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The case for Labour making an electoral pact – politicalbetting.com

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  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Had a fun day today looking up some ancestry stuff with my Dad.

    He's always thought that his paternal grandparents were Irish, and had moved to England from there. Dad was quite keen on getting an Irish passport if we could prove it.

    He knew his Nan's name, Philomena, but not his grandfather's who had died before Dad was born.

    I managed to find the record of his grandfather John's will, which listed his address and the amount he'd left to Philomena.

    Then found out that John was born in the same English town as my Dad (but his father was probably from Ireland), and Philomena (nee MacDonald - not coincidentally the name that my Dad's Dad used when he changed his name and ran away to start a new family in Birmingham when my Dad was 11) was from Scotland.

    So I'm feeling a bit less Irish and a bit more Scottish than I was when I woke up!

    And quite a long way from an EU passport..

    Genealogy is always fun.
    It really is, though I'd guess a bit more formal and official in the world of old banking families than those of Irish pig farmers?!

    Dad's also sent me a 'history' of his maternal grandmother's family that was typed out by one of her brothers back in 1984, to the best of his memory - and just before he died in Jan 85.

    There's some funny and interesting stuff in his memories of his family, and a couple of tales of men in the military with local press clippings from WW2.

    But the main theme seems to be that all the men were essentially drunks who died early from drinking.

    While I sit here sipping a rather nice Australian Shiraz, I wonder if there might be some sort of warning there..
    One of my cousins has researched my Dad’s family back to the 1540s… I’ve been more interested in my Mum’s side as a result.

    I only learnt a couple of weeks ago, for example, that in the 1900s/1910s (different) family members were the head of Sinn Fein and the head of the Irish/Ulster Unionists*

    * Edward Carson & Edward Martyn
    I'd thought it might be interesting to see if Dad's family had left Ireland around the Irish Civil War time as Dad thought, as we could have found them in the historic Irish census records.

    I haven't yet looked into my Mum's Dad's family, but I believe that he was descended from Orangemen. And quite proud of it..
    One of the problems of genealogy is indeed the ICW - the destruction of the Four Courts. Lots of family records were lost then ...
    The 1901 and 1911 Irish census records seem complete. You can get names, sex, age, address, occupation, literacy, relationship, even illness details about everyone.

    http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

    But nothing after.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,096

    Maffew said:

    Mortimer said:

    So how many of us left unvaccinated still, patiently waiting for their turn?

    Me; 34, so won't be in the next cohort. Should only be a week or so till I can book, though!
    Keep pinging the NHS booking site, it is very common to be able to book several days in advance of any public announcement.

    I think I booked mine 3 days before the government actually announced my age cohort should come forward.
    I plan to start doing this soon (33 years old). Do you happen to know whether the front page (which gives the age limit) changes too, or if you have to go through and enter your details?
    No the front page will still say you need to be older than x until the government make the announcement, but the backend gets updates several days before.

    So, just ignore what it says, put your NHS number in it will then either say no we aren't doing you yet or yes fine where would you like your jab.

    Some might say that is being a bit naughty, but up to you. I didn't feel guilty about doing it, as it isn't like there is a massive shortage of doses and really all you are doing is getting in a couple of days early and befote the stampede of everybody trying to book at the moment Hancock says come on down.
    Thanks for the info!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,096

    Given that over half of the people currently in hospital in Bolton are anti-vaxxers is there any reason why that wouldn't apply to the rest of the country ?

    Dunno. Let's ask the SAGE team who seriously believe that 20,000 people are day will be hospitalised in July.
    We knew the Zero covidiots would try one more heave to get June 21st cancelled.

    If this is the best they have, I'm confident we'll be without legal restrictions on June 22nd.

    Lots of guidance instead, I'm guessing. But it has to be just that; an understanding that some might want to be more cautious, but that others are happy to put their faith in science over voodoo.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,327

    Given that over half of the people currently in hospital in Bolton are anti-vaxxers is there any reason why that wouldn't apply to the rest of the country ?

    Dunno. Let's ask the SAGE team who seriously believe that 20,000 people are day will be hospitalised in July.
    Are we sure that Chris isn't a SAGE modeller? Would explain a lot.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 16
    Mortimer said:

    Maffew said:

    Mortimer said:

    So how many of us left unvaccinated still, patiently waiting for their turn?

    Me; 34, so won't be in the next cohort. Should only be a week or so till I can book, though!
    Keep pinging the NHS booking site, it is very common to be able to book several days in advance of any public announcement.

    I think I booked mine 3 days before the government actually announced my age cohort should come forward.
    I plan to start doing this soon (33 years old). Do you happen to know whether the front page (which gives the age limit) changes too, or if you have to go through and enter your details?
    No the front page will still say you need to be older than x until the government make the announcement, but the backend gets updates several days before.

    So, just ignore what it says, put your NHS number in it will then either say no we aren't doing you yet or yes fine where would you like your jab.

    Some might say that is being a bit naughty, but up to you. I didn't feel guilty about doing it, as it isn't like there is a massive shortage of doses and really all you are doing is getting in a couple of days early and befote the stampede of everybody trying to book at the moment Hancock says come on down.
    Thanks for the info!
    Also you can put in any postcode you like, so if you live equidistant between two population centres, you might find one gives a date sooner than the other. I did that and got a jab within 18hrs, rather than 4-5 days...only problem is I got the old Bill Gates Skynet one, Moderna, so I now hooked in like Borg.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,300
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic, the assumption that a progressive alliance would sweep the board is bollocks.

    The Progresssive Alliance got 52.4% of the vote across the UK at GE 2019.
    Only there was no progressive alliance...
    Just for a bit of fun:

    Progressive Alliance[1] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Lab 32.1%
    LD 11.6%
    SNP 3.9%
    Green 2.7%
    SF 0.6%
    PC 0.5%
    APNI 0.4%
    SDLP 0.4%
    Yorks 0.1%
    Scots Green 0.1%

    TOTAL 52.4%
    [1] Parties deemed to be of the "Left" OR "Centre-left" by Wikipedia.

    Right-wing Alliance[2] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Con 43.6%
    Brexit 2.0%
    DUP 0.8%
    UUP 0.3%
    UKIP 0.1%

    TOTAL 46.8%
    [2] Parties deemed to be of the "Right" OR "Centre-right" by Wikipedia.

    Remember, this just for a bit of fun!
    Though of course the LDs backed the Tories in 2010, so sometimes can be in a right wing alliance too
    Anyone who thinks the whole LD support would go to the Labour Party as part of a "progressive alliance" is certifiable.

    That being said, the LDs will probably benefit from tactical voting in the future. The table above gives their "path to 20 seats"
    The party is down as "Centre to Centre-Left" on Wikipedia (with sources therein)!

    I'm NOT arbitrarily listing them in the Progressive Alliance, you know!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,300
    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic, the assumption that a progressive alliance would sweep the board is bollocks.

    The Progresssive Alliance got 52.4% of the vote across the UK at GE 2019.
    Only there was no progressive alliance...
    Just for a bit of fun:

    Progressive Alliance[1] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Lab 32.1%
    LD 11.6%
    SNP 3.9%
    Green 2.7%
    SF 0.6%
    PC 0.5%
    APNI 0.4%
    SDLP 0.4%
    Yorks 0.1%
    Scots Green 0.1%

    TOTAL 52.4%
    [1] Parties deemed to be of the "Left" OR "Centre-left" by Wikipedia.

    Right-wing Alliance[2] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Con 43.6%
    Brexit 2.0%
    DUP 0.8%
    UUP 0.3%
    UKIP 0.1%

    TOTAL 46.8%
    [2] Parties deemed to be of the "Right" OR "Centre-right" by Wikipedia.

    Remember, this just for a bit of fun!
    Though of course the LDs backed the Tories in 2010, so sometimes can be in a right wing alliance too
    2010 was NINE years prior to GE 2019, HYUFD!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,951

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,630
    Mortimer said:

    Given that over half of the people currently in hospital in Bolton are anti-vaxxers is there any reason why that wouldn't apply to the rest of the country ?

    Dunno. Let's ask the SAGE team who seriously believe that 20,000 people are day will be hospitalised in July.
    We knew the Zero covidiots would try one more heave to get June 21st cancelled.

    If this is the best they have, I'm confident we'll be without legal restrictions on June 22nd.

    Lots of guidance instead, I'm guessing. But it has to be just that; an understanding that some might want to be more cautious, but that others are happy to put their faith in science over voodoo.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/vaccines-appear-prevent-97-per-cent-indian-variant-infections/

    Translation: “we were a bit too successful in scaring you all the last year. Pubs are opening, schools are maskless. It’s all fine really. Apart from for you morons that have turned down the vaccine, but frankly good bloody riddance to you”.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,630
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    What if Andy Neill is Elliot Carver?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,437
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Had a fun day today looking up some ancestry stuff with my Dad.

    He's always thought that his paternal grandparents were Irish, and had moved to England from there. Dad was quite keen on getting an Irish passport if we could prove it.

    He knew his Nan's name, Philomena, but not his grandfather's who had died before Dad was born.

    I managed to find the record of his grandfather John's will, which listed his address and the amount he'd left to Philomena.

    Then found out that John was born in the same English town as my Dad (but his father was probably from Ireland), and Philomena (nee MacDonald - not coincidentally the name that my Dad's Dad used when he changed his name and ran away to start a new family in Birmingham when my Dad was 11) was from Scotland.

    So I'm feeling a bit less Irish and a bit more Scottish than I was when I woke up!

    And quite a long way from an EU passport..

    Genealogy is always fun.
    It really is, though I'd guess a bit more formal and official in the world of old banking families than those of Irish pig farmers?!

    Dad's also sent me a 'history' of his maternal grandmother's family that was typed out by one of her brothers back in 1984, to the best of his memory - and just before he died in Jan 85.

    There's some funny and interesting stuff in his memories of his family, and a couple of tales of men in the military with local press clippings from WW2.

    But the main theme seems to be that all the men were essentially drunks who died early from drinking.

    While I sit here sipping a rather nice Australian Shiraz, I wonder if there might be some sort of warning there..
    One of my cousins has researched my Dad’s family back to the 1540s… I’ve been more interested in my Mum’s side as a result.

    I only learnt a couple of weeks ago, for example, that in the 1900s/1910s (different) family members were the head of Sinn Fein and the head of the Irish/Ulster Unionists*

    * Edward Carson & Edward Martyn
    Similar to yours truly in that you have a foot (at least) in both Hibernian camps. Difference being that MY Irish ancestors were

    a) NOT so ambitious, pushy AND well-connected; and

    b) STRONGLY encouraged to leave Ireland at the earliest opportunity, indeed sooner!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,345
    edited May 16

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic, the assumption that a progressive alliance would sweep the board is bollocks.

    The Progresssive Alliance got 52.4% of the vote across the UK at GE 2019.
    Only there was no progressive alliance...
    Just for a bit of fun:

    Progressive Alliance[1] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Lab 32.1%
    LD 11.6%
    SNP 3.9%
    Green 2.7%
    SF 0.6%
    PC 0.5%
    APNI 0.4%
    SDLP 0.4%
    Yorks 0.1%
    Scots Green 0.1%

    TOTAL 52.4%
    [1] Parties deemed to be of the "Left" OR "Centre-left" by Wikipedia.

    Right-wing Alliance[2] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Con 43.6%
    Brexit 2.0%
    DUP 0.8%
    UUP 0.3%
    UKIP 0.1%

    TOTAL 46.8%
    [2] Parties deemed to be of the "Right" OR "Centre-right" by Wikipedia.

    Remember, this just for a bit of fun!
    Though of course the LDs backed the Tories in 2010, so sometimes can be in a right wing alliance too
    2010 was NINE years prior to GE 2019, HYUFD!
    2015, when the coalition ended, was only four years prior to ge2019.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,951
    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    What if Andy Neill is Elliot Carver?
    Well, it's possible...

  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,366
    edited May 16
    I've found actual footage of a PB dinner party

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxOX4YeEUOc
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,511
    A great piece by @tlg86 - well researched and backed up by evidence.

    I suspect one of the issues with a progressive alliance is that the Lib Dems would have to occupy a place in that coalition which is effective centre to centre right i.e. appealing to Conservative types who are liberal on most social issues and / or pro-EU but fiscally would fear what a left-wing Government would do to their personal wealth as well (in many cases) their childrens' private school education. I don't see how that works over the long-term given the inherent tensions.

    In fact one might argue that a better place for the Lib Dems to be is to be effectively like the FDP in Germany i.e. recognise that you will never gain political predominance in the immediate future and align yourself with the Tories, with an explicit pact where the two parties agree not to stand against each other in seats and where the Tories effectively "gift" the Lib Dems a number of seats in places like Bath and St Albans. That gives the Lib Dems a guaranteed number of seats and it allows the Conservatives to tack more socially conservative and hoover up more of the Red Wall seats.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 43,783
    David Aaronovitch
    @DAaronovitch
    ·
    2h
    After driving through Jewish areas to show their feelings can we expect the angry motorcade to pitch up in Soho to protest about the Uighurs and then Hyde Park to show their feelings about Yemen? No?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,300

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic, the assumption that a progressive alliance would sweep the board is bollocks.

    The Progresssive Alliance got 52.4% of the vote across the UK at GE 2019.
    Only there was no progressive alliance...
    Just for a bit of fun:

    Progressive Alliance[1] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Lab 32.1%
    LD 11.6%
    SNP 3.9%
    Green 2.7%
    SF 0.6%
    PC 0.5%
    APNI 0.4%
    SDLP 0.4%
    Yorks 0.1%
    Scots Green 0.1%

    TOTAL 52.4%
    [1] Parties deemed to be of the "Left" OR "Centre-left" by Wikipedia.

    Right-wing Alliance[2] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Con 43.6%
    Brexit 2.0%
    DUP 0.8%
    UUP 0.3%
    UKIP 0.1%

    TOTAL 46.8%
    [2] Parties deemed to be of the "Right" OR "Centre-right" by Wikipedia.

    Remember, this just for a bit of fun!
    Though of course the LDs backed the Tories in 2010, so sometimes can be in a right wing alliance too
    2010 was NINE years prior to GE 2019, HYUFD!
    2015, when the coalition ended, was only four years prior to ge2019.
    Anyone thinking the LDs are a right-wing party is positively certifiable!

    Ideology
    Liberalism[3]
    Social liberalism[4]
    Pro-Europeanism[5]

    Political position
    Centre[6] to centre-left[7]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,809
    Mortimer said:

    Given that over half of the people currently in hospital in Bolton are anti-vaxxers is there any reason why that wouldn't apply to the rest of the country ?

    Dunno. Let's ask the SAGE team who seriously believe that 20,000 people are day will be hospitalised in July.
    We knew the Zero covidiots would try one more heave to get June 21st cancelled.

    If this is the best they have, I'm confident we'll be without legal restrictions on June 22nd.

    Lots of guidance instead, I'm guessing. But it has to be just that; an understanding that some might want to be more cautious, but that others are happy to put their faith in science over voodoo.
    Somebody made the excellent point that a major flaw with a lot of the modelling is arguably that they assume that all individual behaviours must be controlled by the Government, and that in the real world significant numbers of people won't voluntarily moderate their behaviour for perceived risks. They project outcomes based allegedly on the Government not ceding to their demands for restrictions, but make no allowance whatsoever for individual behaviours. Equally assume that all Government action will be obeyed rigidly, whereas the reality is that a lot of stuff obviously continued under the surface behind closed doors. So they are perhaps able to exaggerate the true impact of lockdowns, but overestimate the impact of the opposite.

    Back in March last year, a lot of pubs and restaurants were crying out for Government action to order them to shut because they feared that they were rapidly losing trade and they needed the Government orders to trigger insurance etc for business interruption.

    I wonder if with hindsight they regret that (even if ultimately they had no control over it and it would have happened anyway).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 14,865
    MrEd said:

    A great piece by @tlg86 - well researched and backed up by evidence.

    I suspect one of the issues with a progressive alliance is that the Lib Dems would have to occupy a place in that coalition which is effective centre to centre right i.e. appealing to Conservative types who are liberal on most social issues and / or pro-EU but fiscally would fear what a left-wing Government would do to their personal wealth as well (in many cases) their childrens' private school education. I don't see how that works over the long-term given the inherent tensions.

    In fact one might argue that a better place for the Lib Dems to be is to be effectively like the FDP in Germany i.e. recognise that you will never gain political predominance in the immediate future and align yourself with the Tories, with an explicit pact where the two parties agree not to stand against each other in seats and where the Tories effectively "gift" the Lib Dems a number of seats in places like Bath and St Albans. That gives the Lib Dems a guaranteed number of seats and it allows the Conservatives to tack more socially conservative and hoover up more of the Red Wall seats.

    That isn't how the FDP are at all though.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,511

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic, the assumption that a progressive alliance would sweep the board is bollocks.

    The Progresssive Alliance got 52.4% of the vote across the UK at GE 2019.
    Only there was no progressive alliance...
    Just for a bit of fun:

    Progressive Alliance[1] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Lab 32.1%
    LD 11.6%
    SNP 3.9%
    Green 2.7%
    SF 0.6%
    PC 0.5%
    APNI 0.4%
    SDLP 0.4%
    Yorks 0.1%
    Scots Green 0.1%

    TOTAL 52.4%
    [1] Parties deemed to be of the "Left" OR "Centre-left" by Wikipedia.

    Right-wing Alliance[2] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Con 43.6%
    Brexit 2.0%
    DUP 0.8%
    UUP 0.3%
    UKIP 0.1%

    TOTAL 46.8%
    [2] Parties deemed to be of the "Right" OR "Centre-right" by Wikipedia.

    Remember, this just for a bit of fun!
    Though of course the LDs backed the Tories in 2010, so sometimes can be in a right wing alliance too
    2010 was NINE years prior to GE 2019, HYUFD!
    2015, when the coalition ended, was only four years prior to ge2019.
    Anyone thinking the LDs are a right-wing party is positively certifiable!

    Ideology
    Liberalism[3]
    Social liberalism[4]
    Pro-Europeanism[5]

    Political position
    Centre[6] to centre-left[7]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)
    But most of their MPs rely on such voters
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,500
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    What if Andy Neill is Elliot Carver?
    Well, it's possible...

    Its not. Elliot Carver is dead and fictional. Sorry to rain on your parade.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,630
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    What if Andy Neill is Elliot Carver?
    Well, it's possible...

    Doesn’t get enough love that entry. The forgotten bond
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186
    Pulpstar said:

    Floater said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9584765/Scared-British-Airways-cabin-crew-failing-flights-India.html

    The airline is still operating seven flights a week to four major cities in India

    WTAF!!!!


    The airline has had to reduce flights to the country since it was red-listed
    but is still currently operating seven flights a week to Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore and Hyderabad.

    The mind truly boggles.
    There will be an interesting conversation to be had if the government tries to backslide on opening up because if the Indian variant - whilst allowing those flights.

    For the record I don't think the government will try to backslide.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,300
    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic, the assumption that a progressive alliance would sweep the board is bollocks.

    The Progresssive Alliance got 52.4% of the vote across the UK at GE 2019.
    Only there was no progressive alliance...
    Just for a bit of fun:

    Progressive Alliance[1] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Lab 32.1%
    LD 11.6%
    SNP 3.9%
    Green 2.7%
    SF 0.6%
    PC 0.5%
    APNI 0.4%
    SDLP 0.4%
    Yorks 0.1%
    Scots Green 0.1%

    TOTAL 52.4%
    [1] Parties deemed to be of the "Left" OR "Centre-left" by Wikipedia.

    Right-wing Alliance[2] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Con 43.6%
    Brexit 2.0%
    DUP 0.8%
    UUP 0.3%
    UKIP 0.1%

    TOTAL 46.8%
    [2] Parties deemed to be of the "Right" OR "Centre-right" by Wikipedia.

    Remember, this just for a bit of fun!
    Though of course the LDs backed the Tories in 2010, so sometimes can be in a right wing alliance too
    2010 was NINE years prior to GE 2019, HYUFD!
    2015, when the coalition ended, was only four years prior to ge2019.
    Anyone thinking the LDs are a right-wing party is positively certifiable!

    Ideology
    Liberalism[3]
    Social liberalism[4]
    Pro-Europeanism[5]

    Political position
    Centre[6] to centre-left[7]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)
    But most of their MPs rely on such voters
    Are you sure?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 26,930

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic, the assumption that a progressive alliance would sweep the board is bollocks.

    The Progresssive Alliance got 52.4% of the vote across the UK at GE 2019.
    Only there was no progressive alliance...
    Just for a bit of fun:

    Progressive Alliance[1] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Lab 32.1%
    LD 11.6%
    SNP 3.9%
    Green 2.7%
    SF 0.6%
    PC 0.5%
    APNI 0.4%
    SDLP 0.4%
    Yorks 0.1%
    Scots Green 0.1%

    TOTAL 52.4%
    [1] Parties deemed to be of the "Left" OR "Centre-left" by Wikipedia.

    Right-wing Alliance[2] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Con 43.6%
    Brexit 2.0%
    DUP 0.8%
    UUP 0.3%
    UKIP 0.1%

    TOTAL 46.8%
    [2] Parties deemed to be of the "Right" OR "Centre-right" by Wikipedia.

    Remember, this just for a bit of fun!
    Though of course the LDs backed the Tories in 2010, so sometimes can be in a right wing alliance too
    2010 was NINE years prior to GE 2019, HYUFD!
    2015, when the coalition ended, was only four years prior to ge2019.
    No way will the LDs be supporting the Tories in government again because:

    1) the way the last Coalition ended.
    2) Brexit

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,630

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    What if Andy Neill is Elliot Carver?
    Well, it's possible...

    Its not. Elliot Carver is dead and fictional. Sorry to rain on your parade.
    A torpedo to the chest is but a flesh wound
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 16
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    Even if they steal away people who are disillusioned by the likes of Sky News, they have very poor ratings, so they are fishing in a very small pond. And there are already YouTubers filling the gaps for longer form interviews and more controversial takes on politics / news and although they do get similar numbers to Sky, they are normally just some random bod with a single camera from their spare room i.e. budget of bugger all.

    Even the more professional outfits with a small studio, its low cost stuff, so making a few £1000 a month from Youtube ad revenue / sponsorship is more than enough for them, but not for a channel signing all these "names".

    There is an upper limit for rolling "news" content and that ceiling isn't very high in the UK.

    I also notice Rupert Murdoch has basically pulled the plug on his new "news" venture.


    Rupert Murdoch has drastically scaled backed plans for a new opinionated television service in the UK, after concluding that it is not financially viable to launch a fully fledged rolling news channel in the style of Fox News.

    Rebekah Brooks, the chief executive of his News UK company, told staff the enormous cost of getting a television news channel on air meant it did not make business sense to push ahead.

    She said the company would instead focus on reaching news audiences via shows on streaming platforms, adding: “While there is consumer demand for alternative news provision, the costs of running a rolling news channel are considerable, and it is our assessment that the payback for our shareholders wouldn’t be sufficient. We need to launch the right products for the digital age.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/apr/27/rupert-murdoch-scales-back-plan-for-news-uk-tv-channel
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 26,930
    Losing 2 finals in 2 days, with another to come?

    It takes a heart of stone...

    https://twitter.com/5liveSport/status/1394033175798685700?s=19
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,630

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    Even if they steal away people who are disillusioned by the likes of Sky News, they have very poor ratings, so they are fishing in a very small pond. And there are already YouTubers filling the gaps for longer form interviews and more controversial takes on politics / news and although they do get similar numbers to Sky, they are normally just some random bod with a single camera from their spare room i.e. budget of bugger all.
    Piers Morgan doing a long form, casual interview with Starmer is quite interesting. 2-3 hours so he trails. I am a firm believer there’s a big market for in depth conversations like this, in fact it’s been proven by Joe Rogan. I suspect before too long it will be a standard requirement for top politicians to do one, in quite a shift in the balance between spin doctors and voters.

    If GB News is smart, it will mop up this market rather than let Morgan become the British Rogan.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,511
    dixiedean said:

    MrEd said:

    A great piece by @tlg86 - well researched and backed up by evidence.

    I suspect one of the issues with a progressive alliance is that the Lib Dems would have to occupy a place in that coalition which is effective centre to centre right i.e. appealing to Conservative types who are liberal on most social issues and / or pro-EU but fiscally would fear what a left-wing Government would do to their personal wealth as well (in many cases) their childrens' private school education. I don't see how that works over the long-term given the inherent tensions.

    In fact one might argue that a better place for the Lib Dems to be is to be effectively like the FDP in Germany i.e. recognise that you will never gain political predominance in the immediate future and align yourself with the Tories, with an explicit pact where the two parties agree not to stand against each other in seats and where the Tories effectively "gift" the Lib Dems a number of seats in places like Bath and St Albans. That gives the Lib Dems a guaranteed number of seats and it allows the Conservatives to tack more socially conservative and hoover up more of the Red Wall seats.

    That isn't how the FDP are at all though.
    Well, traditionally the FDP aligned themselves with the CDU / CSU but also did deals with the SPD. However, my point was more the Lib Dems having to give up the pretence that they will be a governing power and accept their more effective outlet is as kingmakers. Yes, you will cry, what about 2010-5. True, the Lib Dems got shafted but a lot of the reason for that was that there was always an inherent tension between the Tories and Lib Dems as there was no effective pact so each side had an eye to what the other would do. Make it explicit, the two agree not to stand in each others' seats and the Lib Dems could do (relatively) nicely.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 16
    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    Even if they steal away people who are disillusioned by the likes of Sky News, they have very poor ratings, so they are fishing in a very small pond. And there are already YouTubers filling the gaps for longer form interviews and more controversial takes on politics / news and although they do get similar numbers to Sky, they are normally just some random bod with a single camera from their spare room i.e. budget of bugger all.
    Piers Morgan doing a long form, casual interview with Starmer is quite interesting. 2-3 hours so he trails. I am a firm believer there’s a big market for in depth conversations like this, in fact it’s been proven by Joe Rogan. I suspect before too long it will be a standard requirement for top politicians to do one, in quite a shift in the balance between spin doctors and voters.

    If GB News is smart, it will mop up this market rather than let Morgan become the British Rogan.
    Piers Morgan of course is the wrong person for this.

    Joe Rogan I think is a bit of an outlier in the podcast world, he has cultivated this enormous disparate audience, that nobody else has managed to come close to doing. I doubt the likes of Sam Harris for instance get 1/100 of his listeners, despite being far superior quality of insight.

    I think there is a market for long form interviews, but I think the audience is heavily segmented with quite a low ceils, certainly for politics / news focused.

    Joe Rogan as well as being the outlier in popularity, has totally random people on. I can't see Andrew Neil talking one day to somebody convinced they got abducted by aliens, next to some mega pot head and then followed by Bernie Sanders.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    Just seen that one of my Dad's maternal uncles was quite a useful amateur middleweight boxer.

    Dad and I definitely don't share those genes!
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,511

    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic, the assumption that a progressive alliance would sweep the board is bollocks.

    The Progresssive Alliance got 52.4% of the vote across the UK at GE 2019.
    Only there was no progressive alliance...
    Just for a bit of fun:

    Progressive Alliance[1] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Lab 32.1%
    LD 11.6%
    SNP 3.9%
    Green 2.7%
    SF 0.6%
    PC 0.5%
    APNI 0.4%
    SDLP 0.4%
    Yorks 0.1%
    Scots Green 0.1%

    TOTAL 52.4%
    [1] Parties deemed to be of the "Left" OR "Centre-left" by Wikipedia.

    Right-wing Alliance[2] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Con 43.6%
    Brexit 2.0%
    DUP 0.8%
    UUP 0.3%
    UKIP 0.1%

    TOTAL 46.8%
    [2] Parties deemed to be of the "Right" OR "Centre-right" by Wikipedia.

    Remember, this just for a bit of fun!
    Though of course the LDs backed the Tories in 2010, so sometimes can be in a right wing alliance too
    2010 was NINE years prior to GE 2019, HYUFD!
    2015, when the coalition ended, was only four years prior to ge2019.
    Anyone thinking the LDs are a right-wing party is positively certifiable!

    Ideology
    Liberalism[3]
    Social liberalism[4]
    Pro-Europeanism[5]

    Political position
    Centre[6] to centre-left[7]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)
    But most of their MPs rely on such voters
    Are you sure?
    Most Lib Dem seats are in what would traditionally be classified as Tory seats. If the Lib Dems formed an alliance with Labour, how many of those seats do you think they would keep?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,511
    Foxy said:

    Losing 2 finals in 2 days, with another to come?

    It takes a heart of stone...

    https://twitter.com/5liveSport/status/1394033175798685700?s=19

    Hopefully, it will be three in a row
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,437
    dixiedean said:

    MrEd said:

    A great piece by @tlg86 - well researched and backed up by evidence.

    I suspect one of the issues with a progressive alliance is that the Lib Dems would have to occupy a place in that coalition which is effective centre to centre right i.e. appealing to Conservative types who are liberal on most social issues and / or pro-EU but fiscally would fear what a left-wing Government would do to their personal wealth as well (in many cases) their childrens' private school education. I don't see how that works over the long-term given the inherent tensions.

    In fact one might argue that a better place for the Lib Dems to be is to be effectively like the FDP in Germany i.e. recognise that you will never gain political predominance in the immediate future and align yourself with the Tories, with an explicit pact where the two parties agree not to stand against each other in seats and where the Tories effectively "gift" the Lib Dems a number of seats in places like Bath and St Albans. That gives the Lib Dems a guaranteed number of seats and it allows the Conservatives to tack more socially conservative and hoover up more of the Red Wall seats.

    That isn't how the FDP are at all though.
    Free Democrats were indeed in coalition with CDU/CSU 1949-56, 1961-66, 1982-88 and 2008-13. HOWEVER, FDP were in coalition with SDP 1969–82.

    Don't know the details re: constituency seats, but FDP certainly campaigned for list seats.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,630

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    Even if they steal away people who are disillusioned by the likes of Sky News, they have very poor ratings, so they are fishing in a very small pond. And there are already YouTubers filling the gaps for longer form interviews and more controversial takes on politics / news and although they do get similar numbers to Sky, they are normally just some random bod with a single camera from their spare room i.e. budget of bugger all.
    Piers Morgan doing a long form, casual interview with Starmer is quite interesting. 2-3 hours so he trails. I am a firm believer there’s a big market for in depth conversations like this, in fact it’s been proven by Joe Rogan. I suspect before too long it will be a standard requirement for top politicians to do one, in quite a shift in the balance between spin doctors and voters.

    If GB News is smart, it will mop up this market rather than let Morgan become the British Rogan.
    Piers Morgan of course is the wrong person for this.
    Yes because he wants to be the story too much. Rogan has a skill at exuding charm and conviviality that draws guests to reveal more than they want to about themselves, rather than the tiresome British media trait of aggressive questioning looking for a “gotcha” moment.

    Even if Rogan does occasionally overstep the line, mainly by being slightly under prepared (a show a day more or less). Not sure who the best person would be here. Hard to look beyond Joanna Lumley really.
  • MaffewMaffew Posts: 180

    Maffew said:

    Mortimer said:

    So how many of us left unvaccinated still, patiently waiting for their turn?

    Me; 34, so won't be in the next cohort. Should only be a week or so till I can book, though!
    Keep pinging the NHS booking site, it is very common to be able to book several days in advance of any public announcement.

    I think I booked mine 3 days before the government actually announced my age cohort should come forward.
    I plan to start doing this soon (33 years old). Do you happen to know whether the front page (which gives the age limit) changes too, or if you have to go through and enter your details?
    No the front page will still say you need to be older than x until the government make the announcement, but the backend gets updates several days before.

    So, just ignore what it says, put your NHS number in it will then either say no we aren't doing you yet or yes fine where would you like your jab.

    Some might say that is being a bit naughty, but up to you. I didn't feel guilty about doing it, as it isn't like there is a massive shortage of doses and really all you are doing is getting in a couple of days early and befote the stampede of everybody trying to book at the moment Hancock says come on down.
    Cheers, that'll keep me busy in few days' time :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,300
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic, the assumption that a progressive alliance would sweep the board is bollocks.

    The Progresssive Alliance got 52.4% of the vote across the UK at GE 2019.
    Only there was no progressive alliance...
    Just for a bit of fun:

    Progressive Alliance[1] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Lab 32.1%
    LD 11.6%
    SNP 3.9%
    Green 2.7%
    SF 0.6%
    PC 0.5%
    APNI 0.4%
    SDLP 0.4%
    Yorks 0.1%
    Scots Green 0.1%

    TOTAL 52.4%
    [1] Parties deemed to be of the "Left" OR "Centre-left" by Wikipedia.

    Right-wing Alliance[2] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Con 43.6%
    Brexit 2.0%
    DUP 0.8%
    UUP 0.3%
    UKIP 0.1%

    TOTAL 46.8%
    [2] Parties deemed to be of the "Right" OR "Centre-right" by Wikipedia.

    Remember, this just for a bit of fun!
    Though of course the LDs backed the Tories in 2010, so sometimes can be in a right wing alliance too
    2010 was NINE years prior to GE 2019, HYUFD!
    2015, when the coalition ended, was only four years prior to ge2019.
    Anyone thinking the LDs are a right-wing party is positively certifiable!

    Ideology
    Liberalism[3]
    Social liberalism[4]
    Pro-Europeanism[5]

    Political position
    Centre[6] to centre-left[7]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)
    But most of their MPs rely on such voters
    Are you sure?
    Most Lib Dem seats are in what would traditionally be classified as Tory seats. If the Lib Dems formed an alliance with Labour, how many of those seats do you think they would keep?
    How can they be both "LibDem seats" AND "Tory seats"? LibDem seats are LibDem seats, surely!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186
    Just amazing footage of a SpaceX landing

    https://twitter.com/MarcusHouse/status/1393729433844936705
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,500
    edited May 16
    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    What if Andy Neill is Elliot Carver?
    Well, it's possible...

    Its not. Elliot Carver is dead and fictional. Sorry to rain on your parade.
    A torpedo to the chest is but a flesh wound
    Naaah .... Baddies nearly always get their just deserts in bond films. Blofield took a bit more time granted
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,437

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    Even if they steal away people who are disillusioned by the likes of Sky News, they have very poor ratings, so they are fishing in a very small pond. And there are already YouTubers filling the gaps for longer form interviews and more controversial takes on politics / news and although they do get similar numbers to Sky, they are normally just some random bod with a single camera from their spare room i.e. budget of bugger all.
    Piers Morgan doing a long form, casual interview with Starmer is quite interesting. 2-3 hours so he trails. I am a firm believer there’s a big market for in depth conversations like this, in fact it’s been proven by Joe Rogan. I suspect before too long it will be a standard requirement for top politicians to do one, in quite a shift in the balance between spin doctors and voters.

    If GB News is smart, it will mop up this market rather than let Morgan become the British Rogan.
    Piers Morgan of course is the wrong person for this.

    Joe Rogan I think is a bit of an outlier in the podcast world, he has cultivated this enormous disparate audience, that nobody else has managed to come close to doing. I doubt the likes of Sam Harris for instance get 1/100 of his listeners, despite being far superior quality of insight.

    I think there is a market for long form interviews, but I think the audience is heavily segmented and it isn't politics / news focused. Joe Rogan as well as being the outlier, has totally random people on. I can't see Andrew Neil talking one day to somebody convinced they got abducted by aliens, next to some mega pot head and then followed by Bernie Sanders.
    Perhaps Piers Morgan should get HIS guests to eat a bowl of dung beetles. Or set their hair on fire? Literally NOT figuratively!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,426
    Breakthrough Party


    Won't
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,511

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic, the assumption that a progressive alliance would sweep the board is bollocks.

    The Progresssive Alliance got 52.4% of the vote across the UK at GE 2019.
    Only there was no progressive alliance...
    Just for a bit of fun:

    Progressive Alliance[1] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Lab 32.1%
    LD 11.6%
    SNP 3.9%
    Green 2.7%
    SF 0.6%
    PC 0.5%
    APNI 0.4%
    SDLP 0.4%
    Yorks 0.1%
    Scots Green 0.1%

    TOTAL 52.4%
    [1] Parties deemed to be of the "Left" OR "Centre-left" by Wikipedia.

    Right-wing Alliance[2] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Con 43.6%
    Brexit 2.0%
    DUP 0.8%
    UUP 0.3%
    UKIP 0.1%

    TOTAL 46.8%
    [2] Parties deemed to be of the "Right" OR "Centre-right" by Wikipedia.

    Remember, this just for a bit of fun!
    Though of course the LDs backed the Tories in 2010, so sometimes can be in a right wing alliance too
    2010 was NINE years prior to GE 2019, HYUFD!
    2015, when the coalition ended, was only four years prior to ge2019.
    Anyone thinking the LDs are a right-wing party is positively certifiable!

    Ideology
    Liberalism[3]
    Social liberalism[4]
    Pro-Europeanism[5]

    Political position
    Centre[6] to centre-left[7]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)
    But most of their MPs rely on such voters
    Are you sure?
    Most Lib Dem seats are in what would traditionally be classified as Tory seats. If the Lib Dems formed an alliance with Labour, how many of those seats do you think they would keep?
    How can they be both "LibDem seats" AND "Tory seats"? LibDem seats are LibDem seats, surely!
    I didn't say they were :) I said they would traditionally be seen as such seats. Bath, Oxford West, Richmond, Twickenham, Kingston etc are all Tory-LD battles and were traditional Tory seats. The only Lib Dem seat I can think of that would be Labour is Caithness and Sutherland, and even that is more likely to be SNP
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    Floater said:

    Just amazing footage of a SpaceX landing

    https://twitter.com/MarcusHouse/status/1393729433844936705

    Thunderbirds are go......is that how David Miliband gets to work every day?
  • isamisam Posts: 38,137
    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    Even if they steal away people who are disillusioned by the likes of Sky News, they have very poor ratings, so they are fishing in a very small pond. And there are already YouTubers filling the gaps for longer form interviews and more controversial takes on politics / news and although they do get similar numbers to Sky, they are normally just some random bod with a single camera from their spare room i.e. budget of bugger all.
    Piers Morgan doing a long form, casual interview with Starmer is quite interesting. 2-3 hours so he trails. I am a firm believer there’s a big market for in depth conversations like this, in fact it’s been proven by Joe Rogan. I suspect before too long it will be a standard requirement for top politicians to do one, in quite a shift in the balance between spin doctors and voters.

    If GB News is smart, it will mop up this market rather than let Morgan become the British Rogan.
    Worth a go for Sir Keir - Morgan hates the current Tory party so will go easy and give him a chance to shine
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,437
    Chameleon said:

    Given that over half of the people currently in hospital in Bolton are anti-vaxxers is there any reason why that wouldn't apply to the rest of the country ?

    Dunno. Let's ask the SAGE team who seriously believe that 20,000 people are day will be hospitalised in July.
    Are we sure that Chris isn't a SAGE modeller? Would explain a lot.
    Would explain even more, if it turns out he's SAGE's public relations expert!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    isam said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    Even if they steal away people who are disillusioned by the likes of Sky News, they have very poor ratings, so they are fishing in a very small pond. And there are already YouTubers filling the gaps for longer form interviews and more controversial takes on politics / news and although they do get similar numbers to Sky, they are normally just some random bod with a single camera from their spare room i.e. budget of bugger all.
    Piers Morgan doing a long form, casual interview with Starmer is quite interesting. 2-3 hours so he trails. I am a firm believer there’s a big market for in depth conversations like this, in fact it’s been proven by Joe Rogan. I suspect before too long it will be a standard requirement for top politicians to do one, in quite a shift in the balance between spin doctors and voters.

    If GB News is smart, it will mop up this market rather than let Morgan become the British Rogan.
    Worth a go for Sir Keir - Morgan hates the current Tory party so will go easy and give him a chance to shine
    He tried to help Gordo in a similar way with a big soap soft interview, to try and show the family man behind the mask.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 665

    Had a fun day today looking up some ancestry stuff with my Dad.

    He's always thought that his paternal grandparents were Irish, and had moved to England from there. Dad was quite keen on getting an Irish passport if we could prove it.

    He knew his Nan's name, Philomena, but not his grandfather's who had died before Dad was born.

    I managed to find the record of his grandfather John's will, which listed his address and the amount he'd left to Philomena.

    Then found out that John was born in the same English town as my Dad (but his father was probably from Ireland), and Philomena (nee MacDonald - not coincidentally the name that my Dad's Dad used when he changed his name and ran away to start a new family in Birmingham when my Dad was 11) was from Scotland.

    So I'm feeling a bit less Irish and a bit more Scottish than I was when I woke up!

    And quite a long way from an EU passport..

    This might help.
    https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/Tracing-Your-Scottish-Family-History-on-the-Internet-Paperback/p/17717
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186

    Floater said:

    Just amazing footage of a SpaceX landing

    https://twitter.com/MarcusHouse/status/1393729433844936705

    Thunderbirds are go......is that how David Miliband gets to work every day?
    Did you see how they have unpaid full time interns?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,437

    Floater said:

    Just amazing footage of a SpaceX landing

    https://twitter.com/MarcusHouse/status/1393729433844936705

    Thunderbirds are go......is that how David Miliband gets to work every day?
    SpaceX landing? Fake news!

    Clearly this is really footage of Elon Musk lighting up his favorite bong.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Just amazing footage of a SpaceX landing

    https://twitter.com/MarcusHouse/status/1393729433844936705

    Thunderbirds are go......is that how David Miliband gets to work every day?
    Did you see how they have unpaid full time interns?
    Well they can't afford to pay anybody else after giving him $1 million a year....
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,500
    isam said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    Even if they steal away people who are disillusioned by the likes of Sky News, they have very poor ratings, so they are fishing in a very small pond. And there are already YouTubers filling the gaps for longer form interviews and more controversial takes on politics / news and although they do get similar numbers to Sky, they are normally just some random bod with a single camera from their spare room i.e. budget of bugger all.
    Piers Morgan doing a long form, casual interview with Starmer is quite interesting. 2-3 hours so he trails. I am a firm believer there’s a big market for in depth conversations like this, in fact it’s been proven by Joe Rogan. I suspect before too long it will be a standard requirement for top politicians to do one, in quite a shift in the balance between spin doctors and voters.

    If GB News is smart, it will mop up this market rather than let Morgan become the British Rogan.
    Worth a go for Sir Keir - Morgan hates the current Tory party so will go easy and give him a chance to shine
    I will give GB news a go. I am.into Times radio atm. No ads good journos. Anything but the BBC.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,137
    edited May 16

    isam said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    Even if they steal away people who are disillusioned by the likes of Sky News, they have very poor ratings, so they are fishing in a very small pond. And there are already YouTubers filling the gaps for longer form interviews and more controversial takes on politics / news and although they do get similar numbers to Sky, they are normally just some random bod with a single camera from their spare room i.e. budget of bugger all.
    Piers Morgan doing a long form, casual interview with Starmer is quite interesting. 2-3 hours so he trails. I am a firm believer there’s a big market for in depth conversations like this, in fact it’s been proven by Joe Rogan. I suspect before too long it will be a standard requirement for top politicians to do one, in quite a shift in the balance between spin doctors and voters.

    If GB News is smart, it will mop up this market rather than let Morgan become the British Rogan.
    Worth a go for Sir Keir - Morgan hates the current Tory party so will go easy and give him a chance to shine
    He tried to help Gordo in a similar way with a big soap soft interview, to try and show the family man behind the mask.
    Didn’t do GB much good.

    This seems an incredibly harsh thing to write, by Michael White of The Guardian in his review of Piers vs Gordon. Actually made me feel quite angry

    “Was it a cynical U-turn by a man who once decried personalised politics and Blairish exploitation of family? Yes, shouted an army of cynical pundits and bloggers. David Cameron clearly thought so too, because he let it be known he would not be giving a similar interview. But there the Tory leader was on Scottish TV at the weekend welling up over the loss of his own son, Ivan. Voters who complain that politicians all sound the same nowadays sometimes have a point.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/feb/15/gordon-brown-piers-morgan-interview
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,500

    Floater said:

    Just amazing footage of a SpaceX landing

    https://twitter.com/MarcusHouse/status/1393729433844936705

    Thunderbirds are go......is that how David Miliband gets to work every day?
    SpaceX landing? Fake news!

    Clearly this is really footage of Elon Musk lighting up his favorite bong.
    You guys so off beam. Thunderbirds are only used in disasters.. so since 1979 that means IDS Kinnock EdM Brown Corbyn Starmer.. Have I missed anyone?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,437
    "Thunderbirds Are Go" fun factoid - pilots in the TBird family were given first names of US astronauts.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,630
    isam said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    Even if they steal away people who are disillusioned by the likes of Sky News, they have very poor ratings, so they are fishing in a very small pond. And there are already YouTubers filling the gaps for longer form interviews and more controversial takes on politics / news and although they do get similar numbers to Sky, they are normally just some random bod with a single camera from their spare room i.e. budget of bugger all.
    Piers Morgan doing a long form, casual interview with Starmer is quite interesting. 2-3 hours so he trails. I am a firm believer there’s a big market for in depth conversations like this, in fact it’s been proven by Joe Rogan. I suspect before too long it will be a standard requirement for top politicians to do one, in quite a shift in the balance between spin doctors and voters.

    If GB News is smart, it will mop up this market rather than let Morgan become the British Rogan.
    Worth a go for Sir Keir - Morgan hates the current Tory party so will go easy and give him a chance to shine
    The right strategy if he wants more guests.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,437
    edited May 16

    Floater said:

    Just amazing footage of a SpaceX landing

    https://twitter.com/MarcusHouse/status/1393729433844936705

    Thunderbirds are go......is that how David Miliband gets to work every day?
    SpaceX landing? Fake news!

    Clearly this is really footage of Elon Musk lighting up his favorite bong.
    You guys so off beam. Thunderbirds are only used in disasters.. so since 1979 that means IDS Kinnock EdM Brown Corbyn Starmer.. Have I missed anyone?
    Are you trying to make us believe, that Lady Penelope was NOT a Tory? Or Parker??

    EDIT - am pretty well sure that Lady P was a 6th cousin of Charles 3 times removed. So he should know for sure!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 14,865
    MrEd said:

    dixiedean said:

    MrEd said:

    A great piece by @tlg86 - well researched and backed up by evidence.

    I suspect one of the issues with a progressive alliance is that the Lib Dems would have to occupy a place in that coalition which is effective centre to centre right i.e. appealing to Conservative types who are liberal on most social issues and / or pro-EU but fiscally would fear what a left-wing Government would do to their personal wealth as well (in many cases) their childrens' private school education. I don't see how that works over the long-term given the inherent tensions.

    In fact one might argue that a better place for the Lib Dems to be is to be effectively like the FDP in Germany i.e. recognise that you will never gain political predominance in the immediate future and align yourself with the Tories, with an explicit pact where the two parties agree not to stand against each other in seats and where the Tories effectively "gift" the Lib Dems a number of seats in places like Bath and St Albans. That gives the Lib Dems a guaranteed number of seats and it allows the Conservatives to tack more socially conservative and hoover up more of the Red Wall seats.

    That isn't how the FDP are at all though.
    Well, traditionally the FDP aligned themselves with the CDU / CSU but also did deals with the SPD. However, my point was more the Lib Dems having to give up the pretence that they will be a governing power and accept their more effective outlet is as kingmakers. Yes, you will cry, what about 2010-5. True, the Lib Dems got shafted but a lot of the reason for that was that there was always an inherent tension between the Tories and Lib Dems as there was no effective pact so each side had an eye to what the other would do. Make it explicit, the two agree not to stand in each others' seats and the Lib Dems could do (relatively) nicely.
    The reason they got shafted was they were desperate to get in Ministerial limos.
    And the numbers weren't there for them to do it with Labour.
    So they rolled over and got their tummies tickled for 5 years before being put down.
  • MrEd said:

    dixiedean said:

    MrEd said:

    A great piece by @tlg86 - well researched and backed up by evidence.

    I suspect one of the issues with a progressive alliance is that the Lib Dems would have to occupy a place in that coalition which is effective centre to centre right i.e. appealing to Conservative types who are liberal on most social issues and / or pro-EU but fiscally would fear what a left-wing Government would do to their personal wealth as well (in many cases) their childrens' private school education. I don't see how that works over the long-term given the inherent tensions.

    In fact one might argue that a better place for the Lib Dems to be is to be effectively like the FDP in Germany i.e. recognise that you will never gain political predominance in the immediate future and align yourself with the Tories, with an explicit pact where the two parties agree not to stand against each other in seats and where the Tories effectively "gift" the Lib Dems a number of seats in places like Bath and St Albans. That gives the Lib Dems a guaranteed number of seats and it allows the Conservatives to tack more socially conservative and hoover up more of the Red Wall seats.

    That isn't how the FDP are at all though.
    Well, traditionally the FDP aligned themselves with the CDU / CSU but also did deals with the SPD. However, my point was more the Lib Dems having to give up the pretence that they will be a governing power and accept their more effective outlet is as kingmakers. Yes, you will cry, what about 2010-5. True, the Lib Dems got shafted but a lot of the reason for that was that there was always an inherent tension between the Tories and Lib Dems as there was no effective pact so each side had an eye to what the other would do. Make it explicit, the two agree not to stand in each others' seats and the Lib Dems could do (relatively) nicely.
    The tories would never countenance such a pact. They gain far more from LDs acting as a drag anchor to the Labour Party.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    isam said:

    isam said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    Even if they steal away people who are disillusioned by the likes of Sky News, they have very poor ratings, so they are fishing in a very small pond. And there are already YouTubers filling the gaps for longer form interviews and more controversial takes on politics / news and although they do get similar numbers to Sky, they are normally just some random bod with a single camera from their spare room i.e. budget of bugger all.
    Piers Morgan doing a long form, casual interview with Starmer is quite interesting. 2-3 hours so he trails. I am a firm believer there’s a big market for in depth conversations like this, in fact it’s been proven by Joe Rogan. I suspect before too long it will be a standard requirement for top politicians to do one, in quite a shift in the balance between spin doctors and voters.

    If GB News is smart, it will mop up this market rather than let Morgan become the British Rogan.
    Worth a go for Sir Keir - Morgan hates the current Tory party so will go easy and give him a chance to shine
    He tried to help Gordo in a similar way with a big soap soft interview, to try and show the family man behind the mask.
    Didn’t do GB much good.

    This seems an incredibly harsh thing to write, by Michael White of The Guardian in his review of Piers vs Gordon. Actually made me feel quite angry

    “Was it a cynical U-turn by a man who once decried personalised politics and Blairish exploitation of family? Yes, shouted an army of cynical pundits and bloggers. David Cameron clearly thought so too, because he let it be known he would not be giving a similar interview. But there the Tory leader was on Scottish TV at the weekend welling up over the loss of his own son, Ivan. Voters who complain that politicians all sound the same nowadays sometimes have a point.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/feb/15/gordon-brown-piers-morgan-interview
    Brown's weird smiling to apologise for expenses scandal video has to be the worst foray into social media by any politician, let alone a PM, of all social media time.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,437
    Hot POTUS Prospect AND Punters Friend?

    Politico.com - ‘Feeding frenzy’: Florida’s big push to remake gambling
    Gov. Ron DeSantis and the state Legislature are making a billion-dollar bet that they can finally end the state’s decade-long battle over gaming.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/16/florida-legalize-gambling-desantis-488442

    TALLAHASSEE — Gov. Ron DeSantis and the GOP-controlled Florida Legislature could be just days away from approving a multibillion-dollar deal designed to reshape gambling in the tourist mecca. Just don’t expect everyone to be happy about it.

    If state lawmakers sign off on a sweeping package of gaming bills during a special session that begins Monday, it will bring sports betting to the nation’s third largest state for the first time and expand casino-style games at tribal facilities. Politically, it will be a signature victory for DeSantis, a Republican who will accomplish something that former Gov. Rick Scott couldn’t pull off. DeSantis had been personally involved in the negotiations to expand gaming in the state, in no small part because it will guarantee at least $2.5 billion will flow into Florida’s coffers over the next five years.

    That victory could be short lived as opponents are already preparing to drag the state into court . . .

    Before the courtroom drama even starts, however, the governor and top Republicans this week must withstand a flurry of behind-the-scenes lobbying, including an effort by a major fantasy sports company, DraftKings, to kill the deal outright. State legislators are also worried that they could open the door to future casinos, including one at former President Donald Trump’s resort near Miami. . . .

    Gambling is technically illegal in Florida. But it’s been accompanied by a wink-wink acceptance over the years that has led to an array of arcane laws, loopholes and carve-outs. Dog tracks and horse tracks stretch back decades. The state added its own lottery in the ‘80s, and nearly 20 years ago gambling interests were able to add slot machines to existing tracks and gambling operations in two South Florida counties.

    The latest deal — which would last 30 years — would mark a significant win for the Seminole Tribe of Florida, which operates and owns multiple casinos in the state, including a Hard Rock Hotel & Casino. The tribe would be put in control of sports betting, which would be allowed at both tribal casinos as well as through a mobile phone app. Under the deal, the Seminoles would build three new casinos in Hollywood, Fla. — the site of a Hard Rock Casino now — and add Las Vegas-style table games like craps and roulette. The Tribe would also control sports betting at existing horse tracks and former dog racing facilities. . . .
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,951
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic, the assumption that a progressive alliance would sweep the board is bollocks.

    The Progresssive Alliance got 52.4% of the vote across the UK at GE 2019.
    Only there was no progressive alliance...
    Just for a bit of fun:

    Progressive Alliance[1] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Lab 32.1%
    LD 11.6%
    SNP 3.9%
    Green 2.7%
    SF 0.6%
    PC 0.5%
    APNI 0.4%
    SDLP 0.4%
    Yorks 0.1%
    Scots Green 0.1%

    TOTAL 52.4%
    [1] Parties deemed to be of the "Left" OR "Centre-left" by Wikipedia.

    Right-wing Alliance[2] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Con 43.6%
    Brexit 2.0%
    DUP 0.8%
    UUP 0.3%
    UKIP 0.1%

    TOTAL 46.8%
    [2] Parties deemed to be of the "Right" OR "Centre-right" by Wikipedia.

    Remember, this just for a bit of fun!
    Though of course the LDs backed the Tories in 2010, so sometimes can be in a right wing alliance too
    2010 was NINE years prior to GE 2019, HYUFD!
    2015, when the coalition ended, was only four years prior to ge2019.
    Anyone thinking the LDs are a right-wing party is positively certifiable!

    Ideology
    Liberalism[3]
    Social liberalism[4]
    Pro-Europeanism[5]

    Political position
    Centre[6] to centre-left[7]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)
    But most of their MPs rely on such voters
    Are you sure?
    Most Lib Dem seats are in what would traditionally be classified as Tory seats. If the Lib Dems formed an alliance with Labour, how many of those seats do you think they would keep?
    How can they be both "LibDem seats" AND "Tory seats"? LibDem seats are LibDem seats, surely!
    I didn't say they were :) I said they would traditionally be seen as such seats. Bath, Oxford West, Richmond, Twickenham, Kingston etc are all Tory-LD battles and were traditional Tory seats. The only Lib Dem seat I can think of that would be Labour is Caithness and Sutherland, and even that is more likely to be SNP
    Caithness & Sutherland (& Easter Ross) is one of the most consistently LibDem/Alliance seats in the UK. Since 1983, there was only a single election (2015 when the SNP won) when it didn't return one of the Yellow Peril.

    It's also had every shade of second placed party: Conservatives three time, Labour four times, and the SNP once.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    Keir Starmer has said Labour will have a completely new blueprint for power not based on previous manifestos, as he told activists he would spend the summer making extended visits to places the party must win.

    The Labour leader told a conference hosted by the centre-left thinktank Progressive Britain on Sunday that the party’s policy review would not take previous manifestos as its starting point, despite the close attachment of many members to the radical manifestos drawn up under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/16/keir-starmer-vows-all-new-labour-manifesto-and-economic-offer
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,477
    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic, the assumption that a progressive alliance would sweep the board is bollocks.

    The Progresssive Alliance got 52.4% of the vote across the UK at GE 2019.
    Only there was no progressive alliance...
    Just for a bit of fun:

    Progressive Alliance[1] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Lab 32.1%
    LD 11.6%
    SNP 3.9%
    Green 2.7%
    SF 0.6%
    PC 0.5%
    APNI 0.4%
    SDLP 0.4%
    Yorks 0.1%
    Scots Green 0.1%

    TOTAL 52.4%
    [1] Parties deemed to be of the "Left" OR "Centre-left" by Wikipedia.

    Right-wing Alliance[2] vote-share at GE 2019:

    Con 43.6%
    Brexit 2.0%
    DUP 0.8%
    UUP 0.3%
    UKIP 0.1%

    TOTAL 46.8%
    [2] Parties deemed to be of the "Right" OR "Centre-right" by Wikipedia.

    Remember, this just for a bit of fun!
    Though of course the LDs backed the Tories in 2010, so sometimes can be in a right wing alliance too
    2010 was NINE years prior to GE 2019, HYUFD!
    2015, when the coalition ended, was only four years prior to ge2019.
    Anyone thinking the LDs are a right-wing party is positively certifiable!

    Ideology
    Liberalism[3]
    Social liberalism[4]
    Pro-Europeanism[5]

    Political position
    Centre[6] to centre-left[7]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)
    But most of their MPs rely on such voters
    They are more likely to benefit from centre/centre right Tories who can't stomach some of the Tory excesses. I would suspect that the Tory party is as broad a church as the Labour Party.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,933

    Keir Starmer has said Labour will have a completely new blueprint for power not based on previous manifestos, as he told activists he would spend the summer making extended visits to places the party must win.

    The Labour leader told a conference hosted by the centre-left thinktank Progressive Britain on Sunday that the party’s policy review would not take previous manifestos as its starting point, despite the close attachment of many members to the radical manifestos drawn up under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/16/keir-starmer-vows-all-new-labour-manifesto-and-economic-offer

    I'm not sure what that statement even means. Odds are good a lot of what ends up in there will have been in previous manifestoes - plenty of good stuff in there I'm sure - so is this just about telling 'the left' not to think the personnel involved are rehabilitated?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,933
    Floater said:

    Just amazing footage of a SpaceX landing

    https://twitter.com/MarcusHouse/status/1393729433844936705

    As a layman it seems like rocket technology went absolutely nowhere for decades until a couple of superrich nerds got into some power and got to play with their toys. Whatever one thinks about them personally, their companies' actions or about individuals having such disgusting amounts of wealth, I'd like to be hopeful that it has led to good in some areas at least, and that that will be worth it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,484
    "Ignore lockdown easing to curb Indian Covid variant, health experts urge

    Leading specialists call on the public to avoid socialising indoors to prevent a third wave of the disease"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/16/ignore-lockdown-easing-to-curb-indian-covid-variant-health-experts-urge
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 20,686
    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 16,628
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    It’s good that they are ramping up vaccines, but the mind boggles what they were waiting for.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,137
    kle4 said:

    Keir Starmer has said Labour will have a completely new blueprint for power not based on previous manifestos, as he told activists he would spend the summer making extended visits to places the party must win.

    The Labour leader told a conference hosted by the centre-left thinktank Progressive Britain on Sunday that the party’s policy review would not take previous manifestos as its starting point, despite the close attachment of many members to the radical manifestos drawn up under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/16/keir-starmer-vows-all-new-labour-manifesto-and-economic-offer

    I'm not sure what that statement even means. Odds are good a lot of what ends up in there will have been in previous manifestoes - plenty of good stuff in there I'm sure - so is this just about telling 'the left' not to think the personnel involved are rehabilitated?
    I’ve a pretty clear idea of what Mandelson means though, and it’s not “we won’t be rehashing New Labour”
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 16
    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    It’s good that they are ramping up vaccines, but the mind boggles what they were waiting for.
    Nobody has been waiting. The media claims of "stockpiling" was shot down and the reliable Hugo bloke from the i reported 2 weeks ago the big deliveries were coming in the middle of this month i.e. now, which would allow for a significant expansion of daily doses.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,048
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    I have the utmost sympathy for your daughter and her colleagues, but I believe she is wrong. We are seeing the last gasp of the zero Covid crew. There is immense pressure on the government to stick to the plan, and I don’t see the latest scare affecting that. Cases are just not taking off in the way that would imply a problem. Someone earlier linked the news out of India that focussed for days (weeks?) on cremations, bodies in the street etc to the fear-mongering in the U.K. They were right. We are in a fantastic position in relation to vaccination levels, plus recovered Covid cases among the young. We will be like Israel - cases will fall as we open up. Keep the faith in science and shut out the doom sayers.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 10,507
    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    It’s good that they are ramping up vaccines, but the mind boggles what they were waiting for.
    Have they been waiting? I’m known on PB as being a hard-to-please vaccine hawk, yet even I’ve been surprised on the upside by how many we have done in the last few weeks. We have wiped out lots of second dose debt and are now in a position to blitz the young.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    It’s good that they are ramping up vaccines, but the mind boggles what they were waiting for.
    Have they been waiting? I’m known on PB as being a hard-to-please vaccine hawk, yet even I’ve been surprised on the upside by how many we have done in the last few weeks. We have wiped out lots of second dose debt and are now in a position to blitz the young.
    There has been no evidence through out this process anybody is waiting around or any real wastage....its organized chaos where generally everybody uses up all they get as fast as possible.
  • MaffewMaffew Posts: 180
    Andy_JS said:

    "Ignore lockdown easing to curb Indian Covid variant, health experts urge

    Leading specialists call on the public to avoid socialising indoors to prevent a third wave of the disease"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/16/ignore-lockdown-easing-to-curb-indian-covid-variant-health-experts-urge

    In the last couple of weeks most of the people I know have been shall we say... anticipating lockdown easing with the way they've been behaving.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 10,507

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    It’s good that they are ramping up vaccines, but the mind boggles what they were waiting for.
    Have they been waiting? I’m known on PB as being a hard-to-please vaccine hawk, yet even I’ve been surprised on the upside by how many we have done in the last few weeks. We have wiped out lots of second dose debt and are now in a position to blitz the young.
    There has been no evidence through out this process anybody is waiting around or any real wastage....its organized chaos where generally everybody uses up all they get as fast as possible.
    I agree actually. I think I’ve been overly anxious in the past. So far, so good.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    It’s good that they are ramping up vaccines, but the mind boggles what they were waiting for.
    Have they been waiting? I’m known on PB as being a hard-to-please vaccine hawk, yet even I’ve been surprised on the upside by how many we have done in the last few weeks. We have wiped out lots of second dose debt and are now in a position to blitz the young.
    There has been no evidence through out this process anybody is waiting around or any real wastage....its organized chaos where generally everybody uses up all they get as fast as possible.
    It is an outstanding national success story.

    I'm a soppy old git but when I took my wife for her second jab yesterday I personally thanked every member of the team I saw.

    I can be critical of the NHS at times, and this last lockdown has impacted one of my son's treatments directly - but hats off to them over this.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,159
    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    It’s good that they are ramping up vaccines, but the mind boggles what they were waiting for.
    Supply. Plain and simple, we didn't have continuous supply of Pfizer guaranteed until about a month ago. The new 60m deal has allowed this boost to the current programme. That plus Moderna ramping up to about double their initial rate of delivery.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    It’s good that they are ramping up vaccines, but the mind boggles what they were waiting for.
    Have they been waiting? I’m known on PB as being a hard-to-please vaccine hawk, yet even I’ve been surprised on the upside by how many we have done in the last few weeks. We have wiped out lots of second dose debt and are now in a position to blitz the young.
    There has been no evidence through out this process anybody is waiting around or any real wastage....its organized chaos where generally everybody uses up all they get as fast as possible.
    It is an outstanding national success story.

    I'm a soppy old git but when I took my wife for her second jab yesterday I personally thanked every member of the team I saw.

    I can be critical of the NHS at times, and this last lockdown has impacted one of my son's treatments directly - but hats off to them over this.
    I am not a massively emotional type, but I certainly felt quite a special emotional feeling when I got jabbed....but thar might be because I am now plugged into SkyNet and they are controlling what they want me to think and feel.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186
    Jesus fecking Christ
    https://twitter.com/EliKohn3/status/1393744090844512263

    Pro Palestine protestors beat an elderly Jewish man in Canada. They also sexually assaulted a Jewish girl
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,516
    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    It’s good that they are ramping up vaccines, but the mind boggles what they were waiting for.
    Have they been waiting? I’m known on PB as being a hard-to-please vaccine hawk, yet even I’ve been surprised on the upside by how many we have done in the last few weeks. We have wiped out lots of second dose debt and are now in a position to blitz the young.
    There hasn't been any waiting, we've got a huge new chunk of Pfizer supply inbound over the next month, that plus an increase in the Moderna deliveries earlier than expected as Robert suggested would happen. In the last 7 days we've done 1.2m first doses, in the next 7 days that should be around 1.6-1.8m first doses and the week after I've heard of figures upwards of 2.5m and heading into June I'm told a weekly rate of between 2.5m and 3m first doses can be sustained until the programme finishes. Our remaining number of first doses has gone down from 20m at the beginning of April to 14m now. If you count a conservative 4m for the rest of May, that leaves just 10m to do in June before being able to really ramp up second doses to 20m+ in July to get the rest of those done rapidly.
    When do the Johnson and Johnson one-shot jabs arrive?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,159

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    It’s good that they are ramping up vaccines, but the mind boggles what they were waiting for.
    Have they been waiting? I’m known on PB as being a hard-to-please vaccine hawk, yet even I’ve been surprised on the upside by how many we have done in the last few weeks. We have wiped out lots of second dose debt and are now in a position to blitz the young.
    There hasn't been any waiting, we've got a huge new chunk of Pfizer supply inbound over the next month, that plus an increase in the Moderna deliveries earlier than expected as Robert suggested would happen. In the last 7 days we've done 1.2m first doses, in the next 7 days that should be around 1.6-1.8m first doses and the week after I've heard of figures upwards of 2.5m and heading into June I'm told a weekly rate of between 2.5m and 3m first doses can be sustained until the programme finishes. Our remaining number of first doses has gone down from 20m at the beginning of April to 14m now. If you count a conservative 4m for the rest of May, that leaves just 10m to do in June before being able to really ramp up second doses to 20m+ in July to get the rest of those done rapidly.
    When do the Johnson and Johnson one-shot jabs arrive?
    July/August, but they're probably not going to be widely used as they have the same issue as AZ in the young. It will be for vaccine refusers to get them done in a single jab rather than relying on them to come back for their second dose of Pfizer or AZ.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 700

    isam said:

    isam said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/andrew-marr-hints-bbc-exit-impartiality-frustrations/

    Andrew Marr hints at BBC exit over impartiality frustrations

    The presenter warned he may soon find it 'very, very hard' to carry on being neutral on political issues


    I’m sure the £360,000 a year goes a long way to softening the frustration.

    I don't understand why people in pretty much any job would find it hard to be politically neutral, professionally speaking. Even teachers or nurses complaining about the government is pretty easy to make non-partisan, since the core complaints seem to be the same whoever is in power.

    I particularly don't understand someone working as a BBC broadcaster finding it frustrating - if you'd be in the business for more than a few years I'd think you'd know if you could stomach buttoning your lip or not.
    I am sure they can find somebody far better for a lot less money....
    GB news is rumoured to start broadcasting on the 31st May

    That should be an interesting launch
    It will be a damp squib, because overall news channel viewing is already in decline. It's also a shitty business: Newsmax and One America News are loss making businesses.
    Even if they steal away people who are disillusioned by the likes of Sky News, they have very poor ratings, so they are fishing in a very small pond. And there are already YouTubers filling the gaps for longer form interviews and more controversial takes on politics / news and although they do get similar numbers to Sky, they are normally just some random bod with a single camera from their spare room i.e. budget of bugger all.
    Piers Morgan doing a long form, casual interview with Starmer is quite interesting. 2-3 hours so he trails. I am a firm believer there’s a big market for in depth conversations like this, in fact it’s been proven by Joe Rogan. I suspect before too long it will be a standard requirement for top politicians to do one, in quite a shift in the balance between spin doctors and voters.

    If GB News is smart, it will mop up this market rather than let Morgan become the British Rogan.
    Worth a go for Sir Keir - Morgan hates the current Tory party so will go easy and give him a chance to shine
    He tried to help Gordo in a similar way with a big soap soft interview, to try and show the family man behind the mask.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/feb/15/gordon-brown-piers-morgan-interview
    Brown's weird smiling to apologise for expenses scandal video has to be the worst foray into social media by any politician, let alone a PM, of all social media time.
    Brown was PM though too - so it was both unnecessary and smacked of a last throw of the dice by a man out of ideas. As leader of the opposition you face a different problem - getting noticed at all for positive reasons, especially with conferences now so much lesser events when they do happen. You can announce policies but can be pinched, hostages to fortune or provide clutter, or fall flat. As PM you don't have to do any of that. What you say and do is news regardless. So it makes much more sense to do this kind of interview that's an event in itself and a way of introducing yourself beyond "boring bloke who moans about the government".
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,437

    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    It’s good that they are ramping up vaccines, but the mind boggles what they were waiting for.
    Have they been waiting? I’m known on PB as being a hard-to-please vaccine hawk, yet even I’ve been surprised on the upside by how many we have done in the last few weeks. We have wiped out lots of second dose debt and are now in a position to blitz the young.
    There has been no evidence through out this process anybody is waiting around or any real wastage....its organized chaos where generally everybody uses up all they get as fast as possible.
    It is an outstanding national success story.

    I'm a soppy old git but when I took my wife for her second jab yesterday I personally thanked every member of the team I saw.

    I can be critical of the NHS at times, and this last lockdown has impacted one of my son's treatments directly - but hats off to them over this.
    I am not a massively emotional type, but I certainly felt quite a special emotional feeling when I got jabbed....but thar might be because I am now plugged into SkyNet and they are controlling what they want me to think and feel.
    Actually it's the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation that has got it's chip now firmly imbedded within you.

    Thus any (unusual) cognitive dissonance you are currently experiencing, are the lawyers fighting over the divorce. FYI, turns out there was NO pre-nup. AND the Great State of WA is a community property state. Hence, she's entitled to 50% of . . . you do the math . . .
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 20,686
    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/gunnerpunner/status/1393920559243829248

    Horrifying stuff. Quadruply worse because it's on Finchley road, one of the main places of residence for British Jews

    The anti-semitism is vile and horrifying and already commented on. Less noticed and less commented on by politicians is the threat of rape against women. Jewish women in this instance. But noticeable that sexual violence against women is chosen as the means of revenge. The despicable combination of hatred of a minority & threats of violence against women. Remember what women were protesting about last month.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 538
    kle4 said:

    Keir Starmer has said Labour will have a completely new blueprint for power not based on previous manifestos, as he told activists he would spend the summer making extended visits to places the party must win.

    The Labour leader told a conference hosted by the centre-left thinktank Progressive Britain on Sunday that the party’s policy review would not take previous manifestos as its starting point, despite the close attachment of many members to the radical manifestos drawn up under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/16/keir-starmer-vows-all-new-labour-manifesto-and-economic-offer

    I'm not sure what that statement even means. Odds are good a lot of what ends up in there will have been in previous manifestoes - plenty of good stuff in there I'm sure - so is this just about telling 'the left' not to think the personnel involved are rehabilitated?
    Isn't this more a play for time on Starmers part than anything else? He's currently a policy vacuum, this is a play for it to continue for a bit longer. Probably he knows if he ever actually comes up with some policies, the party will fight like rats in a sack over them.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 63,037

    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    It’s good that they are ramping up vaccines, but the mind boggles what they were waiting for.
    Have they been waiting? I’m known on PB as being a hard-to-please vaccine hawk, yet even I’ve been surprised on the upside by how many we have done in the last few weeks. We have wiped out lots of second dose debt and are now in a position to blitz the young.
    There has been no evidence through out this process anybody is waiting around or any real wastage....its organized chaos where generally everybody uses up all they get as fast as possible.
    It is an outstanding national success story.

    I'm a soppy old git but when I took my wife for her second jab yesterday I personally thanked every member of the team I saw.

    I can be critical of the NHS at times, and this last lockdown has impacted one of my son's treatments directly - but hats off to them over this.
    I am not a massively emotional type, but I certainly felt quite a special emotional feeling when I got jabbed....but thar might be because I am now plugged into SkyNet and they are controlling what they want me to think and feel.
    Actually it's the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation that has got it's chip now firmly imbedded within you.

    Thus any (unusual) cognitive dissonance you are currently experiencing, are the lawyers fighting over the divorce. FYI, turns out there was NO pre-nup. AND the Great State of WA is a community property state. Hence, she's entitled to 50% of . . . you do the math . . .
    Melinda wasn't impressed with the chip being embedded, that's why they're getting a divorce.

    I know its true, because I just made that up.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,437
    Re: continued lockdown, as summer approaches and the COVID crisis is well past a year old for most in the UK - and the US - it's VERY clear that the mass of Brits - and Americans - is MORE than ready to enter the Brave New Post-Pandemic World.

    As Trotsky said about the soldiers Russian Army after the February Revolution, the Great British Public & it's American Cousin are voting with their feet.

    Something that politicos on both sides of the Atlantic - and the Pacific - are VERY aware of, regardless of the concerns (well-placed or not) of the "scientific" experts (or scientific "experts" if you prefer).

    For example, a couple weeks ago it was widely predicted that Gov. Jay Inslee (D-WA) would rollback King County (Seattle & burbs) from Phase 3 to Phase 2, meaning that restaurants would have to return to pick-up or out-door dining and similar restrictions.

    Instead, he did NOT take that action. Even though it was pretty clear that many if not most of his public health advisors wanted him to. Inslee's justification was that new cases from the latest wave had "plateaued" just that weekend.

    And last week, the COVID did the near impossible, by uniting Democratic AND Republican legislators from Pierce County (Tacoma & burbs) to lobby the Gov to allow their county to enter Phase 3 so restaurants can reopen for (limited) indoor service. So far that has NOT happened, but as soon as the Gov can do so, with a straight face & half-way clear conscious, it will happen.

    As for UK, my guess is that localized restrictions may be imposed - and almost certainly will be - IF their are serious local spikes. But nationally (or however it's devolved) the lockdown lift schedule will be met.

    Unless evidence against it is overwhelming, which I'm guessing it will not be?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,437
    Cyclefree said:

    I've just spent the past hour arguing about Israel and Palestine with some old muslim friends on Facebook. They are far closer to out-and-out supporting Hamas than I think they care to admit. I find it very worrying.

    Why are you surprised?

    Look at NI - the relatively moderate parties were pushed to the margins by the hard men on both sides. And the voters supported them. It was Sinn Fein and the DUP who gained power - not the poor old SDLP or the official Unionists. The same is happening in Israel and in the Occupied Territories.
    Heck, look at the Republicans and Democrats in the US. Biggest reason that Uncle Joe wasn't roadkill in the 2020 primaries was because too many Dems were scared shitless that Trumpsky was gonna get reelected. Including & especially Black voters in the South who were the ones who saved Biden at that VERY crucial juncture.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 20,686
    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Had a fun day today looking up some ancestry stuff with my Dad.

    He's always thought that his paternal grandparents were Irish, and had moved to England from there. Dad was quite keen on getting an Irish passport if we could prove it.

    He knew his Nan's name, Philomena, but not his grandfather's who had died before Dad was born.

    I managed to find the record of his grandfather John's will, which listed his address and the amount he'd left to Philomena.

    Then found out that John was born in the same English town as my Dad (but his father was probably from Ireland), and Philomena (nee MacDonald - not coincidentally the name that my Dad's Dad used when he changed his name and ran away to start a new family in Birmingham when my Dad was 11) was from Scotland.

    So I'm feeling a bit less Irish and a bit more Scottish than I was when I woke up!

    And quite a long way from an EU passport..

    Genealogy is always fun.
    It really is, though I'd guess a bit more formal and official in the world of old banking families than those of Irish pig farmers?!

    Dad's also sent me a 'history' of his maternal grandmother's family that was typed out by one of her brothers back in 1984, to the best of his memory - and just before he died in Jan 85.

    There's some funny and interesting stuff in his memories of his family, and a couple of tales of men in the military with local press clippings from WW2.

    But the main theme seems to be that all the men were essentially drunks who died early from drinking.

    While I sit here sipping a rather nice Australian Shiraz, I wonder if there might be some sort of warning there..
    One of my cousins has researched my Dad’s family back to the 1540s… I’ve been more interested in my Mum’s side as a result.

    I only learnt a couple of weeks ago, for example, that in the 1900s/1910s (different) family members were the head of Sinn Fein and the head of the Irish/Ulster Unionists*

    * Edward Carson & Edward Martyn
    I'd thought it might be interesting to see if Dad's family had left Ireland around the Irish Civil War time as Dad thought, as we could have found them in the historic Irish census records.

    I haven't yet looked into my Mum's Dad's family, but I believe that he was descended from Orangemen. And quite proud of it..
    One of the problems of genealogy is indeed the ICW - the destruction of the Four Courts. Lots of family records were lost then ...
    I have the original land deeds for the family farm in Ireland from the 1780's. That is when Ireland was still a separate state, before the Act of Union. Quite a rarity - one of my projects is to find out more about the family history before then. We know in general terms that the family name goes back to,the 11th century or thereabouts bit I'd like to find out a bit more of the detail.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,437

    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic. Out with Daughter tonight - her view and that of colleagues in hospitality in the area is that the promised lifting of restrictions in June will not happen. She fears this - obviously. Another lockdown will shut her business and many like hers for good. It is simply not viable to keep opening under restrictions then being shut again a few weeks later.

    But what she and others expect are continuing restrictions and that stage 5 or whatever it is will not happen. They are in despair about it because trading under current restrictions is impossible really - it's a slow death.

    The only good news is that her 30 year old chef has been called for his 1st vaccine dose tomorrow. So there is clearly a lot of ramping up of the vaccination effort happening. It is the only way out. And, anecdotally, the group felt a lot of resentment of anti-vaxxers & those travelling or not getting the vaccine making things worse for everyone else.

    It’s good that they are ramping up vaccines, but the mind boggles what they were waiting for.
    Have they been waiting? I’m known on PB as being a hard-to-please vaccine hawk, yet even I’ve been surprised on the upside by how many we have done in the last few weeks. We have wiped out lots of second dose debt and are now in a position to blitz the young.
    There has been no evidence through out this process anybody is waiting around or any real wastage....its organized chaos where generally everybody uses up all they get as fast as possible.
    It is an outstanding national success story.

    I'm a soppy old git but when I took my wife for her second jab yesterday I personally thanked every member of the team I saw.

    I can be critical of the NHS at times, and this last lockdown has impacted one of my son's treatments directly - but hats off to them over this.
    I am not a massively emotional type, but I certainly felt quite a special emotional feeling when I got jabbed....but thar might be because I am now plugged into SkyNet and they are controlling what they want me to think and feel.
    Actually it's the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation that has got it's chip now firmly imbedded within you.

    Thus any (unusual) cognitive dissonance you are currently experiencing, are the lawyers fighting over the divorce. FYI, turns out there was NO pre-nup. AND the Great State of WA is a community property state. Hence, she's entitled to 50% of . . . you do the math . . .
    Melinda wasn't impressed with the chip being embedded, that's why they're getting a divorce.

    I know its true, because I just made that up.
    Published accounts (in WSJ & etc) say it was because of the Sainted Bill hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein.

    My theory is that Melinda has her soon-to-be-ex by the short & curlies. Including documentation, some of which federal prosecutors dealing with La Maxwell and others in Epstein's Secret Island circle (such as at least one Prince of the Blood) would LOVE to get their mitts on.

    So don't expect too much push-back from Mr. Gates. Unless he wants to be neutered in court AND in the media. Just too bad he's not more like his old man, a truly good man AND a gentleman.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,437
    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Had a fun day today looking up some ancestry stuff with my Dad.

    He's always thought that his paternal grandparents were Irish, and had moved to England from there. Dad was quite keen on getting an Irish passport if we could prove it.

    He knew his Nan's name, Philomena, but not his grandfather's who had died before Dad was born.

    I managed to find the record of his grandfather John's will, which listed his address and the amount he'd left to Philomena.

    Then found out that John was born in the same English town as my Dad (but his father was probably from Ireland), and Philomena (nee MacDonald - not coincidentally the name that my Dad's Dad used when he changed his name and ran away to start a new family in Birmingham when my Dad was 11) was from Scotland.

    So I'm feeling a bit less Irish and a bit more Scottish than I was when I woke up!

    And quite a long way from an EU passport..

    Genealogy is always fun.
    It really is, though I'd guess a bit more formal and official in the world of old banking families than those of Irish pig farmers?!

    Dad's also sent me a 'history' of his maternal grandmother's family that was typed out by one of her brothers back in 1984, to the best of his memory - and just before he died in Jan 85.

    There's some funny and interesting stuff in his memories of his family, and a couple of tales of men in the military with local press clippings from WW2.

    But the main theme seems to be that all the men were essentially drunks who died early from drinking.

    While I sit here sipping a rather nice Australian Shiraz, I wonder if there might be some sort of warning there..
    One of my cousins has researched my Dad’s family back to the 1540s… I’ve been more interested in my Mum’s side as a result.

    I only learnt a couple of weeks ago, for example, that in the 1900s/1910s (different) family members were the head of Sinn Fein and the head of the Irish/Ulster Unionists*

    * Edward Carson & Edward Martyn
    I'd thought it might be interesting to see if Dad's family had left Ireland around the Irish Civil War time as Dad thought, as we could have found them in the historic Irish census records.

    I haven't yet looked into my Mum's Dad's family, but I believe that he was descended from Orangemen. And quite proud of it..
    One of the problems of genealogy is indeed the ICW - the destruction of the Four Courts. Lots of family records were lost then ...
    I have the original land deeds for the family farm in Ireland from the 1780's. That is when Ireland was still a separate state, before the Act of Union. Quite a rarity - one of my projects is to find out more about the family history before then. We know in general terms that the family name goes back to,the 11th century or thereabouts bit I'd like to find out a bit more of the detail.
    So recent blow-ins, were they? (Just joking!) What county?:
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 14,865
    Cyclefree said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/gunnerpunner/status/1393920559243829248

    Horrifying stuff. Quadruply worse because it's on Finchley road, one of the main places of residence for British Jews

    The anti-semitism is vile and horrifying and already commented on. Less noticed and less commented on by politicians is the threat of rape against women. Jewish women in this instance. But noticeable that sexual violence against women is chosen as the means of revenge. The despicable combination of hatred of a minority & threats of violence against women. Remember what women were protesting about last month.
    Utterly horrifyingis what it is.
    theProle said:

    kle4 said:

    Keir Starmer has said Labour will have a completely new blueprint for power not based on previous manifestos, as he told activists he would spend the summer making extended visits to places the party must win.

    The Labour leader told a conference hosted by the centre-left thinktank Progressive Britain on Sunday that the party’s policy review would not take previous manifestos as its starting point, despite the close attachment of many members to the radical manifestos drawn up under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/16/keir-starmer-vows-all-new-labour-manifesto-and-economic-offer

    I'm not sure what that statement even means. Odds are good a lot of what ends up in there will have been in previous manifestoes - plenty of good stuff in there I'm sure - so is this just about telling 'the left' not to think the personnel involved are rehabilitated?
    Isn't this more a play for time on Starmers part than anything else? He's currently a policy vacuum, this is a play for it to continue for a bit longer. Probably he knows if he ever actually comes up with some policies, the party will fight like rats in a sack over them.
    In the week of Bob Zimmermann's 80th a quote.
    "Electrified half my audience, electrocuted the rest."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,484
    Only 35 days to go to total freedom.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 14,865
    Cyclefree said:

    I've just spent the past hour arguing about Israel and Palestine with some old muslim friends on Facebook. They are far closer to out-and-out supporting Hamas than I think they care to admit. I find it very worrying.

    Why are you surprised?

    Look at NI - the relatively moderate parties were pushed to the margins by the hard men on both sides. And the voters supported them. It was Sinn Fein and the DUP who gained power - not the poor old SDLP or the official Unionists. The same is happening in Israel and in the Occupied Territories.
    Every bugger cleaves to the fringes to protect them from the "other".
    There is a reason Netanyahu and Hamas remain in power.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 20,686

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Had a fun day today looking up some ancestry stuff with my Dad.

    He's always thought that his paternal grandparents were Irish, and had moved to England from there. Dad was quite keen on getting an Irish passport if we could prove it.

    He knew his Nan's name, Philomena, but not his grandfather's who had died before Dad was born.

    I managed to find the record of his grandfather John's will, which listed his address and the amount he'd left to Philomena.

    Then found out that John was born in the same English town as my Dad (but his father was probably from Ireland), and Philomena (nee MacDonald - not coincidentally the name that my Dad's Dad used when he changed his name and ran away to start a new family in Birmingham when my Dad was 11) was from Scotland.

    So I'm feeling a bit less Irish and a bit more Scottish than I was when I woke up!

    And quite a long way from an EU passport..

    Genealogy is always fun.
    It really is, though I'd guess a bit more formal and official in the world of old banking families than those of Irish pig farmers?!

    Dad's also sent me a 'history' of his maternal grandmother's family that was typed out by one of her brothers back in 1984, to the best of his memory - and just before he died in Jan 85.

    There's some funny and interesting stuff in his memories of his family, and a couple of tales of men in the military with local press clippings from WW2.

    But the main theme seems to be that all the men were essentially drunks who died early from drinking.

    While I sit here sipping a rather nice Australian Shiraz, I wonder if there might be some sort of warning there..
    One of my cousins has researched my Dad’s family back to the 1540s… I’ve been more interested in my Mum’s side as a result.

    I only learnt a couple of weeks ago, for example, that in the 1900s/1910s (different) family members were the head of Sinn Fein and the head of the Irish/Ulster Unionists*

    * Edward Carson & Edward Martyn
    I'd thought it might be interesting to see if Dad's family had left Ireland around the Irish Civil War time as Dad thought, as we could have found them in the historic Irish census records.

    I haven't yet looked into my Mum's Dad's family, but I believe that he was descended from Orangemen. And quite proud of it..
    One of the problems of genealogy is indeed the ICW - the destruction of the Four Courts. Lots of family records were lost then ...
    I have the original land deeds for the family farm in Ireland from the 1780's. That is when Ireland was still a separate state, before the Act of Union. Quite a rarity - one of my projects is to find out more about the family history before then. We know in general terms that the family name goes back to,the 11th century or thereabouts bit I'd like to find out a bit more of the detail.
    So recent blow-ins, were they? (Just joking!) What county?:
    County Limerick - Kilmallock. It has one of the oldest Norman arches in the country - Blossom Gate. My parents are buried in the nearby cemetery in Tankardstown. I believe that there has been a cemetery there since the 15th century.
This discussion has been closed.