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Powerful address to the Senate from WH2012 GOP nominee Mitt Romney – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 7 in General
imagePowerful address to the Senate from WH2012 GOP nominee Mitt Romney – politicalbetting.com

Some cabinet members are holding preliminary discussions about invoking the 25th amendment to force Trump’s removal from office, a source familiar with the matter tells CNN. It’s unclear whether the effort would ultimately be successful at this stage.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    Do NOT bet on invocation of 25th, at least not THIS year. To remove a president days before the end of his term?

    To use a word used a lot today, smells too much like a coup for comfort. That was George Bush the Elder's view, shared by many then and now, including (I'm guessing) Mike Pence.

    And WHY give Trumpsky an excuse, another "stab in the back" argument? OR turn him into a martyr?

    MUCH too good for him. Much better his last act is like his role model, Al Capone.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    Kevin McCarthy now speaking for peace and reason. Better late than never!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    US House has joined Senate in defeating objections to counting Arizona electoral votes. Note that about 40% of House Republicans voted against Trumpsky objection.

    Now House & Senate are reconvening in joint session to go through the roll-call of states, next up: Arkansas.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,354

    Do NOT bet on invocation of 25th, at least not THIS year. To remove a president days before the end of his term?

    To use a word used a lot today, smells too much like a coup for comfort. That was George Bush the Elder's view, shared by many then and now, including (I'm guessing) Mike Pence.

    And WHY give Trumpsky an excuse, another "stab in the back" argument? OR turn him into a martyr?

    MUCH too good for him. Much better his last act is like his role model, Al Capone.

    I agree

    Meanwhile Jon Ossoff confirmed as winning Georgia so the Democrats will control the Senate. Needless to say, there has been no payment yet from Betfair for my win.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,354
    I think the Republican party will take a long time to recover from this both internally and externally in the polls. I believe the Democrats are now a shoo-in for 2024.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    Kansas City Star editorial says Senator Hawley (R-MO) has “blood on his hands” for his role in helping to foment today’s unrest.

    Methinks the young cur looked a tad green around the gills tonight speaking on his "reasons" for objecting to counting Pennsylvania's electoral votes. Now the chatter on the blogs is that he's being pressured by fellow senators NOT to insist on debating for two more freaking hours his PA objection.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 8,334
    How did American politics degenerate to such an extent?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,354
    From a betting POV there may be some interesting outcomes. The Republican party is about to enter its own version of Labour in the 1980's. I genuinely think they will be out of power in all 3 legislatures (Presidency, House and Senate) for at least 8 years.

    That means the 2024 Presidency bet should be going on a Democrat. And the 2022 mid-terms will NOT see the GOP regain any control.

    These scenes will be etched into middle America's consciousness for a generation.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    A Republican House member tries to object to counting Michigan EVs - Pence asks if objection is in writing & sponsored by at least one House member and one Senator. Yes, yes and no. Objection NOT in order.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    edited January 7
    House member from Alabama rises objecting to counting Nevada EVs. BUT is NOT sponsored by US Senator. Thus NOT in order.

    Real deal will be Pennsylvania.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    House member from Pennsylvania rises objecting to counting Pennsylvania signed by 80 House members and one US Senator, namely "Bloody Hands" Hawley. Here we go.

    Joint session suspended so that both Houses can meet to debate the PA EV objection. Will be interesting to see just how much time is allowed for this, it is now 12.17 AM in Washington, DC.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    Guarantee that, except for the Trumpskyites (and even some of them) will hate Hawley for the rest of his days for forcing them to stay up WAY past their bed times feeding Trumpsky's ego and Junior Senator from Missouri's all-too-transparent ambition for even higher preferment thanks to the unwashed MAGA legions.

    Especially after such a hard day at the office, to put it mildly.

    Most especially the older members, for whom all-night sessions can be true ordeals.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 2,119

    Guarantee that, except for the Trumpskyites (and even some of them) will hate Hawley for the rest of his days for forcing them to stay up WAY past their bed times feeding Trumpsky's ego and Junior Senator from Missouri's all-too-transparent ambition for even higher preferment thanks to the unwashed MAGA legions.

    Especially after such a hard day at the office, to put it mildly.

    Most especially the older members, for whom all-night sessions can be true ordeals.

    Be nice if the new Senate under Vice President Harris votes to expel Cruz and Hawley.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 2,251

    US House has joined Senate in defeating objections to counting Arizona electoral votes. Note that about 40% of House Republicans voted against Trumpsky objection.

    Now House & Senate are reconvening in joint session to go through the roll-call of states, next up: Arkansas.

    Only 40%. That's disgraceful.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    Senate now voting on PA objection without extended debate.

    Ayes = 7 Cruz, Hawley, Hyde Smith, Lummis, Marshall, Scott (FL), Tuberville
    Nos = 92 (don't know who was not there, besides Perdue)

    McConnell says no more Senate roll calls expected, so they are going to call it a day, or rather night, except for the Senators participating in the joint session to finish counting the EVs.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    The Republicans who tonight are continuing this charade trying to overturn the votes of their fellow Americans, they think they are assuring their own political futures.

    Some are true-believer wing-nuts. But most are opportunist of one stripe or another, from super-cagey to total con-artists, just like their man Donald Trumpsky.

    After the Trumpsky-incited mob attack on the US Capitol, it takes a truly special kind of asshole to go through with this crap tonight.

    This band of cretins is the exact OPPOSITE (almost down to numbers) of the National Government MPs, all but a handful Conservatives, who in 1940, after the Norway Debate, voted against the whip and Neville Chamberlain. Because it was in the best interests of their country, which in their eyes came BEFORE party and leader.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    Pro_Rata said:

    US House has joined Senate in defeating objections to counting Arizona electoral votes. Note that about 40% of House Republicans voted against Trumpsky objection.

    Now House & Senate are reconvening in joint session to go through the roll-call of states, next up: Arkansas.

    Only 40%. That's disgraceful.
    Agree. But it's still an amazing number, and would NOT have been achieved without the help of you-know-who.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    CatMan said:
    Stopping the clock for legislative business is NOT a novel. Do NOT expect any sane judge to raise any objection.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    edited January 7
    TimT said:

    Guarantee that, except for the Trumpskyites (and even some of them) will hate Hawley for the rest of his days for forcing them to stay up WAY past their bed times feeding Trumpsky's ego and Junior Senator from Missouri's all-too-transparent ambition for even higher preferment thanks to the unwashed MAGA legions.

    Especially after such a hard day at the office, to put it mildly.

    Most especially the older members, for whom all-night sessions can be true ordeals.

    Be nice if the new Senate under Vice President Harris votes to expel Cruz and Hawley.
    History of legislative expulsions, is that the expelled almost always get re-elected. For example, John Wilkes & Adam Clayton Powell.

    Anyway, they have a perfect right to raise objections. Just as WE and others who agree with us, have a perfect right to persecute them politically to the fullest extent we can muster.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 34,793
    TimT said:

    Guarantee that, except for the Trumpskyites (and even some of them) will hate Hawley for the rest of his days for forcing them to stay up WAY past their bed times feeding Trumpsky's ego and Junior Senator from Missouri's all-too-transparent ambition for even higher preferment thanks to the unwashed MAGA legions.

    Especially after such a hard day at the office, to put it mildly.

    Most especially the older members, for whom all-night sessions can be true ordeals.

    Be nice if the new Senate under Vice President Harris votes to expel Cruz and Hawley.
    Expelling members should only be done under the most extreme of circumstances. This fails that test.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    GOPers in House speaking in support of objecting to PA EVs, are citing "constitutional questions" and the like. Which of course have been proven to be bogus as a $3 bill, in multiple courts in multiple jurisdictions at both state and federal level.

    Not to mention their general silence about the OVERT attempt to OVERTHROW the constitutional process.

    WHICH side do you think Hamilton, Madison & Jay would support, based on your reading of the Federalist Papers?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    SO is Boris gonna ban Trumpsky from British soil? OR are his balls (the PM's that is) too small and shriveled?

    IF fecking Twitter can kick him off, then surely HMG can keep him out.

    I mean, you DO have laws and regulations prohibiting importation of dangerous, vicious vermin, don't you?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 3,068
    Sandpit said:

    Are we any closer to working out how the hell a group of protestors managed to get inside the Capitol?

    Not a good look, from so many perspectives. Let’s hope the rest of the transition period passes off smoothly.

    Is the USA the only country in the world with a ten week period between the Election Day and the transfer of powers? One of the starkest images in U.K. politics is the removal van outside No.10 on the day after an election, as a defeated incumbent quite literally has to pack his or her bags and leave.

    They’re white?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    Sandpit said:

    Are we any closer to working out how the hell a group of protestors managed to get inside the Capitol?

    Not a good look, from so many perspectives. Let’s hope the rest of the transition period passes off smoothly.

    Is the USA the only country in the world with a ten week period between the Election Day and the transfer of powers? One of the starkest images in U.K. politics is the removal van outside No.10 on the day after an election, as a defeated incumbent quite literally has to pack his or her bags and leave.

    The crowd for Trumpsky's rally was actually pretty sparse. And nobody anticipated POTUS actually exhorting the mob to attack the Capitol.

    That said, clearly a MAJOR security breach, and think heads will in fact role in Capitol Police and elsewhere. Though congressional leader made a point of praising CP and other law enforcement for their actions AFTER the attack was launched and the Capitol and other offices were breached.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 3,726
    edited January 7
    "Rioters also stormed the statehouse in Kansas, reportedly moving inside the first floor of the Topeka Capitol’s rotunda before gathering in a circle, according to KSN. In St. Paul, Minnesota, a mob entered the state Capitol building and banged on the door of the House press gallery. At least a thousand protesters also gathered at the state Capitol building in Phoenix, Arizona, where some in the crowd reportedly brought a guillotine.

    “We will never recognize Joe Biden as our president, ever,” activist Stacy Gentile said to the crowd, according to the Arizona Mirror."
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 6,005
    Sandpit said:

    Are we any closer to working out how the hell a group of protestors managed to get inside the Capitol?

    Yes. The cops didn't shoot them because they weren't black.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 8,334
    edited January 7
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Are we any closer to working out how the hell a group of protestors managed to get inside the Capitol?

    Yes. The cops didn't shoot them because they weren't black.
    One of them was shot dead inside the building.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    Andy_JS said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Are we any closer to working out how the hell a group of protestors managed to get inside the Capitol?

    Yes. The cops didn't shoot them because they weren't black.
    One of them was shot dead inside the building.
    Not sure yet by whom. Or who it was who shot out the window in the door to the House chamber.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 583

    Do NOT bet on invocation of 25th, at least not THIS year. To remove a president days before the end of his term?

    To use a word used a lot today, smells too much like a coup for comfort. That was George Bush the Elder's view, shared by many then and now, including (I'm guessing) Mike Pence.

    And WHY give Trumpsky an excuse, another "stab in the back" argument? OR turn him into a martyr?

    MUCH too good for him. Much better his last act is like his role model, Al Capone.

    They do at least have to be ready to invoke the 25th at a moment's notice though, in case Trump tries anything even worse in the last two weeks.

    Cue Trump sacking anyone suspected of backing such a move. How quickly does the sacking of cabinet secretaries formally take effect? And do Acting Secretaries count?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903
    edited January 7
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Are we any closer to working out how the hell a group of protestors managed to get inside the Capitol?

    Yes. The cops didn't shoot them because they weren't black.
    Apparently there’s one protestor who was shot dead inside the building, but that’s still one hell of a breach of security.

    Twitter have locked Trump’s account, they say his words could be read as incitement to riot. :open_mouth:

    Let’s hope this is the only flash point, and he now goes away quietly.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369
    Waking up to news of four dead. Appalling.

    The light touch that some (but not all) of the law enforcement applied to this protest, compared to how they surely would have responded to more common types of protest, speaks volumes about the double standards that are alive in the US.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 63,352
    The House members STILL objecting to PA after all this. Citing the constitution and so forth - utter cretins
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,067

    Sandpit said:

    Are we any closer to working out how the hell a group of protestors managed to get inside the Capitol?

    Not a good look, from so many perspectives. Let’s hope the rest of the transition period passes off smoothly.

    Is the USA the only country in the world with a ten week period between the Election Day and the transfer of powers? One of the starkest images in U.K. politics is the removal van outside No.10 on the day after an election, as a defeated incumbent quite literally has to pack his or her bags and leave.

    The crowd for Trumpsky's rally was actually pretty sparse. And nobody anticipated POTUS actually exhorting the mob to attack the Capitol.

    That said, clearly a MAJOR security breach, and think heads will in fact role in Capitol Police and elsewhere. Though congressional leader made a point of praising CP and other law enforcement for their actions AFTER the attack was launched and the Capitol and other offices were breached.
    "Heads will roll"
    Well, maybe we should offer Washington some Beefeaters to keep order at the Hill?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    Gaussian said:

    Do NOT bet on invocation of 25th, at least not THIS year. To remove a president days before the end of his term?

    To use a word used a lot today, smells too much like a coup for comfort. That was George Bush the Elder's view, shared by many then and now, including (I'm guessing) Mike Pence.

    And WHY give Trumpsky an excuse, another "stab in the back" argument? OR turn him into a martyr?

    MUCH too good for him. Much better his last act is like his role model, Al Capone.

    They do at least have to be ready to invoke the 25th at a moment's notice though, in case Trump tries anything even worse in the last two weeks.

    Cue Trump sacking anyone suspected of backing such a move. How quickly does the sacking of cabinet secretaries formally take effect? And do Acting Secretaries count?
    "They" are gonna finesse this NOT confront directly. Just a few sweating days until Inauguration Day.

    Sort like how Al Haig held Nixon's hand, and Henry Kissinger conducted impromptu prayer meetings with him, to get keep him on the rail until he finally saw the handwriting on the wall, and signed his resignation letter.

    BTW, do NOT worry about the military. Like all other US officials, they swore their oath to the Constitution NOT Trumpsky.

    And after today, even the dumbest PFC - or lieutenant general - can tell the difference.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    edited January 7
    Rep. Conor Lamb (D-PA) " Enough has been done today to try to strip Congress of its dignity."

    Republican bully boys are trying to shout him down. Let America remember!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 8,334
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Are we any closer to working out how the hell a group of protestors managed to get inside the Capitol?

    Yes. The cops didn't shoot them because they weren't black.
    Apparently there’s one protestor who was shot dead inside the building, but that’s still one hell of a breach of security.

    Twitter have locked Trump’s account, they say his words could be read as incitement to riot. :open_mouth:

    Let’s hope this is the only flash point, and he now goes away quietly.
    A young woman called Ashli Babbitt was shot in the neck and died later.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,531
    IanB2 said:

    Waking up to news of four dead. Appalling.

    The light touch that some (but not all) of the law enforcement applied to this protest, compared to how they surely would have responded to more common types of protest, speaks volumes about the double standards that are alive in the US.

    With due respect this is NOT the time to start making talking points for Black Lives Matter out of this. Just feeds the Trumpsky attempts to grossly & unfairly shift blame for HIS actions & those of his MAGA scumbags on to BLM.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,479
    Must come as bit of a shock to the government that every child doesn’t have an iPhone 12 and unlimited internet access,
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 15,714
    nichomar said:

    Must come as bit of a shock to the government that every child doesn’t have an iPhone 12 and unlimited internet access,

    Given how desperate they were to keep schools open, I'd suggest probably not.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,722
    Interesting to see what happens to Trump's approval rating now.
    538 average has it currently at net -10.3, which is actually a bit higher than it was during most of his presidency. Will he finally start losing support now?


    “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters”
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 8,334
    edited January 7
    Trump ought to leave office now after yesterday.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903
    kamski said:

    Interesting to see what happens to Trump's approval rating now.
    538 average has it currently at net -10.3, which is actually a bit higher than it was during most of his presidency. Will he finally start losing support now?


    “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters”

    Who cares about Trump’s approval rating, he’s a nobody a fortnight from now.

    Everyone needs to ignore him completely, let him live out his life wherever he wishes and deny him the oxygen of publicity that he’s craved his whole life.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,992
    I see the GOP fuckers in Congress are going with "False Flag! FALSE FLAG!"
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 24,349
    Andy_JS said:

    How did American politics degenerate to such an extent?

    Wokies' fault apparently
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 24,349
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Are we any closer to working out how the hell a group of protestors managed to get inside the Capitol?

    Yes. The cops didn't shoot them because they weren't black.
    Apparently there’s one protestor who was shot dead inside the building, but that’s still one hell of a breach of security.
    What do you think the body count would have been if it were BLM storming the capitol. I'll take a guess at > 1.
    The only q is how many zeros
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,722
    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Interesting to see what happens to Trump's approval rating now.
    538 average has it currently at net -10.3, which is actually a bit higher than it was during most of his presidency. Will he finally start losing support now?


    “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters”

    Who cares about Trump’s approval rating, he’s a nobody a fortnight from now.

    Everyone needs to ignore him completely, let him live out his life wherever he wishes and deny him the oxygen of publicity that he’s craved his whole life.
    You do realise that the majority of Republican House members just voted to reject Biden's win?
    Trump is just a typical Republican - he's just been a bit more open about it, a bit more crass, and a bit more inept. In that sense he's just exposed the Republican party for what it already was. The fact that 40% still support this is pretty worrying.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845

    "Rioters also stormed the statehouse in Kansas, reportedly moving inside the first floor of the Topeka Capitol’s rotunda before gathering in a circle, according to KSN. In St. Paul, Minnesota, a mob entered the state Capitol building and banged on the door of the House press gallery. At least a thousand protesters also gathered at the state Capitol building in Phoenix, Arizona, where some in the crowd reportedly brought a guillotine.

    That's quite an accessory for a day out. "Sandwiches - tick. Bottled water - uh-huh. Sun-block. Yep. Guillotine. Now - which size to pack..."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 28,312
    Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) put the blame for the chaos unfolding in the Capitol on Wednesday firmly on the shoulders of his Republican colleagues: "This is what you've gotten, guys," Romney was heard yelling as "mayhem unfolded in the Senate chamber, apparently addressing his colleagues who were leading the charge to press Mr. Trump's false claims of a stolen election," The New York Times
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,992
    Andy_JS said:

    How did American politics degenerate to such an extent?

    Failure to actually reform the South after 1865. And then the nature of Big Tent America politics giving the Dixiecrats a home.

    There have been inflection points - bit it is a pretty straight line from Lincoln's assassination through the end of Reconstruction in 1877, Integration of the Military in 1948, the Civil Rights act of 1964 to now.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    Nigelb said:
    Code for "This guy still has the frickin' nuclear codes!"
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,722

    "Rioters also stormed the statehouse in Kansas, reportedly moving inside the first floor of the Topeka Capitol’s rotunda before gathering in a circle, according to KSN. In St. Paul, Minnesota, a mob entered the state Capitol building and banged on the door of the House press gallery. At least a thousand protesters also gathered at the state Capitol building in Phoenix, Arizona, where some in the crowd reportedly brought a guillotine.

    That's quite an accessory for a day out. "Sandwiches - tick. Bottled water - uh-huh. Sun-block. Yep. Guillotine. Now - which size to pack..."
    Size does matter - my dad spent the last extra UK holiday for whatever royal wedding it was making a guillotine, but it was only about 30cm tall...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,992
    So the majority of arrest were for breaking curfew not breaking in.

    Over under on how many of those were "Black person trying to get home from work?"
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 31,111
    IanB2 said:

    Waking up to news of four dead. Appalling.

    The light touch that some (but not all) of the law enforcement applied to this protest, compared to how they surely would have responded to more common types of protest, speaks volumes about the double standards that are alive in the US.

    Extremely striking the difference between that and the BLM protest , there police and National guard waded in and pepper sprayed and beat up everyone in sight. Took them some amount of time to even get police and national guard organised on this one.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,992
    To be fair to the police in Washington DC they could have never seen this coming at so it was totally unsurprising they were unrepared

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903
    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Interesting to see what happens to Trump's approval rating now.
    538 average has it currently at net -10.3, which is actually a bit higher than it was during most of his presidency. Will he finally start losing support now?


    “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters”

    Who cares about Trump’s approval rating, he’s a nobody a fortnight from now.

    Everyone needs to ignore him completely, let him live out his life wherever he wishes and deny him the oxygen of publicity that he’s craved his whole life.
    You do realise that the majority of Republican House members just voted to reject Biden's win?
    Trump is just a typical Republican - he's just been a bit more open about it, a bit more crass, and a bit more inept. In that sense he's just exposed the Republican party for what it already was. The fact that 40% still support this is pretty worrying.
    Biden won, and both the House and Senate agree that Biden won. Trump will leave office on 20th, Dems will control all three elected offices and we can all move on from the last four years.

    That’s of course if America wants to move on - or does it want to continue the division?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,722
    I see hotshot lawyer Rudy is doing his best to lighten the mood with his comedy routine:



    but I don't think he'll ever beat the comedy gold of Four Seasons Total Landscaping, that was genius.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 24,349
    Sumpers being silenced on R4 again.
    Students' right to break lockdown to travel to get back to their course this time.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 2,466
    rcs1000 said:

    TimT said:

    Guarantee that, except for the Trumpskyites (and even some of them) will hate Hawley for the rest of his days for forcing them to stay up WAY past their bed times feeding Trumpsky's ego and Junior Senator from Missouri's all-too-transparent ambition for even higher preferment thanks to the unwashed MAGA legions.

    Especially after such a hard day at the office, to put it mildly.

    Most especially the older members, for whom all-night sessions can be true ordeals.

    Be nice if the new Senate under Vice President Harris votes to expel Cruz and Hawley.
    Expelling members should only be done under the most extreme of circumstances. This fails that test.
    The institution has to protect itself from those who would destroy it.

    Those Republicans who are objecting to the election result, even now after they've had a warning of where such objections will lead, are trying to destroy the institutions of democracy as surely as Xi is in Hong Kong.

    If not now then when?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 20,920

    Andy_JS said:

    How did American politics degenerate to such an extent?

    Wokies' fault apparently
    Indeed there were a number of PB regulars taking that line.

  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,722
    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Interesting to see what happens to Trump's approval rating now.
    538 average has it currently at net -10.3, which is actually a bit higher than it was during most of his presidency. Will he finally start losing support now?


    “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters”

    Who cares about Trump’s approval rating, he’s a nobody a fortnight from now.

    Everyone needs to ignore him completely, let him live out his life wherever he wishes and deny him the oxygen of publicity that he’s craved his whole life.
    You do realise that the majority of Republican House members just voted to reject Biden's win?
    Trump is just a typical Republican - he's just been a bit more open about it, a bit more crass, and a bit more inept. In that sense he's just exposed the Republican party for what it already was. The fact that 40% still support this is pretty worrying.
    Biden won, and both the House and Senate agree that Biden won. Trump will leave office on 20th, Dems will control all three elected offices and we can all move on from the last four years.

    That’s of course if America wants to move on - or does it want to continue the division?
    Well I hope you're right, but the way most R House members are effectively voting for a coup is not that encouraging.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 2,466
    edited January 7
    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Interesting to see what happens to Trump's approval rating now.
    538 average has it currently at net -10.3, which is actually a bit higher than it was during most of his presidency. Will he finally start losing support now?


    “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters”

    Who cares about Trump’s approval rating, he’s a nobody a fortnight from now.

    Everyone needs to ignore him completely, let him live out his life wherever he wishes and deny him the oxygen of publicity that he’s craved his whole life.
    You do realise that the majority of Republican House members just voted to reject Biden's win?
    Trump is just a typical Republican - he's just been a bit more open about it, a bit more crass, and a bit more inept. In that sense he's just exposed the Republican party for what it already was. The fact that 40% still support this is pretty worrying.
    Biden won, and both the House and Senate agree that Biden won. Trump will leave office on 20th, Dems will control all three elected offices and we can all move on from the last four years.

    That’s of course if America wants to move on - or does it want to continue the division?
    One of the reasons the situation is so bad is that Democrats "moved on" from other previous attempts by Republicans to subvert democracy.

    If one side backs a coup then you have to defeat them utterly. There's no moving on from that until you do.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 4,904
    edited January 7
    Missed from FPPPT

    For @IanB2
    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Do any wine buffs know whether Barossa Valley Shiraz is any good?

    Laithwaites are trying to sell me a case at half price.

    Barossa is recognised as a premier area for Shiraz, and produces a lot of good quality wine, especially where there are older vines that survived the vine pulling incentives of twenty years back.

    I did my wine qualification online with Laithwaites during the first lockdown, and they’re a good company with some good quality wines on their list. However as a principally online/mail order firm they do rely on selling a lot of plonk cheaply to attract new customers. If you are looking for quality it is generally better to look at their mid-range wines rather than the offers.
    Cheers.

    Price reduction for 12 bottles is from an alleged £275 to £138 :smile:

    Mid-range? Certainly not plonk (in my universe).

    I am not Sean T, or Deirdre as he may be currently.
    Do you have a link to the actual case?
    This is the one I ordered:
    https://www.laithwaites.co.uk/product/C05684

    Seems to still be there.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369
    This Downfall parody does seem more realistic than most. We just await the footage from the bunker.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 5,830
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How did American politics degenerate to such an extent?

    Wokies' fault apparently
    Indeed there were a number of PB regulars taking that line.

    Probably the most disturbing set of contributions in PB history, frankly. Probably best we draw a veil.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 4,904
    Morning all.

    Delighted to say I was writing a design report for someone's house, so I missed most of the drama.

    Here's to the asap defenestration of Mr Trumpton.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,049
    Sandpit said:

    Are we any closer to working out how the hell a group of protestors managed to get inside the Capitol?

    Not a good look, from so many perspectives. Let’s hope the rest of the transition period passes off smoothly.

    Is the USA the only country in the world with a ten week period between the Election Day and the transfer of powers? One of the starkest images in U.K. politics is the removal van outside No.10 on the day after an election, as a defeated incumbent quite literally has to pack his or her bags and leave.

    Ten weeks is nothing unusual for democracies. In Belgium it was once 18 months and after the last German general election it took 6 months for a new government to be agreed. The shortest wait possible for a new chancellor to be sworn in would be over 2 weeks, because the new parliament has to vote the new chancellor in, and so the new parliament has to convene, and that whole be a election result that has not yet occurred in the history of the federal Republic of Germany.

    The situation in the UK is extremely quick. Within 8 hours after a returning officer announces the result confirming an overall majority, the PM can take office, he nominates a chancellor with immediate effect, who implements a structural change with immediate effect. I'm sure there are other countries where that can also happen, but it is at the extreme end of the spectrum.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369
    Only 43 house Reps opposing the PA objection
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 3,068
    IanB2 said:

    Only 43 house Reps opposing the PA objection

    The party deserves to be electorally obliterated. It no longer supports democracy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 50,909
    eristdoof said:

    Sandpit said:

    Are we any closer to working out how the hell a group of protestors managed to get inside the Capitol?

    Not a good look, from so many perspectives. Let’s hope the rest of the transition period passes off smoothly.

    Is the USA the only country in the world with a ten week period between the Election Day and the transfer of powers? One of the starkest images in U.K. politics is the removal van outside No.10 on the day after an election, as a defeated incumbent quite literally has to pack his or her bags and leave.

    Ten weeks is nothing unusual for democracies. In Belgium it was once 18 months and after the last German general election it took 6 months for a new government to be agreed. The shortest wait possible for a new chancellor to be sworn in would be over 2 weeks, because the new parliament has to vote the new chancellor in, and so the new parliament has to convene, and that whole be a election result that has not yet occurred in the history of the federal Republic of Germany.

    The situation in the UK is extremely quick. Within 8 hours after a returning officer announces the result confirming an overall majority, the PM can take office, he nominates a chancellor with immediate effect, who implements a structural change with immediate effect. I'm sure there are other countries where that can also happen, but it is at the extreme end of the spectrum.
    But there is nothing to agree here. Biden won the election.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 185
    edited January 7
    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How did American politics degenerate to such an extent?

    Failure to actually reform the South after 1865. And then the nature of Big Tent America politics giving the Dixiecrats a home.

    There have been inflection points - bit it is a pretty straight line from Lincoln's assassination through the end of Reconstruction in 1877, Integration of the Military in 1948, the Civil Rights act of 1964 to now.
    I find these points interesting. Perhaps you could develop them more fully in a future thread heading?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Interesting to see what happens to Trump's approval rating now.
    538 average has it currently at net -10.3, which is actually a bit higher than it was during most of his presidency. Will he finally start losing support now?


    “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters”

    Who cares about Trump’s approval rating, he’s a nobody a fortnight from now.

    Everyone needs to ignore him completely, let him live out his life wherever he wishes and deny him the oxygen of publicity that he’s craved his whole life.
    You do realise that the majority of Republican House members just voted to reject Biden's win?
    Trump is just a typical Republican - he's just been a bit more open about it, a bit more crass, and a bit more inept. In that sense he's just exposed the Republican party for what it already was. The fact that 40% still support this is pretty worrying.
    Biden won, and both the House and Senate agree that Biden won. Trump will leave office on 20th, Dems will control all three elected offices and we can all move on from the last four years.

    That’s of course if America wants to move on - or does it want to continue the division?
    One of the reasons the situation is so bad is that Democrats "moved on" from other previous attempts by Republicans to subvert democracy.

    If one side backs a coup then you have to defeat them utterly. There's no moving on from that until you do.
    America needs to look long and hard at how badly it is served by the electoral college mechanism, that allows losers of the popular vote to still become their President. Even if changing that would have delivered President Hillary Clinton. It's not exactly providing checks and balances when it leads to Congress being stormed.

    And a 10 week transfer of power in a digital age is just nuts.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 3,726
    edited January 7
    So where are we this morning.

    Trump is apparently isolated in the White House, not allowing Pence in, seemingly having burnt all bridges with him. Several of the White House staffers are apparently trying to avoid Trump for fear of later prosecution, but many senior insiders seem to have remained onside with him, at least going on lack of public statements.

    Meanwhlle, Pence seems to have sort of special channel to giving orders. The 25th amendment has or is being talked about, and may even have been informally invoked in some way between politicians, but is not in motion.

    This is still a pretty strange and uncertain situation.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 49
    rcs1000 said:

    TimT said:

    Guarantee that, except for the Trumpskyites (and even some of them) will hate Hawley for the rest of his days for forcing them to stay up WAY past their bed times feeding Trumpsky's ego and Junior Senator from Missouri's all-too-transparent ambition for even higher preferment thanks to the unwashed MAGA legions.

    Especially after such a hard day at the office, to put it mildly.

    Most especially the older members, for whom all-night sessions can be true ordeals.

    Be nice if the new Senate under Vice President Harris votes to expel Cruz and Hawley.
    Expelling members should only be done under the most extreme of circumstances. This fails that test.
    They have just incited an act of insurrection against the Capitol. What test doesn't that pass?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903
    eristdoof said:

    Sandpit said:

    Are we any closer to working out how the hell a group of protestors managed to get inside the Capitol?

    Not a good look, from so many perspectives. Let’s hope the rest of the transition period passes off smoothly.

    Is the USA the only country in the world with a ten week period between the Election Day and the transfer of powers? One of the starkest images in U.K. politics is the removal van outside No.10 on the day after an election, as a defeated incumbent quite literally has to pack his or her bags and leave.

    Ten weeks is nothing unusual for democracies. In Belgium it was once 18 months and after the last German general election it took 6 months for a new government to be agreed. The shortest wait possible for a new chancellor to be sworn in would be over 2 weeks, because the new parliament has to vote the new chancellor in, and so the new parliament has to convene, and that whole be a election result that has not yet occurred in the history of the federal Republic of Germany.

    The situation in the UK is extremely quick. Within 8 hours after a returning officer announces the result confirming an overall majority, the PM can take office, he nominates a chancellor with immediate effect, who implements a structural change with immediate effect. I'm sure there are other countries where that can also happen, but it is at the extreme end of the spectrum.
    I remember 2010 when it took five days after an inconclusive election result, and already people were asking why so long! 1997 was brutal, as the removal vans came down Downing Street and John Major went to see the Queen in the morning, then he spent the afternoon at the Oval watching the cricket as Blair appointed his Cabinet.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 31,111
    edited January 7
    I remember when Carlotta's best friend , another TRump fan , had this trash on the go, when Tories were in love with TRump and Johnson was over brown nosing and butt licking the orange baby man
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFiAH8W4AAyWrG?format=jpg&name=small

  • felixfelix Posts: 11,539
    Alistair said:

    To be fair to the police in Washington DC they could have never seen this coming at so it was totally unsurprising they were unrepared

    Is it not their job to be ready for this sort of thing?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 2,944
    Romney, McConnell, or another Republican senator should, during any demanded debate on one of the Electoral Vote certifications, simply demand of Hawley and Cruz: "Do you still think you can control them?"
    And then sit down.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369
    edited January 7

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Interesting to see what happens to Trump's approval rating now.
    538 average has it currently at net -10.3, which is actually a bit higher than it was during most of his presidency. Will he finally start losing support now?


    “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters”

    Who cares about Trump’s approval rating, he’s a nobody a fortnight from now.

    Everyone needs to ignore him completely, let him live out his life wherever he wishes and deny him the oxygen of publicity that he’s craved his whole life.
    You do realise that the majority of Republican House members just voted to reject Biden's win?
    Trump is just a typical Republican - he's just been a bit more open about it, a bit more crass, and a bit more inept. In that sense he's just exposed the Republican party for what it already was. The fact that 40% still support this is pretty worrying.
    Biden won, and both the House and Senate agree that Biden won. Trump will leave office on 20th, Dems will control all three elected offices and we can all move on from the last four years.

    That’s of course if America wants to move on - or does it want to continue the division?
    One of the reasons the situation is so bad is that Democrats "moved on" from other previous attempts by Republicans to subvert democracy.

    If one side backs a coup then you have to defeat them utterly. There's no moving on from that until you do.
    America needs to look long and hard at how badly it is served by the electoral college mechanism, that allows losers of the popular vote to still become their President. Even if changing that would have delivered President Hillary Clinton. It's not exactly providing checks and balances when it leads to Congress being stormed.

    And a 10 week transfer of power in a digital age is just nuts.
    Our voting system has the same potential, and has demonstrated it several times in the last century.

    It was interesting that in his speech McConnell majored on the 'threat' to the EC system.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 34,732
    Even after that appalling disgrace last night 2/3 of Republican representatives vote to support the objection to the vote in Pennsylvania , 137 for the objection and 64 against. The sickness in that party goes way beyond Trump.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Interesting to see what happens to Trump's approval rating now.
    538 average has it currently at net -10.3, which is actually a bit higher than it was during most of his presidency. Will he finally start losing support now?


    “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters”

    Who cares about Trump’s approval rating, he’s a nobody a fortnight from now.

    Everyone needs to ignore him completely, let him live out his life wherever he wishes and deny him the oxygen of publicity that he’s craved his whole life.
    You do realise that the majority of Republican House members just voted to reject Biden's win?
    Trump is just a typical Republican - he's just been a bit more open about it, a bit more crass, and a bit more inept. In that sense he's just exposed the Republican party for what it already was. The fact that 40% still support this is pretty worrying.
    Biden won, and both the House and Senate agree that Biden won. Trump will leave office on 20th, Dems will control all three elected offices and we can all move on from the last four years.

    That’s of course if America wants to move on - or does it want to continue the division?
    One of the reasons the situation is so bad is that Democrats "moved on" from other previous attempts by Republicans to subvert democracy.

    If one side backs a coup then you have to defeat them utterly. There's no moving on from that until you do.
    America needs to look long and hard at how badly it is served by the electoral college mechanism, that allows losers of the popular vote to still become their President. Even if changing that would have delivered President Hillary Clinton. It's not exactly providing checks and balances when it leads to Congress being stormed.

    And a 10 week transfer of power in a digital age is just nuts.
    Our voting system has the same potential, and has demonstrated it several times in the last century.
    But we don't elect a President.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 6,005
    felix said:

    Alistair said:

    To be fair to the police in Washington DC they could have never seen this coming at so it was totally unsurprising they were unrepared

    Is it not their job to be ready for this sort of thing?
    There's two forces involved: MPD which is the Washington DC police and the Capitol Police which are responsible for building itself. Neither covered themselves in glory yesterday.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 3,726
    edited January 7
    DavidL said:

    Even after that appalling disgrace last night 2/3 of Republican representatives vote to support the objection to the vote in Pennsylvania , 137 for the objection and 64 against. The sickness in that party goes way beyond Trump.

    A bizarre situation. Still some significant Republican support for Trump, and Pence locked out of the White House but apparently with some sort of informally agreed authority that Trump no longer has.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 34,732
    felix said:

    Alistair said:

    To be fair to the police in Washington DC they could have never seen this coming at so it was totally unsurprising they were unrepared

    Is it not their job to be ready for this sort of thing?
    Although the extent of it was shocking Trump calling a rally the day that Congress was to receive and approve the votes for the electoral college was a really obvious shock point that should have been prepared for but AIUI the capitol police, all 2k of them, are Federal employees and who knows what instructions they were getting from the top? It seems to have taken an unconscionably long time for sufficient state police from Washington DC to arrive on the scene and if the National Guard were ever actually deployed I didn't see them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369

    IanB2 said:

    Waking up to news of four dead. Appalling.

    The light touch that some (but not all) of the law enforcement applied to this protest, compared to how they surely would have responded to more common types of protest, speaks volumes about the double standards that are alive in the US.

    With due respect this is NOT the time to start making talking points for Black Lives Matter out of this. Just feeds the Trumpsky attempts to grossly & unfairly shift blame for HIS actions & those of his MAGA scumbags on to BLM.
    It is unavoidable that the apparently loose and possibly co-operative security is now a big issue. BBC majored on it - and specifically the comparison with previous protest at the Capital - just half an hour ago.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 20,920
    edited January 7
    MattW said:

    Missed from FPPPT

    For @IanB2

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Do any wine buffs know whether Barossa Valley Shiraz is any good?

    Laithwaites are trying to sell me a case at half price.

    Barossa is recognised as a premier area for Shiraz, and produces a lot of good quality wine, especially where there are older vines that survived the vine pulling incentives of twenty years back.

    I did my wine qualification online with Laithwaites during the first lockdown, and they’re a good company with some good quality wines on their list. However as a principally online/mail order firm they do rely on selling a lot of plonk cheaply to attract new customers. If you are looking for quality it is generally better to look at their mid-range wines rather than the offers.
    Cheers.

    Price reduction for 12 bottles is from an alleged £275 to £138 :smile:

    Mid-range? Certainly not plonk (in my universe).

    I am not Sean T, or Deirdre as he may be currently.
    Do you have a link to the actual case?
    This is the one I ordered:
    https://www.laithwaites.co.uk/product/C05684

    Seems to still be there.
    Very strong, oakey and tannic. Personally I would find it undrinkable.
  • Must say that I enjoyed last night in an "is this really happening?" way. And its still going on - quarter past 2 in the morning and Congress is still working its way through certification.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Interesting to see what happens to Trump's approval rating now.
    538 average has it currently at net -10.3, which is actually a bit higher than it was during most of his presidency. Will he finally start losing support now?


    “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters”

    Who cares about Trump’s approval rating, he’s a nobody a fortnight from now.

    Everyone needs to ignore him completely, let him live out his life wherever he wishes and deny him the oxygen of publicity that he’s craved his whole life.
    You do realise that the majority of Republican House members just voted to reject Biden's win?
    Trump is just a typical Republican - he's just been a bit more open about it, a bit more crass, and a bit more inept. In that sense he's just exposed the Republican party for what it already was. The fact that 40% still support this is pretty worrying.
    Biden won, and both the House and Senate agree that Biden won. Trump will leave office on 20th, Dems will control all three elected offices and we can all move on from the last four years.

    That’s of course if America wants to move on - or does it want to continue the division?
    One of the reasons the situation is so bad is that Democrats "moved on" from other previous attempts by Republicans to subvert democracy.

    If one side backs a coup then you have to defeat them utterly. There's no moving on from that until you do.
    America needs to look long and hard at how badly it is served by the electoral college mechanism, that allows losers of the popular vote to still become their President. Even if changing that would have delivered President Hillary Clinton. It's not exactly providing checks and balances when it leads to Congress being stormed.

    And a 10 week transfer of power in a digital age is just nuts.
    Our voting system has the same potential, and has demonstrated it several times in the last century.
    But we don't elect a President.
    A nicety when the issue is that a majority of seats can go to the second placed party in terms of votes.
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