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Boris’s Legacy? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited April 1 in General
imageBoris’s Legacy? – politicalbetting.com

The government’s vaccination programme has been one of the government’s undoubted successes.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,560
    test
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 1,319
    Boris’s legacy: the prime minister who oversaw disclosure.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/we-need-talk-about-ufos-again/?outputType=amp

    Really nothing else will matter much in the history books.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 64,166
    I know it is twitter and thus pretty nonsensical anyway, but that isn't very much is it?
    moonshine said:

    Boris’s legacy: the prime minister who oversaw disclosure.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/we-need-talk-about-ufos-again/?outputType=amp

    Really nothing else will matter much in the history books.

    I think in a previous thread you suggested people might not 'want' to accept that explanation and for that reason were resistant. On the contrary, that would be cool. It's just that until such a thing is definitively proven skepticism is reasonable.

    Would be a bit mean to announce right after we finally get some hardcore rovers on Mars.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 64,166
    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 39,776
    We'll probably lose our advantage. We should have been continued the work to have been world leaders in renewable energy, graphene, etc etc...
  • TimTTimT Posts: 3,334
    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    Or lessons will be learnt in the short-term and forgotten again in the medium- to long-term. That seems to be the case in industrial disasters.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 17,055
    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 1,319
    kle4 said:

    I know it is twitter and thus pretty nonsensical anyway, but that isn't very much is it?
    moonshine said:

    Boris’s legacy: the prime minister who oversaw disclosure.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/we-need-talk-about-ufos-again/?outputType=amp

    Really nothing else will matter much in the history books.

    I think in a previous thread you suggested people might not 'want' to accept that explanation and for that reason were resistant. On the contrary, that would be cool. It's just that until such a thing is definitively proven skepticism is reasonable.

    Would be a bit mean to announce right after we finally get some hardcore rovers on Mars.
    Yeah poor Musk. “Look! I made a reusable rocket to Mars”.

    US government: “Big deal, we have a spacetime warp drive that can take us to Zeta Reticuli”.

    On a more serious note, there’s a staggering sense of denial going on with this. The UK establishment might prefer this all remained unspoken and classified but for better or worse, Trump started the snowball rolling down the hill with the Pentagon video release, and it’s not going to stop until it absorbs the entire mountainside.

    I get that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But to take senior US officials at their public word, we have multi point evidence (eye witness, video, radar array, satellite) that UFO’s are real and are taking an active interest in our oceans and the world’s nuclear facilities. That they operate in a way that stretches our physics yet alone our own technology. Why would very senior people speaking in an official capacity (and countless juniors) make this up?

    This is covid all over again. In a year you will all claim you saw it coming.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 3,380
    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it is twitter and thus pretty nonsensical anyway, but that isn't very much is it?
    moonshine said:

    Boris’s legacy: the prime minister who oversaw disclosure.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/we-need-talk-about-ufos-again/?outputType=amp

    Really nothing else will matter much in the history books.

    I think in a previous thread you suggested people might not 'want' to accept that explanation and for that reason were resistant. On the contrary, that would be cool. It's just that until such a thing is definitively proven skepticism is reasonable.

    Would be a bit mean to announce right after we finally get some hardcore rovers on Mars.
    Yeah poor Musk. “Look! I made a reusable rocket to Mars”.

    US government: “Big deal, we have a spacetime warp drive that can take us to Zeta Reticuli”.

    On a more serious note, there’s a staggering sense of denial going on with this. The UK establishment might prefer this all remained unspoken and classified but for better or worse, Trump started the snowball rolling down the hill with the Pentagon video release, and it’s not going to stop until it absorbs the entire mountainside.

    I get that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But to take senior US officials at their public word, we have multi point evidence (eye witness, video, radar array, satellite) that UFO’s are real and are taking an active interest in our oceans and the world’s nuclear facilities. That they operate in a way that stretches our physics yet alone our own technology. Why would very senior people speaking in an official capacity (and countless juniors) make this up?

    This is covid all over again. In a year you will all claim you saw it coming.
    Dude. It's long after midday now.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 27,195
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 6,923
    FPT:
    felix said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I seem to remember some of the more ludicrous assertions on here we were going to get 10 million vaccinated before Christmas.

    I'm not due to get my second vaccination until the end of May - this wasn't by choice but the NHS website deliberately not offering a date less than 11 weeks after the first vaccination.

    Is it now being suggested having abandoned 3 weeks for 12 weeks (and that being shown to be a reasonable decision by the efficacy numbers), we now abandon the 12 week rule because we've ordered stupendously large amounts of vaccine?

    I don't think anyone is talking about changing the 12 week rule. It works, so why would they?
    It was something I inferred from some comments down the thread - the numbers show the gap in second vaccinations against first and the scale of what remains to be done. All of this makes the roadmap look entirely plausible and credible with a view to getting as many people as possible fully protected with two vaccinations by mid June.

    There seemed an idea we had large stocks of "spare" vaccine so the programme of second doses could be advanced.
    If there are spare vaccines the focus should be to give good immunisation with more first doses. That way you save more lives.
    As long as the 2nd doses remain within 10-11 weeks as per the treatment guidelines.

    Because we are very nearly into the groups where the risk of death is very low, and that needs to be balanced with the further risk to the vulnerable or old people who are still due their second dose.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 1,319
    edited April 1
    Endillion said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it is twitter and thus pretty nonsensical anyway, but that isn't very much is it?
    moonshine said:

    Boris’s legacy: the prime minister who oversaw disclosure.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/we-need-talk-about-ufos-again/?outputType=amp

    Really nothing else will matter much in the history books.

    I think in a previous thread you suggested people might not 'want' to accept that explanation and for that reason were resistant. On the contrary, that would be cool. It's just that until such a thing is definitively proven skepticism is reasonable.

    Would be a bit mean to announce right after we finally get some hardcore rovers on Mars.
    Yeah poor Musk. “Look! I made a reusable rocket to Mars”.

    US government: “Big deal, we have a spacetime warp drive that can take us to Zeta Reticuli”.

    On a more serious note, there’s a staggering sense of denial going on with this. The UK establishment might prefer this all remained unspoken and classified but for better or worse, Trump started the snowball rolling down the hill with the Pentagon video release, and it’s not going to stop until it absorbs the entire mountainside.

    I get that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But to take senior US officials at their public word, we have multi point evidence (eye witness, video, radar array, satellite) that UFO’s are real and are taking an active interest in our oceans and the world’s nuclear facilities. That they operate in a way that stretches our physics yet alone our own technology. Why would very senior people speaking in an official capacity (and countless juniors) make this up?

    This is covid all over again. In a year you will all claim you saw it coming.
    Dude. It's long after midday now.
    Go and educate yourself with what senior US officials have been freely saying on tv, what senators have been saying on the floor. I am doing you a big favour. For deluded reasons the UK government appears to think it can stick its fingers in its ears to an ongoing process of Disclosure in the US and not prepare the British public psychologically.

    Start to get your head around it a little. It will then come as less of a shock.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 30,288
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    Or we could fund the development of next generation PPE.
    Stuff like this, for example:
    https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2021/march/copper-foam-as-a-highly-efficient-durable-filter-for-reusable-masks-and-air-cleaners.html
  • MattWMattW Posts: 6,923
    In answer to the question, i don't know.

    I hope that task forces from the new Free Ports are talking to lots of companies with offers of support and attractive infrastructure (eg the UK expertise in trials and related databases, the rule of law which has been abandoned in Brussels, and the fact that a third of the top research Unis in Europe are in the UK), and a note about the 130% Capital Allowances.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 30,288
    Good header by Cycefree.
    As she points out, there's thus far little evidence of coherent thinking about research funding, with semi-random cuts at the same time as we're proclaiming a massive increase in investment.

    The idea is great; I am sceptical about the execution.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,383
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    One of the things I want looked at is the throw away culture for PPE - would it be better to go with re-usable protective systems? Even reusable filters?

    This might also have some interaction with fit, comfort and the integration between the various parts of the PPE systems.

    Some of the pictures of medics wearing stuff has looked patchy in coverage, lots of gaps and also cumbersome to wear.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 17,055
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 27,195
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    Or we could fund the development of next generation PPE.
    Stuff like this, for example:
    https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2021/march/copper-foam-as-a-highly-efficient-durable-filter-for-reusable-masks-and-air-cleaners.html
    I'm sure we could, I have my doubts though as some bean counter in the treasury will say it's 3p cheaper to import shite from China so why spend the extra.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,520
    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it is twitter and thus pretty nonsensical anyway, but that isn't very much is it?
    moonshine said:

    Boris’s legacy: the prime minister who oversaw disclosure.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/we-need-talk-about-ufos-again/?outputType=amp

    Really nothing else will matter much in the history books.

    I think in a previous thread you suggested people might not 'want' to accept that explanation and for that reason were resistant. On the contrary, that would be cool. It's just that until such a thing is definitively proven skepticism is reasonable.

    Would be a bit mean to announce right after we finally get some hardcore rovers on Mars.
    Yeah poor Musk. “Look! I made a reusable rocket to Mars”.

    US government: “Big deal, we have a spacetime warp drive that can take us to Zeta Reticuli”.

    On a more serious note, there’s a staggering sense of denial going on with this. The UK establishment might prefer this all remained unspoken and classified but for better or worse, Trump started the snowball rolling down the hill with the Pentagon video release, and it’s not going to stop until it absorbs the entire mountainside.

    I get that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But to take senior US officials at their public word, we have multi point evidence (eye witness, video, radar array, satellite) that UFO’s are real and are taking an active interest in our oceans and the world’s nuclear facilities. That they operate in a way that stretches our physics yet alone our own technology. Why would very senior people speaking in an official capacity (and countless juniors) make this up?

    This is covid all over again. In a year you will all claim you saw it coming.
    Well that's all well and good, Moonshine, but have you placed a bet on it, and if so where and at what odds?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 30,288
    OT... in the US, vaccine scepticism among Black Americans has dropped significantly.
    Republican resistance to vaccination has, if anything, solidified:
    https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/poll-finding/kff-covid-19-vaccine-monitor-march-2021/
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 6,568
    edited April 1
    Interesting if, like me, you are “in” to geopolitics.

    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1377618991787737090?s=21
    TLDR:

    1. Brexit has itself made the Commission more powerful by removing a break on federalism.

    2. Brexit exposed a legitimacy question for the EU which it is trying to fill through greater protectionism (in turn making it more a rival than a collaborator of the UK’s)

    3. As the US turns to Asia, Brexit forces Continental Europe to look ever more towards Eurasia. The Western Alliance is dissolving; London’s role is awkward and exposed.

    I don’t remember seeing any of this on the side of a bus, but I do recall Cameron being roundly mocked for noting that our EU membership was a safeguard of stability.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,058
    Yesterday Nicola Sturgeon wouldn't rule out working with Salmond/Alba, and then today she is ruling it out. Tune in tomorrow for her latest position on the issue..
  • felixfelix Posts: 12,607
    MattW said:

    FPT:

    felix said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I seem to remember some of the more ludicrous assertions on here we were going to get 10 million vaccinated before Christmas.

    I'm not due to get my second vaccination until the end of May - this wasn't by choice but the NHS website deliberately not offering a date less than 11 weeks after the first vaccination.

    Is it now being suggested having abandoned 3 weeks for 12 weeks (and that being shown to be a reasonable decision by the efficacy numbers), we now abandon the 12 week rule because we've ordered stupendously large amounts of vaccine?

    I don't think anyone is talking about changing the 12 week rule. It works, so why would they?
    It was something I inferred from some comments down the thread - the numbers show the gap in second vaccinations against first and the scale of what remains to be done. All of this makes the roadmap look entirely plausible and credible with a view to getting as many people as possible fully protected with two vaccinations by mid June.

    There seemed an idea we had large stocks of "spare" vaccine so the programme of second doses could be advanced.
    If there are spare vaccines the focus should be to give good immunisation with more first doses. That way you save more lives.
    As long as the 2nd doses remain within 10-11 weeks as per the treatment guidelines.

    Because we are very nearly into the groups where the risk of death is very low, and that needs to be balanced with the further risk to the vulnerable or old people who are still due their second dose.
    We have seen the figures today from France of the numbers of young people in ICU and of the effects of Long Covid stretching into the millions. I agree about balance but despite being an oldie myself I would still be focused on as many first doses as possible - the death rates on those jabbed once, even if very old, appear to be extremely low. I certainly see no need to speed up second doses for the elderly to below the 12 week limit. That just seems to me selfish. Living in Spain where millions of vaccines are held back to do second doses more quickly I perhaps feel it more keenly.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 3,334
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    Or we could fund the development of next generation PPE.
    Stuff like this, for example:
    https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2021/march/copper-foam-as-a-highly-efficient-durable-filter-for-reusable-masks-and-air-cleaners.html
    I am sure it will be a bit of both. We'll develop some new materials and technologies, which will be on-shored until they become commoditized, at which point budgets will seek out the cheapest option, and we'll over time forget about strategic supply lines, then strategic production capacity, and then with further time, forget about strategic materials reserves.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 30,288

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    One of the things I want looked at is the throw away culture for PPE - would it be better to go with re-usable protective systems? Even reusable filters?
    See the link I posted above.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 26,443
    What's BJ's legacy and how many kids will it have to be shared round?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 8,171
    edited April 1
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    Which might of course be rational. I was reading an article the other day which showed that humans (and governments) massively underestimate the chances of specific black swans (such as 9-11 and covid) happening once; then massively overestimate the chances of them happening again. Apparently 9/11 cost al-Queda about £500,000 but the post-event countermeasures by the US totalled billions.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 6,923
    felix said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    felix said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I seem to remember some of the more ludicrous assertions on here we were going to get 10 million vaccinated before Christmas.

    I'm not due to get my second vaccination until the end of May - this wasn't by choice but the NHS website deliberately not offering a date less than 11 weeks after the first vaccination.

    Is it now being suggested having abandoned 3 weeks for 12 weeks (and that being shown to be a reasonable decision by the efficacy numbers), we now abandon the 12 week rule because we've ordered stupendously large amounts of vaccine?

    I don't think anyone is talking about changing the 12 week rule. It works, so why would they?
    It was something I inferred from some comments down the thread - the numbers show the gap in second vaccinations against first and the scale of what remains to be done. All of this makes the roadmap look entirely plausible and credible with a view to getting as many people as possible fully protected with two vaccinations by mid June.

    There seemed an idea we had large stocks of "spare" vaccine so the programme of second doses could be advanced.
    If there are spare vaccines the focus should be to give good immunisation with more first doses. That way you save more lives.
    As long as the 2nd doses remain within 10-11 weeks as per the treatment guidelines.

    Because we are very nearly into the groups where the risk of death is very low, and that needs to be balanced with the further risk to the vulnerable or old people who are still due their second dose.
    We have seen the figures today from France of the numbers of young people in ICU and of the effects of Long Covid stretching into the millions. I agree about balance but despite being an oldie myself I would still be focused on as many first doses as possible - the death rates on those jabbed once, even if very old, appear to be extremely low. I certainly see no need to speed up second doses for the elderly to below the 12 week limit. That just seems to me selfish. Living in Spain where millions of vaccines are held back to do second doses more quickly I perhaps feel it more keenly.
    My expectation is that we have the numbers of vaccines to make very good progress on both, subject perhaps to Novavax extra delays due to bring the F&F into GSK.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 30,288
    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it is twitter and thus pretty nonsensical anyway, but that isn't very much is it?
    moonshine said:

    Boris’s legacy: the prime minister who oversaw disclosure.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/we-need-talk-about-ufos-again/?outputType=amp

    Really nothing else will matter much in the history books.

    I think in a previous thread you suggested people might not 'want' to accept that explanation and for that reason were resistant. On the contrary, that would be cool. It's just that until such a thing is definitively proven skepticism is reasonable.

    Would be a bit mean to announce right after we finally get some hardcore rovers on Mars.
    Yeah poor Musk. “Look! I made a reusable rocket to Mars”.....
    Por Musk will only start worrying about it when your extraterrestrial mates start competing with him to launch comms satellites.
    A few random sightings don't count.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 1,319
    Cookie said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it is twitter and thus pretty nonsensical anyway, but that isn't very much is it?
    moonshine said:

    Boris’s legacy: the prime minister who oversaw disclosure.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/we-need-talk-about-ufos-again/?outputType=amp

    Really nothing else will matter much in the history books.

    I think in a previous thread you suggested people might not 'want' to accept that explanation and for that reason were resistant. On the contrary, that would be cool. It's just that until such a thing is definitively proven skepticism is reasonable.

    Would be a bit mean to announce right after we finally get some hardcore rovers on Mars.
    Yeah poor Musk. “Look! I made a reusable rocket to Mars”.

    US government: “Big deal, we have a spacetime warp drive that can take us to Zeta Reticuli”.

    On a more serious note, there’s a staggering sense of denial going on with this. The UK establishment might prefer this all remained unspoken and classified but for better or worse, Trump started the snowball rolling down the hill with the Pentagon video release, and it’s not going to stop until it absorbs the entire mountainside.

    I get that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But to take senior US officials at their public word, we have multi point evidence (eye witness, video, radar array, satellite) that UFO’s are real and are taking an active interest in our oceans and the world’s nuclear facilities. That they operate in a way that stretches our physics yet alone our own technology. Why would very senior people speaking in an official capacity (and countless juniors) make this up?

    This is covid all over again. In a year you will all claim you saw it coming.
    Well that's all well and good, Moonshine, but have you placed a bet on it, and if so where and at what odds?
    Show me where with the terms and I will. It’s been driving me mad that I can’t find a way to monetise being ahead of the curve on this, in the way it was so easy with stock put options for covid.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 1,319
    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it is twitter and thus pretty nonsensical anyway, but that isn't very much is it?
    moonshine said:

    Boris’s legacy: the prime minister who oversaw disclosure.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/we-need-talk-about-ufos-again/?outputType=amp

    Really nothing else will matter much in the history books.

    I think in a previous thread you suggested people might not 'want' to accept that explanation and for that reason were resistant. On the contrary, that would be cool. It's just that until such a thing is definitively proven skepticism is reasonable.

    Would be a bit mean to announce right after we finally get some hardcore rovers on Mars.
    Yeah poor Musk. “Look! I made a reusable rocket to Mars”.....
    Por Musk will only start worrying about it when your extraterrestrial mates start competing with him to launch comms satellites.
    A few random sightings don't count.
    What reason would the bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee have for making up that the US does not have air supremacy over its military assets, including nuclear bases?
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,099
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    Or we could fund the development of next generation PPE.
    Stuff like this, for example:
    https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2021/march/copper-foam-as-a-highly-efficient-durable-filter-for-reusable-masks-and-air-cleaners.html
    I have a couple of those masks. They may very well be effective at blocking viruses but they also make breathing more difficult.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 31,031

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    One of the things I want looked at is the throw away culture for PPE - would it be better to go with re-usable protective systems? Even reusable filters?

    This might also have some interaction with fit, comfort and the integration between the various parts of the PPE systems.

    Some of the pictures of medics wearing stuff has looked patchy in coverage, lots of gaps and also cumbersome to wear.
    Single use surgical drapes and gowns have a lot lower cross contamination issues as well as being significantly cheaper and easier to handle
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,383
    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    Or we could fund the development of next generation PPE.
    Stuff like this, for example:
    https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2021/march/copper-foam-as-a-highly-efficient-durable-filter-for-reusable-masks-and-air-cleaners.html
    I am sure it will be a bit of both. We'll develop some new materials and technologies, which will be on-shored until they become commoditized, at which point budgets will seek out the cheapest option, and we'll over time forget about strategic supply lines, then strategic production capacity, and then with further time, forget about strategic materials reserves.
    There have already been some mutterings (unbelievably) about "Little Englanderism" in some government procurement. Apparently the requirement for a proven onshore manufacturing chain is "onerous" and "not sustainable".
  • eekeek Posts: 11,737
    slade said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    Or we could fund the development of next generation PPE.
    Stuff like this, for example:
    https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2021/march/copper-foam-as-a-highly-efficient-durable-filter-for-reusable-masks-and-air-cleaners.html
    I have a couple of those masks. They may very well be effective at blocking viruses but they also make breathing more difficult.
    We have reusable masks that Mrs Eek made - paper ones are far more wearable if you have to wear them for any length of time.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 431
    edited April 1
    Just received my poll card for the May locals and my usual quirky polling station of "Portable building on land" (as it says on the tin) isn't being used this year! We've been sent to the local community centre a few streets away.

    Sad, but not surprised, as I suppose a rented portacabin plonked on the edge of a non descript bit of grass in the neighbourhood isn't very COVID secure.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,383
    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    One of the things I want looked at is the throw away culture for PPE - would it be better to go with re-usable protective systems? Even reusable filters?

    This might also have some interaction with fit, comfort and the integration between the various parts of the PPE systems.

    Some of the pictures of medics wearing stuff has looked patchy in coverage, lots of gaps and also cumbersome to wear.
    Single use surgical drapes and gowns have a lot lower cross contamination issues as well as being significantly cheaper and easier to handle
    With current materials - possibly. But one interesting advance, as a result of the chemicals revolution, is materials that can have long life and survive exposure to suitable cleaning agents.

    So PPE you can dump into a bin full of a disinfectant, without it falling to bits?

    Similarly, with mask technology, it may well be possible to design easy to disinfect systems that are re-usable.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,383
    UK cases by specimen date

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,383
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K population

    image
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 21,966
    This too, will pass. The one big success of the Covid episode so far has been vaccines. Yes, we're ahead at the moment but pretty soon the rest of the world will catch up and the virus will be history, or at least manageable.

    Then the corruption, cronyism and general dishonesty which is the hallmark of this government will be the day to day matter for discussion.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 39,776
    Daily deaths average this past week is down to 45.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 3,380

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    Which might of course be rational. I was reading an article the other day which showed that humans (and governments) massively underestimate the chances of specific black swans (such as 9-11 and covid) happening once; then massively overestimate the chances of them happening again. Apparently 9/11 cost al-Queda about £500,000 but the post-event countermeasures by the US totalled billions.
    Terrorism isn't really a "black swan" event in the traditional sense, because it isn't random, so assuming another attack is perfectly reasonable. The issue with pandemics is that they aren't man-made events (at least not in the traditional sense of being orchestrated) so are much harder to predict.

    The issue we have is that it is highly likely that the next pandemic will look nothing like the current one, whereas human instinct is always to prepare for the last war, so we run the risk of our preparations being essentially worthless at best and counterproductive at worst. Which is a long winded way of saying I agree that a PPE strategic reserve is potentially not cost effective, and the lessons we should (but won't) take from this are more around agility and quick decision making than specific actions to prepare us in practical terms.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 21,966
    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    On cyclefree's question, no this time will not be different. I think the odds of us learning lessons from the positive and negative things around Covid, are a lot lower than people think, in the moment.

    You can guarantee that all parties will commit to spending on pandemic preparedness following the next election. And then as the years go by, that budget will be chipped away at.
    Yup, when we're 5 years into no pandemic a future government will look at the £1bn being spent on keeping a PPE strategic manufacturing reserve alive and say fuck it, I want that for a tax cut/spending rise.
    One of the things I want looked at is the throw away culture for PPE - would it be better to go with re-usable protective systems? Even reusable filters?

    This might also have some interaction with fit, comfort and the integration between the various parts of the PPE systems.

    Some of the pictures of medics wearing stuff has looked patchy in coverage, lots of gaps and also cumbersome to wear.
    Single use surgical drapes and gowns have a lot lower cross contamination issues as well as being significantly cheaper and easier to handle
    More comfortable, IIRC, to wear, too.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,383
    UK case summary

    image
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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,383
    UK deaths

    image
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  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,520
    moonshine said:

    Cookie said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it is twitter and thus pretty nonsensical anyway, but that isn't very much is it?
    moonshine said:

    Boris’s legacy: the prime minister who oversaw disclosure.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/we-need-talk-about-ufos-again/?outputType=amp

    Really nothing else will matter much in the history books.

    I think in a previous thread you suggested people might not 'want' to accept that explanation and for that reason were resistant. On the contrary, that would be cool. It's just that until such a thing is definitively proven skepticism is reasonable.

    Would be a bit mean to announce right after we finally get some hardcore rovers on Mars.
    Yeah poor Musk. “Look! I made a reusable rocket to Mars”.

    US government: “Big deal, we have a spacetime warp drive that can take us to Zeta Reticuli”.

    On a more serious note, there’s a staggering sense of denial going on with this. The UK establishment might prefer this all remained unspoken and classified but for better or worse, Trump started the snowball rolling down the hill with the Pentagon video release, and it’s not going to stop until it absorbs the entire mountainside.

    I get that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But to take senior US officials at their public word, we have multi point evidence (eye witness, video, radar array, satellite) that UFO’s are real and are taking an active interest in our oceans and the world’s nuclear facilities. That they operate in a way that stretches our physics yet alone our own technology. Why would very senior people speaking in an official capacity (and countless juniors) make this up?

    This is covid all over again. In a year you will all claim you saw it coming.
    Well that's all well and good, Moonshine, but have you placed a bet on it, and if so where and at what odds?
    Show me where with the terms and I will. It’s been driving me mad that I can’t find a way to monetise being ahead of the curve on this, in the way it was so easy with stock put options for covid.
    I was hoping you would tell me!
    (I'm not, for the record, convinced we'll see alien life confirmed this year or next. I do think it's more likely than commonly supposed - though to confirm that I'd have to know how commonly supposed it was.)

    My guess is that the odds of proving extra-terrestrial life of some sort (I'm not saying intelligent) within the next decade is about evens. If I could find something more favourable than that I might have a pop.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,383
    UK hospitals

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,383
    UK R

    from cases

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    from hospitalisations

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  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,153
    RH1992 said:

    Just received my poll card for the May locals and my usual quirky polling station of "Portable building on land" (as it says on the tin) isn't being used this year! We've been sent to the local community centre a few streets away.

    Sad, but not surprised, as I suppose a rented portacabin plonked on the edge of a non descript bit of grass in the neighbourhood isn't very COVID secure.

    We’ve been moved from the local junior school. I guess someone thought continuity of education and avoiding cross contamination was more important than the PCC election.

    In fairness it being sports day in that primary school would have been more important than the PCC election.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 47,568
    Cases starting to fall faster:


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,383
    Age related data

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  • kjhkjh Posts: 3,008
    tlg86 said:
    Around our way the Easter bunny makes more frequent trips.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 21,432
    edited April 1

    Interesting if, like me, you are “in” to geopolitics.

    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1377618991787737090?s=21
    TLDR:

    1. Brexit has itself made the Commission more powerful by removing a break on federalism.

    2. Brexit exposed a legitimacy question for the EU which it is trying to fill through greater protectionism (in turn making it more a rival than a collaborator of the UK’s)

    3. As the US turns to Asia, Brexit forces Continental Europe to look ever more towards Eurasia. The Western Alliance is dissolving; London’s role is awkward and exposed.

    I don’t remember seeing any of this on the side of a bus, but I do recall Cameron being roundly mocked for noting that our EU membership was a safeguard of stability.

    Or alternatively

    1. The push for federalism will become overt and will either make or break the EU as it has to face up to its inherent contradictions. We get to buy popcorn

    2.The UK will onshore more of its vital needs and seek alternatives to a protectionist EU


    3. The EU wlll sell itself to Putin for his gas and London will make a fortune off the proceeds.


    None of that was on the side of a bus either.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,383
    Age related data - scaled to 100K population per group

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  • stodgestodge Posts: 8,279
    Late afternoon all :)

    Decided to go and sit out in the garden on my afternoon off - freezing cold wind picked up. I don't know who all these people are who are enjoying the "great outdoors" but it's not really outdoor weather now.

    On topic, strange to be talking about a Prime Minister's legacy less than two years into the job and especially as some on here seem convinced he will be around for a decade before handing over to Rishi who will be PM for another decade and a half etc, etc.

    How many Prime Ministers leave meaningful legacies? Very few, I'd argue - when I think of John Major, I think of the Cones Hotline. When I think of Tony Blair, it's Iraq, For Gordon Brown, it's the global financial crash, for Cameron the EU referendum and for Theresa May, the near destruction of the Conservative Party (you so nearly got there, Theresa, one more push and the whole lot would have collapsed).

    I suspect Boris's legacy will be equally anodyne - it might even be Covid. I suspect it will be something else in the next two or three years. His political career will end in failure just like everyone else's.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,383
    UK vaccinations

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,383
    England CFR

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 91,669
    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 20,024
    Really interesting header. Can our vaccine MO be rolled out to other areas then? Sounds great - because you can learn from success as well as failure - but is that an actual plan or more of a "thing being said"?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 21,432

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Maybe they had a loan from Greensill ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 91,669

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Maybe they had a loan from Greensill ?
    Unlikely.

    I wonder if any government money has been spent trying to deal with Boris Johnson's inability to keep the snake inside the pet shop.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 64,166

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Even with his divorces and kids he should be able to pay his own bills with all he's received.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 91,669
    kle4 said:

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Even with his divorces and kids he should be able to pay his own bills with all he's received.
    I actually know an author and they said one thing to me years ago which has alway stuck in my head.

    The latest book an author has published pays the tax for their last book, the moment you stop writing new books you're screwed.

    For some reason that revelation makes me think of Boris Johnson.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 21,432
    edited April 1

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Maybe they had a loan from Greensill ?
    Unlikely.

    I wonder if any government money has been spent trying to deal with Boris Johnson's inability to keep the snake inside the pet shop.
    The man does his utmost to ensure there's a next generation of brits big enough pay your pension and all you do is criticise him

    Really we should put our PM out to stud in Scotland and safeguard the Union..
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 91,669

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Maybe they had a loan from Greensill ?
    Unlikely.

    I wonder if any government money has been spent trying to deal with Boris Johnson's inability to keep the snake inside the pet shop.
    The man does his utmost to ensure there's a next generation of brits big enough pay your pension and all you di is criticise him

    Really we should put our PM out to stud in Scotland and safeguard the Union..
    Not such a good idea, a few months ago I read that he was barely on speaking terms with most of the kids he had with Marina Wheeler for the way he treated their mother.

    Putting him out to stud in Scotland might be a mistake plus he doesn't give two hoots about the Union, as we saw with the no border down the Irish Sea.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 5,378

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Maybe they had a loan from Greensill ?
    Unlikely.

    I wonder if any government money has been spent trying to deal with Boris Johnson's inability to keep the snake inside the pet shop.
    The man does his utmost to ensure there's a next generation of brits big enough pay your pension and all you do is criticise him

    Really we should put our PM out to stud in Scotland and safeguard the Union..
    He has the highland cattle hairstyle already.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 21,432

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Maybe they had a loan from Greensill ?
    Unlikely.

    I wonder if any government money has been spent trying to deal with Boris Johnson's inability to keep the snake inside the pet shop.
    The man does his utmost to ensure there's a next generation of brits big enough pay your pension and all you di is criticise him

    Really we should put our PM out to stud in Scotland and safeguard the Union..
    Not such a good idea, a few months ago I read that he was barely on speaking terms with most of the kids he had with Marina Wheeler for the way he treated their mother.

    Putting him out to stud in Scotland might be a mistake plus he doesn't give two hoots about the Union, as we saw with the no border down the Irish Sea.
    You fail to understand the Celts.

    The more you piss them off the more they have to hang in there to get revenge from the english taxpayer.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 3,380
    moonshine said:

    Endillion said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it is twitter and thus pretty nonsensical anyway, but that isn't very much is it?
    moonshine said:

    Boris’s legacy: the prime minister who oversaw disclosure.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/we-need-talk-about-ufos-again/?outputType=amp

    Really nothing else will matter much in the history books.

    I think in a previous thread you suggested people might not 'want' to accept that explanation and for that reason were resistant. On the contrary, that would be cool. It's just that until such a thing is definitively proven skepticism is reasonable.

    Would be a bit mean to announce right after we finally get some hardcore rovers on Mars.
    Yeah poor Musk. “Look! I made a reusable rocket to Mars”.

    US government: “Big deal, we have a spacetime warp drive that can take us to Zeta Reticuli”.

    On a more serious note, there’s a staggering sense of denial going on with this. The UK establishment might prefer this all remained unspoken and classified but for better or worse, Trump started the snowball rolling down the hill with the Pentagon video release, and it’s not going to stop until it absorbs the entire mountainside.

    I get that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But to take senior US officials at their public word, we have multi point evidence (eye witness, video, radar array, satellite) that UFO’s are real and are taking an active interest in our oceans and the world’s nuclear facilities. That they operate in a way that stretches our physics yet alone our own technology. Why would very senior people speaking in an official capacity (and countless juniors) make this up?

    This is covid all over again. In a year you will all claim you saw it coming.
    Dude. It's long after midday now.
    Go and educate yourself with what senior US officials have been freely saying on tv, what senators have been saying on the floor. I am doing you a big favour. For deluded reasons the UK government appears to think it can stick its fingers in its ears to an ongoing process of Disclosure in the US and not prepare the British public psychologically.

    Start to get your head around it a little. It will then come as less of a shock.
    I assume I'm late to this and everyone else has just learnt to ignore you on this, but I'm bored so I'll bite:

    Are these the same US senators who believe in Young Earth Creationism? Or the anti-vaxxers?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 91,669
    This maybe his legacy.

    Show your papers or you can't go to the Docs, the supermarkets, or the pub.

    Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

    Covid status certificates, available to those who have been vaccinated, recently tested negative or who have developed antibodies after contracting the virus, are being taken increasingly seriously at the top of government as a way of aiding the unlocking of the economy.

    Just over five weeks ago Johnson announced that Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, would lead a review of the issue. While he was not expected to report until mid-June, the prime minister is expected to provide a “high-level direction of travel” update on certificates on Monday. If he says that he sees a role for passports, the Gove review will continue to June, focusing on solving practical difficulties.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 14,294
    edited April 1
    On single use vs reusable in a medical and pharmaceutical setting you have to consider the energy/carbon cost of autoclaving or steam sterilising. It isn't cheap.

    This is what I used to do for a job.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 91,669

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Maybe they had a loan from Greensill ?
    Unlikely.

    I wonder if any government money has been spent trying to deal with Boris Johnson's inability to keep the snake inside the pet shop.
    The man does his utmost to ensure there's a next generation of brits big enough pay your pension and all you di is criticise him

    Really we should put our PM out to stud in Scotland and safeguard the Union..
    Not such a good idea, a few months ago I read that he was barely on speaking terms with most of the kids he had with Marina Wheeler for the way he treated their mother.

    Putting him out to stud in Scotland might be a mistake plus he doesn't give two hoots about the Union, as we saw with the no border down the Irish Sea.
    You fail to understand the Celts.

    The more you piss them off the more they have to hang in there to get revenge from the english taxpayer.
    England says No!

    Remember your fellow Brexiteers are prepared to give up the Union.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 1,319
    Endillion said:

    moonshine said:

    Endillion said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it is twitter and thus pretty nonsensical anyway, but that isn't very much is it?
    moonshine said:

    Boris’s legacy: the prime minister who oversaw disclosure.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/we-need-talk-about-ufos-again/?outputType=amp

    Really nothing else will matter much in the history books.

    I think in a previous thread you suggested people might not 'want' to accept that explanation and for that reason were resistant. On the contrary, that would be cool. It's just that until such a thing is definitively proven skepticism is reasonable.

    Would be a bit mean to announce right after we finally get some hardcore rovers on Mars.
    Yeah poor Musk. “Look! I made a reusable rocket to Mars”.

    US government: “Big deal, we have a spacetime warp drive that can take us to Zeta Reticuli”.

    On a more serious note, there’s a staggering sense of denial going on with this. The UK establishment might prefer this all remained unspoken and classified but for better or worse, Trump started the snowball rolling down the hill with the Pentagon video release, and it’s not going to stop until it absorbs the entire mountainside.

    I get that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But to take senior US officials at their public word, we have multi point evidence (eye witness, video, radar array, satellite) that UFO’s are real and are taking an active interest in our oceans and the world’s nuclear facilities. That they operate in a way that stretches our physics yet alone our own technology. Why would very senior people speaking in an official capacity (and countless juniors) make this up?

    This is covid all over again. In a year you will all claim you saw it coming.
    Dude. It's long after midday now.
    Go and educate yourself with what senior US officials have been freely saying on tv, what senators have been saying on the floor. I am doing you a big favour. For deluded reasons the UK government appears to think it can stick its fingers in its ears to an ongoing process of Disclosure in the US and not prepare the British public psychologically.

    Start to get your head around it a little. It will then come as less of a shock.
    I assume I'm late to this and everyone else has just learnt to ignore you on this, but I'm bored so I'll bite:

    Are these the same US senators who believe in Young Earth Creationism? Or the anti-vaxxers?
    Is the whole senate committee packed full of creationists? Is Harry Reid a creationist?

    “I don’t like the religious and social views of person X”. Therefore I will ignore what they say about everything, as well as ignore people who I normally agree with when they say the same things as person X.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 21,432

    This maybe his legacy.

    Show your papers or you can't go to the Docs, the supermarkets, or the pub.

    Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

    Covid status certificates, available to those who have been vaccinated, recently tested negative or who have developed antibodies after contracting the virus, are being taken increasingly seriously at the top of government as a way of aiding the unlocking of the economy.

    Just over five weeks ago Johnson announced that Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, would lead a review of the issue. While he was not expected to report until mid-June, the prime minister is expected to provide a “high-level direction of travel” update on certificates on Monday. If he says that he sees a role for passports, the Gove review will continue to June, focusing on solving practical difficulties.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

    Sheesh, one minute you're telling me you want to be more European next youre saying you're against continental lifestyles.

    Make your mind up.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 91,669

    On single use vs reusable in a medical and pharmaceutical setting you have to consider the energy/carbon cost of autoclaving. It isn't cheap.

    This is what I used to do for a job.

    Thank goodness you left the world of healthcare for that noblest of all professions, the law.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 3,380
    moonshine said:

    Endillion said:

    moonshine said:

    Endillion said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it is twitter and thus pretty nonsensical anyway, but that isn't very much is it?
    moonshine said:

    Boris’s legacy: the prime minister who oversaw disclosure.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/we-need-talk-about-ufos-again/?outputType=amp

    Really nothing else will matter much in the history books.

    I think in a previous thread you suggested people might not 'want' to accept that explanation and for that reason were resistant. On the contrary, that would be cool. It's just that until such a thing is definitively proven skepticism is reasonable.

    Would be a bit mean to announce right after we finally get some hardcore rovers on Mars.
    Yeah poor Musk. “Look! I made a reusable rocket to Mars”.

    US government: “Big deal, we have a spacetime warp drive that can take us to Zeta Reticuli”.

    On a more serious note, there’s a staggering sense of denial going on with this. The UK establishment might prefer this all remained unspoken and classified but for better or worse, Trump started the snowball rolling down the hill with the Pentagon video release, and it’s not going to stop until it absorbs the entire mountainside.

    I get that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But to take senior US officials at their public word, we have multi point evidence (eye witness, video, radar array, satellite) that UFO’s are real and are taking an active interest in our oceans and the world’s nuclear facilities. That they operate in a way that stretches our physics yet alone our own technology. Why would very senior people speaking in an official capacity (and countless juniors) make this up?

    This is covid all over again. In a year you will all claim you saw it coming.
    Dude. It's long after midday now.
    Go and educate yourself with what senior US officials have been freely saying on tv, what senators have been saying on the floor. I am doing you a big favour. For deluded reasons the UK government appears to think it can stick its fingers in its ears to an ongoing process of Disclosure in the US and not prepare the British public psychologically.

    Start to get your head around it a little. It will then come as less of a shock.
    I assume I'm late to this and everyone else has just learnt to ignore you on this, but I'm bored so I'll bite:

    Are these the same US senators who believe in Young Earth Creationism? Or the anti-vaxxers?
    Is the whole senate committee packed full of creationists? Is Harry Reid a creationist?

    “I don’t like the religious and social views of person X”. Therefore I will ignore what they say about everything, as well as ignore people who I normally agree with when they say the same things as person X.
    You're the one who started the appeal to authority. I'm just pointing out that, in addition to that being a logical fallacy at the best of times, the authority in question is oftentimes a complete moron.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 21,432

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Maybe they had a loan from Greensill ?
    Unlikely.

    I wonder if any government money has been spent trying to deal with Boris Johnson's inability to keep the snake inside the pet shop.
    The man does his utmost to ensure there's a next generation of brits big enough pay your pension and all you di is criticise him

    Really we should put our PM out to stud in Scotland and safeguard the Union..
    Not such a good idea, a few months ago I read that he was barely on speaking terms with most of the kids he had with Marina Wheeler for the way he treated their mother.

    Putting him out to stud in Scotland might be a mistake plus he doesn't give two hoots about the Union, as we saw with the no border down the Irish Sea.
    You fail to understand the Celts.

    The more you piss them off the more they have to hang in there to get revenge from the english taxpayer.
    England says No!

    Remember your fellow Brexiteers are prepared to give up the Union.
    Yes, that would be the European Union obvs
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 27,195

    This maybe his legacy.

    Show your papers or you can't go to the Docs, the supermarkets, or the pub.

    Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

    Covid status certificates, available to those who have been vaccinated, recently tested negative or who have developed antibodies after contracting the virus, are being taken increasingly seriously at the top of government as a way of aiding the unlocking of the economy.

    Just over five weeks ago Johnson announced that Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, would lead a review of the issue. While he was not expected to report until mid-June, the prime minister is expected to provide a “high-level direction of travel” update on certificates on Monday. If he says that he sees a role for passports, the Gove review will continue to June, focusing on solving practical difficulties.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

    If Starmer really is opposed I don't see how they'll get through the house, the Tory rebels will easily defeat the government on it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 64,166

    On single use vs reusable in a medical and pharmaceutical setting you have to consider the energy/carbon cost of autoclaving. It isn't cheap.

    This is what I used to do for a job.

    Thank goodness you left the world of healthcare for that noblest of all professions, the law.
    Well it's good at telling us how noble it is at least.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 40,099

    This maybe his legacy.

    Show your papers or you can't go to the Docs, the supermarkets, or the pub.

    Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

    Covid status certificates, available to those who have been vaccinated, recently tested negative or who have developed antibodies after contracting the virus, are being taken increasingly seriously at the top of government as a way of aiding the unlocking of the economy.

    Just over five weeks ago Johnson announced that Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, would lead a review of the issue. While he was not expected to report until mid-June, the prime minister is expected to provide a “high-level direction of travel” update on certificates on Monday. If he says that he sees a role for passports, the Gove review will continue to June, focusing on solving practical difficulties.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

    Sheesh, one minute you're telling me you want to be more European next youre saying you're against continental lifestyles.

    Make your mind up.
    "If he says that he sees a role for passports"

    Then Gove will be asked to work out how the hell he gets it through the Commons if Starmer comes good and holds back his support for this mad idea.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 27,195

    On single use vs reusable in a medical and pharmaceutical setting you have to consider the energy/carbon cost of autoclaving or steam sterilising. It isn't cheap.

    This is what I used to do for a job.

    Steam would be seriously impractical too, what about x-rays or microwaves?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 9,508

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Its not like his impropriety is a surprise
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 40,099
    "Lockdowns are unlikely to be needed again as Britain learns to treat coronavirus like flu, Prof Chris Whitty has said."

    Telegraph blog


    Hurrah! No time for the zero covid zealots.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 64,166
    Scott_xP said:
    I've never liked when things which are to be subject to votes in the House in some way (I assume that is the case here) are phrased as though it is going against MPs. Happened a lot during various Brexit votes, where obviously there were defeats for the government, but there would be summaries saying things like it was a victory for MPs or the House, when the exact same summary would apply if the government won the vote. There may well be resistance from MPs, but if the government wins the day it wasn't very notable resistance, at least from the Tory side.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 21,432

    This maybe his legacy.

    Show your papers or you can't go to the Docs, the supermarkets, or the pub.

    Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

    Covid status certificates, available to those who have been vaccinated, recently tested negative or who have developed antibodies after contracting the virus, are being taken increasingly seriously at the top of government as a way of aiding the unlocking of the economy.

    Just over five weeks ago Johnson announced that Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, would lead a review of the issue. While he was not expected to report until mid-June, the prime minister is expected to provide a “high-level direction of travel” update on certificates on Monday. If he says that he sees a role for passports, the Gove review will continue to June, focusing on solving practical difficulties.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

    Sheesh, one minute you're telling me you want to be more European next youre saying you're against continental lifestyles.

    Make your mind up.
    "If he says that he sees a role for passports"

    Then Gove will be asked to work out how the hell he gets it through the Commons if Starmer comes good and holds back his support for this mad idea.
    Oh they'll regally screw it up and then BoJo will do his "oh I left my head at home" shtick and it will all get dropped.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 64,166

    Wait, what was done with Tory money?

    Tories used party funds to cover Boris Johnson's legal bills over Jennifer Arcuri affair

    Tory chiefs used party funds to pay Boris Johnson's legal bills, it emerged

    Party co-chairman is said to have approved payments to the PM's lawyers

    The cash was handed over weeks after Mr Johnson entered No10 in July 2019

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9424745/Tories-used-party-funds-cover-Boris-Johnsons-legal-bills-Jennifer-Arcuri-affair.html

    Its not like his impropriety is a surprise
    Nor is a dog widdling on the carpet but it is still irritating to deal with the aftermath.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 40,105

    This maybe his legacy.

    Show your papers or you can't go to the Docs, the supermarkets, or the pub.

    Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

    Covid status certificates, available to those who have been vaccinated, recently tested negative or who have developed antibodies after contracting the virus, are being taken increasingly seriously at the top of government as a way of aiding the unlocking of the economy.

    Just over five weeks ago Johnson announced that Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, would lead a review of the issue. While he was not expected to report until mid-June, the prime minister is expected to provide a “high-level direction of travel” update on certificates on Monday. If he says that he sees a role for passports, the Gove review will continue to June, focusing on solving practical difficulties.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

    Drakeford said last week the four nations were in talks over this, and it also seems Drakeford is in favour
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 14,294
    MaxPB said:

    On single use vs reusable in a medical and pharmaceutical setting you have to consider the energy/carbon cost of autoclaving or steam sterilising. It isn't cheap.

    This is what I used to do for a job.

    Steam would be seriously impractical too, what about x-rays or microwaves?
    Well they already use gamma radiation to sterilise single-use products but it isn't practical to send the gear which is chockfull of dead viruses and other toxic chemicals back to a manufacturer to re-irradiate and in any case that wouldn't remove any bits of dead things, it would just kill them.

    I was primarily involved in the products used to manufacture medicines rather than PPE but I assume the same considerations apply.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 3,334

    On single use vs reusable in a medical and pharmaceutical setting you have to consider the energy/carbon cost of autoclaving or steam sterilising. It isn't cheap.

    This is what I used to do for a job.

    Hospital administration? Or equipment maintenance?

    It is interesting that the US DoD and State Dept spend tens of millions of dollars on biosafety around the world, including buying developing countries autoclaves and incinerators, but somehow forgot to factor in the cost of the power/fuel to use them. Results - unused equipment and rooms of bags filled with medical waste.

    I heard a rule of thumb that the average annual cost of operating a research lab is around 30-60% of the build cost, depending on the pathogens handled.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 65,172
    edited April 1
    Chile is over 50 doses per 100 people in terms of vaccinations. That's actually ahead of us...
    They're either using Sinovac in a suboptimal manner or Sinovac is less effective than Astra/Pfizer.

    Probably a bit of both.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 10,374
    Scott_xP said:
    40 Tory rebels needed to overturn the government majority.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 14,294
    TimT said:

    On single use vs reusable in a medical and pharmaceutical setting you have to consider the energy/carbon cost of autoclaving or steam sterilising. It isn't cheap.

    This is what I used to do for a job.

    Hospital administration? Or equipment maintenance?

    It is interesting that the US DoD and State Dept spend tens of millions of dollars on biosafety around the world, including buying developing countries autoclaves and incinerators, but somehow forgot to factor in the cost of the power/fuel to use them. Results - unused equipment and rooms of bags filled with medical waste.

    I heard a rule of thumb that the average annual cost of operating a research lab is around 30-60% of the build cost, depending on the pathogens handled.
    I designed single-use manufacturing systems for pharmaceutical companies to replace big stainless steel plants that use autoclaves and steam to sterilise.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 10,374

    Interesting if, like me, you are “in” to geopolitics.

    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1377618991787737090?s=21
    TLDR:

    1. Brexit has itself made the Commission more powerful by removing a break on federalism.

    2. Brexit exposed a legitimacy question for the EU which it is trying to fill through greater protectionism (in turn making it more a rival than a collaborator of the UK’s)

    3. As the US turns to Asia, Brexit forces Continental Europe to look ever more towards Eurasia. The Western Alliance is dissolving; London’s role is awkward and exposed.

    I don’t remember seeing any of this on the side of a bus, but I do recall Cameron being roundly mocked for noting that our EU membership was a safeguard of stability.

    Ben Judah is one of the best young writers around in the UK at the moment. His book about London was excellent.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 36,890
    Pulpstar said:

    Chile is over 50 doses per 100 people in terms of vaccinations. That's actually ahead of us...
    They're either using Sinovac in a suboptimal manner or Sinovac is less effective than Astra/Pfizer.

    Probably a bit of both.
    It's a bit misleading to say they're ahead of us. We have significantly more people with at least one dose.

    image
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 2,520
    edited April 1

    This maybe his legacy.

    Show your papers or you can't go to the Docs, the supermarkets, or the pub.

    Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

    Covid status certificates, available to those who have been vaccinated, recently tested negative or who have developed antibodies after contracting the virus, are being taken increasingly seriously at the top of government as a way of aiding the unlocking of the economy.

    Just over five weeks ago Johnson announced that Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, would lead a review of the issue. While he was not expected to report until mid-June, the prime minister is expected to provide a “high-level direction of travel” update on certificates on Monday. If he says that he sees a role for passports, the Gove review will continue to June, focusing on solving practical difficulties.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

    Sheesh, one minute you're telling me you want to be more European next youre saying you're against continental lifestyles.

    Make your mind up.
    "If he says that he sees a role for passports"

    Then Gove will be asked to work out how the hell he gets it through the Commons if Starmer comes good and holds back his support for this mad idea.
    Oh they'll regally screw it up and then BoJo will do his "oh I left my head at home" shtick and it will all get dropped.
    A government with any one of:
    a) moderately sensitive political antennae
    b) a whipping operation that had a receive mode, as well as transmit
    c) an ability to anticipate the tiny duration for which a vaccine passport would be useful
    d) an recognition that schemes like this will take ages and cost lots to debug

    would already have left this madcap scheme by the backdoor for the binmen to collect overnight.

    Unfortunately, we don't seem to have one of those.

    Unless the plan is to give Govey something pointless to keep him busy until June, by which time it will be blooming obvious what a white elephant this is.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 21,432

    This maybe his legacy.

    Show your papers or you can't go to the Docs, the supermarkets, or the pub.

    Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

    Covid status certificates, available to those who have been vaccinated, recently tested negative or who have developed antibodies after contracting the virus, are being taken increasingly seriously at the top of government as a way of aiding the unlocking of the economy.

    Just over five weeks ago Johnson announced that Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, would lead a review of the issue. While he was not expected to report until mid-June, the prime minister is expected to provide a “high-level direction of travel” update on certificates on Monday. If he says that he sees a role for passports, the Gove review will continue to June, focusing on solving practical difficulties.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

    Sheesh, one minute you're telling me you want to be more European next youre saying you're against continental lifestyles.

    Make your mind up.
    "If he says that he sees a role for passports"

    Then Gove will be asked to work out how the hell he gets it through the Commons if Starmer comes good and holds back his support for this mad idea.
    Oh they'll regally screw it up and then BoJo will do his "oh I left my head at home" shtick and it will all get dropped.
    A government with any one of:
    a) moderately sensitive political antennae
    b) a whipping operation that had a receive mode, as well as transmit
    c) an ability to anticipate the tiny duration for which a vaccine passport would be useful
    d) an recognition that schemes like this will take ages and cost lots to debug

    would already have left this madcap scheme by the backdoor for the binmen to collect overnight.

    Unfortunately, we don't seem to have one of those.
    Look on the bright side, we could have Macron at the wheel.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 14,294
    @Gardenwalker very interesting video. Thank you for that.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 2,520

    This maybe his legacy.

    Show your papers or you can't go to the Docs, the supermarkets, or the pub.

    Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

    Covid status certificates, available to those who have been vaccinated, recently tested negative or who have developed antibodies after contracting the virus, are being taken increasingly seriously at the top of government as a way of aiding the unlocking of the economy.

    Just over five weeks ago Johnson announced that Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, would lead a review of the issue. While he was not expected to report until mid-June, the prime minister is expected to provide a “high-level direction of travel” update on certificates on Monday. If he says that he sees a role for passports, the Gove review will continue to June, focusing on solving practical difficulties.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

    Drakeford said last week the four nations were in talks over this, and it also seems Drakeford is in favour
    I thought Drakeford was an authoritarian nincompoop? Sure I've read that here.
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