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Trump preparing for GOP losses in the Georgia runoffs? He Tweets that the races are “illegal and inv

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  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    IanB2 said:

    CNN: 2021 could see Britain ripped to pieces

    It's not hard to see why the SNP's platform - leaving the UK and re-joining the EU under the leadership of Sturgeon - is so appealing to many north of the border. Conservatives in England are seriously worried that Johnson doesn't have either the energy or passion needed to combat it.

    "There is genuine fear that Scotland could go under this government and that there is no energy going into addressing that," says one MP on the government's payroll. "We've struggled to make an emotional case for the Union. Partly that's because our focus is on our heartlands in England, but we are going to need to make a positive case beyond the economic benefits to Scotland."

    Also, the more now Britain shifts from the EU, the more in common Northern Ireland has with the EU, and thus the Republic of Ireland," says Katy Hayward, professor of political sociology at Queen's University Belfast. The issue of the north becoming closer to the Republic has put a spring in the step of those who dream of reunification.

    "Soft-nationalists who were pro-European -- and even some soft-Unionists -- have been forced to seriously rethink what Northern Ireland is and should be," says Matthew O'Toole, a Northern Irish lawmaker for the pro-reunification Social Democratic and Labour Party.

    Since Johnson faces the prospect of fighting in Scotland and Northern Ireland, he risks overlooking Wales. "Covid has highlighted what devolution actually means, in terms of Welsh politicians being able to make independent policy that directly affects Welsh people," says Roger Awan-Scully, professor of politics at Cardiff University. “If Conservatives take a more aggressive line against devolution and pro-centralised control from London, it risks emboldening the anti-Westminster movement in Wales”.

    If Johnson is unable to make leaving the EU look like a success and he alienates the public in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, it's inevitable that more and more voters will wonder if the grass is greener outside of the United Kingdom.

    There's no chance of a breakup. For a start we'd have to rejig the jokes about an Englishman, a Scotsman, and a quarter of an Irishman.
  • kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Wait, I thought it was congestion that was going to cripple trade?
    Call absolute bullshit on a Romanian lorry driver actually staying in Romania to work...the money differential is enormous, that's why they spend months every year on the road away from home in the first place.
    It is karma for all the bullshit bendy banana stories that Brexiters managed to get into the press for so long.
    It is quite sweet to see Brexiteers expecting our relationship with the EU to be reported accurately and neutrally rather than sensationalised and exaggerated.
    That's quite true, but people also need to be content to lose any moral high ground if they are to so happy about that.
    Its not a question of high ground, its accepting reality. The press misreported on the EU because it sells and makes journalists careers (see the PM for one). It is hugely naive not to expect the same to happen with Brexit.

    It is good that those who have benefited from fake news are now going to have to put up with it, not because its fair or moral that they should, but because it increases the chance that we might eventually agree to tackle it.
    We've been putting up with it since the referendum.

    With all the lies about imminent job losses and 'the crops are rotting in the fields'.

    Actually those lies started before the referendum.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,272
    edited January 2021
    IanB2 said:

    CNN: 2021 could see Britain ripped to pieces

    It's not hard to see why the SNP's platform - leaving the UK and re-joining the EU under the leadership of Sturgeon - is so appealing to many north of the border. Conservatives in England are seriously worried that Johnson doesn't have either the energy or passion needed to combat it.

    "There is genuine fear that Scotland could go under this government and that there is no energy going into addressing that," says one MP on the government's payroll. "We've struggled to make an emotional case for the Union. Partly that's because our focus is on our heartlands in England, but we are going to need to make a positive case beyond the economic benefits to Scotland."

    Also, the more now Britain shifts from the EU, the more in common Northern Ireland has with the EU, and thus the Republic of Ireland," says Katy Hayward, professor of political sociology at Queen's University Belfast. The issue of the north becoming closer to the Republic has put a spring in the step of those who dream of reunification.

    "Soft-nationalists who were pro-European -- and even some soft-Unionists -- have been forced to seriously rethink what Northern Ireland is and should be," says Matthew O'Toole, a Northern Irish lawmaker for the pro-reunification Social Democratic and Labour Party.

    Since Johnson faces the prospect of fighting in Scotland and Northern Ireland, he risks overlooking Wales. "Covid has highlighted what devolution actually means, in terms of Welsh politicians being able to make independent policy that directly affects Welsh people," says Roger Awan-Scully, professor of politics at Cardiff University. “If Conservatives take a more aggressive line against devolution and pro-centralised control from London, it risks emboldening the anti-Westminster movement in Wales”.

    If Johnson is unable to make leaving the EU look like a success and he alienates the public in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, it's inevitable that more and more voters will wonder if the grass is greener outside of the United Kingdom.

    Yet another anti UK piece from CNN or the NYT.

    Now we have a Deal the chances of an SNP majority are significantly reduced, there will be no hard border with Ireland and no tariffs on GB and NI trade and Wales voted Leave anyway so can have no complaints about Brexit whatsoever.

    In fact on the latest Senedd 2021 polls the main swing from 2016 will be from Labour to the Tories and Plaid to Abolish the Assembly
  • Is there any up to date data on vaccinations by country ?
  • The poll also reveals that the prime minister is on course to lose his own seat of Uxbridge and Ruislip South. Johnson won there last year defending a majority of 5,034 votes, the smallest of any sitting prime minister since 1924.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Scott_xP said:
    Isn't the point of Brexit to push out foreign migrant workers, particularly from Eastern Europe?

    So surely this is a feature not a bug?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited January 2021
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NHS requiring your inside leg measurement and wang length before being allowed to be consideered for.volunteering to help with vaccination drive has finally been picked up by BBC..

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

    'Some medics have been asked for proof they are trained in areas such as preventing radicalisation.'
    Insane. They are going to see each person for what, five minutes?
    Can't be too.careful....ISIS recruiters might use the queues as an opportunity to get some.new recruits...especially among all those OAPs currently getting vaccinated.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    The poll also reveals that the prime minister is on course to lose his own seat of Uxbridge and Ruislip South. Johnson won there last year defending a majority of 5,034 votes, the smallest of any sitting prime minister since 1924.

    Don't worry. If he wins the next election but loses his seat he can always be PM from the Lords. :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,272
    TimT said:

    On topic, this from the NY Post:

    "As President Trump continued to condemn the US Senate elections in Georgia as corrupt, Democrats took an early lead in the two runoffs as early voting ended on Jan. 1, according to an analysis of returns from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

    "While state law mandates that no ballots be opened before election night on Tuesday, Georgia’s largest paper said its review showed more ballots were cast by Democrat-leaning demographics and came from left-leaning parts of the state.

    "A record total of 3,002,100 early votes have been cast. Black voters — who generally support Democrats in the state by overwhelming numbers — are voting in higher numbers than they did in the presidential election, the paper reported.

    "Turnout in rural and more conservative-leaning portions of the state have lagged. President Trump is planning a last-minute rally Monday in Dalton in a last-ditch effort to rally the faithful to the polls."

    Democrats won early voting in November too, Republicans however came out on the day
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    The poll also reveals that the prime minister is on course to lose his own seat of Uxbridge and Ruislip South. Johnson won there last year defending a majority of 5,034 votes, the smallest of any sitting prime minister since 1924.

    Get BF to list that.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Isn't the point of Brexit to push out foreign migrant workers, particularly from Eastern Europe?

    So surely this is a feature not a bug?
    I don't think lorry drivers are migrants.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    IanB2 said:

    CNN: 2021 could see Britain ripped to pieces

    It's not hard to see why the SNP's platform - leaving the UK and re-joining the EU under the leadership of Sturgeon - is so appealing to many north of the border. Conservatives in England are seriously worried that Johnson doesn't have either the energy or passion needed to combat it.

    "There is genuine fear that Scotland could go under this government and that there is no energy going into addressing that," says one MP on the government's payroll. "We've struggled to make an emotional case for the Union. Partly that's because our focus is on our heartlands in England, but we are going to need to make a positive case beyond the economic benefits to Scotland."

    Also, the more now Britain shifts from the EU, the more in common Northern Ireland has with the EU, and thus the Republic of Ireland," says Katy Hayward, professor of political sociology at Queen's University Belfast. The issue of the north becoming closer to the Republic has put a spring in the step of those who dream of reunification.

    "Soft-nationalists who were pro-European -- and even some soft-Unionists -- have been forced to seriously rethink what Northern Ireland is and should be," says Matthew O'Toole, a Northern Irish lawmaker for the pro-reunification Social Democratic and Labour Party.

    Since Johnson faces the prospect of fighting in Scotland and Northern Ireland, he risks overlooking Wales. "Covid has highlighted what devolution actually means, in terms of Welsh politicians being able to make independent policy that directly affects Welsh people," says Roger Awan-Scully, professor of politics at Cardiff University. “If Conservatives take a more aggressive line against devolution and pro-centralised control from London, it risks emboldening the anti-Westminster movement in Wales”.

    If Johnson is unable to make leaving the EU look like a success and he alienates the public in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, it's inevitable that more and more voters will wonder if the grass is greener outside of the United Kingdom.

    Only if America promises to go first...
  • Focaldata carried out an MRP poll for the Conservatives during the 2019 general election.

    So they are pretty good and reputable.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Wait, I thought it was congestion that was going to cripple trade?
    Call absolute bullshit on a Romanian lorry driver actually staying in Romania to work...the money differential is enormous, that's why they spend months every year on the road away from home in the first place.
    It is karma for all the bullshit bendy banana stories that Brexiters managed to get into the press for so long.
    It is quite sweet to see Brexiteers expecting our relationship with the EU to be reported accurately and neutrally rather than sensationalised and exaggerated.
    Brexiters don’t seem to have realised that the terms of engagement have now changed.

    No longer can they sit on the corner stool in the saloon bar, doing sod all while nursing their pint and railing against the status quo.

    Their job now is to defend the messy, real world compromise that we are destined to suffer.

    Meanwhile those of us who never signed into their misguided adventure can enjoy our time in the bar taking the piss out of it all.
    What's to stop them from still blaming the EU for imposing rules on Britain via the trade agreement? If anything, it should be even easier without UK representatives in the rooms where the decisions are made.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357
    IanB2 said:

    CNN: 2021 could see Britain ripped to pieces

    It's not hard to see why the SNP's platform - leaving the UK and re-joining the EU under the leadership of Sturgeon - is so appealing to many north of the border. Conservatives in England are seriously worried that Johnson doesn't have either the energy or passion needed to combat it.

    "There is genuine fear that Scotland could go under this government and that there is no energy going into addressing that," says one MP on the government's payroll. "We've struggled to make an emotional case for the Union. Partly that's because our focus is on our heartlands in England, but we are going to need to make a positive case beyond the economic benefits to Scotland."

    Also, the more now Britain shifts from the EU, the more in common Northern Ireland has with the EU, and thus the Republic of Ireland," says Katy Hayward, professor of political sociology at Queen's University Belfast. The issue of the north becoming closer to the Republic has put a spring in the step of those who dream of reunification.

    "Soft-nationalists who were pro-European -- and even some soft-Unionists -- have been forced to seriously rethink what Northern Ireland is and should be," says Matthew O'Toole, a Northern Irish lawmaker for the pro-reunification Social Democratic and Labour Party.

    Since Johnson faces the prospect of fighting in Scotland and Northern Ireland, he risks overlooking Wales. "Covid has highlighted what devolution actually means, in terms of Welsh politicians being able to make independent policy that directly affects Welsh people," says Roger Awan-Scully, professor of politics at Cardiff University. “If Conservatives take a more aggressive line against devolution and pro-centralised control from London, it risks emboldening the anti-Westminster movement in Wales”.

    If Johnson is unable to make leaving the EU look like a success and he alienates the public in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, it's inevitable that more and more voters will wonder if the grass is greener outside of the United Kingdom.

    Another piece of journalism from the US where the wish is father to the thought......
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895

    The poll also reveals that the prime minister is on course to lose his own seat of Uxbridge and Ruislip South. Johnson won there last year defending a majority of 5,034 votes, the smallest of any sitting prime minister since 1924.

    He won't be standing next time
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,272
    edited January 2021

    Boris Johnson is losing his grip on the “red wall” seats that propelled him to power at the 2019 general election, according to a new poll conducted during the turbulent festive period.

    More than 22,000 people were surveyed in a constituency-by-constituency poll, which predicts that neither the Conservatives nor Labour would win an outright majority if an election were held tomorrow.

    The MRP poll was carried out over a four-week period in December, when Christmas was cancelled for millions of families as a super-strain of the coronavirus ripped through the country and as the country teetered on the brink of leaving the EU without a deal.

    The MRP (multilevel regression and post-stratification) process is a statistical method that produces predictions based on small geographic areas, analysing elements of a person’s lifestyle and background to generate probabilities about their voting habits. It is believed to be more accurate than a more conventional poll.

    The survey gives the first detailed insight into the public’s perception of Johnson’s handling of the Brexit talks and the pandemic, amid fears that Britain is heading into a third national lockdown.

    According to the survey, conducted by the research data company Focaldata, the Conservatives would lose 81 seats, wiping out the 80-seat majority they won in December 2019.

    This would leave the Conservatives with 284 seats, while Labour would win 282 seats, an overall increase of 82.

    The Scottish National Party is predicted to win 57 of the 59 seats in Scotland, paving the way for a Labour-SNP coalition government.

    The findings will be interpreted as a vote of confidence in Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, who is a vehement opponent of Brexit and has won plaudits for her response to the coronavirus pandemic.

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    Of the constituencies that Labour would gain, half (41) are seats in the north of England, Midlands and Wales that voted Labour in 2017 before switching to the Tories in 2019, suggesting that the Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, is on course to rebuild his party’s red wall.

    Labour is also predicted to win five London seats from the Conservatives, taking Chingford and Wood Green, Chipping Barnet, Finchley and Golders Green, Hendon, and Kensington.

    The Conservatives cling on to just eight of the 43 red wall seats that they won at last year’s general election — Bassetlaw, Bishop Auckland, Colne Valley, Dudley North, Great Grimsby, Penistone and Stocksbridge, Scunthorpe, and Sedgefield.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/detailed-poll-shows-boris-johnson-risks-losing-his-majority-and-his-seat-7tm9p3dp7

    A poll taken almost entirely before the Brexit Deal when No Deal looked likely so rather out of date, however even this poll still has the Tories ahead of Labour, even by 2 seats and with the LDs down to 2 the SNP would have the balance of power
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    Scott_xP said:

    The poll also reveals that the prime minister is on course to lose his own seat of Uxbridge and Ruislip South. Johnson won there last year defending a majority of 5,034 votes, the smallest of any sitting prime minister since 1924.

    He won't be standing next time
    I think he will. A tenner?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,272
    eek said:

    The worse the Republicans do in these races the easier it is for Trump to keep control of part of the Republican party.

    Losing both senate seats probably doesn't do Trump's future prospects any harm.

    Trump needs both seats staying GOP to boost the chances of the Senate objecting to Biden's win even if the Democrat controlled House approves it.

    As both chambers need to object Biden would still be confirmed as President elect but Trump wants to sow as much uncertainty as possible
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited January 2021
    35% was what I was expecting for Tories for later in January, and this has them already there. Maybe a couple of per cent rebound after the quieter opening day of Brexit, as this was taken up to the 29th.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Isn't the point of Brexit to push out foreign migrant workers, particularly from Eastern Europe?

    So surely this is a feature not a bug?
    I don't think lorry drivers are migrants.
    British jobs for British workers? A gap in the market has opened up for a British driver, and with reduced competition he can push his charges up.

    Seriously, isn't this what Brexit was for?
  • MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:



    Was that this article ? (Paywalled - though from the bit I saw, someone used ‘disinterested’ where they meant ‘uninterested’.)
    https://twitter.com/thelonevirologi/status/1345386225356697602

    I don't think any country saw the need to keep vaccine capacity high on the off chance that there was going to be a new epidemic. Indian only has capacity as it has a population 20x the UKs.
    We have an outsize pharma and biotech industry - but we offshored a lot of the manufacturing, for no massively compelling reason.
    A very small amount of government intervention might have prevented that; it’s not like trying to keep steel mills or shipyards open.
    Yup. We're great at the creative IP side of the process but completely crap at actually making anything physical. Companies aren't properly incentivised for big capital investment in the UK and it shows.
    It's also due to a near-religious belief that all manufacturing should be off shored. Managing physical production is hard and takes work. Running an investment vehicle that owns IP, less so.
    This is connected to the religious belief that foreign ownership of even core strategic industries and infrastructure was irrelevant. Not even Reagan thought this, and he prevented its loss far more than Britain, but "the invisible hand" was taken more literally and religiously in Britain than almost anywhere else for a long period.

    This might be because of the over-literal reclamation of figures like Adam Smith as part of national heritage, but dependent on a completely skewed and ahistorical account of their thinking.
    At some point a foreign purchase of a UK business began to be regarded as 'foreign investment' and to be encouraged.

    It seemed to be a misunderstanding of what 'foreign investment' should be.
  • As far as I know we have not seen a poll since the brexit deal and the vaccination role out and it will be interesting to compare when such a poll or polls is published now we are in the new year
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    So either the Lib Dem’s are done - I actually think it’s possible they get wiped out next time - or perhaps mid-term polling is a waste of time.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NHS requiring your inside leg measurement and wang length before being allowed to be consideered for.volunteering to help with vaccination drive has finally been picked up by BBC..

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

    'Some medics have been asked for proof they are trained in areas such as preventing radicalisation.'
    Insane. They are going to see each person for what, five minutes?
    Can't be too.careful....ISIS recruiters might use the queues as an opportunity to get some.new recruits...especially among all those OAPs currently getting vaccinated.
    As I pointed out at Breakfast: it is this government that made Prevent Training compulsory, and withdrew prescribing rights for retired doctors, by establishing the rules for Revalidation and License to practice in 2012.

    Its almost as if they are a bunch of turnip heads...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    HYUFD said:

    Boris Johnson is losing his grip on the “red wall” seats that propelled him to power at the 2019 general election, according to a new poll conducted during the turbulent festive period.

    More than 22,000 people were surveyed in a constituency-by-constituency poll, which predicts that neither the Conservatives nor Labour would win an outright majority if an election were held tomorrow.

    The MRP poll was carried out over a four-week period in December, when Christmas was cancelled for millions of families as a super-strain of the coronavirus ripped through the country and as the country teetered on the brink of leaving the EU without a deal.

    The MRP (multilevel regression and post-stratification) process is a statistical method that produces predictions based on small geographic areas, analysing elements of a person’s lifestyle and background to generate probabilities about their voting habits. It is believed to be more accurate than a more conventional poll.

    The survey gives the first detailed insight into the public’s perception of Johnson’s handling of the Brexit talks and the pandemic, amid fears that Britain is heading into a third national lockdown.

    According to the survey, conducted by the research data company Focaldata, the Conservatives would lose 81 seats, wiping out the 80-seat majority they won in December 2019.

    This would leave the Conservatives with 284 seats, while Labour would win 282 seats, an overall increase of 82.

    The Scottish National Party is predicted to win 57 of the 59 seats in Scotland, paving the way for a Labour-SNP coalition government.

    The findings will be interpreted as a vote of confidence in Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, who is a vehement opponent of Brexit and has won plaudits for her response to the coronavirus pandemic.

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    Of the constituencies that Labour would gain, half (41) are seats in the north of England, Midlands and Wales that voted Labour in 2017 before switching to the Tories in 2019, suggesting that the Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, is on course to rebuild his party’s red wall.

    Labour is also predicted to win five London seats from the Conservatives, taking Chingford and Wood Green, Chipping Barnet, Finchley and Golders Green, Hendon, and Kensington.

    The Conservatives cling on to just eight of the 43 red wall seats that they won at last year’s general election — Bassetlaw, Bishop Auckland, Colne Valley, Dudley North, Great Grimsby, Penistone and Stocksbridge, Scunthorpe, and Sedgefield.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/detailed-poll-shows-boris-johnson-risks-losing-his-majority-and-his-seat-7tm9p3dp7

    A poll taken almost entirely before the Brexit Deal when No Deal looked likely so rather out of date, however even this poll still has the Tories ahead of Labour, even by 2 seats and with the LDs down to 2 the SNP would have the balance of power
    :)
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    edited January 2021
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NHS requiring your inside leg measurement and wang length before being allowed to be consideered for.volunteering to help with vaccination drive has finally been picked up by BBC..

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

    'Some medics have been asked for proof they are trained in areas such as preventing radicalisation.'
    Insane. They are going to see each person for what, five minutes?
    Can't be too.careful....ISIS recruiters might use the queues as an opportunity to get some.new recruits...especially among all those OAPs currently getting vaccinated.
    As I pointed out at Breakfast: it is this government that made Prevent Training compulsory, and withdrew prescribing rights for retired doctors, by establishing the rules for Revalidation and License to practice in 2012.

    Its almost as if they are a bunch of turnip heads...
    So Random capitilisation is the source of iSIs radicalism?

    Edit: Sorry I was being mean here. It was unfair.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687

    IanB2 said:

    CNN: 2021 could see Britain ripped to pieces

    It's not hard to see why the SNP's platform - leaving the UK and re-joining the EU under the leadership of Sturgeon - is so appealing to many north of the border. Conservatives in England are seriously worried that Johnson doesn't have either the energy or passion needed to combat it.

    "There is genuine fear that Scotland could go under this government and that there is no energy going into addressing that," says one MP on the government's payroll. "We've struggled to make an emotional case for the Union. Partly that's because our focus is on our heartlands in England, but we are going to need to make a positive case beyond the economic benefits to Scotland."

    Also, the more now Britain shifts from the EU, the more in common Northern Ireland has with the EU, and thus the Republic of Ireland," says Katy Hayward, professor of political sociology at Queen's University Belfast. The issue of the north becoming closer to the Republic has put a spring in the step of those who dream of reunification.

    "Soft-nationalists who were pro-European -- and even some soft-Unionists -- have been forced to seriously rethink what Northern Ireland is and should be," says Matthew O'Toole, a Northern Irish lawmaker for the pro-reunification Social Democratic and Labour Party.

    Since Johnson faces the prospect of fighting in Scotland and Northern Ireland, he risks overlooking Wales. "Covid has highlighted what devolution actually means, in terms of Welsh politicians being able to make independent policy that directly affects Welsh people," says Roger Awan-Scully, professor of politics at Cardiff University. “If Conservatives take a more aggressive line against devolution and pro-centralised control from London, it risks emboldening the anti-Westminster movement in Wales”.

    If Johnson is unable to make leaving the EU look like a success and he alienates the public in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, it's inevitable that more and more voters will wonder if the grass is greener outside of the United Kingdom.

    Another piece of journalism from the US where the wish is father to the thought......
    Or maybe with the benefit of distance they can see things more clearly than our blinkered English nationalists.
  • Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NHS requiring your inside leg measurement and wang length before being allowed to be consideered for.volunteering to help with vaccination drive has finally been picked up by BBC..

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

    'Some medics have been asked for proof they are trained in areas such as preventing radicalisation.'
    Insane. They are going to see each person for what, five minutes?
    Can't be too.careful....ISIS recruiters might use the queues as an opportunity to get some.new recruits...especially among all those OAPs currently getting vaccinated.
    As I pointed out at Breakfast: it is this government that made Prevent Training compulsory, and withdrew prescribing rights for retired doctors, by establishing the rules for Revalidation and License to practice in 2012.

    Its almost as if they are a bunch of turnip heads...
    And has anyone in the NHS suggested doing away with such bureaucracy at present ?

    Or are Boris and Hancock required to do all the thinking ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
  • alednamalednam Posts: 186
    One might think Trump finds it a good idea to say that elections are rigged: he's all set to lay the blame when he loses. But if he's keeping Republicans from voting in the 2 Georgia Senate elections, then by now he really has only himself to blame.
    I sometimes think he's only ever really cared about being taken to have won (as opposed to having won). .
  • tlg86 said:

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    So either the Lib Dem’s are done - I actually think it’s possible they get wiped out next time - or perhaps mid-term polling is a waste of time.
    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    The poll also reveals that the prime minister is on course to lose his own seat of Uxbridge and Ruislip South. Johnson won there last year defending a majority of 5,034 votes, the smallest of any sitting prime minister since 1924.

    The majority is 7210 & he has over 50 per cent of the vote.

    Very comparable to Thatcher's majority in Finchley (which was 7878 in 1979 and again with over 50 per cent of the vote)

    It is not a safe seat, but unless Boris bigly screws up, he will hold it.

    And if Boris bigly screws up, he will not stand.
  • Gaussian said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    Maybe Trump degrading civilian GPS in preparation for invading somewhere?
    America.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    edited January 2021
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/spain-gibraltar-border-preliminary-post-brexit-deal

    So Gibraltar joins Schengen, Northern Ireland gets its special "best of both worlds" deal, and Scotland gets what, exactly?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,272

    tlg86 said:

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    So either the Lib Dem’s are done - I actually think it’s possible they get wiped out next time - or perhaps mid-term polling is a waste of time.
    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.
    The poll was taken before the LDs voted against the Brexit Deal and Starmer Labour voted for it, I expect some diehard Remainers to have switched from Labour to the LDs in the next poll.

    Any poll taken before the Brexit Deal vote as this poll was is already completely out of date
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Boris Johnson is losing his grip on the “red wall” seats that propelled him to power at the 2019 general election, according to a new poll conducted during the turbulent festive period.

    More than 22,000 people were surveyed in a constituency-by-constituency poll, which predicts that neither the Conservatives nor Labour would win an outright majority if an election were held tomorrow.

    The MRP poll was carried out over a four-week period in December, when Christmas was cancelled for millions of families as a super-strain of the coronavirus ripped through the country and as the country teetered on the brink of leaving the EU without a deal.

    The MRP (multilevel regression and post-stratification) process is a statistical method that produces predictions based on small geographic areas, analysing elements of a person’s lifestyle and background to generate probabilities about their voting habits. It is believed to be more accurate than a more conventional poll.

    The survey gives the first detailed insight into the public’s perception of Johnson’s handling of the Brexit talks and the pandemic, amid fears that Britain is heading into a third national lockdown.

    According to the survey, conducted by the research data company Focaldata, the Conservatives would lose 81 seats, wiping out the 80-seat majority they won in December 2019.

    This would leave the Conservatives with 284 seats, while Labour would win 282 seats, an overall increase of 82.

    The Scottish National Party is predicted to win 57 of the 59 seats in Scotland, paving the way for a Labour-SNP coalition government.

    The findings will be interpreted as a vote of confidence in Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, who is a vehement opponent of Brexit and has won plaudits for her response to the coronavirus pandemic.

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    Of the constituencies that Labour would gain, half (41) are seats in the north of England, Midlands and Wales that voted Labour in 2017 before switching to the Tories in 2019, suggesting that the Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, is on course to rebuild his party’s red wall.

    Labour is also predicted to win five London seats from the Conservatives, taking Chingford and Wood Green, Chipping Barnet, Finchley and Golders Green, Hendon, and Kensington.

    The Conservatives cling on to just eight of the 43 red wall seats that they won at last year’s general election — Bassetlaw, Bishop Auckland, Colne Valley, Dudley North, Great Grimsby, Penistone and Stocksbridge, Scunthorpe, and Sedgefield.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/detailed-poll-shows-boris-johnson-risks-losing-his-majority-and-his-seat-7tm9p3dp7

    Boris Johnson is losing his grip on the “red wall” seats that propelled him to power at the 2019 general election, according to a new poll conducted during the turbulent festive period.

    More than 22,000 people were surveyed in a constituency-by-constituency poll, which predicts that neither the Conservatives nor Labour would win an outright majority if an election were held tomorrow.

    The MRP poll was carried out over a four-week period in December, when Christmas was cancelled for millions of families as a super-strain of the coronavirus ripped through the country and as the country teetered on the brink of leaving the EU without a deal.

    The MRP (multilevel regression and post-stratification) process is a statistical method that produces predictions based on small geographic areas, analysing elements of a person’s lifestyle and background to generate probabilities about their voting habits. It is believed to be more accurate than a more conventional poll.

    The survey gives the first detailed insight into the public’s perception of Johnson’s handling of the Brexit talks and the pandemic, amid fears that Britain is heading into a third national lockdown.

    According to the survey, conducted by the research data company Focaldata, the Conservatives would lose 81 seats, wiping out the 80-seat majority they won in December 2019.

    This would leave the Conservatives with 284 seats, while Labour would win 282 seats, an overall increase of 82.

    The Scottish National Party is predicted to win 57 of the 59 seats in Scotland, paving the way for a Labour-SNP coalition government.

    The findings will be interpreted as a vote of confidence in Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, who is a vehement opponent of Brexit and has won plaudits for her response to the coronavirus pandemic.

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    Of the constituencies that Labour would gain, half (41) are seats in the north of England, Midlands and Wales that voted Labour in 2017 before switching to the Tories in 2019, suggesting that the Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, is on course to rebuild his party’s red wall.

    Labour is also predicted to win five London seats from the Conservatives, taking Chingford and Wood Green, Chipping Barnet, Finchley and Golders Green, Hendon, and Kensington.

    The Conservatives cling on to just eight of the 43 red wall seats that they won at last year’s general election — Bassetlaw, Bishop Auckland, Colne Valley, Dudley North, Great Grimsby, Penistone and Stocksbridge, Scunthorpe, and Sedgefield.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/detailed-poll-shows-boris-johnson-risks-losing-his-majority-and-his-seat-7tm9p3dp7

    I don't believe the LD figure - unlikely to drop much below 10. SNP seems a fair bit too high.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NHS requiring your inside leg measurement and wang length before being allowed to be consideered for.volunteering to help with vaccination drive has finally been picked up by BBC..

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

    'Some medics have been asked for proof they are trained in areas such as preventing radicalisation.'
    Insane. They are going to see each person for what, five minutes?
    Can't be too.careful....ISIS recruiters might use the queues as an opportunity to get some.new recruits...especially among all those OAPs currently getting vaccinated.
    As I pointed out at Breakfast: it is this government that made Prevent Training compulsory, and withdrew prescribing rights for retired doctors, by establishing the rules for Revalidation and License to practice in 2012.

    Its almost as if they are a bunch of turnip heads...
    And has anyone in the NHS suggested doing away with such bureaucracy at present ?

    Or are Boris and Hancock required to do all the thinking ?
    It is not in the power of the NHS to do so. The GMC has responsibility for medical licence to practice, and runs under government statute.

    Doctors have been moaning about it for a decade, and Nurses about their equivalent from the NMC.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,598
    edited January 2021
    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
    Yes, GPS devices have gone slightly wrong all over the planet because of Brexit. That seems likely.

    Or perhaps Garmin just need to make sure that their published satellite almanac is up to date.


    You see this in IT a lot. You make one small change and then get lots of complaints that your change caused problems, whereas in fact 99% of the complaints are user error or completely unrelated.
  • SONGS OF THE SPECIAL JANUARY RUNOFF ELECTION STATES

    RAMBLIN' MAN
    by Dickie Betts

    Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
    Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
    And when it's time for leavin'
    I hope you'll understand
    That I was born a ramblin' man

    Well my father was a gambler down in Georgia
    He wound up on the wrong end of a gun
    And I was born in the back seat of a Greyhound bus
    Rollin' down highway 41

    Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
    Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
    And when it's time for leavin'
    I hope you'll understand
    That I was born a ramblin' man

    I'm on my way to New Orleans this mornin'
    Leaving out of Nashville, Tennessee
    They're always having a good time down on the bayou
    Lord, them Delta women think the world of me

    Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
    Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
    And when it's time for leavin'
    I hope you'll understand
    That I was born a ramblin' man
    Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Pulpstar said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    Working fine for me
    But for how long? Let's see how it looks in a few days. If it's still ok then maybe we can say it hasn't been impacted.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    So either the Lib Dem’s are done - I actually think it’s possible they get wiped out next time - or perhaps mid-term polling is a waste of time.
    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.
    The poll was taken before the LDs voted against the Brexit Deal and Starmer Labour voted for it, I expect some diehard Remainers to have switched from Labour to the LDs in the next poll.

    Any poll taken before the Brexit Deal vote as this poll was is already completely out of date
    Brexit happened over a year ago mate.
  • kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
    Given GPS is American what will Brexit have changed?

    I find it incredibly hard to believe.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited January 2021

    tlg86 said:

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    So either the Lib Dem’s are done - I actually think it’s possible they get wiped out next time - or perhaps mid-term polling is a waste of time.
    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.
    I did mention when Davey came in that he would struggle to get attention compared to Layla Moran ; but wasn't there a slightly better poll for them the other week ? If Starmer pushes to a very Red Wall position, I wouldn't give up hope, if I were them. Starmer might even have problems with the Europe issue this year among liberals, having backed the deal.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800


    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.

    The obituary of the LDs has been written on many occasions not least at the time of the Party's creation in 1989.

    It's still here and even with 7.5% won 6 seats in 1970 and 8 seats on 7.9% in 2015. This poll claims with a higher vote share they'd fall to just 2 seats.

    I think a Meldrew-esque response in order.
  • https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/spain-gibraltar-border-preliminary-post-brexit-deal

    So Gibraltar joins Schengen, Northern Ireland gets its special "best of both worlds" deal, and Scotland gets what, exactly?

    A grudge.

    Exactly what the SNP wanted.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    tlg86 said:

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    So either the Lib Dem’s are done - I actually think it’s possible they get wiped out next time - or perhaps mid-term polling is a waste of time.
    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.
    As a LD party member, I agree that at national level things look very bleak. In England the anti-Tory vote is consolidating with Labour. Bad for LDs, but probably worse for the Tories, as in target seats both LD and Green will vote tactically, in a way they would not for Corbyn.

  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Focaldata carried out an MRP poll for the Conservatives during the 2019 general election.

    So they are pretty good and reputable.

    Their 2019 prediction on eve of poll seems to have been a 24 seat Tory majority.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360

    35% was what I was expecting for Tories for later in January, and this has them already there. Maybe a couple of per cent rebound after the quieter opening day of Brexit, as this was taken up to the 29th.
    This way off from an election there are two takes from this, plus one fact: The government is still in the ring, fighting, and actually standing up occasionally after 10 years of government and several years of fire fighting, and that is with a tenth rate bunch of ministers - the Tories are running the country and stand a perfectly respectable chance of doing so still in April 2029, which is over 8 years away.

    Secondly Labour are not 25 points ahead.

    Fact: Boris has yet to bat as PM on anything like a decent batting wicket.

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited January 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Boris Johnson is losing his grip on the “red wall” seats that propelled him to power at the 2019 general election, according to a new poll conducted during the turbulent festive period.

    More than 22,000 people were surveyed in a constituency-by-constituency poll, which predicts that neither the Conservatives nor Labour would win an outright majority if an election were held tomorrow.

    The MRP poll was carried out over a four-week period in December, when Christmas was cancelled for millions of families as a super-strain of the coronavirus ripped through the country and as the country teetered on the brink of leaving the EU without a deal.

    The MRP (multilevel regression and post-stratification) process is a statistical method that produces predictions based on small geographic areas, analysing elements of a person’s lifestyle and background to generate probabilities about their voting habits. It is believed to be more accurate than a more conventional poll.

    The survey gives the first detailed insight into the public’s perception of Johnson’s handling of the Brexit talks and the pandemic, amid fears that Britain is heading into a third national lockdown.

    According to the survey, conducted by the research data company Focaldata, the Conservatives would lose 81 seats, wiping out the 80-seat majority they won in December 2019.

    This would leave the Conservatives with 284 seats, while Labour would win 282 seats, an overall increase of 82.

    The Scottish National Party is predicted to win 57 of the 59 seats in Scotland, paving the way for a Labour-SNP coalition government.

    The findings will be interpreted as a vote of confidence in Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, who is a vehement opponent of Brexit and has won plaudits for her response to the coronavirus pandemic.

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    Of the constituencies that Labour would gain, half (41) are seats in the north of England, Midlands and Wales that voted Labour in 2017 before switching to the Tories in 2019, suggesting that the Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, is on course to rebuild his party’s red wall.

    Labour is also predicted to win five London seats from the Conservatives, taking Chingford and Wood Green, Chipping Barnet, Finchley and Golders Green, Hendon, and Kensington.

    The Conservatives cling on to just eight of the 43 red wall seats that they won at last year’s general election — Bassetlaw, Bishop Auckland, Colne Valley, Dudley North, Great Grimsby, Penistone and Stocksbridge, Scunthorpe, and Sedgefield.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/detailed-poll-shows-boris-johnson-risks-losing-his-majority-and-his-seat-7tm9p3dp7

    A poll taken almost entirely before the Brexit Deal when No Deal looked likely so rather out of date, however even this poll still has the Tories ahead of Labour, even by 2 seats and with the LDs down to 2 the SNP would have the balance of power
    HYUFD said:

    Boris Johnson is losing his grip on the “red wall” seats that propelled him to power at the 2019 general election, according to a new poll conducted during the turbulent festive period.

    More than 22,000 people were surveyed in a constituency-by-constituency poll, which predicts that neither the Conservatives nor Labour would win an outright majority if an election were held tomorrow.

    The MRP poll was carried out over a four-week period in December, when Christmas was cancelled for millions of families as a super-strain of the coronavirus ripped through the country and as the country teetered on the brink of leaving the EU without a deal.

    The MRP (multilevel regression and post-stratification) process is a statistical method that produces predictions based on small geographic areas, analysing elements of a person’s lifestyle and background to generate probabilities about their voting habits. It is believed to be more accurate than a more conventional poll.

    The survey gives the first detailed insight into the public’s perception of Johnson’s handling of the Brexit talks and the pandemic, amid fears that Britain is heading into a third national lockdown.

    According to the survey, conducted by the research data company Focaldata, the Conservatives would lose 81 seats, wiping out the 80-seat majority they won in December 2019.

    This would leave the Conservatives with 284 seats, while Labour would win 282 seats, an overall increase of 82.

    The Scottish National Party is predicted to win 57 of the 59 seats in Scotland, paving the way for a Labour-SNP coalition government.

    The findings will be interpreted as a vote of confidence in Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, who is a vehement opponent of Brexit and has won plaudits for her response to the coronavirus pandemic.

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    Of the constituencies that Labour would gain, half (41) are seats in the north of England, Midlands and Wales that voted Labour in 2017 before switching to the Tories in 2019, suggesting that the Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, is on course to rebuild his party’s red wall.

    Labour is also predicted to win five London seats from the Conservatives, taking Chingford and Wood Green, Chipping Barnet, Finchley and Golders Green, Hendon, and Kensington.

    The Conservatives cling on to just eight of the 43 red wall seats that they won at last year’s general election — Bassetlaw, Bishop Auckland, Colne Valley, Dudley North, Great Grimsby, Penistone and Stocksbridge, Scunthorpe, and Sedgefield.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/detailed-poll-shows-boris-johnson-risks-losing-his-majority-and-his-seat-7tm9p3dp7

    A poll taken almost entirely before the Brexit Deal when No Deal looked likely so rather out of date, however even this poll still has the Tories ahead of Labour, even by 2 seats and with the LDs down to 2 the SNP would have the balance of power
    The poll also implies a 2.5% swing from Con to LD. That should produce gains rather than losses for them. Nor are they likely to lose Orkney & Shetland to the SNP.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:



    Was that this article ? (Paywalled - though from the bit I saw, someone used ‘disinterested’ where they meant ‘uninterested’.)
    https://twitter.com/thelonevirologi/status/1345386225356697602

    I don't think any country saw the need to keep vaccine capacity high on the off chance that there was going to be a new epidemic. Indian only has capacity as it has a population 20x the UKs.
    We have an outsize pharma and biotech industry - but we offshored a lot of the manufacturing, for no massively compelling reason.
    A very small amount of government intervention might have prevented that; it’s not like trying to keep steel mills or shipyards open.
    Yup. We're great at the creative IP side of the process but completely crap at actually making anything physical. Companies aren't properly incentivised for big capital investment in the UK and it shows.
    It's also due to a near-religious belief that all manufacturing should be off shored. Managing physical production is hard and takes work. Running an investment vehicle that owns IP, less so.
    Great point.

    I recall from City days how the back office "grunt work" could be done anywhere but trading & sales required one to be within spitting distance of Covent Garden and Chelsea.

    Most odd.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    So either the Lib Dem’s are done - I actually think it’s possible they get wiped out next time - or perhaps mid-term polling is a waste of time.
    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.
    The poll was taken before the LDs voted against the Brexit Deal and Starmer Labour voted for it, I expect some diehard Remainers to have switched from Labour to the LDs in the next poll.

    Any poll taken before the Brexit Deal vote as this poll was is already completely out of date
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    So either the Lib Dem’s are done - I actually think it’s possible they get wiped out next time - or perhaps mid-term polling is a waste of time.
    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.
    The poll was taken before the LDs voted against the Brexit Deal and Starmer Labour voted for it, I expect some diehard Remainers to have switched from Labour to the LDs in the next poll.

    Any poll taken before the Brexit Deal vote as this poll was is already completely out of date
    I doubt it makes much difference . For most people it has long ceased to be a salient issue.
  • kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
    So is it not working on your phone?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NHS requiring your inside leg measurement and wang length before being allowed to be consideered for.volunteering to help with vaccination drive has finally been picked up by BBC..

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

    'Some medics have been asked for proof they are trained in areas such as preventing radicalisation.'
    Insane. They are going to see each person for what, five minutes?
    Can't be too.careful....ISIS recruiters might use the queues as an opportunity to get some.new recruits...especially among all those OAPs currently getting vaccinated.
    As I pointed out at Breakfast: it is this government that made Prevent Training compulsory, and withdrew prescribing rights for retired doctors, by establishing the rules for Revalidation and License to practice in 2012.

    Its almost as if they are a bunch of turnip heads...
    So Random capitilisation is the source of iSIs radicalism?

    Edit: Sorry I was being mean here. It was unfair.
    Prevent Training is correctly capitalised, as it is a Proper Noun, as are Revalidation and Licence. I will concede on Breakfast 🙄
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    stodge said:


    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.

    The obituary of the LDs has been written on many occasions not least at the time of the Party's creation in 1989.

    It's still here and even with 7.5% won 6 seats in 1970 and 8 seats on 7.9% in 2015. This poll claims with a higher vote share they'd fall to just 2 seats.

    I think a Meldrew-esque response in order.
    I’d certainly advise taking this with a pinch of salt, but you should be very careful about looking at vote shares and equating it to seats. Many on here expected the 8% in 2015 to give them a lot more than 8 seats.
  • HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    So either the Lib Dem’s are done - I actually think it’s possible they get wiped out next time - or perhaps mid-term polling is a waste of time.
    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.
    The poll was taken before the LDs voted against the Brexit Deal and Starmer Labour voted for it, I expect some diehard Remainers to have switched from Labour to the LDs in the next poll.

    Any poll taken before the Brexit Deal vote as this poll was is already completely out of date
    Brexit happened over a year ago mate.
    Besides, getting Brexit finalised cuts both ways.

    Some Brexit-fearing voters might move into the Conservative column. On the other hand, those who stuck with BoJo because Brexit was in peril might drift off.

    The idea that the government will get votes due to gratitude (for anything really) is for the birds. Voters are ungrateful buggers in the main.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NHS requiring your inside leg measurement and wang length before being allowed to be consideered for.volunteering to help with vaccination drive has finally been picked up by BBC..

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

    'Some medics have been asked for proof they are trained in areas such as preventing radicalisation.'
    Insane. They are going to see each person for what, five minutes?
    Can't be too.careful....ISIS recruiters might use the queues as an opportunity to get some.new recruits...especially among all those OAPs currently getting vaccinated.
    As I pointed out at Breakfast: it is this government that made Prevent Training compulsory, and withdrew prescribing rights for retired doctors, by establishing the rules for Revalidation and License to practice in 2012.

    Its almost as if they are a bunch of turnip heads...
    And has anyone in the NHS suggested doing away with such bureaucracy at present ?

    Or are Boris and Hancock required to do all the thinking ?
    It is not in the power of the NHS to do so. The GMC has responsibility for medical licence to practice, and runs under government statute.

    Doctors have been moaning about it for a decade, and Nurses about their equivalent from the NMC.
    So professional organisations restricting entry of outsiders.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    So either the Lib Dem’s are done - I actually think it’s possible they get wiped out next time - or perhaps mid-term polling is a waste of time.
    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.
    The poll was taken before the LDs voted against the Brexit Deal and Starmer Labour voted for it, I expect some diehard Remainers to have switched from Labour to the LDs in the next poll.

    Any poll taken before the Brexit Deal vote as this poll was is already completely out of date
    Brexit happened over a year ago mate.

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    According to the poll, the Liberal Democrats would crumble to just two seats in parliament, down from 11 won in the last general election.

    A quarter of those who voted Lib Dem in 2019 say they would now vote Labour. The poll says the Lib Dems would cling on only to Bath, and Kingston and Surbiton, both by the tightest of margins. The party won 62 seats in 2005.

    So either the Lib Dem’s are done - I actually think it’s possible they get wiped out next time - or perhaps mid-term polling is a waste of time.
    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.
    The poll was taken before the LDs voted against the Brexit Deal and Starmer Labour voted for it, I expect some diehard Remainers to have switched from Labour to the LDs in the next poll.

    Any poll taken before the Brexit Deal vote as this poll was is already completely out of date
    Brexit happened over a year ago mate.
    11 months to be precise! The UK left on 31st Jan 2020.
  • Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NHS requiring your inside leg measurement and wang length before being allowed to be consideered for.volunteering to help with vaccination drive has finally been picked up by BBC..

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

    'Some medics have been asked for proof they are trained in areas such as preventing radicalisation.'
    Insane. They are going to see each person for what, five minutes?
    Can't be too.careful....ISIS recruiters might use the queues as an opportunity to get some.new recruits...especially among all those OAPs currently getting vaccinated.
    As I pointed out at Breakfast: it is this government that made Prevent Training compulsory, and withdrew prescribing rights for retired doctors, by establishing the rules for Revalidation and License to practice in 2012.

    Its almost as if they are a bunch of turnip heads...
    So Random capitilisation is the source of iSIs radicalism?

    Edit: Sorry I was being mean here. It was unfair.
    Prevent Training is correctly capitalised, as it is a Proper Noun, as are Revalidation and Licence. I will concede on Breakfast 🙄
    Unless you were on the TV this morning in which case it too could have been valid.
  • stodge said:


    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.

    The obituary of the LDs has been written on many occasions not least at the time of the Party's creation in 1989.

    It's still here and even with 7.5% won 6 seats in 1970 and 8 seats on 7.9% in 2015. This poll claims with a higher vote share they'd fall to just 2 seats.

    I think a Meldrew-esque response in order.
    For a party formed in 1989 they did remarkably well in 1970.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    I still don't think the Dems are going to win both races but that might be self-protection.

    I do however think it suits Trump if the GOP lose both. If the Dems control everything he can point to his Republican era as the pure form and that the party must endorse him for 2024. I also think, which isn't the same argument, he is so self-centred, deluded and furious with some Republicans that he is pressing the nuclear button.

    I do hope that was only metaphor.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947


    Yokes said:

    Yokes said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Wait, I thought it was congestion that was going to cripple trade?
    Call absolute bullshit on a Romanian lorry driver staying in Romania to work...the money differential is enormous, that's why they spend months every year on the road away from home in the first place.
    Not sure why the times is publishing a story based on one anecdote, but there we are.
    Because Brexit stories sell papers, whether true or false, important or not, just as they have done for many years.
    Anything that sounds bad is where its at. Terror, confusion, negativity. Thats the media and enough of the public keen enough to read/watch/listen themselves into a funk.

    And now twitter is knocking on abour Starmer quitting as Labour leader. Seems rather unlikely unless his personal life gets him into diffs but there you go, storys can not only be made to look to be something of substance but can sometimes be created from apparently nowhere.
    There is only one thing I can think of that would get rid of Starmer as Labour leader.

    And I don't buy into the story - for one thing, no-one writes down the stuff alleged. Except in bad movies. And the for another, the story involves "someone know someone who saw" - which guarantees it is bullshit.

    So I am not going to repeat it.
    I'd agree, not least I havent seen anyone of substance actually say something of note is up.
    It seems mainly interesting to me in showing how much of twitter is willing to turn against Starmer on the back of a hashtag. His support on the left seems very shallow.
    I have noticed this too. There is a "back to life, back to reality" atmosphere with Starmer and this is not welcome to people who have not given up on the dream.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,456

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
    Given GPS is American what will Brexit have changed?

    I find it incredibly hard to believe.
    I suspect final analysis will prove that this is not the Butterfly Effect (properly a property of chaotic systems where tiny changes in inputs below the threshold of measurement may result in massive changes in outputs), but rather the Coincidence Effect, very well understood by those conducting vaccine trials.
  • MetatronMetatron Posts: 193
    There is a space in UK politics for a genuinely Free Speech party which the Lib Dems could in theory.Unfortunatley they are as big a part of Cancel Culture.In 2019 the Lib Dems voted with all the other mainline opposition parties to try to make any criticism of Islam an 'Islamophobic' offence which fortunately failed.The same political forces are now celebrating BLM in a depressing sycophantic manner.The Lib Dems need to find some politicians like the admirable Kemi Badenoch.If they do not they are gifting the next election to either people voting for the Tories on cultural grounds or voting for Labour & SNP on competence grounds
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Wait, I thought it was congestion that was going to cripple trade?
    Call absolute bullshit on a Romanian lorry driver actually staying in Romania to work...the money differential is enormous, that's why they spend months every year on the road away from home in the first place.
    It is karma for all the bullshit bendy banana stories that Brexiters managed to get into the press for so long.
    It is quite sweet to see Brexiteers expecting our relationship with the EU to be reported accurately and neutrally rather than sensationalised and exaggerated.
    That's quite true, but people also need to be content to lose any moral high ground if they are to so happy about that.
    Its not a question of high ground, its accepting reality. The press misreported on the EU because it sells and makes journalists careers (see the PM for one). It is hugely naive not to expect the same to happen with Brexit.

    It is good that those who have benefited from fake news are now going to have to put up with it, not because its fair or moral that they should, but because it increases the chance that we might eventually agree to tackle it.
    We've been putting up with it since the referendum.

    With all the lies about imminent job losses and 'the crops are rotting in the fields'.

    Actually those lies started before the referendum.
    Sigh. These are going to get tedious. I thought we were suppose to be looking ahead.

    If they really like we could have two games of Historical Bullshit Bingo going; one for the Rump Remainers and one for the thicker of the Scottish Nationalists. It will be a tedious exercise.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,891
    The Lib Dems need to work out what they're for. They died with their boots on opposing Brexit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    stodge said:


    I genuinely think they are done.

    At the last election they were the only GB wide party with a polarised electorate, they were pitching for 48% of voters and they ballsed that up.

    Even in my own seat, where Jared O'Mara had done so much to put off people voting Labour the Lib Dems failed, there's something really wrong. It's just not the impact of going into coalition with the Tories.

    The obituary of the LDs has been written on many occasions not least at the time of the Party's creation in 1989.

    It's still here and even with 7.5% won 6 seats in 1970 and 8 seats on 7.9% in 2015. This poll claims with a higher vote share they'd fall to just 2 seats.

    I think a Meldrew-esque response in order.
    For a party formed in 1989 they did remarkably well in 1970.
    Especially since they were actually formed in 1988.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NHS requiring your inside leg measurement and wang length before being allowed to be consideered for.volunteering to help with vaccination drive has finally been picked up by BBC..

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

    'Some medics have been asked for proof they are trained in areas such as preventing radicalisation.'
    Insane. They are going to see each person for what, five minutes?
    Can't be too.careful....ISIS recruiters might use the queues as an opportunity to get some.new recruits...especially among all those OAPs currently getting vaccinated.
    As I pointed out at Breakfast: it is this government that made Prevent Training compulsory, and withdrew prescribing rights for retired doctors, by establishing the rules for Revalidation and License to practice in 2012.

    Its almost as if they are a bunch of turnip heads...
    And has anyone in the NHS suggested doing away with such bureaucracy at present ?

    Or are Boris and Hancock required to do all the thinking ?
    It is not in the power of the NHS to do so. The GMC has responsibility for medical licence to practice, and runs under government statute.

    Doctors have been moaning about it for a decade, and Nurses about their equivalent from the NMC.
    So professional organisations restricting entry of outsiders.
    No, Doctors do not control the GMC, it is a government organ now.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Wait, I thought it was congestion that was going to cripple trade?
    Call absolute bullshit on a Romanian lorry driver staying in Romania to work...the money differential is enormous, that's why they spend months every year on the road away from home in the first place.
    Not sure why the times is publishing a story based on one anecdote, but there we are.
    All outlets routinely do stories that basically amount to 'this was said on twitter', it's the world we live in, so on an anecdote still works.
    The Times has quite the history of COVID shitstirring.

    Remember those stories that were rebutted point by point on the Govt Departmental blog?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to work out what they're for. They died with their boots on opposing Brexit.

    I’m almost certain that they are going to be rejoin party at the next election. They’ve nowhere else to go.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,272
    edited January 2021
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NHS requiring your inside leg measurement and wang length before being allowed to be consideered for.volunteering to help with vaccination drive has finally been picked up by BBC..

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

    'Some medics have been asked for proof they are trained in areas such as preventing radicalisation.'
    Insane. They are going to see each person for what, five minutes?
    Can't be too.careful....ISIS recruiters might use the queues as an opportunity to get some.new recruits...especially among all those OAPs currently getting vaccinated.
    As I pointed out at Breakfast: it is this government that made Prevent Training compulsory, and withdrew prescribing rights for retired doctors, by establishing the rules for Revalidation and License to practice in 2012.

    Its almost as if they are a bunch of turnip heads...
    And has anyone in the NHS suggested doing away with such bureaucracy at present ?

    Or are Boris and Hancock required to do all the thinking ?
    It is not in the power of the NHS to do so. The GMC has responsibility for medical licence to practice, and runs under government statute.

    Doctors have been moaning about it for a decade, and Nurses about their equivalent from the NMC.
    There has been a nursing regulator since the GNC, one of the NMC's predecessor bodies, was founded in the 1920s and the GMC was established in 1858, they have been around even before the NHS was created. I know as I work for one of them
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,456
    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    On topic, this from the NY Post:

    "As President Trump continued to condemn the US Senate elections in Georgia as corrupt, Democrats took an early lead in the two runoffs as early voting ended on Jan. 1, according to an analysis of returns from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

    "While state law mandates that no ballots be opened before election night on Tuesday, Georgia’s largest paper said its review showed more ballots were cast by Democrat-leaning demographics and came from left-leaning parts of the state.

    "A record total of 3,002,100 early votes have been cast. Black voters — who generally support Democrats in the state by overwhelming numbers — are voting in higher numbers than they did in the presidential election, the paper reported.

    "Turnout in rural and more conservative-leaning portions of the state have lagged. President Trump is planning a last-minute rally Monday in Dalton in a last-ditch effort to rally the faithful to the polls."

    Democrats won early voting in November too, Republicans however came out on the day
    And lost the election, unless you are a Trumpist.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Isn't the point of Brexit to push out foreign migrant workers, particularly from Eastern Europe?

    So surely this is a feature not a bug?
    It is pretty much the only reason UKIP got a couple of defectors, 12% at the 2015 GE, scared Cameron into a referendum then won it.
  • SONGS OF THE SPECIAL JANUARY RUNOFF ELECTION STATES

    RAMBLIN' MAN
    by Dickie Betts

    Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
    Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
    And when it's time for leavin'
    I hope you'll understand
    That I was born a ramblin' man

    Well my father was a gambler down in Georgia
    He wound up on the wrong end of a gun
    And I was born in the back seat of a Greyhound bus
    Rollin' down highway 41

    Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
    Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
    And when it's time for leavin'
    I hope you'll understand
    That I was born a ramblin' man

    I'm on my way to New Orleans this mornin'
    Leaving out of Nashville, Tennessee
    They're always having a good time down on the bayou
    Lord, them Delta women think the world of me

    Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
    Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
    And when it's time for leavin'
    I hope you'll understand
    That I was born a ramblin' man
    Lord, I was born a ramblin' man

    Damn it. Now I have the Allman Brothers in my head again. Just have to go and listen to Jessica again.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to work out what they're for. They died with their boots on opposing Brexit.

    I’m almost certain that they are going to be rejoin party at the next election. They’ve nowhere else to go.
    Rejoin the Single Market, yes, but not the EU.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,272
    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to work out what they're for. They died with their boots on opposing Brexit.

    The LDs exist currently as a relatively fiscally conservative, socially liberal party for diehard Remainers or Unionists in Scotland.

    With Labour now the party for social democrats, the Tories the party for Brexiteers and the SNP the party for Scottish nationalists there is not really much room for them to be much else
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637

    As far as I know we have not seen a poll since the brexit deal and the vaccination role out and it will be interesting to compare when such a poll or polls is published now we are in the new year
    I reckon the Tories will be ahead in the first poll with fieldwork exclusively after the EU Brexit deal was passed
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
    Given GPS is American what will Brexit have changed?

    I find it incredibly hard to believe.
    So do I. However Galileo is live and people may be running it without realising they are doing so, and or referring to it generically as GPS.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,598
    edited January 2021
    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
    Given GPS is American what will Brexit have changed?

    I find it incredibly hard to believe.
    I suspect final analysis will prove that this is not the Butterfly Effect (properly a property of chaotic systems where tiny changes in inputs below the threshold of measurement may result in massive changes in outputs), but rather the Coincidence Effect, very well understood by those conducting vaccine trials.
    :)

    As I understand it, it is mostly runners complaining because they all use Garmin watch devices. These all need the satellite almanac updating from time to time because they have no direct data connection. No doubt the last file was valid until 1/1.

    My phone was perfectly fine on a walk today.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:



    Was that this article ? (Paywalled - though from the bit I saw, someone used ‘disinterested’ where they meant ‘uninterested’.)
    https://twitter.com/thelonevirologi/status/1345386225356697602

    I don't think any country saw the need to keep vaccine capacity high on the off chance that there was going to be a new epidemic. Indian only has capacity as it has a population 20x the UKs.
    We have an outsize pharma and biotech industry - but we offshored a lot of the manufacturing, for no massively compelling reason.
    A very small amount of government intervention might have prevented that; it’s not like trying to keep steel mills or shipyards open.
    Yup. We're great at the creative IP side of the process but completely crap at actually making anything physical. Companies aren't properly incentivised for big capital investment in the UK and it shows.
    It's also due to a near-religious belief that all manufacturing should be off shored. Managing physical production is hard and takes work. Running an investment vehicle that owns IP, less so.
    Great point.

    I recall from City days how the back office "grunt work" could be done anywhere but trading & sales required one to be within spitting distance of Covent Garden and Chelsea.

    Most odd.
    Lunching distance of Covent Garden perhaps, but you weren't in the City if you didn't dwell in the George and Vulture, Sweetings, Marmiton and the like.

    A lunch in Chelsea would have been unthinkable. That would have wasted valuable drinking time in an unconscionable way.

    The only real important outlier as to location was Salomon Bros. They moved to Victoria in 1987 - I was with them at the time (in a very junior role), but not afterwards.

    Subsequently they rather lost their way. Before moving our they used to share premises with various others of note.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,272
    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    On topic, this from the NY Post:

    "As President Trump continued to condemn the US Senate elections in Georgia as corrupt, Democrats took an early lead in the two runoffs as early voting ended on Jan. 1, according to an analysis of returns from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

    "While state law mandates that no ballots be opened before election night on Tuesday, Georgia’s largest paper said its review showed more ballots were cast by Democrat-leaning demographics and came from left-leaning parts of the state.

    "A record total of 3,002,100 early votes have been cast. Black voters — who generally support Democrats in the state by overwhelming numbers — are voting in higher numbers than they did in the presidential election, the paper reported.

    "Turnout in rural and more conservative-leaning portions of the state have lagged. President Trump is planning a last-minute rally Monday in Dalton in a last-ditch effort to rally the faithful to the polls."

    Democrats won early voting in November too, Republicans however came out on the day
    And lost the election, unless you are a Trumpist.
    Purdue was in the lead in the first round in the Georgia Senate race, 2% ahead of Ossoff, even if Warnock led in the special election
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NHS requiring your inside leg measurement and wang length before being allowed to be consideered for.volunteering to help with vaccination drive has finally been picked up by BBC..

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

    'Some medics have been asked for proof they are trained in areas such as preventing radicalisation.'
    Insane. They are going to see each person for what, five minutes?
    Can't be too.careful....ISIS recruiters might use the queues as an opportunity to get some.new recruits...especially among all those OAPs currently getting vaccinated.
    As I pointed out at Breakfast: it is this government that made Prevent Training compulsory, and withdrew prescribing rights for retired doctors, by establishing the rules for Revalidation and License to practice in 2012.

    Its almost as if they are a bunch of turnip heads...
    So Random capitilisation is the source of iSIs radicalism?

    Edit: Sorry I was being mean here. It was unfair.
    Prevent Training is correctly capitalised, as it is a Proper Noun, as are Revalidation and Licence. I will concede on Breakfast 🙄
    The staff canteen at my local District Hospital is the only one in the place that serves traditional Full English breakfasts :smile:
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,456
    edited January 2021
    Yep, Born on the Bayou and Bad Moon Rising mixing together in my head now, with Jessica. All that Southern Rock sounds the same. Strangely, it is not a cacophony

    SONGS OF THE SPECIAL JANUARY RUNOFF ELECTION STATES

    RAMBLIN' MAN
    by Dickie Betts

    Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
    Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
    And when it's time for leavin'
    I hope you'll understand
    That I was born a ramblin' man

    Well my father was a gambler down in Georgia
    He wound up on the wrong end of a gun
    And I was born in the back seat of a Greyhound bus
    Rollin' down highway 41

    Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
    Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
    And when it's time for leavin'
    I hope you'll understand
    That I was born a ramblin' man

    I'm on my way to New Orleans this mornin'
    Leaving out of Nashville, Tennessee
    They're always having a good time down on the bayou
    Lord, them Delta women think the world of me

    Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
    Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
    And when it's time for leavin'
    I hope you'll understand
    That I was born a ramblin' man
    Lord, I was born a ramblin' man

    Damn it. Now I have the Allman Brothers in my head again. Just have to go and listen to Jessica again.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NHS requiring your inside leg measurement and wang length before being allowed to be consideered for.volunteering to help with vaccination drive has finally been picked up by BBC..

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

    'Some medics have been asked for proof they are trained in areas such as preventing radicalisation.'
    Insane. They are going to see each person for what, five minutes?
    Can't be too.careful....ISIS recruiters might use the queues as an opportunity to get some.new recruits...especially among all those OAPs currently getting vaccinated.
    As I pointed out at Breakfast: it is this government that made Prevent Training compulsory, and withdrew prescribing rights for retired doctors, by establishing the rules for Revalidation and License to practice in 2012.

    Its almost as if they are a bunch of turnip heads...
    And has anyone in the NHS suggested doing away with such bureaucracy at present ?

    Or are Boris and Hancock required to do all the thinking ?
    It is not in the power of the NHS to do so. The GMC has responsibility for medical licence to practice, and runs under government statute.

    Doctors have been moaning about it for a decade, and Nurses about their equivalent from the NMC.
    There has been a nursing regulator since the GNC was founded in the 1920s and the GMC was established in 1858, they have been around even before the NHS was created. I know as I work for one of them
    Exactly, and they are a separate body from the NHS, as you must know. The GMC now has a majority of government appointees, and hasn't been run by my profession for some years.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
    So is it not working on your phone?
    I haven't tried yet. Will check next time I move around. Might take a while to regain trust even if it does seem ok.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,210
    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
    Given GPS is American what will Brexit have changed?

    I find it incredibly hard to believe.
    I suspect final analysis will prove that this is not the Butterfly Effect (properly a property of chaotic systems where tiny changes in inputs below the threshold of measurement may result in massive changes in outputs), but rather the Coincidence Effect, very well understood by those conducting vaccine trials.
    It's horseshit. GPS is always inaccurate. My watch has GPS and Glonass (the Russian system) a few newer ones will have Galileo but it won't make much odds. Overcast weather is a much likelier culprit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,272
    edited January 2021
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NHS requiring your inside leg measurement and wang length before being allowed to be consideered for.volunteering to help with vaccination drive has finally been picked up by BBC..

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

    'Some medics have been asked for proof they are trained in areas such as preventing radicalisation.'
    Insane. They are going to see each person for what, five minutes?
    Can't be too.careful....ISIS recruiters might use the queues as an opportunity to get some.new recruits...especially among all those OAPs currently getting vaccinated.
    As I pointed out at Breakfast: it is this government that made Prevent Training compulsory, and withdrew prescribing rights for retired doctors, by establishing the rules for Revalidation and License to practice in 2012.

    Its almost as if they are a bunch of turnip heads...
    And has anyone in the NHS suggested doing away with such bureaucracy at present ?

    Or are Boris and Hancock required to do all the thinking ?
    It is not in the power of the NHS to do so. The GMC has responsibility for medical licence to practice, and runs under government statute.

    Doctors have been moaning about it for a decade, and Nurses about their equivalent from the NMC.
    There has been a nursing regulator since the GNC was founded in the 1920s and the GMC was established in 1858, they have been around even before the NHS was created. I know as I work for one of them
    Exactly, and they are a separate body from the NHS, as you must know. The GMC now has a majority of government appointees, and hasn't been run by my profession for some years.
    They are that is true, they have private doctors and private nurses as registrants too not just those working for the NHS.

    They are statutory bodies ultimately accountable to Parliament
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    edited January 2021
    MP Pub Quiz night with Lee Anderson if you are quick...

    https://www.facebook.com/LeeAndersoninAshfieldEastwood/videos/230908381928980

    It's going to be Google proof, as there will be some special personal answers about Mr Anderson.

    So the winner is the Mistress.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited January 2021

    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
    Given GPS is American what will Brexit have changed?

    I find it incredibly hard to believe.
    I suspect final analysis will prove that this is not the Butterfly Effect (properly a property of chaotic systems where tiny changes in inputs below the threshold of measurement may result in massive changes in outputs), but rather the Coincidence Effect, very well understood by those conducting vaccine trials.
    It's horseshit. GPS is always inaccurate. My watch has GPS and Glonass (the Russian system) a few newer ones will have Galileo but it won't make much odds. Overcast weather is a much likelier culprit.
    My iPhone GPS tracker on the Ordnance Survey App (GB and Parks) is remarkably accurate. Better than anything else I've ever used.
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257

    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
    Given GPS is American what will Brexit have changed?

    I find it incredibly hard to believe.
    I suspect final analysis will prove that this is not the Butterfly Effect (properly a property of chaotic systems where tiny changes in inputs below the threshold of measurement may result in massive changes in outputs), but rather the Coincidence Effect, very well understood by those conducting vaccine trials.
    :)

    As I understand it, it is mostly runners complaining because they all use Garmin watch devices. These all need the satellite almanac updating from time to time because they have no direct data connection. No doubt the last file was valid until 1/1.

    My phone was perfectly fine on a walk today.
    Yup, my Garmin watch gave me dodgy tracking data for my New Years Day run. Was confused, good to know it is not just me. PB, the font of all knowledge! Reminds me, I will donate...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
    Given GPS is American what will Brexit have changed?

    I find it incredibly hard to believe.
    But that’s the point of regression testing. To pick up things that ought not to be impacted but are.

    Doubt Johnson would have a clue what I'm talking about.
  • On topic I honestly don't think Trump cares two hoots about the GOP or the Georgia elections. He never did care for the GOP except as a vehicle to get him into and keep him in power and now that that has failed I think he will gladly see it crash and burn.
  • Feel sorry for the Doctors, they are in engaging in battlefield triage effectively.

    NHS bosses are set to cancel urgent surgery across London in a move that could mean cancer patients waiting months for potentially lifesaving operations, the Observer can reveal.

    NHS England chiefs are considering the drastic action because hospitals across the capital are becoming overwhelmed by people who are very sick with Covid-19.

    The operations likely to be cancelled, known as “priority two” procedures, mainly involve surgery for cancer where specialists have judged that the patients need to be operated on within four weeks. Any delay could allow their tumour to grow, the disease to spread or both, thus reducing their chances of survival.

    Health service executives and cancer experts fear patients’ cancers may worsen, or even become inoperable, if surgery is postponed for an unknown length of time.

    “These are operations that are curative if done within four weeks but if you wait longer they may not be so effective”, said one senior London NHS figure. “The impact of this on patients’ health depends on when they get rebooked. Delaying cancer surgery can lead to tumours growing or spreading – and worse outcomes.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/cancer-operations-face-cancellation-across-london-as-covid-patients-fill-hospitals
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
    Given GPS is American what will Brexit have changed?

    I find it incredibly hard to believe.
    But that’s the point of regression testing. To pick up things that ought not to be impacted but are.

    Doubt Johnson would have a clue what I'm talking about.
    It certainly isn't all GPS. I was surveying today using a Total Station that uses GPS and it is still accurate to a few mm.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,210

    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Tres said:

    Another benefit of Brexit? Lots of runners reporting GPS tracking is wildly off since we left.

    I find that exceedingly unlikely given GPS has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
    It's the butterfly effect. You see it in IT a lot. When you make a big change you are supposed to not just test the new functionality but also do something called regression testing to make sure that other ostensibly unrelated things are not fucked up. But it's not the glamour end of the business - to put it mildly - and so is invariably skimped. The upshot is that in the days and weeks following implementation you often find some surprising things going wrong. Things that used to work just fine now do not.

    I imagine that's what has happened here with Brexit and GPS. Another casualty of Johnson's trademark slapdashery.
    Given GPS is American what will Brexit have changed?

    I find it incredibly hard to believe.
    I suspect final analysis will prove that this is not the Butterfly Effect (properly a property of chaotic systems where tiny changes in inputs below the threshold of measurement may result in massive changes in outputs), but rather the Coincidence Effect, very well understood by those conducting vaccine trials.
    It's horseshit. GPS is always inaccurate. My watch has GPS and Glonass (the Russian system) a few newer ones will have Galileo but it won't make much odds. Overcast weather is a much likelier culprit.
    My iPhone GPS tracker on the Ordnance Survey App (GB and Parks) is remarkably accurate. Better than anything else I've ever used.
    Actually I struggled to get a position using OSMAnd on my walk yesterday so @Flatlander might have a point. Today's 5k time trial ended slightly before I might have expected it to, but it was within normal error and I don't necessarily start at the same place or take the racing line all the way roud. Was my fastest 5k in over two years, as it turns out.
This discussion has been closed.