According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
Paid by whom? And how would the property value be determined?
Very similar idea about 10 paras down in a piece by Kevin Holinrake MP on Con Home last September. Slightly more sophisticated, in fact.
In place of the administrative challenge of council tax, in which properties are taxed through a confusing and distorting system of bands and exemptions, the PPT would apply a single rate of tax – 0.48 per cent of property value – to all homes. Owners rather than tenants would be responsible for the tax, removing over 8.7 million households from property tax altogether and saving councils an annual £400 million in administrative costs.
To incentivise more efficient usage of existing property, a surcharge on second, empty and offshore-owned homes would be introduced, as well as on plots of land that received council planning permission yet have been left vacant by developers. The policy is revenue neutral – raising the same amount of money for the Treasury as the scrapped taxes currently do.
To maintain the important democratic link between local expenditure and local taxation, Fairer Share recommends that the 0.48 per cent rate should consist of two components. A fixed national rate (0.32 per cent) which would go to central government for redistribution and an initial floating local rate (0.16 per cent) which would go straight to the local authority and could subsequently be moved up or down by that authority. In this way local authorities retain flexibility over taxation and voters can still judge them on value for money.
And importantly, this approach includes the complete abolition of stamp duty land tax (SDLT) on owner-occupied residential property.
What's the point if we need to raise more tax, if it is revenue-neutral?
I'm also puzzled, becasue council tax is a modified version of a poll tax mitigated somewhat by the need to allow for single vs multiple occupiers. This new tax goes the other way - very hostile to the typical one or two oldies in an expensive SE England house - like Mrs May's so-called dementia tax, very unwelcome to the Tory party member demographic. It's\ so against the sustained Tory policy in recent yeats of pampering such folk in the tax system (e.g. on IHT, and allowances for various kinds of income) that I am startled. Is Mr Sunak being encouraged to wreck his own chances of becoming PM? Or is this being leaked by someone else with a motive?
Saves half a billion quid in admin fees.
Indeed, but for the councils - not central government. Unless further cuts arte planned for support to local gmt.
By my calculation, the full Council Tax on my property in Greater London is almost exactly 0.48% of its value.
I don't know if the single occupancy discount would be retained, I assume not, though, so my bill would indeed rise.
I suspect you would be an exception there. For my parents their council tax is approximately 0.3% of the property value and up north I'm paying probably 0.8%.
Like others I've seen that Rumsfeld quote positively referenced many times. Maybe it was the man and the moment that saw it criticised more than its inherent quality.
The criticism was because of the situation. It was a perfectly sensible enumeration of a basic premise but it was delivered in a manner that made him look like a total dick.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
You could argue it's not fair how people who happen to live in London have experienced such a big bonus in terms of the value of their property over the last 40 years or so compared to elsewhere in the UK.
By my calculation, the full Council Tax on my property in Greater London is almost exactly 0.48% of its value.
I don't know if the single occupancy discount would be retained, I assume not, though, so my bill would indeed rise.
In central London it is probably closer to 0.25%. Without seeing the details probably in favour even though it will cost me more. Would prefer a proper LVT.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It is, but does that make it the wrong thing to do?
Rent or the mortgage are based on the real value of the property, not the value decades ago, so why shouldn't property taxes be?
Besides if they cause house prices to go down then the tax goes down, as does the mortgage or rent for anyone who goes there in the future.
And the other option is additional council tax bands with a revaluation. That equally is only going to result in taxes going up in London.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
Paid by whom? And how would the property value be determined?
Very similar idea about 10 paras down in a piece by Kevin Holinrake MP on Con Home last September. Slightly more sophisticated, in fact.
In place of the administrative challenge of council tax, in which properties are taxed through a confusing and distorting system of bands and exemptions, the PPT would apply a single rate of tax – 0.48 per cent of property value – to all homes. Owners rather than tenants would be responsible for the tax, removing over 8.7 million households from property tax altogether and saving councils an annual £400 million in administrative costs.
To incentivise more efficient usage of existing property, a surcharge on second, empty and offshore-owned homes would be introduced, as well as on plots of land that received council planning permission yet have been left vacant by developers. The policy is revenue neutral – raising the same amount of money for the Treasury as the scrapped taxes currently do.
To maintain the important democratic link between local expenditure and local taxation, Fairer Share recommends that the 0.48 per cent rate should consist of two components. A fixed national rate (0.32 per cent) which would go to central government for redistribution and an initial floating local rate (0.16 per cent) which would go straight to the local authority and could subsequently be moved up or down by that authority. In this way local authorities retain flexibility over taxation and voters can still judge them on value for money.
And importantly, this approach includes the complete abolition of stamp duty land tax (SDLT) on owner-occupied residential property.
What's the point if we need to raise more tax, if it is revenue-neutral?
I'm also puzzled, becasue council tax is a modified version of a poll tax mitigated somewhat by the need to allow for single vs multiple occupiers. This new tax goes the other way - very hostile to the typical one or two oldies in an expensive SE England house - like Mrs May's so-called dementia tax, very unwelcome to the Tory party member demographic. It's\ so against the sustained Tory policy in recent yeats of pampering such folk in the tax system (e.g. on IHT, and allowances for various kinds of income) that I am startled. Is Mr Sunak being encouraged to wreck his own chances of becoming PM? Or is this being leaked by someone else with a motive?
Saves half a billion quid in admin fees.
Indeed, but for the councils - not central government. Unless further cuts arte planned for support to local gmt.
I don't have a major problem with the principle of shifting property taxes to the value of the property but it should be done by local councils not nationwide otherwise London and the SE in particular will be hard hit.
It would also stop local councils being forced to raise the funds they spent through council tax and reduce local accountability
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
Paid by whom? And how would the property value be determined?
Very similar idea about 10 paras down in a piece by Kevin Holinrake MP on Con Home last September. Slightly more sophisticated, in fact.
In place of the administrative challenge of council tax, in which properties are taxed through a confusing and distorting system of bands and exemptions, the PPT would apply a single rate of tax – 0.48 per cent of property value – to all homes. Owners rather than tenants would be responsible for the tax, removing over 8.7 million households from property tax altogether and saving councils an annual £400 million in administrative costs.
To incentivise more efficient usage of existing property, a surcharge on second, empty and offshore-owned homes would be introduced, as well as on plots of land that received council planning permission yet have been left vacant by developers. The policy is revenue neutral – raising the same amount of money for the Treasury as the scrapped taxes currently do.
To maintain the important democratic link between local expenditure and local taxation, Fairer Share recommends that the 0.48 per cent rate should consist of two components. A fixed national rate (0.32 per cent) which would go to central government for redistribution and an initial floating local rate (0.16 per cent) which would go straight to the local authority and could subsequently be moved up or down by that authority. In this way local authorities retain flexibility over taxation and voters can still judge them on value for money.
And importantly, this approach includes the complete abolition of stamp duty land tax (SDLT) on owner-occupied residential property.
What's the point if we need to raise more tax, if it is revenue-neutral?
I'm also puzzled, becasue council tax is a modified version of a poll tax mitigated somewhat by the need to allow for single vs multiple occupiers. This new tax goes the other way - very hostile to the typical one or two oldies in an expensive SE England house - like Mrs May's so-called dementia tax, very unwelcome to the Tory party member demographic. It's\ so against the sustained Tory policy in recent yeats of pampering such folk in the tax system (e.g. on IHT, and allowances for various kinds of income) that I am startled. Is Mr Sunak being encouraged to wreck his own chances of becoming PM? Or is this being leaked by someone else with a motive?
Saves half a billion quid in admin fees.
Indeed, but for the councils - not central government. Unless further cuts arte planned for support to local gmt.
Central government ends up on the hook for local government expenditure. If local government saves money that saves central government money, whether it be from cutting by that much - or being under less pressure to increase expenditure by that much. Same thing, different way of getting there.
Also worth adding that the home counties will be the big winner in the boundary review and consequently see a lot of boundary changes (could make it harder in some cases to know if Lab or LDs will be the main challenger to the Tories):
Oxon - gains 1 Bucks+MK - gain 1 Hants+Berks - gain 1 E and W Sussex - gain 1 Kent - gains 1 Surrey - gains 1 Beds+Herts - gain 1 Cambs - gains 1 Norfolk+Suffolk - gain 1
I think this is the first day this year when there hasn't been at least one terrifying or apocalyptic news story
OF course the news is still relentlessly grim but there's nothing shocking and new, not today.
A sign of things to come? Or a false dawn?
Your astrologer should of course have told you all about the changes next week will bring.
"Your astrologer" - I rather love you for that phrase - Astrologers like Dentists. Personally I can't employ these folk because my Alchemist has asked me not to.
What is PB if it not a running astrological commentary?
Well, if we are looking for doomster predictions, then I've got one.
Rotherham. Bentley / Doncaster. Fishlake.
The poor sods are just about back in their houses after months and months out. Flooded out and then a pandemic slowing down the repairs.
The forecast for Tue/Wed is for continuous heavy rain, falling on top of the snow fields of the Pennines.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
Paid by whom? And how would the property value be determined?
Very similar idea about 10 paras down in a piece by Kevin Holinrake MP on Con Home last September. Slightly more sophisticated, in fact.
In place of the administrative challenge of council tax, in which properties are taxed through a confusing and distorting system of bands and exemptions, the PPT would apply a single rate of tax – 0.48 per cent of property value – to all homes. Owners rather than tenants would be responsible for the tax, removing over 8.7 million households from property tax altogether and saving councils an annual £400 million in administrative costs.
To incentivise more efficient usage of existing property, a surcharge on second, empty and offshore-owned homes would be introduced, as well as on plots of land that received council planning permission yet have been left vacant by developers. The policy is revenue neutral – raising the same amount of money for the Treasury as the scrapped taxes currently do.
To maintain the important democratic link between local expenditure and local taxation, Fairer Share recommends that the 0.48 per cent rate should consist of two components. A fixed national rate (0.32 per cent) which would go to central government for redistribution and an initial floating local rate (0.16 per cent) which would go straight to the local authority and could subsequently be moved up or down by that authority. In this way local authorities retain flexibility over taxation and voters can still judge them on value for money.
And importantly, this approach includes the complete abolition of stamp duty land tax (SDLT) on owner-occupied residential property.
What's the point if we need to raise more tax, if it is revenue-neutral?
I'm also puzzled, becasue council tax is a modified version of a poll tax mitigated somewhat by the need to allow for single vs multiple occupiers. This new tax goes the other way - very hostile to the typical one or two oldies in an expensive SE England house - like Mrs May's so-called dementia tax, very unwelcome to the Tory party member demographic. It's\ so against the sustained Tory policy in recent yeats of pampering such folk in the tax system (e.g. on IHT, and allowances for various kinds of income) that I am startled. Is Mr Sunak being encouraged to wreck his own chances of becoming PM? Or is this being leaked by someone else with a motive?
Saves half a billion quid in admin fees.
Indeed, but for the councils - not central government. Unless further cuts arte planned for support to local gmt.
I don't have a major problem with the principle of shifting property taxes to the value of the property but it should be done by local councils not nationwide otherwise London and the SE in particular will be hard hit.
It would also stop local councils being forced to raise the funds they spent through council tax and reduce local accountability
It's a wealth tax - and if you live down south you've either done well out of house price inflation or bought into it.
Either way - it's the best option to raise money so live with it.
And if it isn't not designed to raise money the other option is council tax revaluations and that's going to be far more painful for the Government.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
I've actually come round to this one over time because I think asset wealth is undertaxed, and income overtaxed, and we need to broaden the tax base. I have red lines. No-one should be taxed out of their home, for example, and I'd have discounts for those unable to work or living by themselves.
I think par is 500k or so. At that level council tax = 0.5% wealth tax, roughly. However, if you have a £1.5m home in London, of course, it's going to hurt.
One way to avoid that is simply to band the rate to begin with, and let a future Labour Government do the dirty, or simply phase it in over 5 years +.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
And it's likely that if you can't afford it, it will just be a charge on the house repayable on death / sale of the property.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
You could argue it's not fair how people who happen to live in London have experienced such a big bonus in terms of the value of their property over the last 40 years or so compared to elsewhere in the UK.
Happen to "own" in London, not "live" in London. Most of us are shafted by the high house prices.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
The other part of the package would be abolition of Stamp Duty.
Would that balance it out for you?
No. It's centralising council tax and then redistributing it so Londoners and people in the SE end up giving up yet another subsidy to the rest of the country.
I'm betting on the tories winning big next time. It brings me no pleasure but they will.
Brexit is fine. A few hiccups* but basically it has gone far more smoothly than I expected so far. And our stunning vaccination success will see covid largely eliminated from the UK by the autumn with our citizens free to travel the world.
Boris will take the credit.
* If Dura Ace is around, yes I prefer the American version. Hiccough just looks silly.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
Paid by whom? And how would the property value be determined?
Very similar idea about 10 paras down in a piece by Kevin Holinrake MP on Con Home last September. Slightly more sophisticated, in fact.
In place of the administrative challenge of council tax, in which properties are taxed through a confusing and distorting system of bands and exemptions, the PPT would apply a single rate of tax – 0.48 per cent of property value – to all homes. Owners rather than tenants would be responsible for the tax, removing over 8.7 million households from property tax altogether and saving councils an annual £400 million in administrative costs.
To incentivise more efficient usage of existing property, a surcharge on second, empty and offshore-owned homes would be introduced, as well as on plots of land that received council planning permission yet have been left vacant by developers. The policy is revenue neutral – raising the same amount of money for the Treasury as the scrapped taxes currently do.
To maintain the important democratic link between local expenditure and local taxation, Fairer Share recommends that the 0.48 per cent rate should consist of two components. A fixed national rate (0.32 per cent) which would go to central government for redistribution and an initial floating local rate (0.16 per cent) which would go straight to the local authority and could subsequently be moved up or down by that authority. In this way local authorities retain flexibility over taxation and voters can still judge them on value for money.
And importantly, this approach includes the complete abolition of stamp duty land tax (SDLT) on owner-occupied residential property.
What's the point if we need to raise more tax, if it is revenue-neutral?
I'm also puzzled, becasue council tax is a modified version of a poll tax mitigated somewhat by the need to allow for single vs multiple occupiers. This new tax goes the other way - very hostile to the typical one or two oldies in an expensive SE England house - like Mrs May's so-called dementia tax, very unwelcome to the Tory party member demographic. It's\ so against the sustained Tory policy in recent yeats of pampering such folk in the tax system (e.g. on IHT, and allowances for various kinds of income) that I am startled. Is Mr Sunak being encouraged to wreck his own chances of becoming PM? Or is this being leaked by someone else with a motive?
Saves half a billion quid in admin fees.
Indeed, but for the councils - not central government. Unless further cuts arte planned for support to local gmt.
I don't have a major problem with the principle of shifting property taxes to the value of the property but it should be done by local councils not nationwide otherwise London and the SE in particular will be hard hit.
It would also stop local councils being forced to raise the funds they spent through council tax and reduce local accountability
It's a wealth tax - and if you live down south you've either done well out of house price inflation or bought into it.
Either way - it's the best option to raise money so live with it.
And if it isn't not designed to raise money the other option is council tax revaluations and that's going to be far more painful for the Government.
I would prefer council tax revaluations.
The tax should still be raised locally and local councils accountable for it
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
You'd need a sizeable implementation period before it could kick in. 3-5 years minimum. Allow people to redesign their lives without it causing craziness in the property market.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
I've actually come round to this one over time because I think asset wealth is undertaxed, and income overtaxed, and we need to broaden the tax base. I have red lines. No-one should be taxed out of their home, for example, and I'd have discounts for those unable to work or living by themselves.
I think par is 500k or so. At that level council tax = 0.5% wealth tax, roughly. However, if you have a £1.5m home in London, of course, it's going to hurt.
One way to avoid that is simply to band the rate to begin with, and let a future Labour Government do the dirty, or simply phase it in over 5 years +.
It should be phased in with a couple of years notice period, with the tax being paid by the owner of the property.
If someone has a major buy to let property portfolio then they have to pay for all their properties, which would then roll downhill onto the rents, but the tenants wouldn't be dealing with that tax anymore. It would need time to be introduced so that valuations can be sorted out, plus new rental agreements would likely need to be introduced to take into account the changes.
I'm betting on the tories winning big next time. It brings me no pleasure but they will.
Brexit is fine. A few hiccups but basically it has gone far more smoothly than I expected so far. And our stunning vaccination success will see covid largely eliminated from the UK by the autumn with our citizens free to travel the world.
Boris will take the credit.
On present polls I actually think it is quite likely the Tories will win a majority in England but Starmer will end up PM in a hung parliament thanks to SNP support
Kier Starmer will take us back into the Customs Union:
(1) His base will love it. (2) He can make an economic case for it. (3) He wants to use it to outflank the Tories on Unionism.
And he's already said as much.
By 2024 that would mean unwinding UK independent trade deals and potentially leaving the CPTPP, it's a non-starter. Honestly Starmer would be handing the Tories the 2024 election if anything like that is in the manifesto (and something like that would have to be, it's a huge change) as it reopens the Brexit debate which Labour have lost on time and again. It allows the Tories to get the band back together.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
PT's a troll tory fanboi, just yanking eferyone else's chain!
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
You could argue it's not fair how people who happen to live in London have experienced such a big bonus in terms of the value of their property over the last 40 years or so compared to elsewhere in the UK.
I have to live in my house, how do I profit from something going up in paper value terms?
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
Paid by whom? And how would the property value be determined?
Very similar idea about 10 paras down in a piece by Kevin Holinrake MP on Con Home last September. Slightly more sophisticated, in fact.
In place of the administrative challenge of council tax, in which properties are taxed through a confusing and distorting system of bands and exemptions, the PPT would apply a single rate of tax – 0.48 per cent of property value – to all homes. Owners rather than tenants would be responsible for the tax, removing over 8.7 million households from property tax altogether and saving councils an annual £400 million in administrative costs.
To incentivise more efficient usage of existing property, a surcharge on second, empty and offshore-owned homes would be introduced, as well as on plots of land that received council planning permission yet have been left vacant by developers. The policy is revenue neutral – raising the same amount of money for the Treasury as the scrapped taxes currently do.
To maintain the important democratic link between local expenditure and local taxation, Fairer Share recommends that the 0.48 per cent rate should consist of two components. A fixed national rate (0.32 per cent) which would go to central government for redistribution and an initial floating local rate (0.16 per cent) which would go straight to the local authority and could subsequently be moved up or down by that authority. In this way local authorities retain flexibility over taxation and voters can still judge them on value for money.
And importantly, this approach includes the complete abolition of stamp duty land tax (SDLT) on owner-occupied residential property.
What's the point if we need to raise more tax, if it is revenue-neutral?
I'm also puzzled, becasue council tax is a modified version of a poll tax mitigated somewhat by the need to allow for single vs multiple occupiers. This new tax goes the other way - very hostile to the typical one or two oldies in an expensive SE England house - like Mrs May's so-called dementia tax, very unwelcome to the Tory party member demographic. It's\ so against the sustained Tory policy in recent yeats of pampering such folk in the tax system (e.g. on IHT, and allowances for various kinds of income) that I am startled. Is Mr Sunak being encouraged to wreck his own chances of becoming PM? Or is this being leaked by someone else with a motive?
Stamp duty discourages people from trading down, resulting in inefficient use of the housing stock.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
You could argue it's not fair how people who happen to live in London have experienced such a big bonus in terms of the value of their property over the last 40 years or so compared to elsewhere in the UK.
I have to live in my house, how do I profit from something going up in paper value terms?
I'm betting on the tories winning big next time. It brings me no pleasure but they will.
Brexit is fine. A few hiccups but basically it has gone far more smoothly than I expected so far. And our stunning vaccination success will see covid largely eliminated from the UK by the autumn with our citizens free to travel the world.
Boris will take the credit.
On present polls I actually think it is quite likely the Tories will win a majority in England but Starmer will end up PM in a hung parliament thanks to SNP support
The tories don't need Scottish seats to win an outright majority. They never have.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
Damn, I finally completed the Get an Ocado Delivery task - took me a year. However it seems the whole game of life is bugged in that I'm not getting the honorary titles. These devs are crap!
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
You could argue it's not fair how people who happen to live in London have experienced such a big bonus in terms of the value of their property over the last 40 years or so compared to elsewhere in the UK.
I have to live in my house, how do I profit from something going up in paper value terms?
If an asset appreciates in value, it doesn't matter whether you choose to realise that in cash terms or not, you're still wealthier.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
I've actually come round to this one over time because I think asset wealth is undertaxed, and income overtaxed, and we need to broaden the tax base. I have red lines. No-one should be taxed out of their home, for example, and I'd have discounts for those unable to work or living by themselves.
I think par is 500k or so. At that level council tax = 0.5% wealth tax, roughly. However, if you have a £1.5m home in London, of course, it's going to hurt.
One way to avoid that is simply to band the rate to begin with, and let a future Labour Government do the dirty, or simply phase it in over 5 years +.
You've already added complexity with single person discounts etc...
A value tax on an asset that can't be worked is absolutely anti-conservative. I'm all for 2-3% tax value taxes on non-primary residences as those are investments that generate a return. My flat does nothing of the sort and any gain the price is simply eaten up by the gain in prices elsewhere should I decide to move.
Invested wealth should be taxed as that investment should be generating an income or capital gain, I live in my flat and taxing it is immoral. Just because I grew up in London it doesn't mean I should be penalised for it with a property tax that will be redistributive. At least with council tax I can live with the idea of the money being spent locally, even if it's wasted, at least Camden council are wasting it.
Kier Starmer will take us back into the Customs Union:
(1) His base will love it. (2) He can make an economic case for it. (3) He wants to use it to outflank the Tories on Unionism.
And he's already said as much.
By 2024 that would mean unwinding UK independent trade deals and potentially leaving the CPTPP, it's a non-starter. Honestly Starmer would be handing the Tories the 2024 election if anything like that is in the manifesto (and something like that would have to be, it's a huge change) as it reopens the Brexit debate which Labour have lost on time and again. It allows the Tories to get the band back together.
I'm not saying I agree with it, of course; I'm just identifying what I think his strategy would be. It might be ameliorated by simply aligning all our terms in our existing trade deals with the EU's CET, and then seeing if anyone has a problem with that and wants to renegotiate any of them. He'll do that *on top* of the existing TCA, thus, rather lawyerly and cleverly, "avoiding" reopening any of that. He might add some freer movement clauses for young people, business people, musicians etc. on top. He won't re-join the single market.
He will definitely do something on it. His base are pure anti-Brexit, now. He can't survive as leader unless he does.
It'd be like Cameron shrugging his shoulders over Lisbon when he took office post GE2010, and saying it's all history.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
They might, but they wouldn't vote Tory again.
Lunatic policy. This means everyone in London is going to vote Labour.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
Paid by whom? And how would the property value be determined?
Very similar idea about 10 paras down in a piece by Kevin Holinrake MP on Con Home last September. Slightly more sophisticated, in fact.
In place of the administrative challenge of council tax, in which properties are taxed through a confusing and distorting system of bands and exemptions, the PPT would apply a single rate of tax – 0.48 per cent of property value – to all homes. Owners rather than tenants would be responsible for the tax, removing over 8.7 million households from property tax altogether and saving councils an annual £400 million in administrative costs.
To incentivise more efficient usage of existing property, a surcharge on second, empty and offshore-owned homes would be introduced, as well as on plots of land that received council planning permission yet have been left vacant by developers. The policy is revenue neutral – raising the same amount of money for the Treasury as the scrapped taxes currently do.
To maintain the important democratic link between local expenditure and local taxation, Fairer Share recommends that the 0.48 per cent rate should consist of two components. A fixed national rate (0.32 per cent) which would go to central government for redistribution and an initial floating local rate (0.16 per cent) which would go straight to the local authority and could subsequently be moved up or down by that authority. In this way local authorities retain flexibility over taxation and voters can still judge them on value for money.
And importantly, this approach includes the complete abolition of stamp duty land tax (SDLT) on owner-occupied residential property.
What's the point if we need to raise more tax, if it is revenue-neutral?
I'm also puzzled, becasue council tax is a modified version of a poll tax mitigated somewhat by the need to allow for single vs multiple occupiers. This new tax goes the other way - very hostile to the typical one or two oldies in an expensive SE England house - like Mrs May's so-called dementia tax, very unwelcome to the Tory party member demographic. It's\ so against the sustained Tory policy in recent yeats of pampering such folk in the tax system (e.g. on IHT, and allowances for various kinds of income) that I am startled. Is Mr Sunak being encouraged to wreck his own chances of becoming PM? Or is this being leaked by someone else with a motive?
Stamp duty discourages people from trading down, resulting in inefficient use of the housing stock.
Downsizing/trading down looks much easier on paper than it actually is for two reasons. First, a nice three-bed house costs a lot, probably more than half of a nice six-bed house, and is in the sights of two sets of buyers: both up and coming youngies and downsizing oldies (the more of the latter the more you tweak things to encourage downsizing). Second, even a successful house move is up there with divorce and job loss as a stressful life event; the appetite for it falls sharply away as people get past the age of 60.
Kier Starmer will take us back into the Customs Union:
(1) His base will love it. (2) He can make an economic case for it. (3) He wants to use it to outflank the Tories on Unionism.
And he's already said as much.
Not a chance.
Labour might, but if they do it won't be Starmer, and the chances of them doing so are very small in the short to medium term.
There's an interview with him the other week where he strongly hinted this, but I can't find it.
Frankly if I were Starmer I would hold back on making any policy substantive announcements until at least 2022, maybe even 2023. Things have changed so fast so quickly that Labour need to see what the post Brexit and post Pandemic landscape looks like an then form proposals accordingly. If the mood shifts to in a more pro Europe direction I don’t think suggesting negotiation of a form of Customs Union with the EU is at all out of the question.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
You could argue it's not fair how people who happen to live in London have experienced such a big bonus in terms of the value of their property over the last 40 years or so compared to elsewhere in the UK.
I have to live in my house, how do I profit from something going up in paper value terms?
If an asset appreciates in value, it doesn't matter whether you choose to realise that in cash terms or not, you're still wealthier.
And what difference does it make to my everyday life? Can I sell shares in my house? Does my house increasing in value result in better dividends? Fuck off.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
They might, but they wouldn't vote Tory again.
Should tax policy just be set on what makes people vote Tory? If that's the only reason to do it, is it a good policy?
Its the worst form of Toryism that, like the "I'm alright Jack" NIMBYism that @IshmaelZ is a big fan of.
"We need to ensure we can object to new houses being built so that our house values stay high, don't want new homes being built which might mean people can afford to buy a home near us and not pay over the odds for ours instead - and don't you dare consider taxing us on the value of our home."
I have no time for that.
The good thing with this taxation then is that if house prices go down then not only do prospective buyers or tenants get a home for cheaper which is a good thing, but the existing owners get a tax cut too. Suddenly ever-escalating house prices tax the existing owners not just anyone looking to buy.
Property taxes work. Professor friends of mine in Princeton promptly downsize as soon as their kids leave.
That is what 2.39 per cent property tax does. NJ has one of the highest in the US. On a million pound property, that is an annual tax of £ 23,900.
It is an excellent idea from the Tory party -- but it won't get implemented for the same reasons as the so-called Dementia Tax never got implemented.
First, Labour will cynically attack it, even though property taxes are in general very redistributive. They will wheel out Baroness Bakewell to rabbit on about poor people like her who own million pound plus properties in North London.
Second, many Tories will quickly realise that it is against the interests of their own primarily affluent supporters, and they will attack it as well.
In fact, we can see this from reactions already on pb.com.
There is no way anything as radical as a Property Tax will get implemented in the UK.
Kier Starmer will take us back into the Customs Union:
(1) His base will love it. (2) He can make an economic case for it. (3) He wants to use it to outflank the Tories on Unionism.
And he's already said as much.
By 2024 that would mean unwinding UK independent trade deals and potentially leaving the CPTPP, it's a non-starter. Honestly Starmer would be handing the Tories the 2024 election if anything like that is in the manifesto (and something like that would have to be, it's a huge change) as it reopens the Brexit debate which Labour have lost on time and again. It allows the Tories to get the band back together.
Absolutely bang on.
The one policy KS will avoid like the plague is anything that looks, smells, walks or talks like being closer to the EU.
I'm betting on the tories winning big next time. It brings me no pleasure but they will.
Brexit is fine. A few hiccups but basically it has gone far more smoothly than I expected so far. And our stunning vaccination success will see covid largely eliminated from the UK by the autumn with our citizens free to travel the world.
Boris will take the credit.
On present polls I actually think it is quite likely the Tories will win a majority in England but Starmer will end up PM in a hung parliament thanks to SNP support
It is frankly pointless to make such predictions this far out,
I'm betting on the tories winning big next time. It brings me no pleasure but they will.
Brexit is fine. A few hiccups but basically it has gone far more smoothly than I expected so far. And our stunning vaccination success will see covid largely eliminated from the UK by the autumn with our citizens free to travel the world.
Boris will take the credit.
On present polls I actually think it is quite likely the Tories will win a majority in England but Starmer will end up PM in a hung parliament thanks to SNP support
The tories don't need Scottish seats to win an outright majority. They never have.
Wrong.
In February 1974, 1964 and 1950 the Tories won a majority in England but lost the election in the UK as a whole due to the Labour majority in Scotland and Wales.
On current polls the likeliest outcome is a hung Parliament and either a Labour + SNP government or a Tory + DUP government again. Though the DUP might go with Starmer and a softer Brexit this time who knows.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Kier Starmer will take us back into the Customs Union:
(1) His base will love it. (2) He can make an economic case for it. (3) He wants to use it to outflank the Tories on Unionism.
And he's already said as much.
Not a chance.
Labour might, but if they do it won't be Starmer, and the chances of them doing so are very small in the short to medium term.
There's an interview with him the other week where he strongly hinted this, but I can't find it.
Frankly if I were Starmer I would hold back on making any policy substantive announcements until at least 2022, maybe even 2023. Things have changed so fast so quickly that Labour need to see what the post Brexit and post Pandemic landscape looks like an then form proposals accordingly. If the mood shifts to in a more pro Europe direction I don’t think suggesting negotiation of a form of Customs Union with the EU is at all out of the question.
0.48% of property value would be amazing for me, around a £700 saving every year from my current council tax. It'd be even better for band A-Ders here and go down very well indeed in the red wall.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
You could argue it's not fair how people who happen to live in London have experienced such a big bonus in terms of the value of their property over the last 40 years or so compared to elsewhere in the UK.
I have to live in my house, how do I profit from something going up in paper value terms?
If an asset appreciates in value, it doesn't matter whether you choose to realise that in cash terms or not, you're still wealthier.
And what difference does it make to my everyday life? Can I sell shares in my house? Does my house increasing in value result in better dividends? Fuck off.
Just telling you how it is. You seem angry at the idea of you getting wealthier, which is odd.
Property taxes work. Professor friends of mine in Princeton promptly downsize as soon as their kids leave.
That is what 2.39 per cent property tax does. NJ has one of the highest in the US. On a million pound property, that is an annual tax of £ 23,900.
It is an excellent idea from the Tory party -- but it won't get implemented for the same reasons as the so-called Dementia Tax never got implemented.
First, Labour will cynically attack it, even though property taxes are in general very redistributive. They will wheel out Baroness Bakewell to rabbit on about poor people like her who own million pound plus properties in North London.
Second, many Tories will quickly realise that it is against the interests of their own primarily affluent supporters, and they will attack it as well.
In fact, we can see this from reactions already on pb.com.
There is no way anything as radical as a Property Tax will get implemented in the UK.
Mr Sunak is not stupid (presumably: I have no personal acquaintance with the gent).
Why is he wrecking his chances of succeeding Mr Johnson?
Kier Starmer will take us back into the Customs Union:
(1) His base will love it. (2) He can make an economic case for it. (3) He wants to use it to outflank the Tories on Unionism.
And he's already said as much.
By 2024 that would mean unwinding UK independent trade deals and potentially leaving the CPTPP, it's a non-starter. Honestly Starmer would be handing the Tories the 2024 election if anything like that is in the manifesto (and something like that would have to be, it's a huge change) as it reopens the Brexit debate which Labour have lost on time and again. It allows the Tories to get the band back together.
Absolutely bang on.
The one policy KS will avoid like the plague is anything that looks, smells, walks or talks like being closer to the EU.
If he does, he has lost the election immediately.
If the election were to be held in the next six months, absolutely, but it’s not until 2024 when we will be in a very different world.
I'm betting on the tories winning big next time. It brings me no pleasure but they will.
Brexit is fine. A few hiccups but basically it has gone far more smoothly than I expected so far. And our stunning vaccination success will see covid largely eliminated from the UK by the autumn with our citizens free to travel the world.
Boris will take the credit.
On present polls I actually think it is quite likely the Tories will win a majority in England but Starmer will end up PM in a hung parliament thanks to SNP support
The tories don't need Scottish seats to win an outright majority. They never have.
On current polls the likeliest outcome is a hung Parliament and either a Labour + SNP government or a Tory + DUP government again. Though the DUP might go with Starmer and a softer Brexit this time who knows.
Drivel.
See my post below. Taking current polling levels as an indicator of likely voting intention next election is absurd.
Labour should be 15 to 20 points in the lead at least if they were to have a prayer of winning next time. They aren't and they don't.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
They might, but they wouldn't vote Tory again.
Should tax policy just be set on what makes people vote Tory? If that's the only reason to do it, is it a good policy?
Its the worst form of Toryism that, like the "I'm alright Jack" NIMBYism that @IshmaelZ is a big fan of.
"We need to ensure we can object to new houses being built so that our house values stay high, don't want new homes being built which might mean people can afford to buy a home near us and not pay over the odds for ours instead - and don't you dare consider taxing us on the value of our home."
I have no time for that.
Do bugger off. My house is paid for, I intend to die in it and my children have quite enough money anyway. I don't give a toss what it is worth. You mustn't attribute to others the narrow material greed which clearly defines your own and your party's outlook on life.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Reason 1 of many why the replacement of Council tax is very unlikely to happen.
It puts safe Tory seats like Bmth West and Bmth East in play. Electoral suicide. Boris simply won't let it happen.
There might be some tinkering around the edges, but an asset tax that includes the principal home of individuals is morally questionable, and electorally disasterous.
Damn, I finally completed the Get an Ocado Delivery task - took me a year. However it seems the whole game of life is bugged in that I'm not getting the honorary titles. These devs are crap!
Lucky sod. I don't live that far from one, yet they don't deliver at all to my postcode. Obviously not Tory voting enough.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
You could argue it's not fair how people who happen to live in London have experienced such a big bonus in terms of the value of their property over the last 40 years or so compared to elsewhere in the UK.
I have to live in my house, how do I profit from something going up in paper value terms?
If an asset appreciates in value, it doesn't matter whether you choose to realise that in cash terms or not, you're still wealthier.
And what difference does it make to my everyday life? Can I sell shares in my house? Does my house increasing in value result in better dividends? Fuck off.
So home owners can encourage policies that ensure properties don't go up in value then, rather than NIMBYism to ensure they do taxing those who need to get on the ladder.
If people want to object to new housing getting built to ensure their houses are artificially inflated in price why shouldn't they pay for that? Why should the burden be entirely paid by those who are losing from the system instead of its winners?
0.48% of property value would be amazing for me, around a £700 saving every year from my current council tax. It'd be even better for band A-Ders here and go down very well indeed in the red wall.
I agree that it would be better for me and my wife, a saving of £500 per year. Not sure it would be fair on other people in bigger, more expensive houses though.
I have always thought an income tax to fund local councils would be better. It would make families with more than one wage earner contribute more, and also take the pressure off pensioners and unemployed. I would also have a second home charge outwith the income tax system as well.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
I've actually come round to this one over time because I think asset wealth is undertaxed, and income overtaxed, and we need to broaden the tax base. I have red lines. No-one should be taxed out of their home, for example, and I'd have discounts for those unable to work or living by themselves.
I think par is 500k or so. At that level council tax = 0.5% wealth tax, roughly. However, if you have a £1.5m home in London, of course, it's going to hurt.
One way to avoid that is simply to band the rate to begin with, and let a future Labour Government do the dirty, or simply phase it in over 5 years +.
You've already added complexity with single person discounts etc...
A value tax on an asset that can't be worked is absolutely anti-conservative. I'm all for 2-3% tax value taxes on non-primary residences as those are investments that generate a return. My flat does nothing of the sort and any gain the price is simply eaten up by the gain in prices elsewhere should I decide to move.
Invested wealth should be taxed as that investment should be generating an income or capital gain, I live in my flat and taxing it is immoral. Just because I grew up in London it doesn't mean I should be penalised for it with a property tax that will be redistributive. At least with council tax I can live with the idea of the money being spent locally, even if it's wasted, at least Camden council are wasting it.
There will definitely be all sorts of exemptions and qualifications - almost all taxes have them - the real world is simply too complicated for them not to do so.
I agree you could exempt the primary residence, but then it wouldn't be taxed at all if you scrapped council tax. It may be they have a rate with a "cap" with a maximum amount, whilst others do not, or the rateable value for the taxes purpose is discounted. Either way, I'd expect a Conservative Government to be reasonable about it in a way I think a future Labour one would be more assertive.
I doubt it will happen anyway. Local and property taxation destroys politicians and governments.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Then defend them, the idea of a property tax on primary residences is absolutely awful. Screw the landlords, not owner-occupiers, I've already paid ca. net 40% tax on my income.
This would be sticking it to all the people in the country who have worked hard and saved to own their own homes and telling us that the Tories aren't on our side, confirming what many of us already believe at the moment.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Then defend them, the idea of a property tax on primary residences is absolutely awful. Screw the landlords, not owner-occupiers, I've already paid ca. net 40% tax on my income.
This would be sticking it to all the people in the country who have worked hard and saved to own their own homes and telling us that the Tories aren't on our side, confirming what many of us already believe at the moment.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
They might, but they wouldn't vote Tory again.
Should tax policy just be set on what makes people vote Tory? If that's the only reason to do it, is it a good policy?
Its the worst form of Toryism that, like the "I'm alright Jack" NIMBYism that @IshmaelZ is a big fan of.
"We need to ensure we can object to new houses being built so that our house values stay high, don't want new homes being built which might mean people can afford to buy a home near us and not pay over the odds for ours instead - and don't you dare consider taxing us on the value of our home."
I have no time for that.
Do bugger off. My house is paid for, I intend to die in it and my children have quite enough money anyway. I don't give a toss what it is worth. You mustn't attribute to others the narrow material greed which clearly defines your own and your party's outlook on life.
Yes yours may be paid for so you're all right Jack.
But then you encourage and defend NIMBYism preventing the young from getting their own home built.
So you intend to occupy a home you live in that is all bought and paid for, you and your children have quite enough money, but god forbid that others have a house built for them. God forbid you pay half a percent of what your home is worth when the poorest are already paying 1% today.
You're selfish, selfish, selfish. All NIMBYs are, it is a hateful selfish creed.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Reason 1 of many why the replacement of Council tax is very unlikely to happen.
It puts safe Tory seats like Bmth West and Bmth East in play. Electoral suicide. Boris simply won't let it happen.
There might be some tinkering around the edges, but an asset tax that includes the principal home of individuals is morally questionable, and electorally disasterous.
What do you think of adding extra council tax bands, Band I and Band J?
I'm betting on the tories winning big next time. It brings me no pleasure but they will.
Brexit is fine. A few hiccups but basically it has gone far more smoothly than I expected so far. And our stunning vaccination success will see covid largely eliminated from the UK by the autumn with our citizens free to travel the world.
Boris will take the credit.
On present polls I actually think it is quite likely the Tories will win a majority in England but Starmer will end up PM in a hung parliament thanks to SNP support
The tories don't need Scottish seats to win an outright majority. They never have.
On current polls the likeliest outcome is a hung Parliament and either a Labour + SNP government or a Tory + DUP government again. Though the DUP might go with Starmer and a softer Brexit this time who knows.
Drivel.
See my post below. Taking current polling levels as an indicator of likely voting intention next election is absurd.
Labour should be 15 to 20 points in the lead at least if they were to have a prayer of winning next time. They aren't and they don't.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Reason 1 of many why the replacement of Council tax is very unlikely to happen.
It puts safe Tory seats like Bmth West and Bmth East in play. Electoral suicide. Boris simply won't let it happen.
There might be some tinkering around the edges, but an asset tax that includes the principal home of individuals is morally questionable, and electorally disasterous.
What do you think of adding extra council tax bands, Band I and Band J?
I'd rather that govt stop spaffing money up the wall and talk about tax cuts, rather than rises.
Grow the economy, increase the pie. That is the Conservative way.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Then defend them, the idea of a property tax on primary residences is absolutely awful. Screw the landlords, not owner-occupiers, I've already paid ca. net 40% tax on my income.
This would be sticking it to all the people in the country who have worked hard and saved to own their own homes and telling us that the Tories aren't on our side, confirming what many of us already believe at the moment.
I think it would split people. It'd be unpopular in London and parts of the South-East, but it would lead to tax cuts elsewhere around the country and more spending power.
This is the challenge the Conservatives have with their current voting coalition.
Yes, an example of the immunosenescence of the elderly that I mentioned earlier.
We don’t have a great deal of data from the clinical trials themselves on response in the over 80s, do we ? Comparative results from here and Israel will tell us if the government’s gamble on delaying the second doses was correct.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Reason 1 of many why the replacement of Council tax is very unlikely to happen.
It puts safe Tory seats like Bmth West and Bmth East in play. Electoral suicide. Boris simply won't let it happen.
There might be some tinkering around the edges, but an asset tax that includes the principal home of individuals is morally questionable, and electorally disasterous.
What do you think of adding extra council tax bands, Band I and Band J?
I can live with that, at least the money will be wasted locally.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Reason 1 of many why the replacement of Council tax is very unlikely to happen.
It puts safe Tory seats like Bmth West and Bmth East in play. Electoral suicide. Boris simply won't let it happen.
There might be some tinkering around the edges, but an asset tax that includes the principal home of individuals is morally questionable, and electorally disasterous.
What do you think of adding extra council tax bands, Band I and Band J?
I'd rather that govt stop spaffing money up the wall and talk about tax cuts, rather than rises.
Grow the economy, increase the pie. That is the Conservative way.
Tax rises are coming one way or another. The size of the hole we're in is ginormous.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Reason 1 of many why the replacement of Council tax is very unlikely to happen.
It puts safe Tory seats like Bmth West and Bmth East in play. Electoral suicide. Boris simply won't let it happen.
There might be some tinkering around the edges, but an asset tax that includes the principal home of individuals is morally questionable, and electorally disasterous.
What do you think of adding extra council tax bands, Band I and Band J?
I'd rather that govt stop spaffing money up the wall and talk about tax cuts, rather than rises.
Grow the economy, increase the pie. That is the Conservative way.
Tax rises are coming one way or another. The size of the hole we're in is ginormous.
I'm betting on the tories winning big next time. It brings me no pleasure but they will.
Brexit is fine. A few hiccups but basically it has gone far more smoothly than I expected so far. And our stunning vaccination success will see covid largely eliminated from the UK by the autumn with our citizens free to travel the world.
Boris will take the credit.
On present polls I actually think it is quite likely the Tories will win a majority in England but Starmer will end up PM in a hung parliament thanks to SNP support
The tories don't need Scottish seats to win an outright majority. They never have.
On current polls the likeliest outcome is a hung Parliament and either a Labour + SNP government or a Tory + DUP government again. Though the DUP might go with Starmer and a softer Brexit this time who knows.
Drivel.
See my post below. Taking current polling levels as an indicator of likely voting intention next election is absurd.
Labour should be 15 to 20 points in the lead at least if they were to have a prayer of winning next time. They aren't and they don't.
The tories will win a thumping majority.
Apart from pre 1997 and maybe 2001 Labour have never been 15 to 20 points ahead at this stage before they won most seats at a UK general election in the last 70 years so that is not true.
Labour does not need to win landslides of over 150 seats as they did in 1997 and 2001 to win too
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
The other part of the package would be abolition of Stamp Duty.
Would that balance it out for you?
No. It's centralising council tax and then redistributing it so Londoners and people in the SE end up giving up yet another subsidy to the rest of the country.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Then defend them, the idea of a property tax on primary residences is absolutely awful. Screw the landlords, not owner-occupiers, I've already paid ca. net 40% tax on my income.
This would be sticking it to all the people in the country who have worked hard and saved to own their own homes and telling us that the Tories aren't on our side, confirming what many of us already believe at the moment.
You're only getting screwed if you've been getting away with paying a much tinier percentage on bills than anyone else is. Why should taxes be so regressive?
Why is it acceptable to have a 0.8% tax in the North and a 0.2% tax in the South? Why shouldn't they be flat?
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Reason 1 of many why the replacement of Council tax is very unlikely to happen.
It puts safe Tory seats like Bmth West and Bmth East in play. Electoral suicide. Boris simply won't let it happen.
There might be some tinkering around the edges, but an asset tax that includes the principal home of individuals is morally questionable, and electorally disasterous.
The losers will certainly be far more unhappy than the winners are happy. Close to an iron rule of politics.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Then defend them, the idea of a property tax on primary residences is absolutely awful. Screw the landlords, not owner-occupiers, I've already paid ca. net 40% tax on my income.
This would be sticking it to all the people in the country who have worked hard and saved to own their own homes and telling us that the Tories aren't on our side, confirming what many of us already believe at the moment.
You're only getting screwed if you've been getting away with paying a much tinier percentage on bills than anyone else is. Why should taxes be so regressive?
Why is it acceptable to have a 0.8% tax in the North and a 0.2% tax in the South? Why shouldn't they be flat?
What an absolutely facile argument. The current council tax level isn't calculated as a % of the value of residential property. Nor are local government costs a function of the value of residential property.
0.48% of property value would be amazing for me, around a £700 saving every year from my current council tax. It'd be even better for band A-Ders here and go down very well indeed in the red wall.
I agree that it would be better for me and my wife, a saving of £500 per year. Not sure it would be fair on other people in bigger, more expensive houses though.
I have always thought an income tax to fund local councils would be better. It would make families with more than one wage earner contribute more, and also take the pressure off pensioners and unemployed. I would also have a second home charge outwith the income tax system as well.
A local income tax would penalise those who live in less affluent areas - or areas with a lot of retired people - because there will be fewer taxpayers, and yet council outgoings will be greater.
So someone in Barnsley will pay a higher income tax than someone in London.
The property tax is better from that point of view.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Then defend them, the idea of a property tax on primary residences is absolutely awful. Screw the landlords, not owner-occupiers, I've already paid ca. net 40% tax on my income.
This would be sticking it to all the people in the country who have worked hard and saved to own their own homes and telling us that the Tories aren't on our side, confirming what many of us already believe at the moment.
You're only getting screwed if you've been getting away with paying a much tinier percentage on bills than anyone else is. Why should taxes be so regressive?
Why is it acceptable to have a 0.8% tax in the North and a 0.2% tax in the South? Why shouldn't they be flat?
That's up to those councils to stop wasting so much money and cut council tax.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Reason 1 of many why the replacement of Council tax is very unlikely to happen.
It puts safe Tory seats like Bmth West and Bmth East in play. Electoral suicide. Boris simply won't let it happen.
There might be some tinkering around the edges, but an asset tax that includes the principal home of individuals is morally questionable, and electorally disasterous.
What do you think of adding extra council tax bands, Band I and Band J?
I can live with that, at least the money will be wasted locally.
I also support that policy. And Bands K and L. Means those in hugely expensive properties pay a fairer share.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Reason 1 of many why the replacement of Council tax is very unlikely to happen.
It puts safe Tory seats like Bmth West and Bmth East in play. Electoral suicide. Boris simply won't let it happen.
There might be some tinkering around the edges, but an asset tax that includes the principal home of individuals is morally questionable, and electorally disasterous.
The losers will certainly be far more unhappy than the winners are happy. Close to an iron rule of politics.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Reason 1 of many why the replacement of Council tax is very unlikely to happen.
It puts safe Tory seats like Bmth West and Bmth East in play. Electoral suicide. Boris simply won't let it happen.
There might be some tinkering around the edges, but an asset tax that includes the principal home of individuals is morally questionable, and electorally disasterous.
The losers will certainly be far more unhappy than the winners are happy. Close to an iron rule of politics.
Not having to pay Council Tax could certainly be very popular up here. It is the right thing to do, to make the policy fair and flat for all, and if the Tories don't do it then Labour certainly could offer it at the next election and sweep back to win back the North with policies like that.
According to the Sunday Times the Treasury is investigating scrapping stamp duty and council tax and replacing these with a simple annual tax of 0.48% of a property's value.
That's a tax on Londoners. If they do it the Tory party will lose my vote for a very, very long time.
It would hit a lot of elderly, asset-rich and cash poor in London certainly very hard.
Then they can downsize if they want. Supply and demand.
Like the Scottish fishermen who can move into another business if they want, hey? Supply and demand.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
That's not my purpose. My purpose is to debate politics, openly and honestly, with other politics nerds. I have no interest in reflecting the party and I don't take the party line, my opinions are my own.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
I'm thinking strategically too, or at least I think I am.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
Reason 1 of many why the replacement of Council tax is very unlikely to happen.
It puts safe Tory seats like Bmth West and Bmth East in play. Electoral suicide. Boris simply won't let it happen.
There might be some tinkering around the edges, but an asset tax that includes the principal home of individuals is morally questionable, and electorally disasterous.
The losers will certainly be far more unhappy than the winners are happy. Close to an iron rule of politics.
Not having to pay Council Tax could certainly be very popular up here. It is the right thing to do, to make the policy fair and flat for all, and if the Tories don't do it then Labour certainly could offer it at the next election and sweep back to win back the North with policies like that.
Property tax, if it's at 0.5% will be immensely popular in the north, as almost everyone will have a saving on their council tax and go down like cold sick in the south.
Comments
https://twitter.com/GuptaR_lab/status/1350131633966493702
https://twitter.com/GuptaR_lab/status/1350131637472919553
Labour might, but if they do it won't be Starmer, and the chances of them doing so are very small in the short to medium term.
Enough to make me wonder if there are reporting differences.
It would also stop local councils being forced to raise the funds they spent through council tax and reduce local accountability
Oxon - gains 1
Bucks+MK - gain 1
Hants+Berks - gain 1
E and W Sussex - gain 1
Kent - gains 1
Surrey - gains 1
Beds+Herts - gain 1
Cambs - gains 1
Norfolk+Suffolk - gain 1
Rotherham. Bentley / Doncaster. Fishlake.
The poor sods are just about back in their houses after months and months out. Flooded out and then a pandemic slowing down the repairs.
The forecast for Tue/Wed is for continuous heavy rain, falling on top of the snow fields of the Pennines.
This isn't going to end well.
Either way - it's the best option to raise money so live with it.
And if it isn't not designed to raise money the other option is council tax revaluations and that's going to be far more painful for the Government.
I think par is 500k or so. At that level council tax = 0.5% wealth tax, roughly. However, if you have a £1.5m home in London, of course, it's going to hurt.
One way to avoid that is simply to band the rate to begin with, and let a future Labour Government do the dirty, or simply phase it in over 5 years +.
If your purpose in posting here is to make the tory party look more attractive than it actually is, you do need to tone down the "fuck anybody who isn't me" vibe.
I am not a London homeowner, in case you were wondering.
Brexit is fine. A few hiccups* but basically it has gone far more smoothly than I expected so far. And our stunning vaccination success will see covid largely eliminated from the UK by the autumn with our citizens free to travel the world.
Boris will take the credit.
* If Dura Ace is around, yes I prefer the American version. Hiccough just looks silly.
The tax should still be raised locally and local councils accountable for it
If someone has a major buy to let property portfolio then they have to pay for all their properties, which would then roll downhill onto the rents, but the tenants wouldn't be dealing with that tax anymore. It would need time to be introduced so that valuations can be sorted out, plus new rental agreements would likely need to be introduced to take into account the changes.
His chances are surely based on being inoffensive to most rather than relying on whatever his base is.
I see no reason why tenants in the Northwest should be compelled by taxation to pay 1% of their properties value in Council Tax while owner occupiers in London can get away with paying just 0.2% of theirs. Do you care to justify it?
I'm not a fan of "progressive" taxation, but what we have now is positively regressive instead. A flat tax is fair, that people have gotten away without paying a flat tax for decades doesn't make introducing a flat tax unfair, it just means people haven't been paying their fair share.
A value tax on an asset that can't be worked is absolutely anti-conservative. I'm all for 2-3% tax value taxes on non-primary residences as those are investments that generate a return. My flat does nothing of the sort and any gain the price is simply eaten up by the gain in prices elsewhere should I decide to move.
Invested wealth should be taxed as that investment should be generating an income or capital gain, I live in my flat and taxing it is immoral. Just because I grew up in London it doesn't mean I should be penalised for it with a property tax that will be redistributive. At least with council tax I can live with the idea of the money being spent locally, even if it's wasted, at least Camden council are wasting it.
He will definitely do something on it. His base are pure anti-Brexit, now. He can't survive as leader unless he does.
It'd be like Cameron shrugging his shoulders over Lisbon when he took office post GE2010, and saying it's all history.
Bit like now!
https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2021-01-17/the-entire-welsh-village-thats-up-for-sale-for-the-same-price-as-a-london-flat
Its the worst form of Toryism that, like the "I'm alright Jack" NIMBYism that @IshmaelZ is a big fan of.
"We need to ensure we can object to new houses being built so that our house values stay high, don't want new homes being built which might mean people can afford to buy a home near us and not pay over the odds for ours instead - and don't you dare consider taxing us on the value of our home."
I have no time for that.
The good thing with this taxation then is that if house prices go down then not only do prospective buyers or tenants get a home for cheaper which is a good thing, but the existing owners get a tax cut too. Suddenly ever-escalating house prices tax the existing owners not just anyone looking to buy.
That is what 2.39 per cent property tax does. NJ has one of the highest in the US. On a million pound property, that is an annual tax of £ 23,900.
It is an excellent idea from the Tory party -- but it won't get implemented for the same reasons as the so-called Dementia Tax never got implemented.
First, Labour will cynically attack it, even though property taxes are in general very redistributive. They will wheel out Baroness Bakewell to rabbit on about poor people like her who own million pound plus properties in North London.
Second, many Tories will quickly realise that it is against the interests of their own primarily affluent supporters, and they will attack it as well.
In fact, we can see this from reactions already on pb.com.
There is no way anything as radical as a Property Tax will get implemented in the UK.
The one policy KS will avoid like the plague is anything that looks, smells, walks or talks like being closer to the EU.
If he does, he has lost the election immediately.
The tories will win a thumping majority next election.
In February 1974, 1964 and 1950 the Tories won a majority in England but lost the election in the UK as a whole due to the Labour majority in Scotland and Wales.
On current polls the likeliest outcome is a hung Parliament and either a Labour + SNP government or a Tory + DUP government again. Though the DUP might go with Starmer and a softer Brexit this time who knows.
I want broader property rights and capitalism defended long-term, and I simply see the current system as unsustainable.
This is a classic conservative case of lead mild reform now or suffer radical change later.
https://twitter.com/nytmike/status/1350748717897424896
It'd be even better for band A-Ders here and go down very well indeed in the red wall.
Why is he wrecking his chances of succeeding Mr Johnson?
See my post below. Taking current polling levels as an indicator of likely voting intention next election is absurd.
Labour should be 15 to 20 points in the lead at least if they were to have a prayer of winning next time. They aren't and they don't.
The tories will win a thumping majority.
It puts safe Tory seats like Bmth West and Bmth East in play. Electoral suicide. Boris simply won't let it happen.
There might be some tinkering around the edges, but an asset tax that includes the principal home of individuals is morally questionable, and electorally disasterous.
If people want to object to new housing getting built to ensure their houses are artificially inflated in price why shouldn't they pay for that? Why should the burden be entirely paid by those who are losing from the system instead of its winners?
I have always thought an income tax to fund local councils would be better. It would make families with more than one wage earner contribute more, and also take the pressure off pensioners and unemployed. I would also have a second home charge outwith the income tax system as well.
I agree you could exempt the primary residence, but then it wouldn't be taxed at all if you scrapped council tax. It may be they have a rate with a "cap" with a maximum amount, whilst others do not, or the rateable value for the taxes purpose is discounted. Either way, I'd expect a Conservative Government to be reasonable about it in a way I think a future Labour one would be more assertive.
I doubt it will happen anyway. Local and property taxation destroys politicians and governments.
This would be sticking it to all the people in the country who have worked hard and saved to own their own homes and telling us that the Tories aren't on our side, confirming what many of us already believe at the moment.
But then you encourage and defend NIMBYism preventing the young from getting their own home built.
So you intend to occupy a home you live in that is all bought and paid for, you and your children have quite enough money, but god forbid that others have a house built for them. God forbid you pay half a percent of what your home is worth when the poorest are already paying 1% today.
You're selfish, selfish, selfish. All NIMBYs are, it is a hateful selfish creed.
We have 2 polls this weekend.
Opinium according to Electoral Calculus would give Labour 286, Tories 276, SNP 58 and LDs 7, PC 4, Greens 1 and NI 18.
So Starmer would be PM with SNP confidence and supply.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1350534548061188097?s=20
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=37&LAB=41&LIB=6&Brexit=1&Green=4&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=20.5&SCOTLAB=20.5&SCOTLIB=5.5&SCOTBrexit=0&SCOTGreen=2.5&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=50.5&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019
Survation would give Tories 313, Labour 250, SNP 58 and LDs 6, PC 4, Greens 1 and NI 18.
So Boris would only stay PM with the support of the 8 DUP MPs and provided SF do not take their seats.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1350610776172752900?s=20
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=40&LAB=38&LIB=7&Brexit=1&Green=5&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=20.5&SCOTLAB=20.5&SCOTLIB=5.5&SCOTBrexit=0&SCOTGreen=2.5&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=50.5&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019
Grow the economy, increase the pie. That is the Conservative way.
This is the challenge the Conservatives have with their current voting coalition.
It's very difficult.
Comparative results from here and Israel will tell us if the government’s gamble on delaying the second doses was correct.
Labour does not need to win landslides of over 150 seats as they did in 1997 and 2001 to win too
Why is it acceptable to have a 0.8% tax in the North and a 0.2% tax in the South? Why shouldn't they be flat?
Close to an iron rule of politics.
So someone in Barnsley will pay a higher income tax than someone in London.
The property tax is better from that point of view.
Given how widespread covid is among footballers, I don't want to go anywhere them...
The most popular politicians almost always have no policies