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Trump bows out with the worst Gallup approval ratings ever for any President in 83 years of polling

SystemSystem Posts: 11,018
edited January 2021 in General
Trump bows out with the worst Gallup approval ratings ever for any President in 83 years of polling – politicalbetting.com

Gallup, the pioneer of modern political polling, has produced its final approval ratings on Trump which have him ending his term on a record low for any President. His 41% average approval rating throughout his presidency is 4% lower than for any of his predecessors.

Read the full story here

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Comments

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,112
    It could surely be no other way.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,213
    Will be interesting to see whether Biden can repair the partisan split at all. With so many Republican voters believing he stole the election it will be a tough ask.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    Ended up only a point worse than his second worst rating? lol
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,891
    Don't you mean January 6th not June 6th.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    edited January 2021
    Trump's 34% final rating though is not the lowest for any post WW2 President, surprisingly Truman's final 32% rating in 1953 was even worse. Though Trump has managed to match the 34% approval ratings for George W Bush and Carter in 2009 and 1981, who previously held the joint lowest final approval rating of any President since Truman.


    Trump also had an 88% average approval rating from Republicans, the joint highest average rating from Republican voters for any President from their own party when in office along with Eisenhower

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/328637/last-trump-job-approval-average-record-low.aspx
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,808
    June 6th was an invasion day, just not the Capitol.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,994

    Will be interesting to see whether Biden can repair the partisan split at all. With so many Republican voters believing he stole the election it will be a tough ask.

    It's only a matter of time before one of these Boogaloo vs Black Panther stand offs goes hot then hang the fuck on. "Will be wild!" as a great man once tweeted.
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    Still 1.01 Trump to leave office in 2021.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,892

    Still 1.01 Trump to leave office in 2021.

    Who on Earth is still taking the other side of this?
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,604
    And there was me thinking that Trump was supposed to be a Populist.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,056
    Scott_xP said:
    Who needs full-spectrum dominance when you've got 200,000 flags?
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    Will be interesting to see whether Biden can repair the partisan split at all. With so many Republican voters believing he stole the election it will be a tough ask.

    That is a big roadblock to healing. I'd go as far as to say insurmountable. So hopefully the GOP will find a way to both accept the election and communicate this in a way which works for all but the irredeemably Trumpiest of their voters. But I sense what I've done here is type out one of those "easy to say, less easy to do" things.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,971

    And there was me thinking that Trump was supposed to be a Populist.

    Trump has however shown that you can fool some of the people, all the time.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,327
    No-one's talking about how so many American Liberals goaded Trump to run then, including Obama and John Oliver, whilst others complacently dismissed him?

    He's the right-wing Corbyn that won. If the underlying causes aren't addressed someone like him will emerge again in the future.

    Spoiler: I don't expect the underlying causes to be addressed.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1351468933233201155?s=19
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,056
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    edited January 2021

    Will be interesting to see whether Biden can repair the partisan split at all. With so many Republican voters believing he stole the election it will be a tough ask.

    If he governs from the centre he can perhaps peel off 10-20% of the Republican vote, if however he governs from the liberal left with Harris, Pelosi and Schumer and excludes white males for example from his vision for the USA then the partisan split will be stronger than ever and the GOP will make gains in the 2022 midterms and probably retake the House
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    No-one's talking about how so many American Liberals goaded Trump to run then, including Obama and John Oliver, whilst others complacently dismissed him?

    He's the right-wing Corbyn that won. If the underlying causes aren't addressed someone like him will emerge again in the future.

    Spoiler: I don't expect the underlying causes to be addressed.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1351468933233201155?s=19

    I'm so glad John Oliver is on the other side of the pond. We already have to deal with licence fee payer money going to Nish Kumar.
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    See also: Richard Leonard, Kezia Dugdale, Jim Murphy, Iain Gray, Lord McConnell etc, etc

    I guess Johann Lamont is an honourable exception since she actually stated that SLab was treated like a branch office of the London party.

    https://twitter.com/stvnews/status/1351448912050204674?s=21
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,246
    eek said:

    And there was me thinking that Trump was supposed to be a Populist.

    Trump has however shown that you can fool some of the people, all the time.
    One of the smartest comments GWB made (and its not a wide field) was "you can fool some of the people all of the time and those are the ones you want." Trump took that to heart.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,971

    No-one's talking about how so many American Liberals goaded Trump to run then, including Obama and John Oliver, whilst others complacently dismissed him?

    He's the right-wing Corbyn that won. If the underlying causes aren't addressed someone like him will emerge again in the future.

    Spoiler: I don't expect the underlying causes to be addressed.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1351468933233201155?s=19

    I would also expect the next person to run wouldn't have the flaws or misfortune that has resulted in Trump being a 1 term President.

    Not that I would vote for Trump but I can easily see a Trump lite candidate winning the 2024 Republican Candidacy.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,891

    eristdoof said:

    ydoethur said:

    Changing topic slightly, LBC discussing Smart Motorways. There have been a number of horror smashes on these, and frankly it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone other than the DfT and ministers.

    When they trialled the concept on the M42 there was a switchable hard shoulder - a solid white line which was turned into a live lane when busy. A lot of cameras, signs on regular gantries. And its lit. Reasonably safe.

    And yet the concept has been used and abused to become cheap widening so that as an example the M1 goes from dual 3 plus hard shoulders to dual 4 without shoulders. Had they used the original system (as they have on the M62 in West Yorkshire) and had a switchable hard shoulder then they would be safer.

    The danger is when you have 4 running lanes, few refuges, no lights and no overhead signs. They could make a MASSIVE improvement to safety by painting a solid line back in. Psychologically people will not drive in that lane without the signs saying its open, which only happens when its really busy and when there aren't broken down vehicles...

    I travel daily on the M3 (when I'm not working at home right now), and people just don't understand them. The still seem to think that the 'old' hard shoulder isn't a lane, and so pootle in the 2nd or third land under the speed limit. That causes a great deal more undertaking than would be normal, so increases the risk.
    TBH thats not a smart motorway thing, thats a southerners driving thing. Dahn Sarf people are kind enough to have a "northerners only" lane. For whatever reason Lane 1 - or lanes 1 AND 2 when its D4 - is a no go zone on southern motorways.

    Its a good progressive way to travel - a steady 65 or so passing underneath two busy lanes bunching to your right.
    For which you can be prosecuted if the police are feeling so inclined.

    From the Driving test:

    "Rule 268 of the Highway Code states – do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right."

    This is generally interpreted to be only at low speeds such as in congestion.

    And those are the conditions I describe. Congested traffic lanes speeding up and slowing down. Our lane doing a nice steady speed with comfortable braking gaps. Should plod be around I would expect them to be pulling the lunatics driving inches off each other's bumpers in the other lanes.

    What is the alternative? That I also disobey the law requiring me to drive in the left hand lane unless overtaking? That I sit in lanes 3 and 4 with tailgating wazzocks? Or sit in lane 1 or two and brake every time traffic to my right brakes because they're all tailgating each other?

    This isn't a phenomenon I see much on northern motorways. Southerners don't know how to drive on motorways.
    Legally the last.

    In the late 80s I worked emergency motorway maintenance for South Yorkshire. We were sent out alongside the police to make roads safe whilst they dealt with accidents. The two commonest causes of accidents by miles were people not understanding road conditions - mostly skid pan effects after light rain on hot roads in the summer - and people undertaking just as cars were pulling in and couldn't see them. The law was very clear in those instances. It was the car undertaking that was at fault.
    Out of interest, supposing a car in the fast lane and a car in the slow lane both try to pull into the middle lane at once and collide, whose fault would that be?

    Never happened to me, but I once had a very near miss while driving through Sandwell.
    In my motorbiking days I would always be looking out for this eventuality when changing lanes. It is not just sufficient to know there is a gap now, you need to know that the "gap will be yours" a few seconds later.
    There’s no doubt riding a motorbike is great training for all sorts of road use, knowing that you’re almost always going to lose the argument regardless of how much you’re in the right concentrates the mind wonderfully. Don’t know if it’s still the same but when I did my training for my test in the 90s the term ‘life savers’ was used frequently for using your mirrors, looking behind and reading the road ahead; for once not an exaggerated catchphrase.
    When on my most recent speed awareness course I was told that motorcyclists comprise something like 1% of all road traffic and 25% of all road deaths.

    I am astonished anyone does it.
    The problem is that a high proportion of motorbike riders like the thrill too much, and take way too many risks. That is what is driving that incredible statistic that you're quoting. It is possible to ride in such a way that the risk of having an accident is low. One example is that I would never ride between lanes of moving traffic, but you see that quite often. To me the risk of a car quickly changing lanes, turning into a side road of deciding to overtake was too big a risk. However many riders would just say "f***-that, whats the point of riding a motorbike then?".
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    eekeek Posts: 24,971
    HYUFD said:

    Will be interesting to see whether Biden can repair the partisan split at all. With so many Republican voters believing he stole the election it will be a tough ask.

    If he governs from the centre he can perhaps peel off 10-20% of the Republican vote, if however he governs from the liberal left with Harris, Pelosi and Schumer and excludes white males for example from his vision for the USA then the partisan split will be stronger than ever and the GOP will make gains in the 2022 midterms and probably retake the House
    Even if he governed from the center there would be enough left wing decisions made that the GOP will have plenty of pet topics to focus on in 2022 and 24.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204
    Sandpit said:

    Still 1.01 Trump to leave office in 2021.

    Who on Earth is still taking the other side of this?
    Cultists.

    They genuinely believe something will happen to keep Trump as POTUS after tomorrow.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    eek said:

    No-one's talking about how so many American Liberals goaded Trump to run then, including Obama and John Oliver, whilst others complacently dismissed him?

    He's the right-wing Corbyn that won. If the underlying causes aren't addressed someone like him will emerge again in the future.

    Spoiler: I don't expect the underlying causes to be addressed.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1351468933233201155?s=19

    I would also expect the next person to run wouldn't have the flaws or misfortune that has resulted in Trump being a 1 term President.

    Not that I would vote for Trump but I can easily see a Trump lite candidate winning the 2024 Republican Candidacy.
    And winning, the Trump platform of "America first" definitely appeals to a very large number of Americans, his personality is why he lost in 2020. A coherent "America first" candidate from the GOP in 2024 will win IMO, especially as the Dems get stuck in the mire of wokeism.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,327
    MaxPB said:

    No-one's talking about how so many American Liberals goaded Trump to run then, including Obama and John Oliver, whilst others complacently dismissed him?

    He's the right-wing Corbyn that won. If the underlying causes aren't addressed someone like him will emerge again in the future.

    Spoiler: I don't expect the underlying causes to be addressed.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1351468933233201155?s=19

    I'm so glad John Oliver is on the other side of the pond. We already have to deal with licence fee payer money going to Nish Kumar.
    I'd find dental torture by Kim Jong-un funnier than Nish Kumar.
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    Good riddance to Trump.

    The only bright spark is potentially a bit more peace in the Middle East with countries beginning to recognise Israel officially and sign peace accords (though realistically the ones who have haven't been fighting for decades anyway so how meaningful a change it is I'm not sure, its still a positive).

    Other than that, a dreadful POTUS from start to finish. Second worst after Andrew Jackson in my opinion, though even Jackson had some positives so possibly the worst ever. Definitely worse than Buchanan.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,284
    edited January 2021
    Drakeford is an utter disaster for Wales and labour and getting worse daily

    Even the BMJ attacked him yesterday

    The next Senedd will be interesting but time for labour to be kicked out of Office
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    edited January 2021
    On the Senedd poll the main swing is to the Tories relative to the last election, Plaid were second on seats in the Senedd in 2016 ahead of the Tories.

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1351303022652100614?s=20
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    Serious question. Does anybody have a theory as to why Boris Johnson is so popular with the Far Right? I find this odd. Even odder than us still having colonial territories in far flung places. Johnson's style is not Far Right. His rhetoric isn't Far Right. His policies aren't Far Right. And yet the Far Right rather like him. It's nothing to do with him being the Tory leader. For example, they hated Theresa May. But they are into him. Why?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,327
    @Sandpit FPT - I wonder if SNP run councils and the Scottish Parliament are on a bit of a go-slow with fisheries certification. One video I saw was critiquing Argyll & Bute for them not having anyone on duty on a bank holiday.

    The political temptation for them to do so - or the very least "work to rule", making very little effort - and blaming it all on Westminster, so to reap the rewards in May, must be overwhelming
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    The miracle is not that Trump's ratings are so low, but that a third of the country is prepared to support a President who incited a crowd to storm his own legislature and lynch his own Vice-President.

    It's well above the 3% of Americans who believe they've been abducted by aliens that I use as a benchmark for the lunatic fringe.
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    HYUFD said:
    That is much tighter than many claim

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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited January 2021

    No-one's talking about how so many American Liberals goaded Trump to run then, including Obama and John Oliver, whilst others complacently dismissed him?

    He's the right-wing Corbyn that won. If the underlying causes aren't addressed someone like him will emerge again in the future.

    Spoiler: I don't expect the underlying causes to be addressed.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1351468933233201155?s=19

    Trump like Corbyn in 17 wasn't taken seriously enough by his opponents who could see all the reasons he shouldn't win - but not that he actually could.

    What has happened is the foreseen disaster and thank goodness he is on his way out now. There but for the grace of Ruth Davidson could have gone us too, coming very close to electing our own Trump in Corbyn 2017.

    2019 GE and 2020 Presidential fixed the mistake of the previous election, but everyone needs to learn lessons.

    Though its a shame this didn't find its way into the clips (I think there's a clip of him saying it but I can't find it).
    https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/727604522156228608
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,557
    HYUFD said:

    Trump's 34% final rating though is not the lowest for any post WW2 President, surprisingly Truman's final 32% rating in 1953 was even worse. Though Trump has managed to match the 34% approval ratings for George W Bush and Carter in 2009 and 1981, who previously held the joint lowest final approval rating of any President since Truman.


    Trump also had an 88% average approval rating from Republicans, the joint highest average rating from Republican voters for any President from their own party when in office along with Eisenhower

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/328637/last-trump-job-approval-average-record-low.aspx

    Can't see historians rehabilitating Trump as they did with Truman, somehow.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,557
    Sandpit said:

    Still 1.01 Trump to leave office in 2021.

    Who on Earth is still taking the other side of this?
    MyPillow guy ?
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    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,557

    Scott_xP said:
    Who needs full-spectrum dominance when you've got 200,000 flags?
    Almost enough to trigger @Dura_Ace
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    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited January 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Serious question. Does anybody have a theory as to why Boris Johnson is so popular with the Far Right? I find this odd. Even odder than us still having colonial territories in far flung places. Johnson's style is not Far Right. His rhetoric isn't Far Right. His policies aren't Far Right. And yet the Far Right rather like him. It's nothing to do with him being the Tory leader. For example, they hated Theresa May. But they are into him. Why?

    At the height of his influence, Cummings pushed him into overtly Trumpist rhetoric, which in turn has subsided since Cummings departed. In late 2019 particularly there were regularly high turnouts of the far right at Brexit demonsrations, as well as the new year Brexit celebration.

    https://twitter.com/docrussjackson/status/1235212086755676160


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    SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 597
    edited January 2021
    BigG: you've mentioned in the past that you have COPD. A friend reposted something on Facebook about trying to raise awareness of COPD and suggesting that we each add to our profile on Facebook that we have COPD and leave it up for an hour.

    I'd be interested in your view. To me it seems rather pointless. It could cause distress to a friend if they happened to log on during that period and notice it on my Facebook profile. Also, the fact that people are expected delete it after an hour rather trivialises it, as if it is something that can be easily shaken off.

    If you think otherwise, then I am prepared to reasses my views.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    edited January 2021

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
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    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    The number seeking a referendum within 5 years does not necessarily translate into an independence vote and it does play into Boris declining a vote over the next 3 years
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,904
    Nigelb said:

    MyPillow guy ?

    He has a non-zero risk of having Ratnered his brand...

    Some US stores are refusing to stock his stuff any more
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    DavidL said:

    So, greatest achievements of Donald Trump's Presidency?

    Massive increase in US energy production becoming the largest oil producer in the world and a major exporter of LNG.

    More rapid growth over the first 3 years than Obama ever managed with a huge boom in US jobs (even if it was being driven by an unsustainable deficit).

    For his base securing a conservative majority on the SC for a generation (not that I would regard that as a good thing myself).

    A much more realistic, if chaotic, relationship with China.

    A more realistic if also more disengaged approach to Europe.

    Middle East peace treaty with some of the Arab states and Israel.

    Significant reduction in US military commitments and combat deaths around the world.

    Its not a great list and the list of failures is much, much longer.

    Personally, I will be glad when 12 noon tomorrow confirms it is finally over.

    we might end up learning to miss his foreign policy. Some genuine big gains made, all while acting the silly sod.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,920
    edited January 2021
    I expect this is true of every other vaccine :.

    But Anna Durbin, a professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, was less confident about the levels of protection. In particular, she was skeptical a one-dose vaccine would be enough for older adults, who don’t always mount as strong an immune response as younger people.

    “I think it was a bit of a gamble to go with the single dose, and I think it was very responsible of the company to look at a two-dose regimen and a one-dose regimen,” said Durbin, an investigator in trials of the Pfizer vaccine and another testing a vaccine made by AstraZeneca.


    Please for the love of God let vulnerable people receive 2 doses of vaccine, 1 dose will probably suffice for fit under 50s that don't work amongst the covid +ve
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,112

    Sandpit said:

    Still 1.01 Trump to leave office in 2021.

    Who on Earth is still taking the other side of this?
    Cultists.

    They genuinely believe something will happen to keep Trump as POTUS after tomorrow.
    That requires

    a) divine intervention from

    b) a Trumpist divine being.


    I'm not holding my breath.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,246

    DavidL said:

    So, greatest achievements of Donald Trump's Presidency?

    Massive increase in US energy production becoming the largest oil producer in the world and a major exporter of LNG.

    More rapid growth over the first 3 years than Obama ever managed with a huge boom in US jobs (even if it was being driven by an unsustainable deficit).

    For his base securing a conservative majority on the SC for a generation (not that I would regard that as a good thing myself).

    A much more realistic, if chaotic, relationship with China.

    A more realistic if also more disengaged approach to Europe.

    Middle East peace treaty with some of the Arab states and Israel.

    Significant reduction in US military commitments and combat deaths around the world.

    Its not a great list and the list of failures is much, much longer.

    Personally, I will be glad when 12 noon tomorrow confirms it is finally over.

    we might end up learning to miss his foreign policy. Some genuine big gains made, all while acting the silly sod.
    I think we will see more continuity than many would like to admit. We will get a lot of warm words from Biden but Europe's security will remain Europe's problem, the wind down in the ME and Afghanistan will continue, the US will no longer have aspirations to be the world's policeman, their focus will be on the Pacific not the Atlantic (as it increasingly was under Obama in fairness) and tension with China will increase.
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    Pulpstar said:

    I expect this is true of every other vaccine :.

    But Anna Durbin, a professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, was less confident about the levels of protection. In particular, she was skeptical a one-dose vaccine would be enough for older adults, who don’t always mount as strong an immune response as younger people.

    “I think it was a bit of a gamble to go with the single dose, and I think it was very responsible of the company to look at a two-dose regimen and a one-dose regimen,” said Durbin, an investigator in trials of the Pfizer vaccine and another testing a vaccine made by AstraZeneca.


    Please for the love of God let vulnerable people receive 2 doses of vaccine, 1 dose will probably suffice for fit under 50s that don't work amongst the covid +ve

    I expect there will be hell to pay if the people refused the second dose at 3 weeks don't get it, as promised, after 12 weeks.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,904
    kinabalu said:

    Johnson's style is not Far Right. His rhetoric isn't Far Right. His policies aren't Far Right. And yet the Far Right rather like him.

    He doesn't like wogs (in his writing).

    Brexit was a far right wet dream.

    He appointed a hang 'em and flog 'em Home Secretary, who promises to keep out folks like her parents.

    Why wouldn't they like him?
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,626
    edited January 2021
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    edited January 2021

    DavidL said:

    So, greatest achievements of Donald Trump's Presidency?

    Massive increase in US energy production becoming the largest oil producer in the world and a major exporter of LNG.

    More rapid growth over the first 3 years than Obama ever managed with a huge boom in US jobs (even if it was being driven by an unsustainable deficit).

    For his base securing a conservative majority on the SC for a generation (not that I would regard that as a good thing myself).

    A much more realistic, if chaotic, relationship with China.

    A more realistic if also more disengaged approach to Europe.

    Middle East peace treaty with some of the Arab states and Israel.

    Significant reduction in US military commitments and combat deaths around the world.

    Its not a great list and the list of failures is much, much longer.

    Personally, I will be glad when 12 noon tomorrow confirms it is finally over.

    we might end up learning to miss his foreign policy. Some genuine big gains made, all while acting the silly sod.
    Biden will be a more neoconservative President than Trump was for sure, hence why John Bolton backed Biden over Trump and the anti war Democratic left backed Sanders over Biden.

    Trump withdrew the last US combat forces from Afghanistan in one of his last acts in office, Biden still wants to tackle Al Qaeda there and Biden also voted for the Iraq War unlike Obama (and Trump also said as President the Iraq War was a mistake).

    Biden will certainly take a tougher line on Russia than Trump did too while still being wary of China but in a more diplomatic way.

    George W Bush has broadly welcomed Biden's election as he knows Biden has a foreign policy approach closer to his than Trump's was.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,971
    Pulpstar said:

    I expect this is true of every other vaccine :.

    But Anna Durbin, a professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, was less confident about the levels of protection. In particular, she was skeptical a one-dose vaccine would be enough for older adults, who don’t always mount as strong an immune response as younger people.

    “I think it was a bit of a gamble to go with the single dose, and I think it was very responsible of the company to look at a two-dose regimen and a one-dose regimen,” said Durbin, an investigator in trials of the Pfizer vaccine and another testing a vaccine made by AstraZeneca.


    Please for the love of God let vulnerable people receive 2 doses of vaccine, 1 dose will probably suffice for fit under 50s that don't work amongst the covid +ve

    They will eventually - the issue is as I described last week is vaccinate 10 people twice and 9 have immunity, vaccinate 20 people once and 12 have immunity.

    Faced with that equation and a limited supply of vaccine what do you do short term?
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,284
    edited January 2021
    SandraMc said:

    BigG: you've mentioned in the past that you have COPD. A friend reposted something on Facebook about trying to raise awareness of COPD and suggesting that we each add to our profile on Facebook that we have COPD and leave it up for an hour.

    I'd be interested in your view. To me it seems rather pointless. It could cause distress to a friend if they happened to log on during that period and notice it on your Facebook profile. Also, the fact that you are expected delete it after an hour rather trivialises it, as if it is something that can be easily shaken off.

    If you think otherwise, then I am prepared to reasses my views.

    To be honest I have recently withdrawn from all social media apart from WhatsApp and revealing you have COPD is a personal decision but I have not disclosed it on my social media largely because I am not seeking sympathy. It really is a matter of personal choice

    I agree leaving it on for an hour does seem pointless but I am happy to discuss it openly with anyone if asked
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,557
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    MyPillow guy ?

    He has a non-zero risk of having Ratnered his brand...

    Some US stores are refusing to stock his stuff any more
    #NotOnMyMattress.
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    Pulpstar said:

    I expect this is true of every other vaccine :.

    But Anna Durbin, a professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, was less confident about the levels of protection. In particular, she was skeptical a one-dose vaccine would be enough for older adults, who don’t always mount as strong an immune response as younger people.

    “I think it was a bit of a gamble to go with the single dose, and I think it was very responsible of the company to look at a two-dose regimen and a one-dose regimen,” said Durbin, an investigator in trials of the Pfizer vaccine and another testing a vaccine made by AstraZeneca.


    Please for the love of God let vulnerable people receive 2 doses of vaccine, 1 dose will probably suffice for fit under 50s that don't work amongst the covid +ve

    Why would you think it true of every vaccine? Did you do some virology course where they explained why 2 is a magic number for vaccinations rather than 1,3 or 5? Unless under 50 of course.

    It is great everyone is more interested in science, but some of the takes on it are a bit weird.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,557

    Sandpit said:

    Still 1.01 Trump to leave office in 2021.

    Who on Earth is still taking the other side of this?
    Cultists.

    They genuinely believe something will happen to keep Trump as POTUS after tomorrow.
    That requires

    a) divine intervention from

    b) a Trumpist divine being.


    I'm not holding my breath.
    https://twitter.com/existentialfish/status/1351359384522280960
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,920

    Pulpstar said:

    I expect this is true of every other vaccine :.

    But Anna Durbin, a professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, was less confident about the levels of protection. In particular, she was skeptical a one-dose vaccine would be enough for older adults, who don’t always mount as strong an immune response as younger people.

    “I think it was a bit of a gamble to go with the single dose, and I think it was very responsible of the company to look at a two-dose regimen and a one-dose regimen,” said Durbin, an investigator in trials of the Pfizer vaccine and another testing a vaccine made by AstraZeneca.


    Please for the love of God let vulnerable people receive 2 doses of vaccine, 1 dose will probably suffice for fit under 50s that don't work amongst the covid +ve

    I expect there will be hell to pay if the people refused the second dose at 3 weeks don't get it, as promised, after 12 weeks.
    Raab will be on the TV with that startled in the headlights look he always has when things are going wrong.
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    kinabalu said:

    Serious question. Does anybody have a theory as to why Boris Johnson is so popular with the Far Right? I find this odd. Even odder than us still having colonial territories in far flung places. Johnson's style is not Far Right. His rhetoric isn't Far Right. His policies aren't Far Right. And yet the Far Right rather like him. It's nothing to do with him being the Tory leader. For example, they hated Theresa May. But they are into him. Why?

    Insofar as a far right even exists in Britain, they seem to hate Boris for making them wear face nappies, protecting them from a fake virus, and forcing them to be injected with Bill Gates' semen. That's when they aren't calling him a traitor for signing a deal with the EU or acknowledging the communist Biden as the rightful President of the United States.


    I don't think Boris is popular with the Far Right. Certainly there are plenty of the UKIP/Brexit party/Reform variety who wouldn't vote for him and think he has betrayed them. Some of them stuck with him for the purposes of getting out of the EU but they will not support him any further.

    I think Boris is in trouble come the next election. Politicians always talk about the people 'lending them' their vote and I think it really was the case in 2019.

    Those who voted for him for getting Brexit done will now have no reason to continue to vote for him.
    Those who voted for him to prevent a Corbyn Government will no longer see Labour as the threat it was
    Then there are those who are naturally right of centre, small government types who, like me, either could not vote for him last time because - well he's Boris - or who will not vote for him next time because he has shown himself to be as incompetent and self serving as many claimed.

    I don't necessarily see the Labour vote shooting up much - at least not unless Starmer makes a lot more of an impression than he is at the moment - but I can see, in fact I think we already do see, the Tory vote fragmenting.


  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,557
    Biden picks transgender woman as assistant health secretary
    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/19/biden-rachel-levine-health-secretary-460278
    WASHINGTON — President-elect Joe Biden has tapped Pennsylvania Health Secretary Rachel Levine to be his assistant secretary of health, leaving her poised to become the first openly transgender federal official to be confirmed by the U.S. Senate.

    A pediatrician and former Pennsylvania physician general, Levine was appointed to her current post by Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf in 2017, making her one of the few transgender people serving in elected or appointed positions nationwide. She won past confirmation by the Republican-majority Pennsylvania Senate and has emerged as the public face of the state's response to the coronavirus pandemic....
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    edited January 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Serious question. Does anybody have a theory as to why Boris Johnson is so popular with the Far Right? I find this odd. Even odder than us still having colonial territories in far flung places. Johnson's style is not Far Right. His rhetoric isn't Far Right. His policies aren't Far Right. And yet the Far Right rather like him. It's nothing to do with him being the Tory leader. For example, they hated Theresa May. But they are into him. Why?

    Insofar as a far right even exists in Britain, they seem to hate Boris for making them wear face nappies, protecting them from a fake virus, and forcing them to be injected with Bill Gates' semen. That's when they aren't calling him a traitor for signing a deal with the EU or acknowledging the communist Biden as the rightful President of the United States.
    It does exist. Most certainly it does. And they had a soft spot for "Boris". He got a Tommy Robinson endorsement no less. You're saying they've gone off him now because of how he's prioritized the NHS over the right of an Englishman to live strong & free? I hope you're right. Because the matter was bugging me. The Far Right ought to be hating whoever is our PM. If they aren't, something is going wrong.
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    kinabalu said:

    Serious question. Does anybody have a theory as to why Boris Johnson is so popular with the Far Right? I find this odd. Even odder than us still having colonial territories in far flung places. Johnson's style is not Far Right. His rhetoric isn't Far Right. His policies aren't Far Right. And yet the Far Right rather like him. It's nothing to do with him being the Tory leader. For example, they hated Theresa May. But they are into him. Why?

    Insofar as a far right even exists in Britain, they seem to hate Boris for making them wear face nappies, protecting them from a fake virus, and forcing them to be injected with Bill Gates' semen. That's when they aren't calling him a traitor for signing a deal with the EU or acknowledging the communist Biden as the rightful President of the United States.


    I don't think Boris is popular with the Far Right. Certainly there are plenty of the UKIP/Brexit party/Reform variety who wouldn't vote for him and think he has betrayed them. Some of them stuck with him for the purposes of getting out of the EU but they will not support him any further.

    I think Boris is in trouble come the next election. Politicians always talk about the people 'lending them' their vote and I think it really was the case in 2019.

    Those who voted for him for getting Brexit done will now have no reason to continue to vote for him.
    Those who voted for him to prevent a Corbyn Government will no longer see Labour as the threat it was
    Then there are those who are naturally right of centre, small government types who, like me, either could not vote for him last time because - well he's Boris - or who will not vote for him next time because he has shown himself to be as incompetent and self serving as many claimed.

    I don't necessarily see the Labour vote shooting up much - at least not unless Starmer makes a lot more of an impression than he is at the moment - but I can see, in fact I think we already do see, the Tory vote fragmenting.


    Good post
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    edited January 2021
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
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    Back from my trip out. Sorry @eek, no arrest was made
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,526

    kinabalu said:

    Serious question. Does anybody have a theory as to why Boris Johnson is so popular with the Far Right? I find this odd. Even odder than us still having colonial territories in far flung places. Johnson's style is not Far Right. His rhetoric isn't Far Right. His policies aren't Far Right. And yet the Far Right rather like him. It's nothing to do with him being the Tory leader. For example, they hated Theresa May. But they are into him. Why?

    Insofar as a far right even exists in Britain, they seem to hate Boris for making them wear face nappies, protecting them from a fake virus, and forcing them to be injected with Bill Gates' semen. That's when they aren't calling him a traitor for signing a deal with the EU or acknowledging the communist Biden as the rightful President of the United States.
    Judging by election results the far right hardly exists except for those who believe that far right includes supporting Brexit, wanting national control over borders, holding to some traditional values, voting Conservative, believing that empires including our own are a mixture of better and worse things, that people are to be judged by the content of their character not the colour of their skin, and loving queen and country.

  • Options
    On topic.

    Trump bears probably 70-80% of the responsibility for the divisions in America. I would agree he is without doubt the worst President in history.

    But the Democrats and their supporters also bear at least some responsibility. Although they were no where near as blatant as Trump, never the less they refused to accept that he had won fairly and used every possible tactic to try and undermine his Presidency. In this they were particularly stupid. They should have realised they would not get rid of him before 2020 but in being so partisan and refusing to accept his victory was valid they sowed the seeds for the divisions which, I personally believe, are now insurmountable.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,112

    Good riddance to Trump.

    The only bright spark is potentially a bit more peace in the Middle East with countries beginning to recognise Israel officially and sign peace accords (though realistically the ones who have haven't been fighting for decades anyway so how meaningful a change it is I'm not sure, its still a positive).

    Other than that, a dreadful POTUS from start to finish. Second worst after Andrew Jackson in my opinion, though even Jackson had some positives so possibly the worst ever. Definitely worse than Buchanan.

    Warren Harding waves:

    "I am not fit for this office and should never have been here."

    He was so reassuringly vague in his campaign declarations that he was understood to support both the foes and the backers of U.S. entry into the League of Nations, the hottest issue of the day.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,626
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    Just to analyse the logic of why I say that, let's assume I am a pro indy scot:

    If I am asked that question and I wanted the referendum next week I would still respond as one of the 57% who responded within the next 5 years so I have responded positively even though 5 years is unacceptable

    OK now let us assume I am perverse and decide to not vote with the 57% because of the 5 year criteria and I want a shorter timeframe. That means if a shorter time period is given I will vote for it meaning the figure is now greater than 57%.

    So assumption does not hold under any criteria.
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Serious question. Does anybody have a theory as to why Boris Johnson is so popular with the Far Right? I find this odd. Even odder than us still having colonial territories in far flung places. Johnson's style is not Far Right. His rhetoric isn't Far Right. His policies aren't Far Right. And yet the Far Right rather like him. It's nothing to do with him being the Tory leader. For example, they hated Theresa May. But they are into him. Why?

    Insofar as a far right even exists in Britain, they seem to hate Boris for making them wear face nappies, protecting them from a fake virus, and forcing them to be injected with Bill Gates' semen. That's when they aren't calling him a traitor for signing a deal with the EU or acknowledging the communist Biden as the rightful President of the United States.
    It does exist. Most certainly it does. And they had a soft spot for "Boris". He got a Tommy Robinson endorsement no less. You're saying they've gone off him now because of how he's prioritized the NHS over the right of an Englishman to live strong & free? I hope you're right. Because the matter was bugging me. The Far Right ought to be hating whoever is our PM. If they aren't, something is going wrong.
    Have a look at where Boris stands in the ConHome rankings, or what the top Daily Mail comments on articles about his major policies say, or what Delingpole is Tweeting about him - it's as good a proxy for that strand of opinion as anything else.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,112

    Back from my trip out. Sorry @eek, no arrest was made

    What's that sneaky curtain-twitcher hotline number again?
  • Options

    kinabalu said:

    Serious question. Does anybody have a theory as to why Boris Johnson is so popular with the Far Right? I find this odd. Even odder than us still having colonial territories in far flung places. Johnson's style is not Far Right. His rhetoric isn't Far Right. His policies aren't Far Right. And yet the Far Right rather like him. It's nothing to do with him being the Tory leader. For example, they hated Theresa May. But they are into him. Why?

    Insofar as a far right even exists in Britain, they seem to hate Boris for making them wear face nappies, protecting them from a fake virus, and forcing them to be injected with Bill Gates' semen. That's when they aren't calling him a traitor for signing a deal with the EU or acknowledging the communist Biden as the rightful President of the United States.


    I don't think Boris is popular with the Far Right. Certainly there are plenty of the UKIP/Brexit party/Reform variety who wouldn't vote for him and think he has betrayed them. Some of them stuck with him for the purposes of getting out of the EU but they will not support him any further.

    I think Boris is in trouble come the next election. Politicians always talk about the people 'lending them' their vote and I think it really was the case in 2019.

    Those who voted for him for getting Brexit done will now have no reason to continue to vote for him.
    Those who voted for him to prevent a Corbyn Government will no longer see Labour as the threat it was
    Then there are those who are naturally right of centre, small government types who, like me, either could not vote for him last time because - well he's Boris - or who will not vote for him next time because he has shown himself to be as incompetent and self serving as many claimed.

    I don't necessarily see the Labour vote shooting up much - at least not unless Starmer makes a lot more of an impression than he is at the moment - but I can see, in fact I think we already do see, the Tory vote fragmenting.


    I'd agree with a lot of that. The thing he is popular with on the far right is simply he winds up and annoys lefties, and to an extent Boris and Brexit has made being far right more socially acceptable, moving it from BNP to UKIP or even small fringes within the Tory party.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,626
    edited January 2021
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post. That is all I was responding to. I am not saying your opinion is wrong, but it is just that an opinion. The logic of trying to make it a fact was flawed.

    Opinion - ok
    Fact - not ok.
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    The Lib Dems serve no purpose.

    If you want Tories vote Tory. If you don't want Tories and want Labour then vote Labour. If you want to protest and don't want to vote for a party associated with either the Tories or Labour then vote Green or REFUK (what an acronym!).

    What is the purpose that the Lib Dems serve?
    What if you want sensible economic policies plus internationalism plus an increased focus on the environment plus a firm repudiation of the far right?
    You don't get that from any other party in England. It might not be a mainstream combination at the moment, but there are some people who want that.
    That would be the Global Britain Conservatives, with a PM looking to change the G7 to the G10 and making a big deal of COP22, climate change etc

    Unless by "internationalism" you really mean European Union membership. But even the Lib Dems aren't advocating for that anymore.
    No, I mean instinctive and unabashed support for international institutions. "Let's go WTO" does not qualify for that description, and even though there are some Conservatives who fit that description, the current Conservative culture and membership emphatically does not.
    Similar for the for repudiation of the far right. There's one or two too many Trumpist wankers on the Conservative side of the Commons for anyone nervous about creeping fascism to be comfortable with the direction of the Conservative Party.
    In terms of sensible economic policies, I think we all agree the Conservative instinct is pretty strong, although the radical ideological bent injected by Brexit has dulled that somewhat. And the Conservatives has made great leaps forward in the environment in the last 10-15 years, notwithstanding the odd few dinosaurs still within the party. The Conservatives compare very favourably indeed against, say, the Republicans, but are lagging behind other UK parties in this respect. The highest the Conservatives get on any of the above policy areas is a B+. On others, I'm afraid you're in resit territory.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    edited January 2021
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted indyref2 by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
  • Options
    I'll miss Trump.

    I don't think I'll end up writing betting threads about President Biden featuring in pee pee videos and porn videos.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,557
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    Just to analyse the logic of why I say that, let's assume I am a pro indy scot:

    If I am asked that question and I wanted the referendum next week I would still respond as one of the 57% who responded within the next 5 years so I have responded positively even though 5 years is unacceptable

    OK now let us assume I am perverse and decide to not vote with the 57% because of the 5 year criteria and I want a shorter timeframe. That means if a shorter time period is given I will vote for it meaning the figure is now greater than 57%.

    So assumption does not hold under any criteria.
    If a shorter timeframe was given you would not vote within the 57% but the remainder of the 57% added to the 43% would give a majority for no indyref2 until after 2024
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    So, greatest achievements of Donald Trump's Presidency?

    Massive increase in US energy production becoming the largest oil producer in the world and a major exporter of LNG.

    More rapid growth over the first 3 years than Obama ever managed with a huge boom in US jobs (even if it was being driven by an unsustainable deficit).

    For his base securing a conservative majority on the SC for a generation (not that I would regard that as a good thing myself).

    A much more realistic, if chaotic, relationship with China.

    A more realistic if also more disengaged approach to Europe.

    Middle East peace treaty with some of the Arab states and Israel.

    Significant reduction in US military commitments and combat deaths around the world.

    Its not a great list and the list of failures is much, much longer.

    Personally, I will be glad when 12 noon tomorrow confirms it is finally over.

    we might end up learning to miss his foreign policy. Some genuine big gains made, all while acting the silly sod.
    Biden will be a more neoconservative President than Trump was for sure, hence why John Bolton backed Biden over Trump and the anti war Democratic left backed Sanders over Biden.

    Trump withdrew the last US combat forces from Afghanistan in one of his last acts in office, Biden still wants to tackle Al Qaeda there and Biden also voted for the Iraq War unlike Obama (and Trump also said as President the Iraq War was a mistake).

    Biden will certainly take a tougher line on Russia than Trump did too while still being wary of China but in a more diplomatic way.

    George W Bush has broadly welcomed Biden's election as he knows Biden has a foreign policy approach closer to his than Trump's was.
    The neocons hate Trump because he called their foreign wars out for what they were, namely stupid. It's a lot of the reason driving opposition from the like of Bush II, rather than personal disgust at Trump's behaviour.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,892

    @Sandpit FPT - I wonder if SNP run councils and the Scottish Parliament are on a bit of a go-slow with fisheries certification. One video I saw was critiquing Argyll & Bute for them not having anyone on duty on a bank holiday.

    The political temptation for them to do so - or the very least "work to rule", making very little effort - and blaming it all on Westminster, so to reap the rewards in May, must be overwhelming

    There’s definitely reasons why only the Scottish fishermen seem to have a problem with the new arrangement.

    Their EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association’, and the forthcoming Scottish government elections are obviously completely irrelevant to their predicament.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    edited January 2021
    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    So, greatest achievements of Donald Trump's Presidency?

    Massive increase in US energy production becoming the largest oil producer in the world and a major exporter of LNG.

    More rapid growth over the first 3 years than Obama ever managed with a huge boom in US jobs (even if it was being driven by an unsustainable deficit).

    For his base securing a conservative majority on the SC for a generation (not that I would regard that as a good thing myself).

    A much more realistic, if chaotic, relationship with China.

    A more realistic if also more disengaged approach to Europe.

    Middle East peace treaty with some of the Arab states and Israel.

    Significant reduction in US military commitments and combat deaths around the world.

    Its not a great list and the list of failures is much, much longer.

    Personally, I will be glad when 12 noon tomorrow confirms it is finally over.

    we might end up learning to miss his foreign policy. Some genuine big gains made, all while acting the silly sod.
    Biden will be a more neoconservative President than Trump was for sure, hence why John Bolton backed Biden over Trump and the anti war Democratic left backed Sanders over Biden.

    Trump withdrew the last US combat forces from Afghanistan in one of his last acts in office, Biden still wants to tackle Al Qaeda there and Biden also voted for the Iraq War unlike Obama (and Trump also said as President the Iraq War was a mistake).

    Biden will certainly take a tougher line on Russia than Trump did too while still being wary of China but in a more diplomatic way.

    George W Bush has broadly welcomed Biden's election as he knows Biden has a foreign policy approach closer to his than Trump's was.
    The neocons hate Trump because he called their foreign wars out for what they were, namely stupid. It's a lot of the reason driving opposition from the like of Bush II, rather than personal disgust at Trump's behaviour.
    Hence also why George Galloway preferred Trump to Hillary and Biden, even though he preferred Sanders best of all
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    On topic.

    Trump bears probably 70-80% of the responsibility for the divisions in America. I would agree he is without doubt the worst President in history.

    But the Democrats and their supporters also bear at least some responsibility. Although they were no where near as blatant as Trump, never the less they refused to accept that he had won fairly and used every possible tactic to try and undermine his Presidency. In this they were particularly stupid. They should have realised they would not get rid of him before 2020 but in being so partisan and refusing to accept his victory was valid they sowed the seeds for the divisions which, I personally believe, are now insurmountable.

    Quick question for you Richard and you are one of the few posters on here that recognise that the Democrats bear a lot of the responsibility for the division in the US. Why exactly is he the worst President? Do you think the US was a land of milk and honey before, and everyone was happy? My view has always been that Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

    I'm not having a go and it's maybe unfair to ask you specifically but people hear the word "Trump" and automatically say "he's so bad". But why exactly is he so bad? What has he done exactly that was so uniquely awful in the annals of US history?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Pulpstar said:

    I expect this is true of every other vaccine :.

    But Anna Durbin, a professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, was less confident about the levels of protection. In particular, she was skeptical a one-dose vaccine would be enough for older adults, who don’t always mount as strong an immune response as younger people.

    “I think it was a bit of a gamble to go with the single dose, and I think it was very responsible of the company to look at a two-dose regimen and a one-dose regimen,” said Durbin, an investigator in trials of the Pfizer vaccine and another testing a vaccine made by AstraZeneca.


    Please for the love of God let vulnerable people receive 2 doses of vaccine, 1 dose will probably suffice for fit under 50s that don't work amongst the covid +ve

    Everyone will get two doses.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,904
    Culture Minister confirms she hasn't a fucking clue how her industry works

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1351520808586407942

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1351521238557073408

    Is that a requirement to be in BoZo's cabinet?
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,626
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted one by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
    You are not getting this are you. There is nothing wrong in what you say here, but you made a statement earlier as a fact. It was not a fact it was an opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

    I was pointing out why it was an opinion and not a fact by applying logic to it to demonstrate why.

    We have been here before. You seem to think that logic is some esoterical topic restricted to mathematicians. It isn't. They may be better at it, but it applies to everyday life as well.
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    kinabalu said:

    Serious question. Does anybody have a theory as to why Boris Johnson is so popular with the Far Right? I find this odd. Even odder than us still having colonial territories in far flung places. Johnson's style is not Far Right. His rhetoric isn't Far Right. His policies aren't Far Right. And yet the Far Right rather like him. It's nothing to do with him being the Tory leader. For example, they hated Theresa May. But they are into him. Why?

    Insofar as a far right even exists in Britain, they seem to hate Boris for making them wear face nappies, protecting them from a fake virus, and forcing them to be injected with Bill Gates' semen. That's when they aren't calling him a traitor for signing a deal with the EU or acknowledging the communist Biden as the rightful President of the United States.


    I don't think Boris is popular with the Far Right. Certainly there are plenty of the UKIP/Brexit party/Reform variety who wouldn't vote for him and think he has betrayed them. Some of them stuck with him for the purposes of getting out of the EU but they will not support him any further.

    I think Boris is in trouble come the next election. Politicians always talk about the people 'lending them' their vote and I think it really was the case in 2019.

    Those who voted for him for getting Brexit done will now have no reason to continue to vote for him.
    Those who voted for him to prevent a Corbyn Government will no longer see Labour as the threat it was
    Then there are those who are naturally right of centre, small government types who, like me, either could not vote for him last time because - well he's Boris - or who will not vote for him next time because he has shown himself to be as incompetent and self serving as many claimed.

    I don't necessarily see the Labour vote shooting up much - at least not unless Starmer makes a lot more of an impression than he is at the moment - but I can see, in fact I think we already do see, the Tory vote fragmenting.


    He certainly was a year and a half ago. His promises on Brexit were manna to the far right, and his... let's call them dog whistles... went down well too.
    I think the weird far-right/libertarian axis has since found his lockdown policies to be less than their cup of tea.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,904
    MaxPB said:

    Everyone will get two doses.

    Except the ones who die inbetween
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    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    The number seeking a referendum within 5 years does not necessarily translate into an independence vote and it does play into Boris declining a vote over the next 3 years
    Who said it did?

    I'm really looking forward to how the parties are going to frame their 'regardless of what you want, we are not going to let you decide whether you want another ref' positions in May.
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    Sandpit said:

    Still 1.01 Trump to leave office in 2021.

    Who on Earth is still taking the other side of this?
    Some Trump fans may still believe their man won. Some will be backers at larger prices cashing out. Some might be automatic trading by bots, whose owners have left them running.

    At the moment, Betfair shows you can have £600,000 on Betfair to leave in 2021 but at 1.01 that represents a liability of only £6,000.
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    Dominic Raab talking about bellends, in the House of Commons.

    Does the man have no sense of decorum?

    https://twitter.com/richard_kaputt/status/1351496622409191424
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    Serious question. Does anybody have a theory as to why Boris Johnson is so popular with the Far Right? I find this odd. Even odder than us still having colonial territories in far flung places. Johnson's style is not Far Right. His rhetoric isn't Far Right. His policies aren't Far Right. And yet the Far Right rather like him. It's nothing to do with him being the Tory leader. For example, they hated Theresa May. But they are into him. Why?

    At the height of his influence, Cummings pushed him into overtly Trumpist rhetoric, which in turn has subsided since Cummings departed. In late 2019 particularly there were regularly high turnouts of the far right at Brexit demonsrations, as well as the new year Brexit celebration.

    https://twitter.com/docrussjackson/status/1235212086755676160
    Yes, that fits. It did peak in late 19 early 20. I guess it demonstrates again the political acuity of Johnson & Cummings. Normally becoming a magnet for the Far Right would drive voters away but they managed to avoid this. Landslide GE win.

    Johnson's timing is perfect too. As @BluestBlue points out, since the pandemic he has haemorrhaged Far Right support (due to Lockdown and masks etc) but of course he doesn't need it now.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted one by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
    You are not getting this are you. There is nothing wrong in what you say here, but you made a statement earlier as a fact. It was not a fact it was an opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

    I was pointing out why it was an opinion and not a fact by applying logic to it to demonstrate why.

    We have been here before. You seem to think that logic is some esoterical topic restricted to mathematicians. It isn't. They may be better at it, but it applies to everyday life as well.
    The only logic that matters under our constitution is the supremacy of Crown in Parliament. Boris has a majority in Parliament of 80 so what Boris says goes, there will be no indyref2 while he remains UK PM with an overall Tory majority.

    What the polling shows is only relevant to how much resistance he will face when he refuses to grant the SNP any indyref2 as he will, 43% of Scots not wanting an indyref2 for at least 10 years and 57% only wanting one within 5 years ie after the next general election shows Boris can easily get away with refusing one until 2024 as he will with little resistance bar the SNP hardcore.

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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,600
    Regarding the thread, the Gallup 34% "approval" figure taken alone flatters Trump, even though it's a low for Gallup.

    He polarises opinion like any other president. The proportion who don't hold an opinion of him, one way or another, is very low. That means that the "disapproval" figure for Trump is even higher than you would normally expect based on the approval figure alone. Disapproval for Trump with Gallup is 62%.

    A lot of people who didn't previously seem to have an opinion of Trump seem to have come off the fence post the Capitol riots. So, taking the 538 averages, while Trump's current average approval of 38.3% is not quite the worst of his presidency (36.5% in Dec 2017), Trump's current disapproval average of 58.1% is the highest of his presidency (the next worst is 57.4% in 2017).

    Trump's current disapproval rating is the worst of any president at the point of leaving within 4 years. His approval rating is marginally better than Carter's, but then Carter's final rating as president came just too early to reflect the release of the Iranian hostages on the eve of Reagan's inauguration.

    It should also be noted that Trump's average approval ratings are being substantially boosted by Rasmussen, who currently have him at 48%. That's 3% up since their last pre Capitol insurrection poll at the end of December, and only 1% down since their poll of 4th-6th Jan, in which all or almost all sampling would have ended by the time of the insurrection in mid afternoon. With every other firm, Trump's ratings have gone through the floor since the events of 6th Jan. Rasmussen's failure to detect a shift of opinion is simply not credible in the circumstances.
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