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Could WH2024 be a re-run of Biden v Trump – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited February 2021 in General
imageCould WH2024 be a re-run of Biden v Trump – politicalbetting.com

in an interview with CNN the 20212 Republican nominee, Mitt Romney, said that if Trump wanted to run again in 2024 he was sure that he would get the nomination. I think that this is right and that’s how the betting markets see it.

Read the full story here

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Comments

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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    First, like the Editions.
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    To answer the header question: yes.

    I think it is highly likely to be honest.

    The Trump nightmare rolls on...
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,964
    I’m getting my popcorn in early.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Biden has incumbency next time round. Though Trump would likely have electoral college bias still.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    If they think Biden is the only one who can beat Trump and he is as robust as he is now, maybe. Though what a position to be in if they think no one else can.

    Hopefully there will be enough court cases to keep Trump busy. But so far, he seems far from being rendered irrelevant as many might have hoped. As some warned.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    They’ll both be crumbling to dust by that point
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    At what point do you draw a line between a second and third waves?

    If this current surge was indeed due to the Kent virus which wasn't an issue in October then surely this is a third wave, just a third wave that very promptly followed the second?

    There was a definite dip in cases late November/early December.
    Of course cases dipped. Because we spent November in National Tier 4/Lockdown with schools open/whatever it was called, I forget. And then, when the situation opened up again in early December, it was followed by a renewed rise in cases.

    The only surprise is that anyone was surprised.
    Afterwards there was a new wave sparked by a new variant that wasn't known about when the first lockdown ended.

    The fact they're two distinct waves should be clear from the regional data. The second wave was centred around the North and Midlands. The Kent wave was sparked rapidly around Kent, London, the East and South.

    Nothing seems to link the waves besides being close in time. The North was still seeing cases falling prior to the Kent variant seeing surging cases spreading from down south.
    Although the details weren't known, the fact that there was a problem was known. There were enough data to show that cases in Kent and the wider SE weren't falling the way they should have done under the November lockdown. And yet the government took away the restrictions anyway. London went into Tier 2, for pity's sake.
    Numbers were low and there's always aome variance. Even if cases are going down nationally some regions may be up briefly on the trend down.

    Only the subsequent data made it clear what was happening in Kent.

    Hindsight is so 2020, can we move into 2021 now?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964
    So. The solution to an election with the 2 oldest candidates ever is...
    An election with 2 four years older!
    Great!
    Ps. The chances of both being alive and in decent enough health to do the job come 2028 must be minimal.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    A QTWTAIN if ever I saw one.
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    Good job Boris has got rid of regional Tiers as we know they don't work.

    Why is Sturgeon planning to go back to regional Levels?
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    I think Trump would only run if he expected to win.

    If Trump expects to win then it would suggest a good performance by the GOP in the 2022 midterms.

    So what would the Dems do in the event of a bad performance in the 2022 midterms ?
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    QTWAIN.

    Trump is a LOSER! SAD!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    QTWTAIN.

    One may be er, unengaged by then.

    One may be in prison.

    If it is Biden v Trump in 2024, the US will have wrested the mantle of "Wold's Most Sclerotic" from the cold, dead hands of the EU.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,609
    RobD said:

    I’m getting my popcorn in early.

    Werthers Originals would be more age-appropriate for that pair.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    On topic.

    No.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,605
    If Trump gets the nomination, which is quite likely if he runs, he won't win the POTUS.

    Which is why he won't run.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,815
    No.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,146
    Hints of a very good poll for the SNP/indy tomorrow!

    Eeesh. They really are teflon.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964
    To put this in a UK age context, this would be like the 2024 GE being between John Major and Neil Kinnock!
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2021
    Rishi's Spring booster: Sunak is planning 'giveaway' budget next week to inject the UK with a post-lockdown boom after No10's slow road to freedom - with help for motorists, hospitality firms and the housing market

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9296877/Rishi-Sunaks-axe-fuel-tax-hike-slash-hospitality-VAT-slashed-upcoming-budget.html

    The magic money forest must be starting to look rather short on trees these days.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Leon said:

    Hints of a very good poll for the SNP/indy tomorrow!

    Eeesh. They really are teflon.

    Or more likely the other parties are all s**t
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    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,980
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Do we reckon there might be any value in laying SNP largest party in the forcoming Scottish Parliament elections - at 1.02?

    That’s 50/1 that they implode in a civil war in the next two months.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/30298288/multi-market?marketIds=1.179554856

    Ask me tomorrow after the Ipsos MORI Scotland poll is published.
    The supposed 80% chance of an SNP overall majority looks the VALUE here. Too high, surely

    https://smarkets.com/event/41793318/politics/uk/scotland/2021-scottish-parliament-election-snp-majority

    It really doesn't take much to tip Holyrood into a hung parliament. After all, Labour designed it that way. With so much uncertainty over Salmondgate,...... 80%?
    Back in 2016 (thanks to Mr Meeks) I backed the SNP to lose their majority at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day, which was pooh poohed by the Cybernats.

    I don't get that same feeling again this year. The Nats can take a major step towards independence if they win a majority in May, so they'll wear a nosepeg and back the SNP.

    I think a First Ministerial resignation before election day might do it.
    Er, you think Sturgeon will resign before the election, and this will be GOOD for the Nats?!

    Hats off to you, for your earlier winning bet, however

    I reckon, right now, it is impossible to say what will happen. It is so volatile. I can see soft YES voters being repelled by Salmond V Sturgeon and going Green, or abstaining, fracturing the SNP vote so they fall short

    And that's another, alternative danger for the Nats: a big drop in turnout. Even if/when they do get an overall maj it might be on a significantly decreased vote, giving Boris all the more reason to say Nah

    It's a hugely entertaining scandal, anyway, and a welcome diversion from Covid

    No, I think if Sturgeon went before election day it might make the 50/1 value/a good trading bet as the market overreacted ridiculously.

    To be honest I'm still reeling from Sturgeon's contribution today which sounded like, and I paraphrase,

    'Yeah Salmond was found not guilty but no smoke without fire eh?'

    Either she's very confident in her position or she's panicking.
    Ah, I misconstrued.

    Sturgeon is definitely panicking. Her remark was an entirely unforced error. There was no reason to say it and it gains her nothing, for those minded to doubt her it looks dodgy, if not defamatory. It will repel or anger neutrals.

    Why is she panicking? Because she is lying, and now she has to defend that lie

    Remember the first few minutes of this notorious interview on Sky. The normally super-assured Sturgeon is pinned down on this lie. Her contorted body language, especially the rapid blinking, says it all.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KtcvSVgf-A&t=219s
    What is remarkable is the extent to which others have put their careers on the line to help protect Sturgeon. Life-long dull, dull, dull public servants going to the extremes where people can rightly point and laugh at their creative contortions - all to prevent the First Minister not having to answer the question: did you lie?

    Because they must know she did. And know that she must resign unless they can extricate her.

    Which only becomes explicable if those at the centre of this web have absolute certainty in their hearts that Salmond cannot be allowed to prevail.
    Yes, that's essentially my reading.

    Which, of course, implies that Salmond DOES have evidence which could being down Sturgeon. Otherwise why these desperate attempts to muffle him? They are scared of him.

    If she goes then the entire house of Nat cards could tumble, very quickly. Because her SNP bigwig husband is in it deeper than her. And so on....
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Do we reckon there might be any value in laying SNP largest party in the forcoming Scottish Parliament elections - at 1.02?

    That’s 50/1 that they implode in a civil war in the next two months.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/30298288/multi-market?marketIds=1.179554856

    Ask me tomorrow after the Ipsos MORI Scotland poll is published.
    The supposed 80% chance of an SNP overall majority looks the VALUE here. Too high, surely

    https://smarkets.com/event/41793318/politics/uk/scotland/2021-scottish-parliament-election-snp-majority

    It really doesn't take much to tip Holyrood into a hung parliament. After all, Labour designed it that way. With so much uncertainty over Salmondgate,...... 80%?
    Back in 2016 (thanks to Mr Meeks) I backed the SNP to lose their majority at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day, which was pooh poohed by the Cybernats.

    I don't get that same feeling again this year. The Nats can take a major step towards independence if they win a majority in May, so they'll wear a nosepeg and back the SNP.

    I think a First Ministerial resignation before election day might do it.
    Er, you think Sturgeon will resign before the election, and this will be GOOD for the Nats?!

    Hats off to you, for your earlier winning bet, however

    I reckon, right now, it is impossible to say what will happen. It is so volatile. I can see soft YES voters being repelled by Salmond V Sturgeon and going Green, or abstaining, fracturing the SNP vote so they fall short

    And that's another, alternative danger for the Nats: a big drop in turnout. Even if/when they do get an overall maj it might be on a significantly decreased vote, giving Boris all the more reason to say Nah

    It's a hugely entertaining scandal, anyway, and a welcome diversion from Covid

    No, I think if Sturgeon went before election day it might make the 50/1 value/a good trading bet as the market overreacted ridiculously.

    To be honest I'm still reeling from Sturgeon's contribution today which sounded like, and I paraphrase,

    'Yeah Salmond was found not guilty but no smoke without fire eh?'

    Either she's very confident in her position or she's panicking.
    Ah, I misconstrued.

    Sturgeon is definitely panicking. Her remark was an entirely unforced error. There was no reason to say it and it gains her nothing, for those minded to doubt her it looks dodgy, if not defamatory. It will repel or anger neutrals.

    Why is she panicking? Because she is lying, and now she has to defend that lie

    Remember the first few minutes of this notorious interview on Sky. The normally super-assured Sturgeon is pinned down on this lie. Her contorted body language, especially the rapid blinking, says it all.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KtcvSVgf-A&t=219s
    What is remarkable is the extent to which others have put their careers on the line to help protect Sturgeon. Life-long dull, dull, dull public servants going to the extremes where people can rightly point and laugh at their creative contortions - all to prevent the First Minister not having to answer the question: did you lie?

    Because they must know she did. And know that she must resign unless they can extricate her.

    Which only becomes explicable if those at the centre of this web have absolute certainty in their hearts that Salmond cannot be allowed to prevail.
    Yes, that's essentially my reading.

    Which, of course, implies that Salmond DOES have evidence which could being down Sturgeon. Otherwise why these desperate attempts to muffle him? They are scared of him.

    If she goes then the entire house of Nat cards could tumble, very quickly. Because her SNP bigwig husband is in it deeper than her. And so on....
    There will be some pretty substantial pension funds in jeopardy if the house of cards falls.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    Anyone else noticed the Nats have gone awful quiet? malcy has absented himself from the field of battle, others are not sticking their heads above the parapet.

    Maybe there is an element of doubt creeping in to their cocksureness? Could they be carrying the scintilla of doubt that they might actually have micro-todgers after all?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985
    dixiedean said:

    To put this in a UK age context, this would be like the 2024 GE being between John Major and Neil Kinnock!

    We can dream :smile:
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    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/24/england-riled-by-tv-umpires-swift-decisions-on-dismal-day-against-india

    I thought we had gone past the stage of ever having home umpires. I thought they all had to be neutral?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964

    Jimmy Carter is eligible for a second term.

    #Carter24

    Indeed. Bill Clinton is younger than both.
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    Rishi's Spring booster: Sunak is planning 'giveaway' budget next week to inject the UK with a post-lockdown boom after No10's slow road to freedom - with help for motorists, hospitality firms and the housing market

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9296877/Rishi-Sunaks-axe-fuel-tax-hike-slash-hospitality-VAT-slashed-upcoming-budget.html

    The magic money forest must be starting to look rather short on trees these days.

    Yes. Lots of giveaways. No tax rises. Maybe thresholds frozen although at 0.5% CPI will save nothing unless they extend the freeze to 2022/2023 when CPI will be higher.

    Will include talk of 'review' of corporation tax, capital gains tax and pensions tax regime. No change for 2021/2022.
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    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    Anyone else noticed the Nats have gone awful quiet? malcy has absented himself from the field of battle, others are not sticking their heads above the parapet.

    Maybe there is an element of doubt creeping in to their cocksureness? Could they be carrying the scintilla of doubt that they might actually have micro-todgers after all?

    I'm quite happy to stick my head above the parapet. The whole thing is a colossal cluster-fuck. It hasn't cut through to the general public yet, but it surely will at some point.

    At this stage I have absolutely no idea how I will vote in May.

    But the SNP's ineptitude over this doesn't dissuade me from the general principle of Scottish independence any more than the general ineptitude of the May government would have dissuaded Brexit voters from that.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    Anything Rishi can do to boost the job market for me in the summer is gratefully received to be honest.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    Rishi's Spring booster: Sunak is planning 'giveaway' budget next week to inject the UK with a post-lockdown boom after No10's slow road to freedom - with help for motorists, hospitality firms and the housing market

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9296877/Rishi-Sunaks-axe-fuel-tax-hike-slash-hospitality-VAT-slashed-upcoming-budget.html

    The magic money forest must be starting to look rather short on trees these days.

    Help for the housing market? Jeez!

    Never mind the 'housing market', what about help for the country - in the form of more houses?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    dixiedean said:

    Jimmy Carter is eligible for a second term.

    #Carter24

    Indeed. Bill Clinton is younger than both.
    He seems frailer than Biden.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079

    Rishi's Spring booster: Sunak is planning 'giveaway' budget next week to inject the UK with a post-lockdown boom after No10's slow road to freedom - with help for motorists, hospitality firms and the housing market

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9296877/Rishi-Sunaks-axe-fuel-tax-hike-slash-hospitality-VAT-slashed-upcoming-budget.html

    The magic money forest must be starting to look rather short on trees these days.

    Help for the housing market? Jeez!

    Never mind the 'housing market', what about help for the country - in the form of more houses?
    Thousands upon thousands of new houses being built up here mate.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    Who's first in that betting market?
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    edited February 2021

    Rishi's Spring booster: Sunak is planning 'giveaway' budget next week to inject the UK with a post-lockdown boom after No10's slow road to freedom - with help for motorists, hospitality firms and the housing market

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9296877/Rishi-Sunaks-axe-fuel-tax-hike-slash-hospitality-VAT-slashed-upcoming-budget.html

    The magic money forest must be starting to look rather short on trees these days.

    Help for the housing market? Jeez!

    Never mind the 'housing market', what about help for the country - in the form of more houses?
    Thousands upon thousands of new houses being built up here mate.
    Well good. My point is the housing market does not need stoking; that helps no one in the long term.

    We have a depressing national addiction to rising house prices.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079

    Rishi's Spring booster: Sunak is planning 'giveaway' budget next week to inject the UK with a post-lockdown boom after No10's slow road to freedom - with help for motorists, hospitality firms and the housing market

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9296877/Rishi-Sunaks-axe-fuel-tax-hike-slash-hospitality-VAT-slashed-upcoming-budget.html

    The magic money forest must be starting to look rather short on trees these days.

    Help for the housing market? Jeez!

    Never mind the 'housing market', what about help for the country - in the form of more houses?
    Thousands upon thousands of new houses being built up here mate.
    Well good. My point is the housing market does not need stoking.
    The problem is that millennials who have only just managed to get on the housing ladder, like myself, will be utterly shafted if house prices crash after being inflated with government support for so long.

    I’ll settle for house price stagnation. Negative equity is terrifying though.
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    On topic:

    No, it will not be a re-run. Trump will be in prison.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,605

    Anything Rishi can do to boost the job market for me in the summer is gratefully received to be honest.

    Massive increases in legal aid?

    I wouldn't hold your breath.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    Foxy said:

    Anything Rishi can do to boost the job market for me in the summer is gratefully received to be honest.

    Massive increases in legal aid?

    I wouldn't hold your breath.
    :D

    A growing economy and business confidence will do for me...
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    But as it is, I am not ninety yet,
    And so must pay my reverence to these men -
    These grand old men, who still can see and talk,
    Who sacrifice each other's sons each day.
    O lord! Let me be ninety yet, I pray.
    Methuselah was quite a youngster when he died.
    Now, vainly weeping, we should say:
    'Another great man perished in his prime'.
    O let me govern, Lord, at ninety-nine !!!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Moderna first out the blocks with a potential Saffer slayer

    https://twitter.com/OphirGottlieb/status/1364711369770065921
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Matahir Mohamed was 94 when he was ousted as PM of Malaysia last year.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    On topic:

    No, it will not be a re-run. Trump will be in prison.

    The american justice system will convict him and exhaust all appeals by then? Seems optimistic.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,605
    Was this covered earlier? Looks like reversion to the mean to me.

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1364663432486801409?s=19
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Rishi's Spring booster: Sunak is planning 'giveaway' budget next week to inject the UK with a post-lockdown boom after No10's slow road to freedom - with help for motorists, hospitality firms and the housing market

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9296877/Rishi-Sunaks-axe-fuel-tax-hike-slash-hospitality-VAT-slashed-upcoming-budget.html

    The magic money forest must be starting to look rather short on trees these days.

    Help for the housing market? Jeez!

    Never mind the 'housing market', what about help for the country - in the form of more houses?
    Not before the local elections.

    Actually in fairness local government typically hates central government for forcing them to approve housing, which all their locals want them to refuse.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

    She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

    Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    IanB2 said:

    Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

    She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

    Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”

    Not exactly a revelatory opinion, not sure it takes a former ambassador to say it.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    edited February 2021

    Rishi's Spring booster: Sunak is planning 'giveaway' budget next week to inject the UK with a post-lockdown boom after No10's slow road to freedom - with help for motorists, hospitality firms and the housing market

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9296877/Rishi-Sunaks-axe-fuel-tax-hike-slash-hospitality-VAT-slashed-upcoming-budget.html

    The magic money forest must be starting to look rather short on trees these days.

    Help for the housing market? Jeez!

    Never mind the 'housing market', what about help for the country - in the form of more houses?
    Thousands upon thousands of new houses being built up here mate.
    Well good. My point is the housing market does not need stoking.
    The problem is that millennials who have only just managed to get on the housing ladder, like myself, will be utterly shafted if house prices crash after being inflated with government support for so long.

    I’ll settle for house price stagnation. Negative equity is terrifying though.
    Nominal house price growth at or below general inflation suits every normal person (Except the "investors") in the housing market.
    As you (implicitly I think) point out when you've got a house all you really want is no hassle remortgaging.
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    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/24/england-riled-by-tv-umpires-swift-decisions-on-dismal-day-against-india

    I thought we had gone past the stage of ever having home umpires. I thought they all had to be neutral?

    Covid rules mean home umpires are allowed.

    Both teams have been given an extra review to make up for that. Which doesn't mean much when the reviews themselves are being rushed by biased home umpires.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,146
    IanB2 said:

    Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

    She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

    Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”

    Bit early to be assessing which nation handled the pandemic better.

    Especially if you come from a country potentially going into its third wave....
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    Rishi's Spring booster: Sunak is planning 'giveaway' budget next week to inject the UK with a post-lockdown boom after No10's slow road to freedom - with help for motorists, hospitality firms and the housing market

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9296877/Rishi-Sunaks-axe-fuel-tax-hike-slash-hospitality-VAT-slashed-upcoming-budget.html

    The magic money forest must be starting to look rather short on trees these days.

    Help for the housing market? Jeez!

    Never mind the 'housing market', what about help for the country - in the form of more houses?
    Thousands upon thousands of new houses being built up here mate.
    Well good. My point is the housing market does not need stoking.
    The problem is that millennials who have only just managed to get on the housing ladder, like myself, will be utterly shafted if house prices crash after being inflated with government support for so long.

    I’ll settle for house price stagnation. Negative equity is terrifying though.
    That's fair enough, I'd settle for stagnation.

    At some point the government has to tackle the crazy issue of billions in housing benefit being paid to subsidise buy-to-let landlords. What the solution is beyond building more homes is beyond me.
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    IanB2 said:

    Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

    She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

    Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”

    That's some great timing Madame Bermann's got there for her tedious observations...
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    edited February 2021

    Rishi's Spring booster: Sunak is planning 'giveaway' budget next week to inject the UK with a post-lockdown boom after No10's slow road to freedom - with help for motorists, hospitality firms and the housing market

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9296877/Rishi-Sunaks-axe-fuel-tax-hike-slash-hospitality-VAT-slashed-upcoming-budget.html

    The magic money forest must be starting to look rather short on trees these days.

    Help for the housing market? Jeez!

    Never mind the 'housing market', what about help for the country - in the form of more houses?
    Thousands upon thousands of new houses being built up here mate.
    Well good. My point is the housing market does not need stoking.
    The problem is that millennials who have only just managed to get on the housing ladder, like myself, will be utterly shafted if house prices crash after being inflated with government support for so long.

    I’ll settle for house price stagnation. Negative equity is terrifying though.
    That's fair enough, I'd settle for stagnation.

    At some point the government has to tackle the crazy issue of billions in housing benefit being paid to subsidise buy-to-let landlords. What the solution is beyond building more homes is beyond me.
    Landlord benefit, one of my biggest gripes. If there was no benefit paid, the number of tenants, landlords and houses doesn't change in theory...
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    edited February 2021
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

    She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

    Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”

    Bit early to be assessing which nation handled the pandemic better.

    Especially if you come from a country potentially going into its third wave....
    We've had our 3rd wave, just saying. Also: UK deaths per million = 1,787; France = 1,305.

    I agree it's too early for conclusions but we've done very badly to date.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2021

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/24/england-riled-by-tv-umpires-swift-decisions-on-dismal-day-against-india

    I thought we had gone past the stage of ever having home umpires. I thought they all had to be neutral?

    Covid rules mean home umpires are allowed.

    Both teams have been given an extra review to make up for that. Which doesn't mean much when the reviews themselves are being rushed by biased home umpires.
    That's just nonsense. Absolutely no reason why they can't do what the NFL do and have remote impartial reviews. Now in the case of the NFL they all go to a central location in NY, but the cricket they could easily pipe that to some remote location e.g. for the India vs England, have a top Australian umpire watching it.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2021
    Foxy said:

    Was this covered earlier? Looks like reversion to the mean to me.

    twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1364663432486801409?s=19

    Yes and if you notice there was also another poll today that had the Tories widen to their biggest lead in ages.

    The trend is fairly clear, was neck and neck and now Tories probably have a small lead due to vaccine roll out, but it is only currently a slim one. But Starmer's own ratings have gone down recently.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,609

    Rishi's Spring booster: Sunak is planning 'giveaway' budget next week to inject the UK with a post-lockdown boom after No10's slow road to freedom - with help for motorists, hospitality firms and the housing market

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9296877/Rishi-Sunaks-axe-fuel-tax-hike-slash-hospitality-VAT-slashed-upcoming-budget.html

    The magic money forest must be starting to look rather short on trees these days.

    Why do motorists need help? Our car has rarely left the drive for a year.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/24/england-riled-by-tv-umpires-swift-decisions-on-dismal-day-against-india

    I thought we had gone past the stage of ever having home umpires. I thought they all had to be neutral?

    Covid rules mean home umpires are allowed.

    Both teams have been given an extra review to make up for that. Which doesn't mean much when the reviews themselves are being rushed by biased home umpires.
    Wait - I can have umpires in my home? Doesn't that blow a hole through -

    Oh.
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    Prosecutors said the government was dropping the driving while intoxicated and reckless driving charges because it did not believe it could meet its burden of proving them in court.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-56185570

    Did they not breathize him?
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    Rishi's Spring booster: Sunak is planning 'giveaway' budget next week to inject the UK with a post-lockdown boom after No10's slow road to freedom - with help for motorists, hospitality firms and the housing market

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9296877/Rishi-Sunaks-axe-fuel-tax-hike-slash-hospitality-VAT-slashed-upcoming-budget.html

    The magic money forest must be starting to look rather short on trees these days.

    Why do motorists need help? Our car has rarely left the drive for a year.
    My parents motor has apparently developed terrible bout of mould, due to lack of usage over the past year.
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    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,980
    edited February 2021

    Anyone else noticed the Nats have gone awful quiet? malcy has absented himself from the field of battle, others are not sticking their heads above the parapet.

    Maybe there is an element of doubt creeping in to their cocksureness? Could they be carrying the scintilla of doubt that they might actually have micro-todgers after all?

    Sorry for not being here much today. We have been extremely busy in the Censor’s office today. Running out of things to redact.

    As an SNP member since 1974, we have been through schisms, but nothing like this! What the Scottish Parliament has been lacking is a competent opposition. Unless the unionist parties have some alternative policies apart from “No to Indyref2”, it’s not going to change. Too many career politicians and civil servants that are more interested in their salaries and pensions than in serving the public. Mind you, it was also bad during the Lab/Lib years. There just wasn’t social media to highlight it. The media are part of the incestuous relationship. Most are unionist. I think they have been giving Sturgeon an easy time because she isn’t seen as a threat to the union. Only now are they having to get involved, otherwise they will be shown up by the UK media.

    It’s all very depressing. It will be even more depressing when the pubs are open, except in Scotland, and hospitality is officially open, but we’re not allowed to travel outside our local authority area, which was the case last time we were in tier 3. It’s not easy being governed by a control freak. 😢
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited February 2021

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

    She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

    Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”

    Bit early to be assessing which nation handled the pandemic better.

    Especially if you come from a country potentially going into its third wave....
    We've had our 3rd wave, just saying. Also: UK deaths per million = 1,787; France = 1,305.

    I agree it's too early for conclusions but we've done very badly to date.
    We've both had very bad outcomes. It might end up, death wise, to be a bit worse for us than them, but even so I don't think someone from the outside looking in will be seeing a vast difference in which was worse between the UK and France.

    I mean, she talks about the UK being alongside the USA and Brazil, who are at 1557 and 1171 respectively, so why she doesn't say she assesses the British handling as among the worst in the world alongside Trump, Bolsanaro and Macron I don't know. Or rather I do know.

    The referencing of Trump and Bolsonaro, even though Brazil's stats are presently better than France if she wants to do a shapshot now, indicates it to be a classic case of 'I don't like politician X, so will compare them to policitian Y who people also do not like, even if it undermines my point'.

    I agree with plenty of what she says there, but we've all heard those points made before, so I can't see it stunning people.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited February 2021
    Leon said:

    Hints of a very good poll for the SNP/indy tomorrow!

    Eeesh. They really are teflon.

    I can't see how she could have behaved in any other way. The idea that AS did nothing wrong is ridiculous. His lawyer admitted he was a woman botherer. Maybe not enough for prison but enough to wreck his reputation which it did.

    When the complaints came in what was she supposed to do? 'Nothing to do with me gov.. I've worked with him for 30 years and he's as pure as the driven snow' would would not have worked. It would have been and looked like a cover up

    The alternative was to tell the complainants how to register their complaints. That was the option she chose and if you think about it there was no other option available.

    'A woman more sinned against than sinning' and becoming more impressive by the day.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,964
    Foxy said:

    Was this covered earlier? Looks like reversion to the mean to me.

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1364663432486801409?s=19

    Yep. One person’s reversion to the mean is another’s outlier.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115

    Anyone else noticed the Nats have gone awful quiet? malcy has absented himself from the field of battle, others are not sticking their heads above the parapet.

    Maybe there is an element of doubt creeping in to their cocksureness? Could they be carrying the scintilla of doubt that they might actually have micro-todgers after all?

    Sorry for not being here much today. We have been extremely busy in the Censor’s office today. Running out of things to redact.

    As an SNP member since 1974, we have been through schisms, but nothing like this! What the Scottish Parliament has been lacking is a competent opposition. Unless the unionist parties have some alternative policies apart from “No to Indyref2”, it’s not going to change. Too many career politicians and civil servants that are more interested in their salaries and pensions than in serving the public. Mind you, it was just also bad during the Lab/Lib years. There just wasn’t social media to highlight it. The media are part of the incestuous relationship. Most are unionist. I think they have been giving Sturgeon an easy time because she isn’t seen as a threat to the union. Only now are they having to get involved, otherwise they will be shown up by the UK media.

    It’s all very depressing. It will be even more depressing when the pubs are open, except in Scotland, and hospitality is officially open, but we’re not allowed to travel outside our local authority area, which was the case last time we were in tier 3. It’s not easy being governed by a control freak. 😢
    Appreciate that reply.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Hints of a very good poll for the SNP/indy tomorrow!

    Eeesh. They really are teflon.

    I can't see how she could have behaved in any other way. The idea that AS did nothing wrong is ridiculous. His lawyer admitted he was a woman botherer. Maybe not enough for prison but enough to wreck his reputation which it did.

    When the complaints came in what was she supposed to do? 'Nothing to do with me gov.. I've worked with him for 30 years and he's as pure as the driven snow' would would not have worked. It would have been and looked like a cover up

    The alternative was to tell the complainants how to register their complaints. That was the option she chose and if you think about it there was no other option available.

    'A woman more sinned against than sinning' and becoming more impressive by the day.
    She's doomed!
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964
    Not increasing fuel duty, for the umpteenth consecutive year, is "help for motorists" only in headlines of the Mail.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,444

    Rishi's Spring booster: Sunak is planning 'giveaway' budget next week to inject the UK with a post-lockdown boom after No10's slow road to freedom - with help for motorists, hospitality firms and the housing market

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9296877/Rishi-Sunaks-axe-fuel-tax-hike-slash-hospitality-VAT-slashed-upcoming-budget.html

    The magic money forest must be starting to look rather short on trees these days.

    Help for the housing market? Jeez!

    Never mind the 'housing market', what about help for the country - in the form of more houses?
    Thousands upon thousands of new houses being built up here mate.
    Well good. My point is the housing market does not need stoking.
    The problem is that millennials who have only just managed to get on the housing ladder, like myself, will be utterly shafted if house prices crash after being inflated with government support for so long.

    I’ll settle for house price stagnation. Negative equity is terrifying though.
    That's fair enough, I'd settle for stagnation.

    At some point the government has to tackle the crazy issue of billions in housing benefit being paid to subsidise buy-to-let landlords. What the solution is beyond building more homes is beyond me.
    Yes, stagnation is very much the least - bad outcome.
    Build more homes, grow the population by less.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/24/england-riled-by-tv-umpires-swift-decisions-on-dismal-day-against-india

    I thought we had gone past the stage of ever having home umpires. I thought they all had to be neutral?

    Covid rules mean home umpires are allowed.

    Both teams have been given an extra review to make up for that. Which doesn't mean much when the reviews themselves are being rushed by biased home umpires.
    That's just nonsense. Absolutely no reason why they can't do what the NFL do and have remote impartial reviews. Now in the case of the NFL they all go to a central location in NY, but the cricket they could easily pipe that to some remote location e.g. for the India vs England, have a top Australian umpire watching it.
    An Aussie watching an England match hardly qualifies as a neutral!
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,231
    Foxy said:

    If Trump gets the nomination, which is quite likely if he runs, he won't win the POTUS.

    Which is why he won't run.

    That was why he decided not to stand for re-election, as people using that argument previously argued.

    I'm pretty sure that Trump actually believes he did win in 2020, and that the election was stolen from him. It's almost necessary for the preservation of his self-image to run again.
  • Options

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/24/england-riled-by-tv-umpires-swift-decisions-on-dismal-day-against-india

    I thought we had gone past the stage of ever having home umpires. I thought they all had to be neutral?

    Covid rules mean home umpires are allowed.

    Both teams have been given an extra review to make up for that. Which doesn't mean much when the reviews themselves are being rushed by biased home umpires.
    That's just nonsense. Absolutely no reason why they can't do what the NFL do and have remote impartial reviews. Now in the case of the NFL they all go to a central location in NY, but the cricket they could easily pipe that to some remote location e.g. for the India vs England, have a top Australian umpire watching it.
    An Aussie watching an England match hardly qualifies as a neutral!
    I know...I was being naughty.
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    Just watched The Cannonball Run on @Jonathan's recommendation. I can only assume he was taking the piss as it's one of the silliest films I've ever seen! And it's definitely unwoke!

    Best bits were the burnup of the Lambo in the intro, and the outtakes.

    I might try Smokey and the Bandit next.
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    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,980

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Hints of a very good poll for the SNP/indy tomorrow!

    Eeesh. They really are teflon.

    I can't see how she could have behaved in any other way. The idea that AS did nothing wrong is ridiculous. His lawyer admitted he was a woman botherer. Maybe not enough for prison but enough to wreck his reputation which it did.

    When the complaints came in what was she supposed to do? 'Nothing to do with me gov.. I've worked with him for 30 years and he's as pure as the driven snow' would would not have worked. It would have been and looked like a cover up

    The alternative was to tell the complainants how to register their complaints. That was the option she chose and if you think about it there was no other option available.

    'A woman more sinned against than sinning' and becoming more impressive by the day.
    She's doomed!
    I wish she would just go. Except that her chosen successor is Angus Robertson, who I sincerely hope doesn’t win in Edinburgh Central. No doubt he will self-id as BAME or disabled so he is at the top of the Lothian list.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,146
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Hints of a very good poll for the SNP/indy tomorrow!

    Eeesh. They really are teflon.

    I can't see how she could have behaved in any other way. The idea that AS did nothing wrong is ridiculous. His lawyer admitted he was a woman botherer. Maybe not enough for prison but enough to wreck his reputation which it did.

    When the complaints came in what was she supposed to do? 'Nothing to do with me gov.. I've worked with him for 30 years and he's as pure as the driven snow' would would not have worked. It would have been and looked like a cover up

    The alternative was to tell the complainants how to register their complaints. That was the option she chose and if you think about it there was no other option available.

    'A woman more sinned against than sinning' and becoming more impressive by the day.
    These are the asinine comments of a man who has read a one-paragraph summary of the entire affair and decided he likes Nicola anyway.

    Roger, dear, it's all a bit more complex and murky than this.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964
    edited February 2021

    Foxy said:

    If Trump gets the nomination, which is quite likely if he runs, he won't win the POTUS.

    Which is why he won't run.

    That was why he decided not to stand for re-election, as people using that argument previously argued.

    I'm pretty sure that Trump actually believes he did win in 2020, and that the election was stolen from him. It's almost necessary for the preservation of his self-image to run again.
    Nor indeed would he have run in 2016.
    Trump thinks he'll win, and thinks he did win, because he thinks he is preternaturally gifted and that everyone else sees it too.
    Just like a textbook narcissistic personality disorder sufferer.
  • Options


    ..
    At some point the government has to tackle the crazy issue of billions in housing benefit being paid to subsidise buy-to-let landlords. ..

    Err, the Cameron government did exactly that, and got a hell of lot of criticism for it from the usual suspects. I don't recall you being a Cameron/Osborne supporter, but welcome to the club!
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,417
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Hints of a very good poll for the SNP/indy tomorrow!

    Eeesh. They really are teflon.

    I can't see how she could have behaved in any other way. The idea that AS did nothing wrong is ridiculous. His lawyer admitted he was a woman botherer. Maybe not bad enough for prison but enough to wreck his public persona.

    When the complaints came in what was she supposed to do? 'Nothing to do with me gov.. I've worked with him for 30 years and he's as pure as the driven snow' would would not have worked. It would have been and looked like a cover up

    The alternative was to tell the complainants how to register their complaints. That was the option she chose and if you think about it there was no other option.

    'A woman more sinned against than sinning' and becoming more impressive by the day
    Roger, I do see how you're finding all this extremely vexing - deepest sympathy and everything, but you have now made several posts about this, none of which bear even a passing resemblance to the facts of the case. It's fine not to be to acquaint yourself with the details - we've all got lives to lead, but that being the case, maybe don't offer us screeds of sententious verdicts about it. It makes you sound rather simple.
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    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

    She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

    Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”

    Bit early to be assessing which nation handled the pandemic better.

    Especially if you come from a country potentially going into its third wave....
    We've had our 3rd wave, just saying. Also: UK deaths per million = 1,787; France = 1,305.

    I agree it's too early for conclusions but we've done very badly to date.
    Almost every western nation has done very badly, in one form or another. We were terrible at early quarantining, done a lot better on vaccines. France's earlier response was more nimble, they're having a mare with the vaccines.

    Let's wait for the final excess deaths data, in a year or so, (when it is, God willing, finally over); only then will we be able to say who was the worst of the worst.

    In GDP terms I accept the UK will suffer more than most.

    Incidentally, this French ambassador is deluded if she thinks "hatred of Germany" consumes Brexiteers.

    I know a lot of Brexiteers, not one of them is Germanophobic in this way. If anything they tend to envy German economic success and stability, and want Britain to be similar. They will express criticism of Germany, but they do the same to every European country. Any "hatred" is reserved for the eurocrats in Brussels.

    They ARE righteously proud of Britain's role in defeating German Fascism, but that is a different matter entirely.



    By contrast, many of the French are ashamed of it, and will never forgive us for helping liberate them, which I suspect explains much of her "views".
  • Options


    ..
    At some point the government has to tackle the crazy issue of billions in housing benefit being paid to subsidise buy-to-let landlords. ..

    Err, the Cameron government did exactly that, and got a hell of lot of criticism for it from the usual suspects. I don't recall you being a Cameron/Osborne supporter, but welcome to the club!
    It would be nice if the government did something to bring welfare under control...we can only hope!
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Hints of a very good poll for the SNP/indy tomorrow!

    Eeesh. They really are teflon.

    I can't see how she could have behaved in any other way. The idea that AS did nothing wrong is ridiculous. His lawyer admitted he was a woman botherer. Maybe not enough for prison but enough to wreck his reputation which it did.

    When the complaints came in what was she supposed to do? 'Nothing to do with me gov.. I've worked with him for 30 years and he's as pure as the driven snow' would would not have worked. It would have been and looked like a cover up

    The alternative was to tell the complainants how to register their complaints. That was the option she chose and if you think about it there was no other option available.

    'A woman more sinned against than sinning' and becoming more impressive by the day.
    These are the asinine comments of a man who has read a one-paragraph summary of the entire affair and decided he likes Nicola anyway.

    Roger, dear, it's all a bit more complex and murky than this.
    A one paragraph summary would be mighty useful, mind.
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    IanB2 said:

    Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

    She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

    Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”

    I had a long chat with her predecessor (a Sarkozy appointment, she was Hollande's pick) after a swanky do at his official residence in around 2013. He was good fun, but I was struck by how superficial his understanding of British attitudes to the EU was. This lady's views sound similarly superficial.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,146

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Hints of a very good poll for the SNP/indy tomorrow!

    Eeesh. They really are teflon.

    I can't see how she could have behaved in any other way. The idea that AS did nothing wrong is ridiculous. His lawyer admitted he was a woman botherer. Maybe not enough for prison but enough to wreck his reputation which it did.

    When the complaints came in what was she supposed to do? 'Nothing to do with me gov.. I've worked with him for 30 years and he's as pure as the driven snow' would would not have worked. It would have been and looked like a cover up

    The alternative was to tell the complainants how to register their complaints. That was the option she chose and if you think about it there was no other option available.

    'A woman more sinned against than sinning' and becoming more impressive by the day.
    She's doomed!
    I wish she would just go. Except that her chosen successor is Angus Robertson, who I sincerely hope doesn’t win in Edinburgh Central. No doubt he will self-id as BAME or disabled so he is at the top of the Lothian list.
    Thankyou for your honest and eloquent replies.

    I've been on social media a lot today, and I am surprised at the vitriol and aggression within and between the various Nat factions. It is not a happy party. Near-open warfare.

    Strange for a party which is utterly ascendant in the polls. And perhaps that is the reason. They have no one else to fight so they fight each other.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,444

    IanB2 said:

    Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

    She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

    Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”

    Yeah. Whatever.

    One of the best things about Brexit is I don't have to give a shit what the likes of a French ex-ambassador thinks of us anymore.
    I was going to say it's amazing how widespread a refusal to understand the British is amongst the French ruling class. But it occurred to me that it is matched by a refusal to understand the British amongst the British ruling class.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964
    edited February 2021


    ..
    At some point the government has to tackle the crazy issue of billions in housing benefit being paid to subsidise buy-to-let landlords. ..

    Err, the Cameron government did exactly that, and got a hell of lot of criticism for it from the usual suspects. I don't recall you being a Cameron/Osborne supporter, but welcome to the club!
    It would be nice if the government did something to bring welfare under control...we can only hope!
    Pensions are by far the majority of welfare.
    Plenty, including many Conservative supporters, have urged the ending of the triple lock.
    Not a sausage. Maybe it isn't really interested in controlling welfare, but is interested in controlling the client vote?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,603
    It'll probably be Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited February 2021

    IanB2 said:

    Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

    She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

    Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”

    I had a long chat with her predecessor (a Sarkozy appointment, she was Hollande's pick) after a swanky do at his official residence in around 2013. He was good fun, but I was struck by how superficial his understanding of British attitudes to the EU was. This lady's views sound similarly superficial.
    He predecessor might have had just a superficial understanding of British attitudes but her assessment strikes me as spot on. An absolute bulls-eye
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,417

    IanB2 said:

    Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

    She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

    Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”

    Yeah. Whatever.

    One of the best things about Brexit is I don't have to give a shit what the likes of a French ex-ambassador thinks of us anymore.
    Surprised you gave a shit before either. It's funny though - what surprised me is that her verdict, as such a seasoned diplomat, is so two-dimensional and cliche-ridden. I suppose I would expect a diplomat to have developed a sense of the people behind the image, so that they could offer genuinely useful commentary to 'back home'. But I suppose that's a bit of an old-fashioned idea of an ambassador - based on ambassadors to the court of Henry VIII and all that. These days Emanuel Macron himself probably talks to Boris more frequently than this woman did.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,231

    IanB2 said:

    Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

    She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

    Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”

    I had a long chat with her predecessor (a Sarkozy appointment, she was Hollande's pick) after a swanky do at his official residence in around 2013. He was good fun, but I was struck by how superficial his understanding of British attitudes to the EU was. This lady's views sound similarly superficial.
    I listened to an interesting podcast recently about the development of diplomacy in Europe in the Early Modern period, which was when the first ambassadors show up, and I think it's striking that they're basically pointless in terms of fulfilling their original roles of representation, information gathering and relationship-building.

    They've been rendered outmoded by technology.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,146
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Hints of a very good poll for the SNP/indy tomorrow!

    Eeesh. They really are teflon.

    I can't see how she could have behaved in any other way. The idea that AS did nothing wrong is ridiculous. His lawyer admitted he was a woman botherer. Maybe not enough for prison but enough to wreck his reputation which it did.

    When the complaints came in what was she supposed to do? 'Nothing to do with me gov.. I've worked with him for 30 years and he's as pure as the driven snow' would would not have worked. It would have been and looked like a cover up

    The alternative was to tell the complainants how to register their complaints. That was the option she chose and if you think about it there was no other option available.

    'A woman more sinned against than sinning' and becoming more impressive by the day.
    These are the asinine comments of a man who has read a one-paragraph summary of the entire affair and decided he likes Nicola anyway.

    Roger, dear, it's all a bit more complex and murky than this.
    A one paragraph summary would be mighty useful, mind.
    It would. Here are 10 paragraphs which do a decent job, tho they miss the most recent shenanigans, when it has appeared that the Scottish legal system is acting politically: in aid of the SNP.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/11/what-exactly-is-the-alex-salmond-controversy-all-about

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    dixiedean said:


    ..
    At some point the government has to tackle the crazy issue of billions in housing benefit being paid to subsidise buy-to-let landlords. ..

    Err, the Cameron government did exactly that, and got a hell of lot of criticism for it from the usual suspects. I don't recall you being a Cameron/Osborne supporter, but welcome to the club!
    It would be nice if the government did something to bring welfare under control...we can only hope!
    Pensions are by far the majority of welfare.
    Plenty, including many Conservative supporters, have urged the ending of the triple lock.
    Not a sausage. Maybe it isn't really interested in controlling welfare, but is interested in controlling the client vote?
    Dixie, I don't consider pensions to be 'welfare' as people have worked hard for them.

    That being said I am in favour of removing the Triple Lock and uplifting pensions by CPI only which is the case for private (final and career average) pensions.
  • Options
    dixiedean said:


    ..
    At some point the government has to tackle the crazy issue of billions in housing benefit being paid to subsidise buy-to-let landlords. ..

    Err, the Cameron government did exactly that, and got a hell of lot of criticism for it from the usual suspects. I don't recall you being a Cameron/Osborne supporter, but welcome to the club!
    It would be nice if the government did something to bring welfare under control...we can only hope!
    Pensions are by far the majority of welfare.
    Plenty, including many Conservative supporters, have urged the ending of the triple lock.
    Not a sausage. Maybe it isn't really about controlling welfare, but the client vote?
    The triple lock is fairly trivial overall, though (although it needs to go in the long term). State pensions are not exactly lavish. And anyway, it was a LibDem policy originally, and it was Labour, not the Conservatives, who committed to keeping it in the 2017 election. Theresa May wanted to get rid of it.

    So this idea that it's a Tory bung to the 'client vote' is a load of baloney.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,417
    In Scotland's case, it's the only way to ensure it gets spent.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964

    dixiedean said:


    ..
    At some point the government has to tackle the crazy issue of billions in housing benefit being paid to subsidise buy-to-let landlords. ..

    Err, the Cameron government did exactly that, and got a hell of lot of criticism for it from the usual suspects. I don't recall you being a Cameron/Osborne supporter, but welcome to the club!
    It would be nice if the government did something to bring welfare under control...we can only hope!
    Pensions are by far the majority of welfare.
    Plenty, including many Conservative supporters, have urged the ending of the triple lock.
    Not a sausage. Maybe it isn't really interested in controlling welfare, but is interested in controlling the client vote?
    Dixie, I don't consider pensions to be 'welfare' as people have worked hard for them.

    That being said I am in favour of removing the Triple Lock and uplifting pensions by CPI only which is the case for private (final and career average) pensions.
    You may not. But it is.
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    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

    She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

    Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”

    I had a long chat with her predecessor (a Sarkozy appointment, she was Hollande's pick) after a swanky do at his official residence in around 2013. He was good fun, but I was struck by how superficial his understanding of British attitudes to the EU was. This lady's views sound similarly superficial.
    He predecessor might have had just a superficial understanding of British attitudes but her assessment strikes me as spot on. An absolute bulls-eye
    Not really. This for example is unmitigated garbage: Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke.
This discussion has been closed.