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Given what everybody is talking about it we probably need a thread on this – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,073
    kle4 said:
    I have rarely felt so sorry for anyone as I did for that young Trump lad. He looked so unhappy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    kle4 said:

    Sorry, republicans:

    tps://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1369064154611466244?s=20

    Nobody is going to say otherwise for as long as QEII breathes, republicans understand that.

    An appropriate amount of time after she enters the history records its a different matter.
    Except those naughty Barbadosians. Why can't they be more like the Saint Vincentians?
    Tis the bad Irish seed. Blame Cromwell for it.
    Hmm, but we have him to thank for the crown holding Jamaica.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    rcs1000 said:

    Floater said:
    That's like saying "they bought a house in the Bristol area of London"
    Or like saying "Commonwealth of Britain" instead of "British Commonwealth"?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437

    rcs1000 said:

    Floater said:
    That's like saying "they bought a house in the Bristol area of London"
    Or like saying "Commonwealth of Britain" instead of "British Commonwealth"?
    Or perhaps the Epping Forest part of London.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Bit longer of a delay than would have been hoped, as it got up to 3m a week a month ago. Presumably with Pfizer and others we can go a bit higher, unless 3m is about as many as we can do no matter the supply?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    Democracy worked, they realised they'd made a mistake and they got rid of him.

    A Donald Trump in Russia like Putin gets in office and never leaves it, except via a casket.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    All countries elect idiots at some point. Plenty of US presidents have been idiots. However democracy allows mistakes to be rectified...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,047
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    Would that be the America of Jim Crow and the KKK? Of Operation Condor? Of Mayor Daley and Tammany Hall?

    I lived in America for five formative years. The one thing about America to be certain of is that it contains the worst of mankind as well as the best, incredible beauty as well as trashy ugliness, of high ideas and the lowest common denominator. It has always been both a shining city on the hill, and home of some of the darkest deeds.

    In that, nothing has changed. Indeed I would argue that pretty much all countries have their dark side as well as positive ones. It is just that in America we see more of it.
    The America of the Moon Landings, that's the America I miss. That, for me, was Peak America. Deeply flawed - as you say - still riven with racial divide - but wow, they put a man on the moon: more than 50 fucking years ago. 50 years ago!!! Mobile phones were science fiction. Thruppeny bits were a thing. We all ate cheese in triangles. A man on the fucking moon!??!!

    That's the America that, sadly, seems to have departed this world. Superbly optimistic, absolutely self confident - NOT self hating - truly generous in spirit, if ugly in its power, sometimes. An America ascendant that wanted to help the world, and did so.

    Gone gone gone.
    No comment. I'm just letting that go. Proud of myself.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    Democracy worked, they realised they'd made a mistake and they got rid of him.

    A Donald Trump in Russia like Putin gets in office and never leaves it, except via a casket.
    He is clearly insane and he got 70 MILLION votes

    Also, in case you missed, there was an attempted coup. In Washington DC

    Much as I would love to believe America is its old self, it ain't. And I don't see how it can be, now that China is so strong. The American century is over, the Chinese century begins. If we're "lucky" it will just be a half century, before the ROBOT MILLENNIUM
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    All countries elect idiots at some point. Plenty of US presidents have been idiots. However democracy allows mistakes to be rectified...
    Worth remembering that the next time somone bemoans that Boris means the world is laughing at us.

    We all choose idiots sometimes.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,461
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    Would that be the America of Jim Crow and the KKK? Of Operation Condor? Of Mayor Daley and Tammany Hall?

    I lived in America for five formative years. The one thing about America to be certain of is that it contains the worst of mankind as well as the best, incredible beauty as well as trashy ugliness, of high ideas and the lowest common denominator. It has always been both a shining city on the hill, and home of some of the darkest deeds.

    In that, nothing has changed. Indeed I would argue that pretty much all countries have their dark side as well as positive ones. It is just that in America we see more of it.
    The America of the Moon Landings, that's the America I miss. That, for me, was Peak America. Deeply flawed - as you say - still riven with racial divide - but wow, they put a man on the moon: more than 50 fucking years ago. 50 years ago!!! Mobile phones were science fiction. Thruppeny bits were a thing. We all ate cheese in triangles. A man on the fucking moon!??!!

    That's the America that, sadly, seems to have departed this world. Superbly optimistic, absolutely self confident - NOT self hating - truly generous in spirit, if ugly in its power, sometimes. An America ascendant that wanted to help the world, and did so.

    Gone gone gone.
    I remember visiting America in the late 80s and early 90s on family holidays. Amazing atmosphere at that time, as if this was the greatest place and time on earth.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    All countries elect idiots at some point. Plenty of US presidents have been idiots. However democracy allows mistakes to be rectified...
    How many revered democracies elect leaders that try to overthrow democracy? And nearly RE-elect them?

    We all saw the Storming of the Capitol

    Airily explaining him, and this, away, is a mix of foolishness, and wishful thinking. Trump happened, and his election, and all that came after, is a symptom of a deeply troubled polity
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,641
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    Trump was relected precisely by his voters to 'make America great again'
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    Would that be the America of Jim Crow and the KKK? Of Operation Condor? Of Mayor Daley and Tammany Hall?

    I lived in America for five formative years. The one thing about America to be certain of is that it contains the worst of mankind as well as the best, incredible beauty as well as trashy ugliness, of high ideas and the lowest common denominator. It has always been both a shining city on the hill, and home of some of the darkest deeds.

    In that, nothing has changed. Indeed I would argue that pretty much all countries have their dark side as well as positive ones. It is just that in America we see more of it.
    The America of the Moon Landings, that's the America I miss. That, for me, was Peak America. Deeply flawed - as you say - still riven with racial divide - but wow, they put a man on the moon: more than 50 fucking years ago. 50 years ago!!! Mobile phones were science fiction. Thruppeny bits were a thing. We all ate cheese in triangles. A man on the fucking moon!??!!

    That's the America that, sadly, seems to have departed this world. Superbly optimistic, absolutely self confident - NOT self hating - truly generous in spirit, if ugly in its power, sometimes. An America ascendant that wanted to help the world, and did so.

    Gone gone gone.
    I remember visiting America in the late 80s and early 90s on family holidays. Amazing atmosphere at that time, as if this was the greatest place and time on earth.
    That's what you get if you go to Disney World of course... :)
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Re: The Interview, has anyone yet contacted Prince Andrew for HIS feedback? OR La Maxwell?

    Seems to me that HE, and not Meghan or Harry, is the true chink in the royal armor . . .
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    edited March 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    Trump was relected precisely by his voters to 'make America great again'
    So was Reagan and Clinton...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,461

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    Would that be the America of Jim Crow and the KKK? Of Operation Condor? Of Mayor Daley and Tammany Hall?

    I lived in America for five formative years. The one thing about America to be certain of is that it contains the worst of mankind as well as the best, incredible beauty as well as trashy ugliness, of high ideas and the lowest common denominator. It has always been both a shining city on the hill, and home of some of the darkest deeds.

    In that, nothing has changed. Indeed I would argue that pretty much all countries have their dark side as well as positive ones. It is just that in America we see more of it.
    The America of the Moon Landings, that's the America I miss. That, for me, was Peak America. Deeply flawed - as you say - still riven with racial divide - but wow, they put a man on the moon: more than 50 fucking years ago. 50 years ago!!! Mobile phones were science fiction. Thruppeny bits were a thing. We all ate cheese in triangles. A man on the fucking moon!??!!

    That's the America that, sadly, seems to have departed this world. Superbly optimistic, absolutely self confident - NOT self hating - truly generous in spirit, if ugly in its power, sometimes. An America ascendant that wanted to help the world, and did so.

    Gone gone gone.
    I remember visiting America in the late 80s and early 90s on family holidays. Amazing atmosphere at that time, as if this was the greatest place and time on earth.
    That's what you get if you go to Disney World of course... :)
    Ordinary places had that feeling at lot of the time. It wasn't necessarily about the way things were, but about the fact that people were confident things would be better in the future.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Anyway Leon it's amusing that while bemoaning woke, division and the loss of America's self confidence you chose the 1960s as the example of what it should get back to.

    1960s is surely one of the most polarised, liberalising, divisive, transformative and for want of a better word the most "woke" decades America has faced in modern times.

    If you want America at its prime, then bring on the woke.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,641

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    Would that be the America of Jim Crow and the KKK? Of Operation Condor? Of Mayor Daley and Tammany Hall?

    I lived in America for five formative years. The one thing about America to be certain of is that it contains the worst of mankind as well as the best, incredible beauty as well as trashy ugliness, of high ideas and the lowest common denominator. It has always been both a shining city on the hill, and home of some of the darkest deeds.

    In that, nothing has changed. Indeed I would argue that pretty much all countries have their dark side as well as positive ones. It is just that in America we see more of it.
    The America of the Moon Landings, that's the America I miss. That, for me, was Peak America. Deeply flawed - as you say - still riven with racial divide - but wow, they put a man on the moon: more than 50 fucking years ago. 50 years ago!!! Mobile phones were science fiction. Thruppeny bits were a thing. We all ate cheese in triangles. A man on the fucking moon!??!!

    That's the America that, sadly, seems to have departed this world. Superbly optimistic, absolutely self confident - NOT self hating - truly generous in spirit, if ugly in its power, sometimes. An America ascendant that wanted to help the world, and did so.

    Gone gone gone.
    I remember visiting America in the late 80s and early 90s on family holidays. Amazing atmosphere at that time, as if this was the greatest place and time on earth.
    Yes, me exactly the same. Visiting America back then was a visit to the future, a trip to a technologically cleverer and sunburned land, full of optimism, and lazily self confident

    I don't get that buzz any more. You can catch a glimpse, in southern California on a good day, maybe New York by a supertall, but it is no longer pervasive.

    Go to China, and that's where you feel the power. You really do. It's not a happy country. But it swaggers and preens.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
    Ah we're getting a good @HYUFD -splaining of America tonight. Lucky us.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,641
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    All countries elect idiots at some point. Plenty of US presidents have been idiots. However democracy allows mistakes to be rectified...
    How many revered democracies elect leaders that try to overthrow democracy? And nearly RE-elect them?

    We all saw the Storming of the Capitol

    Airily explaining him, and this, away, is a mix of foolishness, and wishful thinking. Trump happened, and his election, and all that came after, is a symptom of a deeply troubled polity
    Trump had many faults but he was prepared to take on China and big corporations and to do what his middle American voters elected him to do.

    Biden-Harris may try and project consensus but they have to contain the woke far left within their midst and not just preside over further US decline
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,641
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    Democracy worked, they realised they'd made a mistake and they got rid of him.

    A Donald Trump in Russia like Putin gets in office and never leaves it, except via a casket.
    He is clearly insane and he got 70 MILLION votes

    Also, in case you missed, there was an attempted coup. In Washington DC

    Much as I would love to believe America is its old self, it ain't. And I don't see how it can be, now that China is so strong. The American century is over, the Chinese century begins. If we're "lucky" it will just be a half century, before the ROBOT MILLENNIUM
    The robots will still be US or Chinese robots
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    HYUFD said:

    Trump had many faults but he was prepared to take on China and big corporations and to do what his middle American voters elected him to do.

    And he failed miserably.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    Would that be the America of Jim Crow and the KKK? Of Operation Condor? Of Mayor Daley and Tammany Hall?

    I lived in America for five formative years. The one thing about America to be certain of is that it contains the worst of mankind as well as the best, incredible beauty as well as trashy ugliness, of high ideas and the lowest common denominator. It has always been both a shining city on the hill, and home of some of the darkest deeds.

    In that, nothing has changed. Indeed I would argue that pretty much all countries have their dark side as well as positive ones. It is just that in America we see more of it.
    The America of the Moon Landings, that's the America I miss. That, for me, was Peak America. Deeply flawed - as you say - still riven with racial divide - but wow, they put a man on the moon: more than 50 fucking years ago. 50 years ago!!! Mobile phones were science fiction. Thruppeny bits were a thing. We all ate cheese in triangles. A man on the fucking moon!??!!

    That's the America that, sadly, seems to have departed this world. Superbly optimistic, absolutely self confident - NOT self hating - truly generous in spirit, if ugly in its power, sometimes. An America ascendant that wanted to help the world, and did so.

    Gone gone gone.
    I remember visiting America in the late 80s and early 90s on family holidays. Amazing atmosphere at that time, as if this was the greatest place and time on earth.
    That's what you get if you go to Disney World of course... :)
    Ordinary places had that feeling at lot of the time. It wasn't necessarily about the way things were, but about the fact that people were confident things would be better in the future.
    Yes, indeed. Go to an ordinary place in America now..... Too often it is a different world

    I recommend the work of photographer Chris Arnade, who chronicles "ordinary America" superbly.

    https://twitter.com/blue_labour/status/1367910014841741315?s=20
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
    The guy who REALLY trashed Abraham Lincoln, was YOUR own pride and joy: You-Know-Who.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,641

    HYUFD said:

    Trump had many faults but he was prepared to take on China and big corporations and to do what his middle American voters elected him to do.

    And he failed miserably.
    Actually on the trade deficit with China he didn't

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3120807/us-trade-deficit-china-drops-donald-trump-launched-trade-war
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,461
    O/T

    Bit of a shock to see Vox on nearly 20% in the Spanish opinion polls, only slightly behind the mainstream conservative party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Spanish_general_election#Voting_intention_estimates
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump had many faults but he was prepared to take on China and big corporations and to do what his middle American voters elected him to do.

    And he failed miserably.
    Actually on the trade deficit with China he didn't

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3120807/us-trade-deficit-china-drops-donald-trump-launched-trade-war
    Article is behind paywall so I can't read it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,381
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
    Err. Wasn't civil rights "tearing down the country's heritage?"
    At least part, and a very large part of it.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    Democracy worked, they realised they'd made a mistake and they got rid of him.

    A Donald Trump in Russia like Putin gets in office and never leaves it, except via a casket.
    He is clearly insane and he got 70 MILLION votes

    Also, in case you missed, there was an attempted coup. In Washington DC

    Much as I would love to believe America is its old self, it ain't. And I don't see how it can be, now that China is so strong. The American century is over, the Chinese century begins. If we're "lucky" it will just be a half century, before the ROBOT MILLENNIUM
    There was an attempted coup that failed.

    As for China you overegg it. The only reason China has more GDP than the USA is because it's got more than 4x the population with a quarter of the GDP per capita that America does.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    Would that be the America of Jim Crow and the KKK? Of Operation Condor? Of Mayor Daley and Tammany Hall?

    I lived in America for five formative years. The one thing about America to be certain of is that it contains the worst of mankind as well as the best, incredible beauty as well as trashy ugliness, of high ideas and the lowest common denominator. It has always been both a shining city on the hill, and home of some of the darkest deeds.

    In that, nothing has changed. Indeed I would argue that pretty much all countries have their dark side as well as positive ones. It is just that in America we see more of it.
    The America of the Moon Landings, that's the America I miss. That, for me, was Peak America. Deeply flawed - as you say - still riven with racial divide - but wow, they put a man on the moon: more than 50 fucking years ago. 50 years ago!!! Mobile phones were science fiction. Thruppeny bits were a thing. We all ate cheese in triangles. A man on the fucking moon!??!!

    That's the America that, sadly, seems to have departed this world. Superbly optimistic, absolutely self confident - NOT self hating - truly generous in spirit, if ugly in its power, sometimes. An America ascendant that wanted to help the world, and did so.

    Gone gone gone.
    I remember visiting America in the late 80s and early 90s on family holidays. Amazing atmosphere at that time, as if this was the greatest place and time on earth.
    That's what you get if you go to Disney World of course... :)
    Ordinary places had that feeling at lot of the time. It wasn't necessarily about the way things were, but about the fact that people were confident things would be better in the future.
    Yes, indeed. Go to an ordinary place in America now..... Too often it is a different world

    I recommend the work of photographer Chris Arnade, who chronicles "ordinary America" superbly.

    https://twitter.com/blue_labour/status/1367910014841741315?s=20
    AOC would love to redistribute some wealth away from the rich cities to these towns but they hate her. 🤷‍♂️
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,641
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
    Err. Wasn't civil rights "tearing down the country's heritage?"
    At least part, and a very large part of it.
    No as the Union won the civil war not the Confederacy.

    The far left want to tear down Lincoln, capitalism, the traditional family and the military too
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
    Err. Wasn't civil rights "tearing down the country's heritage?"
    At least part, and a very large part of it.
    No as the Union won the civil war not the Confederacy.

    The far left want to tear down Lincoln, capitalism, the traditional family and the military too
    You're a funny guy 😂

    You're far too well educated to believe this nonsense
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,641

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
    Err. Wasn't civil rights "tearing down the country's heritage?"
    At least part, and a very large part of it.
    No as the Union won the civil war not the Confederacy.

    The far left want to tear down Lincoln, capitalism, the traditional family and the military too
    You're a funny guy 😂

    You're far too well educated to believe this nonsense
    It is the truth, if the far left get their way their would be no West left at all
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    All countries elect idiots at some point. Plenty of US presidents have been idiots. However democracy allows mistakes to be rectified...
    How many revered democracies elect leaders that try to overthrow democracy? And nearly RE-elect them?

    We all saw the Storming of the Capitol

    Airily explaining him, and this, away, is a mix of foolishness, and wishful thinking. Trump happened, and his election, and all that came after, is a symptom of a deeply troubled polity
    Trump had many faults but he was prepared to take on China and big corporations and to do what his middle American voters elected him to do.

    Biden-Harris may try and project consensus but they have to contain the woke far left within their midst and not just preside over further US decline
    But, isn't Kamala Harris the epitome of Woke? You seem to have strayed from the party line on this!

    BTW, did you happen to notice US Senate passage of the latest COVID stimulus package? Which does NOT include $15 min wage NOR does it go near as far as what progressives wanted re: unemployment insurance extension? Yet passed the Senate with UNANIMOUS Democratic support. AND according to informed sources - namely Speaker Pelosi - will pass the House no problemo tomorrow.

    Would suggest THAT is some evidence, that Uncle Joe and Ms Kamala may be able to deal with the Woke Left.

    Whereas McConnell, Thune, McCarthy etc., etc. appear to be having MUCH more difficulty with the Woke Right.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
    Err. Wasn't civil rights "tearing down the country's heritage?"
    At least part, and a very large part of it.
    No as the Union won the civil war not the Confederacy.

    The far left want to tear down Lincoln, capitalism, the traditional family and the military too
    You're a funny guy 😂

    You're far too well educated to believe this nonsense
    It is the truth, if the far left get their way their would be no West left at all
    Who is this "far left" bogey man?

    You know someone can support trans rights, for example, without being "the far left".

    Someone can also support higher taxes in order to build infrastructure in "forgotten towns" without being "the far left" - The British Conservative Party for one.

    Someone can support spending less on the military in order to fund other projects without being "the far left".

    You appear to be going further and further down the Trump sinkhole and are losing grasp of reason.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    Democracy worked, they realised they'd made a mistake and they got rid of him.

    A Donald Trump in Russia like Putin gets in office and never leaves it, except via a casket.
    He is clearly insane and he got 70 MILLION votes

    Also, in case you missed, there was an attempted coup. In Washington DC

    Much as I would love to believe America is its old self, it ain't. And I don't see how it can be, now that China is so strong. The American century is over, the Chinese century begins. If we're "lucky" it will just be a half century, before the ROBOT MILLENNIUM
    There was an attempted coup that failed.

    As for China you overegg it. The only reason China has more GDP than the USA is because it's got more than 4x the population with a quarter of the GDP per capita that America does.
    Brilliant argument. Were you president of the Oxford Union, perchance?

    "The only reason China is bigger than America is because... China is bigger than America"

    Brute strength is brute strength. It is what it is, whether it comes from a massive population (China) or possessing all the best parts of an entire and fertile continent (America)

    America has never before faced this. A country that is its equal, and almost certain to surpass it. When these New Hegemon moments occur, in human history, they often result in terrible war. Cf declining Britain v rising Imperialist Germany in 1914.

    We have to hope that this passing of the torch is peaceful. Trump is not an encouraging sign. But who knows.

    Biden is surprisingly hawkish v China.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
    There is absolutely no difference whatsoever.

    1960s or 70s HYUFD would have been ranting and raving about the far left Fonda, Malcolm X etc while backing Nixon.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,479

    Anyway Leon it's amusing that while bemoaning woke, division and the loss of America's self confidence you chose the 1960s as the example of what it should get back to.

    1960s is surely one of the most polarised, liberalising, divisive, transformative and for want of a better word the most "woke" decades America has faced in modern times.

    If you want America at its prime, then bring on the woke.

    It depends whether you see the "woke" movement as part of that tradition or a turn away from individualism.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
    There is absolutely no difference whatsoever.

    1960s or 70s HYUFD would have been ranting and raving about the far left Fonda, Malcolm X etc while backing Nixon.
    Probably ranting and raving about the "promotion" of gay people as an attack on family values also.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952
    edited March 2021

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    Would that be the America of Jim Crow and the KKK? Of Operation Condor? Of Mayor Daley and Tammany Hall?

    I lived in America for five formative years. The one thing about America to be certain of is that it contains the worst of mankind as well as the best, incredible beauty as well as trashy ugliness, of high ideas and the lowest common denominator. It has always been both a shining city on the hill, and home of some of the darkest deeds.

    In that, nothing has changed. Indeed I would argue that pretty much all countries have their dark side as well as positive ones. It is just that in America we see more of it.
    The America of the Moon Landings, that's the America I miss. That, for me, was Peak America. Deeply flawed - as you say - still riven with racial divide - but wow, they put a man on the moon: more than 50 fucking years ago. 50 years ago!!! Mobile phones were science fiction. Thruppeny bits were a thing. We all ate cheese in triangles. A man on the fucking moon!??!!

    That's the America that, sadly, seems to have departed this world. Superbly optimistic, absolutely self confident - NOT self hating - truly generous in spirit, if ugly in its power, sometimes. An America ascendant that wanted to help the world, and did so.

    Gone gone gone.
    I remember visiting America in the late 80s and early 90s on family holidays. Amazing atmosphere at that time, as if this was the greatest place and time on earth.
    That's what you get if you go to Disney World of course... :)
    Ordinary places had that feeling at lot of the time. It wasn't necessarily about the way things were, but about the fact that people were confident things would be better in the future.
    Yes, indeed. Go to an ordinary place in America now..... Too often it is a different world

    I recommend the work of photographer Chris Arnade, who chronicles "ordinary America" superbly.

    https://twitter.com/blue_labour/status/1367910014841741315?s=20
    AOC would love to redistribute some wealth away from the rich cities to these towns but they hate her. 🤷‍♂️
    I agree! Believe it or not. And if you read that article Justin Webb is also saying Biden may actually do it. Or at least try

    Amazing paragraph:

    "According to the think tank The People’s Policy Project, if you took all the wealth in America and divided it up equally per person every family of four would get $1.2 million in the bank and an income of $208,000 a year."

    But the Democrats really need to drop the more extreme Woke shit (as Webb also says) because it deeply antagonises Middle America, and is counter-productive (besides being insane).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,641

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
    There is absolutely no difference whatsoever.

    1960s or 70s HYUFD would have been ranting and raving about the far left Fonda, Malcolm X etc while backing Nixon.
    Nixon was a tough President for his faults.

    You however have no interest in standing for anything but the weakening of the West, its culture and its values, you have nothing whatsover to do with conservatism in any form as you have finally confirmed tonight
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    Democracy worked, they realised they'd made a mistake and they got rid of him.

    A Donald Trump in Russia like Putin gets in office and never leaves it, except via a casket.
    He is clearly insane and he got 70 MILLION votes

    Also, in case you missed, there was an attempted coup. In Washington DC

    Much as I would love to believe America is its old self, it ain't. And I don't see how it can be, now that China is so strong. The American century is over, the Chinese century begins. If we're "lucky" it will just be a half century, before the ROBOT MILLENNIUM
    There was an attempted coup that failed.

    As for China you overegg it. The only reason China has more GDP than the USA is because it's got more than 4x the population with a quarter of the GDP per capita that America does.
    Brilliant argument. Were you president of the Oxford Union, perchance?

    "The only reason China is bigger than America is because... China is bigger than America"

    Brute strength is brute strength. It is what it is, whether it comes from a massive population (China) or possessing all the best parts of an entire and fertile continent (America)

    America has never before faced this. A country that is its equal, and almost certain to surpass it. When these New Hegemon moments occur, in human history, they often result in terrible war. Cf declining Britain v rising Imperialist Germany in 1914.

    We have to hope that this passing of the torch is peaceful. Trump is not an encouraging sign. But who knows.

    Biden is surprisingly hawkish v China.
    No, having a billion poor people doesn't make you strong.

    America's strength isn't from having more people. The USSR had a bigger population than the USA.

    America's strength is from challenging itself internally (which wokism is doing) and developing technological progress (Silicon Valley, SpaceX etc) and being better off per capita (which it is, 4-fold over the Chinese).
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited March 2021
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
    There is absolutely no difference whatsoever.

    1960s or 70s HYUFD would have been ranting and raving about the far left Fonda, Malcolm X etc while backing Nixon.
    Nixon was a tough President for his faults.

    You however have no interest in standing for anything but the weakening of the West, its culture and its values, you have nothing whatsover to do with conservatism in any form as you have finally confirmed tonight
    No shit Sherlock I'm a liberal.

    The West's strength is from challenging itself, not from being united. We get strenfth from our division. Evolution works.

    Sclerotic conservativism is a weakness not a strength.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,641

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
    Err. Wasn't civil rights "tearing down the country's heritage?"
    At least part, and a very large part of it.
    No as the Union won the civil war not the Confederacy.

    The far left want to tear down Lincoln, capitalism, the traditional family and the military too
    You're a funny guy 😂

    You're far too well educated to believe this nonsense
    It is the truth, if the far left get their way their would be no West left at all
    Who is this "far left" bogey man?

    You know someone can support trans rights, for example, without being "the far left".

    Someone can also support higher taxes in order to build infrastructure in "forgotten towns" without being "the far left" - The British Conservative Party for one.

    Someone can support spending less on the military in order to fund other projects without being "the far left".

    You appear to be going further and further down the Trump sinkhole and are losing grasp of reason.
    You can support trans rights while still recognising there is a difference between a woman and a man.

    You can raise taxes again and again until you have no growth and no economy left to fund the infrastructure.


    You can spend less and less on the military until you are so weak Russia and China and radical terrorism have an open door to shape the world in their own image.

    Which is why you and your agenda must be fought every step of the way!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,479

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    Democracy worked, they realised they'd made a mistake and they got rid of him.

    A Donald Trump in Russia like Putin gets in office and never leaves it, except via a casket.
    He is clearly insane and he got 70 MILLION votes

    Also, in case you missed, there was an attempted coup. In Washington DC

    Much as I would love to believe America is its old self, it ain't. And I don't see how it can be, now that China is so strong. The American century is over, the Chinese century begins. If we're "lucky" it will just be a half century, before the ROBOT MILLENNIUM
    There was an attempted coup that failed.

    As for China you overegg it. The only reason China has more GDP than the USA is because it's got more than 4x the population with a quarter of the GDP per capita that America does.
    Brilliant argument. Were you president of the Oxford Union, perchance?

    "The only reason China is bigger than America is because... China is bigger than America"

    Brute strength is brute strength. It is what it is, whether it comes from a massive population (China) or possessing all the best parts of an entire and fertile continent (America)

    America has never before faced this. A country that is its equal, and almost certain to surpass it. When these New Hegemon moments occur, in human history, they often result in terrible war. Cf declining Britain v rising Imperialist Germany in 1914.

    We have to hope that this passing of the torch is peaceful. Trump is not an encouraging sign. But who knows.

    Biden is surprisingly hawkish v China.
    No, having a billion poor people doesn't make you strong.
    China overtakes US in rankings of world's richest people

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/21/china-overtakes-us-in-rankings-of-worlds-richest-people

    The bank’s annual wealth survey found there were 100 million Chinese people among the world’s top 10% of richest people, compared with 99 million in the US.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    There is a difference between civil rights and actively tearing down your country and its heritage and its statues which is what many on the far left in America want to do.

    They even wanted Lincoln trashed for example. They hate America and everything it stands for, they hate free speech with the only thought aloud that which respects their own agenda, they hate capitalism and they hate the military, they hate anything which makes America strong.

    However I would not expect any less from your usual clueless ultra liberal claptrap
    Err. Wasn't civil rights "tearing down the country's heritage?"
    At least part, and a very large part of it.
    No as the Union won the civil war not the Confederacy.

    The far left want to tear down Lincoln, capitalism, the traditional family and the military too
    You're a funny guy 😂

    You're far too well educated to believe this nonsense
    It is the truth, if the far left get their way their would be no West left at all
    Who is this "far left" bogey man?

    You know someone can support trans rights, for example, without being "the far left".

    Someone can also support higher taxes in order to build infrastructure in "forgotten towns" without being "the far left" - The British Conservative Party for one.

    Someone can support spending less on the military in order to fund other projects without being "the far left".

    You appear to be going further and further down the Trump sinkhole and are losing grasp of reason.
    You can support trans rights while still recognising there is a difference between a woman and a man.

    You can raise taxes again and again until you have no growth and no economy left to fund the infrastructure.


    You can spend less and less on the military until you are so weak Russia and China and radical terrorism have an open door to shape the world in their own image.

    Which is why you and your agenda must be fought every step of the way!
    You’re being completely incoherent 😂
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,461
    "Hunt is on to identify royal family member who made ‘Archie race slur’"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hunt-is-on-to-identify-royal-family-member-who-made-archie-race-slur-bwmsxnfrb
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,081
    Hopefully supply will increase after March, 3 million a week in April crawls to a snail's pace on 1st doses.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,205

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    I mean, 47% is a minority. I expected that to be higher to be honest.
    It is a more than 2 to 1 margin against the interview
    Yeah, but it's still a minority, which is interesting in itself.
    No it isn't, there is bound to be a division, the fact only 21% ie less than a quarter, think it was appropriate is the shocking stat
    Yes it is. I expected support for the Royal Family to be higher. The fact it isn't is interesting to me.

    What it shows is that a ton of people are indifferent, which I guess is as expected.

    Not everyone is crying into their porridge about the "sneering west coast liberal treatment of OUR Royal Family"
    Is it possible to be both indifferent to the royals and also think Megan is a nasty bit of work? I view the whole Royal Family thing as a bit of a weird and fairly pointless historical thing, but I'd be in no great rush to replace them unless Charles starts trying to throw his weight around (not least because any replacement would doubtless be a stitch up involving grifting politicians).
    That said, Megan seems to be the sort of brash, grasping, californian liberal type I utterly detest, and judging by this interview (I've not watched it, merely hear too much news coverage) is probably a barefaced liar to boot.
    This isn't to say all Yanks are bad - I'd just rather meet a texas redneck oilman with a pickup truck the size of a small house, than some wingey woke has-been of a 3rd rate celeb who happens to have married a minor royal.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    Democracy worked, they realised they'd made a mistake and they got rid of him.

    A Donald Trump in Russia like Putin gets in office and never leaves it, except via a casket.
    He is clearly insane and he got 70 MILLION votes

    Also, in case you missed, there was an attempted coup. In Washington DC

    Much as I would love to believe America is its old self, it ain't. And I don't see how it can be, now that China is so strong. The American century is over, the Chinese century begins. If we're "lucky" it will just be a half century, before the ROBOT MILLENNIUM
    There was an attempted coup that failed.

    As for China you overegg it. The only reason China has more GDP than the USA is because it's got more than 4x the population with a quarter of the GDP per capita that America does.
    Brilliant argument. Were you president of the Oxford Union, perchance?

    "The only reason China is bigger than America is because... China is bigger than America"

    Brute strength is brute strength. It is what it is, whether it comes from a massive population (China) or possessing all the best parts of an entire and fertile continent (America)

    America has never before faced this. A country that is its equal, and almost certain to surpass it. When these New Hegemon moments occur, in human history, they often result in terrible war. Cf declining Britain v rising Imperialist Germany in 1914.

    We have to hope that this passing of the torch is peaceful. Trump is not an encouraging sign. But who knows.

    Biden is surprisingly hawkish v China.
    No, having a billion poor people doesn't make you strong.

    America's strength isn't from having more people. The USSR had a bigger population than the USA.

    America's strength is from challenging itself internally (which wokism is doing) and developing technological progress (Silicon Valley, SpaceX etc) and being better off per capita (which it is, 4-fold over the Chinese).
    China doesn't have "a billion poor people", not any more, indeed it has none ii you mean something like Indian peasants

    https://www.businesstoday.in/current/world/china-scored-complete-victory-in-fight-against-poverty-xi-jinping/story/432408.html

    That is propaganda, but it also tells a truth. China has basically eradicated extreme poverty, as you do when your economy grows 5-12% a year for forty years
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,681
    Pulpstar said:

    Hopefully supply will increase after March, 3 million a week in April crawls to a snail's pace on 1st doses.

    Plus Pfizer, Moderna and Novavax. 3m is just from AZ according to the reports.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952
    theProle said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    I mean, 47% is a minority. I expected that to be higher to be honest.
    It is a more than 2 to 1 margin against the interview
    Yeah, but it's still a minority, which is interesting in itself.
    No it isn't, there is bound to be a division, the fact only 21% ie less than a quarter, think it was appropriate is the shocking stat
    Yes it is. I expected support for the Royal Family to be higher. The fact it isn't is interesting to me.

    What it shows is that a ton of people are indifferent, which I guess is as expected.

    Not everyone is crying into their porridge about the "sneering west coast liberal treatment of OUR Royal Family"
    Is it possible to be both indifferent to the royals and also think Megan is a nasty bit of work? I view the whole Royal Family thing as a bit of a weird and fairly pointless historical thing, but I'd be in no great rush to replace them unless Charles starts trying to throw his weight around (not least because any replacement would doubtless be a stitch up involving grifting politicians).
    That said, Megan seems to be the sort of brash, grasping, californian liberal type I utterly detest, and judging by this interview (I've not watched it, merely hear too much news coverage) is probably a barefaced liar to boot.
    This isn't to say all Yanks are bad - I'd just rather meet a texas redneck oilman with a pickup truck the size of a small house, than some wingey woke has-been of a 3rd rate celeb who happens to have married a minor royal.
    A splendidly eloquent summary! Hear hear
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Where I agree a weeeeeee bit with HYUFD, and more with Leon, is that American left/center-left in general, and Democratic Party in particular, have alienated themselves from LARGE numbers of White people across the country, in particular most of the rural, blue collar, moderate voters who were the traditional base for Democrats and progressives.

    AND that it is imperative to the future of progress and democracy in America, for progressives and Democrats to win back these lost legions. NOT (just) via persuasion and propaganda BUT mostly, fundamental from self-evaluation, listening and TRUE inclusion.

    E pluribus unum!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,332
    edited March 2021

    Re: The Interview, has anyone yet contacted Prince Andrew for HIS feedback? OR La Maxwell?

    Seems to me that HE, and not Meghan or Harry, is the true chink in the royal armor . . .

    I would agree that Prince Andrew is a chink in the Royal armour. But Meghan and Harry on the other hand aren't anything in or on the Royal armour at all. They used to be part of the Royal family, now they're just two celebs, soon to be photographed at the opening of an envelope.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,461
    "Royal commentators hoaxed into critique of Meghan interview before seeing it

    YouTuber pranksters tricked experts into being filmed reviewing Oprah Winfrey special with the Sussexes"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/07/royal-commentators-hoaxed-into-critique-of-meghan-interview-before-seeing-it
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650

    Where I agree a weeeeeee bit with HYUFD, and more with Leon, is that American left/center-left in general, and Democratic Party in particular, have alienated themselves from LARGE numbers of White people across the country, in particular most of the rural, blue collar, moderate voters who were the traditional base for Democrats and progressives.

    AND that it is imperative to the future of progress and democracy in America, for progressives and Democrats to win back these lost legions. NOT (just) via persuasion and propaganda BUT mostly, fundamental from self-evaluation, listening and TRUE inclusion.

    E pluribus unum!

    No political movement needs 60 per cent support. The Conservatives have done fine with 40 something per cent, 52 when needed. If remainers can suck it up, so can white people.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,985
    Andy_JS said:

    "Hunt is on to identify royal family member who made ‘Archie race slur’"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hunt-is-on-to-identify-royal-family-member-who-made-archie-race-slur-bwmsxnfrb

    That’s not how to get back into the Cabinet.....
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    theProle said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    I mean, 47% is a minority. I expected that to be higher to be honest.
    It is a more than 2 to 1 margin against the interview
    Yeah, but it's still a minority, which is interesting in itself.
    No it isn't, there is bound to be a division, the fact only 21% ie less than a quarter, think it was appropriate is the shocking stat
    Yes it is. I expected support for the Royal Family to be higher. The fact it isn't is interesting to me.

    What it shows is that a ton of people are indifferent, which I guess is as expected.

    Not everyone is crying into their porridge about the "sneering west coast liberal treatment of OUR Royal Family"
    Is it possible to be both indifferent to the royals and also think Megan is a nasty bit of work? I view the whole Royal Family thing as a bit of a weird and fairly pointless historical thing, but I'd be in no great rush to replace them unless Charles starts trying to throw his weight around (not least because any replacement would doubtless be a stitch up involving grifting politicians).
    That said, Megan seems to be the sort of brash, grasping, californian liberal type I utterly detest, and judging by this interview (I've not watched it, merely hear too much news coverage) is probably a barefaced liar to boot.
    This isn't to say all Yanks are bad - I'd just rather meet a texas redneck oilman with a pickup truck the size of a small house, than some wingey woke has-been of a 3rd rate celeb who happens to have married a minor royal.
    Personally am far from indifferent to the royals. And while I am NOT a big fan of Meghan's neither do I think her nasty. She IS a somewhat irritating (to Americans as well as Brits) type: Valley Girl. Or more generally, SoCali Girl.

    Though can understand why many here & elsewhere simply cannot stand her. Especially Brits. Indeed, my tendency is to give you UKers a LOT of leeway on this, because it touches chords of your national psyche that an American can scare conceive.

    But then millions around the world have had the experience, of seeing a member of your own family hook up with someone you considered (to coin a word) inappropriate (for whatever reason). But IF the object of their affection kept the connection and stuck to their guns, you just had to lump it. And try to make the best of it.

    Which is what the Queen & Philip & Charles & William & Kate seem to have done re: Harry & Meghan. At first, anyway. But then it all went south - just as with Diana forty-odd years ago. Gee, wonder why?

    Why? Maybe it was that somebody got sold a pig-in-a-poke, and come to find out they got more of a porker than they'd bargained for?

    With Diana, beyond the personal, dysfunctional dynamics between her & Charles (& Camilla) there was clearly a serious difficulty in the ability of the Palace mediocracy to cope with the Prince, and visa versa. They had assumed, on the basis of her aristo pedigree (bluer blood than Charles by a country mile) that she would mold and confirm to requirements. Which MIGHT have been achieved IF they had had a clue, which history shows they did not.

    Now same damn thing has happened yet again, a weird cross-wiring of history:

    (Wallis + David) + (Diana + Charles) = Meghan & Harry

    Methinks that in all of these cases, the powers-that-be (or -were) SERIOUSLY underestimated She Who Must Be Included (if not obeyed).
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Re: The Interview, has anyone yet contacted Prince Andrew for HIS feedback? OR La Maxwell?

    Seems to me that HE, and not Meghan or Harry, is the true chink in the royal armor . . .

    I would agree that Prince Andrew is a chink in the Royal armour. But Meghan and Harry on the other hand aren't anything in or on the Royal armour at all. They used to be part of the Royal family, now they're just two celebs, soon to be photographed at the opening of an envelope.
    Don't think family works that way, not usually.

    I know in my heart, that Harry's family loves him. AND believe that the people do to, and always will, in the UK, America and a bunch of other places. For his mother's sake, as well as his own.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    EPG said:

    Where I agree a weeeeeee bit with HYUFD, and more with Leon, is that American left/center-left in general, and Democratic Party in particular, have alienated themselves from LARGE numbers of White people across the country, in particular most of the rural, blue collar, moderate voters who were the traditional base for Democrats and progressives.

    AND that it is imperative to the future of progress and democracy in America, for progressives and Democrats to win back these lost legions. NOT (just) via persuasion and propaganda BUT mostly, fundamental from self-evaluation, listening and TRUE inclusion.

    E pluribus unum!

    No political movement needs 60 per cent support. The Conservatives have done fine with 40 something per cent, 52 when needed. If remainers can suck it up, so can white people.
    Maybe. In fact, yeah, most of the time. But SOMETIMES you do, LONG-TERM you do. NOT just to win elections. But to get things DONE.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Politico.com - RNC brushes back Trump team on 'cease-and-desist' demand
    The committee's top lawyer says in a letter to Trump's attorney that the ex-president signed off on the RNC's activities in a conversation with chair Ronna McDaniel

    The Republican National Committee is denying a cease-and-desist demand from Donald Trump’s attorneys, who asked the party organization to stop using the former president’s name and likeness in fundraising appeals.

    In a letter sent Monday afternoon to Trump attorney Alex Cannon, RNC chief counsel Justin Riemer asserted that the committee “has every right to refer to public figures as it engages in core, First Amendment-protected political speech, and it will continue to do so in pursuit of these common goals.”

    The letter is a brush-back to the Trump team, which sent a March 5 request that the RNC “immediately cease and desist the unauthorized use of President Donald J. Trump’s name, image, and/or likeness in all fundraising, persuasion, and/or issue speech.”

    Trump attorneys sent letters to a cadre of GOP committees asking them to stop using Trump in fundraising appeals, including the National Republican Senatorial Committee and the National Republican Congressional Committee. Other groups loosely affiliated with the party have also received notices.

    An NRCC spokesperson declined to comment on how the organization planned to respond to the cease-and-desist letters. An NRSC spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment.

    The dust-up represents a rare break between the Trump team and the RNC, which during the 2020 campaign worked together through a joint fundraising vehicle to raise over $366 million. The two sides merged their political and digital operations together into a single operation in the run-up to last year's election, and their fundraising activities were closely aligned. Trump and McDaniel speak frequently, and just after the election, he endorsed her to serve a third term as party chair — a nod that paved the way for her reelection. . . .

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/08/rnc-trump-cease-and-desist-474412
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,461
    Martin Baxter's page on Batley and Spen has interesting stats, such as average house price = £165K.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Batley and Spen
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,031
    I do love the strange bedfellows the Supreme Court makes.

    Today it's Thomas, Alito and Sotomayor vs Roberts.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Andy_JS said:

    Martin Baxter's page on Batley and Spen has interesting stats, such as average house price = £165K.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Batley and Spen

    IF there is a by-election, expect fierce competition. For who would NOT want to be MP for BS?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    rcs1000 said:

    I do love the strange bedfellows the Supreme Court makes.

    Today it's Thomas, Alito and Sotomayor vs Roberts.

    Uzuegbunam Case (try saying THAT three times real fast!)

    SCOTUS today ruled 8-1 upholding student's right to sue for nominal damages for original denial (soon rescinded) of right to preach evangelical Christianity on public college campus.

    Liberal interest groups joined with religious conservatives in supporting claim; Roberts dissented because he opposes opening up courts to such actions, in line with previous SCOTUS opinion he wrote as late Justice Scalia's law clerk.

    https://www.vox.com/2021/3/8/22319503/supreme-courts-evangelical-campus-uzuegbunam-preczewski-clarence-thomas-john-roberts
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,479
    NY Times: "Harry declared his independence from British racism"

    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1369054086000242697
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,886
    A rare entirely pointless thread (apart from @Cyclefree ’s good news).
    Will check in again tomorrow.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,903

    NY Times: "Harry declared his independence from British racism"

    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1369054086000242697

    White privilege? It's a thousand year-old monarchy for goodness sake.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,031
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    China was always going to be the replacement as soon as it abandoned Marxism as the largest population on earth.

    China may be an authoritarian dictatorship but one thing you certainly cannot say it is either is filled with left liberal wokery as the new US elite seems to be.

    The US no longer has the strength nor the will to push its agenda and values of freedom and democracy as so much of its elite hates what it and the traditional west stood for, so it no longer deserves to be number 1 really either.

    Instead we are moving to a more multipolar world where China, the US and India will lead but none having supreme power
    People dismiss Wokery as a passing fad, but it is actually a serious menace to America's prosperity. I could choose any number of examples - check the abolition of SATS - but let's go for something more surprising. AI and GPT3

    The whole field has been invaded by Wokeyness and is now bedevilled.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/02/20/google-sacks-second-ethical-ai-researcher-amid-censorship-storm/


    I can easily foresee this incredible technology going unused, or being crippled - in America - as it is surrounded by furious rows over alleged bias in the algorithms. Lots of AI researchers are worried this will happen.

    Who will benefit? China, of course. They will build GPT4 and they won't give a toss about its political correctness, or lack of.

    Indeed, superpowers don't get to be superpowers by guilt and self hate, they get to be superpowers by ruthlessness, strength and fierce patriotism.

    Yes we need to treat people of all backgrounds and races fairly and equally but no we do not need to be filled by self hate, with that comes weakness in terms of leadership, weakness in terms of projection of values and weakness economically as well
    Completely preposterous bullshit that shows you don't know anything about America.

    "Guilt and self hate" is a strength not a weakness. It is America's forte and it has riven American for hundreds of years, though thankfully not as badly as the 1850s and 1860s, but it never stopped.

    The 1960s when America was putting a man on the moon was when flower power activists and antiwar activists were challenging the Vietnam War, the draft and the age of social and sexual revolutions was going on. It was the decade of "I have a Dream" and countless challenges to civil rights.

    America's strength is its ability to fight and challenge itself to be the best version of itself it can be. What you see as a weakness is its fundamental long running principle that leads America to evolve from strength to strength while "strong" regimes become stale, rot from the inside out and eventually collapse.
    With even the best will in the world, it is extremely hard to see a country which elects Donald Trump as president as a country that is also "moving from strength to strength". Sorry
    Democracy worked, they realised they'd made a mistake and they got rid of him.

    A Donald Trump in Russia like Putin gets in office and never leaves it, except via a casket.
    He is clearly insane and he got 70 MILLION votes

    Also, in case you missed, there was an attempted coup. In Washington DC

    Much as I would love to believe America is its old self, it ain't. And I don't see how it can be, now that China is so strong. The American century is over, the Chinese century begins. If we're "lucky" it will just be a half century, before the ROBOT MILLENNIUM
    The robots will still be US or Chinese robots
    The biggest maker - by far - of robots in the world is FANUC, which is Japanese. The second biggest is Kuka, which is German.

    But other than that, spot on.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,461
    "Prince Harry and Meghan Markle show the triumph of bohemian values over bourgeois ones
    The Sussexes are playing to a young, American audience who have no interest in obedience to tradition.
    Louise Perry"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/international/places/2021/03/prince-harry-and-meghan-markle-show-triumph-bohemian-values-over
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,031

    rcs1000 said:

    I do love the strange bedfellows the Supreme Court makes.

    Today it's Thomas, Alito and Sotomayor vs Roberts.

    Uzuegbunam Case (try saying THAT three times real fast!)

    SCOTUS today ruled 8-1 upholding student's right to sue for nominal damages for original denial (soon rescinded) of right to preach evangelical Christianity on public college campus.

    Liberal interest groups joined with religious conservatives in supporting claim; Roberts dissented because he opposes opening up courts to such actions, in line with previous SCOTUS opinion he wrote as late Justice Scalia's law clerk.

    https://www.vox.com/2021/3/8/22319503/supreme-courts-evangelical-campus-uzuegbunam-preczewski-clarence-thomas-john-roberts
    I think Roberts is right on this one.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,031
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Hopefully supply will increase after March, 3 million a week in April crawls to a snail's pace on 1st doses.

    Plus Pfizer, Moderna and Novavax. 3m is just from AZ according to the reports.
    Apparently Moderna vaccines are now being shipped from Switzerland to Spain for bottling, and are going from there to the UK.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited March 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I do love the strange bedfellows the Supreme Court makes.

    Today it's Thomas, Alito and Sotomayor vs Roberts.

    Uzuegbunam Case (try saying THAT three times real fast!)

    SCOTUS today ruled 8-1 upholding student's right to sue for nominal damages for original denial (soon rescinded) of right to preach evangelical Christianity on public college campus.

    Liberal interest groups joined with religious conservatives in supporting claim; Roberts dissented because he opposes opening up courts to such actions, in line with previous SCOTUS opinion he wrote as late Justice Scalia's law clerk.

    https://www.vox.com/2021/3/8/22319503/supreme-courts-evangelical-campus-uzuegbunam-preczewski-clarence-thomas-john-roberts
    I think Roberts is right on this one.
    Naturally. Always had you pegged as a rabid anti-Uzuegbunamian. Or is that anti-Uzuegbunamite?

    Roberts's dissent on this case is an excellent, painless way for him to show he is a man of true principle, beholden to neither left nor right (yeah right).

    And NOT just an accurate mathematician, or rather calculator.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,031

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I do love the strange bedfellows the Supreme Court makes.

    Today it's Thomas, Alito and Sotomayor vs Roberts.

    Uzuegbunam Case (try saying THAT three times real fast!)

    SCOTUS today ruled 8-1 upholding student's right to sue for nominal damages for original denial (soon rescinded) of right to preach evangelical Christianity on public college campus.

    Liberal interest groups joined with religious conservatives in supporting claim; Roberts dissented because he opposes opening up courts to such actions, in line with previous SCOTUS opinion he wrote as late Justice Scalia's law clerk.

    https://www.vox.com/2021/3/8/22319503/supreme-courts-evangelical-campus-uzuegbunam-preczewski-clarence-thomas-john-roberts
    I think Roberts is right on this one.
    Naturally. Always had you pegged as a rabid anti-Uzuegbunamian. Or is that anti-Uzuegbunamite?

    Roberts's dissent on this case is an excellent, painless way for him to show he is a man of true principle, beholden to neither left nor right (yeah right).

    And NOT just an accurate mathematician, or rather calculator.
    Roberts is a conservative Justice. And he's also a justice who likes to rule on small things, rather than big.

    While I don't agree with him on a lot, I also rather like him. He's a good Chief Justice.

    The justices I really don't like are Thomas and Alito.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,903
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Hopefully supply will increase after March, 3 million a week in April crawls to a snail's pace on 1st doses.

    Plus Pfizer, Moderna and Novavax. 3m is just from AZ according to the reports.
    Apparently Moderna vaccines are now being shipped from Switzerland to Spain for bottling, and are going from there to the UK.
    Don’t tell the EU!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Andy_JS said:

    "Prince Harry and Meghan Markle show the triumph of bohemian values over bourgeois ones
    The Sussexes are playing to a young, American audience who have no interest in obedience to tradition.
    Louise Perry"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/international/places/2021/03/prince-harry-and-meghan-markle-show-triumph-bohemian-values-over

    Not sure you can call moving to Santa Barbara, California to start a family and build a new live "Bohemianism" certainly NOT in America.

    About as radical as moving to Henley-on-Thames, selling used Bentleys and opening a boutique or suchlike, and settling down to make a few babies.

    Of course difference in scale, selling used cars & bric-a-brac versus international royal celebrity media empire.

    BUT THAT is hardly outside the mainstream in SB, CA. Certainly NOT Bohemian. Unless you mean Bohemian Grove!

  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,190
    theProle said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    I mean, 47% is a minority. I expected that to be higher to be honest.
    It is a more than 2 to 1 margin against the interview
    Yeah, but it's still a minority, which is interesting in itself.
    No it isn't, there is bound to be a division, the fact only 21% ie less than a quarter, think it was appropriate is the shocking stat
    Yes it is. I expected support for the Royal Family to be higher. The fact it isn't is interesting to me.

    What it shows is that a ton of people are indifferent, which I guess is as expected.

    Not everyone is crying into their porridge about the "sneering west coast liberal treatment of OUR Royal Family"
    Is it possible to be both indifferent to the royals and also think Megan is a nasty bit of work? I view the whole Royal Family thing as a bit of a weird and fairly pointless historical thing, but I'd be in no great rush to replace them unless Charles starts trying to throw his weight around (not least because any replacement would doubtless be a stitch up involving grifting politicians).
    That said, Megan seems to be the sort of brash, grasping, californian liberal type I utterly detest, and judging by this interview (I've not watched it, merely hear too much news coverage) is probably a barefaced liar to boot.
    This isn't to say all Yanks are bad - I'd just rather meet a texas redneck oilman with a pickup truck the size of a small house, than some wingey woke has-been of a 3rd rate celeb who happens to have married a minor royal.
    Up for an insomniac cuppa and thought I`d sign on just to say what a cracking post that it.

    Back to bed now.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Hopefully supply will increase after March, 3 million a week in April crawls to a snail's pace on 1st doses.

    Plus Pfizer, Moderna and Novavax. 3m is just from AZ according to the reports.
    Apparently Moderna vaccines are now being shipped from Switzerland to Spain for bottling, and are going from there to the UK.
    Let’s hope they don’t pee in it 😯
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    Would that be the America of Jim Crow and the KKK? Of Operation Condor? Of Mayor Daley and Tammany Hall?

    I lived in America for five formative years. The one thing about America to be certain of is that it contains the worst of mankind as well as the best, incredible beauty as well as trashy ugliness, of high ideas and the lowest common denominator. It has always been both a shining city on the hill, and home of some of the darkest deeds.

    In that, nothing has changed. Indeed I would argue that pretty much all countries have their dark side as well as positive ones. It is just that in America we see more of it.
    The America of the Moon Landings, that's the America I miss. That, for me, was Peak America. Deeply flawed - as you say - still riven with racial divide - but wow, they put a man on the moon: more than 50 fucking years ago. 50 years ago!!! Mobile phones were science fiction. Thruppeny bits were a thing. We all ate cheese in triangles. A man on the fucking moon!??!!

    That's the America that, sadly, seems to have departed this world. Superbly optimistic, absolutely self confident - NOT self hating - truly generous in spirit, if ugly in its power, sometimes. An America ascendant that wanted to help the world, and did so.

    Gone gone gone.
    Get a grip man.

    That same America has revolutionised personal transport with Tesla as they did with Ford. That same America has revolutionised private space travel with SpaceX and other private space companies.

    Not everything is seen through the guise of "woke" or "anti-woke".

    America's economy as a share of global GDP

    https://twitter.com/Scacciavillani/status/1332339682886242304?s=20

    50% to 14%

    A monumental shift. Yes, America has brilliant companies and world-class innovation. But the decline is brisk
    Was it really 50% of global?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,461
    gealbhan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    Would that be the America of Jim Crow and the KKK? Of Operation Condor? Of Mayor Daley and Tammany Hall?

    I lived in America for five formative years. The one thing about America to be certain of is that it contains the worst of mankind as well as the best, incredible beauty as well as trashy ugliness, of high ideas and the lowest common denominator. It has always been both a shining city on the hill, and home of some of the darkest deeds.

    In that, nothing has changed. Indeed I would argue that pretty much all countries have their dark side as well as positive ones. It is just that in America we see more of it.
    The America of the Moon Landings, that's the America I miss. That, for me, was Peak America. Deeply flawed - as you say - still riven with racial divide - but wow, they put a man on the moon: more than 50 fucking years ago. 50 years ago!!! Mobile phones were science fiction. Thruppeny bits were a thing. We all ate cheese in triangles. A man on the fucking moon!??!!

    That's the America that, sadly, seems to have departed this world. Superbly optimistic, absolutely self confident - NOT self hating - truly generous in spirit, if ugly in its power, sometimes. An America ascendant that wanted to help the world, and did so.

    Gone gone gone.
    Get a grip man.

    That same America has revolutionised personal transport with Tesla as they did with Ford. That same America has revolutionised private space travel with SpaceX and other private space companies.

    Not everything is seen through the guise of "woke" or "anti-woke".

    America's economy as a share of global GDP

    https://twitter.com/Scacciavillani/status/1332339682886242304?s=20

    50% to 14%

    A monumental shift. Yes, America has brilliant companies and world-class innovation. But the decline is brisk
    Was it really 50% of global?
    it probably was in the early 1950s.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,031
    Andy_JS said:

    gealbhan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    The royal family will survive, most of us British could not care less what some narcissistic California based multimillionaires trashing the brand which made them say

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1368959692475613186?s=20

    It's not just California, the New York Times, which has developed some weird Fear and Loathing of Britain, possibly because Brexit (but I'm not sure why), is practically having an orgasm
    I have to say I am now feeling about as cold towards America as I have been in my lifetime, though mainly the sneering liberal coastal elite part of it
    Trump and the more extreme forms of BLM and Wokery (exported around the world) have, taken together, made me look at America in a much more critical and unforgiving way. I am rather glad it is a power in swift relative decline, it is half mad and a danger to others.

    I miss the old America, generous, sane and sensible, for all its flaws. But it seems to have gone for good. I just wish the replacement wasn't China.

    Would that be the America of Jim Crow and the KKK? Of Operation Condor? Of Mayor Daley and Tammany Hall?

    I lived in America for five formative years. The one thing about America to be certain of is that it contains the worst of mankind as well as the best, incredible beauty as well as trashy ugliness, of high ideas and the lowest common denominator. It has always been both a shining city on the hill, and home of some of the darkest deeds.

    In that, nothing has changed. Indeed I would argue that pretty much all countries have their dark side as well as positive ones. It is just that in America we see more of it.
    The America of the Moon Landings, that's the America I miss. That, for me, was Peak America. Deeply flawed - as you say - still riven with racial divide - but wow, they put a man on the moon: more than 50 fucking years ago. 50 years ago!!! Mobile phones were science fiction. Thruppeny bits were a thing. We all ate cheese in triangles. A man on the fucking moon!??!!

    That's the America that, sadly, seems to have departed this world. Superbly optimistic, absolutely self confident - NOT self hating - truly generous in spirit, if ugly in its power, sometimes. An America ascendant that wanted to help the world, and did so.

    Gone gone gone.
    Get a grip man.

    That same America has revolutionised personal transport with Tesla as they did with Ford. That same America has revolutionised private space travel with SpaceX and other private space companies.

    Not everything is seen through the guise of "woke" or "anti-woke".

    America's economy as a share of global GDP

    https://twitter.com/Scacciavillani/status/1332339682886242304?s=20

    50% to 14%

    A monumental shift. Yes, America has brilliant companies and world-class innovation. But the decline is brisk
    Was it really 50% of global?
    it probably was in the early 1950s.
    Of course, most of the world's industrial capacity had been destroyed by the Second World War, so it was always going to be hard to stay at that level.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,073
    At the risk of being a cracked record, this isn't really about the Royal family, its about the fact that even the Royals live in terror of the UK's feral media. The country now lives in a separate information space where contending gangs of PR merchants duke it out to see which lies come out on top.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    Looking further afield this will really open the debate about the Monarchy's future in NZ, Australia and Canada especially.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,981
    edited March 2021
    ..
  • Yes of course there is some petty racism in the establishment - but its wider than that. It isn't just about skin colour. It isn't just about marrying a colonist. Their issue - and this ties straight back into their treatment of Harry's mum - is simple:

    They have an old-fashioned view of the world where wifey is a simpering beautiful arm accessory. If wifey breaks the code and starts speaking out with confidence and eloquence, that is the real threat to them. Had Hazza married a white English woman, confident and headstrong and not willing to simper and wear hats, then she would have received the same levels of vitriol. As Diana did.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,743
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Pioneers, pish.

    Not being a celebrity and waffling about your own interests and views is part of being a working Royal, as the Queen herself behaves.

    Meghan wanted the red carpets and sparkly jewellery and found the constraints too restrictive. Which is fair enough. Except she wanted to keep the perks and dispense with most of the ghastly workload, and to return to being a celebrity where she can make money as she wills.

    As for those saying "oh, they didn't get an appearance fee". Sure. How much publicity have they got? Money isn't the only currency.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,981
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I do love the strange bedfellows the Supreme Court makes.

    Today it's Thomas, Alito and Sotomayor vs Roberts.

    Uzuegbunam Case (try saying THAT three times real fast!)

    SCOTUS today ruled 8-1 upholding student's right to sue for nominal damages for original denial (soon rescinded) of right to preach evangelical Christianity on public college campus.

    Liberal interest groups joined with religious conservatives in supporting claim; Roberts dissented because he opposes opening up courts to such actions, in line with previous SCOTUS opinion he wrote as late Justice Scalia's law clerk.

    https://www.vox.com/2021/3/8/22319503/supreme-courts-evangelical-campus-uzuegbunam-preczewski-clarence-thomas-john-roberts
    I think Roberts is right on this one.
    Naturally. Always had you pegged as a rabid anti-Uzuegbunamian. Or is that anti-Uzuegbunamite?

    Roberts's dissent on this case is an excellent, painless way for him to show he is a man of true principle, beholden to neither left nor right (yeah right).

    And NOT just an accurate mathematician, or rather calculator.
    Roberts is a conservative Justice. And he's also a justice who likes to rule on small things, rather than big.

    While I don't agree with him on a lot, I also rather like him. He's a good Chief Justice.

    The justices I really don't like are Thomas and Alito.
    Hmmm. The College's Policy ("you can have speech standing in these 2 places on campus only") is clearly baloney.

    Is Roberts' position this not akin to a case being ruled out of order to avoid a tricky decision.

    But there's always been something bizarre about how the SCOTUS selects cases.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,981

    Yes of course there is some petty racism in the establishment - but its wider than that. It isn't just about skin colour. It isn't just about marrying a colonist. Their issue - and this ties straight back into their treatment of Harry's mum - is simple:

    They have an old-fashioned view of the world where wifey is a simpering beautiful arm accessory. If wifey breaks the code and starts speaking out with confidence and eloquence, that is the real threat to them. Had Hazza married a white English woman, confident and headstrong and not willing to simper and wear hats, then she would have received the same levels of vitriol. As Diana did.

    The monarch is a woman...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,641

    Looking further afield this will really open the debate about the Monarchy's future in NZ, Australia and Canada especially.

    I doubt it will make the slightest difference.

    In Australia the conservative PM Scott Morrison and his more rural and outer suburban supporters will remain monarchists and more sympathetic to the royal family, the Labor opposition leader Albanese and his urban supporters will remain republicans and more sympathetic to the Sussexes.

    In Canada both the PM Trudeau and the leader of the Opposition O'Toole are monarchists so it will make zero difference there with only the third party NDP having an element of republicanism.

    In New Zealand it might make a slight difference when the Queen dies given the Labor PM Ardern is a republican but even there she has said constitutional issues are off the table for now
  • MattW said:

    Yes of course there is some petty racism in the establishment - but its wider than that. It isn't just about skin colour. It isn't just about marrying a colonist. Their issue - and this ties straight back into their treatment of Harry's mum - is simple:

    They have an old-fashioned view of the world where wifey is a simpering beautiful arm accessory. If wifey breaks the code and starts speaking out with confidence and eloquence, that is the real threat to them. Had Hazza married a white English woman, confident and headstrong and not willing to simper and wear hats, then she would have received the same levels of vitriol. As Diana did.

    The monarch is a woman...
    No, she is the sovereign. She doesn't speak her mind, isn't eloquent other than when reading a speech they have given her, doesn't give her own opinions or speak out on her own issues. The Queen is the diametrically opposed position to Diana/Megan/Fergie.
  • I dont think Meghans allegations of racism ring true at all. The fact that she refused to name the person concerned is despicable

    I don't doubt for a second that it wasn't asked. But it's not open racism the way its being portrayed - its jingoism. Henry married a colonist. An actress. That she's black as well just winds up their "but this is the Royal Family" establishment even more.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,641

    MattW said:

    Yes of course there is some petty racism in the establishment - but its wider than that. It isn't just about skin colour. It isn't just about marrying a colonist. Their issue - and this ties straight back into their treatment of Harry's mum - is simple:

    They have an old-fashioned view of the world where wifey is a simpering beautiful arm accessory. If wifey breaks the code and starts speaking out with confidence and eloquence, that is the real threat to them. Had Hazza married a white English woman, confident and headstrong and not willing to simper and wear hats, then she would have received the same levels of vitriol. As Diana did.

    The monarch is a woman...
    No, she is the sovereign. She doesn't speak her mind, isn't eloquent other than when reading a speech they have given her, doesn't give her own opinions or speak out on her own issues. The Queen is the diametrically opposed position to Diana/Megan/Fergie.
    The Queen does what the job is supposed to be about ie public service and duty and quietly getting on with the job without drawing too much attention to oneself.

    Meghan is an actress for whom ego, feeling and narcissism are all
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,388
    MattW said:

    Yes of course there is some petty racism in the establishment - but its wider than that. It isn't just about skin colour. It isn't just about marrying a colonist. Their issue - and this ties straight back into their treatment of Harry's mum - is simple:

    They have an old-fashioned view of the world where wifey is a simpering beautiful arm accessory. If wifey breaks the code and starts speaking out with confidence and eloquence, that is the real threat to them. Had Hazza married a white English woman, confident and headstrong and not willing to simper and wear hats, then she would have received the same levels of vitriol. As Diana did.

    The monarch is a woman...
    In the view of those who Mr P describes, that is a regrettable necessity, due to the accident of birth. George VI was 41 when he came to the throne and his wife in her late 30's. Had they done so a few years earlier it's surely quite probable that they'd have had a third, or even fourth child, in the hope of getting a boy.

    And good morning one and all. A brighter day here today I'm pleased to see.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737
    If, and it’s a big if, MM’s account is true, it makes Harry comes across as a manipulative monster.

    Wife: Darling I can’t go on anymore, I feel like killing myself in the dark of the night. Help me.

    Husband: hmmm. Go and chat to HR tomorrow. Anyway get ready, we’re late for the Albert Hall.

    Wife: don’t you know people who can help me? I thought you were patron of all the major mental health charities?

    Husband: Don’t worry, the lights will be down most of the night. Just make sure you smile in the intermission.
This discussion has been closed.