Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Really? I would be surprised if most bettors on here dont win every year given the quality of tips available. The vast majority of us were on a big Tory win in 2019 as it was clear value based on the numbers, not because of our political views one way or the other.
Is that true?
I thought that plenty of people thought that Boris would win, and pretty easily at that.
The question was always whether he should win; whether he would be any good at being PM once he had the job. The record is, at best, mixed, isn't it?
(Good news: the UK has lots of vaccines. Genuinely good news. Bad news: the NHS is officially on the verge of collapse because of multiple bad decisions taken throughout December.)
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Really? I would be surprised if most bettors on here dont win every year given the quality of tips available. The vast majority of us were on a big Tory win in 2019 as it was clear value based on the numbers, not because of our political views one way or the other.
Is that true?
I thought that plenty of people thought that Boris would win, and pretty easily at that.
The question was always whether he should win; whether he would be any good at being PM once he had the job. The record is, at best, mixed, isn't it?
(Good news: the UK has lots of vaccines. Genuinely good news. Bad news: the NHS is officially on the verge of collapse because of multiple bad decisions taken throughout December.)
He looks ill. Can't he sit in front of a camera without a Union Jack behind him?
Does he think he's the Queen?
What a tedious attack line. It'd resonate more if you were equally damning of Macron, Merkel etc. for appearing in front of theirs.
Even Tony when announcing we were going to war managed to talk to the nation without a set of flags behind him. This is Johnson aping Trump. Nothing more
Here's a video of Macron announcing that he was self-isolating with Covid two weeks ago. What do you notice in the background? Shurely not a pair of flags?
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
What is really fucking tiresome is the suggestion that if you think Johnson is a bit of an arse, you must secretly hate your country and want everyone in it to die horribly.
Well when people react aghast with hatred at their own country's flag and seem to take glee at the idea of things going wrong then what are we supposed to think?
He looks ill. Can't he sit in front of a camera without a Union Jack behind him?
Does he think he's the Queen?
What a tedious attack line. It'd resonate more if you were equally damning of Macron, Merkel etc. for appearing in front of theirs.
Even Tony when announcing we were going to war managed to talk to the nation without a set of flags behind him. This is Johnson aping Trump. Nothing more
Here's a video of Macron announcing that he was self-isolating with Covid two weeks ago. What do you notice in the background? Shurely not a pair of flags?
Funny times. We were being assured just this morning by the Boris-haters that we'd have to wait days for him to announce what he has announced today.
We now stand a good chance of coming out of Covid weeks before many EU countries. If Boris pulls that off, there is going to be a wailing and a gnashing of teeth and rending of garments of Biblical proportions....
It was variously Boris himself, and Boris sidekicks briefing the Telegraph, who indicated that it would be days before a decision was made. Let's all celebrate his inability to formulate a plan and stick to it for three minutes.
"Almost the only people who think Johnson a nice guy are those who do not know him." Max Hastings.
Who the fuck wants a "nice" Prime Minister? If it is a question of us or the Germans taking delivery of the next batch of the vaccine, this is who I want going in on behalf of our NHS:
He looks ill. Can't he sit in front of a camera without a Union Jack behind him?
Does he think he's the Queen?
What a tedious attack line. It'd resonate more if you were equally damning of Macron, Merkel etc. for appearing in front of theirs.
Even Tony when announcing we were going to war managed to talk to the nation without a set of flags behind him. This is Johnson aping Trump. Nothing more
Here's a video of Macron announcing that he was self-isolating with Covid two weeks ago. What do you notice in the background? Shurely not a pair of flags?
Yes, but they are a long way back, as though he's embarrassed about it.
I must say, the flag talk this evening has been hilarious, as there's the people just having fun about it, and the people taking it really seriously. Politicians stand in front of flags sometimes, the good ones and the bad ones, everyone just relax, you cannot decide some who do it are ok and others are not.
The world is very strange at the moment....Farage is now praising Tony Blair...claiming he forced government hand into going for the single dose strategy.
He did!
What wouldn't we give to have Tony around now.
Just as a point of order, the strategy of giving a single dose is widely known (both in the general context of two dose vaccines and in the specific context of COVID) & had been discussed before.
Blair took the idea and he presented it as his own.
Of course, if Blair wanted to be really generous ... he could have given the idea to SKS to present & popularize.
I first heard him say it on Boxing Day and I hadn't heard anyone say it before that.
Funny times. We were being assured just this morning by the Boris-haters that we'd have to wait days for him to announce what he has announced today.
We now stand a good chance of coming out of Covid weeks before many EU countries. If Boris pulls that off, there is going to be a wailing and a gnashing of teeth and rending of garments of Biblical proportions....
It is the job of a politician to be deep in the shit, yet come up smelling of roses.
It's the route for a successful one.
Jury's out until February/March; but there are plenty here so obviously terrified that he might just pull it off.
What a daft assumption to make.
Boris detractors are terrified Johnson will be the UK Prime Minister to eventually beat Covid? Clearly we would all prefer to die of Coronavirus to prove him wrong.
Hats off to Johnson for the procurement of the vaccine. Hats off for little else.
Jeez. He's got till 2024. If he isn't the PM to beat Covid then we've all got far bigger problems.
I was rather cumbersomely responding to @MarqueeMark's assertion that we on the left are desperate for Johnson to fail. I was suggesting in order to prove Johnson wrong we might well succumb to the virus.
He looks ill. Can't he sit in front of a camera without a Union Jack behind him?
Does he think he's the Queen?
What a tedious attack line. It'd resonate more if you were equally damning of Macron, Merkel etc. for appearing in front of theirs.
Even Tony when announcing we were going to war managed to talk to the nation without a set of flags behind him. This is Johnson aping Trump. Nothing more
Here's a video of Macron announcing that he was self-isolating with Covid two weeks ago. What do you notice in the background? Shurely not a pair of flags?
Yes, but they are a long way back, as though he's embarrassed about it.
I must say, the flag talk this evening has been hilarious, as there's the people just having fun about it, and the people taking it really seriously. Politicians stand in front of flags sometimes, the good ones and the bad ones, everyone just relax, you cannot decide some who do it are ok and others are not.
The world is very strange at the moment....Farage is now praising Tony Blair...claiming he forced government hand into going for the single dose strategy.
He did!
What wouldn't we give to have Tony around now.
Just as a point of order, the strategy of giving a single dose is widely known (both in the general context of two dose vaccines and in the specific context of COVID) & had been discussed before.
Blair took the idea and he presented it as his own.
Of course, if Blair wanted to be really generous ... he could have given the idea to SKS to present & popularize.
I first heard him say it on Boxing Day and I hadn't heard anyone say it before that.
It is possible, though they are pretty bad at doing things with it, that the government has access to more information and ideas, sooner, than we the public do.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Really? I would be surprised if most bettors on here dont win every year given the quality of tips available. The vast majority of us were on a big Tory win in 2019 as it was clear value based on the numbers, not because of our political views one way or the other.
Is that true?
I thought that plenty of people thought that Boris would win, and pretty easily at that.
The question was always whether he should win; whether he would be any good at being PM once he had the job. The record is, at best, mixed, isn't it?
(Good news: the UK has lots of vaccines. Genuinely good news. Bad news: the NHS is officially on the verge of collapse because of multiple bad decisions taken throughout December.)
As usual, you say it much better than me.
Too kind. Though you did a better job of amassing the evidence. And I had forgotten quite how strange his election campaign was. He has this reputation for being a campaigner and speaker, but what's it based on? And if you take that away, what's left apart from pure will-to-power?
He looks ill. Can't he sit in front of a camera without a Union Jack behind him?
Does he think he's the Queen?
What a tedious attack line. It'd resonate more if you were equally damning of Macron, Merkel etc. for appearing in front of theirs.
Even Tony when announcing we were going to war managed to talk to the nation without a set of flags behind him. This is Johnson aping Trump. Nothing more
Here's a video of Macron announcing that he was self-isolating with Covid two weeks ago. What do you notice in the background? Shurely not a pair of flags?
Yes, but they are a long way back, as though he's embarrassed about it.
I must say, the flag talk this evening has been hilarious, as there's the people just having fun about it, and the people taking it really seriously. Politicians stand in front of flags sometimes, the good ones and the bad ones, everyone just relax, you cannot decide some who do it are ok and others are not.
He looks ill. Can't he sit in front of a camera without a Union Jack behind him?
Does he think he's the Queen?
What a tedious attack line. It'd resonate more if you were equally damning of Macron, Merkel etc. for appearing in front of theirs.
Even Tony when announcing we were going to war managed to talk to the nation without a set of flags behind him. This is Johnson aping Trump. Nothing more
Here's a video of Macron announcing that he was self-isolating with Covid two weeks ago. What do you notice in the background? Shurely not a pair of flags?
Yes, but they are a long way back, as though he's embarrassed about it.
I must say, the flag talk this evening has been hilarious, as there's the people just having fun about it, and the people taking it really seriously. Politicians stand in front of flags sometimes, the good ones and the bad ones, everyone just relax, you cannot decide some who do it are ok and others are not.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
What is really fucking tiresome is the suggestion that if you think Johnson is a bit of an arse, you must secretly hate your country and want everyone in it to die horribly.
Well when people react aghast with hatred at their own country's flag and seem to take glee at the idea of things going wrong then what are we supposed to think?
Those are not things which have actually happened, though.
He looks ill. Can't he sit in front of a camera without a Union Jack behind him?
Does he think he's the Queen?
What a tedious attack line. It'd resonate more if you were equally damning of Macron, Merkel etc. for appearing in front of theirs.
Even Tony when announcing we were going to war managed to talk to the nation without a set of flags behind him. This is Johnson aping Trump. Nothing more
Here's a video of Macron announcing that he was self-isolating with Covid two weeks ago. What do you notice in the background? Shurely not a pair of flags?
Yes, but they are a long way back, as though he's embarrassed about it.
I must say, the flag talk this evening has been hilarious, as there's the people just having fun about it, and the people taking it really seriously. Politicians stand in front of flags sometimes, the good ones and the bad ones, everyone just relax, you cannot decide some who do it are ok and others are not.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
What is really fucking tiresome is the suggestion that if you think Johnson is a bit of an arse, you must secretly hate your country and want everyone in it to die horribly.
Well when people react aghast with hatred at their own country's flag and seem to take glee at the idea of things going wrong then what are we supposed to think?
Those are not things which have actually happened, though.
Oh really?
I think you may want to re-read posts by @Roger and others.
The world is very strange at the moment....Farage is now praising Tony Blair...claiming he forced government hand into going for the single dose strategy.
He did!
What wouldn't we give to have Tony around now.
Just as a point of order, the strategy of giving a single dose is widely known (both in the general context of two dose vaccines and in the specific context of COVID) & had been discussed before.
Blair took the idea and he presented it as his own.
Of course, if Blair wanted to be really generous ... he could have given the idea to SKS to present & popularize.
I first heard him say it on Boxing Day and I hadn't heard anyone say it before that.
It is possible, though they are pretty bad at doing things with it, that the government has access to more information and ideas, sooner, than we the public do.
There is a large scientific literature on the problem.
And the strategy has been used before in other pandemics.
Still, if people want to believe a lawyer with no epidemiological training came up with the idea ...
It is back to the time when Tony walked on water, a simpler, sweeter age.
The world is very strange at the moment....Farage is now praising Tony Blair...claiming he forced government hand into going for the single dose strategy.
He did!
What wouldn't we give to have Tony around now.
Just as a point of order, the strategy of giving a single dose is widely known (both in the general context of two dose vaccines and in the specific context of COVID) & had been discussed before.
Blair took the idea and he presented it as his own.
Of course, if Blair wanted to be really generous ... he could have given the idea to SKS to present & popularize.
I first heard him say it on Boxing Day and I hadn't heard anyone say it before that.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Yeah. But why?
I have to admit I voted for him in the two London mayoralties, but he was up against Ken “Adolf” Livingstone.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
What is really fucking tiresome is the suggestion that if you think Johnson is a bit of an arse, you must secretly hate your country and want everyone in it to die horribly.
"bit of an arse"? There are people on here tonight who have called for our freely elected PM with an 80 seat majority to be swinging on a rope beneath a London bridge.
You do not secretly hate your country.
Do you not view Johnson as a particularly mendacious and casual politician?
As a breed, I have little time for the political classes from the left or the right, however I for one, do not recall ever calling for the assassination of any politician, least of all Johnson. I would much prefer Johnson to resign and allow a grown-up like Hunt to take the wheel.
One of Loeffler's problems, is ultra-conservatives who did NOT support her in the first round, some of whom think she was beneficiary of voting "fraud" against the TRUE conservative candidate, the Republican who came in 3rd in November.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Exactly, Boris is a brilliant public speaker and charismatic campaigner, otherwise his conference speeches would not have been standing room only for the audience even before he was PM (only Heseltine came close to that) and he would not be the only Tory ever to have won the London Mayoralty and he would not have won the largest Tory general election majority since Thatcher
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Yeah. But why?
I have to admit I voted for him in the two London mayoralties, but he was up against Ken “Adolf” Livingstone.
Well there's your answer. For many people he was in the right place at the right time against the right opponent, as he was for you on those occasions.
And, reluctant though many of us are to say it, there are also people he was able to reach who others might not have, due to Brexit or just his own bumptiously optimistic way that has a certain appeal.
He attracted a certain number of people, and he put off fewer than that.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Is that right? I made money on Con Maj (on the advice of rcs1000). One of the seanTs had a meltdown in the 48 hours before the vote, but that aside I thought the result was as expected by the majority of punters here.
7 weeks won't be enough. Even if we were doing 2 million vaccinations a week starting tomorrow, that would be only 15 million people vaccinated out of 60 million plus.
So it will be for longer.
FPT (in response to @Nigelb) on the issue of government support for business.
"It's not just hospitality but retail and every other business closed and unable to trade.
When restrictions are lifted and people rush to the shops and cafes and pubs and restaurants to do all the things they've been unable to do, they're going to find many of them gone for good. This economic bounce back that people / the government are expecting: how's it going to happen with a collapse in tax revenues and increased welfare spending?."
One of Loeffler's problems, is ultra-conservatives who did NOT support her in the first round, some of whom think she was beneficiary of voting "fraud" against the TRUE conservative candidate, the Republican who came in 3rd in November.
They will just vote for Purdue then, I also suspect some African Americans will only vote for Warnock not Ossoff eg Ossoff polled 2% below Biden and trailed Purdue while Warnock won the special election 1st round
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
They'll probably be a bit off, but like with his initial testing promises, whilst it might be annoying if it is missed, if is at least close that's an impressive response.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Exactly, Boris is a brilliant public speaker and charismatic campaigner, otherwise his conference speeches would not be standing room only for the audience and he would not be the only Tory ever to have won the London Mayoralty and he would not have won the largest Tory general election majority since Thatcher
He is not a “brilliant” public speaker at all. He’s a mildly amusing comedy turn. Amusing until you realise he’s got his hand on your wife’s thigh.
I literally would not trust him to look after my children if I had to pop to the cornershop for some milk.
Funny times. We were being assured just this morning by the Boris-haters that we'd have to wait days for him to announce what he has announced today.
We now stand a good chance of coming out of Covid weeks before many EU countries. If Boris pulls that off, there is going to be a wailing and a gnashing of teeth and rending of garments of Biblical proportions....
It was variously Boris himself, and Boris sidekicks briefing the Telegraph, who indicated that it would be days before a decision was made. Let's all celebrate his inability to formulate a plan and stick to it for three minutes.
"Almost the only people who think Johnson a nice guy are those who do not know him." Max Hastings.
It would be fun to read some similarly-spiteful barbs about Mr. Hastings, but sadly no one seems to have given enough of a shit about him to make any...
Just for the data point, have you met the PM?
I have indeed. Although most of my information about him comes from people who knew him much better, and it doesn't bear out Hastings' snide nonsense.
I know several people who were on the GLA when he was mayor, and the only way their opinions differ from Hastings' is that they are more disparaging of him.
7 weeks won't be enough. Even if we were doing 2 million vaccinations a week starting tomorrow, that would be only 15 million people vaccinated out of 60 million plus.
So it will be for longer.
FPT (in response to @Nigelb) on the issue of government support for business.
"It's not just hospitality but retail and every other business closed and unable to trade.
When restrictions are lifted and people rush to the shops and cafes and pubs and restaurants to do all the things they've been unable to do, they're going to find many of them gone for good. This economic bounce back that people / the government are expecting: how's it going to happen with a collapse in tax revenues and increased welfare spending?."
We won’t be free of restrictions in that time but if the 20% most vulnerable people are protected we will be able to relax a bit. The pressure should be right off the hospitals and the morgues.
He looks ill. Can't he sit in front of a camera without a Union Jack behind him?
Does he think he's the Queen?
What a tedious attack line. It'd resonate more if you were equally damning of Macron, Merkel etc. for appearing in front of theirs.
Even Tony when announcing we were going to war managed to talk to the nation without a set of flags behind him. This is Johnson aping Trump. Nothing more
Here's a video of Macron announcing that he was self-isolating with Covid two weeks ago. What do you notice in the background? Shurely not a pair of flags?
That's ok though, Roger doesn't hate France so he has no objection to the Tricolour.
The tricolore has a fine revolutionary pedigree; it represents the Bourbon white, rent asunder so you can see the blue sky through it and stained with the blood of tyrants.
The union flag occupies that uncomfortable hinterland between BMW marketing device and symbol of genocide.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Exactly, Boris is a brilliant public speaker and charismatic campaigner, otherwise his conference speeches would not have been standing room only for the audience even before he was PM (only Heseltine came close to that) and he would not be the only Tory ever to have won the London Mayoralty and he would not have won the largest Tory general election majority since Thatcher
But he is not a "brilliant public speaker". His delivery is punctuated by "ums" and "ers" and his mangled prose and poorly constructed analogies defy his journalistic training and classical education.
That is not to say the punters don't hang on his every garbled sentence, but that does not make him a "brilliant public speaker".
He is the emperor and you are admiring his new clothes.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Exactly, Boris is a brilliant public speaker and charismatic campaigner, otherwise his conference speeches would not be standing room only for the audience and he would not be the only Tory ever to have won the London Mayoralty and he would not have won the largest Tory general election majority since Thatcher
He is not a “brilliant” public speaker at all. He’s a mildly amusing comedy turn. Amusing until you realise he’s got his hand on your wife’s thigh.
I literally would not trust him to look after my children if I had to pop to the cornershop for some milk.
The 'until you realise' is the key bit. In that he gets over the line before his opponents can do anything.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
They'll probably be a bit off, but like with his initial testing promises, whilst it might be annoying if it is missed, if is at least close that's an impressive response.
There’s no way we will be geared up to have 2m a week for most of this month but we may be catching up by the end.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Yeah. But why?
I have to admit I voted for him in the two London mayoralties, but he was up against Ken “Adolf” Livingstone.
He's been up against Ken Livingstone and Jeremy Corbyn - the leave vote.. well that's probably his best accomplishment. The opposition was quite nebulous and the leadership on the leave side no obviously one person. He's been lucky in his choice of opponents so far...
He looks ill. Can't he sit in front of a camera without a Union Jack behind him?
Does he think he's the Queen?
What a tedious attack line. It'd resonate more if you were equally damning of Macron, Merkel etc. for appearing in front of theirs.
Even Tony when announcing we were going to war managed to talk to the nation without a set of flags behind him. This is Johnson aping Trump. Nothing more
Here's a video of Macron announcing that he was self-isolating with Covid two weeks ago. What do you notice in the background? Shurely not a pair of flags?
That's ok though, Roger doesn't hate France so he has no objection to the Tricolour.
The tricolore has a fine revolutionary pedigree; it represents the Bourbon white, rent asunder so you can see the blue sky through it and stained with the blood of tyrants.
The union flag occupies that uncomfortable hinterland between BMW marketing device and symbol of genocide.
Plenty more blood than that of tyrants have stained the tricolour, I am sure. The overdone 'horror' at the Union flag is definitely an indicator of those who take flags waaaaaaaay too seriously.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Exactly, Boris is a brilliant public speaker and charismatic campaigner, otherwise his conference speeches would not have been standing room only for the audience even before he was PM (only Heseltine came close to that) and he would not be the only Tory ever to have won the London Mayoralty and he would not have won the largest Tory general election majority since Thatcher
But he is not a "brilliant public speaker". His delivery is punctuated by "ums" and "ers" and his mangled prose and poorly constructed analogies defy his journalistic training and classical education.
That is not to say the punters don't hang on his every garbled sentence, but that does not make him a "brilliant public speaker".
He is the emperor and you are admiring his new clothes.
Hmm, yes and no, I think. As you say much of the time his speech can be pretty garbled and he's definitely not the clearest and most eloquent speaker (though is capable of a degree of eloquence on occasion), but if he gets people to hang on his words, respond to him, engage with him, then it'd doing its job even if a truly great orator would sniff at his efforts. It feels like the difference between an oscar winning movie and a standard marvel movie - you can tell everyone one is a better film, and its probably true, but the latter will still make all the money.
Trump is even more stark in example, far less eloquent than Boris is and vastly more incoherent in his stream of consciousness style musings, but again, it does the job he wants it to.
He looks ill. Can't he sit in front of a camera without a Union Jack behind him?
Does he think he's the Queen?
Starmer was sitting in front of the union jack today
It proves what we on the left already knew, Starmer is a Tory.
You wouldn't catch Jezza selling out like that!
It's worse than that. It shows he's a phoney like Johnson
I don't think Johnson is a phoney when as PM he sits in front of a flag. He probably finds it perfectly normal, as does Macron.
Starmer on the other hand probably is a phoney doing it unlike them.
I've seen no evidence Starmer hates Britain or anything like that. He's a knight of the realm for goodness sake
He's just prepared to serve under those who do hate Britain?
Surely Boris hates Britain? He has made it poorer, weaker, increased separatist sentiment; and his dithering has probably contributed to tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths.
Oh push the other one.
His "dithering" government has vaccinated more than the rest of the continent put together. Why is that if the UK is dithering?
His "dithering" government has set a rod for 14 million people to have been vaccinated by 14 February; Macron has set an ambitious target for 1 million by 31 January.
Dithering my arse.
I would rather not think about Boris dithering your arse; some fantasies are too candid to be shared on PB.
He was late to lockdown in March. Relaxed too early in June. Late to respond in November. All too lax in December. And here we are again in January; late again.
Yes here we are in January with more vaccinated than the rest of the continent put together. 🤔
He's doing a better job than Merkel let alone Macron.
With more than 10,000 more deaths than France and over twice as many as Germany I'd say you have a strange method of judging 'a better job'
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
As you said, Rishi “Barrington” Sunak has been invisible for some time now.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Why is it truly incredible? The target for the flu jab was 30m this year mostly delivered in late autumn, early winter. We should be able to jab at whatever speed it is produced.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
Maybe, but your prediction is also based on the rate remaining as it currently is, which doesn't seem remotely likely. Given the increase in testing capacity, and amount of vaccines being provided, it does not seem unreasonable to think even this government is capable of a pretty sharp rise in the rate, even if not by as much as Boris hopes.
So somewhere between what he has said and late summer seems more likely, and given late Summer is August, probably quite a bit more toward the former than the latter.
7 weeks won't be enough. Even if we were doing 2 million vaccinations a week starting tomorrow, that would be only 15 million people vaccinated out of 60 million plus.
So it will be for longer.
FPT (in response to @Nigelb) on the issue of government support for business.
"It's not just hospitality but retail and every other business closed and unable to trade.
When restrictions are lifted and people rush to the shops and cafes and pubs and restaurants to do all the things they've been unable to do, they're going to find many of them gone for good. This economic bounce back that people / the government are expecting: how's it going to happen with a collapse in tax revenues and increased welfare spending?."
We won’t be free of restrictions in that time but if the 20% most vulnerable people are protected we will be able to relax a bit. The pressure should be right off the hospitals and the morgues.
The economic pressures will continue. The pressures on hospitals from all the other conditions people have - cancer care, for instance - will continue.
If we relax too soon we will be repeating - again - the same mistakes as before. With likely the same consequences.
Lockdown and vaccination need to continue until this virus is properly suppressed and the majority have been vaccinated. And there needs to be a proper business support package for the same period of time.
He looks ill. Can't he sit in front of a camera without a Union Jack behind him?
Does he think he's the Queen?
Starmer was sitting in front of the union jack today
It proves what we on the left already knew, Starmer is a Tory.
You wouldn't catch Jezza selling out like that!
It's worse than that. It shows he's a phoney like Johnson
I don't think Johnson is a phoney when as PM he sits in front of a flag. He probably finds it perfectly normal, as does Macron.
Starmer on the other hand probably is a phoney doing it unlike them.
I've seen no evidence Starmer hates Britain or anything like that. He's a knight of the realm for goodness sake
He's just prepared to serve under those who do hate Britain?
Surely Boris hates Britain? He has made it poorer, weaker, increased separatist sentiment; and his dithering has probably contributed to tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths.
Oh push the other one.
His "dithering" government has vaccinated more than the rest of the continent put together. Why is that if the UK is dithering?
His "dithering" government has set a rod for 14 million people to have been vaccinated by 14 February; Macron has set an ambitious target for 1 million by 31 January.
Dithering my arse.
I would rather not think about Boris dithering your arse; some fantasies are too candid to be shared on PB.
He was late to lockdown in March. Relaxed too early in June. Late to respond in November. All too lax in December. And here we are again in January; late again.
Yes here we are in January with more vaccinated than the rest of the continent put together. 🤔
He's doing a better job than Merkel let alone Macron.
With more than 10,000 more deaths than France and over twice as many as Germany I'd say you have a strange method of judging 'a better job'
You're talking past each other, since he was clearly referring to vaccination, which does appear to have been a better job, whilst you're looking at death rates (though France's is definitely in the same ballpark as ours, Germany's still is not).
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Exactly, Boris is a brilliant public speaker and charismatic campaigner, otherwise his conference speeches would not have been standing room only for the audience even before he was PM (only Heseltine came close to that) and he would not be the only Tory ever to have won the London Mayoralty and he would not have won the largest Tory general election majority since Thatcher
But he is not a "brilliant public speaker". His delivery is punctuated by "ums" and "ers" and his mangled prose and poorly constructed analogies defy his journalistic training and classical education.
That is not to say the punters don't hang on his every garbled sentence, but that does not make him a "brilliant public speaker".
He is the emperor and you are admiring his new clothes.
Hmm, yes and no, I think. As you say much of the time his speech can be pretty garbled and he's definitely not the clearest and most eloquent speaker (though is capable of a degree of eloquence on occasion), but if he gets people to hang on his words, respond to him, engage with him, then it'd doing its job even if a truly great orator would sniff at his efforts. It feels like the difference between an oscar winning movie and a standard marvel movie - you can tell everyone one is a better film, and its probably true, but the latter will still make all the money.
Trump is even more stark in example, far less eloquent than Boris is and vastly more incoherent in his stream of consciousness style musings, but again, it does the job he wants it to.
I was not suggesting Johnson is not the consumate politician for a dystopian world, I was merely correcting HYUFD who stated Johnson is "a brilliant public speaker". He is not.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Exactly, Boris is a brilliant public speaker and charismatic campaigner, otherwise his conference speeches would not have been standing room only for the audience even before he was PM (only Heseltine came close to that) and he would not be the only Tory ever to have won the London Mayoralty and he would not have won the largest Tory general election majority since Thatcher
But he is not a "brilliant public speaker". His delivery is punctuated by "ums" and "ers" and his mangled prose and poorly constructed analogies defy his journalistic training and classical education.
That is not to say the punters don't hang on his every garbled sentence, but that does not make him a "brilliant public speaker".
He is the emperor and you are admiring his new clothes.
Hmm, yes and no, I think. As you say much of the time his speech can be pretty garbled and he's definitely not the clearest and most eloquent speaker (though is capable of a degree of eloquence on occasion), but if he gets people to hang on his words, respond to him, engage with him, then it'd doing its job even if a truly great orator would sniff at his efforts. It feels like the difference between an oscar winning movie and a standard marvel movie - you can tell everyone one is a better film, and its probably true, but the latter will still make all the money.
Trump is even more stark in example, far less eloquent than Boris is and vastly more incoherent in his stream of consciousness style musings, but again, it does the job he wants it to.
It did the job. Until it didn't. Plus ca change. Same will befall Boris. As it did for Thatcher. And Blair. He isn't in the same league as either.
He looks ill. Can't he sit in front of a camera without a Union Jack behind him?
Does he think he's the Queen?
What a tedious attack line. It'd resonate more if you were equally damning of Macron, Merkel etc. for appearing in front of theirs.
Even Tony when announcing we were going to war managed to talk to the nation without a set of flags behind him. This is Johnson aping Trump. Nothing more
Here's a video of Macron announcing that he was self-isolating with Covid two weeks ago. What do you notice in the background? Shurely not a pair of flags?
That's ok though, Roger doesn't hate France so he has no objection to the Tricolour.
The tricolore has a fine revolutionary pedigree; it represents the Bourbon white, rent asunder so you can see the blue sky through it and stained with the blood of tyrants.
The union flag occupies that uncomfortable hinterland between BMW marketing device and symbol of genocide.
Plenty more blood than that of tyrants have stained the tricolour, I am sure. The overdone 'horror' at the Union flag is definitely an indicator of those who take flags waaaaaaaay too seriously.
Napoleon essentially ran out of Frenchmen - which is why he ended up on St Helena.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Yeah. But why?
I have to admit I voted for him in the two London mayoralties, but he was up against Ken “Adolf” Livingstone.
Well there's your answer. For many people he was in the right place at the right time against the right opponent, as he was for you on those occasions.
And, reluctant though many of us are to say it, there are also people he was able to reach who others might not have, due to Brexit or just his own bumptiously optimistic way that has a certain appeal.
He attracted a certain number of people, and he put off fewer than that.
I voted for him against Ken. I recognise now it was a mistake. Ken was indeed loathsome and intolerable by that point but I should have voted for the LD or Green. I was taken in by Boris. He presented as fairly pro-EU at the time. He certainly could not have won in London as a Leaver. Truth is he is neither a Leaver nor a Remainer, just an opportunist. I didn't spot that at the time and in any case he was quite fun and the Mayoralty wasn't much more than a ceremonial function so he fitted reasonably well in that.
His victory over Corbyn owed a great deal to the dysfunctional state of the Labour Party, so yes he has been fortunate in his opponents.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
As you said, Rishi “Barrington” Sunak has been invisible for some time now.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
Is anyone really suggesting that the rate will stay the same?
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
It's going to need a wartime effort to make it happen. I hope the government is up to it.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Why is it truly incredible? The target for the flu jab was 30m this year mostly delivered in late autumn, early winter. We should be able to jab at whatever speed it is produced.
One problem will be that, from March onwards, they will have to start doing increasing numbers of the delayed second injections.
So, even if they meet their target, and improve the rate of injection from there, with enough supply of vaccine, the number of new people injected will decline temporarily.
But if they manage to inject an average of 2.1 million a week between now and mid-February that will be a good problem to have.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
My rough estimate is that it becomes safe to reduce restrictions quite a bit once we have 25m vaccinated. By that time the deaths will be super low, and the demands on hospitals and ICU should be low enough that the virus can safely spread in the less at-risk population.
If they really do get to 14m by mid-Feb then they will be going at quite a clip, so 25m by mid-Mar is feasible. Add two weeks for immunity to build. So, *if* they meet their targets then it's not as bad as waiting for summer.
I've been thinking about this because the new restrictions (I intend to follow the law) have the practical implication of entirely confining me to home, except for one or two pharmacy visits. It's making me feel a bit claustrophobic, so I'm hoping that they do indeed keep to the target timetable.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Exactly, Boris is a brilliant public speaker and charismatic campaigner, otherwise his conference speeches would not have been standing room only for the audience even before he was PM (only Heseltine came close to that) and he would not be the only Tory ever to have won the London Mayoralty and he would not have won the largest Tory general election majority since Thatcher
But he is not a "brilliant public speaker". His delivery is punctuated by "ums" and "ers" and his mangled prose and poorly constructed analogies defy his journalistic training and classical education.
That is not to say the punters don't hang on his every garbled sentence, but that does not make him a "brilliant public speaker".
He is the emperor and you are admiring his new clothes.
Hmm, yes and no, I think. As you say much of the time his speech can be pretty garbled and he's definitely not the clearest and most eloquent speaker (though is capable of a degree of eloquence on occasion), but if he gets people to hang on his words, respond to him, engage with him, then it'd doing its job even if a truly great orator would sniff at his efforts. It feels like the difference between an oscar winning movie and a standard marvel movie - you can tell everyone one is a better film, and its probably true, but the latter will still make all the money.
Trump is even more stark in example, far less eloquent than Boris is and vastly more incoherent in his stream of consciousness style musings, but again, it does the job he wants it to.
I was not suggesting Johnson is not the consumate politician for a dystopian world, I was merely correcting HYUFD who stated Johnson is "a brilliant public speaker". He is not.
Yes, but I think it depends what you mean by 'brilliant public speaker'. It's not merely about his political skills, if his verbal delivery, chaotic as it is, is effective, is that not being a good public speaker, in one sense at least?
I mean, I haven't studied the great speeches of history. But if there is a speech that is remembered as great despite, say, structural composition issues, some poor jokes, a weak opening, etc, then do its flaws matter? Boris' delivery does not, I think, lend itself to many quotable or memorable speeches, and I personally find his schtick tiresome at this point. But if people like it, can I really say he is a poor speaker, even if on a technical level he is?
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Yeah. But why?
I have to admit I voted for him in the two London mayoralties, but he was up against Ken “Adolf” Livingstone.
Well there's your answer. For many people he was in the right place at the right time against the right opponent, as he was for you on those occasions.
And, reluctant though many of us are to say it, there are also people he was able to reach who others might not have, due to Brexit or just his own bumptiously optimistic way that has a certain appeal.
He attracted a certain number of people, and he put off fewer than that.
I voted for him against Ken. I recognise now it was a mistake. Ken was indeed loathsome and intolerable by that point but I should have voted for the LD or Green. I was taken in by Boris. He presented as fairly pro-EU at the time. He certainly could not have won in London as a Leaver. Truth is he is neither a Leaver nor a Remainer, just an opportunist. I didn't spot that at the time and in any case he was quite fun and the Mayoralty wasn't much more than a ceremonial function so he fitted reasonably well in that.
His victory over Corbyn owed a great deal to the dysfunctional state of the Labour Party, so yes he has been fortunate in his opponents.
I think he is fine in a mayoral role despite thinking he is completely unfit for national govt, even at the ministerial level let alone PM. Publicity is a big part of the London mayor role and he is very good at that side.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Exactly, Boris is a brilliant public speaker and charismatic campaigner, otherwise his conference speeches would not have been standing room only for the audience even before he was PM (only Heseltine came close to that) and he would not be the only Tory ever to have won the London Mayoralty and he would not have won the largest Tory general election majority since Thatcher
But he is not a "brilliant public speaker". His delivery is punctuated by "ums" and "ers" and his mangled prose and poorly constructed analogies defy his journalistic training and classical education.
That is not to say the punters don't hang on his every garbled sentence, but that does not make him a "brilliant public speaker".
He is the emperor and you are admiring his new clothes.
Hmm, yes and no, I think. As you say much of the time his speech can be pretty garbled and he's definitely not the clearest and most eloquent speaker (though is capable of a degree of eloquence on occasion), but if he gets people to hang on his words, respond to him, engage with him, then it'd doing its job even if a truly great orator would sniff at his efforts. It feels like the difference between an oscar winning movie and a standard marvel movie - you can tell everyone one is a better film, and its probably true, but the latter will still make all the money.
Trump is even more stark in example, far less eloquent than Boris is and vastly more incoherent in his stream of consciousness style musings, but again, it does the job he wants it to.
It did the job. Until it didn't. Plus ca change. Same will befall Boris. As it did for Thatcher. And Blair. He isn't in the same league as either.
All careers end in failure and so on and so forth. Hopefully his is sooner rather than later with not too much blowback when it happens, but like many people I've underestimated him too many times to think it as simple as he is crap but lucky.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Why is it truly incredible? The target for the flu jab was 30m this year mostly delivered in late autumn, early winter. We should be able to jab at whatever speed it is produced.
One problem will be that, from March onwards, they will have to start doing increasing numbers of the delayed second injections.
So, even if they meet their target, and improve the rate of injection from there, with enough supply of vaccine, the number of new people injected will decline temporarily.
But if they manage to inject an average of 2.1 million a week between now and mid-February that will be a good problem to have.
Hopefully there are multiple vaccines licensed and being supplied by then. Moderna might kick in around March/April for one.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
As you said, Rishi “Barrington” Sunak has been invisible for some time now.
I'm curious why.
Has he washed his hands of the economy?
Has he been sidelined?
Has he had a falling out?
Or has he gone off in a sulk?
I'm guess it's between 3 and 4. He was getting a bit too prominent.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
Maybe, but your prediction is also based on the rate remaining as it currently is, which doesn't seem remotely likely. Given the increase in testing capacity, and amount of vaccines being provided, it does not seem unreasonable to think even this government is capable of a pretty sharp rise in the rate, even if not by as much as Boris hopes.
So somewhere between what he has said and late summer seems more likely, and given late Summer is August, probably quite a bit more toward the former than the latter.
If we had everyone over 70 vaccinated, then the hospital admissions would be down by 1500 - more than half.
Deaths would be massively down - something like 80%+ I think.
The current rate of vaccination, to date, making no allowance for limited supplies of the vaccine, the steady build out of the delivery supply line etc is 50K per day.
Which is resulting in slack in the delivery system. As in running out of vaccine, not time to jab people.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
Is anyone really suggesting that the rate will stay the same?
I would hope it wouldn't be. But even so mid-February is wildly over-optimistic.
I really hope I am wrong. My daughter's business and her 4 employees depend on it. But at the moment permanent closure looks all but inevitable, especially if there is no support. When the £ runs out, it runs out and the laws on trading while insolvent have not been abolished.
Sorry to rain on everyone's parade but a bit of realism about what is happening to those who are not comfortably off with secure jobs, incomes or pensions would not go amiss on this forum.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Yeah. But why?
I have to admit I voted for him in the two London mayoralties, but he was up against Ken “Adolf” Livingstone.
Well there's your answer. For many people he was in the right place at the right time against the right opponent, as he was for you on those occasions.
And, reluctant though many of us are to say it, there are also people he was able to reach who others might not have, due to Brexit or just his own bumptiously optimistic way that has a certain appeal.
He attracted a certain number of people, and he put off fewer than that.
I voted for him against Ken. I recognise now it was a mistake. Ken was indeed loathsome and intolerable by that point but I should have voted for the LD or Green. I was taken in by Boris. He presented as fairly pro-EU at the time. He certainly could not have won in London as a Leaver. Truth is he is neither a Leaver nor a Remainer, just an opportunist. I didn't spot that at the time and in any case he was quite fun and the Mayoralty wasn't much more than a ceremonial function so he fitted reasonably well in that.
His victory over Corbyn owed a great deal to the dysfunctional state of the Labour Party, so yes he has been fortunate in his opponents.
I think he is fine in a mayoral role despite thinking he is completely unfit for national govt, even at the ministerial level let alone PM. Publicity is a big part of the London mayor role and he is very good at that side.
As a role it seems made for him, particularly as it allows a certain level of distance from national policy positions, good for the mavericks or the undisciplined, and is not as powerful a position as it looks.
7 weeks won't be enough. Even if we were doing 2 million vaccinations a week starting tomorrow, that would be only 15 million people vaccinated out of 60 million plus.
So it will be for longer.
FPT (in response to @Nigelb) on the issue of government support for business.
"It's not just hospitality but retail and every other business closed and unable to trade.
When restrictions are lifted and people rush to the shops and cafes and pubs and restaurants to do all the things they've been unable to do, they're going to find many of them gone for good. This economic bounce back that people / the government are expecting: how's it going to happen with a collapse in tax revenues and increased welfare spending?."
With all due respect @Cyclefree, while your daughter may have been completely stuffed, that is not the same as the economy's means of production having been destroyed.
Your daughter may lose all her savings - and that's utterly heartbreaking after all the work she's put in - but the building, the plates, the tables, the chairs, the oven, the kitchen equipment, etc., they all still exist. Likewise, the chef and the waiting staff, they still exist.
Someone else, someone who hasn't put the backbreaking work in, may be the person who benefits. But the pub will in all likelihood recover when restrictions are lifted. If there is demand for food and drink, and it is possible to satisfy that demand profitably, then someone will be there.
One of Loeffler's problems, is ultra-conservatives who did NOT support her in the first round, some of whom think she was beneficiary of voting "fraud" against the TRUE conservative candidate, the Republican who came in 3rd in November.
They will just vote for Purdue then, I also suspect some African Americans will only vote for Warnock not Ossoff eg Ossoff polled 2% below Biden and trailed Purdue while Warnock won the special election 1st round
Warnock got 33% in November, which was good enough for 1st place; while lion's share of Black vote went for him, clearly the two Republicans, Loeffler and Doug Collins, together captured a LOT of votes that went for Biden for President and Ossoff for the other US Senate seat.
Certainly the number of Purdue voters who skip the other race is important, and perhaps determinative. Same is true for number of (mostly Black) Warnock voters who skip the Purdue-Ossoff race.
Loeffler's support of Trumpsky's nutbaggery is aimed at winning over relunctant Trumpskyites.
As for the other side of the coin, note that a few days ago Ossoff went out of his way to criticize Loeffler - who he is NOT running against - for being photographed with a guy who turned out to be KKK.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Exactly, Boris is a brilliant public speaker and charismatic campaigner, otherwise his conference speeches would not have been standing room only for the audience even before he was PM (only Heseltine came close to that) and he would not be the only Tory ever to have won the London Mayoralty and he would not have won the largest Tory general election majority since Thatcher
But he is not a "brilliant public speaker". His delivery is punctuated by "ums" and "ers" and his mangled prose and poorly constructed analogies defy his journalistic training and classical education.
That is not to say the punters don't hang on his every garbled sentence, but that does not make him a "brilliant public speaker".
He is the emperor and you are admiring his new clothes.
Hmm, yes and no, I think. As you say much of the time his speech can be pretty garbled and he's definitely not the clearest and most eloquent speaker (though is capable of a degree of eloquence on occasion), but if he gets people to hang on his words, respond to him, engage with him, then it'd doing its job even if a truly great orator would sniff at his efforts. It feels like the difference between an oscar winning movie and a standard marvel movie - you can tell everyone one is a better film, and its probably true, but the latter will still make all the money.
Trump is even more stark in example, far less eloquent than Boris is and vastly more incoherent in his stream of consciousness style musings, but again, it does the job he wants it to.
It did the job. Until it didn't. Plus ca change. Same will befall Boris. As it did for Thatcher. And Blair. He isn't in the same league as either.
All careers end in failure and so on and so forth. Hopefully his is sooner rather than later with not too much blowback when it happens, but like many people I've underestimated him too many times to think it as simple as he is crap but lucky.
Well yes. My comparison with Thatcher and Blair implied I didn't think he would get 10 years plus before his deficiencies outweighed his skills. Hey ho. I may be wrong.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
Is anyone really suggesting that the rate will stay the same?
I would hope it wouldn't be. But even so mid-February is wildly over-optimistic.
I really hope I am wrong. My daughter's business and her 4 employees depend on it. But at the moment permanent closure looks all but inevitable, especially if there is no support. When the £ runs out, it runs out and the laws on trading while insolvent have not been abolished.
Sorry to rain on everyone's parade but a bit of realism about what is happening to those who are not comfortably off with secure jobs, incomes or pensions would not go amiss on this forum.
Delivering vaccines is a lot easier to manage than testing, we already deliver tens of millions of vaccines every single year. We have become so used to govt failure that we are now starting to expect it, but I am rarely optimistic on the vaccine roll out and therefore when restrictions start to ease.
Clearly businesses and jobs will need further support again, and that will probably happen in a couple of weeks after the inevitable dithering.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
It's going to need a wartime effort to make it happen. I hope the government is up to it.
Ironically, a "Wartime effort" necessitated calling in opposing forces, rather than calling them out for narrow, short term, political advantage. His great hero knew that only too well.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
Is anyone really suggesting that the rate will stay the same?
I would hope it wouldn't be. But even so mid-February is wildly over-optimistic.
I really hope I am wrong. My daughter's business and her 4 employees depend on it. But at the moment permanent closure looks all but inevitable, especially if there is no support. When the £ runs out, it runs out and the laws on trading while insolvent have not been abolished.
Sorry to rain on everyone's parade but a bit of realism about what is happening to those who are not comfortably off with secure jobs, incomes or pensions would not go amiss on this forum.
Delivering vaccines is a lot easier to manage than testing, we already deliver tens of millions of vaccines every single year. We have become so used to govt failure that we are now starting to expect it, but I am rarely optimistic on the vaccine roll out and therefore when restrictions start to ease.
Clearly businesses and jobs will need further support again, and that will probably happen in a couple of weeks after the inevitable dithering.
The government promised some grants last November. They have yet to be paid, 2 months later. Meanwhile the bills and debts mount up.
Not that multi-millionaires like Sunak seem to understand this. And it's odd because last April the delivery of the original grants was very efficiently organised and delivered. So it seems as if this is no longer a priority for the Treasury.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Exactly, Boris is a brilliant public speaker and charismatic campaigner, otherwise his conference speeches would not have been standing room only for the audience even before he was PM (only Heseltine came close to that) and he would not be the only Tory ever to have won the London Mayoralty and he would not have won the largest Tory general election majority since Thatcher
But he is not a "brilliant public speaker". His delivery is punctuated by "ums" and "ers" and his mangled prose and poorly constructed analogies defy his journalistic training and classical education.
That is not to say the punters don't hang on his every garbled sentence, but that does not make him a "brilliant public speaker".
He is the emperor and you are admiring his new clothes.
Hmm, yes and no, I think. As you say much of the time his speech can be pretty garbled and he's definitely not the clearest and most eloquent speaker (though is capable of a degree of eloquence on occasion), but if he gets people to hang on his words, respond to him, engage with him, then it'd doing its job even if a truly great orator would sniff at his efforts. It feels like the difference between an oscar winning movie and a standard marvel movie - you can tell everyone one is a better film, and its probably true, but the latter will still make all the money.
Trump is even more stark in example, far less eloquent than Boris is and vastly more incoherent in his stream of consciousness style musings, but again, it does the job he wants it to.
I was not suggesting Johnson is not the consumate politician for a dystopian world, I was merely correcting HYUFD who stated Johnson is "a brilliant public speaker". He is not.
Yes, but I think it depends what you mean by 'brilliant public speaker'. It's not merely about his political skills, if his verbal delivery, chaotic as it is, is effective, is that not being a good public speaker, in one sense at least?
I mean, I haven't studied the great speeches of history. But if there is a speech that is remembered as great despite, say, structural composition issues, some poor jokes, a weak opening, etc, then do its flaws matter? Boris' delivery does not, I think, lend itself to many quotable or memorable speeches, and I personally find his schtick tiresome at this point. But if people like it, can I really say he is a poor speaker, even if on a technical level he is?
We will have to agree to disagree.
Memorable speakers tend to exude gravitas. Impressive UK speakers in my lifetime have been the likes of Churchill (just in my lifetime) Hailsham, Powell, Wilson and Blair. And from the US, I would include JFK (even more 'just' than Churchill) King, Reagan, Clinton, and Obama. If these are Premier League, Johnson is Hackney Marshes, pub side 3rd team quality.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
Less than a quarter of the population but all of the most at-risk groups plus all health and care workers.
Looking at a percentage of total population is distorting given the age-factors involved in this; one fortunate aspect of this whole pandemic is that children are not really at risk and the vaccine hasn't even been trialled on children, so looking at total population is misleading.
14 million is all of the most at-risk and half of the total at-risk.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
90% of deaths are in the 65+ age group, and there are about 12 million people in that category.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
It's going to need a wartime effort to make it happen. I hope the government is up to it.
Ironically, a "Wartime effort" necessitated calling in opposing forces, rather than calling them out for narrow, short term, political advantage. His great hero knew that only too well.
Boris Johnson DOES resemble a 20th-century wartime British prime minister.
Unfortunately, it's Neville Chamberlain, not Winston Churchill.
NC was famously called "a good lord mayor of Birmingham in a lean year".
BJ it seems was a so-so mayor of Greater London in a ho-hum period (or visa versa).
In both cases, yet more proof of the Peter Principle.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Exactly, Boris is a brilliant public speaker and charismatic campaigner, otherwise his conference speeches would not have been standing room only for the audience even before he was PM (only Heseltine came close to that) and he would not be the only Tory ever to have won the London Mayoralty and he would not have won the largest Tory general election majority since Thatcher
But he is not a "brilliant public speaker". His delivery is punctuated by "ums" and "ers" and his mangled prose and poorly constructed analogies defy his journalistic training and classical education.
That is not to say the punters don't hang on his every garbled sentence, but that does not make him a "brilliant public speaker".
He is the emperor and you are admiring his new clothes.
Hmm, yes and no, I think. As you say much of the time his speech can be pretty garbled and he's definitely not the clearest and most eloquent speaker (though is capable of a degree of eloquence on occasion), but if he gets people to hang on his words, respond to him, engage with him, then it'd doing its job even if a truly great orator would sniff at his efforts. It feels like the difference between an oscar winning movie and a standard marvel movie - you can tell everyone one is a better film, and its probably true, but the latter will still make all the money.
Trump is even more stark in example, far less eloquent than Boris is and vastly more incoherent in his stream of consciousness style musings, but again, it does the job he wants it to.
I was not suggesting Johnson is not the consumate politician for a dystopian world, I was merely correcting HYUFD who stated Johnson is "a brilliant public speaker". He is not.
Yes, but I think it depends what you mean by 'brilliant public speaker'. It's not merely about his political skills, if his verbal delivery, chaotic as it is, is effective, is that not being a good public speaker, in one sense at least?
I mean, I haven't studied the great speeches of history. But if there is a speech that is remembered as great despite, say, structural composition issues, some poor jokes, a weak opening, etc, then do its flaws matter? Boris' delivery does not, I think, lend itself to many quotable or memorable speeches, and I personally find his schtick tiresome at this point. But if people like it, can I really say he is a poor speaker, even if on a technical level he is?
We will have to agree to disagree.
Memorable speakers tend to exude gravitas. Impressive UK speakers in my lifetime have been the likes of Churchill (just in my lifetime) Hailsham, Powell, Wilson and Blair. And from the US, I would include JFK (even more 'just' than Churchill) King, Reagan, Clinton, and Obama. If these are Premier League, Johnson is Hackney Marshes, pub side 3rd team quality.
I'm not sure we can agree to disagree, because I'm not not sure we are even in disagreement. Of those you list I have seen speeches of, Boris's style does not compare favourably. I don't say he is a good speaker on those terms, I just think it is a bit restrictive to act as though that style is the only way to measure a good speaker, when there is plenty to suggest people respond to his words despite them not being as good.
To extend your analogy, it'd be like his a pub side 3rd team, which somehow still won the FA Cup. Yeah, very lucky, but what does that matter when they won the competition? Clearly there was something more to them that people thought.
Pfizer vaccine: effective, protective and safe Moderna vaccine: effective, protective and safe Oxford vaccine: effective, protective, and safe
It's really quite something that we have three different vaccines using two different vectors for a disease we didn't really know anything about this time last year and there's one more almost finished testing in the very near future (J&J).
Also, in some kind of about turn The Times suggest that a negative test within the last 72h will be required to enter the UK. As a minimum that's what we need, but also we need a 5 day monitoring period on this side with a test at the end of it and 72h is far too long, it should be 24 or 48h.
7 weeks won't be enough. Even if we were doing 2 million vaccinations a week starting tomorrow, that would be only 15 million people vaccinated out of 60 million plus.
So it will be for longer.
FPT (in response to @Nigelb) on the issue of government support for business.
"It's not just hospitality but retail and every other business closed and unable to trade.
When restrictions are lifted and people rush to the shops and cafes and pubs and restaurants to do all the things they've been unable to do, they're going to find many of them gone for good. This economic bounce back that people / the government are expecting: how's it going to happen with a collapse in tax revenues and increased welfare spending?."
With all due respect @Cyclefree, while your daughter may have been completely stuffed, that is not the same as the economy's means of production having been destroyed.
Your daughter may lose all her savings - and that's utterly heartbreaking after all the work she's put in - but the building, the plates, the tables, the chairs, the oven, the kitchen equipment, etc., they all still exist. Likewise, the chef and the waiting staff, they still exist.
Someone else, someone who hasn't put the backbreaking work in, may be the person who benefits. But the pub will in all likelihood recover when restrictions are lifted. If there is demand for food and drink, and it is possible to satisfy that demand profitably, then someone will be there.
With respect you are missing the point. This is a profitable business. Closed businesses don't pay tax. Landlords without income don't pay tax. Unemployed individuals don't pay tax. They claim benefits instead.
The indirect effects in the Lake District of the hospitality sector being severely damaged in this way are much more serious than you seem to understand.
The value in a pub and restaurant is not the tables and chairs and kitchen equipment - it is the goodwill, the atmosphere, the hospitality, the care and attention and welcome given. That is much much harder than it looks.
If there are viable businesses which need temporary help to survive, businesses which are being asked to make a sacrifice for the greater good, it is both unconscionable and does not make good economic and political sense to abandon them now when the end is in sight, thus wasting all the money already spent.
14m by mid February? Wow. That will be something truly incredible if we managed that. For me that was by far the most important thing in this broadcast. Because nothing is more important than the speed of vaccination.
Less than a quarter of the population and not enough to lift restrictions. But certainly impressive. If we achieve it. We are nowhere near, though, are we? Not at the current rate.
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
I think it will be earlier than that, but I am also worried about what happens to businesses without further support, and am not as insouciant as @rcs1000 about the economic shock. It’s going to be a long hard road to recovery for a lot of people, and that’s going to affect those who have done OK through this too.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Well that’s not me, as I don’t bet and I never doubted he would win any election in 2019.
My spite is simply because he’s a terrible leader. He is not even a good campaigner; he spent most of the 2019 election campaign hiding from the cameras and his most notable outing was astride a bulldozer.
He’s a terrible speaker, proverbially dishonest, and famously lazy. Why anyone of at least average IQ has the slightest time of day for him I cannot fathom.
Because he, uh, keeps winning elections?
Exactly, Boris is a brilliant public speaker and charismatic campaigner, otherwise his conference speeches would not have been standing room only for the audience even before he was PM (only Heseltine came close to that) and he would not be the only Tory ever to have won the London Mayoralty and he would not have won the largest Tory general election majority since Thatcher
But he is not a "brilliant public speaker". His delivery is punctuated by "ums" and "ers" and his mangled prose and poorly constructed analogies defy his journalistic training and classical education.
That is not to say the punters don't hang on his every garbled sentence, but that does not make him a "brilliant public speaker".
He is the emperor and you are admiring his new clothes.
Hmm, yes and no, I think. As you say much of the time his speech can be pretty garbled and he's definitely not the clearest and most eloquent speaker (though is capable of a degree of eloquence on occasion), but if he gets people to hang on his words, respond to him, engage with him, then it'd doing its job even if a truly great orator would sniff at his efforts. It feels like the difference between an oscar winning movie and a standard marvel movie - you can tell everyone one is a better film, and its probably true, but the latter will still make all the money.
Trump is even more stark in example, far less eloquent than Boris is and vastly more incoherent in his stream of consciousness style musings, but again, it does the job he wants it to.
I was not suggesting Johnson is not the consumate politician for a dystopian world, I was merely correcting HYUFD who stated Johnson is "a brilliant public speaker". He is not.
Yes, but I think it depends what you mean by 'brilliant public speaker'. It's not merely about his political skills, if his verbal delivery, chaotic as it is, is effective, is that not being a good public speaker, in one sense at least?
I mean, I haven't studied the great speeches of history. But if there is a speech that is remembered as great despite, say, structural composition issues, some poor jokes, a weak opening, etc, then do its flaws matter? Boris' delivery does not, I think, lend itself to many quotable or memorable speeches, and I personally find his schtick tiresome at this point. But if people like it, can I really say he is a poor speaker, even if on a technical level he is?
We will have to agree to disagree.
Memorable speakers tend to exude gravitas. Impressive UK speakers in my lifetime have been the likes of Churchill (just in my lifetime) Hailsham, Powell, Wilson and Blair. And from the US, I would include JFK (even more 'just' than Churchill) King, Reagan, Clinton, and Obama. If these are Premier League, Johnson is Hackney Marshes, pub side 3rd team quality.
Am NOT a Boris Johnson fan, quite the opposite, HOWEVER, think that he IS (at his best) a powerful, persuasive communicator.
Same is true of Donald Trump, and for similar reason: they are both ANTI-politicians in the political message & persona.
Here are a few examples of American politicos who made an impact by likewise being very different from the dominate political style & culture of their day, and who changed politics (for good and bad) by their very presence on the stage:
> Andrew Jackson > Theodore Roosevelt > Huey Long > Joseph McCarthy > George Wallace > Ross Perot
This thought is NOT fleshed-out, but you can see where I'm going with it.
I'm not sure we can agree to disagree, because I'm not not sure we are even in disagreement. Of those you list I have seen speeches of, Boris's style does not compare favourably. I don't say he is a good speaker on those terms, I just think it is a bit restrictive to act as though that style is the only way to measure a good speaker, when there is plenty to suggest people respond to his words despite them not being as good.
To extend your analogy, it'd be like his a pub side 3rd team, which somehow still won the FA Cup. Yeah, very lucky, but what does that matter when they won the competition? Clearly there was something more to them that people thought.
The ability to give a good speech does not matter any more. Politics is a branch of the entertainment industry. We want to be amused.
Boris' self-clowning appearances in interviews and on chat shows have created his public persona as a harmless, tousle-haired gaffeur, stumbling through political life with a quip and a smirk.
His matey, gently mocking affectation hoodwinked Peter the Punter and Gardenwalker and many others into voting for him for the Mayoralty twice -- despite Boris achieving very little, and wasting vast sums of money on vanity projects, like water cannons and garden bridges.
Boris has got through sex scandals that would have crushed any other politician. We want to be entertained with stories of pole-dancers and infidelities and jealous mistresses and love-children.
When Boris has all that, why on earth does he need to give a good speech?
Who (apart from HYUFD) would be remotely interested in what he has to say?
I'm not sure we can agree to disagree, because I'm not not sure we are even in disagreement. Of those you list I have seen speeches of, Boris's style does not compare favourably. I don't say he is a good speaker on those terms, I just think it is a bit restrictive to act as though that style is the only way to measure a good speaker, when there is plenty to suggest people respond to his words despite them not being as good.
To extend your analogy, it'd be like his a pub side 3rd team, which somehow still won the FA Cup. Yeah, very lucky, but what does that matter when they won the competition? Clearly there was something more to them that people thought.
The ability to give a good speech does not matter any more. Politics is a branch of the entertainment industry. We want to be amused.
Boris' self-clowning appearances in interviews and on chat shows have created his public persona as a harmless, tousle-haired gaffeur, stumbling through political life with a quip and a smirk.
His matey, gently mocking affectation hoodwinked Peter the Punter and Gardenwalker and many others into voting for him for the Mayoralty twice -- despite Boris achieving very little, and wasting vast sums of money on vanity projects, like water cannons and garden bridges.
Boris has got through sex scandals that would have crushed any other politician. We want to be entertained with stories of pole-dancers and infidelities and jealous mistresses and love-children.
When Boris has all that, why on earth does he need to give a good speech?
Who (apart from HYUFD) would be remotely interested in what he has to say?
I’m utterly immune to his schtick, but I cannot deny his appeal to some. Though anecdotally I have seen it wear off completely and utterly with a few in the last year. Whether that has any greater relevance I have no idea.
One of Loeffler's problems, is ultra-conservatives who did NOT support her in the first round, some of whom think she was beneficiary of voting "fraud" against the TRUE conservative candidate, the Republican who came in 3rd in November.
They will just vote for Purdue then, I also suspect some African Americans will only vote for Warnock not Ossoff eg Ossoff polled 2% below Biden and trailed Purdue while Warnock won the special election 1st round
Warnock got 33% in November, which was good enough for 1st place; while lion's share of Black vote went for him, clearly the two Republicans, Loeffler and Doug Collins, together captured a LOT of votes that went for Biden for President and Ossoff for the other US Senate seat.
Certainly the number of Purdue voters who skip the other race is important, and perhaps determinative. Same is true for number of (mostly Black) Warnock voters who skip the Purdue-Ossoff race.
Loeffler's support of Trumpsky's nutbaggery is aimed at winning over relunctant Trumpskyites.
As for the other side of the coin, note that a few days ago Ossoff went out of his way to criticize Loeffler - who he is NOT running against - for being photographed with a guy who turned out to be KKK.
If the dems get close it will be a surprise. From the runoff offs they needed extra votes from somewhere, in an election season they haven’t done well flipping things.
I also don’t think the presidential election is done yet, interested in how Trumps deals in UFOhs with extra terrestrials is going to play out.
One of Loeffler's problems, is ultra-conservatives who did NOT support her in the first round, some of whom think she was beneficiary of voting "fraud" against the TRUE conservative candidate, the Republican who came in 3rd in November.
They will just vote for Purdue then, I also suspect some African Americans will only vote for Warnock not Ossoff eg Ossoff polled 2% below Biden and trailed Purdue while Warnock won the special election 1st round
Warnock got 33% in November, which was good enough for 1st place; while lion's share of Black vote went for him, clearly the two Republicans, Loeffler and Doug Collins, together captured a LOT of votes that went for Biden for President and Ossoff for the other US Senate seat.
Certainly the number of Purdue voters who skip the other race is important, and perhaps determinative. Same is true for number of (mostly Black) Warnock voters who skip the Purdue-Ossoff race.
Loeffler's support of Trumpsky's nutbaggery is aimed at winning over relunctant Trumpskyites.
As for the other side of the coin, note that a few days ago Ossoff went out of his way to criticize Loeffler - who he is NOT running against - for being photographed with a guy who turned out to be KKK.
If the dems get close it will be a surprise. From the runoff offs they needed extra votes from somewhere, in an election season they haven’t done well flipping things.
I also don’t think the presidential election is done yet, interested in how Trumps deals in UFOhs with extra terrestrials is going to play out.
Scenario for Democratic pickup(s) in GA runoff goes like this:
1. turnout by Blacks (urban, suburban & rural) equals or exceeds (as in GE20) White turnout; historically Black turnout has slumped in runoffs BUT this time we have Stacey Abrams on our side AND Black voters know they've got leverage.
2. turnout by rural Whites slumps, at least somewhat, especially among, younger, less educated Trump supporter who are less-than-frequent voters in non-presidential elections, esp. in January.
3. turnout stays above average by urban and especially suburban Whites (and also Asians) in metro Alanta, Athens (U of GA), Savannah and a few other concentrations around the Peach State; this is the true key to Democratic runoff victory. In the not-so-distant past, runoff vote in these parts was skewed to frequent voters who tilted (often strongly) Republican. Well, these votes still vote, but in 2020 the swung to the Democrats, and that looks to be continuing at least through the first week or so of 2021; leastways it is absolutely critical to the prospects of both Ossoff and Warnock.
So the "extra votes" for the Dems, are really FEWER votes for the Reps, thanks to Trumpsky's suppression of his own vote AND his continuing alienation of swing voters, particularly in the suburbs BUT also in small towns and rural areas from Rabun Gap to the Chattahoochee River.
"Boris has got through sex scandals that would have crushed any other politician. We want to be entertained with stories of pole-dancers and infidelities and jealous mistresses and love-children."
Like Lord Palmerston, but without the gunboats, fortunately. Or the brains, unfortunately.
One of Loeffler's problems, is ultra-conservatives who did NOT support her in the first round, some of whom think she was beneficiary of voting "fraud" against the TRUE conservative candidate, the Republican who came in 3rd in November.
They will just vote for Purdue then, I also suspect some African Americans will only vote for Warnock not Ossoff eg Ossoff polled 2% below Biden and trailed Purdue while Warnock won the special election 1st round
Warnock got 33% in November, which was good enough for 1st place; while lion's share of Black vote went for him, clearly the two Republicans, Loeffler and Doug Collins, together captured a LOT of votes that went for Biden for President and Ossoff for the other US Senate seat.
Certainly the number of Purdue voters who skip the other race is important, and perhaps determinative. Same is true for number of (mostly Black) Warnock voters who skip the Purdue-Ossoff race.
Loeffler's support of Trumpsky's nutbaggery is aimed at winning over relunctant Trumpskyites.
As for the other side of the coin, note that a few days ago Ossoff went out of his way to criticize Loeffler - who he is NOT running against - for being photographed with a guy who turned out to be KKK.
If the dems get close it will be a surprise. From the runoff offs they needed extra votes from somewhere, in an election season they haven’t done well flipping things.
I also don’t think the presidential election is done yet, interested in how Trumps deals in UFOhs with extra terrestrials is going to play out.
In normal circumstances, I would agree.
However, I think there are a couple of wildcards in this:
(2) Trump's voters are not traditional Republican voters. Typically, turnout varies according to how well off you are (particularly for down ticket), this has led to Republicans outperforming in midterms, and underperforming in Generals. *However*, Trump's voters are not like that.
(3) The shenanigans in Georgia - with the Republican SoS and Governor facing off against the President - don't seem likely to boost Republican turnout.
One of Loeffler's problems, is ultra-conservatives who did NOT support her in the first round, some of whom think she was beneficiary of voting "fraud" against the TRUE conservative candidate, the Republican who came in 3rd in November.
They will just vote for Purdue then, I also suspect some African Americans will only vote for Warnock not Ossoff eg Ossoff polled 2% below Biden and trailed Purdue while Warnock won the special election 1st round
Warnock got 33% in November, which was good enough for 1st place; while lion's share of Black vote went for him, clearly the two Republicans, Loeffler and Doug Collins, together captured a LOT of votes that went for Biden for President and Ossoff for the other US Senate seat.
Certainly the number of Purdue voters who skip the other race is important, and perhaps determinative. Same is true for number of (mostly Black) Warnock voters who skip the Purdue-Ossoff race.
Loeffler's support of Trumpsky's nutbaggery is aimed at winning over relunctant Trumpskyites.
As for the other side of the coin, note that a few days ago Ossoff went out of his way to criticize Loeffler - who he is NOT running against - for being photographed with a guy who turned out to be KKK.
If the dems get close it will be a surprise. From the runoff offs they needed extra votes from somewhere, in an election season they haven’t done well flipping things.
Ordinarily you might be right but I don't think you are studying the ground game with this comment.
"Boris has got through sex scandals that would have crushed any other politician. We want to be entertained with stories of pole-dancers and infidelities and jealous mistresses and love-children."
Like Lord Palmerston, but without the gunboats, fortunately. Or the brains, unfortunately.
Even Big G and Carlotta make the occasional criticism.
I have said loudly that Boris is a complete twat for the way he has been taken in on his energy policy.
But on Covid, he is no worse than many other world leaders - and may yet prove to be well ahead of most. Today should give huge hope for that.
Surely, you want him to be ahead of most world leaders in defeating Covid?
And once more, with conviction.
If we can deliver the plan he outlined this evening (his best performance to date), I will of course be delighted.
It just surprises me how much Boris cock-smoking there is on this forum in opposition to all evidence (save his continued relative buoyancy in the polls).
It never surprises me how much spite there is on here towards a PM who made fools of most of the bettors on this site - and who lost money because they could never seen him as a winner.
Mwhahahahahaha!
Is that right? I made money on Con Maj (on the advice of rcs1000). One of the seanTs had a meltdown in the 48 hours before the vote, but that aside I thought the result was as expected by the majority of punters here.
It's a PB Boris fan boy meme that PB lost scads of cash betting against Boris.
I hate the wanker but I profited on both his leadership election (I back and laid two obvious dips in his price) and Con majority (which was absurdly long).
I think the answer to your question whether a 7-week lockdown for England will contain the virus is NO. I do however think that a 7-week lockdown for England would, if imposed on 11th Dec, have contained the virus is YES. [Before 11th Dec the Opposition had been urging the govt to act in response to rising infection numbers, and on 11th Dec the existence of new variant was announced by the Health Secretary in the Commons.]
Comments
I thought that plenty of people thought that Boris would win, and pretty easily at that.
The question was always whether he should win; whether he would be any good at being PM once he had the job. The record is, at best, mixed, isn't it?
(Good news: the UK has lots of vaccines. Genuinely good news.
Bad news: the NHS is officially on the verge of collapse because of multiple bad decisions taken throughout December.)
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1346221668688125952
Don't tell me - Trump made him do it, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Kcae-5pPQ
I must say, the flag talk this evening has been hilarious, as there's the people just having fun about it, and the people taking it really seriously. Politicians stand in front of flags sometimes, the good ones and the bad ones, everyone just relax, you cannot decide some who do it are ok and others are not.
The difficult part is getting Labour to make their peace with Blair.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/18/opinion/coronavirus-vaccine-doses.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
I think you may want to re-read posts by @Roger and others.
And the strategy has been used before in other pandemics.
Still, if people want to believe a lawyer with no epidemiological training came up with the idea ...
It is back to the time when Tony walked on water, a simpler, sweeter age.
I have to admit I voted for him in the two London mayoralties, but he was up against Ken “Adolf” Livingstone.
As a breed, I have little time for the political classes from the left or the right, however I for one, do not recall ever calling for the assassination of any politician, least of all Johnson. I would much prefer Johnson to resign and allow a grown-up like Hunt to take the wheel.
One of Loeffler's problems, is ultra-conservatives who did NOT support her in the first round, some of whom think she was beneficiary of voting "fraud" against the TRUE conservative candidate, the Republican who came in 3rd in November.
And, reluctant though many of us are to say it, there are also people he was able to reach who others might not have, due to Brexit or just his own bumptiously optimistic way that has a certain appeal.
He attracted a certain number of people, and he put off fewer than that.
So it will be for longer.
FPT (in response to @Nigelb) on the issue of government support for business.
"It's not just hospitality but retail and every other business closed and unable to trade.
When restrictions are lifted and people rush to the shops and cafes and pubs and restaurants to do all the things they've been unable to do, they're going to find many of them gone for good. This economic bounce back that people / the government are expecting: how's it going to happen with a collapse in tax revenues and increased welfare spending?."
He’s a mildly amusing comedy turn.
Amusing until you realise he’s got his hand on your wife’s thigh.
I literally would not trust him to look after my children if I had to pop to the cornershop for some milk.
The union flag occupies that uncomfortable hinterland between BMW marketing device and symbol of genocide.
That is not to say the punters don't hang on his every garbled sentence, but that does not make him a "brilliant public speaker".
He is the emperor and you are admiring his new clothes.
He's been lucky in his choice of opponents so far...
So it's more likely to be summer, possibly, late summer, by which time much of the economy will be in ruins. There will be very many sectors and freelance workers who will have had little or no income for the best part of 18 months. I think far too many people are a tad complacent about what this means for our economy and our society.
Trump is even more stark in example, far less eloquent than Boris is and vastly more incoherent in his stream of consciousness style musings, but again, it does the job he wants it to.
So somewhere between what he has said and late summer seems more likely, and given late Summer is August, probably quite a bit more toward the former than the latter.
If we relax too soon we will be repeating - again - the same mistakes as before. With likely the same consequences.
Lockdown and vaccination need to continue until this virus is properly suppressed and the majority have been vaccinated. And there needs to be a proper business support package for the same period of time.
Until it didn't.
Plus ca change.
Same will befall Boris. As it did for Thatcher. And Blair.
He isn't in the same league as either.
But hey - glorious slaughter, eh?
His victory over Corbyn owed a great deal to the dysfunctional state of the Labour Party, so yes he has been fortunate in his opponents.
Has he washed his hands of the economy?
Has he been sidelined?
Has he had a falling out?
Or has he gone off in a sulk?
So, even if they meet their target, and improve the rate of injection from there, with enough supply of vaccine, the number of new people injected will decline temporarily.
But if they manage to inject an average of 2.1 million a week between now and mid-February that will be a good problem to have.
If they really do get to 14m by mid-Feb then they will be going at quite a clip, so 25m by mid-Mar is feasible. Add two weeks for immunity to build. So, *if* they meet their targets then it's not as bad as waiting for summer.
I've been thinking about this because the new restrictions (I intend to follow the law) have the practical implication of entirely confining me to home, except for one or two pharmacy visits. It's making me feel a bit claustrophobic, so I'm hoping that they do indeed keep to the target timetable.
--AS
Moderna vaccine: effective, protective and safe
Oxford vaccine: effective, protective, and safe
I mean, I haven't studied the great speeches of history. But if there is a speech that is remembered as great despite, say, structural composition issues, some poor jokes, a weak opening, etc, then do its flaws matter? Boris' delivery does not, I think, lend itself to many quotable or memorable speeches, and I personally find his schtick tiresome at this point. But if people like it, can I really say he is a poor speaker, even if on a technical level he is?
If we had everyone over 70 vaccinated, then the hospital admissions would be down by 1500 - more than half.
Deaths would be massively down - something like 80%+ I think.
The current rate of vaccination, to date, making no allowance for limited supplies of the vaccine, the steady build out of the delivery supply line etc is 50K per day.
Which is resulting in slack in the delivery system. As in running out of vaccine, not time to jab people.
I really hope I am wrong. My daughter's business and her 4 employees depend on it. But at the moment permanent closure looks all but inevitable, especially if there is no support. When the £ runs out, it runs out and the laws on trading while insolvent have not been abolished.
Sorry to rain on everyone's parade but a bit of realism about what is happening to those who are not comfortably off with secure jobs, incomes or pensions would not go amiss on this forum.
Your daughter may lose all her savings - and that's utterly heartbreaking after all the work she's put in - but the building, the plates, the tables, the chairs, the oven, the kitchen equipment, etc., they all still exist. Likewise, the chef and the waiting staff, they still exist.
Someone else, someone who hasn't put the backbreaking work in, may be the person who benefits. But the pub will in all likelihood recover when restrictions are lifted. If there is demand for food and drink, and it is possible to satisfy that demand profitably, then someone will be there.
Sputnik vaccine, effective, protective, safe
I have a very high opinion of Russian science.
Certainly the number of Purdue voters who skip the other race is important, and perhaps determinative. Same is true for number of (mostly Black) Warnock voters who skip the Purdue-Ossoff race.
Loeffler's support of Trumpsky's nutbaggery is aimed at winning over relunctant Trumpskyites.
As for the other side of the coin, note that a few days ago Ossoff went out of his way to criticize Loeffler - who he is NOT running against - for being photographed with a guy who turned out to be KKK.
Hey ho. I may be wrong.
Clearly businesses and jobs will need further support again, and that will probably happen in a couple of weeks after the inevitable dithering.
His great hero knew that only too well.
Not that multi-millionaires like Sunak seem to understand this. And it's odd because last April the delivery of the original grants was very efficiently organised and delivered. So it seems as if this is no longer a priority for the Treasury.
Memorable speakers tend to exude gravitas. Impressive UK speakers in my lifetime have been the likes of Churchill (just in my lifetime) Hailsham, Powell, Wilson and Blair. And from the US, I would include JFK (even more 'just' than Churchill) King, Reagan, Clinton, and Obama. If these are Premier League, Johnson is Hackney Marshes, pub side 3rd team quality.
Looking at a percentage of total population is distorting given the age-factors involved in this; one fortunate aspect of this whole pandemic is that children are not really at risk and the vaccine hasn't even been trialled on children, so looking at total population is misleading.
14 million is all of the most at-risk and half of the total at-risk.
Unfortunately, it's Neville Chamberlain, not Winston Churchill.
NC was famously called "a good lord mayor of Birmingham in a lean year".
BJ it seems was a so-so mayor of Greater London in a ho-hum period (or visa versa).
In both cases, yet more proof of the Peter Principle.
To extend your analogy, it'd be like his a pub side 3rd team, which somehow still won the FA Cup. Yeah, very lucky, but what does that matter when they won the competition? Clearly there was something more to them that people thought.
Also, in some kind of about turn The Times suggest that a negative test within the last 72h will be required to enter the UK. As a minimum that's what we need, but also we need a 5 day monitoring period on this side with a test at the end of it and 72h is far too long, it should be 24 or 48h.
With respect you are missing the point. This is a profitable business. Closed businesses don't pay tax. Landlords without income don't pay tax. Unemployed individuals don't pay tax. They claim benefits instead.
The indirect effects in the Lake District of the hospitality sector being severely damaged in this way are much more serious than you seem to understand.
The value in a pub and restaurant is not the tables and chairs and kitchen equipment - it is the goodwill, the atmosphere, the hospitality, the care and attention and welcome given. That is much much harder than it looks.
If there are viable businesses which need temporary help to survive, businesses which are being asked to make a sacrifice for the greater good, it is both unconscionable and does not make good economic and political sense to abandon them now when the end is in sight, thus wasting all the money already spent.
It’s going to be a long hard road to recovery for a lot of people, and that’s going to affect those who have done OK through this too.
Same is true of Donald Trump, and for similar reason: they are both ANTI-politicians in the political message & persona.
Here are a few examples of American politicos who made an impact by likewise being very different from the dominate political style & culture of their day, and who changed politics (for good and bad) by their very presence on the stage:
> Andrew Jackson
> Theodore Roosevelt
> Huey Long
> Joseph McCarthy
> George Wallace
> Ross Perot
This thought is NOT fleshed-out, but you can see where I'm going with it.
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-the-south-african-variant/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En7ak4Nit0U
Boris' self-clowning appearances in interviews and on chat shows have created his public persona as a harmless, tousle-haired gaffeur, stumbling through political life with a quip and a smirk.
His matey, gently mocking affectation hoodwinked Peter the Punter and Gardenwalker and many others into voting for him for the Mayoralty twice -- despite Boris achieving very little, and wasting vast sums of money on vanity projects, like water cannons and garden bridges.
Boris has got through sex scandals that would have crushed any other politician. We want to be entertained with stories of pole-dancers and infidelities and jealous mistresses and love-children.
When Boris has all that, why on earth does he need to give a good speech?
Who (apart from HYUFD) would be remotely interested in what he has to say?
Though anecdotally I have seen it wear off completely and utterly with a few in the last year. Whether that has any greater relevance I have no idea.
https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/indonesia-charts-innovative-path-covid-19-vaccination
I also don’t think the presidential election is done yet, interested in how Trumps deals in UFOhs with extra terrestrials is going to play out.
1. turnout by Blacks (urban, suburban & rural) equals or exceeds (as in GE20) White turnout; historically Black turnout has slumped in runoffs BUT this time we have Stacey Abrams on our side AND Black voters know they've got leverage.
2. turnout by rural Whites slumps, at least somewhat, especially among, younger, less educated Trump supporter who are less-than-frequent voters in non-presidential elections, esp. in January.
3. turnout stays above average by urban and especially suburban Whites (and also Asians) in metro Alanta, Athens (U of GA), Savannah and a few other concentrations around the Peach State; this is the true key to Democratic runoff victory. In the not-so-distant past, runoff vote in these parts was skewed to frequent voters who tilted (often strongly) Republican. Well, these votes still vote, but in 2020 the swung to the Democrats, and that looks to be continuing at least through the first week or so of 2021; leastways it is absolutely critical to the prospects of both Ossoff and Warnock.
So the "extra votes" for the Dems, are really FEWER votes for the Reps, thanks to Trumpsky's suppression of his own vote AND his continuing alienation of swing voters, particularly in the suburbs BUT also in small towns and rural areas from Rabun Gap to the Chattahoochee River.
Like Lord Palmerston, but without the gunboats, fortunately. Or the brains, unfortunately.
However, I think there are a couple of wildcards in this:
(1) The early voting numbers - after a slow start - are looking very encouraging for the Dems, with a greater differential in their favour than in November (see: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/04/us/politics/georgia-voting.html)
(2) Trump's voters are not traditional Republican voters. Typically, turnout varies according to how well off you are (particularly for down ticket), this has led to Republicans outperforming in midterms, and underperforming in Generals. *However*, Trump's voters are not like that.
(3) The shenanigans in Georgia - with the Republican SoS and Governor facing off against the President - don't seem likely to boost Republican turnout.
There are lots of reasons why the Dems are looking good and my confidence has risen sharply this past week. The latest opinion polls just out look good for both seats: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/georgia-senate-polls/
As many of you know, I'm on Ossoff at 3/1 - a bet I tipped widely (and stridently) on here back in October. I'm starting to feel it may be a winner.
I hate the wanker but I profited on both his leadership election (I back and laid two obvious dips in his price) and Con majority (which was absurdly long).
[Before 11th Dec the Opposition had been urging the govt to act in response to rising infection numbers, and on 11th Dec the existence of new variant was announced by the Health Secretary in the Commons.]