So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
My info is that in London it's close to overflow. Real crisis coming.
As for Tobes, he's surpassed himself. Tweeting photos of "empty hospitals" to further his case that there is no problem, they turn out to be pictures from 2012. Of Guantanamo Bay.
An independent Scotland would have different spending priorities than the UK. For example, it would not seek to be a world power, and would spend less on defence. It would spend more on social needs. That would be the case whichever party was in power in an independent Scotland, probably even the Conservatives, as if they followed hard right policies, they would not be elected.
Not true for Ireland which now spends less and taxes less as a percentage of gdp than the UK.
In fact in recent years both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have followed a near Thatcherite economic agenda
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
I don’t think I’ve seen any unionist on here slagging off the Irish as “poor country hicks”
You obviously must be ignoring those then , was not long ago they wanted to starve them as well. England has always derided the Irish as being dumb , poor , etc. They have everlasting resentment that Ireland chucked them out.
You know my mother's family history in Ireland, right?
That is not evidence, it is anecdotal bullsh8t. It also does not refute Young's claim.
Um, no, A says that x is evidence that x. The problem is innumerate twits who misunderstand and then over-generalise some special rules which apply to medical interventions only, and think that Toby Young's utterances are exempt from those rules anyway.
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
My info is that in London it's close to overflow. Real crisis coming.
As for Tobes, he's surpassed himself. Tweeting photos of "empty hospitals" to further his case that there is no problem, they turn out to be pictures from 2012. Of Guantanamo Bay.
More anecdotal bullsh8t and desperate strawmanning.
That is not evidence, it is anecdotal bullsh8t. It also does not refute Young's claim.
Um, no, A says that x is evidence that x. The problem is innumerate twits who misunderstand and then over-generalise some special rules which apply to medical interventions only, and think that Toby Young's utterances are exempt from those rules anyway.
Young's data is compiled from the NHS's own numbers and nobody has come up with a set of numbers to refute it.
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
I don’t think I’ve seen any unionist on here slagging off the Irish as “poor country hicks”
You obviously must be ignoring those then , was not long ago they wanted to starve them as well. England has always derided the Irish as being dumb , poor , etc. They have everlasting resentment that Ireland chucked them out.
You know my mother's family history in Ireland, right?
Despite your best efforts not everyone knows your family history.
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
Yes, it’s very embarrassing for UNICEF to help children in London.
It is disgraceful that we can’t feed children properly, but it isn’t just a unionist problem.
Given that social security and Family Credit are not devolved and that Scotish income tax favours the less well paid, I think you need to look more to the UK government than the Scottish one (which, for instance, is mitigating the bedroom tax).
‘it happened despite their policies on FSM.’
London runs Scotland and controls the budgets, shame on the greedy barstewards, I hope they get their just desserts. Noted that you ignore that it is reserved powers to London as usual.
FSM are a reserved power to London? Then how come the SNP extended them?
Or are the National and the Scotsman both lying?
The issue is that ift he Scxottish Government deviates from London policy it has to take the money from elsewhere within the overall budget determined by London, and/or tax a bit more. That is where the moneyt for the bedroom tax mitigation and FSM comes from.
I am aware of that.
My point is, even having used those powers, it hasn’t been enough to avoid Scotland needing international aid, just as has happened in England.
Now you might argue with perfect justification that there are a number of very good reasons for that. After all, Scotland is a poorer country than England, and has massive legacy problems with poverty, drug addiction and housing that are certainly not the fault of the SNP - in fact, many of them have defeated governments of all types for over fifty years.
But MalcolmG was, rather disgustingly, trying to make a political point out of it by implying it only affected countries governed by ‘unionists.’ I was pointing out he was wrong.
Edit - and truthfully, the main question we should be asking about all of this, as with foodbanks, is why they are needed, and how do we change matters so they stop being needed?
In fairness to Malcy, the Londion Gmt are (a) unionists and (b) in charge of several major factors that affect familial income.
We do have people who think food banks are a good thing as that lets us give charitably. But that's uncomfortablu like the arguments of the early C19 (IIRC 1840s for the shift from parish relief to a Poor Law in Scotland).
I was meaning to ask you, out of interest as you actually work at the chalkface, do you think FSMs are a good thing? For all children or just the poor?
They are a very good thing, but especially for those whose parents can’t afford lots of food at home. It means they get one good meal a day, which helps nutritionally (very important in a child - all that growing they do) and educationally (hunger is one the biggest causes of disruptive behaviour). It also means the money parents do have can go further.
There is a case, particularly at primary school, for giving all children the same school meal paid for by the govenrment. This would mean there’s no singling out of children whose parents are poorer over it, and ensure standards of nutrition are maintained for all children (I think many people would be unpleasantly surprised to learn just how many children eat only crisps and sweets at lunchtime, and that’s nothing to do with money). Unfortunately, that breaks down not so much over cost as over logistics (again, many people were I think shocked at the revelation of how few schools have kitchens).
But actually, breakfast clubs are even more important for poorer children, because otherwise it can be 18 hours between decent meals - far, far too long for a child - and much energy and learning is done in the morning.
An independent Scotland would have different spending priorities than the UK. For example, it would not seek to be a world power, and would spend less on defence. It would spend more on social needs. That would be the case whichever party was in power in an independent Scotland, probably even the Conservatives, as if they followed hard right policies, they would not be elected.
Not true for Ireland which now spends less and taxes less as a percentage of gdp than the UK.
In fact in recent years both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have followed a near Thatcherite economic agenda
Which is precisely why Scotland should go independent.
Thatcherism works. Ireland discovered that and haven't looked back.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Not that the weasel word 'apprently' (sic) makes me at all suspicious, but any proof of this?
Proof .. well, it was reported in the Daily Merkle a few days ago.
Former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has been accused of breaking Tier 4 lockdown rules after meeting three people, including his brother, on his doorstep on Christmas Day.
That is not evidence, it is anecdotal bullsh8t. It also does not refute Young's claim.
I texted Young's tweet to a Doctor friend on the front line, his views.
Young is citing ten day old stats, I'm not sure if you've been paying attention to the news things have accelerated since then. If he used yesterday's figures when available he might bang a different tune.
Also, Young might not realise that not all Covid-19 patients are being treated in ICU, and given the way it progresses ICU is a lagging indicator, especially ten day old stats.
I'm sure once the Christmas hall pass figures are taken into account then Young will stop citing these stats the way he used to pimp the Sweden stats.
That is not evidence, it is anecdotal bullsh8t. It also does not refute Young's claim.
Um, no, A says that x is evidence that x. The problem is innumerate twits who misunderstand and then over-generalise some special rules which apply to medical interventions only, and think that Toby Young's utterances are exempt from those rules anyway.
Young's data is compiled from the NHS's own numbers and nobody has come up with a set of numbers to refute it.
Just shrill anecdotal alarmism
This isn't a steady state: the numbers are going up. And ICU numbers a priori lag behind admissions which lag behind onsets.
At the moment the Government website has 2115 patients admitted on 21 December (nothinbg later). The worst peak in the spring was something like 2.5K (averaging out a bit).
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
Yes, it’s very embarrassing for UNICEF to help children in London.
It is disgraceful that we can’t feed children properly, but it isn’t just a unionist problem.
Unionists control it from London , despite the best efforts of Scottish Government using some of their meagre pocket money to alleviate poverty , they have no chance of overcoming London policies. You just cannot get your head round or understand what "Powers Reserved to London" means do you.
You mean, like a second referendum?
Or is that a power that’s somehow magically not reserved to London, because only when the SNP have failed in something is it London’s fault?
I mean like any meaningful power, you unionists are shit scared to allow a referendum, despite constantly telling u show poor , stupid , etc we are and unable to look after ourselves. The buck stops in London , they are in control.
Ummm...again, Malc, I have always said that an SNP majority next year should lead to another referendum.
Unfortunately, what you and others here are demonstrating is that Scotsnats literally have passed reason. You don’t care what facts are, you just twist or invent them to suit your agenda. You are reminding me, right now, very much of Donald Trump.
My suspicion is that as a result Scotland will do a Brexit-style departure from the UK, on the back of a number of these twisted facts becoming impossible promises, and at the end when Nats are celebrating ‘freedom’ everyone else will be wondering if the marginal gain in independence was worth the cost.
It will be worth it , impossible to make a worse hash of it than London does and hopefully will mean other real Scottish political parties will emerge rather than the sad sack London ones we have now that provide no opposition or sense to debates. Anything will be better than what we have now.
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
I don’t think I’ve seen any unionist on here slagging off the Irish as “poor country hicks”
You obviously must be ignoring those then , was not long ago they wanted to starve them as well. England has always derided the Irish as being dumb , poor , etc. They have everlasting resentment that Ireland chucked them out.
You know my mother's family history in Ireland, right?
Despite your best efforts not everyone knows your family history.
I've posted about it in the past in a discussion with @Cyclefree on this topic.
My uncle has a lot of our family papers on the Famine in Connaught and I wrote a dissertation on it
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
The spokesman for the Welsh Health Department yesterday said that they have 241 ICU beds in total and occupancy is normally around 150. They were at 210 as of yesterday and expected to run out before the end of the week.
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
My info is that in London it's close to overflow. Real crisis coming.
As for Tobes, he's surpassed himself. Tweeting photos of "empty hospitals" to further his case that there is no problem, they turn out to be pictures from 2012. Of Guantanamo Bay.
More anecdotal bullsh8t and desperate strawmanning.
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
My info is that in London it's close to overflow. Real crisis coming.
As for Tobes, he's surpassed himself. Tweeting photos of "empty hospitals" to further his case that there is no problem, they turn out to be pictures from 2012. Of Guantanamo Bay.
More anecdotal bullsh8t and desperate strawmanning.
Young's numbers are from the NHS's own data.
Link please.
don;t have the technology, but the graphic is easily findable on his twitter stream.
Now there is a hostage to fortune in the second sentence...leaving aside 2007 when they supported Morgan instead of turfing out Labour (in fairness, largely the fault of the Liberal Democrats rather than Plaid).
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
Yes, it’s very embarrassing for UNICEF to help children in London.
It is disgraceful that we can’t feed children properly, but it isn’t just a unionist problem.
Given that social security and Family Credit are not devolved and that Scotish income tax favours the less well paid, I think you need to look more to the UK government than the Scottish one (which, for instance, is mitigating the bedroom tax).
‘it happened despite their policies on FSM.’
London runs Scotland and controls the budgets, shame on the greedy barstewards, I hope they get their just desserts. Noted that you ignore that it is reserved powers to London as usual.
FSM are a reserved power to London? Then how come the SNP extended them?
Or are the National and the Scotsman both lying?
The issue is that ift he Scxottish Government deviates from London policy it has to take the money from elsewhere within the overall budget determined by London, and/or tax a bit more. That is where the moneyt for the bedroom tax mitigation and FSM comes from.
I am aware of that.
My point is, even having used those powers, it hasn’t been enough to avoid Scotland needing international aid, just as has happened in England.
Now you might argue with perfect justification that there are a number of very good reasons for that. After all, Scotland is a poorer country than England, and has massive legacy problems with poverty, drug addiction and housing that are certainly not the fault of the SNP - in fact, many of them have defeated governments of all types for over fifty years.
But MalcolmG was, rather disgustingly, trying to make a political point out of it by implying it only affected countries governed by ‘unionists.’ I was pointing out he was wrong.
Edit - and truthfully, the main question we should be asking about all of this, as with foodbanks, is why they are needed, and how do we change matters so they stop being needed?
You were trying and failing to point out I was wrong. I correctly pointed out that it is dumb unionists in London who have created the poverty in Scotland and England and Wales and NI. Scotland who actually have a higher GDP than anywhere except London despite unionists best efforts. Foodbanks etc are needed due to the greed and shit policies of Tories.
So - you’re basically in agreement with me that the SNP attempts to mitigate it have failed, and that is why UNICEF needed to provide food aid in Scotland?
What I am saying is that the small amount they can do under the constraints of London rule means they are unable to alleviate the poverty. Who knows what they could do if they had the budget of their own country rather than pocket money and extremely limited powers to change anything.
That is not evidence, it is anecdotal bullsh8t. It also does not refute Young's claim.
Um, no, A says that x is evidence that x. The problem is innumerate twits who misunderstand and then over-generalise some special rules which apply to medical interventions only, and think that Toby Young's utterances are exempt from those rules anyway.
Young's data is compiled from the NHS's own numbers and nobody has come up with a set of numbers to refute it.
Just shrill anecdotal alarmism
Show us the numbers.
The Spectator which I am sure is the word of God to you shows for 20 December everywhere pretty much average, but SE above average and London way above average
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
Yes, it’s very embarrassing for UNICEF to help children in London.
It is disgraceful that we can’t feed children properly, but it isn’t just a unionist problem.
Given that social security and Family Credit are not devolved and that Scotish income tax favours the less well paid, I think you need to look more to the UK government than the Scottish one (which, for instance, is mitigating the bedroom tax).
‘it happened despite their policies on FSM.’
London runs Scotland and controls the budgets, shame on the greedy barstewards, I hope they get their just desserts. Noted that you ignore that it is reserved powers to London as usual.
FSM are a reserved power to London? Then how come the SNP extended them?
Or are the National and the Scotsman both lying?
The issue is that ift he Scxottish Government deviates from London policy it has to take the money from elsewhere within the overall budget determined by London, and/or tax a bit more. That is where the moneyt for the bedroom tax mitigation and FSM comes from.
I am aware of that.
My point is, even having used those powers, it hasn’t been enough to avoid Scotland needing international aid, just as has happened in England.
Now you might argue with perfect justification that there are a number of very good reasons for that. After all, Scotland is a poorer country than England, and has massive legacy problems with poverty, drug addiction and housing that are certainly not the fault of the SNP - in fact, many of them have defeated governments of all types for over fifty years.
But MalcolmG was, rather disgustingly, trying to make a political point out of it by implying it only affected countries governed by ‘unionists.’ I was pointing out he was wrong.
Edit - and truthfully, the main question we should be asking about all of this, as with foodbanks, is why they are needed, and how do we change matters so they stop being needed?
In fairness to Malcy, the Londion Gmt are (a) unionists and (b) in charge of several major factors that affect familial income.
We do have people who think food banks are a good thing as that lets us give charitably. But that's uncomfortablu like the arguments of the early C19 (IIRC 1840s for the shift from parish relief to a Poor Law in Scotland).
I was meaning to ask you, out of interest as you actually work at the chalkface, do you think FSMs are a good thing? For all children or just the poor?
They are a very good thing, but especially for those whose parents can’t afford lots of food at home. It means they get one good meal a day, which helps nutritionally (very important in a child - all that growing they do) and educationally (hunger is one the biggest causes of disruptive behaviour). It also means the money parents do have can go further.
There is a case, particularly at primary school, for giving all children the same school meal paid for by the govenrment. This would mean there’s no singling out of children whose parents are poorer over it, and ensure standards of nutrition are maintained for all children (I think many people would be unpleasantly surprised to learn just how many children eat only crisps and sweets at lunchtime, and that’s nothing to do with money). Unfortunately, that breaks down not so much over cost as over logistics (again, many people were I think shocked at the revelation of how few schools have kitchens).
But actually, breakfast clubs are even more important for poorer children, because otherwise it can be 18 hours between decent meals - far, far too long for a child - and much energy and learning is done in the morning.
Thanks for that. It all makes excellent sense. I've been struck by the filthy mess of chip papers and sweety wrappers the local teenagers leave between their two secondary schools and the nearest supermarkets and fast-food places, and have often wondered ...
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Not that the weasel word 'apprently' (sic) makes me at all suspicious, but any proof of this?
Proof .. well, it was reported in the Daily Merkle a few days ago.
The DM seems to have found some outraged (but anonymous) nurses at RAH, Paisley.
if it were really true, I would have expected the story to have gathered some momentum since 22 December.
So, my guess is it is bollox.
Probably, but the killer combo of the Daily Mail and 'a nurse insider' (which seems to have mysteriously shrunk from 'nurses' at the start of the piece) certainly gives one pause for thought.
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
The spokesman for the Welsh Health Department yesterday said that they have 241 ICU beds in total and occupancy is normally around 150. They were at 210 as of yesterday and expected to run out before the end of the week.
Normal for the summer or normal for this time of year?
If you look at Young's graphic it would be very unusual to have an ICU occupancy below 70% or even 80% at this time of year.
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
Yes, it’s very embarrassing for UNICEF to help children in London.
It is disgraceful that we can’t feed children properly, but it isn’t just a unionist problem.
Given that social security and Family Credit are not devolved and that Scotish income tax favours the less well paid, I think you need to look more to the UK government than the Scottish one (which, for instance, is mitigating the bedroom tax).
‘it happened despite their policies on FSM.’
London runs Scotland and controls the budgets, shame on the greedy barstewards, I hope they get their just desserts. Noted that you ignore that it is reserved powers to London as usual.
FSM are a reserved power to London? Then how come the SNP extended them?
Or are the National and the Scotsman both lying?
The issue is that ift he Scxottish Government deviates from London policy it has to take the money from elsewhere within the overall budget determined by London, and/or tax a bit more. That is where the moneyt for the bedroom tax mitigation and FSM comes from.
I am aware of that.
My point is, even having used those powers, it hasn’t been enough to avoid Scotland needing international aid, just as has happened in England.
Now you might argue with perfect justification that there are a number of very good reasons for that. After all, Scotland is a poorer country than England, and has massive legacy problems with poverty, drug addiction and housing that are certainly not the fault of the SNP - in fact, many of them have defeated governments of all types for over fifty years.
But MalcolmG was, rather disgustingly, trying to make a political point out of it by implying it only affected countries governed by ‘unionists.’ I was pointing out he was wrong.
Edit - and truthfully, the main question we should be asking about all of this, as with foodbanks, is why they are needed, and how do we change matters so they stop being needed?
You were trying and failing to point out I was wrong. I correctly pointed out that it is dumb unionists in London who have created the poverty in Scotland and England and Wales and NI. Scotland who actually have a higher GDP than anywhere except London despite unionists best efforts. Foodbanks etc are needed due to the greed and shit policies of Tories.
So - you’re basically in agreement with me that the SNP attempts to mitigate it have failed, and that is why UNICEF needed to provide food aid in Scotland?
What I am saying is that the small amount they can do under the constraints of London rule means they are unable to alleviate the poverty. Who knows what they could do if they had the budget of their own country rather than pocket money and extremely limited powers to change anything.
So - the SNP have tried to do something, and have failed, and therefore it’s the fault of the unionists.
So to come back to your original point, regardless of powers or geographical location, it’s the unionists’ fault because they are unionists?
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
My info is that in London it's close to overflow. Real crisis coming.
As for Tobes, he's surpassed himself. Tweeting photos of "empty hospitals" to further his case that there is no problem, they turn out to be pictures from 2012. Of Guantanamo Bay.
That is not evidence, it is anecdotal bullsh8t. It also does not refute Young's claim.
Um, no, A says that x is evidence that x. The problem is innumerate twits who misunderstand and then over-generalise some special rules which apply to medical interventions only, and think that Toby Young's utterances are exempt from those rules anyway.
Young's data is compiled from the NHS's own numbers and nobody has come up with a set of numbers to refute it.
Just shrill anecdotal alarmism
Show us the numbers.
This the tweet, note the date he's using to make the comparison.
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
My info is that in London it's close to overflow. Real crisis coming.
As for Tobes, he's surpassed himself. Tweeting photos of "empty hospitals" to further his case that there is no problem, they turn out to be pictures from 2012. Of Guantanamo Bay.
More anecdotal bullsh8t and desperate strawmanning.
Young's numbers are from the NHS's own data.
Link please.
don;t have the technology, but the graphic is easily findable on his twitter stream.
There's a 'copy link' under the symbol with arrow on the bottom rh of every tweet, you can c&p the tweet with the graphic on it very easily.
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
The spokesman for the Welsh Health Department yesterday said that they have 241 ICU beds in total and occupancy is normally around 150. They were at 210 as of yesterday and expected to run out before the end of the week.
Normal for the summer or normal for this time of year?
If you look at Young's graphic it would be very unusual to have an ICU occupancy below 70% or even 80% at this time of year.
See what they did there?
Let's "see what they did there" in mid-January, when despite the usual winter flu cases largely failing to materialise on their wards, it has been massively swapped out for Covid. With the ensuing breakage of the NHS in various little places, like London and Wales.
I look forward to you coming back then and apologising.
That is not evidence, it is anecdotal bullsh8t. It also does not refute Young's claim.
Um, no, A says that x is evidence that x. The problem is innumerate twits who misunderstand and then over-generalise some special rules which apply to medical interventions only, and think that Toby Young's utterances are exempt from those rules anyway.
Young's data is compiled from the NHS's own numbers and nobody has come up with a set of numbers to refute it.
Just shrill anecdotal alarmism
Show us the numbers.
Very easily findable on his twitter stream.
I seriously hope he's wrong and hope you can prove him wrong. Because if he isn;t, something is wrong.
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
The spokesman for the Welsh Health Department yesterday said that they have 241 ICU beds in total and occupancy is normally around 150. They were at 210 as of yesterday and expected to run out before the end of the week.
Normal for the summer or normal for this time of year?
If you look at Young's graphic it would be very unusual to have an ICU occupancy below 70% or even 80% at this time of year.
See what they did there?
Well since 80% of 241 would be 193, the 210 quoted for yesterday is still above average and running out by the end of the week is definitely above average.
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
My info is that in London it's close to overflow. Real crisis coming.
As for Tobes, he's surpassed himself. Tweeting photos of "empty hospitals" to further his case that there is no problem, they turn out to be pictures from 2012. Of Guantanamo Bay.
Bulgaria and the Czech Republic have moved ahead of the UK in terms of deaths per capita from Covid-19. Not sure what type of lockdowns they have in those countries.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Not that the weasel word 'apprently' (sic) makes me at all suspicious, but any proof of this?
Proof .. well, it was reported in the Daily Merkle a few days ago.
The DM seems to have found some outraged (but anonymous) nurses at RAH, Paisley.
if it were really true, I would have expected the story to have gathered some momentum since 22 December.
So, my guess is it is bollox.
Probably, but the killer combo of the Daily Mail and 'a nurse insider' (which seems to have mysteriously shrunk from 'nurses' at the start of the piece) certainly gives one pause for thought.
Also, the wor45ding is sneaky - it gives the impression all the admin staff were done first. But it could have been one or two who were rounded up quickly to use up the last drops in the vial of the day. Remember what Foxy said about how these things were done - they grabbed as many NHS folk as they could on the spot or were phoneupandcomeinable to use up the day's drops once the oldies were done.
So allowing for a bit of fraying around the edges and people strangely unable to get their technology to work on the day, the Brexit deal vote looks ballpark 500-100.
A Brexit arrangement "overwhelmingly passed by this House...." as Boris will no doubt often remind us.
Bulgaria and the Czech Republic have moved ahead of the UK in terms of deaths per capita from Covid-19. Not sure what type of lockdowns they have in those countries.
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
My info is that in London it's close to overflow. Real crisis coming.
As for Tobes, he's surpassed himself. Tweeting photos of "empty hospitals" to further his case that there is no problem, they turn out to be pictures from 2012. Of Guantanamo Bay.
More anecdotal bullsh8t and desperate strawmanning.
Young's numbers are from the NHS's own data.
Link please.
don;t have the technology, but the graphic is easily findable on his twitter stream.
There's a 'copy link' under the symbol with arrow on the bottom rh of every tweet, you can c&p the tweet with the graphic on it very easily.
thanks
TSE posted it.
As I say, I want Young to be wrong. I want to know the enormous sacrifices the ordinary people of Britain are making, and will be making for decades to come, are being made in a good cause.
It's good that someone with Gavin Esler's views is asking questions about the Nightingale Hospitals instead of just saying "they don't have the staff" as if that someone explains why millions were spent setting them up if there might not have been enough people to staff them.
That is not evidence, it is anecdotal bullsh8t. It also does not refute Young's claim.
Um, no, A says that x is evidence that x. The problem is innumerate twits who misunderstand and then over-generalise some special rules which apply to medical interventions only, and think that Toby Young's utterances are exempt from those rules anyway.
Young's data is compiled from the NHS's own numbers and nobody has come up with a set of numbers to refute it.
Just shrill anecdotal alarmism
Show us the numbers.
This the tweet, note the date he's using to make the comparison.
I went an dug around in the ONS numbers - it turns out that the the hospitalisation rates they are using *are* based on the percentage of that age group in the population. So when they say 137.2 per 100k hospitalisation rate for over 85s - that means 137.2 per 100 thousand people over the age of 85....
I used 2019 census data to create this
Age Deaths Hospitalisations Number 85 years and over 41.75% 23.20% 1,647,271 75 to 84 years 32.82% 25.75% 4,040,624 65 to 74 years 15.14% 17.91% 6,687,066 45 to 64 years 9.24% 21.74% 17,224,230 15 to 44 years 1.03% 9.84% 25,236,635 1 to 14 years 0.01% 1.50% 11,238,100 Under 1 year 0.00% 0.05% 722,881
Thanks, that's very helpful. So it's a little better than I thought, but not much better. About 34% of hospitalizations are under 65s, so if over 65s were completely removed by vaccination it's still less than two doublings in the rest of the population to bring it back to crisis. Looks like vaccinating down to about 45* would, with spread hopefully also slowed by immunity, make it safe to relax restrictions a good amount.
So allowing for a bit of fraying around the edges and people strangely unable to get their technology to work on the day, the Brexit deal vote looks ballpark 500-100.
A Brexit arrangement "overwhelmingly passed by this House...." as Boris will no doubt often remind us.
Would Boris want to share credit for the deal with the House or keep it for himself?
No doubt he will be reiterating that he Got Brexit Done - despite the claim in February that was now forbidden to say since we got it done in January.
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
The spokesman for the Welsh Health Department yesterday said that they have 241 ICU beds in total and occupancy is normally around 150. They were at 210 as of yesterday and expected to run out before the end of the week.
Normal for the summer or normal for this time of year?
If you look at Young's graphic it would be very unusual to have an ICU occupancy below 70% or even 80% at this time of year.
See what they did there?
We may disagree on much but I quite enjoy your posts and would wish you no harm. So please do not spend too long looking at "Young's graphic". And I don't mean just this one.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Not that the weasel word 'apprently' (sic) makes me at all suspicious, but any proof of this?
Proof .. well, it was reported in the Daily Merkle a few days ago.
The DM seems to have found some outraged (but anonymous) nurses at RAH, Paisley.
if it were really true, I would have expected the story to have gathered some momentum since 22 December.
So, my guess is it is bollox.
Probably, but the killer combo of the Daily Mail and 'a nurse insider' (which seems to have mysteriously shrunk from 'nurses' at the start of the piece) certainly gives one pause for thought.
I would be very surprised if this is not happening, at least on a small scale, everywhere. It certainly is at the hospital (in PA, USA) where my wife works. Physicians, even surgeons, who are not in the top priority group (i.e. those who do not perform aerosol-generating procedures) are even lying to get bumped up.
Surprisingly, among non-physician and non-nurse healthcare workers at the hospital, the opposite problem exists - getting some of them to agree to get the vaccine.
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
Yes, it’s very embarrassing for UNICEF to help children in London.
It is disgraceful that we can’t feed children properly, but it isn’t just a unionist problem.
Given that social security and Family Credit are not devolved and that Scotish income tax favours the less well paid, I think you need to look more to the UK government than the Scottish one (which, for instance, is mitigating the bedroom tax).
‘it happened despite their policies on FSM.’
London runs Scotland and controls the budgets, shame on the greedy barstewards, I hope they get their just desserts. Noted that you ignore that it is reserved powers to London as usual.
FSM are a reserved power to London? Then how come the SNP extended them?
Or are the National and the Scotsman both lying?
The issue is that ift he Scxottish Government deviates from London policy it has to take the money from elsewhere within the overall budget determined by London, and/or tax a bit more. That is where the moneyt for the bedroom tax mitigation and FSM comes from.
I am aware of that.
My point is, even having used those powers, it hasn’t been enough to avoid Scotland needing international aid, just as has happened in England.
Now you might argue with perfect justification that there are a number of very good reasons for that. After all, Scotland is a poorer country than England, and has massive legacy problems with poverty, drug addiction and housing that are certainly not the fault of the SNP - in fact, many of them have defeated governments of all types for over fifty years.
But MalcolmG was, rather disgustingly, trying to make a political point out of it by implying it only affected countries governed by ‘unionists.’ I was pointing out he was wrong.
Edit - and truthfully, the main question we should be asking about all of this, as with foodbanks, is why they are needed, and how do we change matters so they stop being needed?
In fairness to Malcy, the Londion Gmt are (a) unionists and (b) in charge of several major factors that affect familial income.
We do have people who think food banks are a good thing as that lets us give charitably. But that's uncomfortablu like the arguments of the early C19 (IIRC 1840s for the shift from parish relief to a Poor Law in Scotland).
I was meaning to ask you, out of interest as you actually work at the chalkface, do you think FSMs are a good thing? For all children or just the poor?
They are a very good thing, but especially for those whose parents can’t afford lots of food at home. It means they get one good meal a day, which helps nutritionally (very important in a child - all that growing they do) and educationally (hunger is one the biggest causes of disruptive behaviour). It also means the money parents do have can go further.
There is a case, particularly at primary school, for giving all children the same school meal paid for by the govenrment. This would mean there’s no singling out of children whose parents are poorer over it, and ensure standards of nutrition are maintained for all children (I think many people would be unpleasantly surprised to learn just how many children eat only crisps and sweets at lunchtime, and that’s nothing to do with money). Unfortunately, that breaks down not so much over cost as over logistics (again, many people were I think shocked at the revelation of how few schools have kitchens).
But actually, breakfast clubs are even more important for poorer children, because otherwise it can be 18 hours between decent meals - far, far too long for a child - and much energy and learning is done in the morning.
Thanks for that. It all makes excellent sense. I've been struck by the filthy mess of chip papers and sweety wrappers the local teenagers leave between their two secondary schools and the nearest supermarkets and fast-food places, and have often wondered ...
Of course, I should point out, providing the food is only step 1. Step 2 is persuading them to eat a nice jacket potato and filling rather than a Mackies....
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
My info is that in London it's close to overflow. Real crisis coming.
As for Tobes, he's surpassed himself. Tweeting photos of "empty hospitals" to further his case that there is no problem, they turn out to be pictures from 2012. Of Guantanamo Bay.
More anecdotal bullsh8t and desperate strawmanning.
Young's numbers are from the NHS's own data.
Link please.
don;t have the technology, but the graphic is easily findable on his twitter stream.
There's a 'copy link' under the symbol with arrow on the bottom rh of every tweet, you can c&p the tweet with the graphic on it very easily.
That is not evidence, it is anecdotal bullsh8t. It also does not refute Young's claim.
Um, no, A says that x is evidence that x. The problem is innumerate twits who misunderstand and then over-generalise some special rules which apply to medical interventions only, and think that Toby Young's utterances are exempt from those rules anyway.
Young's data is compiled from the NHS's own numbers and nobody has come up with a set of numbers to refute it.
Just shrill anecdotal alarmism
Show us the numbers.
Very easily findable on his twitter stream.
I seriously hope he's wrong and hope you can prove him wrong. Because if he isn;t, something is wrong.
Why are you giving any credence at all to someone who pretends that photos of empty beds in Guantanamo in 2012 are evidence of empty beds in NHS hospitals today? Just how gullible are you?
It's good that someone with Gavin Esler's views is asking questions about the Nightingale Hospitals instead of just saying "they don't have the staff" as if that someone explains why millions were spent setting them up if there might not have been enough people to staff them.
My surgery has just contacted me to make an appointment for the jab at 2pm tomorrow and a second jab on Jan 20th.
Wow - that's fast and efficient. I'm in the 75-80 cohort. I think the over 80s are all jabbed here.
Nationwide things seem a bit patchy. My elderly and very high risk parents still no sign of getting it. They literally tick every box for COVID danger.
My surgery has just contacted me to make an appointment for the jab at 2pm tomorrow and a second jab on Jan 20th.
Wow - that's fast and efficient. I'm in the 75-80 cohort. I think the over 80s are all jabbed here.
My mother has just been contacted this morning. She is in the 75 - 80 cohort but is being pulled in early as she is a volunteer hospital chaplain. She has her first jab on Sunday 3rd and second on Sunday 24th.
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
Yes, it’s very embarrassing for UNICEF to help children in London.
It is disgraceful that we can’t feed children properly, but it isn’t just a unionist problem.
Unionists control it from London , despite the best efforts of Scottish Government using some of their meagre pocket money to alleviate poverty , they have no chance of overcoming London policies. You just cannot get your head round or understand what "Powers Reserved to London" means do you.
You mean, like a second referendum?
Or is that a power that’s somehow magically not reserved to London, because only when the SNP have failed in something is it London’s fault?
I mean like any meaningful power, you unionists are shit scared to allow a referendum, despite constantly telling u show poor , stupid , etc we are and unable to look after ourselves. The buck stops in London , they are in control.
Ummm...again, Malc, I have always said that an SNP majority next year should lead to another referendum.
Unfortunately, what you and others here are demonstrating is that Scotsnats literally have passed reason. You don’t care what facts are, you just twist or invent them to suit your agenda. You are reminding me, right now, very much of Donald Trump.
My suspicion is that as a result Scotland will do a Brexit-style departure from the UK, on the back of a number of these twisted facts becoming impossible promises, and at the end when Nats are celebrating ‘freedom’ everyone else will be wondering if the marginal gain in independence was worth the cost.
I'm surprised you use Trump as an example of twisting facts when a more glaring and odious example is so much closer to home.
That is not evidence, it is anecdotal bullsh8t. It also does not refute Young's claim.
Um, no, A says that x is evidence that x. The problem is innumerate twits who misunderstand and then over-generalise some special rules which apply to medical interventions only, and think that Toby Young's utterances are exempt from those rules anyway.
Young's data is compiled from the NHS's own numbers and nobody has come up with a set of numbers to refute it.
Just shrill anecdotal alarmism
Show us the numbers.
This the tweet, note the date he's using to make the comparison.
(also doesn't take into account that not every Covid-19 patient is in ICU at the moment, there's HDUs as well.)
Cases are increasing by about 1/4 to 1/3 every week. As ICU is proportional to that, it suggests they are just about hitting capacity now. There won't be enough beds in a couple of weeks time.
Edit on Toby's actual point. There are more beds available now, so the Trust directors may well be telling the truth that they are treating more patients even if occupancy is slightly lower.
My surgery has just contacted me to make an appointment for the jab at 2pm tomorrow and a second jab on Jan 20th.
Wow - that's fast and efficient. I'm in the 75-80 cohort. I think the over 80s are all jabbed here.
My dad is 80 and he hasn't been contacted yet. But he's not on any medication or anything like that so maybe he's at the bottom of the queue of people in that age group.
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
Yes, it’s very embarrassing for UNICEF to help children in London.
It is disgraceful that we can’t feed children properly, but it isn’t just a unionist problem.
Unionists control it from London , despite the best efforts of Scottish Government using some of their meagre pocket money to alleviate poverty , they have no chance of overcoming London policies. You just cannot get your head round or understand what "Powers Reserved to London" means do you.
You mean, like a second referendum?
Or is that a power that’s somehow magically not reserved to London, because only when the SNP have failed in something is it London’s fault?
I mean like any meaningful power, you unionists are shit scared to allow a referendum, despite constantly telling u show poor , stupid , etc we are and unable to look after ourselves. The buck stops in London , they are in control.
Ummm...again, Malc, I have always said that an SNP majority next year should lead to another referendum.
Unfortunately, what you and others here are demonstrating is that Scotsnats literally have passed reason. You don’t care what facts are, you just twist or invent them to suit your agenda. You are reminding me, right now, very much of Donald Trump.
My suspicion is that as a result Scotland will do a Brexit-style departure from the UK, on the back of a number of these twisted facts becoming impossible promises, and at the end when Nats are celebrating ‘freedom’ everyone else will be wondering if the marginal gain in independence was worth the cost.
I'm surprised you use Trump as an example of twisting facts when a more glaring and odious example is so much closer to home.
But it’s bad form to be constantly talking about the excesses of one’s Johnson.
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
Yes, it’s very embarrassing for UNICEF to help children in London.
It is disgraceful that we can’t feed children properly, but it isn’t just a unionist problem.
Unionists control it from London , despite the best efforts of Scottish Government using some of their meagre pocket money to alleviate poverty , they have no chance of overcoming London policies. You just cannot get your head round or understand what "Powers Reserved to London" means do you.
You mean, like a second referendum?
Or is that a power that’s somehow magically not reserved to London, because only when the SNP have failed in something is it London’s fault?
I mean like any meaningful power, you unionists are shit scared to allow a referendum, despite constantly telling u show poor , stupid , etc we are and unable to look after ourselves. The buck stops in London , they are in control.
Ummm...again, Malc, I have always said that an SNP majority next year should lead to another referendum.
Unfortunately, what you and others here are demonstrating is that Scotsnats literally have passed reason. You don’t care what facts are, you just twist or invent them to suit your agenda. You are reminding me, right now, very much of Donald Trump.
My suspicion is that as a result Scotland will do a Brexit-style departure from the UK, on the back of a number of these twisted facts becoming impossible promises, and at the end when Nats are celebrating ‘freedom’ everyone else will be wondering if the marginal gain in independence was worth the cost.
I'm surprised you use Trump as an example of twisting facts when a more glaring and odious example is so much closer to home.
Roger, I think you've jumped the shark if you think there is someone more odious than Trump.
That is not evidence, it is anecdotal bullsh8t. It also does not refute Young's claim.
Um, no, A says that x is evidence that x. The problem is innumerate twits who misunderstand and then over-generalise some special rules which apply to medical interventions only, and think that Toby Young's utterances are exempt from those rules anyway.
Young's data is compiled from the NHS's own numbers and nobody has come up with a set of numbers to refute it.
Just shrill anecdotal alarmism
Show us the numbers.
This the tweet, note the date he's using to make the comparison.
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
Yes, it’s very embarrassing for UNICEF to help children in London.
It is disgraceful that we can’t feed children properly, but it isn’t just a unionist problem.
Unionists control it from London , despite the best efforts of Scottish Government using some of their meagre pocket money to alleviate poverty , they have no chance of overcoming London policies. You just cannot get your head round or understand what "Powers Reserved to London" means do you.
You mean, like a second referendum?
Or is that a power that’s somehow magically not reserved to London, because only when the SNP have failed in something is it London’s fault?
I mean like any meaningful power, you unionists are shit scared to allow a referendum, despite constantly telling u show poor , stupid , etc we are and unable to look after ourselves. The buck stops in London , they are in control.
Ummm...again, Malc, I have always said that an SNP majority next year should lead to another referendum.
Unfortunately, what you and others here are demonstrating is that Scotsnats literally have passed reason. You don’t care what facts are, you just twist or invent them to suit your agenda. You are reminding me, right now, very much of Donald Trump.
My suspicion is that as a result Scotland will do a Brexit-style departure from the UK, on the back of a number of these twisted facts becoming impossible promises, and at the end when Nats are celebrating ‘freedom’ everyone else will be wondering if the marginal gain in independence was worth the cost.
I'm surprised you use Trump as an example of twisting facts when a more glaring and odious example is so much closer to home.
Roger, I think you've jumped the shark if you think there is someone more odious than Trump.
Well, there are several, in fact. But Kim Jong Un, Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin are fortunately not significantly closer to my home.
On By-specimen-date we are still below the October peak of 1,685.
They have only had 9 months to get this shit right....its is particular piss poor, given it has already been stated that over Christmas the daily reporting numbers will be highly variable.
It's good that someone with Gavin Esler's views is asking questions about the Nightingale Hospitals instead of just saying "they don't have the staff" as if that someone explains why millions were spent setting them up if there might not have been enough people to staff them.
The Nightingales song will never be sung, it seems. Regardless of how bad things get they will not be a part of the response. They gave public morale a boost back then but that looks to be about the size of it. Another pricey 'PR over Practicality' initiative? https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1343685284609871873
The Deal should now pass comfortably then whatever Labour do given the Tory majority of 80, Labour support simply ensures it passes with a landslide Commons vote.
That is not evidence, it is anecdotal bullsh8t. It also does not refute Young's claim.
Um, no, A says that x is evidence that x. The problem is innumerate twits who misunderstand and then over-generalise some special rules which apply to medical interventions only, and think that Toby Young's utterances are exempt from those rules anyway.
Young's data is compiled from the NHS's own numbers and nobody has come up with a set of numbers to refute it.
Just shrill anecdotal alarmism
Show us the numbers.
This the tweet, note the date he's using to make the comparison.
(also doesn't take into account that not every Covid-19 patient is in ICU at the moment, there's HDUs as well.)
Cases are increasing by about 1/4 to 1/3 every week. As ICU is proportional to that, it suggests they are just about hitting capacity now. There won't be enough beds in a couple of weeks time.
Edit on Toby's actual point. There are more beds available now, so the Trust directors may well be telling the truth that they are treating more patients even if occupancy is slightly lower.
Further point again, not all ICU is in A&E. I suspect most intensive COVID treatment isn't happening in A&E
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
Yes, it’s very embarrassing for UNICEF to help children in London.
It is disgraceful that we can’t feed children properly, but it isn’t just a unionist problem.
Unionists control it from London , despite the best efforts of Scottish Government using some of their meagre pocket money to alleviate poverty , they have no chance of overcoming London policies. You just cannot get your head round or understand what "Powers Reserved to London" means do you.
You mean, like a second referendum?
Or is that a power that’s somehow magically not reserved to London, because only when the SNP have failed in something is it London’s fault?
I mean like any meaningful power, you unionists are shit scared to allow a referendum, despite constantly telling u show poor , stupid , etc we are and unable to look after ourselves. The buck stops in London , they are in control.
Ummm...again, Malc, I have always said that an SNP majority next year should lead to another referendum.
Unfortunately, what you and others here are demonstrating is that Scotsnats literally have passed reason. You don’t care what facts are, you just twist or invent them to suit your agenda. You are reminding me, right now, very much of Donald Trump.
My suspicion is that as a result Scotland will do a Brexit-style departure from the UK, on the back of a number of these twisted facts becoming impossible promises, and at the end when Nats are celebrating ‘freedom’ everyone else will be wondering if the marginal gain in independence was worth the cost.
I'm surprised you use Trump as an example of twisting facts when a more glaring and odious example is so much closer to home.
Roger, I think you've jumped the shark if you think there is someone more odious than Trump.
Well, there are several, in fact. But Kim Jong Un, Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin are fortunately not significantly closer to my home.
Guessing you're not a geography teacher in your spare time?
Moscow is significantly closed to your home than Washington DC.
The Deal should now pass comfortably then whatever Labour do given the Tory majority of 80, Labour support simply ensures it passes with a landslide Commons vote.
Good and probably sensible to announce them on the same day.
If AZN is approved then combined with the new variant there's really no logical reason not to squish this in January and February with a vaccine rollout, staying at home through the torrid winter months then getting back to normal in the Spring.
Better than dragging out Tiers through the Spring and Summer as everything has collapsed slowing the vaccine rollout.
The Deal should now pass comfortably then whatever Labour do given the Tory majority of 80, Labour support simply ensures it passes with a landslide Commons vote.
The Deal should now pass comfortably then whatever Labour do given the Tory majority of 80, Labour support simply ensures it passes with a landslide Commons vote.
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
Yes, it’s very embarrassing for UNICEF to help children in London.
It is disgraceful that we can’t feed children properly, but it isn’t just a unionist problem.
Unionists control it from London , despite the best efforts of Scottish Government using some of their meagre pocket money to alleviate poverty , they have no chance of overcoming London policies. You just cannot get your head round or understand what "Powers Reserved to London" means do you.
You mean, like a second referendum?
Or is that a power that’s somehow magically not reserved to London, because only when the SNP have failed in something is it London’s fault?
I mean like any meaningful power, you unionists are shit scared to allow a referendum, despite constantly telling u show poor , stupid , etc we are and unable to look after ourselves. The buck stops in London , they are in control.
Ummm...again, Malc, I have always said that an SNP majority next year should lead to another referendum.
Unfortunately, what you and others here are demonstrating is that Scotsnats literally have passed reason. You don’t care what facts are, you just twist or invent them to suit your agenda. You are reminding me, right now, very much of Donald Trump.
My suspicion is that as a result Scotland will do a Brexit-style departure from the UK, on the back of a number of these twisted facts becoming impossible promises, and at the end when Nats are celebrating ‘freedom’ everyone else will be wondering if the marginal gain in independence was worth the cost.
I'm surprised you use Trump as an example of twisting facts when a more glaring and odious example is so much closer to home.
Roger, I think you've jumped the shark if you think there is someone more odious than Trump.
Trump is the most admired man in America apparently, edging out Obama.
Embarrassing more like, we now need charity from Ireland, how the tables have turned.
It’s not charity. They have decided to extend a benefit they provide to RoI citizens in RoI to dual citizens in NI. They then decided (for simplicity or just to irritate the DUP) to extend it to U.K.-only citizens in NI
Sticking in unionists craws though, first UNICEF helping out with starving children , now the Irish who they are always slagging off as poor country hicks providing charity in NI.
Yes, it’s very embarrassing for UNICEF to help children in London.
It is disgraceful that we can’t feed children properly, but it isn’t just a unionist problem.
Unionists control it from London , despite the best efforts of Scottish Government using some of their meagre pocket money to alleviate poverty , they have no chance of overcoming London policies. You just cannot get your head round or understand what "Powers Reserved to London" means do you.
You mean, like a second referendum?
Or is that a power that’s somehow magically not reserved to London, because only when the SNP have failed in something is it London’s fault?
I mean like any meaningful power, you unionists are shit scared to allow a referendum, despite constantly telling u show poor , stupid , etc we are and unable to look after ourselves. The buck stops in London , they are in control.
Ummm...again, Malc, I have always said that an SNP majority next year should lead to another referendum.
Unfortunately, what you and others here are demonstrating is that Scotsnats literally have passed reason. You don’t care what facts are, you just twist or invent them to suit your agenda. You are reminding me, right now, very much of Donald Trump.
My suspicion is that as a result Scotland will do a Brexit-style departure from the UK, on the back of a number of these twisted facts becoming impossible promises, and at the end when Nats are celebrating ‘freedom’ everyone else will be wondering if the marginal gain in independence was worth the cost.
I'm surprised you use Trump as an example of twisting facts when a more glaring and odious example is so much closer to home.
Roger, I think you've jumped the shark if you think there is someone more odious than Trump.
Trump is the most admired man in America apparently, edging out Obama.
So everyone will blame the politicians for the Covid response. I blame the NHS and the mandarins in large part.
Yep, the NHS is at fault. They had months to prep for this, they cant get away (hopefully) with throwing care home residents back out of hospital, they have had money thrown at them. Most worrying of all, they appear to be spending a tremendous amount of time knocking on to the media about how much of a disaster its all going to be. It appears to be becoming a God complex. I just heard an interview, and it was set piece not a phone in, where a nurse was amneting the current situation. Well tough, you signed up. We get its tough but there is no magic wand. The calls for action, the 'do something' before additional measures have been allowed to take effect, which takes weeks, seem to be grasping at straws.
Until the sainted, centre of the universe status given to the NHS is removed then they are unchallenged. The scandal of being people being sent back to care homes, who the fuck is being dragged up for scrutiny there? Thats an operational and policy decision by the NHS.
At the beginning of last week I spoke with someone working in NHS pperations in an area of Northern Ireland that has had a notably hard time. How was it? Aparently not as bad as its being made out. Its tough but they pointed out the service comes under pressure like this every few years in winter. ICU beds occasionally go into near or over capacity. Of course some areas are suffering worse than others but do we really know, we hear anout every hospital getting full but its also patchy in terms of the degree of pressure.
What really takes the biscuit though is in Scotland, where NHS back office staff, ie that are not in anyway working in clincal settings, have apprently been bumping the queue registering themselves for getting the vaccine. Really? Who is allowing this to happen? Is it hapenning elsewhere? Possibly. There's your sainted heroes for you.
Its fine being a salaried, pensioned civil servant, it impacts on your outlook. Unfortunately most of the population isnt and it is becoming incresingly difficult for the public to really get the picture if all we hear is cry wolf, we do not know how real it is anymore, or not. We have lost any proportion in what the message is, the media eat it up and regurgitate it. Concern is not terror, but there are days when you feel that is exactly what is bering spread by people who should know better.
ICU occupancy rates are below average levels in most regions, according to Toby Young. I haven't seen anybody contradict that assertion.
The spokesman for the Welsh Health Department yesterday said that they have 241 ICU beds in total and occupancy is normally around 150. They were at 210 as of yesterday and expected to run out before the end of the week.
Normal for the summer or normal for this time of year?
If you look at Young's graphic it would be very unusual to have an ICU occupancy below 70% or even 80% at this time of year.
Comments
On the 23rd they had 11,380 new Covid cases
That's the equivalent of 74,142 cases in the UK.
As for Tobes, he's surpassed himself. Tweeting photos of "empty hospitals" to further his case that there is no problem, they turn out to be pictures from 2012. Of Guantanamo Bay.
In fact in recent years both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have followed a near Thatcherite economic agenda
Young's numbers are from the NHS's own data.
Just shrill anecdotal alarmism
There is a case, particularly at primary school, for giving all children the same school meal paid for by the govenrment. This would mean there’s no singling out of children whose parents are poorer over it, and ensure standards of nutrition are maintained for all children (I think many people would be unpleasantly surprised to learn just how many children eat only crisps and sweets at lunchtime, and that’s nothing to do with money). Unfortunately, that breaks down not so much over cost as over logistics (again, many people were I think shocked at the revelation of how few schools have kitchens).
But actually, breakfast clubs are even more important for poorer children, because otherwise it can be 18 hours between decent meals - far, far too long for a child - and much energy and learning is done in the morning.
Thatcherism works. Ireland discovered that and haven't looked back.
https://tinyurl.com/ydhappdh
The DM seems to have found some outraged (but anonymous) nurses at RAH, Paisley.
if it were really true, I would have expected the story to have gathered some momentum since 22 December.
So, my guess is it is bollox.
*Until she has me arrested for stalking, probably.
Young is citing ten day old stats, I'm not sure if you've been paying attention to the news things have accelerated since then. If he used yesterday's figures when available he might bang a different tune.
Also, Young might not realise that not all Covid-19 patients are being treated in ICU, and given the way it progresses ICU is a lagging indicator, especially ten day old stats.
I'm sure once the Christmas hall pass figures are taken into account then Young will stop citing these stats the way he used to pimp the Sweden stats.
Think I'll take a break this afternoon,
At the moment the Government website has 2115 patients admitted on 21 December (nothinbg later). The worst peak in the spring was something like 2.5K (averaging out a bit).
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
My uncle has a lot of our family papers on the Famine in Connaught and I wrote a dissertation on it
https://twitter.com/Adamprice/status/1343912779938455552?s=20
The Spectator which I am sure is the word of God to you shows for 20 December everywhere pretty much average, but SE above average and London way above average
https://data.spectator.co.uk/city/nhs
https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/1343625778387365889?s=19
If you look at Young's graphic it would be very unusual to have an ICU occupancy below 70% or even 80% at this time of year.
See what they did there?
So to come back to your original point, regardless of powers or geographical location, it’s the unionists’ fault because they are unionists?
Nearly 10 day old figures.
https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1343913555482042370
(also doesn't take into account that not every Covid-19 patient is in ICU at the moment, there's HDUs as well.)
I look forward to you coming back then and apologising.
Yeah, right.....
I seriously hope he's wrong and hope you can prove him wrong. Because if he isn;t, something is wrong.
Edit. See what I did there? Its called maths.
https://twitter.com/davidsirota/status/1343809434020052993
A Brexit arrangement "overwhelmingly passed by this House...." as Boris will no doubt often remind us.
TSE posted it.
As I say, I want Young to be wrong. I want to know the enormous sacrifices the ordinary people of Britain are making, and will be making for decades to come, are being made in a good cause.
*coincidentally my age next year...
--AS
No doubt he will be reiterating that he Got Brexit Done - despite the claim in February that was now forbidden to say since we got it done in January.
Surprisingly, among non-physician and non-nurse healthcare workers at the hospital, the opposite problem exists - getting some of them to agree to get the vaccine.
France is Cheese
Denmark is Bacon
Wow - that's fast and efficient. I'm in the 75-80 cohort. I think the over 80s are all jabbed here.
Edit on Toby's actual point. There are more beds available now, so the Trust directors may well be telling the truth that they are treating more patients even if occupancy is slightly lower.
(Besides, Trump has Scottish heritage.)
On By-specimen-date we are still below the October peak of 1,685.
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1343685284609871873
What a contrast to the WA votes.
https://twitter.com/EleniCourea/status/1343929017062330368?s=20
Moscow is significantly closed to your home than Washington DC.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9095269/England-needs-national-lockdown-prevent-catastrophe-January-February-SAGE-warns.html
Politics eh. Complex and dirty game. Glad I only have to observe rather than play.
If AZN is approved then combined with the new variant there's really no logical reason not to squish this in January and February with a vaccine rollout, staying at home through the torrid winter months then getting back to normal in the Spring.
Better than dragging out Tiers through the Spring and Summer as everything has collapsed slowing the vaccine rollout.
Labour have provided the bulk of the ERG's votes in the lobbies since 2019 began.
And oppositions always find it difficult when they think the government is acting in the national interest.
I was interested to see that Baroness-to-be Davidson has been dropped from the menu.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/531906-trump-ends-obamas-12-year-run-as-most-admired-man-gallup