Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
Rather than trying to find ways of punishing anti-vaxxers ('let them die, charge them for oxygen' etc.), wouldn't it be more productive, and in all our interests, to use publicity, peer pressure, and even bribes (yes, I can see the problem) to persuade them to get the jab? Given the amount another lockdown would cost, I'd be throwing money at convincing anti-vaxxers that they're wrong, both morally and medically, to dip out.
One tangles with the anti-vaxers at your peril!
Those on PB yesterday may remember that I did my best to help an unhappy woman who had been turned away from our local vaccination centre because they only had AZN, she was under 40, and hadn’t sought prior advice from her GP.
I posted the advice I had received from the NHS Trust, to avoid anyone else ending up in the same situation, on the local Facebook noticeboard. When I logged in this morning I was welcomed by a flood of comments from local anti-vaxers including one that accused me of “escorting island residents to the gas chambers”.
Crikey, that’s a somewhat extreme reaction...
I’ve had it taken down from Facebook as contrary to their policy. But it shows the type of strong abuse you can get for appearing to be in favour of vaccination, even though my original posting was strictly factual.
Here are some of the other comments I received:
putting an untested, blood clotting vaccine into perfectly healthy people’s body’s
how much you getting paid for endorsing this poison Ian
maybe a few years down the line you’ll feel massive regret for your part in ruining people’s life’s
If you can honestly think this is normal and not question it then there’s just no helping you.
I know someone two people with family members, one who was 39 and had a stroke after having it and the other one died. They died after having the vaccine and got told it was from natural causes
It’s quite extraordinary that not only do they spew so much bile, and so much stupidity, but they can’t even spell and punctuate correctly.
Extraordinary? I’d say it was eminently predictable.
Rather than trying to find ways of punishing anti-vaxxers ('let them die, charge them for oxygen' etc.), wouldn't it be more productive, and in all our interests, to use publicity, peer pressure, and even bribes (yes, I can see the problem) to persuade them to get the jab? Given the amount another lockdown would cost, I'd be throwing money at convincing anti-vaxxers that they're wrong, both morally and medically, to dip out.
One tangles with the anti-vaxers at your peril!
Those on PB yesterday may remember that I did my best to help an unhappy woman who had been turned away from our local vaccination centre because they only had AZN, she was under 40, and hadn’t sought prior advice from her GP.
I posted the advice I had received from the NHS Trust, to avoid anyone else ending up in the same situation, on the local Facebook noticeboard. When I logged in this morning I was welcomed by a flood of comments from local anti-vaxers including one that accused me of “escorting island residents to the gas chambers”.
Crikey, that’s a somewhat extreme reaction...
I’ve had it taken down from Facebook as contrary to their policy. But it shows the type of strong abuse you can get for appearing to be in favour of vaccination, even though my original posting was strictly factual.
Here are some of the other comments I received:
putting an untested, blood clotting vaccine into perfectly healthy people’s body’s
how much you getting paid for endorsing this poison Ian
maybe a few years down the line you’ll feel massive regret for your part in ruining people’s life’s
If you can honestly think this is normal and not question it then there’s just no helping you.
I know someone two people with family members, one who was 39 and had a stroke after having it and the other one died. They died after having the vaccine and got told it was from natural causes
It’s quite extraordinary that not only do they spew so much bile, and so much stupidity, but they can’t even spell and punctuate correctly.
Extraordinary? I’d say it was eminently predictable.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h Once we reach the point all age groups have been offered vaccinations, if there's still an issue of the unvaccinated creating pressure on the NHS - with the knock on effect for other operations - then I think we need to revisit vaccine passports.
It's worth mentioning the Green success earlier in the month was partly the result of "informal" deals with the LDs and other parties.
I had a closer look at Surrey where the Conservatives lost 14 seats and particularly at the Guildford divisions.
In Shere, the LDs didn't stand but the Greens stood against the Guildford Greenbelt Group splitting the anti-Conservative vote and allowing the Conservatives to hold the seat by just 78. With the Greens winning 862 votes, it's fair to say had the Greens not stood, the Conservatives would have lost the seat.
In Guildford South-East, the Greens didn't stand but the LDs did but the Conservative still lost, this time to the Residents for Guildford and Villages (RGV), who did so well in the 2019 Borough elections.
In Guildford West, the sitting LD was allowed a free run against both Conservative and Labour but in Shalford and Worplesdon, the LDs and the RGV both contested the seats. In Ash, the LDs had a free run and took the seat. In Horsleys, the Greens again stood aside and Cabinet Julie Iles lost to the RGV despite the LDs also running.
The LDs fought off a strong RGV challenge in Guildford East but held Guildford North in the absence of any RGV or Green candidate.
All this tells me is the absence of any broad strategic thinking but a local hotch-potch of informal arrangements which are often the result of personalities who either get along or don't. It's also a question of areas of local strength or weakness.
There's also the presence (locally) of often anti-development groups who generally find the Greens quite easy to deal with (Shere being an obvious exception - don't know why) but the LDs less so. These groups are able to garner a lot of local support and, to give them their due, campaign hard and effectively.
What does this mean for national politics? The chimera of a broad progressive anti-Conservative alliance is probably just that. I can certainly envisage seats where there will be "deals" between the LDs, Greens and perhaps the odd Independent but the anti-Conservative parties are also often anti-Labour so what will need to happen is what happened in the run-up to 1997 when the electorate worked it out for themselves (not always correctly) which party was best placed to defeat the Conservatives where they lived.
So in Guildford who are your Residents groups? Are they LibDem Indies, Lab Indies, Tory Indies or just common or garden Nimbys?
Do they have a vision for Guildford, or are they mainly against things?
OK where to start is difficult on this one. I am in the Guildford Borough and represented on the Borough by 2 r4gv and 1 Greenbelt and by a r4gv on the County Council. Normally this is as safe Tory as you can get.
There are 2 residents groups, r4gv and Greenbelt. r4gv is the main one. Both are in coalition with the LDs in the Borough. Both have the same origin really - see below:
The r4gv in itself is a coalition of ex Tories, one ex LD and a lot of none of these. The ex Tories are not necessarily on the left of the Tories. They do not follow a political ideology but are anti the Guildford Tories with a passion and not because they are Tories.
In fact the Mole Valley Tories (Mole Valley has several Borough seats in Guildford) really don't like the Guildford Tories either. It isn't political.
Well you have to have followed the history of the what happened here to know why and that is too long to do, but lets just say it has been interesting (coup, councilor sent down for fraud, trying to impose a mayor [rejected by 90%], passing a spectacularly flawed local plan the day before local elections where you know you are going to get thrown out, etc, etc).
The Tories are trying to regroup now, but the damage was done.
To give you one example of the impact of that damage. A byelection in the Lovelace ward, which has never been won by anyone but the Conservatives was lost to the LDs with 70% of the vote. It is in the Mole Valley constituency so the Mole Valley Conservatives put up the Tory candidate (he was and is good). The Guildford Conservatives refused to support him even though it was for Guildford Borough.
Once r4gv was set up both the LD victor and the Tory candidate both defected to r4gv.
It is complicated.
PS, if the LDs GBG and r4gv had got their act together earlier the last Borough election would not just have been slaughter for the Tories but a wipe out.
PPS I know that all local plans get a lot of objections, but just to put into perspective how bad this one was it got 20,000 objections. That is a significant proportion of the entire voting population of Guildford Borough and they insisted on forcing it through the day before the election and apparently this can not be reversed.
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
It's always easier to go for a one or a couple of groups than make a critique across the piece.
Witness similarly those going for Poots on the basis of 'Young Earth Creationist", who haven't gone for Muslims who mainly believe in 'creation ex nihilo' or Hindus and Reincarnation.
I'm nto aware that Poots has ever let his YEC affect his political policies - if he attempts to shoehorn it into the curriculum history segment, that would be a little different.
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I know three anti-vaxxers.
One is a highly educated, impeccably middle class woman who is anti-gluten, anti-meat, anti-vax etc.
The two others are minority ethnic women who seem to believe any old shit they read on the internet.
Rather than trying to find ways of punishing anti-vaxxers ('let them die, charge them for oxygen' etc.), wouldn't it be more productive, and in all our interests, to use publicity, peer pressure, and even bribes (yes, I can see the problem) to persuade them to get the jab? Given the amount another lockdown would cost, I'd be throwing money at convincing anti-vaxxers that they're wrong, both morally and medically, to dip out.
One tangles with the anti-vaxers at your peril!
Those on PB yesterday may remember that I did my best to help an unhappy woman who had been turned away from our local vaccination centre because they only had AZN, she was under 40, and hadn’t sought prior advice from her GP.
I posted the advice I had received from the NHS Trust, to avoid anyone else ending up in the same situation, on the local Facebook noticeboard. When I logged in this morning I was welcomed by a flood of comments from local anti-vaxers including one that accused me of “escorting island residents to the gas chambers”.
Crikey, that’s a somewhat extreme reaction...
I’ve had it taken down from Facebook as contrary to their policy. But it shows the type of strong abuse you can get for appearing to be in favour of vaccination, even though my original posting was strictly factual.
Here are some of the other comments I received:
putting an untested, blood clotting vaccine into perfectly healthy people’s body’s
how much you getting paid for endorsing this poison Ian
maybe a few years down the line you’ll feel massive regret for your part in ruining people’s life’s
If you can honestly think this is normal and not question it then there’s just no helping you.
I know someone two people with family members, one who was 39 and had a stroke after having it and the other one died. They died after having the vaccine and got told it was from natural causes
It’s quite extraordinary that not only do they spew so much bile, and so much stupidity, but they can’t even spell and punctuate correctly.
Extraordinary? I’d say it was eminently predictable.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h Once we reach the point all age groups have been offered vaccinations, if there's still an issue of the unvaccinated creating pressure on the NHS - with the knock on effect for other operations - then I think we need to revisit vaccine passports.
Yes, I was absolutely against them. But a mate at the pub last night was arguing this exact point very eloquently. Hmm.
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
That's been my personal experience - though my niece & nephew went out and got all the jabs their yoga teacher Mum had denied them as soon as they turned 18....
Rather than trying to find ways of punishing anti-vaxxers ('let them die, charge them for oxygen' etc.), wouldn't it be more productive, and in all our interests, to use publicity, peer pressure, and even bribes (yes, I can see the problem) to persuade them to get the jab? Given the amount another lockdown would cost, I'd be throwing money at convincing anti-vaxxers that they're wrong, both morally and medically, to dip out.
One tangles with the anti-vaxers at your peril!
Those on PB yesterday may remember that I did my best to help an unhappy woman who had been turned away from our local vaccination centre because they only had AZN, she was under 40, and hadn’t sought prior advice from her GP.
I posted the advice I had received from the NHS Trust, to avoid anyone else ending up in the same situation, on the local Facebook noticeboard. When I logged in this morning I was welcomed by a flood of comments from local anti-vaxers including one that accused me of “escorting island residents to the gas chambers”.
Crikey, that’s a somewhat extreme reaction...
I’ve had it taken down from Facebook as contrary to their policy. But it shows the type of strong abuse you can get for appearing to be in favour of vaccination, even though my original posting was strictly factual.
Here are some of the other comments I received:
putting an untested, blood clotting vaccine into perfectly healthy people’s body’s
how much you getting paid for endorsing this poison Ian
maybe a few years down the line you’ll feel massive regret for your part in ruining people’s life’s
If you can honestly think this is normal and not question it then there’s just no helping you.
I know someone two people with family members, one who was 39 and had a stroke after having it and the other one died. They died after having the vaccine and got told it was from natural causes
It’s quite extraordinary that not only do they spew so much bile, and so much stupidity, but they can’t even spell and punctuate correctly.
Extraordinary? I’d say it was eminently predictable.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h Once we reach the point all age groups have been offered vaccinations, if there's still an issue of the unvaccinated creating pressure on the NHS - with the knock on effect for other operations - then I think we need to revisit vaccine passports.
Yes, I was absolutely against them. But a mate at the pub last night was arguing this exact point very eloquently. Hmm.
It depends really on whether the number we have vaccinated through voluntarism allows us to keep the virus under control. So far the evidence is that we can *in this country.* If so, vaccine passports won’t be necessary.
Although actually I do wish we charged for people who arbitrarily refuse vaccines and become seriously ill in consequence - not just for Covid either. It’s unacceptable really that the rest of us have to pick up the bill for their selfishness.
The only problem is, we’d have to make exemptions for vegetarians, religious reasons, as well as health reasons - so I can see why it’s such a minefield.
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I don’t know a single person who is not taking the vaccine. Not one.
Rather than trying to find ways of punishing anti-vaxxers ('let them die, charge them for oxygen' etc.), wouldn't it be more productive, and in all our interests, to use publicity, peer pressure, and even bribes (yes, I can see the problem) to persuade them to get the jab? Given the amount another lockdown would cost, I'd be throwing money at convincing anti-vaxxers that they're wrong, both morally and medically, to dip out.
One tangles with the anti-vaxers at your peril!
Those on PB yesterday may remember that I did my best to help an unhappy woman who had been turned away from our local vaccination centre because they only had AZN, she was under 40, and hadn’t sought prior advice from her GP.
I posted the advice I had received from the NHS Trust, to avoid anyone else ending up in the same situation, on the local Facebook noticeboard. When I logged in this morning I was welcomed by a flood of comments from local anti-vaxers including one that accused me of “escorting island residents to the gas chambers”.
Crikey, that’s a somewhat extreme reaction...
I’ve had it taken down from Facebook as contrary to their policy. But it shows the type of strong abuse you can get for appearing to be in favour of vaccination, even though my original posting was strictly factual.
Here are some of the other comments I received:
putting an untested, blood clotting vaccine into perfectly healthy people’s body’s
how much you getting paid for endorsing this poison Ian
maybe a few years down the line you’ll feel massive regret for your part in ruining people’s life’s
If you can honestly think this is normal and not question it then there’s just no helping you.
I know someone two people with family members, one who was 39 and had a stroke after having it and the other one died. They died after having the vaccine and got told it was from natural causes
It’s quite extraordinary that not only do they spew so much bile, and so much stupidity, but they can’t even spell and punctuate correctly.
Extraordinary? I’d say it was eminently predictable.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h Once we reach the point all age groups have been offered vaccinations, if there's still an issue of the unvaccinated creating pressure on the NHS - with the knock on effect for other operations - then I think we need to revisit vaccine passports.
Yes, I was absolutely against them. But a mate at the pub last night was arguing this exact point very eloquently. Hmm.
It depends really on whether the number we have vaccinated through voluntarism allows us to keep the virus under control. So far the evidence is that we can *in this country.* If so, vaccine passports won’t be necessary.
Although actually I do wish we charged for people who arbitrarily refuse vaccines and become seriously ill in consequence - not just for Covid either. It’s unacceptable really that the rest of us have to pick up the bill for their selfishness.
The only problem is, we’d have to make exemptions for vegetarians, religious reasons, as well as health reasons - so I can see why it’s such a minefield.
I think we should hold on to the hope that this is just not an issue in this country outside some hotspots. Time to hold our nerve for a couple of weeks and see where we are with B.1.167.2
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
It's always easier to go for a one or a couple of groups than make a critique across the piece.
Witness similarly those going for Poots on the basis of 'Young Earth Creationist", who haven't gone for Muslims who mainly believe in 'creation ex nihilo' or Hindus and Reincarnation.
I'm nto aware that Poots has ever let his YEC affect his political policies - if he attempts to shoehorn it into the curriculum history segment, that would be a little different.
Science, surely?
The development of YEC through a combination of religious evangelism and Darwinian challenges is a legitimate area of study in history
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I don’t know a single person who is not taking the vaccine. Not one.
% First Dose England: 53.6 NE +Y: 58.1 SW: 58.0 EoE: 57.9 SE: 53.7 Mid: 53.2 NW: 52.1 Lon: 42.7
Wales is the clear champ (63.1), followed by Scotland (54.6) with NI bringing up the rear:(52.4)
Just checked my area, 56.4%; 90% of over 40s now.
It just beggars belief. London is the most likely place where its NHS will break under the strain of too many cases as far as I can see. It is always under pressure as a NHS system thanks to scale of the capital.
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I don’t know a single person who is not taking the vaccine. Not one.
Rather than trying to find ways of punishing anti-vaxxers ('let them die, charge them for oxygen' etc.), wouldn't it be more productive, and in all our interests, to use publicity, peer pressure, and even bribes (yes, I can see the problem) to persuade them to get the jab? Given the amount another lockdown would cost, I'd be throwing money at convincing anti-vaxxers that they're wrong, both morally and medically, to dip out.
One tangles with the anti-vaxers at your peril!
Those on PB yesterday may remember that I did my best to help an unhappy woman who had been turned away from our local vaccination centre because they only had AZN, she was under 40, and hadn’t sought prior advice from her GP.
I posted the advice I had received from the NHS Trust, to avoid anyone else ending up in the same situation, on the local Facebook noticeboard. When I logged in this morning I was welcomed by a flood of comments from local anti-vaxers including one that accused me of “escorting island residents to the gas chambers”.
Crikey, that’s a somewhat extreme reaction...
I’ve had it taken down from Facebook as contrary to their policy. But it shows the type of strong abuse you can get for appearing to be in favour of vaccination, even though my original posting was strictly factual.
Here are some of the other comments I received:
putting an untested, blood clotting vaccine into perfectly healthy people’s body’s
how much you getting paid for endorsing this poison Ian
maybe a few years down the line you’ll feel massive regret for your part in ruining people’s life’s
If you can honestly think this is normal and not question it then there’s just no helping you.
I know someone two people with family members, one who was 39 and had a stroke after having it and the other one died. They died after having the vaccine and got told it was from natural causes
It’s quite extraordinary that not only do they spew so much bile, and so much stupidity, but they can’t even spell and punctuate correctly.
Extraordinary? I’d say it was eminently predictable.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h Once we reach the point all age groups have been offered vaccinations, if there's still an issue of the unvaccinated creating pressure on the NHS - with the knock on effect for other operations - then I think we need to revisit vaccine passports.
Yes, I was absolutely against them. But a mate at the pub last night was arguing this exact point very eloquently. Hmm.
I'm still against them if it is a digital app solution that we will never get rid of and will become a privacy nightmare. I think we hold our nerve. If anti-vaxxers are about to swamp our NHS what the hell is about to happen in France which has way way more of the refuse-niks?
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I don’t know a single person who is not taking the vaccine. Not one.
Nor me. But they are out there!
There are always people who will refuse. I must admit my experience of the AZ has been quite rough but my family are in vulnerable sectors so it would have been inexcusable of me to have refused, even if I wanted to. It is just personally on a smaller scale.
What was the scenario with the smallpox vaccine? I am sure I was taught it but it has gone from my somewhat fragmented memory.
Rather than trying to find ways of punishing anti-vaxxers ('let them die, charge them for oxygen' etc.), wouldn't it be more productive, and in all our interests, to use publicity, peer pressure, and even bribes (yes, I can see the problem) to persuade them to get the jab? Given the amount another lockdown would cost, I'd be throwing money at convincing anti-vaxxers that they're wrong, both morally and medically, to dip out.
One tangles with the anti-vaxers at your peril!
Those on PB yesterday may remember that I did my best to help an unhappy woman who had been turned away from our local vaccination centre because they only had AZN, she was under 40, and hadn’t sought prior advice from her GP.
I posted the advice I had received from the NHS Trust, to avoid anyone else ending up in the same situation, on the local Facebook noticeboard. When I logged in this morning I was welcomed by a flood of comments from local anti-vaxers including one that accused me of “escorting island residents to the gas chambers”.
Crikey, that’s a somewhat extreme reaction...
I’ve had it taken down from Facebook as contrary to their policy. But it shows the type of strong abuse you can get for appearing to be in favour of vaccination, even though my original posting was strictly factual.
Here are some of the other comments I received:
putting an untested, blood clotting vaccine into perfectly healthy people’s body’s
how much you getting paid for endorsing this poison Ian
maybe a few years down the line you’ll feel massive regret for your part in ruining people’s life’s
If you can honestly think this is normal and not question it then there’s just no helping you.
I know someone two people with family members, one who was 39 and had a stroke after having it and the other one died. They died after having the vaccine and got told it was from natural causes
It’s quite extraordinary that not only do they spew so much bile, and so much stupidity, but they can’t even spell and punctuate correctly.
Extraordinary? I’d say it was eminently predictable.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h Once we reach the point all age groups have been offered vaccinations, if there's still an issue of the unvaccinated creating pressure on the NHS - with the knock on effect for other operations - then I think we need to revisit vaccine passports.
Yes, I was absolutely against them. But a mate at the pub last night was arguing this exact point very eloquently. Hmm.
It depends really on whether the number we have vaccinated through voluntarism allows us to keep the virus under control. So far the evidence is that we can *in this country.* If so, vaccine passports won’t be necessary.
Although actually I do wish we charged for people who arbitrarily refuse vaccines and become seriously ill in consequence - not just for Covid either. It’s unacceptable really that the rest of us have to pick up the bill for their selfishness.
The only problem is, we’d have to make exemptions for vegetarians, religious reasons, as well as health reasons - so I can see why it’s such a minefield.
I think we should hold on to the hope that this is just not an issue in this country outside some hotspots. Time to hold our nerve for a couple of weeks and see where we are with B.1.167.2
The rate of increase in positive tests nationally has been waning for some days now. All eyes on the 4pm update. Eek!
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Yes it is a bit lazy. But there is a definite skew towards *some* minority groups in the refuseniks.
Interestingly, a couple of the middle class refuseniks I know are using the "right to their own facts" argument.
""right to their own facts"?
Is that the same as no longer believing in any kind of universal truth, like 2+2=4?
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I don’t know a single person who is not taking the vaccine. Not one.
This time last year, I knew a whole batch. But they’ve all had it by now.
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I don’t know a single person who is not taking the vaccine. Not one.
This time last year, I knew a whole batch. But they’ve all had it by now.
Just a straw in the wind. Mrs Anabob, who has zero interest in politics, was really pissed off last night. “I’m not going to see my cousin’s wedding cancelled AGAIN because a bunch of stupid people refuse to take the vaccine.” She was furious. There will be more like her.
Just spoken to one of the most communitarian friends of mine; he has followed every rule to the letter; one of the very few people I know who hasn't even pushed the boundaries of the spirit of the 'covid law'.
He is fuming. Says he won't lockdown for anti vaxxers.
If they've lost him, and Mrs A, the Govt are going to be struggling with this....
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I don’t know a single person who is not taking the vaccine. Not one.
Nor me. But they are out there!
There are always people who will refuse. I must admit my experience of the AZ has been quite rough but my family are in vulnerable sectors so it would have been inexcusable of me to have refused, even if I wanted to. It is just personally on a smaller scale.
What was the scenario with the smallpox vaccine? I am sure I was taught it but it has gone from my somewhat fragmented memory.
It was really dangerous! (although not as dangerous as smallpox!). I also had a fairly grim experience with AZ but younger people are taking one for the team. A couple of days feeling shit vs fucking up the country.
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I don’t know a single person who is not taking the vaccine. Not one.
I do. My acquaintance is 61, utterly convinced they are too healthy to succumb to the virus at all, because they only ever puts healthy things into their body (apart from the odd treat).
Strange thing is that over several years acquaintance, this person has often told me that they never get a cold for the self-same reasons - yet last year they caught a dreadful cold. But no bells rang.
Rather than trying to find ways of punishing anti-vaxxers ('let them die, charge them for oxygen' etc.), wouldn't it be more productive, and in all our interests, to use publicity, peer pressure, and even bribes (yes, I can see the problem) to persuade them to get the jab? Given the amount another lockdown would cost, I'd be throwing money at convincing anti-vaxxers that they're wrong, both morally and medically, to dip out.
One tangles with the anti-vaxers at your peril!
Those on PB yesterday may remember that I did my best to help an unhappy woman who had been turned away from our local vaccination centre because they only had AZN, she was under 40, and hadn’t sought prior advice from her GP.
I posted the advice I had received from the NHS Trust, to avoid anyone else ending up in the same situation, on the local Facebook noticeboard. When I logged in this morning I was welcomed by a flood of comments from local anti-vaxers including one that accused me of “escorting island residents to the gas chambers”.
Crikey, that’s a somewhat extreme reaction...
I’ve had it taken down from Facebook as contrary to their policy. But it shows the type of strong abuse you can get for appearing to be in favour of vaccination, even though my original posting was strictly factual.
Here are some of the other comments I received:
putting an untested, blood clotting vaccine into perfectly healthy people’s body’s
how much you getting paid for endorsing this poison Ian
maybe a few years down the line you’ll feel massive regret for your part in ruining people’s life’s
If you can honestly think this is normal and not question it then there’s just no helping you.
I know someone two people with family members, one who was 39 and had a stroke after having it and the other one died. They died after having the vaccine and got told it was from natural causes
It’s quite extraordinary that not only do they spew so much bile, and so much stupidity, but they can’t even spell and punctuate correctly.
Extraordinary? I’d say it was eminently predictable.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h Once we reach the point all age groups have been offered vaccinations, if there's still an issue of the unvaccinated creating pressure on the NHS - with the knock on effect for other operations - then I think we need to revisit vaccine passports.
Yes, I was absolutely against them. But a mate at the pub last night was arguing this exact point very eloquently. Hmm.
I'm still against them if it is a digital app solution that we will never get rid of and will become a privacy nightmare. I think we hold our nerve. If anti-vaxxers are about to swamp our NHS what the hell is about to happen in France which has way way more of the refuse-niks?
Exactly.
Bio security state cannot be introduced off the back of idiocy.
Two wrongs don't make a right. In fact, they take rights away....
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I don’t know a single person who is not taking the vaccine. Not one.
Does contrarian of this parish count?
There are people whom I “know” digitally but not knowingly in real life.
Just a straw in the wind. Mrs Anabob, who has zero interest in politics, was really pissed off last night. “I’m not going to see my cousin’s wedding cancelled AGAIN because a bunch of stupid people refuse to take the vaccine.” She was furious. There will be more like her.
Just spoken to one of the most communitarian friends of mine; he has followed every rule to the letter; one of the very few people I know who hasn't even pushed the boundaries of the spirit of the 'covid law'.
He is fuming. Says he won't lockdown for anti vaxxers.
If they've lost him, and Mrs A, the Govt are going to be struggling with this....
Yes, I think you are right about this. Part of me wonders whether the behavioural scientists are deliberately trying to stir up antivax outrage among the public. They must know there’s a hardcore group who are trying to freeload on the vaccination programme… hmm.
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I don’t know a single person who is not taking the vaccine. Not one.
This time last year, I knew a whole batch. But they’ve all had it by now.
Do you mean they've all had the vaccine, or that they're all dead?
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I don’t know a single person who is not taking the vaccine. Not one.
This time last year, I knew a whole batch. But they’ve all had it by now.
I am still unhappy with the thought of charging antis for NHS services. That opens up a huuuuuuge bag of very smelly stuff that I am sure we wouldn’t want to get into. Obesity, smoking, drinking, dangerous sports. Where would it, if it actually would, stop. Any government would just love, for reasons of cost or bowing to its own pressure groups, to use this as a precedent.
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
It's always easier to go for a one or a couple of groups than make a critique across the piece.
Witness similarly those going for Poots on the basis of 'Young Earth Creationist", who haven't gone for Muslims who mainly believe in 'creation ex nihilo' or Hindus and Reincarnation.
I'm nto aware that Poots has ever let his YEC affect his political policies - if he attempts to shoehorn it into the curriculum history segment, that would be a little different.
Science, surely?
The development of YEC through a combination of religious evangelism and Darwinian challenges is a legitimate area of study in history
I agree with that - though presumably it could potentially be both. There are bizarre publications by religious fundamentalists in all kind of areas.
It's always interesting in who goes for who.
The Michael Reiss imbroglio at the Royal Society in 2008 was an interesting counterpoint.
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I don’t know a single person who is not taking the vaccine. Not one.
This time last year, I knew a whole batch. But they’ve all had it by now.
Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?
That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...
I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.
*Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
I know three anti-vaxxers.
One is a highly educated, impeccably middle class woman who is anti-gluten, anti-meat, anti-vax etc.
The two others are minority ethnic women who seem to believe any old shit they read on the internet.
It's to do with the same reasons the Beatles went off to the Maharishi.
Search for self-actualisation.
I know one, and she is a Yoga Teacher / new age / 'clean living' type.
Comments
https://twitter.com/TravellingTabby/status/1393569596997787651?s=20
Oh,hold on...
https://twitter.com/TravellingTabby/status/1393253973524721670?s=20
% First Dose
England: 53.6
NE +Y: 58.1
SW: 58.0
EoE: 57.9
SE: 53.7
Mid: 53.2
NW: 52.1
Lon: 42.7
Wales is the clear champ (63.1), followed by Scotland (54.6) with NI bringing up the rear:(52.4)
@DPJHodges
·
1h
Once we reach the point all age groups have been offered vaccinations, if there's still an issue of the unvaccinated creating pressure on the NHS - with the knock on effect for other operations - then I think we need to revisit vaccine passports.
PPS I know that all local plans get a lot of objections, but just to put into perspective how bad this one was it got 20,000 objections. That is a significant proportion of the entire voting population of Guildford Borough and they insisted on forcing it through the day before the election and apparently this can not be reversed.
Witness similarly those going for Poots on the basis of 'Young Earth Creationist", who haven't gone for Muslims who mainly believe in 'creation ex nihilo' or Hindus and Reincarnation.
I'm nto aware that Poots has ever let his YEC affect his political policies - if he attempts to shoehorn it into the curriculum history segment, that would be a little different.
One is a highly educated, impeccably middle class woman who is anti-gluten, anti-meat, anti-vax etc.
The two others are minority ethnic women who seem to believe any old shit they read on the internet.
Although actually I do wish we charged for people who arbitrarily refuse vaccines and become seriously ill in consequence - not just for Covid either. It’s unacceptable really that the rest of us have to pick up the bill for their selfishness.
The only problem is, we’d have to make exemptions for vegetarians, religious reasons, as well as health reasons - so I can see why it’s such a minefield.
The development of YEC through a combination of religious evangelism and Darwinian challenges is a legitimate area of study in history
What was the scenario with the smallpox vaccine? I am sure I was taught it but it has gone from my somewhat fragmented memory.
Is that the same as no longer believing in any kind of universal truth, like 2+2=4?
He is fuming. Says he won't lockdown for anti vaxxers.
If they've lost him, and Mrs A, the Govt are going to be struggling with this....
Strange thing is that over several years acquaintance, this person has often told me that they never get a cold for the self-same reasons - yet last year they caught a dreadful cold. But no bells rang.
Bio security state cannot be introduced off the back of idiocy.
Two wrongs don't make a right. In fact, they take rights away....
Refused a vaccine
It's always interesting in who goes for who.
The Michael Reiss imbroglio at the Royal Society in 2008 was an interesting counterpoint.
Search for self-actualisation.
I know one, and she is a Yoga Teacher / new age / 'clean living' type.