I wonder how many single doses of Johnson & Johnson we have and how soon it can be rolled out?
Given we're already at 1% of population per day, surging from here would be great news.
The real impact would be in allowing a major (proportional speaking) increase in first (and last!) vaccinations. We are running something like 150K average first vaccinations at the moment. So even 50K per day of J&J would be a noticeable change.
Will be available "later this year".
Doesn't sound promising. That's rather too late isn't it?
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
By no means alone. It's true that the campaign of the Israeli Ambassador Mark Regev to make the linkage between Israel and British Jews so solid that criticism of Israel and anti semitism is one and the same thing and many supporters of Palestinian rights have been cowed as a result.
Fortunately there's still a large body of British Jews who are still prepared to speak freely knowing charges of anti-semitism don't wash. The Jews have a proud history of supporting oppressed people, South Africa being a good example. You can be sure the campaign for Palestinian rights in Luton will have a reasonable number of Jewish supporters.
UK Jews don’t have a long history in UK of speaking out in the UK because for a very long time they were not allowed to openly exist here. If they were open, they had to surrender everything to the government, and then convert to an approved religion or bugger off.
The UK is institutionalised anti-semitic. It’s ingrained in its history, its culture, the psyche of all the British people.
Hence when the British comment on Israel-Palestine, the opinion of the British people is bent.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
I am not surprised. I also wouldnt be surprised if come August the Germans have much the same percentage of teh population vaccinated as we do. This will make all the nationalistic braggadocio look like, well, nationalistic braggadocio!
The most important thing with vaccinations are the first and last 20% of the population. First 20% near enough stops deaths, last 20% is the most important for reducing potential for future outbreaks.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
Everything for you is seen through your obsessional irrational hatred of the EU. You have absolutely no understanding of continental politics, much like everything else you pronounce on from the standpoint of ignorance, for that matter.
Continental politics has essential evolved in the direction of compromise. In order to facilitate that compromise you take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on, or fudged if you prefer the more pejorative term. It will happen with Switzerland, and they will maintain their half in half out position.
"You take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on"
So you approve of Boris Johnson's continental approach to negotiations?
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
By no means alone. It's true that the campaign of the Israeli Ambassador Mark Regev to make the linkage between Israel and British Jews so solid that criticism of Israel and anti semitism is one and the same thing and many supporters of Palestinian rights have been cowed as a result.
Fortunately there's still a large body of British Jews who are still prepared to speak freely knowing charges of anti-semitism don't wash. The Jews have a proud history of supporting oppressed people, South Africa being a good example. You can be sure the campaign for Palestinian rights in Luton will have a reasonable number of Jewish supporters.
UK Jews don’t have a long history in UK of speaking out in the UK because for a very long time they were not allowed to openly exist here. If they were open, they had to surrender everything to the government, and then convert to an approved religion or bugger off.
The UK is institutionalised anti-semitic. It’s ingrained in its history, its culture, the psyche of all the British people.
Hence when the British comment on Israel-Palestine, the opinion of the British people is bent.
Presumably attitudes are more enlightened in Zennor.
I wonder how many single doses of Johnson & Johnson we have and how soon it can be rolled out?
Given we're already at 1% of population per day, surging from here would be great news.
J&J will become the vaccine they give to initial refusers that they fear won't come back for a second dose.
You've got your finger on the pulse, will that be any time soon?
Sky saying "later this year" but later this year is surely too late? If we're supposed to be vaccinating everyone by end July - and as many as possible by 21 June - then how later is it going to be but still be useful?
What we need to know is how many "non UK-nationals" were legally resident:
More than 1.5 million people flew into the UK between January and April while the UK's borders were supposed to be heavily restricted, new figures reveal.
Home Office data shows that about two-thirds of arrivals in 2021 were non-UK nationals.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
A few points: 1. Any group has the absolute right to peaceful protest 2. Any group that "evolves" that peaceful protest into hate speeches saying rape the Jews should be locked up 3. It is anti-semitic to demand British Jews justify the actions of the Israeli government. You didn't quite step over that line but at least toed it.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
Everything for you is seen through your obsessional irrational hatred of the EU. You have absolutely no understanding of continental politics, much like everything else you pronounce on from the standpoint of ignorance, for that matter.
Continental politics has essential evolved in the direction of compromise. In order to facilitate that compromise you take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on, or fudged if you prefer the more pejorative term. It will happen with Switzerland, and they will maintain their half in half out position.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
Everything for you is seen through your obsessional irrational hatred of the EU. You have absolutely no understanding of continental politics, much like everything else you pronounce on from the standpoint of ignorance, for that matter.
Continental politics has essential evolved in the direction of compromise. In order to facilitate that compromise you take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on, or fudged if you prefer the more pejorative term. It will happen with Switzerland, and they will maintain their half in half out position.
"You take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on"
So you approve of Boris Johnson's continental approach to negotiations?
He isn't really following their approach, because most continentals don't have their positions scribbled on the back of a fag packet.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Two other long-standing issues on the other side:
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works 2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
Everything for you is seen through your obsessional irrational hatred of the EU. You have absolutely no understanding of continental politics, much like everything else you pronounce on from the standpoint of ignorance, for that matter.
Continental politics has essential evolved in the direction of compromise. In order to facilitate that compromise you take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on, or fudged if you prefer the more pejorative term. It will happen with Switzerland, and they will maintain their half in half out position.
"You take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on"
So you approve of Boris Johnson's continental approach to negotiations?
He isn't really following their approach, because most continentals don't have their positions scribbled on the back of a fag packet.
I am not surprised. I also wouldnt be surprised if come August the Germans have much the same percentage of teh population vaccinated as we do. This will make all the nationalistic braggadocio look like, well, nationalistic braggadocio!
The most important thing with vaccinations are the first and last 20% of the population. First 20% near enough stops deaths, last 20% is the most important for reducing potential for future outbreaks.
Perhaps, though I think you would find that 80% would be enough to significantly slow transmission. Not my point though!
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
By no means alone. It's true that the campaign of the Israeli Ambassador Mark Regev to make the linkage between Israel and British Jews so solid that criticism of Israel and anti semitism is one and the same thing and many supporters of Palestinian rights have been cowed as a result.
Fortunately there's still a large body of British Jews who are still prepared to speak freely knowing charges of anti-semitism don't wash. The Jews have a proud history of supporting oppressed people, South Africa being a good example. You can be sure the campaign for Palestinian rights in Luton will have a reasonable number of Jewish supporters.
UK Jews don’t have a long history in UK of speaking out in the UK because for a very long time they were not allowed to openly exist here. If they were open, they had to surrender everything to the government, and then convert to an approved religion or bugger off.
The UK is institutionalised anti-semitic. It’s ingrained in its history, its culture, the psyche of all the British people.
Hence when the British comment on Israel-Palestine, the opinion of the British people is bent.
Presumably attitudes are more enlightened in Zennor.
At last you agree with me. Everyone’s opinion is bent, shaped by longstanding history, and manipulated by politics.
The opinions you post here today you may be opposed to this time next year, that is fact, isn’t it?
I am not surprised. I also wouldnt be surprised if come August the Germans have much the same percentage of teh population vaccinated as we do. This will make all the nationalistic braggadocio look like, well, nationalistic braggadocio!
No it won't. Germany is way behind on vaccinations and no amount of 1984 rewriting of history will alter the fact that we were more organised than Germany. Germany is unfortunate by being hamstrung by the EU .
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
A few points: 1. Any group has the absolute right to peaceful protest 2. Any group that "evolves" that peaceful protest into hate speeches saying rape the Jews should be locked up 3. It is anti-semitic to demand British Jews justify the actions of the Israeli government. You didn't quite step over that line but at least toed it.
This subject causes surprising passion, and alarming stupidity.
Do you believe the Muslim Council in Luton has evolved in the direction that you state in (2)?
As for (3) I am nowhere near the making that “demand”. It’s a smear for you to suggest otherwise.
I wonder how many single doses of Johnson & Johnson we have and how soon it can be rolled out?
Given we're already at 1% of population per day, surging from here would be great news.
J&J will become the vaccine they give to initial refusers that they fear won't come back for a second dose.
You've got your finger on the pulse, will that be any time soon?
Sky saying "later this year" but later this year is surely too late? If we're supposed to be vaccinating everyone by end July - and as many as possible by 21 June - then how later is it going to be but still be useful?
I've heard end of July, it's not going to arrive soon enough for unlockdown.
I really think it's going to be used to sweep up refuseniks that want to go overseas. It's a good vaccine for that as you get it done in one shot and you can do it four weeks before flying to get ~70% efficacy against symptomatic COVID.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
Because many of the protesters think British Jews are responsible. Because they are anti-semitic. I think the Israeli government is appalling - but they're hardly alone. It is very odd that so much fuss is made about Israel and so little about all of the other states butchering and oppressing.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
Nothing to do with parochialism.
When was the last "Free Kurdistan" protest? Despite the atrocities in Kurdistan being much worse than that in Palestine?
I suppose Turks aren't Jews so who gives a shit about Kurds, eh?
Parochial means unconcerned with matters beyond your patch. Used impeccably by me here. Your 2nd point - if you protest one thing you have to protest everything else you're showing bias - is the old chestnut rolled out by people who just happen not to support the particular thing being protested.
I am not surprised. I also wouldnt be surprised if come August the Germans have much the same percentage of teh population vaccinated as we do. This will make all the nationalistic braggadocio look like, well, nationalistic braggadocio!
No it won't. Germany is way behind on vaccinations and no amount of 1984 rewriting of history will alter the fact that we were more organised than Germany. Germany is unfortunate by being hamstrung by the EU .
I suspect it is more likely that Germany is unfortunate in being handcuffed to their own previous minister of defence who they imposed on the EU. A woman of whom it could rightfully be said has no beginning to her talents.
So are you suggesting that we should intervene in a military capacity?
The UK is already intervening in a military capacity. It buys a lot of Israeli military hardware, hosts joint exercises in the UK for the IASF and the Chief of the Air Staff has just got back from an extended tour of Israeli air bases.
Having said that, the UK does send them Land Rover Defenders which can only impair the mobility of the IDF.
I wonder how many single doses of Johnson & Johnson we have and how soon it can be rolled out?
Given we're already at 1% of population per day, surging from here would be great news.
J&J will become the vaccine they give to initial refusers that they fear won't come back for a second dose.
You've got your finger on the pulse, will that be any time soon?
Sky saying "later this year" but later this year is surely too late? If we're supposed to be vaccinating everyone by end July - and as many as possible by 21 June - then how later is it going to be but still be useful?
I've heard end of July, it's not going to arrive soon enough for unlockdown.
I really think it's going to be used to sweep up refuseniks that want to go overseas. It's a good vaccine for that as you get it done in one shot and you can do it four weeks before flying to get ~70% efficacy against symptomatic COVID.
Right so essentially its too late for the vaccine rollout since that's meant to be done by end of July, but will be good for any refuseniks that change their mind and decide to go for it afterall?
Interesting and no doubt this weekends polls may prove more clarity on whether Cummings cut through
I don't know what other people's views are, but the idea that something like Cumming's performance will radically change opinion overnight I think is fanciful. I expect there to be little change, particularly while people are still pleased about the vaccine programme and furlough.
The impact of Cummings is more likely to be the "unfit for office " label. This won't resonate with the public at large until Johnson is seen to make more cock-ups (which will inevitably come). I think it will also have an effect on those around Johnson. "Unfit for office" is a label he will find difficult to shake off, as it will be in the minds of not just his rivals but everyone who sees him do or say something stupid, and that is also likely to be on a regular basis.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
Because many of the protesters think British Jews are responsible. Because they are anti-semitic. I think the Israeli government is appalling - but they're hardly alone. It is very odd that so much fuss is made about Israel and so little about all of the other states butchering and oppressing.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
A few points: 1. Any group has the absolute right to peaceful protest 2. Any group that "evolves" that peaceful protest into hate speeches saying rape the Jews should be locked up 3. It is anti-semitic to demand British Jews justify the actions of the Israeli government. You didn't quite step over that line but at least toed it.
Should the the right to peaceful protest extend through rival communities and around their places of worship, in the faces of the locals?
I say no. No one is entitled to that type of peaceful protest.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
Nothing to do with parochialism.
When was the last "Free Kurdistan" protest? Despite the atrocities in Kurdistan being much worse than that in Palestine?
I suppose Turks aren't Jews so who gives a shit about Kurds, eh?
Parochial means unconcerned with matters beyond your patch. Used impeccably by me here. Your 2nd point - if you protest one thing you have to protest everything else you're showing bias - is the old chestnut rolled out by people who just happen not to support the particular thing being protested.
Well yes, I don't support protesting only against the only Jewish state in the world that is literally defending itself from people who think #HitlerWasRight and openly say they seek the destruction of the world's only Jewish State.
What possible non-antisemitic reason is there to protest that but not protest against the oppression of Kurds in Kurdistan, the Uighur in China and so on and so forth?
I am not surprised. I also wouldnt be surprised if come August the Germans have much the same percentage of teh population vaccinated as we do. This will make all the nationalistic braggadocio look like, well, nationalistic braggadocio!
No it won't. Germany is way behind on vaccinations and no amount of 1984 rewriting of history will alter the fact that we were more organised than Germany. Germany is unfortunate by being hamstrung by the EU .
Of course comrade, you keep taking the tablets. Don't forget to pick up your copy of the Daily Express today!
So are you suggesting that we should intervene in a military capacity?
The UK is already intervening in a military capacity. It buys a lot of Israeli military hardware, hosts joint exercises in the UK for the IASF and the Chief of the Air Staff has just got back from an extended tour of Israeli air bases.
Having said that, the UK does send them Land Rover Defenders which can only impair the mobility of the IDF.
I wonder how many single doses of Johnson & Johnson we have and how soon it can be rolled out?
Given we're already at 1% of population per day, surging from here would be great news.
The real impact would be in allowing a major (proportional speaking) increase in first (and last!) vaccinations. We are running something like 150K average first vaccinations at the moment. So even 50K per day of J&J would be a noticeable change.
Personally I'd choose any two dose vaccine. J & J has a role for the lazy/hesitant though.
I wonder how many single doses of Johnson & Johnson we have and how soon it can be rolled out?
Given we're already at 1% of population per day, surging from here would be great news.
J&J will become the vaccine they give to initial refusers that they fear won't come back for a second dose.
You've got your finger on the pulse, will that be any time soon?
Sky saying "later this year" but later this year is surely too late? If we're supposed to be vaccinating everyone by end July - and as many as possible by 21 June - then how later is it going to be but still be useful?
I've heard end of July, it's not going to arrive soon enough for unlockdown.
I really think it's going to be used to sweep up refuseniks that want to go overseas. It's a good vaccine for that as you get it done in one shot and you can do it four weeks before flying to get ~70% efficacy against symptomatic COVID.
Right so essentially its too late for the vaccine rollout since that's meant to be done by end of July, but will be good for any refuseniks that change their mind and decide to go for it afterall?
Yes, that's my understanding of how the government wants to deploy it. Anyone who gets vaccinated in the next few weeks will get Pfizer/Moderna for under 40s or AZ for over 40s and then 4-8 weeks later they'll get their second dose.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
Because many of the protesters think British Jews are responsible. Because they are anti-semitic. I think the Israeli government is appalling - but they're hardly alone. It is very odd that so much fuss is made about Israel and so little about all of the other states butchering and oppressing.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
Bingo!
On this we can 100% agree with each other I hope.
Netanyahu is a twunt and I'd like to see him gone. But that doesn't justify seeking Israel's destruction and it doesn't justify this.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
Because many of the protesters think British Jews are responsible. Because they are anti-semitic. I think the Israeli government is appalling - but they're hardly alone. It is very odd that so much fuss is made about Israel and so little about all of the other states butchering and oppressing.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
I don’t get this criticism. Is it sinophobic to focus on Chinese abuse?
As far as I can tell, Israel enlivens passions because it is seen on the hard left through the prism of anti-imperialist critique.
In turn this can curdle into anti-semitism, a la Livingstone, although as @Roger explains it is very hard to separate legitimate criticism of Israel from a racist criticism of Jewish people; and that in turns suits some Israeli apologists and elements of the Right.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
Nothing to do with parochialism.
When was the last "Free Kurdistan" protest? Despite the atrocities in Kurdistan being much worse than that in Palestine?
I suppose Turks aren't Jews so who gives a shit about Kurds, eh?
Not you. A search reveals zero results for Kurds and @Philip_Thompson.
Well precisely, I'm not going on Free Palestine protests either, so no hypocrisy.
On the other hand the people concerned about the Jews, the whole Jews and nothing but the Jews - there's something a bit off there don't you think?
That's great, Philip. Demonstrating both your opposition to antisemitism and your utter lack of hypocrisy by not going on any protests about anything. If only there were more like you, this world would be a much better place.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
A few points: 1. Any group has the absolute right to peaceful protest 2. Any group that "evolves" that peaceful protest into hate speeches saying rape the Jews should be locked up 3. It is anti-semitic to demand British Jews justify the actions of the Israeli government. You didn't quite step over that line but at least toed it.
This subject causes surprising passion, and alarming stupidity.
Do you believe the Muslim Council in Luton has evolved in the direction that you state in (2)?
As for (3) I am nowhere near the making that “demand”. It’s a smear for you to suggest otherwise.
Its a truly fascinating piece of sophistry you are engaged in. You typed an anti-semitic statement: "Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should." and then pulled it back to just about ok by broadening it out to "perhaps we all should".
Come on, you know exactly what you wrote and how it reads. Why single out "the Luton Jewish Council" from "all" of us at all? What do I have to do with the actions of Israel? What do the Luton Jewish Council? "Nothing" is the answer.
Final point. In what decent civilisation should a group be "made uncomfortable" about something that is nothing to do with them? When the last time a group set out to make other non-connected Jews "uncomfortable" ended with drive by "rape the Jews" calls.
Interesting and no doubt this weekends polls may prove more clarity on whether Cummings cut through
I don't know what other people's views are, but the idea that something like Cumming's performance will radically change opinion overnight I think is fanciful. I expect there to be little change, particularly while people are still pleased about the vaccine programme and furlough.
The impact of Cummings is more likely to be the "unfit for office " label. This won't resonate with the public at large until Johnson is seen to make more cock-ups (which will inevitably come). I think it will also have an effect on those around Johnson. "Unfit for office" is a label he will find difficult to shake off, as it will be in the minds of not just his rivals but everyone who sees him do or say something stupid, and that is also likely to be on a regular basis.
Totally agree. This ongoing hollowing out of the government on trust and competence, especially on financial matters, will dramatically have an impact, but not in the polls anytime soon.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
Everything for you is seen through your obsessional irrational hatred of the EU. You have absolutely no understanding of continental politics, much like everything else you pronounce on from the standpoint of ignorance, for that matter.
Continental politics has essential evolved in the direction of compromise. In order to facilitate that compromise you take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on, or fudged if you prefer the more pejorative term. It will happen with Switzerland, and they will maintain their half in half out position.
Pathetic! I repeat. Get a Job!
Sorry, was that post meant for Philip Thompson? I have a job thanks, and a pretty good one. Your powers of debate suggest that analysis and response are not part of yours. Part of my job meant that I spent quite a large time travelling Europe and in particular Switzerland. So, no not pathetic, but a response to Philip posting a comment based upon an article in the non-too-partial DT. I think you might need to get a job, pillock!
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
A few points: 1. Any group has the absolute right to peaceful protest 2. Any group that "evolves" that peaceful protest into hate speeches saying rape the Jews should be locked up 3. It is anti-semitic to demand British Jews justify the actions of the Israeli government. You didn't quite step over that line but at least toed it.
Should the the right to peaceful protest extend through rival communities and around their places of worship, in the faces of the locals?
I say no. No one is entitled to that type of peaceful protest.
I agree. It is not peaceful protest when the aim is to have people "made uncomfortable" for their crime of being born. The protesters could stay in their own community, have a peaceful protest outside their local mosque and then go home.
So are you suggesting that we should intervene in a military capacity?
The UK is already intervening in a military capacity. It buys a lot of Israeli military hardware, hosts joint exercises in the UK for the IASF and the Chief of the Air Staff has just got back from an extended tour of Israeli air bases.
Having said that, the UK does send them Land Rover Defenders which can only impair the mobility of the IDF.
Punchline of the day 😆
The Defenders we had in Basra needed to have their fuel filters changed every three days and Chinese batteries that went completely flat in under 12 hours. It was utterly beyond the capabilities of the Royal Engineers Minus Education to keep them running so we just stole Hi-Luxes/L300s from the benighted Basrans. Sorry, I meant "confiscated them from insurgents".
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
Because many of the protesters think British Jews are responsible. Because they are anti-semitic. I think the Israeli government is appalling - but they're hardly alone. It is very odd that so much fuss is made about Israel and so little about all of the other states butchering and oppressing.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
Because many of the protesters think British Jews are responsible. Because they are anti-semitic. I think the Israeli government is appalling - but they're hardly alone. It is very odd that so much fuss is made about Israel and so little about all of the other states butchering and oppressing.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
I don’t get this criticism. Is it sinophobic to focus on Chinese abuse?
As far as I can tell, Israel enlivens passions because it is seen on the hard left through the prism of anti-imperialist critique.
In turn this can curdle into anti-semitism, a la Livingstone, although as @Roger explains it is very hard to separate legitimate criticism of Israel from a racist criticism of Jewish people; and that in turns suits some Israeli apologists and elements of the Right.
Its really simple. Legitimate criticism of Israel (and there is a LOT to criticise) should be aimed at Israel. Far too many - including the protesters in question - aim it at British Jews.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
A few points: 1. Any group has the absolute right to peaceful protest 2. Any group that "evolves" that peaceful protest into hate speeches saying rape the Jews should be locked up 3. It is anti-semitic to demand British Jews justify the actions of the Israeli government. You didn't quite step over that line but at least toed it.
This subject causes surprising passion, and alarming stupidity.
Do you believe the Muslim Council in Luton has evolved in the direction that you state in (2)?
As for (3) I am nowhere near the making that “demand”. It’s a smear for you to suggest otherwise.
Its a truly fascinating piece of sophistry you are engaged in. You typed an anti-semitic statement: "Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should." and then pulled it back to just about ok by broadening it out to "perhaps we all should".
Come on, you know exactly what you wrote and how it reads. Why single out "the Luton Jewish Council" from "all" of us at all? What do I have to do with the actions of Israel? What do the Luton Jewish Council? "Nothing" is the answer.
Final point. In what decent civilisation should a group be "made uncomfortable" about something that is nothing to do with them? When the last time a group set out to make other non-connected Jews "uncomfortable" ended with drive by "rape the Jews" calls.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
Everything for you is seen through your obsessional irrational hatred of the EU. You have absolutely no understanding of continental politics, much like everything else you pronounce on from the standpoint of ignorance, for that matter.
Continental politics has essential evolved in the direction of compromise. In order to facilitate that compromise you take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on, or fudged if you prefer the more pejorative term. It will happen with Switzerland, and they will maintain their half in half out position.
Pathetic! I repeat. Get a Job!
Sorry, was that post meant for Philip Thompson? I have a job thanks, and a pretty good one. Your powers of debate suggest that analysis and response are not part of yours. Part of my job meant that I spent quite a large time travelling Europe and in particular Switzerland. So, no not pathetic, but a response to Philip posting a comment based upon an article in the non-too-partial DT. I think you might need to get a job, pillock!
I think we finally found some consensus - Roger the pillock!
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
Because many of the protesters think British Jews are responsible. Because they are anti-semitic. I think the Israeli government is appalling - but they're hardly alone. It is very odd that so much fuss is made about Israel and so little about all of the other states butchering and oppressing.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
I don’t get this criticism. Is it sinophobic to focus on Chinese abuse?
As far as I can tell, Israel enlivens passions because it is seen on the hard left through the prism of anti-imperialist critique.
In turn this can curdle into anti-semitism, a la Livingstone, although as @Roger explains it is very hard to separate legitimate criticism of Israel from a racist criticism of Jewish people; and that in turns suits some Israeli apologists and elements of the Right.
Its really simple. Legitimate criticism of Israel (and there is a LOT to criticise) should be aimed at Israel. Far too many - including the protesters in question - aim it at British Jews.
Equating Jews with Israel is anti-semitism.
It really isn’t simple.
For example, you just said - with no evidence whatsoever - that the Muslim protesters will aim their protest at Jews.
Possibly that is true, for some.
But there’s no evidence that is their wholesale intent. You’re just making it up.
So are you suggesting that we should intervene in a military capacity?
The UK is already intervening in a military capacity. It buys a lot of Israeli military hardware, hosts joint exercises in the UK for the IASF and the Chief of the Air Staff has just got back from an extended tour of Israeli air bases.
Having said that, the UK does send them Land Rover Defenders which can only impair the mobility of the IDF.
Punchline of the day 😆
I've heard it said that the big Tornado sale to Saudi Arabia was a two-for-the-price-of-one - it paid for alot of British jobs and it made sure that the Saudis spent their money on Tornados, rather than something better.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
Because many of the protesters think British Jews are responsible. Because they are anti-semitic. I think the Israeli government is appalling - but they're hardly alone. It is very odd that so much fuss is made about Israel and so little about all of the other states butchering and oppressing.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
I don’t get this criticism. Is it sinophobic to focus on Chinese abuse?
As far as I can tell, Israel enlivens passions because it is seen on the hard left through the prism of anti-imperialist critique.
In turn this can curdle into anti-semitism, a la Livingstone, although as @Roger explains it is very hard to separate legitimate criticism of Israel from a racist criticism of Jewish people; and that in turns suits some Israeli apologists and elements of the Right.
Its really simple. Legitimate criticism of Israel (and there is a LOT to criticise) should be aimed at Israel. Far too many - including the protesters in question - aim it at British Jews.
Equating Jews with Israel is anti-semitism.
I think you should calm down here a bit. It is possible @Gardenwalker made a statement that could be misinterpreted, but I think accusing him of anti-Semitism is a bit much TBH
I wonder how many single doses of Johnson & Johnson we have and how soon it can be rolled out?
Given we're already at 1% of population per day, surging from here would be great news.
The real impact would be in allowing a major (proportional speaking) increase in first (and last!) vaccinations. We are running something like 150K average first vaccinations at the moment. So even 50K per day of J&J would be a noticeable change.
Will be available "later this year".
Doesn't sound promising. That's rather too late isn't it?
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
Everything for you is seen through your obsessional irrational hatred of the EU. You have absolutely no understanding of continental politics, much like everything else you pronounce on from the standpoint of ignorance, for that matter.
Continental politics has essential evolved in the direction of compromise. In order to facilitate that compromise you take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on, or fudged if you prefer the more pejorative term. It will happen with Switzerland, and they will maintain their half in half out position.
Pathetic! I repeat. Get a Job!
Sorry, was that post meant for Philip Thompson? I have a job thanks, and a pretty good one. Your powers of debate suggest that analysis and response are not part of yours. Part of my job meant that I spent quite a large time travelling Europe and in particular Switzerland. So, no not pathetic, but a response to Philip posting a comment based upon an article in the non-too-partial DT. I think you might need to get a job, pillock!
I think we finally found some consensus - Roger the pillock!
"Roger the pillock" sounds like a call to action which I might have to decline
So are you suggesting that we should intervene in a military capacity?
The UK is already intervening in a military capacity. It buys a lot of Israeli military hardware, hosts joint exercises in the UK for the IASF and the Chief of the Air Staff has just got back from an extended tour of Israeli air bases.
Having said that, the UK does send them Land Rover Defenders which can only impair the mobility of the IDF.
Punchline of the day 😆
I've heard it said that the big Tornado sale to Saudi Arabia was a two-for-the-price-of-one - it paid for alot of British jobs and it made sure that the Saudis spent their money on Tornados, rather than something better.
In the desert they would be better off with Mirage’s?
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
How is it "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" than what is happening to the Kurds? Or the Uighur? Or the Tibetans? Or many more?
So are you suggesting that we should intervene in a military capacity?
The UK is already intervening in a military capacity. It buys a lot of Israeli military hardware, hosts joint exercises in the UK for the IASF and the Chief of the Air Staff has just got back from an extended tour of Israeli air bases.
Having said that, the UK does send them Land Rover Defenders which can only impair the mobility of the IDF.
Punchline of the day 😆
I've heard it said that the big Tornado sale to Saudi Arabia was a two-for-the-price-of-one - it paid for alot of British jobs and it made sure that the Saudis spent their money on Tornados, rather than something better.
In the desert they would be better off with Mirage’s?
Mirages worked out quite nicely for the Israelis, IIRC.
Of course that could just be an illusion, created by Zionist propaganda.....
When these protests start happening outside the local Kebab shop you may have a point.
My local kebab shop is run by Kurds. Not sure what would happen if Turkish nationalists went in there.....
Round the corner, the chip shop is run by Green Cypriots. That could be fun as well.....
Well your Turkish barber then. Protesting against the actions of Israel outside their embassy is perfectly fine and understandable. Protesting by threatening Jews living in this country is not. This is not complicated.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
How is it "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" than what is happening to the Kurds? Or the Uighur? Or the Tibetans? Or many more?
You are implying there is something not right if it isn’t an all or nothing approach?
That there is only protest if you see it on the telly, without media presence it gets ignored? And that make the protestors hollow and gullible in some way?
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
Because many of the protesters think British Jews are responsible. Because they are anti-semitic. I think the Israeli government is appalling - but they're hardly alone. It is very odd that so much fuss is made about Israel and so little about all of the other states butchering and oppressing.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
🤙 You are on fire today Dale.
"ISRAEL MUST BE PUNISHED FOR GAZA" they cry, "IT'S A PRISON". Yep, and yet why are they no co-protesting Egypt who maintained part of the prison walls? Because they are anti-semites!
"ISRAEL MUST LET ALL THE REFUGEES COME HOME" they cry. What refugees? These are 4th or 5th generation decedents of refugees who have been denied the right to settle in Jordan or Lebanon or Syria parts of which were Palestine.
Europe has seen borders shift repeatedly. Do we have a few million Germans in refugee camps awaiting their return into Konigsberg? Or Poles into their lost territories?
When these protests start happening outside the local Kebab shop you may have a point.
My local kebab shop is run by Kurds. Not sure what would happen if Turkish nationalists went in there.....
Round the corner, the chip shop is run by Green Cypriots. That could be fun as well.....
Well your Turkish barber then. Protesting against the actions of Israel outside their embassy is perfectly fine and understandable. Protesting by threatening Jews living in this country is not. This is not complicated.
When these protests start happening outside the local Kebab shop you may have a point.
My local kebab shop is run by Kurds. Not sure what would happen if Turkish nationalists went in there.....
Round the corner, the chip shop is run by Green Cypriots. That could be fun as well.....
Well your Turkish barber then. Protesting against the actions of Israel outside their embassy is perfectly fine and understandable. Protesting by threatening Jews living in this country is not. This is not complicated.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
How is it "a more systematic oppression (akin to apartheid)" than what is happening to the Kurds? Or the Uighur? Or the Tibetans? Or many more?
You are implying there is something not right if it isn’t an all or nothing approach?
That there is only protest if you see it on the telly, without media presence it gets ignored? And that make the protestors hollow and gullible in some way?
I'm saying if you turn a blind eye to all the injustice in the world but get het up solely when Jews are involved then there's a word for that.
Criticising Israel is absolutely fine and not anti-Semitic, especially if you do it consistently the same as you would do it with other nations in the same circumstances.
Criticising only Israel in a way you don't do with anyone else, or expecting Jews to answer for Israel, that is not OK.
I've heard it said that the big Tornado sale to Saudi Arabia was a two-for-the-price-of-one - it paid for alot of British jobs and it made sure that the Saudis spent their money on Tornados, rather than something better.
It didn't really work because they went out and bought a shitload of F-15s at the same time.
The Saudis always liked their Tornado IDS jets - 7 squadron still operate them from Dhahran. Their F3s... not so much...
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
Because many of the protesters think British Jews are responsible. Because they are anti-semitic. I think the Israeli government is appalling - but they're hardly alone. It is very odd that so much fuss is made about Israel and so little about all of the other states butchering and oppressing.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
🤙 You are on fire today Dale.
"ISRAEL MUST BE PUNISHED FOR GAZA" they cry, "IT'S A PRISON". Yep, and yet why are they no co-protesting Egypt who maintained part of the prison walls? Because they are anti-semites!
"ISRAEL MUST LET ALL THE REFUGEES COME HOME" they cry. What refugees? These are 4th or 5th generation decedents of refugees who have been denied the right to settle in Jordan or Lebanon or Syria parts of which were Palestine.
Europe has seen borders shift repeatedly. Do we have a few million Germans in refugee camps awaiting their return into Konigsberg? Or Poles into their lost territories?
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
Because many of the protesters think British Jews are responsible. Because they are anti-semitic. I think the Israeli government is appalling - but they're hardly alone. It is very odd that so much fuss is made about Israel and so little about all of the other states butchering and oppressing.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
🤙 You are on fire today Dale.
"ISRAEL MUST BE PUNISHED FOR GAZA" they cry, "IT'S A PRISON". Yep, and yet why are they no co-protesting Egypt who maintained part of the prison walls? Because they are anti-semites!
"ISRAEL MUST LET ALL THE REFUGEES COME HOME" they cry. What refugees? These are 4th or 5th generation decedents of refugees who have been denied the right to settle in Jordan or Lebanon or Syria parts of which were Palestine.
Europe has seen borders shift repeatedly. Do we have a few million Germans in refugee camps awaiting their return into Konigsberg? Or Poles into their lost territories?
Precisely. Israel doesn't even occupy Gaza, Israel withdrew from Gaza years ago just as Egypt did before it (by losing a war to be fair).
I like a laugh as much as the next man, but try as I might I can't find a rich seam of humour in the public's indifference to government screw ups on coronavirus.
I've heard it said that the big Tornado sale to Saudi Arabia was a two-for-the-price-of-one - it paid for alot of British jobs and it made sure that the Saudis spent their money on Tornados, rather than something better.
It didn't really work because they went out and bought a shitload of F-15s at the same time.
The Saudis always liked their Tornado IDS jets - 7 squadron still operate them from Dhahran. Their F3s... not so much...
I used to work with a former F3 pilot. There was something about his insistence, unprompted, when pissed, that it was the World's Best Fighter...
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Two other long-standing issues on the other side:
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works 2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
When you say "character and guts", are you referring to our prime minister?
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
Because many of the protesters think British Jews are responsible. Because they are anti-semitic. I think the Israeli government is appalling - but they're hardly alone. It is very odd that so much fuss is made about Israel and so little about all of the other states butchering and oppressing.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
🤙 You are on fire today Dale.
"ISRAEL MUST BE PUNISHED FOR GAZA" they cry, "IT'S A PRISON". Yep, and yet why are they no co-protesting Egypt who maintained part of the prison walls? Because they are anti-semites!
"ISRAEL MUST LET ALL THE REFUGEES COME HOME" they cry. What refugees? These are 4th or 5th generation decedents of refugees who have been denied the right to settle in Jordan or Lebanon or Syria parts of which were Palestine.
Europe has seen borders shift repeatedly. Do we have a few million Germans in refugee camps awaiting their return into Konigsberg? Or Poles into their lost territories?
Or a boat full of European Jews, escaping to Israel, about to be sunk and murdered by the anti Semitic British?
I equated it to Playing the victim card is old as time, but very canny and powerful card of the old political deck. Regicide would not have happened on Charles I if he hadn’t manoeuvred for it himself, to play the victim card on his political opponents.
And both the state of Israel and displaced and unsettled Palestinians are playing it concurrently
I used the genius allegory of victim card in Bob Robert’s but it went straight over Gardenwalkers head 😕
So are you suggesting that we should intervene in a military capacity?
The UK is already intervening in a military capacity. It buys a lot of Israeli military hardware, hosts joint exercises in the UK for the IASF and the Chief of the Air Staff has just got back from an extended tour of Israeli air bases.
Having said that, the UK does send them Land Rover Defenders which can only impair the mobility of the IDF.
Punchline of the day 😆
I've heard it said that the big Tornado sale to Saudi Arabia was a two-for-the-price-of-one - it paid for alot of British jobs and it made sure that the Saudis spent their money on Tornados, rather than something better.
In the desert they would be better off with Mirage’s?
They nearly bought the Mirage 4000 which was a hot ship - it would do standstill to M2.0 at FL500 in under 4 minutes. In the end they bought the Mighty Eagle and the Mir4k was cancelled.
Regarding the Luton march. Am I alone in wondering why the fuck people are protesting in this country about the relations between two other countries?
No you won't be alone. There are a number of other ultra-parochials on here.
I don’t consider myself parochial at all. Indeed, in a previous employment I worked across the world. Sometimes mediating in international troublespots. I have lived in several other countries. Nothing about me is parochial.
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
We have tons of protests here about bad stuff going on elsewhere. And many people see this more as a systematic oppression (akin to apartheid) rather than simply another foreign war.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
As it happens, a peaceful protest outside a relevant nations embassy would not, in reality be a problem. However any protests that end in motorcades calling for mass rape (as did the recent one in London) is bringing a foreign war to this country. It must not be tolerated. It is essentially an act of war against the United Kingdom.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Two other long-standing issues on the other side:
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works 2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
When you say "character and guts", are you referring to our prime minister?
Funny how Brexity folk obsess about WW2 and yet have such a limited knowledge of the history of that conflict. Too much reading war comics I guess.
I suggest Mr. Fishing reads a little about Norwegian resistance against occupation before he insults their national character.
Comments
— Don't conflate elimination with eradication, proponents urge
https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/92332
I’m afraid I’m more Girondin than Jacobin.
Doesn't sound promising. That's rather too late isn't it?
A single-dose Covid vaccine made by Janssen has been approved for use in the UK by the medicines regulator.
The vaccine, which was 85% effective in stopping severe illness from Covid-19 in trials, has met expected safety standards.
Twenty million doses have been ordered for the UK and will arrive later this year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57283837
A search reveals zero results for Kurds and @Philip_Thompson.
Any idea why?
The UK is institutionalised anti-semitic. It’s ingrained in its history, its culture, the psyche of all the British people.
Hence when the British comment on Israel-Palestine, the opinion of the British people is bent.
On the other hand the people concerned about the Jews, the whole Jews and nothing but the Jews - there's something a bit off there don't you think?
I simply do not see why (presumably) U.K. citizens feel the need to bring foreign wars (for this is a war) to our country.
Who is talking about “the Jews etc” except Ken Livingstone, Rod Crosby, and mad Islamists?
So you approve of Boris Johnson's continental approach to negotiations?
Sky saying "later this year" but later this year is surely too late? If we're supposed to be vaccinating everyone by end July - and as many as possible by 21 June - then how later is it going to be but still be useful?
More than 1.5 million people flew into the UK between January and April while the UK's borders were supposed to be heavily restricted, new figures reveal.
Home Office data shows that about two-thirds of arrivals in 2021 were non-UK nationals.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-1-5m-people-flew-to-uk-in-first-four-months-of-2021-when-borders-were-meant-to-be-heavily-restricted-12318777
1. Any group has the absolute right to peaceful protest
2. Any group that "evolves" that peaceful protest into hate speeches saying rape the Jews should be locked up
3. It is anti-semitic to demand British Jews justify the actions of the Israeli government. You didn't quite step over that line but at least toed it.
Big story coming on Bellingcat this afternoon, expecting it about 2pm UK time.
Apparently not Russia related
1) the EU fetishises the Single Market because it's the only thing they've done that works
2) the EU expects countries to roll over like the Norwegians always do, but cannot handle a people with character and guts.
The opinions you post here today you may be opposed to this time next year, that is fact, isn’t it?
Do you believe the Muslim Council in Luton has evolved in the direction that you state in (2)?
As for (3) I am nowhere near the making that “demand”. It’s a smear for you to suggest otherwise.
I really think it's going to be used to sweep up refuseniks that want to go overseas. It's a good vaccine for that as you get it done in one shot and you can do it four weeks before flying to get ~70% efficacy against symptomatic COVID.
"It definitely isn't anti-semitism" goes the defence, "its just that we only care about Palestine and even then only care about Israel's actions and not Egypt, Jordan or Syria".
Having said that, the UK does send them Land Rover Defenders which can only impair the mobility of the IDF.
The impact of Cummings is more likely to be the "unfit for office " label. This won't resonate with the public at large until Johnson is seen to make more cock-ups (which will inevitably come). I think it will also have an effect on those around Johnson. "Unfit for office" is a label he will find difficult to shake off, as it will be in the minds of not just his rivals but everyone who sees him do or say something stupid, and that is also likely to be on a regular basis.
I say no. No one is entitled to that type of peaceful protest.
What possible non-antisemitic reason is there to protest that but not protest against the oppression of Kurds in Kurdistan, the Uighur in China and so on and so forth?
On this we can 100% agree with each other I hope.
Netanyahu is a twunt and I'd like to see him gone. But that doesn't justify seeking Israel's destruction and it doesn't justify this.
Is it sinophobic to focus on Chinese abuse?
As far as I can tell, Israel enlivens passions because it is seen on the hard left through the prism of anti-imperialist critique.
In turn this can curdle into anti-semitism, a la Livingstone, although as @Roger explains it is very hard to separate legitimate criticism of Israel from a racist criticism of Jewish people; and that in turns suits some Israeli apologists and elements of the Right.
Come on, you know exactly what you wrote and how it reads. Why single out "the Luton Jewish Council" from "all" of us at all? What do I have to do with the actions of Israel? What do the Luton Jewish Council? "Nothing" is the answer.
Final point. In what decent civilisation should a group be "made uncomfortable" about something that is nothing to do with them? When the last time a group set out to make other non-connected Jews "uncomfortable" ended with drive by "rape the Jews" calls.
5 seconds of googling got me one happening last month
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2987918041532725&id=1809404532717421
Equating Jews with Israel is anti-semitism.
Snap out of it.
For example, you just said - with no evidence whatsoever - that the Muslim protesters will aim their protest at Jews.
Possibly that is true, for some.
But there’s no evidence that is their wholesale intent. You’re just making it up.
Which is usually called...prejudice.
You just don't like the cause, that's all. Which is fair enough, but that's a different argument.
Are you saying all Islamists mad, or just the mad ones?
Round the corner, the chip shop is run by Green Cypriots. That could be fun as well.....
Of course that could just be an illusion, created by Zionist propaganda.....
That there is only protest if you see it on the telly, without media presence it gets ignored? And that make the protestors hollow and gullible in some way?
"ISRAEL MUST LET ALL THE REFUGEES COME HOME" they cry. What refugees? These are 4th or 5th generation decedents of refugees who have been denied the right to settle in Jordan or Lebanon or Syria parts of which were Palestine.
Europe has seen borders shift repeatedly. Do we have a few million Germans in refugee camps awaiting their return into Konigsberg? Or Poles into their lost territories?
Criticising Israel is absolutely fine and not anti-Semitic, especially if you do it consistently the same as you would do it with other nations in the same circumstances.
Criticising only Israel in a way you don't do with anyone else, or expecting Jews to answer for Israel, that is not OK.
The Saudis always liked their Tornado IDS jets - 7 squadron still operate them from Dhahran. Their F3s... not so much...
I equated it to Playing the victim card is old as time, but very canny and powerful card of the old political deck. Regicide would not have happened on Charles I if he hadn’t manoeuvred for it himself, to play the victim card on his political opponents.
And both the state of Israel and displaced and unsettled Palestinians are playing it concurrently
I used the genius allegory of victim card in Bob Robert’s but it went straight over Gardenwalkers head 😕
I suggest Mr. Fishing reads a little about Norwegian resistance against occupation before he insults their national character.