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Dangerous myths – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 7 in General
imageDangerous myths – politicalbetting.com

What happened today was down to him – a President who has ignored his oath of office, who has for months deliberately cast doubt on the democratic process and trust in it, who has undermined its processes, who has spread lies about the result, who has abused the legal process to try and support his lies, who has deliberately woven a myth about his election victory being stolen from him and who has urged his supporters to fight. And now that myth has its own martyr with the shooting dead of one of the female protestors. She may have made the choice to go to the Capitol. But it is the President who should be feeling shame tonight at what his words have led to.*

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,017
    I suppose it could have been worse.
    image
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 2,966
    A Cyclefree piece with which to agree wholeheartedly (minus the bathetic barb at the end - the Trump calamity illustrates just how minor the peccadilloes of Priti Patel et al. really are).

    The old saw has rarely seemed more apt: that America is the only great power to have gone from rise to decline without an intervening period of civilization...
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,067
    I cannot find anything to disagree with Cyclefree.
    Only I think maybe it's a bit understated.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 81,377
    While most GOP Senators voted against the objection to the certification of the Arizona electors, most GOP House Representatives still voted for it



  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 15,714
    I guess they're weighing up the pros and cons. Two weeks is at once both not very long and also a very long time. Is it worth just letting his time run out?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7
    Six in ten voters see the storming of the US Capitol as a threat to democracy, but...

    Republicans: 27% threat / 68% not a threat

    That is absolutely shocking.

    One thing we repeatedly find here is as soon as any protest turns violent, the British public aren't onboard. BLM and the anti-statue toppling ones lost critical mass real fast after they turned violent. The student fees ones, they lost public support as soon as they started to smash up London on a couple of Wednesday afternoons.
  • eekeek Posts: 10,100

    A Cyclefree piece with which to agree wholeheartedly (minus the bathetic barb at the end - the Trump calamity illustrates just how minor the peccadilloes of Priti Patel et al. really are).

    The old saw has rarely seemed more apt: that America is the only great power to have gone from rise to decline without an intervening period of civilization...

    It all starts with minor peccadilloes. That's the starting point they build up from.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 63,352
    edited January 7
    tlg86 said:

    I guess they're weighing up the pros and cons. Two weeks is at once both not very long and also a very long time. Is it worth just letting his time run out?
    Not sure - I think on balance the GOP will probably opt to just let his time run out. Biden becomes president by law whatever happens on the 20th now.
    If he does go early, Pence won't pardon him. Wonder if he'll go for a self pardon. Probably not because it could interfere with him running on the GOP ticket in 2024 (The RNC could adopt that rule if they don't have it right now quickly I think).

    They probably should though, he was incapable of sending out the national guard to what was a clear emergency situation in a timely fashion. That's where the theoretical difficulties and poor choices of him being president become real live dangers to the republic.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 3,726
    edited January 7
    It very much can. A week to ten days ago, the proportion of Daily Mail comments that the coronavirus was a plot against civil liberties, and hospitals were empty, was hovering around 50%. Many of the Trump supporters also intersect with those who believe in the Great Reset, and there's plenty of British support online for him there today.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302

    It very much can. A week to ten days ago, the proportion of Daily Mail comments that the coronavirus was a plot against civil liberties, and hospitals were empty, was around the 50% mark.
    You read the daily mail comments, you must really like punishing yourself.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 34,732
    52 arrests from yesterday. Probably the most shockingly inept policing effort I have ever seen in a developed democracy.

    This is how the law falls into contempt and people have actual evidence that they are above it.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 15,312
    edited January 7
    DavidL said:

    52 arrests from yesterday. Probably the most shockingly inept policing effort I have ever seen in a developed democracy.

    This is how the law falls into contempt and people have actual evidence that they are above it.

    I hope and believe that the FBI will be pursuing as many as possible of those not yet arrested from the mulitple videos.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    A one-month state of emergency has been declared in the Japanese capital Tokyo and the surrounding area amid a rise in Covid infections, with new daily cases surging to a record of more than 7,000.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 3,726
    edited January 7

    It very much can. A week to ten days ago, the proportion of Daily Mail comments that the coronavirus was a plot against civil liberties, and hospitals were empty, was around the 50% mark.
    You read the daily mail comments, you must really like punishing yourself.
    I do quite often since 2015 or 2016, because they've consistently given me a foretaste politically, in various areas, of what's to come.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    Prime Minister Boris Johnson is to lead a Downing Street coronavirus briefing at 17:00 today.

    He will be will be joined by NHS England chief executive Simon Stevens and Brigadier Phil Prosser, who is involved with vaccine roll-out.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 8,498
    Absolutely spot on, it is difficult to lay the blame fully at a narcissistic toddler when he could not have done 10% of the damage he has done without the enablers who are perfectly bright, well educated, often legal scholars, claim to be for law and order and claim to be conservative yet have chosen lawlessness and recklessness for a mix of ambition and cowardice.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    Russia’s official Covid-19 death toll has now exceeded 60,000, according to authorities there.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 47,349
    edited January 7
    DavidL said:

    52 arrests from yesterday. Probably the most shockingly inept policing effort I have ever seen in a developed democracy.

    This is how the law falls into contempt and people have actual evidence that they are above it.

    It depends. With the amount of video evidence if the FBI add a 0 to that figure then that would be fair enough.

    Viking Chewbacca etc ought to be able to be picked up today by the FBI even if they were not yesterday.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 38,035
    HYUFD said:
    That is very good news for millions

    Long overdue
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    Staff at Fullwell Cross Medical Centre in North London are working 14-hour days three days a week giving Covid-19 vaccinations, according to GP Dr Anil Mehta.

    They deliver about 975 vaccinations in that time until the batch is gone and they wait for the next week's delivery. "This is the biggest piece of work we've done in our medical lives," he tells the BBC.

    We need to be getting this up to 7 days a week, more than 14hrs a day.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 17,156
    Well said, Cyclefree. This is about Trump and his enablers. It's been clear for ages what the former is and so the latter have no excuses. The concept of "joint enterprise" applies morally if not legally.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 11,379

    Staff at Fullwell Cross Medical Centre in North London are working 14-hour days three days a week giving Covid-19 vaccinations, according to GP Dr Anil Mehta.

    They deliver about 975 vaccinations in that time until the batch is gone and they wait for the next week's delivery. "This is the biggest piece of work we've done in our medical lives," he tells the BBC.

    We need to be getting this up to 7 days a week, more than 14hrs a day.



  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 15,678
    edited January 7
    Nice article. Many of our own politicians and supporters (across parties) have flirted with Trumpism. There is no need to name names, they know who they are. They need to back away from it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369
    HYUFD said:

    While most GOP Senators voted against the objection to the certification of the Arizona electors, most GOP House Representatives still voted for it



    Shorter terms means an earlier appointment with their voters?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 34,732

    Excellent article.

    The Republican Party has been shameful. They need a long, hard think in opposition and to do whatever they can to expunge the worst parts of Trump's legacy.

    The Democrats need to lead by drawing inspiration from the foundational myths of the USA, and build on those, and rein in their loony-wing who are more interested in attacking them.

    If we can get past that, we hopefully have the hope of a healthy democracy once more.

    Agree about the article. Disagree about your solution. One party cannot do this. Anything they do will be regarded through a partisan lens. Biden is unusual in having friends in the Republican party and a reputation for working on a bipartisan basis. He is going to need all of that. Appointing Romney to lead it might be a reasonable start.

    A new and much more comprehensive Voters Rights Act is required. One of the substantive objections to Pennsylvania was that the State had opened 200 "unauthorised" polling stations in the State. Trying to suppress the vote by restricting the ballot stations open in certain areas really should be a criminal offence akin to attempting to pervert the course of justice. The gerrymandering of boundaries in Republican led states is absurd. The challenge is to create a program for renewal that isn't just an attack on the Republican party (although they are clearly the worst offenders). Balance is going to be needed.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 10,870
    The lack of representatives' heads on pikes is a blessing, but who has ultimate authority in Washington this morning?

    The chain of command is broken.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 3,726
    edited January 7
    So in the US it seems Congress won't reconvene on Monday after all, and restrictions in Washington will contine for 15 days, through the Bifen inauguration. It seems the idea is to squeeze everything to silence.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 63,352
    edited January 7
    The oddest* part is the Trumpers (Ellis here) come out with stuff like this
    "We cannot preserve a republic if those in power fail to protect it. What happened to standing up honorably and putting God, country, family above one’s self?"~

    And you think yes, this is something everyone can agree on. Selfless devotion to the republic etc...
    Then it's followed by "The election was stolen" or words to that effect.

    And you're like WAIT WHAT ?!

    *Well not that odd

    This sort of shit was all over the GOP in the house yesterday/today
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 2,966
    HYUFD said:
    As always in these types of polls, you just have to love the 2% outliers - in this case Democrats who support an armed insurrection to prevent the inauguration of their own party's elected President :hushed:
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 8,498
    Fake news sells because it is personalised and more exciting and interesting than real news. People can live years and decades in a fake news bubble and may actually be happier than those of whose who put up with the real thing as the world becomes more orderly and clearer to them. If only their enemies could be defeated we would be living in heaven - it is not that different to fundamentalist religions.

    Just like extreme religions, it must be tackled, I don't have the answers but former insiders suggest taxing the data it relies on heavily is part of the solution.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 49
    A very good header, @Cyclefree , thank you.

    I think that the insurrectionists last night wanted and expected to be part of a coup, but we were spared that because they lacked leadership. They had, however, been given to believe that they would be lead - not only by Trump in the run-up up to and at the rally where this kicked off, but also by the words and actions of Hawley and Cruz in orchestrating the 'objections' to the vote certification. And I think those two particularly, and perhaps the other objecting Senators, need to be held accountable for what they have incited.

    I am currently reading John Prebble's The Lion in the North, covering the history of Scotland. And thinking about last night, I was struck by the comparisons to that interminable period of rebellion and counter-rebellion from, say, 1100 to 1600.

    Time after time, a group of lords would conspire against the king, thinking only of their personal gain and not of the wider impact. And then, when the rebellion was under way and they realised they couldn't win, off they'd gallop to kneel to the king and beg forgiveness. Of course, their repentance was a complete sham - the next opportunity they saw, they would recant and join another rising. Such was the role of many of the senators last night and this morning - recoiling from the protests, dropping their procedural objections while still maintaining, with an eye on the future and the base, that their central arguments were valid. And, like those Scottish lords, they abandoned those who followed them to whatever their fate might be.

    There needs to be a reckoning for their role, otherwise they will take the opportunity again when it arises, and the US might not be so lucky next time.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7
    I am very surprised that HSJ leak about London hospitals being overwhelmed in next couple of weeks (even in best case scenario and even with Nightingale open) hasn't made much bigger waves.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 17,156

    Trump takes his share of the blame, but Im afraid it takes two to tango. The Dems have been quite happy to up the heat when it suited, stand back when the mob was their mob and match Trump spin for spin.

    Me: "Hampstead please."

    Unusually Articulate Taxi Driver: "Sure, Guv. Hop in."

    Brum brum. Brum brum.

    UATD: "See that shit going down over in the States?"

    Me: "Yeah. Unbelievable. Trump is a fucking menace."

    UATD: "Not the point."

    Me: "No?"

    UATD: "No. The way I see it is that the Democrats in recent times have become infatuated with a radical woke agenda, critical race theory, white privilege, all the rest of it, which has made millions of essentially ordinary decent Americans feel like despised strangers in their own country."

    Me: "Jeez. What a counterproductive approach by the Democrats."

    UATD: "Yup. So now the payback. It was always coming. Rather than empathizing with issues important to these people this aggressive style of politics from the Left has radicalized them.

    Me: "Ok but surely -"

    UATD: "Shut up mate, let me finish. Radicalized them. Until now this. Banging on about Donald Trump misses the point. The point is, if you keep telling people they are racist lowlife scum the more spunky of them will at some point snap and kick back. Sadly."

    Me: "I see. Thanks. Food for thought at the very least. Right, this is me!"
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 8,498
    DavidL said:

    52 arrests from yesterday. Probably the most shockingly inept policing effort I have ever seen in a developed democracy.

    This is how the law falls into contempt and people have actual evidence that they are above it.

    An optimistic might point out that anyone charged is a very like recipient of a pardon. Better to gather evidence for perhaps 2 weeks or so, then charge them?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 3,726
    edited January 7
    dr_spyn said:

    The lack of representatives' heads on pikes is a blessing, but who has ultimate authority in Washington this morning?

    The chain of command is broken.

    That is the oddity. It seems as if the current arrangements, with Trump conceding that the transition will be smooth, and Washington apparently locked down through the transition, are designed to draw attention away from that ; and smooth things ; but it's still odd.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 3,403
    edited January 7

    It very much can. A week to ten days ago, the proportion of Daily Mail comments that the coronavirus was a plot against civil liberties, and hospitals were empty, was around the 50% mark.
    You read the daily mail comments, you must really like punishing yourself.
    Below the line comments everywhere should be avoided. Except here of course. I used to really w joy the novelty of commenting on Slate in the late 90s/early 00s. I briefly attempted joining the political “blogosphere” which was, predictably, a disaster. Most online discourse went to shit when FB was rolled out.

    Of course some say the rot started to set in in September 1993... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369
    HYUFD said:
    It's barely crack of dawn in the US - these polls are done in the middle of the night - what is it with you and patently unreliable data?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 3,403

    DavidL said:

    52 arrests from yesterday. Probably the most shockingly inept policing effort I have ever seen in a developed democracy.

    This is how the law falls into contempt and people have actual evidence that they are above it.

    It depends. With the amount of video evidence if the FBI add a 0 to that figure then that would be fair enough.

    Viking Chewbacca etc ought to be able to be picked up today by the FBI even if they were not yesterday.
    The dude who broke into Nanci Pelosi’s office gave his name, age and town of residence to the press FFS.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 8,452

    HYUFD said:
    That is very good news for millions

    Long overdue
    The entire concept of leasehold should be phased out. Introduce a right to buy for leaseholds, at a reasaonable low level.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 783

    So in the US it seems Congress won't reconvene on Monday after all, and restrictions in Washington will contine for 15 days, through the Bifen inauguration. It seems the idea is to squeeze everything to silence.

    Just waiting for Trump to tweet pictures of (the lack of) Biden's inauguration crowd against his own from 2016 as further proof that the election was stolen as no one supports Biden.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 3,726
    edited January 7
    DougSeal said:


    It very much can. A week to ten days ago, the proportion of Daily Mail comments that the coronavirus was a plot against civil liberties, and hospitals were empty, was around the 50% mark.
    You read the daily mail comments, you must really like punishing yourself.
    Below the line comments everywhere should be avoided. Except here of course. I used to really w joy the novelty of commenting on Slate in the late 90s/early 00s. I briefly attempted joining the political “blogosphere” which was, predictably, a disaster. Most online discourse went to shit when FB was rolled out.

    Of course some say the rot started to set in in September 1993... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

    The Mail comments were far more useful in working out the referendum result, and the why and how of Brexit, than almost anything else.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 5,155
    In unalloyed good news, just had £1075 off ERNIE. I'll take that in itself and as an omen for the year.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903

    Staff at Fullwell Cross Medical Centre in North London are working 14-hour days three days a week giving Covid-19 vaccinations, according to GP Dr Anil Mehta.

    They deliver about 975 vaccinations in that time until the batch is gone and they wait for the next week's delivery. "This is the biggest piece of work we've done in our medical lives," he tells the BBC.

    We need to be getting this up to 7 days a week, more than 14hrs a day.

    Yep. If there’s one box of vaccines per day, in every Parliamentary constituency, that’s 5m a week - everyone done twice by June. That should be the target, glad to see today’s briefing is including the military commander in charge of logistics.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 81,377

    HYUFD said:
    That is very good news for millions

    Long overdue
    The entire concept of leasehold should be phased out. Introduce a right to buy for leaseholds, at a reasaonable low level.
    Plus replace it with commonhold
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 47,349

    DougSeal said:


    It very much can. A week to ten days ago, the proportion of Daily Mail comments that the coronavirus was a plot against civil liberties, and hospitals were empty, was around the 50% mark.
    You read the daily mail comments, you must really like punishing yourself.
    Below the line comments everywhere should be avoided. Except here of course. I used to really w joy the novelty of commenting on Slate in the late 90s/early 00s. I briefly attempted joining the political “blogosphere” which was, predictably, a disaster. Most online discourse went to shit when FB was rolled out.

    Of course some say the rot started to set in in September 1993... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

    The Mail comments were far more useful in working out the referendum result, and the why and how of Brexit than almost anything else.
    Only if you wanted a deluded and extreme parody of it. Explains a lot about your thinking if you think Daily Mail comments are mainstream.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 81,377
    edited January 7
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:
    It's barely crack of dawn in the US - these polls are done in the middle of the night - what is it with you and patently unreliable data?
    No it was done in the day yesterday in the US by Yougov
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 17,156

    HYUFD said:

    While most GOP Senators voted against the objection to the certification of the Arizona electors, most GOP House Representatives still voted for it



    All House Republicans up for election in less than two years' time, most Senators not. And in part thanks to gerrymandering, most House Republicans sit in safe seats where their biggest challenge is winning their party primary, and so they have to appeal to the party base. Right now the Republican base belongs to Trump. In other words, a feature not a bug.
    Yep, they need to give their base a good scrub if they want to be win national elections again. Short term pain long term gain.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    edited January 7

    Russia’s official Covid-19 death toll has now exceeded 60,000, according to authorities there.

    Events in Washington proving a good day to bury Russians bad news?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 81,377
    edited January 7
    It now looks like VP Pence could even be the main moderate candidate in the 2024 GOP presidential nomination primaries, assuming Trump or Trump Jnr and Cruz are his main rivals, quite the turn of events
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 5,983

    Six in ten voters see the storming of the US Capitol as a threat to democracy, but...

    Republicans: 27% threat / 68% not a threat

    That is absolutely shocking.

    One thing we repeatedly find here is as soon as any protest turns violent, the British public aren't onboard. BLM and the anti-statue toppling ones lost critical mass real fast after they turned violent. The student fees ones, they lost public support as soon as they started to smash up London on a couple of Wednesday afternoons.

    I'd agree on the second part. Whether what we saw in the Senate was an attempted coup or a Fathers for Justice type of stunt that got out of hand is less clear.

    Look beyond the mob, beyond Trump, to obstructionists in Congress, gerrymandering and vote suppression at the state level. Look back less than 24 hours in the House and Senate to see votes against certification of November's election results. The threat to democracy is not that disorganised bunch of clowns, some in fancy dress, who invaded the Senate but the belief, especially amongst senior American Republican politicians, that the end justifies the means.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 6,733
    edited January 7
    Betfair has now declared winners in Georgia and no overall majority in the Senate. Not paid up yet though.
    EDIT: Just paid me my winnings on no overall majority.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    BBC News - Capitol siege: Trump's words 'directly led' to violence, Patel says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55571482
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 39,210
    DavidL said:

    Excellent article.

    The Republican Party has been shameful. They need a long, hard think in opposition and to do whatever they can to expunge the worst parts of Trump's legacy.

    The Democrats need to lead by drawing inspiration from the foundational myths of the USA, and build on those, and rein in their loony-wing who are more interested in attacking them.

    If we can get past that, we hopefully have the hope of a healthy democracy once more.

    Agree about the article. Disagree about your solution. One party cannot do this. Anything they do will be regarded through a partisan lens. Biden is unusual in having friends in the Republican party and a reputation for working on a bipartisan basis. He is going to need all of that. Appointing Romney to lead it might be a reasonable start.

    A new and much more comprehensive Voters Rights Act is required. One of the substantive objections to Pennsylvania was that the State had opened 200 "unauthorised" polling stations in the State. Trying to suppress the vote by restricting the ballot stations open in certain areas really should be a criminal offence akin to attempting to pervert the course of justice. The gerrymandering of boundaries in Republican led states is absurd. The challenge is to create a program for renewal that isn't just an attack on the Republican party (although they are clearly the worst offenders). Balance is going to be needed.
    Actually, I agree with all of that. So I don't think we disagree on the solution?

    My post simply reflected that the Democrats (right now) control all the wings of federal government, no matter how narrowly, so it's their move on national leadership whilst the Republicans need to sort themselves out.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 15,248

    DavidL said:

    52 arrests from yesterday. Probably the most shockingly inept policing effort I have ever seen in a developed democracy.

    This is how the law falls into contempt and people have actual evidence that they are above it.

    It depends. With the amount of video evidence if the FBI add a 0 to that figure then that would be fair enough.

    Viking Chewbacca etc ought to be able to be picked up today by the FBI even if they were not yesterday.
    Nope, the FBI should spend the next two weeks collating the various social media confessions and then pick them up on January 20th. There's no point in arresting them only for Trump to pardon them.
  • pingping Posts: 182
    HYUFD said:

    It now looks like Pence could even be the main moderate candidate in the 2024 GOP presidential nomination primaries, assuming Trump or Trump Jnr and Cruz are his main rivals, quite the turn of events

    Pence ain’t moderate.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 3,403

    HYUFD said:
    That is very good news for millions

    Long overdue
    The entire concept of leasehold should be phased out. Introduce a right to buy for leaseholds, at a reasaonable low level.
    The issue with that is any property not on the ground. If a freehold overhangs or underlies another freehold then there is no right, without an overarching title, to effect any repairs or guarantee support of the structure. If the structure collapses then the feeeholder literally owns a slice of air. At least with leasehold the landlord can be held responsible.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903

    HYUFD said:
    As always in these types of polls, you just have to love the 2% outliers - in this case Democrats who support an armed insurrection to prevent the inauguration of their own party's elected President :hushed:
    LOL. Didn’t 3% of people in a UK poll say they’d been decapitated?

    On the more serious point, 90% of Americans just want to live in peace, but there’s a very vocal few % at the extreme right and left who still number in the millions.

    The best thing would be for the 90% to just ignore them, but the media, and especially social media, have realised that covering them extensively is good for business. It’s almost as if we are watching the plot of Tomorrow Never Dies becoming reality.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 6,003

    Russia’s official Covid-19 death toll has now exceeded 60,000, according to authorities there.

    Events in Washington proving a good day to bury Russians bad news?
    You are sick
  • isamisam Posts: 34,821

    Fake news sells because it is personalised and more exciting and interesting than real news. People can live years and decades in a fake news bubble and may actually be happier than those of whose who put up with the real thing as the world becomes more orderly and clearer to them. If only their enemies could be defeated we would be living in heaven - it is not that different to fundamentalist religions.

    Just like extreme religions, it must be tackled, I don't have the answers but former insiders suggest taxing the data it relies on heavily is part of the solution.
    Years of crying wolf don't help.


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    Nearly 20,000 second doses of Covid-19 vaccines were administered between 29 December and 3 January, NHS England said.

    Need to be going at 50x that.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:
    It's barely crack of dawn in the US - these polls are done in the middle of the night - what is it with you and patently unreliable data?
    No it was done in the day yesterday in the US by Yougov
    While it was still happening? Even more unreliable. Wait and see how opinion settles
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845

    DavidL said:

    52 arrests from yesterday. Probably the most shockingly inept policing effort I have ever seen in a developed democracy.

    This is how the law falls into contempt and people have actual evidence that they are above it.

    An optimistic might point out that anyone charged is a very like recipient of a pardon. Better to gather evidence for perhaps 2 weeks or so, then charge them?
    Another reason to use the 25th would be to end further pardons. Trump could spend a fortnight pardoning anyone who has ever voted Republican of anything....
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 3,726
    edited January 7

    DougSeal said:


    It very much can. A week to ten days ago, the proportion of Daily Mail comments that the coronavirus was a plot against civil liberties, and hospitals were empty, was around the 50% mark.
    You read the daily mail comments, you must really like punishing yourself.
    Below the line comments everywhere should be avoided. Except here of course. I used to really w joy the novelty of commenting on Slate in the late 90s/early 00s. I briefly attempted joining the political “blogosphere” which was, predictably, a disaster. Most online discourse went to shit when FB was rolled out.

    Of course some say the rot started to set in in September 1993... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

    The Mail comments were far more useful in working out the referendum result, and the why and how of Brexit than almost anything else.
    Only if you wanted a deluded and extreme parody of it. Explains a lot about your thinking if you think Daily Mail comments are mainstream.
    Not at all. I felt much more sure after reading them than many of my London bubble contemporaries that the referendum would be close, and at each step they've given me a fairly useful guide to what the government priorities and messaging would be in the Brexit process just a few months later.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 6,005
    kinabalu said:

    Trump takes his share of the blame, but Im afraid it takes two to tango. The Dems have been quite happy to up the heat when it suited, stand back when the mob was their mob and match Trump spin for spin.

    Me: "Hampstead please."

    Unusually Articulate Taxi Driver: "Sure, Guv. Hop in."

    Brum brum. Brum brum.

    UATD: "See that shit going down over in the States?"

    Me: "Yeah. Unbelievable. Trump is a fucking menace."

    UATD: "Not the point."

    Me: "No?"

    UATD: "No. The way I see it is that the Democrats in recent times have become infatuated with a radical woke agenda, critical race theory, white privilege, all the rest of it, which has made millions of essentially ordinary decent Americans feel like despised strangers in their own country."

    Me: "Jeez. What a counterproductive approach by the Democrats."

    UATD: "Yup. So now the payback. It was always coming. Rather than empathizing with issues important to these people this aggressive style of politics from the Left has radicalized them.

    Me: "Ok but surely -"

    UATD: "Shut up mate, let me finish. Radicalized them. Until now this. Banging on about Donald Trump misses the point. The point is, if you keep telling people they are racist lowlife scum the more spunky of them will at some point snap and kick back. Sadly."

    Me: "I see. Thanks. Food for thought at the very least. Right, this is me!"
    He spoke good English for an Albanian.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 38,775
    One of the questions for the historians to ponder over. Trump says in his statement that he won and the "facts bear me out".

    Does he really believe the facts bear him out - in which case he is clinically ill with some kind of delusion disorder or is he just a complete and utter liar?

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 8,498
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    While most GOP Senators voted against the objection to the certification of the Arizona electors, most GOP House Representatives still voted for it



    Shorter terms means an earlier appointment with their voters?
    A factor but more to do with partisanship within a district likely to be much stronger than within a state. Getting rid of primaries would improve things dramatically. Hopefully they don't ever take off here.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 34,494
    kinabalu said:

    Trump takes his share of the blame, but Im afraid it takes two to tango. The Dems have been quite happy to up the heat when it suited, stand back when the mob was their mob and match Trump spin for spin.

    Me: "Hampstead please."

    Unusually Articulate Taxi Driver: "Sure, Guv. Hop in."

    Brum brum. Brum brum.

    UATD: "See that shit going down over in the States?"

    Me: "Yeah. Unbelievable. Trump is a fucking menace."

    UATD: "Not the point."

    Me: "No?"

    UATD: "No. The way I see it is that the Democrats in recent times have become infatuated with a radical woke agenda, critical race theory, white privilege, all the rest of it, which has made millions of essentially ordinary decent Americans feel like despised strangers in their own country."

    Me: "Jeez. What a counterproductive approach by the Democrats."

    UATD: "Yup. So now the payback. It was always coming. Rather than empathizing with issues important to these people this aggressive style of politics from the Left has radicalized them.

    Me: "Ok but surely -"

    UATD: "Shut up mate, let me finish. Radicalized them. Until now this. Banging on about Donald Trump misses the point. The point is, if you keep telling people they are racist lowlife scum the more spunky of them will at some point snap and kick back. Sadly."

    Me: "I see. Thanks. Food for thought at the very least. Right, this is me!"
    Well, at least we can be sure you're not SeanT. Otherwise UATD would stand for 'Unnamed Albanian Tax Driver.'
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 63,352
    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    It now looks like Pence could even be the main moderate candidate in the 2024 GOP presidential nomination primaries, assuming Trump or Trump Jnr and Cruz are his main rivals, quite the turn of events

    Pence ain’t moderate.
    He is compared to most of the GOP in the House now :D
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    That is very good news for millions

    Long overdue
    The entire concept of leasehold should be phased out. Introduce a right to buy for leaseholds, at a reasaonable low level.
    The issue with that is any property not on the ground. If a freehold overhangs or underlies another freehold then there is no right, without an overarching title, to effect any repairs or guarantee support of the structure. If the structure collapses then the feeeholder literally owns a slice of air. At least with leasehold the landlord can be held responsible.
    Isn't that supposed to be a shared freehold?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 2,711
    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    It now looks like Pence could even be the main moderate candidate in the 2024 GOP presidential nomination primaries, assuming Trump or Trump Jnr and Cruz are his main rivals, quite the turn of events

    Pence ain’t moderate.
    The trouble is it all becomes relative doesn't it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 15,714

    One of the questions for the historians to ponder over. Trump says in his statement that he won and the "facts bear me out".

    Does he really believe the facts bear him out - in which case he is clinically ill with some kind of delusion disorder or is he just a complete and utter liar?

    The latter.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 346
    IshmaelZ said:

    In unalloyed good news, just had £1075 off ERNIE. I'll take that in itself and as an omen for the year.

    Why is your milkman giving you such a refund? ... :smiley:
  • MattWMattW Posts: 4,904
    edited January 7
    IanB2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:
    That is very good news for millions

    Long overdue
    The entire concept of leasehold should be phased out. Introduce a right to buy for leaseholds, at a reasaonable low level.
    The issue with that is any property not on the ground. If a freehold overhangs or underlies another freehold then there is no right, without an overarching title, to effect any repairs or guarantee support of the structure. If the structure collapses then the feeeholder literally owns a slice of air. At least with leasehold the landlord can be held responsible.
    Isn't that supposed to be a shared freehold?
    It might be a flying freehold :smile:

    But if it had been supported I would have expected it to obtain a "right to support" through time. Unless there is an exception to the principle.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 6,003

    DougSeal said:


    It very much can. A week to ten days ago, the proportion of Daily Mail comments that the coronavirus was a plot against civil liberties, and hospitals were empty, was around the 50% mark.
    You read the daily mail comments, you must really like punishing yourself.
    Below the line comments everywhere should be avoided. Except here of course. I used to really w joy the novelty of commenting on Slate in the late 90s/early 00s. I briefly attempted joining the political “blogosphere” which was, predictably, a disaster. Most online discourse went to shit when FB was rolled out.

    Of course some say the rot started to set in in September 1993... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

    The Mail comments were far more useful in working out the referendum result, and the why and how of Brexit than almost anything else.
    Only if you wanted a deluded and extreme parody of it. Explains a lot about your thinking if you think Daily Mail comments are mainstream.
    Based on your stated beliefs I would have thought you would have been an avid Daily Mail reader. Perhaps it is not right wing enough for you? The Express perhaps more to your taste?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 15,678
    Fox News, Daily Mail, Breitbart and numerous over small outlets have all played a part in this culture.
  • isamisam Posts: 34,821
    Scott_xP said:
    The thinking behind my theory that the candidate with more personality has a big advantage that VI polls miss. Modern life is all about killer soundbites and image, and there are more people are fooled by them than bother to really think
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 34,494
    DougSeal said:

    DavidL said:

    52 arrests from yesterday. Probably the most shockingly inept policing effort I have ever seen in a developed democracy.

    This is how the law falls into contempt and people have actual evidence that they are above it.

    It depends. With the amount of video evidence if the FBI add a 0 to that figure then that would be fair enough.

    Viking Chewbacca etc ought to be able to be picked up today by the FBI even if they were not yesterday.
    The dude who broke into Nanci Pelosi’s office gave his name, age and town of residence to the press FFS.
    When they throw the switch on the chair, that will deserve a truly special Darwin Award.

    'Hi. I've just committed high treason and insurrection. The Feds will never find me though.'

    Reporter: 'Wow. That's amazing. How do we get hold of you to follow up?'

    'This is my name and address.'
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 8,498

    BBC News - Capitol siege: Trump's words 'directly led' to violence, Patel says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55571482

    The govt have done well on this and reflected the views of most of the British people for once. Good work.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 2,966
    kinabalu said:

    Trump takes his share of the blame, but Im afraid it takes two to tango. The Dems have been quite happy to up the heat when it suited, stand back when the mob was their mob and match Trump spin for spin.

    Me: "Hampstead please."

    Unusually Articulate Taxi Driver: "Sure, Guv. Hop in."

    Brum brum. Brum brum.

    UATD: "See that shit going down over in the States?"

    Me: "Yeah. Unbelievable. Trump is a fucking menace."

    UATD: "Not the point."

    Me: "No?"

    UATD: "No. The way I see it is that the Democrats in recent times have become infatuated with a radical woke agenda, critical race theory, white privilege, all the rest of it, which has made millions of essentially ordinary decent Americans feel like despised strangers in their own country."

    Me: "Jeez. What a counterproductive approach by the Democrats."

    UATD: "Yup. So now the payback. It was always coming. Rather than empathizing with issues important to these people this aggressive style of politics from the Left has radicalized them.

    Me: "Ok but surely -"

    UATD: "Shut up mate, let me finish. Radicalized them. Until now this. Banging on about Donald Trump misses the point. The point is, if you keep telling people they are racist lowlife scum the more spunky of them will at some point snap and kick back. Sadly."

    Me: "I see. Thanks. Food for thought at the very least. Right, this is me!"
    Your learned Albanian taxi driver wouldn't be 100% wrong. There was an orgy of violent, lawless, politically-motivated destruction by the Left in the US over the summer, and it didn't take much imagination to see what a terrible precedent that set. Some of us said so at the time; others applauded the destructive mobs for their righteousness.

    I think we can settle on a principled position: use violence to achieve your political goals, and you get your head cracked by the authorities and a long spell in prison, whether you're on the Right or the Left. Nice and simple.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,722
    Number of tests done in Germany last week less than half the number done 2 weeks earlier. Positivity rate up to 16%. The number of test done is less than in the middle of August (when the positivity rate was just under 1%).

    I know there were holidays, but it seems dangerous to let this happen. And makes a bit of mockery of the new rules which prohibit people in "hotspots" (more than 200 cases per 100,000 in previous week) from travelling more than 15km from where they live.

    I've never had the impression that anyone is really in charge of the pandemic situation here, nor that there is any kind of plan.
    It's tragic because some of the earliest known outbreaks in Europe were in Germany, and they were more or less successfully kept under control by doing lots of testing, but this success was thrown away by allowing everyone to travel almost without any restrictions for the whole of February, and into March.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 47,349

    DougSeal said:


    It very much can. A week to ten days ago, the proportion of Daily Mail comments that the coronavirus was a plot against civil liberties, and hospitals were empty, was around the 50% mark.
    You read the daily mail comments, you must really like punishing yourself.
    Below the line comments everywhere should be avoided. Except here of course. I used to really w joy the novelty of commenting on Slate in the late 90s/early 00s. I briefly attempted joining the political “blogosphere” which was, predictably, a disaster. Most online discourse went to shit when FB was rolled out.

    Of course some say the rot started to set in in September 1993... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

    The Mail comments were far more useful in working out the referendum result, and the why and how of Brexit than almost anything else.
    Only if you wanted a deluded and extreme parody of it. Explains a lot about your thinking if you think Daily Mail comments are mainstream.
    Based on your stated beliefs I would have thought you would have been an avid Daily Mail reader. Perhaps it is not right wing enough for you? The Express perhaps more to your taste?
    You have made it abundantly clear you don't know, understand or care what my stated beliefs are - and instead are nothing more than a pathetic vapid troll.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 3,403

    One of the questions for the historians to ponder over. Trump says in his statement that he won and the "facts bear me out".

    Does he really believe the facts bear him out - in which case he is clinically ill with some kind of delusion disorder or is he just a complete and utter liar?

    I don’t think the dividing line between the two is that defined. Otherwise rational can, and often do, convince themselves of a truth contrary to all evidence. Does that make them liars or delusional?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    While most GOP Senators voted against the objection to the certification of the Arizona electors, most GOP House Representatives still voted for it



    Shorter terms means an earlier appointment with their voters?
    A factor but more to do with partisanship within a district likely to be much stronger than within a state. Getting rid of primaries would improve things dramatically. Hopefully they don't ever take off here.
    Merely having to persuade a tiny handful of usually elderly local party activists before you get handed a job foir life is hardly better, though. Indeed it is worse. The one time a primary system was used to select a candidate, it did at least deliver someone with some independence and thoughtfulness.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 5,983
    Barnesian said:

    Betfair has now declared winners in Georgia and no overall majority in the Senate. Not paid up yet though.
    EDIT: Just paid me my winnings on no overall majority.

    Making money off Betfair would be a lot easier if we knew when they would settle. I posted the free money Senate bets a couple of hours back on the last thread but then hesitated while working out what might stop Betfair settling, since they could already by that time have closed the markets.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 19,085

    A Cyclefree piece with which to agree wholeheartedly (minus the bathetic barb at the end - the Trump calamity illustrates just how minor the peccadilloes of Priti Patel et al. really are).

    The old saw has rarely seemed more apt: that America is the only great power to have gone from rise to decline without an intervening period of civilization...

    Minor? Really?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 11,407


    /the first couple of minutes relates to position in Ireland

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 47,349

    Nearly 20,000 second doses of Covid-19 vaccines were administered between 29 December and 3 January, NHS England said.

    Need to be going at 50x that.

    Not at 50x that of second doses.

    How many doses were given out?
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