For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?
Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc
Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant
That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.
'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story
Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'
Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius
I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?
There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?
You know what the meaning of the word net when applied to immigrants is, right?
Well no idea what you think it means. I use it as in they put in more to the treasury than they take out.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.
I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.
There's a slightly tiresome meme on Twitter that when English folk say that they want to move to an indy Scotland, cheery Scots folk say that they'll put the kettle on. Nevertheless let me know when the move's happening and I'll put the kettle on
Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc
Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant
That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.
'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story
Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'
Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius
I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?
There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?
How many immigrants do you think are net recipients? Any evidence?
Quite a lot. Most studies have put the total addition to gdp of immigration as about 2%, considering they are now numbered as a percentage as a lot more %age of the population (approx 5.5%) then then obviously there are many net recipients offsetting the net contributors
I will bet you £1,000 here and now that the contribution of immigrants to UK GDP is more than 2.5%.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.
I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.
I have already made that decision. Brexit is a disgusting project pandering to racism and xenophobia and has made me glad that I hold Irish citizenship.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?
This is your vision for Britain?
And commercialised and monetised the Atlantic slave trade...
Brexit is an emotional spasm inspired by a misreading of history and driven by massive lack of confidence.
It is the equivalent of man leaving a marriage for fear of commitment and a desire to revisit a rose tinted vision of bachelorhood that never was.
So Brexit really is personified by Boris Johnson.
The current debate is whether we’re heading for a dingy bedsit or a railway arch. The offer of a mates sofa disappeared with Trumps presidency.
I am going for the railway arch. After a few months enduring the cold and hunger, with nothing more than White Lightening cider for sustenance, I will want to repent my sins and rejoin society.
Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc
Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant
That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.
'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story
Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'
Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius
I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?
There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?
You know what the meaning of the word net when applied to immigrants is, right?
Well no idea what you think it means. I use it as in they put in more to the treasury than they take out.
So immigrants give more to the economy than they take out. Glad that we've settled that at least.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?
This is your vision for Britain?
And commercialised and monetised the Atlantic slave trade...
Be fair, that was a bit later than Good Queen Bess.
Brexit is an emotional spasm inspired by a misreading of history and driven by massive lack of confidence.
It is the equivalent of man leaving a marriage for fear of commitment and a desire to revisit a rose tinted vision of bachelorhood that never was.
So Brexit really is personified by Boris Johnson.
The current debate is whether we’re heading for a dingy bedsit or a railway arch. The offer of a mates sofa disappeared with Trumps presidency.
I am going for the railway arch. After a few months enduring the cold and hunger, with nothing more than White Lightening cider for sustenance, I will want to repent my sins and rejoin society.
The sofa would have smelt of wee, so silver linings and all that.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.
I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.
I have already made that decision. Brexit is a disgusting project pandering to racism and xenophobia and has made me glad that I hold Irish citizenship.
Unfortunately my Irish great-grandmother was not enough of a connection for me
FPT regarding the Belgrano. It had no sonar of its own but was escorted by the Bueno and Bouchard which both had, in theory, WW2 era VDS. In practice it probably didn't work and lacked suitably trained operators.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.
I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.
I have already made that decision. Brexit is a disgusting project pandering to racism and xenophobia and has made me glad that I hold Irish citizenship.
Unfortunately my Irish great-grandmother was not enough of a connection for me
My Irish grandfather had no birth registered in either England or Ireland as far as we can tell. His parents were illiterate Gaelic speakers. All his siblings insisted he was born in Co Mayo in 1908, but alas no proof...
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
Don't you muse wistfully of those halcyon days of warm beer, red telephone kiosks, half-timbered houses and cars...oh, and hanging and flogging?
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?
This is your vision for Britain?
And commercialised and monetised the Atlantic slave trade...
Be fair, that was a bit later than Good Queen Bess.
On the contrary, Good Queen Bess made the slave trader Hawkins Treasurer of the Royal Navy, and admiral, granting a coat of arms to him that featured an African slave.
Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc
Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant
That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.
'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story
Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'
Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius
I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?
There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?
How many immigrants do you think are net recipients? Any evidence?
Quite a lot. Most studies have put the total addition to gdp of immigration as about 2%, considering they are now numbered as a percentage as a lot more %age of the population (approx 5.5%) then then obviously there are many net recipients offsetting the net contributors
I will bet you £1,000 here and now that the contribution of immigrants to UK GDP is more than 2.5%.
No bet as havent looked it up just from memories of oecd studies quoting from a while ago and articles like this
"The £4.3bn contributed by EU migrants to the UK economy should be"
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Farage and his gang used to be so constructive and helpful when the EU had a bad day. Oh no, no gloating from the Leavers in the years before the referendum.
The majority of the electorate has been against Brexit for three years ; the author shouldn't confuse the shortcomings of the FPTP system, and Remainers' failure to get their act together as an alliance within it compared to the Brexit Party and Tories, with majority support. In the distant future there may or may not be majority support, rather than a majority now already actively urging the government on.
Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc
Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant
That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.
'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story
Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'
Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius
I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?
There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?
You know what the meaning of the word net when applied to immigrants is, right?
Well no idea what you think it means. I use it as in they put in more to the treasury than they take out.
So immigrants give more to the economy than they take out. Glad that we've settled that at least.
Once again some immigrants do some dont. I am happy to have the ones that do, not so happy to have the ones that are net takers. Is it really hard to understand that point.
The fact that on average they put in more is totally irrelevant, if we have 300k a year net coming in then better to have 300k that are all putting in more than 100k that are putting in more and 200k taking out more. Leaving them on average giving more.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.
I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.
There's a slightly tiresome meme on Twitter that when English folk say that they want to move to an indy Scotland, cheery Scots folk say that they'll put the kettle on. Nevertheless let me know when the move's happening and I'll put the kettle on
Haha thanks!
But I'm suggesting an independent Scotland should be more ambitious and seek a tax-paying citizen cohort from across the old UK.
I'll swear alleigance to the Scottish state, pay (possibly higher) Scottish taxes, support a Scottish welfare state, vote in Scottish elections, but live here in Dorset for the time being.
Seriously, Scotland should make a bid for this.A lot of high-earning progressives would opt in... and you'd probably end up with London ruled from Edinburgh!
PS Plan B would be to move to Scotland in 5-10 years.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?
This is your vision for Britain?
I do love how you and so many of your fellow travelers on the misery train are actually taking my comments about the era of codpieces and open sewerage so seriously that you're actually trying to make 'zingers' about it.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
Is Casino Royale on the board this evening?
Judging by his posts this morning, he is probably organising the Invasion of Europe to teach them a lesson, by jingo. I half expect a fleet of ships manned by the PB Tories with HYFUD directing operations from a bunker under Whitehall.....
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?
This is your vision for Britain?
I do love how you and so many of your fellow travelers on the misery train are actually taking my comments about the era of codpieces and open sewerage so seriously that you're actually trying to make 'zingers' about it.
Sorry to let you down there - no one takes anything you post 'seriously'.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.
I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.
There's a slightly tiresome meme on Twitter that when English folk say that they want to move to an indy Scotland, cheery Scots folk say that they'll put the kettle on. Nevertheless let me know when the move's happening and I'll put the kettle on
Haha thanks!
But I'm suggesting an independent Scotland should be more ambitious and seek a tax-paying citizen cohort from across the old UK.
I'll swear alleigance to the Scottish state, pay (possibly higher) Scottish taxes, support a Scottish welfare state, vote in Scottish elections, but live here in Dorset for the time being.
Seriously, Scotland should make a bid for this.A lot of high-earning progressives would opt in... and you'd probably end up with London ruled from Edinburgh!
PS Plan B would be to move to Scotland in 5-10 years.
As long as you go and live in scotland too. If you are paying tax in an independent scotland you can go use up their public services
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.
I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.
The UK will not be breaking up and if you hate your own country so much you may as well sod off and move to the EU now, bye!!
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?
This is your vision for Britain?
And commercialised and monetised the Atlantic slave trade...
Be fair, that was a bit later than Good Queen Bess.
On the contrary, Good Queen Bess made the slave trader Hawkins Treasurer of the Royal Navy, and admiral, granting a coat of arms to him that featured an African slave.
Good grief. I did not that the first Elizabethans were that quick off the mark. I mean, it took about 200 years before we realised that potatoes from the New World were edible. Prior to that they were used as hand warmers.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.
I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.
There's a slightly tiresome meme on Twitter that when English folk say that they want to move to an indy Scotland, cheery Scots folk say that they'll put the kettle on. Nevertheless let me know when the move's happening and I'll put the kettle on
Haha thanks!
But I'm suggesting an independent Scotland should be more ambitious and seek a tax-paying citizen cohort from across the old UK.
I'll swear alleigance to the Scottish state, pay (possibly higher) Scottish taxes, support a Scottish welfare state, vote in Scottish elections, but live here in Dorset for the time being.
Seriously, Scotland should make a bid for this.A lot of high-earning progressives would opt in... and you'd probably end up with London ruled from Edinburgh!
PS Plan B would be to move to Scotland in 5-10 years.
I am getting on a bit to emigrate now, but could well fancy closing the loop with my Scots ancestors by moving north of the border to Indy Scotland.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?
This is your vision for Britain?
I do love how you and so many of your fellow travelers on the misery train are actually taking my comments about the era of codpieces and open sewerage so seriously that you're actually trying to make 'zingers' about it.
So when you honestly felt excited about galvanising the country in a way not seen since the 1930s, we should take that as a joke?
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
What trading can we do now that we couldn't do when we were in the EU?
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?
This is your vision for Britain?
I do love how you and so many of your fellow travelers on the misery train are actually taking my comments about the era of codpieces and open sewerage so seriously that you're actually trying to make 'zingers' about it.
Sorry to let you down there - no one takes anything you post 'seriously'.
Since I am delighted not to be taken seriously, at a time when people are taking everything far too seriously, please don't apologise, I am not in the least bit let down, and you're welcome.
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
Don't you muse wistfully of those halcyon days of warm beer, red telephone kiosks, half-timbered houses and cars...oh, and hanging and flogging?
Red telephone kiosks in the era of Elizabeth I? Did you get taught history by @ydoethur or something?
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?
This is your vision for Britain?
I do love how you and so many of your fellow travelers on the misery train are actually taking my comments about the era of codpieces and open sewerage so seriously that you're actually trying to make 'zingers' about it.
I had forgotten about the open sewers. Will re-instituting them be a priority for your administration?
Codpieces, OTOH, do not feature as a needed fashion accessory for me.....
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?
This is your vision for Britain?
I do love how you and so many of your fellow travelers on the misery train are actually taking my comments about the era of codpieces and open sewerage so seriously that you're actually trying to make 'zingers' about it.
So when you honestly felt excited about galvanising the country in a way not seen since the 1930s, we should take that as a joke?
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.
I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.
I have already made that decision. Brexit is a disgusting project pandering to racism and xenophobia and has made me glad that I hold Irish citizenship.
Unfortunately my Irish great-grandmother was not enough of a connection for me
My Irish grandfather had no birth registered in either England or Ireland as far as we can tell. His parents were illiterate Gaelic speakers. All his siblings insisted he was born in Co Mayo in 1908, but alas no proof...
My great-grandmother's birth appears to have been registered because her mother was in service at Curraghmore House, Waterford.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
Is Casino Royale on the board this evening?
Judging by his posts this morning, he is probably organising the Invasion of Europe to teach them a lesson, by jingo. I half expect a fleet of ships manned by the PB Tories with HYFUD directing operations from a bunker under Whitehall.....
HYUFD is otherwise engaged as Obergruppenführer on the Tweed.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.
I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.
The UK will not be breaking up and if you hate your own country so much you may as well sod off and move to the EU now, bye!!
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
Don't you muse wistfully of those halcyon days of warm beer, red telephone kiosks, half-timbered houses and cars...oh, and hanging and flogging?
Red telephone kiosks in the era of Elizabeth I? Did you get taught history by @ydoethur or something?
I was replying to @Theuniondivvie commentary, not yours. Being Welsh I am related to the Tudors, so don't diss my kinfolk!
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.
I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.
The UK will not be breaking up and if you hate your own country so much you may as well sod off and move to the EU now, bye!!
Well we can't take our pensions and health benefits with us anymore, or we would, so you are lumbered with us!
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
In the very short term all that will happen is that the country will become even more polarised. It's the short-to-medium term that will decide things - between about six months from now and about three years , or something like that. How things are going then, and which way the undecideds swing, will determine our future course in the much longer term back towards Europe or further away, most likely.
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
The accident has had a long lasting effect on me in that I can no longer spell "kerb" correctly!
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
The same is true when flying - the aircraft goes where you look. If you want to look off somewhere else, check the aircraft is trimmed and take your hands off the controls...
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
That sounds like stall recovery... aim at the ground and speed up!
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less
Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc
Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant
That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.
'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story
Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'
Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius
I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?
There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?
How many immigrants do you think are net recipients? Any evidence?
Quite a lot. Most studies have put the total addition to gdp of immigration as about 2%, considering they are now numbered as a percentage as a lot more %age of the population (approx 5.5%) then then obviously there are many net recipients offsetting the net contributors
I will bet you £1,000 here and now that the contribution of immigrants to UK GDP is more than 2.5%.
No bet as havent looked it up just from memories of oecd studies quoting from a while ago and articles like this
"The £4.3bn contributed by EU migrants to the UK economy should be"
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
That sounds like stall recovery... aim at the ground and speed up!
btw earlier you talked about electing fascist governments, never wanted to however might well have voted for a party promising to zero vat on gas, electric, tampons etc and other necessities of life all verboten by the eu
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less
Perhaps the same is true of our geopolitical choices in the year 2020. What if what hurts less is fully committing to the EU?
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
The Capri in 1985 was pretty old technology by then anyway, so no such safety nonsense as ABS. When I learned to drive my dad had coached me in the art of cadence braking to control a skid. At the moment of first impact I was less than calmly standing on the brakes.
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less
Yes, I bounced down the road for some fifty yards, but nothing hit me. I got up, sat on the shoulder catching my breath for a bit then found a rock to bash the foot pedal straight to make the bike rideable. Then gingerly rode the 30 miles home.
I loved motorbiking, and the thrill of danger was undeniably part of it, though I came nowhere near the adrenaline seeking of @Dura_Ace. I only gave up when I became responsible for others and not just myself.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
Don't you muse wistfully of those halcyon days of warm beer, red telephone kiosks, half-timbered houses and cars...oh, and hanging and flogging?
Red telephone kiosks in the era of Elizabeth I? Did you get taught history by @ydoethur or something?
I was replying to @Theuniondivvie commentary, not yours. Being Welsh I am related to the Tudors, so don't diss my kinfolk!
I'm relieved to hear it - everyone knows the telephone kiosks in that era were green.
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
That sounds like stall recovery... aim at the ground and speed up!
btw earlier you talked about electing fascist governments, never wanted to however might well have voted for a party promising to zero vat on gas, electric, tampons etc and other necessities of life all verboten by the eu
I will happily pay tax on tampons if it avoids totalitarian govt.
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
That sounds like stall recovery... aim at the ground and speed up!
btw earlier you talked about electing fascist governments, never wanted to however might well have voted for a party promising to zero vat on gas, electric, tampons etc and other necessities of life all verboten by the eu
I will happily pay tax on tampons if it avoids totalitarian govt.
Lol.
Perhaps you could put that slogan on the side of a bus for EURef2!
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less
Perhaps the same is true of our geopolitical choices in the year 2020. What if what hurts less is fully committing to the EU?
That's a bit like saying what if the best cure for your headache is decapitation. Don't think you will get many takers for fully in even among remainers
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less
Yes, I bounced down the road for some fifty yards, but nothing hit me. I got up, sat on the shoulder catching my breath for a bit then found a rock to bash the foot pedal straight to make the bike rideable. Then gingerly rode the 30 miles home.
I loved motorbiking, and the thrill of danger was undeniably part of it, though I came nowhere near the adrenaline seeking of @Dura_Ace. I only gave up when I became responsible for others and not just myself.
I used to drive a bit like that until I shook off the hormones. But even then it struck me that whereas I frequently saw cars 10-20% above the limit, and others just inside it, I NEVER saw a motorbike on a motorway anywhere near the speed limit.
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less
Perhaps the same is true of our geopolitical choices in the year 2020. What if what hurts less is fully committing to the EU?
That's a bit like saying what if the best cure for your headache is decapitation. Don't think you will get many takers for fully in even among remainers
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
That sounds like stall recovery... aim at the ground and speed up!
btw earlier you talked about electing fascist governments, never wanted to however might well have voted for a party promising to zero vat on gas, electric, tampons etc and other necessities of life all verboten by the eu
I will happily pay tax on tampons if it avoids totalitarian govt.
Shrugs I have faith in the electorate not to vote for a totalitarian government. I have less faith in the eu not to morph into one due to the current laws they are talking about in respect to encryption
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.
When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.
I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.
The UK will not be breaking up and if you hate your own country so much you may as well sod off and move to the EU now, bye!!
Well we can't take our pensions and health benefits with us anymore, or we would, so you are lumbered with us!
Indeed. If they made it easy to take my pension pot with me I would happily F-off overseas and become a "leaver"
Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc
Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant
That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.
'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story
Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'
Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius
I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?
There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?
How many immigrants do you think are net recipients? Any evidence?
Quite a lot. Most studies have put the total addition to gdp of immigration as about 2%, considering they are now numbered as a percentage as a lot more %age of the population (approx 5.5%) then then obviously there are many net recipients offsetting the net contributors
I will bet you £1,000 here and now that the contribution of immigrants to UK GDP is more than 2.5%.
No bet as havent looked it up just from memories of oecd studies quoting from a while ago and articles like this
"The £4.3bn contributed by EU migrants to the UK economy should be"
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less
Perhaps the same is true of our geopolitical choices in the year 2020. What if what hurts less is fully committing to the EU?
That's a bit like saying what if the best cure for your headache is decapitation. Don't think you will get many takers for fully in even among remainers
You equate EU membership with death?
Sigh learn to analogy....I was commenting fully in is a drastic step and you won't get much support even from those that voted remain
I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser.
I have found the root cause of your problem.
Indeed but I was only 23, I did have a last of the line 280 (the one they call the Brooklands Capri) a couple of years later which handled as badly but at higher speeds. I had previously had an Alfa GTV6, which handled beautifully, if only one could engage a gear. It's all been grey porridge for me ever since.
I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.
When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true
Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...
Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less
Yes, I bounced down the road for some fifty yards, but nothing hit me. I got up, sat on the shoulder catching my breath for a bit then found a rock to bash the foot pedal straight to make the bike rideable. Then gingerly rode the 30 miles home.
I loved motorbiking, and the thrill of danger was undeniably part of it, though I came nowhere near the adrenaline seeking of @Dura_Ace. I only gave up when I became responsible for others and not just myself.
I used to drive a bit like that until I shook off the hormones. But even then it struck me that whereas I frequently saw cars 10-20% above the limit, and others just inside it, I NEVER saw a motorbike on a motorway anywhere near the speed limit.
I have been on the motorway on a motorcycle not breaking the speedlimit.....was towing a caravan mind you
"Europe has almost never operated a level playing field. The closest it ever came to it was when the bloc was just a handful of countries of broadly similar income and social security arrangements, and even back then, things were about as level as the Scottish highlands. “You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours” backroom deals and trade-offs have always offered a high degree of protection and competitive advantage for particular national interests. In any case, any pretence at free and fair competition between comparable economies disappeared the moment the EU opened its doors to Europe’s outer reaches. Where were the level playing field constraints on German car manufacturers shifting production to low cost Eastern Europe, or indeed cheap Eastern European labour overwhelming the more prosperous European north? Levelling down, rather than up, became the unintended consequence of the day.
As it is, the UK has some of the most taxing environmental, animal welfare and labour market standards in Europe, with one of the highest minimum wages and now by far the most ambitious target for reducing greenhouse gases.
Perhaps Brussels is right to fear the creation of a low cost, low tax sweatshop on its own doorstep, but if that’s the view, it is almost wholly unsupported by the evidence. There is no majority political constituency in Britain for that kind of future. If it ever came to pass, it would ironically be made more likely by a no-deal outcome, with Europe’s supposed tariff protections arbitraged away by UK currency adjustment and tax breaks to attract international investment. If there was ever a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, the EU is it."
I don't disagree with some of that, though I think he overstates the paradisical nature of Britain - we are IMO in the top 25% of Europe on animal welfare, and middling on labour market and environmental regulation compared with most of western Europe.But he's right that eastern Europe offers significantly lower pay.
It's not the point, though. My point is that sooner or later Britain OR the EU will decide to do something that is radically different from the other, either higher or lower standards - it is the point of Brexit that we reserve the right to do that, no? - and at that point the party with higher standards has no realistic option but to copy the change or erect a tariff barrier.
For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.
And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!
For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.
Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc
Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant
That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.
'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story
Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'
Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius
I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?
There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?
How many immigrants do you think are net recipients? Any evidence?
Quite a lot. Most studies have put the total addition to gdp of immigration as about 2%, considering they are now numbered as a percentage as a lot more %age of the population (approx 5.5%) then then obviously there are many net recipients offsetting the net contributors
I will bet you £1,000 here and now that the contribution of immigrants to UK GDP is more than 2.5%.
No bet as havent looked it up just from memories of oecd studies quoting from a while ago and articles like this
"The £4.3bn contributed by EU migrants to the UK economy should be"
Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc
Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant
That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.
'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story
Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'
Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius
I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?
There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?
How many immigrants do you think are net recipients? Any evidence?
Quite a lot. Most studies have put the total addition to gdp of immigration as about 2%, considering they are now numbered as a percentage as a lot more %age of the population (approx 5.5%) then then obviously there are many net recipients offsetting the net contributors
I will bet you £1,000 here and now that the contribution of immigrants to UK GDP is more than 2.5%.
No bet as havent looked it up just from memories of oecd studies quoting from a while ago and articles like this
"The £4.3bn contributed by EU migrants to the UK economy should be"
"Europe has almost never operated a level playing field. The closest it ever came to it was when the bloc was just a handful of countries of broadly similar income and social security arrangements, and even back then, things were about as level as the Scottish highlands. “You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours” backroom deals and trade-offs have always offered a high degree of protection and competitive advantage for particular national interests. In any case, any pretence at free and fair competition between comparable economies disappeared the moment the EU opened its doors to Europe’s outer reaches. Where were the level playing field constraints on German car manufacturers shifting production to low cost Eastern Europe, or indeed cheap Eastern European labour overwhelming the more prosperous European north? Levelling down, rather than up, became the unintended consequence of the day.
As it is, the UK has some of the most taxing environmental, animal welfare and labour market standards in Europe, with one of the highest minimum wages and now by far the most ambitious target for reducing greenhouse gases.
Perhaps Brussels is right to fear the creation of a low cost, low tax sweatshop on its own doorstep, but if that’s the view, it is almost wholly unsupported by the evidence. There is no majority political constituency in Britain for that kind of future. If it ever came to pass, it would ironically be made more likely by a no-deal outcome, with Europe’s supposed tariff protections arbitraged away by UK currency adjustment and tax breaks to attract international investment. If there was ever a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, the EU is it."
I don't disagree with some of that, though I think he overstates the paradisical nature of Britain - we are IMO in the top 25% of Europe on animal welfare, and middling on labour market and environmental regulation compared with most of western Europe.But he's right that eastern Europe offers significantly lower pay.
It's not the point, though. My point is that sooner or later Britain OR the EU will decide to do something that is radically different from the other, either higher or lower standards - it is the point of Brexit that we reserve the right to do that, no? - and at that point the party with higher standards has no realistic option but to copy the change or erect a tariff barrier.
He mentions in the article that it's "almost wholly unsupported by the evidence", oddly, and confuses there not necessarily being any big or a priori constituency for Singapore-on-Thames among the general public, with there being a big constituency for it among leading Brexiters. If you've watched for years from across the channel scores of leading Brexiters loudly, proudlly and openly advocating for a low-regulation, footloose future, then that's what you'll act on. Sometimes the Tory-leaning press seem to think no-one on the continent understands or reads English ;.)
"Europe has almost never operated a level playing field. The closest it ever came to it was when the bloc was just a handful of countries of broadly similar income and social security arrangements, and even back then, things were about as level as the Scottish highlands. “You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours” backroom deals and trade-offs have always offered a high degree of protection and competitive advantage for particular national interests. In any case, any pretence at free and fair competition between comparable economies disappeared the moment the EU opened its doors to Europe’s outer reaches. Where were the level playing field constraints on German car manufacturers shifting production to low cost Eastern Europe, or indeed cheap Eastern European labour overwhelming the more prosperous European north? Levelling down, rather than up, became the unintended consequence of the day.
As it is, the UK has some of the most taxing environmental, animal welfare and labour market standards in Europe, with one of the highest minimum wages and now by far the most ambitious target for reducing greenhouse gases.
Perhaps Brussels is right to fear the creation of a low cost, low tax sweatshop on its own doorstep, but if that’s the view, it is almost wholly unsupported by the evidence. There is no majority political constituency in Britain for that kind of future. If it ever came to pass, it would ironically be made more likely by a no-deal outcome, with Europe’s supposed tariff protections arbitraged away by UK currency adjustment and tax breaks to attract international investment. If there was ever a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, the EU is it."
I don't disagree with some of that, though I think he overstates the paradisical nature of Britain - we are IMO in the top 25% of Europe on animal welfare, and middling on labour market and environmental regulation compared with most of western Europe.But he's right that eastern Europe offers significantly lower pay.
It's not the point, though. My point is that sooner or later Britain OR the EU will decide to do something that is radically different from the other, either higher or lower standards - it is the point of Brexit that we reserve the right to do that, no? - and at that point the party with higher standards has no realistic option but to copy the change or erect a tariff barrier.
He mentions in the article that it's "almost wholly unsupported by the evidence", oddly, and confuses there not necessarily being any big or a priori constituency for Singapore-on-Thames among the general public, with there being a big constituency for it among leading Brexiters. If you've watched for years from across the channel scores of leading Brexiters loudly, proudlly and openly advocating for a low-regulation, footloose future, then that's what you'll act on. Sometimes the Tory-leaning press seem to think no-one on the continent understands or reads English ;.)
Yes, it is never Singapore on Trent, or Singapore on Tees is it?
I think that is Brexit's fatal flaw. The plutocracy who control Brexit want deregulation and capitalism red tooth and claw*, but the voters in the Red Wall and Saxon Shore that voted for Brexit want British jobs protected from foreigners. It is a highly unstable combination.
Ironically, it is the dynamic industries of Romania that will cope best with Brexit, while Leaverstan continues its decline.
*Though happy to be bailed out by the tax payer when they get over exposed!
"Europe has almost never operated a level playing field. The closest it ever came to it was when the bloc was just a handful of countries of broadly similar income and social security arrangements, and even back then, things were about as level as the Scottish highlands. “You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours” backroom deals and trade-offs have always offered a high degree of protection and competitive advantage for particular national interests. In any case, any pretence at free and fair competition between comparable economies disappeared the moment the EU opened its doors to Europe’s outer reaches. Where were the level playing field constraints on German car manufacturers shifting production to low cost Eastern Europe, or indeed cheap Eastern European labour overwhelming the more prosperous European north? Levelling down, rather than up, became the unintended consequence of the day.
As it is, the UK has some of the most taxing environmental, animal welfare and labour market standards in Europe, with one of the highest minimum wages and now by far the most ambitious target for reducing greenhouse gases.
Perhaps Brussels is right to fear the creation of a low cost, low tax sweatshop on its own doorstep, but if that’s the view, it is almost wholly unsupported by the evidence. There is no majority political constituency in Britain for that kind of future. If it ever came to pass, it would ironically be made more likely by a no-deal outcome, with Europe’s supposed tariff protections arbitraged away by UK currency adjustment and tax breaks to attract international investment. If there was ever a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, the EU is it."
I don't disagree with some of that, though I think he overstates the paradisical nature of Britain - we are IMO in the top 25% of Europe on animal welfare, and middling on labour market and environmental regulation compared with most of western Europe.But he's right that eastern Europe offers significantly lower pay.
It's not the point, though. My point is that sooner or later Britain OR the EU will decide to do something that is radically different from the other, either higher or lower standards - it is the point of Brexit that we reserve the right to do that, no? - and at that point the party with higher standards has no realistic option but to copy the change or erect a tariff barrier.
I think your point is perfectly valid and I think that change will come sooner rather than later. The EU is quite serious with its Green New Deal, and a lot of pieces will be moving in the coming years. The next German government, a year from now, will presumably push increasingly harder in that direction. I don't think it was a random coincidence that Mr Johnson has recently announced ambitions which are compatible with that kind of project, but people are questioning the sincerity and reliability of such statements. There will be an abundance of questions around state aid and regulatory interference, a lot of forks in the road where the political forces that carried Johnson into power will want to take the other path, regardless of his own personal views.
If the UK was still an EU member and say another country decided to leave would the government be supporting the current EU stance?
You bet they would. So the constant whining and playing the victim by some Leavers is tiresome. No one forced the UK to leave and to be blunt all this guff about treating the UK as a sovereign equal ignores the reality that a block of 450 million people and 27 countries can afford to dictate terms .
Do people seriously think the USA treats Canada as a sovereign equal in trade terms . You can respect another countries sovereignty, doesn’t mean you’re not going to use your larger economy to get a better deal .
If the UK was still an EU member and say another country decided to leave would the government be supporting the current EU stance?
You bet they would. So the constant whining and playing the victim by some Leavers is tiresome. No one forced the UK to leave and to be blunt all this guff about treating the UK as a sovereign equal ignores the reality that a block of 450 million people and 27 countries can afford to dictate terms .
Do people seriously think the USA treats Canada as a sovereign equal in trade terms . You can respect another countries sovereignty, doesn’t mean you’re not going to use your larger economy to get a better deal .
Leavers need a reality check !
We all know this is about politics and not economics. If it was purely economics the deal would have been done several years ago.
That highlights why the UK has always been an uncomfortable member, as we as a nation don't tend to vote for parties who propose the european social model, so always at odds with these ideas that the leading lights in the EU hold so dear and want to advance / see as the solution to many problems.
Isn't there a bit of a logic fail here? If there is a deal, it's very likely we'll stay in reasonably close alignment for the foreseeable. No deal, all bets are off.
That highlights why the UK has always been an uncomfortable member, as we as a nation don't tend to vote for parties who propose the european social model, so always at odds with these ideas that the leading lights in the EU hold so dear and want to advance / see as the solution to many problems.
Yes, can you imagine Brits voting for things like universal healthcare?
That highlights why the UK has always been an uncomfortable member, as we as a nation don't tend to vote for parties who propose the european social model, so always at odds with these ideas that the leading lights in the EU hold so dear and want to advance / see as the solution to many problems.
Yes, can you imagine Brits voting for things like universal healthcare?
That highlights why the UK has always been an uncomfortable member, as we as a nation don't tend to vote for parties who propose the european social model, so always at odds with these ideas that the leading lights in the EU hold so dear and want to advance / see as the solution to many problems.
Tony Blair won 3 General Election landslides with that model.
But the idea that Britons vote because of their policy on the EU is risible. Not until Brexit emerged from its chthonian shadows in the last handful of years did it ever raise its head as an issue of importance to the majority of British voters.
It was an issue that vexed ideologues not the British public.
Comments
This is your vision for Britain?
In any event: BZ CONQUEROR 💀
His parents were illiterate Gaelic speakers. All his siblings insisted he was born in Co Mayo in 1908, but alas no proof...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hawkins_(naval_commander)
"The £4.3bn contributed by EU migrants to the UK economy should be"
source https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/15/eu-migrants-43bn-contribution-to-uk-should-be-spent-on-poor
now I assume thats meant to be 43 billion as per the headlined but even then 43 billion / 2 trillion (uk gdp) is still not a huge percentage
The fact that on average they put in more is totally irrelevant, if we have 300k a year net coming in then better to have 300k that are all putting in more than 100k that are putting in more and 200k taking out more. Leaving them on average giving more.
This is no time for rationality and clear thinking, by jingo!
But I'm suggesting an independent Scotland should be more ambitious and seek a tax-paying citizen cohort from across the old UK.
I'll swear alleigance to the Scottish state, pay (possibly higher) Scottish taxes, support a Scottish welfare state, vote in Scottish elections, but live here in Dorset for the time being.
Seriously, Scotland should make a bid for this.A lot of high-earning progressives would opt in... and you'd probably end up with London ruled from Edinburgh!
PS Plan B would be to move to Scotland in 5-10 years.
In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.
Codpieces, OTOH, do not feature as a needed fashion accessory for me.....
But then it's the Graun, so the number is probably imaginary anyway.
I loved motorbiking, and the thrill of danger was undeniably part of it, though I came nowhere near the adrenaline seeking of @Dura_Ace. I only gave up when I became responsible for others and not just myself.
Perhaps you could put that slogan on the side of a bus for EURef2!
It's not the point, though. My point is that sooner or later Britain OR the EU will decide to do something that is radically different from the other, either higher or lower standards - it is the point of Brexit that we reserve the right to do that, no? - and at that point the party with higher standards has no realistic option but to copy the change or erect a tariff barrier.
I was just being necessarily contemptuous of the Guardian, as too many years reading / factchecking of it has trained me to be.
;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTT_Turbine_Superbike
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55269649
I think that is Brexit's fatal flaw. The plutocracy who control Brexit want deregulation and capitalism red tooth and claw*, but the voters in the Red Wall and Saxon Shore that voted for Brexit want British jobs protected from foreigners. It is a highly unstable combination.
Ironically, it is the dynamic industries of Romania that will cope best with Brexit, while Leaverstan continues its decline.
*Though happy to be bailed out by the tax payer when they get over exposed!
The EU is quite serious with its Green New Deal, and a lot of pieces will be moving in the coming years. The next German government, a year from now, will presumably push increasingly harder in that direction.
I don't think it was a random coincidence that Mr Johnson has recently announced ambitions which are compatible with that kind of project, but people are questioning the sincerity and reliability of such statements. There will be an abundance of questions around state aid and regulatory interference, a lot of forks in the road where the political forces that carried Johnson into power will want to take the other path, regardless of his own personal views.
https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1337205059927625729?s=20
You bet they would. So the constant whining and playing the victim by some Leavers is tiresome. No one forced the UK to leave and to be blunt all this guff about treating the UK as a sovereign equal ignores the reality that a block of 450 million people and 27 countries can afford to dictate terms .
Do people seriously think the USA treats Canada as a sovereign equal in trade terms . You can respect another countries sovereignty, doesn’t mean you’re not going to use your larger economy to get a better deal .
Leavers need a reality check !
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/12/10/russia-records-almost-50k-excess-deaths-in-october-deadliest-month-yet-a72256
Of course, you probably should add South Los Angeles (or Orange County as it's known) to the numbers.
https://twitter.com/yicaichina/status/1337250170648596480?s=21
But the idea that Britons vote because of their policy on the EU is risible. Not until Brexit emerged from its chthonian shadows in the last handful of years did it ever raise its head as an issue of importance to the majority of British voters.
It was an issue that vexed ideologues not the British public.