Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
James Ward @JamesWard73 It’s even better than that: it’s brilliant news. By my calcs, Hancock’s statistic (10% of people in hospital have had 2 doses of vaccine) implies the vaccine is having at least a 95% protective effect – and probably more like 98%, or maybe even higher. Let me explain… 1/n
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Same reason the police inform my employer when the hard left want to protest in the centre of Manchester. So we can make appropriate preparations.
Apparently some on the hard left hate bankers.
As an aside one of the coppers told us when the EDL and DFA want to protest in Piccadilly Gardens.
Apparently they hate people who look like me.
By "us", do you mean Asians? If so, that's as disgraceful as what's going on in Luton.
Telling businesses about demos in the area I'm happier with. They may want to take precautions. They shouldn't have to mind, and criminal damage should be prosecuted by the police.
It was us as the firm but I was the only non white person in the meeting.
Apparently the EDL hate anyone who doesn’t support them.
The Rozzers had intelligence that something was going to kick off that day.
Piccadilly Gardens I have to go through to get my train back at home.
Most employees were allowed to work from home that day.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
And there is the problem of right to protest. Freedom and Libertarianism gone mad.
Is it the right to simply walk down a street?
Or your right to get in peoples faces and make them feel uncomfortable and unsafe.
And on this the British government is always going to struggle, partitioning part of another country and claiming it as their own?
Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.
Jews <> Israel.
In the movie Bob Robert’s, whilst campaigning Bob is shot. The group gathering at the hospital are told it’s an immigrant who shot him - they spy an immigrant walking across the street, run over and kick him to death.
Our fellow poster Gardenwalker has just rushed across the street to deliver his justice for crimes committed by the guilty scumbags the immigrant belongs to?
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
And there is the problem of right to protest. Freedom and Libertarianism gone mad.
Is it the right to simply walk down a street?
Or your right to get in peoples faces and make them feel uncomfortable and unsafe.
And on this the British government is always going to struggle, partitioning part of another country and claiming it as their own?
Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.
Jews <> Israel.
In the movie Bob Robert’s, whilst campaigning Bob is shot. The group gathering at the hospital are told it’s an immigrant who shot him - they spy an immigrant walking across the street, run over and kick him to death.
Our fellow poster Gardenwalker has just rushed across the street to deliver his justice for crimes committed by the guilty scumbags the immigrant belongs to?
One thing that never seems to be addressed is this - in the Middle East (and other parts of the Muslim world), Jews and Israel are conflated in the usual state propaganda. Blame Israel for {insert here} is used as a useful prop and excuse for life in dictatorial regimes. Racism is preached by the state.
So people coming from these countries have been steeped in racism regarding Jews.
I used to work for an oil company. Due to hiring policies, we had quite a few people moving between countries. We had some interesting times with people coming from Saudi (and elsewhere), who were not "Westernised". The moment when they discovered that their new boss was Jewish was always a moment, for example. Or a woman.
Interestingly, without exception (in my experience), they adjusted quite rapidly.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
"Fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, free Palestine." is what I remember from the most recent one.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
"Fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, free Palestine." is what I remember from the most recent one.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
"Fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, free Palestine." is what I remember from the most recent one.
In Brussels there was shock and anger. In Switzerland, quiet celebration and relief — but, for some, doubts about what exactly comes next.
On Wednesday, Bern announced it was formally withdrawing from negotiations to codify future relations with the EU into a single overarching “framework agreement” — a back-and-forth exchange that has dominated an increasingly fraught relationship with Brussels since 2014.
“You’d never sign a contract like that in business,” said Philip Erzinger, the head of a Kompass Europe, an anti-framework agreement campaign group. “It was one sided. It required us to take on EU law without any mechanism for saying No. It would have been a direct interference in our system of direct democracy and cantons in Switzerland.”
Yet again EU bullying fails to overcome democracy and national sovereignty.
We should certainly help the brave Swiss as much as possible.
The problem with the EU which has become clear since 2016 is they seem to have created a 21st century version of the Monroe doctrine. They clearly see the entire European continent (except Russia) as their sphere of influence and expect all countries within it to follow their values and principles.
Unfortunately, when their values and principles collide with the will of voters in places such as the UK and Switzerland this leads to venom from the Commission and they begin to see strong, respected democracies as a larger threat than regimes such as China.
One problem they do have is not confronting the illiberal and undemocratic behaviour of some of the countries within the EU - Hungary and Poland, for instance.
Still we can hardly talk - the PM is meeting with Orban today. Will he criticise his anti-semitism? Or is anti-semitism only bad when it is spread by Labour supporters?
I think it’s ok for Johnson to meet Orban (or Putin, or Xi), although I’m not sure what the particular point is.
He's on a tour of European capitals so it would be a very obvious snub to refuse to meet him - he's also the Chair of the Visegrad Group.
People seem to be under the impression that Johnson's specially invited him.
How many have you been asked to self isolate in the last 3 months?
Not in the lats 3 months, but I did have one period in November. This was from a close contact from a project student in a very well ventilated lab (think 30 fume cupboards, so massive air turnover) plus visors and trying to distance.
Dr Deepti Gurdasani on BBC News saying we can’t unlock etc.
Presenter tells her that ONS are reporting that the level of COVID in England is staying the same.
The Dr says it’s concerning that the data isn’t reflecting what’s actually happening.
Seriously, why are these people allowed on TV?
Pagel was on Radio 4 this morning too, claiming once again that the vaccines aren't as effective against the new variant which is true, but wording it in a way to make it sound like a dramatic reduction in effectiveness to the verge of it being pointless to be vaccinated. (An E. Macron of Paris would be very proud.)
It's dangerous, panic inducing talk from the Zero COVID group like this that will increase anti vax sentiment, and I'm sure that'll do them just fine as it'll be proof to them that we can only lockdown until COVID is eradicated, while the rest of the country just wants to get on.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
"Fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, free Palestine." is what I remember from the most recent one.
So you would ban all Muslim protests?
I think you are conflating Islam and Palestine.
Actually you seem to be conflating all Muslims with those who use the words you typed.
You should probably apologise to the board for gross racism.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
And there is the problem of right to protest. Freedom and Libertarianism gone mad.
Is it the right to simply walk down a street?
Or your right to get in peoples faces and make them feel uncomfortable and unsafe.
And on this the British government is always going to struggle, partitioning part of another country and claiming it as their own?
Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.
Jesus! You really think some British citizens should be made to feel uncomfortable about what a foreign state does. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Let's see how far this goes: should we go to Chinese restaurants in Soho and berate their owners and workers for what is happening to the Uighurs?
It is the point of protest to discomfort; otherwise it is largely a waste of time.
To turn to your example, are the Muslim Council in Luton planning to protest outside synagogues and berate the owners of Jewish delis?
No, I thought not.
The problem is that we get into
1) the intentions of some of the organisers 2) the intentions of other of the organisers 3) the intentions of some of those planning to attend 4) the intentions of some fuckwits planning to start something
Which is the complex situation that the police etc find themselves in when banning/not banning demos
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No. I am fine living in a country with no go areas for Jews in it. No concerning historical precedents at all.
My partner has a part time job as an assistant registrar and took a couple of marriage ceremonies on the Saturday the most recent Rangers 'celebrations' were taking place. One of the couples was Muslim (he of Pakistani origin, she unusually I think Romanian but wearing traditional dress) and she strongly advised them not to walk through George Square after the ceremony. I'd guess most Jews or Catholics aren't easily identifiable but might avoid these situations anyway, and If you're a priest or an Hasidic Jew it's useful to know these events are happening so you can avoid them.
Dr Deepti Gurdasani on BBC News saying we can’t unlock etc.
Presenter tells her that ONS are reporting that the level of COVID in England is staying the same.
The Dr says it’s concerning that the data isn’t reflecting what’s actually happening.
Seriously, why are these people allowed on TV?
Pagel was on Radio 4 this morning too, claiming once again that the vaccines aren't as effective against the new variant which is true, but wording it in a way to make it sound like a dramatic reduction in effectiveness to the verge of it being pointless to be vaccinated. (An E. Macron of Paris would be very proud.)
It's dangerous, panic inducing talk from the Zero COVID group like this that will increase anti vax sentiment, and I'm sure that'll do them just fine as it'll be proof to them that we can only lockdown until COVID is eradicated, while the rest of the country just wants to get on.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
"Fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, free Palestine." is what I remember from the most recent one.
So you would ban all Muslim protests?
I think you are conflating Islam and Palestine.
Actually you seem to be conflating all Muslims with those who use the words you typed.
You should probably apologise to the board for gross racism.
Are you feeling OK?
Why are you making the assumption that the Fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, free Palestine guys were Muslims? I have seen no reporting to that effect.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
And there is the problem of right to protest. Freedom and Libertarianism gone mad.
Is it the right to simply walk down a street?
Or your right to get in peoples faces and make them feel uncomfortable and unsafe.
And on this the British government is always going to struggle, partitioning part of another country and claiming it as their own?
Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.
Jesus! You really think some British citizens should be made to feel uncomfortable about what a foreign state does. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Let's see how far this goes: should we go to Chinese restaurants in Soho and berate their owners and workers for what is happening to the Uighurs?
It is the point of protest to discomfort; otherwise it is largely a waste of time.
To turn to your example, are the Muslim Council in Luton planning to protest outside synagogues and berate the owners of Jewish delis?
No, I thought not.
The problem is that we get into
1) the intentions of some of the organisers 2) the intentions of other of the organisers 3) the intentions of some of those planning to attend 4) the intentions of some fuckwits planning to start something
Which is the complex situation that the police etc find themselves in when banning/not banning demos
One metric is "What is likely to happen?"
I agree.
But no one on here is putting forward evidence that bad things will happen.
This was originally posted as a kind of sub-Daily Mail comments board “Look what the police are enabling now...” by @isam.
Then others have rushed in to make rather stupid, bad faith arguments.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
Sturgeon: case numbers have increased by more than a quarter in Scotland in the last week. Doubled from where they were in early party of May. Largest daily increase since late March. R could be as high as 1.3- driven largely by Glasgow. https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1398237965286100993
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
"Fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, free Palestine." is what I remember from the most recent one.
So you would ban all Muslim protests?
I think you are conflating Islam and Palestine.
Actually you seem to be conflating all Muslims with those who use the words you typed.
You should probably apologise to the board for gross racism.
Are you feeling OK?
Why are you making the assumption that the Fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, free Palestine guys were Muslims? I have seen no reporting to that effect.
I’m not. Please show me that happened please.
All I saw was you bringing up some criminal behaviour from a previous protest and - one assumes - implying it will happen again in Luton.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
And there is the problem of right to protest. Freedom and Libertarianism gone mad.
Is it the right to simply walk down a street?
Or your right to get in peoples faces and make them feel uncomfortable and unsafe.
And on this the British government is always going to struggle, partitioning part of another country and claiming it as their own?
Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.
Jesus! You really think some British citizens should be made to feel uncomfortable about what a foreign state does. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Let's see how far this goes: should we go to Chinese restaurants in Soho and berate their owners and workers for what is happening to the Uighurs?
It is the point of protest to discomfort; otherwise it is largely a waste of time.
To turn to your example, are the Muslim Council in Luton planning to protest outside synagogues and berate the owners of Jewish delis?
No, I thought not.
The problem is that we get into
1) the intentions of some of the organisers 2) the intentions of other of the organisers 3) the intentions of some of those planning to attend 4) the intentions of some fuckwits planning to start something
Which is the complex situation that the police etc find themselves in when banning/not banning demos
One metric is "What is likely to happen?"
I agree.
But no one on here is putting forward evidence that bad things will happen.
This was originally posted as a kind of sub-Daily Mail comments board “Look what the police are enabling now...” by @isam.
Then others have rushed in to make rather stupid, bad faith arguments.
Yes.
As it happens, I think it utterly certain that *some* anti-semitic behaviour will occur. The question is the proportion.
Also the response of those organising the march and their stewards.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
You are not alone in defending this. I have stated clearly that people are free to protest within the law.
What is being queried is why you think that Jews in Luton - British citizens - should be made to feel uncomfortable about what the Israeli government does?
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
You are not alone in defending this. I have stated clearly that people are free to protest within the law.
What is being queried is why you think that Jews in Luton - British citizens - should be made to feel uncomfortable about what the Israeli government does?
We all should. That is the point of protest.
What I was trying to say was that the rights of the Jewish community to be not be offended (made uncomfortable) do not trump the right to protest/dissent.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
I think it's Swixit, at least that's what my wife calls it. She's also very happy with the government pulling he plug on the treaty. It always used to grate when her Swiss friends would moan about brexit, so that's a nice win for me.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
The political class in Switzerland is quite pro EU. They were hoping that something would turn up, probably. The issue came when it became clear that the EU was going to present and agreement that wasn't compatible the Swiss system. And changing that would require a referendum.....
Dr Deepti Gurdasani on BBC News saying we can’t unlock etc.
Presenter tells her that ONS are reporting that the level of COVID in England is staying the same.
The Dr says it’s concerning that the data isn’t reflecting what’s actually happening.
Seriously, why are these people allowed on TV?
Pagel was on Radio 4 this morning too, claiming once again that the vaccines aren't as effective against the new variant which is true, but wording it in a way to make it sound like a dramatic reduction in effectiveness to the verge of it being pointless to be vaccinated. (An E. Macron of Paris would be very proud.)
It's dangerous, panic inducing talk from the Zero COVID group like this that will increase anti vax sentiment, and I'm sure that'll do them just fine as it'll be proof to them that we can only lockdown until COVID is eradicated, while the rest of the country just wants to get on.
Some seem to have leapt on the 33% after one dose, which as others have explained will surely improve over time. We know that the AZ vaccine gives increasing protection over 12 weeks, and perforce most people will not be that long since the dose.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
And there is the problem of right to protest. Freedom and Libertarianism gone mad.
Is it the right to simply walk down a street?
Or your right to get in peoples faces and make them feel uncomfortable and unsafe.
And on this the British government is always going to struggle, partitioning part of another country and claiming it as their own?
Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.
Jews <> Israel.
Another poster who is unable to read.
How does this read?
“ Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. “
It’s particularly vicious to take one line from a paragraph and attempt to smear a fellow poster with it.
I’ll assume it’s just sub-IQ on your part rather than deliberate malice.
Okay, here is the whole paragraph, the whole post, how does this read to you
“ Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.‘
Israel is an ally of ours and we're a significant supplier of arms to them. To say that perhaps we should feel uncomfortable about how they are prosecuting their conflict with the Palestinians does not strike me as a particularly wild or reprehensible sentiment.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
And there is the problem of right to protest. Freedom and Libertarianism gone mad.
Is it the right to simply walk down a street?
Or your right to get in peoples faces and make them feel uncomfortable and unsafe.
And on this the British government is always going to struggle, partitioning part of another country and claiming it as their own?
Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.
Jews <> Israel.
Another poster who is unable to read.
How does this read?
“ Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. “
It’s particularly vicious to take one line from a paragraph and attempt to smear a fellow poster with it.
I’ll assume it’s just sub-IQ on your part rather than deliberate malice.
Okay, here is the whole paragraph, the whole post, how does this read to you
“ Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.‘
Yep. And?
It does come across as if you are saying Jews everywhere should be made to feel uncomfortable by what Israel are doing to Palestinians?
And the missing the bit about Israelis uncomfortable by the Palestinian terrorism inflicted on them?
Where did I say “Jews everywhere”? I didn’t. It’s your pathetic invention. Please read what I wrote. Read it and understand it!
As for Israelis, what about them?
If Israelis wish to organise a protest I am all for it. And it said protest makes Palestianians uncomfortable, I am all for it as well.
I’ll say it again.
In the movie Bob Robert’s, whilst campaigning Bob is shot. The group gathering at the hospital are told it’s an immigrant who shot him - they spy an immigrant walking across the street, run over and kick him to death.
And that’s what you did isn’t it, rushed across the street and kicked the immigrant for the crime other immigrants committed?
Sturgeon: case numbers have increased by more than a quarter in Scotland in the last week. Doubled from where they were in early party of May. Largest daily increase since late March. R could be as high as 1.3- driven largely by Glasgow. https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1398237965286100993
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
And there is the problem of right to protest. Freedom and Libertarianism gone mad.
Is it the right to simply walk down a street?
Or your right to get in peoples faces and make them feel uncomfortable and unsafe.
And on this the British government is always going to struggle, partitioning part of another country and claiming it as their own?
Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.
Jews <> Israel.
Another poster who is unable to read.
How does this read?
“ Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. “
It’s particularly vicious to take one line from a paragraph and attempt to smear a fellow poster with it.
I’ll assume it’s just sub-IQ on your part rather than deliberate malice.
Okay, here is the whole paragraph, the whole post, how does this read to you
“ Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.‘
Yep. And?
It does come across as if you are saying Jews everywhere should be made to feel uncomfortable by what Israel are doing to Palestinians?
And the missing the bit about Israelis uncomfortable by the Palestinian terrorism inflicted on them?
Where did I say “Jews everywhere”? I didn’t. It’s your pathetic invention. Please read what I wrote. Read it and understand it!
As for Israelis, what about them?
If Israelis wish to organise a protest I am all for it. And it said protest makes Palestianians uncomfortable, I am all for it as well.
I’ll say it again.
In the movie Bob Robert’s, whilst campaigning Bob is shot. The group gathering at the hospital are told it’s an immigrant who shot him - they spy an immigrant walking across the street, run over and kick him to death.
And that’s what you did isn’t it, rushed across the street and kicked the immigrant for the crime other immigrants committed?
Yep. You’ve got me bang to rights. Bob Roberts made me do it. I kicked the immigrant to death.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
By no means alone. It's true that the campaign of the Israeli Ambassador Mark Regev to make the linkage between Israel and British Jews so solid that criticism of Israel and anti semitism is one and the same thing and many supporters of Palestinian rights have been cowed as a result.
Fortunately there's still a large body of British Jews who are still prepared to speak freely knowing charges of anti-semitism don't wash. The Jews have a proud history of supporting oppressed people, South Africa being a good example. You can be sure the campaign for Palestinian rights in Luton will have a reasonable number of Jewish supporters.
Dr Deepti Gurdasani on BBC News saying we can’t unlock etc.
Presenter tells her that ONS are reporting that the level of COVID in England is staying the same.
The Dr says it’s concerning that the data isn’t reflecting what’s actually happening.
Seriously, why are these people allowed on TV?
Pagel was on Radio 4 this morning too, claiming once again that the vaccines aren't as effective against the new variant which is true, but wording it in a way to make it sound like a dramatic reduction in effectiveness to the verge of it being pointless to be vaccinated. (An E. Macron of Paris would be very proud.)
It's dangerous, panic inducing talk from the Zero COVID group like this that will increase anti vax sentiment, and I'm sure that'll do them just fine as it'll be proof to them that we can only lockdown until COVID is eradicated, while the rest of the country just wants to get on.
They need banning. Utterly disgraceful.
They are incoherent. Whitty said as far back as March I think it was that they need to define what "Zero Covid" is. SW England now has levels of infection that Indie Sage said would allow full reopening. Gurdasani herself has said she doesn't mean "eradication" but "elimination". What's the difference?
Now they are piling on PHE and its scientists with conspiracy theories about the data - there was a minor Twitter storm at the weekend when one of them suggested that PHE had attempted to bury bad news by realising it during Eurovision.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
They should be protesting just not peacefully as that is completely pointless.
Exactly.
People seem to think protest is should operate along the same lines as a WI jam-making competition.
I’m afraid I take the French attitude in these matters.
As long as the police can imitate their french counterparts when dealing with violent protestors. You may enjoy widespread mayhem but most won't. Most people don't want to cede the streets to thugs
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
And there is the problem of right to protest. Freedom and Libertarianism gone mad.
Is it the right to simply walk down a street?
Or your right to get in peoples faces and make them feel uncomfortable and unsafe.
And on this the British government is always going to struggle, partitioning part of another country and claiming it as their own?
Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.
Jews <> Israel.
Another poster who is unable to read.
How does this read?
“ Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. “
It’s particularly vicious to take one line from a paragraph and attempt to smear a fellow poster with it.
I’ll assume it’s just sub-IQ on your part rather than deliberate malice.
Okay, here is the whole paragraph, the whole post, how does this read to you
“ Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.‘
Yep. And?
It does come across as if you are saying Jews everywhere should be made to feel uncomfortable by what Israel are doing to Palestinians?
And the missing the bit about Israelis uncomfortable by the Palestinian terrorism inflicted on them?
Where did I say “Jews everywhere”? I didn’t. It’s your pathetic invention. Please read what I wrote. Read it and understand it!
As for Israelis, what about them?
If Israelis wish to organise a protest I am all for it. And it said protest makes Palestianians uncomfortable, I am all for it as well.
I’ll say it again.
In the movie Bob Robert’s, whilst campaigning Bob is shot. The group gathering at the hospital are told it’s an immigrant who shot him - they spy an immigrant walking across the street, run over and kick him to death.
And that’s what you did isn’t it, rushed across the street and kicked the immigrant for the crime other immigrants committed?
Yep. You’ve got me bang to rights. Bob Roberts made me do it. I kicked the immigrant to death.
What are you talking about, you clown?
You are digging yourself into a hole, and the mistake you are making was picking a side, on the basis of you know what is fair, and what freedom is, without realising it’s politics, at play, on you thwarting you from knowing that.
You know the moment Black Death broke out in Italy the Jewish villages were torched on basis they were responsible for it? It wasn’t actually true, it was politics.
The truth was, Bob hadn’t been shot by an immigrant, it was spin, a rouse created by himself to appear the victim.
Playing the victim card is old as time, but very canny and powerful card of the old political deck. Regicide would not have happened on Charles I if he hadn’t manoeuvred for it himself, to play the victim card on his political opponents.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
The FT piece is wrong.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
Indeed though the Swiss and the EU spent years negotiating on that despite the issues, rather than ruling it out immediately.
Everything for you is seen through your obsessional irrational hatred of the EU. You have absolutely no understanding of continental politics, much like everything else you pronounce on from the standpoint of ignorance, for that matter.
Continental politics has essential evolved in the direction of compromise. In order to facilitate that compromise you take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on, or fudged if you prefer the more pejorative term. It will happen with Switzerland, and they will maintain their half in half out position.
Johnson & Johnson Janssen vaccine approved for use.
Finally! Now we can surge!
Single dose too. I had come to think this was never going to be approved given the AZN clot issues.
Have you got a source? (For the news, not the jab...)
Sky.
Not on the website?
Presenter just announced it as "Breaking News" and its on the ticker. But they just had that, confirming it was single dose, then went back to normal reporting. Approved for use in the UK.
Probably be a few minutes for websites to be updated.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
And there is the problem of right to protest. Freedom and Libertarianism gone mad.
Is it the right to simply walk down a street?
Or your right to get in peoples faces and make them feel uncomfortable and unsafe.
And on this the British government is always going to struggle, partitioning part of another country and claiming it as their own?
Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.
Jews <> Israel.
Another poster who is unable to read.
How does this read?
“ Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. “
It’s particularly vicious to take one line from a paragraph and attempt to smear a fellow poster with it.
I’ll assume it’s just sub-IQ on your part rather than deliberate malice.
Okay, here is the whole paragraph, the whole post, how does this read to you
“ Unsafe, no. Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.‘
Yep. And?
It does come across as if you are saying Jews everywhere should be made to feel uncomfortable by what Israel are doing to Palestinians?
And the missing the bit about Israelis uncomfortable by the Palestinian terrorism inflicted on them?
Where did I say “Jews everywhere”? I didn’t. It’s your pathetic invention. Please read what I wrote. Read it and understand it!
As for Israelis, what about them?
If Israelis wish to organise a protest I am all for it. And it said protest makes Palestianians uncomfortable, I am all for it as well.
I’ll say it again.
In the movie Bob Robert’s, whilst campaigning Bob is shot. The group gathering at the hospital are told it’s an immigrant who shot him - they spy an immigrant walking across the street, run over and kick him to death.
And that’s what you did isn’t it, rushed across the street and kicked the immigrant for the crime other immigrants committed?
Yep. You’ve got me bang to rights. Bob Roberts made me do it. I kicked the immigrant to death.
What are you talking about, you clown?
You are digging yourself into a hole, and the mistake you are making was picking a side, on the basis of you know what is fair, and what freedom is, without realising it’s politics, at play, on you thwarting you from knowing that.
You know the moment Black Death broke out in Italy the Jewish villages were torched on basis they were responsible for it? It wasn’t actually true, it was politics.
The truth was, Bob hadn’t been shot by an immigrant, it was spin, a rouse created by himself to appear the victim.
Playing the victim card is old as time, but very canny and powerful card of the old political deck. Regicide would not have happened on Charles I if he hadn’t manoeuvred for it himself, to play the victim card on his political opponents.
The only hole being dug is the one where your brain was.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
You are not alone in defending this. I have stated clearly that people are free to protest within the law.
What is being queried is why you think that Jews in Luton - British citizens - should be made to feel uncomfortable about what the Israeli government does?
We all should. That is the point of protest.
What I was trying to say was that the rights of the Jewish community to be not be offended (made uncomfortable) do not trump the right to protest/dissent.
Well if that is now what you are saying it is different from what you said earlier.
No-one has suggested that the protest should be stopped because people might not like it. They have queried why some people should be told to avoid the area because that sounds as if trouble is expected. They have queried why one group should be made to feel that they cannot walk freely around their home town even when a lawful protest is happening. It should be possible in a free society to have both.
And above all they have queried your very clear statement that British citizens who happen to be Jewish should be made to feel uncomfortable about the actions of a foreign state, as if they in particular bear some responsibility for it or should somehow be blamed. That is to my mind a reprehensible view to take.
Yes. Am I supposed to be upset that people wish to protest?
I think that is a Star of David with LUS inside it (Luton Something Synagogue?) and the message is that the area will be unsafe for Jews.
Yep, saw that. Does that mean the Muslim Council should abandon their protest?
No, just that the police shouldn't be telling people with certain characteristics to avoid areas due to potential racists.
Imagine the police advising Asians or whoever to avoid an area with an EDL demo or something.
Strictly speaking, the police are not advising, they are informing. It is the Council who are advising in this instance.
Distinction without a difference. Why should the police inform any specific people about a particular demo?
Sounds smart to me. Community relations.
People reading more into this have some weird political point they want to make, which can basically be reduced to “Muslims are bad and the police are letting them”.
It was barely a couple of weeks ago that we had people protesting for Palestine threatening violence and rape on the streets of London in areas where Jewish people lived.
Sure - we can have peaceful demos if the possible targets hide away at home. Just as women would be much less likely to be attacked if they stayed at home and never went out. Surprised you think that's the sort of society we should have.
I'd prefer one where people can protest peacefully and anyone can go and watch or walk about any part of their home town without being told to stay away because they might be the target of abuse or attack.
But each to their own, eh!
Yes, and those nutters were dealt with by the police.
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
You must have missed the bit where I said clearly and unambiguously that people were free to protest.
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
I am standing up (seemingly alone) for the right of Muslims (or anyone) to protest the shocking state of affairs in Palestine.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
You are not alone in defending this. I have stated clearly that people are free to protest within the law.
What is being queried is why you think that Jews in Luton - British citizens - should be made to feel uncomfortable about what the Israeli government does?
We all should. That is the point of protest.
What I was trying to say was that the rights of the Jewish community to be not be offended (made uncomfortable) do not trump the right to protest/dissent.
Well if that is now what you are saying it is different from what you said earlier.
No-one has suggested that the protest should be stopped because people might not like it. They have queried why some people should be told to avoid the area because that sounds as if trouble is expected. They have queried why one group should be made to feel that they cannot walk freely around their home town even when a lawful protest is happening. It should be possible in a free society to have both.
And above all they have queried your very clear statement that British citizens who happen to be Jewish should be made to feel uncomfortable about the actions of a foreign state, as if they in particular bear some responsibility for it or should somehow be blamed. That is to my mind a reprehensible view to take.
I wonder how many single doses of Johnson & Johnson we have and how soon it can be rolled out?
Given we're already at 1% of population per day, surging from here would be great news.
The real impact would be in allowing a major (proportional speaking) increase in first (and last!) vaccinations. We are running something like 150K average first vaccinations at the moment. So even 50K per day of J&J would be a noticeable change.
I am not surprised. I also wouldnt be surprised if come August the Germans have much the same percentage of teh population vaccinated as we do. This will make all the nationalistic braggadocio look like, well, nationalistic braggadocio!
Comments
I’m surprised at you; you seem to be resiling your own beliefs in the right to protest.
Edit; the stuff about women is also totally beneath you.
There is probably more value in the hardware than the electricity stolen.
James Ward
@JamesWard73
It’s even better than that: it’s brilliant news. By my calcs, Hancock’s statistic (10% of people in hospital have had 2 doses of vaccine) implies the vaccine is having at least a 95% protective effect – and probably more like 98%, or maybe even higher. Let me explain… 1/n
https://twitter.com/JamesWard73/status/1397884961227689984
Which you pretty much made. Pretty much.
Apparently the EDL hate anyone who doesn’t support them.
The Rozzers had intelligence that something was going to kick off that day.
Piccadilly Gardens I have to go through to get my train back at home.
Most employees were allowed to work from home that day.
Is it G&T time yet?
And no the bit about women matters because it is exactly the same mindset - that it is the victims who should take action not the assailants. The threats on the streets of London were of rape against women. It largely seems to have been overlooked.
Our fellow poster Gardenwalker has just rushed across the street to deliver his justice for crimes committed by the guilty scumbags the immigrant belongs to?
I’ve not bought any work clothes for nearly 18 months and this weekend I get buy some new stuff as the old clothes are too big.
The fact that it makes the Luton United Synagogue wary may be regrettable, but unless someone can tell me that a Muslim or pro-Palestine protest is a priori anti-Semitic and likely violent, I will defend their democratic right to hold it.
So people coming from these countries have been steeped in racism regarding Jews.
I used to work for an oil company. Due to hiring policies, we had quite a few people moving between countries. We had some interesting times with people coming from Saudi (and elsewhere), who were not "Westernised". The moment when they discovered that their new boss was Jewish was always a moment, for example. Or a woman.
Interestingly, without exception (in my experience), they adjusted quite rapidly.
One thing lockdown stopped was my extravagant work lunches.
Plus lockdown also stopped me from waking up at 5am to catch a 7am train.
So I woke up at 6am and did an hour/90 min on the bike and cross trainer.
I wonder whether the Swiss are looking at the UK's Brexit deal thinking "When Harry Met Sally" style "I'll have what she's having".
Although the Swiss are quasi-Single Market members only, Chexit next?
My shops of choice in Manchester is Selfridges, Hugo Boss, and Paul Smith.
I’ll be stepping into them for the first time in over a year.
To turn to your example, are the Muslim Council in Luton planning to protest outside synagogues and berate the owners of Jewish delis?
No, I thought not.
Presenter tells her that ONS are reporting that the level of COVID in England is staying the same.
The Dr says it’s concerning that the data isn’t reflecting what’s actually happening.
Seriously, why are these people allowed on TV?
People seem to be under the impression that Johnson's specially invited him.
It's dangerous, panic inducing talk from the Zero COVID group like this that will increase anti vax sentiment, and I'm sure that'll do them just fine as it'll be proof to them that we can only lockdown until COVID is eradicated, while the rest of the country just wants to get on.
You should probably apologise to the board for gross racism.
https://www.business-live.co.uk/retail-consumer/frasers-ashley-hugo-boss-buy-20687147
“ Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. “
1) the intentions of some of the organisers
2) the intentions of other of the organisers
3) the intentions of some of those planning to attend
4) the intentions of some fuckwits planning to start something
Which is the complex situation that the police etc find themselves in when banning/not banning demos
One metric is "What is likely to happen?"
Heneghan has been less wrong in this pandemic than these religious zealots.
I'd guess most Jews or Catholics aren't easily identifiable but might avoid these situations anyway, and If you're a priest or an Hasidic Jew it's useful to know these events are happening so you can avoid them.
I’ll assume it’s just sub-IQ on your part rather than deliberate malice.
The Swiss thing is a long standing issue of the Swiss style extremely localised democracy vs integration into a set of fixed laws. Quite simply, unless you removed a fair few chunks of the Swiss constitution, you can't have legally mandated alignment with the EU.
(Christ did I just say that?)
Why are you making the assumption that the Fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, free Palestine guys were Muslims? I have seen no reporting to that effect.
“ Unsafe, no.
Uncomfortable, sure.
Perhaps the Luton Jewish Council should indeed be made uncomfortable about the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians. Perhaps all of us should.‘
But no one on here is putting forward evidence that bad things will happen.
This was originally posted as a kind of sub-Daily Mail comments board “Look what the police are enabling now...” by @isam.
Then others have rushed in to make rather stupid, bad faith arguments.
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1398237965286100993
Please show me that happened please.
All I saw was you bringing up some criminal behaviour from a previous protest and - one assumes - implying it will happen again in Luton.
As it happens, I think it utterly certain that *some* anti-semitic behaviour will occur. The question is the proportion.
Also the response of those organising the march and their stewards.
Compostable coffee pods can be added to the 'oh no they're fucking not list'.
And the missing the bit about Israelis uncomfortable by the Palestinian terrorism inflicted on them?
What is being queried is why you think that Jews in Luton - British citizens - should be made to feel uncomfortable about what the Israeli government does?
What I was trying to say was that the rights of the Jewish community to be not be offended (made uncomfortable) do not trump the right to protest/dissent.
I didn’t. It’s your pathetic invention. Please read what I wrote. Read it and understand it!
As for Israelis, what about them?
If Israelis wish to organise a protest I am all for it.
And it said protest makes Palestianians uncomfortable, I am all for it as well.
In the movie Bob Robert’s, whilst campaigning Bob is shot. The group gathering at the hospital are told it’s an immigrant who shot him - they spy an immigrant walking across the street, run over and kick him to death.
And that’s what you did isn’t it, rushed across the street and kicked the immigrant for the crime other immigrants committed?
People seem to think protest is should operate along the same lines as a WI jam-making competition.
I’m afraid I take the French attitude in these matters.
Bob Roberts made me do it. I kicked the immigrant to death.
What are you talking about, you clown?
https://www.politico.eu/coronavirus-in-europe/
Fortunately there's still a large body of British Jews who are still prepared to speak freely knowing charges of anti-semitism don't wash. The Jews have a proud history of supporting oppressed people, South Africa being a good example. You can be sure the campaign for Palestinian rights in Luton will have a reasonable number of Jewish supporters.
Now they are piling on PHE and its scientists with conspiracy theories about the data - there was a minor Twitter storm at the weekend when one of them suggested that PHE had attempted to bury bad news by realising it during Eurovision.
You know the moment Black Death broke out in Italy the Jewish villages were torched on basis they were responsible for it? It wasn’t actually true, it was politics.
The truth was, Bob hadn’t been shot by an immigrant, it was spin, a rouse created by himself to appear the victim.
Playing the victim card is old as time, but very canny and powerful card of the old political deck. Regicide would not have happened on Charles I if he hadn’t manoeuvred for it himself, to play the victim card on his political opponents.
Continental politics has essential evolved in the direction of compromise. In order to facilitate that compromise you take positions that appear intransigent that are then eventually and inevitably compromised on, or fudged if you prefer the more pejorative term. It will happen with Switzerland, and they will maintain their half in half out position.
Probably be a few minutes for websites to be updated.
Given we're already at 1% of population per day, surging from here would be great news.
No-one has suggested that the protest should be stopped because people might not like it. They have queried why some people should be told to avoid the area because that sounds as if trouble is expected. They have queried why one group should be made to feel that they cannot walk freely around their home town even when a lawful protest is happening. It should be possible in a free society to have both.
And above all they have queried your very clear statement that British citizens who happen to be Jewish should be made to feel uncomfortable about the actions of a foreign state, as if they in particular bear some responsibility for it or should somehow be blamed. That is to my mind a reprehensible view to take.
If that is not your view, good.
If you’ve got something intelligent to say, let’s hear it.
Our latest Westminster voting intention:
CON 44 (+1)
LAB 32 (-2)
GRN 8 (+1)
LD 7 (+2)
SNP 5 (=)
RUK 2 (=)
PC 1 (=)
OTH 1 (-1)
Fieldwork 27th-28th May (changes vs 28th-29th April)
n=1,001
https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/1398239333124128770?s=20
When was the last "Free Kurdistan" protest? Despite the atrocities in Kurdistan being much worse than that in Palestine?
I suppose Turks aren't Jews so who gives a shit about Kurds, eh?