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The longer the EU row goes on the better it is for Hancock and Johnson – politicalbetting.com

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  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770
    Evening all

    o/t - pondering the Trump legal team issues, I've stated to wonder whether he'll do a Jack Nicholson impression from the film A Few Good Men.

    Whilst on the subject of films I'm quite impressed that Hancock owned up to Contagion being an inspiration for his thinking. Takes a degree of courage.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Vaxometer

    (All doses, all nations)

    Target 15,000,000
    Thru 10,520,433
    Required 4,479,564
    Days to target 12

    Yesterday's rate 376,922
    Required rate 373,297



    Lovely, though maybe adjust the number to reflect first doses as the target is based on that.

    What is good news is that the weekend seems to be less of an issue than I first thought it would be, this weekend just gone had 320k and 350k first doses done which isn't too far off the current required rate and it does seem as though capacity is still ramping up in some parts of the country.
    How many priority categories does that 15m represent?
    I thought it was 1-4, but I could be mistaken.
    Checked the Government vaccine plan. Cohorts 1-4 are about 15m people. Cohorts 5-9 another 17m. Remainder of adult population is about 21m.
  • I see the rate of decrease of cases is slowing but we’re still dropping circa 25% a week.

    The percentage look of decrease looks like it's accelerating to me. The decrease is almost linear and it shouldn't be if it was a consistent rate of decrease.

    Been dropping around 10k daily cases per per week and if that continued for a fortnight then by halftime we could have a day without any cases.

    Won't happen but hope we get as close to that as possible.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    edited February 2021

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Vaxometer

    (All doses, all nations)

    Target 15,000,000
    Thru 10,520,433
    Required 4,479,564
    Days to target 12

    Yesterday's rate 376,922
    Required rate 373,297



    Lovely, though maybe adjust the number to reflect first doses as the target is based on that.

    What is good news is that the weekend seems to be less of an issue than I first thought it would be, this weekend just gone had 320k and 350k first doses done which isn't too far off the current required rate and it does seem as though capacity is still ramping up in some parts of the country.
    How many priority categories does that 15m represent?
    I thought it was 1-4, but I could be mistaken.
    Checked the Government vaccine plan. Cohorts 1-4 are about 15m people. Cohorts 5-9 another 17m. Remainder of adult population is about 21m.
    In England ?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Vaxometer

    (First doses only, all nations)

    Target 15,000,000
    Thru 10,021,471
    Required 4,978,529
    Days to target 12

    Yesterday's rate 374,756
    Required rate 414,877

    REVISED FOR FIRST DOSES ONLY

    Wouldn't there be 13 days to target? Due to the reporting lag?
    No, 12 (the target is 2359hrs on 14 Feb), so we count the last day on 15 Feb.

    Days still to count 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14 Feb.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Johnson says infections are still 'alarmingly high'

    really?

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,215
    edited February 2021

    Charles said:


    It's the EU's insistence that the border must be enforced which is the issue.

    NI is part of the UK customs zone. Have a "trusted trader" process that allows shipping from NI to RoI.

    The amount of "non-compliant" product that will be smuggled from the UK to the EU via NI and RoI will be minimal. But if volumes start going up suspiciously in Belfast then you take action at that point.

    Just turn a blind eye to the small abuses.

    Which provisions of the EU Treaties would give the Commission or the Republic the power to do that?
    Their ability to negotiate agreements.

    Negotiate a trusted trader scheme and self declaration. Negotiate mutual recognition of SPS.

    To do otherwise was a choice.
    The UK refused to negotiate mutual recognition of SPS, and was in far too much of a completely unnecessary hurry to agree anything else. The choice was the UK's. Everyone said it was barmy, the EU made it clear that more time was required, but, no, Boris blundered into an agreement cobbled together without thought and which he doesn't seem to have read or understood, with just a couple of days for parliament to 'scrutinise' and for business to make preparations, without the administrative systems being ready.

    There ain't no getting away from where the blame lies: Boris.
    What people must guard against is the temptation to think that because his approach to Covid vaccines appears to have been driven by the national interest it means that anything else he's done in his political career has been. For that would be wildly incorrect.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Johnson says infections are still 'alarmingly high'

    really?

    They are.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    I see the rate of decrease of cases is slowing but we’re still dropping circa 25% a week.

    The percentage look of decrease looks like it's accelerating to me. The decrease is almost linear and it shouldn't be if it was a consistent rate of decrease.

    Been dropping around 10k daily cases per per week and if that continued for a fortnight then by halftime we could have a day without any cases.

    Won't happen but hope we get as close to that as possible.
    We were experiencing cases decreasing at a rate of around 30% per week but now it’s more like 25% per week.

    You can see the small decrease in gradient here:



    I don’t think it’s a problem.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Johnson says infections are still 'alarmingly high'

    really?

    The 7 day average is about where we were before the November lockdown.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Vaxometer

    (All doses, all nations)

    Target 15,000,000
    Thru 10,520,433
    Required 4,479,564
    Days to target 12

    Yesterday's rate 376,922
    Required rate 373,297



    Lovely, though maybe adjust the number to reflect first doses as the target is based on that.

    What is good news is that the weekend seems to be less of an issue than I first thought it would be, this weekend just gone had 320k and 350k first doses done which isn't too far off the current required rate and it does seem as though capacity is still ramping up in some parts of the country.
    How many priority categories does that 15m represent?
    I thought it was 1-4, but I could be mistaken.
    Checked the Government vaccine plan. Cohorts 1-4 are about 15m people. Cohorts 5-9 another 17m. Remainder of adult population is about 21m.
    In England ?
    I don't think we've started here in Wales yet.

    The Pfizer vaccines are still in Drakeford's freezer.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    Omnium said:

    Evening all

    o/t - pondering the Trump legal team issues, I've stated to wonder whether he'll do a Jack Nicholson impression from the film A Few Good Men.

    Whilst on the subject of films I'm quite impressed that Hancock owned up to Contagion being an inspiration for his thinking. Takes a degree of courage.

    You mean he will convict himself?

    Never could understand the people who though the Jack Nicholson character was a hero.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Vaxometer

    (All doses, all nations)

    Target 15,000,000
    Thru 10,520,433
    Required 4,479,564
    Days to target 12

    Yesterday's rate 376,922
    Required rate 373,297



    Lovely, though maybe adjust the number to reflect first doses as the target is based on that.

    What is good news is that the weekend seems to be less of an issue than I first thought it would be, this weekend just gone had 320k and 350k first doses done which isn't too far off the current required rate and it does seem as though capacity is still ramping up in some parts of the country.
    How many priority categories does that 15m represent?
    I thought it was 1-4, but I could be mistaken.
    Checked the Government vaccine plan. Cohorts 1-4 are about 15m people. Cohorts 5-9 another 17m. Remainder of adult population is about 21m.
    In England ?
    In the UK. Equivalent values for England are approximately 12m, 14m & 18m.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited February 2021
    Scott_xP said:
    That apology is undone by the first paragraph...the classic sorry but or the I am sorry that somebody was offended...just say i waz wrong, putting weasel words and yeah but Boris is a liar doesn't make you look good.
  • TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Vaxometer

    (All doses, all nations)

    Target 15,000,000
    Thru 10,520,433
    Required 4,479,564
    Days to target 12

    Yesterday's rate 376,922
    Required rate 373,297



    Lovely, though maybe adjust the number to reflect first doses as the target is based on that.

    What is good news is that the weekend seems to be less of an issue than I first thought it would be, this weekend just gone had 320k and 350k first doses done which isn't too far off the current required rate and it does seem as though capacity is still ramping up in some parts of the country.
    How many priority categories does that 15m represent?
    I thought it was 1-4, but I could be mistaken.
    Checked the Government vaccine plan. Cohorts 1-4 are about 15m people. Cohorts 5-9 another 17m. Remainder of adult population is about 21m.
    In England ?
    I don't think we've started here in Wales yet.

    The Pfizer vaccines are still in Drakeford's freezer.
    My wife and I had Pfizer
  • TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Vaxometer

    (All doses, all nations)

    Target 15,000,000
    Thru 10,520,433
    Required 4,479,564
    Days to target 12

    Yesterday's rate 376,922
    Required rate 373,297



    Lovely, though maybe adjust the number to reflect first doses as the target is based on that.

    What is good news is that the weekend seems to be less of an issue than I first thought it would be, this weekend just gone had 320k and 350k first doses done which isn't too far off the current required rate and it does seem as though capacity is still ramping up in some parts of the country.
    How many priority categories does that 15m represent?
    I thought it was 1-4, but I could be mistaken.
    Checked the Government vaccine plan. Cohorts 1-4 are about 15m people. Cohorts 5-9 another 17m. Remainder of adult population is about 21m.
    In England ?
    In the UK. Equivalent values for England are approximately 12m, 14m & 18m.
    Thank you
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770

    Omnium said:

    Evening all

    o/t - pondering the Trump legal team issues, I've stated to wonder whether he'll do a Jack Nicholson impression from the film A Few Good Men.

    Whilst on the subject of films I'm quite impressed that Hancock owned up to Contagion being an inspiration for his thinking. Takes a degree of courage.

    You mean he will convict himself?

    Never could understand the people who though the Jack Nicholson character was a hero.
    Well perhaps. I suspect his legal teams main concern is that he'll open his mouth.

    JN character was clearly a villain, but perhaps the system was a bigger villain. I liked that film.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    kle4 said:

    Johnson says infections are still 'alarmingly high'

    really?

    The 7 day average is about where we were before the November lockdown.
    Still way above 10K a day

    image
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Sky

    UK third in the world on vaccinations

    We'd be second if it wasn't for Drakeford holding us back!
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    It's complicated.

    Culturally, large parts of Mediterranean North Africa are, to all intents and purposes, Arab, as a result of the Arabian conquests. Egypt is probably "more Arab" than, say, Tunisia or Algeria, but obviously a lot less so than (say) Iraq or Syria. My understanding is that a fair number of Egyptians will self-describe as Arabs (far more so than as Africans), and historically they have tended to co-operate with, for example, the Arab League, so politically they are generally at least as tied to the Middle East as any of their actual neighbours. But I think a lot of Egyptians would say they are Egyptians first and Arabs second, or not at all.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Vaxometer

    (All doses, all nations)

    Target 15,000,000
    Thru 10,520,433
    Required 4,479,564
    Days to target 12

    Yesterday's rate 376,922
    Required rate 373,297



    Lovely, though maybe adjust the number to reflect first doses as the target is based on that.

    What is good news is that the weekend seems to be less of an issue than I first thought it would be, this weekend just gone had 320k and 350k first doses done which isn't too far off the current required rate and it does seem as though capacity is still ramping up in some parts of the country.
    How many priority categories does that 15m represent?
    I thought it was 1-4, but I could be mistaken.
    Checked the Government vaccine plan. Cohorts 1-4 are about 15m people. Cohorts 5-9 another 17m. Remainder of adult population is about 21m.
    In England ?
    I don't think we've started here in Wales yet.

    The Pfizer vaccines are still in Drakeford's freezer.
    My wife and I had Pfizer
    You found the combination to Drakeford's freezer then.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Vaxometer

    (All doses, all nations)

    Target 15,000,000
    Thru 10,520,433
    Required 4,479,564
    Days to target 12

    Yesterday's rate 376,922
    Required rate 373,297



    Lovely, though maybe adjust the number to reflect first doses as the target is based on that.

    What is good news is that the weekend seems to be less of an issue than I first thought it would be, this weekend just gone had 320k and 350k first doses done which isn't too far off the current required rate and it does seem as though capacity is still ramping up in some parts of the country.
    How many priority categories does that 15m represent?
    I thought it was 1-4, but I could be mistaken.
    Checked the Government vaccine plan. Cohorts 1-4 are about 15m people. Cohorts 5-9 another 17m. Remainder of adult population is about 21m.
    In England ?
    No, those are UK figures.

    Remember that children aren't being vaccinated. There are about 15 million of them.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Johnson says infections are still 'alarmingly high'

    really?


    That's true in absolute terms – although the precipitous drop makes it somewhat less 'alarming' most of the population are simply too innumerate to grasp that concept.
  • The Vicar of Bath's take on the Salmond papers:

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/you-mustnt-slip-up/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Today's ZOE Covid Symptom Study vaccine webinar:

    - Survey of a million ZOE users about vaccine hesitancy: 95% want it, 5% are hesitant (worried about side effects, adverse reactions, and not knowing enough); BAME and poorer people are more hesitant;

    - study of vaccinated healthcare workers: relative COVID positivity rate reduces after two weeks and runs at about half that of unvaccinated healthcare workers thru to four weeks. But vaccinated people are still getting infected four weeks after their first dose;

    - AZN in the over-65s: issue is lack of reliable data (because the elderly were shielding and mostly not invited onto the trials), rather than any actual evidence that it is less effective;

    - for all the vaccines, statistics on avoiding hospitalisations are very impressive (near total);

    - development of new vaccines for new variants will be much quicker than initial development;

    - reaction to vaccine is personal: studies of identical twins find different responses in each;

    - adverse vaccine reactions (side effects) are on average greater at the second dose, and in people who have had covid already. Most only last a day, and 80% of people have none;

    - new idea that those who have had Covid may not need a second dose: this could accelerate vaccination programmes - a current research topic (currently people are only denied vaccination if they have tested positive within previous three weeks);

    - anyone with lasting symptoms (>48 hours) after the vaccine should get a covid test, as they may have been infected just prior.

    NB ZOE base is entirely self-selected, so there's biases in there. There won't be many Covid deniers have signed up, and it's heavily weighted to the techno savvy.
    True. On the other hand the database is hugely bigger than any other study, and the data is almost "live", without the lag effects that the other published databases all have. ZOE was the first to spot the later waves, including calling their regionality.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Sky

    UK third in the world on vaccinations

    We'd be second if it wasn't for Drakeford holding us back!
    It Will Take A Nation Of Drakefords To Hold Us Back
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    I think someone asked something similar earlier today...

    https://twitter.com/Dereklowe/status/1356665437505871872
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,215
    edited February 2021

    kinabalu said:

    @Malmesbury

    Dueling banjos on the Kipling :smile: -

    If a picture paints a thousand words
    Then why can't I paint you?
    The words will never show
    The you I've come to know
    And if a face could launch a thousand ships

    Then where am I to go?
    There's no one home but you
    You're all that's left me too
    And when my love for life is running dry

    You come and pour yourself on me
    If a man could be two places at one time
    I'd be with you tomorrow and today

    Beside you all the way
    If the world should stop revolving
    Spinning
    Spinning slowly down to die

    I'd spend the end with you
    And when the world was through
    Then one by one the stars would all go out
    Then you and I would simply fly away

    The last one I sent was Seigfried Sassoon...
    Ah ok. I personally liked that one more than the first one. He says nervously. Bit like a blind wine tasting where you hope you're not picking the plonk.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Well, the "what" is obvious.

    The question is how many vaccines we're prepared to give them for this.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    @Malmesbury

    Dueling banjos on the Kipling :smile: -

    If a picture paints a thousand words
    Then why can't I paint you?
    The words will never show
    The you I've come to know
    And if a face could launch a thousand ships

    Then where am I to go?
    There's no one home but you
    You're all that's left me too
    And when my love for life is running dry

    You come and pour yourself on me
    If a man could be two places at one time
    I'd be with you tomorrow and today

    Beside you all the way
    If the world should stop revolving
    Spinning
    Spinning slowly down to die

    I'd spend the end with you
    And when the world was through
    Then one by one the stars would all go out
    Then you and I would simply fly away

    The last one I sent was Seigfried Sassoon...
    Ah ok. I personally liked that one more than the first one. He says nervously. Bit like a blind wine tasting where you hope you're not picking the plonk.
    It's a very good illustration of the variability of Kipling that you could think it was him. There is something in Kipling for everyone. Ghost stories and science fiction...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Mirror journalist posted this a couple of minutes ago "Chris Shitty" hastily deleted

    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    ·
    4m
    (Deleted last tweet b/c of *serious* typo Grimacing face)

    Prof Chris Whitty clear that vaccine not yet having impact on death rate - though expects it will in next 2/3 weeks.

    CMO says it's possible to "convince yourself" there's early signs, but there is "no strong evidence" of that yet.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361

    I see the rate of decrease of cases is slowing but we’re still dropping circa 25% a week.

    The percentage look of decrease looks like it's accelerating to me. The decrease is almost linear and it shouldn't be if it was a consistent rate of decrease.

    Been dropping around 10k daily cases per per week and if that continued for a fortnight then by halftime we could have a day without any cases.

    Won't happen but hope we get as close to that as possible.
    We were experiencing cases decreasing at a rate of around 30% per week but now it’s more like 25% per week.

    You can see the small decrease in gradient here:



    I don’t think it’s a problem.
    My favourite so far is

    image
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,454

    Johnson says infections are still 'alarmingly high'

    really?

    Well yes - 20,000 new infections a day, say 14 day with it, thats 280,000 people with it right now. I'd say thats a lot of people.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Sky

    UK third in the world on vaccinations

    We'd be second if it wasn't for Drakeford holding us back!
    It Will Take A Nation Of Drakefords To Hold Us Back
    Lucky we are just a small nation. BBC Wales news reports every night that we are a country mile behind England. They have almost finished the first four groups, whilst we have barely started.

    For vaccinations and per capita deaths, Wales is twinned with the EU!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,355

    Looks like a job for the University of the Bleedin' Obvious to be honest...

    https://twitter.com/SepsisUK/status/1356978994726510592

    How much do you have to drink in 9 months to kill yourself
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    malcolmg said:

    Looks like a job for the University of the Bleedin' Obvious to be honest...

    https://twitter.com/SepsisUK/status/1356978994726510592

    How much do you have to drink in 9 months to kill yourself
    A bottle of cask strength turnip juice a day is borderline.... 2 and you are kaput.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,355
    Is that less than our Brexit Bonus. Seriously , anyone that posts something that Anas says is seriously stupid, the man is an idiot.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,355

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Vaxometer

    (All doses, all nations)

    Target 15,000,000
    Thru 10,520,433
    Required 4,479,564
    Days to target 12

    Yesterday's rate 376,922
    Required rate 373,297



    Lovely, though maybe adjust the number to reflect first doses as the target is based on that.

    What is good news is that the weekend seems to be less of an issue than I first thought it would be, this weekend just gone had 320k and 350k first doses done which isn't too far off the current required rate and it does seem as though capacity is still ramping up in some parts of the country.
    How many priority categories does that 15m represent?
    I thought it was 1-4, but I could be mistaken.
    Checked the Government vaccine plan. Cohorts 1-4 are about 15m people. Cohorts 5-9 another 17m. Remainder of adult population is about 21m.
    In England ?
    Only thing that counts on here G , unless it is abuse being thrown.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Sky

    UK third in the world on vaccinations

    We'd be second if it wasn't for Drakeford holding us back!
    It Will Take A Nation Of Drakefords To Hold Us Back
    Lucky we are just a small nation. BBC Wales news reports every night that we are a country mile behind England. They have almost finished the first four groups, whilst we have barely started.

    For vaccinations and per capita deaths, Wales is twinned with the EU!
    OK, yes, I know poor Drakeford has become a running joke, BUT...

    First doses: percentage of total population covered:

    England 15.4%
    Wales 14.7%
    Northern Ireland 13.0% (though they've done more second jabs than the rest of the UK)
    Scotland: 11.9%
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,696
    Endillion said:

    Well, the "what" is obvious.

    The question is how many vaccines we're prepared to give them for this.
    Given that they're not keen on AstraZeneca, we could offer to buy up their supplies and get the whole population done by the end of March.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    Yes they would. That’s why they speak Arabic...
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited February 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    Yes they would. That’s why they speak Arabic...
    And created the United Arab Republic with Syria and Yemen.

    Scratch that, not Yemen
  • God I hate people like this, I bet she has a picture of Macron in her living room.

    https://twitter.com/alistaircoleman/status/1357013769310916610
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Its interesting that the amount of hope Johnson and Whitty gave for any relaxation of any kind at any time in the future for the poor people of England was precisely zero.

  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Well, the "what" is obvious.

    The question is how many vaccines we're prepared to give them for this.
    Given that they're not keen on AstraZeneca, we could offer to buy up their supplies and get the whole population done by the end of March.
    We should see what rate of Pfizer : AZ they would accept.

    1 : 2? 1 : 3?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Endillion said:

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    It's complicated.

    Culturally, large parts of Mediterranean North Africa are, to all intents and purposes, Arab, as a result of the Arabian conquests. Egypt is probably "more Arab" than, say, Tunisia or Algeria, but obviously a lot less so than (say) Iraq or Syria. My understanding is that a fair number of Egyptians will self-describe as Arabs (far more so than as Africans), and historically they have tended to co-operate with, for example, the Arab League, so politically they are generally at least as tied to the Middle East as any of their actual neighbours. But I think a lot of Egyptians would say they are Egyptians first and Arabs second, or not at all.
    The Arab League is actually *based* in Cairo, because they wanted to be in the largest city in the Arab world.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934

    Its interesting that the amount of hope Johnson and Whitty gave for any relaxation of any kind at any time in the future for the poor people of England was precisely zero.

    Johnson talked about schools reopening on the 8th. That's a relaxation, isn't it?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Its interesting that the amount of hope Johnson and Whitty gave for any relaxation of any kind at any time in the future for the poor people of England was precisely zero.

    Whitty is a bloody dreary figure – he is unbearable.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,590
    edited February 2021
    I dont understand what point hes trying to make.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited February 2021

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like a job for the University of the Bleedin' Obvious to be honest...

    https://twitter.com/SepsisUK/status/1356978994726510592

    How much do you have to drink in 9 months to kill yourself
    A bottle of cask strength turnip juice a day is borderline.... 2 and you are kaput.
    The total figure is about 5,500 and comprises only deaths directly attributable to alcohol abuse. Almost all of these are long term liver damage; very unlikely someone would have gone from zero to liver failure in less than a year. If there’s a COVID impact it’ll be people with pre-existing problems who have failed to limit their alcohol during lockdown, rather than people who have made friends with Bill W due to the pandemic alone.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited February 2021

    Its interesting that the amount of hope Johnson and Whitty gave for any relaxation of any kind at any time in the future for the poor people of England was precisely zero.

    People don't need a drip feed of promises to feel hope right now - the positive vaccination programme is doing that already. Means they can save announcements on relaxation for when they can be much clearer about it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    Andy_JS said:

    I dont understand what point hes trying to make.
    That if Johnson was doing a Macron the acceptance rate would likely be a lot lower.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Andy_JS said:
    The JCVI numbers, as published in the Government vaccine plan earlier this month, show the total in cohorts 1-4 as approximately 15 million. If you tot up all the sub-categories then you arrive at 14.6 million.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Andy_JS said:

    I dont understand what point hes trying to make.
    Our politicians have been grown ups over vaccines.
  • malcolmg said:

    Is that less than our Brexit Bonus. Seriously , anyone that posts something that Anas says is seriously stupid, the man is an idiot.
    But he's got the voters of Guernsey onside!
  • ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    Yes they would. That’s why they speak Arabic...
    You mean, like the Irish speak English?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,590
    They must have updated the figure since the start of the year because every reliable source was saying 13.2 million at that time.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Andy_JS said:
    The JCVI numbers, as published in the Government vaccine plan earlier this month, show the total in cohorts 1-4 as approximately 15 million. If you tot up all the sub-categories then you arrive at 14.6 million.
    I might revise my vaxometer to 14.6million in that case, do you have a source?

    It could be quiet tight with the snowy weather forecast in the run-in so that 400k might yet make a difference.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kle4 said:

    Its interesting that the amount of hope Johnson and Whitty gave for any relaxation of any kind at any time in the future for the poor people of England was precisely zero.

    People don't need to drip feed of promises to feel hope right now - the positive vaccination programme is doing that already. Means they have save announcements on relaxation for when they can be much clearer about it.
    Indeed. The Government is waiting until later in the month to publish its plan - though FWIW the fact that the target for completing cohorts 1-4 is February 15th, and that in turn is precisely three weeks behind March 8th (when they've been talking about starting to unshutter the schools,) can't be a coincidence.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Clever. It’ll enable a much smoother Segway into deployment of the HY anti-independence masterplan.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited February 2021
    RobD said:

    Its interesting that the amount of hope Johnson and Whitty gave for any relaxation of any kind at any time in the future for the poor people of England was precisely zero.

    Johnson talked about schools reopening on the 8th. That's a relaxation, isn't it?
    Did he make a commitment to open schools on the 8th March?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Andy_JS said:
    The JCVI numbers, as published in the Government vaccine plan earlier this month, show the total in cohorts 1-4 as approximately 15 million. If you tot up all the sub-categories then you arrive at 14.6 million.
    I might revise my vaxometer to 14.6million in that case, do you have a source?

    It could be quiet tight with the snowy weather forecast in the run-in so that 400k might yet make a difference.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/951928/uk-covid-19-vaccines-delivery-plan-final.pdf

    Pages 26 & 27 - breakdown of cohorts and subgroups for England and for the UK.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361

    Andy_JS said:
    The JCVI numbers, as published in the Government vaccine plan earlier this month, show the total in cohorts 1-4 as approximately 15 million. If you tot up all the sub-categories then you arrive at 14.6 million.
    I might revise my vaxometer to 14.6million in that case, do you have a source?

    It could be quiet tight with the snowy weather forecast in the run-in so that 400k might yet make a difference.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-covid-19-vaccines-delivery-plan/uk-covid-19-vaccines-delivery-plan#prioritisation-1
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934

    RobD said:

    Its interesting that the amount of hope Johnson and Whitty gave for any relaxation of any kind at any time in the future for the poor people of England was precisely zero.

    Johnson talked about schools reopening on the 8th. That's a relaxation, isn't it?
    Did he make a commitment to open schools on the 8th March?
    Moving the goalposts aren't we?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    edited February 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    Yes they would. That’s why they speak Arabic...
    It is also why they joined the United Arab Republic with Syria in the 50s.

    Also, according to this 2011 poll, Arab and [their nation] are about as important as each other to the citizens of the middle east:

    https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/1121_arab_public_opinion.pdf

    What the EU would give for those kind of numbers...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited February 2021

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    Yes they would. That’s why they speak Arabic...
    You mean, like the Irish speak English?
    If you are aware of a separate Egyptian language, please feel free to instruct me.

    Egypt has been within the orbit of the Arab world for centuries, and Cairo was capital of one of the two Caliphates of Islam (the Fatimids) which was a pan-Arab empire. I have never heard, until today, any suggestion that its inhabitants were not considered Arabs, including by themselves.

    Edit - incidentally its full official name is ‘The Arab Republic of Egypt.’
  • A few people did the clap in our neck of the woods for Captain Tom. 6pm a better time for it to get the girls involved, last summer they only did it a few times as they were often in bed by then.

    A good idea to do it as a one off today.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited February 2021
    From CNN, a story of someone sucked into believing the QAnon world view:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/03/tech/qanon-mom-former-believer/index.html

    But on the morning of January 20th, 2021, Trump flew out of Washington to his new home in Florida and Biden became the 46th President of the United States. "I was devastated," Vanderbilt recalls. "Instantly, I went into panic mode." She called her mom who was at work. "I just told her it's like we're all going to die. We're going to be owned by China. And I was like, I might have to pull my daughter out of school because they're going to take her."
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    Yes they would. That’s why they speak Arabic...
    So, you are saying that most Welsh are English...? 😀
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited February 2021
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    Yes they would. That’s why they speak Arabic...
    You mean, like the Irish speak English?
    If you are aware of a separate Egyptian language, please feel free to instruct me.

    Egypt has been within the orbit of the Arab world for centuries, and Cairo was capital of one of the two Caliphates of Islam (the Fatimids) which was a pan-Arab empire. I have never heard, until today, any suggestion that its inhabitants were not considered Arabs, including by themselves.
    I wouldn't dispute that, but noting the language they speak was an odd way to rule on the question. I mean, you said the word Arab includes them because they speak Arabic, that logic really doesn't work most of the time.

    From the man who picked up on someone talking about their car being vaccinated through ambiguous language, it's an open goal.
  • Andy_JS said:

    I dont understand what point hes trying to make.
    Terrible government interference from EU countries like... Switzerland...

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-swiss-astrazeneca/swiss-delay-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-approval-order-more-shots-from-others-idUSKBN2A32GV

    (Can we all agree that, whilst the Oxford jab is almost certainly a Good Thing, the people who arranging approval have made a complete horlicks of it, and that caution about approving new medicines is not a totally Bad Thing?)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,215
    edited February 2021

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    @Malmesbury

    Dueling banjos on the Kipling :smile: -

    If a picture paints a thousand words
    Then why can't I paint you?
    The words will never show
    The you I've come to know
    And if a face could launch a thousand ships

    Then where am I to go?
    There's no one home but you
    You're all that's left me too
    And when my love for life is running dry

    You come and pour yourself on me
    If a man could be two places at one time
    I'd be with you tomorrow and today

    Beside you all the way
    If the world should stop revolving
    Spinning
    Spinning slowly down to die

    I'd spend the end with you
    And when the world was through
    Then one by one the stars would all go out
    Then you and I would simply fly away

    The last one I sent was Seigfried Sassoon...
    Ah ok. I personally liked that one more than the first one. He says nervously. Bit like a blind wine tasting where you hope you're not picking the plonk.
    It's a very good illustration of the variability of Kipling that you could think it was him. There is something in Kipling for everyone. Ghost stories and science fiction...
    Confession - had to assume Kipling to get the hook to post my If by the great Savalas. Kipling's If eye do like. It does what it says on the tin. Not keen on that one Richard Tyndall said was brilliant though. Each to his own of course.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Its interesting that the amount of hope Johnson and Whitty gave for any relaxation of any kind at any time in the future for the poor people of England was precisely zero.

    Johnson talked about schools reopening on the 8th. That's a relaxation, isn't it?
    Did he make a commitment to open schools on the 8th March?
    Moving the goalposts aren't we?
    I'll take that as a no.

    So as I say, Johnson and Whitty gave the English public no hope for the future whatsoever. Nothing. Nada.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361

    Andy_JS said:

    I dont understand what point hes trying to make.
    Terrible government interference from EU countries like... Switzerland...

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-swiss-astrazeneca/swiss-delay-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-approval-order-more-shots-from-others-idUSKBN2A32GV

    (Can we all agree that, whilst the Oxford jab is almost certainly a Good Thing, the people who arranging approval have made a complete horlicks of it, and that caution about approving new medicines is not a totally Bad Thing?)
    Except that the Swiss regulator made a decision, not a politician briefing journalists randomly.
  • Andy_JS said:

    I dont understand what point hes trying to make.
    Terrible government interference from EU countries like... Switzerland...

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-swiss-astrazeneca/swiss-delay-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-approval-order-more-shots-from-others-idUSKBN2A32GV

    (Can we all agree that, whilst the Oxford jab is almost certainly a Good Thing, the people who arranging approval have made a complete horlicks of it, and that caution about approving new medicines is not a totally Bad Thing?)
    ETA: Also, Switzerland appears to be another rich nimble country that hasn't taken the Bunter In A Tuckshop approach to buying vaccines. Whilst Bunter In A Tuckshop has worked well for us and the US, the EU Commission haven't been unique in their approach.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    Yes they would. That’s why they speak Arabic...
    So, you are saying that most Welsh are English...? 😀
    Why do you think the touchstone of Welsh nationalism (a few dimwitted hotheads aside) is not independence but defence of the Welsh language?

    It is precisely because the anglicised Welsh are regarded, to quote one scholar on the subject, as ‘a sort of strange English people.’
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,215

    A few people did the clap in our neck of the woods for Captain Tom. 6pm a better time for it to get the girls involved, last summer they only did it a few times as they were often in bed by then.

    A good idea to do it as a one off today.

    I heard a ripple and then some whooping at the end.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    No clapping heard here tonight.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Andy_JS said:
    The JCVI numbers, as published in the Government vaccine plan earlier this month, show the total in cohorts 1-4 as approximately 15 million. If you tot up all the sub-categories then you arrive at 14.6 million.
    Yes, I think I'm right to state the target as 15 million, having read your source.

    It's true that all individual cohorts only tot up to 14.6m, but the government itself uses the 15 million figure in the same table as an approximation.

    So I'll stick with 15m!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2021
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    Yes they would. That’s why they speak Arabic...
    You mean, like the Irish speak English?
    If you are aware of a separate Egyptian language, please feel free to instruct me.

    Egypt has been within the orbit of the Arab world for centuries, and Cairo was capital of one of the two Caliphates of Islam (the Fatimids) which was a pan-Arab empire. I have never heard, until today, any suggestion that its inhabitants were not considered Arabs, including by themselves.

    Edit - incidentally its full official name is ‘The Arab Republic of Egypt.’
    I can't comment on what you've heard, but if you were a Guardian reader, for example, you might have come across this old article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jul/08/egyptian-arab-cultural-identity

    Or if you were to look in the Repository of All Human Knowledge, you'd have seen this:

    Many Egyptians today feel that Egyptian and Arab identities are inextricably linked, and emphasize the central role that Egypt plays in the Arab world. Others continue to believe that Egypt and Egyptians are simply not Arab, emphasizing indigenous Egyptian heritage, culture and independent polity, pointing to the perceived failures of Arab and pan-Arab nationalist policies. Egyptian anthropologist Laila el-Hamamsy illustrates the modern-day relationship between the two trends, stating: "in light of their history, Egyptians ... should be conscious of their national identity and consider themselves, above all, Egyptians. How is the Egyptian, with this strong sense of Egyptian identity, able to look himself as an Arab too?"[124] Her explanation is that Egyptianization translated as Arabization with the result being "an increased tempo of Arabization, for facility in the Arabic language opened the windows into the rich legacy of Arabic culture. ... Thus in seeking a cultural identity, Egypt has revived its Arab cultural heritage."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptians#Nasserism

    As for the Caliphates, are you suggesting Turks and Iranians regard themselves as Arabs?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Its interesting that the amount of hope Johnson and Whitty gave for any relaxation of any kind at any time in the future for the poor people of England was precisely zero.

    Johnson talked about schools reopening on the 8th. That's a relaxation, isn't it?
    Did he make a commitment to open schools on the 8th March?
    Moving the goalposts aren't we?
    I'll take that as a no.

    So as I say, Johnson and Whitty gave the English public no hope for the future whatsoever. Nothing. Nada.

    No, they said the plan was to open on the 8th.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited February 2021
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    Yes they would. That’s why they speak Arabic...
    You mean, like the Irish speak English?
    If you are aware of a separate Egyptian language, please feel free to instruct me.

    Egypt has been within the orbit of the Arab world for centuries, and Cairo was capital of one of the two Caliphates of Islam (the Fatimids) which was a pan-Arab empire. I have never heard, until today, any suggestion that its inhabitants were not considered Arabs, including by themselves.
    I wouldn't dispute that, but noting the language they speak was an odd way to rule on the question. I mean, you said the word Arab includes them because they speak Arabic, that logic really doesn't work most of the time.

    From the man who picked up on someone talking about their car being vaccinated through ambiguous language, it's an open goal.
    Well, it seemed the simplest way to explain it without going into a lot of depth on the ethnic changes that happened in Egypt over the last few centuries that made it an Arab rather than an African country.

    Of course, it does depend a bit on what you mean by ‘Arab.’ Arguably the Maltese and Sicilians are Arabs in some strict definitions but few people think of them that way. Similarly, many Kurds live in Arabia proper but except when the Arab rulers are trying to arrogate Saladin’s prestige to themselves (Saddam) they’re not considered Arabs.

    Edit - in any case, what you’ve quoted surely completely contradicts your original claim that Egyptians don’t think of themselves as Arabs!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    An extra 81...next week another 100, then another 1000...it's Vietnam all over isn't it?

    If the Scotland domino falls, it could be Wales next....
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Its interesting that the amount of hope Johnson and Whitty gave for any relaxation of any kind at any time in the future for the poor people of England was precisely zero.

    Johnson talked about schools reopening on the 8th. That's a relaxation, isn't it?
    Did he make a commitment to open schools on the 8th March?
    Moving the goalposts aren't we?
    I'll take that as a no.

    So as I say, Johnson and Whitty gave the English public no hope for the future whatsoever. Nothing. Nada.

    We are not "nearly there yet," and they declined to say "Yes, we are nearly there," is your complaint, is it?
  • justin124 said:

    No clapping heard here tonight.

    Nor here
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,478

    malcolmg said:

    Is that less than our Brexit Bonus. Seriously , anyone that posts something that Anas says is seriously stupid, the man is an idiot.
    But he's got the voters of Guernsey onside!
    He's also never conspired to get his party rivals thrown into jail, which is always a nice bonus.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    Yes they would. That’s why they speak Arabic...
    You mean, like the Irish speak English?
    If you are aware of a separate Egyptian language, please feel free to instruct me.

    Egypt has been within the orbit of the Arab world for centuries, and Cairo was capital of one of the two Caliphates of Islam (the Fatimids) which was a pan-Arab empire. I have never heard, until today, any suggestion that its inhabitants were not considered Arabs, including by themselves.

    Edit - incidentally its full official name is ‘The Arab Republic of Egypt.’
    I can't comment on what you've heard, but if you were a Guardian reader, for example, you might have come across this old article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jul/08/egyptian-arab-cultural-identity

    Or if you were to look in the Repository of All Human Knowledge, you'd have seen this:

    Many Egyptians today feel that Egyptian and Arab identities are inextricably linked, and emphasize the central role that Egypt plays in the Arab world. Others continue to believe that Egypt and Egyptians are simply not Arab, emphasizing indigenous Egyptian heritage, culture and independent polity, pointing to the perceived failures of Arab and pan-Arab nationalist policies. Egyptian anthropologist Laila el-Hamamsy illustrates the modern-day relationship between the two trends, stating: "in light of their history, Egyptians ... should be conscious of their national identity and consider themselves, above all, Egyptians. How is the Egyptian, with this strong sense of Egyptian identity, able to look himself as an Arab too?"[124] Her explanation is that Egyptianization translated as Arabization with the result being "an increased tempo of Arabization, for facility in the Arabic language opened the windows into the rich legacy of Arabic culture. ... Thus in seeking a cultural identity, Egypt has revived its Arab cultural heritage."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptians#Nasserism

    As for the Caliphates, are you suggesting Turks and Iranians regard themselves as Arabs?
    I don’t routinely read the Guardian.

    As for the Turks, apart from ruling most of Arabia in the centuries after the collapse of the Baghdad and Cairo Caliphates, where do they come into it?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    So much for being "the global laughing stock"......

    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1356933140028289025?s=20

    Worth bearing the old Egyptian saying in mind:

    Why doesn't the sun set on the British Empire? Because God doesn't trust them in the dark!

    The Arabs preferred:

    It is better to be an enemy of the British than their friend. They buy their enemies - and sell their friends
    Interesting that the Egyptians are separated from the Arabs ...
    The comments were from the end of the 19th century/early 20th century when "Arabs" referred to inhabitants of Arabia rather than the wider definition that it has subsequently(?) developed.
    IANAE, but I'd have thought Egyptians today wouldn't think of themselves as Arabs, would they? Certainly in English I wouldn't think that the word Arab included them.
    Yes they would. That’s why they speak Arabic...
    So, you are saying that most Welsh are English...? 😀
    Why do you think the touchstone of Welsh nationalism (a few dimwitted hotheads aside) is not independence but defence of the Welsh language?

    It is precisely because the anglicised Welsh are regarded, to quote one scholar on the subject, as ‘a sort of strange English people.’
    So, Scots and Irish are even more English! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,666
    edited February 2021
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    justin124 said:

    No clapping heard here tonight.

    Here neither. But then it was daylight when we were doing it before. And Tom hasn’t been short of recognition, worth somewhat more when he is actually alive.
  • Switzerland has refused to approve the AstraZeneca Covid, vaccine with regulators raising concerns over insufficient test data and arguing 'new studies' are needed.

    Pseudo-science....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    Probably the EU's secret space laser.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Damn you, coastal erosion, will you never cease?!
This discussion has been closed.