What a shame that the idiocy of TSE's anti-monarchist dribbling in the comments has now translated into a fatuous and pointless thread header.
We were far better discussing biscuits.
I'm relaxed about it!
The Royal Family have been Head of State for 1,000 years and will still be so in 1,000 years time.
I am relaxed about it too. I don't care if it is this family or another (any Stuarts or Plantagenets still out there who could have a go?) as long as we are not a republic. My affection is for the office not the holder.
But this is simply a bad article, full of unsupportable claims and bias and pointless when nothing will change and there are so many other far more interesting subjects to discuss.
Here's what happened.
I had written two pieces for this weekend, first one was the electoral voting systems one which I wrote on Thursday night the other one was about Scotland, a deep dive into the Holyrood polling, which I wrote on Friday and yesterday.
However two polls appeared in the last 12 hours or so, one at just after midnight, and one at just after 1pm today.
However the data tables haven't been released and I didn't want to write an incomplete piece so I had a look at what YouGov had posted this week and did this piece on it.
What a shame that the idiocy of TSE's anti-monarchist dribbling in the comments has now translated into a fatuous and pointless thread header.
We were far better discussing biscuits.
I'm relaxed about it!
The Royal Family have been Head of State for 1,000 years and will still be so in 1,000 years time.
Out of interest, when would you date the start of the Royal Family's rule as Head of State?
Surely Alfred the Great would be considered the first true monarch.
Thats a misconception he was actually called alfred the grate because he had a high pitched nasal whiny voice just sucessive generations have misinterpreted grate for great....nods.
Sounds legit. I'm sold.
I'd heard he was called Alfred the Grey Tit, but the local pattern of speech tended to swallow the last syllable ...
One thing i would like to know is what analyis the Government scientists have done of countries further afield that haven't implemented the same sort of measures that we have, but have never approached (we are led to believe) the sort of crisis levels that we did here.
Places like Japan. Because before we contemplate any sort of future lockdown measures, we need to rule out why they weren't required there. Does it really all come down to banning international travel?
I am also mildly intrigued by South Korea - they appear to have been registering something like 4-600 cases a day, and up to around 10 deaths a day for weeks. I know their testing regime is supposed to be brilliant, but can it really be that effective in keeping levels at permanently low (but not non-existent) levels?
What a shame that the idiocy of TSE's anti-monarchist dribbling in the comments has now translated into a fatuous and pointless thread header.
We were far better discussing biscuits.
I'm relaxed about it!
The Royal Family have been Head of State for 1,000 years and will still be so in 1,000 years time.
I am relaxed about it too. I don't care if it is this family or another (any Stuarts or Plantagenets still out there who could have a go?) as long as we are not a republic. My affection is for the office not the holder.
But this is simply a bad article, full of unsupportable claims and bias and pointless when nothing will change and there are so many other far more interesting subjects to discuss.
Here's what happened.
I had written two pieces for this weekend, first one was the electoral voting systems one which I wrote on Thursday night the other one was about Scotland, a deep dive into the Holyrood polling, which I wrote on Friday and yesterday.
However two polls appeared in the last 12 hours or so, one at just after midnight, and one at just after 1pm today.
However the data tables haven't been released and I didn't want to write an incomplete piece so I had a look at what YouGov had posted this week and did this piece on it.
This for Survation 10-17 March 2016: ie the same point in the Holyrood campaign.
SNP - 54%/42% Labour - 20%/18% Cons - 16%/18% Lib Dems - 7%/6% Green - -/10%
Have you done your census yet.
Still time
I await the hard form!
The one with the £1,000 fine
I don't think so. How can they prove I even received their brief Census leaflet? More likely someone will come with a form eventually - at which point I will complete it.
The problem is you have been discussing it today so you cannot say you were unaware, or that you could complete it online as confirmed by several posters and the way to obtain your census number
You are being deliberately obtuse and risk the fine
In fairness to Justin - and it’s not as though he and I are bosom friends - he’s not saying he won’t complete it, just that he will only complete it on paper and he doesn’t see why he should have to chase them for it.
Which isn’t radically different from my own situation on Thursday evening, where I said I was willing to fill it in but not ring them up to ask where the form was given I should not have to waste my time for their error.
It's not an error though, is it? The forms aren't being mailed out in England by default. If you want one, you have to request one.
So how come I got one?
The only explanation I can think of, unless you really did ring them up for me, is they somehow realised they hadn’t sent out the original form and it was quicker to prepare and send a full paper copy rather than a net slip.
What error are you complaining about then if you already received the form? That explanation sounds reasonable.
I’m not, although I did give them a volley in the feedback. I am saying that if it hadn’t arrived, while i’ve no objection to filling in the census (for all I wonder about its real utility) I wouldn’t have wasted my time chasing them up.
And I do, again, agree with Justin that it should have been much more readily available on paper. Perhaps an early deadline of last Sunday for online, followed by the mailing out of paper copies to any remaining addresses.
Bottom line is, the government demands this information, so they should be willing to be flexible about how people return it.
They are very flexible, giving you either option. You just have to spend less than a minute online to request a paper copy if you want one.
Indeed. If you can't go online to take the census, you can order a paper copy...online. Durrr.
A friend who doesn't have internet access couldn't find the reference to paper copies in the leaflet - the impression she got was that she'd need to visit a local census office, which would possibly break pandemic rules. I sorted it out for her but I admit it wasn't obvious at first glance - clearly the Government wanted it to be online and just added the paper option as a last resort.
I'm trying to think how much difference there is between the vaccine number rampers and those party members you see clapping manically in communist states as the Dear Leader announces the latest tractor stats.
And there's not much really.
You have been vaccinated against a disease with a survival rate of 99 per cent plus. Many get away with mild or zero symptoms. Big deal.
Against that, you still can't go for a drink with friends, go to a political meeting, attend a protest, have a party, exercise at a gym, have a night out at a theatre, restaurant, nightclub or concert hall. Many are not even allowed to work.
Even if these 'treats' (otherwise known as human rights) return, in the longer term, foreign travel looks like a distant pipedream. Summer abroad is getting cancelled because mutant strains innit.
Package holidays to Spain will soon be looked on as the halcyon days. If you aren't under house arrest in the summer the government are going to make jolly sure you are under country arrest.
And the bill for all this is coming soon, its coming right around the corner at you, and it will make you and vast numbers much poorer.
And yet you think you are well off. Goodness.
You really are a [moderated].
You moan like a whore about lockdown but get upset about the quickest route to permanently leave lockdown.
Are you Laurence Fox?
Untold millions have been vaccinated.
We are still in lockdown. The first real tangible dose of freedom for adults is mid May. At the earliest.
What's the difference between that and the tractor stats, really?
thousands of tractors built.
Millions still hungry.
Yeah but building tractors is great.
Untold millions? The stats are actually quite precise. Unfortunately, you seem to be under the impression that you can just stop when the job is incomplete and call it good enough.
And mid-May? Isn't outdoor hospitality opening in a couple of weeks?
What is 'the job?' what is the task? its gone from three weeks to protect the NHS to vaccinating an entire population from a disease 99% plus would survive anyway.
Oh and by the way travel abroad will still be out. And you will still need to social distance. And we reserve the right to bring in new restrictions in the autumn if we feel like it. And you will probably be much poorer.
You have gained little. You have given away much. Some of it isn't coming back anytime soon.
To ensure there isn't yet another wave? That really should be obvious.
And you were saying that the "first real tangible dose of freedom for adults" was going to be mid-May. That's completely wrong, regardless of whether international travel is happening or not.
To be clear - preventing another wave of mass hospitalisations and deaths.
If we can get it down to the incidence of measles, nobody is going to be suggesting continuing with these restrictions, apart from those like Lozza Fox, Contrarian and Topping who want something to whinge about.
Except, there are plenty of scientists who want us to lockdown almost forever, just in case some variant sneaks through. Cf the woman today who said social distancing and masks should be maintained for YEARS - until the whole world is vaccinated.
YEARS?
Go jump in a lake.
We need people like contrarian et al, to fight for the restoration of our liberties (and our economies and sex lives), because otherwise the nanny state boffins will lock us up in perpetuity
Do you think "lockdown forever" is a particularly winning manifesto platform?
The scientists are - I believe - over cautious. And I suspect the UK's experience in the late Autumn and over Christmas has made the government desperate to avoid a third lockdown. (Which means they're letting lockdown two go on for longer than it might.)
I would be loosening restrictions a bit quicker. (And, indeed, California is loosening them rather more quickly than the UK at the moment - indoor dining has reopened, albeit at low capacity, and I look forward to going to an LAFC game next month.)
But the slowness of the UK isn't because of "lockdown forever", it's because they fucked up over Christmas.
I agree, but I am concerned a government petrified of a fourth wave, unduly, will cave in to the puritan scientists.
Because they exist. There are plenty of physicians who think any alcohol is bad for you, and nobody should drink, and, if they ran the government, they would probably prohibit it.
Because they are doctors. All they think about is public health, in a physical sense. That is their solitary goal. They are unable to grasp that for many, booze makes life more bearable, and joyous, and sociable, and we are willing to take the risk of alcohol's downsides to enjoy the upsides
And, of course, scientists can get this stuff very wrong. Let us never forget Jenny Harries and Jonathan Van Tam telling us NOT to wear masks as they are "actively harmful". Have they even apologised?
Well...... I'm not quite sure what to say about this thread header.
In more serious news I've just had a listen to the interview with Mary Ramsay on Marr. I'm confused. She didn't rule out people being able to go on holiday to Europe in the summer though there may be one or two differences to normal. But then at the end she talked about maintaining social distancing for several years?????????? Apparently we've all got used to these lower level restrictions? Which are what? Not being able to visit friends or family indoors? I for one certainly haven't got used to it.
She also seemed to be arguing that the economy was doing just fine with social distancing. Which is, er, a controversial position.
Well with 'lower level restrictions'. Which are what? Presumably not full lockdown but what exactly?
I'm trying to think how much difference there is between the vaccine number rampers and those party members you see clapping manically in communist states as the Dear Leader announces the latest tractor stats.
And there's not much really.
You have been vaccinated against a disease with a survival rate of 99 per cent plus. Many get away with mild or zero symptoms. Big deal.
Against that, you still can't go for a drink with friends, go to a political meeting, attend a protest, have a party, exercise at a gym, have a night out at a theatre, restaurant, nightclub or concert hall. Many are not even allowed to work.
Even if these 'treats' (otherwise known as human rights) return, in the longer term, foreign travel looks like a distant pipedream. Summer abroad is getting cancelled because mutant strains innit.
Package holidays to Spain will soon be looked on as the halcyon days. If you aren't under house arrest in the summer the government are going to make jolly sure you are under country arrest.
And the bill for all this is coming soon, its coming right around the corner at you, and it will make you and vast numbers much poorer.
And yet you think you are well off. Goodness.
You've started shifting the goalposts a bit, haven't you? Almost as if you can sense that you'll look a little bit stupid when in defiance of your dire predictions of permanent lockdown Kim Jong-Boris opens up the country for the summer and everyone's having fun. Except for you.
All I'd say about that is not to count chickens. Even if we assume that the end state of this is that we are basically let out of prison except for foreign travel (which I could happily live with,) and that the Government and the sensible advisers tell the lunatic "social distancing and masks until the Plague has been driven from every last village in Afghanistan" brigade to take a running jump, then I still wouldn't place too much faith in the provisional unlocking timetable.
It'll only take SPI-M to churn out one worrying computer projection and we could all be locked up for weeks or months extra. March 29th looks baked in, but I wouldn't get excited about any of the remaining restrictions after that being binned until it actually happens.
I hear your point about not counting chickens, but unless something drastic changes we really are closing in on the end of this thing as a serious disruption of normal life. Here's Israel's R from a few days ago after doing about 2.5 times as many doses per 100 as we have now - it's dropping like a rock:
I’m not sure you can say that - AIUI the evidence we have is that the vaccines (at least the AZ vaccine) is 90% ineffective against the SA variant.
I’m surprised more isn’t being made of this inconvenient fact by the media.
Go on pbers- tell me I’m panicking over nothing...?!!
Ineffective against spread, but not against serious illness/hospitalisations/deaths.
Also i read somewhere that there had been some recent revisions of the original numbers?
The NEJM only dealt with mild/moderate disease. It was quite a young population so insufficient serious cases in either test or placebo arms therefore unable to comment on severe disease.
There were 23 mild to moderate events in the placebo group, and 15 in the vaccine group. Given the median age of 30, and that everyone was healthy, unsurprisingly, we don't have any real data on prevention of serious illness.
My gut - and I'm not a doctor or a scientist - is that effectiveness builds as you scale the severity wall.
Yes, I think that likely. We do seem to think the other vaccines are less effective against it too. 60% for Novovax as I recall.
Well...... I'm not quite sure what to say about this thread header.
In more serious news I've just had a listen to the interview with Mary Ramsay on Marr. I'm confused. She didn't rule out people being able to go on holiday to Europe in the summer though there may be one or two differences to normal. But then at the end she talked about maintaining social distancing for several years?????????? Apparently we've all got used to these lower level restrictions? Which are what? Not being able to visit friends or family indoors? I for one certainly haven't got used to it.
She also seemed to be arguing that the economy was doing just fine with social distancing. Which is, er, a controversial position.
Well with 'lower level restrictions'. Which are what? Presumably not full lockdown but what exactly?
Masks on public transport and maintenance of social distancing etc. The latter of which is impossible for hospitality (including food and drink businesses) and public entertainment industries.
Well...... I'm not quite sure what to say about this thread header.
In more serious news I've just had a listen to the interview with Mary Ramsay on Marr. I'm confused. She didn't rule out people being able to go on holiday to Europe in the summer though there may be one or two differences to normal. But then at the end she talked about maintaining social distancing for several years?????????? Apparently we've all got used to these lower level restrictions? Which are what? Not being able to visit friends or family indoors? I for one certainly haven't got used to it.
At a push you could try to justify horrible masks in (some) indoor settings. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if masks stayed on public transport, or came back in the Winter. But social distancing? She's crackers. Another example, I suspect, of the kind of academic who is extremely bright intellectually but has no common sense. You obviously can't expect people to stick to nasty rules which force them only to meet their friends or family in small groups outdoors for years on end, nor can you expect the hospitality and entertainment sectors to operate at half capacity or less until the vaccines have been distributed to every remote settlement on Earth. What she's proposing sounds like it's not quite the Zero Covid lunacy in theory, but would have pretty much the same effect in practice.
This for Survation 10-17 March 2016: ie the same point in the Holyrood campaign.
SNP - 54%/42% Labour - 20%/18% Cons - 16%/18% Lib Dems - 7%/6% Green - -/10%
Have you done your census yet.
Still time
I await the hard form!
The one with the £1,000 fine
I don't think so. How can they prove I even received their brief Census leaflet? More likely someone will come with a form eventually - at which point I will complete it.
The problem is you have been discussing it today so you cannot say you were unaware, or that you could complete it online as confirmed by several posters and the way to obtain your census number
You are being deliberately obtuse and risk the fine
In fairness to Justin - and it’s not as though he and I are bosom friends - he’s not saying he won’t complete it, just that he will only complete it on paper and he doesn’t see why he should have to chase them for it.
Which isn’t radically different from my own situation on Thursday evening, where I said I was willing to fill it in but not ring them up to ask where the form was given I should not have to waste my time for their error.
It's not an error though, is it? The forms aren't being mailed out in England by default. If you want one, you have to request one.
So how come I got one?
The only explanation I can think of, unless you really did ring them up for me, is they somehow realised they hadn’t sent out the original form and it was quicker to prepare and send a full paper copy rather than a net slip.
What error are you complaining about then if you already received the form? That explanation sounds reasonable.
I’m not, although I did give them a volley in the feedback. I am saying that if it hadn’t arrived, while i’ve no objection to filling in the census (for all I wonder about its real utility) I wouldn’t have wasted my time chasing them up.
And I do, again, agree with Justin that it should have been much more readily available on paper. Perhaps an early deadline of last Sunday for online, followed by the mailing out of paper copies to any remaining addresses.
Bottom line is, the government demands this information, so they should be willing to be flexible about how people return it.
They are very flexible, giving you either option. You just have to spend less than a minute online to request a paper copy if you want one.
Indeed. If you can't go online to take the census, you can order a paper copy...online. Durrr.
A friend who doesn't have internet access couldn't find the reference to paper copies in the leaflet - the impression she got was that she'd need to visit a local census office, which would possibly break pandemic rules. I sorted it out for her but I admit it wasn't obvious at first glance - clearly the Government wanted it to be online and just added the paper option as a last resort.
You can also call them. The letter stated quite clearly if you wanted a paper form, either go online or phone.
What a shame that the idiocy of TSE's anti-monarchist dribbling in the comments has now translated into a fatuous and pointless thread header.
We were far better discussing biscuits.
I'm relaxed about it!
The Royal Family have been Head of State for 1,000 years and will still be so in 1,000 years time.
Out of interest, when would you date the start of the Royal Family's rule as Head of State?
Surely Alfred the Great would be considered the first true monarch.
Thats a misconception he was actually called alfred the grate because he had a high pitched nasal whiny voice just sucessive generations have misinterpreted grate for great....nods.
Sounds legit. I'm sold.
And there was me thinking it was an ironic nod to his baking skills
I'm trying to think how much difference there is between the vaccine number rampers and those party members you see clapping manically in communist states as the Dear Leader announces the latest tractor stats.
And there's not much really.
You have been vaccinated against a disease with a survival rate of 99 per cent plus. Many get away with mild or zero symptoms. Big deal.
Against that, you still can't go for a drink with friends, go to a political meeting, attend a protest, have a party, exercise at a gym, have a night out at a theatre, restaurant, nightclub or concert hall. Many are not even allowed to work.
Even if these 'treats' (otherwise known as human rights) return, in the longer term, foreign travel looks like a distant pipedream. Summer abroad is getting cancelled because mutant strains innit.
Package holidays to Spain will soon be looked on as the halcyon days. If you aren't under house arrest in the summer the government are going to make jolly sure you are under country arrest.
And the bill for all this is coming soon, its coming right around the corner at you, and it will make you and vast numbers much poorer.
And yet you think you are well off. Goodness.
You really are a [moderated].
You moan like a whore about lockdown but get upset about the quickest route to permanently leave lockdown.
Are you Laurence Fox?
Untold millions have been vaccinated.
We are still in lockdown. The first real tangible dose of freedom for adults is mid May. At the earliest.
What's the difference between that and the tractor stats, really?
thousands of tractors built.
Millions still hungry.
Yeah but building tractors is great.
Untold millions? The stats are actually quite precise. Unfortunately, you seem to be under the impression that you can just stop when the job is incomplete and call it good enough.
And mid-May? Isn't outdoor hospitality opening in a couple of weeks?
What is 'the job?' what is the task? its gone from three weeks to protect the NHS to vaccinating an entire population from a disease 99% plus would survive anyway.
Oh and by the way travel abroad will still be out. And you will still need to social distance. And we reserve the right to bring in new restrictions in the autumn if we feel like it. And you will probably be much poorer.
You have gained little. You have given away much. Some of it isn't coming back anytime soon.
To ensure there isn't yet another wave? That really should be obvious.
And you were saying that the "first real tangible dose of freedom for adults" was going to be mid-May. That's completely wrong, regardless of whether international travel is happening or not.
To be clear - preventing another wave of mass hospitalisations and deaths.
If we can get it down to the incidence of measles, nobody is going to be suggesting continuing with these restrictions, apart from those like Lozza Fox, Contrarian and Topping who want something to whinge about.
Except, there are plenty of scientists who want us to lockdown almost forever, just in case some variant sneaks through. Cf the woman today who said social distancing and masks should be maintained for YEARS - until the whole world is vaccinated.
YEARS?
Go jump in a lake.
We need people like contrarian et al, to fight for the restoration of our liberties (and our economies and sex lives), because otherwise the nanny state boffins will lock us up in perpetuity
Do you think "lockdown forever" is a particularly winning manifesto platform?
The scientists are - I believe - over cautious. And I suspect the UK's experience in the late Autumn and over Christmas has made the government desperate to avoid a third lockdown. (Which means they're letting lockdown two go on for longer than it might.)
I would be loosening restrictions a bit quicker. (And, indeed, California is loosening them rather more quickly than the UK at the moment - indoor dining has reopened, albeit at low capacity, and I look forward to going to an LAFC game next month.)
But the slowness of the UK isn't because of "lockdown forever", it's because they fucked up over Christmas.
I agree, but I am concerned a government petrified of a fourth wave, unduly, will cave in to the puritan scientists.
Because they exist. There are plenty of physicians who think any alcohol is bad for you, and nobody should drink, and, if they ran the government, they would probably prohibit it.
Because they are doctors. All they think about is public health, in a physical sense. That is their solitary goal. They are unable to grasp that for many, booze makes life more bearable, and joyous, and sociable, and we are willing to take the risk of alcohol's downsides to enjoy the upsides
And, of course, scientists can get this stuff very wrong. Let us never forget Jenny Harries and Jonathan Van Tam telling us NOT to wear masks as they are "actively harmful". Have they even apologised?
Well, there are people prone to overreacting. This time last year we had a guy called Eadric or SeanT or Byronic or Fitz or something like that, who thought 2 million people would die in Britain alone unless we were welded in our houses.
He then ran off to Penarth so he wouldn’t be locked in pokey flat in London if the worst happened.
But fortunately, our politicians are unlikely to be heeding such people given they can’t afford lockdown either politically or economically for longer than absolutely necessary.
Well...... I'm not quite sure what to say about this thread header.
In more serious news I've just had a listen to the interview with Mary Ramsay on Marr. I'm confused. She didn't rule out people being able to go on holiday to Europe in the summer though there may be one or two differences to normal. But then at the end she talked about maintaining social distancing for several years?????????? Apparently we've all got used to these lower level restrictions? Which are what? Not being able to visit friends or family indoors? I for one certainly haven't got used to it.
At a push you could try to justify horrible masks in (some) indoor settings. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if masks stayed on public transport, or came back in the Winter. But social distancing? She's crackers. Another example, I suspect, of the kind of academic who is extremely bright intellectually but has no common sense. You obviously can't expect people to stick to nasty rules which force them only to meet their friends or family in small groups outdoors for years on end, nor can you expect the hospitality and entertainment sectors to operate at half capacity or less until the vaccines have been distributed to every remote settlement on Earth. What she's proposing sounds like it's not quite the Zero Covid lunacy in theory, but would have pretty much the same effect in practice.
People have also been pointing out that if getting vaccinated doesn't give you freedom, then it significantly reduces the prospects of the under 30s, in particular, bothering. For most U30s, given what we know about the virus (yes, I know, long Covid...) getting the vaccine is a public spirited act, not something necessary for personal health.
And frankly, it rather undermines the whole "vaccine passport" idea, if they decide that vaccines don't prevent infection and transmission.
Well...... I'm not quite sure what to say about this thread header.
In more serious news I've just had a listen to the interview with Mary Ramsay on Marr. I'm confused. She didn't rule out people being able to go on holiday to Europe in the summer though there may be one or two differences to normal. But then at the end she talked about maintaining social distancing for several years?????????? Apparently we've all got used to these lower level restrictions? Which are what? Not being able to visit friends or family indoors? I for one certainly haven't got used to it.
At a push you could try to justify horrible masks in (some) indoor settings. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if masks stayed on public transport, or came back in the Winter. But social distancing? She's crackers. Another example, I suspect, of the kind of academic who is extremely bright intellectually but has no common sense. You obviously can't expect people to stick to nasty rules which force them only to meet their friends or family in small groups outdoors for years on end, nor can you expect the hospitality and entertainment sectors to operate at half capacity or less until the vaccines have been distributed to every remote settlement on Earth. What she's proposing sounds like it's not quite the Zero Covid lunacy in theory, but would have pretty much the same effect in practice.
I don’t think scientists are media trained like politicians,
Well...... I'm not quite sure what to say about this thread header.
In more serious news I've just had a listen to the interview with Mary Ramsay on Marr. I'm confused. She didn't rule out people being able to go on holiday to Europe in the summer though there may be one or two differences to normal. But then at the end she talked about maintaining social distancing for several years?????????? Apparently we've all got used to these lower level restrictions? Which are what? Not being able to visit friends or family indoors? I for one certainly haven't got used to it.
At a push you could try to justify horrible masks in (some) indoor settings. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if masks stayed on public transport, or came back in the Winter. But social distancing? She's crackers. Another example, I suspect, of the kind of academic who is extremely bright intellectually but has no common sense. You obviously can't expect people to stick to nasty rules which force them only to meet their friends or family in small groups outdoors for years on end, nor can you expect the hospitality and entertainment sectors to operate at half capacity or less until the vaccines have been distributed to every remote settlement on Earth. What she's proposing sounds like it's not quite the Zero Covid lunacy in theory, but would have pretty much the same effect in practice.
I don’t think scientists are media trained like politicians,
They aren't - but it begs the question as to why they have been sent all over the media in the last week (I'm assuming they aren't generally going freelance).
Well...... I'm not quite sure what to say about this thread header.
In more serious news I've just had a listen to the interview with Mary Ramsay on Marr. I'm confused. She didn't rule out people being able to go on holiday to Europe in the summer though there may be one or two differences to normal. But then at the end she talked about maintaining social distancing for several years?????????? Apparently we've all got used to these lower level restrictions? Which are what? Not being able to visit friends or family indoors? I for one certainly haven't got used to it.
At a push you could try to justify horrible masks in (some) indoor settings. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if masks stayed on public transport, or came back in the Winter. But social distancing? She's crackers. Another example, I suspect, of the kind of academic who is extremely bright intellectually but has no common sense. You obviously can't expect people to stick to nasty rules which force them only to meet their friends or family in small groups outdoors for years on end, nor can you expect the hospitality and entertainment sectors to operate at half capacity or less until the vaccines have been distributed to every remote settlement on Earth. What she's proposing sounds like it's not quite the Zero Covid lunacy in theory, but would have pretty much the same effect in practice.
I don’t think scientists are media trained like politicians,
Actually one gets quite extensive media training, or at least is offered it (and these public-facing figures must have done it). However it doesn't cover this sort of problem: speculating beyond the science or beyond one's expertise. It should.
I'm trying to think how much difference there is between the vaccine number rampers and those party members you see clapping manically in communist states as the Dear Leader announces the latest tractor stats.
And there's not much really.
You have been vaccinated against a disease with a survival rate of 99 per cent plus. Many get away with mild or zero symptoms. Big deal.
Against that, you still can't go for a drink with friends, go to a political meeting, attend a protest, have a party, exercise at a gym, have a night out at a theatre, restaurant, nightclub or concert hall. Many are not even allowed to work.
Even if these 'treats' (otherwise known as human rights) return, in the longer term, foreign travel looks like a distant pipedream. Summer abroad is getting cancelled because mutant strains innit.
Package holidays to Spain will soon be looked on as the halcyon days. If you aren't under house arrest in the summer the government are going to make jolly sure you are under country arrest.
And the bill for all this is coming soon, its coming right around the corner at you, and it will make you and vast numbers much poorer.
And yet you think you are well off. Goodness.
You've started shifting the goalposts a bit, haven't you? Almost as if you can sense that you'll look a little bit stupid when in defiance of your dire predictions of permanent lockdown Kim Jong-Boris opens up the country for the summer and everyone's having fun. Except for you.
All I'd say about that is not to count chickens. Even if we assume that the end state of this is that we are basically let out of prison except for foreign travel (which I could happily live with,) and that the Government and the sensible advisers tell the lunatic "social distancing and masks until the Plague has been driven from every last village in Afghanistan" brigade to take a running jump, then I still wouldn't place too much faith in the provisional unlocking timetable.
It'll only take SPI-M to churn out one worrying computer projection and we could all be locked up for weeks or months extra. March 29th looks baked in, but I wouldn't get excited about any of the remaining restrictions after that being binned until it actually happens.
I hear your point about not counting chickens, but unless something drastic changes we really are closing in on the end of this thing as a serious disruption of normal life. Here's Israel's R from a few days ago after doing about 2.5 times as many doses per 100 as we have now - it's dropping like a rock:
Well...... I'm not quite sure what to say about this thread header.
In more serious news I've just had a listen to the interview with Mary Ramsay on Marr. I'm confused. She didn't rule out people being able to go on holiday to Europe in the summer though there may be one or two differences to normal. But then at the end she talked about maintaining social distancing for several years?????????? Apparently we've all got used to these lower level restrictions? Which are what? Not being able to visit friends or family indoors? I for one certainly haven't got used to it.
At a push you could try to justify horrible masks in (some) indoor settings. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if masks stayed on public transport, or came back in the Winter. But social distancing? She's crackers. Another example, I suspect, of the kind of academic who is extremely bright intellectually but has no common sense. You obviously can't expect people to stick to nasty rules which force them only to meet their friends or family in small groups outdoors for years on end, nor can you expect the hospitality and entertainment sectors to operate at half capacity or less until the vaccines have been distributed to every remote settlement on Earth. What she's proposing sounds like it's not quite the Zero Covid lunacy in theory, but would have pretty much the same effect in practice.
I don’t think scientists are media trained like politicians,
Actually one gets quite extensive media training, or at least is offered it (and these public-facing figures must have done it). However it doesn't cover this sort of problem: speculating beyond the science or beyond one's expertise. It should.
--AS
I am not a scientist, but I have worked in an environment dedicated to scientific research. In general, people seem to underestimate the amount of politicking that goes on in 'science'.
If you are ever part of any organisation, there'll be politics involved.
Well...... I'm not quite sure what to say about this thread header.
In more serious news I've just had a listen to the interview with Mary Ramsay on Marr. I'm confused. She didn't rule out people being able to go on holiday to Europe in the summer though there may be one or two differences to normal. But then at the end she talked about maintaining social distancing for several years?????????? Apparently we've all got used to these lower level restrictions? Which are what? Not being able to visit friends or family indoors? I for one certainly haven't got used to it.
At a push you could try to justify horrible masks in (some) indoor settings. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if masks stayed on public transport, or came back in the Winter. But social distancing? She's crackers. Another example, I suspect, of the kind of academic who is extremely bright intellectually but has no common sense. You obviously can't expect people to stick to nasty rules which force them only to meet their friends or family in small groups outdoors for years on end, nor can you expect the hospitality and entertainment sectors to operate at half capacity or less until the vaccines have been distributed to every remote settlement on Earth. What she's proposing sounds like it's not quite the Zero Covid lunacy in theory, but would have pretty much the same effect in practice.
I don’t think scientists are media trained like politicians,
Actually one gets quite extensive media training, or at least is offered it (and these public-facing figures must have done it). However it doesn't cover this sort of problem: speculating beyond the science or beyond one's expertise. It should.
--AS
I am not a scientist, but I have worked in an environment dedicated to scientific research. In general, people seem to underestimate the amount of politicking that goes on in 'science'.
If you are ever part of any organisation, there'll be politics involved.
Oh, certainly! But what I mean is that there is specific media training for scientists, but it doesn't much talk about the ethics of not answering certain questions or getting dragged into loose comments outside of expertise.
What a shame that the idiocy of TSE's anti-monarchist dribbling in the comments has now translated into a fatuous and pointless thread header.
We were far better discussing biscuits.
I'm relaxed about it!
The Royal Family have been Head of State for 1,000 years and will still be so in 1,000 years time.
Out of interest, when would you date the start of the Royal Family's rule as Head of State?
Surely Alfred the Great would be considered the first true monarch.
That sorts the header question.
Queen Nigella.
Serious question which has always bugged me.
Alfred was the first King of the House of Cerdic.
But who was Cerdic?
First king of the West Saxons, IIRC, in the 6th century. Alfred was the first King of England (by some definitions), as the Houses of Essex, Anglia, Sussex, Northumbria, Mercia, and Kent were effectively extinct by then and he was able to claim all the Saxon territory.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
What a shame that the idiocy of TSE's anti-monarchist dribbling in the comments has now translated into a fatuous and pointless thread header.
We were far better discussing biscuits.
I'm relaxed about it!
The Royal Family have been Head of State for 1,000 years and will still be so in 1,000 years time.
Out of interest, when would you date the start of the Royal Family's rule as Head of State?
Surely Alfred the Great would be considered the first true monarch.
That sorts the header question.
Queen Nigella.
Serious question which has always bugged me.
Alfred was the first King of the House of Cerdic.
But who was Cerdic?
First king of the West Saxons, IIRC, in the 6th century. Alfred was the first King of England (by some definitions), as the Houses of Essex, Anglia, Sussex, Northumbria, Mercia, and Kent were effectively extinct by then and he was able to claim all the Saxon territory.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Are you sure? Based on more than 46 years of daily observations, I have yet to record a single incidence of my death. At some point - perhaps after just a few hundred more observations - we will be forced to conclude that I'm simply not going to die.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
SNP now not only heading for no majority but at risk of falling below its pre Brexit 2016 Holyrood vote and seat share in what would be a humiliation for Sturgeon a la May 2017 after the huge poll leads she had just a few months ago.
Latest Holyrood poll today has SNP on 46% on the constituency vote and 39% on the list compared to the 46.5% it got on the constituency vote and 41.7% it got on the list in 2016
If you get more votes than anyone else that is called winning.
If you go on for years about how Brexit is a 'material change in cicumstances' requiring independence and end up losing votes and seats compared to the last Holyrood pre Brexit election that is called humiliation.
Salmond will then be circling in the waters preparing to strike at a potentially fatally wounded Sturgeon and Boris will be cock a hoop
The seat projection from that poll puts the SNP down 2 seats on 2016, the Tories down 7. If its "humiliating" for the SNP what is it for the SCons?
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
Well, AstraZenica haven't yet seen any reason to reach for the lawsuits.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
Well, AstraZenica haven't yet seen any reason to reach for the lawsuits.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
Well, AstraZenica haven't yet seen any reason to reach for the lawsuits.
The article says Germany and France are privately supportive of this move. Allegedly. Crazy ass shit right here
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Well I'm of the opinion that they won't, they really won't want to piss off pharma and the fact pharma makes more than just Covid-19 vaccines.
But they are desperate, remember our current Home Secretary threatened Ireland's food supply in the hopes of getting a good Brexit deal, so who knows.
This is a bit beyond Patel's witless maunderings about Irish food
The EU is having an actual meeting, on Thursday, to discuss an illegal ban on the export of life-saving medicines lawfully contracted to the UK, in the full knowledge that this will do grave damage to the UK economy, and will kill UK citizens. And this move is, apparently, supported by the two largest EU members
Are you sure? Based on more than 46 years of daily observations, I have yet to record a single incidence of my death. At some point - perhaps after just a few hundred more observations - we will be forced to conclude that I'm simply not going to die.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Are you sure? Based on more than 46 years of daily observations, I have yet to record a single incidence of my death. At some point - perhaps after just a few hundred more observations - we will be forced to conclude that I'm simply not going to die.
Care for a wager?
--AS
If you need a third party to hold the money..... (highly advised!).
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Well I'm of the opinion that they won't, they really won't want to piss off pharma and the fact pharma makes more than just Covid-19 vaccines.
But they are desperate, remember our current Home Secretary threatened Ireland's food supply in the hopes of getting a good Brexit deal, so who knows.
According to MaxPB we arent getting vaccines from the eu anymore . Now maybe he is incorrect or maybe not. I he isnt not going to delay us at all
No, we aren't getting AZ. We ARE getting Pfizer (and, soon, others) from the EU. We have signed contracts, they are scheduled to go.
It would be an act of extraordinary and reckless malignity. It would make the UK and EU sworn enemies for decades
I thought the block they are proposing was only on AZN...giving the impression of doing something while doing nothing...it is I believe an eu competence
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Well I'm of the opinion that they won't, they really won't want to piss off pharma and the fact pharma makes more than just Covid-19 vaccines.
But they are desperate, remember our current Home Secretary threatened Ireland's food supply in the hopes of getting a good Brexit deal, so who knows.
According to MaxPB we arent getting vaccines from the eu anymore . Now maybe he is incorrect or maybe not. I he isnt not going to delay us at all
No, we aren't getting AZ. We ARE getting Pfizer (and, soon, others) from the EU. We have signed contracts, they are scheduled to go.
It would be an act of extraordinary and reckless malignity. It would make the UK and EU sworn enemies for decades
I thought the block they are proposing was only on AZN...giving the impression of doing something while doing nothing...it is I believe an eu competence
Yes, this is a huge step beyond the dispute with AZ. This would be a vicious, aggressive attack on the UK, directly.
Convenient of course that the suggestion of export bans would involve the EU appropriating Pfizer vaccines (which apparently their populations are (relatively) keen on) on the grounds of lack of supply of AstraZeneca (which they don't) and have rather large supplies sitting unused around various EU countries.
I'm trying to think how much difference there is between the vaccine number rampers and those party members you see clapping manically in communist states as the Dear Leader announces the latest tractor stats.
And there's not much really.
You have been vaccinated against a disease with a survival rate of 99 per cent plus. Many get away with mild or zero symptoms. Big deal.
Against that, you still can't go for a drink with friends, go to a political meeting, attend a protest, have a party, exercise at a gym, have a night out at a theatre, restaurant, nightclub or concert hall. Many are not even allowed to work.
Even if these 'treats' (otherwise known as human rights) return, in the longer term, foreign travel looks like a distant pipedream. Summer abroad is getting cancelled because mutant strains innit.
Package holidays to Spain will soon be looked on as the halcyon days. If you aren't under house arrest in the summer the government are going to make jolly sure you are under country arrest.
And the bill for all this is coming soon, its coming right around the corner at you, and it will make you and vast numbers much poorer.
And yet you think you are well off. Goodness.
You really are a [moderated].
You moan like a whore about lockdown but get upset about the quickest route to permanently leave lockdown.
Are you Laurence Fox?
Untold millions have been vaccinated.
We are still in lockdown. The first real tangible dose of freedom for adults is mid May. At the earliest.
What's the difference between that and the tractor stats, really?
thousands of tractors built.
Millions still hungry.
Yeah but building tractors is great.
Untold millions? The stats are actually quite precise. Unfortunately, you seem to be under the impression that you can just stop when the job is incomplete and call it good enough.
And mid-May? Isn't outdoor hospitality opening in a couple of weeks?
What is 'the job?' what is the task? its gone from three weeks to protect the NHS to vaccinating an entire population from a disease 99% plus would survive anyway.
Oh and by the way travel abroad will still be out. And you will still need to social distance. And we reserve the right to bring in new restrictions in the autumn if we feel like it. And you will probably be much poorer.
You have gained little. You have given away much. Some of it isn't coming back anytime soon.
To ensure there isn't yet another wave? That really should be obvious.
And you were saying that the "first real tangible dose of freedom for adults" was going to be mid-May. That's completely wrong, regardless of whether international travel is happening or not.
To be clear - preventing another wave of mass hospitalisations and deaths.
If we can get it down to the incidence of measles, nobody is going to be suggesting continuing with these restrictions, apart from those like Lozza Fox, Contrarian and Topping who want something to whinge about.
Except, there are plenty of scientists who want us to lockdown almost forever, just in case some variant sneaks through. Cf the woman today who said social distancing and masks should be maintained for YEARS - until the whole world is vaccinated.
YEARS?
Go jump in a lake.
We need people like contrarian et al, to fight for the restoration of our liberties (and our economies and sex lives), because otherwise the nanny state boffins will lock us up in perpetuity
Do you think "lockdown forever" is a particularly winning manifesto platform?
The scientists are - I believe - over cautious. And I suspect the UK's experience in the late Autumn and over Christmas has made the government desperate to avoid a third lockdown. (Which means they're letting lockdown two go on for longer than it might.)
I would be loosening restrictions a bit quicker. (And, indeed, California is loosening them rather more quickly than the UK at the moment - indoor dining has reopened, albeit at low capacity, and I look forward to going to an LAFC game next month.)
But the slowness of the UK isn't because of "lockdown forever", it's because they fucked up over Christmas.
I agree, but I am concerned a government petrified of a fourth wave, unduly, will cave in to the puritan scientists.
Because they exist. There are plenty of physicians who think any alcohol is bad for you, and nobody should drink, and, if they ran the government, they would probably prohibit it.
Because they are doctors. All they think about is public health, in a physical sense. That is their solitary goal. They are unable to grasp that for many, booze makes life more bearable, and joyous, and sociable, and we are willing to take the risk of alcohol's downsides to enjoy the upsides
And, of course, scientists can get this stuff very wrong. Let us never forget Jenny Harries and Jonathan Van Tam telling us NOT to wear masks as they are "actively harmful". Have they even apologised?
Well, there are people prone to overreacting. This time last year we had a guy called Eadric or SeanT or Byronic or Fitz or something like that, who thought 2 million people would die in Britain alone unless we were welded in our houses.
He then ran off to Penarth so he wouldn’t be locked in pokey flat in London if the worst happened.
But fortunately, our politicians are unlikely to be heeding such people given they can’t afford lockdown either politically or economically for longer than absolutely necessary.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Well I'm of the opinion that they won't, they really won't want to piss off pharma and the fact pharma makes more than just Covid-19 vaccines.
But they are desperate, remember our current Home Secretary threatened Ireland's food supply in the hopes of getting a good Brexit deal, so who knows.
According to MaxPB we arent getting vaccines from the eu anymore . Now maybe he is incorrect or maybe not. I he isnt not going to delay us at all
No, we aren't getting AZ. We ARE getting Pfizer (and, soon, others) from the EU. We have signed contracts, they are scheduled to go.
It would be an act of extraordinary and reckless malignity. It would make the UK and EU sworn enemies for decades
I thought the block they are proposing was only on AZN...giving the impression of doing something while doing nothing...it is I believe an eu competence
Yes, this is a huge step beyond the dispute with AZ. This would be a vicious, aggressive attack on the UK, directly.
Well to be fair, and to lower the temperature, it's not totally clear exactly what the EU are proposing at this meeting. The analysis is a worst case scenario for the UK, but not necessarily something that is likely to happen.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Well I'm of the opinion that they won't, they really won't want to piss off pharma and the fact pharma makes more than just Covid-19 vaccines.
But they are desperate, remember our current Home Secretary threatened Ireland's food supply in the hopes of getting a good Brexit deal, so who knows.
According to MaxPB we arent getting vaccines from the eu anymore . Now maybe he is incorrect or maybe not. I he isnt not going to delay us at all
No, we aren't getting AZ. We ARE getting Pfizer (and, soon, others) from the EU. We have signed contracts, they are scheduled to go.
It would be an act of extraordinary and reckless malignity. It would make the UK and EU sworn enemies for decades
I thought the block they are proposing was only on AZN...giving the impression of doing something while doing nothing...it is I believe an eu competence
Yes, this is a huge step beyond the dispute with AZ. This would be a vicious, aggressive attack on the UK, directly.
If they did it, I presume it would be because they assessed we’d do nothing but say we were unhappy. That’s a miscalculation. A serious miscalculation.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Well I'm of the opinion that they won't, they really won't want to piss off pharma and the fact pharma makes more than just Covid-19 vaccines.
But they are desperate, remember our current Home Secretary threatened Ireland's food supply in the hopes of getting a good Brexit deal, so who knows.
According to MaxPB we arent getting vaccines from the eu anymore . Now maybe he is incorrect or maybe not. I he isnt not going to delay us at all
No, we aren't getting AZ. We ARE getting Pfizer (and, soon, others) from the EU. We have signed contracts, they are scheduled to go.
It would be an act of extraordinary and reckless malignity. It would make the UK and EU sworn enemies for decades
I thought the block they are proposing was only on AZN...giving the impression of doing something while doing nothing...it is I believe an eu competence
Yes, this is a huge step beyond the dispute with AZ. This would be a vicious, aggressive attack on the UK, directly.
If they did it, I presume it would be because they assessed we’d do nothing but say we were unhappy. That’s a miscalculation. A serious miscalculation.
It is highly likely that it would be jeopardising 2nd doses i would think? It's not just the unvaccinated 30 year olds.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
The political pressure to retaliate would be immense.
This government has not shown itself great at resisting pressure like that
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
Genuine question - isn't it exactly what India did the other week?
Convenient of course that the suggestion of export bans would involve the EU appropriating Pfizer vaccines (which apparently their populations are (relatively) keen on) on the grounds of lack of supply of AstraZeneca (which they don't) and have rather large supplies sitting unused around various EU countries.
I thought those unused vaccines were the second doses, being held for those who've had their first dose. Not that they can't use them, but that the policy is not to do so.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Well I'm of the opinion that they won't, they really won't want to piss off pharma and the fact pharma makes more than just Covid-19 vaccines.
But they are desperate, remember our current Home Secretary threatened Ireland's food supply in the hopes of getting a good Brexit deal, so who knows.
According to MaxPB we arent getting vaccines from the eu anymore . Now maybe he is incorrect or maybe not. I he isnt not going to delay us at all
No, we aren't getting AZ. We ARE getting Pfizer (and, soon, others) from the EU. We have signed contracts, they are scheduled to go.
It would be an act of extraordinary and reckless malignity. It would make the UK and EU sworn enemies for decades
I thought the block they are proposing was only on AZN...giving the impression of doing something while doing nothing...it is I believe an eu competence
Yes, this is a huge step beyond the dispute with AZ. This would be a vicious, aggressive attack on the UK, directly.
Well to be fair, and to lower the temperature, it's not totally clear exactly what the EU are proposing at this meeting. The analysis is a worst case scenario for the UK, but not necessarily something that is likely to happen.
No, but it is now entering the realms of the possible, when it seemed entirely surreal, as an idea, just a month back
Bruno Waterfield, the Times correspondent in Brussels, speculated a week back that this REALLY could happen
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Watching the Bristol protests on Ruptly (you tube) the police seem to be keeping 2 groups apart - but if it kicked off the police would be in a spot of bother
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Well I'm of the opinion that they won't, they really won't want to piss off pharma and the fact pharma makes more than just Covid-19 vaccines.
But they are desperate, remember our current Home Secretary threatened Ireland's food supply in the hopes of getting a good Brexit deal, so who knows.
According to MaxPB we arent getting vaccines from the eu anymore . Now maybe he is incorrect or maybe not. I he isnt not going to delay us at all
No, we aren't getting AZ. We ARE getting Pfizer (and, soon, others) from the EU. We have signed contracts, they are scheduled to go.
It would be an act of extraordinary and reckless malignity. It would make the UK and EU sworn enemies for decades
I thought the block they are proposing was only on AZN...giving the impression of doing something while doing nothing...it is I believe an eu competence
Yes, this is a huge step beyond the dispute with AZ. This would be a vicious, aggressive attack on the UK, directly.
If they did it, I presume it would be because they assessed we’d do nothing but say we were unhappy. That’s a miscalculation. A serious miscalculation.
It is highly likely that it would be jeopardising 2nd doses i would think? It's not just the unvaccinated 30 year olds.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
Genuine question - isn't it exactly what India did the other week?
Not really, that was the UK government trying to be proactive and buying some new extra supplies. The EU are trying to block export that have been contractually in place for many months, far before they even got their arse in gear to sign anything.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
Genuine question - isn't it exactly what India did the other week?
Not really, that was the UK government trying to be proactive and buying some new extra supplies. The EU are trying to block export that have been contractually in place for many months, far before they even got their arse in gear to sign anything.
And hard to get worked up about India doing it, to be honest.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
Genuine question - isn't it exactly what India did the other week?
Not really, that was the UK government trying to be proactive and buying some new extra supplies. The EU are trying to block export that have been contractually in place for many months, far before they even got their arse in gear to sign anything.
In fact it’s more that India did to us what we’ve done to the EU, and instead of crying we said “fair enough”.
I'm trying to think how much difference there is between the vaccine number rampers and those party members you see clapping manically in communist states as the Dear Leader announces the latest tractor stats.
And there's not much really.
You have been vaccinated against a disease with a survival rate of 99 per cent plus. Many get away with mild or zero symptoms. Big deal.
Against that, you still can't go for a drink with friends, go to a political meeting, attend a protest, have a party, exercise at a gym, have a night out at a theatre, restaurant, nightclub or concert hall. Many are not even allowed to work.
Even if these 'treats' (otherwise known as human rights) return, in the longer term, foreign travel looks like a distant pipedream. Summer abroad is getting cancelled because mutant strains innit.
Package holidays to Spain will soon be looked on as the halcyon days. If you aren't under house arrest in the summer the government are going to make jolly sure you are under country arrest.
And the bill for all this is coming soon, its coming right around the corner at you, and it will make you and vast numbers much poorer.
And yet you think you are well off. Goodness.
You really are a [moderated].
You moan like a whore about lockdown but get upset about the quickest route to permanently leave lockdown.
Are you Laurence Fox?
Untold millions have been vaccinated.
We are still in lockdown. The first real tangible dose of freedom for adults is mid May. At the earliest.
What's the difference between that and the tractor stats, really?
thousands of tractors built.
Millions still hungry.
Yeah but building tractors is great.
Untold millions? The stats are actually quite precise. Unfortunately, you seem to be under the impression that you can just stop when the job is incomplete and call it good enough.
And mid-May? Isn't outdoor hospitality opening in a couple of weeks?
What is 'the job?' what is the task? its gone from three weeks to protect the NHS to vaccinating an entire population from a disease 99% plus would survive anyway.
Oh and by the way travel abroad will still be out. And you will still need to social distance. And we reserve the right to bring in new restrictions in the autumn if we feel like it. And you will probably be much poorer.
You have gained little. You have given away much. Some of it isn't coming back anytime soon.
To ensure there isn't yet another wave? That really should be obvious.
And you were saying that the "first real tangible dose of freedom for adults" was going to be mid-May. That's completely wrong, regardless of whether international travel is happening or not.
To be clear - preventing another wave of mass hospitalisations and deaths.
If we can get it down to the incidence of measles, nobody is going to be suggesting continuing with these restrictions, apart from those like Lozza Fox, Contrarian and Topping who want something to whinge about.
Except, there are plenty of scientists who want us to lockdown almost forever, just in case some variant sneaks through. Cf the woman today who said social distancing and masks should be maintained for YEARS - until the whole world is vaccinated.
YEARS?
Go jump in a lake.
We need people like contrarian et al, to fight for the restoration of our liberties (and our economies and sex lives), because otherwise the nanny state boffins will lock us up in perpetuity
Do you think "lockdown forever" is a particularly winning manifesto platform?
The scientists are - I believe - over cautious. And I suspect the UK's experience in the late Autumn and over Christmas has made the government desperate to avoid a third lockdown. (Which means they're letting lockdown two go on for longer than it might.)
I would be loosening restrictions a bit quicker. (And, indeed, California is loosening them rather more quickly than the UK at the moment - indoor dining has reopened, albeit at low capacity, and I look forward to going to an LAFC game next month.)
But the slowness of the UK isn't because of "lockdown forever", it's because they fucked up over Christmas.
I agree, but I am concerned a government petrified of a fourth wave, unduly, will cave in to the puritan scientists.
Because they exist. There are plenty of physicians who think any alcohol is bad for you, and nobody should drink, and, if they ran the government, they would probably prohibit it.
Because they are doctors. All they think about is public health, in a physical sense. That is their solitary goal. They are unable to grasp that for many, booze makes life more bearable, and joyous, and sociable, and we are willing to take the risk of alcohol's downsides to enjoy the upsides
And, of course, scientists can get this stuff very wrong. Let us never forget Jenny Harries and Jonathan Van Tam telling us NOT to wear masks as they are "actively harmful". Have they even apologised?
Well, there are people prone to overreacting. This time last year we had a guy called Eadric or SeanT or Byronic or Fitz or something like that, who thought 2 million people would die in Britain alone unless we were welded in our houses.
He then ran off to Penarth so he wouldn’t be locked in pokey flat in London if the worst happened.
But fortunately, our politicians are unlikely to be heeding such people given they can’t afford lockdown either politically or economically for longer than absolutely necessary.
It's a shame the current incarnation can't take a gentle stroll to Cosmeston Lakes to calm down. The nuclear option, indeed!
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
Genuine question - isn't it exactly what India did the other week?
I believe not. I think the Indian contract had clauses which allowed them to delay.
Besides, India is vast and poor, and does not have an insane government telling its people this British vaccine is shit, oh no its good, oh no its lethal, oh wait its excellent, which is why nobody wants it, and we have 10 million unused doses
Everything the EU and its member states do, when it comes to vaccines, just makes things worse.
In that light, we can fully expect them to ban exports of vax to the UK and it will be a disaster for everyone
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
This is just one of the reasons why I won't believe that we're actually moving further out of this mess until it happens.
HOWEVER - based both on media reports and on what appears to be quite a lot of informed opinion on PB, I'm not too worried yet. Export bans can, apparently, only be agreed by individual member states and not imposed by the Commission or Council of Ministers. Germany and France might be both reckless and desperate enough to push the button; the likes of Ireland, the Netherlands and (crucially) Belgium are reportedly much more reluctant. They know that if they screw up the pharma companies' ability to fulfil their contracts then said companies may no longer view the EU as a safe place to invest and build capacity. Those states therefore have a big incentive not to do anything silly.
That said, if it does go that far and the member states all fall into line, then the one thing that the UK Government must not do is force companies based here to break their contractual obligations as well, by cutting off the supply of crucial products to EU production plants. That wouldn't get us what we want and would only surrender the moral and legal high ground, whilst reducing production of vaccines for everyone else.
There are alternative responses available. The most obvious is to close the UK mission to the EU in Brussels and expel their team from London. The UK could consider withdrawing the troops currently stationed in Estonia as part of a NATO mission (in crude terms, we're not dying for you lot if you set out to kill us.) It's also possible that a quick word with the Americans and with Pfizer could see UK production of vaccine precursors diverted from the Belgian to American plants, so that UK firms' contracts with Pfizer could be upheld and UK orders fulfilled from US plants.
But we're still a long way from having to rely solely on our own (limited) production resources just yet, so let's just wait and see.
The thing about any Pfizer export bans (and why it sort of feels unlikely, and we are talking theoreticals/hypotheticals) is that Pfizer are on track with their EU delivery schedules. Even if exports were banned, the EU would therefore presumably have no contractual right to the supplies being exported. Pfizer could i guess leave them sitting in storage somewhere?
And given the complexities involved in Pfizer distribution, could the EU actually do anything with a significant increase in Pfizer supplies anyway?
If the EU spent as much time and effort sorting their vaccine rollout as they did trying to f##k up ours, they might not be in so much trouble in the first place.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
The political pressure to retaliate would be immense.
This government has not shown itself great at resisting pressure like that
The thing about any Pfizer export bans (and why it sort of feels unlikely, and we are talking theoreticals/hypotheticals) is that Pfizer are on track with their EU delivery schedules. Even if exports were banned, the EU would therefore presumably have no contractual right to the supplies being exported. Pfizer could i guess leave them sitting in storage somewhere?
And given the complexities involved in Pfizer distribution, could the EU actually do anything with a significant increase in Pfizer supplies anyway?
I would assume they just want to stop us moving further ahead (and be seen to be doing something)
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
The political pressure to retaliate would be immense.
This government has not shown itself great at resisting pressure like that
Just blockade Rotterdam.
Just block the export of the raw materials.
Yep - we have a 2 month delay - shame the EU no longer has a means of producing any more of Pfizer's vaccine.
The thing about any Pfizer export bans (and why it sort of feels unlikely, and we are talking theoreticals/hypotheticals) is that Pfizer are on track with their EU delivery schedules. Even if exports were banned, the EU would therefore presumably have no contractual right to the supplies being exported. Pfizer could i guess leave them sitting in storage somewhere?
And given the complexities involved in Pfizer distribution, could the EU actually do anything with a significant increase in Pfizer supplies anyway?
What they seem to be talking about is blocking export of *Pfizer* until the EU gets what it wants in terms of *AZN*.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
Genuine question - isn't it exactly what India did the other week?
Not really, that was the UK government trying to be proactive and buying some new extra supplies. The EU are trying to block export that have been contractually in place for many months, far before they even got their arse in gear to sign anything.
OK, thanks.
There's a poll that comes out every now and again asking people whether they think Brexit was a mistake and/or whether they'd vote to Rejoin or Leave in a referendum held now. Would be interesting to see those figures if this happens. To be honest, it would be interesting to see those figures now.
The thing about any Pfizer export bans (and why it sort of feels unlikely, and we are talking theoreticals/hypotheticals) is that Pfizer are on track with their EU delivery schedules. Even if exports were banned, the EU would therefore presumably have no contractual right to the supplies being exported. Pfizer could i guess leave them sitting in storage somewhere?
And given the complexities involved in Pfizer distribution, could the EU actually do anything with a significant increase in Pfizer supplies anyway?
What they seem to be talking about is blocking export of *Pfizer* until the EU gets what it wants in terms of *AZN*.
Are they actually talking about that - or is this UK press speculation on the hypothetical damage they can do. They also seem to be grossly overestimating the potential supply of AZ to the EU from the UK, even if they got the lot? Which of course runs into the point about a delay of 2 months in the UK being a speeding up of a week in the EU.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
The political pressure to retaliate would be immense.
This government has not shown itself great at resisting pressure like that
Just blockade Rotterdam.
Just block the export of the raw materials.
Yep - we have a 2 month delay - shame the EU no longer has a means of producing any more of Pfizer's vaccine.
Of course we can't be seen targeting the EU directly. We just have to come up with some criteria for the ban such that it only applies to them.
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
The political pressure to retaliate would be immense.
This government has not shown itself great at resisting pressure like that
Just blockade Rotterdam.
Just block the export of the raw materials.
Yep - we have a 2 month delay - shame the EU no longer has a means of producing any more of Pfizer's vaccine.
Of course we can't be seen targeting the EU directly. We just have to come up with some criteria for the ban such that it only applies to them.
France has failed to honour the Treaty of Troyes and since the EU won't do anything about it....
If the EU spent as much time and effort sorting their vaccine rollout as they did trying to f##k up ours, they might not be in so much trouble in the first place.
I had a friend who cheated at all his exams, from GCSE on. Stealing papers etc. By the end - law school - his cheating was so brilliantly elaborate - eg sewing tiny computer screens, fed with data, into his pants (no kidding) - it took him months of fiendish planning.
If he'd spent half the time actually reading law he'd have passed easily, in the end his final cheat failed, and he flunked
The EU is a bit like that.
But always remember, kids, it's a RULES BASED ORGANISATION
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
The political pressure to retaliate would be immense.
This government has not shown itself great at resisting pressure like that
Just blockade Rotterdam.
Just block the export of the raw materials.
Yep - we have a 2 month delay - shame the EU no longer has a means of producing any more of Pfizer's vaccine.
Of course we can't be seen targeting the EU directly. We just have to come up with some criteria for the ban such that it only applies to them.
France has failed to honour the Treaty of Troyes and since the EU won't do anything about it....
Britain’s Covid vaccine programme faces a two-month delay in the event of an EU export ban, derailing the government’s plans to reopen the economy this summer, an analysis for the Guardian reveals.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
They would further fuck up our economy, and condemn lots of Britons to disease and death, because THEY screwed up their procurement? It would be the act of an outright enemy. Beyond anything China might do, or indeed Russia.
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
The political pressure to retaliate would be immense.
This government has not shown itself great at resisting pressure like that
Just blockade Rotterdam.
Just block the export of the raw materials.
Yep - we have a 2 month delay - shame the EU no longer has a means of producing any more of Pfizer's vaccine.
Is this vote subject to QMV or unanimity? There’s lots we could threaten in the face of a such a hostile action. Recall our troops from the EU’s eastern flank for one.
Will the last Remainer in the room switch off the lights...
If the EU spent as much time and effort sorting their vaccine rollout as they did trying to f##k up ours, they might not be in so much trouble in the first place.
I had a friend who cheated at all his exams, from GCSE on. Stealing papers etc. By the end - law school - his cheating was so brilliantly elaborate - eg sewing tiny computer screens, fed with data, into his pants (no kidding) - it took him months of fiendish planning.
If he'd spent half the time actually reading law he'd have passed easily, in the end his final cheat failed, and he flunked
The EU is a bit like that.
But always remember, kids, it's a RULES BASED ORGANISATION
Tiny computer screens in his trousers? You are having a laugh, surely?
Does anyone actually know the respective figures of AZ supply to the EU to date, and the AZ supply to the UK? Not per capita or anything like that. Just raw numbers.
Comments
https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1346846639160365056
Places like Japan. Because before we contemplate any sort of future lockdown measures, we need to rule out why they weren't required there. Does it really all come down to banning international travel?
I am also mildly intrigued by South Korea - they appear to have been registering something like 4-600 cases a day, and up to around 10 deaths a day for weeks. I know their testing regime is supposed to be brilliant, but can it really be that effective in keeping levels at permanently low (but not non-existent) levels?
A friend who doesn't have internet access couldn't find the reference to paper copies in the leaflet - the impression she got was that she'd need to visit a local census office, which would possibly break pandemic rules. I sorted it out for her but I admit it wasn't obvious at first glance - clearly the Government wanted it to be online and just added the paper option as a last resort.
Because they exist. There are plenty of physicians who think any alcohol is bad for you, and nobody should drink, and, if they ran the government, they would probably prohibit it.
Because they are doctors. All they think about is public health, in a physical sense. That is their solitary goal. They are unable to grasp that for many, booze makes life more bearable, and joyous, and sociable, and we are willing to take the risk of alcohol's downsides to enjoy the upsides
And, of course, scientists can get this stuff very wrong. Let us never forget Jenny Harries and Jonathan Van Tam telling us NOT to wear masks as they are "actively harmful". Have they even apologised?
Edit: you're right. It's fake. Very clever, Just the right amount of believability
He photoshopped this
https://twitter.com/Valdevia_Art/status/1373679213174259727?s=20
Imagine how GPT3 is going to terrify us when it gets a grasp on images
Surely fake though..
--AS
https://twitter.com/Valdevia_Art/status/1373679213174259727?s=19
He then ran off to Penarth so he wouldn’t be locked in pokey flat in London if the worst happened.
But fortunately, our politicians are unlikely to be heeding such people given they can’t afford lockdown either politically or economically for longer than absolutely necessary.
That sorts the header question.
Queen Nigella.
And frankly, it rather undermines the whole "vaccine passport" idea, if they decide that vaccines don't prevent infection and transmission.
--AS
Alfred was the first King of the House of Cerdic.
But who was Cerdic?
Queen Nigella.
Serious question which has always bugged me.
Alfred was the first King of the House of Cerdic.
But who was Cerdic?
If you are ever part of any organisation, there'll be politics involved.
--AS
Alfred was the first King of the House of Cerdic.
But who was Cerdic?
First king of the West Saxons, IIRC, in the 6th century.
Alfred was the first King of England (by some definitions), as the Houses of Essex, Anglia, Sussex, Northumbria, Mercia, and Kent were effectively extinct by then and he was able to claim all the Saxon territory.
A ban, due to be debated by leaders of the 27 EU member states on Thursday, would badly stall the UK vaccination effort, and would be likely to force the government to extend restrictions on people’s lives.
It would not, however, provide a significant boost to EU member states’ troubled programmes, according to a report by the data analytics company Airfinity.
The comparatively small number of doses that would be kept within the bloc would speed up the full vaccination of every adult in the EU by “just over a week”, the research suggests.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/21/eu-export-ban-would-delay-uk-covid-vaccine-drive-by-two-months
Fernandes
Rashford
Shaw
McTominey
and 1-1 (somewhat fortuitously) at half time.
Got to be nailed on, doesn't it?
Alfred was the first King of England (by some definitions), as the Houses of Essex, Anglia, Sussex, Northumbria, Mercia, and Kent were effectively extinct by then and he was able to claim all the Saxon territory.
Thx
But they are desperate, remember our current Home Secretary threatened Ireland's food supply in the hopes of getting a good Brexit deal, so who knows.
If its "humiliating" for the SNP what is it for the SCons?
It is a nuclear option. How could we not retaliate? Madness
For cricket fans, the 1981 Ashes series is now available to watch on YouTube. I've set up a playlist.
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6oCQqv2KW6UQW9mq12xkgj2qxOk1ykcw
The EU is having an actual meeting, on Thursday, to discuss an illegal ban on the export of life-saving medicines lawfully contracted to the UK, in the full knowledge that this will do grave damage to the UK economy, and will kill UK citizens. And this move is, apparently, supported by the two largest EU members
--AS
It would be an act of extraordinary and reckless malignity. It would make the UK and EU sworn enemies for decades
This government has not shown itself great at resisting pressure like that
Bruno Waterfield, the Times correspondent in Brussels, speculated a week back that this REALLY could happen
It would be a short term win for the EU but a medium to long term disaster for them.
Pharma would flee the EU like I would from an ex with the clap eating pizza with pineapple on it.
Besides, India is vast and poor, and does not have an insane government telling its people this British vaccine is shit, oh no its good, oh no its lethal, oh wait its excellent, which is why nobody wants it, and we have 10 million unused doses
Everything the EU and its member states do, when it comes to vaccines, just makes things worse.
In that light, we can fully expect them to ban exports of vax to the UK and it will be a disaster for everyone
HOWEVER - based both on media reports and on what appears to be quite a lot of informed opinion on PB, I'm not too worried yet. Export bans can, apparently, only be agreed by individual member states and not imposed by the Commission or Council of Ministers. Germany and France might be both reckless and desperate enough to push the button; the likes of Ireland, the Netherlands and (crucially) Belgium are reportedly much more reluctant. They know that if they screw up the pharma companies' ability to fulfil their contracts then said companies may no longer view the EU as a safe place to invest and build capacity. Those states therefore have a big incentive not to do anything silly.
That said, if it does go that far and the member states all fall into line, then the one thing that the UK Government must not do is force companies based here to break their contractual obligations as well, by cutting off the supply of crucial products to EU production plants. That wouldn't get us what we want and would only surrender the moral and legal high ground, whilst reducing production of vaccines for everyone else.
There are alternative responses available. The most obvious is to close the UK mission to the EU in Brussels and expel their team from London. The UK could consider withdrawing the troops currently stationed in Estonia as part of a NATO mission (in crude terms, we're not dying for you lot if you set out to kill us.) It's also possible that a quick word with the Americans and with Pfizer could see UK production of vaccine precursors diverted from the Belgian to American plants, so that UK firms' contracts with Pfizer could be upheld and UK orders fulfilled from US plants.
But we're still a long way from having to rely solely on our own (limited) production resources just yet, so let's just wait and see.
And given the complexities involved in Pfizer distribution, could the EU actually do anything with a significant increase in Pfizer supplies anyway?
Yep - we have a 2 month delay - shame the EU no longer has a means of producing any more of Pfizer's vaccine.
There's a poll that comes out every now and again asking people whether they think Brexit was a mistake and/or whether they'd vote to Rejoin or Leave in a referendum held now. Would be interesting to see those figures if this happens. To be honest, it would be interesting to see those figures now.
If he'd spent half the time actually reading law he'd have passed easily, in the end his final cheat failed, and he flunked
The EU is a bit like that.
But always remember, kids, it's a RULES BASED ORGANISATION
Will the last Remainer in the room switch off the lights...