Also, like Putin, the assiduously court the least sophisticated section of society having lost the most sophisticated through corruption and incompetence.
Brexiteers and Scottish Nationalists are the utensils to Putin's ambition of a neutered EU and a neutered UK. Well done thickheads! Putin must love his Useful Idiots.
Morning Nigel. How is life in your strange little fantasy world this morning?
Sorry if you took offence Richard as you are my favourite Brexit supporter! Fact is that Putin wanted Brexit. Whether he influenced the vote is open to debate, and I for one am happy to have to live with the outcome. Putin also definitely wants Scottish succession. None of that is fantasy.
As for my fantasy world, I regret I will not even share that with PB members, broadminded though many may be, but I assure them it is all legal!
Nicola Sturgeon / SNP conspiracy theory. They don’t actually want independence because after indy they may lose their cosy jobs and pensions. Therefore they have been taking desperate measures to ensure that, whilst they remain the largest party, they don’t win an overall majority. I can think of any other reason for their behaviour over the past weeks.
This just serves to show how weird Twitter is: anyone can commit a rape, of course - just as anyone can commit a murder.
If the point is that every woman thinks every man is a credible prospective assailant, then I think that's just crazy. You can't live your life like that.
It'd be like me assuming every woman was out to clean me out, or every business trying to swindle me. You should be savvy, of course, but you have to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Isn't the problem though that a lot of women are very wary, for good reason, if not a a defence mechanism.
My girlfriend wont walk on her own late at night, for example, whereas I wouldn't have second thoughts.
Mr. kinabalu, men are a majority of violent crime victims.
One problem with the blanket approach of 'men need to change' is that it's happy to acknowledge the fact that perpetrators of violent crimes (including rape) are likely to be men but there's scant regard given to the fact men are likelier to be victims of (non-sexual) violent crime.
Most people are happy to consider men potential criminals but more reluctant to see them as potential victims (this isn't as bad as it was, but used to be atrocious with regards to domestic abuse).
Men are twice as likely to be victims of violent crime - but about four times as likely to be perpetrators.
On 2 occasions male passengers asked this lady to move because she was a woman. She dug her heels in and refused. EasyJet bribed her to move (albeit with just a hot drink) and she sues them because they didn’t back her up but sought conflict resolution.
If the men were uncomfortable then EasyJet could have found somewhere for them to move to. Absolutely shouldn't be down to the woman to make way.
I agree in principle that would be better (and that’s what they did on one occasion).
On the other they asked her to move 2 rows forward and gave her a hot drink for free.
The cabin crew are in a situation where two men are being unreasonable, an ok solution is available and they compensated the woman for moving.
I’m generally of the views that a reasonable solution given the facts on the ground and the pressure they are under to hit departure times.
There should have been give and take I agree, but in the end what wasn't done was to say to the men, these are the arrangements, if you don't like it, find another carrier.
I agree, although that would have been religious discrimination
FFS we are talking about someone being asked to move two rows!
Nah. Anyone who complains about having a woman sat next to them rather than a man should be laughed at and pointed at.
Is it the case that the Scottish Greens are only fielding Regional List Candidates?
Am I correct that this is what they have done before?
They've always stood in at least one constituency I think. This time round they are standing a candidate in two constituencies in the Lothian region, Edinburgh Central and Edinburgh Northern and Leith, but not the other six.
Don't know about other regions.
Patrick Harvie normally stands in Edinburgh Kelvin.
I never quite got why Tesla decided Germany - if you know how the country works it made little sense.
Lots of supplier support for the automotive industry and a huge amount of other employees they can poach in the area. They can attract/steal talent from Porsche and BMW in Leipzig, VW in Dresden and MB in Berlin.
If they put it in Hartlepool they might able to get the bloke who puts the floormats in finished Qashqais.
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
It feels like a Brandenburg airport in the making. It could be that the rumoured UK gigafactory actually opens before the Berlin one.
I never quite got why Tesla decided Germany - if you know how the country works it made little sense.
Here once you've got planning permission you are good to go and I suspect planning permission for Tesla would be a formality. Mr Musk where would you like the Freeport to be placed?
I think it was to turn Tesla into a domestic brand for German buyers who are notoriously picky over which brands they will buy. Ultimately that doesn't look like it will work and construction of the factory is stuck in 17 layers of planning bureaucracy.
Nicola Sturgeon / SNP conspiracy theory. They don’t actually want independence because after indy they may lose their cosy jobs and pensions. Therefore they have been taking desperate measures to ensure that, whilst they remain the largest party, they don’t win an overall majority. I can think of any other reason for their behaviour over the past weeks.
One theory I've read and it kinda makes sense is that the SNP know mahoosive leads they've had in the independence front are ephemeral because of Covid-19 and will unwind with the vaccine rollout.
Sturgeon and others know that if Yes loses Indyref2 then that really is it for a generation, like 40 year long generation.
This just serves to show how weird Twitter is: anyone can commit a rape, of course - just as anyone can commit a murder.
If the point is that every woman thinks every man is a credible prospective assailant, then I think that's just crazy. You can't live your life like that.
It'd be like me assuming every woman was out to clean me out, or every business trying to swindle me. You should be savvy, of course, but you have to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Isn't the problem though that a lot of women are very wary, for good reason, if not a a defence mechanism.
My girlfriend wont walk on her own late at night, for example, whereas I wouldn't have second thoughts.
I would, depending on where it was - very wary in big cities and I steer clear of groups of young men. I've been assaulted before.
I think a woman would be *even more* wary though - FWIW, my wife has been assaulted too, although she fought off / shamed off the assailant very admirably.
Is it the case that the Scottish Greens are only fielding Regional List Candidates?
Am I correct that this is what they have done before?
No and No
Their contesting Edinburgh Central in 2016 let Ruth Davidson come through the middle, which may be thought of as a good or a bad thing depending on your pov.
It may be thought of as a good thing this time. It would keep Angus Robertson out, and serve the SNP leadership right for their treatment of Joanna Cherry.
Nicola Sturgeon / SNP conspiracy theory. They don’t actually want independence because after indy they may lose their cosy jobs and pensions. Therefore they have been taking desperate measures to ensure that, whilst they remain the largest party, they don’t win an overall majority. I can think of any other reason for their behaviour over the past weeks.
So if you're an indy supporter who's turned against the SNP, the best way to stick it to 'em is #bothvotesSNP?
This just serves to show how weird Twitter is: anyone can commit a rape, of course - just as anyone can commit a murder.
If the point is that every woman thinks every man is a credible prospective assailant, then I think that's just crazy. You can't live your life like that.
It'd be like me assuming every woman was out to clean me out, or every business trying to swindle me. You should be savvy, of course, but you have to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Isn't the problem though that a lot of women are very wary, for good reason, if not a a defence mechanism.
My girlfriend wont walk on her own late at night, for example, whereas I wouldn't have second thoughts.
I would, depending on where it was - very wary in big cities and I steer clear of groups of young men. I've been assaulted before.
I think a woman would be *even more* wary though - FWIW, my wife has been assaulted too, although she fought off / shamed off the assailant very admirably.
Maybe I'm just reckless but I used to walk home (1hr+) from nights out in Birmingham through the dodgiest inner-city suburbs, and I certainly feel safe walking through Newcastle late at night... Maybe I've just been lucky.
Very glad to hear your wife managed to fight off her attacker though and sorry to hear about your experience.
I guess it just shows our risk profile is formed by our experiences.
I'd have far more confidence in this if we were keeping corporation tax competitive, creating generous investment allowances, driving well-funded R&D, supporting adult education/apprenticeships, leading regulatory reform and cutting employer's NI rates so we were as attractive as a mother-f-er.
But, it feels like mixed messages to me at present.
Where's the big strat on all this stuff?
We are rearranging deckchairs by abolishing the Industrial Strategy Council in favour of coming up with strategy some other way.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
They did the same with the water rights, and that got sorted out. It's like everything else Tesla does - they take risks in order to move fast. Sometimes it doesn't work; most of the time it does.
But it's a reasonable assumption they'd have built it in the UK had we not Brexited.
From the look if it they still are planning to build in the UK, despite Brexit.
Not sure why you'd assume they'd build in the UK first had we not Brexited. Germany is the car manufacturing hub of Europe so they might rightly have assumed either way that Germany was the best place to invest in first. As it happens it looks like they're now planning to build in the UK anyway so what are you worrying about?
I thought the UK had never been a serious contender for a Tesla Gigafactory.
Is it the case that the Scottish Greens are only fielding Regional List Candidates?
Am I correct that this is what they have done before?
They've always stood in at least one constituency I think. This time round they are standing a candidate in two constituencies in the Lothian region, Edinburgh Central and Edinburgh Northern and Leith, but not the other six.
Don't know about other regions.
Patrick Harvie normally stands in Edinburgh Kelvin.
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
They did the same with the water rights, and that got sorted out. It's like everything else Tesla does - they take risks in order to move fast. Sometimes it doesn't work; most of the time it does.
But it's a reasonable assumption they'd have built it in the UK had we not Brexited.
From the look if it they still are planning to build in the UK, despite Brexit.
Not sure why you'd assume they'd build in the UK first had we not Brexited. Germany is the car manufacturing hub of Europe so they might rightly have assumed either way that Germany was the best place to invest in first. As it happens it looks like they're now planning to build in the UK anyway so what are you worrying about?
I thought the UK had never been a serious contender for a Tesla Gigafactory.
The irony is that Brexit and the trade deal the EU negotiated has possibly made the UK more rather than less attractive for investment.
Due to their high value the EU essentially insisted that in order to count cars here the batteries need to be made here, they can't be imported even from countries the EU has free trade deals with. That's perversely given a major incentive to get batteries built here and once batteries are getting built here there's more incentive to get cars built here. Virtuous circle.
Is it the case that the Scottish Greens are only fielding Regional List Candidates?
Am I correct that this is what they have done before?
No and No
Their contesting Edinburgh Central in 2016 let Ruth Davidson come through the middle, which may be thought of as a good or a bad thing depending on your pov.
It may be thought of as a good thing this time. It would keep Angus Robertson out, and serve the SNP leadership right for their treatment of Joanna Cherry.
I can't think of any reason good enough to vote Tory with possible exception of the only other candidate being Farage or worse.
Is it the case that the Scottish Greens are only fielding Regional List Candidates?
Am I correct that this is what they have done before?
They've always stood in at least one constituency I think. This time round they are standing a candidate in two constituencies in the Lothian region, Edinburgh Central and Edinburgh Northern and Leith, but not the other six.
Don't know about other regions.
Edinburgh Greens site is still showing Andy Wightman as standing for them in one of the Edinburgh seats which shows an admirable conservation of energy when it comes to editing if nothing else.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
Is it just me that is wondering if this was the first time he had acted on his urges?
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
Is it just me that is wondering if this was the first time he had acted on his urges?
I also wondered this, if it is indeed as reported.
On 2 occasions male passengers asked this lady to move because she was a woman. She dug her heels in and refused. EasyJet bribed her to move (albeit with just a hot drink) and she sues them because they didn’t back her up but sought conflict resolution.
If the men were uncomfortable then EasyJet could have found somewhere for them to move to. Absolutely shouldn't be down to the woman to make way.
I agree in principle that would be better (and that’s what they did on one occasion).
On the other they asked her to move 2 rows forward and gave her a hot drink for free.
The cabin crew are in a situation where two men are being unreasonable, an ok solution is available and they compensated the woman for moving.
I’m generally of the views that a reasonable solution given the facts on the ground and the pressure they are under to hit departure times.
There should have been give and take I agree, but in the end what wasn't done was to say to the men, these are the arrangements, if you don't like it, find another carrier.
I agree, although that would have been religious discrimination
FFS we are talking about someone being asked to move two rows!
Illegally because she was a woman.
Its not OK to harrass people and expect them to move just because they're a woman.
Your religious freedom applies to yourself and yourself alone. It does not apply to getting others to bend to your beliefs. If you want to practice your religion then do so in your own temple, don't expect others to bow down before you.
The other option is that if you care who is sitting next to you then you book out the seats on either side. Otherwise, you get what you're given.
The attendants could have asked the men if they were willing to move. If so, ask over PA system whether there are people willing to swap with them. If not, then they stay put or get off.
I have to say, I really feel for the boyfriend in all of this, he must be going out of his mind becuase if he's anything like me he will have told her her to get an Uber or wait there at her friend's so he could escort her home. I'm not sure I could live with myself in that scenario knowing that I should have made the extra effort of walking up to meet my wife so we could walk back home together and she'd still be alive.
Obviously in the road not taken you never know what would have happened but that's what I'd be thinking about, and tbh, it's what I am thinking about with all the times my wife has walked home from West Hampstead station and I either couldn't be bothered to walk out to meet her or she refused my offer.
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
They did the same with the water rights, and that got sorted out. It's like everything else Tesla does - they take risks in order to move fast. Sometimes it doesn't work; most of the time it does.
But it's a reasonable assumption they'd have built it in the UK had we not Brexited.
From the look if it they still are planning to build in the UK, despite Brexit.
Not sure why you'd assume they'd build in the UK first had we not Brexited. Germany is the car manufacturing hub of Europe so they might rightly have assumed either way that Germany was the best place to invest in first. As it happens it looks like they're now planning to build in the UK anyway so what are you worrying about?
Language, culture, ease of planning - I think it's a reasonable assumption.
As for a UK plant, for now it remains speculative, I think ?
This just serves to show how weird Twitter is: anyone can commit a rape, of course - just as anyone can commit a murder.
If the point is that every woman thinks every man is a credible prospective assailant, then I think that's just crazy. You can't live your life like that.
It'd be like me assuming every woman was out to clean me out, or every business trying to swindle me. You should be savvy, of course, but you have to give people the benefit of the doubt.
In the UK a woman can't commit a rape (*), as it is defined in law as 'penetration with a penis' . Sexual Offences Act 2003.
* Ignoring ragged category edges around transwomen who retain a penis.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
You have missed the point I was making. I am absolutely NOT saying that catcalling develops into abduction / rape / murder. However it does two things that are problematic.
1. It puts women on edge. All women that I know - ALL of them - are openly talking about how they have had moments of fear. The man walking in lockstep behind them. The figure in the shadows. The catcalling from "lads". To name a few of the "I didn't know" or "its just a bit of fun" actions from men - likely unwitting in the case of walking behind - that make women fear for their safety. Stop the "bit of fun" catcalling and we stop subjecting half the population to harassment and fear.
2. It provides cover for the genuine lunatics. Odd behaviour towards women is less visible when a larger minority think women are totty for them to play with. If the catcalling and sexual harassment and objectifying stops because in itself the behaviour is Wrong, it makes the real lunatics easier to spot with their far darker views.
Well, the Met Police clearly fucked up, didn't they?
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
They did the same with the water rights, and that got sorted out. It's like everything else Tesla does - they take risks in order to move fast. Sometimes it doesn't work; most of the time it does.
But it's a reasonable assumption they'd have built it in the UK had we not Brexited.
From the look if it they still are planning to build in the UK, despite Brexit.
Not sure why you'd assume they'd build in the UK first had we not Brexited. Germany is the car manufacturing hub of Europe so they might rightly have assumed either way that Germany was the best place to invest in first. As it happens it looks like they're now planning to build in the UK anyway so what are you worrying about?
I thought the UK had never been a serious contender for a Tesla Gigafactory.
Under the trade terms with the EU it makes a lot of sense because the UK can then be used as a domestic export base for the EU under rules of origin and for exports to CPTPP countries as well based on similar rules within that trade body.
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
They did the same with the water rights, and that got sorted out. It's like everything else Tesla does - they take risks in order to move fast. Sometimes it doesn't work; most of the time it does.
But it's a reasonable assumption they'd have built it in the UK had we not Brexited.
From the look if it they still are planning to build in the UK, despite Brexit.
Not sure why you'd assume they'd build in the UK first had we not Brexited. Germany is the car manufacturing hub of Europe so they might rightly have assumed either way that Germany was the best place to invest in first. As it happens it looks like they're now planning to build in the UK anyway so what are you worrying about?
Language, culture, ease of planning - I think it's a reasonable assumption.
As for a UK plant, for now it remains speculative, I think ?
Speculative but Tesla are said to be looking for large plots of land, no reason to do that other than for a gigafactory.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
You have missed the point I was making. I am absolutely NOT saying that catcalling develops into abduction / rape / murder. However it does two things that are problematic.
1. It puts women on edge. All women that I know - ALL of them - are openly talking about how they have had moments of fear. The man walking in lockstep behind them. The figure in the shadows. The catcalling from "lads". To name a few of the "I didn't know" or "its just a bit of fun" actions from men - likely unwitting in the case of walking behind - that make women fear for their safety. Stop the "bit of fun" catcalling and we stop subjecting half the population to harassment and fear.
2. It provides cover for the genuine lunatics. Odd behaviour towards women is less visible when a larger minority think women are totty for them to play with. If the catcalling and sexual harassment and objectifying stops because in itself the behaviour is Wrong, it makes the real lunatics easier to spot with their far darker views.
Well, the Met Police clearly fucked up, didn't they?
Just a bit.
It must be indicative of something that they charged the office with indecent exposure alongside murder. That doesn’t come out of nowhere. I bet we find he had a history leading up to this, which must somehow have remained hidden (at least officially) from the MET.
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
They did the same with the water rights, and that got sorted out. It's like everything else Tesla does - they take risks in order to move fast. Sometimes it doesn't work; most of the time it does.
But it's a reasonable assumption they'd have built it in the UK had we not Brexited.
From the look if it they still are planning to build in the UK, despite Brexit.
Not sure why you'd assume they'd build in the UK first had we not Brexited. Germany is the car manufacturing hub of Europe so they might rightly have assumed either way that Germany was the best place to invest in first. As it happens it looks like they're now planning to build in the UK anyway so what are you worrying about?
I thought the UK had never been a serious contender for a Tesla Gigafactory.
Under the trade terms with the EU it makes a lot of sense because the UK can then be used as a domestic export base for the EU under rules of origin and for exports to CPTPP countries as well based on similar rules within that trade body.
Yes that was what I was just saying. The EU deal and Truss's deals mean the UK is now arguably more not less attractive for investment. Especially for batteries etc too which is where much of the real value is.
Tesla seem to have spotted this opportunity. Fantastic if so.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
Is not objectifying women "woke"? Is not making sexual comments at women "woke"? Is not catcalling and shaming women because of how they look "woke"?
If he knows there are different ways it makes his original comments all the stupider. Why admit to having been an idiot?
You cannot substitute your original point with the one you wish you had made and expect no one to notice or mock you for doing so.
So the UK was first mover, invested first and bought up the supply first investing in and building up capacity that will ultimately be used by others too . . . and he's acting like that's a ban?
I thought it was a stereotype that only Brits got the concept of queues.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
Is not objectifying women "woke"? Is not making sexual comments at women "woke"? Is not catcalling and shaming women because of how they look "woke"?
You really do say the stupidest things at times.
No.
Objectifying women, making inappropriate sexual comments, catcalling and shaming women is "sexist".
"Sexism" is wrong by anyone who does it. Nothing to do with "woke".
Nicola Sturgeon / SNP conspiracy theory. They don’t actually want independence because after indy they may lose their cosy jobs and pensions. Therefore they have been taking desperate measures to ensure that, whilst they remain the largest party, they don’t win an overall majority. I can think of any other reason for their behaviour over the past weeks.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
You have missed the point I was making. I am absolutely NOT saying that catcalling develops into abduction / rape / murder. However it does two things that are problematic.
1. It puts women on edge. All women that I know - ALL of them - are openly talking about how they have had moments of fear. The man walking in lockstep behind them. The figure in the shadows. The catcalling from "lads". To name a few of the "I didn't know" or "its just a bit of fun" actions from men - likely unwitting in the case of walking behind - that make women fear for their safety. Stop the "bit of fun" catcalling and we stop subjecting half the population to harassment and fear.
2. It provides cover for the genuine lunatics. Odd behaviour towards women is less visible when a larger minority think women are totty for them to play with. If the catcalling and sexual harassment and objectifying stops because in itself the behaviour is Wrong, it makes the real lunatics easier to spot with their far darker views.
Well, the Met Police clearly fucked up, didn't they?
Just a bit.
It must be indicative of something that they charged the office with indecent exposure alongside murder. That doesn’t come out of nowhere. I bet we find he had a history leading up to this, which must somehow have remained hidden (at least officially) from the MET.
Point of order. He hasn't been charged. That said, I found the exposure bit curious too. I mean. Why even mention it at this stage?
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
What you are referring to isn't "woke" it is "sexism".
Sexism needs to stop. Ascribing sexism to all men is . . . sexist. Sexism belongs to the individuals who engage in it, not men.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
What you are referring to isn't "woke" it is "sexism".
Sexism needs to stop. Ascribing sexism to all men is . . . sexist. Sexism belongs to the individuals who engage in it, not men.
Of course if someone is "awake" to social injustice then they should be aware of sexism.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
You have missed the point I was making. I am absolutely NOT saying that catcalling develops into abduction / rape / murder. However it does two things that are problematic.
1. It puts women on edge. All women that I know - ALL of them - are openly talking about how they have had moments of fear. The man walking in lockstep behind them. The figure in the shadows. The catcalling from "lads". To name a few of the "I didn't know" or "its just a bit of fun" actions from men - likely unwitting in the case of walking behind - that make women fear for their safety. Stop the "bit of fun" catcalling and we stop subjecting half the population to harassment and fear.
2. It provides cover for the genuine lunatics. Odd behaviour towards women is less visible when a larger minority think women are totty for them to play with. If the catcalling and sexual harassment and objectifying stops because in itself the behaviour is Wrong, it makes the real lunatics easier to spot with their far darker views.
Well, the Met Police clearly fucked up, didn't they?
Just a bit.
It must be indicative of something that they charged the office with indecent exposure alongside murder. That doesn’t come out of nowhere. I bet we find he had a history leading up to this, which must somehow have remained hidden (at least officially) from the MET.
Point of order. He hasn't been charged. That said, I found the exposure bit curious too. I mean. Why even mention it at this stage?
Good point.
But yes, I can’t imagine why they would have thrown extra reason for arrest in unless there was good reason - suspicion of murder is clearly enough by itself to arrest someone. (Is there a rule about not asking questions about other crimes under PACE? Can you only quiz a suspect on the crimes they’ve been arrested for?)
I'd have far more confidence in this if we were keeping corporation tax competitive, creating generous investment allowances, driving well-funded R&D, supporting adult education/apprenticeships, leading regulatory reform and cutting employer's NI rates so we were as attractive as a mother-f-er.
But, it feels like mixed messages to me at present.
Don't know who the Tories could find to stand at such late notice but he needs to be withdrawn as a candidate. He's such a massive c***. Completely vindicates my decision to not vote for him and refusal of helping out the campaign. Think I might go out and campaign for the Lib Dem at this rate.
Mr. kinabalu, men are a majority of violent crime victims.
One problem with the blanket approach of 'men need to change' is that it's happy to acknowledge the fact that perpetrators of violent crimes (including rape) are likely to be men but there's scant regard given to the fact men are likelier to be victims of (non-sexual) violent crime.
Most people are happy to consider men potential criminals but more reluctant to see them as potential victims (this isn't as bad as it was, but used to be atrocious with regards to domestic abuse).
The dishing out of serious physical violence is an overwhelmingly male preserve, by and large, and the victims of it are more often men than women. Yes. Not sure how that - or your good point about male victims of domestic abuse - relates to my post. I was simply explaining the context of the wider debate triggered by this latest and extreme example of male violence against women - and reassuring you that there is no inference that you or I or men in general are in the specific habit of impersonating police officers as a means of stalking women. You seemed to think this was what was being suggested and I was keen to correct that.
It seems so many people haven't learned the lessons from the Christopher Jefferies experience.
I think the difference is that the police located the body a long way from where she went missing. They didn't do that without working out how she ended up there.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
What you are referring to isn't "woke" it is "sexism".
Sexism needs to stop. Ascribing sexism to all men is . . . sexist. Sexism belongs to the individuals who engage in it, not men.
Of course if someone is "awake" to social injustice then they should be aware of sexism.
Absolutely and they should not engage in sexism by making sweeping blanket statements about either men or women. To do so is sexist.
It seems so many people haven't learned the lessons from the Christopher Jefferies experience.
I think we can safely say he's either guilty or in line for a massive payout at this point.
Given where they (apparently) found the body, he’s either guilty as sin or the unluckiest officer in the MET to be in the wrong place at the wrong time /twice/ over. The latter is of course still possible & as the Christopher Jefferies incident demonstrates so clearly we absolutely need to keep it in mind. There are probably a number of people who were in both S.London at the relevant times & were then around Ashford. Mere location is not enough to assume guilt.
It seems so many people haven't learned the lessons from the Christopher Jefferies experience.
I think the difference is that the police located the body a long way from where she went missing. They didn't do that without working out how she ended up there.
Indeed but he’s entitled to a presumption of innocence.
How sick are people going to feel if he gets off due to a tainted jury pool?
Don't know who the Tories could find to stand at such late notice but he needs to be withdrawn as a candidate. He's such a massive c***. Completely vindicates my decision to not vote for him and refusal of helping out the campaign. Think I might go out and campaign for the Lib Dem at this rate.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
What you are referring to isn't "woke" it is "sexism".
Sexism needs to stop. Ascribing sexism to all men is . . . sexist. Sexism belongs to the individuals who engage in it, not men.
Of course if someone is "awake" to social injustice then they should be aware of sexism.
Absolutely and they should not engage in sexism by making sweeping blanket statements about either men or women. To do so is sexist.
Something to think about: it is clearly the case that not all men are responsible for the sexual harassment that many women experience, yet for most of the women in question it is nevertheless always men doing it.
From their point of view, it looks an awful lot like men are the problem. Show a little empathy before you wade in with your "notallmen" sledgehammer?
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
Is not objectifying women "woke"? Is not making sexual comments at women "woke"? Is not catcalling and shaming women because of how they look "woke"?
You really do say the stupidest things at times.
I am sure I do, but I don't think the above is one of them.
Faced with the actions of a very sick individual (not a medical diagnosis, just a reflection on what he's done) we already have people agitating for a broad campaign espousing (and presumably enforcing) their values - ones which they just happened to be in favour of anyway. In this context it's worth noting that anyone in the position of this police officer is at the vanguard of these values being espoused and enforced, and it doesn't seem to have made a blind bit of difference.
I did not defend or commend any of the behaviours which you list.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
Most police officers of my acquaintance (particularly those aged 40s or above) are not what I would call 'woke'!
Not sure how we got a discussion of 'woke' though. What RP describes is nothing to do with being 'woke' it's to do with blatant sexism/mysogyny and not turning a blind eye to it.
Guido should get lawyers involved. Hopeless case, attacking the leadership of the Labour Party, guaranteed to get funding from Unite...
It seems that they republished the tweet with a link one minute after the complaint.
Though I think they were being slow, and Guido jumped in for fun.
No that Tweeter whomever it is has form. They're constantly doing this and I'm glad they're getting called out on it.
The original tweet credits Guido. Then continues the thread by directly retweeting their story.
The retweeting of the story came after Guido replied.
This "Politics for all" account is constantly Tweeting out stories without linking to the original source. Quite a few times now a Tweet has been put here by them and the original source is not linked to, it is infuriating. I'm glad they linked to the original source after they were called out and if in future they link to the original source immediately that would be good.
Don't know who the Tories could find to stand at such late notice but he needs to be withdrawn as a candidate. He's such a massive c***. Completely vindicates my decision to not vote for him and refusal of helping out the campaign. Think I might go out and campaign for the Lib Dem at this rate.
Ask Rory to come back to the Tory party?
Surely have Rory run in 2024 rather than waste his shot now.
Don't know who the Tories could find to stand at such late notice but he needs to be withdrawn as a candidate. He's such a massive c***. Completely vindicates my decision to not vote for him and refusal of helping out the campaign. Think I might go out and campaign for the Lib Dem at this rate.
He is alright, no Tory is going to win London at the moment.
It would be far more damaging in the current climate if the Tories were to withdraw their BAME candidate and replace him with a white candidate who would still lose to Khan anyway
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
They did the same with the water rights, and that got sorted out. It's like everything else Tesla does - they take risks in order to move fast. Sometimes it doesn't work; most of the time it does.
But it's a reasonable assumption they'd have built it in the UK had we not Brexited.
From the look if it they still are planning to build in the UK, despite Brexit.
Not sure why you'd assume they'd build in the UK first had we not Brexited. Germany is the car manufacturing hub of Europe so they might rightly have assumed either way that Germany was the best place to invest in first. As it happens it looks like they're now planning to build in the UK anyway so what are you worrying about?
I thought the UK had never been a serious contender for a Tesla Gigafactory.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
What you are referring to isn't "woke" it is "sexism".
Sexism needs to stop. Ascribing sexism to all men is . . . sexist. Sexism belongs to the individuals who engage in it, not men.
Of course if someone is "awake" to social injustice then they should be aware of sexism.
Absolutely and they should not engage in sexism by making sweeping blanket statements about either men or women. To do so is sexist.
Something to think about: it is clearly the case that not all men are responsible for the sexual harassment that many women experience, yet for most of the women in question it is nevertheless always men doing it.
From their point of view, it looks an awful lot like men are the problem. Show a little empathy before you wade in with your "notallmen" sledgehammer?
Sorry but no. I do have empathy and I call out the sexists, but by moving away from calling out sexism and going to calling out everyone instead moves the onus away from the sexists who are the problem.
I would do the same with any group. If someone used a terrorist attack to attack all Muslims I'd view that as inappropriate - wouldn't you?
Call out sexists yes. Blame groups for the actions of individuals? No that is "-ism" and "-ism" is wrong.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
They did the same with the water rights, and that got sorted out. It's like everything else Tesla does - they take risks in order to move fast. Sometimes it doesn't work; most of the time it does.
But it's a reasonable assumption they'd have built it in the UK had we not Brexited.
From the look if it they still are planning to build in the UK, despite Brexit.
Not sure why you'd assume they'd build in the UK first had we not Brexited. Germany is the car manufacturing hub of Europe so they might rightly have assumed either way that Germany was the best place to invest in first. As it happens it looks like they're now planning to build in the UK anyway so what are you worrying about?
I thought the UK had never been a serious contender for a Tesla Gigafactory.
No he doesn't. Despite the attempted spin of a very partisan website with little more credibility than the Canary, what he actually says he never considered Britain because of Brexit and chose Germany for their own reasons.
That does not say he was considering Britain until Brexit.
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
They did the same with the water rights, and that got sorted out. It's like everything else Tesla does - they take risks in order to move fast. Sometimes it doesn't work; most of the time it does.
But it's a reasonable assumption they'd have built it in the UK had we not Brexited.
From the look if it they still are planning to build in the UK, despite Brexit.
Not sure why you'd assume they'd build in the UK first had we not Brexited. Germany is the car manufacturing hub of Europe so they might rightly have assumed either way that Germany was the best place to invest in first. As it happens it looks like they're now planning to build in the UK anyway so what are you worrying about?
I thought the UK had never been a serious contender for a Tesla Gigafactory.
Under the trade terms with the EU it makes a lot of sense because the UK can then be used as a domestic export base for the EU under rules of origin and for exports to CPTPP countries as well based on similar rules within that trade body.
Yes that was what I was just saying. The EU deal and Truss's deals mean the UK is now arguably more not less attractive for investment. Especially for batteries etc too which is where much of the real value is.
Tesla seem to have spotted this opportunity. Fantastic if so.
There will be Tesla Gigafactories everywhere and the UK, hell even England, is quite a big market. I'd expect India to get one before us.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
What you are referring to isn't "woke" it is "sexism".
Sexism needs to stop. Ascribing sexism to all men is . . . sexist. Sexism belongs to the individuals who engage in it, not men.
Of course if someone is "awake" to social injustice then they should be aware of sexism.
Absolutely and they should not engage in sexism by making sweeping blanket statements about either men or women. To do so is sexist.
Something to think about: it is clearly the case that not all men are responsible for the sexual harassment that many women experience, yet for most of the women in question it is nevertheless always men doing it.
From their point of view, it looks an awful lot like men are the problem. Show a little empathy before you wade in with your "notallmen" sledgehammer?
Pretty much this. The very nature of both biology and social history means us as men can come across as threatening and harmful, even if we aren't, and that's before you get onto the arseholes, or sadly worse than arsehole.
We do need to look at our behaviour and think if we can be better.
Jesus Christ. Tory central office needs to shut him up.
If he feels people are not trying hard enough for him, which they probably are't as everyone knows he is going to lose, and lose big, it might be his way of punishing central office.
There's a woman on the TV now advising people to get to know their local Police Officer. I don't think I've seen a policeman, certainly on foot, round here for several years. They come when the ATM's stolen, that's about it.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
Yes, I'm not sure that a psychopath rapist/murderer really cares about catcalling or seeks to justify their horrific crimes because they heard some fat bloke on scaffolding catcall women.
The question is a wider one - is the objectification and belittlement of women a factor in the prevalence of sexual and other violent crime against them?
No-one is seeking to explain this specific case. There'll be a criminal trial for that.
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
They did the same with the water rights, and that got sorted out. It's like everything else Tesla does - they take risks in order to move fast. Sometimes it doesn't work; most of the time it does.
But it's a reasonable assumption they'd have built it in the UK had we not Brexited.
From the look if it they still are planning to build in the UK, despite Brexit.
Not sure why you'd assume they'd build in the UK first had we not Brexited. Germany is the car manufacturing hub of Europe so they might rightly have assumed either way that Germany was the best place to invest in first. As it happens it looks like they're now planning to build in the UK anyway so what are you worrying about?
I thought the UK had never been a serious contender for a Tesla Gigafactory.
There's a woman on the TV now advising people to get to know their local Police Officer. I don't think I've seen a policeman, certainly on foot, round here for several years. They come when the ATM's stolen, that's about it.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
There are a number of issues with this line of argument.
First, most men do neither of those things - neither the serious assault, nor the low-level harrassment - and so are already making a positive contribution to common decency. Those who persist in doing those things are unlikely to be amenable to sweet reason from the decent majority. But by all means, we should beef up law enforcement substantially to stop and punish those who break the law.
Second, the argument that low-level behaviours create a 'psychological space' for serious crime is problematic in multiple ways. To begin with, is it even true that their elimination would prevent higher-level crimes? Are there no murders in politically-correct societies? It seems unlikely. Next, the idea that innocent, law-abiding members of a group with immutable characteristics are responsible for the criminals in that group is generally considered an unacceptable approach, especially on the left. Was it acceptable when Donald Trump blamed entire racial groups for their criminal elements - for creating a fertile 'psychological space' for their crimes, if you will? If not, why is it acceptable to replicate that Trumpian approach with a group that is linked only by their membership of the same sex?
None of this really follows, or is consistent with other avowed principles. All it means is that men are not a group in political favour on the left, and so discrimination against them is not only permitted, but encouraged. Which is hardly either just or helpful.
There's a woman on the TV now advising people to get to know their local Police Officer. I don't think I've seen a policeman, certainly on foot, round here for several years. They come when the ATM's stolen, that's about it.
I never see Police on foot outside of city centres.
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
They did the same with the water rights, and that got sorted out. It's like everything else Tesla does - they take risks in order to move fast. Sometimes it doesn't work; most of the time it does.
But it's a reasonable assumption they'd have built it in the UK had we not Brexited.
From the look if it they still are planning to build in the UK, despite Brexit.
Not sure why you'd assume they'd build in the UK first had we not Brexited. Germany is the car manufacturing hub of Europe so they might rightly have assumed either way that Germany was the best place to invest in first. As it happens it looks like they're now planning to build in the UK anyway so what are you worrying about?
I thought the UK had never been a serious contender for a Tesla Gigafactory.
"In an interview with Auto Express, Musk said he didn't consider the UK as an option for Tesla's European Gigafactory because of Brexit uncertainty."
Yes "Last year, Tesla chose a site near Berlin in Germany to locate its first European factory, instead of a proposed location in north-east England. Musk said the company chose Brandenburg over the Tees Valley due to “Brexit uncertainty”.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
What you are referring to isn't "woke" it is "sexism".
Sexism needs to stop. Ascribing sexism to all men is . . . sexist. Sexism belongs to the individuals who engage in it, not men.
Of course if someone is "awake" to social injustice then they should be aware of sexism.
Absolutely and they should not engage in sexism by making sweeping blanket statements about either men or women. To do so is sexist.
Something to think about: it is clearly the case that not all men are responsible for the sexual harassment that many women experience, yet for most of the women in question it is nevertheless always men doing it.
From their point of view, it looks an awful lot like men are the problem. Show a little empathy before you wade in with your "notallmen" sledgehammer?
Sorry but no. I do have empathy and I call out the sexists, but by moving away from calling out sexism and going to calling out everyone instead moves the onus away from the sexists who are the problem.
I would do the same with any group. If someone used a terrorist attack to attack all Muslims I'd view that as inappropriate - wouldn't you?
Call out sexists yes. Blame groups for the actions of individuals? No that is "-ism" and "-ism" is wrong.
I'm waiting for the Guardian piece fearing a backlash against men.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
Is not objectifying women "woke"? Is not making sexual comments at women "woke"? Is not catcalling and shaming women because of how they look "woke"?
You really do say the stupidest things at times.
I am sure I do, but I don't think the above is one of them.
Faced with the actions of a very sick individual (not a medical diagnosis, just a reflection on what he's done) we already have people agitating for a broad campaign espousing (and presumably enforcing) their values - ones which they just happened to be in favour of anyway. In this context it's worth noting that anyone in the position of this police officer is at the vanguard of these values being espoused and enforced, and it doesn't seem to have made a blind bit of difference.
I did not defend or commend any of the behaviours which you list.
The "values" that we are espousing are simple. Not objectifying women. Not sexually harassing women. Not catcalling and shaming women. Why are you against this?
If you think this is a culture war issue then fine. You are defending a culture where women live in fear.
There's a woman on the TV now advising people to get to know their local Police Officer. I don't think I've seen a policeman, certainly on foot, round here for several years. They come when the ATM's stolen, that's about it.
I never see Police on foot outside of city centres.
I see police officers on foot in towns, not in the centre. They just fade into the background though.
Not in a city centre, I was in a very minor car accident a few years ago where a vehicle hit me from behind, coincidentally right next to a lone police officer walking on foot. He heard the collision and just calmly sauntered over to us and checked we both had insurance etc and that we exchanged details.
The damage was so minor we chose to settle it away from the insurance company anyway but it was odd to have a police officer walking right next us at the time it happened.
A tale of two COVID waves - showing how test, track & trace, can work.
Main differences between the two waves - first wave 13 deaths, second wave 1 (so far, sole remaining positive COVID case is in hospital). Largely because oldies/care homes already had been jabbed. Also first wave first case identified on March 9th, lockdown introduced 10 days later. Second wave lockdown introduced day after source-unknown cluster identified. Additionally testing massively ramped up - to equivalent UK capacity of 1.5 - 2.0 million a day - this led to identification of 74% of the positive cases directly, slowing the spread (many of them were asymptomatic, but still infectious) - net result is although more infectious/deadly B.117 variant in second wave spread faster (whole households infected, vs individual members first time round) wave ended faster in 35 days vs 52.
Other factors common to both waves - rigorously enforced quarantine and fines up to £10,000 for breaches - notably far fewer in the second wave.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
What you are referring to isn't "woke" it is "sexism".
Sexism needs to stop. Ascribing sexism to all men is . . . sexist. Sexism belongs to the individuals who engage in it, not men.
Of course if someone is "awake" to social injustice then they should be aware of sexism.
Absolutely and they should not engage in sexism by making sweeping blanket statements about either men or women. To do so is sexist.
Something to think about: it is clearly the case that not all men are responsible for the sexual harassment that many women experience, yet for most of the women in question it is nevertheless always men doing it.
From their point of view, it looks an awful lot like men are the problem. Show a little empathy before you wade in with your "notallmen" sledgehammer?
Sorry but no. I do have empathy and I call out the sexists, but by moving away from calling out sexism and going to calling out everyone instead moves the onus away from the sexists who are the problem.
I would do the same with any group. If someone used a terrorist attack to attack all Muslims I'd view that as inappropriate - wouldn't you?
Call out sexists yes. Blame groups for the actions of individuals? No that is "-ism" and "-ism" is wrong.
I agree - the problem is that far too many men do not call out sexists or misogynists.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
What you are referring to isn't "woke" it is "sexism".
Sexism needs to stop. Ascribing sexism to all men is . . . sexist. Sexism belongs to the individuals who engage in it, not men.
Of course if someone is "awake" to social injustice then they should be aware of sexism.
Absolutely and they should not engage in sexism by making sweeping blanket statements about either men or women. To do so is sexist.
Something to think about: it is clearly the case that not all men are responsible for the sexual harassment that many women experience, yet for most of the women in question it is nevertheless always men doing it.
From their point of view, it looks an awful lot like men are the problem. Show a little empathy before you wade in with your "notallmen" sledgehammer?
Sorry but no. I do have empathy and I call out the sexists, but by moving away from calling out sexism and going to calling out everyone instead moves the onus away from the sexists who are the problem.
I would do the same with any group. If someone used a terrorist attack to attack all Muslims I'd view that as inappropriate - wouldn't you?
Call out sexists yes. Blame groups for the actions of individuals? No that is "-ism" and "-ism" is wrong.
I agree - the problem is that far too many men do not call out sexists or misogynists.
And do you think law-abiding Muslims do enough to counter Islamic terrorism?
Apropos of absolutely nothing but the CPS really don't inspire confidence.
A judge has halted the sex abuse trial of a former Labour peer, accusing prosecutors of "sabotaging" proceedings.
The trial of Lord Ahmed, 63, who appeared at Sheffield Crown Court under his real name, Nazir Ahmed, was stopped on 22 February.
Judge Jeremy Richardson QC ruled all proceedings against Lord Ahmed should stop due to prosecution errors.
The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) plans to appeal against the decision.
Lord Ahmed went on trial in February accused of two counts of attempting to rape a girl under 16, indecent assault of a boy under 14 and raping a boy under 16.
The offences, which he denied, were said to date from the 1970s when he was a teenager.
Judge Richardson ordered a permanent stay be placed on proceedings, bringing the prosecution to a halt, on Monday.
He said he was "shocked and appalled" by prosecutors' disclosure of evidence after he found the defence was still being supplied with new information during trial.
He said this was despite the allegations dating back almost 50 years, hearings being postponed for a year due to the coronavirus pandemic, and the allegations being made five years ago.
"This disgraceful situation has sabotaged this trial and caused it to abort. I do not use this adjective lightly," he said.
'Enough was enough' Judge Richardson said he was "extremely concerned" about apparent failures by the police to follow up reasonable lines of inquiry, saying the case had been handled "as if we're in a different era".
Despite the prosecution's "massive and fundamental failure" to stick to disclosure rules, he said, it was normal to let them "put it right and have another go".
But he had decided to take the unusual course of action for the first time in his career due to a number of factors, he said, including the weakness of the case.
He said the "calamity" had gone from "bad to worse" and he had come to the conclusion that "enough was enough".
Judge Richardson said that it was not a "not guilty" verdict and that the complainants "may feel cheated."
Prosecutors had "blown this case apart", he said, and forcing him to put a stop to the "the agony of it continuing".
A CPS spokesperson said it would seek another trial if its appeal succeeded.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
What you are referring to isn't "woke" it is "sexism".
Sexism needs to stop. Ascribing sexism to all men is . . . sexist. Sexism belongs to the individuals who engage in it, not men.
Of course if someone is "awake" to social injustice then they should be aware of sexism.
Absolutely and they should not engage in sexism by making sweeping blanket statements about either men or women. To do so is sexist.
Something to think about: it is clearly the case that not all men are responsible for the sexual harassment that many women experience, yet for most of the women in question it is nevertheless always men doing it.
From their point of view, it looks an awful lot like men are the problem. Show a little empathy before you wade in with your "notallmen" sledgehammer?
Sorry but no. I do have empathy and I call out the sexists, but by moving away from calling out sexism and going to calling out everyone instead moves the onus away from the sexists who are the problem.
I would do the same with any group. If someone used a terrorist attack to attack all Muslims I'd view that as inappropriate - wouldn't you?
Call out sexists yes. Blame groups for the actions of individuals? No that is "-ism" and "-ism" is wrong.
I agree - the problem is that far too many men do not call out sexists or misogynists.
And do you think law-abiding Muslims do enough to counter Islamic terrorism?
Possibly the most absurd piece of whataboutery I have ever read.
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
They did the same with the water rights, and that got sorted out. It's like everything else Tesla does - they take risks in order to move fast. Sometimes it doesn't work; most of the time it does.
But it's a reasonable assumption they'd have built it in the UK had we not Brexited.
From the look if it they still are planning to build in the UK, despite Brexit.
Not sure why you'd assume they'd build in the UK first had we not Brexited. Germany is the car manufacturing hub of Europe so they might rightly have assumed either way that Germany was the best place to invest in first. As it happens it looks like they're now planning to build in the UK anyway so what are you worrying about?
I thought the UK had never been a serious contender for a Tesla Gigafactory.
No he doesn't. Despite the attempted spin of a very partisan website with little more credibility than the Canary, what he actually says he never considered Britain because of Brexit and chose Germany for their own reasons.
That does not say he was considering Britain until Brexit.
Aiui, the Tesla decision on Germany was made for two reasons:
1 - To access Germany's very strong auto engineering base. 2 - So they could become a "domestic" manufacturer in the eyes of German consumers and compete with BMW/Audi/Mercedes on that basis rather than as an American company.
Basing itself in the UK was never really an option becuase of these two factors.
What has changed for the UK is that the UK is going to be the leading EV consumer market for the next decade because of the net zero pledge and government incentives for people to move to AEVs, the investment environment has changed because of the brexit deal and the proposed CPTPP deal both having rules of origin that encourage manufacturing to be based in the UK to avoid tariffs on EVs and Tesla realising that demand for their cars will be greater than supply even including what has been planned from the Berlin gigafactory so another one on Europe will be required. Building it in the UK which will benefit from a zero tariff/quota deal with the EU and a heavily reduced tariff/quota structure with most of APAC is probably a very big pull factor.
In other news Tesla seem worried about being left behind in the UK market. I do wonder whether they regret picking Berlin now for their European site. Anyway it looks as though Tesla are scouting for land in the UK for an even larger gigafactory than what is under construction in Berlin. It's a shame we're two years late to the party, but it does seem as though the government is finally catching up to future needs of the UK economy, albeit a bit slowly.
I think Tesla have problems in Germany - they started building before permission was granted and it's not gone down well
was the first story google pointed me at but there will be a fair few more as I remember this from last year.
They did the same with the water rights, and that got sorted out. It's like everything else Tesla does - they take risks in order to move fast. Sometimes it doesn't work; most of the time it does.
But it's a reasonable assumption they'd have built it in the UK had we not Brexited.
From the look if it they still are planning to build in the UK, despite Brexit.
Not sure why you'd assume they'd build in the UK first had we not Brexited. Germany is the car manufacturing hub of Europe so they might rightly have assumed either way that Germany was the best place to invest in first. As it happens it looks like they're now planning to build in the UK anyway so what are you worrying about?
I thought the UK had never been a serious contender for a Tesla Gigafactory.
Under the trade terms with the EU it makes a lot of sense because the UK can then be used as a domestic export base for the EU under rules of origin and for exports to CPTPP countries as well based on similar rules within that trade body.
Yes that was what I was just saying. The EU deal and Truss's deals mean the UK is now arguably more not less attractive for investment. Especially for batteries etc too which is where much of the real value is.
Tesla seem to have spotted this opportunity. Fantastic if so.
There will be Tesla Gigafactories everywhere and the UK, hell even England, is quite a big market. I'd expect India to get one before us.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-may-offer-tesla-incentives-for-cheaper-production-costs-than-china-2382093 ...India is ready to offer incentives to ensure Tesla Inc's cost of production would be less than in China if the carmaker commits to making its electric vehicles in the country, Union Minister Nitin Gadkari told Reuters. Gadkari's pitch comes weeks after billionaire Elon Musk's Tesla registered a company in India in a step towards entering the country, possibly as soon as mid-2021. Sources familiar with the matter have said Tesla plans to start by importing and selling its Model 3 electric sedan in India.
"Rather than assembling (the cars) in India they should make the entire product in the country by hiring local vendors. Then we can give higher concessions," Gadkari said in an interview, without giving details of what incentives would be on offer.
"The government will make sure the production cost for Tesla will be the lowest when compared with the world, even China, when they start manufacturing their cars in India. We will assure that," he said....
Don't know who the Tories could find to stand at such late notice but he needs to be withdrawn as a candidate. He's such a massive c***. Completely vindicates my decision to not vote for him and refusal of helping out the campaign. Think I might go out and campaign for the Lib Dem at this rate.
Ask Rory to come back to the Tory party?
Surely have Rory run in 2024 rather than waste his shot now.
We don't know the details of the Everard case - how the police officer allegedly abducted her. It doesn't sound like it is a "normal" abduction / rape / murder case because of this added factor.
I fear that this will allow some men to dismiss it as a one-off. The method of the abduction / rape / murder may be a little unusual but the predilection of a small number of men to prey on women for the purposes of abduction / rape / murder is not.
What can I as a man with a wife and a daughter do about it? I can Speak Out. Nobody is saying "all men are rapists" because we aren't. But go and ask the women in your lives today if they have experienced fear when alone that the man following them, or the figure in the shadows, or the guys "having fun" by staring or making suggesting comments may be the one who preys on them. ALL the women I know have had this. All of them.
So yes, the onus is on the majority of men to stand up for and speak out for the women in their lives. So that the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority stop. So that the tiny tiny minority of lunatics who want to abduct / rape / murder for sport have nowhere to hide.
I think the behaviour that you describe is bad in its own right.
The idea that it has anything to do with psychopathic rapists, though, is utterly absurd.
A counter-argument:
When Jo Cox was murdered by Thomas Mair in the run up to the Brexit vote, do you think his choice of victim was made at random? Of course not: he had been surrounded by increasingly vicious rhetoric that painted Remain MPs as traitors & fifth columnists. Those who spent their time online thundering on about traitorous Remainers clearly had no intention of inciting murder, yet when those words fell on susceptible ears we all know the result.
In a similar fashion, as RochdaleP says: the the "its just a bit of fun" catcallers and starers and lewd comment minority provide cover for those who are at risk of being tipped over the edge onto outright violence towards women. When those individuals find themselves surrounded by men who do those things, the message they hear repeated over and over again is that women are things, objects to be exploited. This is why it’s everybody’s responsibility to push back on that kind behaviour - not just because it’s unpleasant for the targets in and of itself, but also because it is the misogynist swamp in which the violent sociopaths swim - it’s the environment that tells them that their behaviour is OK, even approved of.
Drain the swamp.
No, I don't think Jo Cox was killed at random. She was assassinated. And you may have a point about the circumstances in which it happened.
We don't know the details of what's gone on in the current case, but it's possible (likely?) that this young woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time (though the killer may have identified her as a target before the night in question).
What makes some men behave like this? I don't know, but I'm not sure attributing it to catcalling is particularly helpful.
This man was a 49 year old officer in the MET. During his career, he will have been bathed and basted in PC ideology, and will be highly fluent in woke. The suggestion that in order not to go around abducting people the rest of society needs the same is inapposite to say the least.
You are both (wilfully?) misunderstanding the point I was making.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
What you are referring to isn't "woke" it is "sexism".
Sexism needs to stop. Ascribing sexism to all men is . . . sexist. Sexism belongs to the individuals who engage in it, not men.
Of course if someone is "awake" to social injustice then they should be aware of sexism.
Absolutely and they should not engage in sexism by making sweeping blanket statements about either men or women. To do so is sexist.
Something to think about: it is clearly the case that not all men are responsible for the sexual harassment that many women experience, yet for most of the women in question it is nevertheless always men doing it.
From their point of view, it looks an awful lot like men are the problem. Show a little empathy before you wade in with your "notallmen" sledgehammer?
Sorry but no. I do have empathy and I call out the sexists, but by moving away from calling out sexism and going to calling out everyone instead moves the onus away from the sexists who are the problem.
I would do the same with any group. If someone used a terrorist attack to attack all Muslims I'd view that as inappropriate - wouldn't you?
Call out sexists yes. Blame groups for the actions of individuals? No that is "-ism" and "-ism" is wrong.
I agree - the problem is that far too many men do not call out sexists or misogynists.
And do you think law-abiding Muslims do enough to counter Islamic terrorism?
A fine example of 'whataboutery'. If "law-abiding Muslims" don't "do enough to counter Islamic terrorism" does that mean we should "not call out sexists or misogynists."?
Comments
My girlfriend wont walk on her own late at night, for example, whereas I wouldn't have second thoughts.
If they put it in Hartlepool they might able to get the bloke who puts the floormats in finished Qashqais.
https://electrek.co/2021/03/10/tesla-gigafactory-berlin-pushing-production-soon-despite-precarious-permit-situation/
Sturgeon and others know that if Yes loses Indyref2 then that really is it for a generation, like 40 year long generation.
I think a woman would be *even more* wary though - FWIW, my wife has been assaulted too, although she fought off / shamed off the assailant very admirably.
It's now all about the group, not the individual.
Very glad to hear your wife managed to fight off her attacker though and sorry to hear about your experience.
I guess it just shows our risk profile is formed by our experiences.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/04/business-leaders-condemn-decision-axe-uk-industry-strategy-panel
The backlash over Meghan’s revelations has been too much about feelings and not enough about details and context
David Aaronovitch" [£]
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-one-knows-if-what-was-said-about-archie-was-racist-bgw99tm9n
People are individuals.
https://www.edinburghgreens.org.uk/election/holyrood-2021/
No-one spotted my, er, deliberate mistake that there are nine constituencies in the Lothian region. Tsk.
Due to their high value the EU essentially insisted that in order to count cars here the batteries need to be made here, they can't be imported even from countries the EU has free trade deals with. That's perversely given a major incentive to get batteries built here and once batteries are getting built here there's more incentive to get cars built here. Virtuous circle.
The attendants could have asked the men if they were willing to move. If so, ask over PA system whether there are people willing to swap with them. If not, then they stay put or get off.
Obviously in the road not taken you never know what would have happened but that's what I'd be thinking about, and tbh, it's what I am thinking about with all the times my wife has walked home from West Hampstead station and I either couldn't be bothered to walk out to meet her or she refused my offer.
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1369961818408509442
Credits, splashes Guido's logo all over the tweet
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1369962487890780160
"Cease and desist" from Guido lol
As for a UK plant, for now it remains speculative, I think ?
* Ignoring ragged category edges around transwomen who retain a penis.
Nobody is attributing a murder directly to catcalling. What I (and others) are saying is that the smorgasbord of misogynistic behaviours that many men indulge in is creating the psychological space for some men to think that their more extreme behaviour towards women is OK, even approved of by other men. After all, the thinking goes, if they didn’t approve of it, why didn’t they say anything when I said those things about women down the pub?
Is it really "woke" to suggest that the endless low-grade sexual harrassment of women out on the street needs to stop? I don’t think it’s woke: I think it’s basic common decency. Something that, regardless of our political stance, we surely ought to be able to agree on.
You cannot substitute your original point with the one you wish you had made and expect no one to notice or mock you for doing so.
It must be indicative of something that they charged the office with indecent exposure alongside murder. That doesn’t come out of nowhere. I bet we find he had a history leading up to this, which must somehow have remained hidden (at least officially) from the MET.
Tesla seem to have spotted this opportunity. Fantastic if so.
Is not making sexual comments at women "woke"?
Is not catcalling and shaming women because of how they look "woke"?
You really do say the stupidest things at times.
I thought it was a stereotype that only Brits got the concept of queues.
Objectifying women, making inappropriate sexual comments, catcalling and shaming women is "sexist".
"Sexism" is wrong by anyone who does it. Nothing to do with "woke".
He hasn't been charged.
That said, I found the exposure bit curious too. I mean. Why even mention it at this stage?
Sexism needs to stop. Ascribing sexism to all men is . . . sexist. Sexism belongs to the individuals who engage in it, not men.
On LBC this morning, things got worse as he repeatedly came close to prejudicing the current investigation by jumping to various assumptions
https://order-order.com/2021/03/11/shaun-bailey-doubles-down-on-politicisation-of-sarah-everard-case/
But yes, I can’t imagine why they would have thrown extra reason for arrest in unless there was good reason - suspicion of murder is clearly enough by itself to arrest someone. (Is there a rule about not asking questions about other crimes under PACE? Can you only quiz a suspect on the crimes they’ve been arrested for?)
Though I think they were being slow, and Guido jumped in for fun.
How sick are people going to feel if he gets off due to a tainted jury pool?
From their point of view, it looks an awful lot like men are the problem. Show a little empathy before you wade in with your "notallmen" sledgehammer?
Faced with the actions of a very sick individual (not a medical diagnosis, just a reflection on what he's done) we already have people agitating for a broad campaign espousing (and presumably enforcing) their values - ones which they just happened to be in favour of anyway. In this context it's worth noting that anyone in the position of this police officer is at the vanguard of these values being espoused and enforced, and it doesn't seem to have made a blind bit of difference.
I did not defend or commend any of the behaviours which you list.
Not sure how we got a discussion of 'woke' though. What RP describes is nothing to do with being 'woke' it's to do with blatant sexism/mysogyny and not turning a blind eye to it.
This "Politics for all" account is constantly Tweeting out stories without linking to the original source. Quite a few times now a Tweet has been put here by them and the original source is not linked to, it is infuriating. I'm glad they linked to the original source after they were called out and if in future they link to the original source immediately that would be good.
It would be far more damaging in the current climate if the Tories were to withdraw their BAME candidate and replace him with a white candidate who would still lose to Khan anyway
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-blames-brexit-no-tesla-gigafactory-in-uk-2019-11?r=US&IR=T
I would do the same with any group. If someone used a terrorist attack to attack all Muslims I'd view that as inappropriate - wouldn't you?
Call out sexists yes. Blame groups for the actions of individuals? No that is "-ism" and "-ism" is wrong.
https://slate.com/culture/2021/03/space-jam-2-lola-bunny-redesign-reddit-pepe-le-pew.html
That does not say he was considering Britain until Brexit.
I'd expect India to get one before us.
We do need to look at our behaviour and think if we can be better.
No-one is seeking to explain this specific case. There'll be a criminal trial for that.
"In an interview with Auto Express, Musk said he didn't consider the UK as an option for Tesla's European Gigafactory because of Brexit uncertainty."
"Musk added that his decision was influenced by Germany's strong track record on engineering."
(Though I think there's a bit of politicking in there.)
First, most men do neither of those things - neither the serious assault, nor the low-level harrassment - and so are already making a positive contribution to common decency. Those who persist in doing those things are unlikely to be amenable to sweet reason from the decent majority. But by all means, we should beef up law enforcement substantially to stop and punish those who break the law.
Second, the argument that low-level behaviours create a 'psychological space' for serious crime is problematic in multiple ways. To begin with, is it even true that their elimination would prevent higher-level crimes? Are there no murders in politically-correct societies? It seems unlikely. Next, the idea that innocent, law-abiding members of a group with immutable characteristics are responsible for the criminals in that group is generally considered an unacceptable approach, especially on the left. Was it acceptable when Donald Trump blamed entire racial groups for their criminal elements - for creating a fertile 'psychological space' for their crimes, if you will? If not, why is it acceptable to replicate that Trumpian approach with a group that is linked only by their membership of the same sex?
None of this really follows, or is consistent with other avowed principles. All it means is that men are not a group in political favour on the left, and so discrimination against them is not only permitted, but encouraged. Which is hardly either just or helpful.
"Last year, Tesla chose a site near Berlin in Germany to locate its first European factory, instead of a proposed location in north-east England.
Musk said the company chose Brandenburg over the Tees Valley due to “Brexit uncertainty”.
If you think this is a culture war issue then fine. You are defending a culture where women live in fear.
Not in a city centre, I was in a very minor car accident a few years ago where a vehicle hit me from behind, coincidentally right next to a lone police officer walking on foot. He heard the collision and just calmly sauntered over to us and checked we both had insurance etc and that we exchanged details.
The damage was so minor we chose to settle it away from the insurance company anyway but it was odd to have a police officer walking right next us at the time it happened.
Main differences between the two waves - first wave 13 deaths, second wave 1 (so far, sole remaining positive COVID case is in hospital). Largely because oldies/care homes already had been jabbed. Also first wave first case identified on March 9th, lockdown introduced 10 days later. Second wave lockdown introduced day after source-unknown cluster identified. Additionally testing massively ramped up - to equivalent UK capacity of 1.5 - 2.0 million a day - this led to identification of 74% of the positive cases directly, slowing the spread (many of them were asymptomatic, but still infectious) - net result is although more infectious/deadly B.117 variant in second wave spread faster (whole households infected, vs individual members first time round) wave ended faster in 35 days vs 52.
Other factors common to both waves - rigorously enforced quarantine and fines up to £10,000 for breaches - notably far fewer in the second wave.
A judge has halted the sex abuse trial of a former Labour peer, accusing prosecutors of "sabotaging" proceedings.
The trial of Lord Ahmed, 63, who appeared at Sheffield Crown Court under his real name, Nazir Ahmed, was stopped on 22 February.
Judge Jeremy Richardson QC ruled all proceedings against Lord Ahmed should stop due to prosecution errors.
The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) plans to appeal against the decision.
Lord Ahmed went on trial in February accused of two counts of attempting to rape a girl under 16, indecent assault of a boy under 14 and raping a boy under 16.
The offences, which he denied, were said to date from the 1970s when he was a teenager.
Judge Richardson ordered a permanent stay be placed on proceedings, bringing the prosecution to a halt, on Monday.
He said he was "shocked and appalled" by prosecutors' disclosure of evidence after he found the defence was still being supplied with new information during trial.
He said this was despite the allegations dating back almost 50 years, hearings being postponed for a year due to the coronavirus pandemic, and the allegations being made five years ago.
"This disgraceful situation has sabotaged this trial and caused it to abort. I do not use this adjective lightly," he said.
'Enough was enough'
Judge Richardson said he was "extremely concerned" about apparent failures by the police to follow up reasonable lines of inquiry, saying the case had been handled "as if we're in a different era".
Despite the prosecution's "massive and fundamental failure" to stick to disclosure rules, he said, it was normal to let them "put it right and have another go".
But he had decided to take the unusual course of action for the first time in his career due to a number of factors, he said, including the weakness of the case.
He said the "calamity" had gone from "bad to worse" and he had come to the conclusion that "enough was enough".
Judge Richardson said that it was not a "not guilty" verdict and that the complainants "may feel cheated."
Prosecutors had "blown this case apart", he said, and forcing him to put a stop to the "the agony of it continuing".
A CPS spokesperson said it would seek another trial if its appeal succeeded.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-56338380
1 - To access Germany's very strong auto engineering base.
2 - So they could become a "domestic" manufacturer in the eyes of German consumers and compete with BMW/Audi/Mercedes on that basis rather than as an American company.
Basing itself in the UK was never really an option becuase of these two factors.
What has changed for the UK is that the UK is going to be the leading EV consumer market for the next decade because of the net zero pledge and government incentives for people to move to AEVs, the investment environment has changed because of the brexit deal and the proposed CPTPP deal both having rules of origin that encourage manufacturing to be based in the UK to avoid tariffs on EVs and Tesla realising that demand for their cars will be greater than supply even including what has been planned from the Berlin gigafactory so another one on Europe will be required. Building it in the UK which will benefit from a zero tariff/quota deal with the EU and a heavily reduced tariff/quota structure with most of APAC is probably a very big pull factor.
...India is ready to offer incentives to ensure Tesla Inc's cost of production would be less than in China if the carmaker commits to making its electric vehicles in the country, Union Minister Nitin Gadkari told Reuters.
Gadkari's pitch comes weeks after billionaire Elon Musk's Tesla registered a company in India in a step towards entering the country, possibly as soon as mid-2021. Sources familiar with the matter have said Tesla plans to start by importing and selling its Model 3 electric sedan in India.
"Rather than assembling (the cars) in India they should make the entire product in the country by hiring local vendors. Then we can give higher concessions," Gadkari said in an interview, without giving details of what incentives would be on offer.
"The government will make sure the production cost for Tesla will be the lowest when compared with the world, even China, when they start manufacturing their cars in India. We will assure that," he said....
https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1369947066647126017?s=20
If "law-abiding Muslims" don't "do enough to counter Islamic terrorism" does that mean we should "not call out sexists or misogynists."?