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Oh dear… ODA… – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited March 2021
    Another victim of cancel culture? Or is it racist patriarchy that did for it?

    The Mash Report will not return for another series.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    edited March 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England is bang on the UK average for total jabs but Scotland and Northern Ireland are a long way behind Wales. Wales is also implementing a shorter dosing schedule.

    BiB - not much of a surprise...
    Even allowing for the weight of English population on the figures it's very close though

    Of 18+ population (Max is 200%)

    UK 47.006%
    Wales 51.295%
    England 47.008%
    NI 45.702%
    Scotland 44.970%
    I wonder whether the population estimates for Wales are off?

    Maybe there's been an influx of Londoners to the Drakeford idyll?
    I've run it through for 50+ pop estimates, Wales is over 100% on that measure. Of course there are people younger than 50 vaxxed too. Scotland lagging even worse.
    My population numbers are the same ones the immunisation program are working with, I've checked.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England is bang on the UK average for total jabs but Scotland and Northern Ireland are a long way behind Wales. Wales is also implementing a shorter dosing schedule.

    BiB - not much of a surprise...
    Even allowing for the weight of English population on the figures it's very close though

    Of 18+ population (Max is 200%)

    UK 47.006%
    Wales 51.295%
    England 47.008%
    NI 45.702%
    Scotland 44.970%
    Cheers Scotland, making England look good. ;)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,456

    kjh said:

    So 100 Tweets later does anyone here other that Scott and to an extent Richard Nabavi care about today's numbers?

    But weeks ago when reports said lorry numbers hadn't declined in Jan you were happy to post that multiple times and say na na nah to Remainers.

    Pot and kettle.
    Eh? I did no such thing.

    Lorry numbers declining in January was completely expected because of stockpiling in Q4 and people waiting to see how the border coped. The only thing I said na na nah about if any was the absence of the supposed border problems and tailbacks we'd been told ad nauseum would be there.

    We were then told the border problems weren't there because lorry numbers were down. But then the report came that by February lorry numbers were back to normal. Still no border problems and tailbacks to go with the lorries.

    Now flash forward and its back down to "there was a dip in January". Yeah, we all knew that. February will be more interesting, I expect there'll still be a dip but nothing like this.
    Philip, you posted several times about how the lorry numbers were actually at 90% (when this was announced) As we now know the Govt has been criticized for this being misleading. You enjoyed this being against the expectations of the Remainers (which is fair enough). Remainers asked how many were empty and an ongoing debate ensued. I am not going to go back and find these posts but I'm pretty sure I am right but will retract if incorrect.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England is bang on the UK average for total jabs but Scotland and Northern Ireland are a long way behind Wales. Wales is also implementing a shorter dosing schedule.

    BiB - not much of a surprise...
    Even allowing for the weight of English population on the figures it's very close though

    Of 18+ population (Max is 200%)

    UK 47.006%
    Wales 51.295%
    England 47.008%
    NI 45.702%
    Scotland 44.970%
    Cheers Scotland, making England look good. ;)
    Look across the channel - all of our numbers are excellent in comparison.

  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited March 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England is bang on the UK average for total jabs but Scotland and Northern Ireland are a long way behind Wales. Wales is also implementing a shorter dosing schedule.

    BiB - not much of a surprise...
    Even allowing for the weight of English population on the figures it's very close though

    Of 18+ population (Max is 200%)

    UK 47.006%
    Wales 51.295%
    England 47.008%
    NI 45.702%
    Scotland 44.970%
    I wonder whether the population estimates for Wales are off?

    Maybe there's been an influx of Londoners to the Drakeford idyll?
    It's something of a mystery. It's not as if each part of the UK has a separate procurement program, and the latest available ONS data suggest that, whilst Wales has the highest median age, it's only a fraction ahead of Scotland.

    My best guess is that the decision to leave less time between the first and second doses is helping with the total at the moment, because they're returning to the most vulnerable - and enthusiastic - sections of the population. Broadly speaking, although people in the UK appear from the available evidence to be very positive about the vaccines, we're going to see some diminution in take-up as the program progresses towards younger age cohorts. I suspect that a small fraction of working-age recipients may also book appointments in good faith but then have to put them off for employment-related reasons.

    The Welsh NHS will be able to utilise its resources more efficiently if it doesn't have to deal with as many no-shows and reschedules as everyone else does.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Floater said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England is bang on the UK average for total jabs but Scotland and Northern Ireland are a long way behind Wales. Wales is also implementing a shorter dosing schedule.

    BiB - not much of a surprise...
    Even allowing for the weight of English population on the figures it's very close though

    Of 18+ population (Max is 200%)

    UK 47.006%
    Wales 51.295%
    England 47.008%
    NI 45.702%
    Scotland 44.970%
    Cheers Scotland, making England look good. ;)
    Look across the channel - all of our numbers are excellent in comparison.

    Doesn't rivalry begin at home? Something like that at least.
  • Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    He's never recovered from this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wugu-2SmHJg&t=10s
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England is bang on the UK average for total jabs but Scotland and Northern Ireland are a long way behind Wales. Wales is also implementing a shorter dosing schedule.

    BiB - not much of a surprise...
    Even allowing for the weight of English population on the figures it's very close though

    Of 18+ population (Max is 200%)

    UK 47.006%
    Wales 51.295%
    England 47.008%
    NI 45.702%
    Scotland 44.970%
    I wonder whether the population estimates for Wales are off?

    Maybe there's been an influx of Londoners to the Drakeford idyll?
    If you are right, you shouldn't be reducing the number of our MPs then.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England is bang on the UK average for total jabs but Scotland and Northern Ireland are a long way behind Wales. Wales is also implementing a shorter dosing schedule.

    BiB - not much of a surprise...
    Even allowing for the weight of English population on the figures it's very close though

    Of 18+ population (Max is 200%)

    UK 47.006%
    Wales 51.295%
    England 47.008%
    NI 45.702%
    Scotland 44.970%
    I wonder whether the population estimates for Wales are off?

    Maybe there's been an influx of Londoners to the Drakeford idyll?
    I've run it through for 50+ pop estimates, Wales is over 100% on that measure. Of course there are people younger than 50 vaxxed too. Scotland lagging even worse.
    My population numbers are the same ones the immunisation program are working with, I've checked.
    Probably a wave of internal migration to the Pure Land of rainbows and great fortune that the blessed Drakeford has bestowed upon his grateful people.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    So 100 Tweets later does anyone here other that Scott and to an extent Richard Nabavi care about today's numbers?

    But weeks ago when reports said lorry numbers hadn't declined in Jan you were happy to post that multiple times and say na na nah to Remainers.

    Pot and kettle.
    Eh? I did no such thing.

    Lorry numbers declining in January was completely expected because of stockpiling in Q4 and people waiting to see how the border coped. The only thing I said na na nah about if any was the absence of the supposed border problems and tailbacks we'd been told ad nauseum would be there.

    We were then told the border problems weren't there because lorry numbers were down. But then the report came that by February lorry numbers were back to normal. Still no border problems and tailbacks to go with the lorries.

    Now flash forward and its back down to "there was a dip in January". Yeah, we all knew that. February will be more interesting, I expect there'll still be a dip but nothing like this.
    Philip, you posted several times about how the lorry numbers were actually at 90% (when this was announced) As we now know the Govt has been criticized for this being misleading. You enjoyed this being against the expectations of the Remainers (which is fair enough). Remainers asked how many were empty and an ongoing debate ensued. I am not going to go back and find these posts but I'm pretty sure I am right but will retract if incorrect.
    Not for January, no.

    Lorry numbers were down considerably in January, it was the first half of February it was back more to those figures. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/56086926
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England is bang on the UK average for total jabs but Scotland and Northern Ireland are a long way behind Wales. Wales is also implementing a shorter dosing schedule.

    BiB - not much of a surprise...
    Even allowing for the weight of English population on the figures it's very close though

    Of 18+ population (Max is 200%)

    UK 47.006%
    Wales 51.295%
    England 47.008%
    NI 45.702%
    Scotland 44.970%
    I wonder whether the population estimates for Wales are off?

    Maybe there's been an influx of Londoners to the Drakeford idyll?
    I've run it through for 50+ pop estimates, Wales is over 100% on that measure. Of course there are people younger than 50 vaxxed too. Scotland lagging even worse.
    My population numbers are the same ones the immunisation program are working with, I've checked.
    Probably a wave of internal migration to the Pure Land of rainbows and great fortune that the blessed Drakeford has bestowed upon his grateful people.
    Unless you are a man, of course.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England is bang on the UK average for total jabs but Scotland and Northern Ireland are a long way behind Wales. Wales is also implementing a shorter dosing schedule.

    BiB - not much of a surprise...
    Even allowing for the weight of English population on the figures it's very close though

    Of 18+ population (Max is 200%)

    UK 47.006%
    Wales 51.295%
    England 47.008%
    NI 45.702%
    Scotland 44.970%
    I wonder whether the population estimates for Wales are off?

    Maybe there's been an influx of Londoners to the Drakeford idyll?
    If you are right, you shouldn't be reducing the number of our MPs then.
    What have I got to do with that?

    Would be interesting if large population movements due to Covid, found by the census, were to lead to another boundary review being kiboshed.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    edited March 2021
    isam said:

    We watched a show about Ashford Castle in Ireland earlier. When it came to the cleaners, the head one was an Eastern European lady called Camilla. My girlfriend was surprised they hadn't used Irish locals. It dawned on me possibly for the first time that, in betting terms, Freedom Of Movement gave employers the ability to be able to arb the employment market in huge, infinite size - it would be like an Even money shot on Betfair being 1.8 on Betdaq in as much volume as you liked,- you'd lay the hell out of the 1.8 whilst offering to back 1.98 on the Fair. No wonder big business were so determined for Remain to win - a job that was worth £12ph to them and usually cost £10 in wages all of a sudden cost £7, so they could charge £11 - cheaper for customers and better for them - the working class English paid in lost earnings

    The genius was that it was sugar coated in a utopian "lets all nationalities live, love and laugh together" spirit that beared almost no resemblance to reality. So corporate finance was enabled by a mass of people who would shudder at the idea they were doing so.

    As Lord Glasman said "Capitalism's Greatest con trick"

    Bore.

    As in bore almost no resemblance.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,722
    edited March 2021

    Another victim of cancel culture? Or is it racist patriarchy that did for it?

    The Mash Report will not return for another series.

    Maybe it is just because it wasn't my cup of tea, but The Mash Report seemed to be not much more than some lefties sarcastically reading out quotes from Conservative MP's whilst rolling their eyes - I cant help thinking none of them were the funny ones at school
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,458
    RobD said:

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    But the tweet is accurate. Cameron was right about twitter.
    Yes, I don't dispute that. But Goodwin tweets endlessly, re-tweeting every poll that's published. And occasionally venturing further - for example, a recent tweet likening Nigel Farage to Wat Tyler. He's transformed from an independent academic into a partisan hack, and uses Twitter to provoke the culture war himself.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,629

    So 100 Tweets later does anyone here other that Scott and to an extent Richard Nabavi care about today's numbers?

    If they were positive numbers they would be of great interest to you, and you would be trumpeting them from the rooftops. The fact that bad numbers don't fit your narrative means they can be disregarded.

    What is the point of political discourse if one can only discuss issues that put the Government/Brexit/ Boris Johnson in a positive light?
    Not really because December's numbers were very positive - did anyone here trumpet them as "businesses excited we're going to leave the EU, look at all this trade"?

    No, of course not, don't be ridiculous.
    Ridiculous! How rude and dismissive.

    A 19% decline in World/UK trade for January, which under the circumstances doesn't seem too bad, absolutely through the roof decline in EU/UK trade- all of it not explained by stockpiling or Covid, worries me.

    But hey, continue to post your only positive news old bollocks, people on here seem to like it.
    Sadly you are another one like Richard Nabavi who has been so desperate to see Brexit as a disaster that you fail to demonstrate even the slightest bit of informed analysis on these numbers. Thankfully the Guardian does. It points out that the ONS itself says that these numbers are not to be considered accurate or final because they have changed the way they record the imports and exports which will make them appear worse than actuality. They also point out that the drop is significantly warped by the fact that so many companies in the EU were stockpiling in advance of the deadline for fear of what would happen to supply chains. They also say they are unable at the moment to define how much of the drop is due to lockdowns and covid affecting exports.

    If you had had any sense at all you would have waited and got the figures after a year. You would be sure to have still seen a drop in exports but at least the numbers would have been in some way representative. But like big kids you are all just too impatient to try and be proved right and of course you fear this is about as good as it is going to get for you.
    Fair enough, forgive my impatience, but I am quite confident that (setting aside the negative impact of the pandemic) reductions in exports to the EU will not be offset by Liz Truss's amazing roll-over deals with the rest of the world.

    Why any of you are trying to paper over the negative economic effects is surprising. To be fair to genuine Leavers like yourself, you have never claimed it was anything other than a reclamation of our sovereignty, and negative effects were inevitable. I accept that argument, I don't believe we needed to reclaim sovereignty personally, but enough people did to make the difference. I don't accept however Philip Thompson's claim is that we can ignore bad Brexit news because no one is interested.
    I never said that.

    I said everyone reasonable knew that the January figures were pretty meaningless due to stockpiling, lockdown, people waiting to see how the border coped and other reasons so Scott hyperventilating over them made no sense. January being disrupted was factored in to everyone's expectations already.

    Saying that trade was down in January is like saying that business was slow on 25/12. Entirely to be expected under the circumstances.
    There you go again! They are "meaningless" because they don't fulfil your narrative.
    No. 🤦‍♂️🙄

    They're meaningless because they're baked in. We all knew that January was disrupted.

    Saying that January was disrupted isn't news because we all were awake in January. But the reports are that by February the volumes were back towards normal levels. So if Feb/March figures are similarly disrupted that would be news, but it isn't going to happen.
    We hope.....
    Whether disrupted or not...we are talking about 5.5 billion

    UK gdp is 2.83 trillion so even if all the 5.5 bill is lost to gdp we are talking about a 0.2% drop in our gdp....its a blip
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2021



    You really think Cameron or any other Europhile Tory leader - or Corbyn on the Labour side - would have dared to stand aside from the EU vaccination scheme when every other country joined it? There is not a cat in hells chance.

    I have far more confidence in my nation freed from the Eurofanatics than you do given you think we are incapable of surviving without being part of the EU. Have some confidence in your own independent nation, man.

    We'll never know, but FWIW I think that is almost certainly 100% wrong. By the time the EU started to get its act together we were already well set up with our own investment and procurement programme. That had been kicked off by Patrick Vallance and Jonathan van Tam very early on, first informally and then as formal initiative in April 2020:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-vaccine-taskforce-to-combat-coronavirus

    It is inconceivable that we'd have abandoned that to join in with the EU programme, which didn't even become a proposal until mid-June, by which time Kate Bingham was already well advanced in the procurement.

    And it wouldn't exactly be the first time that the UK, when it was an EU member, didn't join in.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960
    edited March 2021
    I haven't clicked on the link, but why is Avram Grant (suitably misspelt, of course, because it's the Guardian) the co-chairman of Man United?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    isam said:

    Another victim of cancel culture? Or is it racist patriarchy that did for it?

    The Mash Report will not return for another series.

    Maybe it is just because it wasn't my cup of tea, but The Mash Report seemed to be not much more than some lefties sarcastically reading out quotes from Conservative MP's whilst rolling their eyes - I cant help thinking none of them were the funny ones at school
    The Mash website is funny and well written most of the time, though a little bit too much of a "oh aren't Brexiteers thick and racist" snooty attitude.

    The TV show from the clips shared never seemed funny. A bit like the Spitting Image remake - never saw a funny clip from that.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960
    Just to note that I had AstraZeneca jab #1 about 24 hours ago, and if how I feel now is "mild" compared to the real illness, then count me extremely grateful I had the cure before the disease.

    I am probably younger than most of the people who've had it prior (a statement that, I guess, will be true of almost everyone, but it's bloody unpleasant. My wife (younger still) seems to be having an even worse time of it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A US professor at Georgetown University has been fired for expressing sadness and frustration that black students don't do as well as they should at the college. She actually said she feels "angst" at the situation.

    Yet still got fired. Just for mentioning this inequality. Take that in, and what it implies for the future.

    https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/georgetown-law-professor-fired-after-comments-about-black-students/2603777/

    By the same logic, someone in the police or politics saying they feel bad at black people being poorer should also be fired.

    What an odd story. I feel there must be more to it?
    If you can find any more, good luck. I can't. The story seems to be exactly what it says.

    US academe is now so paranoid about racism or just perceived racism that merely mentioning any disparity in outcome, between races - even when you do that out of concern - is enough to get you fired.

    America is completely fucked if it continues down this road. Presumably we are not far behind, as we watch Kew Gardens renaming all their flowers coz racist
    Well unless its overt racism against Asian Americans.... discriminating against them doing too well, thats fine.
    The outrageous discrimination AGAINST Asian Americans is going to destroy American universities in the long term. These students will eventually go to actual Asian universities IN Asia, where being East Asian doesn't mean you have to work twice as hard and be twice as good as BAME American students, to get in.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/magazine/affirmative-action-asian-american-harvard.html
    Masterclass ran an Asian discrimination ad the other day, I think.

    It might have been against anti-Chinese hate attacks over Covid or something, though, rather than this.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,722

    RobD said:

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    But the tweet is accurate. Cameron was right about twitter.
    Yes, I don't dispute that. But Goodwin tweets endlessly, re-tweeting every poll that's published. And occasionally venturing further - for example, a recent tweet likening Nigel Farage to Wat Tyler. He's transformed from an independent academic into a partisan hack, and uses Twitter to provoke the culture war himself.
    Maybe he is more concerned about making a living than staying true to other peoples idea of what he should be
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    England is the quickest on first dose rollout, Wales last
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    He's never recovered from this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wugu-2SmHJg&t=10s
    Goodwin obviously learned his lesson given his deletion of inconvenient Trump tweets.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    RobD said:

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    But the tweet is accurate. Cameron was right about twitter.
    Yes, I don't dispute that. But Goodwin tweets endlessly, re-tweeting every poll that's published. And occasionally venturing further - for example, a recent tweet likening Nigel Farage to Wat Tyler. He's transformed from an independent academic into a partisan hack, and uses Twitter to provoke the culture war himself.
    He does what?! Thank goodness there's not a single lefty academic who uses Twitter to push partisan lines and provoke the culture war... oh wait, there are thousands of them.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    He's quoting an opinion poll, and saying that's different to Twitter.

    How does that make him a berk? Because he's pointing out facts you'd rather he didn't?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Endillion said:

    I haven't clicked on the link, but why is Avram Grant (suitably misspelt, of course, because it's the Guardian) the co-chairman of Man United?
    I went through same thing last Sun/Mon after Oxford/AZ. It is distinctly unpleasant.

    It seems to only last a day or so though in most cases.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164



    You really think Cameron or any other Europhile Tory leader - or Corbyn on the Labour side - would have dared to stand aside from the EU vaccination scheme when every other country joined it? There is not a cat in hells chance.

    I have far more confidence in my nation freed from the Eurofanatics than you do given you think we are incapable of surviving without being part of the EU. Have some confidence in your own independent nation, man.

    We'll never know, but FWIW I think that is almost certainly 100% wrong. By the time the EU started to get its act together we were already well set up with our own investment and procurement programme. That had been kicked off by Patrick Vallance and Jonathan van Tam very early on, first informally and then as formal initiative in April 2020:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-vaccine-taskforce-to-combat-coronavirus

    It is inconceivable that we'd have abandoned that to join in with the EU programme, which didn't even become a proposal until mid-June. It wouldn't exactly be the first time that the UK, when it was an EU member, didn't join in.
    Perhaps the bigger question is, how would the EU have behaved towards us if we were still a member? I suspect we'd have come under a lot of pressure to hand over most of our vaccines to them for the sake of solidarity.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    edited March 2021

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    He's never recovered from this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wugu-2SmHJg&t=10s
    Goodwin obviously learned his lesson given his deletion of inconvenient Trump tweets.
    He's such a snowflake then has the temerity to call out people for bad predictions.

    It is a trait he shares with Toby Young.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    They're £455mn in debt? 😲

    I wonder how that compares to Liverpool and the rest of the big clubs?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Archer on a Hat Trick.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    He's quoting an opinion poll, and saying that's different to Twitter.

    How does that make him a berk? Because he's pointing out facts you'd rather he didn't?

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    He's never recovered from this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wugu-2SmHJg&t=10s
    That's quite funny, to be fair.

    I've made lots of predictions that haven't come right but I'm always careful not to hold myself hostage to fortune!
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960



    You really think Cameron or any other Europhile Tory leader - or Corbyn on the Labour side - would have dared to stand aside from the EU vaccination scheme when every other country joined it? There is not a cat in hells chance.

    I have far more confidence in my nation freed from the Eurofanatics than you do given you think we are incapable of surviving without being part of the EU. Have some confidence in your own independent nation, man.

    We'll never know, but FWIW I think that is almost certainly 100% wrong. By the time the EU started to get its act together we were already well set up with our own investment and procurement programme. That had been kicked off by Patrick Vallance and Jonathan van Tam very early on, first informally and then as formal initiative in April 2020:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-vaccine-taskforce-to-combat-coronavirus

    It is inconceivable that we'd have abandoned that to join in with the EU programme, which didn't even become a proposal until mid-June, by which time Kate Bingham was already well advanced in the procurement.

    And it wouldn't exactly be the first time that the UK, when it was an EU member, didn't join in.
    I think it's inconceivable the EU wouldn't have brought all the pressure it could to bear (Ursula VdL should be good at that) on folding our program into theirs, and nicking any benefit of us having been ahead of the game. In particular can you imagine how the EU and UK having competing contracts with AZ would have played out?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Endillion said:

    Just to note that I had AstraZeneca jab #1 about 24 hours ago, and if how I feel now is "mild" compared to the real illness, then count me extremely grateful I had the cure before the disease.

    I am probably younger than most of the people who've had it prior (a statement that, I guess, will be true of almost everyone, but it's bloody unpleasant. My wife (younger still) seems to be having an even worse time of it.

    Interesting. It obviously varies a lot but it does seem to affect younger people more. My wife and I (both in our late sixties) had almost no reaction whatsoever, not even anything much in the way of sore arms.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,629
    Endillion said:



    You really think Cameron or any other Europhile Tory leader - or Corbyn on the Labour side - would have dared to stand aside from the EU vaccination scheme when every other country joined it? There is not a cat in hells chance.

    I have far more confidence in my nation freed from the Eurofanatics than you do given you think we are incapable of surviving without being part of the EU. Have some confidence in your own independent nation, man.

    We'll never know, but FWIW I think that is almost certainly 100% wrong. By the time the EU started to get its act together we were already well set up with our own investment and procurement programme. That had been kicked off by Patrick Vallance and Jonathan van Tam very early on, first informally and then as formal initiative in April 2020:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-vaccine-taskforce-to-combat-coronavirus

    It is inconceivable that we'd have abandoned that to join in with the EU programme, which didn't even become a proposal until mid-June, by which time Kate Bingham was already well advanced in the procurement.

    And it wouldn't exactly be the first time that the UK, when it was an EU member, didn't join in.
    I think it's inconceivable the EU wouldn't have brought all the pressure it could to bear (Ursula VdL should be good at that) on folding our program into theirs, and nicking any benefit of us having been ahead of the game. In particular can you imagine how the EU and UK having competing contracts with AZ would have played out?
    Especially as it would have gone to the ecj who are slightly more biassed than judge jeffries
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007

    RobD said:

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    But the tweet is accurate. Cameron was right about twitter.
    Yes, I don't dispute that. But Goodwin tweets endlessly, re-tweeting every poll that's published. And occasionally venturing further - for example, a recent tweet likening Nigel Farage to Wat Tyler. He's transformed from an independent academic into a partisan hack, and uses Twitter to provoke the culture war himself.
    He is an independent academic, but one who feels the need to amplify how people feel about populism because he doesn't see it being properly discussed - except to wholly deride it - elsewhere in academia.

    Sure, he's not always right - who is? - but that doesn't make him a berk like Delingpole, or worse like Hopkins.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Endillion said:

    Just to note that I had AstraZeneca jab #1 about 24 hours ago, and if how I feel now is "mild" compared to the real illness, then count me extremely grateful I had the cure before the disease.

    I am probably younger than most of the people who've had it prior (a statement that, I guess, will be true of almost everyone, but it's bloody unpleasant. My wife (younger still) seems to be having an even worse time of it.

    My wife had hers 2 weeks back - she was essentially fine other than a soreness around injection site.

    I have had mine today and your post does not make me feel warm and fuzzy inside :smiley:



  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    Smear, a short analysis.

    'The SNP’s links with Iran are of the gravest concern

    ...It is not simply that it operates a network of fake social media and internet sites pushing the SNP’s cause; it is that leading SNP figures, from Nicola Sturgeon down, appear to have what one might charitably call a lack of concern about consorting with figures who are either, in effect, agents of the regime or who are deeply sympathetic to it.'

    Provide not an iota of proof or even an allegation of who these 'figures' might be.

    Job done.

    https://twitter.com/JewishChron/status/1370079724488298499?s=20
  • Endillion said:

    I haven't clicked on the link, but why is Avram Grant (suitably misspelt, of course, because it's the Guardian) the co-chairman of Man United?
    Because his family own the club.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,840
    tlg86 said:

    Floater said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/12/president-biden-crumbling-eyes/

    I watched less than 60 seconds of his last public announcement and had to turn it off

    25ths going to be invoked.

    Acting President Kamala Harris, possibly before year end.

    Trump will go big on the "who knew what, when " angle.
    It is totally mad having someone that age being president, his public appearances will get less and less and he will be gone in 2 years.
    I can't agree with that. It is worth remembering that both the UK and US had war time leaders who were known to be unwell and one of whom died in office. What matters is what they do whilst they are in office, not necessarily how long they were there for.
    Also you can guarantee most of the people bringing up Biden's age today in four years will be silent about the age of Trump when/if he runs in 2024.
    Funnily enough, it's because of his age that I don't see Trump running in 2024.
    I don't think he will be on the ballot for WH24. I know it looks like he owns the GOP right now but I see time doing its (in this case) benign work. Peak Trump was that day on the Capitol. He won't be able to hold it without the trappings and exposure of the presidency. The fade starts now. That faux tweet the other day about the vaccines had a "please don't forget me, honey" deathbed vibe to it. It was, quite literally ... Sad.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,243
    TimT said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    A US professor at Georgetown University has been fired for expressing sadness and frustration that black students don't do as well as they should at the college. She actually said she feels "angst" at the situation.

    Yet still got fired. Just for mentioning this inequality. Take that in, and what it implies for the future.

    https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/georgetown-law-professor-fired-after-comments-about-black-students/2603777/

    By the same logic, someone in the police or politics saying they feel bad at black people being poorer should also be fired.

    What an odd story. I feel there must be more to it?
    Normally you would, but the US is having a meltdown at the moment....see Sharon Osborne having to apologize for defending a friend against unsubstantiated claims of racism based solely on tone used when talking.
    Since it is Mandarin for um or er, I doubt the PM will be giving any press conferences in Chinese.
    I don't know the whole story, but I think some of the things that will trigger from that excerpt of the conversation is:

    1. general statement that black students do worse without evidence or context
    2. 'some really good ones' could readily be understood that others are there because of positive discrimination in recruitment
    3. much research shows that social expectations drive much of student performance in hard subjects because it creates an angst in the students' minds as to whether they can perform to standard, and this taxes both their cognitive resources and their willpower. It has been shown to be a real effect in women in mathematics, minorities in law schools, and many other fields. If you set positive expectations and remove that angst, performance in these groups goes up; if you set expectations that they will struggle, guess what - they do struggle.

    It may well be in relation to 3. that the school is most upset with the professor.
    I think had I been the other academic on the call I would have questioned that statement - asked for some more context/evidence. I can't be sure, of course,* but I am an academic and I would find this a very odd conversation to be having, talking about students in a class I had taken and generalising by ethnic group (or sex, whatever). My experience has been that variation within ethnic group (or any other group you might think of) is much bigger than variation between groups.

    I wouldn't fire the professor for this, but make sure that they realised it was unprofessional and look, based on whether there was evidence for the things said, at whether there were more issues.

    There may well be more to this in terms of other incidents/history, but of course we don't know.

    *I do recall a conversation in the last year, in a group whatsapp where someone else made a unsubstantiated generalisation, which I challenged. I was the senior person active in the group, so I felt that it fell to me, but I'd like to think I would have done the same with someone on the same level or senior. That didn't go any further, but I don't know what would have happened had it become public. I imagine there would have been some formal disciplinary process.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Amazing really as if my trip to Tesco today is anything to go by, nobody is "socially distancing" anymore.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,458
    edited March 2021

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    He's quoting an opinion poll, and saying that's different to Twitter.

    How does that make him a berk? Because he's pointing out facts you'd rather he didn't?
    No, my point was that Goodwin said Twitter was a strange place, and he uses it himself to promote his views. I was actually replying to Rob's comment that Cameron was right about Twitter.

    And my other point was that Goodwin used to be an interesting, respectable academic (of the right, as it happens). He isn't any more. Nigel Farage is a modern day Wat Tyler? Ffs.

    If you and Bluestblue and others wish to vilify me for such innocuous remarks, be my guest.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Endillion said:



    You really think Cameron or any other Europhile Tory leader - or Corbyn on the Labour side - would have dared to stand aside from the EU vaccination scheme when every other country joined it? There is not a cat in hells chance.

    I have far more confidence in my nation freed from the Eurofanatics than you do given you think we are incapable of surviving without being part of the EU. Have some confidence in your own independent nation, man.

    We'll never know, but FWIW I think that is almost certainly 100% wrong. By the time the EU started to get its act together we were already well set up with our own investment and procurement programme. That had been kicked off by Patrick Vallance and Jonathan van Tam very early on, first informally and then as formal initiative in April 2020:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-vaccine-taskforce-to-combat-coronavirus

    It is inconceivable that we'd have abandoned that to join in with the EU programme, which didn't even become a proposal until mid-June, by which time Kate Bingham was already well advanced in the procurement.

    And it wouldn't exactly be the first time that the UK, when it was an EU member, didn't join in.
    I think it's inconceivable the EU wouldn't have brought all the pressure it could to bear (Ursula VdL should be good at that) on folding our program into theirs, and nicking any benefit of us having been ahead of the game. In particular can you imagine how the EU and UK having competing contracts with AZ would have played out?
    I think we'd have told them to get stuffed. Healthcare is not an EU competence (in either sense of the word!). In fact, probably if we had still been members it would have ended up with it being left to member states; it may have been partly the obsession with 'unity' as a reaction to Brexit which led the EU down the foolish path they took.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,629

    Amazing really as if my trip to Tesco today is anything to go by, nobody is "socially distancing" anymore.
    Perhaps you just have that sort of charisma that makes people want to share their diseases with you?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960
    Floater said:

    Endillion said:

    Just to note that I had AstraZeneca jab #1 about 24 hours ago, and if how I feel now is "mild" compared to the real illness, then count me extremely grateful I had the cure before the disease.

    I am probably younger than most of the people who've had it prior (a statement that, I guess, will be true of almost everyone, but it's bloody unpleasant. My wife (younger still) seems to be having an even worse time of it.

    My wife had hers 2 weeks back - she was essentially fine other than a soreness around injection site.

    I have had mine today and your post does not make me feel warm and fuzzy inside :smiley:



    Sorry :(

    I am repeating to myself, over and over, "that means it's working, that means it's working, that means..."
  • isamisam Posts: 40,722

    Endillion said:



    You really think Cameron or any other Europhile Tory leader - or Corbyn on the Labour side - would have dared to stand aside from the EU vaccination scheme when every other country joined it? There is not a cat in hells chance.

    I have far more confidence in my nation freed from the Eurofanatics than you do given you think we are incapable of surviving without being part of the EU. Have some confidence in your own independent nation, man.

    We'll never know, but FWIW I think that is almost certainly 100% wrong. By the time the EU started to get its act together we were already well set up with our own investment and procurement programme. That had been kicked off by Patrick Vallance and Jonathan van Tam very early on, first informally and then as formal initiative in April 2020:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-vaccine-taskforce-to-combat-coronavirus

    It is inconceivable that we'd have abandoned that to join in with the EU programme, which didn't even become a proposal until mid-June, by which time Kate Bingham was already well advanced in the procurement.

    And it wouldn't exactly be the first time that the UK, when it was an EU member, didn't join in.
    I think it's inconceivable the EU wouldn't have brought all the pressure it could to bear (Ursula VdL should be good at that) on folding our program into theirs, and nicking any benefit of us having been ahead of the game. In particular can you imagine how the EU and UK having competing contracts with AZ would have played out?
    I think we'd have told them to get stuffed. Healthcare is not an EU competence (in either sense of the word!). In fact, probably if we had still been members it would have ended up with it being left to member states; it may have been partly the obsession with 'unity' as a reaction to Brexit which led the EU down the foolish path they took.
    "...it may have been partly the obsession with 'unity' as a reaction to Brexit which led the EU down the foolish path they took."

    An astute observation I think Richard, happens in all walks of life
  • They're £455mn in debt? 😲

    I wonder how that compares to Liverpool and the rest of the big clubs?
    Top of the pile I believe.

    I do fear Internazionale Milano might go out of business soon.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9309017/Inter-Milans-owners-Suning-Group-immediately-halt-operations-Chinese-football-clubs.html
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,909

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    He's never recovered from this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wugu-2SmHJg&t=10s
    Is the YouGov poll fake then?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    Endillion said:

    Just to note that I had AstraZeneca jab #1 about 24 hours ago, and if how I feel now is "mild" compared to the real illness, then count me extremely grateful I had the cure before the disease.

    I am probably younger than most of the people who've had it prior (a statement that, I guess, will be true of almost everyone, but it's bloody unpleasant. My wife (younger still) seems to be having an even worse time of it.

    My eldest (21) had it a week ago and took to bed for 2 days.
    I struggle to recall them ever being ill before.
    The better the immune system the worse the reaction. Which is probably good news.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England is bang on the UK average for total jabs but Scotland and Northern Ireland are a long way behind Wales. Wales is also implementing a shorter dosing schedule.

    BiB - not much of a surprise...
    Even allowing for the weight of English population on the figures it's very close though

    Of 18+ population (Max is 200%)

    UK 47.006%
    Wales 51.295%
    England 47.008%
    NI 45.702%
    Scotland 44.970%
    I wonder whether the population estimates for Wales are off?

    Maybe there's been an influx of Londoners to the Drakeford idyll?
    If you are right, you shouldn't be reducing the number of our MPs then.
    What have I got to do with that?

    Would be interesting if large population movements due to Covid, found by the census, were to lead to another boundary review being kiboshed.
    It would be a great irony if Johnson mistakenly reduced seat numbers in now nearly Tory Wales.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Endillion said:



    You really think Cameron or any other Europhile Tory leader - or Corbyn on the Labour side - would have dared to stand aside from the EU vaccination scheme when every other country joined it? There is not a cat in hells chance.

    I have far more confidence in my nation freed from the Eurofanatics than you do given you think we are incapable of surviving without being part of the EU. Have some confidence in your own independent nation, man.

    We'll never know, but FWIW I think that is almost certainly 100% wrong. By the time the EU started to get its act together we were already well set up with our own investment and procurement programme. That had been kicked off by Patrick Vallance and Jonathan van Tam very early on, first informally and then as formal initiative in April 2020:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-vaccine-taskforce-to-combat-coronavirus

    It is inconceivable that we'd have abandoned that to join in with the EU programme, which didn't even become a proposal until mid-June, by which time Kate Bingham was already well advanced in the procurement.

    And it wouldn't exactly be the first time that the UK, when it was an EU member, didn't join in.
    I think it's inconceivable the EU wouldn't have brought all the pressure it could to bear (Ursula VdL should be good at that) on folding our program into theirs, and nicking any benefit of us having been ahead of the game. In particular can you imagine how the EU and UK having competing contracts with AZ would have played out?
    I think we'd have told them to get stuffed. Healthcare is not an EU competence (in either sense of the word!). In fact, probably if we had still been members it would have ended up with it being left to member states; it may have been partly the obsession with 'unity' as a reaction to Brexit which led the EU down the foolish path they took.
    But the EU obsession with 'unity' didn't begin with Brexit.

    Sure they seem to have gotten worse with it recently, but it predates Brexit.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,458

    RobD said:

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    But the tweet is accurate. Cameron was right about twitter.
    Yes, I don't dispute that. But Goodwin tweets endlessly, re-tweeting every poll that's published. And occasionally venturing further - for example, a recent tweet likening Nigel Farage to Wat Tyler. He's transformed from an independent academic into a partisan hack, and uses Twitter to provoke the culture war himself.
    He is an independent academic, but one who feels the need to amplify how people feel about populism because he doesn't see it being properly discussed - except to wholly deride it - elsewhere in academia.

    Sure, he's not always right - who is? - but that doesn't make him a berk like Delingpole, or worse like Hopkins.
    I've never, and wouldn't, compare him to Delingpole or Hopkins, so I don't know where that's come from.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited March 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England is bang on the UK average for total jabs but Scotland and Northern Ireland are a long way behind Wales. Wales is also implementing a shorter dosing schedule.

    BiB - not much of a surprise...
    Even allowing for the weight of English population on the figures it's very close though

    Of 18+ population (Max is 200%)

    UK 47.006%
    Wales 51.295%
    England 47.008%
    NI 45.702%
    Scotland 44.970%
    I wonder whether the population estimates for Wales are off?

    Maybe there's been an influx of Londoners to the Drakeford idyll?
    If you are right, you shouldn't be reducing the number of our MPs then.
    What have I got to do with that?

    Would be interesting if large population movements due to Covid, found by the census, were to lead to another boundary review being kiboshed.
    That's an interesting topic actually. London's population is alleged to have declined significantly since the pandemic. Now, how many of the losses are foreign nationals going home, and how many of them are UK nationals moving elsewhere in the UK? Where have they gone, and could that make a material difference to the electoral map?

    In crude terms, for every 75,000 electors London loses, it loses an MP. If most of those people migrate to the commuter belt then the South East and Eastern England may very well end up gaining MPs at the expense of London. Each one of those transfers is likely to be of net benefit to the Conservatives - which somehow leads one to doubt that boundary change is liable to be delayed yet again...

    EDIT: Ah, I see the problem - I've been reading through the precis of the legislation and the population estimates have already been calculated. Can't use the census. Well, of course not, it won't be available for yonks anyway. My bad.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited March 2021
    Endillion said:

    Just to note that I had AstraZeneca jab #1 about 24 hours ago, and if how I feel now is "mild" compared to the real illness, then count me extremely grateful I had the cure before the disease.

    I am probably younger than most of the people who've had it prior (a statement that, I guess, will be true of almost everyone, but it's bloody unpleasant. My wife (younger still) seems to be having an even worse time of it.

    Sorry to hear that. There are a fair few anecdotes of stronger reactions in younger people, though whether that's because they've already had Covid or just have stronger immune systems in general isn't certain. Hope the side-effects clear up soon.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Endillion said:



    You really think Cameron or any other Europhile Tory leader - or Corbyn on the Labour side - would have dared to stand aside from the EU vaccination scheme when every other country joined it? There is not a cat in hells chance.

    I have far more confidence in my nation freed from the Eurofanatics than you do given you think we are incapable of surviving without being part of the EU. Have some confidence in your own independent nation, man.

    We'll never know, but FWIW I think that is almost certainly 100% wrong. By the time the EU started to get its act together we were already well set up with our own investment and procurement programme. That had been kicked off by Patrick Vallance and Jonathan van Tam very early on, first informally and then as formal initiative in April 2020:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-vaccine-taskforce-to-combat-coronavirus

    It is inconceivable that we'd have abandoned that to join in with the EU programme, which didn't even become a proposal until mid-June, by which time Kate Bingham was already well advanced in the procurement.

    And it wouldn't exactly be the first time that the UK, when it was an EU member, didn't join in.
    I think it's inconceivable the EU wouldn't have brought all the pressure it could to bear (Ursula VdL should be good at that) on folding our program into theirs, and nicking any benefit of us having been ahead of the game. In particular can you imagine how the EU and UK having competing contracts with AZ would have played out?
    I think we'd have told them to get stuffed. Healthcare is not an EU competence (in either sense of the word!). In fact, probably if we had still been members it would have ended up with it being left to member states; it may have been partly the obsession with 'unity' as a reaction to Brexit which led the EU down the foolish path they took.
    As if that would work. A lovely QMV ruling to say all vaccines delivered within the EU have to been part of the EU scheme. Vaccines stolen.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    edited March 2021

    Smear, a short analysis.

    'The SNP’s links with Iran are of the gravest concern

    ...It is not simply that it operates a network of fake social media and internet sites pushing the SNP’s cause; it is that leading SNP figures, from Nicola Sturgeon down, appear to have what one might charitably call a lack of concern about consorting with figures who are either, in effect, agents of the regime or who are deeply sympathetic to it.'

    Provide not an iota of proof or even an allegation of who these 'figures' might be.

    Job done.

    https://twitter.com/JewishChron/status/1370079724488298499?s=20

    This dude for starters.

    Sturgeon’s link to anti-gay Iran cleric

    EXCLUSIVE: Scotland’s First Minister shared platform with firebrand Iranian cleric who compared gay marriage to bestiality

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/sturgeon-s-link-to-anti-gay-iran-cleric-1.512738
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,629

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England is bang on the UK average for total jabs but Scotland and Northern Ireland are a long way behind Wales. Wales is also implementing a shorter dosing schedule.

    BiB - not much of a surprise...
    Even allowing for the weight of English population on the figures it's very close though

    Of 18+ population (Max is 200%)

    UK 47.006%
    Wales 51.295%
    England 47.008%
    NI 45.702%
    Scotland 44.970%
    I wonder whether the population estimates for Wales are off?

    Maybe there's been an influx of Londoners to the Drakeford idyll?
    If you are right, you shouldn't be reducing the number of our MPs then.
    What have I got to do with that?

    Would be interesting if large population movements due to Covid, found by the census, were to lead to another boundary review being kiboshed.
    That's an interesting topic actually. London's population is alleged to have declined significantly since the pandemic. Now, how many of the losses are foreign nationals going home, and how many of them are UK nationals moving elsewhere in the UK? Where have they gone, and could that make a material difference to the electoral map?

    In crude terms, for every 75,000 electors London loses, it loses an MP. If most of those people migrate to the commuter belt then the South East and Eastern England may very well end up gaining MPs at the expense of London. Each one of those transfers is likely to be of net benefit to the Conservatives - which somehow leads one to doubt that boundary change is liable to be delayed yet again...
    I am migrating from the south east in june to the west country, finally got out after moving here in 87.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Pagan2 said:

    Amazing really as if my trip to Tesco today is anything to go by, nobody is "socially distancing" anymore.
    Perhaps you just have that sort of charisma that makes people want to share their diseases with you?
    B) Maybe. Cheers mate.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England is bang on the UK average for total jabs but Scotland and Northern Ireland are a long way behind Wales. Wales is also implementing a shorter dosing schedule.

    BiB - not much of a surprise...
    Even allowing for the weight of English population on the figures it's very close though

    Of 18+ population (Max is 200%)

    UK 47.006%
    Wales 51.295%
    England 47.008%
    NI 45.702%
    Scotland 44.970%
    I wonder whether the population estimates for Wales are off?

    Maybe there's been an influx of Londoners to the Drakeford idyll?
    If you are right, you shouldn't be reducing the number of our MPs then.
    What have I got to do with that?

    Would be interesting if large population movements due to Covid, found by the census, were to lead to another boundary review being kiboshed.
    That's an interesting topic actually. London's population is alleged to have declined significantly since the pandemic. Now, how many of the losses are foreign nationals going home, and how many of them are UK nationals moving elsewhere in the UK? Where have they gone, and could that make a material difference to the electoral map?

    In crude terms, for every 75,000 electors London loses, it loses an MP. If most of those people migrate to the commuter belt then the South East and Eastern England may very well end up gaining MPs at the expense of London. Each one of those transfers is likely to be of net benefit to the Conservatives - which somehow leads one to doubt that boundary change is liable to be delayed yet again...
    I think its too late to restart the process to get it complete before the next election.

    European citizens can be electors due to local elections.

    Would they have counted for boundary reviews?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,840
    isam said:

    RobD said:

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    But the tweet is accurate. Cameron was right about twitter.
    Yes, I don't dispute that. But Goodwin tweets endlessly, re-tweeting every poll that's published. And occasionally venturing further - for example, a recent tweet likening Nigel Farage to Wat Tyler. He's transformed from an independent academic into a partisan hack, and uses Twitter to provoke the culture war himself.
    Maybe he is more concerned about making a living than staying true to other peoples idea of what he should be
    That's a creative defence of grift! You're on fire.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    MaxPB said:


    As if that would work. A lovely QMV ruling to say all vaccines delivered within the EU have to been part of the EU scheme. Vaccines stolen.

    Don't be silly. The EU runs according to its treaties.

    Do you really not understand the first thing about it?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,909
    YouGov poll re: Sussexes v. Cambridges (page 2):

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/dkq32ft8nv/Royal favourability 11 March.pdf
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Al, wasn't Tyler a failure who ended up getting killed by the Mayor (Lord Mayor? I forget) of London?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,542

    Endillion said:



    You really think Cameron or any other Europhile Tory leader - or Corbyn on the Labour side - would have dared to stand aside from the EU vaccination scheme when every other country joined it? There is not a cat in hells chance.

    I have far more confidence in my nation freed from the Eurofanatics than you do given you think we are incapable of surviving without being part of the EU. Have some confidence in your own independent nation, man.

    We'll never know, but FWIW I think that is almost certainly 100% wrong. By the time the EU started to get its act together we were already well set up with our own investment and procurement programme. That had been kicked off by Patrick Vallance and Jonathan van Tam very early on, first informally and then as formal initiative in April 2020:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-vaccine-taskforce-to-combat-coronavirus

    It is inconceivable that we'd have abandoned that to join in with the EU programme, which didn't even become a proposal until mid-June, by which time Kate Bingham was already well advanced in the procurement.

    And it wouldn't exactly be the first time that the UK, when it was an EU member, didn't join in.
    I think it's inconceivable the EU wouldn't have brought all the pressure it could to bear (Ursula VdL should be good at that) on folding our program into theirs, and nicking any benefit of us having been ahead of the game. In particular can you imagine how the EU and UK having competing contracts with AZ would have played out?
    I think we'd have told them to get stuffed. Healthcare is not an EU competence (in either sense of the word!). In fact, probably if we had still been members it would have ended up with it being left to member states; it may have been partly the obsession with 'unity' as a reaction to Brexit which led the EU down the foolish path they took.
    In truth, I think the vaccine nationalism rows would be even grimmer if we were in the EU rather than outside. Maybe we can chalk that up as a relative "benefit" of Brexit ?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited March 2021

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    He's quoting an opinion poll, and saying that's different to Twitter.

    How does that make him a berk? Because he's pointing out facts you'd rather he didn't?
    No, my point was that Goodwin said Twitter was a strange place, and he uses it himself to promote his views. I was actually replying to Rob's comment that Cameron was right about Twitter.

    And my other point was that Goodwin used to be an interesting, respectable academic (of the right, as it happens). He isn't any more. Nigel Farage is a modern day Wat Tyler? Ffs.

    If you and Bluestblue and others wish to vilify me for such innocuous remarks, be my guest.
    Then consider yourself vilified. Though mostly for the gross hypocrisy, considering how many more lefty academics do the same deeply partisan stuff on social media and elsewhere without a word of criticism from you.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    He's never recovered from this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wugu-2SmHJg&t=10s
    Goodwin obviously learned his lesson given his deletion of inconvenient Trump tweets.
    He's such a snowflake then has the temerity to call out people for bad predictions.

    It is a trait he shares with Toby Young.
    I think we're not far off these types claiming that they have to self cancel their dumb tweets because of dangerous Wokists infesting social media and the realm.

    'Rather than take up valuable police time by asking for protection because @wearealltherainforest2000 said my really stupid fucking tweet was really fucking stupid, I have decided to delete the really fucking stupid tweet.'
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,629

    MaxPB said:


    As if that would work. A lovely QMV ruling to say all vaccines delivered within the EU have to been part of the EU scheme. Vaccines stolen.

    Don't be silly. The EU runs according to its treaties.

    Do you really not understand the first thing about it?
    The point of lisbon was they could amend the rules without having to produce new treaties....one of the selling points I believe
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,080
    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Two strongest EU vaccinators are from "small countries which bought outside the EU procurement scheme that was supposed to protect small countries":

    https://www.politico.eu/coronavirus-in-europe/


    Yes, also demonstrates my point that had we still been part of the EU we would most likely not have been part of the EU scheme, we would have done our own thing.

    Sorry Brexiteers, but your only claim to good news about Brexit is, like everything else you have claimed, a crock of shit.
    I think Brexiteers are making a broader point, that doing your own thing is better than being part of the collective, where the EU represents the collective way of doing things. I think that point is reasonable. If the EU isn't for the collective way of doing things, then what is it for? Whether the issue is the way the EU has gone about it and collectives are in principle OK, or that collectives are never a good idea isn't explored.

    My personal view is that UK's vaccine success, which is a genuine one, is essentially a prisoner's dilemma, given the extent to which the UK programme depends on EU supplied vaccines. From its own PoV, the EU slipped up by not maximally securing its own supply. The success of the UK programme depended on the EU making that mistake. The context to Charles Michel's comments this week was his trying to justify the export of vaccines as international solidarity, rather than EU incompetence. No-one believed him.
    The UK programme does not depend on EU supplied vaccines.
    8 million vaccines supplied from the EU against 11 million innoculations delivered in February (NYTimes and OurWorldinData respectively).

    Eventually there would be enough vaccines to do everyone in the UK as will happen in all developed countries as it is. But the claimed success for the UK programme is that it is doing it quicker than other countries, not that it is doing it at all. That success depended on the EU not securing vaccines for itself that it could have done.
    I don't really agree there.

    Leaving aside the obvious point that Pfizer jabs are from Pfizer not "The EU", so Plan B would be for Pfizer to supply them from somewhere else if it exists, we have 100m AZ jabs in the pipeline anyway - which alone is ~95% of the total we need for adults (2 x 53m).

    The Pfizer supplies are ultimately marginal.

    Combine that with another vaccine approved, and another about to be approved, which will be produced in the UK. And I am not really sure that any delay would be that significant.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    FF43 said:


    In truth, I think the vaccine nationalism rows would be even grimmer if we were in the EU rather than outside. Maybe we can chalk that up as a relative "benefit" of Brexit ?

    It may be. Certainly we can all chalk up the EU's performance on the procurement as abysmal, and their temper tantrums and attempts at blame-shifting as disgraceful.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786

    Endillion said:

    Just to note that I had AstraZeneca jab #1 about 24 hours ago, and if how I feel now is "mild" compared to the real illness, then count me extremely grateful I had the cure before the disease.

    I am probably younger than most of the people who've had it prior (a statement that, I guess, will be true of almost everyone, but it's bloody unpleasant. My wife (younger still) seems to be having an even worse time of it.

    Sorry to hear that. There are a fair few anecdotes of stronger reactions in younger people, though whether that's because they've already had Covid or just have stronger immune systems in general isn't certain. Hope the side-effects clear up soon.
    Thinking out loud, if younger people have a stronger immune response, maybe they don't need as big a dose, so we could reduce the dose and vaccinate more people quicker?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,456
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:
    I posted that last night.

    I fail to see the outrage, unless you're an actual heifer.

    I mean what adjectives do you use for someone who managed to lose a council seat to the Tories and then a parliamentary seat to the Tories that the Tories have never held before in a little over two years?
    If only we had @ydoethur around.
    There's an Eric Heifer pun dying to be made.
    I assume his absence is due to the return to school rather than anything else I have missed?
    And what about @Sandpit I was pondering the other day? Not noticed him but then I've been on a bit less of late.
    He is around. I have noticed him 'liking' a few posts today.
    Including a couple of mine - so something might have happened to him.
    Sandpit is generous with his likes and across the political spectrum so I doubt he has had a blow to the head nor have you worn him down and converted him into a lefty.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,840
    isam said:

    Another victim of cancel culture? Or is it racist patriarchy that did for it?

    The Mash Report will not return for another series.

    Maybe it is just because it wasn't my cup of tea, but The Mash Report seemed to be not much more than some lefties sarcastically reading out quotes from Conservative MP's whilst rolling their eyes - I cant help thinking none of them were the funny ones at school
    That can be fertile comedic soil, though, what Conservative MPs say. They've got some rum characters in their ranks who come out with some quite choice remarks.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:


    As if that would work. A lovely QMV ruling to say all vaccines delivered within the EU have to been part of the EU scheme. Vaccines stolen.

    Don't be silly. The EU runs according to its treaties.

    Do you really not understand the first thing about it?
    Lol, the same treaties that made QE impossible?

    The lack of understanding isn't on my side, Richard. Your love of the EU has blinded you into what it has turned into. You have this idealised version of the EU that doesn't exist in reality, you want to be in the idealised one, we voted to leave the real one.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,722
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    But the tweet is accurate. Cameron was right about twitter.
    Yes, I don't dispute that. But Goodwin tweets endlessly, re-tweeting every poll that's published. And occasionally venturing further - for example, a recent tweet likening Nigel Farage to Wat Tyler. He's transformed from an independent academic into a partisan hack, and uses Twitter to provoke the culture war himself.
    Maybe he is more concerned about making a living than staying true to other peoples idea of what he should be
    That's a creative defence of grift! You're on fire.
    I don't mean to defend him, sorry. But maybe he knows what he is doing, that what he is criticised for on here, but just wants to get publicity to sell books, get on tv, pay the mortgage whatever, and doesn't really care. I think that is quite possible, as is the idea that he is not all that clever, or just latched on to an idea, applies it to everything and is a bit blinkered by it... it has been known!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,629
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:
    I posted that last night.

    I fail to see the outrage, unless you're an actual heifer.

    I mean what adjectives do you use for someone who managed to lose a council seat to the Tories and then a parliamentary seat to the Tories that the Tories have never held before in a little over two years?
    If only we had @ydoethur around.
    There's an Eric Heifer pun dying to be made.
    I assume his absence is due to the return to school rather than anything else I have missed?
    And what about @Sandpit I was pondering the other day? Not noticed him but then I've been on a bit less of late.
    He is around. I have noticed him 'liking' a few posts today.
    Including a couple of mine - so something might have happened to him.
    Sandpit is generous with his likes and across the political spectrum so I doubt he has had a blow to the head nor have you worn him down and converted him into a lefty.
    Indeed even I have had likes from you Kinablu doesn't mean I think I have made you a non leftie
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598

    Floater said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/12/president-biden-crumbling-eyes/

    I watched less than 60 seconds of his last public announcement and had to turn it off

    25ths going to be invoked.

    Acting President Kamala Harris, possibly before year end.

    Trump will go big on the "who knew what, when " angle.
    It is totally mad having someone that age being president, his public appearances will get less and less and he will be gone in 2 years.
    I can't agree with that. It is worth remembering that both the UK and US had war time leaders who were known to be unwell and one of whom died in office. What matters is what they do whilst they are in office, not necessarily how long they were there for.
    Also you can guarantee most of the people bringing up Biden's age today in four years will be silent about the age of Trump when/if he runs in 2024.
    Yes PB Trumptons out in force today with their faux sympathy. Yuk.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,542

    FF43 said:


    In truth, I think the vaccine nationalism rows would be even grimmer if we were in the EU rather than outside. Maybe we can chalk that up as a relative "benefit" of Brexit ?

    It may be. Certainly we can all chalk up the EU's performance on the procurement as abysmal, and their temper tantrums and attempts at blame-shifting as disgraceful.
    Actually, I think the EU will do fine, just as the UK would have done fine if the EU hadn't helpfully provided us with their early vaccines. There are plenty of vaccines coming down the pike everywhere and once you have vaccinated your own people you are relaxed about allowing your supply to go to other countries.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,458

    Mr. Al, wasn't Tyler a failure who ended up getting killed by the Mayor (Lord Mayor? I forget) of London?

    I believe that's correct. I'd still distinguish the leader of the Peasants' Revolt from Nigel Farage. The former was a revolt; the latter is just revolting.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    TimT said:

    Richard, I simply do not agree with your analysis. I think we would have buckled, and joined the consensus on how to approach the whole vaccine issue. It is possible, just possible, that the push to a unified approach was Brexit-induced, but I strongly doubt that too.

    The EU is a one-directional ratchet, towards evermore centralized power, decision-making and control. This was coming, regardless of Brexit, IMO.

    In any case, it is moot. We are where we are, and what iffery does not change that.

    Actually the ratchet has very much jumped backwards on this one. You won't be seeing any future involvement of the Commission in healthcare and procurement after this debacle. Member states make little secret of the fact that they think it was a disaster.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,456

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    So 100 Tweets later does anyone here other that Scott and to an extent Richard Nabavi care about today's numbers?

    But weeks ago when reports said lorry numbers hadn't declined in Jan you were happy to post that multiple times and say na na nah to Remainers.

    Pot and kettle.
    Eh? I did no such thing.

    Lorry numbers declining in January was completely expected because of stockpiling in Q4 and people waiting to see how the border coped. The only thing I said na na nah about if any was the absence of the supposed border problems and tailbacks we'd been told ad nauseum would be there.

    We were then told the border problems weren't there because lorry numbers were down. But then the report came that by February lorry numbers were back to normal. Still no border problems and tailbacks to go with the lorries.

    Now flash forward and its back down to "there was a dip in January". Yeah, we all knew that. February will be more interesting, I expect there'll still be a dip but nothing like this.
    Philip, you posted several times about how the lorry numbers were actually at 90% (when this was announced) As we now know the Govt has been criticized for this being misleading. You enjoyed this being against the expectations of the Remainers (which is fair enough). Remainers asked how many were empty and an ongoing debate ensued. I am not going to go back and find these posts but I'm pretty sure I am right but will retract if incorrect.
    Not for January, no.

    Lorry numbers were down considerably in January, it was the first half of February it was back more to those figures. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/56086926
    Well if I am quoting incorrectly I apologise.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,722
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Another victim of cancel culture? Or is it racist patriarchy that did for it?

    The Mash Report will not return for another series.

    Maybe it is just because it wasn't my cup of tea, but The Mash Report seemed to be not much more than some lefties sarcastically reading out quotes from Conservative MP's whilst rolling their eyes - I cant help thinking none of them were the funny ones at school
    That can be fertile comedic soil, though, what Conservative MPs say. They've got some rum characters in their ranks who come out with some quite choice remarks.
    I found it funny in the mid 80s; Friday/Saturday Night Live hosted by Ben Elton? I recorded them and rewatched religiously
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,629
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:


    In truth, I think the vaccine nationalism rows would be even grimmer if we were in the EU rather than outside. Maybe we can chalk that up as a relative "benefit" of Brexit ?

    It may be. Certainly we can all chalk up the EU's performance on the procurement as abysmal, and their temper tantrums and attempts at blame-shifting as disgraceful.
    Actually, I think the EU will do fine, just as the UK would have done fine if the EU hadn't helpfully provided us with their early vaccines. There are plenty of vaccines coming down the pike everywhere and once you have vaccinated your own people you are relaxed about allowing your supply to go to other countries.
    The eu didnt provide us with anything Pfizer provided us with the vaccines we had contracted for. Simple as that
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    TimT said:

    Richard, I simply do not agree with your analysis. I think we would have buckled, and joined the consensus on how to approach the whole vaccine issue. It is possible, just possible, that the push to a unified approach was Brexit-induced, but I strongly doubt that too.

    The EU is a one-directional ratchet, towards evermore centralized power, decision-making and control. This was coming, regardless of Brexit, IMO.

    In any case, it is moot. We are where we are, and what iffery does not change that.

    Actually the ratchet has very much jumped backwards on this one. You won't be seeing any future involvement of the Commission in healthcare and procurement after this debacle. Member states make little secret of the fact that they think it was a disaster.
    Except they are already talking about a health union. The EU only has one direction.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:


    In truth, I think the vaccine nationalism rows would be even grimmer if we were in the EU rather than outside. Maybe we can chalk that up as a relative "benefit" of Brexit ?

    It may be. Certainly we can all chalk up the EU's performance on the procurement as abysmal, and their temper tantrums and attempts at blame-shifting as disgraceful.
    Actually, I think the EU will do fine, just as the UK would have done fine if the EU hadn't helpfully provided us with their early vaccines. There are plenty of vaccines coming down the pike everywhere and once you have vaccinated your own people you are relaxed about allowing your supply to go to other countries.
    "Their vaccines". An interesting reading of the situation. If they didn't pay for them, how exactly are they "theirs"?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Amazing really as if my trip to Tesco today is anything to go by, nobody is "socially distancing" anymore.
    Social distancing in supermarkets has never been a thing. Whether the place as a whole is packed out or not depends on how good the control on the doors is; once people are in then they go where they need to go.

    Nobody is interested in waiting politely at the bottom of an aisle if there are three other buggers already in it and they're all stood stationary and dithering/chatting to a mate they happen to have bumped into/trying to wrangle several screaming kids for about ten minutes. Which is typically what happens in all the places in the shop where you actually want to go.

    Accounting for both that, and the fact that people are forever picking things up off the shelves and putting them back again (which you often have to do - they always put the short expiry date rubbish at the front in the chilled sections, of course,) I wouldn't be at all surprised if grocery shopping was the single biggest driver of infection in the entire pandemic. It's probably where most of the old people who died, other than care home inmates, picked the damned disease up.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,629
    RobD said:

    TimT said:

    Richard, I simply do not agree with your analysis. I think we would have buckled, and joined the consensus on how to approach the whole vaccine issue. It is possible, just possible, that the push to a unified approach was Brexit-induced, but I strongly doubt that too.

    The EU is a one-directional ratchet, towards evermore centralized power, decision-making and control. This was coming, regardless of Brexit, IMO.

    In any case, it is moot. We are where we are, and what iffery does not change that.

    Actually the ratchet has very much jumped backwards on this one. You won't be seeing any future involvement of the Commission in healthcare and procurement after this debacle. Member states make little secret of the fact that they think it was a disaster.
    Except they are already talking about a health union. The EU only has one direction.
    and like the band one direction they are equally dire....von der leyden is the harry styles of the eu
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,458

    Reminder #28495951 that Goodwin used to be quite an interesting academic before he became a populist berk forever tweeting on behalf of the right in the culture war. Wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Lozza Fox's new outfit and standing for something somewhere.
    He's quoting an opinion poll, and saying that's different to Twitter.

    How does that make him a berk? Because he's pointing out facts you'd rather he didn't?
    No, my point was that Goodwin said Twitter was a strange place, and he uses it himself to promote his views. I was actually replying to Rob's comment that Cameron was right about Twitter.

    And my other point was that Goodwin used to be an interesting, respectable academic (of the right, as it happens). He isn't any more. Nigel Farage is a modern day Wat Tyler? Ffs.

    If you and Bluestblue and others wish to vilify me for such innocuous remarks, be my guest.
    Then consider yourself vilified. Though mostly for the gross hypocrisy, considering how many more lefty academics do the same deeply partisan stuff on social media and elsewhere without a word of criticism from you.
    Do point me to them and I'll happily criticise them if I don't think their work is up to scratch or has gone down the pan like Goodwin's.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited March 2021

    Endillion said:

    Just to note that I had AstraZeneca jab #1 about 24 hours ago, and if how I feel now is "mild" compared to the real illness, then count me extremely grateful I had the cure before the disease.

    I am probably younger than most of the people who've had it prior (a statement that, I guess, will be true of almost everyone, but it's bloody unpleasant. My wife (younger still) seems to be having an even worse time of it.

    Sorry to hear that. There are a fair few anecdotes of stronger reactions in younger people, though whether that's because they've already had Covid or just have stronger immune systems in general isn't certain. Hope the side-effects clear up soon.
    Thinking out loud, if younger people have a stronger immune response, maybe they don't need as big a dose, so we could reduce the dose and vaccinate more people quicker?
    That's a nice idea, but I wonder if they have the data to do so accurately and how easy it is to adjust dose size on the fly. It's making me a bit nervous about getting mine, but what can you do?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    TimT said:

    Richard, I simply do not agree with your analysis. I think we would have buckled, and joined the consensus on how to approach the whole vaccine issue. It is possible, just possible, that the push to a unified approach was Brexit-induced, but I strongly doubt that too.

    The EU is a one-directional ratchet, towards evermore centralized power, decision-making and control. This was coming, regardless of Brexit, IMO.

    In any case, it is moot. We are where we are, and what iffery does not change that.

    Actually the ratchet has very much jumped backwards on this one. You won't be seeing any future involvement of the Commission in healthcare and procurement after this debacle. Member states make little secret of the fact that they think it was a disaster.
    More delusion on how the EU actually works, Richard. They're already banging the drum for "more Europe" on healthcare and blaming the vaccine failure on "not enough EU". Maybe you need to actually see the EU for what it really is and reasses whether it's an organisation that the UK should be have stayed in.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742

    Smear, a short analysis.

    'The SNP’s links with Iran are of the gravest concern

    ...It is not simply that it operates a network of fake social media and internet sites pushing the SNP’s cause; it is that leading SNP figures, from Nicola Sturgeon down, appear to have what one might charitably call a lack of concern about consorting with figures who are either, in effect, agents of the regime or who are deeply sympathetic to it.'

    Provide not an iota of proof or even an allegation of who these 'figures' might be.

    Job done.

    https://twitter.com/JewishChron/status/1370079724488298499?s=20

    This dude for starters.

    Sturgeon’s link to anti-gay Iran cleric

    EXCLUSIVE: Scotland’s First Minister shared platform with firebrand Iranian cleric who compared gay marriage to bestiality

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/sturgeon-s-link-to-anti-gay-iran-cleric-1.512738
    Seems a lot of A was in the same room as B who said C and attended event D.

    Is the Quds rally a regular legal event in London?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    TimT said:

    Richard, I simply do not agree with your analysis. I think we would have buckled, and joined the consensus on how to approach the whole vaccine issue. It is possible, just possible, that the push to a unified approach was Brexit-induced, but I strongly doubt that too.

    The EU is a one-directional ratchet, towards evermore centralized power, decision-making and control. This was coming, regardless of Brexit, IMO.

    In any case, it is moot. We are where we are, and what iffery does not change that.

    Actually the ratchet has very much jumped backwards on this one. You won't be seeing any future involvement of the Commission in healthcare and procurement after this debacle. Member states make little secret of the fact that they think it was a disaster.
    Fair enough. But it has taken international humiliation for that one instance of reversing direction to happen.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:


    In truth, I think the vaccine nationalism rows would be even grimmer if we were in the EU rather than outside. Maybe we can chalk that up as a relative "benefit" of Brexit ?

    It may be. Certainly we can all chalk up the EU's performance on the procurement as abysmal, and their temper tantrums and attempts at blame-shifting as disgraceful.
    Actually, I think the EU will do fine, just as the UK would have done fine if the EU hadn't helpfully provided us with their early vaccines. There are plenty of vaccines coming down the pike everywhere and once you have vaccinated your own people you are relaxed about allowing your supply to go to other countries.
    They will eventually get there, of course; as you say there are plenty of vaccines coming. Nonetheless, they'll have lost several months, at the cost of thousands of lives, and avoidable damage to their economies - especially those dependent on tourism. They may well have lost a good part of a second year's worth of the tourist season.
This discussion has been closed.