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Trump bows out with the worst Gallup approval ratings ever for any President in 83 years of polling

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  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,226
    edited January 2021
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic.

    Trump bears probably 70-80% of the responsibility for the divisions in America. I would agree he is without doubt the worst President in history.

    But the Democrats and their supporters also bear at least some responsibility. Although they were no where near as blatant as Trump, never the less they refused to accept that he had won fairly and used every possible tactic to try and undermine his Presidency. In this they were particularly stupid. They should have realised they would not get rid of him before 2020 but in being so partisan and refusing to accept his victory was valid they sowed the seeds for the divisions which, I personally believe, are now insurmountable.

    Quick question for you Richard and you are one of the few posters on here that recognise that the Democrats bear a lot of the responsibility for the division in the US. Why exactly is he the worst President? Do you think the US was a land of milk and honey before, and everyone was happy? My view has always been that Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

    I'm not having a go and it's maybe unfair to ask you specifically but people hear the word "Trump" and automatically say "he's so bad". But why exactly is he so bad? What has he done exactly that was so uniquely awful in the annals of US history?
    I think, for me, it`s primarily a matter of suitability for the office. The fact that he was unqualified and supremely unsuitable was obvious before he became president. And he hasn`t disappointed. He`s trashed the country`s reputation abroad - which it will take quite a while to recover from - partly because he is an easy subject to ridicule because he is inherently ridiculous.

    Did you listen to James Comey on Sophie Ridge on Sunday?
    The Trump Presidency

    It's a cake made of awful policies, awful implementation of the awful policies and an icing made out of incompetent corruption in awful implantation of the awful policies. With layers of supporters who are substantially fascist and racist. The whole doused in insurrectionist and violent rhetoric, provoking and encouraging repeated criminality.

    The cherry on the cake is the stupid Twitter addiction.
    That's a good one, Malmesbury. Like that a lot. And it's as close to 100% objective as anything can ever be. Important not to go looking for "balance" on Trump. There isn't any.
    Surely awful policies awfully implemented is better than awful policies efficiently implemented ?
    Unless the awful implementation was itself an awful thing to witness. Like when the electric chair malfunctions and they have to start again.
  • Options
    GaussianGaussian Posts: 793

    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Not good numbers on vaccination front...England only 171k yesterday (I wonder if like deaths, we are seeing a weekend effect in reporting, but still, not enough).

    Absolutely dire numbers. What has gone wrong?
    If the numbers seem weird it's probably something to do with the way they're being reported.
    Is it possible that demand under 80 is not as overwhelming as the government thought?

    Which leaves Johnson with a bit of a problem....
    What when letters for under 80s only went out yesterday.....
    I guess there could be a gap between the 80s being done and the new cohort being invited. A sort of invite-lag?
    You may be right, but I hope not. That would not be good planning.
    It doesn't really matter that much anyway. Read the news. The schools are not going back this side of Easter. The pubs won't be opening until the summer at the earliest.

    You are not getting your freedoms back for another five months at least. And even then we're talking Tier 2.

    For a while.
    ***PREDICTION POST***
    No UK pubs will open before 21 June, says Contrarian.

    I suspect this post won't age well.
    Interesting when do you think,

    The schools will be open in the UK full time and

    The pubs will revert to normal licensing hours everywhere in the UK with no restrictions.

    Lets see who is nearest the effing bull

    No chance of pubs before May bank holiday (which off top my head is 5th May). Might even be the next bank holiday at end of May.

    I think you are more likely to be right with late June than any predictions before May.
    Quite. Of course there's going to be an almighty argument about this in the tory parliamentary party in the spring. A massive argument.

    Because the government has said the vaccines are the answer.

    If the vaccines are the answer then we don;t need lockdown when they are rolled out,

    And if we still have lockdown when they are rolled out then the government must be fibbing.
    A rapidly brewing problem is the socialising that will take place by those who are vaccinated (not in closed pubs obviously - but at people's houses).

    As Chris Snowdon pointed out, stopping people who have had the vaccine from going back to normal life indicates you do not have confidence in the solution you are offering.

    Unless its not a solution and you are fibbing. Or it is a solution and you have another agenda.
    I think the answer is that there is a great deal of hope that it is the solution and some trial data that indicates it probably will be but still plenty of unknowns.
    The more immediate answer is that we know the vaccines take two weeks to kick in and that a single shot only provides partial protection. I think most people would understand that if they were actually told.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    edited January 2021
    Murder Tuesday with 1,610 deaths announced today.

    33,355 new infections.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    So, the government now admits that it deliberately and for purely abstract reasons decided to severely damage the UK music and culture industry, a big sector for the UK and important to our tourist industry. Here's the 'Culture Minister' (by which they seem to mean the 'Wrecking Culture Minister') explaining why:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1351513796213399553

    They are literally insane, aren't they? Was there a single referendum voter in the entire UK who objected to UK and EU musicians being able to put on concert tours in each other's countries without a load of ludicrous paperwork and expensive carnets?

    Well, it's a spoke in the radiohead wheel.
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,726

    Murder Tuesday with 1,610 deaths announced today.

    33,355 new infections.

    New infections are coming down fast.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted one by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
    You are not getting this are you. There is nothing wrong in what you say here, but you made a statement earlier as a fact. It was not a fact it was an opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

    I was pointing out why it was an opinion and not a fact by applying logic to it to demonstrate why.

    We have been here before. You seem to think that logic is some esoterical topic restricted to mathematicians. It isn't. They may be better at it, but it applies to everyday life as well.
    The only logic that matters under our constitution is the supremacy of Crown in Parliament. Boris has a majority in Parliament of 80 so what Boris says goes, there will be no indyref2 while he remains UK PM with an overall Tory majority.

    What the polling shows is only relevant to how much resistance he will face when he refuses to grant the SNP any indyref2 as he will, 43% of Scots not wanting an indyref2 for at least 10 years and 57% only wanting one within 5 years ie after the next general election shows Boris can easily get away with refusing one until 2024 as he will with little resistance bar the SNP hardcore.

    HYUFD sigh:

    Let's breakdown your post:

    1st sentence - why you use the word logic here I don't know as there is no logical construct there whatsoever (not that it is needed). It looks like a statement of fact (I assume it is correct as I don't know have that knowledge)

    2nd sentence - is a fact followed by an opinion.

    2nd para - is an opinion

    Do you know what logic is? Even if not trained in it most people grasp the basics as a matter of routine eg:

    A implies B does not mean B implies A, etc.
    I am not interested in replying to yet another of your extremely tedious and boring logic posts.

    As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway
    But HYUFD you make some brilliant posts, you are full of facts that many do not know and repost some excellent twitter post, particularly on opinion polls.

    Yet you don't seem to get why some of your post drive us up the wall and it is not because of differences in political opinion. So for instance I don't actually disagree with you on your recent post; to be honest I don't have an opinion, so I am not arguing with you on your opinion.

    I think you opinion is a perfectly valid one and one that I don't disagree with you on.

    Has it never crossed you mind why people do get annoyed then with some of your posts? It is because you state opinion as fact, then when it is demonstrated that the fact is an opinion, you give another unrelated opinion to the one in question.

    Even your last post does it:

    'As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway'.

    a) It has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue I raised initially
    b) I agree with the point you are making in this sentence.

    I did not say '57% of Scots as a matter of fact are happy with no indyref2 until after 2024.'

    I said 'Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024' which is a correct factual conclusion from the poll answers given.

    It does not bother me what anyone thinks of my posts, if they dislike them so intently move on and respond to someone else's
    You are the most talked about poster - a celeb in other words - and I'm betting that's fine by you. You like being a celeb. You like not being able to do normal posts like normal people without being noticed and bothered and pestered. You remind me of Rod Stewart in this regard.
    Maggie may be the greatest politician to have ever lived, with BJ a close second.
    Her BJ was a close second to whose, exactly?
    My wife and I went for a romantic weekend to a hotel years back.

    Very nice, double bath and extra large shower etc etc

    They had to ruin in by saying Maggie and Dennis used to stay in that room...........

    How to ruin the mood :smiley:
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,685
    "Lord Sumption: the monstering of a lockdown sceptic
    He's been the victim of a bad-faith effort to demonise criticism of government policy.
    Luke Gittos"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/19/lord-sumption-the-monstering-of-a-lockdown-sceptic/
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,726
    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    I don't like Trump. I do like Obama. Trump was a better President than Obama.

    Omnium.
    A dagger to the heart, that post.
  • Options
    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Murder Tuesday with 1,610 deaths announced today.

    33,355 new infections.

    What do you mean by Murder Tuesday?
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,726
    edited January 2021

    Stocky said:

    Murder Tuesday with 1,610 deaths announced today.

    33,355 new infections.

    New infections are coming down fast.
    Lockdowns work.
    Yep, of course. They must do. Logically.

    I`d be effing furious if they didn`t.
  • Options
    IshmaelZ said:

    So, the government now admits that it deliberately and for purely abstract reasons decided to severely damage the UK music and culture industry, a big sector for the UK and important to our tourist industry. Here's the 'Culture Minister' (by which they seem to mean the 'Wrecking Culture Minister') explaining why:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1351513796213399553

    They are literally insane, aren't they? Was there a single referendum voter in the entire UK who objected to UK and EU musicians being able to put on concert tours in each other's countries without a load of ludicrous paperwork and expensive carnets?

    Well, it's a spoke in the radiohead wheel.
    I think what probably happened is that the EU offered to allow UK musicians to tour, but wasn't prepared to limit those rules to just musicians but as part of a broader and less acceptable (to the Gov't) package, probably on FoM generally
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442
    Brom said:

    Murder Tuesday with 1,610 deaths announced today.

    33,355 new infections.

    What do you mean by Murder Tuesday?
    Backfilling data that isn't reported on the weekend - so that numbers are always higher as reported on Tuesday/Wednesday.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,204
    Brom said:

    Murder Tuesday with 1,610 deaths announced today.

    33,355 new infections.

    What do you mean by Murder Tuesday?
    Because of lags in reporting data over weekends, very often sunday/monday have fewer reported deaths, which then catch up on Tuesday (and Wed to some extent) giving the impression of a jump in deaths. Compare the date of death charts with date of reporting (on https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/). Date of reporting is lumpier data than date of death.
  • Options
    Brom said:

    Murder Tuesday with 1,610 deaths announced today.

    33,355 new infections.

    What do you mean by Murder Tuesday?
    A piss take of the Daily Mail and other journos who didn't and still haven't realised that there's a weekend/bank holiday effect on reporting figures.

    They'd see a decrease Saturday/Sunday/Monday then report Tuesday's catch up figures as a massive increase.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,226

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted one by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
    You are not getting this are you. There is nothing wrong in what you say here, but you made a statement earlier as a fact. It was not a fact it was an opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

    I was pointing out why it was an opinion and not a fact by applying logic to it to demonstrate why.

    We have been here before. You seem to think that logic is some esoterical topic restricted to mathematicians. It isn't. They may be better at it, but it applies to everyday life as well.
    The only logic that matters under our constitution is the supremacy of Crown in Parliament. Boris has a majority in Parliament of 80 so what Boris says goes, there will be no indyref2 while he remains UK PM with an overall Tory majority.

    What the polling shows is only relevant to how much resistance he will face when he refuses to grant the SNP any indyref2 as he will, 43% of Scots not wanting an indyref2 for at least 10 years and 57% only wanting one within 5 years ie after the next general election shows Boris can easily get away with refusing one until 2024 as he will with little resistance bar the SNP hardcore.

    HYUFD sigh:

    Let's breakdown your post:

    1st sentence - why you use the word logic here I don't know as there is no logical construct there whatsoever (not that it is needed). It looks like a statement of fact (I assume it is correct as I don't know have that knowledge)

    2nd sentence - is a fact followed by an opinion.

    2nd para - is an opinion

    Do you know what logic is? Even if not trained in it most people grasp the basics as a matter of routine eg:

    A implies B does not mean B implies A, etc.
    I am not interested in replying to yet another of your extremely tedious and boring logic posts.

    As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway
    But HYUFD you make some brilliant posts, you are full of facts that many do not know and repost some excellent twitter post, particularly on opinion polls.

    Yet you don't seem to get why some of your post drive us up the wall and it is not because of differences in political opinion. So for instance I don't actually disagree with you on your recent post; to be honest I don't have an opinion, so I am not arguing with you on your opinion.

    I think you opinion is a perfectly valid one and one that I don't disagree with you on.

    Has it never crossed you mind why people do get annoyed then with some of your posts? It is because you state opinion as fact, then when it is demonstrated that the fact is an opinion, you give another unrelated opinion to the one in question.

    Even your last post does it:

    'As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway'.

    a) It has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue I raised initially
    b) I agree with the point you are making in this sentence.

    I did not say '57% of Scots as a matter of fact are happy with no indyref2 until after 2024.'

    I said 'Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024' which is a correct factual conclusion from the poll answers given.

    It does not bother me what anyone thinks of my posts, if they dislike them so intently move on and respond to someone else's
    You are the most talked about poster - a celeb in other words - and I'm betting that's fine by you. You like being a celeb. You like not being able to do normal posts like normal people without being noticed and bothered and pestered. You remind me of Rod Stewart in this regard.
    Do ya think he’s Scexy?
    :blush: - No way!

    If that's his game, trying to lure me in with that, I can assure you he is failing. He is failing.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,986
    IshmaelZ said:

    So, the government now admits that it deliberately and for purely abstract reasons decided to severely damage the UK music and culture industry, a big sector for the UK and important to our tourist industry. Here's the 'Culture Minister' (by which they seem to mean the 'Wrecking Culture Minister') explaining why:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1351513796213399553

    They are literally insane, aren't they? Was there a single referendum voter in the entire UK who objected to UK and EU musicians being able to put on concert tours in each other's countries without a load of ludicrous paperwork and expensive carnets?

    Well, it's a spoke in the radiohead wheel.
    Tough on Euro Techno, tough on the causes of...
    We have our own fine traditional native Drill scene. We don't want any of that foreign noise over here.
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,726
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted one by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
    You are not getting this are you. There is nothing wrong in what you say here, but you made a statement earlier as a fact. It was not a fact it was an opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

    I was pointing out why it was an opinion and not a fact by applying logic to it to demonstrate why.

    We have been here before. You seem to think that logic is some esoterical topic restricted to mathematicians. It isn't. They may be better at it, but it applies to everyday life as well.
    The only logic that matters under our constitution is the supremacy of Crown in Parliament. Boris has a majority in Parliament of 80 so what Boris says goes, there will be no indyref2 while he remains UK PM with an overall Tory majority.

    What the polling shows is only relevant to how much resistance he will face when he refuses to grant the SNP any indyref2 as he will, 43% of Scots not wanting an indyref2 for at least 10 years and 57% only wanting one within 5 years ie after the next general election shows Boris can easily get away with refusing one until 2024 as he will with little resistance bar the SNP hardcore.

    HYUFD sigh:

    Let's breakdown your post:

    1st sentence - why you use the word logic here I don't know as there is no logical construct there whatsoever (not that it is needed). It looks like a statement of fact (I assume it is correct as I don't know have that knowledge)

    2nd sentence - is a fact followed by an opinion.

    2nd para - is an opinion

    Do you know what logic is? Even if not trained in it most people grasp the basics as a matter of routine eg:

    A implies B does not mean B implies A, etc.
    I am not interested in replying to yet another of your extremely tedious and boring logic posts.

    As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway
    But HYUFD you make some brilliant posts, you are full of facts that many do not know and repost some excellent twitter post, particularly on opinion polls.

    Yet you don't seem to get why some of your post drive us up the wall and it is not because of differences in political opinion. So for instance I don't actually disagree with you on your recent post; to be honest I don't have an opinion, so I am not arguing with you on your opinion.

    I think you opinion is a perfectly valid one and one that I don't disagree with you on.

    Has it never crossed you mind why people do get annoyed then with some of your posts? It is because you state opinion as fact, then when it is demonstrated that the fact is an opinion, you give another unrelated opinion to the one in question.

    Even your last post does it:

    'As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway'.

    a) It has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue I raised initially
    b) I agree with the point you are making in this sentence.

    I did not say '57% of Scots as a matter of fact are happy with no indyref2 until after 2024.'

    I said 'Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024' which is a correct factual conclusion from the poll answers given.

    It does not bother me what anyone thinks of my posts, if they dislike them so intently move on and respond to someone else's
    You are the most talked about poster - a celeb in other words - and I'm betting that's fine by you. You like being a celeb. You like not being able to do normal posts like normal people without being noticed and bothered and pestered. You remind me of Rod Stewart in this regard.
    Do ya think he’s Scexy?
    :blush: - No way!

    If that's his game, trying to lure me in with that, I can assure you he is failing. He is failing.
    So you say
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,726
    Floater said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted one by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
    You are not getting this are you. There is nothing wrong in what you say here, but you made a statement earlier as a fact. It was not a fact it was an opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

    I was pointing out why it was an opinion and not a fact by applying logic to it to demonstrate why.

    We have been here before. You seem to think that logic is some esoterical topic restricted to mathematicians. It isn't. They may be better at it, but it applies to everyday life as well.
    The only logic that matters under our constitution is the supremacy of Crown in Parliament. Boris has a majority in Parliament of 80 so what Boris says goes, there will be no indyref2 while he remains UK PM with an overall Tory majority.

    What the polling shows is only relevant to how much resistance he will face when he refuses to grant the SNP any indyref2 as he will, 43% of Scots not wanting an indyref2 for at least 10 years and 57% only wanting one within 5 years ie after the next general election shows Boris can easily get away with refusing one until 2024 as he will with little resistance bar the SNP hardcore.

    HYUFD sigh:

    Let's breakdown your post:

    1st sentence - why you use the word logic here I don't know as there is no logical construct there whatsoever (not that it is needed). It looks like a statement of fact (I assume it is correct as I don't know have that knowledge)

    2nd sentence - is a fact followed by an opinion.

    2nd para - is an opinion

    Do you know what logic is? Even if not trained in it most people grasp the basics as a matter of routine eg:

    A implies B does not mean B implies A, etc.
    I am not interested in replying to yet another of your extremely tedious and boring logic posts.

    As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway
    But HYUFD you make some brilliant posts, you are full of facts that many do not know and repost some excellent twitter post, particularly on opinion polls.

    Yet you don't seem to get why some of your post drive us up the wall and it is not because of differences in political opinion. So for instance I don't actually disagree with you on your recent post; to be honest I don't have an opinion, so I am not arguing with you on your opinion.

    I think you opinion is a perfectly valid one and one that I don't disagree with you on.

    Has it never crossed you mind why people do get annoyed then with some of your posts? It is because you state opinion as fact, then when it is demonstrated that the fact is an opinion, you give another unrelated opinion to the one in question.

    Even your last post does it:

    'As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway'.

    a) It has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue I raised initially
    b) I agree with the point you are making in this sentence.

    I did not say '57% of Scots as a matter of fact are happy with no indyref2 until after 2024.'

    I said 'Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024' which is a correct factual conclusion from the poll answers given.

    It does not bother me what anyone thinks of my posts, if they dislike them so intently move on and respond to someone else's
    You are the most talked about poster - a celeb in other words - and I'm betting that's fine by you. You like being a celeb. You like not being able to do normal posts like normal people without being noticed and bothered and pestered. You remind me of Rod Stewart in this regard.
    Maggie may be the greatest politician to have ever lived, with BJ a close second.
    Her BJ was a close second to whose, exactly?
    My wife and I went for a romantic weekend to a hotel years back.

    Very nice, double bath and extra large shower etc etc

    They had to ruin in by saying Maggie and Dennis used to stay in that room...........

    How to ruin the mood :smiley:
    Some on here would be invigorated by the thought.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,010

    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Not good numbers on vaccination front...England only 171k yesterday (I wonder if like deaths, we are seeing a weekend effect in reporting, but still, not enough).

    Absolutely dire numbers. What has gone wrong?
    If the numbers seem weird it's probably something to do with the way they're being reported.
    Is it possible that demand under 80 is not as overwhelming as the government thought?

    Which leaves Johnson with a bit of a problem....
    What when letters for under 80s only went out yesterday.....
    I guess there could be a gap between the 80s being done and the new cohort being invited. A sort of invite-lag?
    You may be right, but I hope not. That would not be good planning.
    It doesn't really matter that much anyway. Read the news. The schools are not going back this side of Easter. The pubs won't be opening until the summer at the earliest.

    You are not getting your freedoms back for another five months at least. And even then we're talking Tier 2.

    For a while.
    ***PREDICTION POST***
    No UK pubs will open before 21 June, says Contrarian.

    I suspect this post won't age well.
    Interesting when do you think,

    The schools will be open in the UK full time and

    The pubs will revert to normal licensing hours everywhere in the UK with no restrictions.

    Lets see who is nearest the effing bull

    By Easter the pubs will be open, maybe with some restrictions at first but increasingly reduced. I would expect pubs to be largely back to normal (barring areas of special concern) by May.

    Though I disagree with 21 June being the start of summer. Meteorologically (which is what matters) all of June is summer.
    Indeed/ Full opening of ALL of the UK's pubs, restaurants and clubs with no restrictions? not before July I reckon. If then. If ever TBH.

    Lets see what Anabozina's prediction is, if that person has actually got the nads to actually make one. Which I doubt.
    Easter sounds about right to me, not without restrictions, but open. And hopefully in good weather so we can enjoy beer gardens without too many annoying rules.

    I think your forecast of 21 June for any pub opening will be out by a fair way.
    Maybe for the type of opening you refer to. With restrictions. But for all UK opening with no restrictions anywhere, I reckon 21 June is conservative, to be honest.
    Sure, not what you said in your OP though.
  • Options
    Stocky said:

    Floater said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted one by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
    You are not getting this are you. There is nothing wrong in what you say here, but you made a statement earlier as a fact. It was not a fact it was an opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

    I was pointing out why it was an opinion and not a fact by applying logic to it to demonstrate why.

    We have been here before. You seem to think that logic is some esoterical topic restricted to mathematicians. It isn't. They may be better at it, but it applies to everyday life as well.
    The only logic that matters under our constitution is the supremacy of Crown in Parliament. Boris has a majority in Parliament of 80 so what Boris says goes, there will be no indyref2 while he remains UK PM with an overall Tory majority.

    What the polling shows is only relevant to how much resistance he will face when he refuses to grant the SNP any indyref2 as he will, 43% of Scots not wanting an indyref2 for at least 10 years and 57% only wanting one within 5 years ie after the next general election shows Boris can easily get away with refusing one until 2024 as he will with little resistance bar the SNP hardcore.

    HYUFD sigh:

    Let's breakdown your post:

    1st sentence - why you use the word logic here I don't know as there is no logical construct there whatsoever (not that it is needed). It looks like a statement of fact (I assume it is correct as I don't know have that knowledge)

    2nd sentence - is a fact followed by an opinion.

    2nd para - is an opinion

    Do you know what logic is? Even if not trained in it most people grasp the basics as a matter of routine eg:

    A implies B does not mean B implies A, etc.
    I am not interested in replying to yet another of your extremely tedious and boring logic posts.

    As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway
    But HYUFD you make some brilliant posts, you are full of facts that many do not know and repost some excellent twitter post, particularly on opinion polls.

    Yet you don't seem to get why some of your post drive us up the wall and it is not because of differences in political opinion. So for instance I don't actually disagree with you on your recent post; to be honest I don't have an opinion, so I am not arguing with you on your opinion.

    I think you opinion is a perfectly valid one and one that I don't disagree with you on.

    Has it never crossed you mind why people do get annoyed then with some of your posts? It is because you state opinion as fact, then when it is demonstrated that the fact is an opinion, you give another unrelated opinion to the one in question.

    Even your last post does it:

    'As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway'.

    a) It has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue I raised initially
    b) I agree with the point you are making in this sentence.

    I did not say '57% of Scots as a matter of fact are happy with no indyref2 until after 2024.'

    I said 'Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024' which is a correct factual conclusion from the poll answers given.

    It does not bother me what anyone thinks of my posts, if they dislike them so intently move on and respond to someone else's
    You are the most talked about poster - a celeb in other words - and I'm betting that's fine by you. You like being a celeb. You like not being able to do normal posts like normal people without being noticed and bothered and pestered. You remind me of Rod Stewart in this regard.
    Maggie may be the greatest politician to have ever lived, with BJ a close second.
    Her BJ was a close second to whose, exactly?
    My wife and I went for a romantic weekend to a hotel years back.

    Very nice, double bath and extra large shower etc etc

    They had to ruin in by saying Maggie and Dennis used to stay in that room...........

    How to ruin the mood :smiley:
    Some on here would be invigorated by the thought.
    It's not called the blue pill for nothing
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic.

    Trump bears probably 70-80% of the responsibility for the divisions in America. I would agree he is without doubt the worst President in history.

    But the Democrats and their supporters also bear at least some responsibility. Although they were no where near as blatant as Trump, never the less they refused to accept that he had won fairly and used every possible tactic to try and undermine his Presidency. In this they were particularly stupid. They should have realised they would not get rid of him before 2020 but in being so partisan and refusing to accept his victory was valid they sowed the seeds for the divisions which, I personally believe, are now insurmountable.

    Quick question for you Richard and you are one of the few posters on here that recognise that the Democrats bear a lot of the responsibility for the division in the US. Why exactly is he the worst President? Do you think the US was a land of milk and honey before, and everyone was happy? My view has always been that Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

    I'm not having a go and it's maybe unfair to ask you specifically but people hear the word "Trump" and automatically say "he's so bad". But why exactly is he so bad? What has he done exactly that was so uniquely awful in the annals of US history?
    I don't think the US was a land of milk and honey before but Trump as President had a job to do in at least trying to unite the country after his victory. He made no effort to do this at all. Indeed he went out of his way to try and antagonise and attack anyone, even the most reasonable, who opposed him and his policies. He could have achieved much that he set out to do - perhaps even more than he did - if he had not been such an egotistical bastard who saw every criticism whether directed at him or his policies as being a personal affront. I can't think of any candidate in living memory who was less suited to being President.
    Yes, I agree. What marked Trump out as different is that he didn't even try to pretend to unite the country.

    In democracies, when X wins following a divisive election campaign, they always follow their victory by saying things like: "now is the time to unite the nation. I will govern for everybody, both those who voted for me, and those who didn't." But not Trump. Those who didn't vote for him could f*** right off.
    He spent day 1 in a furious lying tetch about the size of his inauguration crowd. That was as good as it got.
    And I personally don't have the remotest interest in hearing about Donald Trump being "correct in his analysis" of various things plaguing the American worker such as globalization.
    Reason I'm not interested is that neither was he. Trump gave zero shits about anything but Trump.
    He was all bad. Completely and utterly and on every level. There are no redeeming aspects or features.
    If you go for "balance" on this one you end up writing drivel.
    I'm waiting to see Trump announce that his inauguration crowd was so much bigger than Biden's (as it will be due to Covid and the lockdown that Trump has forced in Washington making attending it virtually impossible).
    Without a doubt. Poor Joe, he will not be getting much of a Big Day. His speech will be interesting though. He's not a top class orator but he did make some good ones during the campaign. Perhaps he'll be tempted by some Gerald Ford, seek to turn the page using elevated healing rhetoric.

    "Our long national nightmare is over. The fat orange fucker has gone."
    I think that the best speech I have heard from him was on 6th January. More of that would not go amiss.
    I liked that one he did at Gettysburg. Things were still in the balance then, so I was feeling anxious and tender, prone to ups and downs of emotion, just basically feeling like a girl much of the time, and listening to that speech, plus with booze on the go, led to a choking up. Very glad nobody was filming me.
    Probably the best speech ever made in the Gettysburg area, is that what you're saying?
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,685
    I wonder how many members of the public honestly believe that more people die from Covid-19 on a Tuesday. That's the problem with this way of reporting the data.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442
    edited January 2021

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic.

    Trump bears probably 70-80% of the responsibility for the divisions in America. I would agree he is without doubt the worst President in history.

    But the Democrats and their supporters also bear at least some responsibility. Although they were no where near as blatant as Trump, never the less they refused to accept that he had won fairly and used every possible tactic to try and undermine his Presidency. In this they were particularly stupid. They should have realised they would not get rid of him before 2020 but in being so partisan and refusing to accept his victory was valid they sowed the seeds for the divisions which, I personally believe, are now insurmountable.

    Quick question for you Richard and you are one of the few posters on here that recognise that the Democrats bear a lot of the responsibility for the division in the US. Why exactly is he the worst President? Do you think the US was a land of milk and honey before, and everyone was happy? My view has always been that Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

    I'm not having a go and it's maybe unfair to ask you specifically but people hear the word "Trump" and automatically say "he's so bad". But why exactly is he so bad? What has he done exactly that was so uniquely awful in the annals of US history?
    I don't think the US was a land of milk and honey before but Trump as President had a job to do in at least trying to unite the country after his victory. He made no effort to do this at all. Indeed he went out of his way to try and antagonise and attack anyone, even the most reasonable, who opposed him and his policies. He could have achieved much that he set out to do - perhaps even more than he did - if he had not been such an egotistical bastard who saw every criticism whether directed at him or his policies as being a personal affront. I can't think of any candidate in living memory who was less suited to being President.
    Yes, I agree. What marked Trump out as different is that he didn't even try to pretend to unite the country.

    In democracies, when X wins following a divisive election campaign, they always follow their victory by saying things like: "now is the time to unite the nation. I will govern for everybody, both those who voted for me, and those who didn't." But not Trump. Those who didn't vote for him could f*** right off.
    He spent day 1 in a furious lying tetch about the size of his inauguration crowd. That was as good as it got.
    And I personally don't have the remotest interest in hearing about Donald Trump being "correct in his analysis" of various things plaguing the American worker such as globalization.
    Reason I'm not interested is that neither was he. Trump gave zero shits about anything but Trump.
    He was all bad. Completely and utterly and on every level. There are no redeeming aspects or features.
    If you go for "balance" on this one you end up writing drivel.
    I'm waiting to see Trump announce that his inauguration crowd was so much bigger than Biden's (as it will be due to Covid and the lockdown that Trump has forced in Washington making attending it virtually impossible).
    Without a doubt. Poor Joe, he will not be getting much of a Big Day. His speech will be interesting though. He's not a top class orator but he did make some good ones during the campaign. Perhaps he'll be tempted by some Gerald Ford, seek to turn the page using elevated healing rhetoric.

    "Our long national nightmare is over. The fat orange fucker has gone."
    I think that the best speech I have heard from him was on 6th January. More of that would not go amiss.
    I liked that one he did at Gettysburg. Things were still in the balance then, so I was feeling anxious and tender, prone to ups and downs of emotion, just basically feeling like a girl much of the time, and listening to that speech, plus with booze on the go, led to a choking up. Very glad nobody was filming me.
    Probably the best speech ever made in the Gettysburg area, is that what you're saying?
    To be fair, the previous attempt at best speech at Gettysburg was widely rubbished, initially.

    Mainly because it wasn't 3 and half hours long, IIRC.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,442

    Local authority level data will be tricky as it is being rolled out by the NHS which has different boundaries. Publishing it by CCG or PCN (or indeed the level above CCG which I'm not sure of the name of) would be easier. The fact that the data has not been published does not mean it does not exist.
    NHS data I access routinely has local authority of residence, so it would not be surprising to see data on vaccinations by local authority.

    Not all that useful for anything in particular though, for the reasons you point out - good/bad will not be something controlled by local authorities.
  • Options
    Welsh Parliament member Alun Davies is on the brink of suspension after holding a drinks party until 2 am in the Welsh Parliament’s Members’ Tea Room, Guido understands. Davies had been a forceful critic of the Cummings Barnard Castle affair. Guido is told other members may have been there too. Developing…

    UPDATE: ITV is now reporting that Senedd officials are investigating the incident. Guido hears the investigation was sparked by the assembly’s catering staff who complained they were put in a difficult position as they tried to close the tearoom at 6 pm as per the rules

    UPDATE II: Tory MS’s in attendance are understood to have been Tory leader Paul Davies, Chief Whip Darren Millar and Nick Ramsay.

    UPDATE III: Alun Davies has been suspended. Full statement from Senedd Labour Group Spokesperson:

    “A member has been suspended from the privileges of Senedd Labour Group membership while an investigation takes place into this alleged incident.”

    https://order-order.com/2021/01/19/welsh-senedd-member-on-brink-of-suspension-after-hosting-drinks-party-in-conference-room/
  • Options

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic.

    Trump bears probably 70-80% of the responsibility for the divisions in America. I would agree he is without doubt the worst President in history.

    But the Democrats and their supporters also bear at least some responsibility. Although they were no where near as blatant as Trump, never the less they refused to accept that he had won fairly and used every possible tactic to try and undermine his Presidency. In this they were particularly stupid. They should have realised they would not get rid of him before 2020 but in being so partisan and refusing to accept his victory was valid they sowed the seeds for the divisions which, I personally believe, are now insurmountable.

    Quick question for you Richard and you are one of the few posters on here that recognise that the Democrats bear a lot of the responsibility for the division in the US. Why exactly is he the worst President? Do you think the US was a land of milk and honey before, and everyone was happy? My view has always been that Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

    I'm not having a go and it's maybe unfair to ask you specifically but people hear the word "Trump" and automatically say "he's so bad". But why exactly is he so bad? What has he done exactly that was so uniquely awful in the annals of US history?
    I don't think the US was a land of milk and honey before but Trump as President had a job to do in at least trying to unite the country after his victory. He made no effort to do this at all. Indeed he went out of his way to try and antagonise and attack anyone, even the most reasonable, who opposed him and his policies. He could have achieved much that he set out to do - perhaps even more than he did - if he had not been such an egotistical bastard who saw every criticism whether directed at him or his policies as being a personal affront. I can't think of any candidate in living memory who was less suited to being President.
    Yes, I agree. What marked Trump out as different is that he didn't even try to pretend to unite the country.

    In democracies, when X wins following a divisive election campaign, they always follow their victory by saying things like: "now is the time to unite the nation. I will govern for everybody, both those who voted for me, and those who didn't." But not Trump. Those who didn't vote for him could f*** right off.
    He spent day 1 in a furious lying tetch about the size of his inauguration crowd. That was as good as it got.
    And I personally don't have the remotest interest in hearing about Donald Trump being "correct in his analysis" of various things plaguing the American worker such as globalization.
    Reason I'm not interested is that neither was he. Trump gave zero shits about anything but Trump.
    He was all bad. Completely and utterly and on every level. There are no redeeming aspects or features.
    If you go for "balance" on this one you end up writing drivel.
    I'm waiting to see Trump announce that his inauguration crowd was so much bigger than Biden's (as it will be due to Covid and the lockdown that Trump has forced in Washington making attending it virtually impossible).
    Without a doubt. Poor Joe, he will not be getting much of a Big Day. His speech will be interesting though. He's not a top class orator but he did make some good ones during the campaign. Perhaps he'll be tempted by some Gerald Ford, seek to turn the page using elevated healing rhetoric.

    "Our long national nightmare is over. The fat orange fucker has gone."
    I think that the best speech I have heard from him was on 6th January. More of that would not go amiss.
    I liked that one he did at Gettysburg. Things were still in the balance then, so I was feeling anxious and tender, prone to ups and downs of emotion, just basically feeling like a girl much of the time, and listening to that speech, plus with booze on the go, led to a choking up. Very glad nobody was filming me.
    Probably the best speech ever made in the Gettysburg area, is that what you're saying?
    To be fair, the previous attempt at best speech at Gettysburg was widely rubbished, initially.

    Mainly because it wasn't 3 and half hours long, IIRC.
    IIRC? Exactly how old are you, Malmesbury?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic.

    Trump bears probably 70-80% of the responsibility for the divisions in America. I would agree he is without doubt the worst President in history.

    But the Democrats and their supporters also bear at least some responsibility. Although they were no where near as blatant as Trump, never the less they refused to accept that he had won fairly and used every possible tactic to try and undermine his Presidency. In this they were particularly stupid. They should have realised they would not get rid of him before 2020 but in being so partisan and refusing to accept his victory was valid they sowed the seeds for the divisions which, I personally believe, are now insurmountable.

    Quick question for you Richard and you are one of the few posters on here that recognise that the Democrats bear a lot of the responsibility for the division in the US. Why exactly is he the worst President? Do you think the US was a land of milk and honey before, and everyone was happy? My view has always been that Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

    I'm not having a go and it's maybe unfair to ask you specifically but people hear the word "Trump" and automatically say "he's so bad". But why exactly is he so bad? What has he done exactly that was so uniquely awful in the annals of US history?
    I don't think the US was a land of milk and honey before but Trump as President had a job to do in at least trying to unite the country after his victory. He made no effort to do this at all. Indeed he went out of his way to try and antagonise and attack anyone, even the most reasonable, who opposed him and his policies. He could have achieved much that he set out to do - perhaps even more than he did - if he had not been such an egotistical bastard who saw every criticism whether directed at him or his policies as being a personal affront. I can't think of any candidate in living memory who was less suited to being President.
    Yes, I agree. What marked Trump out as different is that he didn't even try to pretend to unite the country.

    In democracies, when X wins following a divisive election campaign, they always follow their victory by saying things like: "now is the time to unite the nation. I will govern for everybody, both those who voted for me, and those who didn't." But not Trump. Those who didn't vote for him could f*** right off.
    He spent day 1 in a furious lying tetch about the size of his inauguration crowd. That was as good as it got.
    And I personally don't have the remotest interest in hearing about Donald Trump being "correct in his analysis" of various things plaguing the American worker such as globalization.
    Reason I'm not interested is that neither was he. Trump gave zero shits about anything but Trump.
    He was all bad. Completely and utterly and on every level. There are no redeeming aspects or features.
    If you go for "balance" on this one you end up writing drivel.
    I'm waiting to see Trump announce that his inauguration crowd was so much bigger than Biden's (as it will be due to Covid and the lockdown that Trump has forced in Washington making attending it virtually impossible).
    Without a doubt. Poor Joe, he will not be getting much of a Big Day. His speech will be interesting though. He's not a top class orator but he did make some good ones during the campaign. Perhaps he'll be tempted by some Gerald Ford, seek to turn the page using elevated healing rhetoric.

    "Our long national nightmare is over. The fat orange fucker has gone."
    I think that the best speech I have heard from him was on 6th January. More of that would not go amiss.
    I liked that one he did at Gettysburg. Things were still in the balance then, so I was feeling anxious and tender, prone to ups and downs of emotion, just basically feeling like a girl much of the time, and listening to that speech, plus with booze on the go, led to a choking up. Very glad nobody was filming me.
    Probably the best speech ever made in the Gettysburg area, is that what you're saying?
    To be fair, the previous attempt at best speech at Gettysburg was widely rubbished, initially.

    Mainly because it wasn't 3 and half hours long, IIRC.
    I well up every time I read it.
  • Options
    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    Murder Tuesday with 1,610 deaths announced today.

    33,355 new infections.

    What do you mean by Murder Tuesday?
    A piss take of the Daily Mail and other journos who didn't and still haven't realised that there's a weekend/bank holiday effect on reporting figures.

    They'd see a decrease Saturday/Sunday/Monday then report Tuesday's catch up figures as a massive increase.
    I had no idea journalists were not aware of that (or pretend not to), would have thought the whole country was aware of data lags the amount it gets talked about.
  • Options
    Two US Army National Guard members have been removed from duty during Joe Biden's presidential inauguration because of ties to far-right militias, according to Associated Press.

    A US Army official and a senior US intelligence official confirmed the decision to AP on the condition of anonymity due to Defense Department media regulations.

    They did not say what fringe group the Guard members belonged to or what unit they served in.

    https://news.sky.com/story/us-national-guard-troops-removed-from-inauguration-duty-due-to-far-right-links-reports-12192591
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,543
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted one by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
    You are not getting this are you. There is nothing wrong in what you say here, but you made a statement earlier as a fact. It was not a fact it was an opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

    I was pointing out why it was an opinion and not a fact by applying logic to it to demonstrate why.

    We have been here before. You seem to think that logic is some esoterical topic restricted to mathematicians. It isn't. They may be better at it, but it applies to everyday life as well.
    The only logic that matters under our constitution is the supremacy of Crown in Parliament. Boris has a majority in Parliament of 80 so what Boris says goes, there will be no indyref2 while he remains UK PM with an overall Tory majority.

    What the polling shows is only relevant to how much resistance he will face when he refuses to grant the SNP any indyref2 as he will, 43% of Scots not wanting an indyref2 for at least 10 years and 57% only wanting one within 5 years ie after the next general election shows Boris can easily get away with refusing one until 2024 as he will with little resistance bar the SNP hardcore.

    HYUFD sigh:

    Let's breakdown your post:

    1st sentence - why you use the word logic here I don't know as there is no logical construct there whatsoever (not that it is needed). It looks like a statement of fact (I assume it is correct as I don't know have that knowledge)

    2nd sentence - is a fact followed by an opinion.

    2nd para - is an opinion

    Do you know what logic is? Even if not trained in it most people grasp the basics as a matter of routine eg:

    A implies B does not mean B implies A, etc.
    I am not interested in replying to yet another of your extremely tedious and boring logic posts.

    As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway
    But HYUFD you make some brilliant posts, you are full of facts that many do not know and repost some excellent twitter post, particularly on opinion polls.

    Yet you don't seem to get why some of your post drive us up the wall and it is not because of differences in political opinion. So for instance I don't actually disagree with you on your recent post; to be honest I don't have an opinion, so I am not arguing with you on your opinion.

    I think you opinion is a perfectly valid one and one that I don't disagree with you on.

    Has it never crossed you mind why people do get annoyed then with some of your posts? It is because you state opinion as fact, then when it is demonstrated that the fact is an opinion, you give another unrelated opinion to the one in question.

    Even your last post does it:

    'As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway'.

    a) It has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue I raised initially
    b) I agree with the point you are making in this sentence.

    I did not say '57% of Scots as a matter of fact are happy with no indyref2 until after 2024.'

    I said 'Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024' which is a correct factual conclusion from the poll answers given.

    It does not bother me what anyone thinks of my posts, if they dislike them so intently move on and respond to someone else's
    You are the most talked about poster - a celeb in other words - and I'm betting that's fine by you. You like being a celeb. You like not being able to do normal posts like normal people without being noticed and bothered and pestered. You remind me of Rod Stewart in this regard.
    Not sure about that. Given HYUFD's fondness for a previous PM, Rod would have to change the name of his best song from Maggie May to Maggie Will Definitely, TINA.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2021
    Vaccination Totals UK
    1st Dose - 204,076
    2nd Dose - 4,565

    1st Dose by Country
    England - 167,150
    NI - 7,140
    Scotland - 19,591
    Wales - 10,195
  • Options
    An example of those supply-chain adaptations @Philip_Thompson has been talking about:

    https://twitter.com/IrlEmbParis/status/1351556615665819648
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,226

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted one by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
    You are not getting this are you. There is nothing wrong in what you say here, but you made a statement earlier as a fact. It was not a fact it was an opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

    I was pointing out why it was an opinion and not a fact by applying logic to it to demonstrate why.

    We have been here before. You seem to think that logic is some esoterical topic restricted to mathematicians. It isn't. They may be better at it, but it applies to everyday life as well.
    The only logic that matters under our constitution is the supremacy of Crown in Parliament. Boris has a majority in Parliament of 80 so what Boris says goes, there will be no indyref2 while he remains UK PM with an overall Tory majority.

    What the polling shows is only relevant to how much resistance he will face when he refuses to grant the SNP any indyref2 as he will, 43% of Scots not wanting an indyref2 for at least 10 years and 57% only wanting one within 5 years ie after the next general election shows Boris can easily get away with refusing one until 2024 as he will with little resistance bar the SNP hardcore.

    HYUFD sigh:

    Let's breakdown your post:

    1st sentence - why you use the word logic here I don't know as there is no logical construct there whatsoever (not that it is needed). It looks like a statement of fact (I assume it is correct as I don't know have that knowledge)

    2nd sentence - is a fact followed by an opinion.

    2nd para - is an opinion

    Do you know what logic is? Even if not trained in it most people grasp the basics as a matter of routine eg:

    A implies B does not mean B implies A, etc.
    I am not interested in replying to yet another of your extremely tedious and boring logic posts.

    As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway
    But HYUFD you make some brilliant posts, you are full of facts that many do not know and repost some excellent twitter post, particularly on opinion polls.

    Yet you don't seem to get why some of your post drive us up the wall and it is not because of differences in political opinion. So for instance I don't actually disagree with you on your recent post; to be honest I don't have an opinion, so I am not arguing with you on your opinion.

    I think you opinion is a perfectly valid one and one that I don't disagree with you on.

    Has it never crossed you mind why people do get annoyed then with some of your posts? It is because you state opinion as fact, then when it is demonstrated that the fact is an opinion, you give another unrelated opinion to the one in question.

    Even your last post does it:

    'As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway'.

    a) It has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue I raised initially
    b) I agree with the point you are making in this sentence.

    I did not say '57% of Scots as a matter of fact are happy with no indyref2 until after 2024.'

    I said 'Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024' which is a correct factual conclusion from the poll answers given.

    It does not bother me what anyone thinks of my posts, if they dislike them so intently move on and respond to someone else's
    You are the most talked about poster - a celeb in other words - and I'm betting that's fine by you. You like being a celeb. You like not being able to do normal posts like normal people without being noticed and bothered and pestered. You remind me of Rod Stewart in this regard.
    The identification of HYUFD with Rod Stewart is just the sort of offbeat entertainment anyone might ask for on a drab weekday afternoon.
    Rod Stewart is the person I tend to first think of when I think about celebrity. Reason being because he used to eat at a chinese restaurant that I also used a lot and I often saw him there with his entourage. Always a frisson around his table and you could tell he was very comfortable with the whole star thing. I don't mean this in a bad way, just that he liked it.

    I wonder if @HYUFD is actually a Rod Stewart fan. That would be quite something if he is, given what we now know.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,130
    edited January 2021
    With a few minor adjustments this could easily be the lead in to an opinion piece in the Tele by a Tory minister

    https://twitter.com/SecPompeo/status/1351537398564286466?s=20
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    An example of those supply-chain adaptations @Philip_Thompson has been talking about:

    https://twitter.com/IrlEmbParis/status/1351556615665819648

    Closest neighbour. Hm, do they not recognise the existence of the UK or something? :p
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    I think vaccine data runs two days in arrears the same as case data. Today's data relates to the majority of vaccines carried out on Sunday with just a small percentage of Monday's numbers being reported IMO.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    An example of those supply-chain adaptations @Philip_Thompson has been talking about:

    https://twitter.com/IrlEmbParis/status/1351556615665819648

    Closest neighbour. Hm, do they not recognise the existence of the UK or something? :p
    They are quite clear.

    Closest EU neighbour.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic.

    Trump bears probably 70-80% of the responsibility for the divisions in America. I would agree he is without doubt the worst President in history.

    But the Democrats and their supporters also bear at least some responsibility. Although they were no where near as blatant as Trump, never the less they refused to accept that he had won fairly and used every possible tactic to try and undermine his Presidency. In this they were particularly stupid. They should have realised they would not get rid of him before 2020 but in being so partisan and refusing to accept his victory was valid they sowed the seeds for the divisions which, I personally believe, are now insurmountable.

    Quick question for you Richard and you are one of the few posters on here that recognise that the Democrats bear a lot of the responsibility for the division in the US. Why exactly is he the worst President? Do you think the US was a land of milk and honey before, and everyone was happy? My view has always been that Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

    I'm not having a go and it's maybe unfair to ask you specifically but people hear the word "Trump" and automatically say "he's so bad". But why exactly is he so bad? What has he done exactly that was so uniquely awful in the annals of US history?
    I don't think the US was a land of milk and honey before but Trump as President had a job to do in at least trying to unite the country after his victory. He made no effort to do this at all. Indeed he went out of his way to try and antagonise and attack anyone, even the most reasonable, who opposed him and his policies. He could have achieved much that he set out to do - perhaps even more than he did - if he had not been such an egotistical bastard who saw every criticism whether directed at him or his policies as being a personal affront. I can't think of any candidate in living memory who was less suited to being President.
    Yes, I agree. What marked Trump out as different is that he didn't even try to pretend to unite the country.

    In democracies, when X wins following a divisive election campaign, they always follow their victory by saying things like: "now is the time to unite the nation. I will govern for everybody, both those who voted for me, and those who didn't." But not Trump. Those who didn't vote for him could f*** right off.
    He spent day 1 in a furious lying tetch about the size of his inauguration crowd. That was as good as it got.
    And I personally don't have the remotest interest in hearing about Donald Trump being "correct in his analysis" of various things plaguing the American worker such as globalization.
    Reason I'm not interested is that neither was he. Trump gave zero shits about anything but Trump.
    He was all bad. Completely and utterly and on every level. There are no redeeming aspects or features.
    If you go for "balance" on this one you end up writing drivel.
    Well more fool you then. Because that analysis was correct and even though I agree he didn't give a shit, it doesn't mean those problems have gone away and if you ignore them because "Trump" then we may not be so lucky next time and might find the next person to use these issues without really caring about them is a lot brighter and a lot more convincing than Trump and also, because of that, a lot more dangerous.

    So you should be very interested. Otherwise you are a big part of the problem.
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:
    Shush. You'll bring out the thought police again with talk like that.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    RobD said:

    An example of those supply-chain adaptations @Philip_Thompson has been talking about:

    https://twitter.com/IrlEmbParis/status/1351556615665819648

    Closest neighbour. Hm, do they not recognise the existence of the UK or something? :p
    They are quite clear.

    Closest EU neighbour.
    Totally haven't got the hang of sentences constructed of emojis.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted one by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
    You are not getting this are you. There is nothing wrong in what you say here, but you made a statement earlier as a fact. It was not a fact it was an opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

    I was pointing out why it was an opinion and not a fact by applying logic to it to demonstrate why.

    We have been here before. You seem to think that logic is some esoterical topic restricted to mathematicians. It isn't. They may be better at it, but it applies to everyday life as well.
    The only logic that matters under our constitution is the supremacy of Crown in Parliament. Boris has a majority in Parliament of 80 so what Boris says goes, there will be no indyref2 while he remains UK PM with an overall Tory majority.

    What the polling shows is only relevant to how much resistance he will face when he refuses to grant the SNP any indyref2 as he will, 43% of Scots not wanting an indyref2 for at least 10 years and 57% only wanting one within 5 years ie after the next general election shows Boris can easily get away with refusing one until 2024 as he will with little resistance bar the SNP hardcore.

    HYUFD sigh:

    Let's breakdown your post:

    1st sentence - why you use the word logic here I don't know as there is no logical construct there whatsoever (not that it is needed). It looks like a statement of fact (I assume it is correct as I don't know have that knowledge)

    2nd sentence - is a fact followed by an opinion.

    2nd para - is an opinion

    Do you know what logic is? Even if not trained in it most people grasp the basics as a matter of routine eg:

    A implies B does not mean B implies A, etc.
    I am not interested in replying to yet another of your extremely tedious and boring logic posts.

    As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway
    But HYUFD you make some brilliant posts, you are full of facts that many do not know and repost some excellent twitter post, particularly on opinion polls.

    Yet you don't seem to get why some of your post drive us up the wall and it is not because of differences in political opinion. So for instance I don't actually disagree with you on your recent post; to be honest I don't have an opinion, so I am not arguing with you on your opinion.

    I think you opinion is a perfectly valid one and one that I don't disagree with you on.

    Has it never crossed you mind why people do get annoyed then with some of your posts? It is because you state opinion as fact, then when it is demonstrated that the fact is an opinion, you give another unrelated opinion to the one in question.

    Even your last post does it:

    'As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway'.

    a) It has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue I raised initially
    b) I agree with the point you are making in this sentence.

    I did not say '57% of Scots as a matter of fact are happy with no indyref2 until after 2024.'

    I said 'Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024' which is a correct factual conclusion from the poll answers given.

    It does not bother me what anyone thinks of my posts, if they dislike them so intently move on and respond to someone else's
    You are the most talked about poster - a celeb in other words - and I'm betting that's fine by you. You like being a celeb. You like not being able to do normal posts like normal people without being noticed and bothered and pestered. You remind me of Rod Stewart in this regard.
    Maggie may be the greatest politician to have ever lived, with BJ a close second.
    I think we need a separate ironic like button.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,786
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    I don't like Trump. I do like Obama. Trump was a better President than Obama.

    Omnium.
    A dagger to the heart, that post.
    For both of us.
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,012
    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Murder Tuesday with 1,610 deaths announced today.

    33,355 new infections.

    What do you mean by Murder Tuesday?
    A piss take of the Daily Mail and other journos who didn't and still haven't realised that there's a weekend/bank holiday effect on reporting figures.

    They'd see a decrease Saturday/Sunday/Monday then report Tuesday's catch up figures as a massive increase.
    I had no idea journalists were not aware of that (or pretend not to), would have thought the whole country was aware of data lags the amount it gets talked about.
    Going back to the vax data, there are now two "low number" days in a row. So I suspect there is a 2-day lag and today's are Sunday's. It would mean the 275,000 UK jabs reported on Sunday are Friday's. Mostly, as it definitely says "by reporting day" so it could conceivably cover a number of days.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Andy_JS said:

    "Lord Sumption: the monstering of a lockdown sceptic
    He's been the victim of a bad-faith effort to demonise criticism of government policy.
    Luke Gittos"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/19/lord-sumption-the-monstering-of-a-lockdown-sceptic/

    That's a bit needy and pitying. The main issue with Lord Sumption is he keeps saying the same thing over and over again. And given how lockdown skeptics have repeatedly ignored or misrepresented things, it's a bit rich to cry about Lord Sumption when his articles have been shared hundreds of times on here alone.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    RobD said:

    An example of those supply-chain adaptations @Philip_Thompson has been talking about:

    https://twitter.com/IrlEmbParis/status/1351556615665819648

    Closest neighbour. Hm, do they not recognise the existence of the UK or something? :p
    Closest 🇪🇺 neighbour, presumably shorthand for EU. Perhaps you haven't noticed that we have left?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Murder Tuesday with 1,610 deaths announced today.

    33,355 new infections.

    What do you mean by Murder Tuesday?
    A piss take of the Daily Mail and other journos who didn't and still haven't realised that there's a weekend/bank holiday effect on reporting figures.

    They'd see a decrease Saturday/Sunday/Monday then report Tuesday's catch up figures as a massive increase.
    I had no idea journalists were not aware of that (or pretend not to), would have thought the whole country was aware of data lags the amount it gets talked about.
    Going back to the vax data, there are now two "low number" days in a row. So I suspect there is a 2-day lag and today's are Sunday's. It would mean the 275,000 UK jabs reported on Sunday are Friday's. Mostly, as it definitely says "by reporting day" so it could conceivably cover a number of days.
    Hopefully there will be a plot of "vaccines per date administered" coming soon.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798

    With a few minor adjustments this could easily be the lead in to an opinion piece in the Tele by a Tory minister

    https://twitter.com/SecPompeo/status/1351537398564286466?s=20

    A Trump appointee going on about cloaking things as being morally righteous? Ballsy.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    An example of those supply-chain adaptations @Philip_Thompson has been talking about:

    https://twitter.com/IrlEmbParis/status/1351556615665819648

    Closest neighbour. Hm, do they not recognise the existence of the UK or something? :p
    Closest 🇪🇺 neighbour, presumably shorthand for EU. Perhaps you haven't noticed that we have left?
    Brexit? Never heard of it.
  • Options
    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Scott_xP said:
    Shush. You'll bring out the thought police again with talk like that.
    So you're saying the Dutch have made a pigs ear of things? Interesting
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    "Lord Sumption: the monstering of a lockdown sceptic
    He's been the victim of a bad-faith effort to demonise criticism of government policy.
    Luke Gittos"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/19/lord-sumption-the-monstering-of-a-lockdown-sceptic/

    No bad faith about it, good faith criticism.

    I mean just look at this correction the Telegraph had to do, he consistently gets basic facts wrong.

    Lord Sumption: The simple truth is that lockdowns do not work

    CORRECTION: An earlier version of this article stated that ' in March Imperial College produced their now "discredited" figure of 510,000 deaths unless drastic action was taken'. In fact, Imperial College predicted 250,000 UK deaths without further intervention. We have amended the opening paragraph.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/12/19/simple-truth-lockdowns-do-not-work/

    Lord Sumption is as much an expert on pandemics as I am an expert on the awesomeness of putting pineapple on pizza.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442
    Selebian said:

    Local authority level data will be tricky as it is being rolled out by the NHS which has different boundaries. Publishing it by CCG or PCN (or indeed the level above CCG which I'm not sure of the name of) would be easier. The fact that the data has not been published does not mean it does not exist.
    NHS data I access routinely has local authority of residence, so it would not be surprising to see data on vaccinations by local authority.

    Not all that useful for anything in particular though, for the reasons you point out - good/bad will not be something controlled by local authorities.
    It will almost certainly be added to the https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations portal.

    The update process for the website, by a PHE, is not hypersonic.
  • Options

    Welsh Parliament member Alun Davies is on the brink of suspension after holding a drinks party until 2 am in the Welsh Parliament’s Members’ Tea Room, Guido understands. Davies had been a forceful critic of the Cummings Barnard Castle affair. Guido is told other members may have been there too. Developing…

    UPDATE: ITV is now reporting that Senedd officials are investigating the incident. Guido hears the investigation was sparked by the assembly’s catering staff who complained they were put in a difficult position as they tried to close the tearoom at 6 pm as per the rules

    UPDATE II: Tory MS’s in attendance are understood to have been Tory leader Paul Davies, Chief Whip Darren Millar and Nick Ramsay.

    UPDATE III: Alun Davies has been suspended. Full statement from Senedd Labour Group Spokesperson:

    “A member has been suspended from the privileges of Senedd Labour Group membership while an investigation takes place into this alleged incident.”

    https://order-order.com/2021/01/19/welsh-senedd-member-on-brink-of-suspension-after-hosting-drinks-party-in-conference-room/

    I know Darren quite well and really !!!!
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    I see Brexit is going well for the fishermen. Not sure those votes are in the bag for SCON.

    https://twitter.com/scotfoodjames/status/1351491482063171588?s=19

    Also, kicking out Leonard seems popular.

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1351569785419665410?s=19
  • Options

    Murder Tuesday with 1,610 deaths announced today.

    33,355 new infections.

    Really demonstrates just how effective Boris's "Kill Your Granny" / Christmas is Saved headline stunt was.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,986

    With a few minor adjustments this could easily be the lead in to an opinion piece in the Tele by a Tory minister

    https://twitter.com/SecPompeo/status/1351537398564286466?s=20

    Tbf. If anyone has the breadth of close up experience of authoritarianism it'd be Mikey boy.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    edited January 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lord Sumption: the monstering of a lockdown sceptic
    He's been the victim of a bad-faith effort to demonise criticism of government policy.
    Luke Gittos"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/19/lord-sumption-the-monstering-of-a-lockdown-sceptic/

    No bad faith about it, good faith criticism.

    I mean just look at this correction the Telegraph had to do, he consistently gets basic facts wrong.

    Lord Sumption: The simple truth is that lockdowns do not work

    CORRECTION: An earlier version of this article stated that ' in March Imperial College produced their now "discredited" figure of 510,000 deaths unless drastic action was taken'. In fact, Imperial College predicted 250,000 UK deaths without further intervention. We have amended the opening paragraph.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/12/19/simple-truth-lockdowns-do-not-work/

    Lord Sumption is as much an expert on pandemics as I am an expert on the awesomeness of putting pineapple on pizza.
    He seems to be a case study in how undoubted intellect in one field does not make an expert in another - and how even the great intellects make common, petty errors (or delibately misrepresent) when they are pushing a position rather than care about assessing things.

    I wouldn't even mind that so much, I own several of his books, if not for the 'I'm being picked on' whinging like a baby stuff that people indulge in.
  • Options

    An example of those supply-chain adaptations @Philip_Thompson has been talking about:

    https://twitter.com/IrlEmbParis/status/1351556615665819648

    Absolutely! The market finds a way at adapting.

    If we were previously just being used as a conduit then it reduces pressure on our ports, on our roads, emissions of particles etc on our roads. Its a good adaptation to have our roads and ports used by those who actually want to use them. 👍🏻
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,220
    Off topic and breaking.

    Labour's Alun Davies has been suspended from the Labour AM group for drinking alcohol in the Senedd, despite a ban.
  • Options
    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Foxy said:

    I see Brexit is going well for the fishermen. Not sure those votes are in the bag for SCON.

    https://twitter.com/scotfoodjames/status/1351491482063171588?s=19

    Also, kicking out Leonard seems popular.

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1351569785419665410?s=19

    Reading the dates always helps
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lord Sumption: the monstering of a lockdown sceptic
    He's been the victim of a bad-faith effort to demonise criticism of government policy.
    Luke Gittos"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/19/lord-sumption-the-monstering-of-a-lockdown-sceptic/

    No bad faith about it, good faith criticism.

    I mean just look at this correction the Telegraph had to do, he consistently gets basic facts wrong.

    Lord Sumption: The simple truth is that lockdowns do not work

    CORRECTION: An earlier version of this article stated that ' in March Imperial College produced their now "discredited" figure of 510,000 deaths unless drastic action was taken'. In fact, Imperial College predicted 250,000 UK deaths without further intervention. We have amended the opening paragraph.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/12/19/simple-truth-lockdowns-do-not-work/

    Lord Sumption is as much an expert on pandemics as I am an expert on the awesomeness of putting pineapple on pizza.
    But he went to Eton so has a God-given right to pontificate on all subjects.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,130
    edited January 2021
    Foxy said:

    I see Brexit is going well for the fishermen. Not sure those votes are in the bag for SCON.

    https://twitter.com/scotfoodjames/status/1351491482063171588?s=19

    Also, kicking out Leonard seems popular.

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1351569785419665410?s=19

    Fieldwork was before his resignation* I think.

    *sacking by SKS and Labour donors
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    Brom said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Shush. You'll bring out the thought police again with talk like that.
    So you're saying the Dutch have made a pigs ear of things? Interesting
    Someone's telling porkies. I expect that they will get the chop.
  • Options

    Off topic and breaking.

    Labour's Alun Davies has been suspended from the Labour AM group for drinking alcohol in the Senedd, despite a ban.

    He and the three Tories should all resign.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689

    Foxy said:

    I see Brexit is going well for the fishermen. Not sure those votes are in the bag for SCON.

    https://twitter.com/scotfoodjames/status/1351491482063171588?s=19

    Also, kicking out Leonard seems popular.

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1351569785419665410?s=19

    Fieldwork was before his resignation I think
    Yes, perhaps so. Interesting to see the next poll.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic.

    Trump bears probably 70-80% of the responsibility for the divisions in America. I would agree he is without doubt the worst President in history.

    But the Democrats and their supporters also bear at least some responsibility. Although they were no where near as blatant as Trump, never the less they refused to accept that he had won fairly and used every possible tactic to try and undermine his Presidency. In this they were particularly stupid. They should have realised they would not get rid of him before 2020 but in being so partisan and refusing to accept his victory was valid they sowed the seeds for the divisions which, I personally believe, are now insurmountable.

    Quick question for you Richard and you are one of the few posters on here that recognise that the Democrats bear a lot of the responsibility for the division in the US. Why exactly is he the worst President? Do you think the US was a land of milk and honey before, and everyone was happy? My view has always been that Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

    I'm not having a go and it's maybe unfair to ask you specifically but people hear the word "Trump" and automatically say "he's so bad". But why exactly is he so bad? What has he done exactly that was so uniquely awful in the annals of US history?
    I don't think the US was a land of milk and honey before but Trump as President had a job to do in at least trying to unite the country after his victory. He made no effort to do this at all. Indeed he went out of his way to try and antagonise and attack anyone, even the most reasonable, who opposed him and his policies. He could have achieved much that he set out to do - perhaps even more than he did - if he had not been such an egotistical bastard who saw every criticism whether directed at him or his policies as being a personal affront. I can't think of any candidate in living memory who was less suited to being President.
    Yes, I agree. What marked Trump out as different is that he didn't even try to pretend to unite the country.

    In democracies, when X wins following a divisive election campaign, they always follow their victory by saying things like: "now is the time to unite the nation. I will govern for everybody, both those who voted for me, and those who didn't." But not Trump. Those who didn't vote for him could f*** right off.
    He spent day 1 in a furious lying tetch about the size of his inauguration crowd. That was as good as it got.
    And I personally don't have the remotest interest in hearing about Donald Trump being "correct in his analysis" of various things plaguing the American worker such as globalization.
    Reason I'm not interested is that neither was he. Trump gave zero shits about anything but Trump.
    He was all bad. Completely and utterly and on every level. There are no redeeming aspects or features.
    If you go for "balance" on this one you end up writing drivel.
    I'm waiting to see Trump announce that his inauguration crowd was so much bigger than Biden's (as it will be due to Covid and the lockdown that Trump has forced in Washington making attending it virtually impossible).
    Without a doubt. Poor Joe, he will not be getting much of a Big Day. His speech will be interesting though. He's not a top class orator but he did make some good ones during the campaign. Perhaps he'll be tempted by some Gerald Ford, seek to turn the page using elevated healing rhetoric.

    "Our long national nightmare is over. The fat orange fucker has gone."
    I think that the best speech I have heard from him was on 6th January. More of that would not go amiss.
    I liked that one he did at Gettysburg. Things were still in the balance then, so I was feeling anxious and tender, prone to ups and downs of emotion, just basically feeling like a girl much of the time, and listening to that speech, plus with booze on the go, led to a choking up. Very glad nobody was filming me.
    Probably the best speech ever made in the Gettysburg area, is that what you're saying?
    To be fair, the previous attempt at best speech at Gettysburg was widely rubbished, initially.

    Mainly because it wasn't 3 and half hours long, IIRC.
    IIRC? Exactly how old are you, Malmesbury?
    Malmesbury is no ordinary poster, I have long sensed this. He is as old as the Hills and is also able to shapeshift at will. Hence the olympian wisdom, ancient and modern, science and arts, dispensed on a regular basis, plus the BIG giveaway - the fact he has personally known and had quality conversations with every raving left wing hypocrite who has ever lived.
    Not every raving left wing hypocrite, maybe 0.03%
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,010
    Floater said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted one by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
    You are not getting this are you. There is nothing wrong in what you say here, but you made a statement earlier as a fact. It was not a fact it was an opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

    I was pointing out why it was an opinion and not a fact by applying logic to it to demonstrate why.

    We have been here before. You seem to think that logic is some esoterical topic restricted to mathematicians. It isn't. They may be better at it, but it applies to everyday life as well.
    The only logic that matters under our constitution is the supremacy of Crown in Parliament. Boris has a majority in Parliament of 80 so what Boris says goes, there will be no indyref2 while he remains UK PM with an overall Tory majority.

    What the polling shows is only relevant to how much resistance he will face when he refuses to grant the SNP any indyref2 as he will, 43% of Scots not wanting an indyref2 for at least 10 years and 57% only wanting one within 5 years ie after the next general election shows Boris can easily get away with refusing one until 2024 as he will with little resistance bar the SNP hardcore.

    HYUFD sigh:

    Let's breakdown your post:

    1st sentence - why you use the word logic here I don't know as there is no logical construct there whatsoever (not that it is needed). It looks like a statement of fact (I assume it is correct as I don't know have that knowledge)

    2nd sentence - is a fact followed by an opinion.

    2nd para - is an opinion

    Do you know what logic is? Even if not trained in it most people grasp the basics as a matter of routine eg:

    A implies B does not mean B implies A, etc.
    I am not interested in replying to yet another of your extremely tedious and boring logic posts.

    As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway
    But HYUFD you make some brilliant posts, you are full of facts that many do not know and repost some excellent twitter post, particularly on opinion polls.

    Yet you don't seem to get why some of your post drive us up the wall and it is not because of differences in political opinion. So for instance I don't actually disagree with you on your recent post; to be honest I don't have an opinion, so I am not arguing with you on your opinion.

    I think you opinion is a perfectly valid one and one that I don't disagree with you on.

    Has it never crossed you mind why people do get annoyed then with some of your posts? It is because you state opinion as fact, then when it is demonstrated that the fact is an opinion, you give another unrelated opinion to the one in question.

    Even your last post does it:

    'As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway'.

    a) It has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue I raised initially
    b) I agree with the point you are making in this sentence.

    I did not say '57% of Scots as a matter of fact are happy with no indyref2 until after 2024.'

    I said 'Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024' which is a correct factual conclusion from the poll answers given.

    It does not bother me what anyone thinks of my posts, if they dislike them so intently move on and respond to someone else's
    You are the most talked about poster - a celeb in other words - and I'm betting that's fine by you. You like being a celeb. You like not being able to do normal posts like normal people without being noticed and bothered and pestered. You remind me of Rod Stewart in this regard.
    Maggie may be the greatest politician to have ever lived, with BJ a close second.
    Her BJ was a close second to whose, exactly?
    My wife and I went for a romantic weekend to a hotel years back.

    Very nice, double bath and extra large shower etc etc

    They had to ruin in by saying Maggie and Dennis used to stay in that room...........

    How to ruin the mood :smiley:
    :#
  • Options

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lord Sumption: the monstering of a lockdown sceptic
    He's been the victim of a bad-faith effort to demonise criticism of government policy.
    Luke Gittos"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/19/lord-sumption-the-monstering-of-a-lockdown-sceptic/

    No bad faith about it, good faith criticism.

    I mean just look at this correction the Telegraph had to do, he consistently gets basic facts wrong.

    Lord Sumption: The simple truth is that lockdowns do not work

    CORRECTION: An earlier version of this article stated that ' in March Imperial College produced their now "discredited" figure of 510,000 deaths unless drastic action was taken'. In fact, Imperial College predicted 250,000 UK deaths without further intervention. We have amended the opening paragraph.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/12/19/simple-truth-lockdowns-do-not-work/

    Lord Sumption is as much an expert on pandemics as I am an expert on the awesomeness of putting pineapple on pizza.
    But he went to Eton so has a God-given right to pontificate on all subjects.
    It's not an Eton thing, look at the output of embarrassing things Peter Hitchens has said, I'll never forget his mistaken belief on all things Stochastic.
  • Options
    GaussianGaussian Posts: 793

    Selebian said:

    Local authority level data will be tricky as it is being rolled out by the NHS which has different boundaries. Publishing it by CCG or PCN (or indeed the level above CCG which I'm not sure of the name of) would be easier. The fact that the data has not been published does not mean it does not exist.
    NHS data I access routinely has local authority of residence, so it would not be surprising to see data on vaccinations by local authority.

    Not all that useful for anything in particular though, for the reasons you point out - good/bad will not be something controlled by local authorities.
    It will almost certainly be added to the https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations portal.

    The update process for the website, by a PHE, is not hypersonic.
    The really interesting data would be cases (and then hospitalizations and deaths) split by vaccinated and unvaccinated. Presumably they're already collecting that and insiders are getting a preview.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259

    With a few minor adjustments this could easily be the lead in to an opinion piece in the Tele by a Tory minister

    https://twitter.com/SecPompeo/status/1351537398564286466?s=20

    Wasn't Jefferson, a founder, in favour of a bit of Jacobinism in his day?

  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I see Brexit is going well for the fishermen. Not sure those votes are in the bag for SCON.

    https://twitter.com/scotfoodjames/status/1351491482063171588?s=19

    Also, kicking out Leonard seems popular.

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1351569785419665410?s=19

    Fieldwork was before his resignation I think
    Yes, perhaps so. Interesting to see the next poll.
    I think it'll be pretty fluid on an moe level until they choose a new leader. There's a better than fair chance that they'll supplant the SCons as second party when it comes to May imho.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited January 2021

    An example of those supply-chain adaptations @Philip_Thompson has been talking about:

    https://twitter.com/IrlEmbParis/status/1351556615665819648

    But, what is the advantage of having these Irish trucks trundle through Wales & England to the continent?

    They pay no tariff, and they can easily avoid buying diesel in the UK (diesel is cheaper in Ireland) so they are not even contributing to taxation and hence upkeep of the roads. They are not even paying their way.

    They are noisy & polluting, they are contributing to heavy traffic on the road & congestion.

    Against this, I guess there are some jobs at Holyhead and Dover that depend on the Irish truckers. They may go.

    I might feel differently if Irish haulage to Europe was contributing to upkeep of our roads -- are they?

    Before we get any more posts about this from you and Scott and co, please explain the advantage ***to Wales and England*** of having trucks use us a land-bridge to the EU.

    Presumably, if we are all drove our juggernauts through Nabavi Gardens on our way to somewhere else, without offering any recompense, Richard Nabavi would quickly put a stop to it.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Don't donate materials to Italian museums

    A 500-year-old painting has been discovered in a flat in Italy and returned to a museum - where staff were unaware it had even been stolen...

    officials were not aware it had been stolen because "the room where the painting is kept has not been open for three months" due to the coronavirus pandemic.

    It is not known when the artwork was taken as no one had reported it missing, but the museum said it was in its possession as recently as last January.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55719685
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,543
    edited January 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    "Lord Sumption: the monstering of a lockdown sceptic
    He's been the victim of a bad-faith effort to demonise criticism of government policy.
    Luke Gittos"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/19/lord-sumption-the-monstering-of-a-lockdown-sceptic/

    That's an awful article that entirely misses the point. Sumption explicitly said to a 29-year-old woman with life-shortening cancer, on TV, that her life was 'less valuable' than, say, his grandchildren. That sort of analysis of QALY is fine in a theoretical or abstract discussion, and of course there is an argument to be had. And he might even be right. But the gross insensitivity of saying this directly to a cancer sufferer is grossly insensitive and suggests he's a crass boor.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
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    GaussianGaussian Posts: 793
    MaxPB said:

    I think vaccine data runs two days in arrears the same as case data. Today's data relates to the majority of vaccines carried out on Sunday with just a small percentage of Monday's numbers being reported IMO.

    Looks plausible for England, but not the others. Scotland's 19K today is the highest so far, at least if you ignore yesterday's 40K that followed two days without reporting. No obvious pattern for NI or Wales either yet. There might be quite inconsistent reporting lags, which maybe average out more for England.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    Single Covid vaccine dose in Israel 'less effective than we hoped'
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/19/single-covid-vaccine-dose-in-israel-less-effective-than-we-hoped

    Not great news.
  • Options

    An example of those supply-chain adaptations @Philip_Thompson has been talking about:

    https://twitter.com/IrlEmbParis/status/1351556615665819648

    But, what is the advantage of having these Irish trucks trundle through Wales & England to the continent?

    They pay no tariff, and they can easily avoid buying diesel in the UK (diesel is cheaper in Ireland) so they are not even contributing to taxation and hence upkeep of the roads. They are not even paying their way.

    They are noisy & polluting, they are contributing to heavy traffic on the road & congestion.

    Against this, I guess there are some jobs at Holyhead and Dover that depend on the Irish truckers. They may go.

    I might feel differently if Irish haulage to Europe was contributing to upkeep of our roads -- are they?

    Before we get any more posts about this from you and Scott and co, please explain the advantage ***to Wales and England*** of having trucks use us a land-bridge to the EU.

    Presumably, if we are all drove our juggernauts through Nabavi Gardens on our way to somewhere else, without offering any recompense, Richard Nabavi would quickly put a stop to it.
    It is an excellent point and of course the sea routes will take longer and will be weather affected

    As far as I am concerned Irish truckers going to Dover through North Wales do not seem to contribute anything but noise and pollution
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,220

    Off topic and breaking.

    Labour's Alun Davies has been suspended from the Labour AM group for drinking alcohol in the Senedd, despite a ban.

    He and the three Tories should all resign.
    ITV News hub has only specified Alun Davies of the Labour group.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442
    UK cases by specimen date scaled to 100K population

    image
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442
    UK local R

    image
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lord Sumption: the monstering of a lockdown sceptic
    He's been the victim of a bad-faith effort to demonise criticism of government policy.
    Luke Gittos"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/19/lord-sumption-the-monstering-of-a-lockdown-sceptic/

    No bad faith about it, good faith criticism.

    I mean just look at this correction the Telegraph had to do, he consistently gets basic facts wrong.

    Lord Sumption: The simple truth is that lockdowns do not work

    CORRECTION: An earlier version of this article stated that ' in March Imperial College produced their now "discredited" figure of 510,000 deaths unless drastic action was taken'. In fact, Imperial College predicted 250,000 UK deaths without further intervention. We have amended the opening paragraph.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/12/19/simple-truth-lockdowns-do-not-work/

    Lord Sumption is as much an expert on pandemics as I am an expert on the awesomeness of putting pineapple on pizza.
    But he went to Eton so has a God-given right to pontificate on all subjects.
    He was a High Court judge, so I guess got out of the habit of being talked back at.
  • Options
    Here's another example of the Mail and Murder Tuesday.

    Britain records its deadliest day since Covid pandemic began with 1,610 new victims

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9164179/Britain-records-deadliest-day-Covid-pandemic-began-1-610-new-victims.html
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442
    UK case summary

    image
    image
    image
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442
    UK hospitals

    image
    image
    image
    image
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,226
    edited January 2021

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted one by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
    You are not getting this are you. There is nothing wrong in what you say here, but you made a statement earlier as a fact. It was not a fact it was an opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

    I was pointing out why it was an opinion and not a fact by applying logic to it to demonstrate why.

    We have been here before. You seem to think that logic is some esoterical topic restricted to mathematicians. It isn't. They may be better at it, but it applies to everyday life as well.
    The only logic that matters under our constitution is the supremacy of Crown in Parliament. Boris has a majority in Parliament of 80 so what Boris says goes, there will be no indyref2 while he remains UK PM with an overall Tory majority.

    What the polling shows is only relevant to how much resistance he will face when he refuses to grant the SNP any indyref2 as he will, 43% of Scots not wanting an indyref2 for at least 10 years and 57% only wanting one within 5 years ie after the next general election shows Boris can easily get away with refusing one until 2024 as he will with little resistance bar the SNP hardcore.

    HYUFD sigh:

    Let's breakdown your post:

    1st sentence - why you use the word logic here I don't know as there is no logical construct there whatsoever (not that it is needed). It looks like a statement of fact (I assume it is correct as I don't know have that knowledge)

    2nd sentence - is a fact followed by an opinion.

    2nd para - is an opinion

    Do you know what logic is? Even if not trained in it most people grasp the basics as a matter of routine eg:

    A implies B does not mean B implies A, etc.
    I am not interested in replying to yet another of your extremely tedious and boring logic posts.

    As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway
    But HYUFD you make some brilliant posts, you are full of facts that many do not know and repost some excellent twitter post, particularly on opinion polls.

    Yet you don't seem to get why some of your post drive us up the wall and it is not because of differences in political opinion. So for instance I don't actually disagree with you on your recent post; to be honest I don't have an opinion, so I am not arguing with you on your opinion.

    I think you opinion is a perfectly valid one and one that I don't disagree with you on.

    Has it never crossed you mind why people do get annoyed then with some of your posts? It is because you state opinion as fact, then when it is demonstrated that the fact is an opinion, you give another unrelated opinion to the one in question.

    Even your last post does it:

    'As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway'.

    a) It has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue I raised initially
    b) I agree with the point you are making in this sentence.

    I did not say '57% of Scots as a matter of fact are happy with no indyref2 until after 2024.'

    I said 'Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024' which is a correct factual conclusion from the poll answers given.

    It does not bother me what anyone thinks of my posts, if they dislike them so intently move on and respond to someone else's
    You are the most talked about poster - a celeb in other words - and I'm betting that's fine by you. You like being a celeb. You like not being able to do normal posts like normal people without being noticed and bothered and pestered. You remind me of Rod Stewart in this regard.
    Not sure about that. Given HYUFD's fondness for a previous PM, Rod would have to change the name of his best song from Maggie May to Maggie Will Definitely, TINA.
    :smile: - Political slants on Rod songs. That's a goer.

    Hot Takes.
    Tories Failing.
    I Was Only Voting (my dear).
    The First Cuts Are The Deepest.
    The Right's Uptight.
    What Made Bill Walker Famous.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,220

    An example of those supply-chain adaptations @Philip_Thompson has been talking about:

    https://twitter.com/IrlEmbParis/status/1351556615665819648

    But, what is the advantage of having these Irish trucks trundle through Wales & England to the continent?

    They pay no tariff, and they can easily avoid buying diesel in the UK (diesel is cheaper in Ireland) so they are not even contributing to taxation and hence upkeep of the roads. They are not even paying their way.

    They are noisy & polluting, they are contributing to heavy traffic on the road & congestion.

    Against this, I guess there are some jobs at Holyhead and Dover that depend on the Irish truckers. They may go.

    I might feel differently if Irish haulage to Europe was contributing to upkeep of our roads -- are they?

    Before we get any more posts about this from you and Scott and co, please explain the advantage ***to Wales and England*** of having trucks use us a land-bridge to the EU.

    Presumably, if we are all drove our juggernauts through Nabavi Gardens on our way to somewhere else, without offering any recompense, Richard Nabavi would quickly put a stop to it.
    It is an excellent point and of course the sea routes will take longer and will be weather affected

    As far as I am concerned Irish truckers going to Dover through North Wales do not seem to contribute anything but noise and pollution
    What are your thoughts on Alun Davies' drinking exploits? Throw him out! It is unfortunate that Drakeford is a teetotaler!
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    Off topic and breaking.

    Labour's Alun Davies has been suspended from the Labour AM group for drinking alcohol in the Senedd, despite a ban.

    He and the three Tories should all resign.
    ITV News hub has only specified Alun Davies of the Labour group.
    Reported elsewhere that it was three Conservative AMs and one Labour AM. Last I heard the Labour one has been suspended by his party and nothing's been done about the Conservatives. I'd expect that to change fairly shortly.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442
    UK Deaths

    Today

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    Yesterday

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    edited January 2021

    An example of those supply-chain adaptations @Philip_Thompson has been talking about:

    https://twitter.com/IrlEmbParis/status/1351556615665819648

    But, what is the advantage of having these Irish trucks trundle through Wales & England to the continent?

    They pay no tariff, and they can easily avoid buying diesel in the UK (diesel is cheaper in Ireland) so they are not even contributing to taxation and hence upkeep of the roads. They are not even paying their way.

    They are noisy & polluting, they are contributing to heavy traffic on the road & congestion.

    Against this, I guess there are some jobs at Holyhead and Dover that depend on the Irish truckers. They may go.

    I might feel differently if Irish haulage to Europe was contributing to upkeep of our roads -- are they?

    Before we get any more posts about this from you and Scott and co, please explain the advantage ***to Wales and England*** of having trucks use us a land-bridge to the EU.

    Presumably, if we are all drove our juggernauts through Nabavi Gardens on our way to somewhere else, without offering any recompense, Richard Nabavi would quickly put a stop to it.
    IIRC we used charge £10 a day for every EU truck to use our roads, was introduced by the coalition.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,579

    An example of those supply-chain adaptations @Philip_Thompson has been talking about:

    https://twitter.com/IrlEmbParis/status/1351556615665819648

    But, what is the advantage of having these Irish trucks trundle through Wales & England to the continent?

    They pay no tariff, and they can easily avoid buying diesel in the UK (diesel is cheaper in Ireland) so they are not even contributing to taxation and hence upkeep of the roads. They are not even paying their way.

    They are noisy & polluting, they are contributing to heavy traffic on the road & congestion.

    Against this, I guess there are some jobs at Holyhead and Dover that depend on the Irish truckers. They may go.

    I might feel differently if Irish haulage to Europe was contributing to upkeep of our roads -- are they?

    Before we get any more posts about this from you and Scott and co, please explain the advantage ***to Wales and England*** of having trucks use us a land-bridge to the EU.

    Presumably, if we are all drove our juggernauts through Nabavi Gardens on our way to somewhere else, without offering any recompense, Richard Nabavi would quickly put a stop to it.
    It is an excellent point and of course the sea routes will take longer and will be weather affected

    As far as I am concerned Irish truckers going to Dover through North Wales do not seem to contribute anything but noise and pollution
    I thought they now paid Road Tax.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    Brom said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Shush. You'll bring out the thought police again with talk like that.
    So you're saying the Dutch have made a pigs ear of things? Interesting
    It's an offal mess.
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    Here's another example of the Mail and Murder Tuesday.

    Britain records its deadliest day since Covid pandemic began with 1,610 new victims

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9164179/Britain-records-deadliest-day-Covid-pandemic-began-1-610-new-victims.html

    Sort of, in that they don't make it clear that the deaths didn't actually happen in the last 24 hours, but not really, because they make a point of comparing the figure with last Tuesday's, rather than yesterday's.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314
    Nigelb said:

    Single Covid vaccine dose in Israel 'less effective than we hoped'
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/19/single-covid-vaccine-dose-in-israel-less-effective-than-we-hoped

    Not great news.

    I'm, er, no viral immunologist but I would have thought that the chances of a single dose being good or not good were equal at around 50%.

    The government for very sound and understandable reasons has jettisoned for the moment the second dose but the fact remains that no trial has been done on single dosage and it is at best speculation that the efficacy is this that or the other.

    Which is why a large number of viral immunologists are nervous or even disagree with the decision. But it is after all only a few weeks delay so people will manage. Oh there is the effect on that vulnerable category of people's mental health (on the bus off the bus) but I'm sure the bigger picture is more important.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    You know that poll was commissioned by James Kelly right, the bloke who you said had somehow finagled the results of his last poll?

    This is an interesting subsidiary question dontcha think?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1351236452944900097?s=21
    Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024.

    So most Scots would therefore be fine with Boris refusing an indyref for the rest of this Parliament (though that poll is a Comres poll not the Survation poll from today).

    On today's Yougov poll Starmer would then become PM with SNP support and he can give the SNP their indyref along with devomax, it would no longer be Boris' problem.
    'within' does not necessarily mean they will be happy with after 2024 at all. You have jumped to a conclusion there.
    43% of Scots do not even want another indy referendum for at least another 10 years, it would only take about 20% of that 57% to be happy for no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024 for a majority of Scots to support no indyref until after the next UK general election in 2024.

    Regardless, the decision is one for Boris as UK PM, he has ruled one out so there will not be one until 2024 at the earliest if Starmer becomes PM.
    See my other reply that deals with the logic of your post.
    The logic is our constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament so even if 99% of Scots wanted one by 2024 Boris with a UK majority of 80 at Westminster can refuse.

    The polling is just a matter of how easy it will be to refuse, Boris will still refuse it regardless as long as he is PM whatever happens at Holyrood in May
    You are not getting this are you. There is nothing wrong in what you say here, but you made a statement earlier as a fact. It was not a fact it was an opinion. It was a perfectly reasonable opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

    I was pointing out why it was an opinion and not a fact by applying logic to it to demonstrate why.

    We have been here before. You seem to think that logic is some esoterical topic restricted to mathematicians. It isn't. They may be better at it, but it applies to everyday life as well.
    The only logic that matters under our constitution is the supremacy of Crown in Parliament. Boris has a majority in Parliament of 80 so what Boris says goes, there will be no indyref2 while he remains UK PM with an overall Tory majority.

    What the polling shows is only relevant to how much resistance he will face when he refuses to grant the SNP any indyref2 as he will, 43% of Scots not wanting an indyref2 for at least 10 years and 57% only wanting one within 5 years ie after the next general election shows Boris can easily get away with refusing one until 2024 as he will with little resistance bar the SNP hardcore.

    HYUFD sigh:

    Let's breakdown your post:

    1st sentence - why you use the word logic here I don't know as there is no logical construct there whatsoever (not that it is needed). It looks like a statement of fact (I assume it is correct as I don't know have that knowledge)

    2nd sentence - is a fact followed by an opinion.

    2nd para - is an opinion

    Do you know what logic is? Even if not trained in it most people grasp the basics as a matter of routine eg:

    A implies B does not mean B implies A, etc.
    I am not interested in replying to yet another of your extremely tedious and boring logic posts.

    As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway
    But HYUFD you make some brilliant posts, you are full of facts that many do not know and repost some excellent twitter post, particularly on opinion polls.

    Yet you don't seem to get why some of your post drive us up the wall and it is not because of differences in political opinion. So for instance I don't actually disagree with you on your recent post; to be honest I don't have an opinion, so I am not arguing with you on your opinion.

    I think you opinion is a perfectly valid one and one that I don't disagree with you on.

    Has it never crossed you mind why people do get annoyed then with some of your posts? It is because you state opinion as fact, then when it is demonstrated that the fact is an opinion, you give another unrelated opinion to the one in question.

    Even your last post does it:

    'As I said without the approval of the UK PM logically there can be no legal indyref2 anyway'.

    a) It has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue I raised initially
    b) I agree with the point you are making in this sentence.

    I did not say '57% of Scots as a matter of fact are happy with no indyref2 until after 2024.'

    I said 'Even if 57% want a say in the next 5 years that means by 2026 ie after the next UK general election in 2024' which is a correct factual conclusion from the poll answers given.

    It does not bother me what anyone thinks of my posts, if they dislike them so intently move on and respond to someone else's
    You are the most talked about poster - a celeb in other words - and I'm betting that's fine by you. You like being a celeb. You like not being able to do normal posts like normal people without being noticed and bothered and pestered. You remind me of Rod Stewart in this regard.
    Not sure about that. Given HYUFD's fondness for a previous PM, Rod would have to change the name of his best song from Maggie May to Maggie Will Definitely, TINA.
    :smile: - Political slants on Rod songs. That's a goer.

    Hot Takes.
    I Was Only Voting (my dear).
    The First Cuts Are The Deepest.
    The Right's Uptight.
    What Made Bill Walker Famous.
    Pangolin Wind
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442
    UK R

    From cases

    image
    image

    From hospitalisation data

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This discussion has been closed.