I've had TB and I've got emphysema so I hope I should be getting my vaccination letter soon. I'd happily give up my priority to those ahead of me in the list in Ireland.
Good. A few more steps backwards to do. First they need to give up the whole nonsense of export 'checks', then issue an abject apology to AZ, and then they can start again with by trying to work constructively with the vaccine manufacturers (and with us, for that matter).
That is a sweeping climb down.
I'm glad to see it, I just wish we hadn't had to go through the insanity first. Because once you've said something, it cannot be unsaid.
Have they repealed their export authorization rules? Don't think so until they do its just the vapid words of a stupid woman
"no restrictions on the export of vaccines... fulfilling contractual requirements" is pretty unambiguous.
It's a massive (and welcome) walk back. But it should never have been necessary.
Then they should have no issue repealing the regulation should they...until they do I don't believe them
Lying would mean (among other things) that pharmaceutical companies that might have just breathed a sigh of relief, would redouble or treble their efforts to move production outside the EU.
Also remember that the EU don't need to change the regulation to be telling the truth, because the regulation in question simply requires notification of exports. Whether to block them rests at the national level.
Good. A few more steps backwards to do. First they need to give up the whole nonsense of export 'checks', then issue an abject apology to AZ, and then they can start again with by trying to work constructively with the vaccine manufacturers (and with us, for that matter).
Lol - i'm not sure she's completely conceded the argument over the AZ contract
If the threats to block the UK's orders have been rescinded then that's the main thing - provided that the EU's position doesn't change again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next. After recent events one could be forgiven for wondering what on Earth they might come out with next.
If the legal opinions we've all read are anything like accurate then there shouldn't be any issues with the AZ supply either. If it goes to court that should hopefully take long enough not to make any practical difference to Britain's rollout, and in any event the consensus would appear to be that the Commission's case is slim to non-existent.
Working constructively with us will depend on how generous the UK Government is feeling as much as the attitude of the EU. Being put on an export control list for products for which the Commission was prepared to offer exempt access to Syria is a major insult. We will, of course, deal with them because we have to, but for one thing I should imagine that if there was any plan to let the Commission's "ambassador" in London have his red carpet treatment and Zoom call with the Queen, then that's just been cast into today's dumpster fire.
It seems to me that the list of exemptions/non-exemptions is perhaps the key thing to come out of this.
As I understand the regulation hasn't been rescinded its just vdl saying she didnt mean it. Belgium I believe is already in the process of setting up a regulatory authority
Whether or not it's rescinded, it seems to offer an insight into which countries the EU views as friendly nations.
Good. A few more steps backwards to do. First they need to give up the whole nonsense of export 'checks', then issue an abject apology to AZ, and then they can start again with by trying to work constructively with the vaccine manufacturers (and with us, for that matter).
That is a sweeping climb down.
I'm glad to see it, I just wish we hadn't had to go through the insanity first. Because once you've said something, it cannot be unsaid.
Have they repealed their export authorization rules? Don't think so until they do its just the vapid words of a stupid woman
"no restrictions on the export of vaccines... fulfilling contractual requirements" is pretty unambiguous.
It's a massive (and welcome) walk back. But it should never have been necessary.
Then they should have no issue repealing the regulation should they...until they do I don't believe them
Lying would mean (among other things) that pharmaceutical companies that might have just breathed a sigh of relief, would redouble or treble their efforts to move production outside the EU.
Also remember that the EU don't need to change the regulation to be telling the truth, because the regulation in question simply requires notification of exports. Whether to block them rests at the national level.
If we pass a law allowing hanging...but swear we dont plan to use it would you believe our parliament
I've had TB and I've got emphysema so I hope I should be getting my vaccination letter soon. I'd happily give up my priority to those ahead of me in the list in Ireland.
I was offered a route to getting the vaccine recently. Turned it down, I'm very low in the priority list and the vision of taking up a vaccine instead of my own elderly mother who is awaiting an invitation just wouldn't have sat well.
This thing of Remainiacs being the EU's biggest supporters in Europe is really weird. I've just had a zoom dinner with my (very surprisingly to me) fanatically remain parents. They're Tories but they hate Boris, and they're appalled that we left the EU.
I tried to discuss with them what the EU has done over the last 48 hours and we nearly fell out because they seem to have become obsessed with how bad Boris and Brexit are.
I can only hope that their blindness will soon be cured by the EU's future disgraceful actions.
BREAKING NEW - Ranks for Members of new US Space Force effective Feb 1. Despite plea by William Shatner and previous US House vote, instead of using ranks based on US Navy, the USSF will use ranks based on US Army.
One reason (aside from inter-service rivalry within US military) is that Pentagon brass made commitment to gender-neutral ranks. Which left out "spaceman" along the lines of "airman" and "seaman".
Brexit threatens the peace process for 5 years...the EU for 5 hours. Get some perspective.
I assume you are referring to NI. Despite all the nonsense talked there was never a chance that the UK leaving the EU was going to result a fresh round of trouble to any great degree. Remarkably little comment or suggestion was made by ANY of the Northern Ireland parties about a return to trouble, i.e. no peace. Most of the talk was from external parties.
There is no peace process. It ended a long time ago. There is a political process and people particularly on the outside need to get over themselves by this constant referral to the peace process. NI has devolution and and it has a political system, flawed as it is.
The only way that "peace" will end in Northern Ireland will be if the "community leaders" get tired of 6 figure salaries for doing the square root of nothing.
I've had TB and I've got emphysema so I hope I should be getting my vaccination letter soon. I'd happily give up my priority to those ahead of me in the list in Ireland.
I was offered a route to getting the vaccine recently. Turned it down, I'm very low in the priority list and the vision of taking up a vaccine instead of my own elderly mother who is awaiting an invitation just wouldn't have sat well.
So long as someone else got the jab instead of you, I applaud your decision.
BREAKING NEW - Ranks for Members of new US Space Force effective Feb 1. Despite plea by William Shatner and previous US House vote, instead of using ranks based on US Navy, the USSF will use ranks based on US Army.
One reason (aside from inter-service rivalry within US military) is that Pentagon brass made commitment to gender-neutral ranks. Which left out "spaceman" along the lines of "airman" and "seaman".
I've had TB and I've got emphysema so I hope I should be getting my vaccination letter soon. I'd happily give up my priority to those ahead of me in the list in Ireland.
I was offered a route to getting the vaccine recently. Turned it down, I'm very low in the priority list and the vision of taking up a vaccine instead of my own elderly mother who is awaiting an invitation just wouldn't have sat well.
At least you are giving up your jab for others where some are intent on giving up other peoples jabs
BREAKING NEW - Ranks for Members of new US Space Force effective Feb 1. Despite plea by William Shatner and previous US House vote, instead of using ranks based on US Navy, the USSF will use ranks based on US Army.
One reason (aside from inter-service rivalry within US military) is that Pentagon brass made commitment to gender-neutral ranks. Which left out "spaceman" along the lines of "airman" and "seaman".
Good. A few more steps backwards to do. First they need to give up the whole nonsense of export 'checks', then issue an abject apology to AZ, and then they can start again with by trying to work constructively with the vaccine manufacturers (and with us, for that matter).
Lol - i'm not sure she's completely conceded the argument over the AZ contract
If the threats to block the UK's orders have been rescinded then that's the main thing - provided that the EU's position doesn't change again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next. After recent events one could be forgiven for wondering what on Earth they might come out with next.
If the legal opinions we've all read are anything like accurate then there shouldn't be any issues with the AZ supply either. If it goes to court that should hopefully take long enough not to make any practical difference to Britain's rollout, and in any event the consensus would appear to be that the Commission's case is slim to non-existent.
Working constructively with us will depend on how generous the UK Government is feeling as much as the attitude of the EU. Being put on an export control list for products for which the Commission was prepared to offer exempt access to Syria is a major insult. We will, of course, deal with them because we have to, but for one thing I should imagine that if there was any plan to let the Commission's "ambassador" in London have his red carpet treatment and Zoom call with the Queen, then that's just been cast into today's dumpster fire.
It seems to me that the list of exemptions/non-exemptions is perhaps the key thing to come out of this.
As I understand the regulation hasn't been rescinded its just vdl saying she didnt mean it. Belgium I believe is already in the process of setting up a regulatory authority
Whether or not it's rescinded, it seems to offer an insight into which countries the EU views as friendly nations.
Good. A few more steps backwards to do. First they need to give up the whole nonsense of export 'checks', then issue an abject apology to AZ, and then they can start again with by trying to work constructively with the vaccine manufacturers (and with us, for that matter).
Lol - i'm not sure she's completely conceded the argument over the AZ contract
If the threats to block the UK's orders have been rescinded then that's the main thing - provided that the EU's position doesn't change again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next. After recent events one could be forgiven for wondering what on Earth they might come out with next.
If the legal opinions we've all read are anything like accurate then there shouldn't be any issues with the AZ supply either. If it goes to court that should hopefully take long enough not to make any practical difference to Britain's rollout, and in any event the consensus would appear to be that the Commission's case is slim to non-existent.
Working constructively with us will depend on how generous the UK Government is feeling as much as the attitude of the EU. Being put on an export control list for products for which the Commission was prepared to offer exempt access to Syria is a major insult. We will, of course, deal with them because we have to, but for one thing I should imagine that if there was any plan to let the Commission's "ambassador" in London have his red carpet treatment and Zoom call with the Queen, then that's just been cast into today's dumpster fire.
It seems to me that the list of exemptions/non-exemptions is perhaps the key thing to come out of this.
As I understand the regulation hasn't been rescinded its just vdl saying she didnt mean it. Belgium I believe is already in the process of setting up a regulatory authority
Whether or not it's rescinded, it seems to offer an insight into which countries the EU views as friendly nations.
"Labour failing to win back enough Tory voters, officials warn Low expectation of ‘standstill’ result at May local elections as only 4% of Tories switch"
Even on a day like today, when already bungled themselves into vaccine hole, EU dug it infinitely deeper almost creating a land border in Ireland (yes, serious mistake) before they backtracked making themselves a laughing stock, yet there is still no reason to get emotive about how we can and should help Europe nations in their hour of crisis.
My reasoning is this.
It’s not that all the difficult decisions have been made and it’s some sort of game set and match here. COVID crisis still has a long way to run. It’s not just preventing hospitalisation and death to aim for, but restrict transmissions, and as newer vaccines come along, some actually based on COVID itself, they may be better at one or the other, or just all round better than what you have stockpiled and still jabbing away with. Also now the need to be innovative with the range of weaponry, mix and matching to try to find the optimum delivery. It leads to more crucial decisions yet to be taken.
That’s why I say do what you can to avoid Vaccine Nationalism. UK to foster as big a coalition of cooperation and support as it can - ignore how or why EU have crisis, simply recognise crisis on our doorstep, and talk and explore how we can help them with it, without too much detriment to ourselves.
Because at some point before this is over, we may yet need help in return.
It looks likely that the Government is going to be left with a vast surplus of vaccines before this is all done. They have dodged the question earlier today of what they intend to do once phase one of the JCVI scheme is complete, which might not take very long at all at the current rate of progress. I dare say that the Government would've been happy to help the EU, amongst other parties. If they don't completely wreck our friendship by seizing all the UK's Pfizer orders then the UK Government probably will still help them.
But how is the UK Government meant to find the political room to do anything to help in the first place if this rotten lot treat us as the enemy? Look at the enormous list of exemptions on their export control list, and then look at who isn't exempted. Then also take a look at the noises off that have come from their side, not just attacking AstraZeneca for the dreadful failing of not being able to deliver enough of a vaccine that the European Commission ordered far too late, but also foaming on about the UK showing insufficient solidarity, or wanting to start a vaccine war, or whatever other fictitious, bullshit accusation springs to mind.
God alone knows the British Government is very far from bloody perfect, but in this case the entire fault for today's collective nervous breakdown lies at the door of the EU. They've done the sabre rattling, they've issued the threats, they've treated us as the enemy. All because they're looking for a scapegoat to try to obscure their own mistakes, and have decided that the UK is the best candidate available.
I know that the European Commission and the member state politicians alike are facing a disaster and they're desperate, but beating us over the head, as a displacement activity to avoid having to confront their own liability, isn't on. We can help them, but first they need to back the Hell off.
There is zero reasons to help europeans they can afford their own...all our surplus should go to the third world countries that cant afford to immunize their people
The CTA is a good reason
If it is true that there is a very nasty 3rd wave on the way and that is what has EU countries spooked then I think it would be a matter of self preservation to get the whole island of Ireland jabbed as fast as possible.
But that is an almost secondary reason. Eire shares these islands with us and I think that in itself is as good a reason as any to help them out. I am not convinced that the rest of the EU can or will look out for them. It is a matter of common decency that we do.
To be honest if the amount of vaccine coming down the line is anything like what is expected we would be able to get Ireland jabbed and meet or even exceed our commitments under COVAX without to much of a problem.
And we should do, not because of Imperial guilt, or self preservation or even self promotion but because it is simply the right thing to do.
I entirely agree. But are Ireland allowed by the EU to take our vaccine? Would they want it after the President of France rubbished it?
Yes they are. It is what makes this whole debacle so sad. Any country in the EU could have chosen to make their own vaccine arrangements and they still can. But they almost all chose to delegate that authority to the EU. Some have now thought better of it - Hungary for example is getting its vaccine from Russia. Ireland could very easily accept vaccines from the UK if it had the political will and the need to do so.
That is absolutely right. None were obliged by being in EU to have gone down this route, they all could have done a UK. In that sense it’s not really an EU “thing”.
In some sense though (without that benefit of hindsight where they entrusted a commercial department at the commission which achieved a bigger disaster than Chernobyl) there is merit in initially wishing to avoid the messy, divisive, winners and losers mad scramble of COVID nationalism, isn’t there?
The difference between the UK and other European countries may be that an awful lot of the so called anti-vaxxers in the UK are what you might politely describe as professional contrarians who, when it comes down to it, will in fact be making their way down to the vaccination centre to have their jab when invited to do so. Their opposition to it is often a lot of hot air. By contrast in other countries, like France, a lot of the anti-vaxxers are the real deal. When they say they won't be having the jab, they actually mean it.
Yesterday feels like the EU’s Black Wednesday. Desperately trying everything to fight reality before backtracking when it became obvious that they couldn’t succeed.
But I suspect the damage to UvdL and the rest of the Commission will probably be a lot less than what happened to the Tories here.
Even on a day like today, when already bungled themselves into vaccine hole, EU dug it infinitely deeper almost creating a land border in Ireland (yes, serious mistake) before they backtracked making themselves a laughing stock, yet there is still no reason to get emotive about how we can and should help Europe nations in their hour of crisis.
My reasoning is this.
It’s not that all the difficult decisions have been made and it’s some sort of game set and match here. COVID crisis still has a long way to run. It’s not just preventing hospitalisation and death to aim for, but restrict transmissions, and as newer vaccines come along, some actually based on COVID itself, they may be better at one or the other, or just all round better than what you have stockpiled and still jabbing away with. Also now the need to be innovative with the range of weaponry, mix and matching to try to find the optimum delivery. It leads to more crucial decisions yet to be taken.
That’s why I say do what you can to avoid Vaccine Nationalism. UK to foster as big a coalition of cooperation and support as it can - ignore how or why EU have crisis, simply recognise crisis on our doorstep, and talk and explore how we can help them with it, without too much detriment to ourselves.
Because at some point before this is over, we may yet need help in return.
It looks likely that the Government is going to be left with a vast surplus of vaccines before this is all done. They have dodged the question earlier today of what they intend to do once phase one of the JCVI scheme is complete, which might not take very long at all at the current rate of progress. I dare say that the Government would've been happy to help the EU, amongst other parties. If they don't completely wreck our friendship by seizing all the UK's Pfizer orders then the UK Government probably will still help them.
But how is the UK Government meant to find the political room to do anything to help in the first place if this rotten lot treat us as the enemy? Look at the enormous list of exemptions on their export control list, and then look at who isn't exempted. Then also take a look at the noises off that have come from their side, not just attacking AstraZeneca for the dreadful failing of not being able to deliver enough of a vaccine that the European Commission ordered far too late, but also foaming on about the UK showing insufficient solidarity, or wanting to start a vaccine war, or whatever other fictitious, bullshit accusation springs to mind.
God alone knows the British Government is very far from bloody perfect, but in this case the entire fault for today's collective nervous breakdown lies at the door of the EU. They've done the sabre rattling, they've issued the threats, they've treated us as the enemy. All because they're looking for a scapegoat to try to obscure their own mistakes, and have decided that the UK is the best candidate available.
I know that the European Commission and the member state politicians alike are facing a disaster and they're desperate, but beating us over the head, as a displacement activity to avoid having to confront their own liability, isn't on. We can help them, but first they need to back the Hell off.
There is zero reasons to help europeans they can afford their own...all our surplus should go to the third world countries that cant afford to immunize their people
The CTA is a good reason
If it is true that there is a very nasty 3rd wave on the way and that is what has EU countries spooked then I think it would be a matter of self preservation to get the whole island of Ireland jabbed as fast as possible.
But that is an almost secondary reason. Eire shares these islands with us and I think that in itself is as good a reason as any to help them out. I am not convinced that the rest of the EU can or will look out for them. It is a matter of common decency that we do.
To be honest if the amount of vaccine coming down the line is anything like what is expected we would be able to get Ireland jabbed and meet or even exceed our commitments under COVAX without to much of a problem.
And we should do, not because of Imperial guilt, or self preservation or even self promotion but because it is simply the right thing to do.
I entirely agree. But are Ireland allowed by the EU to take our vaccine? Would they want it after the President of France rubbished it?
Yes they are. It is what makes this whole debacle so sad. Any country in the EU could have chosen to make their own vaccine arrangements and they still can. But they almost all chose to delegate that authority to the EU. Some have now thought better of it - Hungary for example is getting its vaccine from Russia. Ireland could very easily accept vaccines from the UK if it had the political will and the need to do so.
That is absolutely right. None were obliged by being in EU to have gone down this route, they all could have done a UK. In that sense it’s not really an EU “thing”.
In some sense though (without that benefit of hindsight where they entrusted a commercial department at the commission which achieved a bigger disaster than Chernobyl) there is merit in initially wishing to avoid the messy, divisive, winners and losers mad scramble of COVID nationalism, isn’t there?
To my mind the real tragedy is that this isn't a zero sum game. If we can believe AstraZeneca - and on the evidence of the last few days I would believe them a hundred times over the shower in Brussels - if the EU hadn't haggled and delayed making the agreement, there might have been time to resolve the production difficulties in the European plants and there might have been much more vaccine to go round.
So not only is the EU quite possibly at least partly responsible for the shortfall they're complaining about, but they are now making things ten time worse by cheap political posturing to try to deflect criticism of their incompetence.
If the EU has really acknowledged that contracts should be fulfilled, that's something. But what a comment on the mess they have produced - that we feel thankful for something that should be axiomatic.
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
Of course the EU shitting the bed doesn't change the fact that our choice to leave the EEA, the CU and not to consider how trade works in practice was bloody stupid and masochistic.
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
Solidarity is everything! The EU ro[bots] are back. However, who knew the EC has blocked the export of paragaphs!?
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
Of course the EU shitting the bed doesn't change the fact that our choice to leave the EEA, the CU and not to consider how trade works in practice was bloody stupid and masochistic.
I think a period of quiet reflection is needed after this shocking ratner moment for the appalling EU
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
Oh dear - after this last few days trying to defend the indefensible EU and its shocking behaviour
Of course the EU shitting the bed doesn't change the fact that our choice to leave the EEA, the CU and not to consider how trade works in practice was bloody stupid and masochistic.
I think a period of quiet reflection is needed after this shocking ratner moment for the appalling EU
Reflection is needed for them, yes. For us we need to unbung our self-knackered ability to trade. Its the EEA and CU we need to link to, not the EU.
We could have left the EU - the referendum question - and not crippled ourselves. By not leaving things that are not the EU.
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
Your conclusion from recent events is that it's the _UK_ that is whipping up hatred against the _EU_?
Three cheers to OGH. He's never hidden his pro-EU views but has a sense of humour
I believe OGH has had his first Pfizer ... but not his second. (Happy to be corrected)
Clearly, those who had one Pfizer need the second in due course.
They can't be given the second dose of a different vaccine.
So, disruption of supplies by "our friends in the EU" may still cause problems -- even if we have plenty of other vaccines.
There is no particular reason that the Pfizer second dose needs also to be Pfizer. Obviously no such regime has yet been trialled, but neither has the Pfizer with a 12 week gap, so they are equally evidence free.
It is not so applicable to RNA vaccines, but those with a viral vector such as AZN may well work better with a different vaccine as booster. There is an AZN/Sputnik combination trial for example.
Yeah, but they all pretty much work - protein, mRNA, engineered adenovirus, attenuated virus, or killed virus - by presenting the S protein to the immune system - it is just the delivery vehicle that differs. So, at least in theory, interchangeability could work, and possible even better. But it is a biological system, so we won't know for sure until we have tried and got the data.
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
A post purporting to be progressive and above the fray of the 'feral British press' uses the phrase "BLACK propaganda."
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
Great post
I usually agree with you Mike but not this time. It's a poor post. It reduces everything to blame on the media. I am assuming that Cicero doesn't live here or he would follow events more closely. This isn't something whipped up by the media. The events of the past days, weeks and months are real: from the decisions taken last March by the UK Govt to step in and invest in AstraZeneca ahead of Merck through to our pre-ordering of vaccines from seven developers, signing contracts ahead of the EU, approving regulation ahead of the EU and starting to vaccinate our citizens ahead of the EU. That's where this issue fermented: not in the media. It's because the EU lagged far behind the EU and made a series of major errors.
As President Biden recently reminded us all, Cicero may be entitled to his own opinion but he is not entitled to his own facts.
There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship.
Let us consider what has happened just in the space of the last 24 hours.
*The European Commission has drawn up a vaccine export control mechanism that specifically exempts almost the whole of Europe from its terms, as well as a lengthy list of non-European states including Syria and Libya. But not the UK. Apparently no particular third parties are being targeted, but frankly if you believe that you'll believe anything *Having spent years insisting that an open border in Ireland is essential, the Commission then proceeded to harden it in a fit of pique (and without bothering to tell either us or the Irish, in contravention of its legal obligations,) just because its mistakes in the vaccine rollout had made it look bad. This tells us that, as was long claimed by the Eurosceptics and Unionists, the Northern Ireland protocol had nothing at all to do with respect for the delicate political situation there and everything to do with the EU exploiting the settlement to extract concessions *Adding to the strong suspicion that the Commission is trying to scapegoat the UK, we have the unedifying spectacle of the Justice Commissioner suggesting that "maybe the UK wants to start a vaccine war" - expanding its spat with AstraZeneca (which itself appears to have done absolutely nothing wrong) to take in the British Government, which is patently innocent of the accusation
Boris Johnson, many of his MPs and the dreaded newspapers can be accused of a great many things; however, they did not provoke any of the above. The Commission has been petulant, high-handed, capricious and has thrown its much vaunted commitment to playing by the rules in the bin when doing so became inconvenient to it. The member states (apart from Ireland, which has been shat on from orbit once again) have done nothing at all to check its behaviour. And, quite frankly, if these are the actions of a bloc that has "no real hostility" towards the UK then one shudders to think what they might do if they ever became cross with us.
The entire debacle, as infamously described not by the Daily Mail or The Sun but by Die Zeit, has been 'the best advertisement for Brexit.' Even amongst the pro-EU wing of our regular PB commentariat there has been almost universal condemnation of the bloc's behaviour and, in some instances, a reassessment of positions on the wisdom of having left. And who can blame them? One hardly has to be a fanatical member of the Conservative Party, or somehow blind to the appalling death toll that Britain has suffered during the pandemic, to recognise the toxic combination of incompetence and hostility that the EU has displayed.
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
“ It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade”.
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
“ It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade”.
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
“ It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade”.
Asteroid or nuclear war? Perhaps Godzilla?
Scottish independence? Northern Irish cessation?
It’s just possible I was being a bit facetious, and having a laugh at the hyperbole in “won’t survive”.
As often happens, there’s an underlying assumption that a plurality in England or Wales even cares whether Scotland or NI stay in the Union.
Of course the EU shitting the bed doesn't change the fact that our choice to leave the EEA, the CU and not to consider how trade works in practice was bloody stupid and masochistic.
I think a period of quiet reflection is needed after this shocking ratner moment for the appalling EU
Reflection is needed for them, yes. For us we need to unbung our self-knackered ability to trade. Its the EEA and CU we need to link to, not the EU.
We could have left the EU - the referendum question - and not crippled ourselves. By not leaving things that are not the EU.
The EEA is not quite the EU but it is something very close. It's essentially playing by most of the EU's rules - in exchange for some significant extra freedoms, to be sure - but nonetheless it's signing up to become a fax democracy, as the Norwegians have told us.
They're willing to cough up their protection money and keep quiet. The British Government has decided otherwise. And frankly, after this appalling episode, that's looking like a good call.
The more political distance we can put between the UK and the EU's apparatus, the better.
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
“ It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade”.
I wonder if we will look back at Cicero's comment with irony and a touch of schadenfreude?
Irony because it may not be the UK which doesn't survive the next decade.
*European Commission threatens key vaccine manufacturer with legal action for breaking commitments it appears not actually to have made *European Commission threatens its allies with vaccine export bans. Exempts Bashar al Assad *President of France spreads blatant anti-vax propaganda in country with Europe's highest rate of anti-vax sentiment *European Commission activates emergency clause in key international treaty without making required legal representations to relevant parties *European Commission deactivates emergency clause in key international treaty after relevant parties find out and complain
Is there anything I've missed?
There's plenty not on there. Two interesting ones are:
* That the EU Commission published their "redacted" contract with much of the redacted content left in the bookmarks. Which repeats the type of mistake that amateurs used to make in redactions at least 12-15 years ago, when you could read a many redacted reports by a staight cut and paste to Word or similar from the "editing" version of Acrobat.
That puts them in breach of their own confidentiality clause. Here, the bits in red are those that have been exposed by cockup (in addition to the prices sent out by mistake the other day): https://fragdenstaat.de/dokumente/8409-apa_-_astrazeneca/
* I'm seeing the first glimmerings of interesting debates about EU Reform from groups who have previously worshipped the ground it stands on. ie Young professionals / activists who have felt the EU has done much to help their countries move from e.g. old Easter Europe into the 21st century or say ROI citizens and online civil society activists. Debates about Democratic Deficit, how do we control this thing? Still plenty of belief in the fake stuff about AZT, but a glimmer.
(Personally I voted Brexit for sovereignty reasons, and because I think the EU as it was was an irreformable inward-looking pig-in-a-poke headed for the rocks, so I am encouraged by that. One question is how we help that process, it having proved impossible from inside.)
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
I would have campaigned hard to rejoin. And, personally, I was beginning to look at houses in Scotland for retirement in what I thought would become an EU country.
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
Of course the EU shitting the bed doesn't change the fact that our choice to leave the EEA, the CU and not to consider how trade works in practice was bloody stupid and masochistic.
I think a period of quiet reflection is needed after this shocking ratner moment for the appalling EU
Reflection is needed for them, yes. For us we need to unbung our self-knackered ability to trade. Its the EEA and CU we need to link to, not the EU.
We could have left the EU - the referendum question - and not crippled ourselves. By not leaving things that are not the EU.
The EEA is not quite the EU but it is something very close. It's essentially playing by most of the EU's rules - in exchange for some significant extra freedoms, to be sure - but nonetheless it's signing up to become a fax democracy, as the Norwegians have told us.
They're willing to cough up their protection money and keep quiet. The British Government has decided otherwise. And frankly, after this appalling episode, that's looking like a good call.
The more political distance we can put between the UK and the EU's apparatus, the better.
"protection money". Wow...
Its a trading block. Which we clearly need. With the Department of International Trade advising UK companies they need to set up in the EU to trade there.
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
Your conclusion from recent events is that it's the _UK_ that is whipping up hatred against the _EU_?
and OGH thinks it's a great post.
They're now a tiny minority, but some people still have a long journey to move past 2016, if they ever do.
Of course the EU shitting the bed doesn't change the fact that our choice to leave the EEA, the CU and not to consider how trade works in practice was bloody stupid and masochistic.
I think a period of quiet reflection is needed after this shocking ratner moment for the appalling EU
Reflection is needed for them, yes. For us we need to unbung our self-knackered ability to trade. Its the EEA and CU we need to link to, not the EU.
We could have left the EU - the referendum question - and not crippled ourselves. By not leaving things that are not the EU.
The EEA is not quite the EU but it is something very close. It's essentially playing by most of the EU's rules - in exchange for some significant extra freedoms, to be sure - but nonetheless it's signing up to become a fax democracy, as the Norwegians have told us.
They're willing to cough up their protection money and keep quiet. The British Government has decided otherwise. And frankly, after this appalling episode, that's looking like a good call.
The more political distance we can put between the UK and the EU's apparatus, the better.
"protection money". Wow...
Its a trading block. Which we clearly need. With the Department of International Trade advising UK companies they need to set up in the EU to trade there.
They are being advised to set up a local office (and I’m sure EU companies are getting the same advice for here). It’s really not the same thing.
The American Press have not been particularly pro-British of late but they are more so on our vaccination drive. There's an effusive piece today in the New York Times, according to whom we are leading the world. "With nearly eight million people, or 11.7 percent of the population, having already gotten their first shot, Britain’s pace of vaccination is the fastest of any large nation in the world."
Yesterday feels like the EU’s Black Wednesday. Desperately trying everything to fight reality before backtracking when it became obvious that they couldn’t succeed.
But I suspect the damage to UvdL and the rest of the Commission will probably be a lot less than what happened to the Tories here.
Politicians can get away with more nowadays. You don’t have to look over the channel to see that.
Yesterday feels like the EU’s Black Wednesday. Desperately trying everything to fight reality before backtracking when it became obvious that they couldn’t succeed.
But I suspect the damage to UvdL and the rest of the Commission will probably be a lot less than what happened to the Tories here.
Politicians can get away with more nowadays. You don’t have to look over the channel to see that.
I'm not sure you're right on this. People's lives are at stake, not merely the reputation of the Commission.
The German politicians and media are turning on Ursula von der Leyen:
Thing is, they know from past experiences that she's not very good.
I predict that in 12 months Britain will be vaccinated, significantly Covid-free, largely able to travel globally on vaccine passports whilst the EU will still be languishing behind on vaccinating its citizens at around 50%.
And the Conservatives will hold a 10-point lead over Labour.
Okay, the last one is less sure but if the science is correct: that vaccines are our way out of this then Johnson is going to get his wish. He will look like Churchill.
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
Great post
One of the best pieces of one eyed 'what-aboutism' I have ever read on here. Not one single accurate sentance and a complete failure to understand anything that has happened over the last few months as far as both the pandemic and the self immolation of the European Commission is concerned.
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
Great post
One of the best pieces of one eyed 'what-aboutism' I have ever read on here. Not one single accurate sentance and a complete failure to understand anything that has happened over the last few months as far as both the pandemic and the self immolation of the European Commission is concerned.
It really is a Tour de Force of blind idiocy.
Well thanks for the ad hominem attack. I notice you do not address a single point I made.
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
Great post
One of the best pieces of one eyed 'what-aboutism' I have ever read on here. Not one single accurate sentance and a complete failure to understand anything that has happened over the last few months as far as both the pandemic and the self immolation of the European Commission is concerned.
It really is a Tour de Force of blind idiocy.
Well thanks for the ad hominem attack. I notice you do not address a single point I made.
You made a point?
It was one big fallacious ad hominem whingefest.
How is someone supposed to deal with conspiracy theorist BS about a "black" media?
I think what should concern us most now is not that EU leaders have made mistakes, that is clear enough, but that the UK now lives in a separate information space. The way the UK is processing information is increasingly irrational. The feral British press continues to launch wild and inaccurate claims that are not based on objective facts but the hostility of black propaganda. Playing a zero sum game with the EU is crazy when the Tories have managed to undermine the entire network of alliances we have relied on for decades, both in the EU and beyond. So, by all means create a hullabaloo about vaccines and ignore the staggering 100,000+ UK death toll the total ineptitude of the UK Covid response and of course the increasingly catastrophic economic numbers. Whip up hatred of whoever you choose, but understand you are being manipulated by black propaganda and the price of this may well be fatal to your entire democratic tradition. There is no real hostility in the EU towards the UK, but there is increasingly a mixture of pity and alarm at the unhinged way huge sections of the UK media are determined to use any excuse to trash the UK/EU relationship. It is now a significant working assumption in several EU capitals that the UK will not survive the next decade. Beyond a few whiny articles from the likes of Gordon Brown, I don't see much alarm about the existential threat to your whole country. You might have thought that the Political/PR-Media complex of the likes of Gove, Cummings and - Yes- Johnson have caused sufficient damage. It seems not. Rabble rousing rubbish now seems the default option and I now genuinely fear that black propaganda is going to destroy the country. Trump is gone, but the increasingly unhinged way the UK media shapes the debate is destroying courtesy and even truth and that is a sure-fire way to a very dark place.
Great post
One of the best pieces of one eyed 'what-aboutism' I have ever read on here. Not one single accurate sentance and a complete failure to understand anything that has happened over the last few months as far as both the pandemic and the self immolation of the European Commission is concerned.
It really is a Tour de Force of blind idiocy.
Well thanks for the ad hominem attack. I notice you do not address a single point I made.
You made a point?
It was one big fallacious ad hominem whingefest.
How is someone supposed to deal with conspiracy theorist BS about a "black" media?
I guess you don´t know that "ad hominem" means a personal attack. That lack of knowledge kind of negates the rest of your trolling.
My attack is against the lies sold as truth in the UK information space. You have read the propaganda and swallowed it whole. However the truth is not what the Dailies Mail, Express or Telegraph and the rest of the right-wing polemicists are telling you.
We have a government led not by experts but by PR merchants. Perhaps it is an ad hominem attack to note that incompetence, ignorance and ineptitude laced with arrogance seems to be taken as the job description by too many ministers. It is also fairly accurate and all of this at a time when the political and economic crisis is upon us, and soon there will be an existential constitutional crisis as well.
However all of it really rests on a moral crisis: the bare faced lies of a twisted political/media complex. Unless we call out the lies, then the UK media can certainly push out enough propaganda to instill hatred of the EU. It is obvious that the right wing press has failed to explain that the "deal" now needs to be radically altered unless the UK wishes to see economic damage on a drastic scale. Whipping up hostility to the EU of course ends any chance of a positive relationship and distracts from the responsibility that the Conservative government has for the unfolding Brexit fiasco.
We saw with Trump that no country is immune to lies, and the scale of lies that have been, and are being, told to the British people are on a similar scale.
The US has only been wounded by the years of Trump, but the UK may actually be destroyed. If Ireland is reunited and Scotland secedes, then the UK is over. What then? That kind of national humiliation might easily unleash unapologetic English (or even Scottish) Fascism.
I spent much of my young adulthood fighting the Cold War, and in the end the evil Empire (and that was absolutely what it was) was destroyed because no one was prepared to continue the lies. That moral revolution was immense. Now I see a political establishment in Britain that needs a renewal, if not on the same scale, at least in the same direction.
If the UK doesn´t change direction very soon, then I truly fear for the future. I am not alone in these fears.
So feel free to join in with the far-right propaganda and the shrill anti-European witch hunt. Feel free to add to the echo chamber that says that the lies of the Leave campaign and all the years since were if not exactly true, then at least justified. Feel free to condemn rather than conciliate.
And when you do all of that, then feel free to take the consequences.
Comments
They could be lying (although I'd be surprised).
Lying would mean (among other things) that pharmaceutical companies that might have just breathed a sigh of relief, would redouble or treble their efforts to move production outside the EU.
Also remember that the EU don't need to change the regulation to be telling the truth, because the regulation in question simply requires notification of exports. Whether to block them rests at the national level.
I tried to discuss with them what the EU has done over the last 48 hours and we nearly fell out because they seem to have become obsessed with how bad Boris and Brexit are.
I can only hope that their blindness will soon be cured by the EU's future disgraceful actions.
{recall beacon activated}....In the everlasting glory of the infantry...
Here's to the film that could have been....
Paging Foxy....
There isn't a big enough theatre in the world to represent the number of people Macron has endangered with his glib anti vax lunacy.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13894374/barnier-tells-eu-backdown-covid-vaccine-war/
Low expectation of ‘standstill’ result at May local elections as only 4% of Tories switch"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/27/starmer-labour-failing-to-win-back-tory-voters-england-may-polls
In some sense though (without that benefit of hindsight where they entrusted a commercial department at the commission which achieved a bigger disaster than Chernobyl) there is merit in initially wishing to avoid the messy, divisive, winners and losers mad scramble of COVID nationalism, isn’t there?
But I suspect the damage to UvdL and the rest of the Commission will probably be a lot less than what happened to the Tories here.
So not only is the EU quite possibly at least partly responsible for the shortfall they're complaining about, but they are now making things ten time worse by cheap political posturing to try to deflect criticism of their incompetence.
If the EU has really acknowledged that contracts should be fulfilled, that's something. But what a comment on the mess they have produced - that we feel thankful for something that should be axiomatic.
We could have left the EU - the referendum question - and not crippled ourselves. By not leaving things that are not the EU.
Not once. But three times.
Wow.
As President Biden recently reminded us all, Cicero may be entitled to his own opinion but he is not entitled to his own facts.
*The European Commission has drawn up a vaccine export control mechanism that specifically exempts almost the whole of Europe from its terms, as well as a lengthy list of non-European states including Syria and Libya. But not the UK. Apparently no particular third parties are being targeted, but frankly if you believe that you'll believe anything
*Having spent years insisting that an open border in Ireland is essential, the Commission then proceeded to harden it in a fit of pique (and without bothering to tell either us or the Irish, in contravention of its legal obligations,) just because its mistakes in the vaccine rollout had made it look bad. This tells us that, as was long claimed by the Eurosceptics and Unionists, the Northern Ireland protocol had nothing at all to do with respect for the delicate political situation there and everything to do with the EU exploiting the settlement to extract concessions
*Adding to the strong suspicion that the Commission is trying to scapegoat the UK, we have the unedifying spectacle of the Justice Commissioner suggesting that "maybe the UK wants to start a vaccine war" - expanding its spat with AstraZeneca (which itself appears to have done absolutely nothing wrong) to take in the British Government, which is patently innocent of the accusation
Boris Johnson, many of his MPs and the dreaded newspapers can be accused of a great many things; however, they did not provoke any of the above. The Commission has been petulant, high-handed, capricious and has thrown its much vaunted commitment to playing by the rules in the bin when doing so became inconvenient to it. The member states (apart from Ireland, which has been shat on from orbit once again) have done nothing at all to check its behaviour. And, quite frankly, if these are the actions of a bloc that has "no real hostility" towards the UK then one shudders to think what they might do if they ever became cross with us.
The entire debacle, as infamously described not by the Daily Mail or The Sun but by Die Zeit, has been 'the best advertisement for Brexit.' Even amongst the pro-EU wing of our regular PB commentariat there has been almost universal condemnation of the bloc's behaviour and, in some instances, a reassessment of positions on the wisdom of having left. And who can blame them? One hardly has to be a fanatical member of the Conservative Party, or somehow blind to the appalling death toll that Britain has suffered during the pandemic, to recognise the toxic combination of incompetence and hostility that the EU has displayed.
Asteroid or nuclear war? Perhaps Godzilla?
Northern Irish cessation?
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
As often happens, there’s an underlying assumption that a plurality in England or Wales even cares whether Scotland or NI stay in the Union.
They're willing to cough up their protection money and keep quiet. The British Government has decided otherwise. And frankly, after this appalling episode, that's looking like a good call.
The more political distance we can put between the UK and the EU's apparatus, the better.
Irony because it may not be the UK which doesn't survive the next decade.
But the EU.
* That the EU Commission published their "redacted" contract with much of the redacted content left in the bookmarks. Which repeats the type of mistake that amateurs used to make in redactions at least 12-15 years ago, when you could read a many redacted reports by a staight cut and paste to Word or similar from the "editing" version of Acrobat.
That puts them in breach of their own confidentiality clause. Here, the bits in red are those that have been exposed by cockup (in addition to the prices sent out by mistake the other day):
https://fragdenstaat.de/dokumente/8409-apa_-_astrazeneca/
* I'm seeing the first glimmerings of interesting debates about EU Reform from groups who have previously worshipped the ground it stands on. ie Young professionals / activists who have felt the EU has done much to help their countries move from e.g. old Easter Europe into the 21st century or say ROI citizens and online civil society activists. Debates about Democratic Deficit, how do we control this thing? Still plenty of belief in the fake stuff about AZT, but a glimmer.
(Personally I voted Brexit for sovereignty reasons, and because I think the EU as it was was an irreformable inward-looking pig-in-a-poke headed for the rocks, so I am encouraged by that. One question is how we help that process, it having proved impossible from inside.)
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
Its a trading block. Which we clearly need. With the Department of International Trade advising UK companies they need to set up in the EU to trade there.
They're now a tiny minority, but some people still have a long journey to move past 2016, if they ever do.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/29/world/europe/vaccine-rollout-gives-uk-a-rare-win-in-battling-pandemic.html
High praise
The German politicians and media are turning on Ursula von der Leyen:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/29/german-politicians-turn-careless-ursula-von-der-leyen-vaccine
Thing is, they know from past experiences that she's not very good.
I predict that in 12 months Britain will be vaccinated, significantly Covid-free, largely able to travel globally on vaccine passports whilst the EU will still be languishing behind on vaccinating its citizens at around 50%.
And the Conservatives will hold a 10-point lead over Labour.
Okay, the last one is less sure but if the science is correct: that vaccines are our way out of this then Johnson is going to get his wish. He will look like Churchill.
It really is a Tour de Force of blind idiocy.
It was one big fallacious ad hominem whingefest.
How is someone supposed to deal with conspiracy theorist BS about a "black" media?
My attack is against the lies sold as truth in the UK information space. You have read the propaganda and swallowed it whole. However the truth is not what the Dailies Mail, Express or Telegraph and the rest of the right-wing polemicists are telling you.
We have a government led not by experts but by PR merchants. Perhaps it is an ad hominem attack to note that incompetence, ignorance and ineptitude laced with arrogance seems to be taken as the job description by too many ministers. It is also fairly accurate and all of this at a time when the political and economic crisis is upon us, and soon there will be an existential constitutional crisis as well.
However all of it really rests on a moral crisis: the bare faced lies of a twisted political/media complex. Unless we call out the lies, then the UK media can certainly push out enough propaganda to instill hatred of the EU. It is obvious that the right wing press has failed to explain that the "deal" now needs to be radically altered unless the UK wishes to see economic damage on a drastic scale. Whipping up hostility to the EU of course ends any chance of a positive relationship and distracts from the responsibility that the Conservative government has for the unfolding Brexit fiasco.
We saw with Trump that no country is immune to lies, and the scale of lies that have been, and are being, told to the British people are on a similar scale.
The US has only been wounded by the years of Trump, but the UK may actually be destroyed. If Ireland is reunited and Scotland secedes, then the UK is over. What then? That kind of national humiliation might easily unleash unapologetic English (or even Scottish) Fascism.
I spent much of my young adulthood fighting the Cold War, and in the end the evil Empire (and that was absolutely what it was) was destroyed because no one was prepared to continue the lies. That moral revolution was immense. Now I see a political establishment in Britain that needs a renewal, if not on the same scale, at least in the same direction.
If the UK doesn´t change direction very soon, then I truly fear for the future. I am not alone in these fears.
So feel free to join in with the far-right propaganda and the shrill anti-European witch hunt. Feel free to add to the echo chamber that says that the lies of the Leave campaign and all the years since were if not exactly true, then at least justified. Feel free to condemn rather than conciliate.
And when you do all of that, then feel free to take the consequences.
The writing is on the wall.
You made a personal attack on the population who are in your eyes so stupid they fall for "black" media.
Utterly ignorant bullshit.
As for if Scotland goes independent, I hope it happens and good luck to them. Good neighbours are better than bed tenants, just like with Brexit.