The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
Even more so now that the GSK/Sanofi vaccine has failed to launch. The EU has got huge dependence on CureVac coming up with a working vaccine.
I have to say the whole EU vaccine scheme looks to me like one of those "how not to do something" examples that opponents of the EU will use in the future. Between Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and J&J the UK is probably second best placed in the world wrt vaccines after Japan.
Har Har Har , what utter jingoistic bollox.
Max is being absolutely factual. Indeed I'm genuinely curious why he put us behind Japan?
I am genuinely curious, if we end up at 35% or whatever the number is, is that going to be acceptable to the fishermen who I assume are waiting to have 100% back?
Watched the new Grand Tour yesterday, poor I thought.
That show needs taking out the back and shooting.
They need to cancel it, I always have thought the Grand Tour wasn't great to be honest.
Even the last few series of Top Gear (before they left the BBC) had gone downhill to be honest.
Totally agree. We all know its scripted comedy japes, but it had become all too predictable.
However, despite the Grand Tour is poor on the whole, did still manage to retain the odd really good episode (or segment). But its done for now.
I notice they have this YouTube DriveTribe / FoodTribe thing. That seems more return to old old school Top Gear, as in more proper car reviews, mixed with some sillyness.
The Grand Tour is very much at the twilight stage. The regular series was axed after the last one and it's just occasional specials now so I think it'll peter out soon.
It did its job tho: which was to get millions of worldwide fans of Clarkson and Top Gear to sign up to Amazon prime TV
Philip_Thompson said: » show previous quotes The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade. How many doses have we got ahead of EU?
Why couldnt we have done both?
They have ordered 200m doses BTW so bound to be cheaper
We have an order for 40m due for delivery by March. Who the hell cares if we're paying a couple of extra dollars per dose?
We have an order that was supposed to deliver 10m doses by 31/12/20 how many have we got? What is the likely impact on the timescale for the rest of the order? Its not a couple extra per dose either
EU has an order to get 200m by April. Same issues apply presumably
You're delusional if you think that the EU will get its 200m before we get our 40m.
Had we pooled our 40m (which had already from memory been purchased before the EU scheme was up and running) then we would have to pool that with the EU scheme - and we'd have ended up with 1/6th of the doses as a result (40/240).
We are better off with 100% of what we've ordered than 1/6th of the combined total.
We wont get 10m by year end or 40m by March
We will not be front of the queue a 300m client is more important than a 40m one
I believe it is you that is delusional We have massively overpaid and received only about 10% of the doses we were supposed to receive by next week
Philip_Thompson said: » show previous quotes The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade. How many doses have we got ahead of EU?
Why couldnt we have done both?
They have ordered 200m doses BTW so bound to be cheaper
We have an order for 40m due for delivery by March. Who the hell cares if we're paying a couple of extra dollars per dose?
We have an order that was supposed to deliver 10m doses by 31/12/20 how many have we got? What is the likely impact on the timescale for the rest of the order? Its not a couple extra per dose either
EU has an order to get 200m by April. Same issues apply presumably
The EU has 100m for H12021 and then another 100m undated which is expected to be late in 2021. The US is having the same problem with Pfizer essentially telling them that the only way for faster deliveries is for the US government to direct input materials to the US market from overseas which would lead to other countries such as Japan losing out and obviously the US is unwilling to do that.
The EU Contracted with Pfizer for 200m on 11/11/20 and a further 100m option
The option has no date at all. The Spiegel article laid it out pretty well. The EU scheme was too slow and too concerned with price. The UK, US and Japan have all paid more per dose, no doubt, part of that is getting doses much faster.
Some of the private research available on this is really good too as so much of next year's economic recovery is dependent on vaccine rollout.
I was talking this morning to a chum whose son is high up in public health and sits in the Covid COBRA meetings.
Word from him was that this new mutation is bastard contagious....
That’s why the Times quote about Supercovid’s extra infectiousness leapt out at me. They didn’t cite the 0.4 lower range of R, but the higher one. 0.93. The article (and a similar one on Sky News) was clearly implying that scientists, even at this early stage, are tending to pessimism.
Brrrrr
Discussion here yesterday suggested it may just hang around in the body for longer, which wouldn't be so bad. But other sources (for example the good Dr John Campbell's video on it - his videoblogs are excellent, if you havent caught them) suggest it has other advantages including being better able to fight off the immune system's defences, which isn't so good.
Another suggestion in The Times is that Supercovid may still respond to vaccines, but be more resistant. In other words Pfizer’s 95% may go down to 60% or whatever.
That's an irresponsible suggestion because we don't know that there is any effect on the vaccine yet. Speculation here strikes me as counterproductive.
Then tell that to the Times science writer. I am merely conveying what he says
‘It’s unlikely that the vaccines won’t work but it is possible that they won’t work quite so well‘
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
Even more so now that the GSK/Sanofi vaccine has failed to launch. The EU has got huge dependence on CureVac coming up with a working vaccine.
I have to say the whole EU vaccine scheme looks to me like one of those "how not to do something" examples that opponents of the EU will use in the future. Between Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and J&J the UK is probably second best placed in the world wrt vaccines after Japan.
Har Har Har , what utter jingoistic bollox.
Max is being absolutely factual. Indeed I'm genuinely curious why he put us behind Japan?
There's nothing jingoistic in that.
Japan put their money behind Pfizer and Moderna, their portfolio is really good.
Philip_Thompson said: » show previous quotes The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade. How many doses have we got ahead of EU?
Why couldnt we have done both?
They have ordered 200m doses BTW so bound to be cheaper
We have an order for 40m due for delivery by March. Who the hell cares if we're paying a couple of extra dollars per dose?
We have an order that was supposed to deliver 10m doses by 31/12/20 how many have we got? What is the likely impact on the timescale for the rest of the order? Its not a couple extra per dose either
EU has an order to get 200m by April. Same issues apply presumably
You're delusional if you think that the EU will get its 200m before we get our 40m.
Had we pooled our 40m (which had already from memory been purchased before the EU scheme was up and running) then we would have to pool that with the EU scheme - and we'd have ended up with 1/6th of the doses as a result (40/240).
We are better off with 100% of what we've ordered than 1/6th of the combined total.
We wont get 10m by year end or 40m by March
We will not be front of the queue a 300m client is more important than a 40m one
I believe it is you that is delusional We have massively overpaid and received only about 10% of the doses we were supposed to receive by next week
The reason we didn't get 10m is because they had to chuck away millions of doses...
Supply-Chain Obstacles Led to Last Month’s Cut to Pfizer’s Covid-19 Vaccine-Rollout Target Pharma giant found raw materials in early production didn’t meet its standards
Philip_Thompson said: » show previous quotes The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade. How many doses have we got ahead of EU?
Why couldnt we have done both?
They have ordered 200m doses BTW so bound to be cheaper
We have an order for 40m due for delivery by March. Who the hell cares if we're paying a couple of extra dollars per dose?
We have an order that was supposed to deliver 10m doses by 31/12/20 how many have we got? What is the likely impact on the timescale for the rest of the order? Its not a couple extra per dose either
EU has an order to get 200m by April. Same issues apply presumably
You're delusional if you think that the EU will get its 200m before we get our 40m.
Had we pooled our 40m (which had already from memory been purchased before the EU scheme was up and running) then we would have to pool that with the EU scheme - and we'd have ended up with 1/6th of the doses as a result (40/240).
We are better off with 100% of what we've ordered than 1/6th of the combined total.
We wont get 10m by year end or 40m by March
We will not be front of the queue a 300m client is more important than a 40m one
I believe it is you that is delusional We have massively overpaid and received only about 10% of the doses we were supposed to receive by next week
You realise that all of these things are contracted, right? It's not some kind of free for all.
I see we are back to unsubstantiated hysteria on here.
I've been taking a break from PB for this reason – I see I was right to do so.
As lovely as this site is as a meeting place, it's primary purpose is about betting on outcomes. It is about using information to get ahead of the crowd. Sometimes it is gossip, sometimes it is well-sourced insights, sometimes smart thinking. Good luck in closing down any of those elements.
Even when we don't manage to get ahead of the crowd, we're almost invariably ahead of the PM, which is a pretty good record...
He said people in store at 3am but never really rammed - no shortages.
He did note though couples were going round with a full trolley EACH.
Thats one way to empty shelves.....
Although, wheeling two trollies round is not unusual for the big Christmas shop. We've certainly done it in previous years.
When we were having a huge family gathering....
Whenever I feel annoyed at someone apparently stockpiling in the supermarket, I have to remind myself that they might well be shopping for themselves and their elderly/vulnerable neighbours
Entirely true in my case. I do the shopping for both my own family and my elderly mother. If my mum orders toilet roll, it means we can't have any due to the embarrassment factor of having two packs of bog roll in one's trolley.
The Tier system was an attempt to apply risk segmentation to lockdown by geography.
Given the vaccine programme is now underway, are there any good reasons why instead we cannot flip to risk segmentation by age group?
If you are over [60], then enforced stay at home for you and everyone in your household until you’re vaxxed. If you really want to be serious about it based on super covid, stay at home means stay at home and ask the army to deliver food packages door to door, as was done in several Asian countries earlier in the year.
It’s a short period of time and we can fairly clearly designate an end date to each household.
Meanwhile kids can still go to school and small businesses can try and trade their way out of bankruptcy. 3 months more of blunt one size fits all lockdown is more than the working age and their children should have to bear.
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
Even more so now that the GSK/Sanofi vaccine has failed to launch. The EU has got huge dependence on CureVac coming up with a working vaccine.
I have to say the whole EU vaccine scheme looks to me like one of those "how not to do something" examples that opponents of the EU will use in the future. Between Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and J&J the UK is probably second best placed in the world wrt vaccines after Japan.
Har Har Har , what utter jingoistic bollox.
Max is being absolutely factual. Indeed I'm genuinely curious why he put us behind Japan?
There's nothing jingoistic in that.
Japan put their money behind Pfizer and Moderna, their portfolio is really good.
Wonder if it'll be the first nation in the world to have zero exception vaccine dependant passport entry.
The Presidential is over but I see some people still have a hard time understanding the broader appeal of the GOP in the US and prefer to resort to shooting the messenger or ad hominem whenever (a far smaller number of) people point this out.
One corker FPT was that the Democrats had done well because they won the House, forgetting that they lost seats in what was supposed to be a very big year for them - and they now have a wafer-thin majority of 9.
Don't listen to these people if you're placing bets.
Philip_Thompson said: » show previous quotes The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade. How many doses have we got ahead of EU?
Why couldnt we have done both?
They have ordered 200m doses BTW so bound to be cheaper
We have an order for 40m due for delivery by March. Who the hell cares if we're paying a couple of extra dollars per dose?
We have an order that was supposed to deliver 10m doses by 31/12/20 how many have we got? What is the likely impact on the timescale for the rest of the order? Its not a couple extra per dose either
EU has an order to get 200m by April. Same issues apply presumably
You're delusional if you think that the EU will get its 200m before we get our 40m.
Had we pooled our 40m (which had already from memory been purchased before the EU scheme was up and running) then we would have to pool that with the EU scheme - and we'd have ended up with 1/6th of the doses as a result (40/240).
We are better off with 100% of what we've ordered than 1/6th of the combined total.
We wont get 10m by year end or 40m by March
We will not be front of the queue a 300m client is more important than a 40m one
I believe it is you that is delusional We have massively overpaid and received only about 10% of the doses we were supposed to receive by next week
You realise that all of these things are contracted, right? It's not some kind of free for all.
If only we had Jezza in power, where he was just going to ignore IP laws and make knock-off versions of drugs.
Watched the new Grand Tour yesterday, poor I thought.
That show needs taking out the back and shooting.
They need to cancel it, I always have thought the Grand Tour wasn't great to be honest.
Even the last few series of Top Gear (before they left the BBC) had gone downhill to be honest.
I have never seen a full episode of either (only bits on flights) but I think I can confidently assert that the car YouTube scene has rendered both pointless.
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
Even more so now that the GSK/Sanofi vaccine has failed to launch. The EU has got huge dependence on CureVac coming up with a working vaccine.
I have to say the whole EU vaccine scheme looks to me like one of those "how not to do something" examples that opponents of the EU will use in the future. Between Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and J&J the UK is probably second best placed in the world wrt vaccines after Japan.
Har Har Har , what utter jingoistic bollox.
Max is being absolutely factual. Indeed I'm genuinely curious why he put us behind Japan?
There's nothing jingoistic in that.
Japan put their money behind Pfizer and Moderna, their portfolio is really good.
Wonder if it'll be the first nation in the world to have zero exception vaccine dependant passport entry.
Australia and NZ would be my bet. Our lax attitude to this is extremely disheartening. The government really are clueless.
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
Even more so now that the GSK/Sanofi vaccine has failed to launch. The EU has got huge dependence on CureVac coming up with a working vaccine.
I have to say the whole EU vaccine scheme looks to me like one of those "how not to do something" examples that opponents of the EU will use in the future. Between Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and J&J the UK is probably second best placed in the world wrt vaccines after Japan.
Har Har Har , what utter jingoistic bollox.
Max is being absolutely factual. Indeed I'm genuinely curious why he put us behind Japan?
There's nothing jingoistic in that.
He is talking out his rear end, you unionists are fixated that UK is great and better than everybody else whilst the mountains of evidence show different.
On previous thread interestingly if the GOP do win the Georgia runoffs and hold the Senate then Biden will be the first incoming President since before FDR to enter the White House without their party in control of both chambers of Congress.
The others since World War 2, Nixon, Reagan and Bush Snr were all Republicans
You've posted this at least six times?
I haven't actually, certainly not the latter part and that does not make the message any less important
Brexit is a big mistake for the UK. Things don't stop being a mistake because you plough on with them regardless. At some point we will have to try to undo some of the damage. We can start with a basic, crappy deal with the EU and work from there.
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
Even more so now that the GSK/Sanofi vaccine has failed to launch. The EU has got huge dependence on CureVac coming up with a working vaccine.
I have to say the whole EU vaccine scheme looks to me like one of those "how not to do something" examples that opponents of the EU will use in the future. Between Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and J&J the UK is probably second best placed in the world wrt vaccines after Japan.
Har Har Har , what utter jingoistic bollox.
Max is being absolutely factual. Indeed I'm genuinely curious why he put us behind Japan?
There's nothing jingoistic in that.
Japan put their money behind Pfizer and Moderna, their portfolio is really good.
Indeed it is but I'm assuming they're locked out of Moderna like the rest of the non-US world until the Spring still?
Pfizer seems to be the golden goose that the UK, Japan and USA were wise to back early. Remarkable it was invented by a German company but their order only went in on Remembrance Day so they're struggling for rollout compared to the rest of us.
A Sinn Fein politician wants and looks forward to a united Ireland by peaceful means, acknowledges the troubles but emphasises those days are in the past. It seems uncontroversial and certainly unsurprising.
Either her Gaelic isn't very good, or Google Translate isn't!
Both are probably true. Irish is taught in schools but no-one speaks it, so there is not much of a corpus for Google Translate to learn from. Ireland is no Israel, where Hebrew was successfully resurrected.
Ireland (most of it anyway) is independent but it's language doesn't appear to be doing so well. There's little prospect of Welsh independence but the language seems to be coming back. Scots Gaelic is on it's last legs, apparently.
Why any parent would want to impede their child's education in this way escapes me completely.
Surely the language teaching lobby has always told us that learning one foreign language helps with others. If true (which tbh I doubt) then French, German and Spanish results should be on the up at those schools.
There's some research I think which confirms that. I believe teaching of foreign languages in British schools is declining generally, though. Or is it just European languages?
We don't even teach English in our schools. I went to a grammar school in the 1970s and was never taught English grammar. And if you don't know how your own language works, how on earth are you going to be able to learn other ones?
I was 11 when I went to America in 1975, and that was the first place that I got taught English grammar. It was taught in a very rigid manner, but very useful later on.
English and maths were well taught in Georgia, the rest of the subjects much less so.
I went to school in DC for two years and learned almost nothing except how to be an expert shot with a pistol on the school's shooting range.
British kids learn almost no English grammar. I have had plenty of native English speaking A level students who can't name the seventeen English verbs that can't take the present continuous tense. I have also met foreign students of English (usually Dutch or German) who can.
So if a British student has achieved some proficiency in one foreign language they will almost certainly do better at a second just because they have finally had to learn some grammar.
Really wish I was a linguist. Rather be a linguist than most other things I wish I was. I've heard that when learning a new language there comes a kind of "dam breaking" moment when you make a leap and you reach the next step. Two or three of those and you arrive at competency. Then it's about fine-tuning, playing with it, getting the quirky tics & tacs, and lo you're fluent. I've never managed the first quantum move as an adult. School French was ok but beyond that, no. I had total immersion German lessons on the company for 12 weeks when I lived in Vienna and yet did not progress much beyond "das ist ein hund". I nailed that - totally - but then seemed to get stuck. On a brighter note, I'm doing Spiral soup to nuts atm and I think it's doing wonders for my French. Can follow bits of it without looking at the subtitles.
[..]
I don't think it's like this. (I have learnt other languages to a reasonably high level). Fluency in languages comes from putting in the hard work and exposing yourself to listening, speaking, reading and writing. Of these, listening is the most important. You need to do lots of it.
About 5% of the population is a genius at languages; maybe 10% just don't have the way of thinking. For the other 85%, it's a case of application and exposure and you will get to a decent standard.
Yes, I didn't mean to imply it wasn't more about exposure and putting in the effort as opposed to innate talent. I'm sure it is. Most things are. But you do get those quite sudden jumps forward, don't you? It's not linear. Again, like most things. For a while, as you try to learn something, you're getting better but you don't realize it. Then, boom, you do. And onto the next level. Key is to not give up before that first jump.
I am genuinely curious, if we end up at 35% or whatever the number is, is that going to be acceptable to the fishermen who I assume are waiting to have 100% back?
We don't have enough fishermen to deal with 100% iirc.
I am genuinely curious, if we end up at 35% or whatever the number is, is that going to be acceptable to the fishermen who I assume are waiting to have 100% back?
I think iti is further complicated by the French and other EU fleets taking fish we wouldn't seek to catch anyway, so we can afford a degree of it being less than 100%.
Anyway, Macron is going the right way about their number being 0%. Twat.
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
And disappointingly the Sanofi/GSK effort has been setback by at least six months.
Six months may as well become never, at this rate surely Sanofi need to be instructed to licence manufacturing for Moderna, AZ or J&J. They have substantial manufacturing capacity and waiting for an indefinite period of time to reformulate their vaccine and then put it through another set of PII/III trials seems like a huge waste of resources.
For now there is no sign of either Pfizer or Moderna licensing any of their competitors to produce their vaccines. Moderna did say something earlier this year about not enforcing patents on the vaccine, but to produce it elsewhere would in any event require cooperation on the manufacturing secrets.
I was talking this morning to a chum whose son is high up in public health and sits in the Covid COBRA meetings.
Word from him was that this new mutation is bastard contagious....
That’s why the Times quote about Supercovid’s extra infectiousness leapt out at me. They didn’t cite the 0.4 lower range of R, but the higher one. 0.93. The article (and a similar one on Sky News) was clearly implying that scientists, even at this early stage, are tending to pessimism.
Brrrrr
Discussion here yesterday suggested it may just hang around in the body for longer, which wouldn't be so bad. But other sources (for example the good Dr John Campbell's video on it - his videoblogs are excellent, if you havent caught them) suggest it has other advantages including being better able to fight off the immune system's defences, which isn't so good.
Another suggestion in The Times is that Supercovid may still respond to vaccines, but be more resistant. In other words Pfizer’s 95% may go down to 60% or whatever.
That's an irresponsible suggestion because we don't know that there is any effect on the vaccine yet. Speculation here strikes me as counterproductive.
Then tell that to the Times science writer. I am merely conveying what he says
‘It’s unlikely that the vaccines won’t work but it is possible that they won’t work quite so well‘
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
Even more so now that the GSK/Sanofi vaccine has failed to launch. The EU has got huge dependence on CureVac coming up with a working vaccine.
I have to say the whole EU vaccine scheme looks to me like one of those "how not to do something" examples that opponents of the EU will use in the future. Between Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and J&J the UK is probably second best placed in the world wrt vaccines after Japan.
Har Har Har , what utter jingoistic bollox.
Max is being absolutely factual. Indeed I'm genuinely curious why he put us behind Japan?
There's nothing jingoistic in that.
Japan put their money behind Pfizer and Moderna, their portfolio is really good.
Indeed it is but I'm assuming they're locked out of Moderna like the rest of the non-US world until the Spring still?
Pfizer seems to be the golden goose that the UK, Japan and USA were wise to back early. Remarkable it was invented by a German company but their order only went in on Remembrance Day so they're struggling for rollout compared to the rest of us.
Yeah but their Pfizer order is massive. Obviously there is a lot of luck involved because had mRNA vaccines had serious issues they'd be completey fucked. One of the reasons our overall portfolio is so strong is that the taskforce went for a wide and deep strategy with multiple vectors and mechanisms. It's genuinely the only credit I can give the government in this whole mess.
Oh god not the ghastly Donald Trump again. Cancel cancel cancel. I've posted a few times of my recurring vision that he will leave the White House under physical compulsion in a horizontal position. We'll soon find out. Whatever, he WILL have to leave, and once he does I hope to stop having any recurring visions involving him at all. They are not welcome.
Whether Trump leaves voluntarily or via Secret Service escort, he will be out by 1159 EST on 20 January, which has been the case since 270 was called for Biden many, many weeks ago.
The rest is just ludicrous fluff – PBers luxuriating in pathetic fantasies.
I want this to continue and to go completely over the top barking, which it has signs of doing now with Sidney Powell and Michael Flynn getting involved more. I want to see Trump taken out in a straight jacket ranting.
Why? Well once we get to the point of the aliens fixing the election for Biden the lizard man it may eventually bring a significant number of the GOP to their senses and ensure this never happens again.
That is a potential benefit of him going so doolally that almost everyone has to acknowledge it.
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
And disappointingly the Sanofi/GSK effort has been setback by at least six months.
Six months may as well become never, at this rate surely Sanofi need to be instructed to licence manufacturing for Moderna, AZ or J&J. They have substantial manufacturing capacity and waiting for an indefinite period of time to reformulate their vaccine and then put it through another set of PII/III trials seems like a huge waste of resources.
For now there is no sign of either Pfizer or Moderna licensing any of their competitors to produce their vaccines. Moderna did say something earlier this year about not enforcing patents on the vaccine, but to produce it elsewhere would in any event require cooperation on the manufacturing secrets.
How long before we head Pfizer and Moderna have tweaked the instructions in their vaccine to counter SUPERCOVID? I was under the impression this work takes mere days. Are we expecting them to need to do a full new trial or just roll with the existing license?
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
Even more so now that the GSK/Sanofi vaccine has failed to launch. The EU has got huge dependence on CureVac coming up with a working vaccine.
I have to say the whole EU vaccine scheme looks to me like one of those "how not to do something" examples that opponents of the EU will use in the future. Between Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and J&J the UK is probably second best placed in the world wrt vaccines after Japan.
Har Har Har , what utter jingoistic bollox.
Max is being absolutely factual. Indeed I'm genuinely curious why he put us behind Japan?
There's nothing jingoistic in that.
He is talking out his rear end, you unionists are fixated that UK is great and better than everybody else whilst the mountains of evidence show different.
The UK as it stands has three time more vaccinated per capita than any other western country (I do not for a second believe any numbers coming out of China or Russia). That is literally better than everybody else as it stands on vaccines - but it is very early days yet of course.
We will see how rollout continues. America will probably overtake the UK because America has a 100% exclusivity deal with Moderna one of only two globally approved western vaccines - but the idea that the EU scheme is better because it put a deal in on Remembrance Day? Preposterous.
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
And disappointingly the Sanofi/GSK effort has been setback by at least six months.
Six months may as well become never, at this rate surely Sanofi need to be instructed to licence manufacturing for Moderna, AZ or J&J. They have substantial manufacturing capacity and waiting for an indefinite period of time to reformulate their vaccine and then put it through another set of PII/III trials seems like a huge waste of resources.
For now there is no sign of either Pfizer or Moderna licensing any of their competitors to produce their vaccines. Moderna did say something earlier this year about not enforcing patents on the vaccine, but to produce it elsewhere would in any event require cooperation on the manufacturing secrets.
I think Moderna have licenced manufacturing in Switzerland or maybe they purchased manufacturing facilities. But it's their first non-US manufacturing for the vaccine.
I am genuinely curious, if we end up at 35% or whatever the number is, is that going to be acceptable to the fishermen who I assume are waiting to have 100% back?
We don't have enough fishermen to deal with 100% iirc.
I don't think that has any relevance to some Brexiteers
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
Even more so now that the GSK/Sanofi vaccine has failed to launch. The EU has got huge dependence on CureVac coming up with a working vaccine.
I have to say the whole EU vaccine scheme looks to me like one of those "how not to do something" examples that opponents of the EU will use in the future. Between Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and J&J the UK is probably second best placed in the world wrt vaccines after Japan.
Har Har Har , what utter jingoistic bollox.
Max is being absolutely factual. Indeed I'm genuinely curious why he put us behind Japan?
There's nothing jingoistic in that.
Japan put their money behind Pfizer and Moderna, their portfolio is really good.
Great portfolio but since most Nazi countries denazified while Japan merely took its pseudoscientific wartime racial theories and made them cuter, nobody will actually be able to get the vaccine for months as they first have to test it on *Japanese* people.
I was talking this morning to a chum whose son is high up in public health and sits in the Covid COBRA meetings.
Word from him was that this new mutation is bastard contagious....
That’s why the Times quote about Supercovid’s extra infectiousness leapt out at me. They didn’t cite the 0.4 lower range of R, but the higher one. 0.93. The article (and a similar one on Sky News) was clearly implying that scientists, even at this early stage, are tending to pessimism.
Brrrrr
Discussion here yesterday suggested it may just hang around in the body for longer, which wouldn't be so bad. But other sources (for example the good Dr John Campbell's video on it - his videoblogs are excellent, if you havent caught them) suggest it has other advantages including being better able to fight off the immune system's defences, which isn't so good.
Another suggestion in The Times is that Supercovid may still respond to vaccines, but be more resistant. In other words Pfizer’s 95% may go down to 60% or whatever.
That's an irresponsible suggestion because we don't know that there is any effect on the vaccine yet. Speculation here strikes me as counterproductive.
Then tell that to the Times science writer. I am merely conveying what he says
‘It’s unlikely that the vaccines won’t work but it is possible that they won’t work quite so well‘
To me, this is the only truly crucial question about the variant. Will the vax still work? If that's a "yes" then we're just looking at more difficult last 6 months of this pandemic rather than the start of a new one.
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
Even more so now that the GSK/Sanofi vaccine has failed to launch. The EU has got huge dependence on CureVac coming up with a working vaccine.
I have to say the whole EU vaccine scheme looks to me like one of those "how not to do something" examples that opponents of the EU will use in the future. Between Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and J&J the UK is probably second best placed in the world wrt vaccines after Japan.
Har Har Har , what utter jingoistic bollox.
Max is being absolutely factual. Indeed I'm genuinely curious why he put us behind Japan?
There's nothing jingoistic in that.
Japan put their money behind Pfizer and Moderna, their portfolio is really good.
Indeed it is but I'm assuming they're locked out of Moderna like the rest of the non-US world until the Spring still?
Pfizer seems to be the golden goose that the UK, Japan and USA were wise to back early. Remarkable it was invented by a German company but their order only went in on Remembrance Day so they're struggling for rollout compared to the rest of us.
Yeah but their Pfizer order is massive. Obviously there is a lot of luck involved because had mRNA vaccines had serious issues they'd be completey fucked. One of the reasons our overall portfolio is so strong is that the taskforce went for a wide and deep strategy with multiple vectors and mechanisms. It's genuinely the only credit I can give the government in this whole mess.
What about testing? We test far more than any other European Country
As I said earlier, and others have also said, why can't testing centres be made into vaccination centres. Giving jabs is not hard - diabetics to it to themselves several times a day. You certainly don't need to be a qualified nurse. It is far less difficult than taking a swab.
I am genuinely curious, if we end up at 35% or whatever the number is, is that going to be acceptable to the fishermen who I assume are waiting to have 100% back?
We don't have enough fishermen to deal with 100% iirc.
I don't think that has any relevance to some Brexiteers
Of course it doesn't. If need be the fish can stay in the water reproducing while our fishing industry offers new jobs and builds up. There's no obligation to get the fish out of the water instantly.
A Sinn Fein politician wants and looks forward to a united Ireland by peaceful means, acknowledges the troubles but emphasises those days are in the past. It seems uncontroversial and certainly unsurprising.
Either her Gaelic isn't very good, or Google Translate isn't!
Both are probably true. Irish is taught in schools but no-one speaks it, so there is not much of a corpus for Google Translate to learn from. Ireland is no Israel, where Hebrew was successfully resurrected.
Ireland (most of it anyway) is independent but it's language doesn't appear to be doing so well. There's little prospect of Welsh independence but the language seems to be coming back. Scots Gaelic is on it's last legs, apparently.
Why any parent would want to impede their child's education in this way escapes me completely.
Surely the language teaching lobby has always told us that learning one foreign language helps with others. If true (which tbh I doubt) then French, German and Spanish results should be on the up at those schools.
There's some research I think which confirms that. I believe teaching of foreign languages in British schools is declining generally, though. Or is it just European languages?
We don't even teach English in our schools. I went to a grammar school in the 1970s and was never taught English grammar. And if you don't know how your own language works, how on earth are you going to be able to learn other ones?
I was 11 when I went to America in 1975, and that was the first place that I got taught English grammar. It was taught in a very rigid manner, but very useful later on.
English and maths were well taught in Georgia, the rest of the subjects much less so.
I went to school in DC for two years and learned almost nothing except how to be an expert shot with a pistol on the school's shooting range.
British kids learn almost no English grammar. I have had plenty of native English speaking A level students who can't name the seventeen English verbs that can't take the present continuous tense. I have also met foreign students of English (usually Dutch or German) who can.
So if a British student has achieved some proficiency in one foreign language they will almost certainly do better at a second just because they have finally had to learn some grammar.
Really wish I was a linguist. Rather be a linguist than most other things I wish I was. I've heard that when learning a new language there comes a kind of "dam breaking" moment when you make a leap and you reach the next step. Two or three of those and you arrive at competency. Then it's about fine-tuning, playing with it, getting the quirky tics & tacs, and lo you're fluent. I've never managed the first quantum move as an adult. School French was ok but beyond that, no. I had total immersion German lessons on the company for 12 weeks when I lived in Vienna and yet did not progress much beyond "das ist ein hund". I nailed that - totally - but then seemed to get stuck. On a brighter note, I'm doing Spiral soup to nuts atm and I think it's doing wonders for my French. Can follow bits of it without looking at the subtitles.
[..]
I don't think it's like this. (I have learnt other languages to a reasonably high level). Fluency in languages comes from putting in the hard work and exposing yourself to listening, speaking, reading and writing. Of these, listening is the most important. You need to do lots of it.
About 5% of the population is a genius at languages; maybe 10% just don't have the way of thinking. For the other 85%, it's a case of application and exposure and you will get to a decent standard.
Yes, I didn't mean to imply it wasn't more about exposure and putting in the effort as opposed to innate talent. I'm sure it is. Most things are. But you do get those quite sudden jumps forward, don't you? It's not linear. Again, like most things. For a while, as you try to learn something, you're getting better but you don't realize it. Then, boom, you do. And onto the next level. Key is to not give up before that first jump.
I see what you mean. When I learnt a musical instrument, I started out with enthusiasm; then thought after doing it for a while, this sounds pretty horrible; then no, actually, this is music; cheered up by that, then I got to a plateau: it's OK but I'm not very good. But that's more about motivation than anything. You get fewer Eureka moments with language learning than other things because there is relatively little technique involved, where issues can be unblocked by doing things in a different way
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
Even more so now that the GSK/Sanofi vaccine has failed to launch. The EU has got huge dependence on CureVac coming up with a working vaccine.
I have to say the whole EU vaccine scheme looks to me like one of those "how not to do something" examples that opponents of the EU will use in the future. Between Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and J&J the UK is probably second best placed in the world wrt vaccines after Japan.
Har Har Har , what utter jingoistic bollox.
Max is being absolutely factual. Indeed I'm genuinely curious why he put us behind Japan?
There's nothing jingoistic in that.
Japan put their money behind Pfizer and Moderna, their portfolio is really good.
Indeed it is but I'm assuming they're locked out of Moderna like the rest of the non-US world until the Spring still?
Pfizer seems to be the golden goose that the UK, Japan and USA were wise to back early. Remarkable it was invented by a German company but their order only went in on Remembrance Day so they're struggling for rollout compared to the rest of us.
Yeah but their Pfizer order is massive. Obviously there is a lot of luck involved because had mRNA vaccines had serious issues they'd be completey fucked. One of the reasons our overall portfolio is so strong is that the taskforce went for a wide and deep strategy with multiple vectors and mechanisms. It's genuinely the only credit I can give the government in this whole mess.
What about testing? We test far more than any other European Country
Nope, there's no point in doing so many tests if it isn't backed by a proper contact tracing/testing and isolation scheme. Our testing has turned into an expensive monitoring programme. We might as well not bother.
As I said earlier, and others have also said, why can't testing centres be made into vaccination centres. Giving jabs is not hard - diabetics to it to themselves several times a day. You certainly don't need to be a qualified nurse. It is far less difficult than taking a swab.
At the minute there's no spare doses so why do that?
If other vaccines get approved and manufacturing ramps up that may happen in the future but for now we are capped in the number of doses available.
I was talking this morning to a chum whose son is high up in public health and sits in the Covid COBRA meetings.
Word from him was that this new mutation is bastard contagious....
That’s why the Times quote about Supercovid’s extra infectiousness leapt out at me. They didn’t cite the 0.4 lower range of R, but the higher one. 0.93. The article (and a similar one on Sky News) was clearly implying that scientists, even at this early stage, are tending to pessimism.
Brrrrr
Discussion here yesterday suggested it may just hang around in the body for longer, which wouldn't be so bad. But other sources (for example the good Dr John Campbell's video on it - his videoblogs are excellent, if you havent caught them) suggest it has other advantages including being better able to fight off the immune system's defences, which isn't so good.
Another suggestion in The Times is that Supercovid may still respond to vaccines, but be more resistant. In other words Pfizer’s 95% may go down to 60% or whatever.
That's an irresponsible suggestion because we don't know that there is any effect on the vaccine yet. Speculation here strikes me as counterproductive.
Then tell that to the Times science writer. I am merely conveying what he says
‘It’s unlikely that the vaccines won’t work but it is possible that they won’t work quite so well‘
To me, this is the only truly crucial question about the variant. Will the vax still work? If that's a "yes" then we're just looking at more difficult last 6 months of this pandemic rather than the start of a new one.
I am refusing to think about your second alternative there. Just too awful to process this side of xmas.
The pathetic we’re better than you, no we’re not debates are ridiculous in a global pandemic it’s rather sad that’s the only aspect of this global disaster some people want to concentrate on. Linking it to brexit compounds the fixation on petty nationalism maybe it’s time some people looked out of their window rather than at the computer feed.
On vaccination, I don't wish to be a killjoy, but wouldn't it be best to wait six months (or even a year) before boasting about the UK's performance? By then, we should know whether our rate of vaccination is world-beating, average or poor. In other words, it's too soon to judge right now.
It reminds me of back in May when many people were rushing to judgements about comparative death rates between countries when, as we now know, it was far too early to tell.
I am genuinely curious, if we end up at 35% or whatever the number is, is that going to be acceptable to the fishermen who I assume are waiting to have 100% back?
We don't have enough fishermen to deal with 100% iirc.
I don't think that has any relevance to some Brexiteers
Of course it doesn't. If need be the fish can stay in the water reproducing while our fishing industry offers new jobs and builds up. There's no obligation to get the fish out of the water instantly.
Fish are probably quite happy where they are as well.
As I said earlier, and others have also said, why can't testing centres be made into vaccination centres. Giving jabs is not hard - diabetics to it to themselves several times a day. You certainly don't need to be a qualified nurse. It is far less difficult than taking a swab.
At the minute there's no spare doses so why do that?
The pathetic we’re better than you, no we’re not debates are ridiculous in a global pandemic it’s rather sad that’s the only aspect of this global disaster some people want to concentrate on. Linking it to brexit compounds the fixation on petty nationalism maybe it’s time some people looked out of their window rather than at the computer feed.
I heartily agree. However the argument HAS got fouled up by Leaver-Remoaner ‘rivalry’, with both sides trying to score futile points.
Just stick lots of needles in lots of people, wherever they live. Get on with it.
On vaccination, I don't wish to be a killjoy, but wouldn't it be best to wait six months (or even a year) before boasting about the UK's performance? By then, we should know whether our rate of vaccination is world-beating, average or poor. In other words, it's too soon to judge right now.
It reminds me of back in May when many people were rushing to judgements about comparative death rates between countries when, as we now know, it was far too early to tell.
Considering I have three loved ones already vaccinated I'm going to say no. I am delighted we already have a vaccine being rolled out and quite frankly that is the most important development of the entire pandemic so far.
The UK is paying $37 per dose of the Moderna vaccine. The EU is paying $18 per dose. Both buyers ordered 40m doses. The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
The British have vaccinated 500k people already. The EU haven't vaccinated anyone.
The EU offered the UK to join its buying consortium, but the UK turned them down and got the vaccines first. This is the team negotiating Brexit terms of trade.
But it’s not the end picture though? If the others vaccinate quicker, even though giving us head start go passed us. they will have vaccinated faster at half the price in the end picture? Plus learnt from our pilot scheme giving it to people with allergies for example? 😕
But that's not the case. The EU is not going to be vaccinating quicker than us.
We will get through our priority list before the EU does the same. Quibbling over pennies per dose but getting your doses months later is a very false economy when you look at the cost of Covid in both lives and damage to the economy.
Plus malcolm's numbers didn't come with a source and don't match what anyone else is saying. Everyone else is reporting we're paying a bit more but getting the vaccines month's sooner - paying a bit more but getting it sooner is fantastic value for money in the grand scheme of things.
What's more, the Spiegel article strongly suggested that it was French protectionism of Sanofi that led to smaller later EU orders.
And disappointingly the Sanofi/GSK effort has been setback by at least six months.
Six months may as well become never, at this rate surely Sanofi need to be instructed to licence manufacturing for Moderna, AZ or J&J. They have substantial manufacturing capacity and waiting for an indefinite period of time to reformulate their vaccine and then put it through another set of PII/III trials seems like a huge waste of resources.
For now there is no sign of either Pfizer or Moderna licensing any of their competitors to produce their vaccines. Moderna did say something earlier this year about not enforcing patents on the vaccine, but to produce it elsewhere would in any event require cooperation on the manufacturing secrets.
How long before we head Pfizer and Moderna have tweaked the instructions in their vaccine to counter SUPERCOVID? I was under the impression this work takes mere days. Are we expecting them to need to do a full new trial or just roll with the existing license?
In normal times it might require full trials, but these are not normal times. It is an interesting question.
On vaccination, I don't wish to be a killjoy, but wouldn't it be best to wait six months (or even a year) before boasting about the UK's performance? By then, we should know whether our rate of vaccination is world-beating, average or poor. In other words, it's too soon to judge right now.
It reminds me of back in May when many people were rushing to judgements about comparative death rates between countries when, as we now know, it was far too early to tell.
I think plenty of concern over delivery...but on procurement, credit where credit is due, the UK government have done well on the vaccine front.
The pathetic we’re better than you, no we’re not debates are ridiculous in a global pandemic it’s rather sad that’s the only aspect of this global disaster some people want to concentrate on. Linking it to brexit compounds the fixation on petty nationalism maybe it’s time some people looked out of their window rather than at the computer feed.
I agree completely and just pray that a brexit deals happens, any brexit deal
On vaccination, I don't wish to be a killjoy, but wouldn't it be best to wait six months (or even a year) before boasting about the UK's performance? By then, we should know whether our rate of vaccination is world-beating, average or poor. In other words, it's too soon to judge right now.
It reminds me of back in May when many people were rushing to judgements about comparative death rates between countries when, as we now know, it was far too early to tell.
I think plenty of concern over delivery...but on procurement, credit where credit is due, the UK government have done well on the vaccine front.
This Country can test 500,000+ per day. The delivery of the vaccine is much simpler, Its just a jab. 2 million a day will not be a problem
The pathetic we’re better than you, no we’re not debates are ridiculous in a global pandemic it’s rather sad that’s the only aspect of this global disaster some people want to concentrate on. Linking it to brexit compounds the fixation on petty nationalism maybe it’s time some people looked out of their window rather than at the computer feed.
I heartily agree. However the argument HAS got fouled up by Leaver-Remoaner ‘rivalry’, with both sides trying to score futile points.
Just stick lots of needles in lots of people, wherever they live. Get on with it.
I take it you mean there should be syringes with vaccine in behind them, rather than a mass pin sticking campaign?
Yes, I think we're in the final haggle on this. Assuming the corona state aid issue has been solved too, we should get a deal by Christmas Eve.
We're then into the fun realms of ratification - which won't necessarily be a cakewalk either.
I can see the UK and the EU reaching a deal.
And then Macron vetoes it.
Frantic discussions ensue in EU captials about how do they try and hold the line to stop countries doing their own side deals with the UK to implement the terms of that EU deal. Won't that be a shit-fest....where we effectively have a trade deal with the EU sans France.
The pathetic we’re better than you, no we’re not debates are ridiculous in a global pandemic it’s rather sad that’s the only aspect of this global disaster some people want to concentrate on. Linking it to brexit compounds the fixation on petty nationalism maybe it’s time some people looked out of their window rather than at the computer feed.
I heartily agree. However the argument HAS got fouled up by Leaver-Remoaner ‘rivalry’, with both sides trying to score futile points.
Just stick lots of needles in lots of people, wherever they live. Get on with it.
I take it you mean there should be syringes with vaccine in behind them, rather than a mass pin sticking campaign?
I was talking this morning to a chum whose son is high up in public health and sits in the Covid COBRA meetings.
Word from him was that this new mutation is bastard contagious....
That’s why the Times quote about Supercovid’s extra infectiousness leapt out at me. They didn’t cite the 0.4 lower range of R, but the higher one. 0.93. The article (and a similar one on Sky News) was clearly implying that scientists, even at this early stage, are tending to pessimism.
Brrrrr
Discussion here yesterday suggested it may just hang around in the body for longer, which wouldn't be so bad. But other sources (for example the good Dr John Campbell's video on it - his videoblogs are excellent, if you havent caught them) suggest it has other advantages including being better able to fight off the immune system's defences, which isn't so good.
Another suggestion in The Times is that Supercovid may still respond to vaccines, but be more resistant. In other words Pfizer’s 95% may go down to 60% or whatever.
That's an irresponsible suggestion because we don't know that there is any effect on the vaccine yet. Speculation here strikes me as counterproductive.
Then tell that to the Times science writer. I am merely conveying what he says
‘It’s unlikely that the vaccines won’t work but it is possible that they won’t work quite so well‘
To me, this is the only truly crucial question about the variant. Will the vax still work? If that's a "yes" then we're just looking at more difficult last 6 months of this pandemic rather than the start of a new one.
I am refusing to think about your second alternative there. Just too awful to process this side of xmas.
In that unlikely event, it would actually be very simple to change the mRNA vaccines (the original ones were designed in days). If the situation were sufficiently bad, I think it fairly probable we'd move straight to a large scale trial and mass production of the new vaccine.
On vaccination, I don't wish to be a killjoy, but wouldn't it be best to wait six months (or even a year) before boasting about the UK's performance? By then, we should know whether our rate of vaccination is world-beating, average or poor. In other words, it's too soon to judge right now.
It reminds me of back in May when many people were rushing to judgements about comparative death rates between countries when, as we now know, it was far too early to tell.
I think plenty of concern over delivery...but on procurement, credit where credit is due, the UK government have done well on the vaccine front.
This Country can test 500,000+ per day. The delivery of the vaccine is much simpler, Its just a jab. 2 million a day will not be a problem
I am no expert on logistics but vaccinating 2 million a day would see the whole UK vaccinated in a month
The pathetic we’re better than you, no we’re not debates are ridiculous in a global pandemic it’s rather sad that’s the only aspect of this global disaster some people want to concentrate on. Linking it to brexit compounds the fixation on petty nationalism maybe it’s time some people looked out of their window rather than at the computer feed.
I heartily agree. However the argument HAS got fouled up by Leaver-Remoaner ‘rivalry’, with both sides trying to score futile points.
Just stick lots of needles in lots of people, wherever they live. Get on with it.
I take it you mean there should be syringes with vaccine in behind them, rather than a mass pin sticking campaign?
On vaccination, I don't wish to be a killjoy, but wouldn't it be best to wait six months (or even a year) before boasting about the UK's performance? By then, we should know whether our rate of vaccination is world-beating, average or poor. In other words, it's too soon to judge right now.
It reminds me of back in May when many people were rushing to judgements about comparative death rates between countries when, as we now know, it was far too early to tell.
I think plenty of concern over delivery...but on procurement, credit where credit is due, the UK government have done well on the vaccine front.
This Country can test 500,000+ per day. The delivery of the vaccine is much simpler, Its just a jab. 2 million a day will not be a problem
I am no expert on logistics but vaccinating 2 million a day would see the whole UK vaccinated in a month
That is not anything near possible
2 doses, so two months.
Not that I disagree with your basic point. I think if we can manage 400,000 a day we’ll have done really well.
But once around 30% of the population has been vaccinated, especially the most vulnerable 30%, it should make life much easier all around.
I was talking this morning to a chum whose son is high up in public health and sits in the Covid COBRA meetings.
Word from him was that this new mutation is bastard contagious....
That’s why the Times quote about Supercovid’s extra infectiousness leapt out at me. They didn’t cite the 0.4 lower range of R, but the higher one. 0.93. The article (and a similar one on Sky News) was clearly implying that scientists, even at this early stage, are tending to pessimism.
Brrrrr
Discussion here yesterday suggested it may just hang around in the body for longer, which wouldn't be so bad. But other sources (for example the good Dr John Campbell's video on it - his videoblogs are excellent, if you havent caught them) suggest it has other advantages including being better able to fight off the immune system's defences, which isn't so good.
Another suggestion in The Times is that Supercovid may still respond to vaccines, but be more resistant. In other words Pfizer’s 95% may go down to 60% or whatever.
That's an irresponsible suggestion because we don't know that there is any effect on the vaccine yet. Speculation here strikes me as counterproductive.
Then tell that to the Times science writer. I am merely conveying what he says
‘It’s unlikely that the vaccines won’t work but it is possible that they won’t work quite so well‘
To me, this is the only truly crucial question about the variant. Will the vax still work? If that's a "yes" then we're just looking at more difficult last 6 months of this pandemic rather than the start of a new one.
I am refusing to think about your second alternative there. Just too awful to process this side of xmas.
In that unlikely event, it would actually be very simple to change the mRNA vaccines (the original ones were designed in days). If the situation were sufficiently bad, I think it fairly probable we'd move straight to a large scale trial and mass production of the new vaccine.
Yes, I think that's the beauty of the mRNA model, it can be adjusted very quickly and then manufacturing can be switched over. It's a huge shame that the government didn't back the Imperial vaccine and spin it out into an mRNA focused biotech. It is definitely a missed opportunity for UK pharma and we had ample justification to provide state subsidies in this scenario with a golden stake taken in the spin off.
Comments
There's nothing jingoistic in that.
A deal?
I am genuinely curious, if we end up at 35% or whatever the number is, is that going to be acceptable to the fishermen who I assume are waiting to have 100% back?
We will not be front of the queue a 300m client is more important than a 40m one
I believe it is you that is delusional We have massively overpaid and received only about 10% of the doses we were supposed to receive by next week
Some of the private research available on this is really good too as so much of next year's economic recovery is dependent on vaccine rollout.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/22/covid-cases-recorded-in-antarctica-for-first-time
Deleting or changing posts should be referred to the moderator
Supply-Chain Obstacles Led to Last Month’s Cut to Pfizer’s Covid-19 Vaccine-Rollout Target
Pharma giant found raw materials in early production didn’t meet its standards
https://www.wsj.com/articles/pfizer-slashed-its-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-target-after-facing-supply-chain-obstacles-11607027787
Wait, we're above 80,000 deaths now?
We're going to hit 100,000 aren't we
Given the vaccine programme is now underway, are there any good reasons why instead we cannot flip to risk segmentation by age group?
If you are over [60], then enforced stay at home for you and everyone in your household until you’re vaxxed. If you really want to be serious about it based on super covid, stay at home means stay at home and ask the army to deliver food packages door to door, as was done in several Asian countries earlier in the year.
It’s a short period of time and we can fairly clearly designate an end date to each household.
Meanwhile kids can still go to school and small businesses can try and trade their way out of bankruptcy. 3 months more of blunt one size fits all lockdown is more than the working age and their children should have to bear.
One corker FPT was that the Democrats had done well because they won the House, forgetting that they lost seats in what was supposed to be a very big year for them - and they now have a wafer-thin majority of 9.
Don't listen to these people if you're placing bets.
Congratulations on the mod promotion, when did this happen?
Private "Ssht.. let's all have a secret chat."
Turkey or chicken for Christmas?
Pfizer seems to be the golden goose that the UK, Japan and USA were wise to back early. Remarkable it was invented by a German company but their order only went in on Remembrance Day so they're struggling for rollout compared to the rest of us.
Anyway, Macron is going the right way about their number being 0%. Twat.
Moderna did say something earlier this year about not enforcing patents on the vaccine, but to produce it elsewhere would in any event require cooperation on the manufacturing secrets.
You must be here on a windup, I refuse to believe anyone can post like this with a straight face.
If we get Oxford and Johnson and Johnson approved in January, supply isn't going to be an issue, it is going to be delivery.
We will see how rollout continues. America will probably overtake the UK because America has a 100% exclusivity deal with Moderna one of only two globally approved western vaccines - but the idea that the EU scheme is better because it put a deal in on Remembrance Day? Preposterous.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=39&LAB=37&LIB=6&Brexit=4&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=19.3&SCOTLAB=19&SCOTLIB=5.7&SCOTBrexit=1&SCOTGreen=1.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=51.7&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019
Shame she seems to have no idea what it means.
We're then into the fun realms of ratification - which won't necessarily be a cakewalk either.
If other vaccines get approved and manufacturing ramps up that may happen in the future but for now we are capped in the number of doses available.
Phew. Over 12,000 posts for you, and you started posting years after me; and I'd been lurking since 2008 anyway....
Quality over quantity I'm sure. That's what I say anyway, though my old boss always said that quantity is a quality all by itself.
So it was beyond the last minute, aka far too late.
A bit like everything else this government does.
It reminds me of back in May when many people were rushing to judgements about comparative death rates between countries when, as we now know, it was far too early to tell.
Just stick lots of needles in lots of people, wherever they live. Get on with it.
It is an interesting question.
Mince.
That's one of the greats, right there.
And then Macron vetoes it.
Frantic discussions ensue in EU captials about how do they try and hold the line to stop countries doing their own side deals with the UK to implement the terms of that EU deal. Won't that be a shit-fest....where we effectively have a trade deal with the EU sans France.
I could see a French veto, but the EU would stick together.
If the situation were sufficiently bad, I think it fairly probable we'd move straight to a large scale trial and mass production of the new vaccine.
Just get it done now. We need it out of the way so we can focus on the infinitely larger calamity
Philips Hi Ho Hi Ho its off to WTO we go is unfortunately consistent with the moronic nature of his Brexit postings of late.
That is not anything near possible
Paging Hyufd...
It was a joke.
Not that I disagree with your basic point. I think if we can manage 400,000 a day we’ll have done really well.
But once around 30% of the population has been vaccinated, especially the most vulnerable 30%, it should make life much easier all around.