The Conservatives haven’t had a major, irreversible split since 1846 (discounting the special case of the withdrawal of the Ulster Unionists from the wider unionist grouping in the early 1970s). I don’t see that changing now.
They had a split 2 years ago.
All of the Conservative and Unionists were expelled in favour of BoZoists
But they didn’t form a separate party. Just as they didn’t in 1867 or 1922 or 1975.
Not like Labour and the Liberals, who split more often than the Presbyterian Church.
No, I wouldn't expect a formal split in the Tory party, but that it is likely that Johnsons end (and all political careers end in failure) will come from losing popularity internally.
The hubris that we see now from Tory PB posters is much like what we saw in Mrs Thatchers third term, and just look at how that ended.
Immediately followed by another CON election win?
Yes, then a landslide Labour one.
Starmer is a Kinnock/Smith fellow, not a Blair.
To put a seasonal twist on it, he is John the Baptist, not the Messiah.
The Conservatives haven’t had a major, irreversible split since 1846 (discounting the special case of the withdrawal of the Ulster Unionists from the wider unionist grouping in the early 1970s). I don’t see that changing now.
They had a split 2 years ago.
All of the Conservative and Unionists were expelled in favour of BoZoists
But they didn’t form a separate party. Just as they didn’t in 1867 or 1922 or 1975.
Not like Labour and the Liberals, who split more often than the Presbyterian Church.
No, I wouldn't expect a formal split in the Tory party, but that it is likely that Johnsons end (and all political careers end in failure) will come from losing popularity internally.
The hubris that we see now from Tory PB posters is much like what we saw in Mrs Thatchers third term, and just look at how that ended.
Immediately followed by another CON election win?
Yes, then a landslide Labour one.
Starmer is a Kinnock/Smith fellow, not a Blair.
To put a seasonal twist on it, he is John the Baptist, not the Messiah.
Off to work for me though...
Didn't John the Baptist lose his head?
He is Peter - “By the time you have been leader a year, you will have denied all knowledge of your Remain, Republican & BLM philosophies three times...”
The Conservatives haven’t had a major, irreversible split since 1846 (discounting the special case of the withdrawal of the Ulster Unionists from the wider unionist grouping in the early 1970s). I don’t see that changing now.
They had a split 2 years ago.
All of the Conservative and Unionists were expelled in favour of BoZoists
I wasn't
You became a "Bozoist".
I find the shock and horror that Boris seems to be doing well, with his opponents saying it will all end in failure, quite amusing
All political careers end in failure, but the present political climate suggests Labour have the bigger problem and of course, as we all know, once Boris starts to lose his popularity he will be replaced and the party will move on
The conservative party's overwhelming desire for power, and its ability to flex its position on all kinds of issues, creates a near nervous breakdown in its opponents
Also the vaccine passport and travel changes to be announced by Boris tomorrow apply only to England, as the devolved administrations have not come to a decision
Once English residents start going on holiday and football sees limited return of spectators, the zero covid policies of Sturgeon and Drakeford are going to be greatly tested
As for Boris' electoral prospects, although he looks bullet proof now, he is a fake and will be found out. How? Fuck knows but he will be.
My guess is Brexit.
Everybody is ignoring it because Covid, but it remains a disaster.
Supermarket shelves are full only because we have not implemented Brexit yet, but orders and deliveries for other good are delayed by weeks.
Even John Redwood is beginning to realise he isn't getting the sunlit uplands he wanted.
Not sure. If people think we have Brexited then he doesn't need to worry too much about John Redwood. No one has the appetite to rejoin or fight for a harder version.
So we have BINO.
@DavidL would cite this as evidence of his genius. Me? I'm not so sure.
It's only BINO temporarily. Wasn't that due to change this month, but has been postponed until September. I don't know, I've lost track and interest.
As for Boris' electoral prospects, although he looks bullet proof now, he is a fake and will be found out. How? Fuck knows but he will be.
My guess is Brexit.
Everybody is ignoring it because Covid, but it remains a disaster.
Supermarket shelves are full only because we have not implemented Brexit yet, but orders and deliveries for other good are delayed by weeks.
Even John Redwood is beginning to realise he isn't getting the sunlit uplands he wanted.
Not sure. If people think we have Brexited then he doesn't need to worry too much about John Redwood. No one has the appetite to rejoin or fight for a harder version.
So we have BINO.
@DavidL would cite this as evidence of his genius. Me? I'm not so sure.
It's only BINO temporarily. Wasn't that due to change this month, but has been postponed until September. I don't know, I've lost track and interest.
Been listening to Peter Oborne holding forth on R4.
Does anyone have the book yet?
His chosen 'sample Boris lie' was "no country in the world has a functioning track and trace system. (HoC on 23/6/2020)" Oborne: "At that point quite a few countries had exactly that."
Fullfact: "Multiple countries have launched apps, including Germany, France, Australia, Singapore and Latvia. However uptake has been fairly low, and it’s too early to say whether they will be effective in helping combat Covid-19" https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-track-and-trace-app-boris-johnson/
Oborne is on a sticky wicket if that's his slam dunk.
(Full disclosure: personally I think PO is a dick.)
I think the recovery you refer to will be at the day of judgement, which as nobody knows when it will be, might well be a billion years away.. or more..
Been listening to Peter Oborne holding forth on R4.
Does anyone have the book yet?
His chosen 'sample Boris lie' was "no country in the world has a functioning track and trace system. (HoC on 23/6/2020)" Oborne: "At that point quite a few countries had exactly that."
Fullfact: "Multiple countries have launched apps, including Germany, France, Australia, Singapore and Latvia. However uptake has been fairly low, and it’s too early to say whether they will be effective in helping combat Covid-19" https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-track-and-trace-app-boris-johnson/
Oborne is on a sticky wicket if that's his slam dunk.
(Full disclosure: personally I think PO is a dick.)
Seems a ludicrous 'Boris lie' to choose from the vast field available.
Boris is flexible, pragmatic and determined. He has no problem at all in adopting what once would have been regarded as Labour policies in the same way as Blair had no problem at all in stealing Tory clothes. Its what winning politicians do. And he is going to win, yet again.
So we are going to see a lot more borrowing. A lot more public investment. A lot of "picking winners" some of which will prove to be duds. A lot more money spent on public services, especially health. A lot of money spent on rhe red wall seats that Labour took for granted and neglected for so long. Sir Keir will continue to look as if he has just bitten into a lemon. He will be left with nowhere to go. He is going to lose. A Hague result where an awful situation gets no worse might be the best he can hope for.
Of course a lot of people will say, well, Boris was just lucky. Again. It must make him laugh.
That's an unnecessarily long way of saying you admire his indefatigability.
As for Boris' electoral prospects, although he looks bullet proof now, he is a fake and will be found out. How? Fuck knows but he will be.
LOL. Has he ever even tried to hide his fakeness? He plays with it constantly and uses it to allow people to underestimate him.
Take a simple example, his 2 letters about Brexit one for and one against. Where do you think that story came from? It was a brilliant sleight of hand and those who loathe him cannot resist picking that scab again and again. They see insincerity and fakeness. Others see pragmatism and flexibility.
I wish we had a PM with greater personal integrity, who was less grandiose, who seemed a bit more focused and didn't waste money on silly ideas. But we are seeing a political genius at work and all the venting in the world won't change that.
It's not so much his fakeness, as that he is a shit. And you sir are a shit enabler.
The Conservatives haven’t had a major, irreversible split since 1846 (discounting the special case of the withdrawal of the Ulster Unionists from the wider unionist grouping in the early 1970s). I don’t see that changing now.
They had a split 2 years ago.
All of the Conservative and Unionists were expelled in favour of BoZoists
I wasn't
You became a "Bozoist".
I find the shock and horror that Boris seems to be doing well, with his opponents saying it will all end in failure, quite amusing
All political careers end in failure, but the present political climate suggests Labour have the bigger problem and of course, as we all know, once Boris starts to lose his popularity he will be replaced and the party will move on
The conservative party's overwhelming desire for power, and its ability to flex its position on all kinds of issues, creates a near nervous breakdown in its opponents
Also the vaccine passport and travel changes to be announced by Boris tomorrow apply only to England, as the devolved administrations have not come to a decision
Once English residents start going on holiday and football sees limited return of spectators, the zero covid policies of Sturgeon and Drakeford are going to be greatly tested
... unless Johnson's policy ends as it did last time, and vaccinated or not we wind up in another Autumn lockdown.
Now Johnson is popular, primary because the only story in the national media is vaccination success. The vaccination success happened on Johnson's watch, and for once he was smart enough not to interfere with the experts, and it is going very well. For that hats off to Johnson. Compare and contrast with the chaos of political interference across the channel. We seldom get to hear anything else in nightly TV news. Putin will have invaded Ukraine, and we won't know about it, because we are celebrating vaccinating 30m people ( and so we should). All I am saying is there is one story, and it is wholly beneficial to the Government. That will change, but when? Next week, next month, next year or after the 2024 GE, who knows?
If you look at the contrasts of the media narrative in Wales, whereas the focus on vaccination success comes across loud and clear on say, BBC national news, on the BBC Wales news the focus is on Drakeford keeping pubs and gyms closed and mental health issues amongst the young during Covid. A focus which damages the Welsh Government. I actually think the nuanced view from Welsh media is healthier.
The contrast does help to explain why Johnson has had the perfect pandemic, and Drakeford (for example) has had a mare. Once everyone has been vaccinated, the national narrative has to become more inquisitorial, why are we still locking down? Why can't we go on a foreign holiday, despite being vaccinated? Why has John Lewis closed? Why did so many die? And why did we not notice Putin has annexed Ukraine?
Meanwhile Boris says that it's not safe for vaccinated people to meet up indoors while promoting the vaccine passport so that there won't need to be social distancing in pubs, etc.
Boris is flexible, pragmatic and determined. He has no problem at all in adopting what once would have been regarded as Labour policies in the same way as Blair had no problem at all in stealing Tory clothes. Its what winning politicians do. And he is going to win, yet again.
So we are going to see a lot more borrowing. A lot more public investment. A lot of "picking winners" some of which will prove to be duds. A lot more money spent on public services, especially health. A lot of money spent on rhe red wall seats that Labour took for granted and neglected for so long. Sir Keir will continue to look as if he has just bitten into a lemon. He will be left with nowhere to go. He is going to lose. A Hague result where an awful situation gets no worse might be the best he can hope for.
Of course a lot of people will say, well, Boris was just lucky. Again. It must make him laugh.
That's an unnecessarily long way of saying you admire his indefatigability.
As for Boris' electoral prospects, although he looks bullet proof now, he is a fake and will be found out. How? Fuck knows but he will be.
LOL. Has he ever even tried to hide his fakeness? He plays with it constantly and uses it to allow people to underestimate him.
Take a simple example, his 2 letters about Brexit one for and one against. Where do you think that story came from? It was a brilliant sleight of hand and those who loathe him cannot resist picking that scab again and again. They see insincerity and fakeness. Others see pragmatism and flexibility.
I wish we had a PM with greater personal integrity, who was less grandiose, who seemed a bit more focused and didn't waste money on silly ideas. But we are seeing a political genius at work and all the venting in the world won't change that.
It's not so much his fakeness, as that he is a shit. And you sir are a shit enabler.
A laxative eh? Well, I've been called worse and by much better.
The Conservatives haven’t had a major, irreversible split since 1846 (discounting the special case of the withdrawal of the Ulster Unionists from the wider unionist grouping in the early 1970s). I don’t see that changing now.
They had a split 2 years ago.
All of the Conservative and Unionists were expelled in favour of BoZoists
But they didn’t form a separate party. Just as they didn’t in 1867 or 1922 or 1975.
Not like Labour and the Liberals, who split more often than the Presbyterian Church.
No, I wouldn't expect a formal split in the Tory party, but that it is likely that Johnsons end (and all political careers end in failure) will come from losing popularity internally.
The hubris that we see now from Tory PB posters is much like what we saw in Mrs Thatchers third term, and just look at how that ended.
Immediately followed by another CON election win?
Yes, then a landslide Labour one.
Starmer is a Kinnock/Smith fellow, not a Blair.
To put a seasonal twist on it, he is John the Baptist, not the Messiah.
Off to work for me though...
If you are going seasonal I would compare Sir K to an aspiring Gamaliel for now, but falling somewhat short. Rather than John the Baptist. Not sure I can find a John the Baptist at present; he had a message.
In kingjamesian: "Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: "
I need to buy a specific piece of electrical kit. I can find it online, located in Germany for circa £325 or over £400 in the UK.
If I buy it online from Germany, will I be charged VAT on top as it comes into the UK?
With VAT it will be £390.
So the question must be will you pay duty, delivery or a handling charge ?
So you're saying I will definitely have to pay VAT, even if the German price includes the German equvalent of VAT? And is there no chance the courier will let it through unchecked?
If Boris chooses his time to go wisely, he may once again be lucky, and exit stage left to grateful applause and with his legacy assured. If he decides to 'go on and on', then at some point he'll come down splat. Whatever Boris's political skills, he doesn't have the power to suspend gravity. I feel at the moment a lot of what is keeping him going could be Carrie wanting to stay on as Prime Ministerial wag. I could be wrong in that, it could all be him.
The Conservatives haven’t had a major, irreversible split since 1846 (discounting the special case of the withdrawal of the Ulster Unionists from the wider unionist grouping in the early 1970s). I don’t see that changing now.
They had a split 2 years ago.
All of the Conservative and Unionists were expelled in favour of BoZoists
But they didn’t form a separate party. Just as they didn’t in 1867 or 1922 or 1975.
Not like Labour and the Liberals, who split more often than the Presbyterian Church.
No, I wouldn't expect a formal split in the Tory party, but that it is likely that Johnsons end (and all political careers end in failure) will come from losing popularity internally.
The hubris that we see now from Tory PB posters is much like what we saw in Mrs Thatchers third term, and just look at how that ended.
Immediately followed by another CON election win?
Yes, then a landslide Labour one.
Starmer is a Kinnock/Smith fellow, not a Blair.
To put a seasonal twist on it, he is John the Baptist, not the Messiah.
Off to work for me though...
Didn't John the Baptist lose his head?
He is Peter - “By the time you have been leader a year, you will have denied all knowledge of your Remain, Republican & BLM philosophies three times...”
I have Burnham down as St Peter, but with a hexagonal coat.
Boris is flexible, pragmatic and determined. He has no problem at all in adopting what once would have been regarded as Labour policies in the same way as Blair had no problem at all in stealing Tory clothes. Its what winning politicians do. And he is going to win, yet again.
So we are going to see a lot more borrowing. A lot more public investment. A lot of "picking winners" some of which will prove to be duds. A lot more money spent on public services, especially health. A lot of money spent on rhe red wall seats that Labour took for granted and neglected for so long. Sir Keir will continue to look as if he has just bitten into a lemon. He will be left with nowhere to go. He is going to lose. A Hague result where an awful situation gets no worse might be the best he can hope for.
Of course a lot of people will say, well, Boris was just lucky. Again. It must make him laugh.
That's an unnecessarily long way of saying you admire his indefatigability.
As for Boris' electoral prospects, although he looks bullet proof now, he is a fake and will be found out. How? Fuck knows but he will be.
LOL. Has he ever even tried to hide his fakeness? He plays with it constantly and uses it to allow people to underestimate him.
Take a simple example, his 2 letters about Brexit one for and one against. Where do you think that story came from? It was a brilliant sleight of hand and those who loathe him cannot resist picking that scab again and again. They see insincerity and fakeness. Others see pragmatism and flexibility.
I wish we had a PM with greater personal integrity, who was less grandiose, who seemed a bit more focused and didn't waste money on silly ideas. But we are seeing a political genius at work and all the venting in the world won't change that.
It's not so much his fakeness, as that he is a shit. And you sir are a shit enabler.
A laxative eh? Well, I've been called worse and by much better.
I'd imagine it's a common expectation for lawyers (and teachers) that they receive something shit and do something useful with it. So stirring it probably counts as a plus.
If I buy it online from Germany, will I be charged VAT on top as it comes into the UK?
Yes.
There might also be shipping delays.
I have bought a couple of things from UK suppliers who have then turned round and said the shipments were delayed because they were coming from European warehouses.
I need to buy a specific piece of electrical kit. I can find it online, located in Germany for circa £325 or over £400 in the UK.
If I buy it online from Germany, will I be charged VAT on top as it comes into the UK?
With VAT it will be £390.
So the question must be will you pay duty, delivery or a handling charge ?
So you're saying I will definitely have to pay VAT, even if the German price includes the German equvalent of VAT? And is there no chance the courier will let it through unchecked?
No, they will not miss a chance to charge a handling surchage for collecting the VAT.
DHL's random number generator absolutely rinsed me on the recent shipment of a 951 long block from the Fatherland. I only needed the fucking head!
The Conservatives haven’t had a major, irreversible split since 1846 (discounting the special case of the withdrawal of the Ulster Unionists from the wider unionist grouping in the early 1970s). I don’t see that changing now.
They had a split 2 years ago.
All of the Conservative and Unionists were expelled in favour of BoZoists
And yet, the Conservative and Unionist Party went on to win an 80 seat majority. It's almost as if those expelled had been holding the Party back....
Whilst they were popular with the media and opposition it turned out they were less popular with voters. This is obviously a lesson that Labour could learn, but what policies are voters in general not bothered by? What issues do Labour spend time talking about that lose them the opportunity to talk about something voters do care about?
I feel at the moment a lot of what is keeping him going could be Carrie wanting to stay on as Prime Ministerial wag. I could be wrong in that, it could all be him.
It could be described as poetic justice if what eventually brings him down is cheating on Carrie.
I'm no fan of Boris Johnson. Or, rather, I wasn't until about 6 months ago. He's doing brilliantly on vaccination and I'm chilled about vaccine passports.
Like most people, I get it that they're necessary for the unlock. An intellectual debate about civil liberties is, on this particular issue, a bit arcane.
Great to see that the FA Cup semis and League Cup final will have some fans back. So cool.
Have a good day everyone.
But they’re not...
We’re already unlocking, without vaccine passports, and positive tests, hospitalisations, and deaths are plunging through the floor.
They are solving a problem that doesn’t exist.
They are solving a "problem" deliberately created by the government ie the refusal to lift restrictions once cases and deaths are down and the NHS is no longer overwhelmed in order to introduce controls authoritarians in government and the civil service have long wanted.
I feel at the moment a lot of what is keeping him going could be Carrie wanting to stay on as Prime Ministerial wag. I could be wrong in that, it could all be him.
It could be described as poetic justice if what eventually brings him down is cheating on Carrie.
She's in it for the long haul after having swallowed her pride over the violin business.
The relatively austere interior fit of the A330 obviously didn't come up to FLOTUK's standards as Johnson has just used our money to buy her a new A321LR with a super lux VVIP interior fit originally commissioned by the Four Seasons hotel chain. Brexit Belle II or the Nut Nut Express.
Boris is flexible, pragmatic and determined. He has no problem at all in adopting what once would have been regarded as Labour policies in the same way as Blair had no problem at all in stealing Tory clothes. Its what winning politicians do. And he is going to win, yet again.
So we are going to see a lot more borrowing. A lot more public investment. A lot of "picking winners" some of which will prove to be duds. A lot more money spent on public services, especially health. A lot of money spent on rhe red wall seats that Labour took for granted and neglected for so long. Sir Keir will continue to look as if he has just bitten into a lemon. He will be left with nowhere to go. He is going to lose. A Hague result where an awful situation gets no worse might be the best he can hope for.
Of course a lot of people will say, well, Boris was just lucky. Again. It must make him laugh.
That's an unnecessarily long way of saying you admire his indefatigability.
As for Boris' electoral prospects, although he looks bullet proof now, he is a fake and will be found out. How? Fuck knows but he will be.
LOL. Has he ever even tried to hide his fakeness? He plays with it constantly and uses it to allow people to underestimate him.
Take a simple example, his 2 letters about Brexit one for and one against. Where do you think that story came from? It was a brilliant sleight of hand and those who loathe him cannot resist picking that scab again and again. They see insincerity and fakeness. Others see pragmatism and flexibility.
I wish we had a PM with greater personal integrity, who was less grandiose, who seemed a bit more focused and didn't waste money on silly ideas. But we are seeing a political genius at work and all the venting in the world won't change that.
It's not so much his fakeness, as that he is a shit. And you sir are a shit enabler.
He's certainly shit at enabling his fellow countrymen to see the roseate hue that surrounds BJ when he thinks about him, but then SCons have pretty much given up on persuading Scots about anything. Why bother when the UK's unique electoral system allows their views to be imposed regardless.
I feel at the moment a lot of what is keeping him going could be Carrie wanting to stay on as Prime Ministerial wag. I could be wrong in that, it could all be him.
It could be described as poetic justice if what eventually brings him down is cheating on Carrie.
Well, there's no way he can ever get rid of Carrie is there - the British public is totally forgiving of past misdemeanors but she now has to be a fixture. That must be difficult.
I'm saying more than the piece says but... I think pro-europeanism within the Tories was borne mainly of pragmatism and trade. Now we're out it's all about looking to that same pragmatism in the future, simply a question of trade - not values. Labour's problem is that the attachment to the EU amongst the membership is far more cultural. And that's a horse the leadership can't easily ride whilst having a default policy that our relationship with the EU is for the forseeable future finito. https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1378483700002852864
I feel at the moment a lot of what is keeping him going could be Carrie wanting to stay on as Prime Ministerial wag. I could be wrong in that, it could all be him.
It could be described as poetic justice if what eventually brings him down is cheating on Carrie.
She's in it for the long haul after having swallowed her pride over the violin business.
The relatively austere interior fit of the A330 obviously didn't come up to FLOTUK's standards as Johnson has just used our money to buy her a new A321LR with a super lux VVIP interior fit originally commissioned by the Four Seasons hotel chain. Brexit Belle II or the Nut Nut Express.
Do you think Carrie will hoover up all the s*** like Marina did, in order to become (honest) FLOTUK?
I need to buy a specific piece of electrical kit. I can find it online, located in Germany for circa £325 or over £400 in the UK.
If I buy it online from Germany, will I be charged VAT on top as it comes into the UK?
With VAT it will be £390.
So the question must be will you pay duty, delivery or a handling charge ?
So you're saying I will definitely have to pay VAT, even if the German price includes the German equvalent of VAT? And is there no chance the courier will let it through unchecked?
I'm not sure. There's a chance the mehrwertsteuer might be baked into the £325 and deducted before UK VAT is added on as @eek points out. In terms of odds I'd go for the German purchase as you may get it for less than £400, and likely not much more if you're unlucky.
If I buy it online from Germany, will I be charged VAT on top as it comes into the UK?
Yes.
There might also be shipping delays.
I have bought a couple of things from UK suppliers who have then turned round and said the shipments were delayed because they were coming from European warehouses.
Mr. Pulpstar, could be handled, perhaps, by a desire for better relations rather than a full-blown return to the EU, with the latter something pencilled in if polling shows an outright majority want it?
The Conservatives haven’t had a major, irreversible split since 1846 (discounting the special case of the withdrawal of the Ulster Unionists from the wider unionist grouping in the early 1970s). I don’t see that changing now.
They had a split 2 years ago.
All of the Conservative and Unionists were expelled in favour of BoZoists
I wasn't
You became a "Bozoist".
I find the shock and horror that Boris seems to be doing well, with his opponents saying it will all end in failure, quite amusing
All political careers end in failure, but the present political climate suggests Labour have the bigger problem and of course, as we all know, once Boris starts to lose his popularity he will be replaced and the party will move on
The conservative party's overwhelming desire for power, and its ability to flex its position on all kinds of issues, creates a near nervous breakdown in its opponents
Also the vaccine passport and travel changes to be announced by Boris tomorrow apply only to England, as the devolved administrations have not come to a decision
Once English residents start going on holiday and football sees limited return of spectators, the zero covid policies of Sturgeon and Drakeford are going to be greatly tested
On the dreaded vaccine passports - yes, the proposal is confined to England, so let's do the maths and see - *IF* Starmer decides to vote against them - how many Conservative rebels might be needed to defeat them.
I make the abstentions as follows: all the Northern Irish MPs, the various Welsh and Scots Nats, two of the four independents (who are ex-Plaid and ex-SNP,) plus Mr Speaker and two vacant seats, which makes 72 in total. That gives the Government an effective majority of 152, which means that, if all the remaining opposition party members attempt to vote it down, 77 Tory rebels are needed to veto the measure.
Thus, for it not to be imposed we require three things: for the Government's legal advice to indicate that vaccine passports cannot be imposed without primary legislation; a lot more Tory rebels than there are at the moment (media reports that the numbers who have signed the pledge against it are only in the 40s); and we need Starmer actually to oppose, rather than fence sitting or totally collapsing in a wet mushy heap.
In short: if the Government is determined to bring in vaccine passports then the bar that needs to be cleared to stop them is, alas, very high indeed.
Out of interest - was the Brexiter plan all along to return to some form of English national identity, by turbo charging the breakup of the UK?
Yes.
That was why Cameron referred to them as Little Englanders.
He was right.
Cameron was lashing out at those who had given him a majority of seats, because they had the temerity to suggest that his "renegotiation" with Brussels was bobbins.
The same "renegotiation" that the Remain campaign put on the Verboten list. Because it was bobbins.
Anyway, England won't be made little by Brexit. Britain maybe. Cameron would have been better off calling us "Little Britons". He could have said that put a point to Brexiteers and they become "Yeah but no but yeah but no but...." He could have said that give them Brexit and they'll go all Andy Pipkin on you, saying "Don't want it..." He didn't use humour against his opponents. He just got all peevish. And really, really pissed them off.
I'm saying more than the piece says but... I think pro-europeanism within the Tories was borne mainly of pragmatism and trade. Now we're out it's all about looking to that same pragmatism in the future, simply a question of trade - not values. Labour's problem is that the attachment to the EU amongst the membership is far more cultural. And that's a horse the leadership can't easily ride whilst having a default policy that our relationship with the EU is for the forseeable future finito. https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1378483700002852864
The article says "YouGov survey found 59 per cent thought they should campaign to rejoin the EU – compared to just 15 per cent who said they should not."
I'm astonished if that poll is correct. I wonder how many people (and where) YouGov asked. What was the specific question asked? Campaign to rejoin immediately or at some point in the future?
On a more general note I do wonder if the Putin model is closer than the Trump one to how BJ sees getting his shit done, without the assassination of the state's enemies, internal & external, of course. Though maybe Hunky Dunky should be worried about that sealed bottle of expensive fragrance that he found on the doorstep...
The Conservatives haven’t had a major, irreversible split since 1846 (discounting the special case of the withdrawal of the Ulster Unionists from the wider unionist grouping in the early 1970s). I don’t see that changing now.
They had a split 2 years ago.
All of the Conservative and Unionists were expelled in favour of BoZoists
I wasn't
You became a "Bozoist".
I find the shock and horror that Boris seems to be doing well, with his opponents saying it will all end in failure, quite amusing
All political careers end in failure, but the present political climate suggests Labour have the bigger problem and of course, as we all know, once Boris starts to lose his popularity he will be replaced and the party will move on
The conservative party's overwhelming desire for power, and its ability to flex its position on all kinds of issues, creates a near nervous breakdown in its opponents
Also the vaccine passport and travel changes to be announced by Boris tomorrow apply only to England, as the devolved administrations have not come to a decision
Once English residents start going on holiday and football sees limited return of spectators, the zero covid policies of Sturgeon and Drakeford are going to be greatly tested
... unless Johnson's policy ends as it did last time, and vaccinated or not we wind up in another Autumn lockdown.
Now Johnson is popular, primary because the only story in the national media is vaccination success. The vaccination success happened on Johnson's watch, and for once he was smart enough not to interfere with the experts, and it is going very well. For that hats off to Johnson. Compare and contrast with the chaos of political interference across the channel. We seldom get to hear anything else in nightly TV news. Putin will have invaded Ukraine, and we won't know about it, because we are celebrating vaccinating 30m people ( and so we should). All I am saying is there is one story, and it is wholly beneficial to the Government. That will change, but when? Next week, next month, next year or after the 2024 GE, who knows?
If you look at the contrasts of the media narrative in Wales, whereas the focus on vaccination success comes across loud and clear on say, BBC national news, on the BBC Wales news the focus is on Drakeford keeping pubs and gyms closed and mental health issues amongst the young during Covid. A focus which damages the Welsh Government. I actually think the nuanced view from Welsh media is healthier.
The contrast does help to explain why Johnson has had the perfect pandemic, and Drakeford (for example) has had a mare. Once everyone has been vaccinated, the national narrative has to become more inquisitorial, why are we still locking down? Why can't we go on a foreign holiday, despite being vaccinated? Why has John Lewis closed? Why did so many die? And why did we not notice Putin has annexed Ukraine?
I'm no fan of Boris Johnson. Or, rather, I wasn't until about 6 months ago. He's doing brilliantly on vaccination and I'm chilled about vaccine passports.
Like most people, I get it that they're necessary for the unlock. An intellectual debate about civil liberties is, on this particular issue, a bit arcane.
Great to see that the FA Cup semis and League Cup final will have some fans back. So cool.
Have a good day everyone.
But they’re not...
We’re already unlocking, without vaccine passports, and positive tests, hospitalisations, and deaths are plunging through the floor.
They are solving a problem that doesn’t exist.
They are solving a "problem" deliberately created by the government ie the refusal to lift restrictions once cases and deaths are down and the NHS is no longer overwhelmed in order to introduce controls authoritarians in government and the civil service have long wanted.
Alternatively, they are using passports as a nudge to those refusing the vaccine. "This is how life will be for you - if you continue to refuse."
It's a worthy aim. Because the people who are anti-vax-passports are giving no alternative to stop these folk from being the Covid-fodder for a third wave.
I'm saying more than the piece says but... I think pro-europeanism within the Tories was borne mainly of pragmatism and trade. Now we're out it's all about looking to that same pragmatism in the future, simply a question of trade - not values. Labour's problem is that the attachment to the EU amongst the membership is far more cultural. And that's a horse the leadership can't easily ride whilst having a default policy that our relationship with the EU is for the forseeable future finito. https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1378483700002852864
The article says "YouGov survey found 59 per cent thought they should campaign to rejoin the EU – compared to just 15 per cent who said they should not."
I'm astonished if that poll is correct. I wonder how many people (and where) YouGov asked. What was the specific question asked? Campaign to rejoin immediately or at some point in the future?
Labour membership. Not the general public, or Labour voters even.
Apologies if this has been covered before, but could anyone confirm or correct the following.
I remember hearing a Conservative politician (maybe John Redwood) saying that the SNP voluntarily exclude themselves from Westminster votes on matters that don't affect Scotland. I'm guessing that "don't affect" means matters like health and education that are devolved to the Scottish Parliament. If so, that adds an awkward twist to ...
" Labour to take power at the next election as part of a rainbow alliance "
Given that the SNP are likely to bring 40+ seats to that alliance, Starmer could find himself with a secure majority for all-UK issues and regular defeats everywhere else.
The Conservatives haven’t had a major, irreversible split since 1846 (discounting the special case of the withdrawal of the Ulster Unionists from the wider unionist grouping in the early 1970s). I don’t see that changing now.
They had a split 2 years ago.
All of the Conservative and Unionists were expelled in favour of BoZoists
I wasn't
You became a "Bozoist".
I find the shock and horror that Boris seems to be doing well, with his opponents saying it will all end in failure, quite amusing
All political careers end in failure, but the present political climate suggests Labour have the bigger problem and of course, as we all know, once Boris starts to lose his popularity he will be replaced and the party will move on
The conservative party's overwhelming desire for power, and its ability to flex its position on all kinds of issues, creates a near nervous breakdown in its opponents
Also the vaccine passport and travel changes to be announced by Boris tomorrow apply only to England, as the devolved administrations have not come to a decision
Once English residents start going on holiday and football sees limited return of spectators, the zero covid policies of Sturgeon and Drakeford are going to be greatly tested
On the dreaded vaccine passports - yes, the proposal is confined to England, so let's do the maths and see - *IF* Starmer decides to vote against them - how many Conservative rebels might be needed to defeat them.
I make the abstentions as follows: all the Northern Irish MPs, the various Welsh and Scots Nats, two of the four independents (who are ex-Plaid and ex-SNP,) plus Mr Speaker and two vacant seats, which makes 72 in total. That gives the Government an effective majority of 152, which means that, if all the remaining opposition party members attempt to vote it down, 77 Tory rebels are needed to veto the measure.
Thus, for it not to be imposed we require three things: for the Government's legal advice to indicate that vaccine passports cannot be imposed without primary legislation; a lot more Tory rebels than there are at the moment (media reports that the numbers who have signed the pledge against it are only in the 40s); and we need Starmer actually to oppose, rather than fence sitting or totally collapsing in a wet mushy heap.
In short: if the Government is determined to bring in vaccine passports then the bar that needs to be cleared to stop them is, alas, very high indeed.
And judging by Sky and BBC this morning, Boris's proposals are very popular including from a night club venue in Liverpool of all places
I'm no fan of Boris Johnson. Or, rather, I wasn't until about 6 months ago. He's doing brilliantly on vaccination and I'm chilled about vaccine passports.
Like most people, I get it that they're necessary for the unlock. An intellectual debate about civil liberties is, on this particular issue, a bit arcane.
Great to see that the FA Cup semis and League Cup final will have some fans back. So cool.
Have a good day everyone.
But they’re not...
We’re already unlocking, without vaccine passports, and positive tests, hospitalisations, and deaths are plunging through the floor.
They are solving a problem that doesn’t exist.
They are solving a "problem" deliberately created by the government ie the refusal to lift restrictions once cases and deaths are down and the NHS is no longer overwhelmed in order to introduce controls authoritarians in government and the civil service have long wanted.
Alternatively, they are using passports as a nudge to those refusing the vaccine. "This is how life will be for you - if you continue to refuse."
It's a worthy aim. Because the people who are anti-vax-passports are giving no alternative to stop these folk from being the Covid-fodder for a third wave.
We're talking about 5% of people. We'll be well, well beyond herd immunity by then. This might make sense on France or somewhere similar, it doesn't in the UK.
I'm no fan of Boris Johnson. Or, rather, I wasn't until about 6 months ago. He's doing brilliantly on vaccination and I'm chilled about vaccine passports.
Like most people, I get it that they're necessary for the unlock. An intellectual debate about civil liberties is, on this particular issue, a bit arcane.
Great to see that the FA Cup semis and League Cup final will have some fans back. So cool.
Have a good day everyone.
But they’re not...
We’re already unlocking, without vaccine passports, and positive tests, hospitalisations, and deaths are plunging through the floor.
They are solving a problem that doesn’t exist.
They are solving a "problem" deliberately created by the government ie the refusal to lift restrictions once cases and deaths are down and the NHS is no longer overwhelmed in order to introduce controls authoritarians in government and the civil service have long wanted.
Alternatively, they are using passports as a nudge to those refusing the vaccine. "This is how life will be for you - if you continue to refuse."
It's a worthy aim. Because the people who are anti-vax-passports are giving no alternative to stop these folk from being the Covid-fodder for a third wave.
If they want to nudge the young and others to get the vaccine make it available to them or pay them some money to take it. Not we'll imprison you in your homes unless you have it.
But in any case, we don't make other vaccines mandatory - nor do we stop people who don't take them from accessing services. See, for instance, MMR. And once herd immunity is achieved it really does not matter if a few people don't have the vaccine. So the only solution is to keep up with the vaccination programme, develop a booster programme and can this stupid, illiberal and divisive idea.
I'm no fan of Boris Johnson. Or, rather, I wasn't until about 6 months ago. He's doing brilliantly on vaccination and I'm chilled about vaccine passports.
Like most people, I get it that they're necessary for the unlock. An intellectual debate about civil liberties is, on this particular issue, a bit arcane.
Great to see that the FA Cup semis and League Cup final will have some fans back. So cool.
Have a good day everyone.
But they’re not...
We’re already unlocking, without vaccine passports, and positive tests, hospitalisations, and deaths are plunging through the floor.
They are solving a problem that doesn’t exist.
They are solving a "problem" deliberately created by the government ie the refusal to lift restrictions once cases and deaths are down and the NHS is no longer overwhelmed in order to introduce controls authoritarians in government and the civil service have long wanted.
Alternatively, they are using passports as a nudge to those refusing the vaccine. "This is how life will be for you - if you continue to refuse."
It's a worthy aim. Because the people who are anti-vax-passports are giving no alternative to stop these folk from being the Covid-fodder for a third wave.
Which might be a reasonable stance if we had france levels of vaccine delinquency. Polling on whether you will get vaccinated indicates there is no problem to solve in this respect. Sorry to me at least this seems more likely a case of some in the home office civil service taking the advice "never let a crisis goto waste" to push the id card agenda they have been drooling over for decades
I'm no fan of Boris Johnson. Or, rather, I wasn't until about 6 months ago. He's doing brilliantly on vaccination and I'm chilled about vaccine passports.
Like most people, I get it that they're necessary for the unlock. An intellectual debate about civil liberties is, on this particular issue, a bit arcane.
Great to see that the FA Cup semis and League Cup final will have some fans back. So cool.
Have a good day everyone.
But they’re not...
We’re already unlocking, without vaccine passports, and positive tests, hospitalisations, and deaths are plunging through the floor.
They are solving a problem that doesn’t exist.
They are solving a "problem" deliberately created by the government ie the refusal to lift restrictions once cases and deaths are down and the NHS is no longer overwhelmed in order to introduce controls authoritarians in government and the civil service have long wanted.
Alternatively, they are using passports as a nudge to those refusing the vaccine. "This is how life will be for you - if you continue to refuse."
It's a worthy aim. Because the people who are anti-vax-passports are giving no alternative to stop these folk from being the Covid-fodder for a third wave.
I wonder how many over-50s will be queuing up at that comedy club in Liverpool.
The most interesting thing I notice from that chart is that Heath is the only Conservative leader of the opposition to lose net seats, while five Labour leaders have that distinction (Corbyn, Miliband, Foot, Gaitskill, Attlee).
The pendulum does not inevitably swing to the opposition.
On a more general note I do wonder if the Putin model is closer than the Trump one to how BJ sees getting his shit done, without the assassination of the state's enemies, internal & external, of course. Though maybe Hunky Dunky should be worried about that sealed bottle of expensive fragrance that he found on the doorstep...
Is there much real difference between Putin and Trump. Both utterly contemptuous of democracy.
And the idea that a British PM - let alone a Conservative one - should be admiring of Putin is..... well I would say surprising but given the amount of Russian money flowing into Tory party coffers perhaps not that surprising at all.
Apologies if this has been covered before, but could anyone confirm or correct the following.
I remember hearing a Conservative politician (maybe John Redwood) saying that the SNP voluntarily exclude themselves from Westminster votes on matters that don't affect Scotland. I'm guessing that "don't affect" means matters like health and education that are devolved to the Scottish Parliament. If so, that adds an awkward twist to ...
" Labour to take power at the next election as part of a rainbow alliance "
Given that the SNP are likely to bring 40+ seats to that alliance, Starmer could find himself with a secure majority for all-UK issues and regular defeats everywhere else.
And first and foremost an independence referendum as a condition of any rainbow alliance
The Conservatives haven’t had a major, irreversible split since 1846 (discounting the special case of the withdrawal of the Ulster Unionists from the wider unionist grouping in the early 1970s). I don’t see that changing now.
They had a split 2 years ago.
All of the Conservative and Unionists were expelled in favour of BoZoists
But they didn’t form a separate party. Just as they didn’t in 1867 or 1922 or 1975.
Not like Labour and the Liberals, who split more often than the Presbyterian Church.
No, I wouldn't expect a formal split in the Tory party, but that it is likely that Johnsons end (and all political careers end in failure) will come from losing popularity internally.
The hubris that we see now from Tory PB posters is much like what we saw in Mrs Thatchers third term, and just look at how that ended.
Immediately followed by another CON election win?
Yes, then a landslide Labour one.
Starmer is a Kinnock/Smith fellow, not a Blair.
To put a seasonal twist on it, he is John the Baptist, not the Messiah.
Off to work for me though...
Didn't John the Baptist lose his head?
As I recall, the "Messiah" got crucified on December 12, 2019.
I'm saying more than the piece says but... I think pro-europeanism within the Tories was borne mainly of pragmatism and trade. Now we're out it's all about looking to that same pragmatism in the future, simply a question of trade - not values. Labour's problem is that the attachment to the EU amongst the membership is far more cultural. And that's a horse the leadership can't easily ride whilst having a default policy that our relationship with the EU is for the forseeable future finito. https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1378483700002852864
The article says "YouGov survey found 59 per cent thought they should campaign to rejoin the EU – compared to just 15 per cent who said they should not."
I'm astonished if that poll is correct. I wonder how many people (and where) YouGov asked. What was the specific question asked? Campaign to rejoin immediately or at some point in the future?
I am not particularly surprised. In a recent poll 31% of the population want to rejoin and another 21% want a closer relationship (?EEA). Pretty resilient considering the EU vaccine fiasco.
The Lexiteers were mostly Trots and are the ones who have left the party willingly or by expulsion. Not surprisingly the Centrist social democrat factions are strongly pro EU.
I don't think Rejoin is a realistic objective in 2024 though probably renegotiation to reduce non tariff barriers by signing up to EU agricultural and food regulation or even EEA may well be. I expect Lib Dems to go EEA.
The most interesting thing I notice from that chart is that Heath is the only Conservative leader of the opposition to lose net seats, while five Labour leaders have that distinction (Corbyn, Miliband, Foot, Gaitskill, Attlee).
The pendulum does not inevitably swing to the opposition.
As a non partisan, it is remarkable and surprising how many well informed commentators on here, of both parties, continually assume the battle between the Tories and Labour is a symmetric, evenly balanced battle when all the evidence is that the Tories have a significant "natural" advantage.
On topic, Starmer is not doing badly because he is a poor leader, he is doing averagely because he is an average Labour leader, and the govt are popular from vaccines and yes Brexit (only with Brexiteers), and the public are reluctant to hold the govt to account during a pandemic.
By 2024 who knows what part if any vaccines will play, Brexit could be a roaring success, absolute disaster or long forgotten, and the public are very likely to be more willing to judge the govt than they are now. The Tories should still be favourites, not at all because of Johnsons amazing leadership, Brexit success, vaccine success or Starmer being terrible, simply because this far from an election they nearly always should be favourites.
Been listening to Peter Oborne holding forth on R4.
Does anyone have the book yet?
His chosen 'sample Boris lie' was "no country in the world has a functioning track and trace system. (HoC on 23/6/2020)" Oborne: "At that point quite a few countries had exactly that."
Fullfact: "Multiple countries have launched apps, including Germany, France, Australia, Singapore and Latvia. However uptake has been fairly low, and it’s too early to say whether they will be effective in helping combat Covid-19" https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-track-and-trace-app-boris-johnson/
Oborne is on a sticky wicket if that's his slam dunk.
(Full disclosure: personally I think PO is a dick.)
Seems a ludicrous 'Boris lie' to choose from the vast field available.
He is on "misleading the Hoc", copy sent to the Speaker etc.
I wonder if PO will also go on "lied to the Queen about proroguing Parliament".
Apologies if this has been covered before, but could anyone confirm or correct the following.
I remember hearing a Conservative politician (maybe John Redwood) saying that the SNP voluntarily exclude themselves from Westminster votes on matters that don't affect Scotland. I'm guessing that "don't affect" means matters like health and education that are devolved to the Scottish Parliament. If so, that adds an awkward twist to ...
" Labour to take power at the next election as part of a rainbow alliance "
Given that the SNP are likely to bring 40+ seats to that alliance, Starmer could find himself with a secure majority for all-UK issues and regular defeats everywhere else.
You underestimate the flexibility of SNP, well principles seems a bit strong, but anyway. So in the examples you have given of health and education the Barnett consequentials give them an interest and indeed a one way ratchet towards ever higher public spending.
I'm no fan of Boris Johnson. Or, rather, I wasn't until about 6 months ago. He's doing brilliantly on vaccination and I'm chilled about vaccine passports.
Like most people, I get it that they're necessary for the unlock. An intellectual debate about civil liberties is, on this particular issue, a bit arcane.
Great to see that the FA Cup semis and League Cup final will have some fans back. So cool.
Have a good day everyone.
But they’re not...
We’re already unlocking, without vaccine passports, and positive tests, hospitalisations, and deaths are plunging through the floor.
They are solving a problem that doesn’t exist.
They are solving a "problem" deliberately created by the government ie the refusal to lift restrictions once cases and deaths are down and the NHS is no longer overwhelmed in order to introduce controls authoritarians in government and the civil service have long wanted.
Alternatively, they are using passports as a nudge to those refusing the vaccine. "This is how life will be for you - if you continue to refuse."
It's a worthy aim. Because the people who are anti-vax-passports are giving no alternative to stop these folk from being the Covid-fodder for a third wave.
Leaving aside the issue of whether or not trying to force the refuseniks to accept is either (a) ethically desirable or (b) likely to be effective - because it might just as easily cause a load of them to dig their heels in as give up - it's probably unnecessary in any event. There's every indication that the vaccines have been wildly popular amongst all the groups to which they have been offered so far, such that a final uptake of 95% amongst the over 50s is to be expected. Consequently, even if 15% of all adults under 50 are not inoculated, that would still give overall coverage of 90% of the adult population.
Now, given differential take-up across the country (related primarily to ethnicity,) that would imply that we would be left with coverage well in excess of 90% in most areas, which is more than enough to break those chains of transmission and crush the virus. And the answer, might one venture to suggest, to stubborn levels of hesitancy amongst specific groups such as black African people is not to contrive a mechanism that stops them doing things (which will only lead to unnecessary controversies about racism,) but to put in the hard slog to convince them. Which is what, reportedly, is now being done, with public health teams resorting to going door to door with vaccination kits in low take-up neighbourhoods.
In the current circumstances, vaccine passports are not the answer to anything, save for enabling a gradual return to international travel. I've nothing against the suggestion that we should develop this kind of technology in case we may need it to help with a crisis like this in the future (though pray God the next one comes along after we've all died of old age,) but domestically the epidemic is almost over. Their introduction at this late stage of the game is nothing to do with the public health benefits and everything to do with authoritarian surveillance and control.
I'm no fan of Boris Johnson. Or, rather, I wasn't until about 6 months ago. He's doing brilliantly on vaccination and I'm chilled about vaccine passports.
Like most people, I get it that they're necessary for the unlock. An intellectual debate about civil liberties is, on this particular issue, a bit arcane.
Great to see that the FA Cup semis and League Cup final will have some fans back. So cool.
Have a good day everyone.
But they’re not...
We’re already unlocking, without vaccine passports, and positive tests, hospitalisations, and deaths are plunging through the floor.
They are solving a problem that doesn’t exist.
They are solving a "problem" deliberately created by the government ie the refusal to lift restrictions once cases and deaths are down and the NHS is no longer overwhelmed in order to introduce controls authoritarians in government and the civil service have long wanted.
Alternatively, they are using passports as a nudge to those refusing the vaccine. "This is how life will be for you - if you continue to refuse."
It's a worthy aim. Because the people who are anti-vax-passports are giving no alternative to stop these folk from being the Covid-fodder for a third wave.
If they want to nudge the young and others to get the vaccine make it available to them or pay them some money to take it. Not we'll imprison you in your homes unless you have it.
But in any case, we don't make other vaccines mandatory - nor do we stop people who don't take them from accessing services. See, for instance, MMR. And once herd immunity is achieved it really does not matter if a few people don't have the vaccine. So the only solution is to keep up with the vaccination programme, develop a booster programme and can this stupid, illiberal and divisive idea.
Indeed now I have been vaccinated against covid I am probably endangered more by people with a lack of MMR jabs given I grew up before MMR and that I am and adult male that never had mumps as a kid. Given pubs pre covid were always full of crotch goblins I am betting I have mixed with some that skipped MMR
I feel at the moment a lot of what is keeping him going could be Carrie wanting to stay on as Prime Ministerial wag. I could be wrong in that, it could all be him.
It could be described as poetic justice if what eventually brings him down is cheating on Carrie.
She surely knows about you know what already. But wants to stay in number ten
I look forward to the Govt explaining why vaccine passports will be necessary for access to pubs, but not for gathering in private homes. For nightclubs but not for student parties.
The idea makes no sense, unless restrictions remain on every area of our lives.
I'm no fan of Boris Johnson. Or, rather, I wasn't until about 6 months ago. He's doing brilliantly on vaccination and I'm chilled about vaccine passports.
Like most people, I get it that they're necessary for the unlock. An intellectual debate about civil liberties is, on this particular issue, a bit arcane.
Great to see that the FA Cup semis and League Cup final will have some fans back. So cool.
Have a good day everyone.
But they’re not...
We’re already unlocking, without vaccine passports, and positive tests, hospitalisations, and deaths are plunging through the floor.
They are solving a problem that doesn’t exist.
They are solving a "problem" deliberately created by the government ie the refusal to lift restrictions once cases and deaths are down and the NHS is no longer overwhelmed in order to introduce controls authoritarians in government and the civil service have long wanted.
Alternatively, they are using passports as a nudge to those refusing the vaccine. "This is how life will be for you - if you continue to refuse."
It's a worthy aim. Because the people who are anti-vax-passports are giving no alternative to stop these folk from being the Covid-fodder for a third wave.
If they want to nudge the young and others to get the vaccine make it available to them or pay them some money to take it. Not we'll imprison you in your homes unless you have it.
But in any case, we don't make other vaccines mandatory - nor do we stop people who don't take them from accessing services. See, for instance, MMR. And once herd immunity is achieved it really does not matter if a few people don't have the vaccine. So the only solution is to keep up with the vaccination programme, develop a booster programme and can this stupid, illiberal and divisive idea.
Indeed now I have been vaccinated against covid I am probably endangered more by people with a lack of MMR jabs given I grew up before MMR and that I am and adult male that never had mumps as a kid. Given pubs pre covid were always full of crotch goblins I am betting I have mixed with some that skipped MMR
Well, indeed. Daughter has stayed free of Covid but, despite having the MMR vaccine as a child, caught mumps last year just before Covid became a thing. And a most unpleasant experience it was too.
Re: vaccine passports. What happens in six months when the effects allegedly start to wear off? Everyone who has been happily going about flashing their passport has to go back to having tests again?
I look forward to the Govt explaining why vaccine passports will be necessary for access to pubs, but not for gathering in private homes. For nightclubs but not for student parties.
The idea makes no sense, unless restrictions remain on every area of our lives.
Yes. As per my post earlier. He says vaccinated people can't meet indoors but we need vaccine passports to avoid social distancing in the pub.
On the topic of future elections, if Tories believe anything they’ve been advocating at the core of their political beliefs for decades, then they must be really scared about what is to come. Or they might have to consider that it was all nonsense.
I look forward to the Govt explaining why vaccine passports will be necessary for access to pubs, but not for gathering in private homes. For nightclubs but not for student parties.
The idea makes no sense, unless restrictions remain on every area of our lives.
If the list published in The Sun, which we were talking about last night, is at all accurate then it looks like the excuse they've decided to go for is that mass attendance events (theatres, cinemas, nightclubs, football grounds) are somehow too hazardous to be allowed to happen without papers. Retail, transportation and hospitality are being exempted.
Of course, in point of fact a crowded tube train or boozer is, in theory, rather more hazardous than a trip to the theatre or a day at the races, but logic doesn't come into any of this. The entire point of the scheme is to impose ID cards by the back door.
The legacy bequeathed to Labour after the 2019 election was down to Starmer as well as Corbyn. If Labour had backed May’s deal we would have ended up with something similar to EEA membership with the added benefit to Labour that the Conservative Party would have split. The insistence by Starmer that we have a second referendum, with the hope that a weary electorate would reverse the 2016 vote, led to deadlock in parliament. Even those who had backed Remain in 2016 thought this was unfair, disrespectful to the Leave majority and just continuing the uncertainty. My view is that Starmer is a poor strategist and not the person to lead Labour to victory. Like they said about Labour before Blair, the next Labour PM might not be an MP yet.
Those responses suggest there still is an interesting twist, along the lines of ... if Starmer is difficult about an independence referendum then the SNP's principles will compel them to stay out of all manner of Westminster votes, but if he gives them what they want then their principles would compel them to support the sound government of the entire country.
I look forward to the Govt explaining why vaccine passports will be necessary for access to pubs, but not for gathering in private homes. For nightclubs but not for student parties.
The idea makes no sense, unless restrictions remain on every area of our lives.
If the list published in The Sun, which we were talking about last night, is at all accurate then it looks like the excuse they've decided to go for is that mass attendance events (theatres, cinemas, nightclubs, football grounds) are somehow too hazardous to be allowed to happen without papers. Retail, transportation and hospitality are being exempted.
Of course, in point of fact a crowded tube train or boozer is, in theory, rather more hazardous than a trip to the theatre or a day at the races, but logic doesn't come into any of this. The entire point of the scheme is to impose ID cards by the back door.
Anyone who has commuted on the Tube will tell you that it is where you get ill.
I feel at the moment a lot of what is keeping him going could be Carrie wanting to stay on as Prime Ministerial wag. I could be wrong in that, it could all be him.
It could be described as poetic justice if what eventually brings him down is cheating on Carrie.
She surely knows about you know what already. But wants to stay in number ten
She should be forced under duress to stay there and enjoy "our" wallpaper, whatever the circumstances.
Boris is flexible, pragmatic and determined. He has no problem at all in adopting what once would have been regarded as Labour policies in the same way as Blair had no problem at all in stealing Tory clothes. Its what winning politicians do. And he is going to win, yet again.
So we are going to see a lot more borrowing. A lot more public investment. A lot of "picking winners" some of which will prove to be duds. A lot more money spent on public services, especially health. A lot of money spent on rhe red wall seats that Labour took for granted and neglected for so long. Sir Keir will continue to look as if he has just bitten into a lemon. He will be left with nowhere to go. He is going to lose. A Hague result where an awful situation gets no worse might be the best he can hope for.
Of course a lot of people will say, well, Boris was just lucky. Again. It must make him laugh.
Boris was lucky: extremely lucky given the fate of Jeffrey Archer.
I look forward to the Govt explaining why vaccine passports will be necessary for access to pubs, but not for gathering in private homes. For nightclubs but not for student parties.
The idea makes no sense, unless restrictions remain on every area of our lives.
If the list published in The Sun, which we were talking about last night, is at all accurate then it looks like the excuse they've decided to go for is that mass attendance events (theatres, cinemas, nightclubs, football grounds) are somehow too hazardous to be allowed to happen without papers. Retail, transportation and hospitality are being exempted.
Of course, in point of fact a crowded tube train or boozer is, in theory, rather more hazardous than a trip to the theatre or a day at the races, but logic doesn't come into any of this. The entire point of the scheme is to impose ID cards by the back door.
It’s the equivalent of last year when they were banning “non-essential” activity, even when extreme precautionary measure were put it place to make things relatively safe. But pretty much giving “essential” activity (pretty much anything that they couldn’t find ways to legally distinguish from places selling bread, water and essential vitamins) a free pass whilst paying lipservice to social distancing.
I look forward to the Govt explaining why vaccine passports will be necessary for access to pubs, but not for gathering in private homes. For nightclubs but not for student parties.
The idea makes no sense, unless restrictions remain on every area of our lives.
If the list published in The Sun, which we were talking about last night, is at all accurate then it looks like the excuse they've decided to go for is that mass attendance events (theatres, cinemas, nightclubs, football grounds) are somehow too hazardous to be allowed to happen without papers. Retail, transportation and hospitality are being exempted.
Of course, in point of fact a crowded tube train or boozer is, in theory, rather more hazardous than a trip to the theatre or a day at the races, but logic doesn't come into any of this. The entire point of the scheme is to impose ID cards by the back door.
Anyone who has commuted on the Tube will tell you that it is where you get ill.
Labour must oppose this entire stupid plan.
Labour and Starmer are too weak. Starmer isn't a leader, he's a follower. He's looking at the same polls posted in this topic that 62% are in favour and rowing back his initial opposition. It's leadership by focus group.
But everyone assured us after the last one that Salmond's new baby had been strangled at birth? 3%, LOL!
Our regular reminder that all opinion polls are unreliable, but it's a really bad idea to consider them in isolation.
Is 6% what you want when your party has the news headlines?
What did you expect? 60%? It's not at all bad from a standing start, and already getting into the territory where list seats are within their grasp.
HOWEVER - let's wait and see what happens as the election draws closer, and we have more numbers. My instinct is that the Farage Effect applies here: that the Alba Party will have a relatively low ceiling of support, and yet sufficient Salmond devotees exist to get it into Parliament. But we shall see.
Boris is flexible, pragmatic and determined. He has no problem at all in adopting what once would have been regarded as Labour policies in the same way as Blair had no problem at all in stealing Tory clothes. Its what winning politicians do. And he is going to win, yet again.
So we are going to see a lot more borrowing. A lot more public investment. A lot of "picking winners" some of which will prove to be duds. A lot more money spent on public services, especially health. A lot of money spent on rhe red wall seats that Labour took for granted and neglected for so long. Sir Keir will continue to look as if he has just bitten into a lemon. He will be left with nowhere to go. He is going to lose. A Hague result where an awful situation gets no worse might be the best he can hope for.
Of course a lot of people will say, well, Boris was just lucky. Again. It must make him laugh.
Boris was lucky: extremely lucky given the fate of Jeffrey Archer.
I read on here about Johnson's strategic invincibility and Starmer's relative ineptitude. I can't see either. I read about the economic bounce back to considerably better than 2019 levels, and, as a student of economics, I don't understand how or why?
I look forward to the Govt explaining why vaccine passports will be necessary for access to pubs, but not for gathering in private homes. For nightclubs but not for student parties.
The idea makes no sense, unless restrictions remain on every area of our lives.
If the list published in The Sun, which we were talking about last night, is at all accurate then it looks like the excuse they've decided to go for is that mass attendance events (theatres, cinemas, nightclubs, football grounds) are somehow too hazardous to be allowed to happen without papers. Retail, transportation and hospitality are being exempted.
Of course, in point of fact a crowded tube train or boozer is, in theory, rather more hazardous than a trip to the theatre or a day at the races, but logic doesn't come into any of this. The entire point of the scheme is to impose ID cards by the back door.
The capacity in some pubs certainly can approach the definition of “mass attendance” and will involve far more mixing/mingling than your average trip to the theatre, or indeed football match!
I look forward to the Govt explaining why vaccine passports will be necessary for access to pubs, but not for gathering in private homes. For nightclubs but not for student parties.
The idea makes no sense, unless restrictions remain on every area of our lives.
If the list published in The Sun, which we were talking about last night, is at all accurate then it looks like the excuse they've decided to go for is that mass attendance events (theatres, cinemas, nightclubs, football grounds) are somehow too hazardous to be allowed to happen without papers. Retail, transportation and hospitality are being exempted.
Of course, in point of fact a crowded tube train or boozer is, in theory, rather more hazardous than a trip to the theatre or a day at the races, but logic doesn't come into any of this. The entire point of the scheme is to impose ID cards by the back door.
It’s the equivalent of last year when they were banning “non-essential” activity, even when extreme precautionary measure were put it place to make things relatively safe. But pretty much giving “essential” activity (pretty much anything that they couldn’t find ways to legally distinguish from places selling bread, water and essential vitamins) a free pass whilst paying lipservice to social distancing.
With the result that the poor old hospitality trade was closed down for months at a time, whilst most people were getting sick in care homes, hospitals and supermarkets. Much of lockdown may well have been more to do with being seen to do something than with making more than token gains in controlling the disease, but the arguments about that will continue for years after this is over and no consensus will ever be reached.
But everyone assured us after the last one that Salmond's new baby had been strangled at birth? 3%, LOL!
Our regular reminder that all opinion polls are unreliable, but it's a really bad idea to consider them in isolation.
Yes but the previous poll was immediately after Salmond's announcement - this is upto date
Strange things are happening in Scotland with a super indyref2 majority virtually assured but at the same time the yes/no is 51/49 in this poll, and more likely 50/50, and most Scots do not want indyref2 for 5 years.
In my experience of Scotland and indeed from our own family in the North East, it is clear the Scottish people want an SNP government, having transitioned from labour dominance years ago and made labour irrelevant from the left. However do not assume all SNP voters want independence, indeed I know some members of our family vote SNP but reject independence
Douglas Ross (and RT Davies in Wales) are poor leaders and in Ross's case he is not in the same league as Ruth Davidson.
On the face of it it looks like Boris will have a demand for indyref2 to contend with but it must be remembered that Sturgeon quite likes being in power able to blame Boris and Westminster when things go wrong while benefiting 30% more through the Barnett formula than the rUK
Sturgeon is likely to win a majority without any need for Salmond or the Greens and expect her to continue using covid as her mission while delaying indyref2. At the same time it looks like she is going to have to contend with Salmond on a revenge mission and even possibly Galloway harrying from the other side.
While Anas Sarwar is an improvement for labour I just do not think labour are, or ever will be, relevant again in Scottish politics and ultimately indyref2 will be conceded but the timeline and result are far from predictable
I am sorry for the Scots who need good government, not the politics of hate, anger, intolerance and division that is likely throughout the period of the next Holyrood administration
On a more general note I do wonder if the Putin model is closer than the Trump one to how BJ sees getting his shit done, without the assassination of the state's enemies, internal & external, of course. Though maybe Hunky Dunky should be worried about that sealed bottle of expensive fragrance that he found on the doorstep...
Is there much real difference between Putin and Trump. Both utterly contemptuous of democracy.
And the idea that a British PM - let alone a Conservative one - should be admiring of Putin is..... well I would say surprising but given the amount of Russian money flowing into Tory party coffers perhaps not that surprising at all.
Well, Putin's smarter and still in charge, Trump only had a chaotic 4 years, so on purely pragmatic terms Vlad's the better example.
Constant reference to nation, culture and history being assailed by enemies within and without, rewriting of said history, the public finances syphoned off to line the pockets of government friends and supporters, constant campaigning photo ops (ok, gormless in a B&Q apron isn't quite bare-chested on a horse galloping across the Steppe, but you get the drift), flag, flag, flag.
The Conservatives haven’t had a major, irreversible split since 1846 (discounting the special case of the withdrawal of the Ulster Unionists from the wider unionist grouping in the early 1970s). I don’t see that changing now.
They had a split 2 years ago.
All of the Conservative and Unionists were expelled in favour of BoZoists
But they didn’t form a separate party. Just as they didn’t in 1867 or 1922 or 1975.
Not like Labour and the Liberals, who split more often than the Presbyterian Church.
No, I wouldn't expect a formal split in the Tory party, but that it is likely that Johnsons end (and all political careers end in failure) will come from losing popularity internally.
The hubris that we see now from Tory PB posters is much like what we saw in Mrs Thatchers third term, and just look at how that ended.
Immediately followed by another CON election win?
Yes, then a landslide Labour one.
Starmer is a Kinnock/Smith fellow, not a Blair.
To put a seasonal twist on it, he is John the Baptist, not the Messiah.
Off to work for me though...
Didn't John the Baptist lose his head?
As I recall, the "Messiah" got crucified on December 12, 2019.
Comments
https://twitter.com/JamesKanag/status/1378620709564481541?s=20
All political careers end in failure, but the present political climate suggests Labour have the bigger problem and of course, as we all know, once Boris starts to lose his popularity he will be replaced and the party will move on
The conservative party's overwhelming desire for power, and its ability to flex its position on all kinds of issues, creates a near nervous breakdown in its opponents
Also the vaccine passport and travel changes to be announced by Boris tomorrow apply only to England, as the devolved administrations have not come to a decision
Once English residents start going on holiday and football sees limited return of spectators, the zero covid policies of Sturgeon and Drakeford are going to be greatly tested
https://youtu.be/4Tb7SrDUXWo
I need to buy a specific piece of electrical kit. I can find it online, located in Germany for circa £325 or over £400 in the UK.
If I buy it online from Germany, will I be charged VAT on top as it comes into the UK?
Does anyone have the book yet?
His chosen 'sample Boris lie' was "no country in the world has a functioning track and trace system. (HoC on 23/6/2020)" Oborne: "At that point quite a few countries had exactly that."
Fullfact:
"Multiple countries have launched apps, including Germany, France, Australia, Singapore and Latvia. However uptake has been fairly low, and it’s too early to say whether they will be effective in helping combat Covid-19"
https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-track-and-trace-app-boris-johnson/
Oborne is on a sticky wicket if that's his slam dunk.
(Full disclosure: personally I think PO is a dick.)
I think the recovery you refer to will be at the day of judgement, which as nobody knows when it will be, might well be a billion years away.. or more..
(Unless I am insufficiently Machiavellian,)
So the question must be will you pay duty, delivery or a handling charge ?
Now Johnson is popular, primary because the only story in the national media is vaccination success. The vaccination success happened on Johnson's watch, and for once he was smart enough not to interfere with the experts, and it is going very well. For that hats off to Johnson. Compare and contrast with the chaos of political interference across the channel. We seldom get to hear anything else in nightly TV news. Putin will have invaded Ukraine, and we won't know about it, because we are celebrating vaccinating 30m people ( and so we should). All I am saying is there is one story, and it is wholly beneficial to the Government. That will change, but when? Next week, next month, next year or after the 2024 GE, who knows?
If you look at the contrasts of the media narrative in Wales, whereas the focus on vaccination success comes across loud and clear on say, BBC national news, on the BBC Wales news the focus is on Drakeford keeping pubs and gyms closed and mental health issues amongst the young during Covid. A focus which damages the Welsh Government. I actually think the nuanced view from Welsh media is healthier.
The contrast does help to explain why Johnson has had the perfect pandemic, and Drakeford (for example) has had a mare. Once everyone has been vaccinated, the national narrative has to become more inquisitorial, why are we still locking down? Why can't we go on a foreign holiday, despite being vaccinated? Why has John Lewis closed? Why did so many die? And why did we not notice Putin has annexed Ukraine?
And some people say he is a great PM.
Most other German sites will leave you to sort the UK VAT out yourself - that will be £62.50 + handling fee so it's going to be very close to £400...
In kingjamesian: "Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: "
If Boris chooses his time to go wisely, he may once again be lucky, and exit stage left to grateful applause and with his legacy assured. If he decides to 'go on and on', then at some point he'll come down splat. Whatever Boris's political skills, he doesn't have the power to suspend gravity. I feel at the moment a lot of what is keeping him going could be Carrie wanting to stay on as Prime Ministerial wag. I could be wrong in that, it could all be him.
That was why Cameron referred to them as Little Englanders.
He was right.
There might also be shipping delays.
I have bought a couple of things from UK suppliers who have then turned round and said the shipments were delayed because they were coming from European warehouses.
DHL's random number generator absolutely rinsed me on the recent shipment of a 951 long block from the Fatherland. I only needed the fucking head!
The relatively austere interior fit of the A330 obviously didn't come up to FLOTUK's standards as Johnson has just used our money to buy her a new A321LR with a super lux VVIP interior fit originally commissioned by the Four Seasons hotel chain. Brexit Belle II or the Nut Nut Express.
I think pro-europeanism within the Tories was borne mainly of pragmatism and trade. Now we're out it's all about looking to that same pragmatism in the future, simply a question of trade - not values.
Labour's problem is that the attachment to the EU amongst the membership is far more cultural. And that's a horse the leadership can't easily ride whilst having a default policy that our relationship with the EU is for the forseeable future finito.
https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1378483700002852864
Just as a softer departure was eminently possible, pro-EU politicians did more to foster anti-EU feeling than anyone.
Hmmm, didn't work out so well for Marina.
I make the abstentions as follows: all the Northern Irish MPs, the various Welsh and Scots Nats, two of the four independents (who are ex-Plaid and ex-SNP,) plus Mr Speaker and two vacant seats, which makes 72 in total. That gives the Government an effective majority of 152, which means that, if all the remaining opposition party members attempt to vote it down, 77 Tory rebels are needed to veto the measure.
Thus, for it not to be imposed we require three things: for the Government's legal advice to indicate that vaccine passports cannot be imposed without primary legislation; a lot more Tory rebels than there are at the moment (media reports that the numbers who have signed the pledge against it are only in the 40s); and we need Starmer actually to oppose, rather than fence sitting or totally collapsing in a wet mushy heap.
In short: if the Government is determined to bring in vaccine passports then the bar that needs to be cleared to stop them is, alas, very high indeed.
The same "renegotiation" that the Remain campaign put on the Verboten list. Because it was bobbins.
Anyway, England won't be made little by Brexit. Britain maybe. Cameron would have been better off calling us "Little Britons". He could have said that put a point to Brexiteers and they become "Yeah but no but yeah but no but...." He could have said that give them Brexit and they'll go all Andy Pipkin on you, saying "Don't want it..." He didn't use humour against his opponents. He just got all peevish. And really, really pissed them off.
I'm astonished if that poll is correct. I wonder how many people (and where) YouGov asked. What was the specific question asked? Campaign to rejoin immediately or at some point in the future?
https://twitter.com/ChrisChivers2/status/1378628715509379072?s=20
On a more general note I do wonder if the Putin model is closer than the Trump one to how BJ sees getting his shit done, without the assassination of the state's enemies, internal & external, of course. Though maybe Hunky Dunky should be worried about that sealed bottle of expensive fragrance that he found on the doorstep...
It's a worthy aim. Because the people who are anti-vax-passports are giving no alternative to stop these folk from being the Covid-fodder for a third wave.
I remember hearing a Conservative politician (maybe John Redwood) saying that the SNP voluntarily exclude themselves from Westminster votes on matters that don't affect Scotland. I'm guessing that "don't affect" means matters like health and education that are devolved to the Scottish Parliament. If so, that adds an awkward twist to ...
" Labour to take power at the next election as part of a rainbow alliance "
Given that the SNP are likely to bring 40+ seats to that alliance, Starmer could find himself with a secure majority for all-UK issues and regular defeats everywhere else.
Labour really did mess up devolution, didn’t they. Constitutional tinkering at its finest.
But in any case, we don't make other vaccines mandatory - nor do we stop people who don't take them from accessing services. See, for instance, MMR. And once herd immunity is achieved it really does not matter if a few people don't have the vaccine. So the only solution is to keep up with the vaccination programme, develop a booster programme and can this stupid, illiberal and divisive idea.
The pendulum does not inevitably swing to the opposition.
And the idea that a British PM - let alone a Conservative one - should be admiring of Putin is..... well I would say surprising but given the amount of Russian money flowing into Tory party coffers perhaps not that surprising at all.
The Lexiteers were mostly Trots and are the ones who have left the party willingly or by expulsion. Not surprisingly the Centrist social democrat factions are strongly pro EU.
I don't think Rejoin is a realistic objective in 2024 though probably renegotiation to reduce non tariff barriers by signing up to EU agricultural and food regulation or even EEA may well be. I expect Lib Dems to go EEA.
On topic, Starmer is not doing badly because he is a poor leader, he is doing averagely because he is an average Labour leader, and the govt are popular from vaccines and yes Brexit (only with Brexiteers), and the public are reluctant to hold the govt to account during a pandemic.
By 2024 who knows what part if any vaccines will play, Brexit could be a roaring success, absolute disaster or long forgotten, and the public are very likely to be more willing to judge the govt than they are now. The Tories should still be favourites, not at all because of Johnsons amazing leadership, Brexit success, vaccine success or Starmer being terrible, simply because this far from an election they nearly always should be favourites.
It featured a character called The Slobbit, by J R R Toolkit. He is on "misleading the Hoc", copy sent to the Speaker etc.
I wonder if PO will also go on "lied to the Queen about proroguing Parliament". Very appropriate quip for Easter Sunday from both Bennett and your good self :-) . Happy Easter.
The plaque was put on the House where she lived in Chalcot Square, not the one where she died.
It is 1 minute's walk away from that one, and was there 10 years before the date on that entry.
Very small place, Primrose Hill !
Tom Hunt is a massive hypocrite, I am shocked!
Now, given differential take-up across the country (related primarily to ethnicity,) that would imply that we would be left with coverage well in excess of 90% in most areas, which is more than enough to break those chains of transmission and crush the virus. And the answer, might one venture to suggest, to stubborn levels of hesitancy amongst specific groups such as black African people is not to contrive a mechanism that stops them doing things (which will only lead to unnecessary controversies about racism,) but to put in the hard slog to convince them. Which is what, reportedly, is now being done, with public health teams resorting to going door to door with vaccination kits in low take-up neighbourhoods.
In the current circumstances, vaccine passports are not the answer to anything, save for enabling a gradual return to international travel. I've nothing against the suggestion that we should develop this kind of technology in case we may need it to help with a crisis like this in the future (though pray God the next one comes along after we've all died of old age,) but domestically the epidemic is almost over. Their introduction at this late stage of the game is nothing to do with the public health benefits and everything to do with authoritarian surveillance and control.
Sarwar has had a good start, Labour should be looking to regain seats in Scotland IMHO
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1378492766678827008?s=19
Our regular reminder that all opinion polls are unreliable, but it's a really bad idea to consider them in isolation.
The idea makes no sense, unless restrictions remain on every area of our lives.
Our great PM.
Of course, in point of fact a crowded tube train or boozer is, in theory, rather more hazardous than a trip to the theatre or a day at the races, but logic doesn't come into any of this. The entire point of the scheme is to impose ID cards by the back door.
The insistence by Starmer that we have a second referendum, with the hope that a weary electorate would reverse the 2016 vote, led to deadlock in parliament. Even those who had backed Remain in 2016 thought this was unfair, disrespectful to the Leave majority and just continuing the uncertainty.
My view is that Starmer is a poor strategist and not the person to lead Labour to victory.
Like they said about Labour before Blair, the next Labour PM might not be an MP yet.
Thank you both.
Those responses suggest there still is an interesting twist, along the lines of ... if Starmer is difficult about an independence referendum then the SNP's principles will compel them to stay out of all manner of Westminster votes, but if he gives them what they want then their principles would compel them to support the sound government of the entire country.
Labour must oppose this entire stupid plan.
HOWEVER - let's wait and see what happens as the election draws closer, and we have more numbers. My instinct is that the Farage Effect applies here: that the Alba Party will have a relatively low ceiling of support, and yet sufficient Salmond devotees exist to get it into Parliament. But we shall see.
Strange things are happening in Scotland with a super indyref2 majority virtually assured but at the same time the yes/no is 51/49 in this poll, and more likely 50/50, and most Scots do not want indyref2 for 5 years.
In my experience of Scotland and indeed from our own family in the North East, it is clear the Scottish people want an SNP government, having transitioned from labour dominance years ago and made labour irrelevant from the left. However do not assume all SNP voters want independence, indeed I know some members of our family vote SNP but reject independence
Douglas Ross (and RT Davies in Wales) are poor leaders and in Ross's case he is not in the same league as Ruth Davidson.
On the face of it it looks like Boris will have a demand for indyref2 to contend with but it must be remembered that Sturgeon quite likes being in power able to blame Boris and Westminster when things go wrong while benefiting 30% more through the Barnett formula than the rUK
Sturgeon is likely to win a majority without any need for Salmond or the Greens and expect her to continue using covid as her mission while delaying indyref2. At the same time it looks like she is going to have to contend with Salmond on a revenge mission and even possibly Galloway harrying from the other side.
While Anas Sarwar is an improvement for labour I just do not think labour are, or ever will be, relevant again in Scottish politics and ultimately indyref2 will be conceded but the timeline and result are far from predictable
I am sorry for the Scots who need good government, not the politics of hate, anger, intolerance and division that is likely throughout the period of the next Holyrood administration
Constant reference to nation, culture and history being assailed by enemies within and without, rewriting of said history, the public finances syphoned off to line the pockets of government friends and supporters, constant campaigning photo ops (ok, gormless in a B&Q apron isn't quite bare-chested on a horse galloping across the Steppe, but you get the drift), flag, flag, flag.
https://twitter.com/Ben_Jolly_9/status/1378372544277979141?s=20