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What will Scotland’s historic victory Rugby victory do to the push for independence? – politicalbett

SystemSystem Posts: 12,127
edited February 2021 in General
imageWhat will Scotland’s historic victory Rugby victory do to the push for independence? – politicalbetting.com

Judging by the last thread many PBers have spent the last few hours watching the opening matches in this year’s Six Nations.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    edited February 2021
    First like Scotland. As I’m 1/8 Scottish, I’ll claim to be a Scotland fan today.
  • It will do fuck all.
  • Only if Scotland win the world cup things might change.
  • I suspect England v. Scotland in June in association football might have more of an impact.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.
  • FPT
    tlg86 said:

    Well at least the side that has British on their shirts won today.

    You’re Barack Obama and I claim my five pounds.
    Barack Obama wishes he was me.
  • Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    That's just cruel, Mike.
  • The SRU is almost as unionist an organisation as the Celtic board, so this could be seen as a victory for the Union.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895

    I suspect England v. Scotland in June in association football might have more of an impact.

    https://twitter.com/PhilWilliams/status/1358118840010502144
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    What is this nonsense? Is it just an excuse to keep arguments about Scotland going for the rest of the evening?

    That said, there's not much else happening. Nothing good anyway. The Beast from the Bloody East Mark II, as if this Winter wasn't bad enough already. It feels endless...
  • As a Scot who has lived in England since 1982 I am delighted at the rugby result but still horrified at the thought of independence.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    It will do fuck all.

    Ha Ha Ha , suck it up loser
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,270
    edited February 2021
    I doubt it will make the slightest difference at all, especially as most of the Scottish rugby team and their supporters are middle class Unionists.

    It is the Scottish football team's supporters who are mainly nationalists and back independence
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Scott_xP said:
    Depending on how much of a following Cherry has, it feels almost like the Westminster group could declare UDI and sack Blackford.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Depending on how much of a following Cherry has, it feels almost like the Westminster group could declare UDI and sack Blackford.
    4, maybe 5 max?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,270
    edited February 2021

    Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
    Generally southern Tories are more likely to follow rugby union and cricket, northern Labour supporters are more likely to follow soccer and rugby league, though the Tories inroads in the working class red wall mean they likely have a few more of the latter now while Starmer Labour have a few more posh southern Remainers from the former
  • Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
    The working class Northern voters love soccer more, I know this as I speak as a working class Northerner.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    Shocking decision by Mike Dean at Fulham v West Ham. Soucek clearly didn’t mean to catch the Fulham player with his elbow.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    Scott_xP said:
    Depending on how much of a following Cherry has, it feels almost like the Westminster group could declare UDI and sack Blackford.
    4, maybe 5 max?
    Do you think? I suppose because of the mammoth recent growth, the old Salmond guard would be a pretty low percentage.
  • tlg86 said:

    Shocking decision by Mike Dean at Fulham v West Ham. Soucek clearly didn’t mean to catch the Fulham player with his elbow.

    Mike Dean and shocking decision? I am surprised, I mean the Southampton one got overturned and so will this one, I think Dean will be refereeing Championship matches next weekend.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    REKT.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Once again Farrell is poor and England's game plan based on kicking fails in the face of a team who pick an actual full back.

    Farrell has been garbage at international level for 2 years now but pundits and Eddie are in denial.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Alistair said:

    Once again Farrell is poor and England's game plan based on kicking fails in the face of a team who pick an actual full back.

    Farrell has been garbage at international level for 2 years now but pundits and Eddie are in denial.

    Farrell is a flat track bully.
    Stick him behind a dominant pack and bingo.
    If not, not.
    However. In both cases it is the pack that win it. They were monstered today and England have no Plan B when they are. Arguably been like that since Bill Beaumont's day.
  • I suspect England v. Scotland in June in association football might have more of an impact.

    Football is the one true, er,, football. None of this American style running with the ball and stuff!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    edited February 2021

    Scott_xP said:
    Depending on how much of a following Cherry has, it feels almost like the Westminster group could declare UDI and sack Blackford.
    4, maybe 5 max?
    Do you think? I suppose because of the mammoth recent growth, the old Salmond guard would be a pretty low percentage.
    Yep, full of woke brown nosers and nodding donkey persons now.

    PS: growth is going in opposite direction mind you.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    dixiedean said:

    However. In both cases it is the pack that win it. They were monstered today and England have no Plan B when they are. Arguably been like that since Bill Beaumont's day.

    Obligatory Bill Beaumont story

    After he retired and was commentating for the BBC, the morning after the Calcutta Cup match at Murrayfield, in reception of the Grosvenor Hotel, asking if any of the staff had managed to find his trousers...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    No fans so does that count as a win at Twickenham?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
    The working class Northern voters love soccer more, I know this as I speak as a working class Northerner.
    Yes. And they support their home - town team.
  • Thread does not compute.

    International sport other than Cricket does not exist.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Townsend really does hold the whip hand over Eddie.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited February 2021
    Well, I’m 3/4 Scottish by parentage, so cheering the win tonight, (and quietly burning the white jersey I was wearing)! :)

    Best team won, that’s for sure. Poor performance from England, but were still within a try at the end thanks to a couple of missed Scottish kicks. The score was closer than the match.

    I’m convinced the missing crowd makes a huge difference in team sports, there’s been a lot more funny results than usual this year in the football too. Can’t imagine 50,000 reds packed into Anfield of an evening, would have let Liverpool lose to Brighton.

    Eight hours until the cricket’s back on, better get some sleep!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Alistair said:

    Once again Farrell is poor and England's game plan based on kicking fails in the face of a team who pick an actual full back.

    Farrell has been garbage at international level for 2 years now but pundits and Eddie are in denial.

    Eddie is overrated. Wales are in for a similar spanking tomorrow.

    The RFU or WRU should be looking to snaffle Shaun Edwards from France first.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    edited February 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    dixiedean said:

    However. In both cases it is the pack that win it. They were monstered today and England have no Plan B when they are. Arguably been like that since Bill Beaumont's day.

    Obligatory Bill Beaumont story

    After he retired and was commentating for the BBC, the morning after the Calcutta Cup match at Murrayfield, in reception of the Grosvenor Hotel, asking if any of the staff had managed to find his trousers...
    He would sometimes stand near me on the Douglas side watching Wigan RL at the old Central Park.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314

    Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
    The working class Northern voters love soccer more, I know this as I speak as a working class Northerner.
    Proper northern w/c certainly don't call it 'soccer' - 'soccer' is reserved for posh privately educated southern boys, as in "oh I say chaps, shall we have a game of soccer to pretend we're not posh, and then retire to the club house for afternoon tea?".
  • I didn't realise it was the rugby world cup final today.

    The way the Scots are celebrating it really means a lot to them.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
    The working class Northern voters love soccer more, I know this as I speak as a working class Northerner.
    Proper northern w/c certainly don't call it 'soccer' - 'soccer' is reserved for posh privately educated southern boys, as in "oh I say chaps, shall we have a game of soccer to pretend we're not posh, and then retire to the club house for afternoon tea?".
    Depends where you are from. We called it soccer. "Football" was Rugby League.
  • Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
    The working class Northern voters love soccer more, I know this as I speak as a working class Northerner.
    Yes. And they support their home - town team.
    I married a plastic scouser, they are my home team, after a fashion.

    But the reason I support Liverpool, I was a child of the 80s, I wasn't allowed to go to football matches because of the violence and racism, so I only watched football on TV, and there were like 20 matches live a season, and most of them featured Liverpool.
  • malcolmg said:

    It will do fuck all.

    Ha Ha Ha , suck it up loser
    Good to see the Scotland winning with dignity!

    Once in 38 years enjoy it.

    😊😊😊
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,597
    edited February 2021
    I'm 1/2 Scottish, 1/4 Welsh, and 1/4 English, so I get to choose. When it comes to rugby, definitely Scotland. I had a dread throughout that match that Scotland would be the better side for 90% of the game and then concede something stupid with 5 minutes to go. It goes with the territory.

    Like the football, there have been some strange results with the crowds removed. It is surprising how much difference it makes (although the normal home advantage is obvious statistically).

    I'm not sure rugby union is a Nats thing although of course there has always been whistling at Scotland's national anthem when matches were played at Murrayfield.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    I didn't realise it was the rugby world cup final today.

    The way the Scots are celebrating it really means a lot to them.

    They should be reflecting on not getting a bonus point. Could be crucial come the end.
  • Thread does not compute.

    International sport other than Cricket does not exist.

    Phil, I agree with you. (Not words I say very often....in fact not words anyone says very often, but bear with me.)

    Have you seen the exchange odds on the First Test? They are surely wrong.

    We can safely discount India, despite the famous match where India scored 759 in their first innings. That isn't going to happen here.

    So it's either a draw or England win. Draws are fairly rare in five day Test matches these days unless the weather intervenes, and it seems set fair in Chennai for the remainder of the match. So it's down to the pitch, and there were distinct signs it was beginning to deteriorate in the after tea session, much as one would expect.

    I'm not saying India cannot scrape a draw, but England ought to be favorites now. Instead the draw is a fairly firm favorite - 1.55 with Betdaq. England are 3.15.

    I think they should be evens at most. I'm on. What say you?
  • Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
    The working class Northern voters love soccer more, I know this as I speak as a working class Northerner.
    Proper northern w/c certainly don't call it 'soccer' - 'soccer' is reserved for posh privately educated southern boys, as in "oh I say chaps, shall we have a game of soccer to pretend we're not posh, and then retire to the club house for afternoon tea?".
    Well I am not a 'posh privately educated southern boy', we called it soccer to distinguish it from rugger (rugby football)

    Something @dixiedean confirms is the way of the North.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
    The working class Northern voters love soccer more, I know this as I speak as a working class Northerner.
    Proper northern w/c certainly don't call it 'soccer' - 'soccer' is reserved for posh privately educated southern boys, as in "oh I say chaps, shall we have a game of soccer to pretend we're not posh, and then retire to the club house for afternoon tea?".
    Depends where you are from. We called it soccer. "Football" was Rugby League.
    Fair enough. Growing up in Leeds, I never heard it called soccer outside the public schools. Football or footie, nothing else.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,270
    edited February 2021

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
    The working class Northern voters love soccer more, I know this as I speak as a working class Northerner.
    Proper northern w/c certainly don't call it 'soccer' - 'soccer' is reserved for posh privately educated southern boys, as in "oh I say chaps, shall we have a game of soccer to pretend we're not posh, and then retire to the club house for afternoon tea?".
    Depends where you are from. We called it soccer. "Football" was Rugby League.
    Fair enough. Growing up in Leeds, I never heard it called soccer outside the public schools. Football or footie, nothing else.
    Public schoolboys tend to play rugby and cricket more and the former is officially rugby football thus soccer is the more appropriate term, while state school boys tend to play football more and do not need to distinguish soccer from rugby football, probably explains the distinction
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,891
    To paraphrase Joe Biden, "I'm Scottish !"
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
    The working class Northern voters love soccer more, I know this as I speak as a working class Northerner.
    Proper northern w/c certainly don't call it 'soccer' - 'soccer' is reserved for posh privately educated southern boys, as in "oh I say chaps, shall we have a game of soccer to pretend we're not posh, and then retire to the club house for afternoon tea?".
    Well I am not a 'posh privately educated southern boy', we called it soccer to distinguish it from rugger (rugby football)

    Something @dixiedean confirms is the way of the North.
    The only person in Yorkshire to say 'rugger'!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
    The working class Northern voters love soccer more, I know this as I speak as a working class Northerner.
    Proper northern w/c certainly don't call it 'soccer' - 'soccer' is reserved for posh privately educated southern boys, as in "oh I say chaps, shall we have a game of soccer to pretend we're not posh, and then retire to the club house for afternoon tea?".
    Depends where you are from. We called it soccer. "Football" was Rugby League.
    Fair enough. Growing up in Leeds, I never heard it called soccer outside the public schools. Football or footie, nothing else.
    In fairness that was dying out even in the 70's. To my Dad's generation in Wigan football was RL. He called association soccer to distinguish.
    Down the road in Bolton it was just football.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    HYUFD said:
    You'd think with his education he'd know that it is better of two, best of three or more.

    Bozo should resign immediately for such a grammatical howler.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,270
    edited February 2021
    Not impossible if they pick up a lot of list votes from Unionist Tory, Labour and LD voters and the SNP win most of the constituency MSPs again
  • In more normal times - crowds, passion, travelling fans, excitement in the workplace, national buzz - maybe.

    Not this time.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    edited February 2021
    HYUFD said:
    Poor game though.
    Not much football played! :smiley:
  • Thread does not compute.

    International sport other than Cricket does not exist.

    Phil, I agree with you. (Not words I say very often....in fact not words anyone says very often, but bear with me.)

    Have you seen the exchange odds on the First Test? They are surely wrong.

    We can safely discount India, despite the famous match where India scored 759 in their first innings. That isn't going to happen here.

    So it's either a draw or England win. Draws are fairly rare in five day Test matches these days unless the weather intervenes, and it seems set fair in Chennai for the remainder of the match. So it's down to the pitch, and there were distinct signs it was beginning to deteriorate in the after tea session, much as one would expect.

    I'm not saying India cannot scrape a draw, but England ought to be favorites now. Instead the draw is a fairly firm favorite - 1.55 with Betdaq. England are 3.15.

    I think they should be evens at most. I'm on. What say you?
    I agree with your logic.

    Three more days on a deteriorating pitch with good weather ought to be enough to get 20 wickets. I'd think England would be fair value at about 1.8
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    What's the implications for Scottish independence of Martin Gould knocking Alan McManus out of the Snooker Shoot-Out?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357
    edited February 2021
    Wifey was at Gabrielle's first ever live performance....

    (Got her straight away.)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    History was dressed in tartan in southwest London today. Scotland had not won at Twickenham for 38 years, but they made history of a different sort as well because this was the biggest 11-6 victory in the history of the sport, surely.

    England were absolutely ghastly. They had no towering figure such as Jonny Gray, who may have had a lifetime game. They had no Watson, and even George Turner, the third-choice Scottish hooker, had a field day. And Russell and Redpath, despite the pressure and the wet weather, were just sublime. Far too much rugby these days is machine-like, but here were thinking rugby players.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-stunned-at-twickenham-by-brilliant-scots-jdhz9vcc6
  • HYUFD said:

    Not impossible if they pick up a lot of list votes from Unionist Tory, Labour and LD voters and the SNP win most of the constituency MSPs again
    I suppose there's no point in asking if you lads want a bet?
  • Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
    The working class Northern voters love soccer more, I know this as I speak as a working class Northerner.
    Proper northern w/c certainly don't call it 'soccer' - 'soccer' is reserved for posh privately educated southern boys, as in "oh I say chaps, shall we have a game of soccer to pretend we're not posh, and then retire to the club house for afternoon tea?".
    Well I am not a 'posh privately educated southern boy', we called it soccer to distinguish it from rugger (rugby football)

    Something @dixiedean confirms is the way of the North.
    The only person in Yorkshire to say 'rugger'!
    These days I call it hand egg or proper rugby.
  • dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile in the red wall, the rugby season hasn't started yet.

    Rugby league isn't proper rugby, no poncey fifth tackle rule in Union.

    Honestly rugby league is as much proper rugby as American football is.
    There was me making a politically insightful comment on the sporting interests of working class northern voters, and you think I'm having a go at Union.

    That was merely the subtext.
    The working class Northern voters love soccer more, I know this as I speak as a working class Northerner.
    Proper northern w/c certainly don't call it 'soccer' - 'soccer' is reserved for posh privately educated southern boys, as in "oh I say chaps, shall we have a game of soccer to pretend we're not posh, and then retire to the club house for afternoon tea?".
    Depends where you are from. We called it soccer. "Football" was Rugby League.
    Football should be played with the feet.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Yet more bad news, although at least something to give those arguing the toss over which bits of the UK are doing slightly better or worse in the vaccine race pause for thought.

    February 15th, the same day when the UK Government hopes to have at least offered a jab to all frontline health and social care workers, all of the clinically extremely vulnerable and everybody over 70, the Irish Government plans to start vaccinating the over 85s. They are hopeful that they'll have cleared them (and presumably moved on to the next age group down) by March 8th.

    The available supplies of Pfizer and Moderna are being directed towards the task. They have also got an AZ delivery coming imminently, which will help them to make progress on healthcare workers as well.

    As with the UK Government, ministers in Dublin have said that the limiting factor on the vaccination drive is supply, but they've declared that they're satisfied with the EU process and will be making no effort to obtain vaccines outside of it. Now, to be fair, it's probably too late to do anything about that anyway so there's little point in rocking the Euroboat, but all the same it's rather sad.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scott_xP said:

    History was dressed in tartan in southwest London today. Scotland had not won at Twickenham for 38 years, but they made history of a different sort as well because this was the biggest 11-6 victory in the history of the sport, surely.

    England were absolutely ghastly. They had no towering figure such as Jonny Gray, who may have had a lifetime game. They had no Watson, and even George Turner, the third-choice Scottish hooker, had a field day. And Russell and Redpath, despite the pressure and the wet weather, were just sublime. Far too much rugby these days is machine-like, but here were thinking rugby players.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-stunned-at-twickenham-by-brilliant-scots-jdhz9vcc6

    Russell was not fucking sublime! He was the pits.

    Redpath was utter quality though.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Scott_xP said:
    And off we go again. I should've known. It's the hope that kills you (if Covid doesn't do it first.) That's another year of lockdown to add on (six months whilst they dick around modifying the vaccine, followed by another Winter) and by the time that's done the bastard fucker will have changed again.

    This is never going to end, is it?
  • Joe Biden Cabinet - Current State o' Play

    US Senate has confirmed 6 out of 23 Biden cabinet nominees.

    Blinken at State, Yellen at Treasury, Austin at Defense and Haines at NSA were confirmed last week; this week's confirmations are:

    > Pete Buttigeg for Secretary of Transportation, by vote of 86-13
    > Alejandro Mayorkas for Secretary of Homeland Security, by vote of 56-43

    The nays against Mayorkas were the highest yet recorded for (or rather against) any Biden cabinet choice. Why? Because he was in charge of DACA under Obama, and is Biden's point man re: immigration; thus a nay vote against AM is an easy way of showing opposition to immigration reform, without actually preventing or even delaying having a presidential appointee in this important post.

    On the flip side, my gut feeling is that MANY senators of both great (and not so great) parties are eager to get a chunk of increased transportation infrastructure spending anticipated under the Biden administration.

    With respect to votes AGAINST Uncle Joe's cabinet picks,

    > Only US Senator to vote against all six? You guessed it - Josh "Bloody Hands" Hawley
    > Voting against 5 of 6 = Marsha Blackburn, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee
    > Voting against 4 of 6 = Cotton, Marshall, Paul, Rick Scott, Shelby, Tuberville
    > Voting against 3 of 6 = Barrasso, Boozman, Braun, Cassidy, Cramer, Ernst, Hagerty, Hoeven, Lankford, Risch, Tim Scott
    > Voting against 2 of 6 = Daines, Kennedy, Lunmis, Rubio
    > Voting against 1 of 16 = Blunt, Burr, Cornyn, Crapo, Fischer, Graham, Grassley, Hyde-Smith, Inhofe, Johnson, McConnell, Moran, Rounds, Sasse, Sullivan, Thune, Tillis, Wicker, Young (Ind)

    So far, number of Democratic senators voting against Biden nominees = 0

    Check out Politico.com article below.

    https://www.politico.com/interactives/2021/joe-biden-cabinet-members-confirmations-list/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
  • BioNTech/Pfizer said their vaccine was slightly less effective in a lab study using a pseudovirus with some mutations from the 501Y.V2 variant, but have not published results of tests against the variant itself.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357
    Scott_xP said:
    And the Brazilian strain? And the Bristol? And the Liverpool?
  • Scott_xP said:
    And off we go again. I should've known. It's the hope that kills you (if Covid doesn't do it first.) That's another year of lockdown to add on (six months whilst they dick around modifying the vaccine, followed by another Winter) and by the time that's done the bastard fucker will have changed again.

    This is never going to end, is it?
    It is and soon.

    We're likely going to need booster shots later in the year but we expected that already.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Scott_xP said:
    And off we go again. I should've known. It's the hope that kills you (if Covid doesn't do it first.) That's another year of lockdown to add on (six months whilst they dick around modifying the vaccine, followed by another Winter) and by the time that's done the bastard fucker will have changed again.

    This is never going to end, is it?
    Just gonna have to vaccinate everyone twice a year, 6 months apart, or something.
  • Scott_xP said:
    And the Brazilian strain? And the Bristol? And the Liverpool?
    Haven't thousands of variants been detected ?

    And doubtless many more exist which haven't been detected whether or not they have subsequently died out.

    More evidence that the best strategy is stop international travel until covid has been crushed throughout the world.
  • Scott_xP said:
    And off we go again. I should've known. It's the hope that kills you (if Covid doesn't do it first.) That's another year of lockdown to add on (six months whilst they dick around modifying the vaccine, followed by another Winter) and by the time that's done the bastard fucker will have changed again.

    This is never going to end, is it?
    Bad news indeed. However, perhaps NOT as bad as you think. Because a) this study may not be final word; and b) even if it is (more or less) improvements to AZn and availability of alternatives will reduce the time-frame substantially.

    God willing & the cricks don't rise!
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Scott_xP said:
    And off we go again. I should've known. It's the hope that kills you (if Covid doesn't do it first.) That's another year of lockdown to add on (six months whilst they dick around modifying the vaccine, followed by another Winter) and by the time that's done the bastard fucker will have changed again.

    This is never going to end, is it?
    Just gonna have to vaccinate everyone twice a year, 6 months apart, or something.
    Forget airport quarantine, we're going to have to give up most incoming passenger flights. Anyone arriving in the country needs to be locked up under armed guard for a month. This is the end of tourism - permanently. No more foreign holidays. We'll have to manage without truckers going in and out of the Channel ports, even if this means shortages of some foods, outright rationing of others and the crippling of whole industries, until the container capacity can be built to take over. Otherwise we are just going to be stuck in lockdown for fucking ever. Might as well slit your throat and get it over with than live through that eternal fucking misery.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:
    Still gives protection from severe symptoms, hospitalisation and death. I think that's fine and part of why we've got the CureVac deal is as a long term way to beat variants.
    Yep. It's fine.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    Scott_xP said:
    And off we go again. I should've known. It's the hope that kills you (if Covid doesn't do it first.) That's another year of lockdown to add on (six months whilst they dick around modifying the vaccine, followed by another Winter) and by the time that's done the bastard fucker will have changed again.

    This is never going to end, is it?
    Just gonna have to vaccinate everyone twice a year, 6 months apart, or something.
    Forget airport quarantine, we're going to have to give up most incoming passenger flights. Anyone arriving in the country needs to be locked up under armed guard for a month. This is the end of tourism - permanently. No more foreign holidays. We'll have to manage without truckers going in and out of the Channel ports, even if this means shortages of some foods, outright rationing of others and the crippling of whole industries, until the container capacity can be built to take over. Otherwise we are just going to be stuck in lockdown for fucking ever. Might as well slit your throat and get it over with than live through that eternal fucking misery.
    No. Before we did all those, we'd prepare more Nightingales, recruit health workers, and let it rip.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:
    Still gives protection from severe symptoms, hospitalisation and death. I think that's fine and part of why we've got the CureVac deal is as a long term way to beat variants.
    Possibly. For about the next five seconds, until the next mutant form cricket bats us around the head.

    Scott_xP said:
    And the Brazilian strain? And the Bristol? And the Liverpool?
    Haven't thousands of variants been detected ?

    And doubtless many more exist which haven't been detected whether or not they have subsequently died out.

    More evidence that the best strategy is stop international travel until covid has been crushed throughout the world.
    Yes. I don't fucking care if Brits are stuck abroad. Fuck em for travelling in the first place. They can come back when there's room in the quarantine centres to accommodate them, as the Australians have done. And the cost of halting business travel is certainly minuscule compared with that of spending years and years and years in fucking lockdown.

    We should cut ourselves off from the rest of the world, as thoroughly and completely as possible. Raise the drawbridge, and keep it raised.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Also, presumably we don't yet know what the AZN vaccine does in terms of limiting transmission of the SA variant.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,891
    We should probably keep the general limiting measures in place till everyone has had one shot of a vaccine. We don't want this Saffer variant becoming dominant.
  • Yep urgent curtailing of international travel into UK plus really rigorous enforcement of quarantine for any arrivals. Probably lorry cab/ driver swapping scheme needs to be looked at. If that works and we nip SA variant already in the country in the bud we should still manage internal relaxation of restrictions. Until new versions of vaccine pipeline is proven we have to try hard to restrict arrival of variants.
  • MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:
    Still gives protection from severe symptoms, hospitalisation and death. I think that's fine and part of why we've got the CureVac deal is as a long term way to beat variants.
    Possibly. For about the next five seconds, until the next mutant form cricket bats us around the head.

    Scott_xP said:
    And the Brazilian strain? And the Bristol? And the Liverpool?
    Haven't thousands of variants been detected ?

    And doubtless many more exist which haven't been detected whether or not they have subsequently died out.

    More evidence that the best strategy is stop international travel until covid has been crushed throughout the world.
    Yes. I don't fucking care if Brits are stuck abroad. Fuck em for travelling in the first place. They can come back when there's room in the quarantine centres to accommodate them, as the Australians have done. And the cost of halting business travel is certainly minuscule compared with that of spending years and years and years in fucking lockdown.

    We should cut ourselves off from the rest of the world, as thoroughly and completely as possible. Raise the drawbridge, and keep it raised.
    Hopefully it will put a dampener on any ideas about booking holidays in Spain etc.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Pulpstar said:

    We should probably keep the general limiting measures in place till everyone has had one shot of a vaccine. We don't want this Saffer variant becoming dominant.

    1. Lockdown until about July
    2. About five minutes of freedom
    3. Disease rips through all the AZ recipients, tsunami of sickness, hospitals stuffed with gasping bodies, NHS overwhelmed panic, lockdown until Spring 2022

    Bloody great.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited February 2021

    Scott_xP said:
    No-one in the group for 1,000 who got the AZ vaccine suffered a severe case and/or was hospitalised or died, although they haven't yet reached conclusions yet on just how effective it is in preventing such severe cases.

    I'll settle for being protected against anything worse than a severe case of the flu.
    I can't read through the paywall. Was that with single or boosted dose? The lab work on Pfizer found that the booster made a difference against a laboratory virus.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    Pulpstar said:

    We should probably keep the general limiting measures in place till everyone has had one shot of a vaccine. We don't want this Saffer variant becoming dominant.

    1. Lockdown until about July
    2. About five minutes of freedom
    3. Disease rips through all the AZ recipients, tsunami of sickness, hospitals stuffed with gasping bodies, NHS overwhelmed panic, lockdown until Spring 2022

    Bloody great.
    I think that is over egging it. The AZN does seem to minimise severe disease.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357

    Scott_xP said:
    And the Brazilian strain? And the Bristol? And the Liverpool?
    Haven't thousands of variants been detected ?

    And doubtless many more exist which haven't been detected whether or not they have subsequently died out.

    More evidence that the best strategy is stop international travel until covid has been crushed throughout the world.
    Kinda my point. Science will sort out the variants. Just get jabbed. The only jab that doesn't save lives is the one not delivered into an arm. "OMG, We're all going to die from [insert variant of choice]" just gives ammo to the "there's no point, we're all going to die from one variant or other/it's all a hoax, they have to keep inventing variants to scare you shitless" anti-vaxxers.
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