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How the Sunday Times made this grumpy old man (me) even grumpier – politicalbetting.com

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  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    What would be the point of UDI if circa half of Scotland proceeds to ignore it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    I'll put you down as a 'maybe,' Malc.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,247
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    Yes, that’s a fair appraisal. Thankyou. Despite her (increasingly obvious) flaws I’ve some respect for Sturgeon as a wily, effective politician. Quite a survivor. But her awful gnome of a husband…
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,394

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    I think he's one of those who says the SNP already have a mandate for Indyref2 but Sturgeon likes the trappings of too much which makes her timid.

    Personally my view is that Sturgeon realises if the SNP lose Indyref2 then that really is it for a genuine registration and she wants the polls to be something like 60% for Yes consistently.

    There's plenty of who think current polling is all driven by the pandemic.

    Plus the SNP line that Scotland was dragged out of the EU against her will and we will rejoin might not be that effective when the EU block our vaccines.
    Tend to agree with that. The mantra used to be that they needed consistent 60% pro-Indy polling to justify a second ref which would confirm the "settled will of the Scottish people". Looked like it might be happening a few months ago but the tide has receded. Sturgeon is pretty smart and recognises the dangers, while Salmond looks like the proverbial "old man in a hurry".
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    From the report:
    The failure to disclose the meeting of 29 March with Mr Aberdein to the
    Scottish Parliament on 8 January 2019, although the First Minister’s statement
    was technically a correct statement of the occasions on which the she had met
    Mr Salmond nonetheless resulted in an incomplete narrative of events. For the
    reasons stated above I accept that this omission was the result of a genuine
    failure of recollection and was not deliberate. That failure did not therefore in
    my opinion amount to a breach of the Ministerial Code.

    The fact that she did not want to admit that she knew in advance that the meeting on 2nd April was a government meeting and not a party meeting is mentioned but then rather overlooked.

    Mmm. Has there ever been a public figure (or any of us on PB) who has changed their mind as the result of an enquiry/independent review? My experience is that people who agree with the findings say "Well, that settles it" and those who disagree shout "whitewash"

    (I haven't had an opinion on this one so don't have a mind to change.)
    Yes, I believed Tony Blair regarding the events of the death of the David Kelly, then I read the Hutton report and I noticed he gave everyone in government the benefit of the doubt and thought everyone at the BBC had behaved very badly.

    I thought with this level of whitewash I was wrong to believe Blair.
    Equally, Blair survived for three and a half more years after Hutton. If Sturgeon lasts that long, she will be pretty happy.
    The point perhaps is that Blair survived for 3 1/2 more years, but the damage Labour sustained was immense, and led inexorably to Corbyn.

    Sturgeon will be very happy to survive for another 3 1/2 years, but whether it is really in the SNP's best interests is rather more arguable.

    I started out believing that Nicola was on the side of the angels, and MalcolmG was a ranting madman.

    I have changed my mind somewhat -- there is enough in the public domain that is very concerning.
    I'm inclined to agree. I never thought somebody of Sturgeon's ability would deliberately lie, but it's becoming very obvious that she hasn't told all the truth. This isn't necessarily the same thing, but it's something of a distinction without a difference in this case.

    The police are entitled to hold silence against a suspect, on the basis that they are hiding something. Public opinion is less forgiving.

    I think this has probably done terminal damage to her reputation. Whether it's going to damage her electoral prospects is another question.
    I'm not so sure about terminal damage. Think she'll just bulldoze on TBH. Supporters will be re-energised.

    With respect to Hamilton you have to remember the parameters of the Inquiry were drawn up very tightly by Swinney. No surprise here, really.
    Yes, but her reputation is destroyed. From hereon in, she's going to be just another useless politician out for herself.

    Like I say, I'm not sure it will harm her electoral prospects given the lack of alternatives, but she's going to struggle to claim any moral high ground whatsoever.
    It will do her no harm at all. The few waverers who were considering defecting to the sock puppets or sitting on their hands in the forthcoming election can now safely vote SNP.

    The electorate will draw conclusions from this affair in line with their existing inclinations.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,046
    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    Yes, that’s a fair appraisal. Thankyou. Despite her (increasingly obvious) flaws I’ve some respect for Sturgeon as a wily, effective politician. Quite a survivor. But her awful gnome of a husband…
    Extremely talented and resourceful lady. Sadly there's an SNP logo in the place where most people have a conscience.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,247
    justin124 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    What would be the point of UDI if circa half of Scotland proceeds to ignore it?
    UDI would be mad, as Sturgeon knows, but a chunky hardcore of Nats want it
  • I've been out for a spin on the bike, so missed the Big News. A few rather obvious conclusions:
    1. All such enquiries are scrupulous and impartial if you like the findings and an obvious whitewash if you don't
    2. Sturgeon and the SNP will use this to wipe away all of the insinuations being made
    3. The Tories look like opportunist prannocks pursuing a "guilty until proven innocent" strategy, complete with a "she broke the ministerial code" leak which was plain wrong
    4. Watch for the SNP bounce. Being cleared in the middle of an election campaign can't do anything other than good.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    You need to vote Tory, both in the constituency and list, only that way can you get rid of Sturgeon.

    Tell all your friends that as well.
    Both myself and my wife will not vote in constituency and will go for any other independence party except Green nutters in the list vote.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,046

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    From the report:
    The failure to disclose the meeting of 29 March with Mr Aberdein to the
    Scottish Parliament on 8 January 2019, although the First Minister’s statement
    was technically a correct statement of the occasions on which the she had met
    Mr Salmond nonetheless resulted in an incomplete narrative of events. For the
    reasons stated above I accept that this omission was the result of a genuine
    failure of recollection and was not deliberate. That failure did not therefore in
    my opinion amount to a breach of the Ministerial Code.

    The fact that she did not want to admit that she knew in advance that the meeting on 2nd April was a government meeting and not a party meeting is mentioned but then rather overlooked.

    Mmm. Has there ever been a public figure (or any of us on PB) who has changed their mind as the result of an enquiry/independent review? My experience is that people who agree with the findings say "Well, that settles it" and those who disagree shout "whitewash"

    (I haven't had an opinion on this one so don't have a mind to change.)
    Yes, I believed Tony Blair regarding the events of the death of the David Kelly, then I read the Hutton report and I noticed he gave everyone in government the benefit of the doubt and thought everyone at the BBC had behaved very badly.

    I thought with this level of whitewash I was wrong to believe Blair.
    Equally, Blair survived for three and a half more years after Hutton. If Sturgeon lasts that long, she will be pretty happy.
    The point perhaps is that Blair survived for 3 1/2 more years, but the damage Labour sustained was immense, and led inexorably to Corbyn.

    Sturgeon will be very happy to survive for another 3 1/2 years, but whether it is really in the SNP's best interests is rather more arguable.

    I started out believing that Nicola was on the side of the angels, and MalcolmG was a ranting madman.

    I have changed my mind somewhat -- there is enough in the public domain that is very concerning.
    I'm inclined to agree. I never thought somebody of Sturgeon's ability would deliberately lie, but it's becoming very obvious that she hasn't told all the truth. This isn't necessarily the same thing, but it's something of a distinction without a difference in this case.

    The police are entitled to hold silence against a suspect, on the basis that they are hiding something. Public opinion is less forgiving.

    I think this has probably done terminal damage to her reputation. Whether it's going to damage her electoral prospects is another question.
    I'm not so sure about terminal damage. Think she'll just bulldoze on TBH. Supporters will be re-energised.

    With respect to Hamilton you have to remember the parameters of the Inquiry were drawn up very tightly by Swinney. No surprise here, really.
    Yes, but her reputation is destroyed. From hereon in, she's going to be just another useless politician out for herself.

    Like I say, I'm not sure it will harm her electoral prospects given the lack of alternatives, but she's going to struggle to claim any moral high ground whatsoever.
    It will do her no harm at all. The few waverers who were considering defecting to the sock puppets or sitting on their hands in the forthcoming election can now safely vote SNP.

    The electorate will draw conclusions from this affair in line with their existing inclinations.
    Oh, so you admit there are waverers now - that's progress.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    Yes, that’s a fair appraisal. Thankyou. Despite her (increasingly obvious) flaws I’ve some respect for Sturgeon as a wily, effective politician. Quite a survivor. But her awful gnome of a husband…
    A pair of ne'er do wells
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    Yes, that’s a fair appraisal. Thankyou. Despite her (increasingly obvious) flaws I’ve some respect for Sturgeon as a wily, effective politician. Quite a survivor. But her awful gnome of a husband…
    Extremely talented and resourceful lady. Sadly there's an SNP logo in the place where most people have a conscience.
    Not surprising when you look at her previous career
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    From the report:
    The failure to disclose the meeting of 29 March with Mr Aberdein to the
    Scottish Parliament on 8 January 2019, although the First Minister’s statement
    was technically a correct statement of the occasions on which the she had met
    Mr Salmond nonetheless resulted in an incomplete narrative of events. For the
    reasons stated above I accept that this omission was the result of a genuine
    failure of recollection and was not deliberate. That failure did not therefore in
    my opinion amount to a breach of the Ministerial Code.

    The fact that she did not want to admit that she knew in advance that the meeting on 2nd April was a government meeting and not a party meeting is mentioned but then rather overlooked.

    Mmm. Has there ever been a public figure (or any of us on PB) who has changed their mind as the result of an enquiry/independent review? My experience is that people who agree with the findings say "Well, that settles it" and those who disagree shout "whitewash"

    (I haven't had an opinion on this one so don't have a mind to change.)
    Yes, I believed Tony Blair regarding the events of the death of the David Kelly, then I read the Hutton report and I noticed he gave everyone in government the benefit of the doubt and thought everyone at the BBC had behaved very badly.

    I thought with this level of whitewash I was wrong to believe Blair.
    Equally, Blair survived for three and a half more years after Hutton. If Sturgeon lasts that long, she will be pretty happy.
    Am I missing something, but why is declaring war on a country and forgetting about a meeting you weren't at equivalent?
    I don't know if they are, but that "forgetting about a meeting" is right up there with Hillary defenders claiming she got in some bother "over some emails".
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,247

    I've been out for a spin on the bike, so missed the Big News. A few rather obvious conclusions:
    1. All such enquiries are scrupulous and impartial if you like the findings and an obvious whitewash if you don't
    2. Sturgeon and the SNP will use this to wipe away all of the insinuations being made
    3. The Tories look like opportunist prannocks pursuing a "guilty until proven innocent" strategy, complete with a "she broke the ministerial code" leak which was plain wrong
    4. Watch for the SNP bounce. Being cleared in the middle of an election campaign can't do anything other than good.

    Perhaps.

    Unless, of course, Salmond has the energy and ammo to return fire.

    He’s a formidable enemy.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960
    On topic (ok not really), Humble Bundle are running a "Better Together" sale.

    I think it's on co-op multiplayer games, but it did cause me to blink a few times before I realised.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Leon said:

    I've been out for a spin on the bike, so missed the Big News. A few rather obvious conclusions:
    1. All such enquiries are scrupulous and impartial if you like the findings and an obvious whitewash if you don't
    2. Sturgeon and the SNP will use this to wipe away all of the insinuations being made
    3. The Tories look like opportunist prannocks pursuing a "guilty until proven innocent" strategy, complete with a "she broke the ministerial code" leak which was plain wrong
    4. Watch for the SNP bounce. Being cleared in the middle of an election campaign can't do anything other than good.

    Perhaps.

    Unless, of course, Salmond has the energy and ammo to return fire.

    He’s a formidable enemy.
    Be interesting to see if he has anything new to say when he makes his statement on Wednesday. He must have expected a whitewash and cover ups by crown / government / SNP. Would be nice if he had a coup de grace.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,749
    From the letter accompanying the Hamilton report:

    “ I am deeply frustrated that applicable court orders will have the effect of preventing the full publication of a report which fulfils my remit and which I believe it would be in the public interest to publish.
    A key part of the report necessarily refers to certain events prior to 29 March 2018, which are highly significant for understanding who was aware of complaints made against Mr Salmond and what they did with that information. These discussions set in train a series of events which ultimately led to the meeting between the First Minister and the Former Chief of Staff on 29 March and the subsequent contacts between the First Minister and Mr Salmond. It is also essential to a full and true understanding of what happened to be able to discuss fully why, how and by whom these meetings were arranged.
    Nevertheless, I understand that as the law now stands there appears to be no alternative approach which would allow my unredacted report to be published.”
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,247
    https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1374059492158095363?s=21


    Thanks Dave. Nice to know the EU is actively discussing a plan to ‘target the UK’, even if he thinks that’s a fairly unlikely outcome
  • Leon said:

    I've been out for a spin on the bike, so missed the Big News. A few rather obvious conclusions:
    1. All such enquiries are scrupulous and impartial if you like the findings and an obvious whitewash if you don't
    2. Sturgeon and the SNP will use this to wipe away all of the insinuations being made
    3. The Tories look like opportunist prannocks pursuing a "guilty until proven innocent" strategy, complete with a "she broke the ministerial code" leak which was plain wrong
    4. Watch for the SNP bounce. Being cleared in the middle of an election campaign can't do anything other than good.

    Perhaps.

    Unless, of course, Salmond has the energy and ammo to return fire.

    He’s a formidable enemy.
    Indeed. Having spent decades calling him an egotist and a fantasist, Tories now think he is Jim Carrey off Liar Liar.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,247
    Translated: ‘it’s a matter of principle that thousands of UK citizens should die so we can prove a point’

    Were these people ever, really, our friends and allies? How can we trust them again??
  • As someone who is awaiting his second Pfizer dose next month the EU can stick their principles up their arse.
  • malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    You need to vote Tory, both in the constituency and list, only that way can you get rid of Sturgeon.

    Tell all your friends that as well.
    Doesn't that depend where they live? And what is the message? "The SNP are incompetent are corrupt. Vote Tory for competent corruption"? As well as "If you are Scottish we don;t care what you think".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    I've been out for a spin on the bike, so missed the Big News. A few rather obvious conclusions:
    1. All such enquiries are scrupulous and impartial if you like the findings and an obvious whitewash if you don't
    2. Sturgeon and the SNP will use this to wipe away all of the insinuations being made
    3. The Tories look like opportunist prannocks pursuing a "guilty until proven innocent" strategy, complete with a "she broke the ministerial code" leak which was plain wrong
    4. Watch for the SNP bounce. Being cleared in the middle of an election campaign can't do anything other than good.

    There will be no SNP bounce, the cover up by an SNP appointee will be far more damaging.

    It will not change anyone's mind, despite your Nat appeasing
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    HYUFD said:

    'His report said Ms Sturgeon had given an "incomplete narrative of events" to MSPs.

    But he said this was a "genuine failure of recollection" and not deliberate.

    Mr Hamilton said he was therefore of the opinion that Ms Sturgeon had not breached any of the provisions of the code.'

    So Sturgeon did not give a full account to MSPs but can be absolved because of a poor memory

    That doesn't follow. In fact it's the opposite. Anyone who can give a 100% complete narrative of complex events that happened a while ago is almost certainly lying. A memory lapse in places adds veracity. Any copper or lawyer or psychiatrist will confirm this.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,247
    Omnium said:
    Someone in the EU should get him taken offline. He is doing serious damage to the EU’s image.
  • Disgusting and shameful. I did warn all you Boris fanboys that he would do profoundly unconservative things.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1374050334511923202

    The smallest army we've had since the 1700s and the RAF really do become the few.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    edited March 2021
    Whisky, cheese and chocolate producers have suffered the biggest post-Brexit export losses in the food and drink sector, new figures from HMRC have shown.

    Analysis of the figures by the Food and Drink Federation (FDF) shows cheese exports in January plummeted from £45m to £7m year on year, while whisky exports nosedived from £105m to £40m. Chocolate exports went from £41.4m to just £13m, a decline of 68%.

    Exports of some other goods such as salmon and beef almost stopped altogether with declines of 98% and 92% respectively but by value they were the 7th and 4th biggest losers of the top 10 exports to the EU.

    Overall fish, which has been subject to a complete ban on certain live shellfish, dropped 79%.

    The figures come hot on the heels of data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) showing trade between the UK and EU had been hit hard in January, with overall exports down by 40.7% in January compared to December.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,611
    Boris softening up the public for a foreign holiday ban. No overseas holidays until 4 October I reckon.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    TOPPING said:

    @Malmesbury

    Looking at the decline cases, it seems strange when the R seems to be relatively high, bobbing around 1 and above it in many areas?

    Or am I misreading it all?

    Cases are kinda level now - 0-14 rising, the other falling slowly. The local R is almost useless at this level - a couple of cases and it's all over the place.

    The school openings was a balancing act, which the government seems to have just pulled off. You can see a clear "turn" in the cases to a slower rate of decline, apart from the increase in the 0-14.

    R never really fell deeply below 1 - this is the new variants and why the Europeans are upset about vaccines. Without vaccines, a fairly hard lockdown can hold it a bit below 1.

    The big decline in deaths is because of the vaccine effect decoupling the cases from deaths - see the CFR. This is why the government is very keen to get everyone in the 50+ groups - once you are down to 50, that's a lot of the hospitalisation risk as well.
    It's interesting how different this seems from Israel: they have R well below 1 despite fewer restrictions, with not many more vaccinated than us. Do you think that's just because their vaccination level was more significantly higher than ours 3 weeks ago, because of 2nd doses (in my view unlikely), because the age range of their vaccinated population is different, or because they don't have our variant?

    PS: I did reply to your message about the CFR methodology but it got end-of-threaded so I don't know if you saw it.

    --AS
    Didn't see the message about CFR methodology.... sorry!

    They have a considerably higher vaccination rate - they have given 60% of the *whole population* at least one dose. Which is getting into the herd immunity zone. To compare, we've given about 40% of the whole population one dose.

    Just did a bit of digging - very large number of children in the Israeli population. Which means that they have vaccinated 77% or thereabouts of the adult population.....
    It's at the end of a thread from last night, but basically yes I think your methodology is okay.

    I hadn't noticed the distinction between adults and all people. The next 6 weeks' data is really the acid test for the UK, I think.

    --AS
    Yes - it's a big deal for Israel with their relatively huge number of children. 77% of the adult population really puts it in perspective.... They are running low on people to jab.
    They’ve got a fair few religious refuseniks too, mostly among the orthodox communities - and most of them probably have the other sort of herd immunity by now.

    UAE are up to 75 vaccines/100 population, have just changed the criteria from over 40s to over 18s for the Pfizer vaccine, and have been over 18s for Sinopharm for about a month now. Should be done and dusted by May, then there’s talk of giving vaccines to tourists!
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1374059492158095363?s=21


    Thanks Dave. Nice to know the EU is actively discussing a plan to ‘target the UK’, even if he thinks that’s a fairly unlikely outcome

    If the did that, why the hell would we ever trust the EU about anything important ever again?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,247

    Disgusting and shameful. I did warn all you Boris fanboys that he would do profoundly unconservative things.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1374050334511923202

    The smallest army we've had since the 1700s and the RAF really do become the few.

    A drone is better than a soldier now. Ask the Armenians

    https://twitter.com/ognreports/status/1344690074122915843?s=21
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    kinabalu said:

    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    Not really. Viewing this as a detached outsider I had little doubt about the essential conclusion. Some cock up and confusion? Yes. Some less than ideal processes and comms? Yes. But a conspiracy to nail and jail Salmon and pervert the course of justice? No. Not for me. Not in a million years.
    But Hamilton was not investigating the conspiracy charge, was he? I thought he was looking at Ministerial misconduct, which would not necessarily require conspiracy.
    Yes, I don't mean just this Hamilton Report. The "conspiracy", I think fails on every level. That's one for Sturgeon haters within the SNP and Sindy haters both north and south of the border.
    You don't 'think' that, you've refused to look into the matter because it's thuddingly obvious what the evidence wold point you to. Even TUD hasn't had the cojones to mount an actual defense of Sturgeon's behaviour, wisely sticking to firing pot shots at 'Yoons' instead. Hanging on to your own ignorance like a barnacle isn't an actual contribution to the debate.
    I have great judgement. I trust it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917

    Disgusting and shameful. I did warn all you Boris fanboys that he would do profoundly unconservative things.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1374050334511923202

    The smallest army we've had since the 1700s and the RAF really do become the few.

    SAVAGE TORY CUTS!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    You need to vote Tory, both in the constituency and list, only that way can you get rid of Sturgeon.

    Tell all your friends that as well.
    Doesn't that depend where they live? And what is the message? "The SNP are incompetent are corrupt. Vote Tory for competent corruption"? As well as "If you are Scottish we don;t care what you think".
    The message is the Union first and always, despite your Nat appeasing treachery not only to your sovereign country but even to your own Unionist party
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited March 2021

    Disgusting and shameful. I did warn all you Boris fanboys that he would do profoundly unconservative things.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1374050334511923202

    The smallest army we've had since the 1700s and the RAF really do become the few.

    Ahem.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-11578003

    David Cameron unveils cuts to armed forces

    David Cameron has confirmed defence spending is to be cut by 8% in real terms over four years, as he unveiled the strategic defence review.

    He said RAF and Navy numbers would be reduced by 5,000 each, Army numbers by 7,000 and the Ministry of Defence would lose 25,000 civilian staff by 2015.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Leon said:

    Disgusting and shameful. I did warn all you Boris fanboys that he would do profoundly unconservative things.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1374050334511923202

    The smallest army we've had since the 1700s and the RAF really do become the few.

    A drone is better than a soldier now. Ask the Armenians

    https://twitter.com/ognreports/status/1344690074122915843?s=21
    Awfully nice of the Armenians and Azerbaijanis to have a war to provide some test data on this stuff. Repeat studies are important though.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Disgusting and shameful. I did warn all you Boris fanboys that he would do profoundly unconservative things.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1374050334511923202

    The smallest army we've had since the 1700s and the RAF really do become the few.

    A drone is better than a soldier now. Ask the Armenians

    https://twitter.com/ognreports/status/1344690074122915843?s=21
    Awfully nice of the Armenians and Azerbaijanis to have a war to provide some test data on this stuff. Repeat studies are important though.
    Keep an eye on Ukraine then......
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,084
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:


    Thanks Dave. Nice to know the EU is actively discussing a plan to ‘target the UK’, even if he thinks that’s a fairly unlikely outcome

    I wouldn't worry about pillocko-Dave. He's a bit dim. Here he was 10 minutes ago:

    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1374059505038807055

    He still hasn't noticed that the USA ended their ban on exports to Canada and Mexico four days ago:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/18/us-astrazeneca-vaccine-doses-mexico-canada

    The above may be correct, or not. I think the bits about derailing the UK rollout are BS, as probably is the bit about 10m doses exported to UK since February. And some others.

    He should worry a little more about the EC behaving like Dick Turpin.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Boris softening up the public for a foreign holiday ban. No overseas holidays until 4 October I reckon.

    If it means no more lockdowns then good.
  • Disgusting and shameful. I did warn all you Boris fanboys that he would do profoundly unconservative things.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1374050334511923202

    The smallest army we've had since the 1700s and the RAF really do become the few.

    Ahem.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-11578003

    David Cameron unveils cuts to armed forces

    David Cameron has confirmed defence spending is to be cut by 8% in real terms over four years, as he unveiled the strategic defence review.

    He said RAF and Navy numbers would be reduced by 5,000 each, Army numbers by 7,000 and the Ministry of Defence would lose 25,000 civilian staff by 2015.
    But he wasn't breaking a manifesto pledge like Boris Johnson did.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,869
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    Plus Mr Wings being against gender self-id and hate crime policies (and wokeness generally).
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    Disgusting and shameful. I did warn all you Boris fanboys that he would do profoundly unconservative things.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1374050334511923202

    The smallest army we've had since the 1700s and the RAF really do become the few.

    I don't like it, but headcounts aren't that important.

    I really wonder why we need to have more nukes - I don't doubt that there's a good argument for it, but I just can't imagine what it is, and that's not being shared.

    The new fighter jet sounds a better step. Space stuff, although perhaps pie-in-the-sky (pun vaguely intended) will clearly be quite important in the future. A few Russian rocks above our heads would be unanswerable, although happily they'd never do that because they'd run some small risk of damaging Salisbury cathedral.

    What's quite clear is that we waste at least some money on our defence expenditure. If (big if) this leads to wasting less then that'd be good.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,973

    Boris softening up the public for a foreign holiday ban. No overseas holidays until 4 October I reckon.

    If it means no more lockdowns then good.
    I would be inclined to agree.

    Though I’d be gutted to miss my Florida trip in September I’d been half expecting it
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,629

    Bizarre "principle" that says life saving legally signed medicine contracts should be voided by politicians.
    Given people have speculated that he is possibly being briefed in order to fly kites for the commission I suspect despite most regarding him as a joke this may well indeed be what uvdl is thinking.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited March 2021

    Disgusting and shameful. I did warn all you Boris fanboys that he would do profoundly unconservative things.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1374050334511923202

    The smallest army we've had since the 1700s and the RAF really do become the few.

    Ahem.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-11578003

    David Cameron unveils cuts to armed forces

    David Cameron has confirmed defence spending is to be cut by 8% in real terms over four years, as he unveiled the strategic defence review.

    He said RAF and Navy numbers would be reduced by 5,000 each, Army numbers by 7,000 and the Ministry of Defence would lose 25,000 civilian staff by 2015.
    But he wasn't breaking a manifesto pledge like Boris Johnson did.
    Given that the manifesto was written before the epochal global pandemic made itself known, I imagine most people will understand.

    If it were up to me, we'd be increasing the size of our armed forces and making savings elsewhere. But however much the public claim to love the military, in practice they're not terribly keen on paying more in taxes or enjoying fewer services in order to fund it.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Disgusting and shameful. I did warn all you Boris fanboys that he would do profoundly unconservative things.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1374050334511923202

    The smallest army we've had since the 1700s and the RAF really do become the few.

    Ahem.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-11578003

    David Cameron unveils cuts to armed forces

    David Cameron has confirmed defence spending is to be cut by 8% in real terms over four years, as he unveiled the strategic defence review.

    He said RAF and Navy numbers would be reduced by 5,000 each, Army numbers by 7,000 and the Ministry of Defence would lose 25,000 civilian staff by 2015.
    But he wasn't breaking a manifesto pledge like Boris Johnson did.
    DC did pledge in the 2010 manifesto to keep the armed forces budget the same until 2011 which he didn't manage. So I guess he breaks his promises quicker than Boris.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,084

    AN interesting EU point would be whether the plan is to use Article 122, or the existing scheme which requires initiation by a country. This is the best description of the EU videoconference I have seen:

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1374014231499137029
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1374059492158095363?s=21


    Thanks Dave. Nice to know the EU is actively discussing a plan to ‘target the UK’, even if he thinks that’s a fairly unlikely outcome

    It's a matter of principle that UK grannies die, didn't you know?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,620
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Disgusting and shameful. I did warn all you Boris fanboys that he would do profoundly unconservative things.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1374050334511923202

    The smallest army we've had since the 1700s and the RAF really do become the few.

    A drone is better than a soldier now. Ask the Armenians

    https://twitter.com/ognreports/status/1344690074122915843?s=21
    Awfully nice of the Armenians and Azerbaijanis to have a war to provide some test data on this stuff. Repeat studies are important though.
    Shades of the Russo-Japanese war.

    Captain Pakenham, whose report on Tsushima sent the Royal Navy towards the all big gun battleships (aka Dreadnoughts), was an interesting character. He was pacing the deck of the Japanese battleship, observing the battle, apparently disregarding the Russian fire. A Japanese sailor was killed next to him. Drenched with blood, Pakenham went below. His disappearance was noted by the Japanese officers - who were apparently impressed to see him return within minutes in a fresh dress uniform, and carry on as if nothing had happened.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,247
    edited March 2021
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,749
    edited March 2021
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    'His report said Ms Sturgeon had given an "incomplete narrative of events" to MSPs.

    But he said this was a "genuine failure of recollection" and not deliberate.

    Mr Hamilton said he was therefore of the opinion that Ms Sturgeon had not breached any of the provisions of the code.'

    So Sturgeon did not give a full account to MSPs but can be absolved because of a poor memory

    That doesn't follow. In fact it's the opposite. Anyone who can give a 100% complete narrative of complex events that happened a while ago is almost certainly lying. A memory lapse in places adds veracity. Any copper or lawyer or psychiatrist will confirm this.
    But her memory of a brief discussion with Salmond five months earlier, in more hectic times, was excellent:

    “So I suppose the two things that just left me with a lingering concern was the fact that- and I struggle really to go beyond what I’m about to say to youthat his contacting people in the Scottish Government had appeared to almost stir something, a hornet’s nest had been stirred kind of thing. That was the impression I got. And then he said something to me about, you know, you can’t have stories like this running because you get one and the flood gates will open kind of thing, which he immediately qualified and said “oh no, that’s not to say that I think there is anything there”. But it was just the combination of things left me with a “is there something that is about to come forward about Mr Salmond’s behaviour?”

    Accepted at face value😉
  • RobD said:

    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1374059492158095363?s=21


    Thanks Dave. Nice to know the EU is actively discussing a plan to ‘target the UK’, even if he thinks that’s a fairly unlikely outcome

    It's a matter of principle that UK grannies die, didn't you know?
    Yet you were awfully quiet when Boris Johnson threatened to ruin medicine supplies to the UK when he said he would go for no deal.

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/10/englands-top-medical-chief-warns-deaths-no-deal-brexit-10895809/

    At times the modern world is governed by complete tosspots.
  • HYUFD said:

    I've been out for a spin on the bike, so missed the Big News. A few rather obvious conclusions:
    1. All such enquiries are scrupulous and impartial if you like the findings and an obvious whitewash if you don't
    2. Sturgeon and the SNP will use this to wipe away all of the insinuations being made
    3. The Tories look like opportunist prannocks pursuing a "guilty until proven innocent" strategy, complete with a "she broke the ministerial code" leak which was plain wrong
    4. Watch for the SNP bounce. Being cleared in the middle of an election campaign can't do anything other than good.

    There will be no SNP bounce, the cover up by an SNP appointee will be far more damaging.

    It will not change anyone's mind, despite your Nat appeasing
    You'd know all about Scottish politics from your Essicks manor with your "fuck you Scotch people" position.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,611

    Boris softening up the public for a foreign holiday ban. No overseas holidays until 4 October I reckon.

    If it means no more lockdowns then good.
    I would be inclined to agree.

    Though I’d be gutted to miss my Florida trip in September I’d been half expecting it
    Think it’s possible they exempt the US, due to its booming vax programme. We’ll see.
  • HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    You need to vote Tory, both in the constituency and list, only that way can you get rid of Sturgeon.

    Tell all your friends that as well.
    Doesn't that depend where they live? And what is the message? "The SNP are incompetent are corrupt. Vote Tory for competent corruption"? As well as "If you are Scottish we don;t care what you think".
    The message is the Union first and always, despite your Nat appeasing treachery not only to your sovereign country but even to your own Unionist party
    Yes, I am a Traitor to England by moving to Scotland.

    Comedy gold mate.
  • I want to make a joke about swingers (possibly including Lib Dems) but can't think of one.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    MattW said:


    AN interesting EU point would be whether the plan is to use Article 122, or the existing scheme which requires initiation by a country. This is the best description of the EU videoconference I have seen:

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1374014231499137029

    Presumably Belgium, Netherlands and Ireland are going to give the Commission both barrels, at the suggestion that the EU should ride roughshod over huge industries in those countries purely to cover for their own incompetence?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1374059492158095363?s=21


    Thanks Dave. Nice to know the EU is actively discussing a plan to ‘target the UK’, even if he thinks that’s a fairly unlikely outcome

    It's a matter of principle that UK grannies die, didn't you know?
    "Targeting a country" because they believe that contracts entered into in good faith should be held to? And where, despite all the huffing and puffing, there is no evidence provided that any EU signed contracts are being broken (other than a feeling based on "it's all so unfair").

    Interesting "matter of principle" that some think is important to uphold...
  • HYUFD said:

    I've been out for a spin on the bike, so missed the Big News. A few rather obvious conclusions:
    1. All such enquiries are scrupulous and impartial if you like the findings and an obvious whitewash if you don't
    2. Sturgeon and the SNP will use this to wipe away all of the insinuations being made
    3. The Tories look like opportunist prannocks pursuing a "guilty until proven innocent" strategy, complete with a "she broke the ministerial code" leak which was plain wrong
    4. Watch for the SNP bounce. Being cleared in the middle of an election campaign can't do anything other than good.

    There will be no SNP bounce, the cover up by an SNP appointee will be far more damaging.

    It will not change anyone's mind, despite your Nat appeasing
    You'd know all about Scottish politics from your Essicks manor with your "fuck you Scotch people" position.
    You are both as bad as each other
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    I want to make a joke about swingers (possibly including Lib Dems) but can't think of one.

    That's Da vey of the LD's now.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,084

    I want to make a joke about swingers (possibly including Lib Dems) but can't think of one.

    Jokes or Lib Dem swingers?
  • A modest Tory lead continues.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,247

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1374059492158095363?s=21


    Thanks Dave. Nice to know the EU is actively discussing a plan to ‘target the UK’, even if he thinks that’s a fairly unlikely outcome

    It's a matter of principle that UK grannies die, didn't you know?
    Yet you were awfully quiet when Boris Johnson threatened to ruin medicine supplies to the UK when he said he would go for no deal.

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/10/englands-top-medical-chief-warns-deaths-no-deal-brexit-10895809/

    At times the modern world is governed by complete tosspots.
    Point of order. A ‘tosspot’ is a drunk. Boris is many things, often bad, but he’s not an alky. You possibly mean ‘tosser’ - a compulsive masturbator, who can’t get sex. But that doesn’t fit Boris either (he’s boasted about never have to whack off in thirty years)

    So maybe you mean ‘bampot’ - an objectionable and foolish person, in Scotch patois?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,247

    I want to make a joke about swingers (possibly including Lib Dems) but can't think of one.

    Yet another Russian double agent infiltrates our ranks with coded messages
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835

    I want to make a joke about swingers (possibly including Lib Dems) but can't think of one.

    Is the Lib Dem the one in the middle?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    You need to vote Tory, both in the constituency and list, only that way can you get rid of Sturgeon.

    Tell all your friends that as well.
    Doesn't that depend where they live? And what is the message? "The SNP are incompetent are corrupt. Vote Tory for competent corruption"? As well as "If you are Scottish we don;t care what you think".
    The message is the Union first and always, despite your Nat appeasing treachery not only to your sovereign country but even to your own Unionist party
    Yes, I am a Traitor to England by moving to Scotland.

    Comedy gold mate.
    A traitor to the UK certainly by pushing the SNP line and also out of kilter with the Unionist position of your own LD party
  • Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1374059492158095363?s=21


    Thanks Dave. Nice to know the EU is actively discussing a plan to ‘target the UK’, even if he thinks that’s a fairly unlikely outcome

    It's a matter of principle that UK grannies die, didn't you know?
    Yet you were awfully quiet when Boris Johnson threatened to ruin medicine supplies to the UK when he said he would go for no deal.

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/10/englands-top-medical-chief-warns-deaths-no-deal-brexit-10895809/

    At times the modern world is governed by complete tosspots.
    Point of order. A ‘tosspot’ is a drunk. Boris is many things, often bad, but he’s not an alky. You possibly mean ‘tosser’ - a compulsive masturbator, who can’t get sex. But that doesn’t fit Boris either (he’s boasted about never have to whack off in thirty years)

    So maybe you mean ‘bampot’ - an objectionable and foolish person, in Scotch patois?
    That was the original meaning but the word has evolved as urbandictionary can attest to.
  • Leon said:

    I want to make a joke about swingers (possibly including Lib Dems) but can't think of one.

    Yet another Russian double agent infiltrates our ranks with coded messages
    LOL. I'm afraid I lost my password though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,084

    I want to make a joke about swingers (possibly including Lib Dems) but can't think of one.

    What about Myrna Bushell, a *very* liberal Democrat who took the party whip?

    https://www.anorak.co.uk/175485/news/myrna-bushell-is-devons-very-liberal-democrat.html
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,973
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    You need to vote Tory, both in the constituency and list, only that way can you get rid of Sturgeon.

    Tell all your friends that as well.
    Doesn't that depend where they live? And what is the message? "The SNP are incompetent are corrupt. Vote Tory for competent corruption"? As well as "If you are Scottish we don;t care what you think".
    The message is the Union first and always, despite your Nat appeasing treachery not only to your sovereign country but even to your own Unionist party
    Yes, I am a Traitor to England by moving to Scotland.

    Comedy gold mate.
    A traitor to the UK certainly by pushing the SNP line and also out of kilter with the Unionist position of your own LD party
    ..time to send in the tanks?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,247

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1374059492158095363?s=21


    Thanks Dave. Nice to know the EU is actively discussing a plan to ‘target the UK’, even if he thinks that’s a fairly unlikely outcome

    It's a matter of principle that UK grannies die, didn't you know?
    Yet you were awfully quiet when Boris Johnson threatened to ruin medicine supplies to the UK when he said he would go for no deal.

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/10/englands-top-medical-chief-warns-deaths-no-deal-brexit-10895809/

    At times the modern world is governed by complete tosspots.
    Point of order. A ‘tosspot’ is a drunk. Boris is many things, often bad, but he’s not an alky. You possibly mean ‘tosser’ - a compulsive masturbator, who can’t get sex. But that doesn’t fit Boris either (he’s boasted about never have to whack off in thirty years)

    So maybe you mean ‘bampot’ - an objectionable and foolish person, in Scotch patois?
    That was the original meaning but the word has evolved as urbandictionary can attest to.
    It’s not my fault if some ill-informed bampots don’t know how to use English properly

    Talking of bampots, this Jon Worth guy is British, I think? Incredible

    https://twitter.com/v_j_freeman/status/1373913570468110344?s=21
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1374059492158095363?s=21


    Thanks Dave. Nice to know the EU is actively discussing a plan to ‘target the UK’, even if he thinks that’s a fairly unlikely outcome

    It's a matter of principle that UK grannies die, didn't you know?
    Yet you were awfully quiet when Boris Johnson threatened to ruin medicine supplies to the UK when he said he would go for no deal.

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/10/englands-top-medical-chief-warns-deaths-no-deal-brexit-10895809/

    At times the modern world is governed by complete tosspots.
    Point of order. A ‘tosspot’ is a drunk. Boris is many things, often bad, but he’s not an alky. You possibly mean ‘tosser’ - a compulsive masturbator, who can’t get sex. But that doesn’t fit Boris either (he’s boasted about never have to whack off in thirty years)

    So maybe you mean ‘bampot’ - an objectionable and foolish person, in Scotch patois?
    So we’ve all been wrong. You’re not SeanT, you’re the bastard love child of John Cleese’s centurion and Chris Heaton-Harris.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    sarissa said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    'His report said Ms Sturgeon had given an "incomplete narrative of events" to MSPs.

    But he said this was a "genuine failure of recollection" and not deliberate.

    Mr Hamilton said he was therefore of the opinion that Ms Sturgeon had not breached any of the provisions of the code.'

    So Sturgeon did not give a full account to MSPs but can be absolved because of a poor memory

    That doesn't follow. In fact it's the opposite. Anyone who can give a 100% complete narrative of complex events that happened a while ago is almost certainly lying. A memory lapse in places adds veracity. Any copper or lawyer or psychiatrist will confirm this.
    But her memory of a brief discussion with Salmond five months earlier, in more hectic times, was excellent:

    “So I suppose the two things that just left me with a lingering concern was the fact that- and I struggle really to go beyond what I’m about to say to youthat his contacting people in the Scottish Government had appeared to almost stir something, a hornet’s nest had been stirred kind of thing. That was the impression I got. And then he said something to me about, you know, you can’t have stories like this running because you get one and the flood gates will open kind of thing, which he immediately qualified and said “oh no, that’s not to say that I think there is anything there”. But it was just the combination of things left me with a “is there something that is about to come forward about Mr Salmond’s behaviour?”

    Accepted at face value😉
    Yes. So some things stick clearly in memory. Clearer than others. That's how life is. That's how people are. I find nothing per se suspicious about that.

    But just to be clear. I'm specifically talking about the notion she conspired to pervert the course of justice and bang up an innocent man for fabricated crimes.

    That is a terribly grave allegation which for me fails on every level. The evidence is not there for it. The motive is not there for it. That's my opinion. And I note that most of those pushing it down here in England are very bitter opponents of Scottish Independence.
  • I've never really thought that the Sturgeon ministerial code thing was that big of a deal. I mean 28th March/2nd April. If I was Scottish I'd be far more concerned about the behaviour of the crown office and their abuse of victim anonymity so as to avoid scrutiny from both parliament and the media.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    MattW said:

    I want to make a joke about swingers (possibly including Lib Dems) but can't think of one.

    What about Myrna Bushell, a *very* liberal Democrat who took the party whip?

    https://www.anorak.co.uk/175485/news/myrna-bushell-is-devons-very-liberal-democrat.html
    The whip, and chains, and schoolgirl outfit...
  • HYUFD said:

    I've been out for a spin on the bike, so missed the Big News. A few rather obvious conclusions:
    1. All such enquiries are scrupulous and impartial if you like the findings and an obvious whitewash if you don't
    2. Sturgeon and the SNP will use this to wipe away all of the insinuations being made
    3. The Tories look like opportunist prannocks pursuing a "guilty until proven innocent" strategy, complete with a "she broke the ministerial code" leak which was plain wrong
    4. Watch for the SNP bounce. Being cleared in the middle of an election campaign can't do anything other than good.

    There will be no SNP bounce, the cover up by an SNP appointee will be far more damaging.

    It will not change anyone's mind, despite your Nat appeasing
    You'd know all about Scottish politics from your Essicks manor with your "fuck you Scotch people" position.
    You are both as bad as each other
    I am? When did I claim that the opinions of Essicks people didn't matter? Or claim to know their views at all?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741
    HYUFD said:


    The message is the Union first and always, despite your Nat appeasing treachery not only to your sovereign country but even to your own Unionist party

    How fortunate you are then to have Nicola Sturgeon as FM of Scotland. She may talk about Independence, she may threaten Independence but she doesn't really want to have another referendum. The talk is to appease her own side and especially those who haven't figured it out yet.

    The SNP are the Union's biggest allies - they don't want a referendum because the politics of an independent Scotland will mean their demise - as you well know, political parties exist to achieve an unachievable goal, whether it be conservatism, socialism or liberalism. Independence is achievable - once it happens, the SNP has no more purpose and will fall apart.

    You know that, I know that and Nicola Sturgeon knows that so we can all carry on dancing the dance ad infinitum - Sturgeon threatens an Independence referendum, the British Conservative PM rebuffs her. Said PM can use the threat of the SNP "controlling" a future Labour Government to keep the English Conservatives in line.

    It also bolsters Sturgeon who can rail against the "English Tories" to bolster her support.

    It's not good for Scottish Conservatives who, along with the Labour and the LDs are feted to be bit players but as you say, the Union is all that matters and if the Scottish Conservatives are the price for preserving that Union, it's a price worth paying.

    The SNP and the Conservatives exist symbiotically - they are dependent on each other and as soon as that is realised everything else makes sense.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,287
    Its like the Hutton report all over again...
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    You need to vote Tory, both in the constituency and list, only that way can you get rid of Sturgeon.

    Tell all your friends that as well.
    Doesn't that depend where they live? And what is the message? "The SNP are incompetent are corrupt. Vote Tory for competent corruption"? As well as "If you are Scottish we don;t care what you think".
    The message is the Union first and always, despite your Nat appeasing treachery not only to your sovereign country but even to your own Unionist party
    Yes, I am a Traitor to England by moving to Scotland.

    Comedy gold mate.
    A traitor to the UK certainly by pushing the SNP line and also out of kilter with the Unionist position of your own LD party
    The position of the LibDems is FEDERALISM you pillock https://www.libdems.org.uk/a20-federal-uk
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Its like the Hutton report all over again...

    Hutton was the bastion of judicial impartiality, by comparison.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741
    On the day the armed forces take another set of cuts from a Conservative-led Government, I presume the Services will be queuing up to wish Boris "Two Jets" Johnson all the best?
  • NEW THREAD

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    I've never really thought that the Sturgeon ministerial code thing was that big of a deal. I mean 28th March/2nd April. If I was Scottish I'd be far more concerned about the behaviour of the crown office and their abuse of victim anonymity so as to avoid scrutiny from both parliament and the media.

    There certainly needs to be some revision of the Scottish government structure. I presume that's widely accepted. I see nothing remarkable really about that - if you invent these things then you'll have to release a version 2.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    You need to vote Tory, both in the constituency and list, only that way can you get rid of Sturgeon.

    Tell all your friends that as well.
    Doesn't that depend where they live? And what is the message? "The SNP are incompetent are corrupt. Vote Tory for competent corruption"? As well as "If you are Scottish we don;t care what you think".
    The message is the Union first and always, despite your Nat appeasing treachery not only to your sovereign country but even to your own Unionist party
    Yes, I am a Traitor to England by moving to Scotland.

    Comedy gold mate.
    A traitor to the UK certainly by pushing the SNP line and also out of kilter with the Unionist position of your own LD party
    The position of the LibDems is FEDERALISM you pillock https://www.libdems.org.uk/a20-federal-uk
    Within the UK and firmly opposed to Scottish independence
  • Lord Sumption (who represented the government at the Hutton inquiry) had this to say about Lord Hutton. 'He's the sort of person who tends to see things in black and white terms'
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    The wiki guerilla editors certainly caught a few dim ones..

    https://twitter.com/mrmcenaney/status/1374058423336251401?s=21
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    You need to vote Tory, both in the constituency and list, only that way can you get rid of Sturgeon.

    Tell all your friends that as well.
    Doesn't that depend where they live? And what is the message? "The SNP are incompetent are corrupt. Vote Tory for competent corruption"? As well as "If you are Scottish we don;t care what you think".
    The message is the Union first and always, despite your Nat appeasing treachery not only to your sovereign country but even to your own Unionist party
    Yes, I am a Traitor to England by moving to Scotland.

    Comedy gold mate.
    A traitor to the UK certainly by pushing the SNP line and also out of kilter with the Unionist position of your own LD party
    The position of the LibDems is FEDERALISM you pillock https://www.libdems.org.uk/a20-federal-uk
    Within the UK and firmly opposed to Scottish independence
    That isn't Unionism like you said. The Union is broken hence the need for federalism. So the opposite of what you said.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Mr Campbell is not very happy: https://wingsoverscotland.com/

    Curiously, and entirely by coincidence he has focused on exactly the same paragraph as I quoted down thread. It is a rather peculiar one.

    It isn't all bad.

    Much else in his report is bizarre. But that one paragraph alone destroys its credibility utterly and forever. And unfortunately that means that Scotland is lost. Independence is over. All is destroyed.
    I don’t understand the intricacies of internal Sindy disputes. Why does Wings hate Sturgeon? Is it because he thinks she won’t press for UDI if indyref2 is refused? Or just some loyalty to Eck?
    She has done nothing for 6 years, keeps kicking the can down the road, between them her and her husband take in 300K, they have wrecked the SNP and left it with no cash and the £600K ring fenced referendum cash is not to be found. Apart from stitching up Salmond as well. This mob have no intention of pushing referendum , they will once again make all the right noises to get elected and then sit back and fill their boots for another 5 years.
    You need to vote Tory, both in the constituency and list, only that way can you get rid of Sturgeon.

    Tell all your friends that as well.
    Doesn't that depend where they live? And what is the message? "The SNP are incompetent are corrupt. Vote Tory for competent corruption"? As well as "If you are Scottish we don;t care what you think".
    The message is the Union first and always, despite your Nat appeasing treachery not only to your sovereign country but even to your own Unionist party
    Yes, I am a Traitor to England by moving to Scotland.

    Comedy gold mate.
    A traitor to the UK certainly by pushing the SNP line and also out of kilter with the Unionist position of your own LD party
    The position of the LibDems is FEDERALISM you pillock https://www.libdems.org.uk/a20-federal-uk
    Within the UK and firmly opposed to Scottish independence
    That isn't Unionism like you said. The Union is broken hence the need for federalism. So the opposite of what you said.
    There is no contradiction between having a Union and Federalism, see the Union of the United States of America for starters, though we could start with having an English Parliament to match those of the other home nations
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,878
    I don’t get this. If it was from him personally, he should pay. If from an organisation, he shouldn’t. Does the queen buy hers from her pocket money?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,247
    Even NZ starting to suffer from COVID-19, in their own way.

    They’ve been stuck on their isolated archipelago for a year. No one gets in, no one gets out

    https://twitter.com/jo_moir/status/1374077768976138240?s=21
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1374059492158095363?s=21


    Thanks Dave. Nice to know the EU is actively discussing a plan to ‘target the UK’, even if he thinks that’s a fairly unlikely outcome

    It's a matter of principle that UK grannies die, didn't you know?
    Yet you were awfully quiet when Boris Johnson threatened to ruin medicine supplies to the UK when he said he would go for no deal.

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/10/englands-top-medical-chief-warns-deaths-no-deal-brexit-10895809/

    At times the modern world is governed by complete tosspots.
    Point of order. A ‘tosspot’ is a drunk. Boris is many things, often bad, but he’s not an alky. You possibly mean ‘tosser’ - a compulsive masturbator, who can’t get sex. But that doesn’t fit Boris either (he’s boasted about never have to whack off in thirty years)

    So maybe you mean ‘bampot’ - an objectionable and foolish person, in Scotch patois?
    Nothing wrong with masturbation, @Leon!
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    Leon said:

    Despite her (increasingly obvious) flaws I’ve some respect for Sturgeon as a wily, effective politician. Quite a survivor.

    In a decade or so she'll be the best prime minister we never had...
This discussion has been closed.