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Biden: Europe’s last American – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    Germany's leader is not the leader of the free world. Biden will be from Wednesday.

    Germany is not big enough, the EU might be but does not have the will
    Well I look to Berlin not Washington these days for a steer on how I as a citizen of the free world should go about my business.

    And while I have you, let's just knock our bet on the head. £25 to a Good Cause. I give you 3 options. Mermaids. Jeremy Corbyn's new Peace & Fellowship project. Or the National Trust.

    No receipt required. I trust you 100%.
    I will make a payment to the NT
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Stocky said:

    This was picked up recently by Andrew Doyle and others. It has also been argued that gardeners who favour UK native plants for environmental reasons over exotic alternatives are racist.

    These and a plethora of other similar nut-job ideas are discussed in an excellent recent edition of Paxman`s "The Lock In" podcast with Doyle.
    Isn't everything racist now? Even your post commenting on this (and my reply) is probably racist, and evidence of our own inherent racism.

    I promise to flagellate myself appropriately for my sins later on.
    Being white is automatically racist according to some people.
    I hear that all the time.
    All a bit two edged though innit? If you think it is an important fact about Us that we Defeated Hitler (I am not saying it is important to you personally) it is surely also worth a mention that we developed and ran the North American slave trade pretty much single handedly. I would have thought that That was then, this is now was the right answer to both pro- and anti-national historicism, but you can't just have Churchill fighting on beaches and ignore all the other stuff.
    Two edged, yes. The "white is racist" trope is a hefty sword wielded by people on the right gripping its blade and waving it madly around for all to see. It looms much larger in the minds of those people than it does in reality. They brandish it then show us their bloodied hands and say look! see how they wound us!
    So when I say I hear it all the time, I mean that I hear it all the time from people who enjoy being the victim. That is, they are exactly the same as those people who such things in earnest.

    I guess there are some dogs that can't walk past a puddle without rolling in it.
    My goodness, that's some epic mental contortion you've got going on there. In your world, if you object to the hateful utterances of the more extreme wokeists, then that means you must be the one with the problem.

    Perhaps you could direct even the smallest part of your ire towards the many 'progressive' figures pushing this divisive rubbish? But no, that would never do.
    And right on cue, the puddle receives another visitor. Sit, Blue, sit. Roll over.

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    https://twitter.com/KenRoth/status/1350411407028871169

    China of course being on the UN human rights council...............
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Why did @Roy_G_Biv get banned?

    Was he a retread? I thought he might be tim
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited January 2021
    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Hmmm... “...smallest slur upon his own unit...implied praise of a rival...sharp retort...”. I see Malc’s back posting.
    Orwell obviously had no idea what he was talking about with regard to Scottish Nationalist's. No feeling of superiority over any nation whatsoever never mind within Scotland by Nationalist's.
    See below. Smallest slur on own unit? Check. Implied praise of a rival? Check? Sharp retort? Check. Orwell had it spot on if you ask me. Your anti-Englishness showed through magnificently in the below as well.



  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    David Herdson makes the interesting point that migration is changing the US cultural memory and therefore its strategic orientation. Isn't the same process likely to occur in Europe?

    No, and I'm far from clear that it's even happening in the US. The large section of America that descends from German and Italian immigrants did not lead to any real risk that the US would involve itself on the wrong side in WW2. The attempted importation of fascism into America in the late 1920s and early 1930s by those with links to Italy didn't fail because of a lack of Italians, but because America took a look at the ideology and didn't like it.
    As much as people feel a sentimentality towards an ancestor country, it doesn't necessarily translate into strategy.

    And, of course, often those who move from one country to another are cut from a different cloth to those they leave behind. And the immigrant experience further shapes you in new ways that diverge from the native experience.
    100%. Of the many and varied misunderstandings of HYUFD with regard to the US is his absolute commitment to the idea of monolithic ethnic voting blocs - to the extent he invented one for “English Americans”. Eisenhower’s family was from Karlsbrunn in the Saarland. Reading HYUFD you would think he should have been relieved of command for having dubious loyalty.
    Eisenhower was the President who humiliated Eden over Suez, English American Presidents like Bush and Clinton have been more supportive of and closer to the UK
    Eisenhower was a notably cooperative US senior commander in WW2 - even when he had the likes of Churchill and Montgomery to cope with (and Patton and Clark too, of course). And his Prsesident, Roosevelt, was also very cooperative. Just compare Admiral King.

    On your logic President Kennedy and President to be Biden were not/will not cooperate with what is left of the UK just cos they are of Irish extraction..

    And any future African-Ameridcan president would only cooperate with sub-Saharan Africa.

    Really??
    Biden as an Irish American made quite clear his loyalty to Ireland was stronger than his loyalty to the UK over the Irish border.

    Roosevelt as a Dutch American pressed the UK hard to end its Empire once the War was won.

    Eisenhower and Roosevelt were anti Nazi, that does not mean either were particularly pro British.

    The most pro British Presidents since WW2 were probably George W Bush and Bill Clinton, both English Americans.

    That does not mean other Presidents were particularly anti British, just they were the most Anglophile Presidents
  • Professor Tim Congdon:

    “The likelihood of US inflation exceeding 3pc is very, very high. In my view, it is more likely to be 5pc to 10pc when it peaks, probably before mid-2022,”

    Telegraph

    If so, and there have been many predictions of the return of inflation, then we're looking at higher interest rates.

    Thinking back a year or two it was widely accepted that another recession was due.

    I wonder if the 2020 has reset the economic cycle or if there is going to be a 'normal' recession soon.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    Germany's leader is not the leader of the free world. Biden will be from Wednesday.

    Germany is not big enough, the EU might be but does not have the will
    Well I look to Berlin not Washington these days for a steer on how I as a citizen of the free world should go about my business.

    And while I have you, let's just knock our bet on the head. £25 to a Good Cause. I give you 3 options. Mermaids. Jeremy Corbyn's new Peace & Fellowship project. Or the National Trust.

    No receipt required. I trust you 100%.
    I will make a payment to the NT
    Toby Young said we all had to ragequit the NT. Based patriots complied.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123
    edited January 2021
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    I went to school in the US for 2 years and spent the best 4 years of my career on exchange with the USN so I yield to nobody in my admiration and respect for the American people and the ideals of their nation.

    However, you'd have to be wilfully blind not see that it's heading for rapid and violently messy decline. The notion that everything's just going to go back to normal once they wheel Joey Sidegrin's bath chair into the Oval Office is nonsense.

    Europe and the UK in particular need to think about their strategic posture in a post America world because that's where we are heading at pace.
    We aren't heading for a post American world.

    We are heading for a world where the US is not the main superpower as it has been since the end of the Cold War but where China and maybe India join it as the key superpowers and that will still be the case by 2050
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Stocky said:

    This was picked up recently by Andrew Doyle and others. It has also been argued that gardeners who favour UK native plants for environmental reasons over exotic alternatives are racist.

    These and a plethora of other similar nut-job ideas are discussed in an excellent recent edition of Paxman`s "The Lock In" podcast with Doyle.
    Isn't everything racist now? Even your post commenting on this (and my reply) is probably racist, and evidence of our own inherent racism.

    I promise to flagellate myself appropriately for my sins later on.
    Being white is automatically racist according to some people.
    I hear that all the time.
    All a bit two edged though innit? If you think it is an important fact about Us that we Defeated Hitler (I am not saying it is important to you personally) it is surely also worth a mention that we developed and ran the North American slave trade pretty much single handedly. I would have thought that That was then, this is now was the right answer to both pro- and anti-national historicism, but you can't just have Churchill fighting on beaches and ignore all the other stuff.
    Two edged, yes. The "white is racist" trope is a hefty sword wielded by people on the right gripping its blade and waving it madly around for all to see. It looms much larger in the minds of those people than it does in reality. They brandish it then show us their bloodied hands and say look! see how they wound us!
    So when I say I hear it all the time, I mean that I hear it all the time from people who enjoy being the victim. That is, they are exactly the same as those people who such things in earnest.

    I guess there are some dogs that can't walk past a puddle without rolling in it.
    My goodness, that's some epic mental contortion you've got going on there. In your world, if you object to the hateful utterances of the more extreme wokeists, then that means you must be the one with the problem.

    Perhaps you could direct even the smallest part of your ire towards the many 'progressive' figures pushing this divisive rubbish? But no, that would never do.
    And right on cue, the puddle receives another visitor. Sit, Blue, sit. Roll over.

    Porterhouse blue incoming by the look of it.
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    David Herdson makes the interesting point that migration is changing the US cultural memory and therefore its strategic orientation. Isn't the same process likely to occur in Europe?

    No, and I'm far from clear that it's even happening in the US. The large section of America that descends from German and Italian immigrants did not lead to any real risk that the US would involve itself on the wrong side in WW2. The attempted importation of fascism into America in the late 1920s and early 1930s by those with links to Italy didn't fail because of a lack of Italians, but because America took a look at the ideology and didn't like it.
    As much as people feel a sentimentality towards an ancestor country, it doesn't necessarily translate into strategy.

    And, of course, often those who move from one country to another are cut from a different cloth to those they leave behind. And the immigrant experience further shapes you in new ways that diverge from the native experience.
    100%. Of the many and varied misunderstandings of HYUFD with regard to the US is his absolute commitment to the idea of monolithic ethnic voting blocs - to the extent he invented one for “English Americans”. Eisenhower’s family was from Karlsbrunn in the Saarland. Reading HYUFD you would think he should have been relieved of command for having dubious loyalty.
    Eisenhower was the President who humiliated Eden over Suez, English American Presidents like Bush and Clinton have been more supportive of and closer to the UK
    Eisenhower was a notably cooperative US senior commander in WW2 - even when he had the likes of Churchill and Montgomery to cope with (and Patton and Clark too, of course). And his Prsesident, Roosevelt, was also very cooperative. Just compare Admiral King.

    On your logic President Kennedy and President to be Biden were not/will not cooperate with what is left of the UK just cos they are of Irish extraction..

    And any future African-Ameridcan president would only cooperate with sub-Saharan Africa.

    Really??
    Biden as an Irish American made quite clear his loyalty to Ireland was stronger than his loyalty to the UK over the Irish border.

    Roosevelt as a Dutch American pressed the UK hard to end its Empire once the War was won.

    Eisenhower and Roosevelt were anti Nazi, that does not mean either were particularly pro British.

    The most pro British Presidents since WW2 were probably George W Bush and Bill Clinton, both English Americans.

    That does not mean other Presidents were particularly anti British, just they were the most Anglophile Presidents
    Was George W Bush more "English" than George HW Bush?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,996
    edited January 2021

    Scott_xP said:
    Yes, but it's important to realise that Orwell also wrote some pretty good stuff.
    Bet A4U man with a fleg in his profile is absolutely certain he's a patriot rather than a nationalist.
    "The smallest slur upon his own unit, or any implied praise of a rival organisation, fills him with uneasiness which he can only relieve by making some sharp retort."

    It's like he's met you.
    Well you haven't met me, so what are you blustering about?

    Just to settle it once and for all, are you a patriot or a nationalist, then I can have a clearly focussed lens through which to view your effusions?
  • All this happening 9 months too late...

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1350265800188436480?s=19
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited January 2021
    Uganda election;

    M7 wins.

    I did have him as a 1/100 shot...

    Decent performance from Bobbi Wine though, getting 35% of the vote.

    Next time around will be harder for M7 given the gigantic youth bulge. Median age in Ug is 16 years old.... M7 will have to either up the level of repression, or anoint a successor ready for the next elections.
  • DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Hmmm... “...smallest slur upon his own unit...implied praise of a rival...sharp retort...”. I see Malc’s back posting.
    Orwell obviously had no idea what he was talking about with regard to Scottish Nationalist's. No feeling of superiority over any nation whatsoever never mind within Scotland by Nationalist's.
    See below. Smallest slur on own unit? Check. Implied praise of a rival? Check? Sharp retort? Check. Orwell had it spot on if you ask me. Your anti-Englishness showed through magnificently in the below as well.



    Digging up something from December?
    Have you got all malc's posts saved somewhere?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    David Herdson makes the interesting point that migration is changing the US cultural memory and therefore its strategic orientation. Isn't the same process likely to occur in Europe?

    No, and I'm far from clear that it's even happening in the US. The large section of America that descends from German and Italian immigrants did not lead to any real risk that the US would involve itself on the wrong side in WW2. The attempted importation of fascism into America in the late 1920s and early 1930s by those with links to Italy didn't fail because of a lack of Italians, but because America took a look at the ideology and didn't like it.
    As much as people feel a sentimentality towards an ancestor country, it doesn't necessarily translate into strategy.

    And, of course, often those who move from one country to another are cut from a different cloth to those they leave behind. And the immigrant experience further shapes you in new ways that diverge from the native experience.
    100%. Of the many and varied misunderstandings of HYUFD with regard to the US is his absolute commitment to the idea of monolithic ethnic voting blocs - to the extent he invented one for “English Americans”. Eisenhower’s family was from Karlsbrunn in the Saarland. Reading HYUFD you would think he should have been relieved of command for having dubious loyalty.
    Eisenhower was the President who humiliated Eden over Suez, English American Presidents like Bush and Clinton have been more supportive of and closer to the UK
    Eisenhower was a notably cooperative US senior commander in WW2 - even when he had the likes of Churchill and Montgomery to cope with (and Patton and Clark too, of course). And his Prsesident, Roosevelt, was also very cooperative. Just compare Admiral King.

    On your logic President Kennedy and President to be Biden were not/will not cooperate with what is left of the UK just cos they are of Irish extraction..

    And any future African-Ameridcan president would only cooperate with sub-Saharan Africa.

    Really??
    Biden as an Irish American made quite clear his loyalty to Ireland was stronger than his loyalty to the UK over the Irish border.

    Roosevelt as a Dutch American pressed the UK hard to end its Empire once the War was won.

    Eisenhower and Roosevelt were anti Nazi, that does not mean either were particularly pro British.

    The most pro British Presidents since WW2 were probably George W Bush and Bill Clinton, both English Americans.

    That does not mean other Presidents were particularly anti British, just they were the most Anglophile Presidents
    Was George W Bush more "English" than George HW Bush?
    George HW was closer to Kohl when he came in, certainly than Thatcher who he saw as Reagan's key friend.

    He got on better with Major though. His son's closest ally of course was UK PM Tony Blair
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    David Herdson makes the interesting point that migration is changing the US cultural memory and therefore its strategic orientation. Isn't the same process likely to occur in Europe?

    No, and I'm far from clear that it's even happening in the US. The large section of America that descends from German and Italian immigrants did not lead to any real risk that the US would involve itself on the wrong side in WW2. The attempted importation of fascism into America in the late 1920s and early 1930s by those with links to Italy didn't fail because of a lack of Italians, but because America took a look at the ideology and didn't like it.
    As much as people feel a sentimentality towards an ancestor country, it doesn't necessarily translate into strategy.

    And, of course, often those who move from one country to another are cut from a different cloth to those they leave behind. And the immigrant experience further shapes you in new ways that diverge from the native experience.
    100%. Of the many and varied misunderstandings of HYUFD with regard to the US is his absolute commitment to the idea of monolithic ethnic voting blocs - to the extent he invented one for “English Americans”. Eisenhower’s family was from Karlsbrunn in the Saarland. Reading HYUFD you would think he should have been relieved of command for having dubious loyalty.
    Eisenhower was the President who humiliated Eden over Suez, English American Presidents like Bush and Clinton have been more supportive of and closer to the UK
    Eisenhower was a notably cooperative US senior commander in WW2 - even when he had the likes of Churchill and Montgomery to cope with (and Patton and Clark too, of course). And his Prsesident, Roosevelt, was also very cooperative. Just compare Admiral King.

    On your logic President Kennedy and President to be Biden were not/will not cooperate with what is left of the UK just cos they are of Irish extraction..

    And any future African-Ameridcan president would only cooperate with sub-Saharan Africa.

    Really??
    Biden as an Irish American made quite clear his loyalty to Ireland was stronger than his loyalty to the UK over the Irish border.

    Roosevelt as a Dutch American pressed the UK hard to end its Empire once the War was won.

    Eisenhower and Roosevelt were anti Nazi, that does not mean either were particularly pro British.

    The most pro British Presidents since WW2 were probably George W Bush and Bill Clinton, both English Americans.

    That does not mean other Presidents were particularly anti British, just they were the most Anglophile Presidents
    Was George W Bush more "English" than George HW Bush?
    George HW was closer to Kohl when he came in, certainly than Thatcher who he saw as Reagan's key friend.

    He got on better with Major though. His son's closest ally of course was UK PM Tony Blair
    Not what I asked. You're seeing things through the prism of supposed national origin. Since W is the son of HW, how come HW was less a friend to the UK than Clinton? Are you saying W isn't really HW's son? Or is there more to it than your potted theory?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209
    Tres said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    I went to school in the US for 2 years and spent the best 4 years of my career on exchange with the USN so I yield to nobody in my admiration and respect for the American people and the ideals of their nation.

    However, you'd have to be wilfully blind not see that it's heading for rapid and violently messy decline. The notion that everything's just going to go back to normal once they wheel Joey Sidegrin's bath chair into the Oval Office is nonsense.

    Europe and the UK in particular need to think about their strategic posture in a post America world because that's where we are heading at pace.
    I do think the "healing" notion is farfetched when one side is flirting with the fash and won't accept a clear election result.

    But I'm a bit more optimistic than you are. They need a new and inclusive American Dream not based on white supremacy or imperialism or rapacious dog eat dog capitalism. Joe won't be driving this - no way - but he might just unlock the garage.
    Got to stop with the steal shit before we can start with the heal bit.
    Exactly! - that needs to go word for word into Uncle Joe's Inauguration Address.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881
    edited January 2021

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Hmmm... “...smallest slur upon his own unit...implied praise of a rival...sharp retort...”. I see Malc’s back posting.
    Orwell obviously had no idea what he was talking about with regard to Scottish Nationalist's. No feeling of superiority over any nation whatsoever never mind within Scotland by Nationalist's.
    See below. Smallest slur on own unit? Check. Implied praise of a rival? Check? Sharp retort? Check. Orwell had it spot on if you ask me. Your anti-Englishness showed through magnificently in the below as well.



    Digging up something from December?
    Have you got all malc's posts saved somewhere?
    Also -

    "Smallest slur on own unit? Check. Implied praise of a rival? Check? Sharp retort? Check."

    is absolutely the norm on PB - even if the unit is, say, those of us engaged in that highly respectable activity of railway modelling. It's not specific to being a Scottish independista, or a British nationalist.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    HYUFD said:
    Yuk. What a load of waffle.

    It’s this geezers ten years in office that gave us Brexit, praising the opportunities of globalisation without tackling its downsides and the UKs decline. Tough on Brexit tough on the causes of Brexit tough on this mans waffle.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Stocky said:

    This was picked up recently by Andrew Doyle and others. It has also been argued that gardeners who favour UK native plants for environmental reasons over exotic alternatives are racist.

    These and a plethora of other similar nut-job ideas are discussed in an excellent recent edition of Paxman`s "The Lock In" podcast with Doyle.
    Isn't everything racist now? Even your post commenting on this (and my reply) is probably racist, and evidence of our own inherent racism.

    I promise to flagellate myself appropriately for my sins later on.
    Being white is automatically racist according to some people.
    I hear that all the time.
    All a bit two edged though innit? If you think it is an important fact about Us that we Defeated Hitler (I am not saying it is important to you personally) it is surely also worth a mention that we developed and ran the North American slave trade pretty much single handedly. I would have thought that That was then, this is now was the right answer to both pro- and anti-national historicism, but you can't just have Churchill fighting on beaches and ignore all the other stuff.
    Two edged, yes. The "white is racist" trope is a hefty sword wielded by people on the right gripping its blade and waving it madly around for all to see. It looms much larger in the minds of those people than it does in reality. They brandish it then show us their bloodied hands and say look! see how they wound us!
    So when I say I hear it all the time, I mean that I hear it all the time from people who enjoy being the victim. That is, they are exactly the same as those people who such things in earnest.

    I guess there are some dogs that can't walk past a puddle without rolling in it.
    My goodness, that's some epic mental contortion you've got going on there. In your world, if you object to the hateful utterances of the more extreme wokeists, then that means you must be the one with the problem.

    Perhaps you could direct even the smallest part of your ire towards the many 'progressive' figures pushing this divisive rubbish? But no, that would never do.
    And right on cue, the puddle receives another visitor. Sit, Blue, sit. Roll over.

    Porterhouse blue incoming by the look of it.
    That's Fenland Tech. Mr Blue would be mortified at the thought.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,354
    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Hmmm... “...smallest slur upon his own unit...implied praise of a rival...sharp retort...”. I see Malc’s back posting.
    Orwell obviously had no idea what he was talking about with regard to Scottish Nationalist's. No feeling of superiority over any nation whatsoever never mind within Scotland by Nationalist's.
    See below. Smallest slur on own unit? Check. Implied praise of a rival? Check? Sharp retort? Check. Orwell had it spot on if you ask me. Your anti-Englishness showed through magnificently in the below as well.



    Only in the fevered imagination of a Little Englander. Put your tank top on and go out for a walk, clear the bigotry out of your mind.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    This was picked up recently by Andrew Doyle and others. It has also been argued that gardeners who favour UK native plants for environmental reasons over exotic alternatives are racist.

    These and a plethora of other similar nut-job ideas are discussed in an excellent recent edition of Paxman`s "The Lock In" podcast with Doyle.
    Isn't everything racist now? Even your post commenting on this (and my reply) is probably racist, and evidence of our own inherent racism.

    I promise to flagellate myself appropriately for my sins later on.
    The problem with these bad faith actors who turn everything into something that is steeped in racism is it actually switches most people to oh f##k off mode and gives cover to proper racists to say look at that, see its all nonsense.
    The cover is ineffective because most of the people who react to every reported instance of woke by going "look at that, see, it's all nonsense" are proper racists.
    I disagree, instead they are the right wing version of the people who say being white is racist. Snowflakes, blowing up what one academic says into something that bothers them so much they say it stops people looking at racism objectively.

    Some people are idiots, whether on the right or left, those who get overly worked up by the idiots and assume people on the other side are all like that have a lot in common with each other.

    In addition, racism is such a poorly defined word with a plethora of different meanings, this language difficulty is one of the key problems that stops sensible debate from developing beyond two sides talking but not listening.
    It's easy enough to recognise when you see it. I agree the word can be misused - and that's bad and counterproductive when it is - but racism is not imo over diagnosed in society. Quite the reverse.
    Part of the problem is the pejorative implication in using the term "racism", or "racist". The words have become so loaded that rather than furthering discussion they halt and entrench it.

    When people say "all white people are racist" it just switches people off. What is really meant is that everybody has preconceptions, and these are often driven by appearance. By examining our assumptions, and acknowledging them, we can bypass them and form a more mature understanding of an individual, and their experiences.

    We live in a culture where the norms have been set by hundreds of years of history, and that history has generally been presented as the history and experience of Anglocentric, male and aristocratic people. Hence our cultural assumptions are somewhat discordant with the lived experience of a much more diverse population, including not only other ethnicities, but women, working class and other marginalised people.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Hmmm... “...smallest slur upon his own unit...implied praise of a rival...sharp retort...”. I see Malc’s back posting.
    Orwell obviously had no idea what he was talking about with regard to Scottish Nationalist's. No feeling of superiority over any nation whatsoever never mind within Scotland by Nationalist's.
    See below. Smallest slur on own unit? Check. Implied praise of a rival? Check? Sharp retort? Check. Orwell had it spot on if you ask me. Your anti-Englishness showed through magnificently in the below as well.



    Digging up something from December?
    Have you got all malc's posts saved somewhere?
    Also -

    "Smallest slur on own unit? Check. Implied praise of a rival? Check? Sharp retort? Check."

    is absolutely the norm on PB - even if the unit is, say, those of us engaged in that highly respectable activity of railway modelling. It's not specific to being a Scottish independista, or a British nationalist.
    I'm not alleging Scot Nats are unique. Malc is.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,354

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Hmmm... “...smallest slur upon his own unit...implied praise of a rival...sharp retort...”. I see Malc’s back posting.
    Orwell obviously had no idea what he was talking about with regard to Scottish Nationalist's. No feeling of superiority over any nation whatsoever never mind within Scotland by Nationalist's.
    See below. Smallest slur on own unit? Check. Implied praise of a rival? Check? Sharp retort? Check. Orwell had it spot on if you ask me. Your anti-Englishness showed through magnificently in the below as well.



    Digging up something from December?
    Have you got all malc's posts saved somewhere?
    He regularly stalks me despite saying he would ignore me yonks ago.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    This is links to an informative article, and is also the header to a very informative thread on the situation with worrying viral variant, and Manaus.

    https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1350425513790238723
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    Germany's leader is not the leader of the free world. Biden will be from Wednesday.

    Germany is not big enough, the EU might be but does not have the will
    Well I look to Berlin not Washington these days for a steer on how I as a citizen of the free world should go about my business.

    You can seriously say that after the vehicle emissions scandal ???
    Well I was being serious so that would be a Yes. I don't demand perfection in my leaders of the free world.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited January 2021
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    This was picked up recently by Andrew Doyle and others. It has also been argued that gardeners who favour UK native plants for environmental reasons over exotic alternatives are racist.

    These and a plethora of other similar nut-job ideas are discussed in an excellent recent edition of Paxman`s "The Lock In" podcast with Doyle.
    Isn't everything racist now? Even your post commenting on this (and my reply) is probably racist, and evidence of our own inherent racism.

    I promise to flagellate myself appropriately for my sins later on.
    The problem with these bad faith actors who turn everything into something that is steeped in racism is it actually switches most people to oh f##k off mode and gives cover to proper racists to say look at that, see its all nonsense.
    The cover is ineffective because most of the people who react to every reported instance of woke by going "look at that, see, it's all nonsense" are proper racists.
    I disagree, instead they are the right wing version of the people who say being white is racist. Snowflakes, blowing up what one academic says into something that bothers them so much they say it stops people looking at racism objectively.

    Some people are idiots, whether on the right or left, those who get overly worked up by the idiots and assume people on the other side are all like that have a lot in common with each other.

    In addition, racism is such a poorly defined word with a plethora of different meanings, this language difficulty is one of the key problems that stops sensible debate from developing beyond two sides talking but not listening.
    It's easy enough to recognise when you see it. I agree the word can be misused - and that's bad and counterproductive when it is - but racism is not imo over diagnosed in society. Quite the reverse.

    When people say "all white people are racist" it just switches people off. What is really meant is that everybody has preconceptions, and these are often driven by appearance.
    .
    They people should say that, not complain that the first switches people off. There's a reason people don't stick with stupid slogans or summaries even if the intended point is a good one, but instead reformulate things.

    I think people are complex enough to take your final paragraph and understand how our historical cultural assumptions can continue to have an impact.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,866

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    Germany's leader is not the leader of the free world. Biden will be from Wednesday.

    Germany is not big enough, the EU might be but does not have the will
    Well I look to Berlin not Washington these days for a steer on how I as a citizen of the free world should go about my business.

    You can seriously say that after the vehicle emissions scandal ???
    And the EU's toadying up to China?

    Merkel got on stage with Xi to denounce free trading America defending itself against Chinese trade practices. The idea that anyone should be taking their cue's from Germany is laughable.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,354
    HYUFD said:
    WOW , unbounded talent on that list for sure. I could put up a donkey and it would be 1/100 immediately.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881
    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Hmmm... “...smallest slur upon his own unit...implied praise of a rival...sharp retort...”. I see Malc’s back posting.
    Orwell obviously had no idea what he was talking about with regard to Scottish Nationalist's. No feeling of superiority over any nation whatsoever never mind within Scotland by Nationalist's.
    See below. Smallest slur on own unit? Check. Implied praise of a rival? Check? Sharp retort? Check. Orwell had it spot on if you ask me. Your anti-Englishness showed through magnificently in the below as well.



    Digging up something from December?
    Have you got all malc's posts saved somewhere?
    He regularly stalks me despite saying he would ignore me yonks ago.
    Hello, Malcy. Hope it's still not icy over your side - thawing here at last. And pheasant to cook with shallots and celeriac and carrots for dinner tonight.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712
    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    Germany's leader is not the leader of the free world. Biden will be from Wednesday.

    Germany is not big enough, the EU might be but does not have the will
    Well I look to Berlin not Washington these days for a steer on how I as a citizen of the free world should go about my business.

    And while I have you, let's just knock our bet on the head. £25 to a Good Cause. I give you 3 options. Mermaids. Jeremy Corbyn's new Peace & Fellowship project. Or the National Trust.

    No receipt required. I trust you 100%.
    I will make a payment to the NT
    Toby Young said we all had to ragequit the NT. Based patriots complied.
    Yes, apparently explaining the history of their properties was a crime against British history, or something.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    Germany's leader is not the leader of the free world. Biden will be from Wednesday.

    Germany is not big enough, the EU might be but does not have the will
    Well I look to Berlin not Washington these days for a steer on how I as a citizen of the free world should go about my business.

    You can seriously say that after the vehicle emissions scandal ???
    Well I was being serious so that would be a Yes. I don't demand perfection in my leaders of the free world.
    Or decency it seems.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yuk. What a load of waffle.

    It’s this geezers ten years in office that gave us Brexit, praising the opportunities of globalisation without tackling its downsides and the UKs decline. Tough on Brexit tough on the causes of Brexit tough on this mans waffle.
    Off topic

    Whatever Blair's faults and there were many, and I understand the succession states immigration issue, which I don't necessarily agree with, the notion that Blair is the father of Brexit is for the birds.

    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is a Conservative enterprise.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    Germany's leader is not the leader of the free world. Biden will be from Wednesday.

    Germany is not big enough, the EU might be but does not have the will
    Well I look to Berlin not Washington these days for a steer on how I as a citizen of the free world should go about my business.

    You can seriously say that after the vehicle emissions scandal ???
    And the EU's toadying up to China?

    Merkel got on stage with Xi to denounce free trading America defending itself against Chinese trade practices. The idea that anyone should be taking their cue's from Germany is laughable.
    I don't think America is the best example of free trade.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881
    edited January 2021
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    WOW , unbounded talent on that list for sure. I could put up a donkey and it would be 1/100 immediately.
    I am not sure the unions will be happy with Mr Sarwar after his family company's [edit] policies reported at the time of the last leadership election (they plumped overwhelmingly for Mr Leonard, and [edit] therefore presumably not just cos he was a union person by career, and won him that election). He's also ibeen around rather a long time. And Ms Baillie and Mr Kelly have their problems. Interestingly Ms Lennon declined the party whip to vote against the SNP motion in favour of an independence referendum.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Dr. Foxy, in a contest between the USA and China, I'd pick the former every day of the week.

    Maintaining equidistance between them is a pathetic cop-out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Hmmm... “...smallest slur upon his own unit...implied praise of a rival...sharp retort...”. I see Malc’s back posting.
    Orwell obviously had no idea what he was talking about with regard to Scottish Nationalist's. No feeling of superiority over any nation whatsoever never mind within Scotland by Nationalist's.
    See below. Smallest slur on own unit? Check. Implied praise of a rival? Check? Sharp retort? Check. Orwell had it spot on if you ask me. Your anti-Englishness showed through magnificently in the below as well.



    Digging up something from December?
    Have you got all malc's posts saved somewhere?
    It’s a filthy job, but someone’s got to do it. :smile:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,091
    edited January 2021
    Good bit from Maher,

    The Tragedy of Trump Voters

    https://youtu.be/8_eeavqZ8V8
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,354
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Hmmm... “...smallest slur upon his own unit...implied praise of a rival...sharp retort...”. I see Malc’s back posting.
    Orwell obviously had no idea what he was talking about with regard to Scottish Nationalist's. No feeling of superiority over any nation whatsoever never mind within Scotland by Nationalist's.
    See below. Smallest slur on own unit? Check. Implied praise of a rival? Check? Sharp retort? Check. Orwell had it spot on if you ask me. Your anti-Englishness showed through magnificently in the below as well.



    Digging up something from December?
    Have you got all malc's posts saved somewhere?
    He regularly stalks me despite saying he would ignore me yonks ago.
    Hello, Malcy. Hope it's still not icy over your side - thawing here at last. And pheasant to cook with shallots and celeriac and carrots for dinner tonight.
    Hi Carnyx, rained most of the night but lovely and sunny just now. I am going to go out and spray the garden fence get the green off it prior to painting it in near future. Dinner sounds very nice indeed, enjoy.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    WOW , unbounded talent on that list for sure. I could put up a donkey and it would be 1/100 immediately.
    I expect Gordon Brown would dent the SNP hopes of an outright win
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,696
    Foxy said:

    When people say "all white people are racist" it just switches people off. What is really meant is that everybody has preconceptions, and these are often driven by appearance.

    That's not what contemporary Americans mean by it.

    https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/yes-all-white-people-are-racist-eefa97cc5605

    There are no exceptions to racism and White people. You’re born into that gang.
    [...]
    White people and non-White POC living as White who cannot acknowledge these truths are saying they don’t want to relinquish the power and privileges assigned to their places in the social/racial order set by White Supremacy.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209

    Stocky said:

    This was picked up recently by Andrew Doyle and others. It has also been argued that gardeners who favour UK native plants for environmental reasons over exotic alternatives are racist.

    These and a plethora of other similar nut-job ideas are discussed in an excellent recent edition of Paxman`s "The Lock In" podcast with Doyle.
    Isn't everything racist now? Even your post commenting on this (and my reply) is probably racist, and evidence of our own inherent racism.

    I promise to flagellate myself appropriately for my sins later on.
    The problem with these bad faith actors who turn everything into something that is steeped in racism is it actually switches most people to oh f##k off mode and gives cover to proper racists to say look at that, see its all nonsense.
    Indeed. However, I'm increasingly relaxed about this.

    People are finally waking up to it, and people in Government are starting to act on it, so I'm confident that common sense will eventually win through.
    Common sense is fine but my version of it says that racism is surely a bigger problem than false accusations thereof.

    Is it better that 100 racists go free of scrutiny than that 1 innocent antiwokie be falsely smeared?

    No. Not for me.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    Germany's leader is not the leader of the free world. Biden will be from Wednesday.

    Germany is not big enough, the EU might be but does not have the will
    Well I look to Berlin not Washington these days for a steer on how I as a citizen of the free world should go about my business.

    You can seriously say that after the vehicle emissions scandal ???
    Well I was being serious so that would be a Yes. I don't demand perfection in my leaders of the free world.
    Nor it seems are you bothered about them tolerating criminality, polluting the environment and ruining people's health.

    The sort of example the 'leaders of the free world' should be setting.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    WOW , unbounded talent on that list for sure. I could put up a donkey and it would be 1/100 immediately.
    I expect Gordon Brown would dent the SNP hopes of an outright win
    Tainted by his promises of federalism in and immediately after 2014. Instant attack line.

    Also why bother? He's always seen himself as a 'British' politician. Being the branch manager of a non-independent SLAB won't appeal to him. And he does deserve to enjoy his retirement.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yuk. What a load of waffle.

    It’s this geezers ten years in office that gave us Brexit, praising the opportunities of globalisation without tackling its downsides and the UKs decline. Tough on Brexit tough on the causes of Brexit tough on this mans waffle.
    Off topic

    Whatever Blair's faults and there were many, and I understand the succession states immigration issue, which I don't necessarily agree with, the notion that Blair is the father of Brexit is for the birds.

    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is a Conservative enterprise.
    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is the voters' enterprise.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052

    Dr. Foxy, in a contest between the USA and China, I'd pick the former every day of the week.

    Maintaining equidistance between them is a pathetic cop-out.

    I agree. America doesn't always make it easy for foreigners to choose it, but I always remember Churchill's saying that you can always rely on the Americans to do the right thing, once they have exhausted all the alternatives.

    I don't think anyone ever said that about Red China.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Stocky said:

    This was picked up recently by Andrew Doyle and others. It has also been argued that gardeners who favour UK native plants for environmental reasons over exotic alternatives are racist.

    These and a plethora of other similar nut-job ideas are discussed in an excellent recent edition of Paxman`s "The Lock In" podcast with Doyle.
    Isn't everything racist now? Even your post commenting on this (and my reply) is probably racist, and evidence of our own inherent racism.

    I promise to flagellate myself appropriately for my sins later on.
    Being white is automatically racist according to some people.
    I hear that all the time.
    All a bit two edged though innit? If you think it is an important fact about Us that we Defeated Hitler (I am not saying it is important to you personally) it is surely also worth a mention that we developed and ran the North American slave trade pretty much single handedly. I would have thought that That was then, this is now was the right answer to both pro- and anti-national historicism, but you can't just have Churchill fighting on beaches and ignore all the other stuff.
    Two edged, yes. The "white is racist" trope is a hefty sword wielded by people on the right gripping its blade and waving it madly around for all to see. It looms much larger in the minds of those people than it does in reality. They brandish it then show us their bloodied hands and say look! see how they wound us!
    So when I say I hear it all the time, I mean that I hear it all the time from people who enjoy being the victim. That is, they are exactly the same as those people who such things in earnest.

    I guess there are some dogs that can't walk past a puddle without rolling in it.
    My goodness, that's some epic mental contortion you've got going on there. In your world, if you object to the hateful utterances of the more extreme wokeists, then that means you must be the one with the problem.

    Perhaps you could direct even the smallest part of your ire towards the many 'progressive' figures pushing this divisive rubbish? But no, that would never do.
    And right on cue, the puddle receives another visitor. Sit, Blue, sit. Roll over.

    What wonderful irony, when the entire mechanism of wokeism is to condition people to automatically comply in the manner of Pavlov's dog once the magic words have been uttered. You can stuff it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    ping said:

    Uganda election;

    M7 wins.

    I did have him as a 1/100 shot...

    Decent performance from Bobbi Wine though, getting 35% of the vote.

    Next time around will be harder for M7 given the gigantic youth bulge. Median age in Ug is 16 years old.... M7 will have to either up the level of repression, or anoint a successor ready for the next elections.

    Museveni will not give in lightly, so up the level of repression, it is, I suspect.

    To think the Soviet Union and Apartheid South Africa were still going strong, and Reagan and Mrs Thatcher were a little over half way through their respective offices when Museveni took office.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    Germany's leader is not the leader of the free world. Biden will be from Wednesday.

    Germany is not big enough, the EU might be but does not have the will
    Well I look to Berlin not Washington these days for a steer on how I as a citizen of the free world should go about my business.

    You can seriously say that after the vehicle emissions scandal ???
    Well I was being serious so that would be a Yes. I don't demand perfection in my leaders of the free world.
    Nor it seems are you bothered about them tolerating criminality, polluting the environment and ruining people's health.

    The sort of example the 'leaders of the free world' should be setting.
    Where did I say I wasn't bothered? It's on the debit side of a ledger in net credit right now compared to other big boy nations.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yuk. What a load of waffle.

    It’s this geezers ten years in office that gave us Brexit, praising the opportunities of globalisation without tackling its downsides and the UKs decline. Tough on Brexit tough on the causes of Brexit tough on this mans waffle.
    Off topic

    Whatever Blair's faults and there were many, and I understand the succession states immigration issue, which I don't necessarily agree with, the notion that Blair is the father of Brexit is for the birds.

    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is a Conservative enterprise.
    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is the voters' enterprise.
    No it isn't. The political class chooses the dishes and cooks the meals. The voters just choose from a two-option menu, or go hungry.

    Blame can only be spread so thin.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712
    edited January 2021

    Foxy said:

    When people say "all white people are racist" it just switches people off. What is really meant is that everybody has preconceptions, and these are often driven by appearance.

    That's not what contemporary Americans mean by it.

    https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/yes-all-white-people-are-racist-eefa97cc5605

    There are no exceptions to racism and White people. You’re born into that gang.
    [...]
    White people and non-White POC living as White who cannot acknowledge these truths are saying they don’t want to relinquish the power and privileges assigned to their places in the social/racial order set by White Supremacy.
    I don't think that a fundamentally different view to what I said, though in much more hyperbolic language. Worth noting too that the history of race relations in the USA are rather different to our own shores.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yuk. What a load of waffle.

    It’s this geezers ten years in office that gave us Brexit, praising the opportunities of globalisation without tackling its downsides and the UKs decline. Tough on Brexit tough on the causes of Brexit tough on this mans waffle.
    Off topic

    Whatever Blair's faults and there were many, and I understand the succession states immigration issue, which I don't necessarily agree with, the notion that Blair is the father of Brexit is for the birds.

    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is a Conservative enterprise.
    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is the voters' enterprise.
    The Conservatives kindly facilitated the plebiscite for the lucky voters. When those voters declared their buyer's remorse via opinion poll after opinion poll, the Conservatives refused them (rightly or wrongly) a second bite of the cherry.

    My post was attempting to politely discount a witheringly idiotic notion set out by an earlier poster. I apologise for the cumbersome nature of my ripost.

    Anyway Brexit is done, long live a free and sovereign Conservative Britain.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    Germany's leader is not the leader of the free world. Biden will be from Wednesday.

    Germany is not big enough, the EU might be but does not have the will
    Well I look to Berlin not Washington these days for a steer on how I as a citizen of the free world should go about my business.

    You can seriously say that after the vehicle emissions scandal ???
    Well I was being serious so that would be a Yes. I don't demand perfection in my leaders of the free world.
    Nor it seems are you bothered about them tolerating criminality, polluting the environment and ruining people's health.

    The sort of example the 'leaders of the free world' should be setting.
    Where did I say I wasn't bothered? It's on the debit side of a ledger in net credit right now compared to other big boy nations.
    And we can all set up scorecards which result in the outcome we would like :wink:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yuk. What a load of waffle.

    It’s this geezers ten years in office that gave us Brexit, praising the opportunities of globalisation without tackling its downsides and the UKs decline. Tough on Brexit tough on the causes of Brexit tough on this mans waffle.
    Off topic

    Whatever Blair's faults and there were many, and I understand the succession states immigration issue, which I don't necessarily agree with, the notion that Blair is the father of Brexit is for the birds.

    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is a Conservative enterprise.
    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is the voters' enterprise.
    Yes but they won't blame themselves for its adverse consequences. Voters don't tend to do that.

    Once the pandemic is over and we face the long hard slog to pay for it handicapped by Brexit a funky and very danceable new song will be heard throughout the land -

    Don't blame it on the public.
    Don't blame it on the virus.
    Don't blame it on the tough times.
    Blame it on the Tories.

    Public ... Virus ... Tough Times ... TORIES.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    IshmaelZ said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yuk. What a load of waffle.

    It’s this geezers ten years in office that gave us Brexit, praising the opportunities of globalisation without tackling its downsides and the UKs decline. Tough on Brexit tough on the causes of Brexit tough on this mans waffle.
    Off topic

    Whatever Blair's faults and there were many, and I understand the succession states immigration issue, which I don't necessarily agree with, the notion that Blair is the father of Brexit is for the birds.

    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is a Conservative enterprise.
    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is the voters' enterprise.
    No it isn't. The political class chooses the dishes and cooks the meals. The voters just choose from a two-option menu, or go hungry.

    Blame can only be spread so thin.
    A much better reply than mine!
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    Foxy said:

    When people say "all white people are racist" it just switches people off. What is really meant is that everybody has preconceptions, and these are often driven by appearance.

    That's not what contemporary Americans mean by it.

    https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/yes-all-white-people-are-racist-eefa97cc5605

    There are no exceptions to racism and White people. You’re born into that gang.
    [...]
    White people and non-White POC living as White who cannot acknowledge these truths are saying they don’t want to relinquish the power and privileges assigned to their places in the social/racial order set by White Supremacy.
    Just one of the problems with that viewpoint is that it will encourage a "might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb" mentality among those who had racist tendencies in the older and more meaningful definition of the word.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    Germany's leader is not the leader of the free world. Biden will be from Wednesday.

    Germany is not big enough, the EU might be but does not have the will
    Well I look to Berlin not Washington these days for a steer on how I as a citizen of the free world should go about my business.

    You can seriously say that after the vehicle emissions scandal ???
    Well I was being serious so that would be a Yes. I don't demand perfection in my leaders of the free world.
    Or decency it seems.
    Says Farage voter.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893
    Afternoon all :)

    Thanks for the piece as always, @david_herdson . To be fair, similar pieces were written about both Trump and Obama in the run-up to taking office. Trump's well-publicised comments about the share of European defence being contributed by the Americans against the share contributed by the Europeans touched a nerve coming, as they did, at a time when many asked whether either Washington or a future Labour Government led by Jeremy Corbyn would stand by Article 5.

    As for Obama, there were fewer concerns about him on that score but a sense that as a man born in the Pacific, his focus would be more on that ocean than the Atlantic.

    The demise of American interest in Europe and the Atlantic has been well touted since 1989 but for all that has happened, NATO stands and for that we must all be hugely grateful.

    David is right in looking at future changes across Asia and I think it very likely east and south Asia will be the new areas of uncertainty as we move ahead. We've seen a recent flare-up between China and India, the Korean Peninsula simmers as always and for all the fine words, there's enough history between China and Russia to make you wonder if, one day, implausible as it may seem now, British and European troops might be deployed alongside Russian forces defending the long border with China in the vicinity of Mongolia.

    The China "question" is going to dominate the 21st Century - will it seek to form a defensive glacis in east Asia or will the confrontation be fought on the economic front? We've seen Chinese influence in Africa and Australia grow as it seeks to control sources of raw materials and it confronts in all directions.

    One option might be to try to contain China by a ring of alliances round its peripheries but that would be repeating the confrontational policies of past centuries which don't always end well.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,706
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    WOW , unbounded talent on that list for sure. I could put up a donkey and it would be 1/100 immediately.
    I expect Gordon Brown would dent the SNP hopes of an outright win
    Tainted by his promises of federalism in and immediately after 2014. Instant attack line.

    Also why bother? He's always seen himself as a 'British' politician. Being the branch manager of a non-independent SLAB won't appeal to him. And he does deserve to enjoy his retirement.
    One of Scottish Labour's primary problems is that they have almost disappeared from view. It's not only Leonard's fault, he has followed a few reasonably anonymous predecessors, but he took anonymity to a new level as evidenced by the continued mockery of what his name actually is.

    I don't think for a million years Brown is going to be the new SLab leader, but he's the only name on the list who would definitely deliver any cut-through, any reason to sit up and take notice of the party. And given his predisposition to endless Broonterventions from the sidelines he might as well at least try and intervene constructively. But it's neeeeever gonna happen.

    One day either Scotland will vote for independence, or the SNP will finally implode and/or fade from power, at which point Scottish Labour will probably find a new lease of life largely by default, but I can't see much of a proactive route back into the game for them.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    I went to school in the US for 2 years and spent the best 4 years of my career on exchange with the USN so I yield to nobody in my admiration and respect for the American people and the ideals of their nation.

    However, you'd have to be wilfully blind not see that it's heading for rapid and violently messy decline. The notion that everything's just going to go back to normal once they wheel Joey Sidegrin's bath chair into the Oval Office is nonsense.

    Europe and the UK in particular need to think about their strategic posture in a post America world because that's where we are heading at pace.
    I met up with a former colleague around the time of the millennium and we got to talking long-term trends. I said that by the end of the twenty-first century, it was my expectation that the USA would have been significantly overtaken as an economic power by both China and India.

    He got very, very aggressive at the notion that USA would not still be number one. He'd have taken it better if I'd said I'd slept with his wife.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712

    Dr. Foxy, in a contest between the USA and China, I'd pick the former every day of the week.

    Maintaining equidistance between them is a pathetic cop-out.

    I lived in America for 5 years and have visited many times on business and pleasure. I only briefly visited mainland China 30 years ago. Of the 2 countries I have no doubt which I would prefer to live in.

    However, where I differ is that I do not think that there is a contest between USA or China, so the concept of equidistance doesn't enter the realm. In other words, I will not choose when I reject the framing of the question.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yuk. What a load of waffle.

    It’s this geezers ten years in office that gave us Brexit, praising the opportunities of globalisation without tackling its downsides and the UKs decline. Tough on Brexit tough on the causes of Brexit tough on this mans waffle.
    Off topic

    Whatever Blair's faults and there were many, and I understand the succession states immigration issue, which I don't necessarily agree with, the notion that Blair is the father of Brexit is for the birds.

    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is a Conservative enterprise.
    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is the voters' enterprise.
    The Conservatives kindly facilitated the plebiscite for the lucky voters. When those voters declared their buyer's remorse via opinion poll after opinion poll, the Conservatives refused them (rightly or wrongly) a second bite of the cherry.

    My post was attempting to politely discount a witheringly idiotic notion set out by an earlier poster. I apologise for the cumbersome nature of my ripost.

    Anyway Brexit is done, long live a free and sovereign Conservative Britain.
    “ a witheringly idiotic notion set out by an earlier poster‘

    You mean me.

    You seriously think Blair and Brown are not to blame for Brexit?

    But the evidence I gave you, there he was wittering on about the opportunities for UK from globalisation, without a single thing to recognise and tackle its downsides is fact, is it not?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,354

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    WOW , unbounded talent on that list for sure. I could put up a donkey and it would be 1/100 immediately.
    I expect Gordon Brown would dent the SNP hopes of an outright win
    LOL, good joke Owls. We could only hope for such a miracle, no way we could be so lucky.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yuk. What a load of waffle.

    It’s this geezers ten years in office that gave us Brexit, praising the opportunities of globalisation without tackling its downsides and the UKs decline. Tough on Brexit tough on the causes of Brexit tough on this mans waffle.
    Off topic

    Whatever Blair's faults and there were many, and I understand the succession states immigration issue, which I don't necessarily agree with, the notion that Blair is the father of Brexit is for the birds.

    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is a Conservative enterprise.
    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is the voters' enterprise.
    The Conservatives kindly facilitated the plebiscite for the lucky voters. When those voters declared their buyer's remorse via opinion poll after opinion poll, the Conservatives refused them (rightly or wrongly) a second bite of the cherry.

    My post was attempting to politely discount a witheringly idiotic notion set out by an earlier poster. I apologise for the cumbersome nature of my ripost.

    Anyway Brexit is done, long live a free and sovereign Conservative Britain.
    “ a witheringly idiotic notion set out by an earlier poster‘

    You mean me.

    You seriously think Blair and Brown are not to blame for Brexit?

    But the evidence I gave you, there he was wittering on about the opportunities for UK from globalisation, without a single thing to recognise and tackle its downsides is fact, is it not?
    No they were not.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yuk. What a load of waffle.

    It’s this geezers ten years in office that gave us Brexit, praising the opportunities of globalisation without tackling its downsides and the UKs decline. Tough on Brexit tough on the causes of Brexit tough on this mans waffle.
    Off topic

    Whatever Blair's faults and there were many, and I understand the succession states immigration issue, which I don't necessarily agree with, the notion that Blair is the father of Brexit is for the birds.

    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is a Conservative enterprise.
    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is the voters' enterprise.
    And voters voted for it as they saw immigration taking their jobs or changing their area.

    As I've commented on here before at 12 noon on the day of the referendum I knew the result as a polling officer I knew rang me and told me that people who had never voted were voting.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yuk. What a load of waffle.

    It’s this geezers ten years in office that gave us Brexit, praising the opportunities of globalisation without tackling its downsides and the UKs decline. Tough on Brexit tough on the causes of Brexit tough on this mans waffle.
    Off topic

    Whatever Blair's faults and there were many, and I understand the succession states immigration issue, which I don't necessarily agree with, the notion that Blair is the father of Brexit is for the birds.

    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is a Conservative enterprise.
    Yep. Brexit = Tories = Brexit.

    No getting away from this. And neither should they want to. Your own farts always smell sweet.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yuk. What a load of waffle.

    It’s this geezers ten years in office that gave us Brexit, praising the opportunities of globalisation without tackling its downsides and the UKs decline. Tough on Brexit tough on the causes of Brexit tough on this mans waffle.
    Off topic

    Whatever Blair's faults and there were many, and I understand the succession states immigration issue, which I don't necessarily agree with, the notion that Blair is the father of Brexit is for the birds.

    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is a Conservative enterprise.
    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is the voters' enterprise.
    The Conservatives kindly facilitated the plebiscite for the lucky voters. When those voters declared their buyer's remorse via opinion poll after opinion poll, the Conservatives refused them (rightly or wrongly) a second bite of the cherry.

    My post was attempting to politely discount a witheringly idiotic notion set out by an earlier poster. I apologise for the cumbersome nature of my ripost.

    Anyway Brexit is done, long live a free and sovereign Conservative Britain.
    “ a witheringly idiotic notion set out by an earlier poster‘

    You mean me.

    You seriously think Blair and Brown are not to blame for Brexit?

    But the evidence I gave you, there he was wittering on about the opportunities for UK from globalisation, without a single thing to recognise and tackle its downsides is fact, is it not?
    Those who think Brexit protects themselves from the downsides of globalisation are going to be very rudely awakened!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,354
    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Hmmm... “...smallest slur upon his own unit...implied praise of a rival...sharp retort...”. I see Malc’s back posting.
    Orwell obviously had no idea what he was talking about with regard to Scottish Nationalist's. No feeling of superiority over any nation whatsoever never mind within Scotland by Nationalist's.
    See below. Smallest slur on own unit? Check. Implied praise of a rival? Check? Sharp retort? Check. Orwell had it spot on if you ask me. Your anti-Englishness showed through magnificently in the below as well.



    Digging up something from December?
    Have you got all malc's posts saved somewhere?
    It’s a filthy job, but someone’s got to do it. :smile:
    :D
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,091
    edited January 2021
    England Vaccination update...

    Total - 3,514,385
    First Dose - 3,090,058
    Second Dose - 424,327

    325k done in England "yesterday"....

    To infinity and beyond
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,354
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    WOW , unbounded talent on that list for sure. I could put up a donkey and it would be 1/100 immediately.
    I expect Gordon Brown would dent the SNP hopes of an outright win
    Tainted by his promises of federalism in and immediately after 2014. Instant attack line.

    Also why bother? He's always seen himself as a 'British' politician. Being the branch manager of a non-independent SLAB won't appeal to him. And he does deserve to enjoy his retirement.
    Carnyx, have to say I can think of more things he deserves for the harm he has done to Scotland.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    Vaccination update: my dad arrived at the centre 10 minutes early this morning and despite it being pretty busy was seen immediately. Very efficient. Probably a thousand people will be vaccinated there today he estimates.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    ping said:

    Uganda election;

    M7 wins.

    I did have him as a 1/100 shot...

    Decent performance from Bobbi Wine though, getting 35% of the vote.

    Next time around will be harder for M7 given the gigantic youth bulge. Median age in Ug is 16 years old.... M7 will have to either up the level of repression, or anoint a successor ready for the next elections.

    Museveni will not give in lightly, so up the level of repression, it is, I suspect.

    To think the Soviet Union and Apartheid South Africa were still going strong, and Reagan and Mrs Thatcher were a little over half way through their respective offices when Museveni took office.
    I agree, greater repression seems likely as he starts to lose his grip.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,091
    edited January 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    Vaccination update: my dad arrived at the centre 10 minutes early this morning and despite it being pretty busy was seen immediately. Very efficient. Probably a thousand people will be vaccinated there today he estimates.

    We are looking at over 350k for yesterday across UK.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,091
    edited January 2021
    No let-up, 500k / day by this time next week.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,091
    edited January 2021
    Facebook uses AI to predict if COVID-19 patients will need more care

    The social network said Friday it developed two AI models, one based on a single chest X-ray, and another from a series X-rays, that could help forecast if a patient infected by the coronavirus is likely to get worse. A third model predicts the amount of extra oxygen a COVID-19 patient might need. Facebook's AI models generally did a better job than a human when it came to forecasting up to four days in advance if a patient will need more intensive care resources.

    https://www.cnet.com/health/facebook-uses-ai-to-predict-if-covid-19-patients-will-need-more-care/#ftag=CAD590a51e

    Lazy reporting, as Facebook AI isn't really the "social network", its a bit like saying DeepMinds is a search engine company.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,354

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    WOW , unbounded talent on that list for sure. I could put up a donkey and it would be 1/100 immediately.
    I expect Gordon Brown would dent the SNP hopes of an outright win
    Tainted by his promises of federalism in and immediately after 2014. Instant attack line.

    Also why bother? He's always seen himself as a 'British' politician. Being the branch manager of a non-independent SLAB won't appeal to him. And he does deserve to enjoy his retirement.
    One of Scottish Labour's primary problems is that they have almost disappeared from view. It's not only Leonard's fault, he has followed a few reasonably anonymous predecessors, but he took anonymity to a new level as evidenced by the continued mockery of what his name actually is.

    I don't think for a million years Brown is going to be the new SLab leader, but he's the only name on the list who would definitely deliver any cut-through, any reason to sit up and take notice of the party. And given his predisposition to endless Broonterventions from the sidelines he might as well at least try and intervene constructively. But it's neeeeever gonna happen.

    One day either Scotland will vote for independence, or the SNP will finally implode and/or fade from power, at which point Scottish Labour will probably find a new lease of life largely by default, but I can't see much of a proactive route back into the game for them.
    If they stay on their current Union Jack route they will never be back. They need to become a real Scottish labour Party and have some policies for Scotland. Currently as an insipid branch office for British Labour they are justly reviled by the majority of people. You only need to listen to that clown Starmer to understand he knows nothing of Scotland and the idiots up here pushing his Tory lite tack are doomed.
  • England vaccinations 15/01

    First dose 320,894
    Second dose 3,817
    Total 324,711

    Cumulative
    First dose 3,090,058
    Second dose 424,327
    Total 3,514,385

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893
    I've had the pleasure of listening to two very different monologues this morning but both in their own way perceptive and interesting.

    First, Bill Maher on his returning Real Time show. Segments of it have been picked up by Fox News but unsurprisingly they are the ones that attack the Democrats especially in California. Maher has a right go at the Republicans too and his excoriation of both American parties is spot on. Unfortunately, and where Maher fails, it is long on diagnosis and short on treatment. Rather like David Cameron, the analysis of the problem is excellent but there's little or nothing on resolution. Maher rightly slams how California operates as a State and we all know about the exodus of people but how does California respond?

    Second, Tony Blair and his Chatham House Speech yesterday which is far and way the most solid analysis of post-Brexit Britain I've heard and the most important contribution to political debate since the 2019 GE. Now, I know a lot of people loath Blair primarily (but not exclusively) because of Iraq but the Chatham House speech is well worth a read. Unlike Maher, Blair starts fleshing out some solutions as well as indicating the problems. It's closer to my vision of the UK in the 2020s and, perhaps of greater interest, it looks at how both main parties (and the minor parties as well) need to re-define themselves for the rest of the 2020s and beyond.

    https://institute.global/tony-blair/tony-blair-post-brexit-britain-we-can-succeed-its-change-or-decline

    Both Labour and Conservative parties have always been coalitions of radicals and conservatives as Blair states and of course the radicals in both parties have more in common with each other than with the conservatives in their own ranks.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,706
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    WOW , unbounded talent on that list for sure. I could put up a donkey and it would be 1/100 immediately.
    I expect Gordon Brown would dent the SNP hopes of an outright win
    Tainted by his promises of federalism in and immediately after 2014. Instant attack line.

    Also why bother? He's always seen himself as a 'British' politician. Being the branch manager of a non-independent SLAB won't appeal to him. And he does deserve to enjoy his retirement.
    One of Scottish Labour's primary problems is that they have almost disappeared from view. It's not only Leonard's fault, he has followed a few reasonably anonymous predecessors, but he took anonymity to a new level as evidenced by the continued mockery of what his name actually is.

    I don't think for a million years Brown is going to be the new SLab leader, but he's the only name on the list who would definitely deliver any cut-through, any reason to sit up and take notice of the party. And given his predisposition to endless Broonterventions from the sidelines he might as well at least try and intervene constructively. But it's neeeeever gonna happen.

    One day either Scotland will vote for independence, or the SNP will finally implode and/or fade from power, at which point Scottish Labour will probably find a new lease of life largely by default, but I can't see much of a proactive route back into the game for them.
    If they stay on their current Union Jack route they will never be back. They need to become a real Scottish labour Party and have some policies for Scotland. Currently as an insipid branch office for British Labour they are justly reviled by the majority of people. You only need to listen to that clown Starmer to understand he knows nothing of Scotland and the idiots up here pushing his Tory lite tack are doomed.
    Can't disagree with that malcolm. But zero likelihood of it happening.

    Their attempts to out-Union the Scottish Conservatives do more damage to them each time and yet each time they try even harder than before. Truly, the definition of insanity.
  • England vaccinations 15/01

    First dose 320,894
    Second dose 3,817
    Total 324,711

    Cumulative
    First dose 3,090,058
    Second dose 424,327
    Total 3,514,385

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/

    Echoooooooooooo
  • Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    I went to school in the US for 2 years and spent the best 4 years of my career on exchange with the USN so I yield to nobody in my admiration and respect for the American people and the ideals of their nation.

    However, you'd have to be wilfully blind not see that it's heading for rapid and violently messy decline. The notion that everything's just going to go back to normal once they wheel Joey Sidegrin's bath chair into the Oval Office is nonsense.

    Europe and the UK in particular need to think about their strategic posture in a post America world because that's where we are heading at pace.
    I met up with a former colleague around the time of the millennium and we got to talking long-term trends. I said that by the end of the twenty-first century, it was my expectation that the USA would have been significantly overtaken as an economic power by both China and India.

    He got very, very aggressive at the notion that USA would not still be number one. He'd have taken it better if I'd said I'd slept with his wife.

    You probably shouldn't have put on that Alan Rickman/Hans Gruber drawl
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    .

    England vaccinations 15/01

    First dose 320,894
    Second dose 3,817
    Total 324,711

    Cumulative
    First dose 3,090,058
    Second dose 424,327
    Total 3,514,385

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/

    But we were told by the Independent that the govt had already failed to meet the target.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    "Up to half those offered vaccine in Birmingham covid hotspots refusing to have it
    Health chief stresses: 'This vaccine is safe and is only being offered to people at real risk of dying'

    Up to 50 per cent of vulnerable people in some of the worst-affected parts of Birmingham are declining the covid vaccines. Asian and black community leaders across Birmingham are being urged to help health chiefs share vaccine safety messages amid fears those most at risk of dying are holding back from getting protected."

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/up-half-those-offered-vaccine-19629960
  • ping said:

    Uganda election;

    M7 wins.

    I did have him as a 1/100 shot...

    Decent performance from Bobbi Wine though, getting 35% of the vote.

    Next time around will be harder for M7 given the gigantic youth bulge. Median age in Ug is 16 years old.... M7 will have to either up the level of repression, or anoint a successor ready for the next elections.

    Museveni will not give in lightly, so up the level of repression, it is, I suspect.

    To think the Soviet Union and Apartheid South Africa were still going strong, and Reagan and Mrs Thatcher were a little over half way through their respective offices when Museveni took office.
    Museveni as fit as a butcher's dog though.

    https://youtu.be/uDK2MZY1yUY
  • RobD said:

    .

    England vaccinations 15/01

    First dose 320,894
    Second dose 3,817
    Total 324,711

    Cumulative
    First dose 3,090,058
    Second dose 424,327
    Total 3,514,385

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/

    But we were told by the Independent that the govt had already failed to meet the target.
    Need to rethink the whole programme according to Newsnight.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,617
    edited January 2021

    England vaccinations 15/01

    First dose 320,894
    Second dose 3,817
    Total 324,711

    Cumulative
    First dose 3,090,058
    Second dose 424,327
    Total 3,514,385

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/

    Total doses

    11/01 140,411
    12/01 187,765
    13/01 248,177
    14/01 279,647
    15/01 324,711

    UK overall should be around 375k for yesterday.

    And the UK cumulative will now be over 4m.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited January 2021
    Congratulations and thanks, Mr Herdson. One of most thoughtful and forward-looking posts in a long while.

    While this is not guaranteed, I can envisage a world in which both the US (+Canada) and the UK pivot to a more Pacific- and Asia-facing stance - economically, politically and militarily (in the case of the US). With its major Atlantic allies preoccupied elsewhere, the EU really will need to rethink its security freeloading mindset.
  • I am surprised the bad weather hasn't hit vaccinations numbers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Andy_JS said:

    "Up to half those offered vaccine in Birmingham covid hotspots refusing to have it
    Health chief stresses: 'This vaccine is safe and is only being offered to people at real risk of dying'

    Up to 50 per cent of vulnerable people in some of the worst-affected parts of Birmingham are declining the covid vaccines. Asian and black community leaders across Birmingham are being urged to help health chiefs share vaccine safety messages amid fears those most at risk of dying are holding back from getting protected."

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/up-half-those-offered-vaccine-19629960

    A letter, signed by Liam Byrne (Lab, Hodge Hill), Andrew Mitchell (Cons, Sutton Coldfield) and Birmingham City Council leader Coun Ian Ward, asked for a full daily update on vaccination take-up - including a percentage breakdown by each vulnerable group, and "advance and transparent warning of any issues on the ground so we can take them up".

    Mr Byrne said today: "We urgently need the veil of silence to be lifted on this, because the health of some of the most vulnerable in the city is being threatened by the government deciding to gag our health chiefs. Their refusal to shine a light on the vaccination programme is now potentially putting lives at risk.

    "Our BAME inquiry (into the disproportionate level of deaths among Black and Asian residents) in the summer revealed that Covid has not hit everyone equally. It has hit our ethnic communities hardest, and now the Government appears to want to keep secret whether the vaccination programme is getting through to those who most need it."


    Is the government really trying to keep things secret about the vaccination programme? As one of the few successes it's had, it seems like they have been releasing lots of information about it. Anyone know the detail that is supposedly being withheld?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209
    edited January 2021
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    This was picked up recently by Andrew Doyle and others. It has also been argued that gardeners who favour UK native plants for environmental reasons over exotic alternatives are racist.

    These and a plethora of other similar nut-job ideas are discussed in an excellent recent edition of Paxman`s "The Lock In" podcast with Doyle.
    Isn't everything racist now? Even your post commenting on this (and my reply) is probably racist, and evidence of our own inherent racism.

    I promise to flagellate myself appropriately for my sins later on.
    The problem with these bad faith actors who turn everything into something that is steeped in racism is it actually switches most people to oh f##k off mode and gives cover to proper racists to say look at that, see its all nonsense.
    The cover is ineffective because most of the people who react to every reported instance of woke by going "look at that, see, it's all nonsense" are proper racists.
    I disagree, instead they are the right wing version of the people who say being white is racist. Snowflakes, blowing up what one academic says into something that bothers them so much they say it stops people looking at racism objectively.

    Some people are idiots, whether on the right or left, those who get overly worked up by the idiots and assume people on the other side are all like that have a lot in common with each other.

    In addition, racism is such a poorly defined word with a plethora of different meanings, this language difficulty is one of the key problems that stops sensible debate from developing beyond two sides talking but not listening.
    It's easy enough to recognise when you see it. I agree the word can be misused - and that's bad and counterproductive when it is - but racism is not imo over diagnosed in society. Quite the reverse.
    Part of the problem is the pejorative implication in using the term "racism", or "racist". The words have become so loaded that rather than furthering discussion they halt and entrench it.

    When people say "all white people are racist" it just switches people off. What is really meant is that everybody has preconceptions, and these are often driven by appearance. By examining our assumptions, and acknowledging them, we can bypass them and form a more mature understanding of an individual, and their experiences.

    We live in a culture where the norms have been set by hundreds of years of history, and that history has generally been presented as the history and experience of Anglocentric, male and aristocratic people. Hence our cultural assumptions are somewhat discordant with the lived experience of a much more diverse population, including not only other ethnicities, but women, working class and other marginalised people.
    Yes I agree with this. Racist is not a binary where on one side you're totally free of it and on the other you're David Duke or Donald Trump. OTOH its hard to describe and discuss its deep rooted existence in society without using the word. I personally wish people would not get so sensitive about it but it's understandable why they do. Often, I think, not because they are "guilty as charged" - of being strongly racist - but due to a reluctance to think deeply about something they feel is over egged and which in any case they feel has little to do with them. This is why I find the insight of White Privilege to be quite powerful and also useful. It brings it home. Makes it personal.
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 370
    Nigelb said:

    This is links to an informative article, and is also the header to a very informative thread on the situation with worrying viral variant, and Manaus.

    https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1350425513790238723

    It seems likely that the new Brazilian variant can escape both vaccine- and infection-induced immunity, and also that within a few months it will reach the UK.

    We are vaccinating millions of people per week now, so we will have the people in place to revaccinate the UK population very quickly. We will need to manufacture the new vaccines very quickly, in a few weeks. The plant and machinery required needs to be put in place now, as quickly as the Russians built T34 tanks in 1943.

    The regulatory approval needs to be super fast too. If new phase III trials are needed for the new vaccines they will be too late, as the virus could mutate again. Have the lessons yet been learnt from 2020? The only way to beat this virus with vaccines is through speed. If this fails, there will be multiple waves of variants over several years before the virus finally burns itself out.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    kinabalu said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yuk. What a load of waffle.

    It’s this geezers ten years in office that gave us Brexit, praising the opportunities of globalisation without tackling its downsides and the UKs decline. Tough on Brexit tough on the causes of Brexit tough on this mans waffle.
    Off topic

    Whatever Blair's faults and there were many, and I understand the succession states immigration issue, which I don't necessarily agree with, the notion that Blair is the father of Brexit is for the birds.

    Brexit, for good, or for ill, is a Conservative enterprise.
    Yep. Brexit = Tories = Brexit.

    No getting away from this. And neither should they want to. Your own farts always smell sweet.
    Off topic again...

    If Brexit is such a great enterprise, I can't work out why Conservatives want to share their victory with anyone else.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Now this is proper big news. The likely new leader of the free world. Who in 1950 would have thought Germany would hold that position in 2020? The times they are a changing, no question about it. On which topic I like the Header and especially the title - Europe's Last American. It's fading fast, the sense of kinship between us and the USA. I can vouch for this personally. I used to feel it, even quite recently, but now I don't. I remain fascinated by America but I look upon it as a strange and exotic land. Much of this is because of Trump but not all of it.
    I went to school in the US for 2 years and spent the best 4 years of my career on exchange with the USN so I yield to nobody in my admiration and respect for the American people and the ideals of their nation.

    However, you'd have to be wilfully blind not see that it's heading for rapid and violently messy decline. The notion that everything's just going to go back to normal once they wheel Joey Sidegrin's bath chair into the Oval Office is nonsense.

    Europe and the UK in particular need to think about their strategic posture in a post America world because that's where we are heading at pace.
    I met up with a former colleague around the time of the millennium and we got to talking long-term trends. I said that by the end of the twenty-first century, it was my expectation that the USA would have been significantly overtaken as an economic power by both China and India.

    He got very, very aggressive at the notion that USA would not still be number one. He'd have taken it better if I'd said I'd slept with his wife.

    You probably shouldn't have put on that Alan Rickman/Hans Gruber drawl
    I probably shouldn't have slept with his wife....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,696
    Friedrich Merz is a real piece of work. Having lost the leadership, he is asking Laschet to make him Finance Minister in the current government led by Angela Merkel.

    https://twitter.com/_FriedrichMerz/status/1350438086589763594
  • I am surprised the bad weather hasn't hit vaccinations numbers.

    Perhaps it has.

    In fact I'm certain it has though whether that is at the level of hundreds fewer or thousands fewer I don't know.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    WOW , unbounded talent on that list for sure. I could put up a donkey and it would be 1/100 immediately.
    I expect Gordon Brown would dent the SNP hopes of an outright win
    Tainted by his promises of federalism in and immediately after 2014. Instant attack line.

    Also why bother? He's always seen himself as a 'British' politician. Being the branch manager of a non-independent SLAB won't appeal to him. And he does deserve to enjoy his retirement.
    One of Scottish Labour's primary problems is that they have almost disappeared from view. It's not only Leonard's fault, he has followed a few reasonably anonymous predecessors, but he took anonymity to a new level as evidenced by the continued mockery of what his name actually is.

    I don't think for a million years Brown is going to be the new SLab leader, but he's the only name on the list who would definitely deliver any cut-through, any reason to sit up and take notice of the party. And given his predisposition to endless Broonterventions from the sidelines he might as well at least try and intervene constructively. But it's neeeeever gonna happen.

    One day either Scotland will vote for independence, or the SNP will finally implode and/or fade from power, at which point Scottish Labour will probably find a new lease of life largely by default, but I can't see much of a proactive route back into the game for them.

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    WOW , unbounded talent on that list for sure. I could put up a donkey and it would be 1/100 immediately.
    I expect Gordon Brown would dent the SNP hopes of an outright win
    Tainted by his promises of federalism in and immediately after 2014. Instant attack line.

    Also why bother? He's always seen himself as a 'British' politician. Being the branch manager of a non-independent SLAB won't appeal to him. And he does deserve to enjoy his retirement.
    One of Scottish Labour's primary problems is that they have almost disappeared from view. It's not only Leonard's fault, he has followed a few reasonably anonymous predecessors, but he took anonymity to a new level as evidenced by the continued mockery of what his name actually is.

    I don't think for a million years Brown is going to be the new SLab leader, but he's the only name on the list who would definitely deliver any cut-through, any reason to sit up and take notice of the party. And given his predisposition to endless Broonterventions from the sidelines he might as well at least try and intervene constructively. But it's neeeeever gonna happen.

    One day either Scotland will vote for independence, or the SNP will finally implode and/or fade from power, at which point Scottish Labour will probably find a new lease of life largely by default, but I can't see much of a proactive route back into the game for them.
    If they stay on their current Union Jack route they will never be back. They need to become a real Scottish labour Party and have some policies for Scotland. Currently as an insipid branch office for British Labour they are justly reviled by the majority of people. You only need to listen to that clown Starmer to understand he knows nothing of Scotland and the idiots up here pushing his Tory lite tack are doomed.
    Can't disagree with that malcolm. But zero likelihood of it happening.

    Their attempts to out-Union the Scottish Conservatives do more damage to them each time and yet each time they try even harder than before. Truly, the definition of insanity.
    Of course, the MSPs have a vested interest in that they - or some of them - are aspiring to the Imperial cursus honorum in the Imperial capital - via Commons to a peerage. It's not as if moving to the SNP will do any good in that respect, given SNP policies. And SKS in his desperate need to pander to the English voter all fired up with Tory propaganda about Scotch thieves in your pocket is not helping with his denial of a referendum. As Wendy Alexander - arguably the last really competent leader SLAB had before she was stabbed in the back - shows, one can want to have a referendum even if you don't believe in independence.

    And how about getting into bed with Mr Johnson and Mr Gove in the independence issue? It'll be SKS and Brexit again, only worse (because it also brings up Brexit which is increasingly toxic in Scotland).

    I suspect that puts them somewhat out of kilter with the membership as a whole, what is left of it after the SNP and Scottish Greens have taken large bites out of it. (And much more so with the voters too, But this is a leadership election.)

    Are the unions still involved like last time? If so, then perhaps scratch Mr Sarwar? If I had to bet, I'd go for Ms Lennon if I had to, but my gut feeling is some youngster is more likely to win, as soneone else suggested on PB the other day.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Just switched to Amazon Prime for the West Ham-Burnley match and up popped the "Adult content" warning.
This discussion has been closed.