First as in UK country in Europe to vaccinate all the oldies....
Apparently not, since we have a forty squiggillion people off the books. We're actually lagging behind France. A lad stacking the shelf at my local Co-op told me and, well, they would know.
You believe the official guess more then? Because that is all it is a guess. The truth lies between the two and there is evidence the official guess is wrong just on national insurance numbers issued.
It is a failure going back decades by both labour and tory governments we dont know how many entered and how many left
When I read your earlier claim, I laughed out loud. But then I got shushed by a voice in the cupboard. Opened it to check, and yes, there's a family living there I didn't even know about.
That's who's been easting my red-bag Doritos.
Why laugh I gave you a citation which backed what I said which was a supermarket had claimed there were more people.
The ons figure is bullshit and too low, the supermarket figure is bullshit and too high. Both are based on absolute guesswork. There are certainly more than 66 million here, there are certainly less than 80 million. The fact you only decry one claim is sad
Are they really based on the same level of guesswork?
The ons one is based on selected travellers into the country being given a questionaire to fill in at a handful of ports and airports. The answers they give are not checked. This is then extrapolated to all ports and airports to work out immigration and emigration figures. This has been widely reported and admitted.
How accurate do you believe that to be?
The supermarket and independent agricultural supplier suggestions are based on the amount of food they sell. Certainly the supermarket had reason to sex up its figure.
How accurately can you estimate how many people you are feeding?
Personally I dont believe either. ONS is too low, supermarket too high
Well, ought to be plenty easy to count once we're all chipped with the vaccine.
JOKE HAHA
While I appreciate the joke it really isn't a laughing matter. Knowing our population numbers is important for planning. How many doctors do we need, how many schools , how many hospitals etc. The fact we don't know accurately because of slip shod management by both tory and labour is lamentable. How hard would it be to count all coming in and going out accurately just in terms of numbers
You say that we know the official figure is inaccurate but don't think it is as high as 80m. What number do you think it is? Presumably whatever evidence shows the official number is inaccurate must therefore give an indication what the true figure is.
I would suspect there is probably 3 to 4 million extra in the uk than official figures indicate. That however is not based on any statistics just an educated guess, there are certainly enough to form a black economy for the below minimum wage places to run.
Out of interest, how does the supermarket know what kind of market share they have? I mean, if you know how much you sell, and you know your market share you can work out how much food is sold. But I contend that knowing the latter is really bloody difficult.
To summarise: A well-placed supermarket source will know how much THAT supermarket sells. They won't know their own market share beyond an estimate. They won't know how much food one person eats beyond an estimate. They won't know how much of the food is wasted beyond an estimate. We don't know who the source is so whether they are even well-placed is an open question.
And Farmer Parkin with his leg wrapped in polathine agrees that there's bloody immigrants everywhere.
A hidden army of workers in the black economy would need a vast amount of banknotes to keep a black economy going. They aren't doing credit cards, they aren't doing banks.
How big could it possibly be? We'd know right? If there were untold millions.
Just ask why Dubai is the second biggest source of banknotes after the BoE.
That is where the drug money is laundered.
One of the side effects of the BoE's anti forgery measures is that UK bank notes are trusted by the black economy, FWIW I know of a lot of Asians (HK, Singapore etc) and poss India/Pakistan who hold plenty of sterling for that `rainy day' - all the more relevant for those in Hong Kong unhappy at the turn of events.
Dubai was also a hub for a lot of US military `development' money following the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - a lot of the US dollars went to Dubai middlemen and never really left
Trumpsky's loyalist legion of stormtroopers are helping to dig the hole he & they are in even deeper by serious threats to reinact the Washington DC attempted Trump Putsch at state capitols from sea to shining sea.
Trumpsky's loyalist legion of stormtroopers are helping to dig the hole he & they are in even deeper by serious threats to reinact the Washington DC attempted Trump Putsch at state capitols from sea to shining sea.
should we be worried that some of the places with the highest rates of vaccinated people (Israel, UK), are also the places with some of the highest current infection rates? doesn't this increase the chance of a vaccine-resistant mutation?
First as in UK country in Europe to vaccinate all the oldies....
Apparently not, since we have a forty squiggillion people off the books. We're actually lagging behind France. A lad stacking the shelf at my local Co-op told me and, well, they would know.
You believe the official guess more then? Because that is all it is a guess. The truth lies between the two and there is evidence the official guess is wrong just on national insurance numbers issued.
It is a failure going back decades by both labour and tory governments we dont know how many entered and how many left
When I read your earlier claim, I laughed out loud. But then I got shushed by a voice in the cupboard. Opened it to check, and yes, there's a family living there I didn't even know about.
That's who's been easting my red-bag Doritos.
Why laugh I gave you a citation which backed what I said which was a supermarket had claimed there were more people.
The ons figure is bullshit and too low, the supermarket figure is bullshit and too high. Both are based on absolute guesswork. There are certainly more than 66 million here, there are certainly less than 80 million. The fact you only decry one claim is sad
Are they really based on the same level of guesswork?
The ons one is based on selected travellers into the country being given a questionaire to fill in at a handful of ports and airports. The answers they give are not checked. This is then extrapolated to all ports and airports to work out immigration and emigration figures. This has been widely reported and admitted.
How accurate do you believe that to be?
The supermarket and independent agricultural supplier suggestions are based on the amount of food they sell. Certainly the supermarket had reason to sex up its figure.
How accurately can you estimate how many people you are feeding?
Personally I dont believe either. ONS is too low, supermarket too high
Well, ought to be plenty easy to count once we're all chipped with the vaccine.
JOKE HAHA
While I appreciate the joke it really isn't a laughing matter. Knowing our population numbers is important for planning. How many doctors do we need, how many schools , how many hospitals etc. The fact we don't know accurately because of slip shod management by both tory and labour is lamentable. How hard would it be to count all coming in and going out accurately just in terms of numbers
You say that we know the official figure is inaccurate but don't think it is as high as 80m. What number do you think it is? Presumably whatever evidence shows the official number is inaccurate must therefore give an indication what the true figure is.
I would suspect there is probably 3 to 4 million extra in the uk than official figures indicate. That however is not based on any statistics just an educated guess, there are certainly enough to form a black economy for the below minimum wage places to run.
Out of interest, how does the supermarket know what kind of market share they have? I mean, if you know how much you sell, and you know your market share you can work out how much food is sold. But I contend that knowing the latter is really bloody difficult.
To summarise: A well-placed supermarket source will know how much THAT supermarket sells. They won't know their own market share beyond an estimate. They won't know how much food one person eats beyond an estimate. They won't know how much of the food is wasted beyond an estimate. We don't know who the source is so whether they are even well-placed is an open question.
And Farmer Parkin with his leg wrapped in polathine agrees that there's bloody immigrants everywhere.
A hidden army of workers in the black economy would need a vast amount of banknotes to keep a black economy going. They aren't doing credit cards, they aren't doing banks.
How big could it possibly be? We'd know right? If there were untold millions.
About £700 each being saved on average? Do people really think that is unusual, there will be a small but not tiny proportion who keep significant cash savings. 1 person with £35k in cash savings would cover 49 with none.
First as in UK country in Europe to vaccinate all the oldies....
Apparently not, since we have a forty squiggillion people off the books. We're actually lagging behind France. A lad stacking the shelf at my local Co-op told me and, well, they would know.
You believe the official guess more then? Because that is all it is a guess. The truth lies between the two and there is evidence the official guess is wrong just on national insurance numbers issued.
It is a failure going back decades by both labour and tory governments we dont know how many entered and how many left
When I read your earlier claim, I laughed out loud. But then I got shushed by a voice in the cupboard. Opened it to check, and yes, there's a family living there I didn't even know about.
That's who's been easting my red-bag Doritos.
Why laugh I gave you a citation which backed what I said which was a supermarket had claimed there were more people.
The ons figure is bullshit and too low, the supermarket figure is bullshit and too high. Both are based on absolute guesswork. There are certainly more than 66 million here, there are certainly less than 80 million. The fact you only decry one claim is sad
Are they really based on the same level of guesswork?
The ons one is based on selected travellers into the country being given a questionaire to fill in at a handful of ports and airports. The answers they give are not checked. This is then extrapolated to all ports and airports to work out immigration and emigration figures. This has been widely reported and admitted.
How accurate do you believe that to be?
The supermarket and independent agricultural supplier suggestions are based on the amount of food they sell. Certainly the supermarket had reason to sex up its figure.
How accurately can you estimate how many people you are feeding?
Personally I dont believe either. ONS is too low, supermarket too high
Well, ought to be plenty easy to count once we're all chipped with the vaccine.
JOKE HAHA
While I appreciate the joke it really isn't a laughing matter. Knowing our population numbers is important for planning. How many doctors do we need, how many schools , how many hospitals etc. The fact we don't know accurately because of slip shod management by both tory and labour is lamentable. How hard would it be to count all coming in and going out accurately just in terms of numbers
You say that we know the official figure is inaccurate but don't think it is as high as 80m. What number do you think it is? Presumably whatever evidence shows the official number is inaccurate must therefore give an indication what the true figure is.
I would suspect there is probably 3 to 4 million extra in the uk than official figures indicate. That however is not based on any statistics just an educated guess, there are certainly enough to form a black economy for the below minimum wage places to run.
Out of interest, how does the supermarket know what kind of market share they have? I mean, if you know how much you sell, and you know your market share you can work out how much food is sold. But I contend that knowing the latter is really bloody difficult.
All supermarkets are publicly listed, each has to list its revenue therefore. You add up all the revenue divide your revenue by the total and multiply by a 100
Add in corner shops, takeaways, food markets, restaurants, allotments, farms - no one really knows what share of the calorie markets they have - they are educated guesses that could easily be out by 10%.
First as in UK country in Europe to vaccinate all the oldies....
Apparently not, since we have a forty squiggillion people off the books. We're actually lagging behind France. A lad stacking the shelf at my local Co-op told me and, well, they would know.
You believe the official guess more then? Because that is all it is a guess. The truth lies between the two and there is evidence the official guess is wrong just on national insurance numbers issued.
It is a failure going back decades by both labour and tory governments we dont know how many entered and how many left
When I read your earlier claim, I laughed out loud. But then I got shushed by a voice in the cupboard. Opened it to check, and yes, there's a family living there I didn't even know about.
That's who's been easting my red-bag Doritos.
Why laugh I gave you a citation which backed what I said which was a supermarket had claimed there were more people.
The ons figure is bullshit and too low, the supermarket figure is bullshit and too high. Both are based on absolute guesswork. There are certainly more than 66 million here, there are certainly less than 80 million. The fact you only decry one claim is sad
Are they really based on the same level of guesswork?
The ons one is based on selected travellers into the country being given a questionaire to fill in at a handful of ports and airports. The answers they give are not checked. This is then extrapolated to all ports and airports to work out immigration and emigration figures. This has been widely reported and admitted.
How accurate do you believe that to be?
The supermarket and independent agricultural supplier suggestions are based on the amount of food they sell. Certainly the supermarket had reason to sex up its figure.
How accurately can you estimate how many people you are feeding?
Personally I dont believe either. ONS is too low, supermarket too high
Well, ought to be plenty easy to count once we're all chipped with the vaccine.
JOKE HAHA
While I appreciate the joke it really isn't a laughing matter. Knowing our population numbers is important for planning. How many doctors do we need, how many schools , how many hospitals etc. The fact we don't know accurately because of slip shod management by both tory and labour is lamentable. How hard would it be to count all coming in and going out accurately just in terms of numbers
You say that we know the official figure is inaccurate but don't think it is as high as 80m. What number do you think it is? Presumably whatever evidence shows the official number is inaccurate must therefore give an indication what the true figure is.
I would suspect there is probably 3 to 4 million extra in the uk than official figures indicate. That however is not based on any statistics just an educated guess, there are certainly enough to form a black economy for the below minimum wage places to run.
Out of interest, how does the supermarket know what kind of market share they have? I mean, if you know how much you sell, and you know your market share you can work out how much food is sold. But I contend that knowing the latter is really bloody difficult.
To summarise: A well-placed supermarket source will know how much THAT supermarket sells. They won't know their own market share beyond an estimate. They won't know how much food one person eats beyond an estimate. They won't know how much of the food is wasted beyond an estimate. We don't know who the source is so whether they are even well-placed is an open question.
And Farmer Parkin with his leg wrapped in polathine agrees that there's bloody immigrants everywhere.
A hidden army of workers in the black economy would need a vast amount of banknotes to keep a black economy going. They aren't doing credit cards, they aren't doing banks.
How big could it possibly be? We'd know right? If there were untold millions.
About £700 each being saved on average? Do people really think that is unusual, there will be a small but not tiny proportion who keep significant cash savings. 1 person with £35k in cash savings would cover 49 with none.
There’s a quite amazing number of people who still keep their life’s savings under the mattress, don’t trust the banking system not to run away with their money.
First as in UK country in Europe to vaccinate all the oldies....
Apparently not, since we have a forty squiggillion people off the books. We're actually lagging behind France. A lad stacking the shelf at my local Co-op told me and, well, they would know.
You believe the official guess more then? Because that is all it is a guess. The truth lies between the two and there is evidence the official guess is wrong just on national insurance numbers issued.
It is a failure going back decades by both labour and tory governments we dont know how many entered and how many left
When I read your earlier claim, I laughed out loud. But then I got shushed by a voice in the cupboard. Opened it to check, and yes, there's a family living there I didn't even know about.
That's who's been easting my red-bag Doritos.
Why laugh I gave you a citation which backed what I said which was a supermarket had claimed there were more people.
The ons figure is bullshit and too low, the supermarket figure is bullshit and too high. Both are based on absolute guesswork. There are certainly more than 66 million here, there are certainly less than 80 million. The fact you only decry one claim is sad
Are they really based on the same level of guesswork?
The ons one is based on selected travellers into the country being given a questionaire to fill in at a handful of ports and airports. The answers they give are not checked. This is then extrapolated to all ports and airports to work out immigration and emigration figures. This has been widely reported and admitted.
How accurate do you believe that to be?
The supermarket and independent agricultural supplier suggestions are based on the amount of food they sell. Certainly the supermarket had reason to sex up its figure.
How accurately can you estimate how many people you are feeding?
Personally I dont believe either. ONS is too low, supermarket too high
Well, ought to be plenty easy to count once we're all chipped with the vaccine.
JOKE HAHA
While I appreciate the joke it really isn't a laughing matter. Knowing our population numbers is important for planning. How many doctors do we need, how many schools , how many hospitals etc. The fact we don't know accurately because of slip shod management by both tory and labour is lamentable. How hard would it be to count all coming in and going out accurately just in terms of numbers
You say that we know the official figure is inaccurate but don't think it is as high as 80m. What number do you think it is? Presumably whatever evidence shows the official number is inaccurate must therefore give an indication what the true figure is.
I would suspect there is probably 3 to 4 million extra in the uk than official figures indicate. That however is not based on any statistics just an educated guess, there are certainly enough to form a black economy for the below minimum wage places to run.
Out of interest, how does the supermarket know what kind of market share they have? I mean, if you know how much you sell, and you know your market share you can work out how much food is sold. But I contend that knowing the latter is really bloody difficult.
To summarise: A well-placed supermarket source will know how much THAT supermarket sells. They won't know their own market share beyond an estimate. They won't know how much food one person eats beyond an estimate. They won't know how much of the food is wasted beyond an estimate. We don't know who the source is so whether they are even well-placed is an open question.
And Farmer Parkin with his leg wrapped in polathine agrees that there's bloody immigrants everywhere.
A hidden army of workers in the black economy would need a vast amount of banknotes to keep a black economy going. They aren't doing credit cards, they aren't doing banks.
How big could it possibly be? We'd know right? If there were untold millions.
Just ask why Dubai is the second biggest source of banknotes after the BoE.
That is where the drug money is laundered.
There was the story of the British Lady that got the sack from I believe Deutsche Bank after she questioned why a branch was constantly out of cash and found that so much was being withdrawn that they were using wheelbarrows to transport it.
Personally I always take my own wheelbarrow, can't be too careful with COVID and all that.
Reporting something like that to the regulator in Dubai - pretty dumb if you don't know who is involved. 10 to 1 they were playing "tax" to someone high enough in the system....
Banking regulation and KYC has gone mad in recent years in the sendpit* - it’s very difficult for small business owners to get a bank account now, and I had to show my passport and prove my address when sending $25 to a supplier via Western Union the other day.
It’s also ho,e to millions of expatriate workers, almost all of whom send money to their families in other parts of the world on a regular basis.
First as in UK country in Europe to vaccinate all the oldies....
Apparently not, since we have a forty squiggillion people off the books. We're actually lagging behind France. A lad stacking the shelf at my local Co-op told me and, well, they would know.
You believe the official guess more then? Because that is all it is a guess. The truth lies between the two and there is evidence the official guess is wrong just on national insurance numbers issued.
It is a failure going back decades by both labour and tory governments we dont know how many entered and how many left
When I read your earlier claim, I laughed out loud. But then I got shushed by a voice in the cupboard. Opened it to check, and yes, there's a family living there I didn't even know about.
That's who's been easting my red-bag Doritos.
Why laugh I gave you a citation which backed what I said which was a supermarket had claimed there were more people.
The ons figure is bullshit and too low, the supermarket figure is bullshit and too high. Both are based on absolute guesswork. There are certainly more than 66 million here, there are certainly less than 80 million. The fact you only decry one claim is sad
Are they really based on the same level of guesswork?
The ons one is based on selected travellers into the country being given a questionaire to fill in at a handful of ports and airports. The answers they give are not checked. This is then extrapolated to all ports and airports to work out immigration and emigration figures. This has been widely reported and admitted.
How accurate do you believe that to be?
The supermarket and independent agricultural supplier suggestions are based on the amount of food they sell. Certainly the supermarket had reason to sex up its figure.
How accurately can you estimate how many people you are feeding?
Personally I dont believe either. ONS is too low, supermarket too high
Well, ought to be plenty easy to count once we're all chipped with the vaccine.
JOKE HAHA
While I appreciate the joke it really isn't a laughing matter. Knowing our population numbers is important for planning. How many doctors do we need, how many schools , how many hospitals etc. The fact we don't know accurately because of slip shod management by both tory and labour is lamentable. How hard would it be to count all coming in and going out accurately just in terms of numbers
You say that we know the official figure is inaccurate but don't think it is as high as 80m. What number do you think it is? Presumably whatever evidence shows the official number is inaccurate must therefore give an indication what the true figure is.
I would suspect there is probably 3 to 4 million extra in the uk than official figures indicate. That however is not based on any statistics just an educated guess, there are certainly enough to form a black economy for the below minimum wage places to run.
Out of interest, how does the supermarket know what kind of market share they have? I mean, if you know how much you sell, and you know your market share you can work out how much food is sold. But I contend that knowing the latter is really bloody difficult.
To summarise: A well-placed supermarket source will know how much THAT supermarket sells. They won't know their own market share beyond an estimate. They won't know how much food one person eats beyond an estimate. They won't know how much of the food is wasted beyond an estimate. We don't know who the source is so whether they are even well-placed is an open question.
And Farmer Parkin with his leg wrapped in polathine agrees that there's bloody immigrants everywhere.
A hidden army of workers in the black economy would need a vast amount of banknotes to keep a black economy going. They aren't doing credit cards, they aren't doing banks.
How big could it possibly be? We'd know right? If there were untold millions.
About £700 each being saved on average? Do people really think that is unusual, there will be a small but not tiny proportion who keep significant cash savings. 1 person with £35k in cash savings would cover 49 with none.
Before the Covid epidemic, 25% of the country had less than £100 in savings. I'm expecting that number to have only increased in the past year.
I suspect people working in a black economy are not going to be exactly sitting on a huge amount of cash either. Quite possibly, having the rent for their shared one room accommodation taken off them at source. Any "savings" they have perhaps being remitted home. Quite a hand to mouth existence. Not exactly living the dream.
It would be easy to have several million (mostly) men in their 20's/30's, hidden from the state in a twilight world of black economy, zero home ownership, only needing the NHS in extreme circumstances, not calling in the police if they get ripped off. No right to be here, maybe controlled by seriously dodgy individuals, not having any light shone on their existence, no valid passports/identity papers from home. Not on any census.
Short of an amnesty, how could you know how many there are?
First as in UK country in Europe to vaccinate all the oldies....
Apparently not, since we have a forty squiggillion people off the books. We're actually lagging behind France. A lad stacking the shelf at my local Co-op told me and, well, they would know.
You believe the official guess more then? Because that is all it is a guess. The truth lies between the two and there is evidence the official guess is wrong just on national insurance numbers issued.
It is a failure going back decades by both labour and tory governments we dont know how many entered and how many left
When I read your earlier claim, I laughed out loud. But then I got shushed by a voice in the cupboard. Opened it to check, and yes, there's a family living there I didn't even know about.
That's who's been easting my red-bag Doritos.
Why laugh I gave you a citation which backed what I said which was a supermarket had claimed there were more people.
The ons figure is bullshit and too low, the supermarket figure is bullshit and too high. Both are based on absolute guesswork. There are certainly more than 66 million here, there are certainly less than 80 million. The fact you only decry one claim is sad
Are they really based on the same level of guesswork?
The ons one is based on selected travellers into the country being given a questionaire to fill in at a handful of ports and airports. The answers they give are not checked. This is then extrapolated to all ports and airports to work out immigration and emigration figures. This has been widely reported and admitted.
How accurate do you believe that to be?
The supermarket and independent agricultural supplier suggestions are based on the amount of food they sell. Certainly the supermarket had reason to sex up its figure.
How accurately can you estimate how many people you are feeding?
Personally I dont believe either. ONS is too low, supermarket too high
Well, ought to be plenty easy to count once we're all chipped with the vaccine.
JOKE HAHA
While I appreciate the joke it really isn't a laughing matter. Knowing our population numbers is important for planning. How many doctors do we need, how many schools , how many hospitals etc. The fact we don't know accurately because of slip shod management by both tory and labour is lamentable. How hard would it be to count all coming in and going out accurately just in terms of numbers
You say that we know the official figure is inaccurate but don't think it is as high as 80m. What number do you think it is? Presumably whatever evidence shows the official number is inaccurate must therefore give an indication what the true figure is.
I would suspect there is probably 3 to 4 million extra in the uk than official figures indicate. That however is not based on any statistics just an educated guess, there are certainly enough to form a black economy for the below minimum wage places to run.
Out of interest, how does the supermarket know what kind of market share they have? I mean, if you know how much you sell, and you know your market share you can work out how much food is sold. But I contend that knowing the latter is really bloody difficult.
To summarise: A well-placed supermarket source will know how much THAT supermarket sells. They won't know their own market share beyond an estimate. They won't know how much food one person eats beyond an estimate. They won't know how much of the food is wasted beyond an estimate. We don't know who the source is so whether they are even well-placed is an open question.
And Farmer Parkin with his leg wrapped in polathine agrees that there's bloody immigrants everywhere.
A hidden army of workers in the black economy would need a vast amount of banknotes to keep a black economy going. They aren't doing credit cards, they aren't doing banks.
How big could it possibly be? We'd know right? If there were untold millions.
About £700 each being saved on average? Do people really think that is unusual, there will be a small but not tiny proportion who keep significant cash savings. 1 person with £35k in cash savings would cover 49 with none.
There’s a quite amazing number of people who still keep their life’s savings under the mattress, don’t trust the banking system not to run away with their money.
If you add those to the prudent who keep a thousand or two at home in case banks are down, the 1.7m without access to a bank account, then consider the black economy, I am actually surprised the number is not significantly more than £50bn.
First as in UK country in Europe to vaccinate all the oldies....
Apparently not, since we have a forty squiggillion people off the books. We're actually lagging behind France. A lad stacking the shelf at my local Co-op told me and, well, they would know.
You believe the official guess more then? Because that is all it is a guess. The truth lies between the two and there is evidence the official guess is wrong just on national insurance numbers issued.
It is a failure going back decades by both labour and tory governments we dont know how many entered and how many left
When I read your earlier claim, I laughed out loud. But then I got shushed by a voice in the cupboard. Opened it to check, and yes, there's a family living there I didn't even know about.
That's who's been easting my red-bag Doritos.
Why laugh I gave you a citation which backed what I said which was a supermarket had claimed there were more people.
The ons figure is bullshit and too low, the supermarket figure is bullshit and too high. Both are based on absolute guesswork. There are certainly more than 66 million here, there are certainly less than 80 million. The fact you only decry one claim is sad
Are they really based on the same level of guesswork?
The ons one is based on selected travellers into the country being given a questionaire to fill in at a handful of ports and airports. The answers they give are not checked. This is then extrapolated to all ports and airports to work out immigration and emigration figures. This has been widely reported and admitted.
How accurate do you believe that to be?
The supermarket and independent agricultural supplier suggestions are based on the amount of food they sell. Certainly the supermarket had reason to sex up its figure.
How accurately can you estimate how many people you are feeding?
Personally I dont believe either. ONS is too low, supermarket too high
Well, ought to be plenty easy to count once we're all chipped with the vaccine.
JOKE HAHA
While I appreciate the joke it really isn't a laughing matter. Knowing our population numbers is important for planning. How many doctors do we need, how many schools , how many hospitals etc. The fact we don't know accurately because of slip shod management by both tory and labour is lamentable. How hard would it be to count all coming in and going out accurately just in terms of numbers
You say that we know the official figure is inaccurate but don't think it is as high as 80m. What number do you think it is? Presumably whatever evidence shows the official number is inaccurate must therefore give an indication what the true figure is.
I would suspect there is probably 3 to 4 million extra in the uk than official figures indicate. That however is not based on any statistics just an educated guess, there are certainly enough to form a black economy for the below minimum wage places to run.
Out of interest, how does the supermarket know what kind of market share they have? I mean, if you know how much you sell, and you know your market share you can work out how much food is sold. But I contend that knowing the latter is really bloody difficult.
All supermarkets are publicly listed, each has to list its revenue therefore. You add up all the revenue divide your revenue by the total and multiply by a 100
Add in corner shops, takeaways, food markets, restaurants, allotments, farms - no one really knows what share of the calorie markets they have - they are educated guesses that could easily be out by 10%.
That's not really true: corner shops, takeaways, and the like all buy their food from cash & carry and other locations.
First as in UK country in Europe to vaccinate all the oldies....
Apparently not, since we have a forty squiggillion people off the books. We're actually lagging behind France. A lad stacking the shelf at my local Co-op told me and, well, they would know.
You believe the official guess more then? Because that is all it is a guess. The truth lies between the two and there is evidence the official guess is wrong just on national insurance numbers issued.
It is a failure going back decades by both labour and tory governments we dont know how many entered and how many left
When I read your earlier claim, I laughed out loud. But then I got shushed by a voice in the cupboard. Opened it to check, and yes, there's a family living there I didn't even know about.
That's who's been easting my red-bag Doritos.
Why laugh I gave you a citation which backed what I said which was a supermarket had claimed there were more people.
The ons figure is bullshit and too low, the supermarket figure is bullshit and too high. Both are based on absolute guesswork. There are certainly more than 66 million here, there are certainly less than 80 million. The fact you only decry one claim is sad
Are they really based on the same level of guesswork?
The ons one is based on selected travellers into the country being given a questionaire to fill in at a handful of ports and airports. The answers they give are not checked. This is then extrapolated to all ports and airports to work out immigration and emigration figures. This has been widely reported and admitted.
How accurate do you believe that to be?
The supermarket and independent agricultural supplier suggestions are based on the amount of food they sell. Certainly the supermarket had reason to sex up its figure.
How accurately can you estimate how many people you are feeding?
Personally I dont believe either. ONS is too low, supermarket too high
Well, ought to be plenty easy to count once we're all chipped with the vaccine.
JOKE HAHA
While I appreciate the joke it really isn't a laughing matter. Knowing our population numbers is important for planning. How many doctors do we need, how many schools , how many hospitals etc. The fact we don't know accurately because of slip shod management by both tory and labour is lamentable. How hard would it be to count all coming in and going out accurately just in terms of numbers
You say that we know the official figure is inaccurate but don't think it is as high as 80m. What number do you think it is? Presumably whatever evidence shows the official number is inaccurate must therefore give an indication what the true figure is.
I would suspect there is probably 3 to 4 million extra in the uk than official figures indicate. That however is not based on any statistics just an educated guess, there are certainly enough to form a black economy for the below minimum wage places to run.
Out of interest, how does the supermarket know what kind of market share they have? I mean, if you know how much you sell, and you know your market share you can work out how much food is sold. But I contend that knowing the latter is really bloody difficult.
All supermarkets are publicly listed, each has to list its revenue therefore. You add up all the revenue divide your revenue by the total and multiply by a 100
Add in corner shops, takeaways, food markets, restaurants, allotments, farms - no one really knows what share of the calorie markets they have - they are educated guesses that could easily be out by 10%.
That's not really true: corner shops, takeaways, and the like all buy their food from cash & carry and other locations.
Presumably much of it can be imported? It is not unusual to get non standard UK versions of popular brands in some small shops. Also how would anyone know what percentage of food is wasted?
The US health secretary, Alex Azar, warned Donald Trump in a letter that last week’s attack on the Capitol threatened the administration’s legacy, and he urged the president to support a peaceful transfer of power.
In the two-page, formal resignation letter, dated 12 January, Azar recited what he saw as the administration’s key accomplishments but voiced concern that last week’s siege in Washington and Trump’s false claims of widespread voter fraud “threaten to tarnish these and other historic legacies of this administration”.
“The attacks on the Capitol were an assault on our democracy and on the tradition of peaceful transitions of power,” Azar wrote.
First as in UK country in Europe to vaccinate all the oldies....
Apparently not, since we have a forty squiggillion people off the books. We're actually lagging behind France. A lad stacking the shelf at my local Co-op told me and, well, they would know.
You believe the official guess more then? Because that is all it is a guess. The truth lies between the two and there is evidence the official guess is wrong just on national insurance numbers issued.
It is a failure going back decades by both labour and tory governments we dont know how many entered and how many left
When I read your earlier claim, I laughed out loud. But then I got shushed by a voice in the cupboard. Opened it to check, and yes, there's a family living there I didn't even know about.
That's who's been easting my red-bag Doritos.
Why laugh I gave you a citation which backed what I said which was a supermarket had claimed there were more people.
The ons figure is bullshit and too low, the supermarket figure is bullshit and too high. Both are based on absolute guesswork. There are certainly more than 66 million here, there are certainly less than 80 million. The fact you only decry one claim is sad
Are they really based on the same level of guesswork?
The ons one is based on selected travellers into the country being given a questionaire to fill in at a handful of ports and airports. The answers they give are not checked. This is then extrapolated to all ports and airports to work out immigration and emigration figures. This has been widely reported and admitted.
How accurate do you believe that to be?
The supermarket and independent agricultural supplier suggestions are based on the amount of food they sell. Certainly the supermarket had reason to sex up its figure.
How accurately can you estimate how many people you are feeding?
Personally I dont believe either. ONS is too low, supermarket too high
Well, ought to be plenty easy to count once we're all chipped with the vaccine.
JOKE HAHA
While I appreciate the joke it really isn't a laughing matter. Knowing our population numbers is important for planning. How many doctors do we need, how many schools , how many hospitals etc. The fact we don't know accurately because of slip shod management by both tory and labour is lamentable. How hard would it be to count all coming in and going out accurately just in terms of numbers
You say that we know the official figure is inaccurate but don't think it is as high as 80m. What number do you think it is? Presumably whatever evidence shows the official number is inaccurate must therefore give an indication what the true figure is.
I would suspect there is probably 3 to 4 million extra in the uk than official figures indicate. That however is not based on any statistics just an educated guess, there are certainly enough to form a black economy for the below minimum wage places to run.
Out of interest, how does the supermarket know what kind of market share they have? I mean, if you know how much you sell, and you know your market share you can work out how much food is sold. But I contend that knowing the latter is really bloody difficult.
To summarise: A well-placed supermarket source will know how much THAT supermarket sells. They won't know their own market share beyond an estimate. They won't know how much food one person eats beyond an estimate. They won't know how much of the food is wasted beyond an estimate. We don't know who the source is so whether they are even well-placed is an open question.
And Farmer Parkin with his leg wrapped in polathine agrees that there's bloody immigrants everywhere.
A hidden army of workers in the black economy would need a vast amount of banknotes to keep a black economy going. They aren't doing credit cards, they aren't doing banks.
How big could it possibly be? We'd know right? If there were untold millions.
About £700 each being saved on average? Do people really think that is unusual, there will be a small but not tiny proportion who keep significant cash savings. 1 person with £35k in cash savings would cover 49 with none.
Before the Covid epidemic, 25% of the country had less than £100 in savings. I'm expecting that number to have only increased in the past year.
I suspect people working in a black economy are not going to be exactly sitting on a huge amount of cash either. Quite possibly, having the rent for their shared one room accommodation taken off them at source. Any "savings" they have perhaps being remitted home. Quite a hand to mouth existence. Not exactly living the dream.
It would be easy to have several million (mostly) men in their 20's/30's, hidden from the state in a twilight world of black economy, zero home ownership, only needing the NHS in extreme circumstances, not calling in the police if they get ripped off. No right to be here, maybe controlled by seriously dodgy individuals, not having any light shone on their existence, no valid passports/identity papers from home. Not on any census.
Short of an amnesty, how could you know how many there are?
Household savings have increased significantly during covid. With many shops not taking cash, at least during the first lockdown, I can't see why that won't apply to cash savings too.
Do people like you describe exist? Sure. Just saying it is "easy" to have several million of them here does not make it so.
Guardian: While the government will point to the emergence of new variants, questions will again be asked on the timing, coherence and implementation of the rules. Boris Johnson imposed a ban on flights from Brazil this week – almost three weeks after UK flights were barred by Brazil.
Enforcement of negative Covid tests for travellers arriving in England had to be delayed from 4am on Friday after the government only published the requirements late on Wednesday evening – a matter of hours before affected flights could have departed, leaving passengers perplexed and some paying hundreds of pounds for unnecessary paperwork.
Even now, the Business Travel Association is warning the government has yet to issue detailed information on where those travelling for work can get acceptable tests. Essential workers – medical researchers, energy suppliers and humanitarians – must, it suggests, be able to travel with confidence in procedures and in the knowledge they can return home.
There is a sense of deja vu after the similarly botched introduction of the “test to release” scheme – which still allows people arriving in the UK to apply to exit quarantine early after five days with a further negative Covid test. That scheme also had a lengthy period between announcement and implementation – and then arrived with a list of suppliers that could not deliver, to the cost and frustration of many who ended up out of pocket and in isolation.
The bigger question may yet prove to be why public health measures at the borders first promised by ministers a fortnight ago have taken two weeks to introduce, should new variants from abroad be discovered in the UK.
The transport secretary, Grant Shapps, joked on Friday he was the last person to give advice on whether people should book travel – a reference, no doubt, to the travel corridor to Spain he axed while on holiday there last year. Unfortunately, no one is better placed to answer than Shapps.
I agree with Mike. The tide has turned and very soon Trump is going to find himself in the full glare of a massive legal spotlight. The GOP will increasingly abandon him.
Senior councillors and Bath MP Wera Hobhouse were among the objectors to EE and 3’s application to upgrade a 15-metre mast that has been in place since 2006.
I'd be interested to hear about the debate, if anyone was warching it. The emphasis on *formal* minutes is suggestive.
It's thought to be quite common for councillors who object to an application on grounds that are not considered relevant to cast around for an objection that can be sustained. I have no idea if that happened here, but more than formal minutes are needed to make it clear.
You can watch it yourself, if you don’t mind eight hours of Zoom:
It would be lazy to be making allegations about the section that aren’t supported by the minutes, if you can’t be bothered to watch the meeting.
That's classic Lib Dem tactics followed by weasel words. Place yourself at the head of the crowd for a couple of votes next time, then try to pretend that you are not endorsing the crank element.
A couple of snippets from Wera's objection from the piece. It includes the 5G crankery, which she may or may not believe:
“I am concerned about the height and visual impact of the mast in a World Heritage Site.”
“Furthermore, I am concerned about the threat to human health, to tree health and to wildlife and biodiversity.”
She said given the “widespread concern” it may be worth applying a “precautionary principle”.
Quite likely to lose on Appeal. The only cost is to the Council.
I had one of these "political noes" when we went for PP on some family land. Approval recommended by the Planning Officers. Political no in committee. Appeal won in 6 weeks flat at a cost of several thousand to the Council.
CNN: By Friday, the FBI had received 140,000 digital tips regarding the attack, including photos and video, federal officials had opened 275 criminal investigations, charged roughly 98 individuals, and taken 100 individuals into custody.
First as in UK country in Europe to vaccinate all the oldies....
Apparently not, since we have a forty squiggillion people off the books. We're actually lagging behind France. A lad stacking the shelf at my local Co-op told me and, well, they would know.
You believe the official guess more then? Because that is all it is a guess. The truth lies between the two and there is evidence the official guess is wrong just on national insurance numbers issued.
It is a failure going back decades by both labour and tory governments we dont know how many entered and how many left
When I read your earlier claim, I laughed out loud. But then I got shushed by a voice in the cupboard. Opened it to check, and yes, there's a family living there I didn't even know about.
That's who's been easting my red-bag Doritos.
Why laugh I gave you a citation which backed what I said which was a supermarket had claimed there were more people.
The ons figure is bullshit and too low, the supermarket figure is bullshit and too high. Both are based on absolute guesswork. There are certainly more than 66 million here, there are certainly less than 80 million. The fact you only decry one claim is sad
Are they really based on the same level of guesswork?
The ons one is based on selected travellers into the country being given a questionaire to fill in at a handful of ports and airports. The answers they give are not checked. This is then extrapolated to all ports and airports to work out immigration and emigration figures. This has been widely reported and admitted.
How accurate do you believe that to be?
The supermarket and independent agricultural supplier suggestions are based on the amount of food they sell. Certainly the supermarket had reason to sex up its figure.
How accurately can you estimate how many people you are feeding?
Personally I dont believe either. ONS is too low, supermarket too high
Well, ought to be plenty easy to count once we're all chipped with the vaccine.
JOKE HAHA
While I appreciate the joke it really isn't a laughing matter. Knowing our population numbers is important for planning. How many doctors do we need, how many schools , how many hospitals etc. The fact we don't know accurately because of slip shod management by both tory and labour is lamentable. How hard would it be to count all coming in and going out accurately just in terms of numbers
You say that we know the official figure is inaccurate but don't think it is as high as 80m. What number do you think it is? Presumably whatever evidence shows the official number is inaccurate must therefore give an indication what the true figure is.
I would suspect there is probably 3 to 4 million extra in the uk than official figures indicate. That however is not based on any statistics just an educated guess, there are certainly enough to form a black economy for the below minimum wage places to run.
Out of interest, how does the supermarket know what kind of market share they have? I mean, if you know how much you sell, and you know your market share you can work out how much food is sold. But I contend that knowing the latter is really bloody difficult.
To summarise: A well-placed supermarket source will know how much THAT supermarket sells. They won't know their own market share beyond an estimate. They won't know how much food one person eats beyond an estimate. They won't know how much of the food is wasted beyond an estimate. We don't know who the source is so whether they are even well-placed is an open question.
And Farmer Parkin with his leg wrapped in polathine agrees that there's bloody immigrants everywhere.
A hidden army of workers in the black economy would need a vast amount of banknotes to keep a black economy going. They aren't doing credit cards, they aren't doing banks.
How big could it possibly be? We'd know right? If there were untold millions.
About £700 each being saved on average? Do people really think that is unusual, there will be a small but not tiny proportion who keep significant cash savings. 1 person with £35k in cash savings would cover 49 with none.
Before the Covid epidemic, 25% of the country had less than £100 in savings. I'm expecting that number to have only increased in the past year.
I suspect people working in a black economy are not going to be exactly sitting on a huge amount of cash either. Quite possibly, having the rent for their shared one room accommodation taken off them at source. Any "savings" they have perhaps being remitted home. Quite a hand to mouth existence. Not exactly living the dream.
It would be easy to have several million (mostly) men in their 20's/30's, hidden from the state in a twilight world of black economy, zero home ownership, only needing the NHS in extreme circumstances, not calling in the police if they get ripped off. No right to be here, maybe controlled by seriously dodgy individuals, not having any light shone on their existence, no valid passports/identity papers from home. Not on any census.
Short of an amnesty, how could you know how many there are?
Household savings have increased significantly during covid.
Be interesting to see how much of that is represented by non-cash savings/credit card debt being paid down. The need for cash should have fallen off a cliff in the past year. And yet, £50 billion is missing.....
The main news in Germany is the CDU deciding on a new leader. None of the options look very inspiring.
New infections are still falling, and numbers with Covid in ICU too. There's a bit of a feeling of the calm before the storm as lockdown works and the new variants haven't reached large numbers yet. But they probably will.
The 5G Health stuff is not in the "reasons for rejection" because those are a legal doc written up by the Planning Officer, and cannot include non-material or fictional considerations - which would fail on Appeal, as was explained to the meeting by the Deputy head of Planning.
On that weaselly Tweet, here is an extract from the Minutes.
Cllr Sarah Warren, local ward member, spoke against the application. She highlighted the duty of the Committee to prevent harm. She stated that some research showed that 5G can have an adverse effect on health. Electromagnetic pollution could also cause environmental harm. There was real concern from local residents regarding the effect of the 5G mast and she felt that the Committee should be cautious about approving the application.
Cllr Kevin Guy, local ward member, spoke against the application. He noted that an exclusion zone was required for areas with high levels of radiation. He pointed out that the mast would be close to a nursery school and community hall and that it would be irresponsible to approve the application.
The Case Officer then responded to questions as follows:
· Health concerns are a material consideration, however, the NPPF guidance is clear on this issue. To go against these guidelines would be going against national planning policy. The applicant has submitted a certificate of compliance with the ICNIRP public exposure guidelines. The key issues for the Committee to consider are visual impact, greenbelt policies, trees and ecology issues. Any refusal on health grounds would be in clear contravention of planning policy.
and The Deputy Head of Planning advised that, although the Committee could give weight to the health aspects of the application, given that the applicant has supplied the required certification, if it were refused on health grounds, at appeal the applicant would be able to demonstrate compliance with guidelines and the Council would need its own evidence to weigh against that, and there is none that it could provide.
The 5G Health stuff is not in the "reasons for rejection" because those are a legal doc written up by the Planning Officer, and cannot include non-material or fictional considerations - which would fail on Appeal, as was explained to the meeting by the Deputy head of Planning.
On that weaselly Tweet, here is an extract from the Minutes.
Cllr Sarah Warren, local ward member, spoke against the application. She highlighted the duty of the Committee to prevent harm. She stated that some research showed that 5G can have an adverse effect on health. Electromagnetic pollution could also cause environmental harm. There was real concern from local residents regarding the effect of the 5G mast and she felt that the Committee should be cautious about approving the application.
Cllr Kevin Guy, local ward member, spoke against the application. He noted that an exclusion zone was required for areas with high levels of radiation. He pointed out that the mast would be close to a nursery school and community hall and that it would be irresponsible to approve the application.
The Case Officer then responded to questions as follows:
· Health concerns are a material consideration, however, the NPPF guidance is clear on this issue. To go against these guidelines would be going against national planning policy. The applicant has submitted a certificate of compliance with the ICNIRP public exposure guidelines. The key issues for the Committee to consider are visual impact, greenbelt policies, trees and ecology issues. Any refusal on health grounds would be in clear contravention of planning policy.
and The Deputy Head of Planning advised that, although the Committee could give weight to the health aspects of the application, given that the applicant has supplied the required certification, if it were refused on health grounds, at appeal the applicant would be able to demonstrate compliance with guidelines and the Council would need its own evidence to weigh against that, and there is none that it could provide.
That's a misunderstanding of how planning committees work. The "local members" would have spoken as "interested councillors" rather than as members of the committee. So they speak, as do residents, but do not vote. It's really common (a bit unfortunate, but common) for speakers at a planning committee to raise matters that are not relevant planning considerations and cannot be taken into account. Council officers advise councillors on the actual committee what arguments they can take into account and which they cannot, and then they decide.
Should the interested ward councillors have pandered to unfounded health concerns? No. Are these the reasons the application was rejected? Unlikely (although the applicant can appeal to the Planning Inspectorate if they feel the other reasons are bogus).
The smoking bloody gun. On the night I was posting that their plan was that the insurrection gets out of control and Trump has to declare martial law.
It was a coup. A shit one. But a coup nonetheless
Except, that was yesterday. Even more shit if your planning meeting is a week after the coup?
That said, he does look like he was perfectly cast for the Hollywood movie on How To Fuck Up A Coup. As guy who says "We better declare martial law!"
So they're STILL trying to get him to declare martial law and thus scrap the transition to Biden. Still a coup. An even crapper one
Put together with Trump's replacing the batch of senior people in the Pentagon shortly before, and the delay in authorising the National Guard on the day, and the outlines of a plot in which senior politicians up to the president are implicated begins to take shape.
A historian on CNN yesterday suggested that the Trump surname may go down in US history alongside Benedict Arnold, and have to be removed from his buildings and businesses.
Good news for small businesses affected by the pandemic, as Financial Conduct Authority wins Supreme Court ruling against group of insurance companies trying to argue that business continuity insurance shouldn’t pay out for a global issue, as opposed to one related specifically to the affected business.
should we be worried that some of the places with the highest rates of vaccinated people (Israel, UK), are also the places with some of the highest current infection rates? doesn't this increase the chance of a vaccine-resistant mutation?
Possibly. On the other hand we should also be worrying about the mutations arising in the absence of vaccine. Given that immune escape mutations tend to happen in those with extended serious illness, something considerably less likely in vaccinated individuals, it not clear where the balance of risk lies.
Though it’s certainly a valid argument against the delayed booster shots.
Good news for small businesses affected by the pandemic, as Financial Conduct Authority wins Supreme Court ruling against group of insurance companies trying to argue that business continuity insurance shouldn’t pay out for a global issue, as opposed to one related specifically to the affected business.
TSE has a very different opinion - I suspect his bonus has been some what reduced by his employer having to pay out.
Although I do believe that insurance companies should follow the spirit rather than the letter of the contract unless they explicit list the exceptions.
That's a misunderstanding of how planning committees work. The "local members" would have spoken as "interested councillors" rather than as members of the committee. So they speak, as do residents, but do not vote. It's really common (a bit unfortunate, but common) for speakers at a planning committee to raise matters that are not relevant planning considerations and cannot be taken into account. Council officers advise councillors on the actual committee what arguments they can take into account and which they cannot, and then they decide.
Should the interested ward councillors have pandered to unfounded health concerns? No. Are these the reasons the application was rejected? Unlikely (although the applicant can appeal to the Planning Inspectorate if they feel the other reasons are bogus).
I have pointed out before that Wera's (& the LibDem's) involvement did not just limit itself to the Planning Committee
Dept Health & Social Care Written Question, 30/11/2020, written question by Wera
"To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, if he will make it his policy to (a) publish a plan for the functioning of competent authorities to reconcile the public health and environmental effects of 5G technologies and (b) consult on that plan before the European Electronic Communications Code 2018 is transposed into UK law."
(Source: Hansard)
Why was Wera busy asking "competent authorities to reconcile the public health and environmental effects of 5G Technologies" on 30./11/2020 ?
The English is less colourful than Trump's, but the aim is the same. It is like saying: "All I am asking is for competent authorities to run safe and secure elections that all Americans want". It implies that 5G technologies are unsafe or the election is unfair.
Incidentally, Wera looks pretty accident prone. There is the business of the antisemitic tweets, and then the apology to the council officer after he threatened legal action .
She is too stupid and clumsy to be a competent MP, so I expect the next time I look she will have replaced Dead on Arrival Davey as LibDem leader.
Trump has been an utter disaster for the US and I am extremely worried about events happening this next week
Impeachment, even imprisonment, is unlikely to deter the extremes on the right but I have no answer how this does nor explode this week, and with many millions of followers just how long until the US returns to some recognisable form of democracy
The 5G Health stuff is not in the "reasons for rejection" because those are a legal doc written up by the Planning Officer, and cannot include non-material or fictional considerations - which would fail on Appeal, as was explained to the meeting by the Deputy head of Planning.
On that weaselly Tweet, here is an extract from the Minutes.
Cllr Sarah Warren, local ward member, spoke against the application. She highlighted the duty of the Committee to prevent harm. She stated that some research showed that 5G can have an adverse effect on health. Electromagnetic pollution could also cause environmental harm. There was real concern from local residents regarding the effect of the 5G mast and she felt that the Committee should be cautious about approving the application.
Cllr Kevin Guy, local ward member, spoke against the application. He noted that an exclusion zone was required for areas with high levels of radiation. He pointed out that the mast would be close to a nursery school and community hall and that it would be irresponsible to approve the application.
The Case Officer then responded to questions as follows:
· Health concerns are a material consideration, however, the NPPF guidance is clear on this issue. To go against these guidelines would be going against national planning policy. The applicant has submitted a certificate of compliance with the ICNIRP public exposure guidelines. The key issues for the Committee to consider are visual impact, greenbelt policies, trees and ecology issues. Any refusal on health grounds would be in clear contravention of planning policy.
and The Deputy Head of Planning advised that, although the Committee could give weight to the health aspects of the application, given that the applicant has supplied the required certification, if it were refused on health grounds, at appeal the applicant would be able to demonstrate compliance with guidelines and the Council would need its own evidence to weigh against that, and there is none that it could provide.
That's a misunderstanding of how planning committees work. The "local members" would have spoken as "interested councillors" rather than as members of the committee. So they speak, as do residents, but do not vote. It's really common (a bit unfortunate, but common) for speakers at a planning committee to raise matters that are not relevant planning considerations and cannot be taken into account. Council officers advise councillors on the actual committee what arguments they can take into account and which they cannot, and then they decide.
Should the interested ward councillors have pandered to unfounded health concerns? No. Are these the reasons the application was rejected? Unlikely (although the applicant can appeal to the Planning Inspectorate if they feel the other reasons are bogus).
(Block quotes not working - my reply)
I don't think I said anything about who votes. My point is that the Tweet (from the Council Leader) is attempting to portray 5G Health Threat theories as not having been relevant, whilst in fact two of the Councillors (Council Deputy Leader and another, both LD) used them as the only significant reason for objection in their addresses to the committee.
I think the reason for rejection was that the LDs on the Council wanted to ingratiate themselves with the anti-5G campaigners. And have been caught with their trousers slightly down. That was the main conclusion of the LDV conversation anyway.
Were I being a touch lighthearted I would say the the Councillor who's tweet was quoted needs to go on a course in Advanced Pavement Politics.
Article on the possibly immune resistant variant and the recent wave of cases in Manaus.
New coronavirus variants could cause more reinfections, require updated vaccines https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/01/new-coronavirus-variants-could-cause-more-reinfections-require-updated-vaccines When the number of COVID-19 cases began to rise again in Manaus, Brazil, in December 2020, Nuno Faria was stunned. The virologist at Imperial College London and associate professor at the University of Oxford had just co-authored a paper in Science estimating that three-quarters of the city’s inhabitants had already been infected with SARS-CoV-2, the pandemic coronavirus—more than enough, it seemed, for herd immunity to develop. The virus should be done with Manaus. Yet hospitals were filling up again. “It was hard to reconcile these two things,” Faria says. He started to hunt for samples he could sequence to find out whether changes in the virus could explain the resurgence.
On 12 January, Faria and his colleagues posted their initial conclusions on the website virological.org. Thirteen of 31 samples collected in mid-December in Manaus turned out to be part of a new viral lineage they called P.1. Much more research is needed, but they say one possibility is that in some people, P.1 eludes the human immune response triggered by the lineage that ravaged the city earlier in 2020...
The 5G Health stuff is not in the "reasons for rejection" because those are a legal doc written up by the Planning Officer, and cannot include non-material or fictional considerations - which would fail on Appeal, as was explained to the meeting by the Deputy head of Planning.
On that weaselly Tweet, here is an extract from the Minutes.
Cllr Sarah Warren, local ward member, spoke against the application. She highlighted the duty of the Committee to prevent harm. She stated that some research showed that 5G can have an adverse effect on health. Electromagnetic pollution could also cause environmental harm. There was real concern from local residents regarding the effect of the 5G mast and she felt that the Committee should be cautious about approving the application.
Cllr Kevin Guy, local ward member, spoke against the application. He noted that an exclusion zone was required for areas with high levels of radiation. He pointed out that the mast would be close to a nursery school and community hall and that it would be irresponsible to approve the application.
The Case Officer then responded to questions as follows:
· Health concerns are a material consideration, however, the NPPF guidance is clear on this issue. To go against these guidelines would be going against national planning policy. The applicant has submitted a certificate of compliance with the ICNIRP public exposure guidelines. The key issues for the Committee to consider are visual impact, greenbelt policies, trees and ecology issues. Any refusal on health grounds would be in clear contravention of planning policy.
and The Deputy Head of Planning advised that, although the Committee could give weight to the health aspects of the application, given that the applicant has supplied the required certification, if it were refused on health grounds, at appeal the applicant would be able to demonstrate compliance with guidelines and the Council would need its own evidence to weigh against that, and there is none that it could provide.
They were very silly to make those concerns prominent in their comments. Inspectors can tell when the arrived at reasons for refusal are a pretext when you do that.
First as in UK country in Europe to vaccinate all the oldies....
Apparently not, since we have a forty squiggillion people off the books. We're actually lagging behind France. A lad stacking the shelf at my local Co-op told me and, well, they would know.
You believe the official guess more then? Because that is all it is a guess. The truth lies between the two and there is evidence the official guess is wrong just on national insurance numbers issued.
It is a failure going back decades by both labour and tory governments we dont know how many entered and how many left
When I read your earlier claim, I laughed out loud. But then I got shushed by a voice in the cupboard. Opened it to check, and yes, there's a family living there I didn't even know about.
That's who's been easting my red-bag Doritos.
Why laugh I gave you a citation which backed what I said which was a supermarket had claimed there were more people.
The ons figure is bullshit and too low, the supermarket figure is bullshit and too high. Both are based on absolute guesswork. There are certainly more than 66 million here, there are certainly less than 80 million. The fact you only decry one claim is sad
Are they really based on the same level of guesswork?
The ons one is based on selected travellers into the country being given a questionaire to fill in at a handful of ports and airports. The answers they give are not checked. This is then extrapolated to all ports and airports to work out immigration and emigration figures. This has been widely reported and admitted.
How accurate do you believe that to be?
The supermarket and independent agricultural supplier suggestions are based on the amount of food they sell. Certainly the supermarket had reason to sex up its figure.
How accurately can you estimate how many people you are feeding?
Personally I dont believe either. ONS is too low, supermarket too high
Well, ought to be plenty easy to count once we're all chipped with the vaccine.
JOKE HAHA
While I appreciate the joke it really isn't a laughing matter. Knowing our population numbers is important for planning. How many doctors do we need, how many schools , how many hospitals etc. The fact we don't know accurately because of slip shod management by both tory and labour is lamentable. How hard would it be to count all coming in and going out accurately just in terms of numbers
You say that we know the official figure is inaccurate but don't think it is as high as 80m. What number do you think it is? Presumably whatever evidence shows the official number is inaccurate must therefore give an indication what the true figure is.
I would suspect there is probably 3 to 4 million extra in the uk than official figures indicate. That however is not based on any statistics just an educated guess, there are certainly enough to form a black economy for the below minimum wage places to run.
Out of interest, how does the supermarket know what kind of market share they have? I mean, if you know how much you sell, and you know your market share you can work out how much food is sold. But I contend that knowing the latter is really bloody difficult.
To summarise: A well-placed supermarket source will know how much THAT supermarket sells. They won't know their own market share beyond an estimate. They won't know how much food one person eats beyond an estimate. They won't know how much of the food is wasted beyond an estimate. We don't know who the source is so whether they are even well-placed is an open question.
And Farmer Parkin with his leg wrapped in polathine agrees that there's bloody immigrants everywhere.
A hidden army of workers in the black economy would need a vast amount of banknotes to keep a black economy going. They aren't doing credit cards, they aren't doing banks.
How big could it possibly be? We'd know right? If there were untold millions.
About £700 each being saved on average? Do people really think that is unusual, there will be a small but not tiny proportion who keep significant cash savings. 1 person with £35k in cash savings would cover 49 with none.
There’s a quite amazing number of people who still keep their life’s savings under the mattress, don’t trust the banking system not to run away with their money.
There was a line from Callan that Lonely did not trust banks -- they were always getting robbed, and how could you prove it was not your money that was taken? Write the numbers down?
Sure there are lots of cash businesses, some outright illegal and others merely avoiding inconvenient paperwork with HMRC but what about ordinary people? I keep £300 in cash at home so I can always pay for a cab back, and in case of local ATM breakdown. When the new £20 notes were issued so getting rid of the old ones seemed prudent, it turned out I'd actually got £1,000 in cash lying about the place. I'd expect many PBers to have more in sterling and perhaps a couple of hundred euros left over from 2019's holiday.
Comments
Dubai was also a hub for a lot of US military `development' money following the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - a lot of the US dollars went to Dubai middlemen and never really left
https://twitter.com/alanfeuer/status/1350123165557645313?s=21
It’s also ho,e to millions of expatriate workers, almost all of whom send money to their families in other parts of the world on a regular basis.
*was originally a typo, but leaving it in!
I suspect people working in a black economy are not going to be exactly sitting on a huge amount of cash either. Quite possibly, having the rent for their shared one room accommodation taken off them at source. Any "savings" they have perhaps being remitted home. Quite a hand to mouth existence. Not exactly living the dream.
It would be easy to have several million (mostly) men in their 20's/30's, hidden from the state in a twilight world of black economy, zero home ownership, only needing the NHS in extreme circumstances, not calling in the police if they get ripped off. No right to be here, maybe controlled by seriously dodgy individuals, not having any light shone on their existence, no valid passports/identity papers from home. Not on any census.
Short of an amnesty, how could you know how many there are?
In the two-page, formal resignation letter, dated 12 January, Azar recited what he saw as the administration’s key accomplishments but voiced concern that last week’s siege in Washington and Trump’s false claims of widespread voter fraud “threaten to tarnish these and other historic legacies of this administration”.
“The attacks on the Capitol were an assault on our democracy and on the tradition of peaceful transitions of power,” Azar wrote.
Do people like you describe exist? Sure. Just saying it is "easy" to have several million of them here does not make it so.
Enforcement of negative Covid tests for travellers arriving in England had to be delayed from 4am on Friday after the government only published the requirements late on Wednesday evening – a matter of hours before affected flights could have departed, leaving passengers perplexed and some paying hundreds of pounds for unnecessary paperwork.
Even now, the Business Travel Association is warning the government has yet to issue detailed information on where those travelling for work can get acceptable tests. Essential workers – medical researchers, energy suppliers and humanitarians – must, it suggests, be able to travel with confidence in procedures and in the knowledge they can return home.
There is a sense of deja vu after the similarly botched introduction of the “test to release” scheme – which still allows people arriving in the UK to apply to exit quarantine early after five days with a further negative Covid test. That scheme also had a lengthy period between announcement and implementation – and then arrived with a list of suppliers that could not deliver, to the cost and frustration of many who ended up out of pocket and in isolation.
The bigger question may yet prove to be why public health measures at the borders first promised by ministers a fortnight ago have taken two weeks to introduce, should new variants from abroad be discovered in the UK.
The transport secretary, Grant Shapps, joked on Friday he was the last person to give advice on whether people should book travel – a reference, no doubt, to the travel corridor to Spain he axed while on holiday there last year. Unfortunately, no one is better placed to answer than Shapps.
He's in trouble.
A couple of snippets from Wera's objection from the piece. It includes the 5G
crankery, which she may or may not believe:
“I am concerned about the height and visual impact of the mast in a World Heritage Site.”
“Furthermore, I am concerned about the threat to human health, to tree health and to wildlife and biodiversity.”
She said given the “widespread concern” it may be worth applying a “precautionary principle”.
Quite likely to lose on Appeal. The only cost is to the Council.
I had one of these "political noes" when we went for PP on some family land. Approval recommended by the Planning Officers. Political no in committee. Appeal won in 6 weeks flat at a cost of several thousand to the Council.
It was a coup. A shit one. But a coup nonetheless
Imagine we'll see some flooding today, given how much snow there is to melt.
That said, he does look like he was perfectly cast for the Hollywood movie on How To Fuck Up A Coup. As guy who says "We better declare martial law!"
New infections are still falling, and numbers with Covid in ICU too. There's a bit of a feeling of the calm before the storm as lockdown works and the new variants haven't reached large numbers yet. But they probably will.
On that weaselly Tweet, here is an extract from the Minutes.
Cllr Sarah Warren, local ward member, spoke against the application. She highlighted the duty of the Committee to prevent harm. She stated that some research showed that 5G can have an adverse effect on health. Electromagnetic pollution could also cause environmental harm. There was real concern from local residents regarding the effect of the 5G mast and she felt that the Committee should be cautious about approving the application.
Cllr Kevin Guy, local ward member, spoke against the application. He noted that an exclusion zone was required for areas with high levels of radiation. He pointed out that the mast would be close to a nursery school and community hall and that it would be irresponsible to approve the application.
The Case Officer then responded to questions as follows:
· Health concerns are a material consideration, however, the NPPF guidance is clear on this issue. To go against these guidelines would be going against national planning policy. The applicant has submitted a certificate of compliance with the ICNIRP public exposure guidelines. The key issues for the Committee to consider are visual impact, greenbelt policies, trees and ecology issues. Any refusal on health grounds would be in clear contravention of planning policy.
and
The Deputy Head of Planning advised that, although the Committee could give weight to the health aspects of the application, given that the applicant has supplied the required certification, if it were refused on health grounds, at appeal the applicant would be able to demonstrate compliance with guidelines and the Council would need its own evidence to weigh against that, and there is none that it could provide.
(Link to Minutes:
https://democracy.bathnes.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=26893)
On that weaselly Tweet, here is an extract from the Minutes.
Cllr Sarah Warren, local ward member, spoke against the application. She highlighted the duty of the Committee to prevent harm. She stated that some research showed that 5G can have an adverse effect on health. Electromagnetic pollution could also cause environmental harm. There was real concern from local residents regarding the effect of the 5G mast and she felt that the Committee should be cautious about approving the application.
Cllr Kevin Guy, local ward member, spoke against the application. He noted that an exclusion zone was required for areas with high levels of radiation. He pointed out that the mast would be close to a nursery school and community hall and that it would be irresponsible to approve the application.
The Case Officer then responded to questions as follows:
· Health concerns are a material consideration, however, the NPPF guidance is clear on this issue. To go against these guidelines would be going against national planning policy. The applicant has submitted a certificate of compliance with the ICNIRP public exposure guidelines. The key issues for the Committee to consider are visual impact, greenbelt policies, trees and ecology issues. Any refusal on health grounds would be in clear contravention of planning policy.
and
The Deputy Head of Planning advised that, although the Committee could give weight to the health aspects of the application, given that the applicant has supplied the required certification, if it were refused on health grounds, at appeal the applicant would be able to demonstrate compliance with guidelines and the Council would need its own evidence to weigh against that, and there is none that it could provide.
(Link to Minutes:
https://democracy.bathnes.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=26893)
That's a misunderstanding of how planning committees work. The "local members" would have spoken as "interested councillors" rather than as members of the committee. So they speak, as do residents, but do not vote. It's really common (a bit unfortunate, but common) for speakers at a planning committee to raise matters that are not relevant planning considerations and cannot be taken into account. Council officers advise councillors on the actual committee what arguments they can take into account and which they cannot, and then they decide.
Should the interested ward councillors have pandered to unfounded health concerns? No. Are these the reasons the application was rejected? Unlikely (although the applicant can appeal to the Planning Inspectorate if they feel the other reasons are bogus).
A historian on CNN yesterday suggested that the Trump surname may go down in US history alongside Benedict Arnold, and have to be removed from his buildings and businesses.
Exclusive: GPs warn of chaos as healthy patients urged to get flu jabs during Covid crisis
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/15/exclusivegps-warn-chaos-healthy-patients-urged-get-flu-jabs/
So if it proceeds (and reading the article it's going to) Trump has no way out if they find him guilty.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/01/15/insurers-must-pay-small-businesses-lockdown-losses-court-rules/
On the other hand we should also be worrying about the mutations arising in the absence of vaccine. Given that immune escape mutations tend to happen in those with extended serious illness, something considerably less likely in vaccinated individuals, it not clear where the balance of risk lies.
Though it’s certainly a valid argument against the delayed booster shots.
Although I do believe that insurance companies should follow the spirit rather than the letter of the contract unless they explicit list the exceptions.
Dept Health & Social Care Written Question, 30/11/2020, written question by Wera
"To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, if he will make it his policy to (a) publish a plan for the functioning of competent authorities to reconcile the public health and environmental effects of 5G technologies and (b) consult on that plan before the European Electronic Communications Code 2018 is transposed into UK law."
(Source: Hansard)
Why was Wera busy asking "competent authorities to reconcile the public health and environmental effects of 5G Technologies" on 30./11/2020 ?
The English is less colourful than Trump's, but the aim is the same. It is like saying: "All I am asking is for competent authorities to run safe and secure elections that all Americans want". It implies that 5G technologies are unsafe or the election is unfair.
Incidentally, Wera looks pretty accident prone. There is the business of the antisemitic tweets, and then the apology to the council officer after he threatened legal action .
She is too stupid and clumsy to be a competent MP, so I expect the next time I look she will have replaced Dead on Arrival Davey as LibDem leader.
Impeachment, even imprisonment, is unlikely to deter the extremes on the right but I have no answer how this does nor explode this week, and with many millions of followers just how long until the US returns to some recognisable form of democracy
It is just dreadful
New Thread
btwShould the interested ward councillors have pandered to unfounded health concerns? No. Are these the reasons the application was rejected? Unlikely (although the applicant can appeal to the Planning Inspectorate if they feel the other reasons are bogus).
(Block quotes not working - my reply)
I don't think I said anything about who votes. My point is that the Tweet (from the Council Leader) is attempting to portray 5G Health Threat theories as not having been relevant, whilst in fact two of the Councillors (Council Deputy Leader and another, both LD) used them as the only significant reason for objection in their addresses to the committee.
There was an extended discussion about it over on LDV before New Year:
https://www.libdemvoice.org/the-curious-tale-of-a-5g-mast-in-bath-66587.html
Including a link to the exact point where there the 2 Councillors spoke:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=12354&v=sZYpKshknso&feature=youtu.be
I think the reason for rejection was that the LDs on the Council wanted to ingratiate themselves with the anti-5G campaigners. And have been caught with their trousers slightly down. That was the main conclusion of the LDV conversation anyway.
Were I being a touch lighthearted I would say the the Councillor who's tweet was quoted needs to go on a course in Advanced Pavement Politics.
New coronavirus variants could cause more reinfections, require updated vaccines
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/01/new-coronavirus-variants-could-cause-more-reinfections-require-updated-vaccines
When the number of COVID-19 cases began to rise again in Manaus, Brazil, in December 2020, Nuno Faria was stunned. The virologist at Imperial College London and associate professor at the University of Oxford had just co-authored a paper in Science estimating that three-quarters of the city’s inhabitants had already been infected with SARS-CoV-2, the pandemic coronavirus—more than enough, it seemed, for herd immunity to develop. The virus should be done with Manaus. Yet hospitals were filling up again. “It was hard to reconcile these two things,” Faria says. He started to hunt for samples he could sequence to find out whether changes in the virus could explain the resurgence.
On 12 January, Faria and his colleagues posted their initial conclusions on the website virological.org. Thirteen of 31 samples collected in mid-December in Manaus turned out to be part of a new viral lineage they called P.1. Much more research is needed, but they say one possibility is that in some people, P.1 eludes the human immune response triggered by the lineage that ravaged the city earlier in 2020...
On that weaselly Tweet, here is an extract from the Minutes.
Cllr Sarah Warren, local ward member, spoke against the application. She highlighted the duty of the Committee to prevent harm. She stated that some research showed that 5G can have an adverse effect on health. Electromagnetic pollution could also cause environmental harm. There was real concern from local residents regarding the effect of the 5G mast and she felt that the Committee should be cautious about approving the application.
Cllr Kevin Guy, local ward member, spoke against the application. He noted that an exclusion zone was required for areas with high levels of radiation. He pointed out that the mast would be close to a nursery school and community hall and that it would be irresponsible to approve the application.
The Case Officer then responded to questions as follows:
· Health concerns are a material consideration, however, the NPPF guidance is clear on this issue. To go against these guidelines would be going against national planning policy. The applicant has submitted a certificate of compliance with the ICNIRP public exposure guidelines. The key issues for the Committee to consider are visual impact, greenbelt policies, trees and ecology issues. Any refusal on health grounds would be in clear contravention of planning policy.
and
The Deputy Head of Planning advised that, although the Committee could give weight to the health aspects of the application, given that the applicant has supplied the required certification, if it were refused on health grounds, at appeal the applicant would be able to demonstrate compliance with guidelines and the Council would need its own evidence to weigh against that, and there is none that it could provide.
(Link to Minutes:
https://democracy.bathnes.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=26893)
They were very silly to make those concerns prominent in their comments. Inspectors can tell when the arrived at reasons for refusal are a pretext when you do that.
It's being approved at appeal I think.
Sure there are lots of cash businesses, some outright illegal and others merely avoiding inconvenient paperwork with HMRC but what about ordinary people? I keep £300 in cash at home so I can always pay for a cab back, and in case of local ATM breakdown. When the new £20 notes were issued so getting rid of the old ones seemed prudent, it turned out I'd actually got £1,000 in cash lying about the place. I'd expect many PBers to have more in sterling and perhaps a couple of hundred euros left over from 2019's holiday.