I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
The French are directly exposed to a large number of travellers arriving specifically from a Tier 4 area of the UK, Is any other country?
Given Heathrow is in Tier 4...
Which is probably why so many countries are banning flights from the UK. France also has a roll-on, roll-off ferry port to deal with - and thousands of lorry drivers who have been sat, motionless, in Kent for several days. A 48 hour break to take stock of the situation is not an act of war or sabotage, it is a sensible step that could allow some solutions to be found.
Then say so. Say that you're going to set up testing etc. at Calais.
They have said it is for 48 hours so that they can take stock. It may well end up with testing at Calais or at Dover or at both. Though the delays that would entail will also be immense. It's an incredibly complex, fast-moving, situation over which no government has anything like full control.
The expert on R4 explaining a factoid that cropped up on PB this Saturday, that the new virus strain cannot be identified by one of the tests being used - actually one of the two confirmatory tests done on each sample after the primary test, which for the new strain always comes back negative. While this isn’t affecting total case numbers identified, because of the other two tests, presumably the loss of one of the confirmatory tests makes the results a tad less reliable.
Is that the Lateral Flow Test that isn't picking it up? Because that is the one used to test end of term students returning home.
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
The French are directly exposed to a large number of travellers arriving specifically from a Tier 4 area of the UK, Is any other country?
Belgium and Holland via ferries and trains.
That said I can see why the French govt did this and I don’t think it’s that devious or evil. If a terrifying new strain of the Pest was identified in France the British public would clamour for the channel ports to be closed, in just the same way.
It’s fruitless tho. If the science is even half right Hard New Bastard Covid is already in the EU and will inexorably spread
It may even have come from there. Italy has had a particularly torrid time this last month or so and Spain isn't much better. It doesn't really matter, it's everywhere and it significantly impacts on what we can get away with whilst keeping the R rate below 1.
My guess, based on the information provided, is that we are somewhere near half way what the death toll is going to be from this pernicious virus before vaccination gives enough of us protection. January will almost certainly be the worst month yet.
That’s if the vaccines are as effective against Supercovid. Most pundits are saying We should be fine, but enough scientists are saying Let’s wait and see, to slightly put me off my breakfast kipper
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
It wouldn't be a question of doing any particular trick, just preventing mass international panic and all continental countries bricking up the channel tunnel.
The precautionary principle would still apply and see countries closing their borders.
But probably quite considerably less, if the UK government had mentioned from the start that our global genomic lead may have led us to pick up this change first.
Almost like a government that's isn't stopping to think about the importance of its international relationships and dependencies.
No I don't think so.
It would still be a case of this new scary mutant variant is definitely in the UK and unknown whether in their country.
Every politician can either close the border with the UK, even if it's too late, and still see it spread ... Or they can keep the border open, see it spread, then get blame from voters saying why did you not close the border?
The precautionary principle is to close the border either way. Nothing Boris did or did not say changes that.
As mentioned, I don't agree. The precautionary principle would still be in place, but if people thought this was partly because the UK was ahead rather than behind, that would partly offset it.
No because that would be (partially rightly) seen as self serving British spin while people here would be mocking Boris for saying the UK was world beating. Even though we are.
It would not change any facts on the ground. They know for a fact we have this.
The fact that Johnson has missed a rare genuine opportunity for one of his world-beating claims is part of the problem. The reaction would have come, but it wouldn't have been as fast or unqualified.
I see no reason besides blind optimism to believe that. What country would willingly expose themselves to a nation they KNOW has a deadlier variant when they don't know if they have it themselves or not?
It doesn't matter if they probably have it or not, they might not while we DEFINITELY do.
The fact that not all european countries have imposed air bans as yet should show it's more complicated than that, however much the first instinct might be to lock down. If you think your own sequencing capacity and scientific prestige might not be as good, you might contemplate other action first.
And broadcast your only reason you're not taking action is because you lack confidence in your own abilities? So aren't acting because you're ignorant?
Not all countries have implemented air bans but all our neighbours were first to act. And for very good reason.
They did the right thing. We should do the same in their shoes. We did with the Danes. They are not doing the wrong thing here they are doing the right thing.
This new Covid strain is going to be our Spanish Flu. Which almost certainly didnt start in Spain but has the misfortune to be titled after it. Is it a coincidence it brewed up in the part of England closest to the continent?
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
It wouldn't be a question of doing any particular trick, just preventing mass international panic and all continental countries bricking up the channel tunnel.
The precautionary principle would still apply and see countries closing their borders.
But probably quite considerably less, if the UK government had mentioned from the start that our global genomic lead may have led us to pick up this change first.
Almost like a government that's isn't stopping to think about the importance of its international relationships and dependencies.
No I don't think so.
It would still be a case of this new scary mutant variant is definitely in the UK and unknown whether in their country.
Every politician can either close the border with the UK, even if it's too late, and still see it spread ... Or they can keep the border open, see it spread, then get blame from voters saying why did you not close the border?
The precautionary principle is to close the border either way. Nothing Boris did or did not say changes that.
As mentioned, I don't agree. The precautionary principle would still be in place, but if people thought this was partly because the UK was ahead rather than behind, that would partly offset it.
No because that would be (partially rightly) seen as self serving British spin while people here would be mocking Boris for saying the UK was world beating. Even though we are.
It would not change any facts on the ground. They know for a fact we have this.
The fact that Johnson has missed a rare genuine opportunity for one of his world-beating claims is part of the problem. The reaction would have come, but it wouldn't have been as strong.
He did say it. He explicitly said in his presser ‘the UK has world beating gene sequencing’. The trouble is he’s used that phrase so often, and so spuriously - ‘world beating test and trace’ - it now gets ignored.
I feel sorry for Boris (unlike many here), but he has also been the author of his own misfortune.
And because he, also, ironically and uncharacteristically, made no attempt to bind that to any sort of better possibility for Britain's position with the virus, no one in the international audience heard it.
This new Covid strain is going to be our Spanish Flu. Which almost certainly didnt start in Spain but has the misfortune to be titled after it. Is it a coincidence it brewed up in the part of England closest to the continent?
It seems to be. Evidence seems to be it originated in a prison. Whether it got from the prison via the continent is unknown but not the first place you'd expect to see international travel.
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Oh well, at least we have made it to the Winter Solstice.
I have an astrological friend who predicted in 2019 that 2020 would see a terrible global crisis. She’s now saying the stars suggest 2021 will be WORSE
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
It wouldn't be a question of doing any particular trick, just preventing mass international panic and all continental countries bricking up the channel tunnel.
The precautionary principle would still apply and see countries closing their borders.
But probably quite considerably less, if the UK government had mentioned from the start that our global genomic lead may have led us to pick up this change first.
Almost like a government that's isn't stopping to think about the importance of its international relationships and dependencies.
No I don't think so.
It would still be a case of this new scary mutant variant is definitely in the UK and unknown whether in their country.
Every politician can either close the border with the UK, even if it's too late, and still see it spread ... Or they can keep the border open, see it spread, then get blame from voters saying why did you not close the border?
The precautionary principle is to close the border either way. Nothing Boris did or did not say changes that.
As mentioned, I don't agree. The precautionary principle would still be in place, but if people thought this was partly because the UK was ahead rather than behind, that would partly offset it.
No because that would be (partially rightly) seen as self serving British spin while people here would be mocking Boris for saying the UK was world beating. Even though we are.
It would not change any facts on the ground. They know for a fact we have this.
The fact that Johnson has missed a rare genuine opportunity for one of his world-beating claims is part of the problem. The reaction would have come, but it wouldn't have been as fast or unqualified.
I see no reason besides blind optimism to believe that. What country would willingly expose themselves to a nation they KNOW has a deadlier variant when they don't know if they have it themselves or not?
It doesn't matter if they probably have it or not, they might not while we DEFINITELY do.
The fact that not all european countries have imposed air bans as yet should show it's more complicated than that, however much the first instinct might be to lock down. If you think your own sequencing capacity and scientific prestige might not be as good, you might contemplate other action first.
And broadcast your only reason you're not taking action is because you lack confidence in your own abilities? So aren't acting because you're ignorant?
Not all countries have implemented air bans but all our neighbours were first to act. And for very good reason.
They did the right thing. We should do the same in their shoes. We did with the Danes. They are not doing the wrong thing here they are doing the right thing.
It's not clear yet, and the government should have made that more clear.
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I oppose it.
I think ending transition during shutdown is perfect timing and we need to end the uncertainty over Brexit.
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Given the COVID situation - and you clearly think the French action has fuck all to do with Brexit - it makes no difference.
I am shocked that a Remainer is coming to the conclusion that we need to agree a bad deal.
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Do we really want more months of this unending and entirely unproductive argument? If we don't have a deal now we have to accept that there won't be one in which case we are as well moving to the next stage and the introduction of mini deals to solve problems as they arise.
The expert on R4 explaining a factoid that cropped up on PB this Saturday, that the new virus strain cannot be identified by one of the tests being used - actually one of the two confirmatory tests done on each sample after the primary test, which for the new strain always comes back negative. While this isn’t affecting total case numbers identified, because of the other two tests, presumably the loss of one of the confirmatory tests makes the results a tad less reliable.
According to this Wikipedia article, NERVTAG considered the possibility of antigenic escape, ie it is novel enough that having old-style COVID doesn't confer immunity to the new variant. Which may be one reason it is spreading faster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VUI_–_202012/01?wprov=sfla1
To everyone suggesting Bojo is not up to the job - and I agree his upbeat personality is a bad fit with Black Death - they also need to suggest their desired alternative.
Quite frankly, we aren’t blessed with gritty, ballsy, smart, capable, determined, inspiring and unflinching leaders.
The best I can come up with is Jeremy Hunt, which says it all.
Perfectly fresh fruit is rare, so we'll just settle for the piece that is the most rotten and mouldy? It's a view, I suppose.
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
It wouldn't be a question of doing any particular trick, just preventing mass international panic and all continental countries bricking up the channel tunnel.
The precautionary principle would still apply and see countries closing their borders.
But probably quite considerably less, if the UK government had mentioned from the start that our global genomic lead may have led us to pick up this change first.
Almost like a government that's isn't stopping to think about the importance of its international relationships and dependencies.
No I don't think so.
It would still be a case of this new scary mutant variant is definitely in the UK and unknown whether in their country.
Every politician can either close the border with the UK, even if it's too late, and still see it spread ... Or they can keep the border open, see it spread, then get blame from voters saying why did you not close the border?
The precautionary principle is to close the border either way. Nothing Boris did or did not say changes that.
As mentioned, I don't agree. The precautionary principle would still be in place, but if people thought this was partly because the UK was ahead rather than behind, that would partly offset it.
No because that would be (partially rightly) seen as self serving British spin while people here would be mocking Boris for saying the UK was world beating. Even though we are.
It would not change any facts on the ground. They know for a fact we have this.
The fact that Johnson has missed a rare genuine opportunity for one of his world-beating claims is part of the problem. The reaction would have come, but it wouldn't have been as strong.
He did say it. He explicitly said in his presser ‘the UK has world beating gene sequencing’. The trouble is he’s used that phrase so often, and so spuriously - ‘world beating test and trace’ - it now gets ignored.
I feel sorry for Boris (unlike many here), but he has also been the author of his own misfortune.
And because he, ironically and uncharacteristically, made no attempt to bind that to any sort of better possibility for Britain's position with the virus, no one in the international audience heard it.
He looked utterly pole-axed in that presser. Way off form. But I think almost any democratic leader would have looked the same. The situation is so grim it requires a political Titan. I can’t see any Titans.
Oh well, at least we have made it to the Winter Solstice.
I have an astrological friend who predicted in 2019 that 2020 would see a terrible global crisis. She’s now saying the stars suggest 2021 will be WORSE
On that note, time for coffee
Conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn must be a portent of something.
To everyone suggesting Bojo is not up to the job - and I agree his upbeat personality is a bad fit with Black Death - they also need to suggest their desired alternative.
Quite frankly, we aren’t blessed with gritty, ballsy, smart, capable, determined, inspiring and unflinching leaders.
The best I can come up with is Jeremy Hunt, which says it all.
Perfectly fresh fruit is rare, so we'll just settle for the piece that is the most rotten and mouldy? It's a view, I suppose.
So who do you suggest? That’s my question. My best yet disappointing answer is Hunt
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
The French are directly exposed to a large number of travellers arriving specifically from a Tier 4 area of the UK, Is any other country?
Belgium and Holland via ferries and trains.
That said I can see why the French govt did this and I don’t think it’s that devious or evil. If a terrifying new strain of the Pest was identified in France the British public would clamour for the channel ports to be closed, in just the same way.
It’s fruitless tho. If the science is even half right Hard New Bastard Covid is already in the EU and will inexorably spread
Never mind the channel ports, there is clamour to stop the island ferries to save us from Portsmouth
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
It wouldn't be a question of doing any particular trick, just preventing mass international panic and all continental countries bricking up the channel tunnel.
The precautionary principle would still apply and see countries closing their borders.
But probably quite considerably less, if the UK government had mentioned from the start that our global genomic lead may have led us to pick up this change first.
Almost like a government that's isn't stopping to think about the importance of its international relationships and dependencies.
No I don't think so.
It would still be a case of this new scary mutant variant is definitely in the UK and unknown whether in their country.
Every politician can either close the border with the UK, even if it's too late, and still see it spread ... Or they can keep the border open, see it spread, then get blame from voters saying why did you not close the border?
The precautionary principle is to close the border either way. Nothing Boris did or did not say changes that.
As mentioned, I don't agree. The precautionary principle would still be in place, but if people thought this was partly because the UK was ahead rather than behind, that would partly offset it.
No because that would be (partially rightly) seen as self serving British spin while people here would be mocking Boris for saying the UK was world beating. Even though we are.
It would not change any facts on the ground. They know for a fact we have this.
The fact that Johnson has missed a rare genuine opportunity for one of his world-beating claims is part of the problem. The reaction would have come, but it wouldn't have been as fast or unqualified.
I see no reason besides blind optimism to believe that. What country would willingly expose themselves to a nation they KNOW has a deadlier variant when they don't know if they have it themselves or not?
It doesn't matter if they probably have it or not, they might not while we DEFINITELY do.
The fact that not all european countries have imposed air bans as yet should show it's more complicated than that, however much the first instinct might be to lock down. If you think your own sequencing capacity and scientific prestige might not be as good, you might contemplate other action first.
And broadcast your only reason you're not taking action is because you lack confidence in your own abilities? So aren't acting because you're ignorant?
Not all countries have implemented air bans but all our neighbours were first to act. And for very good reason.
They did the right thing. We should do the same in their shoes. We did with the Danes. They are not doing the wrong thing here they are doing the right thing.
It's not clear yet, and the government should have made that more clear.
They did.
It wouldn't change a thing.
You seem to be under some naive impression that shutting down the border right now is a bad thing. Or the wrong thing to do.
Shutting down the border now is eminently logical.
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
The French are directly exposed to a large number of travellers arriving specifically from a Tier 4 area of the UK, Is any other country?
Belgium and Holland via ferries and trains.
That said I can see why the French govt did this and I don’t think it’s that devious or evil. If a terrifying new strain of the Pest was identified in France the British public would clamour for the channel ports to be closed, in just the same way.
It’s fruitless tho. If the science is even half right Hard New Bastard Covid is already in the EU and will inexorably spread
Never mind the channel ports, there is clamour to stop the island ferries to save us from Portsmouth
Same in Skye, Shetland etc. It’s a classic insular response
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Given the COVID situation - and you clearly think the French action has fuck all to do with Brexit - it makes no difference.
I am shocked that a Remainer is coming to the conclusion that we need to agree a bad deal.
We do not need to agree any deal to request an extension to the transition.
I am shocked that a Brexit loon does not understand that.
So we are still pretending that this was just a Boris U turn rather than an inevitable conclusion based on the new data followed in all the devolved administrations. I wonder why that would be?
Starmer knew it was necessary on Wednesday. BoZo said it would be inhuman.
BoZo announced it on Friday.
Which part of that is not a U-turn?
I didn't say it was not a U turn. I simply made the point that the U turn has been made by Sturgeon (who, inevitably, has gone further), Drakeford and Foster, three politicians of very different stripes who have no interest in supporting Johnson. So the new information has resulted in new policies everywhere (there are very few EU countries that have not tightened restrictions in the last 7 days) but we focus on Johnson here as if he was acting in an irrational way on the basis of a whim rather than evidence. It's ridiculous.
It's not ridiculous at all.
Exhibit A - a whole stack of comments from sensible PB'ers during the early part of last week Exhibit B - what the clown chose to say at Wednesday's PMQs
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I oppose it.
I think ending transition during shutdown is perfect timing and we need to end the uncertainty over Brexit.
JFDI applies.
Just do it to ensure it’s impact is hidden as best as possible, blame it on covid and the people,
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Do we really want more months of this unending and entirely unproductive argument? If we don't have a deal now we have to accept that there won't be one in which case we are as well moving to the next stage and the introduction of mini deals to solve problems as they arise.
Problems have arisen, David. Massive ones. They are likely to be exacerbated by a No Deal departure. And you do not get to mini deals without negotiations. In a situation such as this, the responsible thing to do is to reduce exposure to uncertainty and to control as much as can be controlled. An extension allows us to do that.
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Given the COVID situation - and you clearly think the French action has fuck all to do with Brexit - it makes no difference.
I am shocked that a Remainer is coming to the conclusion that we need to agree a bad deal.
We do not need to agree any deal to request an extension to the transition.
I am shocked that a Brexit loon does not understand that.
It’s sensible in two ways. It relives immediate pressure, but in a fast changing situation we can hardly be sure what kind of a deal we ultimately will need. Wont happen though, because Brexit is a religion.
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Given the COVID situation - and you clearly think the French action has fuck all to do with Brexit - it makes no difference.
I am shocked that a Remainer is coming to the conclusion that we need to agree a bad deal.
We do not need to agree any deal to request an extension to the transition.
I am shocked that a Brexit loon does not understand that.
It's obvious that no deal is the outcome. Nothing is going to change any time soon, so we should just get on and do it.
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I oppose it.
I think ending transition during shutdown is perfect timing and we need to end the uncertainty over Brexit.
JFDI applies.
It is very sweet that you believe a no deal end to the transition at a time like this will end Brexit uncertainty.
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
It wouldn't be a question of doing any particular trick, just preventing mass international panic and all continental countries bricking up the channel tunnel.
The precautionary principle would still apply and see countries closing their borders.
But probably quite considerably less, if the UK government had mentioned from the start that our global genomic lead may have led us to pick up this change first.
Almost like a government that's isn't stopping to think about the importance of its international relationships and dependencies.
No I don't think so.
It would still be a case of this new scary mutant variant is definitely in the UK and unknown whether in their country.
Every politician can either close the border with the UK, even if it's too late, and still see it spread ... Or they can keep the border open, see it spread, then get blame from voters saying why did you not close the border?
The precautionary principle is to close the border either way. Nothing Boris did or did not say changes that.
As mentioned, I don't agree. The precautionary principle would still be in place, but if people thought this was partly because the UK was ahead rather than behind, that would partly offset it.
No because that would be (partially rightly) seen as self serving British spin while people here would be mocking Boris for saying the UK was world beating. Even though we are.
It would not change any facts on the ground. They know for a fact we have this.
The fact that Johnson has missed a rare genuine opportunity for one of his world-beating claims is part of the problem. The reaction would have come, but it wouldn't have been as fast or unqualified.
I see no reason besides blind optimism to believe that. What country would willingly expose themselves to a nation they KNOW has a deadlier variant when they don't know if they have it themselves or not?
It doesn't matter if they probably have it or not, they might not while we DEFINITELY do.
The fact that not all european countries have imposed air bans as yet should show it's more complicated than that, however much the first instinct might be to lock down. If you think your own sequencing capacity and scientific prestige might not be as good, you might contemplate other action first.
And broadcast your only reason you're not taking action is because you lack confidence in your own abilities? So aren't acting because you're ignorant?
Not all countries have implemented air bans but all our neighbours were first to act. And for very good reason.
They did the right thing. We should do the same in their shoes. We did with the Danes. They are not doing the wrong thing here they are doing the right thing.
It's not clear yet, and the government should have made that more clear.
They did.
It wouldn't change a thing.
You seem to be under some naive impression that shutting down the border right now is a bad thing. Or the wrong thing to do.
Shutting down the border now is eminently logical.
They didn't make anything clear on national and international questions at all. Having briefly mentioned Britain's genomic lead, in what must have sounded to the continent like the usual British boosterism, there wasn't the slightest reference to the possibility that this may have been a question of global-leading discovery rather than localised change. Under those circumstances, closing the border is obviously not only logical, but the only course of action. If you hear a different statement and take other courses of action, you may well qualify or moderate the first action.
This argument is getting rather circular, so it's best for the thread to move on.
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Given the COVID situation - and you clearly think the French action has fuck all to do with Brexit - it makes no difference.
I am shocked that a Remainer is coming to the conclusion that we need to agree a bad deal.
We do not need to agree any deal to request an extension to the transition.
I am shocked that a Brexit loon does not understand that.
It’s sensible in two ways. It relives immediate pressure, but in a fast changing situation we can hardly be sure what kind of a deal we ultimately will need. Wont happen though, because Brexit is a religion.
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
The French are directly exposed to a large number of travellers arriving specifically from a Tier 4 area of the UK, Is any other country?
Belgium and Holland via ferries and trains.
That said I can see why the French govt did this and I don’t think it’s that devious or evil. If a terrifying new strain of the Pest was identified in France the British public would clamour for the channel ports to be closed, in just the same way.
It’s fruitless tho. If the science is even half right Hard New Bastard Covid is already in the EU and will inexorably spread
It may even have come from there. Italy has had a particularly torrid time this last month or so and Spain isn't much better. It doesn't really matter, it's everywhere and it significantly impacts on what we can get away with whilst keeping the R rate below 1.
My guess, based on the information provided, is that we are somewhere near half way what the death toll is going to be from this pernicious virus before vaccination gives enough of us protection. January will almost certainly be the worst month yet.
That’s if the vaccines are as effective against Supercovid. Most pundits are saying We should be fine, but enough scientists are saying Let’s wait and see, to slightly put me off my breakfast kipper
That was the follow up Q on R4 after the expert explained that one of the tests couldn't identify the new strain. The answer was that hopefully the vaccines will still work, but this is work in progress.
How come they have resumed on-site inspections? They don’t serve any purpose other than to keep a lot of failed teachers, civil servants and other useless twats in employment in cushy...wait a minute.
John Donne, writing about winter solstice. Something to cheer everyone up
A Nocturnal Upon St. Lucy’s Day, Being the Shortest Day
TIS the year's midnight, and it is the day's, Lucy's, who scarce seven hours herself unmasks; The sun is spent, and now his flasks Send forth light squibs, no constant rays; The world's whole sap is sunk; The general balm th' hydroptic earth hath drunk, Whither, as to the bed's-feet, life is shrunk, Dead and interr'd; yet all these seem to laugh, Compared with me, who am their epitaph.
Study me then, you who shall lovers be At the next world, that is, at the next spring; For I am every dead thing, In whom Love wrought new alchemy. For his art did express A quintessence even from nothingness, From dull privations, and lean emptiness; He ruin'd me, and I am re-begot Of absence, darkness, death—things which are not.
All others, from all things, draw all that's good, Life, soul, form, spirit, whence they being have; I, by Love's limbec, am the grave Of all, that's nothing. Oft a flood Have we two wept, and so Drown'd the whole world, us two; oft did we grow, To be two chaoses, when we did show Care to aught else; and often absences Withdrew our souls, and made us carcasses.
But I am by her death—which word wrongs her— Of the first nothing the elixir grown; Were I a man, that I were one I needs must know; I should prefer, If I were any beast, Some ends, some means ; yea plants, yea stones detest, And love; all, all some properties invest. If I an ordinary nothing were, As shadow, a light, and body must be here.
But I am none; nor will my sun renew. You lovers, for whose sake the lesser sun At this time to the Goat is run To fetch new lust, and give it you, Enjoy your summer all, Since she enjoys her long night's festival. Let me prepare towards her, and let me call This hour her vigil, and her eve, since this Both the year's and the day's deep midnight is.
I know I posted this yesterday, it for me it sums up Brexit and Boris.
“I’ll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a Brexit code, and you go through the years sticking to that, out-dated, mis-placed, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Tory government – a Tory government - stuck in Brussels, negotiating about fish, ignoring the pandemic at home and forced to cancel Christmas for its own people".
I know I posted this yesterday, it for me it sums up Brexit and Boris.
“I’ll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a Brexit code, and you go through the years sticking to that, out-dated, mis-placed, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Tory government – a Tory government - stuck in Brussels, negotiating about fish, ignoring the pandemic at home and forced to cancel Christmas for its own people".
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Given the COVID situation - and you clearly think the French action has fuck all to do with Brexit - it makes no difference.
I am shocked that a Remainer is coming to the conclusion that we need to agree a bad deal.
We do not need to agree any deal to request an extension to the transition.
I am shocked that a Brexit loon does not understand that.
We do not need to extend transition.
Sensible Brexiteers and Remainers should realise that.
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
It wouldn't be a question of doing any particular trick, just preventing mass international panic and all continental countries bricking up the channel tunnel.
The precautionary principle would still apply and see countries closing their borders.
But probably quite considerably less, if the UK government had mentioned from the start that our global genomic lead may have led us to pick up this change first.
Almost like a government that's isn't stopping to think about the importance of its international relationships and dependencies.
No I don't think so.
It would still be a case of this new scary mutant variant is definitely in the UK and unknown whether in their country.
Every politician can either close the border with the UK, even if it's too late, and still see it spread ... Or they can keep the border open, see it spread, then get blame from voters saying why did you not close the border?
The precautionary principle is to close the border either way. Nothing Boris did or did not say changes that.
As mentioned, I don't agree. The precautionary principle would still be in place, but if people thought this was partly because the UK was ahead rather than behind, that would partly offset it.
No because that would be (partially rightly) seen as self serving British spin while people here would be mocking Boris for saying the UK was world beating. Even though we are.
It would not change any facts on the ground. They know for a fact we have this.
The fact that Johnson has missed a rare genuine opportunity for one of his world-beating claims is part of the problem. The reaction would have come, but it wouldn't have been as fast or unqualified.
I see no reason besides blind optimism to believe that. What country would willingly expose themselves to a nation they KNOW has a deadlier variant when they don't know if they have it themselves or not?
It doesn't matter if they probably have it or not, they might not while we DEFINITELY do.
The fact that not all european countries have imposed air bans as yet should show it's more complicated than that, however much the first instinct might be to lock down. If you think your own sequencing capacity and scientific prestige might not be as good, you might contemplate other action first.
And broadcast your only reason you're not taking action is because you lack confidence in your own abilities? So aren't acting because you're ignorant?
Not all countries have implemented air bans but all our neighbours were first to act. And for very good reason.
They did the right thing. We should do the same in their shoes. We did with the Danes. They are not doing the wrong thing here they are doing the right thing.
It's not clear yet, and the government should have made that more clear.
They did.
It wouldn't change a thing.
You seem to be under some naive impression that shutting down the border right now is a bad thing. Or the wrong thing to do.
Shutting down the border now is eminently logical.
They didn't make anything clear on national and international questions at all. Having briefly mentioned Britain's genomic lead, in what must have sounded to the continent like the usual British boosterism, there wasn't the slightest reference to the possibility that this may have been a question of global-leading discovery rather than localised change. Under those circumstances, closing the border is obviously not only logical, but the only course of action. If you hear a different statement and take other courses of action, you may well qualify or moderate the first action.
This argument is getting rather circular, so it's best for the thread to move on.
In all circumstances it is the only course of action.
The expert on R4 explaining a factoid that cropped up on PB this Saturday, that the new virus strain cannot be identified by one of the tests being used - actually one of the two confirmatory tests done on each sample after the primary test, which for the new strain always comes back negative. While this isn’t affecting total case numbers identified, because of the other two tests, presumably the loss of one of the confirmatory tests makes the results a tad less reliable.
According to this Wikipedia article, NERVTAG considered the possibility of antigenic escape, ie it is novel enough that having old-style COVID doesn't confer immunity to the new variant. Which may be one reason it is spreading faster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VUI_–_202012/01?wprov=sfla1
In London, which some theories said previous exposure explained why it had been doing relatively well in the second wave. Or alternatively, lockdown/tier 4 seems to be having very little effect on citizen behaviour around here - those who want to go out and shop and socialise are managing to do it quite comfortably without serious impediment. There are enough "food" shops with substantial other sections and plenty of pubs serving takeaway beer in the immediate vicinity of common ground.
If it isn't the UK, my money would be on somewhere like California, where there's been a huge growth in cases. And you'd expect anything from there to arrive in London first.
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I oppose it.
I think ending transition during shutdown is perfect timing and we need to end the uncertainty over Brexit.
JFDI applies.
JFDI and let the h8trz h8t? Do please for the love of God try to sound less bloody adolescent about everything.
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
It wouldn't be a question of doing any particular trick, just preventing mass international panic and all continental countries bricking up the channel tunnel.
The precautionary principle would still apply and see countries closing their borders.
But probably quite considerably less, if the UK government had mentioned from the start that our global genomic lead may have led us to pick up this change first.
Almost like a government that's isn't stopping to think about the importance of its international relationships and dependencies.
No I don't think so.
It would still be a case of this new scary mutant variant is definitely in the UK and unknown whether in their country.
Every politician can either close the border with the UK, even if it's too late, and still see it spread ... Or they can keep the border open, see it spread, then get blame from voters saying why did you not close the border?
The precautionary principle is to close the border either way. Nothing Boris did or did not say changes that.
As mentioned, I don't agree. The precautionary principle would still be in place, but if people thought this was partly because the UK was ahead rather than behind, that would partly offset it.
No because that would be (partially rightly) seen as self serving British spin while people here would be mocking Boris for saying the UK was world beating. Even though we are.
It would not change any facts on the ground. They know for a fact we have this.
The fact that Johnson has missed a rare genuine opportunity for one of his world-beating claims is part of the problem. The reaction would have come, but it wouldn't have been as fast or unqualified.
I see no reason besides blind optimism to believe that. What country would willingly expose themselves to a nation they KNOW has a deadlier variant when they don't know if they have it themselves or not?
It doesn't matter if they probably have it or not, they might not while we DEFINITELY do.
The fact that not all european countries have imposed air bans as yet should show it's more complicated than that, however much the first instinct might be to lock down. If you think your own sequencing capacity and scientific prestige might not be as good, you might contemplate other action first.
And broadcast your only reason you're not taking action is because you lack confidence in your own abilities? So aren't acting because you're ignorant?
Not all countries have implemented air bans but all our neighbours were first to act. And for very good reason.
They did the right thing. We should do the same in their shoes. We did with the Danes. They are not doing the wrong thing here they are doing the right thing.
It's not clear yet, and the government should have made that more clear.
They did.
It wouldn't change a thing.
You seem to be under some naive impression that shutting down the border right now is a bad thing. Or the wrong thing to do.
Shutting down the border now is eminently logical.
They didn't make anything clear on national and international questions at all. Having briefly mentioned Britain's genomic lead, in what must have sounded to the continent like the usual British boosterism, there wasn't the slightest reference to the possibility that this may have been a question of global-leading discovery rather than localised change. Under those circumstances, closing the border is obviously not only logical, but the only course of action. If you hear a different statement and take other courses of action, you may well qualify or moderate the first action.
This argument is getting rather circular, so it's best for the thread to move on.
In all circumstances it is the only course of action.
Not at all agreed. It's the most logical immediate action, but certainly not the only action. However, we should allow the thread to move on.
I know I posted this yesterday, it for me it sums up Brexit and Boris.
“I’ll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a Brexit code, and you go through the years sticking to that, out-dated, mis-placed, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Tory government – a Tory government - stuck in Brussels, negotiating about fish, ignoring the pandemic at home and forced to cancel Christmas for its own people".
Just astonished at the cocktail of breathtaking incompetence and ideological blindness in this government and its supporters. The idea that dealing with world as you find it is a sign of weakness. The world is on fire. The last thing we need right now in this chaos is to open another front and add to the chaos.
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I oppose it.
I think ending transition during shutdown is perfect timing and we need to end the uncertainty over Brexit.
JFDI applies.
This is one area where we agree. No Deal came into effect a week ago. Industry can't "negotiate up to the last minute" as they have been saying for yonks dismissed by armchair experts like your good self as "special interest groups".
The 48 hour initial period announced by the French runs up until D-8. Considering that we have Christmas in there as well realistically there's only 6 or maybe 5 normal days left to be worried about. No deal becomes de jure instead of de facto at that point anyway.
So yes, No Deal is here. I got criticised yesterday for my use of the word "blockade". Currently the border is shut. When it reopens the sheer volume of vehicles sat in queues for customs checks means it will effectively be shut. There isn't any practical difference.
You cannot run a hard border and process 20k trucks a day. As we are about to find out. It wasn't "deal or no deal" that was the issue. It was our departure from the Customs Union which practically shuts our own border. Yay us!
Someone on the Brexit side was whining on about remainers gloating. We aren't - this is a national disaster. Pointing out that project fear was just reality isn't wanting this to happen - we've NOT wanted this to happen for a long time.
I must say my skiing holiday in the Alps next week is beginning to look a bit optimistic. And I’m not one to yield to negativity
I don`t think you are being negative, I think you are being realistic.
The first worry will be "will the plane depart" and your worries are going to expand from there. That`s just the reality of the situation. I don`t go away on holiday to be worried.
If you decide to bail look at t & c`s obvs - it may be best to wait until the airline cancels the flight?
A stupid point because saying our viruses are unique is just as exceptionalist as saying our ability to detect them is, and one of the other must be true.
Bozo can’t spin and bluff his way around Covid that’s why he’s been a complete failure . When the chips were down he went missing . Anyone who still seriously thinks he’s upto the job has obviously been on Mars for the last nine months .
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Joff mate it's already happened. Its no deal. Let them have their victory.
Then, in the new year, the supplicant UK can beg for a new deal that makes the border function again. Apparently you can't actually process 20k trucks a day through a hard border with an average 45 minute processing time - who knew?
Bozo can’t spin and bluff his way around Covid that’s why he’s been a complete failure . When the chips were down he went missing . Anyone who still seriously thinks he’s upto the job has obviously been on Mars for the last nine months .
I’d say heroin, rather than Mars. Unless it’s got something stronger than chocolate in it.
Oh well, at least we have made it to the Winter Solstice.
I have an astrological friend who predicted in 2019 that 2020 would see a terrible global crisis. She’s now saying the stars suggest 2021 will be WORSE
I must say my skiing holiday in the Alps next week is beginning to look a bit optimistic. And I’m not one to yield to negativity
I don`t think you are being negative, I think you are being realistic.
The first worry will be "will the plane depart" and your worries are going to expand from there. That`s just the reality of the situation. I don`t go away on holiday to be worried.
If you decide to bail look at t & c`s obvs - it may be best to wait until the airline cancels the flight?
Are you joking? Hard to tell. Because I certainly was. Anyone who thinks they’re going skiing in the Alps next week needs to be sectioned.
If this strain is prevalent, rather than just present, in places on the continent, we should know it by puzzlingly failed or failing lockdowns, we should know it by direct comparison with how it has spread, under lockdown, in Kent.
Are there any such outbreaks in Europe which for the bill??
On fish, the obvious compromise would be to keep matters as they are for now, but transfer enforcement from the EU member where the vessel is flagged to the UK.
That would mean the ordinary French fishing boats could continue as before, as could ours, and the Spanish trawlers that have been fishing illegally and with impunity for 25 years would be arrested, impounded, their crews imprisoned and most of the overfishing problem would disappear.
But the Spanish and Lithuanians would probably veto it.
I know I posted this yesterday, it for me it sums up Brexit and Boris.
“I’ll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a Brexit code, and you go through the years sticking to that, out-dated, mis-placed, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Tory government – a Tory government - stuck in Brussels, negotiating about fish, ignoring the pandemic at home and forced to cancel Christmas for its own people".
Very good, though you are trivialising access to fishing waters, which is a big issue, and "cancel Christmas"? Johnson has removed four days of relaxation but retained Christmas Day, so this is untrue.
By the way, I can`t believe the folk who`s main worry at the moment seems to be that they have ordered a big turkey when a little one would have sufficed - and it`s all Johnson`s fault. Seriously?
If this strain is prevalent, rather than just present, in places on the continent, we should know it by puzzlingly failed or failing lockdowns, we should know it by direct comparison with how it has spread, under lockdown, in Kent.
Are there any such outbreaks in Europe which for the bill??
I know I posted this yesterday, it for me it sums up Brexit and Boris.
“I’ll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a Brexit code, and you go through the years sticking to that, out-dated, mis-placed, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Tory government – a Tory government - stuck in Brussels, negotiating about fish, ignoring the pandemic at home and forced to cancel Christmas for its own people".
Very good, though you are trivialising access to fishing waters, which is a big issue, and "cancel Christmas"? Johnson has removed four days of relaxation but retained Christmas Day, so this is untrue.
By the way, I can`t believe the folk who`s main worry at the moment seems to be that they have ordered a big turkey when a little one would have sufficed - and it`s all Johnson`s fault. Seriously?
He is the biggest of turkeys, and he’s just been stuffed.
He should have stuck to the pork barrel he does so well...
I must say my skiing holiday in the Alps next week is beginning to look a bit optimistic. And I’m not one to yield to negativity
I don`t think you are being negative, I think you are being realistic.
The first worry will be "will the plane depart" and your worries are going to expand from there. That`s just the reality of the situation. I don`t go away on holiday to be worried.
If you decide to bail look at t & c`s obvs - it may be best to wait until the airline cancels the flight?
Are you joking? Hard to tell. Because I certainly was. Anyone who thinks they’re going skiing in the Alps next week needs to be sectioned.
The problem is, people going skiing really wouldn't surprise me!
I know I posted this yesterday, it for me it sums up Brexit and Boris.
“I’ll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a Brexit code, and you go through the years sticking to that, out-dated, mis-placed, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Tory government – a Tory government - stuck in Brussels, negotiating about fish, ignoring the pandemic at home and forced to cancel Christmas for its own people".
Very good, though you are trivialising access to fishing waters, which is a big issue, and "cancel Christmas"? Johnson has removed four days of relaxation but retained Christmas Day, so this is untrue.
By the way, I can`t believe the folk who`s main worry at the moment seems to be that they have ordered a big turkey when a little one would have sufficed - and it`s all Johnson`s fault. Seriously?
I just don’t understand why you have manage both at the same time. That’s a deliberate choice, An avoidable error. History is littered with fools that chose to open a second front or ploughed on with something despite the world having changed,
I am on the Suffolk coast. It is fittingly and unremittingly bleak. A howling winter gale with driving cold rain.
The midwinter “morning” is barely distinguishable from the night.
Somehow it is reassuring. It feels like the deep dark pit of the year. The lowest point in our fortunes.
And so it is. From here we head back to the sun. And warmth. And light. But it will not feel like it, for a long time. Its the same with the summer solstice, which seems to occur, emotionally, at the beginning of summer, even though darkness encroaches from June 21.
I must say my skiing holiday in the Alps next week is beginning to look a bit optimistic. And I’m not one to yield to negativity
I don`t think you are being negative, I think you are being realistic.
The first worry will be "will the plane depart" and your worries are going to expand from there. That`s just the reality of the situation. I don`t go away on holiday to be worried.
If you decide to bail look at t & c`s obvs - it may be best to wait until the airline cancels the flight?
Are you joking? Hard to tell. Because I certainly was. Anyone who thinks they’re going skiing in the Alps next week needs to be sectioned.
Wasn`t sure but I thought I`d try to be sympathetic and helpful anyway!
If this strain is prevalent, rather than just present, in places on the continent, we should know it by puzzlingly failed or failing lockdowns, we should know it by direct comparison with how it has spread, under lockdown, in Kent.
Are there any such outbreaks in Europe which for the bill??
UK lockdowns don't work because they aren't really lockdowns. Compare what we did in November (which was a hell of a lot less restrictive than March and far less complied with) with France where they were back to requiring papers, night-time curfews, the works.
As i said above - Tier 4 in London at the weekend was normal life for many people without being able to eat an evening meal in a restaurant.
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Given the COVID situation - and you clearly think the French action has fuck all to do with Brexit - it makes no difference.
I am shocked that a Remainer is coming to the conclusion that we need to agree a bad deal.
These are old battles. There is no deal. We don't need to worry about what we sign as there isn't one to sign. What is now absolutely clear is that the border arrangement doesn't work. Your "bad deal" or even a "good deal" will in all practical senses have the same impact as no deal - gridlock.
When negotiations resume it will be the UK asking for a new deal because we will want to find an arrangement that lets the border function again.
To everyone suggesting Bojo is not up to the job - and I agree his upbeat personality is a bad fit with Black Death - they also need to suggest their desired alternative.
Quite frankly, we aren’t blessed with gritty, ballsy, smart, capable, determined, inspiring and unflinching leaders.
The best I can come up with is Jeremy Hunt, which says it all.
Hunt would be several orders of magnitude better than Johnson. Has a leader ever been more found out by a crisis?
Though if he had not binned the grim pandemic planning report a couple of years ago to save spending a few pounds , we may have been much better prepared. Another useless arsehole.
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Given the COVID situation - and you clearly think the French action has fuck all to do with Brexit - it makes no difference.
I am shocked that a Remainer is coming to the conclusion that we need to agree a bad deal.
These are old battles. There is no deal. We don't need to worry about what we sign as there isn't one to sign. What is now absolutely clear is that the border arrangement doesn't work. Your "bad deal" or even a "good deal" will in all practical senses have the same impact as no deal - gridlock.
When negotiations resume it will be the UK asking for a new deal because we will want to find an arrangement that lets the border function again.
I must say my skiing holiday in the Alps next week is beginning to look a bit optimistic. And I’m not one to yield to negativity
I don`t think you are being negative, I think you are being realistic.
The first worry will be "will the plane depart" and your worries are going to expand from there. That`s just the reality of the situation. I don`t go away on holiday to be worried.
If you decide to bail look at t & c`s obvs - it may be best to wait until the airline cancels the flight?
Are you joking? Hard to tell. Because I certainly was. Anyone who thinks they’re going skiing in the Alps next week needs to be sectioned.
Wasn`t sure but I thought I`d try to be sympathetic and helpful anyway!
Fair enough! Then it was decent of you. But yes it was a dark joke.
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
The French are directly exposed to a large number of travellers arriving specifically from a Tier 4 area of the UK, Is any other country?
Given Heathrow is in Tier 4...
No virus has ever had the spread and recombination opportunity that LHR offers in the entire history of the world
If this strain is prevalent, rather than just present, in places on the continent, we should know it by puzzlingly failed or failing lockdowns, we should know it by direct comparison with how it has spread, under lockdown, in Kent.
Are there any such outbreaks in Europe which for the bill??
UK lockdowns don't work because they aren't really lockdowns. Compare what we did in November (which was a hell of a lot less restrictive than March and far less complied with) with France where they were back to requiring papers, night-time curfews, the works.
As i said above - Tier 4 in London at the weekend was normal life for many people without being able to eat an evening meal in a restaurant.
It's not that though. Lockdowns and restrictions are infinitely configurable in nature, but we had the same lockdown nationally and in most of the UK, including much of the South, cases were brought down considerably. You only needed to compare Kent within the UK to see that something different was at play, indeed I've been pointing this out for weeks.
I am on the Suffolk coast. It is fittingly and unremittingly bleak. A howling winter gale with driving cold rain.
The midwinter “morning” is barely distinguishable from the night.
Somehow it is reassuring. It feels like the deep dark pit of the year. The lowest point in our fortunes.
And so it is. From here we head back to the sun. And warmth. And light. But it will not feel like it, for a long time. Its the same with the summer solstice, which seems to occur, emotionally, at the beginning of summer, even though darkness encroaches from June 21.
You have a wonderfully poetic turn of phrase when describing a location. Have you ever considered becoming a travel writer?
To everyone suggesting Bojo is not up to the job - and I agree his upbeat personality is a bad fit with Black Death - they also need to suggest their desired alternative.
Quite frankly, we aren’t blessed with gritty, ballsy, smart, capable, determined, inspiring and unflinching leaders.
The best I can come up with is Jeremy Hunt, which says it all.
Perfectly fresh fruit is rare, so we'll just settle for the piece that is the most rotten and mouldy? It's a view, I suppose.
So who do you suggest? That’s my question. My best yet disappointing answer is Hunt
Theresa May has the experience to do the job and is available. She also appears to be less prone to panicking than many other UK politicians.
We now face the possibility of blockage to UK trade with Europe that could lead to food shortages, rationing, and economic meltdown. Did it occur to anyone in the government, scientists or ministers or advisors, that this could be the results of this weekend's scary announcements? The matter has been overdramatised, at a time when the increased transmissibility of the new variant has not been proven yet. The Johnson government seems to be disintegrating before our eyes.
Yes, it's hilarious that the usual suspects on here are using this event to yet again wet themselves with excitement over the EU socking it to the UK (they don't care why or how) when the UK has merely detected first the horse that has already bolted over Europe, and possibly wider still.
I know I posted this yesterday, it for me it sums up Brexit and Boris.
“I’ll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a Brexit code, and you go through the years sticking to that, out-dated, mis-placed, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Tory government – a Tory government - stuck in Brussels, negotiating about fish, ignoring the pandemic at home and forced to cancel Christmas for its own people".
Yes, it was a painfully dull post then. And it still is.
It's pathetic how some people want to make everything about Boris and Brexit.
In fact, it's worse than pathetic: it's a disease, a pathological condition. One worse that Superrona and longer lasting - with no hope of recovery.
You are infected with LongBrexit mutant strain 1.7.7.8.2. For you, there is no hope.
I am on the Suffolk coast. It is fittingly and unremittingly bleak. A howling winter gale with driving cold rain.
The midwinter “morning” is barely distinguishable from the night.
Somehow it is reassuring. It feels like the deep dark pit of the year. The lowest point in our fortunes.
And so it is. From here we head back to the sun. And warmth. And light. But it will not feel like it, for a long time. Its the same with the summer solstice, which seems to occur, emotionally, at the beginning of summer, even though darkness encroaches from June 21.
You have a wonderfully poetic turn of phrase when describing a location. Have you ever considered becoming a travel writer?
Most kind. I shall explore my options. Flint-mining by hand has not turned out to be as entertaining a career as I’d hoped.
I'm beginning to wonder whether the government should have thought a lot harder about its messaging with this.
You're not suggesting that they should have, erm, lied?
It's curious that the rest of the world was caught on the hop. You'd think they'd have been monitoring this sort of thing irrespective of UK Christmas plans. Presumably they all knew about this weeks ago, odd that it needed our scientists to be worried for them to also be worried. Almost as though they don't know what they are doing...
No, I'm certainly not suggesting they should have lied. If the UK is really so much more advanced and does have a track record at picking up other strains that may already be around the world, I am very much suggesting they should have thought about that in how they represented it, though.
Go on...
"The public will understand that because of sharply rising cases in some of areas of the country, we will be moving London and other areas into Tier 4. With the UK's global lead in genomic sequencing, our scientists have detected a new mutation of the virus, which may be linked to this changing pattern of cases. Because of the UK's headstart in this field, we have no information as yet as to how widely spread internationally this variant is."
I'm sure that would have done for trick.
To be honest, I'm actually delighted that the world has started banning travel - I want us to ban travel! It's just the French that have decided to use it as an excuse to be utterly cuntish.
It wouldn't be a question of doing any particular trick, just preventing mass international panic and all continental countries bricking up the channel tunnel.
The precautionary principle would still apply and see countries closing their borders.
But probably quite considerably less, if the UK government had mentioned from the start that our global genomic lead may have led us to pick up this change first.
Almost like a government that's isn't stopping to think about the importance of its international relationships and dependencies.
No I don't think so.
It would still be a case of this new scary mutant variant is definitely in the UK and unknown whether in their country.
Every politician can either close the border with the UK, even if it's too late, and still see it spread ... Or they can keep the border open, see it spread, then get blame from voters saying why did you not close the border?
The precautionary principle is to close the border either way. Nothing Boris did or did not say changes that.
As mentioned, I don't agree. The precautionary principle would still be in place, but if people thought this was partly because the UK was ahead rather than behind, that would partly offset it.
No because that would be (partially rightly) seen as self serving British spin while people here would be mocking Boris for saying the UK was world beating. Even though we are.
It would not change any facts on the ground. They know for a fact we have this.
English Covid 20, the improved world beating version
If this strain is prevalent, rather than just present, in places on the continent, we should know it by puzzlingly failed or failing lockdowns, we should know it by direct comparison with how it has spread, under lockdown, in Kent.
Are there any such outbreaks in Europe which for the bill??
UK lockdowns don't work because they aren't really lockdowns. Compare what we did in November (which was a hell of a lot less restrictive than March and far less complied with) with France where they were back to requiring papers, night-time curfews, the works.
As i said above - Tier 4 in London at the weekend was normal life for many people without being able to eat an evening meal in a restaurant.
It's not that though. Lockdowns and restrictions are infinitely configurable in nature, but we had the same lockdown nationally and in most of the UK, including much of the South, cases were brought down considerably. You only needed to compare Kent within the UK to see that something different was at play, indeed I've been pointing this out for weeks.
IIRC Kentish prisons had a particular problem during the lockdown, didn't they?
The one area over which the UK government does have control is the ability to request an emergency extension of the transition period. Given the current chaos and unpredictability, surely even the most ardent Brexiteer would support that. Inflicting more uncertainty on ourselves at this time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Given the COVID situation - and you clearly think the French action has fuck all to do with Brexit - it makes no difference.
I am shocked that a Remainer is coming to the conclusion that we need to agree a bad deal.
We do not need to agree any deal to request an extension to the transition.
I am shocked that a Brexit loon does not understand that.
It’s sensible in two ways. It relives immediate pressure, but in a fast changing situation we can hardly be sure what kind of a deal we ultimately will need. Wont happen though, because Brexit is a religion.
Anti-Brexit is also a religion. Just as fervent. In fact, counter-revolutionaries are often worse and more debauched in their methods, which presumably is why there was a chorus of silence on here last night when some were posing the question (even hypothetically) of France and other EU countries banning vaccine carrying flights to us.
I know I posted this yesterday, it for me it sums up Brexit and Boris.
“I’ll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a Brexit code, and you go through the years sticking to that, out-dated, mis-placed, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Tory government – a Tory government - stuck in Brussels, negotiating about fish, ignoring the pandemic at home and forced to cancel Christmas for its own people".
Yes, it was a painfully dull post then. And it still is.
It's pathetic how some people want to make everything about Boris and Brexit.
In fact, it's worse than pathetic: it's a disease, a pathological condition. One worse that Superrona and longer lasting - with no hope of recovery.
You are infected with LongBrexit mutant strain 1.7.7.8.2. For you, there is no hope.
Horses for courses. I thought it was a useful insight.
I am on the Suffolk coast. It is fittingly and unremittingly bleak. A howling winter gale with driving cold rain.
The midwinter “morning” is barely distinguishable from the night.
Somehow it is reassuring. It feels like the deep dark pit of the year. The lowest point in our fortunes.
And so it is. From here we head back to the sun. And warmth. And light. But it will not feel like it, for a long time. Its the same with the summer solstice, which seems to occur, emotionally, at the beginning of summer, even though darkness encroaches from June 21.
You have a wonderfully poetic turn of phrase when describing a location. Have you ever considered becoming a travel writer?
Comments
Not all countries have implemented air bans but all our neighbours were first to act. And for very good reason.
They did the right thing. We should do the same in their shoes. We did with the Danes. They are not doing the wrong thing here they are doing the right thing.
I have an astrological friend who predicted in 2019 that 2020 would see a terrible global crisis. She’s now saying the stars suggest 2021 will be WORSE
On that note, time for coffee
Boris hypes up the best and blames the rest when the best doesn’t happen.
I think ending transition during shutdown is perfect timing and we need to end the uncertainty over Brexit.
JFDI applies.
I am shocked that a Remainer is coming to the conclusion that we need to agree a bad deal.
It wouldn't change a thing.
You seem to be under some naive impression that shutting down the border right now is a bad thing. Or the wrong thing to do.
Shutting down the border now is eminently logical.
I am shocked that a Brexit loon does not understand that.
Exhibit A - a whole stack of comments from sensible PB'ers during the early part of last week
Exhibit B - what the clown chose to say at Wednesday's PMQs
https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1340814643955191808?s=19
https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/eu-corona-impfstoff-105.html
This argument is getting rather circular, so it's best for the thread to move on.
https://www.tes.com/news/no-apology-schools-told-ofsted-inspector-has-covid
How come they have resumed on-site inspections? They don’t serve any purpose other than to keep a lot of failed teachers, civil servants and other useless twats in employment in cushy...wait a minute.
https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1340926913758556161?s=20
https://twitter.com/JonHowarth/status/1340929837255548928?s=20
A Nocturnal Upon St. Lucy’s Day, Being the Shortest Day
TIS the year's midnight, and it is the day's,
Lucy's, who scarce seven hours herself unmasks;
The sun is spent, and now his flasks
Send forth light squibs, no constant rays;
The world's whole sap is sunk;
The general balm th' hydroptic earth hath drunk,
Whither, as to the bed's-feet, life is shrunk,
Dead and interr'd; yet all these seem to laugh,
Compared with me, who am their epitaph.
Study me then, you who shall lovers be
At the next world, that is, at the next spring;
For I am every dead thing,
In whom Love wrought new alchemy.
For his art did express
A quintessence even from nothingness,
From dull privations, and lean emptiness;
He ruin'd me, and I am re-begot
Of absence, darkness, death—things which are not.
All others, from all things, draw all that's good,
Life, soul, form, spirit, whence they being have;
I, by Love's limbec, am the grave
Of all, that's nothing. Oft a flood
Have we two wept, and so
Drown'd the whole world, us two; oft did we grow,
To be two chaoses, when we did show
Care to aught else; and often absences
Withdrew our souls, and made us carcasses.
But I am by her death—which word wrongs her—
Of the first nothing the elixir grown;
Were I a man, that I were one
I needs must know; I should prefer,
If I were any beast,
Some ends, some means ; yea plants, yea stones detest,
And love; all, all some properties invest.
If I an ordinary nothing were,
As shadow, a light, and body must be here.
But I am none; nor will my sun renew.
You lovers, for whose sake the lesser sun
At this time to the Goat is run
To fetch new lust, and give it you,
Enjoy your summer all,
Since she enjoys her long night's festival.
Let me prepare towards her, and let me call
This hour her vigil, and her eve, since this
Both the year's and the day's deep midnight is.
“I’ll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a Brexit code, and you go through the years sticking to that, out-dated, mis-placed, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Tory government – a Tory government - stuck in Brussels, negotiating about fish, ignoring the pandemic at home and forced to cancel Christmas for its own people".
Sensible Brexiteers and Remainers should realise that.
The 48 hour initial period announced by the French runs up until D-8. Considering that we have Christmas in there as well realistically there's only 6 or maybe 5 normal days left to be worried about. No deal becomes de jure instead of de facto at that point anyway.
So yes, No Deal is here. I got criticised yesterday for my use of the word "blockade". Currently the border is shut. When it reopens the sheer volume of vehicles sat in queues for customs checks means it will effectively be shut. There isn't any practical difference.
You cannot run a hard border and process 20k trucks a day. As we are about to find out. It wasn't "deal or no deal" that was the issue. It was our departure from the Customs Union which practically shuts our own border. Yay us!
Someone on the Brexit side was whining on about remainers gloating. We aren't - this is a national disaster. Pointing out that project fear was just reality isn't wanting this to happen - we've NOT wanted this to happen for a long time.
So be happy like Philip is - you won! Enjoy.
The first worry will be "will the plane depart" and your worries are going to expand from there. That`s just the reality of the situation. I don`t go away on holiday to be worried.
If you decide to bail look at t & c`s obvs - it may be best to wait until the airline cancels the flight?
Then, in the new year, the supplicant UK can beg for a new deal that makes the border function again. Apparently you can't actually process 20k trucks a day through a hard border with an average 45 minute processing time - who knew?
Are there any such outbreaks in Europe which for the bill??
That would mean the ordinary French fishing boats could continue as before, as could ours, and the Spanish trawlers that have been fishing illegally and with impunity for 25 years would be arrested, impounded, their crews imprisoned and most of the overfishing problem would disappear.
But the Spanish and Lithuanians would probably veto it.
By the way, I can`t believe the folk who`s main worry at the moment seems to be that they have ordered a big turkey when a little one would have sufficed - and it`s all Johnson`s fault. Seriously?
He should have stuck to the pork barrel he does so well...
The midwinter “morning” is barely distinguishable from the night.
Somehow it is reassuring. It feels like the deep dark pit of the year. The lowest point in our fortunes.
And so it is. From here we head back to the sun. And warmth. And light. But it will not feel like it, for a long time. Its the same with the summer solstice, which seems to occur, emotionally, at the beginning of summer, even though darkness encroaches from June 21.
As i said above - Tier 4 in London at the weekend was normal life for many people without being able to eat an evening meal in a restaurant.
When negotiations resume it will be the UK asking for a new deal because we will want to find an arrangement that lets the border function again.
(Over Johnson. obvs)
We now face the possibility of blockage to UK trade with Europe that could lead to food shortages, rationing, and economic meltdown. Did it occur to anyone in the government, scientists or ministers or advisors, that this could be the results of this weekend's scary announcements? The matter has been overdramatised, at a time when the increased transmissibility of the new variant has not been proven yet. The Johnson government seems to be disintegrating before our eyes.
Their comments won't age well.
It's pathetic how some people want to make everything about Boris and Brexit.
In fact, it's worse than pathetic: it's a disease, a pathological condition. One worse that Superrona and longer lasting - with no hope of recovery.
You are infected with LongBrexit mutant strain 1.7.7.8.2. For you, there is no hope.
Some soldiers are panic buying...
Sick. Really really sick.