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The longer the EU row goes on the better it is for Hancock and Johnson – politicalbetting.com

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  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    You have to say that Boris and his admirers in the media are shrewd and ruthless operators. Being a safe pair or hands and cool under pressure was one of Sir Keir's great selling points. Get it circulating that he's cracked up and you seriously damage the brand - straight out of the New Labour handbook.
    Yep, if Mr. Cool & Forensic starts cracking up under pressure, what's got left? Nothing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,220
    alex_ said:

    I was reading some articles from October/November time about the vaccine technology involved in Pfizer/Moderna.

    eg. https://www.jpost.com/health-science/could-an-mrna-vaccine-be-dangerous-in-the-long-term-649253

    Interesting to note that the balance of the article was that the potential risks in the long term didn't outweigh the short term risks of the virus, but in part because they thought there was no prospect of "classical" vaccines being developed for many years.

    Well in AZ we do have a "classical" vaccine...

    The concerns about mRNA expressed in the article didn't have much if any scientific basis - as the second commenter quoted made clear.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    kinabalu said:

    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    You don't have to look that hard to find Starmer statements / actions at odds with his current inage. I mean he played up how much of a leftie he was during the leadership race, then immediately switched.

    Starmer is a "nice guy" but views politics as a real-time tactical challenge of presentation and triangulation.

    He risks losing everyone with that approach.
    And the risk isn't all to his right. Too much RW chasing could lose support in the MML (which is bigger than the RW). For example, on PT you told me that in order to win an election these days a Labour Party core value needs to be not just "loving your country" - which makes me squirm a bit but I can totally live with - but something rather more and rather different.

    It must be OPENLY loving your country (you said).

    I don't like that. I don't like that one bit. If that becomes a core Labour value I won't be voting Labour.
    Lol - there goes the majority. Purity, purity and keep the naffs out.
    You seem to make the same response regardless of what you're responding to. It's a neat trick. Frees up much time, I imagine.

    Just in your case - why would I waste the time?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,351

    Selebian said:

    Some pretty dodgy data presentation by ScotGov - also omits to thank British Army:

    https://twitter.com/Political_AlanS/status/1356707373646303236?s=20

    "Greater depth" - does that mean the jabbers in Scotland jab a bit harder? :open_mouth:
    Is there any evidence that, say, Scotland have given more vaccinations to the over-85s than in England?

    It would be worth knowing, if so.
    Last I heard it was 98% vaccinated in Scotland and 94% "offered" in England, who knows what the clowns in Westminster count that as, as we saw by tests it could be anything.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    Floater said:
    No, just a certain kind of lunatic, looking for attention.

    Trying to make the most absurdly shocking statement possible.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    I don't think Keir "boring" Starmer being seen to have a bit of personality is going to do him any harm.
  • Floater said:
    No, just a certain kind of lunatic, looking for attention.

    Trying to make the most absurdly shocking statement possible.
    But catnip for the dim..
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,440

    Would like to see every day being min 400k.
    I'd take that as an average. Trend this week is every day more than the equivalent last week. I have said previously that it is misleading to regard the days reported vaccinations as anything other that an estimate. I've no doubt the overall numbers, but the details of collating all the information to report.
  • tlg86 said:

    /twitter.com/C4Press/status/1356965091065888769

    I wonder why Sky and BT have effectively passed in this? Perhaps like the US PGA Golf a few years back, Sky just wouldn't give them what they wanted and it ended up being streamed to basically nobody on some weird site.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    'Quick, the Natz are coming up on the rail in the vaccine race!'
    Looking at the speed of them it must be a 3 legged race.......
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    JonathanD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    Skoda VRS tho'. With blue lights on.

    Lower maintenance and quicker.

    Yes, there is a big advantage to the AZ one being relatively cheap, although I think the 3 month gap in dosing is a problem. We probably need to be looking at developing a UK mRNA vaccine however since that seems to be the future.
    I think we are - saw it upthread.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,351
    MattW said:

    JonathanD said:

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    Have you seen the latest results from the AZ trials?
    Yes, 82.4% for AZ versus 95% for Pfizer.
    Wont matter when we're cruising to the pub in our Skodas whilst they are still waiting in their homes.
    Nothing wrong with a Skoda.

    My Skoda was about 10k less than the very similar but smaller VW, and 20k less for the similar Audi, which is so small I can't even get 10 house doors in it, flat.
    You car 10 house doors on a regular basis
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    Mango said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Of course you can be left-wing and patriotic. Jim Callaghan, Harold Wilson, Clement Atlee, George Orwell, etc.

    Telling that one has to reach for figures from 40, 50, and 80 years ago...
    Yep. Before we became an oligarchy.

    Now anybody who threatens the ruling class's grip on assets is attacked on "patriotic" grounds (I suppose they always were, but now there's really no right or power of reply).

    It works, of course. Look at the dumbass flag-waving even on here, among people who are quite erudite and measured on many matters.
    Unfortunately for your thesis, the Corbyn period demonstrated quite clearly that the types who want to steal our assets are very often also anti-patriots. Tell the British that you want to take their cash and their country, and those supposed 'few' will crush you at the ballot box in their millions.
    Well that's a bit of revolving bow-tie nonsense. In 17 it was close and 19 was a quasi rerun of the Brexit referendum in a climate where the only question was how big the Con majority would be.
    Except for the fact that Corbyn's best seat total barely beat New Labour's worst, and the Tory result in that election was better than what Cameron achieved against Brown.

    And the main thing that cost May her majority and made it close at all? Promising to steal people's assets. We just don't like it.
  • felix said:

    JonathanD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    Skoda VRS tho'. With blue lights on.

    Lower maintenance and quicker.

    Yes, there is a big advantage to the AZ one being relatively cheap, although I think the 3 month gap in dosing is a problem. We probably need to be looking at developing a UK mRNA vaccine however since that seems to be the future.
    I think we are - saw it upthread.
    Inperial are...and they think they have the instability issue cracked. But are miles off taking it from lab to mass production.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    AlistairM said:

    England only vaccine data

    Region of Residence 1st dose 2nd dose Cumulative Total Doses to Date
    Total 300,173 1,386 301,559
    East Of England 33,762 261 34,023
    London 36,363 280 36,643
    Midlands 66,204 165 66,369
    North East And Yorkshire 35,538 226 35,764
    North West 39,636 131 39,767
    South East 53,690 187 53,877
    South West 33,396 130 33,526

    ~40K up on last week. There is a very clear pattern though so far of numbers struggling Sunday to Tuesday (possibly, Wednesday too) and then ramping up. Are deliveries received every Wednesday?! If that's the case then they need to try and get some Sunday deliveries made.

    The delivery point is interesting, especially given the dats is dayvof reporting. How are they distributed? In bulk to gov, who takes a few days to then spread around all the sites?
    I wonder how much of it is a reporting effect? Some sites maybe report once every few days, or maybe even once per week?
    I would be surprised by once a week - but it might be that we are seeing individual campaigns.

    My GP, for example, did a long weekend shutdown last weekend and turned the surgery into a 100% COVID vaccination setup, for 4 days. Did she report the numbers during, or just at the end?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Floater said:
    In extremely confused MSM news, it now transpires that our hero's demise may been caused by an infection he contracted whilst in the care of our wonderful NHS.

    Which.....er.......he campaigned so heroically to fund.

    Oh......umm......
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Would like to see every day being min 400k.
    Agreed. Today's looks set to be bang on the required rate once the Irish numbers arrive, which is slightly underwhelming TBH.

    Not bad, but not stellar.

    That said, the weather was bloody difficult up north yesterday so not a bad return given the volume of snow!
  • I confess... having Sir Keir down for having a bit of a violent streak I did not have in my 2021 bingo.

    First angry Corbyn, and now angry Keith...
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    malcolmg said:

    Selebian said:

    Some pretty dodgy data presentation by ScotGov - also omits to thank British Army:

    https://twitter.com/Political_AlanS/status/1356707373646303236?s=20

    "Greater depth" - does that mean the jabbers in Scotland jab a bit harder? :open_mouth:
    Is there any evidence that, say, Scotland have given more vaccinations to the over-85s than in England?

    It would be worth knowing, if so.
    Last I heard it was 98% vaccinated in Scotland and 94% "offered" in England, who knows what the clowns in Westminster count that as, as we saw by tests it could be anything.
    It means what is says. Everyone offered could have had the jab, but they didn't want to. Given that England is a lot more diverse than Scotland it's a dead cert that England will have far more people who refuse the jab on religious or cultural grounds. In the end I expect England will have the lowest vaccination rate in the UK due to this issue. I still expect that the rate overall in England, and the UK as well, will be high by any standard.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    kinabalu said:

    Mango said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Of course you can be left-wing and patriotic. Jim Callaghan, Harold Wilson, Clement Atlee, George Orwell, etc.

    Telling that one has to reach for figures from 40, 50, and 80 years ago...
    Yep. Before we became an oligarchy.

    Now anybody who threatens the ruling class's grip on assets is attacked on "patriotic" grounds (I suppose they always were, but now there's really no right or power of reply).

    It works, of course. Look at the dumbass flag-waving even on here, among people who are quite erudite and measured on many matters.
    Unfortunately for your thesis, the Corbyn period demonstrated quite clearly that the types who want to steal our assets are very often also anti-patriots. Tell the British that you want to take their cash and their country, and those supposed 'few' will crush you at the ballot box in their millions.
    Well that's a bit of revolving bow-tie nonsense. In 17 it was close and 19 was a quasi rerun of the Brexit referendum in a climate where the only question was how big the Con majority would be.
    It's just as valid to say that 19 was not close and that 17 was a quasi rerun of the Brexit referendum in a climate where half the electorate wanted to give the Tories a good kicking by any means necessary, and the usual non-voters who swung the referendum for Leave went back to their usual patterns of Not Turning Up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    JonathanD said:

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    Have you seen the latest results from the AZ trials?
    Yes, 82.4% for AZ versus 95% for Pfizer.
    Wont matter when we're cruising to the pub in our Skodas whilst they are still waiting in their homes.
    Nothing wrong with a Skoda.

    My Skoda was about 10k less than the very similar but smaller VW, and 20k less for the similar Audi, which is so small I can't even get 10 house doors in it, flat.
    You car 10 house doors on a regular basis
    Just keep an open mind on the subject.
  • Andy_JS said:
    At this rate, some EU country is going to say only 18-21 year olds can have it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    edited February 2021
    I'll publish the vaxometer once I get the NI numbers confirmed. Why is Belfast so bloody slow providing them? They have the smallest population of all four nations!
  • 'Quick, the Natz are coming up on the rail in the vaccine race!'
    And about time, but not by much.....meanwhile,

    The behaviour of the Government was, in my view, a disgrace. But actions have consequences. Accountability is at the heart of the Scottish Parliament. The rule of law requires that those who have acted illegally are held to account. It is now the job of this Committee to resolve how that is best done.

    Alex Salmond
    27th January 2021
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    kle4 said:
    Parameters carefully selected to remove countries with higher death rates.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Floater said:
    In extremely confused MSM news, it now transpires that our hero's demise may been caused by an infection he contracted whilst in the care of our wonderful NHS.

    Which.....er.......he campaigned so heroically to fund.

    Oh......umm......
    My dad died from covid he caught in hospital

    I can't blame them for that - are you saying I should?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    malcolmg said:

    Gove was floundering on GMS this morning , could not answer the question re vaccines , usual Tory lies where they count the fact that they have it on a spreadsheet as it has been done. They don't have the bollox to admit they just wanted to get all the low hanging fruit vaccinated to divert from their appalling record and the massive daily death rate. Union Jack had same issue on Sunday re availability of vaccine.

    NS: "That's a deliberate choice the Government has made. It is a legitimate choice to have first of all focused on overall numbers, but if that is at the expense of the uptake in the groups most clinically vulnerable, it's not a choice I would've wanted to make."
    NS: "I heard Michael Gove on the radio this morning not able or willing to give a figure for how many residents in care homes in England have actually been vaccinated as opposed to being offered the vaccine."
    NS: "Scotgov has followed an approach that very deliberately concentrated on getting the most clinically vulnerable groups vaccinated first, and achieving as high an uptake in these groups as possible."

    It has been confirmed that 'offered' means a GP going in to the actual home with actual vaccines and offering. One assumes that the situation in Scotland was the same - unless the jabbers in Scotland were under order to forcibly vaccinate the biddies whether they wanted it or not.

    If Care home uptake has been higher in Scotland, that reflects well on the good sense of the elderly here, not badly on the English vaccine roll out.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:

    That's going to be a big big problem for him.
    I don't think so. The key thing is he says "used to" - he just needs to say clearly how much respect he has for Her Maj and that it serves the country well etc. etc.
    Of course it's going to be a fucking problem. This is the new patriotism. If you don't gush about how the Queen has served the nation for 60 years by being driven to the races in a Bentley and selflessly accepting 40,000 bunches of flowers you are fucked.

    He will just have to hope the Queen rolls a two before the next GE as republicanism will be very much in vogue once we have King Gobshite and his nervous wreck heir.
    Perhaps it can be fought off with more flags. Which is another reason not to go ape on flags now. You have to leave yourself somewhere to go. Some gears unused.
    Thankfully SKS seems to have only a single flag habit at the moment. Keep a beady eye open for any increase, and casually placed models of aircraft carriers.
    The model was only yesterday, Keir hasn't had a chance to retaliate yet. It' s coming.

    My bet is a miner's helmet in the corner, next to a model of a WW2 tank.
    A Churchill or a T34 ?

    Then agains, given todays revelation - The Black Prince - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Prince_(tank)

    - A super Churchill (tick)
    - A shout out to ethnic minorities (tick)
    - A shout out to Royalty (tick)
    - A finger flick at the French (tick)
    Great knowledge, love it!
    The history of British tank design in WWII is a wonderful opportunity to study dysfunctional organisations, the lunatics that reform them and the bizarre engineering attracts that get produced.
    Britain must have been the only country producing tank designs with non sloping armour in the latter half of the war.
    Ironically, the success of our fighter building programme came at the expense of tanks because Lord Beaverbrook as Minister of Aircraft Production (familiar to older PBers as the model for our calls for vaccine and PPE tsars) had grabbed all the material and factories.
    Some say that - but we succeeded in making tons of crapulent tanks. We built 1700 Covenanters. A tank that had one small defect. Actually driving it caused massive overheating in the engine.
    I am permanently bemused by the "Soviet tractor stats" smear, because the same production technique produced Soviet T34s. They were not false positive T34s, and they were a lot of the reason why we are not having this conversation in german.
    It's also a good side note to the patriotism and the left discussion; WWII Soviet factory workers pulled of some stupendous feats of production involving unpaid overtime, 14 hour shifts, contributing their wages towards the cost of an eg T34. Most industrialised countries had some version of this of course and there may have been a certain element of it being done at the end of a PPSh, but there was also a huge amount of genuine patriotism involved.
    Hence the "Great Patriotic War"
  • AlistairM said:

    England only vaccine data

    Region of Residence 1st dose 2nd dose Cumulative Total Doses to Date
    Total 300,173 1,386 301,559
    East Of England 33,762 261 34,023
    London 36,363 280 36,643
    Midlands 66,204 165 66,369
    North East And Yorkshire 35,538 226 35,764
    North West 39,636 131 39,767
    South East 53,690 187 53,877
    South West 33,396 130 33,526

    ~40K up on last week. There is a very clear pattern though so far of numbers struggling Sunday to Tuesday (possibly, Wednesday too) and then ramping up. Are deliveries received every Wednesday?! If that's the case then they need to try and get some Sunday deliveries made.

    Ancedotally my 72yo mother with clinically vulnerabilities who has been shielding for a year is still waiting. Her surgery told her when she phoned to ask on status that she needed to be patient as they only received 400 vaccines rather than the 2K they had expected. Yet at the same time we see in the news that 60+ are being vaccinated!
    Having already booked myself in for a jab next week I have just been phoned by someone from my GP offering me one the day before: I said I'd stick with what I already had.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    AlistairM said:

    England only vaccine data

    Region of Residence 1st dose 2nd dose Cumulative Total Doses to Date
    Total 300,173 1,386 301,559
    East Of England 33,762 261 34,023
    London 36,363 280 36,643
    Midlands 66,204 165 66,369
    North East And Yorkshire 35,538 226 35,764
    North West 39,636 131 39,767
    South East 53,690 187 53,877
    South West 33,396 130 33,526

    ~40K up on last week. There is a very clear pattern though so far of numbers struggling Sunday to Tuesday (possibly, Wednesday too) and then ramping up. Are deliveries received every Wednesday?! If that's the case then they need to try and get some Sunday deliveries made.

    The delivery point is interesting, especially given the dats is dayvof reporting. How are they distributed? In bulk to gov, who takes a few days to then spread around all the sites?
    I wonder how much of it is a reporting effect? Some sites maybe report once every few days, or maybe even once per week?
    I would be surprised by once a week - but it might be that we are seeing individual campaigns.

    My GP, for example, did a long weekend shutdown last weekend and turned the surgery into a 100% COVID vaccination setup, for 4 days. Did she report the numbers during, or just at the end?
    TBH in her place I might not bother doing an accurate count daily. I'd have a review the first three evenings to see which of my invitees hadn't turned up and do a recall.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,086
    edited February 2021
    Nigelb said:
    Not to defend Harding, but the government certainly did that...just wait til we get the antibody tests, wait until we get the app etc, akways promising these things would allow us to return to near normal.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    JonathanD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    And yet AZ showed 83% efficacy and it was up against the Brazilian and SA variants. They'd be completely stupid to not use it now out of spite, the only people who lose from this are the citizens of EU nations being let down by politicians game playing with vaccines.
    With the remaining 17% also, there's Covid and there's COVID. I'd be willing to bet your symptons are milder 'but for' the Astra Vaccine if you're unlucky to catch it after vaccination. A trillion? antibody headstart is useful for dealing with the virus...
    It's got 100% efficacy against death, hospitalisation and severe symptoms. It turns COVID of every variant into mild flu or heavy cold and two thirds of people don't get it at all. It's an extremely impressive result, more fool on them to ignore it because of some kind of political spite. The only losers will be the people.
    Except the people won't be the losers because the EU will soon have enough Pfizer. Also, if I can get away without even having a heavy cold or mild flu then that's better.

    I'll quite happily have the AZ jab myself but I don't think we should delude ourselves.
    The clock is ticking and many European countries are enduring very heavy restrictions with cases and deaths rising. The EU timescale is significantly slower and will take some time to ramp up. You may be unintentionally trivialising a very big deal!
  • 'Quick, the Natz are coming up on the rail in the vaccine race!'
    And about time, but not by much.....meanwhile,

    The behaviour of the Government was, in my view, a disgrace. But actions have consequences. Accountability is at the heart of the Scottish Parliament. The rule of law requires that those who have acted illegally are held to account. It is now the job of this Committee to resolve how that is best done.

    Alex Salmond
    27th January 2021
    Have you got your Justice for Salmond tee printed up?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Floater said:
    In extremely confused MSM news, it now transpires that our hero's demise may been caused by an infection he contracted whilst in the care of our wonderful NHS.

    Which.....er.......he campaigned so heroically to fund.

    Oh......umm......
    Healthcare acquired or iatrogenic infections are so well recognised and understood there's even two separate words for them. They are a predictable consequence of putting all the sick people in the same big building instead of having lots of little monohospitals. Most people either knew this already or would instinctively grasp it when confronted with an example.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    'Quick, the Natz are coming up on the rail in the vaccine race!'
    And about time, but not by much.....meanwhile,

    The behaviour of the Government was, in my view, a disgrace. But actions have consequences. Accountability is at the heart of the Scottish Parliament. The rule of law requires that those who have acted illegally are held to account. It is now the job of this Committee to resolve how that is best done.

    Alex Salmond
    27th January 2021
    I get confused - does he count as a real Scot any more?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    Dura_Ace said:

    I reckon I should be Labour leader.

    I love this country, what it stands for, what it's achieved in its past, and am a big believer in its mission for its future - I'm also an enthusiastic monarchist and I have no problem with flags coming out of my ears.

    What's not to like?

    The periodic meltdowns where you tell everyone to "Fuck Off" might be an issue when you're doing Marr on a Sunday.
    Didn't hurt John Prescott.
  • Agreed- but also shows how moribund french democracy is .
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    JonathanD said:

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    Have you seen the latest results from the AZ trials?
    Yes, 82.4% for AZ versus 95% for Pfizer.
    Wont matter when we're cruising to the pub in our Skodas whilst they are still waiting in their homes.
    Nothing wrong with a Skoda.

    My Skoda was about 10k less than the very similar but smaller VW, and 20k less for the similar Audi, which is so small I can't even get 10 house doors in it, flat.
    You car 10 house doors on a regular basis
    Just keep an open mind on the subject.
    How does the vehicle handle?
  • kle4 said:
    He will, but reminder despite some of the glowing coverage he gets here, mini-Trump isn't exactly very popular in France.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    Andy_JS said:
    That is bonkers, as over 50 is the age for something like 98-99% of the deaths in the UK from COVID-19. In effect by only using the vaccine on under 55s they will save hardly any lives, and sacrifice thousands of older lives in the process. They would do more good giving the vaccine away to other countries who will make better use of it.
  • IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:

    That's going to be a big big problem for him.
    I don't think so. The key thing is he says "used to" - he just needs to say clearly how much respect he has for Her Maj and that it serves the country well etc. etc.
    Of course it's going to be a fucking problem. This is the new patriotism. If you don't gush about how the Queen has served the nation for 60 years by being driven to the races in a Bentley and selflessly accepting 40,000 bunches of flowers you are fucked.

    He will just have to hope the Queen rolls a two before the next GE as republicanism will be very much in vogue once we have King Gobshite and his nervous wreck heir.
    Perhaps it can be fought off with more flags. Which is another reason not to go ape on flags now. You have to leave yourself somewhere to go. Some gears unused.
    Thankfully SKS seems to have only a single flag habit at the moment. Keep a beady eye open for any increase, and casually placed models of aircraft carriers.
    The model was only yesterday, Keir hasn't had a chance to retaliate yet. It' s coming.

    My bet is a miner's helmet in the corner, next to a model of a WW2 tank.
    A Churchill or a T34 ?

    Then agains, given todays revelation - The Black Prince - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Prince_(tank)

    - A super Churchill (tick)
    - A shout out to ethnic minorities (tick)
    - A shout out to Royalty (tick)
    - A finger flick at the French (tick)
    Great knowledge, love it!
    The history of British tank design in WWII is a wonderful opportunity to study dysfunctional organisations, the lunatics that reform them and the bizarre engineering attracts that get produced.
    Britain must have been the only country producing tank designs with non sloping armour in the latter half of the war.
    Ironically, the success of our fighter building programme came at the expense of tanks because Lord Beaverbrook as Minister of Aircraft Production (familiar to older PBers as the model for our calls for vaccine and PPE tsars) had grabbed all the material and factories.
    Some say that - but we succeeded in making tons of crapulent tanks. We built 1700 Covenanters. A tank that had one small defect. Actually driving it caused massive overheating in the engine.
    I am permanently bemused by the "Soviet tractor stats" smear, because the same production technique produced Soviet T34s. They were not false positive T34s, and they were a lot of the reason why we are not having this conversation in german.
    It's also a good side note to the patriotism and the left discussion; WWII Soviet factory workers pulled of some stupendous feats of production involving unpaid overtime, 14 hour shifts, contributing their wages towards the cost of an eg T34. Most industrialised countries had some version of this of course and there may have been a certain element of it being done at the end of a PPSh, but there was also a huge amount of genuine patriotism involved.
    Hence the "Great Patriotic War"
    Casts a long shadow. There was some functionary of the current Russian regime being interviewed the other day on the Navalny case and he stated that one of his crimes/failings was not being sufficiently respectful of the sacrifice of the Great Patriotic War.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Truth hurts - he should have got his flag out!
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    Floater said:

    Floater said:
    In extremely confused MSM news, it now transpires that our hero's demise may been caused by an infection he contracted whilst in the care of our wonderful NHS.

    Which.....er.......he campaigned so heroically to fund.

    Oh......umm......
    My dad died from covid he caught in hospital

    I can't blame them for that - are you saying I should?
    Sorry to hear of your loss.

    My sister's partner also died of Covid, not caught in hospital.

    And the blame lies with the Prime Minister.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    Maybe this is Starmer's quattro moment ? :D
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Floater said:

    Floater said:
    In extremely confused MSM news, it now transpires that our hero's demise may been caused by an infection he contracted whilst in the care of our wonderful NHS.

    Which.....er.......he campaigned so heroically to fund.

    Oh......umm......
    My dad died from covid he caught in hospital

    I can't blame them for that - are you saying I should?
    My father also passed away of covid that he caught in hospital. On Boxing Day. Since you mention it.

    I am not blaming anybody for anything. All I am doing is asking for honesty, and satirising the MSM's narrative for the lack it.

    How is hospital contracted covid affecting the numbers we see day in day out? I wish I knew. Perhaps someone could tell us both.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Floater said:
    I absolutely hate the now-common practice of tarring all members of a group with the brush of the most abhorrent. It's always possible, does no-one any good, and just results in more and more division. One of the worst examples of bubbles talking to themselves and failing to engage with what the mainstream voices amongst their opponents are actually saying.

    Although I'm really tempted to disregard that principle here. But I will resist.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,086
    edited February 2021
    Is Boris getting in the EMA stuff more evidence.of #10 team stepping up their game? Finding a load of old quotes that drop Starner in it.

    Normally Boris seems totally unprepared with any ammo to fire back with.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    glw said:

    Andy_JS said:
    That is bonkers, as over 50 is the age for something like 98-99% of the deaths in the UK from COVID-19. In effect by only using the vaccine on under 55s they will save hardly any lives, and sacrifice thousands of older lives in the process. They would do more good giving the vaccine away to other countries who will make better use of it.
    Belgium has had an even worse pandemic than us in terms of impact, which is saying something.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    malcolmg said:

    Gove was floundering on GMS this morning , could not answer the question re vaccines , usual Tory lies where they count the fact that they have it on a spreadsheet as it has been done. They don't have the bollox to admit they just wanted to get all the low hanging fruit vaccinated to divert from their appalling record and the massive daily death rate. Union Jack had same issue on Sunday re availability of vaccine.

    NS: "That's a deliberate choice the Government has made. It is a legitimate choice to have first of all focused on overall numbers, but if that is at the expense of the uptake in the groups most clinically vulnerable, it's not a choice I would've wanted to make."
    NS: "I heard Michael Gove on the radio this morning not able or willing to give a figure for how many residents in care homes in England have actually been vaccinated as opposed to being offered the vaccine."
    NS: "Scotgov has followed an approach that very deliberately concentrated on getting the most clinically vulnerable groups vaccinated first, and achieving as high an uptake in these groups as possible."

    It has been confirmed that 'offered' means a GP going in to the actual home with actual vaccines and offering. One assumes that the situation in Scotland was the same - unless the jabbers in Scotland were under order to forcibly vaccinate the biddies whether they wanted it or not.

    If Care home uptake has been higher in Scotland, that reflects well on the good sense of the elderly here, not badly on the English vaccine roll out.
    The elderly in Scotland being more likely to vote against separatism, so their good sense already demonstrated.

    The rest of the UK appear to have vaccinated both deep and wide whereas the SNP have messed around and then reached for the first excuse they could.

    Has anyone asked Sturgeon to compare her vaccination rollout with NI or Wales who both have been faster than hers?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    Scott_xP said:
    Starmer won't be clapping for Boris tomorrow then. Traitor!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204

    AlistairM said:

    England only vaccine data

    Region of Residence 1st dose 2nd dose Cumulative Total Doses to Date
    Total 300,173 1,386 301,559
    East Of England 33,762 261 34,023
    London 36,363 280 36,643
    Midlands 66,204 165 66,369
    North East And Yorkshire 35,538 226 35,764
    North West 39,636 131 39,767
    South East 53,690 187 53,877
    South West 33,396 130 33,526

    ~40K up on last week. There is a very clear pattern though so far of numbers struggling Sunday to Tuesday (possibly, Wednesday too) and then ramping up. Are deliveries received every Wednesday?! If that's the case then they need to try and get some Sunday deliveries made.

    Ancedotally my 72yo mother with clinically vulnerabilities who has been shielding for a year is still waiting. Her surgery told her when she phoned to ask on status that she needed to be patient as they only received 400 vaccines rather than the 2K they had expected. Yet at the same time we see in the news that 60+ are being vaccinated!
    Having already booked myself in for a jab next week I have just been phoned by someone from my GP offering me one the day before: I said I'd stick with what I already had.
    A touch of redundancy & overlap doesn't hurt in these situations, everyone is working to the same end.
  • Because they're not in the middle of widespread outbreaks and lockdowns?

    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1356966262820192256?s=20
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    IshmaelZ said:

    Floater said:
    In extremely confused MSM news, it now transpires that our hero's demise may been caused by an infection he contracted whilst in the care of our wonderful NHS.

    Which.....er.......he campaigned so heroically to fund.

    Oh......umm......
    Healthcare acquired or iatrogenic infections are so well recognised and understood there's even two separate words for them. They are a predictable consequence of putting all the sick people in the same big building instead of having lots of little monohospitals. Most people either knew this already or would instinctively grasp it when confronted with an example.
    Nosocomial (hospital-acquired) infections are estimated to account for about 100,000 deaths a year in the US. I presume the iatrogenic number is even higher.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    JonathanD said:

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    Have you seen the latest results from the AZ trials?
    Yes, 82.4% for AZ versus 95% for Pfizer.
    Wont matter when we're cruising to the pub in our Skodas whilst they are still waiting in their homes.
    Nothing wrong with a Skoda.

    My Skoda was about 10k less than the very similar but smaller VW, and 20k less for the similar Audi, which is so small I can't even get 10 house doors in it, flat.
    You car 10 house doors on a regular basis
    Just keep an open mind on the subject.
    How does the vehicle handle?
    It all hinges on how you load it.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Floater said:
    In extremely confused MSM news, it now transpires that our hero's demise may been caused by an infection he contracted whilst in the care of our wonderful NHS.

    Which.....er.......he campaigned so heroically to fund.

    Oh......umm......
    Healthcare acquired or iatrogenic infections are so well recognised and understood there's even two separate words for them. They are a predictable consequence of putting all the sick people in the same big building instead of having lots of little monohospitals. Most people either knew this already or would instinctively grasp it when confronted with an example.
    I've had a few in my time. In fact I think I may have picked up something on Monday when I had a fairly invasive test which the consultant assured me had a "one in fifty" chance of happening. My personal experience is that it is closer to a 50% chance.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    edited February 2021

    Andy_JS said:
    At this rate, some EU country is going to say only 18-21 year olds can have it.
    Maybe the next one will be Luxembourg 50+.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    glw said:

    Andy_JS said:
    That is bonkers, as over 50 is the age for something like 98-99% of the deaths in the UK from COVID-19. In effect by only using the vaccine on under 55s they will save hardly any lives, and sacrifice thousands of older lives in the process. They would do more good giving the vaccine away to other countries who will make better use of it.
    I commented down thread on Polish and German friends being told by their doctors to wait for Pfizer - doing this means that there is a systemic excuse for low/slow vaccination. Especially since, as you say, the priority is supposed to be the elderly. "We are waiting for deliveries of the proper stuff"
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Because they're not in the middle of widespread outbreaks and lockdowns?

    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1356966262820192256?s=20

    And they are in the middle of summer.....
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited February 2021
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    JonathanD said:

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    Have you seen the latest results from the AZ trials?
    Yes, 82.4% for AZ versus 95% for Pfizer.
    Wont matter when we're cruising to the pub in our Skodas whilst they are still waiting in their homes.
    Nothing wrong with a Skoda.

    My Skoda was about 10k less than the very similar but smaller VW, and 20k less for the similar Audi, which is so small I can't even get 10 house doors in it, flat.
    You car 10 house doors on a regular basis
    Just keep an open mind on the subject.

    A lot hinges on this. No matter what the knockers say.
  • Andy_JS said:
    Is this a bizarre reverse auction?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    tlg86 said:
    Yay - Freddy's back in the team - and it's not a nightmare :smiley:
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Didn't have today down for a spat between Indian government and Rihanna.
    At least not about agrarian reforms.
  • IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:

    That's going to be a big big problem for him.
    I don't think so. The key thing is he says "used to" - he just needs to say clearly how much respect he has for Her Maj and that it serves the country well etc. etc.
    Of course it's going to be a fucking problem. This is the new patriotism. If you don't gush about how the Queen has served the nation for 60 years by being driven to the races in a Bentley and selflessly accepting 40,000 bunches of flowers you are fucked.

    He will just have to hope the Queen rolls a two before the next GE as republicanism will be very much in vogue once we have King Gobshite and his nervous wreck heir.
    Perhaps it can be fought off with more flags. Which is another reason not to go ape on flags now. You have to leave yourself somewhere to go. Some gears unused.
    Thankfully SKS seems to have only a single flag habit at the moment. Keep a beady eye open for any increase, and casually placed models of aircraft carriers.
    The model was only yesterday, Keir hasn't had a chance to retaliate yet. It' s coming.

    My bet is a miner's helmet in the corner, next to a model of a WW2 tank.
    A Churchill or a T34 ?

    Then agains, given todays revelation - The Black Prince - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Prince_(tank)

    - A super Churchill (tick)
    - A shout out to ethnic minorities (tick)
    - A shout out to Royalty (tick)
    - A finger flick at the French (tick)
    Great knowledge, love it!
    The history of British tank design in WWII is a wonderful opportunity to study dysfunctional organisations, the lunatics that reform them and the bizarre engineering attracts that get produced.
    Britain must have been the only country producing tank designs with non sloping armour in the latter half of the war.
    Ironically, the success of our fighter building programme came at the expense of tanks because Lord Beaverbrook as Minister of Aircraft Production (familiar to older PBers as the model for our calls for vaccine and PPE tsars) had grabbed all the material and factories.
    Some say that - but we succeeded in making tons of crapulent tanks. We built 1700 Covenanters. A tank that had one small defect. Actually driving it caused massive overheating in the engine.
    I am permanently bemused by the "Soviet tractor stats" smear, because the same production technique produced Soviet T34s. They were not false positive T34s, and they were a lot of the reason why we are not having this conversation in german.
    It's also a good side note to the patriotism and the left discussion; WWII Soviet factory workers pulled of some stupendous feats of production involving unpaid overtime, 14 hour shifts, contributing their wages towards the cost of an eg T34. Most industrialised countries had some version of this of course and there may have been a certain element of it being done at the end of a PPSh, but there was also a huge amount of genuine patriotism involved.
    Hence the "Great Patriotic War"
    Casts a long shadow. There was some functionary of the current Russian regime being interviewed the other day on the Navalny case and he stated that one of his crimes/failings was not being sufficiently respectful of the sacrifice of the Great Patriotic War.
    Fairly easy trivia question: if WWII was the "Second Great Patriotic War", what was the First Great Patriotic War?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    JonathanD said:

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    Have you seen the latest results from the AZ trials?
    Yes, 82.4% for AZ versus 95% for Pfizer.
    Wont matter when we're cruising to the pub in our Skodas whilst they are still waiting in their homes.
    Nothing wrong with a Skoda.

    My Skoda was about 10k less than the very similar but smaller VW, and 20k less for the similar Audi, which is so small I can't even get 10 house doors in it, flat.
    You car 10 house doors on a regular basis
    Just keep an open mind on the subject.
    How does the vehicle handle?
    Very nice drive, my Skoda. Second one I've had. Had the Pfizer vaccine, too! 2½ weeks ago.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,220
    felix said:

    Truth hurts - he should have got his flag out!
    Not sure that Harry Cole is quite the fearless quester for truth that you seem to take him for.
  • Floater said:

    'Quick, the Natz are coming up on the rail in the vaccine race!'
    And about time, but not by much.....meanwhile,

    The behaviour of the Government was, in my view, a disgrace. But actions have consequences. Accountability is at the heart of the Scottish Parliament. The rule of law requires that those who have acted illegally are held to account. It is now the job of this Committee to resolve how that is best done.

    Alex Salmond
    27th January 2021
    I get confused - does he count as a real Scot any more?
    It's not clear Joanna Cherry MP is a real woman (or is that "female" - ed.)

    https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1356958116479332352?s=20
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Nigelb said:

    I do not agree with Angela on everything, but here she is spot on.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    dixiedean said:

    Didn't have today down for a spat between Indian government and Rihanna.
    At least not about agrarian reforms.

    Indeed, I assumed it would be over monetary policy or ethnic tensions.
  • Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    England only vaccine data

    Region of Residence 1st dose 2nd dose Cumulative Total Doses to Date
    Total 300,173 1,386 301,559
    East Of England 33,762 261 34,023
    London 36,363 280 36,643
    Midlands 66,204 165 66,369
    North East And Yorkshire 35,538 226 35,764
    North West 39,636 131 39,767
    South East 53,690 187 53,877
    South West 33,396 130 33,526

    ~40K up on last week. There is a very clear pattern though so far of numbers struggling Sunday to Tuesday (possibly, Wednesday too) and then ramping up. Are deliveries received every Wednesday?! If that's the case then they need to try and get some Sunday deliveries made.

    Ancedotally my 72yo mother with clinically vulnerabilities who has been shielding for a year is still waiting. Her surgery told her when she phoned to ask on status that she needed to be patient as they only received 400 vaccines rather than the 2K they had expected. Yet at the same time we see in the news that 60+ are being vaccinated!
    Having already booked myself in for a jab next week I have just been phoned by someone from my GP offering me one the day before: I said I'd stick with what I already had.
    A touch of redundancy & overlap doesn't hurt in these situations, everyone is working to the same end.
    Oh, I wasn't complaining!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    JonathanD said:

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    Have you seen the latest results from the AZ trials?
    Yes, 82.4% for AZ versus 95% for Pfizer.
    Wont matter when we're cruising to the pub in our Skodas whilst they are still waiting in their homes.
    Nothing wrong with a Skoda.

    My Skoda was about 10k less than the very similar but smaller VW, and 20k less for the similar Audi, which is so small I can't even get 10 house doors in it, flat.
    You car 10 house doors on a regular basis
    Just keep an open mind on the subject.
    How does the vehicle handle?
    Very nice drive, my Skoda. Second one I've had. Had the Pfizer vaccine, too! 2½ weeks ago.
    Why? Cars don't need vaccines, they're immune.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209

    You have to say that Boris and his admirers in the media are shrewd and ruthless operators. Being a safe pair or hands and cool under pressure was one of Sir Keir's great selling points. Get it circulating that he's cracked up and you seriously damage the brand - straight out of the New Labour handbook.
    Dunno, wanting to boot BJ in the baws shows as a positive for SKS imo.
    There's much scope for going personal on Johnson and in any case I like to see some fury from Starmer. It works brilliantly for him because his face is red to start with - hence doesn't change - and he's able to control his voice very well. His best ever TV performance imo was when he lambasted Johnson over the Christmas shambles and his tacky PMQ jibes. That was a masterclass of how to convey irritation and contempt for something irritating and contemptuous. If we're going to get more of this - a raging bull against the bullshit - great.
  • IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:

    That's going to be a big big problem for him.
    I don't think so. The key thing is he says "used to" - he just needs to say clearly how much respect he has for Her Maj and that it serves the country well etc. etc.
    Of course it's going to be a fucking problem. This is the new patriotism. If you don't gush about how the Queen has served the nation for 60 years by being driven to the races in a Bentley and selflessly accepting 40,000 bunches of flowers you are fucked.

    He will just have to hope the Queen rolls a two before the next GE as republicanism will be very much in vogue once we have King Gobshite and his nervous wreck heir.
    Perhaps it can be fought off with more flags. Which is another reason not to go ape on flags now. You have to leave yourself somewhere to go. Some gears unused.
    Thankfully SKS seems to have only a single flag habit at the moment. Keep a beady eye open for any increase, and casually placed models of aircraft carriers.
    The model was only yesterday, Keir hasn't had a chance to retaliate yet. It' s coming.

    My bet is a miner's helmet in the corner, next to a model of a WW2 tank.
    A Churchill or a T34 ?

    Then agains, given todays revelation - The Black Prince - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Prince_(tank)

    - A super Churchill (tick)
    - A shout out to ethnic minorities (tick)
    - A shout out to Royalty (tick)
    - A finger flick at the French (tick)
    Great knowledge, love it!
    The history of British tank design in WWII is a wonderful opportunity to study dysfunctional organisations, the lunatics that reform them and the bizarre engineering attracts that get produced.
    Britain must have been the only country producing tank designs with non sloping armour in the latter half of the war.
    Ironically, the success of our fighter building programme came at the expense of tanks because Lord Beaverbrook as Minister of Aircraft Production (familiar to older PBers as the model for our calls for vaccine and PPE tsars) had grabbed all the material and factories.
    Some say that - but we succeeded in making tons of crapulent tanks. We built 1700 Covenanters. A tank that had one small defect. Actually driving it caused massive overheating in the engine.
    I am permanently bemused by the "Soviet tractor stats" smear, because the same production technique produced Soviet T34s. They were not false positive T34s, and they were a lot of the reason why we are not having this conversation in german.
    It's also a good side note to the patriotism and the left discussion; WWII Soviet factory workers pulled of some stupendous feats of production involving unpaid overtime, 14 hour shifts, contributing their wages towards the cost of an eg T34. Most industrialised countries had some version of this of course and there may have been a certain element of it being done at the end of a PPSh, but there was also a huge amount of genuine patriotism involved.
    Hence the "Great Patriotic War"
    Casts a long shadow. There was some functionary of the current Russian regime being interviewed the other day on the Navalny case and he stated that one of his crimes/failings was not being sufficiently respectful of the sacrifice of the Great Patriotic War.
    Fairly easy trivia question: if WWII was the "Second Great Patriotic War", what was the First Great Patriotic War?
    Shit, I was reading something that mentioned this the other day but no fact anchored in my heid! Will have to resort to Google.
  • glw said:

    Andy_JS said:
    That is bonkers, as over 50 is the age for something like 98-99% of the deaths in the UK from COVID-19. In effect by only using the vaccine on under 55s they will save hardly any lives, and sacrifice thousands of older lives in the process. They would do more good giving the vaccine away to other countries who will make better use of it.
    I commented down thread on Polish and German friends being told by their doctors to wait for Pfizer - doing this means that there is a systemic excuse for low/slow vaccination. Especially since, as you say, the priority is supposed to be the elderly. "We are waiting for deliveries of the proper stuff"
    Completely irresponsible if true.

    Widespread strict lockdowns, rampant case numbers, thousands of deaths - look at what is happening in Portugal - and no end in sight except for the vaccine.

    The proper stuff is here. Take it, use it, end this nightmare. Don't be a dingbat.
  • Andy_JS said:
    Is this a bizarre reverse auction?
    Trying to re-write facts to cover policy. IE We haven't got anyway, so it can't be good anyway.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TimT said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Floater said:
    In extremely confused MSM news, it now transpires that our hero's demise may been caused by an infection he contracted whilst in the care of our wonderful NHS.

    Which.....er.......he campaigned so heroically to fund.

    Oh......umm......
    Healthcare acquired or iatrogenic infections are so well recognised and understood there's even two separate words for them. They are a predictable consequence of putting all the sick people in the same big building instead of having lots of little monohospitals. Most people either knew this already or would instinctively grasp it when confronted with an example.
    Nosocomial (hospital-acquired) infections are estimated to account for about 100,000 deaths a year in the US. I presume the iatrogenic number is even higher.
    There's a debate to be had as to when medicine as a whole became a net lifesaver

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-Medicine-Doctors-Doing-Hippocrates/dp/0199212791
  • kinabalu said:

    Mango said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Of course you can be left-wing and patriotic. Jim Callaghan, Harold Wilson, Clement Atlee, George Orwell, etc.

    Telling that one has to reach for figures from 40, 50, and 80 years ago...
    Yep. Before we became an oligarchy.

    Now anybody who threatens the ruling class's grip on assets is attacked on "patriotic" grounds (I suppose they always were, but now there's really no right or power of reply).

    It works, of course. Look at the dumbass flag-waving even on here, among people who are quite erudite and measured on many matters.
    Unfortunately for your thesis, the Corbyn period demonstrated quite clearly that the types who want to steal our assets are very often also anti-patriots. Tell the British that you want to take their cash and their country, and those supposed 'few' will crush you at the ballot box in their millions.
    Well that's a bit of revolving bow-tie nonsense. In 17 it was close and 19 was a quasi rerun of the Brexit referendum in a climate where the only question was how big the Con majority would be.
    Except for the fact that Corbyn's best seat total barely beat New Labour's worst, and the Tory result in that election was better than what Cameron achieved against Brown.

    And the main thing that cost May her majority and made it close at all? Promising to steal people's assets. We just don't like it.
    The care home policy is overstated imo, mainly to excuse Lynton Crosby's presidential campaign.

    But what people forget about is the two major terrorist incidents during the 2017 campaign that allowed Jeremy Corbyn to highlight Theresa May's police cuts.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Andy_JS said:
    Is this a bizarre reverse auction?
    Trying to re-write facts to cover policy. IE We haven't got anyway, so it can't be good anyway.
    Is there scope for a conspiracy theory that AZ deliberately screwed up presentation of the results so that we privately knew the product was fine, and could keep our hands on the lot cos nobody else wanted it?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    JonathanD said:

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    Have you seen the latest results from the AZ trials?
    Yes, 82.4% for AZ versus 95% for Pfizer.
    Wont matter when we're cruising to the pub in our Skodas whilst they are still waiting in their homes.
    Nothing wrong with a Skoda.

    My Skoda was about 10k less than the very similar but smaller VW, and 20k less for the similar Audi, which is so small I can't even get 10 house doors in it, flat.
    You car 10 house doors on a regular basis
    Just keep an open mind on the subject.
    How does the vehicle handle?
    Very nice drive, my Skoda. Second one I've had. Had the Pfizer vaccine, too! 2½ weeks ago.
    Why? Cars don't need vaccines, they're immune.
    I thought you taught History, not English!
  • IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:

    That's going to be a big big problem for him.
    I don't think so. The key thing is he says "used to" - he just needs to say clearly how much respect he has for Her Maj and that it serves the country well etc. etc.
    Of course it's going to be a fucking problem. This is the new patriotism. If you don't gush about how the Queen has served the nation for 60 years by being driven to the races in a Bentley and selflessly accepting 40,000 bunches of flowers you are fucked.

    He will just have to hope the Queen rolls a two before the next GE as republicanism will be very much in vogue once we have King Gobshite and his nervous wreck heir.
    Perhaps it can be fought off with more flags. Which is another reason not to go ape on flags now. You have to leave yourself somewhere to go. Some gears unused.
    Thankfully SKS seems to have only a single flag habit at the moment. Keep a beady eye open for any increase, and casually placed models of aircraft carriers.
    The model was only yesterday, Keir hasn't had a chance to retaliate yet. It' s coming.

    My bet is a miner's helmet in the corner, next to a model of a WW2 tank.
    A Churchill or a T34 ?

    Then agains, given todays revelation - The Black Prince - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Prince_(tank)

    - A super Churchill (tick)
    - A shout out to ethnic minorities (tick)
    - A shout out to Royalty (tick)
    - A finger flick at the French (tick)
    Great knowledge, love it!
    The history of British tank design in WWII is a wonderful opportunity to study dysfunctional organisations, the lunatics that reform them and the bizarre engineering attracts that get produced.
    Britain must have been the only country producing tank designs with non sloping armour in the latter half of the war.
    Ironically, the success of our fighter building programme came at the expense of tanks because Lord Beaverbrook as Minister of Aircraft Production (familiar to older PBers as the model for our calls for vaccine and PPE tsars) had grabbed all the material and factories.
    Some say that - but we succeeded in making tons of crapulent tanks. We built 1700 Covenanters. A tank that had one small defect. Actually driving it caused massive overheating in the engine.
    I am permanently bemused by the "Soviet tractor stats" smear, because the same production technique produced Soviet T34s. They were not false positive T34s, and they were a lot of the reason why we are not having this conversation in german.
    It's also a good side note to the patriotism and the left discussion; WWII Soviet factory workers pulled of some stupendous feats of production involving unpaid overtime, 14 hour shifts, contributing their wages towards the cost of an eg T34. Most industrialised countries had some version of this of course and there may have been a certain element of it being done at the end of a PPSh, but there was also a huge amount of genuine patriotism involved.
    Hence the "Great Patriotic War"
    Casts a long shadow. There was some functionary of the current Russian regime being interviewed the other day on the Navalny case and he stated that one of his crimes/failings was not being sufficiently respectful of the sacrifice of the Great Patriotic War.
    Fairly easy trivia question: if WWII was the "Second Great Patriotic War", what was the First Great Patriotic War?
    Shit, I was reading something that mentioned this the other day but no fact anchored in my heid! Will have to resort to Google.
    As a hint, this is one of the things that helped end it:
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    JonathanD said:

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    Have you seen the latest results from the AZ trials?
    Yes, 82.4% for AZ versus 95% for Pfizer.
    Wont matter when we're cruising to the pub in our Skodas whilst they are still waiting in their homes.
    Nothing wrong with a Skoda.

    My Skoda was about 10k less than the very similar but smaller VW, and 20k less for the similar Audi, which is so small I can't even get 10 house doors in it, flat.
    You car 10 house doors on a regular basis
    Just keep an open mind on the subject.
    How does the vehicle handle?
    Very nice drive, my Skoda. Second one I've had. Had the Pfizer vaccine, too! 2½ weeks ago.
    Why? Cars don't need vaccines, they're immune.
    But some of them are carriers.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    On Topic AZN still is inferior to Pfizer. The latter 95% efficacy the former pick a number any number
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    JonathanD said:

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    Have you seen the latest results from the AZ trials?
    Yes, 82.4% for AZ versus 95% for Pfizer.
    Wont matter when we're cruising to the pub in our Skodas whilst they are still waiting in their homes.
    Nothing wrong with a Skoda.

    My Skoda was about 10k less than the very similar but smaller VW, and 20k less for the similar Audi, which is so small I can't even get 10 house doors in it, flat.
    You car 10 house doors on a regular basis
    Just keep an open mind on the subject.
    How does the vehicle handle?
    Very nice drive, my Skoda. Second one I've had. Had the Pfizer vaccine, too! 2½ weeks ago.
    Why? Cars don't need vaccines, they're immune.
    I thought you taught History, not English!
    Actually, I teach both. I annoy most of my colleagues in the English department by saying English is history for thick people.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited February 2021

    Andy_JS said:
    Is this a bizarre reverse auction?
    Trying to re-write facts to cover policy. IE We haven't got anyway, so it can't be good anyway.
    It’s the hostage to fortune they create that confuses me though. Very shortly their citizens will be able to look at us, and the data emerging from us, and think “nah that was all bollocks from my Gvt wasn’t it”.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    JonathanD said:

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Oxford University and AstraZeneca plan to have a new Covid vaccine ready by the autumn to tackle new variants of the coronavirus, they confirmed today.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9218963/Coronavirus-UK-Oxford-AstraZeneca-make-new-Covid-vaccine-AUTUMN.html

    Has anyone told the EU procurement team?
    Given all the additional Pfizer manufacturing capacity being built in Europe, I suspect the EU won't be buying any more AZ after the initial order is complete. With Pfizer having much higher efficacy trial results than AZ, they'll probably view it as them buying the Rolls-Royce of vaccines while the UK makes do with a Skoda.
    Have you seen the latest results from the AZ trials?
    Yes, 82.4% for AZ versus 95% for Pfizer.
    Wont matter when we're cruising to the pub in our Skodas whilst they are still waiting in their homes.
    Nothing wrong with a Skoda.

    My Skoda was about 10k less than the very similar but smaller VW, and 20k less for the similar Audi, which is so small I can't even get 10 house doors in it, flat.
    You car 10 house doors on a regular basis
    Just keep an open mind on the subject.
    How does the vehicle handle?
    Very nice drive, my Skoda. Second one I've had. Had the Pfizer vaccine, too! 2½ weeks ago.
    Why? Cars don't need vaccines, they're immune.
    But some of them are carriers.
    Thanks!
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Because they're not in the middle of widespread outbreaks and lockdowns?

    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1356966262820192256?s=20

    He's forgotten that the whole car crash last week was started watched painfully on the news and finished with a humiliating climbdown in Brussels. It's pretty depressing when you have journalists with so much partiality they resemble something out of Fahrenheit 451!
This discussion has been closed.