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Rishi still favourite to be next PM though not as strong a one as he was – politicalbetting.com

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  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,587
    I still haven't decided how to fill in the religion section of the census. Same problem as last time. What do you do if you're not particularly religious but don't want to tick the atheist box?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380

    Well well well.

    Priti Patel wanted police to stop people gathering at Sarah Everard vigil

    Exclusive: some police chiefs feel ‘hung out to dry’ as memo reveals home secretary’s enforcement call

    For a few hours at least last Sunday, the Metropolitan police and their embattled commissioner appeared on the brink. Assailed from all sides over their handling of the Sarah Everard vigil on Clapham Common, there seemed every chance Dame Cressida Dick would have to quit the force she has been in charge of since 2017.

    Instead she survived, as the Home Office and then Downing Street eventually signalled they retained confidence in her, despite the disturbing scenes of her officers manhandling women.

    But the support she received from the home secretary, Priti Patel, raised questions about what role, if any, Patel played behind the scenes before the vigil on Saturday evening. A memo leaked to the Guardian offers some clues.

    On Friday as the police and the vigil’s organisers were heading to court over the legality of such an event, a message was sent to all police chiefs making Patel’s position clear. She wanted them to stop people gathering at vigils. She also promised she would personally urge people not to gather – but she never did.

    Though the police are operationally independent, the home secretary had made her views clear, which made her criticisms of the way officers broke up the Clapham event particularly galling, according to some police chiefs who spoke to the Guardian.

    As a result, some chiefs feel policing was “hung out to dry” when Patel criticised pictures of officers manhandling women at the vigil, rebuked the Met commissioner and ordered an inquiry.

    One chief constable said the message from Patel and the government before the vigil had been clear, that a ban on gatherings had to be enforced.

    Tensions are now running high between police and ministers.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/19/priti-patel-wanted-police-stop-people-gathering-sarah-everard-vigil?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Paging BigG. How does Priti survive this revelation?

    Answer, because Johnsonian Ministers are not obliged to resign...ever.
    I'm no fan of Priti Patel, but I really don't see what she is being criticised for here (except for being a Conservative, and especially a non-white Conservative woman obv, this being the Guardian). What on earth is the contradiction between confirming that the police should enforce the (very clear) law, and objecting to the clumsy and insensitive way in which they did so?
    My point wasn't supposed to be a direct criticism of Ms. Patel. For what it's worth, under the circumstances she made a judgement call, which could be justified or criticised from whichever side of the fence one sits.

    My post was really in reference to some of the very exciteable, predominantly Johnson supporting posters who were demanding Cressida Dick and Khan's heads on the night of the arrests.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    edited March 2021

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    You better not come to my home during The Ashes or World Cup then.

    Maybe over half the country are rational and not hate-filled closed-minded bigots like yourself.
    The World Cup is a complete distraction from the point at hand. As I said to @RH1992, I virtually live in an Ingerland shirt during the WC. Should have seen me when that penalty went in to win that shootout last time in Moscow. I was a maniac. Totally lost it. Love football, love my country.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Well well well.

    Priti Patel wanted police to stop people gathering at Sarah Everard vigil

    Exclusive: some police chiefs feel ‘hung out to dry’ as memo reveals home secretary’s enforcement call

    For a few hours at least last Sunday, the Metropolitan police and their embattled commissioner appeared on the brink. Assailed from all sides over their handling of the Sarah Everard vigil on Clapham Common, there seemed every chance Dame Cressida Dick would have to quit the force she has been in charge of since 2017.

    Instead she survived, as the Home Office and then Downing Street eventually signalled they retained confidence in her, despite the disturbing scenes of her officers manhandling women.

    But the support she received from the home secretary, Priti Patel, raised questions about what role, if any, Patel played behind the scenes before the vigil on Saturday evening. A memo leaked to the Guardian offers some clues.

    On Friday as the police and the vigil’s organisers were heading to court over the legality of such an event, a message was sent to all police chiefs making Patel’s position clear. She wanted them to stop people gathering at vigils. She also promised she would personally urge people not to gather – but she never did.

    Though the police are operationally independent, the home secretary had made her views clear, which made her criticisms of the way officers broke up the Clapham event particularly galling, according to some police chiefs who spoke to the Guardian.

    As a result, some chiefs feel policing was “hung out to dry” when Patel criticised pictures of officers manhandling women at the vigil, rebuked the Met commissioner and ordered an inquiry.

    One chief constable said the message from Patel and the government before the vigil had been clear, that a ban on gatherings had to be enforced.

    Tensions are now running high between police and ministers.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/19/priti-patel-wanted-police-stop-people-gathering-sarah-everard-vigil?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Paging BigG. How does Priti survive this revelation?

    Answer, because Johnsonian Ministers are not obliged to resign...ever.
    I'm no fan of Priti Patel, but I really don't see what she is being criticised for here (except for being a Conservative, and especially a non-white Conservative woman obv, this being the Guardian). What on earth is the contradiction between confirming that the police should enforce the (very clear) law, and objecting to the clumsy and insensitive way in which they did so?
    My point wasn't supposed to be a direct criticism of Ms. Patel. For what it's worth, under the circumstances she made a judgement call, which could be justified or criticised from whichever side of the fence one sits.

    My post was really in reference to some of the very exciteable, predominantly Johnson supporting posters who were demanding Cressida Dick and Khan's heads on the night of the arrests.
    Ah, get you. Yes, fair point!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    I just went for a cone-beam scan at a private clinic.

    I was asked (new thing, they said, come in this month) whether there was any possibility I was pregnant - they told me they now have to ask - and whether I had any preferred pronouns.

    I said absolutely not and I couldn't care less what people call me. I didn't want to grace the question with a response so left it blank on the consent form and ignored it.

    She was clearly embarrassed to ask, and said it was a sign of the times. I said hopefully the madness will end one day, and then we both laughed.

    If I'm ever asked for my preferred pronouns, I'm going find myself in quite the pickle. Should I go with iste, ista, istud, the idiomatic form for directing a prosecuting orator's scorn at a defendant, or ὅδε, ἥδε, τόδε, the proximal deictic announcing the arrival of a new character on the tragic stage? It's going to be tough to decide.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,996
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    A devastating report from Compass exposes the near-impossibility of Labour winning alone at the next election. We divide, they conquer, by Grace Barnett and Neal Lawson, shows Labour now needs at least a 10.52% swing, greater than in 1945 and 1997.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/18/labour-electoral-system-priti-patel-mayoral-elections

    I see that report is repeating tired old canards about progressive alliances and changing the voting system.

    When is Labour going to actually engage with the electorate as it is to, you know, win votes?
    I will get round to finishing the header I'm working on, but Hartlepool will likely add to Labour's woes on just how and where to fight the next election. Essentially, if you say the Tories and Labour are each going to put resources into 100 seats, the Tories can put that into 80 on defence and 20 on offence. Labour has to put it into 100 on attack - and even then, they have to leapfrog some of their low-hanging fruit and go for medium-difficult targets. And unless fortunes change dramatically for the SNP, it won't be in Scotland.

    Labour has to hope that the political tide goes so far in their favour that it swamps the Tory defences.

    Or accept that they will not win power in less than 2 attempts.
    Hartlepool coming into play is absolutely fascinating but it's unlikely to damage Labour. The balance of risk is the other way. It's Brexit Central, stuffed full of white working class patriots, each and every one of them imbued with love of country and good old-fashioned commonsense, and the timing could not be better for the government. Brexit is done and looking inspired due to the EU vaccine shambles. By contrast our own vaccine efforts are paying off in spades, motoring us out of lockdown before other countries, liberties taken about to be restored. If the Tories, the party of hard leave, can't win in Hartlepool, the capital of hard leave, at this time, in these circumstances, it will be telling us the tide is turning and opposition beckons before too long. They need to win it (and convincingly) to retain control of the narrative. By this analysis, which imo is the right one, the pressure is all on them. It's something of a free hit for Labour.
    Nice try. But an opposition party losing a seat to the governing party is still rarer than rocking-horse shit.

    But if another dozen Red Wall Labour MPs would like to resign to give Labour some "free hits" - they know where the Chiltern Hundreds are....
    Sure, but this is a very particular scenario and the result has potentially huge ramifications for where our domestic politics is heading.

    If Labour win here, the most Brexity of seats, so soon after Brexit and with it looking to the untrained eye to be a great decision, it will mean Europe is losing its salience as an issue driving votes and that by the time of the next GE it will barely feature. Plus Corbyn has gone, remember, and will be a distant memory by then. Labour now has a leader that, dull or not, most people can envisage as PM. This hasn't happened since 2010.

    It will leave just one of the 3 key factors from the "BBC" election of Dec 19 still in play. "Boris". Can he carry that load? Can this political magician do it again, even after 5 years in power and with the economy in the toilet? I yield to no-one in my recognition of his powers, the guy's a vote magnet in the places that count, but I'm not so sure he can.

    So that's the big story. A Labour win. If the Cons take it, it's a shrug and business as usual.
    Total bollocks. If Starmer can’t win back a northern, traditionally Labour seat like Hartlepool, after seven zillion years of Tory government, then his leadership is in trouble. Simply the case. People won’t just ‘shrug’.

    Yes there are complicating factors that make it somewhat harder. But, he should still win it

    FWIW I think Labour will succeed
    This is the traditional analysis but it's no longer applicable in the new politics forged by the 2016 EU Referendum and its aftermath. If the Tories can't win here, a triumphant Brexit just pocketed, they are losing their grip on what won them their GE majority - their consolidation and ownership of the Leave political identity, transcending class. Which means big trouble for them, since they offer little else except the "Boris" act. If Labour win this seat in May, Starmer will not quite be measuring up the curtains for number 10, but he will be immensely heartened, trust me.
    Lol. Holding one of their own seats 11 years into Opposition that even Corbyn managed not to lose would be 'immensely heartening'? How Labour's ambitions have been etiolated by defeat - I remember when they used to be a national party. Now they're barely a regional one...
    I've explained why I'm viewing it the way I am. We have a new politics now. The Cons have merged with Leave and they need to retain ownership of it. If they don't it's hard to see where they go. What are the Cons without Leave? That's a rhetorical question because I know you can't answer it. Nobody can. They'll still be "Boris", yes, but that's no basis for the future. Imagine having your fortunes dependent on him. Talk about precarious. No, tough times ahead for the party, methinks, if they lose their Leave USP. Like the GOP without MAGA, they'll be faced with a long and arduous rebuilding process from the bottom up.
    Actually, I'd say atm that the Cons are the only UK party of genuine optimism. SNP, maybe, but in a very dour way. Optimism and hope are good for political parties, at least until self-belief in the vision is lost.
    That comes from the 2 Bs in the BBC election. "Boris" has a 'sunny side up' persona but that's all that is - a persona. And then Brexit. For Remainers, it's damage limitation. Only true beLeavers see a great future coming from it. By the next GE, both of these Bs could be losing lustre. I think they will be. There's a fine line between optimism and simple-minded delusion.
    I think it is truly sad for you if you believe your last sentence without any form of qualification. Human life is only bearable with hope and optimism. They can be sustaining in truly dark times, when all others believe the optimists to be delusional. Who best survived Auschwitz - the optimists or the pessimists?
    Not sure how you'd measure the last point. A case could be made for either, eg a cruelly disappointed optimist may fade faster than a sardonic pessimist who'd expected the worst to happen all along.

    I'd imagine luck, one's physical genetic inheritance and a certain selfishness when it came to feeding oneself might have had more to do with it.
    I believe Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's research largely came from pondering this question.
    I'll have to give you that as I don't know who they are, but Levi has tended to be my guide on this.

    ‘The worst survived, that is, the fittest; the best all died.’

    ‘I insist there was no general rule, except entering the camp in good health and knowing German. Barring this, luck dominated.’

    Of course a case could be made for Levi being an optimist, except the optimism ran out by the time of his likely suicide.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822

    I just went for a cone-beam scan at a private clinic.

    I was asked (new thing, they said, come in this month) whether there was any possibility I was pregnant - they told me they now have to ask - and whether I had any preferred pronouns.

    I said absolutely not and I couldn't care less what people call me. I didn't want to grace the question with a response so left it blank on the consent form and ignored it.

    She was clearly embarrassed to ask, and said it was a sign of the times. I said hopefully the madness will end one day, and then we both laughed.

    I went through the samething when I went for a vasectomy a few years back. Also asked my sexuality. Presumably there isn't much call for vasectomies for gay men or transexuals?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    And that is why your political analysis is just so much GIGO!
    Poor comment, this, Felix. Wouldn't have seen the light of day in a perfect world.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    Britain has almost stopped giving out the Pfizer Covid vaccine to new patients so it can save supplies for second doses, official data suggests.

    The NHS appears to now be rationing the jab, which was used to kick off the rollout in December, and only used it for one in 10 new patients in the first week of March.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9376919/Coronavirus-UK-Britain-starts-ration-Pfizers-Covid-vaccine-ahead-supply-dip.html
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,207

    I just went for a cone-beam scan at a private clinic.

    I was asked (new thing, they said, come in this month) whether there was any possibility I was pregnant - they told me they now have to ask - and whether I had any preferred pronouns.

    I said absolutely not and I couldn't care less what people call me. I didn't want to grace the question with a response so left it blank on the consent form and ignored it.

    She was clearly embarrassed to ask, and said it was a sign of the times. I said hopefully the madness will end one day, and then we both laughed.

    You should do what I do, and be an equal opportunities idiot. I refer to everyone as "it".
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,238

    algarkirk said:

    Well well well.

    Priti Patel wanted police to stop people gathering at Sarah Everard vigil

    Exclusive: some police chiefs feel ‘hung out to dry’ as memo reveals home secretary’s enforcement call

    For a few hours at least last Sunday, the Metropolitan police and their embattled commissioner appeared on the brink. Assailed from all sides over their handling of the Sarah Everard vigil on Clapham Common, there seemed every chance Dame Cressida Dick would have to quit the force she has been in charge of since 2017.

    Instead she survived, as the Home Office and then Downing Street eventually signalled they retained confidence in her, despite the disturbing scenes of her officers manhandling women.

    But the support she received from the home secretary, Priti Patel, raised questions about what role, if any, Patel played behind the scenes before the vigil on Saturday evening. A memo leaked to the Guardian offers some clues.

    On Friday as the police and the vigil’s organisers were heading to court over the legality of such an event, a message was sent to all police chiefs making Patel’s position clear. She wanted them to stop people gathering at vigils. She also promised she would personally urge people not to gather – but she never did.

    Though the police are operationally independent, the home secretary had made her views clear, which made her criticisms of the way officers broke up the Clapham event particularly galling, according to some police chiefs who spoke to the Guardian.

    As a result, some chiefs feel policing was “hung out to dry” when Patel criticised pictures of officers manhandling women at the vigil, rebuked the Met commissioner and ordered an inquiry.

    One chief constable said the message from Patel and the government before the vigil had been clear, that a ban on gatherings had to be enforced.

    Tensions are now running high between police and ministers.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/19/priti-patel-wanted-police-stop-people-gathering-sarah-everard-vigil?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Paging BigG. How does Priti survive this revelation?

    Answer, because Johnsonian Ministers are not obliged to resign...ever.
    And because the underestimated opinion of many ordinary people is that in the Covid crisis the campaigners should never have acted in this way, placing the police in an impossible position. When people with a cause do that to the police it is rarely because they want them affirmed. Ordinary provincial opinion (about which the left has a tin ear, and Boris has a sure touch) is pro police and anti public demonstration in almost every case. Even this one. And they will have noticed that the victim's family and friends have not lent the cause their vocal support.

    Which means nothing. They are probably far too close to the event to want to be involved in such controversy.

    Besides the Patel issue is not about whether the demonstration should or should not have gone ahead. It is about her being a two faced f*ckwit who encouraged the police to take a particular line and then left them to take the heat - and actually joined in the criticism - when opinion seemed to be swinging against them. The issue is not so much she is an extreme authoritarian - although that makes her beyond the pale in my view - it is that she is a dishonest coward.
    So that's what BoJo sees in her.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    eek said:
    They will then, of course, lose the election, and Scottish politics will go on exactly as it did before recent controversies blew up. Four more years of nationalists complaining about how hard done by they are and continuous demands for independence.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,750
    Cookie said:

    I just went for a cone-beam scan at a private clinic.

    I was asked (new thing, they said, come in this month) whether there was any possibility I was pregnant - they told me they now have to ask - and whether I had any preferred pronouns.

    I said absolutely not and I couldn't care less what people call me. I didn't want to grace the question with a response so left it blank on the consent form and ignored it.

    She was clearly embarrassed to ask, and said it was a sign of the times. I said hopefully the madness will end one day, and then we both laughed.

    I went through the samething when I went for a vasectomy a few years back. Also asked my sexuality. Presumably there isn't much call for vasectomies for gay men or transexuals?
    Hopefully they would have gently pointed out to you the lack of utility of the procedure had you told them you were gay or transsexual!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Fun with flags time, kids.

    What is this one behind Mr Grimes?

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1372854107585839110

    It's the 'Canzuk' shield but the red stars of the NZ Southern Cross appear to have been slightly bleached by DG's tears.
    A sneaky nod to White Power? Or less viscerally, the "chaps we can trust"?
    The percentage of non-white people will almost certainly be higher in Australia, NZ, UK and Canada compared to the EU. In NZ 17% of the population are Maori for example.
    Yes, Andy. I thank you kindly.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Britain has almost stopped giving out the Pfizer Covid vaccine to new patients so it can save supplies for second doses, official data suggests.

    The NHS appears to now be rationing the jab, which was used to kick off the rollout in December, and only used it for one in 10 new patients in the first week of March.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9376919/Coronavirus-UK-Britain-starts-ration-Pfizers-Covid-vaccine-ahead-supply-dip.html

    That's inevitable. The supply comes from abroad and therefore cannot be relied upon. They have to assume that it could be cut off at any moment.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited March 2021
    Jesus. That's not a great look, tho, is it? Taken alongside the odd interviews.

    Can America cope with ANOTHER president crumbling in front of their eyes? Will they learn to elect younger men and women, instead?


    I feel terribly sorry for Biden, of course, if he is in steep decline: and it does look like he might be

    The other angle is even worse. Sad. I hope I'm wrong

    https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1372938131339628544?s=20
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Chameleon said:
    Half the top 20 have been supplied by the UK vaccine task force.
    The list is chock full of UK crown dependencies and overseas territories, including the new leaders, Gibraltar.

    Strip out all the microstates, of course, and a more familiar pattern exerts itself - except that Chile is now past both the US and the UK on this metric. What both Chile and Serbia have successfully managed to do is extract large quantities of vaccines out of China; Chile has then done an heroic job of getting them distributed, substantially quicker than the NHS. Logically you'd think that Israel will still be the first country of any size to get its whole adult population inoculated twice, but Chile looks good for second place.
    One of the issues Serbia is facing is that it got the shit Chinese vaccine that only showed under 50% efficacy against infection after both doses. The Chinese are unloading these at scale to unsuspecting smaller nations locked out of direct supply deals with AZ or Pfizer the only two other companies manufacturing at any kind of scale.

    It's really awful and now Serbia has gone back into lockdown becuase those Chinese vaccines weren't good enough despite the really decent vaccine programme.
    I thought SputnikV was now delivering large amounts? Not true?
    Not massive. Pfizer and AZ are being made in the hundreds of millions per month now but all of those doses are already purchased by the UK/US/EU or GAVI/COVAX.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    algarkirk said:

    Well well well.

    Priti Patel wanted police to stop people gathering at Sarah Everard vigil

    Exclusive: some police chiefs feel ‘hung out to dry’ as memo reveals home secretary’s enforcement call

    For a few hours at least last Sunday, the Metropolitan police and their embattled commissioner appeared on the brink. Assailed from all sides over their handling of the Sarah Everard vigil on Clapham Common, there seemed every chance Dame Cressida Dick would have to quit the force she has been in charge of since 2017.

    Instead she survived, as the Home Office and then Downing Street eventually signalled they retained confidence in her, despite the disturbing scenes of her officers manhandling women.

    But the support she received from the home secretary, Priti Patel, raised questions about what role, if any, Patel played behind the scenes before the vigil on Saturday evening. A memo leaked to the Guardian offers some clues.

    On Friday as the police and the vigil’s organisers were heading to court over the legality of such an event, a message was sent to all police chiefs making Patel’s position clear. She wanted them to stop people gathering at vigils. She also promised she would personally urge people not to gather – but she never did.

    Though the police are operationally independent, the home secretary had made her views clear, which made her criticisms of the way officers broke up the Clapham event particularly galling, according to some police chiefs who spoke to the Guardian.

    As a result, some chiefs feel policing was “hung out to dry” when Patel criticised pictures of officers manhandling women at the vigil, rebuked the Met commissioner and ordered an inquiry.

    One chief constable said the message from Patel and the government before the vigil had been clear, that a ban on gatherings had to be enforced.

    Tensions are now running high between police and ministers.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/19/priti-patel-wanted-police-stop-people-gathering-sarah-everard-vigil?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Paging BigG. How does Priti survive this revelation?

    Answer, because Johnsonian Ministers are not obliged to resign...ever.
    And because the underestimated opinion of many ordinary people is that in the Covid crisis the campaigners should never have acted in this way, placing the police in an impossible position. When people with a cause do that to the police it is rarely because they want them affirmed. Ordinary provincial opinion (about which the left has a tin ear, and Boris has a sure touch) is pro police and anti public demonstration in almost every case. Even this one. And they will have noticed that the victim's family and friends have not lent the cause their vocal support.

    Perhaps those condemning my tongue-in-cheek post should avail themselves of the anti-police hysteria that was posted on here by Johnsonian Conservative posters. I would like to add that unusually, for a centrist b*****d I was very supportive of the Police, unlike the Johnson cheerleaders.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    Cornwall has replaced London as the most searched-for place to live on the property website Rightmove, as the coronavirus pandemic sparks a new era of flexible working and lifestyle changes that have fuelled a surge of interest in relocating to rural locations.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/19/cornwall-overtakes-london-as-most-searched-location-for-uk-movers
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,234

    Well well well.

    Priti Patel wanted police to stop people gathering at Sarah Everard vigil

    Exclusive: some police chiefs feel ‘hung out to dry’ as memo reveals home secretary’s enforcement call

    For a few hours at least last Sunday, the Metropolitan police and their embattled commissioner appeared on the brink. Assailed from all sides over their handling of the Sarah Everard vigil on Clapham Common, there seemed every chance Dame Cressida Dick would have to quit the force she has been in charge of since 2017.

    Instead she survived, as the Home Office and then Downing Street eventually signalled they retained confidence in her, despite the disturbing scenes of her officers manhandling women.

    But the support she received from the home secretary, Priti Patel, raised questions about what role, if any, Patel played behind the scenes before the vigil on Saturday evening. A memo leaked to the Guardian offers some clues.

    On Friday as the police and the vigil’s organisers were heading to court over the legality of such an event, a message was sent to all police chiefs making Patel’s position clear. She wanted them to stop people gathering at vigils. She also promised she would personally urge people not to gather – but she never did.

    Though the police are operationally independent, the home secretary had made her views clear, which made her criticisms of the way officers broke up the Clapham event particularly galling, according to some police chiefs who spoke to the Guardian.

    As a result, some chiefs feel policing was “hung out to dry” when Patel criticised pictures of officers manhandling women at the vigil, rebuked the Met commissioner and ordered an inquiry.

    One chief constable said the message from Patel and the government before the vigil had been clear, that a ban on gatherings had to be enforced.

    Tensions are now running high between police and ministers.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/19/priti-patel-wanted-police-stop-people-gathering-sarah-everard-vigil?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Paging BigG. How does Priti survive this revelation?

    Answer, because Johnsonian Ministers are not obliged to resign...ever.
    I'm no fan of Priti Patel, but I really don't see what she is being criticised for here (except for being a Conservative, and especially a non-white Conservative woman obv, this being the Guardian). What on earth is the contradiction between confirming that the police should enforce the (very clear) law, and objecting to the clumsy and insensitive way in which they did so?
    My point wasn't supposed to be a direct criticism of Ms. Patel. For what it's worth, under the circumstances she made a judgement call, which could be justified or criticised from whichever side of the fence one sits.

    My post was really in reference to some of the very exciteable, predominantly Johnson supporting posters who were demanding Cressida Dick and Khan's heads on the night of the arrests.
    It's not clear that the enforcement was either clumsy or insensitive. Wait for the investigation.

    Yes, we have lots of people flapping. Personally, I think there is a good chance they have been trolled.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,234
    edited March 2021
    ..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    TimT said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:
    More to do with lack of AZN efficacy against the South African variety possibly.

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2102214?query=featured_home
    Foxy. I saw those reports of the SA paper on AZN efficacy. It does not appear to jibe with other initial read outs that AZN still provided protection against the SA variant.

    Do we have any read out on the quality of the SA paper cited? I know it appears under the NEJM aegis, but one of the big problems I have had throughout this crisis is assessing which papers to believe when there is conflicting data.
    This seems a pretty well run masked study. The population was under 65s and so not surprisingly no severe cases with these numbers.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,587
    Leon said:

    Remember the guy who used to shout Bollocks to Brexit?

    He is still crazy.

    Now he is "boycotting the census"

    Strasbourg Syndrome, terminal stage V.

    https://twitter.com/snb19692/status/1372118589059252227?s=20


    1.4 thousand retweets. The Syndrome attacks many

    He must be thick because "anyone but Conservative" includes Farage's Reform Party, or rather Richard Tice's now.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Andy_JS said:

    I still haven't decided how to fill in the religion section of the census. Same problem as last time. What do you do if you're not particularly religious but don't want to tick the atheist box?

    Presumably there's a write in, in which case you could try "agnostic?" Or "vague belief in some kind of supreme being/afterlife?" Or just leave it blank.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    To my pleasant surprise, cases trending down again after having been flatish:


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,587
    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Fun with flags time, kids.

    What is this one behind Mr Grimes?

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1372854107585839110

    It's the 'Canzuk' shield but the red stars of the NZ Southern Cross appear to have been slightly bleached by DG's tears.
    A sneaky nod to White Power? Or less viscerally, the "chaps we can trust"?
    The percentage of non-white people will almost certainly be higher in Australia, NZ, UK and Canada compared to the EU. In NZ 17% of the population are Maori for example.
    Some Kiwi once told me that the numbers of people identifying as Maori jumped a couple of decades ago once the government instituted positive discrimination.

    Baffling, that.
    Same in Oz. Huge increase in "Aboriginal" population, because of poz discrimination
    Could be explained by mixed-race people deciding it's better to be thought of as Maori or Aborigine instead of passing as white.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    Jesus. That's not a great look, tho, is it? Taken alongside the odd interviews.

    Can America cope with ANOTHER president crumbling in front of their eyes? Will they learn to elect younger men and women, instead?


    I feel terribly sorry for Biden, of course, if he is in steep decline: and it does look like he might be

    The other angle is even worse. Sad. I hope I'm wrong

    https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1372938131339628544?s=20
    I stumble on stairs like that all the time, as I'm a 34 year old clutz.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    You must distinguish between patriotic flag shagging (very, very good) and nationalist flag shagging (very, very bad). A very, very easy distinction to make apparently.
    Yep. And I would if I could but it takes more skill and perception than I have. So I have to play it safe. I have to assume it's all bad. Better that 100 totally innocent flagshaggers get an unwarranted frown - and possibly plus the finger - from me than that one guilty one goes free.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Remember the guy who used to shout Bollocks to Brexit?

    He is still crazy.

    Now he is "boycotting the census"

    Strasbourg Syndrome, terminal stage V.

    https://twitter.com/snb19692/status/1372118589059252227?s=20


    1.4 thousand retweets. The Syndrome attacks many

    He must be thick because "anyone but Conservative" includes Farage's Reform Party, or rather Richard Tice's now.
    He also says they are victims, then that they refuse to be victims, which is it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited March 2021
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Jesus. That's not a great look, tho, is it? Taken alongside the odd interviews.

    Can America cope with ANOTHER president crumbling in front of their eyes? Will they learn to elect younger men and women, instead?


    I feel terribly sorry for Biden, of course, if he is in steep decline: and it does look like he might be

    The other angle is even worse. Sad. I hope I'm wrong

    https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1372938131339628544?s=20
    I stumble on stairs like that all the time, as I'm a 34 year old clutz.
    Do you keep calling Vice President Kamala Harris "the President" as well? If so, you ARE the President of the USA and I claim my five shots of Moderna

    More seriously, I knew my Dad was in deep physical decline when he started falling over like that. Happily he is still with us, and has all his marbles, but he needs someone with him pretty much 24/7 and he doesn't have to be president of America, either

    Biden is nearly 80

    I would start betting against him running in 2024. He might not even make it that far
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Jesus. That's not a great look, tho, is it? Taken alongside the odd interviews.

    Can America cope with ANOTHER president crumbling in front of their eyes? Will they learn to elect younger men and women, instead?


    I feel terribly sorry for Biden, of course, if he is in steep decline: and it does look like he might be

    The other angle is even worse. Sad. I hope I'm wrong

    https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1372938131339628544?s=20
    I stumble on stairs like that all the time, as I'm a 34 year old clutz.
    I think it happened because he tried to take it at a trot - rather than plod like Trump - hopefully lesson learned.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Andy_JS said:

    I still haven't decided how to fill in the religion section of the census. Same problem as last time. What do you do if you're not particularly religious but don't want to tick the atheist box?

    Doesn't it say "NO RELIGION" this time?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    To my pleasant surprise, cases trending down again after having been flatish:


    The drop offs in deaths is just massive. The vaccines are really having a huge effect now with all of groups 1-4 now having single jab protection of 85% against mortality. It's a game changer.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Fun with flags time, kids.

    What is this one behind Mr Grimes?

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1372854107585839110

    It's the 'Canzuk' shield but the red stars of the NZ Southern Cross appear to have been slightly bleached by DG's tears.
    A sneaky nod to White Power? Or less viscerally, the "chaps we can trust"?
    The percentage of non-white people will almost certainly be higher in Australia, NZ, UK and Canada compared to the EU. In NZ 17% of the population are Maori for example.
    Some Kiwi once told me that the numbers of people identifying as Maori jumped a couple of decades ago once the government instituted positive discrimination.

    Baffling, that.
    Same in Oz. Huge increase in "Aboriginal" population, because of poz discrimination
    Could be explained by mixed-race people deciding it's better to be thought of as Maori or Aborigine instead of passing as white.
    Almost all Maori are mixed race as intermarriage has never really been frowned upon, even in Imperial days. Indeed I have Maori cousins. There are large numbers of other Pacific Islanders in NZ too, and increasing Asian migration.

  • sladeslade Posts: 2,041
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Council tax bill has come in £2556.48, a 3.7% increase.

    Jesus. Mine is £2,778.31 a 4.8% increase.

    This issue will start becoming political again soon, methinks.
    What band are you
    Band E.
    Christ on a bike, thought my band E was bad.
    My band F is £2853 but I do get a single occupancy reduction of 25%
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    Britain has almost stopped giving out the Pfizer Covid vaccine to new patients so it can save supplies for second doses, official data suggests.

    The NHS appears to now be rationing the jab, which was used to kick off the rollout in December, and only used it for one in 10 new patients in the first week of March.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9376919/Coronavirus-UK-Britain-starts-ration-Pfizers-Covid-vaccine-ahead-supply-dip.html

    Not surprising, we knew this day was coming but now we've got ~13m people vaccinated with it as a single dose and capacity to do another 7m people once these second doses are done and Pfizer get deliveries sped up with the new production lines and gains in process we've been told about.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Jesus. That's not a great look, tho, is it? Taken alongside the odd interviews.

    Can America cope with ANOTHER president crumbling in front of their eyes? Will they learn to elect younger men and women, instead?


    I feel terribly sorry for Biden, of course, if he is in steep decline: and it does look like he might be

    The other angle is even worse. Sad. I hope I'm wrong

    https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1372938131339628544?s=20
    I stumble on stairs like that all the time, as I'm a 34 year old clutz.
    He is also coming back from an ankle injury. When did the cast come off?
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019

    The issue is not so much she is an extreme authoritarian - although that makes her beyond the pale in my view - it is that she is a dishonest coward.

    That Venn diagram is nearly all intersection.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    MaxPB said:

    To my pleasant surprise, cases trending down again after having been flatish:


    The drop offs in deaths is just massive. The vaccines are really having a huge effect now with all of groups 1-4 now having single jab protection of 85% against mortality. It's a game changer.
    101 is 43% less than last week's figure of 175. So no change in the rate of decline.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Jesus. That's not a great look, tho, is it? Taken alongside the odd interviews.

    Can America cope with ANOTHER president crumbling in front of their eyes? Will they learn to elect younger men and women, instead?


    I feel terribly sorry for Biden, of course, if he is in steep decline: and it does look like he might be

    The other angle is even worse. Sad. I hope I'm wrong

    https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1372938131339628544?s=20
    I stumble on stairs like that all the time, as I'm a 34 year old clutz.
    He is also coming back from an ankle injury. When did the cast come off?
    Apparently - no idea if true - he's been told to "act spry" to counter the allegations of mental and physical infirmity. That might explain his unwise attempt to jog up airplane stairs (which are always tricky)

    It is harder, sadly, to explain away his vagueness and weirdness in interviews
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    edited March 2021

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    kinabalu: 'Lol @ bollocks poll! Everyone really hates the flag, like me!'

    Also kinabalu: 'If after a decade in Opposition Labour can barely hang on to a seat they've held for 50 years that'll be a huge win for them!'

    Maybe, just maybe, there's a connection between those two things?
    You're falling for cliched groupthink. Or possibly just straining too hard to believe what you want to be true. Either way, you'll make some bad calls if you're not careful. You need to stay alert to changes. And answer me honestly. Your brand new neighbour goes UJ crazy. You approve? You're pleased as punch? Or do you wish he hadn't and want the lovely old one back? Another rhetorical one.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    MaxPB said:

    To my pleasant surprise, cases trending down again after having been flatish:


    The drop offs in deaths is just massive. The vaccines are really having a huge effect now with all of groups 1-4 now having single jab protection of 85% against mortality. It's a game changer.
    101 is 43% less than last week's figure of 175. So no change in the rate of decline.
    We were at around 30% WoW, we've now been seeing 40-50% WoW drops this week. There has been a definite acceleration in the death rate decline, it's fantastic news for us.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited March 2021

    To my pleasant surprise, cases trending down again after having been flatish:


    It is mildly encouraging that we're now nearly two weeks on from the schools reopening and the week-on-week comparison for cases still shows a modest decline rather than a rise. The proportionate decline in deaths is now much greater than that for hospitalisations, which is exactly what you would expect when most of the vulnerable segment of the population now enjoys significant protection through vaccination whereas most people under about 55 or 60 are still defenceless.

    The local authority map now shows most of England south of the Severn-Wash line below 50 cases per week per 100k. The most notable outliers are around the Fens, and Luton. In terms of my locality, a few new cases have appeared in town, which is disappointing; OTOH Addenbrookes, our nearest hospital and a very large one, now reports only having 21 Covid patients and just four left on ventilators.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    Some media types having a strange reaction to anything vaguely nationalistic, is it a known side effect of some of these vaccines?

    https://twitter.com/Rob_Merrick/status/1372944873570045959?s=20
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    completely off topic but without any apology

    https://twitter.com/maggieofthetown/status/1372912167750615042
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,587
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I still haven't decided how to fill in the religion section of the census. Same problem as last time. What do you do if you're not particularly religious but don't want to tick the atheist box?

    Doesn't it say "NO RELIGION" this time?
    You get counted as an atheist if you choose no religion.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    Brom said:

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    You might be correct Mrs Thornberry
    I take that as a compliment. She showed a GSOH there. People get so uptight about Labour politicians doing that. Yet they love it with "Boris". Strange one.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    kinabalu: 'Lol @ bollocks poll! Everyone really hates the flag, like me!'

    Also kinabalu: 'If after a decade in Opposition Labour can barely hang on to a seat they've held for 50 years that'll be a huge win for them!'

    Maybe, just maybe, there's a connection between those two things?
    You're falling for cliched groupthink. Or possibly just straining too hard to believe what you want to be true. Either way, you'll make some bad calls if you're not careful. You need to stay alert to changes. And answer me honestly. Your brand new neighbour goes UJ crazy. You approve? You're pleased as punch? Or do you wish he hadn't and want the lovely old one back? Another rhetorical one.
    The fact that you're struggling so much to comprehend that not everyone hates the national flag, despite having polling data proving you to be very wrong is an apt summation of Labour's current issues: for the party to win, the activists need to lose.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,587
    edited March 2021
    Haven't most people stumbled at some time climbing up those steps onto a plane? I remember doing it when I was about 20. Seems like a bit of a non-story.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    MaxPB said:

    Britain has almost stopped giving out the Pfizer Covid vaccine to new patients so it can save supplies for second doses, official data suggests.

    The NHS appears to now be rationing the jab, which was used to kick off the rollout in December, and only used it for one in 10 new patients in the first week of March.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9376919/Coronavirus-UK-Britain-starts-ration-Pfizers-Covid-vaccine-ahead-supply-dip.html

    Not surprising, we knew this day was coming but now we've got ~13m people vaccinated with it as a single dose and capacity to do another 7m people once these second doses are done and Pfizer get deliveries sped up with the new production lines and gains in process we've been told about.
    so, if Oxford causes blot clots and Pfizer doesn't, we should see an uptick in blood clot yellow card reports?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,459
    edited March 2021

    Britain has almost stopped giving out the Pfizer Covid vaccine to new patients so it can save supplies for second doses, official data suggests.

    The NHS appears to now be rationing the jab, which was used to kick off the rollout in December, and only used it for one in 10 new patients in the first week of March.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9376919/Coronavirus-UK-Britain-starts-ration-Pfizers-Covid-vaccine-ahead-supply-dip.html

    Well, I hope I'm going to get my second soon. On the initial programme I am well over the 3 weeks used when the vaccine was originally developed. The 12 weeks runs out on April 10th. That's a further 3 weeks.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    A fantastic drop from last Friday's +ve numbers with a huge number of tests being done to boot.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Some media types having a strange reaction to anything vaguely nationalistic, is it a known side effect of some of these vaccines?

    https://twitter.com/Rob_Merrick/status/1372944873570045959?s=20

    Apparently the UK did more vaccinations today than Ireland has done.... in total
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    kinabalu: 'Lol @ bollocks poll! Everyone really hates the flag, like me!'

    Also kinabalu: 'If after a decade in Opposition Labour can barely hang on to a seat they've held for 50 years that'll be a huge win for them!'

    Maybe, just maybe, there's a connection between those two things?
    You're falling for cliched groupthink. Or possibly just straining too hard to believe what you want to be true. Either way, you'll make some bad calls if you're not careful. You need to stay alert to changes. And answer me honestly. Your brand new neighbour goes UJ crazy. You approve? You're pleased as punch? Or do you wish he hadn't and want the lovely old one back? Another rhetorical one.
    On my road I have three houses flying flags. One Union Jack, one Liver Bird and one Unite.

    For obvious reasons I feel closer to two of those than the other, but I respect and don't judge any of them.

    The one with the Liver Bird went flag crazy when we won the Premier League, flying the flag of every single country of every player in the squad. A lot of flags!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021

    Some media types having a strange reaction to anything vaguely nationalistic, is it a known side effect of some of these vaccines?

    https://twitter.com/Rob_Merrick/status/1372944873570045959?s=20

    Never mind that, of course ministers are going to want to be seen taking the Oxford vaccine, because they doubtless feel it needs talking up. Pfizer isn't the one that's had its reputation trashed by other peoples' stupid politicians.
    And if they weren't, the media would be bashing them for avoiding having it.

    The media have acted like total dickheads during this pandemic. This stuff is more important than the usual knock about bollocks of Westminster as we see in place like Germany and France.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Fun with flags time, kids.

    What is this one behind Mr Grimes?

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1372854107585839110

    It's the 'Canzuk' shield but the red stars of the NZ Southern Cross appear to have been slightly bleached by DG's tears.
    A sneaky nod to White Power? Or less viscerally, the "chaps we can trust"?
    You're a strange one.

    Do you think the European Union is a nod to White Power?

    Do you think CANZUK has more, less or similar level of "whiteness" to the European Union?
    You're being too reductive and literal. These mindsets don't work like that. You have to ask why somebody like Grimes is flying the CANZUK shield. I'm sure you don't (do you?) so WTF is he and ilk doing it? I suggest it's for similar reasons that people in the States fly the Dixie flag. This is not to advertise a desire to refight the Civil War. It's to show support for a set of values. A set of values that encompass a high degree of nostalgia for a bygone age and the old ways. A set of values that in many cases are at the very least tinged with racism. It could be, I'm musing here but at the same time it's a little more than musing, that the CANZUK shield is becoming our version of the Confederate flag for our version of those Americans who choose to fly it. In which case, good, because it is a "tell". It's better to know than to not know.
    Q: Why are you calling Darren Grimes a racist?
    A: Because he's flying the CANZUK flag.
    Q: Why is that racist?
    A: Because racists fly that flag.
    Q: Racists like who?
    A: Darren Grimes.

    See also: St George's cross, the Union Jack.
    Why not show just a little intellectual curiosity about why people do what they do? It won't bring you out in a rash, I promise.
    Remember that Darren Grimes' chair has 4 legs.

    And there are 4 arms on a Swastika.

    He must be a real Nazi.
    :smile: - Oh dear. Tell you what, Matt, if you ask me nicely I'll take notes and report back to you on what the world looks like beyond the end of your nose.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Interesting story in Guardian regarding the recipients of furlough money. Wonder if there is more to come and whether anyone will care?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/19/uk-furlough-scheme-pays-out-millions-to-foreign-states-and-tax-exiles
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    kinabalu: 'Lol @ bollocks poll! Everyone really hates the flag, like me!'

    Also kinabalu: 'If after a decade in Opposition Labour can barely hang on to a seat they've held for 50 years that'll be a huge win for them!'

    Maybe, just maybe, there's a connection between those two things?
    You're falling for cliched groupthink. Or possibly just straining too hard to believe what you want to be true. Either way, you'll make some bad calls if you're not careful. You need to stay alert to changes. And answer me honestly. Your brand new neighbour goes UJ crazy. You approve? You're pleased as punch? Or do you wish he hadn't and want the lovely old one back? Another rhetorical one.
    On my road I have three houses flying flags. One Union Jack, one Liver Bird and one Unite.

    For obvious reasons I feel closer to two of those than the other, but I respect and don't judge any of them.

    The one with the Liver Bird went flag crazy when we won the Premier League, flying the flag of every single country of every player in the squad. A lot of flags!
    I used to live next to a guy who had a big flagpole in his back garden and change the flag every week. Mrs U and I always used to look out for what it was and see if we could guess what the flag represented.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    edited March 2021
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K population

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    edited March 2021
    UK local R

    image
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,750
    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    Tricky one, though. Many people may think as you do, but then think some more and, well, do they want to diss the Queen?
    I guarantee you that most people - a very clear majority - would not appreciate their neighbour sticking a great big "patriotic" flag on the roof. They'd probably not make a fuss, for fear of kicking off a feud, but the feeling would be disapproval not approval. C'mon. We all know this. So that survey is a piece of nonsense.
    I think you misunderstood me: the Queen is wont to fly the flag on her house, yet most people do not disapprove of her, if they say they disapprove of flying the flag on your house then they're disapproving of the Queen!

    More seriously, I feel much the same as you in that seeing a St George flag on a house does not make me want to dash to know the occupants. But I guess it's not so much about the flag as the connotations. Different example, I read a few years back that the clothing brand Lonsdale was favoured by neo-nazis as you could couple it with a jacket so the Lonsdale wording on the front was partially obscurred, leaving 'NSDA'. Now, I wasn't a Lonsdale buyer before, but I certainly wouldn't have been after that. Later they started sponsoring gay and multicultural events to put off the nazi crowd and that detoxified the brand for me (I still never bough any, but I would no longer have been put off by thinking that people would think I was a Nazi). Much the same with the flag. I've no inclination to stick any flag on my house, but say a family member wanted to do so then the thing that would bother me is not the flag, but everyone walking past assuming I'm a racist. So I wouldn't mind it during a football tournament as that connotation would not be there, or at least, not so much. Equally I'd be relaxed about someone sticking a Scotland flag or Isle of Mann or Yorkshire flag on my house. It's not the flag, it's the association between people who fly the England flag and racism (in England) which I don't think exists for the other home nation flags.

    Likewise for a neighbour. England flag, I'd think it lowered the tone. Union flag too, although not quite as bad. Other home nation flag or other country flag - eccentric maybe, but not really a problem. It's unfair, but there it is.

    Like you, I'm surprised by the poll.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK case summary

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    UK hospitals

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  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    That's what the EMA needed to say yesterday.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK deaths

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    dixiedean said:

    Interesting story in Guardian regarding the recipients of furlough money. Wonder if there is more to come and whether anyone will care?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/19/uk-furlough-scheme-pays-out-millions-to-foreign-states-and-tax-exiles

    I struggle to get very annoyed by story of rich person, who owns a business, legally claimed money from a scheme designed to support workers in order for their workers to be paid. Its quite different if they were trousering the money, which some unscrupulous people have done.

    No matter how personally wealth the business owner has, I don't expect them to be self funding their workforce for a year, while the government imposes sanctions which mean their business can't operate.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    This strikes me as an odd use of 'likes' on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1372919824188383233
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    edited March 2021
    Age related data

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    edited March 2021
    Age related data, scaled to 100k population per age group

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  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    Some media types having a strange reaction to anything vaguely nationalistic, is it a known side effect of some of these vaccines?

    https://twitter.com/Rob_Merrick/status/1372944873570045959?s=20

    Apparently the UK did more vaccinations today than Ireland has done.... in total
    More than any of, in total:
    - Luxembourg
    - Latvia
    - Malta
    - Cyprus
    - Estonia
    - Slovenia
    - Croatia
    - Bulgaria
    - Lithuania
    - Ireland

    And half as many as:

    Slovakia
    Finland
    Denmark
    Austria
    Portugal

    In total. In one day.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Fun with flags time, kids.

    What is this one behind Mr Grimes?

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1372854107585839110

    It's the 'Canzuk' shield but the red stars of the NZ Southern Cross appear to have been slightly bleached by DG's tears.
    A sneaky nod to White Power? Or less viscerally, the "chaps we can trust"?
    You're a strange one.

    Do you think the European Union is a nod to White Power?

    Do you think CANZUK has more, less or similar level of "whiteness" to the European Union?
    You're being too reductive and literal. These mindsets don't work like that. You have to ask why somebody like Grimes is flying the CANZUK shield. I'm sure you don't (do you?) so WTF is he and ilk doing it? I suggest it's for similar reasons that people in the States fly the Dixie flag. This is not to advertise a desire to refight the Civil War. It's to show support for a set of values. A set of values that encompass a high degree of nostalgia for a bygone age and the old ways. A set of values that in many cases are at the very least tinged with racism. It could be, I'm musing here but at the same time it's a little more than musing, that the CANZUK shield is becoming our version of the Confederate flag for our version of those Americans who choose to fly it. In which case, good, because it is a "tell". It's better to know than to not know.
    Kinabalu, the Sinfinder General. Pricking the victims, to see if they bleed. Drooling as they strip
    It's simply that I lack the peculiar mindset required to assume that anything short of KKK white sheets and hanging trees is not racist. And I note no substantive counter-argument yet offered by anybody as to why somebody like Darren Grimes would be flying this flag. He's from Durham.
    I'll talk you through it.

    Some people think the UK would have more power and say in the world if we were in a union with like-minded countries. I imagine you are one of them, except for you it is the EU

    For many eurosceptics, the EU is deeply sub-optimal because all the countries are too different (Bulgaria with Greece with Finland with Ireland?) it takes too much sovereignty, is way too bureaucratic, it can never be truly democratic, things like the euro are huge problems, and it is generally quite shit at doing important stuff, such as vaccines during a global plague

    These people think Britain would be better off in a different, looser union with countries culturally more similar to us, who have a similar standard of living, the obvious examples around the globe are Oz, Canada, NZ, with whom we ALREADY share: a language, common law, a monarchy, and parliamentary systems - that is why they are culturally similar.

    That's it. It's got fuck all to do with race, except in your tiny, feverish, witch-hunting brain
    Don't buy that, sorry. You're kidding yourself. It's as ridiculous to think 'nostalgia tinged with racism' plays no part in that vision as it is to say (which I'm not btw) that it's the only thing driving it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765

    Some media types having a strange reaction to anything vaguely nationalistic, is it a known side effect of some of these vaccines?

    https://twitter.com/Rob_Merrick/status/1372944873570045959?s=20

    Never mind that, of course ministers are going to want to be seen taking the Oxford vaccine, because they doubtless feel it needs talking up. Pfizer isn't the one that's had its reputation trashed by other peoples' stupid politicians.
    And if they weren't, the media would be bashing them for avoiding having it.

    The media have acted like total dickheads during this pandemic. This stuff is more important than the usual knock about bollocks of Westminster as we see in place like Germany and France.
    The Pfizer jab is now being stockpiled for 2nd doses someone posted earlier. So any 50ish minister getting the jab now would probably be getting Oxford whatever.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK vaccinations

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021

    Some media types having a strange reaction to anything vaguely nationalistic, is it a known side effect of some of these vaccines?

    https://twitter.com/Rob_Merrick/status/1372944873570045959?s=20

    Never mind that, of course ministers are going to want to be seen taking the Oxford vaccine, because they doubtless feel it needs talking up. Pfizer isn't the one that's had its reputation trashed by other peoples' stupid politicians.
    And if they weren't, the media would be bashing them for avoiding having it.

    The media have acted like total dickheads during this pandemic. This stuff is more important than the usual knock about bollocks of Westminster as we see in place like Germany and France.
    The Pfizer jab is now being stockpiled for 2nd doses someone posted earlier. So any 50ish minister getting the jab now would probably be getting Oxford whatever.
    Yes and so if any minister got it, it would be back to all the bullshit like when Boris or Prince Charles got tested and the media would be screeching about them getting special treatment. Firstly, they are VVVIPs, shock horror they get special treatment, but they get jabbed with the same as everybody else and some journos start making weird comments about not being the Johnny foreign one.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Fun with flags time, kids.

    What is this one behind Mr Grimes?

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1372854107585839110

    It's the 'Canzuk' shield but the red stars of the NZ Southern Cross appear to have been slightly bleached by DG's tears.
    A sneaky nod to White Power? Or less viscerally, the "chaps we can trust"?
    You're a strange one.

    Do you think the European Union is a nod to White Power?

    Do you think CANZUK has more, less or similar level of "whiteness" to the European Union?
    You're being too reductive and literal. These mindsets don't work like that. You have to ask why somebody like Grimes is flying the CANZUK shield. I'm sure you don't (do you?) so WTF is he and ilk doing it? I suggest it's for similar reasons that people in the States fly the Dixie flag. This is not to advertise a desire to refight the Civil War. It's to show support for a set of values. A set of values that encompass a high degree of nostalgia for a bygone age and the old ways. A set of values that in many cases are at the very least tinged with racism. It could be, I'm musing here but at the same time it's a little more than musing, that the CANZUK shield is becoming our version of the Confederate flag for our version of those Americans who choose to fly it. In which case, good, because it is a "tell". It's better to know than to not know.
    Have you gone crazy?

    The Confederate flag is literally linked with a doomed Civil War to try to maintain slavery.

    The flags of Canada, the UK, New Zealand and Australia are not whatsoever.

    You are making up your own strawmen.
    There's not enough meaty racism left in the Britain for an insatiable disapprover of people like our Kinabula - sadly he came to it too late. Short of inventing a time machine whereby he can return to a time of the National Front and 'No blacks' signs in boarding houses, he must be content with 'tells' to convince him of how thoroughly wicked most other people are.
    You're not the deepest of thinkers on this topic, though, are you? Somebody would need to be sat on a Union Jack sofa, wearing a "Jim Davidson: The White Riot Tour" tee-shirt, and watching endless reruns of Love Thy Neighbour before your antenna would pick up the faintest signal. And even then ...
    No, I don't tend to go around looking for things in others to disapprove of - (though of course I slip up on occasion). Thanks for noticing.
    And even if you came across the most overt of white supremacy racists you'd probably blame it on his diet.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,234
    edited March 2021
    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Fun with flags time, kids.

    What is this one behind Mr Grimes?

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1372854107585839110

    It's the 'Canzuk' shield but the red stars of the NZ Southern Cross appear to have been slightly bleached by DG's tears.
    A sneaky nod to White Power? Or less viscerally, the "chaps we can trust"?
    You're a strange one.

    Do you think the European Union is a nod to White Power?

    Do you think CANZUK has more, less or similar level of "whiteness" to the European Union?
    You're being too reductive and literal. These mindsets don't work like that. You have to ask why somebody like Grimes is flying the CANZUK shield. I'm sure you don't (do you?) so WTF is he and ilk doing it? I suggest it's for similar reasons that people in the States fly the Dixie flag. This is not to advertise a desire to refight the Civil War. It's to show support for a set of values. A set of values that encompass a high degree of nostalgia for a bygone age and the old ways. A set of values that in many cases are at the very least tinged with racism. It could be, I'm musing here but at the same time it's a little more than musing, that the CANZUK shield is becoming our version of the Confederate flag for our version of those Americans who choose to fly it. In which case, good, because it is a "tell". It's better to know than to not know.
    Q: Why are you calling Darren Grimes a racist?
    A: Because he's flying the CANZUK flag.
    Q: Why is that racist?
    A: Because racists fly that flag.
    Q: Racists like who?
    A: Darren Grimes.

    See also: St George's cross, the Union Jack.
    Why not show just a little intellectual curiosity about why people do what they do? It won't bring you out in a rash, I promise.
    Remember that Darren Grimes' chair has 4 legs.

    And there are 4 arms on a Swastika.

    He must be a real Nazi.
    :smile: - Oh dear. Tell you what, Matt, if you ask me nicely I'll take notes and report back to you on what the world looks like beyond the end of your nose.
    Just adding a little to the self-satire on this one.

    I think you are nearly in conspiraloon territory today. It's endearing but a little peculiar.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Interesting combination of policy choices in Germany at the moment. Apparently, their healthcare authorities are getting panicky about exponential case growth, tidal waves of patients swamping hospitals, etc. etc. At the same time, sunshine holidays to the Balearics are starting up again. Go figure.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    Interesting combination of policy choices in Germany at the moment. Apparently, their healthcare authorities are getting panicky about exponential case growth, tidal waves of patients swamping hospitals, etc. etc. At the same time, sunshine holidays to the Balearics are starting up again. Go figure.

    I repeat what I said this morning, I don't understand where the German reputation for competence comes from. The above seems completely stupid.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited March 2021
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    kinabalu: 'Lol @ bollocks poll! Everyone really hates the flag, like me!'

    Also kinabalu: 'If after a decade in Opposition Labour can barely hang on to a seat they've held for 50 years that'll be a huge win for them!'

    Maybe, just maybe, there's a connection between those two things?
    You're falling for cliched groupthink. Or possibly just straining too hard to believe what you want to be true. Either way, you'll make some bad calls if you're not careful. You need to stay alert to changes. And answer me honestly. Your brand new neighbour goes UJ crazy. You approve? You're pleased as punch? Or do you wish he hadn't and want the lovely old one back? Another rhetorical one.
    Of course I'd be delighted. Alas, conservation area regulations and issues of listed building consent might sadly lead them to a more subdued display of their patriotic enthusiasm. You know how it is.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765

    Some media types having a strange reaction to anything vaguely nationalistic, is it a known side effect of some of these vaccines?

    https://twitter.com/Rob_Merrick/status/1372944873570045959?s=20

    Never mind that, of course ministers are going to want to be seen taking the Oxford vaccine, because they doubtless feel it needs talking up. Pfizer isn't the one that's had its reputation trashed by other peoples' stupid politicians.
    And if they weren't, the media would be bashing them for avoiding having it.

    The media have acted like total dickheads during this pandemic. This stuff is more important than the usual knock about bollocks of Westminster as we see in place like Germany and France.
    The Pfizer jab is now being stockpiled for 2nd doses someone posted earlier. So any 50ish minister getting the jab now would probably be getting Oxford whatever.
    Yes and so if any minister got it, it would be back to all the bullshit like when Boris or Prince Charles got tested and the media would be screeching about them getting special treatment. Firstly, they are VVVIPs, shock horror they get special treatment, but they get jabbed with the same as everybody else and some journos start making weird comments about not being the Johnny foreign one.
    Looks like a case of Brexit Derangement Syndrome.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Interesting combination of policy choices in Germany at the moment. Apparently, their healthcare authorities are getting panicky about exponential case growth, tidal waves of patients swamping hospitals, etc. etc. At the same time, sunshine holidays to the Balearics are starting up again. Go figure.

    I repeat what I said this morning, I don't understand where the German reputation for competence comes from. The above seems completely stupid.
    Well to be fair, the first month, they were very sensible. Well ahead of the game with testing and they shut their borders / locked down fairly quickly. I think they were also "lucky" that their industrial focus / capacity meant they could produce the initial test and then scale it quickly, and also that their healthcare system has lots of ICU beds.

    Since then.....shakes head...keep repeating the same mistakes.

    In terms of countries who are in the premier league COVID handling, it is a very small number and of those not all have planned well for vaccines, so will be stuck with lockdown harder with a vengeance as their only strategy for longer than us.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    kinabalu: 'Lol @ bollocks poll! Everyone really hates the flag, like me!'

    Also kinabalu: 'If after a decade in Opposition Labour can barely hang on to a seat they've held for 50 years that'll be a huge win for them!'

    Maybe, just maybe, there's a connection between those two things?
    You're falling for cliched groupthink. Or possibly just straining too hard to believe what you want to be true. Either way, you'll make some bad calls if you're not careful. You need to stay alert to changes. And answer me honestly. Your brand new neighbour goes UJ crazy. You approve? You're pleased as punch? Or do you wish he hadn't and want the lovely old one back? Another rhetorical one.
    On my road I have three houses flying flags. One Union Jack, one Liver Bird and one Unite.

    For obvious reasons I feel closer to two of those than the other, but I respect and don't judge any of them.

    The one with the Liver Bird went flag crazy when we won the Premier League, flying the flag of every single country of every player in the squad. A lot of flags!
    I used to live next to a guy who had a big flagpole in his back garden and change the flag every week. Mrs U and I always used to look out for what it was and see if we could guess what the flag represented.
    Back when I was at UCL, one evening I was out walking to the pub with a lady of my aquaintance.

    She commented on the variety of flags flown from various windows - the World Cup was on. As in, look at all this diversity.

    Being a bit naive and foolish I pointed out that one of flags was actually the ARENA party flag from El Salvador. ARENA had an..... interesting reputation in the 80s and 90s. The lady was not amused....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204

    kinabalu said:

    RH1992 said:

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    Are you sure you're not Emily Thornberry stuck in 2014?

    My parents used to do this during the World Cup, and while it's not something I would do, I wouldn't prejudge someone based on that alone.
    During the World Cup is totally different. I wear an England shirt during the World Cup. But to fly a massive great flag of St George on your roof all the time? Of course I'd make some sort of judgement, based on that, of the sort of people who reside within. Obviously I wouldn't allow this to override my personal knowledge of them if I knew them - although that would be unlikely.
    You wear an England shirt during the World Cup? That can only be because you're playing - what position? You disguise your prowess well.

    For what it's worth, my wife would leave me if I ever wore an England shirt (or any football shirt). She regards such things as only tolerable for those under 14.
    :smile: - Your wife is totally right but I'm afraid I do have one, and I do don it for England WC games. It's something I've started doing just these last few years. When I was younger I wouldn't have been seen dead in one. We're talking regression here.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    MaxPB said:

    Interesting combination of policy choices in Germany at the moment. Apparently, their healthcare authorities are getting panicky about exponential case growth, tidal waves of patients swamping hospitals, etc. etc. At the same time, sunshine holidays to the Balearics are starting up again. Go figure.

    I repeat what I said this morning, I don't understand where the German reputation for competence comes from. The above seems completely stupid.
    I don't understand what they're playing at either. That said, Germany's per capita death rate from Covid-19 is approximately half as great as ours, and the gap seems unlikely to narrow substantially. Whilst I've previously suggested that we really need to go and learn from some of the East Asian countries rather than the neighbours at the end of all of this, the Germans are nonetheless clearly getting some things more right than we are.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    kinabalu: 'Lol @ bollocks poll! Everyone really hates the flag, like me!'

    Also kinabalu: 'If after a decade in Opposition Labour can barely hang on to a seat they've held for 50 years that'll be a huge win for them!'

    Maybe, just maybe, there's a connection between those two things?
    You're falling for cliched groupthink. Or possibly just straining too hard to believe what you want to be true. Either way, you'll make some bad calls if you're not careful. You need to stay alert to changes. And answer me honestly. Your brand new neighbour goes UJ crazy. You approve? You're pleased as punch? Or do you wish he hadn't and want the lovely old one back? Another rhetorical one.
    On my road I have three houses flying flags. One Union Jack, one Liver Bird and one Unite.

    For obvious reasons I feel closer to two of those than the other, but I respect and don't judge any of them.

    The one with the Liver Bird went flag crazy when we won the Premier League, flying the flag of every single country of every player in the squad. A lot of flags!
    I used to live next to a guy who had a big flagpole in his back garden and change the flag every week. Mrs U and I always used to look out for what it was and see if we could guess what the flag represented.
    Fun with flags. 👍
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    dixiedean said:

    Interesting story in Guardian regarding the recipients of furlough money. Wonder if there is more to come and whether anyone will care?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/19/uk-furlough-scheme-pays-out-millions-to-foreign-states-and-tax-exiles

    I struggle to get very annoyed by story of rich person, who owns a business, legally claimed money from a scheme designed to support workers in order for their workers to be paid. Its quite different if they were trousering the money, which some unscrupulous people have done.

    No matter how personally wealth the business owner has, I don't expect them to be self funding their workforce for a year, while the government imposes sanctions which mean their business can't operate.
    Must admit that was my initial reaction. Hence my "will anybody care?"
    However, it has the potential, and currently no more than potential, for questions to be asked when the bills need to be paid by Joe and Joanne Public.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    LOL. That is a bollocks poll! So you go to some blokes's house and see he's got the flag of St George billowing from the roof - and OVER HALF of people say they APPROVE of that?

    Come off it. You get out of there pronto, wondering what's down in the cellar.

    No, that's people not answering honestly for fear of coming over as snobby and judgemental.
    kinabalu: 'Lol @ bollocks poll! Everyone really hates the flag, like me!'

    Also kinabalu: 'If after a decade in Opposition Labour can barely hang on to a seat they've held for 50 years that'll be a huge win for them!'

    Maybe, just maybe, there's a connection between those two things?
    You're falling for cliched groupthink. Or possibly just straining too hard to believe what you want to be true. Either way, you'll make some bad calls if you're not careful. You need to stay alert to changes. And answer me honestly. Your brand new neighbour goes UJ crazy. You approve? You're pleased as punch? Or do you wish he hadn't and want the lovely old one back? Another rhetorical one.
    On my road I have three houses flying flags. One Union Jack, one Liver Bird and one Unite.

    For obvious reasons I feel closer to two of those than the other, but I respect and don't judge any of them.

    The one with the Liver Bird went flag crazy when we won the Premier League, flying the flag of every single country of every player in the squad. A lot of flags!
    I used to live next to a guy who had a big flagpole in his back garden and change the flag every week. Mrs U and I always used to look out for what it was and see if we could guess what the flag represented.
    Fun with flags. 👍
    It was rather....these days I bet he would have a podcast or a YouTube channel all about it...and we would find a million saddos tuned in every week.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Fun with flags time, kids.

    What is this one behind Mr Grimes?

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1372854107585839110

    It's the 'Canzuk' shield but the red stars of the NZ Southern Cross appear to have been slightly bleached by DG's tears.
    A sneaky nod to White Power? Or less viscerally, the "chaps we can trust"?
    You're a strange one.

    Do you think the European Union is a nod to White Power?

    Do you think CANZUK has more, less or similar level of "whiteness" to the European Union?
    You're being too reductive and literal. These mindsets don't work like that. You have to ask why somebody like Grimes is flying the CANZUK shield. I'm sure you don't (do you?) so WTF is he and ilk doing it? I suggest it's for similar reasons that people in the States fly the Dixie flag. This is not to advertise a desire to refight the Civil War. It's to show support for a set of values. A set of values that encompass a high degree of nostalgia for a bygone age and the old ways. A set of values that in many cases are at the very least tinged with racism. It could be, I'm musing here but at the same time it's a little more than musing, that the CANZUK shield is becoming our version of the Confederate flag for our version of those Americans who choose to fly it. In which case, good, because it is a "tell". It's better to know than to not know.
    Kinabalu, the Sinfinder General. Pricking the victims, to see if they bleed. Drooling as they strip
    It's simply that I lack the peculiar mindset required to assume that anything short of KKK white sheets and hanging trees is not racist. And I note no substantive counter-argument yet offered by anybody as to why somebody like Darren Grimes would be flying this flag. He's from Durham.
    Why would half the members of the Labour Party be flying the Palestinian flag when they're from Islington?
    Great question and the answer supports my insight. For many (although not all) it is a general values statement rather than being specific to Palestine. It says to the world, "I am an anti-imperialist. I hate the west." Ditto with many symbols. The Dixie flag. The CANZUK shield. Which is where we came in. If you think everyone who flies that flag is simply and only campaigning for free movement in the White Commonwealth with no hinterland of nostalgia tinged with racism, I have a bridge to sell you.
    Well, interesting to see you speak so frankly about the British left's 'Free Palestine' contingent. But whereas in that context the Palestinian flag symbolizes the West's antipole, the CANZUK flag represents the revival and deepening of an old Western alliance that is to this day still strongly linked by ties of history, language, culture, trade, and defence. Its use in the UK implies no disparagement of its opposite - for that, you'd have to imagine, if you would, the ridiculous spectacle of a Palestinian political party flying the British flag at its conferences - and so it's not the same thing at all.
    You've gone from underthinking it to overthinking it. Fine if you'd paused to join me, at least for a short while, in the sweet spot, as you sometimes do, but alas no. Not this time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    UK vaccinations

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    Lovely to see. Shame it can't last til we get everyone done, but let us celebrate what we have here. 1% of the country in a day. Phenomenal


    I wonder if it can go higher til we hit the shortage at the end of the month?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Belatedly catching up with the enjoyable vibrancy debate downthread. I broadly agree with Casino that the ideal is variety without any one community dominating everyone else. Replacing one monoculture by another isn't much fun.

    It's difficult, though. The tendency in all cities around Europe that I've seen is for foreigners to cluster. I used to get impatient with Brits in Basel who ignored Fasnacht (the quite unique variety of carnival) but would never miss a football transmission at the English-Speaking Club. But it was a comfort blanket for them - even some who'd lived there a long time. In the same way, U imagine that a Bangladeshi coming to Britain would think it a lot more natural to live in Tower Hamlets than Godalming - contacts, birth language and familiar culture.

    It does break down in large parts of London - in Holloway I enjoyed the really bewildering mix, so you stopped thinking "Oh, there's a Sikh" and just looked at everyone as individual humans. So maybe with time...

    And no, I've never thought of Godalming Pizza Express as cultural diversity :)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting combination of policy choices in Germany at the moment. Apparently, their healthcare authorities are getting panicky about exponential case growth, tidal waves of patients swamping hospitals, etc. etc. At the same time, sunshine holidays to the Balearics are starting up again. Go figure.

    I repeat what I said this morning, I don't understand where the German reputation for competence comes from. The above seems completely stupid.
    Well to be fair, the first month, they were very sensible. Well ahead of the game with testing and they shut their borders / locked down fairly quickly. I think they were also "lucky" that their industrial focus / capacity meant they could produce the initial test and then scale it quickly, and also that their healthcare system has lots of ICU beds.

    Since then.....shakes head...keep repeating the same mistakes.

    In terms of countries who are in the premier league COVID handling, it is a very small number and of those not all have planned well for vaccines, so will be stuck with lockdown harder with a vengeance as their only strategy for longer than us.
    A key strength is being able to learn from your mistakes, not being infallible in the first place.

    Mistakes have been made in every country in the west. But as it stands in March 2021 I think the UK has learnt lessons and is handling the pandemic best in class in Europe or the Americas.

    It would be good for countries to be able to put their pride to one side and learn lessons from the UK - especially the 12 week schedule - but it seems pride gets in the way in too many countries (including sometimes here) to look abroad and learn lessons.
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