys.
In addition no one is telling companies what they have to charge they are just telling you that you cant charge different customers different prices for the exact same product. For years you have been getting things on the cheap paid for by those who either can't or won't shop around. No one is saying every company has to charge the same price either. Insurer A is free to charge 250 and insurer B is free to charge 350.
However you carry on advocating for being a parasite on those that can't or won't.
This is just nonsense. Those that can't, should be protected. I object to be called a parasite. If you had read the earlier posts you would realise that I have been heavily and successfully involved in campaigns to provide such protection, entirely in my own time and at my own cost, regarding abuse by banks, insurance companies, telco and energy companies and those campaigns in each case took years to be successful and I put in a huge amount of time in doing so. Can you claim the same thing? Maybe you should think again before calling someone a parasite?
However why on earth do you want to protect those that can but wont shop around????? Why do people who can and won't hunt out a better deal need protecting from their own laziness.
When I ran my business I provided a service which was potentially identical to all my customer (it depended upon how much they used it). I gave discounts to charities, I charged big organisations more because they got a larger benefit so they were willing to pay (even though the service from me was the same). What I charged is none of your or anyone else's business.
Where do you want to draw the line on this price protection? Do we all have to submit our price list to the Govt?
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
How is it "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" than what is happening to the Kurds? Or the Uighur? Or the Tibetans? Or many more?
I'm not saying it's worse than other atrocities. I'm not doing a finely calibrated rating of one against the other.
And there's something else I don't do. When there happens to be a protest in the UK against something happening elsewhere I don't leap in and say either of the following -
That the people who feel strongly enough to join the protest have questions to answer if they are not also in the habit of protesting all and sundry other issues.
That a protest in the UK is inappropriate because it relates to things happening outside the UK.
What you're doing is imputing bad faith to a protest purely because you don't like the cause. It's no different to the negative stuff that gets said about BLM - although not by you in that case since there you DO like the cause.
You're the one who used the words "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" so I think its fair to ask how that applies.
Just because people are protesting doesn't justify their protest. If people are protesting because they dislike oppression a la Kurds, Tibet, Uighur and Palestine etc consistently then I respect that.
If people are protesting because they dislike Jews, then that's no better than an EDL one.
I sense you get my point. Good.
No I don't get your point. You seem to want to justify this, without justifying it, because you know its unjustifiable.
Please can you say how it is "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)", or please can you say that it isn't and those words were inappropriate?
Ah ok. Just the once more then. I have a few minutes.
Assume there are 26 different atrocities going on in the world outside the UK - one for every letter of the alphabet, A to Z. And there's a protest going on in London about one of them. About M.
So now a common technique adopted by people who dislike and disagree with the protesters (against M) is to say the following -
"How come these people are not protesting against A thru L, and N thru Z? They're hypocrites!"
This is what you're doing here. Where M = Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.
Compare with if there were a protest where M = the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs.
Would you in that case be employing the "why aren't they protesting against A thru L, and N thru Z?" technique?
I sense not.
That might make sense if the distribution of protests were even, so that 1/26th of all protests were about M. But I'll fix it for you.
Assume there are 26 different atrocities going on in the world outside the UK - one for every letter of the alphabet, A to Z. And there's a protest going on in London about one of them. About M.
Now suppose there's 25 more protests. All about M.
Now suppose that next week there'll be 26 protests. All about M.
Imagine that every weekend there's protests. All about M.
"How come these people are not protesting against A thru L, and N thru Z? They're hypocrites!"
This is happening here. Where M = Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.
Compare with if there were a protest where M = the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs. Would that happen? No, because the hypocrites don't protest that.
Can you justify that?
I sense not.
My position is straightforward enough. I'll either support a cause or not (or be indifferent) depending on what I feel about the issue.
What I don't tend to do is use the "why don't they protest other stuff too?" technique to object to a protest I don't happen to like.
So, an anti-Israel protest, I won't be going, "Why don't they protest against China?"
And an anti-China protest, I won't be going, "Why don't they protest against Israel?"
NICOLA Sturgeon has warned people not to follow the example set by Scottish Green co-leader Patrick Harvie, who this week broke Covid rules to have a pint.
Mr Harvie and two other Green MSPs, co-leader Lorna Slater and Ross Greer, and a fourth person were caught breaking the three household limit in an Edinburgh bar on Tuesday.
This is a completely unbelievable story. 3 people want to have a pint with Patrick Harvie? I mean, come on.
The other thing that I find genuinely startling about that story is, err, what 3 household rule was that? We had the first beer club meeting in over a year when lockdown was eased. 5 of us were sitting outside, freezing our nuts off, in Edinburgh. 1 was a QC and 4 were advocates, one of whom sits as a Justice of the Peace. None of us had any idea that we were breaking a law nor was it suggested by the establishment. Was this because we were outside? Or is it simply an illustration of how our law has fallen into disrepute as a result of this nonsense?
In England, I'd use the legitimate business meeting defence/exception (is that still a thing/ever a thing a Scotland). Might even be arguable if three of them were Green MSPs...
Not quite so sure about a beer club meeting. Maybe if you were discussing the beer club organisation and so it was a 'work' meeting
NICOLA Sturgeon has warned people not to follow the example set by Scottish Green co-leader Patrick Harvie, who this week broke Covid rules to have a pint.
Mr Harvie and two other Green MSPs, co-leader Lorna Slater and Ross Greer, and a fourth person were caught breaking the three household limit in an Edinburgh bar on Tuesday.
NICOLA Sturgeon has warned people not to follow the example set by Scottish Green co-leader Patrick Harvie, who this week broke Covid rules to have a pint.
Mr Harvie and two other Green MSPs, co-leader Lorna Slater and Ross Greer, and a fourth person were caught breaking the three household limit in an Edinburgh bar on Tuesday.
This is a completely unbelievable story. 3 people want to have a pint with Patrick Harvie? I mean, come on.
The other thing that I find genuinely startling about that story is, err, what 3 household rule was that? We had the first beer club meeting in over a year when lockdown was eased. 5 of us were sitting outside, freezing our nuts off, in Edinburgh. 1 was a QC and 4 were advocates, one of whom sits as a Justice of the Peace. None of us had any idea that we were breaking a law nor was it suggested by the establishment. Was this because we were outside? Or is it simply an illustration of how our law has fallen into disrepute as a result of this nonsense?
@Isam posted a picture the subtext of which is that we have come to a pretty pass when a section of British people are being advised to stay at home when another section of British people are protesting as the assumption (with evidence from the last publicised such protest) is that it will get violent and abusive, perhaps criminally so, towards the former set of British people, in this case Jews.
@Gardenwalker, who I have no doubt is race-blind, took it to be just "British people" not in particular Jews and responded as such and with reference to the particular grouping which @isam posted, hence the "maybe the Luton Jews...". In so doing, however, he invoked age old anti-semitic tropes (such as blaming the Jews for Israeli action) and then people rightly called out those tropes.
Oh and then a bunch of bozos jumped in which, in typical fashion, reflected their own positions on the one hand of an Israeli-hating British Jew, and on the other of a leftie who has no real confidence in his own convictions and hence tries to skip around making "correct" pronouncements which add nothing to the debate.
Did I miss anything?
It's good but just needed one final bit to get a 10/10 excellent.
And then another bozo jumped in and in typical fashion attempted to disguise his own immense bias on this subject as a detached 'executive summary' of a discussion he hadn't quite followed since it strayed outside the area of electric toothbrushes and flatulence filtering pants.
yeah, weak.
You sounding a bit faint there, Captain. Speak up.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Two other long-standing issues on the other side:
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works 2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
When you say "character and guts", are you referring to our prime minister?
Funny how Brexity folk obsess about WW2 and yet have such a limited knowledge of the history of that conflict. Too much reading war comics I guess.
I suggest Mr. Fishing reads a little about Norwegian resistance against occupation before he insults their national character.
I never mentioned World War 2 and have never read a WW2 comic. Why are Remainers so obsessed by that conflict? They bring it up all the time.
It is said that the reason the young are mainly Remainers is because they're looking to the future whereas the old -overwhelmingly Leavers- are looking to the past
Quite, it is mostly middle-aged and elderly remainers who bring up the Second World War constantly. An elderly relative of mine, for instance. grew up in the 50s in a bombed out London and supported remaining in the EU to prevent France and Germany clashing again - something that would never even occur to most people under 50 I expect.
Oh? I wondered why the Brexiters kept putting pics of Spitfires on their bumf. (Even if they were often of 303 (Polish) Sqn.)
BREAKING: Lord Geidt finds the Trust Boris Johnson wanted to set up to pay for Downing Street refurb "was not subjected to a scheme of rigorous project management by officials".
As earlier suggested, at worst Boris inadvertently got involved in technical offences, and now, as with most official reports, a large bucket of whitewash has been thrown over it.
BREAKING: Lord Geidt finds the Trust Boris Johnson wanted to set up to pay for Downing Street refurb "was not subjected to a scheme of rigorous project management by officials".
It also says that he accepts that all relevant declarations were made, that they were made timeously and that there was no conflict of interest.
Since it is clear that millions of Brits have yet to overcome their fit of the vapours about this might Boris expect a bounce from his already giddy heights in being cleared in this way? Or, more likely, did the great British public in their considerable wisdom never give a damn about this in the first place?
Good vaccine numbers today! We have 10 more days to do another 3m first doses. Let's see if we can get there.
It'd be a leap considering we've only done quarter of a million yesterday and now we're into the heavier (second) half of the week. Average over previous 7 days is 192k.
Comments
But ultimately there's not much use having an aircraft that only a few sets of crews in the entire air force are capable of exploiting to its maximum.
So rather than being a child, perhaps‘s you’d like to consider that there are really only a couple of likely explanations at this point, neither of which should be taken lightly.
That the Chinese have developed a stealth sub that reached 100km from Santa Monica pier completely undetected, then launched a multitude of transmedium drones that buzzed US military assets for a couple of days, before being recovered by said stealth submarine, all without the best US naval assets and minds being able to see it coming, do very much about it or explain the tech. Not to mention like many of the other such reports, that there was an apparent break in the chain of command over the initial reporting of this incident.
Or... that it’s something else entirely more in line with the tic tac incidents. At which point we should consider the growing number of the most senior intelligence, political and military people in the US who are ready to publicly consider that at least some of these incidents “might not be of this world”, to use the words of one.
Steering onto Hadden-Cave. The Public sector have to keep records, such as decision not to copy Americans and put flame retardant around fuel tanks, but the private sector in UK not compelled to keep such records? Keeping records of evidence Torpedoed the tobacco industry didn’t it?
I dont have the App,
My wife does as do many friends and family, I do not know anybody who has been asked to isolated in the last 3 months.
Actually, I can only think of one time somebody I know was asked to isolated, it was my Brother who was phoned and texts 15 times, after his wife, tested positive. Which was all a bit pointless, as he had a test at the same time as her and also tested positive,
And there's something else I don't do. When there happens to be a protest in the UK against something happening elsewhere I don't leap in and say either of the following -
That the people who feel strongly enough to join the protest have questions to answer if they are not also in the habit of protesting all and sundry other issues.
That a protest in the UK is inappropriate because it relates to things happening outside the UK.
What you're doing is imputing bad faith to a protest purely because you don't like the cause. It's no different to the negative stuff that gets said about BLM - although not by you in that case since there you DO like the cause.
According to various migrant campaign groups, the conditions for migrants in Calais are intolerable, and they need to be let into the UK.
So incorporating Calais into the UK would fix that. Bring the country to the migrants.....
Being part of the IOW trial app, which I dutifully carried round for a month before we were told that it didn’t work, dented my enthusiasm for trying again. And hearing that if the App told you out of the blue to isolate, it was then an offence not to, put me off further.
I have however downloaded the NHS App and it is good to see the vaccination confirmation displayed there, which it says will be good for foreign travel as and when it becomes practicable again.
10 grand a month?
I did get a phonecall to isolate when Mrs Foxy tested positive, but it wasn't as if I didn't know already!
Just because people are protesting doesn't justify their protest. If people are protesting because they dislike oppression a la Kurds, Tibet, Uighur and Palestine etc consistently then I respect that.
If people are protesting because they dislike Jews, then that's no better than an EDL one.
China, Russia or someone / something else that is some jump in technology for a drone
My take is as follows:
@Isam posted a picture the subtext of which is that we have come to a pretty pass when a section of British people are being advised to stay at home when another section of British people are protesting as the assumption (with evidence from the last publicised such protest) is that it will get violent and abusive, perhaps criminally so, towards the former set of British people, in this case Jews.
@Gardenwalker, who I have no doubt is race-blind, took it to be just "British people" not in particular Jews and responded as such and with reference to the particular grouping which @isam posted, hence the "maybe the Luton Jews...". In so doing, however, he invoked age old anti-semitic tropes (such as blaming the Jews for Israeli action) and then people rightly called out those tropes.
Oh and then a bunch of bozos jumped in which, in typical fashion, reflected their own positions on the one hand of an Israeli-hating British Jew, and on the other of a leftie who has no real confidence in his own convictions and hence tries to skip around making "correct" pronouncements which add nothing to the debate.
Did I miss anything?
"To be sure, any revelation that Russia, China or another foreign power has developed technology capable of defying the laws of physics and aerodynamics (while managing to keep it secret since at least 2004) would amount to the most significant national security development since the dawn of the nuclear age.
"At the same time, there is no conclusive evidence that these encounters involve objects of extraterrestrial origin. But the mere fact that the U.S. government, with its nearly unlimited investigatory capabilities, is reportedly considering “alien” technology as an explanation for these phenomena is a jaw-dropping development."
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/555761-extraordinary-explanations-for-ufos-look-increasingly-plausible
Please can you say how it is "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)", or please can you say that it isn't and those words were inappropriate?
Priti starts cracking her knuckles and reaches for the truncheon drawer.
‘...that has resulted in hundreds of asylum seekers in Glasgow being left without food & funds.’
Priti breaks into sobs of joy and orders in pizza and beers for the whole team.
https://twitter.com/ladycatht/status/1397809599508631552?s=21
Con 49%, LD 45%, Lab 2%, Green 2%, Others 2%
If it does happen, and there seems to be momentum towards doing it, with Biden’s backing etc, then it could have happened sooner?
I understand the main blocker is the EU?
🏴 223,510 1st doses / 374,042 2nd doses
🏴 21,244 / 28,721
🏴 8,014 / 22,698
NI 3,749 / 8,635
We want million....
https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1398266757924667397?s=20
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expose-nuclear-weapons-secrets-via-flashcard-apps/
Certainly the celebrations of the Scottish Champions seem to be very different to the celebrations of the English ones both of Man City and of Liverpool last year.
"A Jewish nurse in the UK....
PS. I've hidden her name and picture to protect her privacy."
Mr Harvie and two other Green MSPs, co-leader Lorna Slater and Ross Greer, and a fourth person were caught breaking the three household limit in an Edinburgh bar on Tuesday.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19335900.sturgeon-warns-glasgow-residents-not-copy-green-party-boozers/?ref=twtrec
Apparently it's far more important to you to be able to criticise a foreign country's policy than it is to prevent actual racist abuse against your fellow citizens. This feels, to put it mildly, a fair way out of synch with your usual commentary on race-related issues.
I'm always disappointed when this happens, but not surprised. Not any more.
My suspicion is that a lot of the obsession the far left has with Israel is more to do with the perceived link between Jews and capitalism. Jews=capitalism. Anti-Semitism is the one form of racism the far left secretly condones.
The more outrageous explanation would be the biggest story EVER, and still it is a contender
"Germany, Ipsos poll:
CDU/CSU-EPP: 25% (-8)
GRÜNE-G/EFA: 23% (+14)
SPD-S&D: 13% (-8)
AfD-ID: 13%
FDP-RE: 11%
LINKE-LEFT: 9%
+/- vs. 2017 election
Fieldwork: 18-25 May 2021
Sample size: 2,014"
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1398253535251382279
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_is_the_socialism_of_fools
Assume there are 26 different atrocities going on in the world outside the UK - one for every letter of the alphabet, A to Z. And there's a protest going on in London about one of them. About M.
So now a common technique adopted by people who dislike and disagree with the protesters (against M) is to say the following -
"How come these people are not protesting against A thru L, and N thru Z? They're hypocrites!"
This is what you're doing here. Where M = Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.
Compare with if there were a protest where M = the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs.
Would you in that case be employing the "why aren't they protesting against A thru L, and N thru Z?" technique?
I sense not.
Do you propose that all petrol stations sell petrol at the same price, or all supermarkets sell potatoes at the same price. Even the same supplier will not necessarily sell the same products at the same price. Most expensive items are negotiable.
What right have you got to tell me that I must charge everyone the same price. It is none of your business what I charge anyone. I ran a company and I charged what I thought was appropriate.
And that is how it should be with insurance. The price is negotiable or you can go elsewhere.
If you can't be arsed to negotiate a better price why should I subsidise you.
My only proviso is that for certain products and services there should be proper protection for the vulnerable and in certain cases the provision should be provided by the state via taxation (education, health, etc)
You sirs, are foolists. You and your mendacious foolism should be banned from the blog for it.
Assume there are 26 different atrocities going on in the world outside the UK - one for every letter of the alphabet, A to Z. And there's a protest going on in London about one of them. About M.
Now suppose there's 25 more protests. All about M.
Now suppose that next week there'll be 26 protests. All about M.
Imagine that every weekend there's protests. All about M.
"How come these people are not protesting against A thru L, and N thru Z? They're hypocrites!"
This is happening here. Where M = Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.
Compare with if there were a protest where M = the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs. Would that happen? No, because the hypocrites don't protest that.
Can you justify that?
I sense not.
I know a fair amount about the resistance of (some of) the Norwegian people to Hitler, and that has nothing whatever to do with their supine attitude towards the EU today. So you were 100% wrong.
And then another bozo jumped in and in typical fashion attempted to disguise his own immense bias on this subject as a detached 'executive summary' of a discussion he hadn't quite followed since it strayed outside the area of electric toothbrushes and flatulence filtering pants.
In addition no one is telling companies what they have to charge they are just telling you that you cant charge different customers different prices for the exact same product. For years you have been getting things on the cheap paid for by those who either can't or won't shop around. No one is saying every company has to charge the same price either. Insurer A is free to charge 250 and insurer B is free to charge 350.
However you carry on advocating for being a parasite on those that can't or won't.
So it’s only people who are not very bright who are anti Semitic? Is that what you pseuds are saying?
The philosophy you are pushing here is disgusting.
You are trying to make political point scoring out of anti Semitism. I’m embarrassed for you. You haven’t the first clue what you are blabbering on about. You are ignorant of your own history your own culture your own psyche.
British history is vehemently anti Semitic. It’s ingrained into the British culture, and in the psyche of so many posters here, who are oblivious to it, and think they, and Britain, have always been the good guys.
In addition:
1) Insurance is supposed to be priced on risk-based fundamentals. The fact that providers are basing their pricing on willingness to pay is bad, and indicative of a poorly functioning market.
2) Loyalty penalties are the exact opposite of what is supposed to happen, given how expensive it is to find new customers as opposed to retaining existing ones - again, evidence of market failure.
Bottom line, the insurance market should have resolved long ago without need for outside interference. The fact that it couldn't means regulatory intervention was needed.
Philanthropic!!
https://twitter.com/georgegrylls/status/1398278631785385984?s=21
He says this was a "significant failing" and the PM "unwisely" proceeded with the refurb.
https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1398279396797132803
Like every other form of collectivism, racism is a quest for the unearned. It is a quest for automatic knowledge—for an automatic evaluation of men’s characters that bypasses the responsibility of exercising rational or moral judgment—and, above all, a quest for an automatic self-esteem (or pseudo-self-esteem).
Wait.
How many more to do, to get to everybody (besides refuseniks)
However why on earth do you want to protect those that can but wont shop around????? Why do people who can and won't hunt out a better deal need protecting from their own laziness.
When I ran my business I provided a service which was potentially identical to all my customer (it depended upon how much they used it). I gave discounts to charities, I charged big organisations more because they got a larger benefit so they were willing to pay (even though the service from me was the same). What I charged is none of your or anyone else's business.
Where do you want to draw the line on this price protection? Do we all have to submit our price list to the Govt?
What I don't tend to do is use the "why don't they protest other stuff too?" technique to object to a protest I don't happen to like.
So, an anti-Israel protest, I won't be going, "Why don't they protest against China?"
And an anti-China protest, I won't be going, "Why don't they protest against Israel?"
Etc.
Not quite so sure about a beer club meeting. Maybe if you were discussing the beer club organisation and so it was a 'work' meeting
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19246600.scotland-covid-rules-scotland-enter-tier-3-differ-rest-uk/
Since it is clear that millions of Brits have yet to overcome their fit of the vapours about this might Boris expect a bounce from his already giddy heights in being cleared in this way? Or, more likely, did the great British public in their considerable wisdom never give a damn about this in the first place?