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Boris’s Legacy? – politicalbetting.com

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,899
    edited April 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    Chile is over 50 doses per 100 people in terms of vaccinations. That's actually ahead of us...
    They're either using Sinovac in a suboptimal manner or Sinovac is less effective than Astra/Pfizer.

    Probably a bit of both.
    It's a bit misleading to say they're ahead of us. We have significantly more people with at least one dose.

    image
    Sure, but they've still used more vaccinations total - if they'd gone with a 12 week strategy for Sinovac they might be doing better.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Chile is over 50 doses per 100 people in terms of vaccinations. That's actually ahead of us...
    They're either using Sinovac in a suboptimal manner or Sinovac is less effective than Astra/Pfizer.

    Probably a bit of both.
    Sinovac is bollocks. You don't create a successful vaccine then the Chinese government come along and have the top two officials removed a few weeks later.
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    This maybe his legacy.

    Show your papers or you can't go to the Docs, the supermarkets, or the pub.

    Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

    Covid status certificates, available to those who have been vaccinated, recently tested negative or who have developed antibodies after contracting the virus, are being taken increasingly seriously at the top of government as a way of aiding the unlocking of the economy.

    Just over five weeks ago Johnson announced that Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, would lead a review of the issue. While he was not expected to report until mid-June, the prime minister is expected to provide a “high-level direction of travel” update on certificates on Monday. If he says that he sees a role for passports, the Gove review will continue to June, focusing on solving practical difficulties.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

    Drakeford said last week the four nations were in talks over this, and it also seems Drakeford is in favour
    I thought Drakeford was an authoritarian nincompoop? Sure I've read that here.
    It does seem that this decision, if made, will be a collective one with all the First Ministers
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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:
    40 Tory rebels needed to overturn the government majority.
    Just the start ... it always has been.

    Expect digital ID cards too. The consultation on that has already gone through.

    Then comes a Chinese-style social credit system. The government has been working on that for around two years.

    Think of the future UK population as a herd of 67 M electronically-tagged sheep.

    A year ago, anyone who suggested that this might be on the cards was a 'mad conspiracy theorist'.

    Watch recent interviews given by Nick Hudson in which he demolishes most of the policies adopted since Mar. 2020. All developed countries had detailed plans for dealing with epidemics, based on successful past experience. They then tore them up, almost all at once. Funny, that.
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    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:
    40 Tory rebels needed to overturn the government majority.
    Just the start ... it always has been.

    Expect digital ID cards too. The consultation on that has already gone through.

    Then comes a Chinese-style social credit system. The government has been working on that for around two years.

    Think of the future UK population as a herd of 67 M electronically-tagged sheep.

    A year ago, anyone who suggested that this might be on the cards was a 'mad conspiracy theorist'.

    Watch recent interviews given by Nick Hudson in which he demolishes most of the policies adopted since Mar. 2020. All developed countries had detailed plans for dealing with epidemics, based on successful past experience. They then tore them up, almost all at once. Funny, that.
    The Welsh will love that.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Some sanity leaking into the government, perhaps?

    https://twitter.com/stianwestlake/status/1377658622218493953
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,444
    "Saira Khan claims Asian culture has held her back more than racism as she credits Britain for 'encouraging her to make the most of herself'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9427657/Saira-Khan-claims-Asian-culture-held-racism.html
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited April 2021
    I think Dan is half-right here. I don't think Starmer will oppose it, exactly; more likely he'll cavil and mumble, and as usual end up half-supporting it in a way which pleases no-one:

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1377661532943884289
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    I think Dan is half-right here. I don't think Starmer will oppose it, exactly; more likely he'll cavil and mumble, and as usual end up half-supporting it in a way which pleases no-one:

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1377661532943884289

    If the polling is to be believed Dan is right
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    Boris Johnson's vaccine passports would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    Some good news, that has probably been covered...

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/01/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-efficacy-six-months-bn/index.html

    1. Pfizer-BioNTech remains highly effective after six months.
    2. It also appears to lose none of its efficacy against the South African variant.
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    Boris Johnson's vaccine passports would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.

    Is that the same as my eTA with Canada
  • Options

    Boris Johnson's vaccine passports would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.

    Is that the same as my eTA with Canada
    You need a history lesson before commentating further.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    This maybe his legacy.

    Show your papers or you can't go to the Docs, the supermarkets, or the pub.

    Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

    Covid status certificates, available to those who have been vaccinated, recently tested negative or who have developed antibodies after contracting the virus, are being taken increasingly seriously at the top of government as a way of aiding the unlocking of the economy.

    Just over five weeks ago Johnson announced that Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, would lead a review of the issue. While he was not expected to report until mid-June, the prime minister is expected to provide a “high-level direction of travel” update on certificates on Monday. If he says that he sees a role for passports, the Gove review will continue to June, focusing on solving practical difficulties.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

    Take that list of "essential" places, subtract the GPs and add in elderly care homes, and you obtain a list of those locations in which the bulk of infection has probably taken place. Which just goes, once again, to show that the argument that we somehow need to show our papers everywhere else in order to squash the Plague is a fiction.

    Once we're all jabbed then the epidemic in Britain is finished. It's most of the way to being finished already. Papers are nothing to do with public health and everything to do with control.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,359

    Boris Johnson's vaccine passports would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.

    Is that the same as my eTA with Canada
    Does you eta with Canada monitor where in Canada you go? Or just whether or not you have entered the country?
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    Boris Johnson's vaccine passports would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.

    Is that the same as my eTA with Canada
    You need a history lesson before commentating further.
    There is little or no difference to obtaining an eTA or a vaccine passport acceptable to Qantas and cruise ships

    Indeed the EU are about to launch there own

    Also I assume you have a driving licence

    And if vaccine passports opens our economy quicker than everyone is a winner

    And as I said Drakeford has confirmed talks with Gove indicating this will be a UK wide scheme
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,800

    Pulpstar said:

    Chile is over 50 doses per 100 people in terms of vaccinations. That's actually ahead of us...
    They're either using Sinovac in a suboptimal manner or Sinovac is less effective than Astra/Pfizer.

    Probably a bit of both.
    Sinovac is bollocks. You don't create a successful vaccine then the Chinese government come along and have the top two officials removed a few weeks later.
    Even were Chile using the same mix of vaccines as ourselves, they'd be seeing far less suppression at the moment on account that a far greater proportion of their whole vaccination program has happened in the last couple of weeks, so immunity hasn't fully kicked in for many. Any effect from lower efficacy of Sinovac is on top of that.
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    Cookie said:

    Boris Johnson's vaccine passports would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.

    Is that the same as my eTA with Canada
    Does you eta with Canada monitor where in Canada you go? Or just whether or not you have entered the country?
    It entitles you to go anywhere in Canada and can be requested on demand
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    Cookie said:

    Boris Johnson's vaccine passports would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.

    Is that the same as my eTA with Canada
    Does you eta with Canada monitor where in Canada you go? Or just whether or not you have entered the country?
    It entitles you to go anywhere in Canada and can be requested on demand
    Do you have to show it to enter a restaurant, a simple yes or no will suffice.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    I'm still yet to see a compelling reason for vaccine passports, even on planes and cruise ships.

    If I'm vaccinated, why do I care if everyone else is vaccinated or not? I have essentially 100% protection from COVID.

    If I'm unvaccinated, well I can't access the service.

    So who actually benefits?
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,902
    From what we read this morning, vaxports have little chance of getting through Parliament.
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    Cookie said:

    Boris Johnson's vaccine passports would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.

    Is that the same as my eTA with Canada
    Does you eta with Canada monitor where in Canada you go? Or just whether or not you have entered the country?
    It entitles you to go anywhere in Canada and can be requested on demand
    Do you have to show it to enter a restaurant, a simple yes or no will suffice.
    No but it can be requested
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    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,174

    From what we read this morning, vaxports have little chance of getting through Parliament.

    Let's hope that is the case. There is no place for them for domestic use. Boris needs to move away from this.

    For overseas travel, then yes they are fine.

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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,444
    edited April 2021
    Chris Whitty:

    ""Covid is not going to go away," he said. "You've got to work out what's a rational policy to this and here I would differentiate quite a lot between a pandemic environment and what you get with seasonal flu.

    "Every year, somewhere between 7,000 and 9,000 citizens die of flu, most of them very elderly, and every few years you get a bad flu year where 20,000 to 25,000 die of it. The last time we had that was three years ago and no one noticed it.

    "So it is clear we are going to have to manage it, at some point, rather like we manage the flu. Here is a seasonal, very dangerous disease that kills thousands of people and society has chosen a particular way round it.""

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/01/no-lockdowns-britain-will-treat-coronavirus-like-flu-says/
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    I'm still yet to see a compelling reason for vaccine passports, even on planes and cruise ships.

    If I'm vaccinated, why do I care if everyone else is vaccinated or not? I have essentially 100% protection from COVID.

    If I'm unvaccinated, well I can't access the service.

    So who actually benefits?

    Completely agree, but I wonder if the government is thinking ahead? Say we hit the autumn/winter and there are a not insignificant number of COVID deaths and that most of them are from ethnic minorities. Perhaps the government wants to be able to say they've done everything they can to encourage vaccinations.
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    I'm still yet to see a compelling reason for vaccine passports, even on planes and cruise ships.

    If I'm vaccinated, why do I care if everyone else is vaccinated or not? I have essentially 100% protection from COVID.

    If I'm unvaccinated, well I can't access the service.

    So who actually benefits?

    It is already required by airlines and cruise companies and very shortly will be required for EU citizens and others to travel in Europe
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,444
    rcs1000 said:

    Some good news, that has probably been covered...

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/01/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-efficacy-six-months-bn/index.html

    1. Pfizer-BioNTech remains highly effective after six months.
    2. It also appears to lose none of its efficacy against the South African variant.

    Also the Brazilian variant?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    Floater said:
    Worth noting they are now getting 0.5% of the population vaccinated (i.e. getting a single dose) per day. Well before the uk, of course, but a significant acceleration on where they were a month ago.
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    I'm still yet to see a compelling reason for vaccine passports, even on planes and cruise ships.

    If I'm vaccinated, why do I care if everyone else is vaccinated or not? I have essentially 100% protection from COVID.

    If I'm unvaccinated, well I can't access the service.

    So who actually benefits?

    I think it is being driven by the fears of a new (vaccine resistant) variants.

    In right circumstances the vaccine passport will do a better job than test, trace, and isolate.

    I think the government has seen the polling and realises the public supports them and will not forgive them for many more deaths.

    Civil liberties can take a hike in their eyes.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    Total Covid patients in UK hospitals now down below 4,000. Deaths down nearly 40% in a week, now averaging about 45 per day for the last seven days and in steep and continuous decline. Vaccine 1st dose coverage approaching 60% of all adults. There are still pockets of the country where the Plague is somewhat more prevalent than elsewhere, but by and large things seem to be going reasonably well.

    Are you ok?
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    Cookie said:

    Boris Johnson's vaccine passports would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.

    Is that the same as my eTA with Canada
    Does you eta with Canada monitor where in Canada you go? Or just whether or not you have entered the country?
    It entitles you to go anywhere in Canada and can be requested on demand
    Do you have to show it to enter a restaurant, a simple yes or no will suffice.
    No but it can be requested
    So your answer is No, so the vaccine passport is not like your Canada ETA.
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    @Gardenwalker very interesting video. Thank you for that.

    Indeed. The question it raised in my mind, if the US is becoming Pacific-facing and the EU Eurasia-facing, is not so much how awkward that is for the UK, but rather that it presents us an opportunity not to be so defence-focused and to reshuffle our expectations of the economic vs military nature of our power and priorities.

    If we are no longer at the centre of the battle zone, why do we need to find a place in a battle zone?
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    Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    From what we read this morning, vaxports have little chance of getting through Parliament.

    Remember they have powers that could keep the country locked up till the autumn. It need not be “pass this or we unlock with it”. It could be “pass this or we can’t unlock” and he blames Labour.
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    I'm still yet to see a compelling reason for vaccine passports, even on planes and cruise ships.

    If I'm vaccinated, why do I care if everyone else is vaccinated or not? I have essentially 100% protection from COVID.

    If I'm unvaccinated, well I can't access the service.

    So who actually benefits?

    I think it is being driven by the fears of a new (vaccine resistant) variants.

    In right circumstances the vaccine passport will do a better job than test, trace, and isolate.

    I think the government has seen the polling and realises the public supports them and will not forgive them for many more deaths.

    Civil liberties can take a hike in their eyes.
    I do not think the opposition to vaccine passports on this forum is anywhere near public opinion, and agree with these sentiments

    But I do believe it has to be UK wide
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    One of the things I want looked at is the throw away culture for PPE - would it be better to go with re-usable protective systems? Even reusable filters?

    This might also have some interaction with fit, comfort and the integration between the various parts of the PPE systems.

    Some of the pictures of medics wearing stuff has looked patchy in coverage, lots of gaps and also cumbersome to wear.
    Single use surgical drapes and gowns have a lot lower cross contamination issues as well as being significantly cheaper and easier to handle
    With current materials - possibly. But one interesting advance, as a result of the chemicals revolution, is materials that can have long life and survive exposure to suitable cleaning agents.

    So PPE you can dump into a bin full of a disinfectant, without it falling to bits?

    Similarly, with mask technology, it may well be possible to design easy to disinfect systems that are re-usable.
    You have to launder reusable ppe to be sure that you have adequately sterilised it. That needs space and capital expenditure on site (plus opportunity cost on the real estate) or expensive and complex outsourcing
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Some good news, that has probably been covered...

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/01/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-efficacy-six-months-bn/index.html

    1. Pfizer-BioNTech remains highly effective after six months.
    2. It also appears to lose none of its efficacy against the South African variant.

    Also the Brazilian variant?
    There haven't been enough cases in the placebo group to know yet. However, this bodes well, because the antibody response drop was very similar between Brazil and SA variants.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:
    Around our way the Easter bunny makes more frequent trips.
    Our 9 year old has just told me to admit that I’m the Easter bunny 😢
  • Options

    I'm still yet to see a compelling reason for vaccine passports, even on planes and cruise ships.

    If I'm vaccinated, why do I care if everyone else is vaccinated or not? I have essentially 100% protection from COVID.

    If I'm unvaccinated, well I can't access the service.

    So who actually benefits?

    I think it is being driven by the fears of a new (vaccine resistant) variants.

    In right circumstances the vaccine passport will do a better job than test, trace, and isolate.

    I think the government has seen the polling and realises the public supports them and will not forgive them for many more deaths.

    Civil liberties can take a hike in their eyes.
    I do not think the opposition to vaccine passports on this forum is anywhere near public opinion, and agree with these sentiments

    But I do believe it has to be UK wide
    Just because public opinion backs something doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

    Public opinion was quite keen on appeasement.
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    Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited April 2021
    Both of those things can be true. What is the implication here about specials? I think they are brilliant, and they are definitely on the front line.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,116
    edited April 2021
    Weird isn’t it? Why not just say that?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Maybe they had a loan from Greensill ?
    Unlikely.

    I wonder if any government money has been spent trying to deal with Boris Johnson's inability to keep the snake inside the pet shop.
    The man does his utmost to ensure there's a next generation of brits big enough pay your pension and all you di is criticise him

    Really we should put our PM out to stud in Scotland and safeguard the Union..
    Not such a good idea, a few months ago I read that he was barely on speaking terms with most of the kids he had with Marina Wheeler for the way he treated their mother.

    Putting him out to stud in Scotland might be a mistake plus he doesn't give two hoots about the Union, as we saw with the no border down the Irish Sea.
    I think he’s quite keen on unions of partners
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    Charles said:

    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:
    Around our way the Easter bunny makes more frequent trips.
    Our 9 year old has just told me to admit that I’m the Easter bunny 😢
    I hope you doubled down, denied it, and have arranged for an elaborate deception with an imposter as the bunny. It's the only sensible thing to do.
  • Options

    I'm still yet to see a compelling reason for vaccine passports, even on planes and cruise ships.

    If I'm vaccinated, why do I care if everyone else is vaccinated or not? I have essentially 100% protection from COVID.

    If I'm unvaccinated, well I can't access the service.

    So who actually benefits?

    I think it is being driven by the fears of a new (vaccine resistant) variants.

    In right circumstances the vaccine passport will do a better job than test, trace, and isolate.

    I think the government has seen the polling and realises the public supports them and will not forgive them for many more deaths.

    Civil liberties can take a hike in their eyes.
    I do not think the opposition to vaccine passports on this forum is anywhere near public opinion, and agree with these sentiments

    But I do believe it has to be UK wide
    Just because public opinion backs something doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

    Public opinion was quite keen on appeasement.
    If it gets the economy started quicker that has to be the justification
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Floater said:
    Scaled up to the UK's population size that's now approximately 1,100 deaths a day. At peak the UK was averaging around 1,300 per day in each seven day period. The UK total for hospital patients peaked at about the same time as the daily death toll; Poland's hospital numbers are still going up. It's evidently very bad indeed over there at the moment; AIUI down in large part to the Kent variant.

    Elsewhere, the French ICU total is now over 5,000 and still climbing. It does look like the tsunami that battered the UK and Portugal around the beginning of the year is now striking elsewhere.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    edited April 2021

    Both of those things can be true. What is the implication here about specials? I think they are brilliant, and they are definitely on the front line.
    Regularly? It is at best misleading as it is probably not what most people thought was meant by saying 12 years of frontline policing. That he has quit shows that he must know it was misleading as well, else he'd brazen it out.

    But do parties not vet anymore?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Charles said:

    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:
    Around our way the Easter bunny makes more frequent trips.
    Our 9 year old has just told me to admit that I’m the Easter bunny 😢
    Did you 'fess up?
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,359
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:
    Around our way the Easter bunny makes more frequent trips.
    Our 9 year old has just told me to admit that I’m the Easter bunny 😢
    I hope you doubled down, denied it, and have arranged for an elaborate deception with an imposter as the bunny. It's the only sensible thing to do.
    My 6 year old yesterday asked me if Jesus turned into the Easter Bunny.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,079
    MaxPB said:

    This maybe his legacy.

    Show your papers or you can't go to the Docs, the supermarkets, or the pub.

    Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

    Covid status certificates, available to those who have been vaccinated, recently tested negative or who have developed antibodies after contracting the virus, are being taken increasingly seriously at the top of government as a way of aiding the unlocking of the economy.

    Just over five weeks ago Johnson announced that Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, would lead a review of the issue. While he was not expected to report until mid-June, the prime minister is expected to provide a “high-level direction of travel” update on certificates on Monday. If he says that he sees a role for passports, the Gove review will continue to June, focusing on solving practical difficulties.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

    If Starmer really is opposed I don't see how they'll get through the house, the Tory rebels will easily defeat the government on it.
    Don't think there'll be a vote myself. Think it will die a death.
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    Both of those things can be true. What is the implication here about specials? I think they are brilliant, and they are definitely on the front line.
    I think it was he was heavily implying he was full time front line cop for 12 years when he really wasn't.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MaxPB said:

    On single use vs reusable in a medical and pharmaceutical setting you have to consider the energy/carbon cost of autoclaving or steam sterilising. It isn't cheap.

    This is what I used to do for a job.

    Steam would be seriously impractical too, what about x-rays or microwaves?
    Gamma rays are more fun
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,108

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Maybe they had a loan from Greensill ?
    Unlikely.

    I wonder if any government money has been spent trying to deal with Boris Johnson's inability to keep the snake inside the pet shop.
    The man does his utmost to ensure there's a next generation of brits big enough pay your pension and all you do is criticise him

    Really we should put our PM out to stud in Scotland and safeguard the Union..
    Boris Johnson’s legacy will be that he put a record number of little pricks in people.

    And also, running a successful vaccine programme.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,503
    Shock new entrant in the Hartlepool race. More policies in the thread. I am not sure enough differentiation from the other parties though...

    https://twitter.com/edwardpoole1975/status/1377552406729347072?s=19
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    TimT said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    Or lessons will be learnt in the short-term and forgotten again in the medium- to long-term. That seems to be the case in industrial disasters.
    I was thinking the other day "I wonder how close SARS and MERS came to catastrophe?" I suspect that if someone in early 2019 had pointed to those diseases as reasons to spend billions of pounds preparing for a pandemic they would have received short shrift. "But nothing much happened? So it would be a waste of money."

    I hope we learn some lessons from COVID-19, but I dare say in 20 years or so most of them will have been forgotten.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    TimT said:

    On single use vs reusable in a medical and pharmaceutical setting you have to consider the energy/carbon cost of autoclaving or steam sterilising. It isn't cheap.

    This is what I used to do for a job.

    Hospital administration? Or equipment maintenance?

    It is interesting that the US DoD and State Dept spend tens of millions of dollars on biosafety around the world, including buying developing countries autoclaves and incinerators, but somehow forgot to factor in the cost of the power/fuel to use them. Results - unused equipment and rooms of bags filled with medical waste.

    I heard a rule of thumb that the average annual cost of operating a research lab is around 30-60% of the build cost, depending on the pathogens handled.
    I designed single-use manufacturing systems for pharmaceutical companies to replace big stainless steel plants that use autoclaves and steam to sterilise.
    That business is a license to print money. Why did you leave?
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    I'm still yet to see a compelling reason for vaccine passports, even on planes and cruise ships.

    If I'm vaccinated, why do I care if everyone else is vaccinated or not? I have essentially 100% protection from COVID.

    If I'm unvaccinated, well I can't access the service.

    So who actually benefits?

    I think it is being driven by the fears of a new (vaccine resistant) variants.

    In right circumstances the vaccine passport will do a better job than test, trace, and isolate.

    I think the government has seen the polling and realises the public supports them and will not forgive them for many more deaths.

    Civil liberties can take a hike in their eyes.
    I do not think the opposition to vaccine passports on this forum is anywhere near public opinion, and agree with these sentiments

    But I do believe it has to be UK wide
    Just because public opinion backs something doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

    Public opinion was quite keen on appeasement.
    If it gets the economy started quicker that has to be the justification
    It's not necessary. If the vaccine program continues to go well then the epidemic will soon be finished. If (and I think this is unlikely, but not impossible) a vaccine evading variant arises and manages to get into the country, then no amount of initiatives like this will do any good against it and we'll be back in lockdown again. Either way, papers contribute nothing. Indeed, putting extra staff on the doors of every venue to check the papers and stop the supposedly unclean from getting in will be burdensome to business, not helpful.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,247
    edited April 2021
    Foxy said:

    Shock new entrant in the Hartlepool race. More policies in the thread. I am not sure enough differentiation from the other parties though...

    https://twitter.com/edwardpoole1975/status/1377552406729347072?s=19

    Ex labour candidate in local elections

    Are we sure that will help Labour hold
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    Kaboom!

    SNP vote down on both the constituency and list vote in new Holyrood Survation poll and Alba on just 3% on the list

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1377673249304276993?s=20
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,108
    edited April 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    Some good news for Heathrow: United is now going to route all of its European traffic through the airport

    https://crankyflier.com/2021/04/01/united-announces-sweeping-changes-to-europe-will-open-london-heathrow-hub/

    That is quite good. I particularly enjoyed the mockup of the new air company livery. Somebody went to a lot of trouble there.

    (I take it it’s still morning in that small unimportant place in the middle of America that you live in?)
  • Options
    Charles said:

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Maybe they had a loan from Greensill ?
    Unlikely.

    I wonder if any government money has been spent trying to deal with Boris Johnson's inability to keep the snake inside the pet shop.
    The man does his utmost to ensure there's a next generation of brits big enough pay your pension and all you di is criticise him

    Really we should put our PM out to stud in Scotland and safeguard the Union..
    Not such a good idea, a few months ago I read that he was barely on speaking terms with most of the kids he had with Marina Wheeler for the way he treated their mother.

    Putting him out to stud in Scotland might be a mistake plus he doesn't give two hoots about the Union, as we saw with the no border down the Irish Sea.
    I think he’s quite keen on unions of partners
    Well who wouldn't want a harem ?
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I'm still yet to see a compelling reason for vaccine passports, even on planes and cruise ships.

    If I'm vaccinated, why do I care if everyone else is vaccinated or not? I have essentially 100% protection from COVID.

    If I'm unvaccinated, well I can't access the service.

    So who actually benefits?

    The airlines
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,108
    HYUFD said:

    Kaboom!

    SNP vote down on both the constituency and list vote in new Holyrood Survation poll and Alba on just 3% on the list

    That’s not how you spell ‘klaxon.’
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,079
    Charles said:

    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:
    Around our way the Easter bunny makes more frequent trips.
    Our 9 year old has just told me to admit that I’m the Easter bunny 😢
    That sort of cheekiness needs to be stamped on.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,359

    Boris Johnson's vaccine passports would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.

    Is that the same as my eTA with Canada
    You need a history lesson before commentating further.
    There is little or no difference to obtaining an eTA or a vaccine passport acceptable to Qantas and cruise ships

    Indeed the EU are about to launch there own

    Also I assume you have a driving licence

    And if vaccine passports opens our economy quicker than everyone is a winner

    And as I said Drakeford has confirmed talks with Gove indicating this will be a UK wide scheme
    I think this discussion is being carried out at cross-purposes.

    Few on here would object to a piece of paper which enables a business to, if it chooses, request to see, in order to check that you have been vaccinated as a condition of admittance.
    Few on here would object to a state being able to say who can and cannot come in, and for one of the criteria for admittance being vaccination,
    If this is as far as a vaccine passport goes, many objectors will object no more.

    What we are objecting to is a system which - either by tracking your movements or by being compelled to scan an id on arrival at any given place (the pub being the example always given, but not the most important) - contributes to a database of movements which the government controls.

    I will join you in not objecting to the former. But the latter strikes me as a dystopia actually worse than the last year.
  • Options
    Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    kle4 said:

    Both of those things can be true. What is the implication here about specials? I think they are brilliant, and they are definitely on the front line.
    Regularly? It is at best misleading as it is probably not what most people thought was meant by saying 12 years of frontline policing. That he has quit shows that he must know it was misleading as well, else he'd brazen it out.

    But do parties not vet anymore?
    Yup. Most specials do something like 20 hours a month, all on front line shifts. If someone’s been a Special for 12 years then I think it’s absolutely fine to say they have 12 years of front line policing. I mean, I’d advise a political candidate to be really clear, because the media are like children, but I wouldn’t think someone had lied on their cv if they said that.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,108
    edited April 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:
    Around our way the Easter bunny makes more frequent trips.
    Our 9 year old has just told me to admit that I’m the Easter bunny 😢
    That sort of cheekiness needs to be stamped on.
    If you think stamping on nine year olds is appropriate behaviour, teaching isn’t for you.

    The trick is, not to let them rabbit on.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TimT said:

    @Gardenwalker very interesting video. Thank you for that.

    Indeed. The question it raised in my mind, if the US is becoming Pacific-facing and the EU Eurasia-facing, is not so much how awkward that is for the UK, but rather that it presents us an opportunity not to be so defence-focused and to reshuffle our expectations of the economic vs military nature of our power and priorities.

    If we are no longer at the centre of the battle zone, why do we need to find a place in a battle zone?
    Because our values are the shining beacon that casts light into the darkest reaches of the earth.

    Liberty, democracy, justice and the rule of law are precious and it’s our duty to fight for them
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,494
    HYUFD said:

    Kaboom!

    SNP vote down on both the constituency and list vote in new Holyrood Survation poll and Alba on just 3% on the list

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1377673249304276993?s=20

    Consituency: Independence: 49 Union 50

    List: Independence: 51 Union 45
  • Options
    Breaking news

    From 12th April all customers must sign in under new rules for pubs and restaurants

    Anyone over 16 must give their contact details, or check in to NHS test and trace, before entering pub, restaurant or cafe venue when they reopen for outdoor service in England
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,152

    I'm still yet to see a compelling reason for vaccine passports, even on planes and cruise ships.

    If I'm vaccinated, why do I care if everyone else is vaccinated or not? I have essentially 100% protection from COVID.

    If I'm unvaccinated, well I can't access the service.

    So who actually benefits?

    I think it is being driven by the fears of a new (vaccine resistant) variants.

    In right circumstances the vaccine passport will do a better job than test, trace, and isolate.

    I think the government has seen the polling and realises the public supports them and will not forgive them for many more deaths.

    Civil liberties can take a hike in their eyes.
    I do not think the opposition to vaccine passports on this forum is anywhere near public opinion, and agree with these sentiments

    But I do believe it has to be UK wide
    Just because public opinion backs something doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

    Public opinion was quite keen on appeasement.
    If it gets the economy started quicker that has to be the justification
    Becoming a police state and sacrificing our civil liberties cannot be justified.
    "I have essentially 100% protection from COVID."

    No, you don't.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:
    Around our way the Easter bunny makes more frequent trips.
    Our 9 year old has just told me to admit that I’m the Easter bunny 😢
    I hope you doubled down, denied it, and have arranged for an elaborate deception with an imposter as the bunny. It's the only sensible thing to do.
    I promised I wouldn’t buy any Easter eggs on Sunday...
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Kaboom!

    SNP vote down on both the constituency and list vote in new Holyrood Survation poll and Alba on just 3% on the list

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1377673249304276993?s=20

    Is that a Scotland only poll
  • Options
    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:
    Around our way the Easter bunny makes more frequent trips.
    Our 9 year old has just told me to admit that I’m the Easter bunny 😢
    I hope you doubled down, denied it, and have arranged for an elaborate deception with an imposter as the bunny. It's the only sensible thing to do.
    My 6 year old yesterday asked me if Jesus turned into the Easter Bunny.
    At least they don't think that Easter is when Santa was nailed to a cross.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    This is a good piece on Greenshill: https://www.epsilontheory.com/the-best-way-to-rob-a-bank/
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060

    Foxy said:

    Shock new entrant in the Hartlepool race. More policies in the thread. I am not sure enough differentiation from the other parties though...

    https://twitter.com/edwardpoole1975/status/1377552406729347072?s=19

    Ex labour candidate in local elections

    Are we sure that will help Labour hold
    Check the date on the tweet...
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2021
    Andy_JS said:
    Strangely Guardian and BBC not outraged by this...but Graudian all over this story,

    Tory who claimed MP faked Jewish beliefs is to run in local elections

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/01/tory-wendy-maisey-claimed-mp-faked-jewish-beliefs-stand-local-elections
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:
    Around our way the Easter bunny makes more frequent trips.
    Our 9 year old has just told me to admit that I’m the Easter bunny 😢
    Did you 'fess up?
    Of course not.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,079
    HYUFD said:

    Kaboom!

    SNP vote down on both the constituency and list vote in new Holyrood Survation poll and Alba on just 3% on the list

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1377673249304276993?s=20

    What do Alba need to score for the AS plan to work?
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    HYUFD said:

    Kaboom!

    SNP vote down on both the constituency and list vote in new Holyrood Survation poll and Alba on just 3% on the list

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1377673249304276993?s=20

    OTOH these are mostly margin of error changes, and you could just as easily say that the brand new party, the existence of which became common knowledge less than a week ago, is already halfway to the amount of support it needs to be in serious contention for list seats. It's a bit early to be getting excited.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954
    HYUFD said:

    Kaboom!

    SNP vote down on both the constituency and list vote in new Holyrood Survation poll and Alba on just 3% on the list

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1377673249304276993?s=20

    Kaboom indeed

    https://twitter.com/AnErrorOfComedy/status/1377674599392022531?s=20
  • Options
    Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Kaboom!

    SNP vote down on both the constituency and list vote in new Holyrood Survation poll and Alba on just 3% on the list

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1377673249304276993?s=20

    Consituency: Independence: 49 Union 50

    List: Independence: 51 Union 45
    It feels like the missed opportunity for game playing by unionists was/is a “Unionist Greens” party on the list.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    HYUFD said:

    Kaboom!

    SNP vote down on both the constituency and list vote in new Holyrood Survation poll and Alba on just 3% on the list

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1377673249304276993?s=20

    Is that a Scotland only poll
    Yes:

    https://twitter.com/davieclegg/status/1377668216424660999
  • Options

    Foxy said:

    Shock new entrant in the Hartlepool race. More policies in the thread. I am not sure enough differentiation from the other parties though...

    https://twitter.com/edwardpoole1975/status/1377552406729347072?s=19

    Ex labour candidate in local elections

    Are we sure that will help Labour hold
    Check the date on the tweet...
    And I thought I had escaped todays 1st April
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,079

    Breaking news

    From 12th April all customers must sign in under new rules for pubs and restaurants

    Anyone over 16 must give their contact details, or check in to NHS test and trace, before entering pub, restaurant or cafe venue when they reopen for outdoor service in England

    Same as last summer then.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    Kaboom!

    SNP vote down on both the constituency and list vote in new Holyrood Survation poll and Alba on just 3% on the list

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1377673249304276993?s=20

    OTOH these are mostly margin of error changes, and you could just as easily say that the brand new party, the existence of which became common knowledge less than a week ago, is already halfway to the amount of support it needs to be in serious contention for list seats. It's a bit early to be getting excited.
    Wise words and 5 weeks to go

    Anything could happen in Scotland
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    kinabalu said:

    Breaking news

    From 12th April all customers must sign in under new rules for pubs and restaurants

    Anyone over 16 must give their contact details, or check in to NHS test and trace, before entering pub, restaurant or cafe venue when they reopen for outdoor service in England

    Same as last summer then.
    Sounds like an obligation this time.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215
    kle4 said:

    Both of those things can be true. What is the implication here about specials? I think they are brilliant, and they are definitely on the front line.
    Regularly? It is at best misleading as it is probably not what most people thought was meant by saying 12 years of frontline policing. That he has quit shows that he must know it was misleading as well, else he'd brazen it out.

    But do parties not vet anymore?
    The Tories in Humberside? Not so much.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Kaboom!

    SNP vote down on both the constituency and list vote in new Holyrood Survation poll and Alba on just 3% on the list

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1377673249304276993?s=20

    What do Alba need to score for the AS plan to work?
    5-10%, SNP now barely above its 2016 constituency vote and significantly down on its 2016 list vote and at serious risk of failing to get an SNP majority
  • Options
    Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited April 2021
    What Israel really needs, is another election. That should settle it.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    What Israel really needs, is another election. That should settle it.
    Yes, it's a long time since the last one.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Kaboom!

    SNP vote down on both the constituency and list vote in new Holyrood Survation poll and Alba on just 3% on the list

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1377673249304276993?s=20

    What do Alba need to score for the AS plan to work?
    6%ish in each region before things start happening
This discussion has been closed.