Tonight’s Opinium poll sees CON lead down 4% and Johnson’s approval down 6% – politicalbetting.com
Options
Tonight’s Opinium poll sees CON lead down 4% and Johnson’s approval down 6% – politicalbetting.com
Tonight's Opninium sees CON lead down to 4%CON 41% -2LAB 37% =LD 6% =GRN 5% +1
0
Comments
-
I think the heading should be "down to 4%" - but the poll is an interesting confirmation of the trend recently. The pattern is consistently that the Tories get a temporary bounce when there's good news, and it then drifts down again.1
-
Really cannot see how the tories can win Hartlepool on this type of polling - had a ton on Labour2
-
The big difference is always the Labour score. Since Christmas, Tories consistently more than 40, Labour's has been anyway from low to high 30s.
The pb golden rule used to be take the lowest Labour score, but not sure that holds since Corbyn got elected.1 -
Typical mid term result
Or
Cf Churchill 1945. Base ingratitude.0 -
If the swing is happening mainly in middle-class areas the Tories may still have an outside chance in Hartlepool. I think Labour will hold it with a reduced majority.state_go_away said:Really cannot see how the tories can win Hartlepool on this type of polling - had a ton on Labour
0 -
Its shocking that the lib dems can be on 6% after the year we have had- If you think of all the authoritarian state nannying we have had and all the lib dems can do (until very recently ) is agree with it0
-
3
-
Evening all
I suspect each of the stages of "freedom" as the Daily Mail put it in its usual hyperbolic style will see a boost for the Conservatives and the Government.
The Mail this morning told me it was "Freedom Monday" - to be honest, I can't see how anything will change very much for most people. The easing of restrictions on April 12th and May 17th will be of much greater significance.0 -
They get no coverage though. The news is dominated by Boris saying something and then Starmer giving a response.state_go_away said:Its shocking that the lib dems can be on 6% after the year we have had- If you think of all the authoritarian state nannying we have had and all the lib dems can do (until very recently ) is agree with it
2 -
~They would have got more coverage if they opposed lockdownsFrancisUrquhart said:
They get no coverage though. The news is dominated by Boris saying something and then Starmer giving a response.state_go_away said:Its shocking that the lib dems can be on 6% after the year we have had- If you think of all the authoritarian state nannying we have had and all the lib dems can do (until very recently ) is agree with it
1 -
They ought to be on at least 15%. But they haven't been very liberal, as you say.state_go_away said:
~They would have got more coverage if they opposed lockdownsFrancisUrquhart said:
They get no coverage though. The news is dominated by Boris saying something and then Starmer giving a response.state_go_away said:Its shocking that the lib dems can be on 6% after the year we have had- If you think of all the authoritarian state nannying we have had and all the lib dems can do (until very recently ) is agree with it
2 -
I'm down already as guessing a Labour majority of 2,000 on a turnout of around 30%, and I'd stick with that whether the polls were level pegging or had the Tories 10pts ahead. Local circumstances prevail.Andy_JS said:
If the swing is happening mainly in middle-class areas the Tories may still have an outside chance in Hartlepool. I think Labour will hold it with a reduced majority.state_go_away said:Really cannot see how the tories can win Hartlepool on this type of polling - had a ton on Labour
2 -
Just wait till the pubs open, Mike 0
-
Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).1 -
When does her trial start?Floater said:Yes - lets put this lot in charge....
https://twitter.com/ClaudiaWebbe/status/13758233732892794922 -
The vote in the Commons the other day was one of the strangest of all time in terms of who voted No. It was a combination of Labour left-wingers and Tory right-wingers. Diane Abbott and John Redwood. Richard Burgon and Steve Baker. Jeremy Corbyn and Andrew Rosindell. And so on.Floater said:Yes - lets put this lot in charge....
https://twitter.com/ClaudiaWebbe/status/1375823373289279492
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2021-03-25/division/7599821D-1E4C-47CD-A9CC-CB7D40185AFA/Coronavirus?outputType=Names1 -
ON topic I just made a fairly authentic Singapore chicken laksa
OMFG
They are going to destroy us. Their food is better, their toilets are better, they aren't obese, they don't die of Covid
We are doomed1 -
Labour is making all the right moves and Keir is asserting himself intelligently once again. Defence is a great avenue to go down.
Labour will lead polls again soon IMHO1 -
because the public sector has gone from employing the working class (1970s) to a load of "generalists" who all think communication and optics is all they need to do - generally middle class and usually upper middle class . The working class are in the private sector now and the public sector (or third sector) is all about spending money proving how woke you areSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).0 -
Decent chance Labour holds Hartlepool?0
-
The Prince of Whales was Fatty Arbuckle, and his career ended after the scandal surrounding the death of Virginia Rappe.YBarddCwsc said:
Who was the first Prince of Whales?ydoethur said:
Who was the last Prince of Wales to be born in Wales?Luckyguy1983 said:I have a quiz in about 20 minutes - I have a set of geography questions, but as ever, any more fun ones from you guys would be most appreciated if any spring to mind!
Answer - Henry V, victor of Agincourt.
And who did he kill ?
Trump of course famously tweeted he had met the Prince of Whales.
I think the title 'Prince of Whales' should certainly replace 'Prince of Wales'.0 -
Absolutely certain LAB hold Hartlepool.CorrectHorseBattery said:Decent chance Labour holds Hartlepool?
1 -
Looks like Charles is fully on board already!YBarddCwsc said:
The Prince of Whales was Fatty Arbuckle, and his career ended after the scandal surrounding the death of Virginia Rappe.YBarddCwsc said:
Who was the first Prince of Whales?ydoethur said:
Who was the last Prince of Wales to be born in Wales?Luckyguy1983 said:I have a quiz in about 20 minutes - I have a set of geography questions, but as ever, any more fun ones from you guys would be most appreciated if any spring to mind!
Answer - Henry V, victor of Agincourt.
And who did he kill ?
Trump of course famously tweeted he had met the Prince of Whales.
I think the title 'Prince of Whales' should certainly replace 'Prince of Wales'.
https://twitter.com/Charles_HRH/status/11391643003780915200 -
Based on? Did you see the constituency poll the other day.londonpubman said:
Absolutely certain LAB hold Hartlepool.CorrectHorseBattery said:Decent chance Labour holds Hartlepool?
0 -
Ordinary voters see LAB is stuffed with this sort of people.Floater said:Yes - lets put this lot in charge....
https://twitter.com/ClaudiaWebbe/status/1375823373289279492
Long wait to No 10 Keir!2 -
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power8 -
Yes, Labour will be 15 points aheadBluestBlue said:Just wait till the pubs open, Mike
1 -
So we have another data point - which leads to question/discussion
Are poll aggregators a good or bad thing in general?
https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/
For example.2 -
We know their views changed because in 2017 it was many of these people who got outraged at the idea that some of this unearned wealth might be used to pay for care home fees and not passed to them as inheritance. There were enough of them on here.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
Or see the response of people on over £50K at the loss of child benefit a few years earlier.
Or before that very wealthy people horrified at the very idea that they might not get an unlimited tax break when they gave money to charity.
Guilt is not the feeling they suffer from. But selfishness.8 -
I find there is also often a strange delusion of "we aren't actually very rich" mentality, because we only have the cars on finance and thus any talk of soak the rich is well that's not us obviously, we only have a household income of £100-150k+ a year.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power0 -
All still consistent with Tory 42 Labour 36, as has been the case for a few weeks.2
-
0
-
Or if the Labour Party was to do something totally outrageous. Like representing the interests of the Working Class.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power2 -
I am not sure anything has changed much to be honest
Cons +40
Labour +350 -
Doesn't Mr Smithson Iike Boris?1
-
Don't forget the LDs were there as well so you had the likes of Corbyn, Redwood, Davey, Moran, Chope and Abbott all in the same lobby.Andy_JS said:
The vote in the Commons the other day was one of the strangest of all time in terms of who voted No. It was a combination of Labour left-wingers and Tory right-wingers. Diane Abbott and John Redwood. Richard Burgon and Steve Baker. Jeremy Corbyn and Andrew Rosindell. And so on.
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2021-03-25/division/7599821D-1E4C-47CD-A9CC-CB7D40185AFA/Coronavirus?outputType=Names
A Government "of all the talents" in waiting if there ever was one.
I won't say this often but kudos to the Conservative and Labour "rebels" on this one - I don't normally agree with them but on this issue I applaud them all.2 -
Vaccine delay un bounce still to come too just as postals go out
exciting LE night could yet be on the cards for Lab.
Britain Elects
@BritainElects
·
22s
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 41% (-2)
LAB: 37% (-)
GRN: 6% (+2)
LDEM: 6% (-)
via
@OpiniumResearch
, 25 - 26 Mar
Chgs. w/ 12 Mar0 -
Which in turn is based on the high property prices that many people are dealing with.Cyclefree said:
We know their views changed because in 2017 it was many of these people who got outraged at the idea that some of this unearned wealth might be used to pay for care home fees and not passed to them as inheritance. There were enough of them on here.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
Or see the response of people on over £50K at the loss of child benefit a few years earlier.
Or before that very wealthy people horrified at the very idea that they might not get an unlimited tax break when they gave money to charity.
Guilt is not the feeling they suffer from. But selfishness.
The selfish, hidden secret is that they are hoping that Grannies house will pay off *their* mortgage.
1 -
Yes. I don't tend to take much notice of constituency polls.Andy_JS said:
Based on? Did you see the constituency poll the other day.londonpubman said:
Absolutely certain LAB hold Hartlepool.CorrectHorseBattery said:Decent chance Labour holds Hartlepool?
Voters in general won't be that interested. Con haven't won there since 1959. Enough residual Lab support to get them over the line.0 -
The Lib Dems have been down to bedrock support since about 2011, save for the period of convulsion during 2019 when we had Change UK, the Brexit Party, the fall of Theresa May and the denouement of the Parliamentary shenanigans. What modest bounce they managed actually to carry into the 2019 GE courtesy of their Remainer fundamentalism rapidly dissipated after it.state_go_away said:Its shocking that the lib dems can be on 6% after the year we have had- If you think of all the authoritarian state nannying we have had and all the lib dems can do (until very recently) is agree with it
Why we should be expecting them to be doing any better right now is beyond me. They have an anonymous leader who gets very little air time, in charge of a party with no more than a vaguely discernible philosophy, and no policy platform whatever known to anyone outside of their own ranks. Their main priority seems to be avoiding their own extinction.
This is unlikely to improve in the near future. There's only so much mileage to be had in being a continuity Europhile party for a handful of wealthy enclaves in SE England, allied to a niche Scottish unionist party for wet centrists.0 -
Should do but Candidate will be a drag IMOCorrectHorseBattery said:Decent chance Labour holds Hartlepool?
0 -
Starmer is far too dull to get a bounce.NickPalmer said:I think the heading should be "down to 4%" - but the poll is an interesting confirmation of the trend recently. The pattern is consistently that the Tories get a temporary bounce when there's good news, and it then drifts down again.
0 -
If they turn out to vote...londonpubman said:
Yes. I don't tend to take much notice of constituency polls.Andy_JS said:
Based on? Did you see the constituency poll the other day.londonpubman said:
Absolutely certain LAB hold Hartlepool.CorrectHorseBattery said:Decent chance Labour holds Hartlepool?
Voters in general won't be that interested. Con haven't won there since 1959. Enough residual Lab support to get them over the line.0 -
Only if we have vaccine passports to get in the pub! 😠stodge said:1 -
Broken, sleazy Tories on the slide
0 -
That was not a constituency poll - but MRP extrapolation from a survey of Northern seats.Andy_JS said:
Based on? Did you see the constituency poll the other day.londonpubman said:
Absolutely certain LAB hold Hartlepool.CorrectHorseBattery said:Decent chance Labour holds Hartlepool?
0 -
And why has the -2 gone to Greens and not Labour
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1375902519386341384?s=191 -
Except this isn't true.....look at the smoothed national voting intention. there is no bounce / unbounce pattern at all. Tories steadily lost vote share since the GE, Labour picked up, it then stabilised at about even for 3-4 months, and then since Christmas, Tories opened up a gap which at the moment loads steady (maybe in 1 point).NickPalmer said:I think the heading should be "down to 4%" - but the poll is an interesting confirmation of the trend recently. The pattern is consistently that the Tories get a temporary bounce when there's good news, and it then drifts down again.
https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/0 -
Your regular reminder that the typical voter's definition of 'the rich' is either:FrancisUrquhart said:
I find there is also often a strange delusion of "we aren't actually very rich" mentality, because we only have the cars on finance and thus any talk of soak the rich is well that's not us obviously, we only have a household income of £100-150k+ a year.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
(a) Richard Branson, Roman Abramovich, various oil sheikhs etc, all of whom should be made to give at least 95% of it to the NHS immediately
OR
(b) Anybody who earns at least £1 per year more than I do1 -
The definition of "rich" has been tested with polling I believe. And produced actual results.....FrancisUrquhart said:
I find there is also often a strange delusion of "we aren't actually very rich" mentality, because we only have the cars on finance and thus any talk of soak the rich is well that's not us obviously, we only have a household income of £100-150k+ a year.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
It's someone who earns 3-4 times more than the person you ask.
So in the case you mention - they will be going on about the barstewards on £500K0 -
I have a friend, about 40 years old, who constantly rants about the "evil rich Tories". Endless screeds, he sometimes sends me them. and I politely ignore them. Let's call him X.FrancisUrquhart said:
I find there is also often a strange delusion of "we aren't actually very rich" mentality, because we only have the cars on finance and thus any talk of soak the rich is well that's not us obviously, we only have a household income of £100-150k+ a year.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
I'm in a kind of friendship triangle (we used to go abroad together as a team) with him and another guy. 3rd guy. Let's call him Y
3rd guy is proper working class, very poor background, worked hard in the arts, now has a decent life, but he knows what it is like to be really poor. No central heating, worrying about the weekly shop, crap food all the time. He doesn't own, he rents, for his family, in his 40s
Friend X has a millionaire mother, is single, and has just sold his flat in Battersea for about half a million. Just sitting in the bank. Half a mill. Age 40
X genuinely seems to have no idea that, by most standards, he is obviously wealthy. Half a million in the bank and a job that still pays nicely (even if it has been threatened by Covid).
When we go out as a trio, and X rants about "rich evil Tories", I sometimes have to restrain friend Y from strangling friend X0 -
Mike's calculation of swing since 2019 is not quite correct. The Tories won the GE across GB by 11.6% so Opinium's 4% lead represents a swing from Con to Lab of 3.8% . On a UNS basis Labour would gain 38 Tory seats.0
-
Noise, churn, margin of error, etc etc. Who knows?Big_G_NorthWales said:And why has the -2 gone to Greens and not Labour
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1375902519386341384?s=19
Anyway, trends might possibly tell you something. Individual results in isolation aren't much good for anything.2 -
I am never going to be rich enough to be a Communist, I fear.Leon said:
I have a friend, about 40 years old, who constantly rants about the "evil rich Tories". Endless screeds, he sometimes sends me them. and I politely ignore them. Let's call him X.FrancisUrquhart said:
I find there is also often a strange delusion of "we aren't actually very rich" mentality, because we only have the cars on finance and thus any talk of soak the rich is well that's not us obviously, we only have a household income of £100-150k+ a year.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
I'm in a kind of friendship triangle (we used to go abroad together as a team) with him and another guy. 3rd guy. Let's call him Y
3rd guy is proper working class, very poor background, worked hard in the arts, now has a decent life, but he knows what it is like to be really poor. No central heating, worrying about the weekly shop, crap food all the time. He doesn't own, he rents, for his family, in his 40s
Friend X has a millionaire mother, is single, and has just sold his flat in Battersea for about half a million. Just sitting in the bank. Half a mill. Age 40
X genuinely seems to have no idea that, by most standards, he is obviously wealthy. Half a million in the bank and a job that still pays nicely (even if it has been threatened by Covid).
When we go out as a trio, and X rants about "rich evil Tories", I sometimes have to restrain friend Y from strangling friend X
With hard work and luck I may make it to afford hard-core Socialism.6 -
These days they care more for the Wokers than the Workers.SandyRentool said:
Or if the Labour Party was to do something totally outrageous. Like representing the interests of the Working Class.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power8 -
Churn? Corbynistas defecting to the True Believers balanced by middle class types flocking to, well, flirting with Starmer?Big_G_NorthWales said:And why has the -2 gone to Greens and not Labour
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1375902519386341384?s=191 -
That is so good. It is going to get nicked.ydoethur said:
These days they care more for the Wokers than the Workers.SandyRentool said:
Or if the Labour Party was to do something totally outrageous. Like representing the interests of the Working Class.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power0 -
Coming to a PMQs shortly...ydoethur said:
These days they care more for the Wokers than the Workers.SandyRentool said:
Or if the Labour Party was to do something totally outrageous. Like representing the interests of the Working Class.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power0 -
Well, we all know I am a Class act.YBarddCwsc said:
That is so good. It is going to get nicked.ydoethur said:
These days they care more for the Wokers than the Workers.SandyRentool said:
Or if the Labour Party was to do something totally outrageous. Like representing the interests of the Working Class.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
I thank you.2 -
Is that bugger Hyufd around trying to nick my ideas to get himself a cushy seat somewhere?FrancisUrquhart said:
Coming to a PMQs shortly...ydoethur said:
These days they care more for the Wokers than the Workers.SandyRentool said:
Or if the Labour Party was to do something totally outrageous. Like representing the interests of the Working Class.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power0 -
Back during Peak Corbyn I had a discussion with a Corbynite - who was of the opinion that everyone with a "proper job" was a F^&king Tory.YBarddCwsc said:
That is so good. It is going to get nicked.ydoethur said:
These days they care more for the Wokers than the Workers.SandyRentool said:
Or if the Labour Party was to do something totally outrageous. Like representing the interests of the Working Class.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
His theory was that the future of progressives was in the oncoming AI revolution - that the real masses were those not working, and that they would expand massively.
While he didn't say it (or I think mean it), it did give me a vision of a combination of the masses from the estates plus the Its Grim Up North London In Our Inherited Town Houses brigade.
1 -
Also, lots of upper middle class rich people tend to mix with other upper middle class rich people. It's human natureMalmesbury said:
The definition of "rich" has been tested with polling I believe. And produced actual results.....FrancisUrquhart said:
I find there is also often a strange delusion of "we aren't actually very rich" mentality, because we only have the cars on finance and thus any talk of soak the rich is well that's not us obviously, we only have a household income of £100-150k+ a year.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
It's someone who earns 3-4 times more than the person you ask.
So in the case you mention - they will be going on about the barstewards on £500K
So they often encounter people who are much richer than them, so they feel kind of average, even tho they might have a net worth of £500k-£1m and be earning, as a couple, £100-150k a year
That puts them in the top 1-2% of the country but they will feel "quite ordinary middle class" because they see others with SO much more, very frequently
I am affluent. Decidedly so, by average British standards. But when my friend bought a private jet for $57m I thought "basically, I'm skint, I'm practically Oliver Twist"
Tis only natural0 -
Are you sure it wasn’t Aaron Bastani in a face mask?Malmesbury said:
Back during Peak Corbyn I had a discussion with a Corbynite - who was of the opinion that everyone with a "proper job" was a F^&king Tory.YBarddCwsc said:
That is so good. It is going to get nicked.ydoethur said:
These days they care more for the Wokers than the Workers.SandyRentool said:
Or if the Labour Party was to do something totally outrageous. Like representing the interests of the Working Class.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
His theory was that the future of progressives was in the oncoming AI revolution - that the real masses were those not working, and that they would expand massively.
While he didn't say it (or I think mean it), it did give me a vision of a combination of the masses from the estates plus the Its Grim Up North London In Our Inherited Town Houses brigade.
Or was it just someone who had read his rather silly book?0 -
Sarah Olney, LibDem MP Richmond Park said to me in a recent email:state_go_away said:Its shocking that the lib dems can be on 6% after the year we have had- If you think of all the authoritarian state nannying we have had and all the lib dems can do (until very recently ) is agree with it
Yesterday in Parliament I voted against extending the Coronavirus Act for a further six months. Along with all of my Liberal Democrat colleagues I opposed this Act on the basis that the Government hasn't shown that they need the powers it contains anymore, and neither Parliamentary scrutiny nor civil liberties should be be relinquished lightly. We continue to support all necessary measures to contain the spread of the virus and assist individuals and businesses. However, none of these measures relies on the passage of this bill.
Disappointingly, the Bill was supported by Labour as well as the Conservatives and it passed despite our opposition.
1 -
It cries out out for a T-shirt with the "r" removed with pseudo graffiti/protest painting over...FrancisUrquhart said:
Coming to a PMQs shortly...ydoethur said:
These days they care more for the Wokers than the Workers.SandyRentool said:
Or if the Labour Party was to do something totally outrageous. Like representing the interests of the Working Class.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power2 -
I wonder how rich the average PB poster is0
-
How do you get rich by knapping flints?Leon said:
Also, lots of upper middle class rich people tend to mix with other upper middle class rich people. It's human natureMalmesbury said:
The definition of "rich" has been tested with polling I believe. And produced actual results.....FrancisUrquhart said:
I find there is also often a strange delusion of "we aren't actually very rich" mentality, because we only have the cars on finance and thus any talk of soak the rich is well that's not us obviously, we only have a household income of £100-150k+ a year.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
It's someone who earns 3-4 times more than the person you ask.
So in the case you mention - they will be going on about the barstewards on £500K
So they often encounter people who are much richer than them, so they feel kind of average, even tho they might have a net worth of £500k-£1m and be earning, as a couple, £100-150k a year
That puts them in the top 1-2% of the country but they will feel "quite ordinary middle class" because they see others with SO much more, very frequently
I am affluent. Decidedly so, by average British standards. But when my friend bought a private jet for $57m I thought "basically, I'm skint, I'm practically Oliver Twist"
Tis only natural
Or did you inherit some money from, say, a past life? Ummm, I meant ancestor.0 -
The "AI will makes us all into poor, jobless serfs" thing is common on the techno-hard-left, I believe. Where is it seen as being the "contradiction of Capitalism" that will bring the whole thing down.ydoethur said:
Are you sure it wasn’t Aaron Bastani in a face mask?Malmesbury said:
Back during Peak Corbyn I had a discussion with a Corbynite - who was of the opinion that everyone with a "proper job" was a F^&king Tory.YBarddCwsc said:
That is so good. It is going to get nicked.ydoethur said:
These days they care more for the Wokers than the Workers.SandyRentool said:
Or if the Labour Party was to do something totally outrageous. Like representing the interests of the Working Class.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
His theory was that the future of progressives was in the oncoming AI revolution - that the real masses were those not working, and that they would expand massively.
While he didn't say it (or I think mean it), it did give me a vision of a combination of the masses from the estates plus the Its Grim Up North London In Our Inherited Town Houses brigade.
Or was it just someone who had read his rather silly book?0 -
No one ever lost money guaranteeing orgasmsydoethur said:
How do you get rich by knapping flints?Leon said:
Also, lots of upper middle class rich people tend to mix with other upper middle class rich people. It's human natureMalmesbury said:
The definition of "rich" has been tested with polling I believe. And produced actual results.....FrancisUrquhart said:
I find there is also often a strange delusion of "we aren't actually very rich" mentality, because we only have the cars on finance and thus any talk of soak the rich is well that's not us obviously, we only have a household income of £100-150k+ a year.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
It's someone who earns 3-4 times more than the person you ask.
So in the case you mention - they will be going on about the barstewards on £500K
So they often encounter people who are much richer than them, so they feel kind of average, even tho they might have a net worth of £500k-£1m and be earning, as a couple, £100-150k a year
That puts them in the top 1-2% of the country but they will feel "quite ordinary middle class" because they see others with SO much more, very frequently
I am affluent. Decidedly so, by average British standards. But when my friend bought a private jet for $57m I thought "basically, I'm skint, I'm practically Oliver Twist"
Tis only natural
Or did you inherit some money from, say, a past life? Ummm, I meant ancestor.0 -
One of the advantages of being so many people, is the multiple incomes...ydoethur said:
How do you get rich by knapping flints?Leon said:
Also, lots of upper middle class rich people tend to mix with other upper middle class rich people. It's human natureMalmesbury said:
The definition of "rich" has been tested with polling I believe. And produced actual results.....FrancisUrquhart said:
I find there is also often a strange delusion of "we aren't actually very rich" mentality, because we only have the cars on finance and thus any talk of soak the rich is well that's not us obviously, we only have a household income of £100-150k+ a year.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
It's someone who earns 3-4 times more than the person you ask.
So in the case you mention - they will be going on about the barstewards on £500K
So they often encounter people who are much richer than them, so they feel kind of average, even tho they might have a net worth of £500k-£1m and be earning, as a couple, £100-150k a year
That puts them in the top 1-2% of the country but they will feel "quite ordinary middle class" because they see others with SO much more, very frequently
I am affluent. Decidedly so, by average British standards. But when my friend bought a private jet for $57m I thought "basically, I'm skint, I'm practically Oliver Twist"
Tis only natural
Or did you inherit some money from, say, a past life? Ummm, I meant ancestor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplicity_(film)1 -
Bit crass to say so, but it is true.Floater said:Yes - lets put this lot in charge....
https://twitter.com/ClaudiaWebbe/status/1375823373289279492
Ultimately all order in society is by threat of violence, and the police are the sharp end of that.
It is why policing needs to be by consent, and in turn for the laws to have widespread support. When communities feel that the laws are unfair, the police are seen as an oppressive occupying force. There are plenty of examples in British history.1 -
Did Mike mention not all good news for SKS
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1375905606045999111/photo/11 -
You need to be taught a lesson in humility!ydoethur said:
Well, we all know I am a Class act.YBarddCwsc said:
That is so good. It is going to get nicked.ydoethur said:
These days they care more for the Wokers than the Workers.SandyRentool said:
Or if the Labour Party was to do something totally outrageous. Like representing the interests of the Working Class.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
I thank you.0 -
Turkeys. Xmas.
"... Another returning at Malaga airport today was Shaun Cromber who despite voting for Britain to leave the EU, didn’t believe it would end his Spanish lifestyle, he said: ” Yes I voted out, but I didn’t realise it would come to this, my application has been rejected and we are on our way home – the wife is in tears, she’s distraught if I’m honest and I’m not too happy at the prospect of returning back to the UK. ..."
https://global247news.com/2021/03/26/tears-flow-for-brits-as-they-head-home-to-avoid-being-deported-as-illegals-in-spain/amp/1 -
Oh goody, it's that Twitter account again. They blocked me when I mentioned subsamples being inaccuratebigjohnowls said:Did Mike mention not all good news for SKS
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1375905606045999111/photo/10 -
Being a working class kid I was told that it is gauche to talk about money.CorrectHorseBattery said:I wonder how rich the average PB poster is
0 -
They also decided they would re-weight polls during GE19, they are not to be trusted0
-
A lot richer if you count all Sean Ts profiles in the averageCorrectHorseBattery said:I wonder how rich the average PB poster is
3 -
A bunch of tax dodgers and crooks having a hard time?Beibheirli_C said:Turkeys. Xmas.
"... Another returning at Malaga airport today was Shaun Cromber who despite voting for Britain to leave the EU, didn’t believe it would end his Spanish lifestyle, he said: ” Yes I voted out, but I didn’t realise it would come to this, my application has been rejected and we are on our way home – the wife is in tears, she’s distraught if I’m honest and I’m not too happy at the prospect of returning back to the UK. ..."
https://global247news.com/2021/03/26/tears-flow-for-brits-as-they-head-home-to-avoid-being-deported-as-illegals-in-spain/amp/
"it was so easy before, get your funds in from the UK, do a bit of cash in hand around the likes of Benidorm and bob was your uncle, but that’s all changed now – hey, don’t be fooled thousands of Brits in some guise or other have been doing the same thing, especially in the entertainment industry!"
I may have lost my nano-violin with which to lament their troubles1 -
Latest EMA gives the Tories a 6% lead and an overall majority of 30.
0 -
Skewed somewhat by a few oddballs I imagine! I suspect the median PB poster is still considerably wealthier than the median UK earner even so.CorrectHorseBattery said:I wonder how rich the average PB poster is
0 -
What surprises me is the number of PBers with actual £200k supercarsPhil said:
Skewed somewhat by a few oddballs I imagine! I suspect the median PB poster is still considerably wealthier than the median UK earner even so.CorrectHorseBattery said:I wonder how rich the average PB poster is
0 -
Discounting employer pension contributions (add a further £9000) my income this financial year will be somewhere around £44,000.CorrectHorseBattery said:I wonder how rich the average PB poster is
Which apparently puts me in the top 7% of earners in the country.
It’s probably actually higher than that in terms of disposable income, as I live alone and in a very cheap area.
I must admit a bit like Leon’s friend, I find it hard to get my head around that. I don’t feel like one of the wealthy elite - certainly I don’t think I live like them - but it does occur to me that I have more money than I need, a decent house and access to pretty much anything I want, and I seldom have to back off from a project on financial grounds. I think the only thing I’ve had to rethink is buying an electric car, and that wasn’t solely due to money.
And however you look at it, that makes me pretty fortunate.4 -
Due to having fessed up to suffering from excessive boredom during Lockdown, PB's resident flint-knapper @Leon was commissioned by CCHQ to knap the perfect sculpture of Boris Johnson! Finally able to take a break from knapping strangely shaped sex-toys, he accepted the work in a heatbeat, and got to sculpting the same day. Arduous work, but he felt that, over the course of several weeks of almost continuous knapping, that he got it almost completely spot on with just a little bit more required.Leon said:
No one ever lost money guaranteeing orgasmsydoethur said:
How do you get rich by knapping flints?Leon said:
Also, lots of upper middle class rich people tend to mix with other upper middle class rich people. It's human natureMalmesbury said:
The definition of "rich" has been tested with polling I believe. And produced actual results.....FrancisUrquhart said:
I find there is also often a strange delusion of "we aren't actually very rich" mentality, because we only have the cars on finance and thus any talk of soak the rich is well that's not us obviously, we only have a household income of £100-150k+ a year.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
It's someone who earns 3-4 times more than the person you ask.
So in the case you mention - they will be going on about the barstewards on £500K
So they often encounter people who are much richer than them, so they feel kind of average, even tho they might have a net worth of £500k-£1m and be earning, as a couple, £100-150k a year
That puts them in the top 1-2% of the country but they will feel "quite ordinary middle class" because they see others with SO much more, very frequently
I am affluent. Decidedly so, by average British standards. But when my friend bought a private jet for $57m I thought "basically, I'm skint, I'm practically Oliver Twist"
Tis only natural
Or did you inherit some money from, say, a past life? Ummm, I meant ancestor.
However, @Leon had found that he had knapped so meticulously that his hands were thoroughly knackered and sore. He wondered about taking some time off in order to finish off his masterpiece at a later date. Boris's office phoned him back reasonably promptly, but to @Leon's horror, he was told in no uncertain terms that he would lose his fee if he stopped work!
"Why?" asked @Leon on the phone incredulously.
"Simple!" Boris's underling replied. "You're not entitled to any..." He paused for effect. "...Statue-Tory Sick Pay!"
I thank you! 1 -
"Which, if any, of the following people do you think would be the best prime minister?"
Boris Johnson: 33% (-4)
Keir Starmer: 27% (+2)
Via
@OpiniumResearch
, 25-26 March (+/- since 11-12 March)0 -
Sunil, there is such a thing as repeating a joke too often.4
-
By the same token, if you're about average in terms of wealth/income and choose to live somewhere like rural Wales, you're going to feel pretty well-off compared to most people in that area.Leon said:
Also, lots of upper middle class rich people tend to mix with other upper middle class rich people. It's human natureMalmesbury said:
The definition of "rich" has been tested with polling I believe. And produced actual results.....FrancisUrquhart said:
I find there is also often a strange delusion of "we aren't actually very rich" mentality, because we only have the cars on finance and thus any talk of soak the rich is well that's not us obviously, we only have a household income of £100-150k+ a year.Leon said:
Guilt, and property values, and they are relatedSean_F said:Most governments would settle for a 4% lead, a year and a half after the last election.
FPT, Bristol West is a great example of the shifts that have taken place among urban upper middle class voters. Other seats like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE and NW, Manchester Withington, Exeter show the same shift. I'd be interested for views as to why upper middle class voters in big cities have become very left wing (even as voters elsewhere have shifted right).
If you own a nice house in a nice part of a big UK city, you have enjoyed a huge capital boost from rising house prices over the last decades (and you may have benefited from your parents' houses doing the same, which you have inherited)
This is unearned wealth. You did nothing to deserve this lottery win. You were just lucky. Unearned luck creates guilt, especially when you see the younger generation struggling to buy, with worse jobs and prospects
This is why self-made people are often happily and openly right wing, they didn't luck out (in their eyes) they EARNED the fortune, so Labour and the taxman can take a hike
Also, we have not had a majorly confiscatory leftwing UK government for a long while. One that might lift top tax rates to 60-70%, impose a wealth tax, and so on. So the upper middle feels invulnerable and able to virtuously vote left. The Commies will never arrive
Views would rapidly change in the urbanite metropolitans if a Corbynite party ever came to power
It's someone who earns 3-4 times more than the person you ask.
So in the case you mention - they will be going on about the barstewards on £500K
So they often encounter people who are much richer than them, so they feel kind of average, even tho they might have a net worth of £500k-£1m and be earning, as a couple, £100-150k a year
That puts them in the top 1-2% of the country but they will feel "quite ordinary middle class" because they see others with SO much more, very frequently
I am affluent. Decidedly so, by average British standards. But when my friend bought a private jet for $57m I thought "basically, I'm skint, I'm practically Oliver Twist"
Tis only natural0 -
I was thinking the other day, if I am able to ever afford a house, I won't need to really earn any more money to be pretty much set for life. I've saved money over a longish period, I have a good, steady, job. My money is just lost on rent payments at the moment.ydoethur said:
Discounting employer pension contributions (add a further £9000) my income this financial year will be somewhere around £44,000.CorrectHorseBattery said:I wonder how rich the average PB poster is
Which apparently puts me in the top 7% of earners in the country.
It’s probably actually higher than that in terms of disposable income, as I live alone and in a very cheap area.
I must admit a bit like Leon’s friend, I find it hard to get my head around that. I don’t feel like one of the wealthy elite - certainly I don’t think I live like them - but it does occur to me that I have more money than I need, a decent house and access to pretty much anything I want, and I seldom have to back off from a project on financial grounds. I think the only thing I’ve had to rethink is buying an electric car, and that wasn’t solely due to money.
And however you look at it, that makes me pretty fortunate.
Would I really live any differently, earning double? I highly doubt it.0 -
Probably simpler to list the PBers with incomes below the median. A pretty short list I expect, probably mostly pensioners.Phil said:
Skewed somewhat by a few oddballs I imagine! I suspect the median PB poster is still considerably wealthier than the median UK earner even so.CorrectHorseBattery said:I wonder how rich the average PB poster is
0 -
Um, I was "triggered" by the mention of "flint-knapping"ydoethur said:Sunil, there is such a thing as repeating a joke too often.
0 -
Has anyone posted this ?
(read the whole, lengthy thread to get the full picture)
https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1375820410797887491
https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1375838791282405383
https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1375839330288209924
https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1375840242155065344
1 -
The number of people who think of themselves as rich is quite small.ydoethur said:
Discounting employer pension contributions (add a further £9000) my income this financial year will be somewhere around £44,000.CorrectHorseBattery said:I wonder how rich the average PB poster is
Which apparently puts me in the top 7% of earners in the country.
It’s probably actually higher than that in terms of disposable income, as I live alone and in a very cheap area.
I must admit a bit like Leon’s friend, I find it hard to get my head around that. I don’t feel like one of the wealthy elite - certainly I don’t think I live like them - but it does occur to me that I have more money than I need, a decent house and access to pretty much anything I want, and I seldom have to back off from a project on financial grounds. I think the only thing I’ve had to rethink is buying an electric car, and that wasn’t solely due to money.
And however you look at it, that makes me pretty fortunate.
I recall sitting in a community workshop, having a beer after setting up a new lathe. About half of the people there were young city types, plus students and some older types...
A couple of the younger ones were going on about "The Man".
They were a bit shocked when a friend of mine pointed out - "You are The Man".
Working in IT/Finance, good money, in the top 10% of earners, On Their Way.
They had no idea......0 -
There are a couple of things, I think. Firstly, if you work with people who mostly earn more than you, that can make you feel poorer even though relative to the general population you may be fairly well off. This is especially true in London.ydoethur said:
Discounting employer pension contributions (add a further £9000) my income this financial year will be somewhere around £44,000.CorrectHorseBattery said:I wonder how rich the average PB poster is
Which apparently puts me in the top 7% of earners in the country.
It’s probably actually higher than that in terms of disposable income, as I live alone and in a very cheap area.
I must admit a bit like Leon’s friend, I find it hard to get my head around that. I don’t feel like one of the wealthy elite - certainly I don’t think I live like them - but it does occur to me that I have more money than I need, a decent house and access to pretty much anything I want, and I seldom have to back off from a project on financial grounds. I think the only thing I’ve had to rethink is buying an electric car, and that wasn’t solely due to money.
And however you look at it, that makes me pretty fortunate.
Secondly, it's a lot easier to spot the wealth (possessions etc.) of others rather than the poverty of others.0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/27/boris-johnson-branded-irresponsible-over-back-to-the-office-call?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Boris Johnson being a twat, yet again0 -
Yes, you probably would. Unless it doubled overnight. You would simply absorb the extra and spend it on a higher living standard. Slowly and gently move upwards....CorrectHorseBattery said:
I was thinking the other day, if I am able to ever afford a house, I won't need to really earn any more money to be pretty much set for life. I've saved money over a longish period, I have a good, steady, job. My money is just lost on rent payments at the moment.ydoethur said:
Discounting employer pension contributions (add a further £9000) my income this financial year will be somewhere around £44,000.CorrectHorseBattery said:I wonder how rich the average PB poster is
Which apparently puts me in the top 7% of earners in the country.
It’s probably actually higher than that in terms of disposable income, as I live alone and in a very cheap area.
I must admit a bit like Leon’s friend, I find it hard to get my head around that. I don’t feel like one of the wealthy elite - certainly I don’t think I live like them - but it does occur to me that I have more money than I need, a decent house and access to pretty much anything I want, and I seldom have to back off from a project on financial grounds. I think the only thing I’ve had to rethink is buying an electric car, and that wasn’t solely due to money.
And however you look at it, that makes me pretty fortunate.
Would I really live any differently, earning double? I highly doubt it.
It is rare to the point of non-existence to find someone who earns £100K and lives as if he/she was on 50k and puts the rest in the bank/gives it to charity.0 -
Barnesian said:
Latest EMA gives the Tories a 6% lead and an overall majority of 30.
That table is showing a Tory lead of 5.8% - a swing to Labour of 2.9% since December 2019. On the basis of UNS , it implies 28 Labour gains. The LD figure - 6.9% - implies a swing to Con from LD of circa 1.6%. On a UNS basis , no LD seats would fall - Tim Farron would just squeak home in Westmoreland. Tory majority would be circa 20 - depending on performance in seats held in Scotland.Barnesian said:Latest EMA gives the Tories a 6% lead and an overall majority of 30.
0 -
It's been news for a few hours. Sturgeon trying to undermine Salmond will be her undoing.0
-
I get quite angry at people who don't realise this basic truth. Most people don't earn large amounts, by definition. Median household income in the UK is around £28-30kydoethur said:
Discounting employer pension contributions (add a further £9000) my income this financial year will be somewhere around £44,000.CorrectHorseBattery said:I wonder how rich the average PB poster is
Which apparently puts me in the top 7% of earners in the country.
It’s probably actually higher than that in terms of disposable income, as I live alone and in a very cheap area.
I must admit a bit like Leon’s friend, I find it hard to get my head around that. I don’t feel like one of the wealthy elite - certainly I don’t think I live like them - but it does occur to me that I have more money than I need, a decent house and access to pretty much anything I want, and I seldom have to back off from a project on financial grounds. I think the only thing I’ve had to rethink is buying an electric car, and that wasn’t solely due to money.
And however you look at it, that makes me pretty fortunate.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyear2020#:~:text=Median income between the financial,on average 0.8% per year.
That is enough for a decent life, of course, and we are a safe, wealthy country. But it means you don't have to go much higher than this to be obviously wealthy to MOST people, even if you don't feel it. Such as you
Someone with a personal net income of £50k a year is RICH. They will furiously deny it, they certainly won't believe it. But they are. To most of the country0 -
Germany woefully behind with COVID vaccinations, and shortages only small part of an "unbelievable" problem...
Dr. Joachim Wunderlich, a cardiologist who has helped staff a local vaccination center in Berlin, told CBS News that the bureaucratic process for people to get vaccinated in Germany was "unbelievable," and the amount of paperwork involved, "insane."
"You can't expect an over-80-year-old to fill out 10 pages and numerous consent forms and ask them to call a hotline to make an appointment," he said. "And then they risk being turned away because they forgot some forms at home."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/germany-covid-vaccine-slow-rollout-shortages-bureaucracy-european-union/
I guess its even harder for Fritz the 3 year old who has been invited because he has an old dude name and he gets his crayon out....
I really don't think the government / NHS have been given enough credit for just how slick the operation is. Its not just the amount of supply, it is how straight forward they have made it. If only every interaction with the state, your ISP, your mobile provider, the electricity company was this straight forward.3
This discussion has been closed.